0:01

Hello, I'm

0:04

Alec Baldwin and you're listening

0:06

to Here's the Thing. My

0:11

guests today are the filmmakers

0:14

and subjects of the Oscar

0:16

nominated documentary For Sama.

0:22

The film powerfully shows

0:25

the bravery and idealism

0:27

of Syrians who are fighting

0:29

for political freedom, and it

0:31

shows the depravity of the Assad

0:33

regime. But

0:38

much more than that, For Sama is

0:40

a sad but hopeful story

0:42

about starting a family as everything

0:44

else you know and love is

0:46

ripped away. In

0:49

two thousand eleven, as the Syrian

0:52

Uprising got underway, For Sama,

0:54

co director Wad al Khatib

0:56

was in college in Aleppo. She

0:59

was from a middle class family and her

1:01

fiance's parents were living

1:03

abroad. They could have gotten out,

1:05

but chose not to, and then they

1:08

were trapped, and then ward was

1:10

pregnant. She started

1:12

filming everything, the

1:14

protests, the shelling of her husband,

1:16

holmsa's hospital, even

1:18

tea with friends, under the

1:20

constant threat of death, and

1:27

as she films, her pregnancy becomes

1:29

more and more apparent. Wad

1:32

eventually gives birth and starts

1:34

to raise her daughter, Sama

1:36

in a city under siege. After

1:39

the family is finally forced to flee,

1:41

she meets filmmaker Edward Watts

1:44

in London. Together they edit

1:46

the film Watts.

1:49

Wad and her husband Dr

1:51

hamsa Al Kateb joined

1:53

me at a live event at last

1:55

year's Hampton's International Film Festival.

