0:00

This is Alec Baldwin, and you were listening

0:02

to Here's the Thing from iHeart

0:05

Radio. It's officially summer,

0:07

and that means it's time for our tradition

0:09

at Here's the Thing, where our staff

0:12

shares their favorite episodes in our

0:14

Summer Staff series. Next

0:16

up is our engineer Frank Imperial.

0:21

Thanks Alec. When trying to choose

0:23

one of my favorite episodes from the archives,

0:26

it didn't take long to land on Mick Fleetwood,

0:29

the drummer of Fleetwood Mac. It's one

0:31

of the most popular episodes in our history. With

0:33

good reason. Here's Alex's twenty

0:35

twenty one conversation with Mick Fleetwood.

0:39

You say we want agree?

0:44

That is, of course Dreams by

0:46

Fleetwood Mac. Thanks to a

0:48

TikTok of some guy on a skateboard

0:51

who goes by the name Dogface lip

0:53

syncing to this song and his

0:56

seventy two million views, Fleetwood

0:59

Mac's album Rumors broke through

1:01

Rolling Stone's top one hundred list again

1:04

last year, more than forty years

1:06

after its release. My

1:09

guest today is Mick Fleetwood, a

1:11

founding member of Fleetwood Mac. Fleetwood

1:14

Mac existed for nearly a decade before

1:17

the lineup. We think of today with Mick

1:19

Fleetwood, John mcvee, Lindsey

1:21

Buckingham, Christine McVie and

1:23

Stevie Nicks. But when Fleetwood

1:26

Mac formed in London in the late nineteen

1:28

sixties, it was Peter Green's idea.

1:32

Well, I would be remiss. Peter

1:34

Green start at Fleetwood Mac, the original

1:36

guitar player. I was at

1:39

his right hand side, John

1:41

McVie. All of us have played in the band called John

1:43

Male's Blues Breakers, Eric

1:46

McK taylor, Peter Green. And

1:48

I'm saying that because they would represent

1:51

great guitar players that came out of that band

1:53

that have more than made their mark in

1:56

my world. And so Peter asked

1:58

me to play drums. Already had played with them

2:01

in a funny band with Rod Stewart for

2:03

a short while, so we won't go into

2:05

that. So it was really a

2:07

team of people that Peter

2:10

John McVie especially came

2:13

out of a pedigree which was absolute

2:15

devotion to an art form, the

2:18

blues. And really all

2:20

our heroes were American blues artists.

2:22

And you are well aware I can

2:24

tell about the irony of a

2:27

bunch of funny little white kids in

2:29

England really preserving

2:31

an art form that had long since been

2:34

you know, I won't use the

2:36

bad word, but you know, pooped on by

2:38

the American sort of glossing

2:41

over of something that was so evident.

2:43

So we were all from that

2:46

framework, and when we formed Fleetwood

2:49

Mac, it was all about our lovely,

2:52

semi innocent way of

2:54

emulating our heroes. And

2:56

if you listen to the first few

2:59

albums that we before Peter especially

3:01

started really writing, like when you

3:03

look at early Rolling Stones, it's Bo Diddley

3:06

and Chuck Berry and with anyone,

3:08

you see the development into self

3:10

expression, and that's

3:12

what transpired afterward. But the

3:14

original band was all about that and

3:17

a little team of people

3:19

sharing something and having

3:21

a lot of fun with it, you know, creatively

3:24

that turned into something a little

3:26

bit more than we ever could

3:28

have possibly have imagined.

3:30

The year that you formed the band with Green,

3:33

what year was that?

3:34

Nineteen sixty seven Windsor Jazz

3:36

Festival, and

3:39

the band was called Fleetwood Mac by Peter

3:41

Green, who could have very easily become the

3:44

Jeff Beck or the Jimmy Page

3:46

or the Eric Clapton gunslinger

3:48

guitar player. That's a

3:50

whole nother story, is a

3:53

lovely story, and an attribute to Peter's

3:55

generosity. We played the Windsor

3:57

Jazz Festival intended

4:00

as you can tell, with the name of Fleetwood Mac

4:02

the name was my name and John

4:05

McVie, which Peter chose, and

4:07

John was still playing in John Mayle's

4:09

Blues Breakers on the same show. Watched

4:12

the band he's supposed to be in from

4:15

from the side of the stage, and

4:18

about three months later he joined. He's a Scotsman,

4:21

so he's very thrifty with whatever

4:23

amount of money he does have. So

4:26

when we had enough gigs, he said, I'm ready

4:28

to join, which.

4:29

Was when you've made it worth my while.

4:31

Yeah, it worth my way.

4:33

I know there'll be no net loss in my income.

4:35

I join you. I'll meet you there at the club.

4:38

Yeah. And that's what happened.

4:40

And when you say that Green could

4:42

have been in this pantheon of great guitar players,

4:45

was this something he didn't want, that he did not want that

4:47

level of fame and that level of attention.

4:49

No, it was very evident. And

4:52

the end story, which of course went into

4:55

a very changed person. He was my

4:57

dearest of dearest of friends and

5:00

my mentor. You know, he gave

5:02

me so much encouragement as a player

5:05

and super fun person, but unbelievably

5:08

deep down, way more sensitive

5:10

than a bunch of chaps, including himself,

5:13

had ever realized. And he eventually

5:15

became sick and so came to a sort

5:18

of journey that was for

5:20

a while was a living tragedy

5:22

for me selfishly,

5:25

but then you learned to accept him

5:27

as he turned out. But back then everything

5:30

he did was about being

5:32

just really generous. And

5:35

I read an article after you

5:38

know, you think, well, what was the

5:40

real story? And for instance

5:42

would be that someone

5:44

asked him why was the bank or fleet with Mac

5:47

and he said, well, I

5:49

figured at that point i'd broken up with my lovely

5:52

girlfriend Jenny, who I later married,

5:55

and I had played with Peter,

5:57

and he had his eyes on another drummer as

5:59

a turned out, and he said, why

6:02

did you pick Mick? And of course my

6:05

little less than self would

6:07

have thought, well, maybe you thought I was a good drummer,

6:10

you know. And

6:12

what it was, he said, I wanted Mick

6:14

to play the drums cause I got so fed up with seeing

6:16

him so sad that I thought it would

6:18

give him something to do. And I thought

6:20

that was the greatest thing that you could ever

6:22

hear from a lovely friend, and

6:24

that really sums it up about

6:27

how it was not about him, and

6:29

he created a platform which

6:31

served me.

6:32

Well.

6:32

My father was an Air Force

6:34

chap so the word to serve,

6:37

to serve, well, that's what

6:39

I think I learned to do with all

6:42

of how the madness of this band

6:45

and the incarnates of just

6:47

are you kidding me that if you wrote this down,

6:49

you say, it's not possible this

6:51

bunch could possibly have survived

6:54

with all of the ups and downs and character

6:56

changes and changing the script

6:58

as you go along, and yet there's still

7:01

a story. Peter started that and handed

7:03

that to me. I think when he welcomed

7:06

everyone, including me, Danny

7:09

Kerwin who joined the original band,

7:11

Jeremy Spencer, they were all there so

7:14

that Peter did not want to

7:17

be king Tut in

7:19

the front there taking all the limelight,

7:21

and I think it was way more meaningful

7:24

in sense of where he came from.

7:26

It's just he wanted to be in a band, and

7:29

he created that band and made sure

7:31

the band was not called Peter

7:33

Greens anything, because he could

7:35

of very easily, and I always thank

7:38

him for that. The name Fleetwood Mac he

7:40

was asked and he said, well, I always

7:42

thought that I would probably move on, which

7:44

he did under very strange circumstances,

7:48

unfortunately for us. And

7:50

he said I wanted Mick and John to

7:53

have something. And I saw

7:55

and heard this interview years

7:58

and years and years and years later, like

8:00

finding out a family relative will

8:02

tell you what the real

8:05

story was, and sometimes

8:07

it's mind blowing and sometimes

8:09

it's hugely moving and

8:11

gratifying to hear. And that was one of them.

8:13

You didn't start drumming till you were thirteen, correct.

8:16

Officially, but yeah, I would say I started

8:18

hitting furniture when I was about eight.

8:22

What changed when you were thirteen that you were like, I

8:24

want a drum now? On a serious level, what changed?

8:26

Oh?

8:26

I would think that first of all,

8:29

being completely on some shape

8:31

or form, completely dyslexic,

8:34

and had not one iota

8:36

of any academic prowess

8:38

whatsoever at school. So there

8:41

I was struggling with

8:43

great parents. So I never felt threatened

8:46

or less than that. I couldn't. I still don't

8:48

know my alphabet or I mean, if

8:50

my whole family was lined up, God forbid

8:52

and said.

8:53

You don't have to.

8:54

Yeah, well I know, but

8:56

a lot of people say you're kidding me.

8:58

It's a lot of people say about what

9:00

I do when I play drums. I said, actually, I

9:03

sort of really don't know what I'm doing, to

9:05

tell you the real truth, and they

9:07

go, well, it's not. Then they start arguing with you,

9:09

go, how can you do that? You're full of shit?