1:58

I wanted to understand what would make

2:00

educated people with access to comfortable

2:02

lives be willing to risk everything

2:05

to change their government. I will

2:07

speak personally. We never felt

2:10

proud that we are Syrian. Everything

2:12

in Syria since I grow up,

2:14

it's all related to Assad family. The main

2:16

thing that they always in the media trying to show

2:19

the Syrian regime propaganda that

2:22

said he's the doctor was

2:24

in Britain and he's like uh

2:29

there and they were like this democratic

2:31

family and all of that, while

2:33

the reality is all of our life. When

2:35

we were in school, half of the said his father, we

2:38

were calling him the only words that the immortal

2:41

leader. That's it. And

2:44

now like all in like before

2:46

the revolution, before two eleven, the

2:48

country in all the media and the

2:50

newspaper and everything, it's called Assad

2:53

Syria. It was nothing like

2:55

surprising for us that the country was run

2:57

by a dictatorship. Had they known democrats

3:00

you prior to the a Sad

3:02

family before

3:04

a lot of political parties, election

3:07

for the parliament member and all

3:09

of that. But after Las said, it's

3:11

all become based on one party,

3:13

which is a Bath party, the same party that

3:16

was also in Iraq in

3:18

Bath Party. And then after

3:21

that just nobody became interest

3:23

in politics because you know that

3:25

it's just run by this family. It's

3:27

rune by this party. And the

3:29

only thing, the only thing

3:31

that I still remember my my parents who

3:33

are telling me, like, mind your own business,

3:36

graduate from university and just please

3:39

leave the country to like practice

3:41

medicine in Germany or in the UK, and

3:43

just stay there and don't talk

3:46

anything about politics, like not

3:48

even in in in the university, like don't

3:50

dream to become like one of the like

3:52

school membership. And is that the predominant

3:55

mindset is when you can you get

3:57

out of here. You don't stay Yeah,

3:59

because you have built your dreams in such a

4:01

country. You know each other part of the corrupted system

4:04

to be like to get employed or you

4:06

just My my parents lived in

4:08

Saudi Arabia for twenty eight years

4:11

after immediately they graduated. They were both

4:13

mathematic teachers, so they both graduated

4:15

university and then traveled to Saudi

4:17

Arabia teaching there for twenty

4:20

eight years to afford to buy

4:22

a house, and their only advice like, please, son,

4:24

just we did all of that for you

4:26

to get to university, finish your school and

4:29

come to Saudi Arabia. Just they want you

4:31

to come, but you didn't. Yeah,

4:35

why Basically

4:38

after the revolution, which personally

4:40

I didn't expect at

4:42

all that it will start in Syria, Like I

4:45

didn't think that we will dare to stand against

4:47

the Lessa, and when

4:49

it started, we we we felt

4:51

like we this is our country, belongs

4:54

here and we have now a say

4:56

in the future of this country, so everyone

4:58

should participant. And then day

5:00

by day, demonstration after demonstration, we

5:04

personally and I think a lot of other Syrians

5:06

felt like, as I said,

5:08

we had a say here in this country and it's

5:10

now our responsibility to stay here till

5:13

till the end. Yeah. In two

5:15

thousand and eleven, I felt like, I'm Syrian,

5:17

and I'm proud of being Syrian, and I really

5:19

want to stay and do what I want

5:22

to do. And before even we knew each other,

5:24

both of us has a different plan to

5:26

go out, and like as

5:29

really many other people, we like canceled

5:31

that and just stayed to do what we believe

5:33

in How did you connect?

5:37

I was very passionate about what's been happening in Syria

5:39

since the beginning, because I felt

5:41

that we've never seen anything like it, to see

5:43

people peacefully protesting in the way that

5:45

they were and being met with a level

5:47

of violence that was just unprecedented.

5:50

I felt since the Second World War. You know, we

5:52

have this event in England called Bloody Sunday,

5:54

which is like a huge stain when soldiers

5:56

shot ten protesters, and these guys were facing

5:59

ten bloody son days every week,

6:01

and they were still coming back and peacefully

6:03

protesting and not resorting to violence. And

6:06

so for years I've been saying, can we please

6:08

make a film not about ISIS and not about

6:10

all those distractions, but about people like

6:12

these two amazing guys, middle

6:15

class people just like us, with our

6:17

education, who are asking for the things that we'll

6:19

take for granted. And so

6:21

for years I've been saying that. But it was only

6:23

after Wad left that people realized.

6:26

She came out after the tragic events you saw,

6:29

came to London with these war battered

6:31

hard drives that literally bore the stains

6:33

and wounds of war, and said, look

6:36

what should we do with this this huge

6:38

pile of material. I came in

6:40

to help her craft craft

6:43

the films. What kind of work were you doing before the What

6:45

kind of films were you making? I was making lots of

6:47

films about trouble places around the world. I

6:49

did. I did do one about Isis, which was about

6:52

the Zidi women who had been kidnapped

6:54

and an amazing, brave group of people who

6:56

were trying to help them escape from ices

6:58

captivity. I've been to Congo, I've been to Afghanistan,

7:01

Yemen, had been to a lot of difficult

7:03

places.

7:04

You basically

7:07

trying to get people to see that people

7:09

in these places are not some alien

7:11

species, they're not barbarians. They

7:13

are just like us, and we have something

7:15

at stake in their fate around

7:17

the world. We need to change the way that we look

7:19

at the world so it's not like us over here

7:21

we're okay and they're in trouble, and you know it's

7:23

a shame, but what the hell. We're all connected.

7:26

And I think Syria more than any other

7:28

conflict proves that. Now

7:34

you meet with Edward after the

7:36

fact, and so you're shooting,

7:38

you're there, are you the

7:40

camera operator? And I was the boss

7:42

to myself. You were you directed yourself.

7:45

You're like the orson wells of Syria. Uh.