9:12

You know, you know? I said, no, no, it

9:14

just comes out. I have no idea, so

9:16

I blundered into it. But I would think

9:19

that the love and the one thing

9:22

that I could grab onto was

9:24

the fact that I for some reason, I used

9:26

to play tapping on furniture, which

9:28

I mentioned to back in Norway when

9:30

I was much younger and we'd traveled

9:32

to Egypt. So I remember these leather little

9:35

funny we call them tufto's or something,

9:38

things stuffed with newspaper that

9:40

sound really cool their

9:42

leather. They're the sort of Ottoman

9:45

things. And I Mum would

9:47

listen to the home service and do the cleaning

9:49

and have a Dubonne and have a one

9:52

cigarette of the day. This is when

9:54

I was probably about six or

9:56

seven in Norway, and I

9:58

remember listening to the radio and

10:01

tapping on I don't know

10:03

why on furniture, but Daddy used

10:05

to tap on coins and

10:07

do military things in his pocket,

10:09

and he would play bottles with

10:12

water in them at parties. So I vaguely

10:14

remember that. I don't think that's why I did it,

10:17

but I think my quantum leap was

10:19

a blessing and it was like a divine

10:21

intervention of sorts that the

10:23

one thing I loved doing. I

10:26

had this obsession with collecting drum

10:28

catalogs and fantasies of gold

10:30

and sparkling instruments

10:33

that you were in my dream. So at boarding

10:35

school the last thing I did, I had this whole package

10:39

filled with brushures that opened

10:41

one to the other, and I think I

10:43

saw my way out. And when Dad said

10:46

do you want to go to college, and he didn't

10:48

have any money, but he was obviously

10:50

making it available for me, and

10:52

with tears in our eyes, and I said, Daddy, I

10:55

want to go to London and play drums. And

10:58

by that time I had had my

11:00

little drum kit, almost a toy drum

11:02

kit, in the house. And

11:05

I think it was my learning disability

11:07

that drove me. By some

11:10

happen sence, both my sisters went into

11:12

the arts. One was a very fine actress, Susan

11:15

with the Royal Shakespeare Company, and my

11:17

elder sister was an art

11:19

student at the Polytechnic, so we were all

11:22

completely academically useless.

11:25

So I had the blessing that Mom and

11:27

dad said, then, my god, it's

11:29

probably the only one thing he really thinks

11:31

he can do. And that was he

11:33

encouraged you absolutely just

11:36

I had complete and utter, not

11:39

one iota of any cynicism whatsoever,

11:42

and they sent me off with a drum kit to

11:44

London wrapped in a blanket. My father wrote

11:46

a poem about.

11:47

It, mckfleetwood.

11:51

If you love conversations with iconic

11:53

musicians who also happen to be members

11:55

of long lasting bands, be sure

11:58

to check out my conversation with The Who's

12:00

legendary frontman Roger Daltrey

12:03

from our archives. Daughtrey talked

12:05

about the first time he swung a microphone around

12:07

on stage. No one told me.

12:09

I got used to myself once

12:12

they.

12:12

Went into the free form in the early days

12:14

in the late sixties. It just came

12:16

out of boredom I was. I couldn't stand

12:18

there and be like Robert Plant. I wasn't cool

12:21

enough. I just needed to dance,

12:23

So I didn't want to dance like an ordinary

12:25

dancer. So I just started

12:27

to play with it and it just got bigger and

12:30

energy and channel the energy. And then

12:33

Pete started jumping and that legendary

12:35

jump of him. He's like a kangaroo.

12:38

And but

12:40

the whole thing was kind of in with the music. It

12:42

became like a ballet, didn't it. It was kind of

12:44

extraordinary.

12:46

Here the rest of my conversation with

12:48

Roger Daltrey and here's the Thing

12:51

dot Org. After the break we

12:53

talk about the women who became essential

12:55

to the group's sound. I'm

13:16

Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's

13:18

the Thing.

13:27

That's Christine mcvee performing the

13:29

Songbird. Mcvee joined

13:32

Fleetwood Mac in nineteen seventy when

13:34

Peter Green left. She'd married

13:37

John mcvee a couple of years before. Lindsey

13:40

Buckingham and Stevie Nicks joined in

13:42

nineteen seventy five. I wanted

13:44

to know if when Christine joined

13:46

there was any pressure to include a

13:48

woman.

13:50

Well, Christine, for sure, any

13:52

lovely lady out that would not take

13:54

it wrong. She was a musician, and

13:58

she was a great piano player, and

14:01

her experience was

14:03

already integrated with being I'm

14:06

a player and It was nothing

14:08

of the sort that it was a woman or

14:10

a man. It was just who you are and

14:12

what you do. Truly, it

14:15

was that and she cherishes that

14:17

to this day because we call

14:19

her the rock.

14:20

You know.

14:21

She's like, she doesn't rely

14:23

on anything other than no

14:25

prissy stuff. I am who I am, and

14:27

am I delivering what you need?

14:30

And she has that respect. So she came into

14:32

the band as a player, literally,

14:35

and there was no thought she knew John,

14:38

which had nothing to do with it.

14:40

Is your name really perfect? Is it Christine

14:43

perfect? Yeah?

14:44

And John would say she was perfect before

14:46

she married me.

14:49

Well, Jack, So.

14:53

That was really it. It was not about

14:55

having a lady in the bout we need a girl,

14:58

No, it was about really really great

15:01

musician, bloody good piano

15:03

player.

15:03

Let me just say, let me interject this

15:06

because it's true, which is that in that world

15:09

there is nobody who casts

15:11

on me like Christine mcne I mean,

15:13

I love her singing beyond believe.

15:16

I mean she does something to me that I can't

15:18

even describe. She's her bir singing is so beautiful,

15:21

you.

15:21

Know, So I can second that, right

15:23

right, right.

15:23

So she's with you in the band, and then

15:26

you decide to have another woman join the band.

15:28

So Buckingham, you asked him to join the

15:30

band.

15:30

Yeah, Bob Welch had left at

15:33

rather short notice, and I knew

15:35

Bob extremely well, really lovely,

15:38

hugely interesting chap. So

15:40

he left. But prior to that, I've been in

15:43

the studio sound City to try

15:45

and find a studio to record

15:48

the next album with Fleetwood. Matt he

15:50

leaves and I meet Stevie

15:52

and Lindsay after the fact, having

15:55

heard Keith played to demonstrate

15:57

the studio part of the Buckham Nick

16:00

Nick's album that he'd made with them,

16:02

the album, and

16:05

then Bob left. Then I made a phone call and I said,

16:07

you know that music you were playing? Who

16:09

What?

16:09

How?

16:10

And you're right, I was looking for a guitar player.

16:13

So I forever have Stevie

16:15

to this day in a comedic sense, but

16:18

always with a knife in my back that

16:21

it wasn't really me that you wanted, it was

16:23

Lindsay, which was true, and

16:26

in very short form, Lindsay

16:28

made it very clear that if he was

16:31

to join, which was not a slam

16:33

dunk at the beginning, because he and Stevie

16:35

were thinking about going forward in their own

16:37

world, and she actually persuaded

16:40

Lindsay to join the band

16:42

pretty much. She got

16:44

fed up with waiting tables and stuff,

16:47

so she came somewhat

16:50

originally by default, and yet

16:52

not because the real story is it

16:55

was very evident early on. Although

16:57

Stevie said, you know, loves to dig

17:00

at me, it was that, first

17:02

of all, Lindsay was incredibly loyal to

17:04

her and I'm not going to do this

17:06

without her. Boom over. Then

17:10

it didn't take a rocket scientist to

17:12

realize these songs, these beautiful songs

17:14

were co written by both Lindsay

17:17

and Stevie. And then you listen to

17:19

the vocal blend, which is none

17:21

other than going like when you hear the Everly Brothers,

17:24

you go like, oh my god,

17:26

that this joined at the hip and they

17:29

came in short form into the

17:31

band as a duo, which

17:33

was a merciful decision

17:36

when I look back, that Lindsay did

17:38

not desert her and said

17:41

I'm here, but I'm here with my partner, and

17:44

that's how that happened.

17:45

I've asked other very successful artists,

17:48

such as yourself in the music world, what

17:50

does a producer do for you when

17:52

you're in a studio, when you're making a record,

17:55

who's the decider, who decides

17:57

what take what track, this

18:00

vocal track, this drum track, whatever.

18:02

But when you had a collaboration with the producer that

18:04

helped you, what did they do for you?

18:06

Well, I think the simple form would be that

18:09

we as a band no matter what, which

18:12

is not always the case, and it's not always the magic

18:14

formula. A lot of people just totally

18:17

excel by being guided and permanently

18:20

told what to do and have a mirror

18:22

that's a reflection from another aspect,

18:25

another interpretation of really who they

18:27

truly are, And that's fine. That

18:29

was so not how we

18:32

grew up into and blustered into

18:34

what we were doing. So I

18:36

would say that anyone

18:39

that's worked, including Keith

18:42

Mike Vernon, the first record

18:44

producer, was probably the most

18:46

influential that he was

18:48

a blues fanatic and he ran that little

18:50

label we were on called Blue Horizon and

18:53

after that, so he would be picking

18:56

songs here and there with Peter and the

18:58

band. After that, it's really

19:00

about are you a band member meaning

19:03

them? How's the aesthetic of your

19:06

chemistry being able to not

19:09

insist but integrate right into

19:11

the fabric of being in a band.

19:14

And that's what I would always look

19:16

out for, and I think that's

19:18

been our success has been

19:21

absolute expression with

19:24

a mirror of sorts, but someone

19:26

who's really listening

19:29

to and having an empathy with what

19:31

am I dealing with here, especially

19:33

later on when we became very

19:36

much five separate, expressive

19:38

people that whoever

19:40

it was, you have to look back on

19:42

and give them huge amounts of credit.

19:45

Has been some form of a social

19:47

director more than an artistic

19:49

director. And I

19:51

lost all my hair because I was both.

19:53

But would

19:56

you say, when you say

19:59

five distinct beings,

20:02

there was a period when they weren't there were a unit

20:04

and they were a unit during what period? And what

20:07

was that like and what changed

20:09

that? Musically?

20:10

Well, Fleetwood Mac was already a

20:13

stage that existed,

20:15

and Fleetwood Mac was always about

20:18

change so that you were

20:20

accepted for who you were. Anyone

20:23

should express themselves. You know, when I look

20:25

back on it, that's in a naive way what

20:28

I must have understood, especially

20:30

being a drama when you go, oh, what the hell am I

20:33

going to do if I don't have a front

20:35

line and people that are

20:37

delivering the play. You

20:40

know, not to diminish who

20:42

I am and what I am, but that was my function

20:45

probably more than anything. So they came

20:47

as different characters walking

20:50

on that stage, and if you see

20:52

and hear the music, you go none

20:54

of it makes any sense. None of them

20:56

were clones of anyone. They

20:58

were all completely their

21:01

own entity. So what

21:03

they had to learn.