7:49

But but the your inne level

7:51

and the sense you get, of course, is

7:54

that at any given moment you could be

7:56

dead, you personally and

7:58

your children and your husband. A given moment,

8:01

the bombs are gonna drop and you're gonna get hit,

8:03

as as in other areas. Yeah,

8:05

And this is one of the things why

8:07

I kept filming and why I filmed everything,

8:10

why I was like very obsessed

8:12

about like filming even if we were asleep,

8:15

because I felt that any moment could

8:17

be the last minute. And I'm here, I have

8:19

that chance now to film this and

8:22

I will be killed. I will not do a film. And I

8:24

wasn't really planning of what I

8:26

will do in the all this material. I

8:28

was like, yeah, I'm here now, I know that this

8:31

is so important. I know if I've been killed,

8:33

like this material will be something someone

8:36

outside will use it one day. But

8:38

what I need to do now that just make

8:41

sure that this person who will take this

8:43

this material will have a lot of like

8:45

blenty choices to choose

8:48

what story he was now Prior to two thousand

8:50

and eleven, I'm assuming the population of a lepod

8:52

was one thing, and then I diminished considerable.

8:55

And when you were in a lepo, did you happen to

8:57

live in an area that was less likely

8:59

to get bombed like there

9:01

was other thing whether things they were trying to bomb,

9:03

like power stations and media

9:06

stations, Were they're trying to bomb certain targets

9:08

and you were not in that area or were you just as

9:11

vulnerable as everybody. We both

9:13

from west part of Alippo,

9:15

where it was under the regime control all

9:17

the time. So in two thousand twelve,

9:20

when uh it's part

9:22

of a Lippo's announced that non control

9:25

area which was under the

9:27

Free Syrian Army, the people who

9:29

carry wobon. So we moved to

9:31

that area because that was like

9:34

a blaze out of the gym control. It

9:36

was safe that the regime can't arrest

9:38

you, but it's not safe because

9:41

the regime started bombing. So we were

9:43

living in that place. We knew that this

9:45

is now a free play area.

9:48

There's many people who came to this

9:51

place to live because they don't want to live under

9:53

the region control anymore. And

9:55

it was just a very strange life. Everything

9:58

from zero there's no

10:00

basic services. There's nothing, and that's

10:02

why from the set up the hospital, so

10:05

that place was just like a

10:07

new city where there's

10:09

really no one and people start

10:11

like to come and start their new

10:14

life in that place. Basically, I like I

10:16

wish that we were vulnerable

10:20

as the other people because the region was

10:22

just bunishing everyone

10:24

who's living there. That the main purpose

10:27

was to make life as

10:29

like impossible for for the people,

10:31

and like this is what happened when you're living not

10:34

under my control. But basically they

10:36

we always know and everyone, all the civilians knew

10:38

that the hospitals are

10:41

the main targets of the regime, the

10:43

backery, to the schools, every

10:45

every place where people can be

10:48

like living normally or they want like

10:50

some services, they were being like

10:52

attacked more than any other place. So

10:55

like I had some patience and I sometimes need to admit

10:57

like a patient for for five days

11:00

the hospital. He was telling me, like, can you

11:02

give me just the I V drugs and I will get him home,

11:04

Like you know, a doctor, it's just difficult to

11:06

look to stay five days in a hospital

11:09

just dangerous. Sometimes like a mother

11:11

will leave her children there and

11:13

she said, like I trust you that you will take

11:15

care of him, but I will not stay here for like

11:17

six days until the child

11:19

will like a discharge

11:21

from from the hospital. When we moved the hospital,

11:24

there was like

11:27

a small military base for

11:29

for the s A fighters,

11:31

and we literally

11:34

displaced them. They just run away. They moved

11:36

because the hospital was there, and she was like, oh, it's

11:39

too dangerous to leave our weapons

11:41

next to you. We just move. Just

11:44

to go back a little bit to describe your

11:47

own backgrounds, you studied medicine

11:49

where I studied medicine in faculty

11:52

of Medicine in a university starting

11:55

two thousand and five,

11:59

graduated for Bright two thousand and twelve

12:01

my last year, and usually practicing

12:04

in the university hospital. So

12:06

I was participated in in the

12:09

demonstrations at the university, the

12:11

one that you've seen in the beginning of the film. I

12:14

graduated the brewery decided basically

12:16

my main dream just

12:18

to travel to Germany and the train

12:20

as a neurosurgeon. So

12:23

but I decided like, okay, I'll stay in

12:25

the country until less it is down for a few

12:28

maybe months, and then go to

12:30

Germany. But here we are, now,

12:33

what is your background in filmmaking? How did

12:35

that begin? For you where and when I

12:37

was from myself host

12:39

like every other people around

12:41

the world, you filmed yourself at

12:44

home. Okay, you

12:46

didn't got a film school and study film, No

12:48

you didn't. I was. I did

12:50

economics and then I

12:52

was in the university when the revolution

12:54

started. So I was the first

12:56

demonstration, the second, third one. We've

12:59

started, like many people in the protest,

13:03

filming what was happening because

13:05

we felt that this is something very important.