21:04

Was to be in a band.

21:06

Everyone was extremely unhappy emotionally

21:08

on the making of rumors and Lindsay's

21:11

sitting on the floor and it's tough.

21:14

You know, no one ever intended

21:16

to leave or anything. But one time

21:18

I remember sitting in the studio at the record

21:20

plant with Lindsay and he just

21:22

turned around and said, I don't

21:24

know where I can do this, you know, it's just, you

21:27

know, we're in transition here. And

21:31

his interpretation was can I be

21:33

in a band? Can I be in a band?

21:35

Especially with the pressure of

21:38

is this what it's like being in a band? You're

21:40

emotionally exposed? And everyone

21:43

was. We were all in you know, I'm drifting

21:45

into the area where we promised we wouldn't go.

21:47

But so I just sat with him

21:50

and he was playing a setar I remember it distinctly,

21:53

and I said, then you must go. If

21:55

it's self preservation don't

21:58

destroy that. Don't destroy us because

22:00

of the play in essence,

22:02

Peter Green. Yeah, And

22:05

I said, I don't have any ultimate

22:07

apart from if it's that bad, then you have

22:09

to go. And then I segued and I said, this

22:12

is what it is. Everything

22:14

is a compromise. When you're walking

22:16

on a stage and sharing that that stage

22:19

and this is that stage, and

22:21

I'm not forcing you. I'd extremely

22:23

sad if halfway through an album

22:25

you just can't finish it out. And

22:29

he didn't say much. He just said I

22:31

understand, and he stayed.

22:33

A guy once said to me, and he was much younger

22:35

than me, and this is maybe like ten years ago. I was

22:37

in my early fifties. It was in the lines

22:40

of advice to him for his career,

22:43

and I said, well, do you really want like the cold,

22:46

hard, unvarnished You want it with the bark

22:48

On or the bark off? Yeah, And I said, if

22:50

you want it with the bark On, then don't get

22:53

married till you're forty, don't have any kids

22:55

to your forty, give yourself you're

22:57

not just your twenties but your thirties. Give this

22:59

everything thing you have. If you want to be

23:01

an actor, with a real prime

23:03

If you want to be Leo DiCaprio, you want to be a guy

23:05

who's like at the top of the pile and making movies

23:08

with the best directors, the best scripts. Everything's

23:10

the best, the budgets, the release dates, everything.

23:12

If you want to surf that wave all the way

23:14

to the shore, then you have

23:16

to make this the most important thing in your life. Do you

23:18

find that that was true for you as well?

23:21

I think in retrospect we didn't

23:23

know because you're in it. But as a

23:25

comment, I think it's entirely correct

23:28

and proven out in

23:30

no uncertain terms of time

23:32

and time and time and time and time and time.

23:34

Again.

23:35

Are the miracles that slip through and survive

23:38

like a built in version of what you've just

23:40

said. In terms of advice, yeah,

23:42

few and far between. It really

23:45

puts a wall that you don't

23:48

even realize that you're putting up, where

23:50

you're so into what you're doing that people

23:53

get left out and feel

23:55

pushed away. So ideally, I think

23:57

your advice is entirely correct,

24:00

but that advice is always almost in

24:02

retrospect for anyone.

24:04

It's but I'm wondering also

24:07

with three men, I mean asleep

24:10

with mac is most renowned

24:12

for its three men and two women, and neither one

24:14

of those women has children?

24:16

Correct?

24:16

Were they people that were going through life and they were

24:18

like, well, we're going to get to that, and the next year they turned

24:20

around they were like wow, twenty five years wait

24:22

by like nothing.

24:23

You know, I would say if either

24:26

Chris or Stevie, I feel

24:28

comfortable in this conversation

24:30

saying there was no doubt that

24:33

they made that decision to

24:35

dedicate their lives to their careers

24:38

with flashes of what if,

24:41

But I think both of these ladies

24:44

would have no problems saying that that

24:46

was the order of the conscious choice. Yeah,

24:49

yeah, interesting, very interesting.

24:51

Yeah.

24:52

Now when people ask me about my drug

24:54

use, I say that I snorted a line of cocaine

24:56

from here to Saturn. Then we

24:58

did a line of cocaine on the rings of sat

25:01

and then we took it home with another line.