13:08

And when did that start for you? When did you feel

13:10

the urges are documenting what was happening around

13:12

you? Like I think the

13:14

third protest I

13:17

joined, start like

13:19

filming with my phone, and then after

13:21

maybe like other for

13:24

protests, I started like filming

13:26

before the protest and with some

13:28

people, asking them about what they

13:31

feel. And at that time you can't show

13:33

any phase of these people. So like

13:35

most of these interviews was like

13:37

like from here to down, which

13:40

is like it's not working for anything. Did

13:42

you get your first camera? The first

13:44

camera I had? It was the first scene

13:47

when you've seen did the camera come

13:49

from? So I'm sure that there

13:51

were a lot of camera stores opening a lapo.

13:53

No, there was like it was really a crime to

13:55

have a camera so I got it from

13:57

a friend. It was sony

14:00

hand handy one, very small, and

14:02

I couldn't take it out from my bag.

14:05

He was all the time, yeah,

14:07

and into my bag all the time, and I make

14:09

holes in many bags I have. So

14:12

that protest was the first time

14:14

I really liked there that I can't take my

14:16

camera and put it out because

14:19

like, this protest was like thousands of people.

14:21

So I was like, I don't care

14:23

whatever will happen. This is very important

14:26

to be fun. So I've talked it out and start

14:28

filming. And how many other people were doing that at

14:30

the time. I don't think there was any camera. I'm

14:32

like, because no one was like thinking beyond

14:35

what was happening. It was more about news on

14:37

Facebook. But I was like, okay,

14:39

I love filming and I really enjoyed

14:41

that. So I was That's why my friend who

14:43

has the camera, he didn't use it. He give it to me

14:46

because you think that this is a stupid care she

14:48

will film by me. This is too

14:50

dangerous. I want to ask you,

14:52

Edward, so how do you interact

14:55

with them for the first time when you get the footage?

14:57

We were match made to be honest, as I say, when

15:00

wed revealed that she had this archive of over

15:02

five hundred hours. Incredible revealed

15:05

to our colleagues at because she'd done some stuff for Channel

15:07

for News, so a couple of bits

15:09

of her footage had been seen on the news and

15:11

as you see in the film, you know they've got with these likes

15:14

and shares on Facebook. But you arrived

15:16

in London when with the footage two

15:18

thousand seventeen February, one

15:20

month after we left a repo. I went to

15:23

London because I was working at Channel

15:25

for News in two thousands sixteen and we

15:27

were nominated to some like so

15:29

you were getting stuff to them and like

15:32

just a little bit less than eight minutes,

15:34

you had a presence in the UK media

15:36

and then you wind up meeting with him. Yeah. What

15:39

happened, well, essentially was like a blind date.

15:41

So we met each other and just

15:43

started talking and wad and basically

15:45

we just had a conversation about what

15:48

she wanted to do with the footage and what

15:50

and when she started showing it to me, we just

15:52

sat for eight days with her

15:54

scrubbing through this stuff and showing

15:57

just some fraction of what she gathered,

15:59

and I just knew that it was the most extraordinary

16:02

archive of documentary footage that I was aware

16:04

of, because not only did it capture

16:07

all the horror and the difficult

16:09

times as you've seen, but it just captured the full

16:11

spectrum of human life. There, the joy,

16:13

the jokes. I mean, my experience of being in conflict

16:15

zones is how much humor there is. That's

16:18

what people do to keep themselves going, you

16:20

know, to support each other, and you often only hear

16:22

about all the terrible things they've done. You

16:24

don't hear enough about what the best

16:26

part of human beings in those situations.

16:29

And yet this amazing woman had managed to capture

16:31

it on film, and you know you must know this. You know,

16:33

normally when you start a project, the question is

16:35

right, we've got an idea, like how good will this be?

16:38

But when I sat with her and we saw this footage,

16:40

I was like, this should be amazing,

16:43

like and it's our responsibility to do

16:45

justice to these guys stories and to what she'd

16:48

managed to capture. Edward

16:51

Watts alongside the four

16:53

SAMA co director wad Al

16:56

Kateb and her husband Dr

16:58

hamsa Olcatib. The

17:00

medical charity Doctors Without

17:02

Borders, known by its French

17:04

acronym m SF is

17:07

currently active near it Lib,

17:09

the last Syrian rebel stronghold.

17:12

It's where wand and harms of fled

17:14

after militias drove them out of Aleppo.

17:18

Dr Joanne Lou just stepped

17:20

down after six years as MSF's

17:23

international president. She and

17:25

I talked about what it was like working

17:28

in war torn Zechenia. You

17:30

are bringing other people in danger. We

17:33

were on the attack on a regular basis, that's one

17:35

thing, but the threat of being abducted

17:37

was so huge, and we knew

17:39

that if something were ever to happen to

17:42

the MSF staff, then we will pull out,

17:45

So we were praying

17:47

for not It was so

17:49

nerve wracking out of fear. Yeah,

17:52

and I hate that because you know this, this is so

17:54

self center and compared to what all those people

17:56

are going through. Come on, get a grip

17:58

on yourself. The

18:01

rest of my conversation with Joanne

18:03

Lou is in our archives that

18:05

here's the thing, Dot Org. I'm

18:19

Alec Baldwin, and this is here's

18:21

the thing. When they began their

18:23

filmmaking collaboration, wad

18:25

Al Katibu handed her London based

18:28

collaborator Edward Watts, over

18:30

five hours of footage

18:33

from inside Aleppo. And

18:35

that wasn't all of it. I

18:37

mean she was still bringing out footage on a couple of weeks

18:39

ago. I was saying, hey, what did we never use this? I was like, stop,

18:42

please see the two of you like at home in bed, and she's

18:44

like, arms, wake

18:47

up. Actually it

18:50

was really annoying because

18:53

it's necessary, right, and she was spending

18:55

everything, and since she's the wife,

18:57

I can't say anything, so just supports,

18:59

you deal, your pay and like,

19:02

I always felt that whatever you think about

19:04

will happen, So I wanted the attraction

19:07

law and all of that. So I always was positive,

19:09

like we're going to live. Nothing will happen to the

19:11

hospital, everything is fine, We're going

19:13

to get victory. And what was always

19:15

like filming like because you want to capture

19:17

everything whenever happens. And I was always

19:20

like, you're just terrifying me. I feel like I'm

19:22

going to die now, just please stop. I'm

19:24

going to live. But it's interesting that in the film you

19:26

do get that sense and you don't want to project

19:29

something. When did you shoot and when did

19:31

you not shoot? Were there any rules? I

19:33

don't shoot when the battery is empty.

19:37

This is the only get to charge. Yeah,

19:39

I was filming at the two thousand

19:41

and eleven and twelves like normally

19:43

as any other filmmaker could films like

19:45

things that you think that this is important,

19:48

this is could be something important. But

19:50

then like in two thousand and thirteen, I

19:52

was like more filming because I

19:55

get the sense of that strange life.