25:03

Oh, I've got your beat. I'm sure I

25:10

think your description is that actually

25:12

more far reaching than mine? A planetary

25:15

version, But my

25:17

version of that would be and I've never lived

25:20

it down, but you know, I

25:22

have no problem at all apart

25:24

from don go there. And then

25:26

you have the war stories which this is

25:29

sort of tending to be. And I'll preface

25:31

it by saying war stories are fine, but

25:33

there's a time and place and what can you learn from

25:35

them would be my little

25:37

lesson for anyone listening. So having

25:40

said that, my transgression

25:43

was, which was some awful

25:45

interview I did, and I said, well, I

25:47

one time, you know, I was in the studio and I'm

25:50

talking about my Well, how much coke do you think

25:52

I've ever done? This was like in our

25:54

private world, and we measured out a

25:57

good semi fat line of cocaine

26:00

and then duplicated it, and then

26:02

X amount of years, so

26:04

in the lasting something amount of

26:07

years we actually worked it out instead

26:09

of cutting tape and editing

26:12

the song together. We got into

26:14

a transgression of actually working

26:16

out probably about how long

26:18

would that line be? And it was seven

26:21

miles long, apparently, And

26:24

I never lived that down and years

26:27

all, especially in England, whether they love

26:29

all that terrible stuff. And I have

26:31

to sit there not talking about if

26:34

you'd be like someone talking about

26:36

something in your life versus the

26:39

play I'm in or the script I've

26:41

just written or the book I've just you know, and

26:43

you go you go like, well, live

26:46

with it because you opened your mouth

26:48

in the first place all those years ago, and

26:51

mine would be one of probably quite

26:53

a few transgressions in terms

26:55

of that. But comedically, so I

26:57

still get asked, you know, was

26:59

it really seven miles long? And I

27:02

looked down to my trouser and go, well,

27:04

I wished.

27:09

You know, I'm thirty five years sober. I got sober

27:11

a long time ago in la For

27:13

you, did you feel that

27:16

when that stopped? Because

27:18

for me, when it stopped, there were good things,

27:20

but there were also bad things because you're forced to confront

27:23

everything. You know, if you are if

27:25

you go out in the world and you don't drink and you

27:27

don't take drugs and minim commenting on you, but

27:29

speaking for myself, you are kind of unarmored,

27:32

and you need to go out and face the world that you need to

27:34

resolve all your problems. You can't sit in the problem

27:36

anymore. You've got to dissolve things and confront

27:38

things and clean up the masks and so forth. And

27:40

I'm wondering for you what happened to you musically

27:43

once you stopped abusing yourself.

27:47

Well, I still drink, but

27:49

the marching powder was a massive

27:52

part of my life for

27:55

probably way over twenty years.

27:57

God, it's a long time.

27:59

I don't even know. It's

28:01

a fucking miracle.

28:03

So that's a long time to have that.

28:06

Oh yeah, I was known as the king of tout

28:08

and everyone would always know that I

28:10

wouldn't hold it, you know. And

28:12

then I did hit a brick wall and

28:15

it was like slow motion. And

28:18

my mother Biddy would

28:20

always say, because they're hugely supportive,

28:23

almost blindly supported, Oh, it's

28:25

no problem at all. Whenever he wants to stop,

28:27

he can stop it, you know, all those catchphrases.

28:31

And I always sort of thought

28:33

that I could. And then I

28:36

hit a brick wall literally, and

28:39

someone that I shared my life with said,

28:41

I'm I'm done. I

28:43

can't be around this anymore. And

28:45

I said, please don't go leave

28:48

me alone for two

28:50

days, and

28:53

that's what I did and never touched

28:55

the stuff since overnight.

28:59

It's divine intervention, but it's also misplaced

29:03

in terms of that. That's when I probably

29:05

should have gone into a program and found

29:07

out what you touched on, what were

29:09

those reasons? And I've done that since

29:12

a couple of times with drink

29:14

and had a sort of a wake

29:17

up call and I just thought

29:19

it was fun. I was around people

29:22

telling me literally countless horror

29:24

stories of what had happened to them, especially

29:26

when there were children and young and

29:28

I had no support and all

29:31

sorts of terrible things. And I just

29:33

said, I feel so terrible because

29:36

I just thought it was fun until it wasn't.

29:38

And I still actually haven't found the key

29:41

of what was that. My parents

29:44

didn't drink unduly, had an

29:46

incredible supportive childhood.

29:49

But that brick wall.

29:51

Was it insecurity about being in public?

29:53

Maybe? Oh, I think out there

29:55

and being famous. I mean Fleetwood

29:58

Mac. I mean this music was coming out of every clamshell

30:00

on the beach for a while. Yeah, every

30:03

horse in the park was singing you can go

30:05

your own way. You know. It was like

30:07

this music was everywhere, everywhere.

30:11

There were so many songs that were just washing

30:13

over you. It was like in the air all the time. Was

30:15

that unsettling for you? Fame and all that

30:18

attention. Did you need to medicate

30:20

yourself to get through that period?

30:22

I would say immediately. Notice how quickly

30:24

I went. No, But I

30:27

do get nervous about performing. If

30:29

someone said make a speech and

30:32

read the speech to

30:34

three thousand people, I would

30:36

be really put upon,

30:40

go out on stage and just talk

30:42

to someone I love,

30:45

not even a question. I

30:47

know people around me that all of the

30:50

trimmings of what you just mentioned

30:52

would be. Was that something that freaked you out?