19:57

But then like suddenly we've been in

20:00

hospital for the first six months and

20:02

I was like shooting us like in

20:04

the mascret or eating or something,

20:07

and then suddenly like two of the

20:09

people who we lived with, there's just

20:11

like being killed. And at

20:13

that moment, I felt like every

20:16

minute could be the last one, and it's so

20:18

important for us to keep that. And

20:20

I think even you said

20:22

that one time that at that moment, I felt

20:24

like, no, we need all this life to be

20:26

saved, whatever the situation was, and

20:29

because really I felt that I could be killed

20:32

now, so this is important. I

20:34

didn't feel at at any footage

20:36

I've got that there's something it could

20:39

be not important. You had cards, obviously

20:41

digital cards that were files that filled

20:43

up, and did you have problems getting

20:46

more and more supplies? Was it difficult or

20:48

did you have a pipeline to get that stuff because of your

20:50

relationship with the British television

20:53

states. Yeah, the British television relation was

20:55

in two thousands sixteen, which is just the last

20:57

year, but everything before was I

20:59

was on and even on my relationship with

21:01

them, they support me a lot that like

21:04

emotionally because they don't have

21:06

any chance to get anything inside.

21:08

But Alippo was not a small

21:11

city, and there there was a Jurkish border which

21:13

is opened, so there's a trade always.

21:15

You have everything. You can buy a drone if you want

21:17

to buy a drone, and you shot with the drone,

21:20

I could tell Yeah, I thought, I

21:22

thought, I'm looking at the landscape

21:24

thinking, I don't think there's any buildings that were tall enough

21:26

for you to stand in the window to shoot those shot

21:29

you shot with the drone. Yeah, did

21:31

you go to Turkey? No. I got it

21:34

from also another friend who brought it before,

21:36

but he didn't work on that. So

21:38

the first like ten times I

21:40

was just going with him teach me how to

21:43

do this. So also the footage that

21:45

you've seen, it's not very good. Actually, this

21:48

is like a little bit of what I

21:50

could capture, which is good, and

21:52

it's seen a lot of like miss of

21:54

some things like where you can did you

21:56

crash the drone a few times? Yes? Yeah,

21:59

it's been like act you. I was very lucky

22:01

that I did that last scene and

22:03

then the day after that it was like

22:05

I didn't work. But also like there's

22:07

a very big problems always happened.

22:10

Was like the laptop and they s the

22:12

card and the charger

22:14

of this, and then it's very really

22:17

I don't know, but small things, but it's very

22:19

the power go out over time. This is another

22:22

problem which you have specific time to

22:24

do this, or if you are in the hospital, there's

22:27

better than if you are at home. But it's

22:29

all like, for example, my

22:31

my Mike was damage in one

22:33

place and there's one scene

22:36

from that damage Mike, but

22:38

I don't have any other one after this.

22:41

So it was like a lot of obstrutting things,

22:43

but it's done in the end. Now

22:46

you're obviously you're a physician, and you

22:49

stayed because you felt an obligation to your

22:51

community. Exactly. That's what happened because

22:53

we we had a chance

22:56

to leave Semma with my parents in

22:58

Turkey before going back to Apple. But

23:02

the first thing that came to both of our minds

23:04

that what life its child will have,

23:06

Like if she just grew away from her

23:08

parents, we might be killed or we

23:11

might be sieged for five years and she will just grow

23:13

up with her grandparents for five

23:15

years. So we just like that

23:18

we'll just stay together as a family. Whatever

23:21

we were facing, we're facing it together.

23:23

And also we felt, as you said, very

23:26

responsible for to being part of this community,

23:28

Like it's not when the hardest time, we say like, oh

23:30

now we're taking like the safe side and it's

23:32

just only you because we were part of them. And

23:36

I feel like we're like traitor if

23:38

we just take the safe side and just

23:40

escape. But eventually you do live, event

23:43

you do the well, what's the breaking point? When do

23:45

you say to yourself, I wanna let me have your opinion

23:47

about her, Like we didn't live really

23:50

like we were forced to flee out and

23:52

like a lipple. When we left, there was no one

23:55

at all like the Russian and a

23:57

sad regime was the Turkish government

23:59

and do you and they decided that all these

24:01

people who are in Alppho will be displaced out

24:04

and the regime will control this. So even

24:06

this there was no option for us to stay

24:08

or not to stay. We were the last

24:10

convoy who left Aleppo and Alipano

24:13

or under the regime control. We're struggling

24:15

to stay. Basically all that we

24:17

we went, the decision was made for you exactly

24:20

just the final days we were like

24:22

seed in around two

24:24

square kilometers only surrounded

24:27

by the Iranian forces, covered

24:29

by the Russian work crafts.

24:33

And then Turkey came

24:35

to the militias that controlling

24:37

our area that this is your only option.

24:40

Either will come inside and we don't guarantee

24:43

what the Iranians will do. You

24:45

either get out or whoever wants to say,

24:48

can stay. So basically all the fighters,

24:50

doctors, activist, journalist, teachers,

24:53

with their families and children, they

24:55

just went out. The woman who's cooking

24:58

the rice, who were the head

25:00

scarf? What is her name? She's

25:03

a she's your friend. Yes. Have

25:05

you still remained in touch with them at all? We stayed

25:07

like every day they are in Turkey

25:10

in Ghaza top and we

25:12

were just like the last August we had

25:14

holiday for three weeks we spent together

25:17

and they've like good, doing

25:19

very well, but it's still like not that get

25:22

good life in Turkey. It's a lot of rasism

25:24

and the kids not very happy at school, but

25:27

they are like safe, doing very very

25:29

good in Turkey. When

25:31

you immediately leave a Luba, where do you go? We

25:34

went to Atlib for two weeks

25:37

is the last area out of regime control.

25:39

Whereas the Times articles speaks

25:41

about this hospital and

25:44

we've we stayed there two weeks until

25:46

we've got a permission because from the

25:48

doctor to cross the Turkish

25:50

border to see our

25:53

families. Since that time, we've never

25:55

went back. And you went to Turkey

25:57

for how long we stayed? One year and a half

25:59

until we moved to London? And why

26:02

London? Why you

26:04

got the visa British

26:08

a lot, my friends a lot. Now,

26:12

when you get this footage and you sit

26:14

down and you work with Ward,

26:16

what were some of the biggest decisions you had in

26:18

terms of what stays? I mean because obviously

26:21

in a film like this there's so

26:23

much suffering and there's so much and you

26:26

have to put the right amount that

26:29

in the mix. What were some of the difficult

26:31

choices out

26:33

Everyone had a particular scene

26:36

that mattered a lot to them on the whole team that they

26:38

wish we could have included. I mean, there was one scene

26:40

the hands are brought up right when we were about to lock

26:42

the film, he said, why couldn't we put that in?

26:44

And I was like, it's done, which is an extraordinary

26:47

thing. It's like a film from a scene from

26:49

a Hollywood film where you see these guys walking

26:51

down the street. They're just like very small and

26:54

a sniper comes shooting at them

26:56

and basically hits around their feet and they all

26:58

go yeah, they jump

27:00

over a wall. This uh. This

27:03

like video was filmed by someone who we

27:05

don't know, and we met him like

27:07

two years after that, and he was

27:09

like telling one of our friends that he has

27:12

seen he ticked from the window for people

27:15

walking in that and then my friend

27:17

was like, show me this and then they recognize

27:19

us, so they give us this video. So

27:22

even like it's really strange things

27:24

and if someone told you this, you will

27:26

not like trust that's true,

27:28

But when you see this you can

27:31

like see us both. There was so much,

27:33

but I think the thing that we wanted to do was make a

27:35

film that like you guys coming in off

27:37

the sunny streets of like that East Hampton

27:39

could go to a lepar for an hour and a half, you

27:42

know, and that you could be there and you could feel

27:44

what these guys went through, understand it and

27:47

bear it because in the earlier versions, you

27:49

know, some of the cuts that we did early on, we

27:51

showed it to our friends and family and they were

27:53

overwhelmed because it went too dark.