30:55

I have to say no, because

30:57

of the way I was brought up. It was

30:59

just fantastic and

31:02

fun. But actually

31:04

performing and delivering

31:06

certain aspects, I would have to

31:08

say, did bring

31:11

out a fundamental some form

31:13

of academic calling

31:16

out that you don't know quite

31:19

what you're doing, and therefore

31:22

you're shitting yourself. And therefore

31:25

I know for a fact. For years,

31:28

and I played sober for

31:31

fifteen years, the real truth

31:33

is I didn't enjoy it. So

31:36

when I play now, I have one

31:39

bottle of red wine and I'm fairly

31:41

well behaved, and without

31:44

it, I can't even breathe.

31:46

And I've tried hypnosis,

31:49

I've tried everything known to mankind

31:52

to get over it and breathing, and I had a

31:55

guy like meditating with

31:57

me on the road when I really really really

31:59

really really didn't drink. All

32:02

I can say is that instead

32:04

of enjoying myself, I had my road manager

32:06

with a brown paper bag so I could

32:08

breathe into it to stop myself getting

32:11

high anxiety. I don't enjoy

32:13

it, and it's because of

32:15

the element, which has nothing to do with fame

32:17

and fortune. It's actually who

32:20

are you? What are you in the moment and being

32:22

called out like being in the class

32:25

that I didn't I didn't

32:27

know.

32:29

Mcfleetwood. Subscribe

32:31

to Here's the Thing on the iHeartRadio

32:33

app, Apple Podcasts or wherever

32:36

you get your podcasts. While you're

32:38

there, leave us a review. I really appreciate

32:40

it. Few bands have managed

32:43

to survive longer than Fleetwood

32:45

Mac. When we return the surprising

32:47

resurgence of interest in the band's nineteen

32:50

seventy seven album Rumors.

33:10

Yes, the same kind of story.

33:12

It seems to come down long

33:15

ago. That's the song

33:17

hypnotized recorded during

33:19

the Bob Welch era of Fleetwood

33:21

Mac. Mick Fleetwood has been the

33:23

drummer of Fleetwood Mac for more than fifty

33:25

years. And as there's usually

33:28

one person in every long lasting

33:30

band that brings them back together, I

33:32

asked who was that person for Fleetwood

33:35

Mac.

33:36

It would be me and and that

33:39

was and is and has been my

33:43

function. I imaged

33:45

it a while ago, not not any big

33:47

deal, but I'm going like, you know, because

33:49

I don't write, I don't sing, although I'm enjoying

33:51

doing some of that now, which is

33:54

interesting, really actually interesting

33:56

to be able to make a private fool of yourself

34:00

with no pressure. I said, I think

34:02

my story would be and I'm really happy

34:05

about it and quietly proud

34:07

of it. That my function was

34:10

that I drifted into it, I

34:12

learnt it. And

34:15

me and John always wanted to

34:17

have a band to be in. Why

34:20

wouldn't you? And I said, I think

34:22

that story is my song.

34:25

You're a musical catalory. You can see so

34:27

many beautiful songs. It's beautiful

34:30

music, and the poetry is beautiful,

34:33

and the lyrics it still moves you to

34:35

this day.

34:36

Yeah. I take that as a lovely

34:39

compliment on behalf of all

34:42

of us in this crazy

34:44

band, and thank you. And

34:46

I think there is sometimes almost

34:48

the lighthearted part of Fleetwood

34:51

Mac or whatever word one wants to

34:53

use, the sort of the poppy

34:55

part of it was always balanced

34:58

out by a form of rev a

35:01

form of very often some

35:04

romance of sadness and entertaining

35:07

That type of dialogue would be for

35:09

me, is is songbird, and

35:12

there are, of course are others, But I remember

35:15

when Chris wrote that, and I actually

35:17

spoke very recently to her about

35:19

it. We just drifted into a conversation

35:22

and she totally remembered, and

35:25

I went, Chris, this is like

35:28

Edith Piaf on a stage

35:31

alone and she was in the studio at

35:33

the record plant, and I said, this

35:36

needs to be lonely. We should

35:38

record it in an empty theater, not

35:40

in a shag carpet studio.

35:43

Let's go and do that. And we did, and we went

35:46

a college over in Berkeley and

35:48

recorded that song. As

35:51

the imaging of it was so devastating

35:53

to me. I said, you are alone.

35:57

You are alone playing this

35:59

lovely, lovely song, and it should

36:01

be all of that. And

36:04

that's exactly what we did. It was the

36:06

most pregnant suite moment

36:10

around the song that I can tell in our

36:12

short conversation.

36:14

Some including Stevie

36:16

Nix, And we've read about Dylan's going to

36:18

sell his catalog and David Crosby's

36:20

getting ready to sell his catalog. And I guess in this COVID

36:23

era and beyond, in the age of streaming

36:25

music, people are seeing sources of revenue

36:28

dry up. Certainly some of these

36:30

people are older. You know, they're not selling their

36:32

catalog and they're in their thirties or whatever, But

36:34

what do you think of them?

36:36

I think it's great. I'm sure it's not for everyone

36:38

or whatever, but I

36:41

think the circumstances has triggered

36:44

so many things. This would be

36:46

one of them. I think those decisions

36:48

may or may not have been made anyhow,

36:51

who's to say why not? And

36:54

a body of work that is to

36:57

be quite frankly translated into

36:59

all sorts of lovely things for these people,

37:01

whatever that might be. Because the

37:04

people you're talking about, they certainly don't need any

37:06

money for the most

37:08

part. But no, let's

37:11

say we doubt it. So it becomes

37:14

something that will grow into

37:16

all sorts of other things. One would imagine. What

37:19

they might be is their business, you know. And

37:22

one of the things I think is family. I

37:24

think a lot of people are handing

37:26

down to family ahead

37:29

of time versus you know, people

37:31

picking through when your God forbid,

37:33

whenever that moment comes. And to

37:35

see family enjoying stuff

37:37

that can be allocated before you do pop

37:40

off.

37:40

So, if I'm not mistaken, Rumors

37:43

is a best selling album again now

37:46

as the direct result of some guy on a

37:48

skateboard swinging down

37:51

cranberry juice. What did you think?

37:55

What did you think of when you first

37:57

came across the TikTok? Phenomenally right

38:00

occurred.

38:01

Well, I know him as Nathan. His online

38:04

name is Dogface, and

38:07

it is quite unbelieveable.

38:10

And all hell was breaking loose because

38:13

he made a decision one day to do

38:15

his thing. It happened in

38:17

the most charming way. And then

38:19

someone said, well would you would you? I said, well, I can't

38:22

get on a skateboard, so I hung myself

38:24

off the back of a golf cart

38:27

and did the thing. And the next thing I

38:29

know, we're all on you know, halftime

38:31

sports programs, and god knows what else. His

38:34

whole life has changed. And

38:38

I actually loved it because it was so not

38:41

thought of. One of the lovely things I

38:43

was able to say on a zoom call. He

38:45

was doing an interview in England with some

38:47

very upstanding BBC chap

38:50

and he had no idea I was going to come on the

38:53

zoom call. So that's when I first

38:55

met him, you know, face to face, And

38:58

then his family came on. They sang songs

39:00

to me and stuff, and I said, let

39:02

me tell you Nathan Fleetwood Mac

39:04

os it's

39:06

been a fantastic moment

39:09

in time that when a wall and

39:11

typical Fleetwood mac just when you

39:14

think you know we've survived,

39:17

we've been really lucky, you know, in so

39:19

many some of the things we've touched on in our

39:21

talk where against hopeless

39:23

odds we've prevailed. And I

39:25

always joke about, especially with Lindsay

39:28

Buckingham years ago. I used to sit with

39:30

him and go like, we are the most

39:33

abused rock and roll franchise

39:36

in the world, meaning we've never capitalized

39:38

on anything. Really, we're all idiots.

39:43

But it's sort of good and we're

39:46

still here.

39:47

It's unbelievable. I mean again,

39:49

I say this because it's easy, and that is you're

39:51

still here and people are picking

39:54

songs of yours to soundtrack

39:56

their kind of playfulness, TikTok

39:59

and so forth, because the music is great.

40:01

I mean you and you're going back

40:03

to hypnotized and Welsh. I love

40:05

Hypnotized, I love Mystery to Me, I

40:08

love all I love those early records. I

40:10

play them to death. I love

40:13

everything guys, and then solo acts

40:15

Christia, you know, with Stevie's solo albums, blah blah,

40:17

blah. I love it all, but I mean

40:19

you you live in people's hearts because the music

40:22

is that good. You guys made some of

40:24

the greatest music in the

40:26

history of the music posiness. Thank you so

40:28

much.

40:29

No, it's been an absolute pleasure. And I

40:32

remember something my father said, and

40:35

it seems to really apply to a

40:37

lot of the storytelling about this

40:39

funny life and certainly Fleetwood Mac

40:42

and the fact that there

40:44

have been all sorts of ups

40:46

and downs and around the Marlbury Bush

40:48

and pain and a lot of happiness as

40:50

well. My dad would always say one

40:53

thing, Nick, I can tell

40:55

you it's all been worth a damn

40:58

And hearing is say that about

41:00

the music makes me feel that it's

41:02

all been worth a diamond.

41:03

Thank you.

41:05

Lots of love to you, and

41:08

my love to you.

41:10

Mix Sleepwood, I've

41:12

been.

41:12

Such more

41:17

board of gold like

41:21

a car the

41:25

end of the rain.

41:32

I'm Alec Baldwin and this is here's

41:35

the thing from iHeartRadio.

41:39

I'm not leave

41:43

then You're bad, No,

41:48

not you,

41:58

I'm I've

42:02

got a bad sting of warm