27:55

And so one of our big things is getting

27:57

the movement between the light and the dark, when

28:00

you know, when you've been hammered, you had a moment

28:02

where you could just draw breath, where

28:04

we just had an uncut shot of Samma just

28:06

being amazing, where you could just settle

28:09

down and think, right, there is still good in

28:11

life in the world. We've really tried to do

28:15

find a way to give the right

28:17

reflection of the true experience

28:20

because like after everything we went to though,

28:22

we're still like very strong and

28:24

very we still like stand and keep

28:26

fighting for the for this as we were there,

28:29

and just like the true experience of this

28:31

is not like people who have been like

28:34

attacking in these places and then in the

28:36

end they are really lost or

28:38

really not feeling good. So

28:41

in in that new structure

28:43

which we did the last one you've seen now, it's

28:45

more about like going between

28:47

the dark and light and giving the

28:49

people the understanding like why we stayed

28:51

and just how much hope there was. I mean, that was the thing,

28:54

you know, after all these guys have been through. When

28:56

I met them for the first time and got to know them, you

28:58

just felt how much hope they had,

29:00

how much they look back on This experience actually

29:03

is an important one and a positive

29:05

one in their lives, despite the way it ended. And

29:07

that was so important to convey

29:09

because there is always hope. Frankly speaking,

29:12

I've lost top because basically

29:14

we've tried everything, like I've I've

29:17

done a petition that was signed by eight hundred

29:19

thousand people in different

29:21

countries demanding the world leaders too

29:23

to interfere. I've done so

29:25

many, like I can't countless

29:28

interviews with media we've known with

29:30

this film. Now, I think it's in

29:32

our hand just to save the narrative for

29:34

the future, hoping that one day

29:37

accountability will happen. And

29:40

I said, now has it's controlling eighty percent

29:42

of Syria and that's it. So the only

29:44

thing is just to keep the awareness, keep

29:47

talking about it. There's countless

29:49

war crimes that has happened, there are

29:51

countless witnesses, and one

29:53

day accountability should happen. Uh.

29:56

Your Syrian heritage is obviously

29:58

important to you, how do you keep it a life for your

30:00

daughters now that you're living in London. Like,

30:03

she knows very well where she is from,

30:05

and this is the first thing. I was like, where

30:07

are you from? And she said, like

30:09

Syria and Alippo. I've showed her some

30:11

of the wedding scene and her

30:14

relationship with Nya for example, which

30:16

is Nya the little daughter which

30:18

she is in the film too. We've

30:21

tried any a lot now to keep speaking

30:23

Arabic atomb so they can still

30:25

like feel the atmosphere. She

30:28

can see a lot of pictures on the wall and

30:31

a lot of things related to Syria and

30:33

our home home. The main thing that's only

30:35

for Cem, but all the we

30:37

hope but this film will do for all

30:39

the next generation, to

30:42

save the narratives, save the history of

30:44

what what really happened in Syria, because

30:47

still the moment, most of the news, most of the

30:49

reports are about ices. Most

30:52

of the U. N and w

30:54

h O statements was all in passive

30:56

voice, that that hospitals were bombed,

30:59

words like if war in Syria, those

31:02

killing each other and all of that. So

31:04

we hoped from this film

31:06

for Cement for everyone, just to save for

31:09

the next generation that

31:12

what happened Isa was a revolution, was

31:14

peaceful people trying to claim

31:16

their rights and they

31:18

were faced with the

31:21

hardest attacks by

31:23

all the evil

31:26

triangle in the world, like Russian and the regime,

31:28

the Iranians. And that's

31:30

what we hope when she grew up, she will know

31:33

exactly where she's coming from. Is there

31:35

another film about the life you've made

31:37

now? No?

31:39

No, your husband just both

31:41

stand for us. Don't point out

31:44

camera me. No, really

31:46

we what we're trying to do more now with the

31:48

rest of the footage that I have. It's more

31:50

about trying to build a basic

31:53

um like place for

31:55

them to be used in some

31:57

low suit for court

32:00

against the regime and Russians. Co director

32:02

Edward watts hams alcateb

32:05

what sorry.

32:07

Just before everybody goes, people need

32:09

to get motivated to do something, and

32:11

we're trying to use the incredible

32:13

reaction to help make a difference in Syria.

32:16

We're launching a campaign called Action

32:18

for Samma. Are simple message that we're

32:20

beginning with is stop bombing hospitals.

32:22

That's our tagline. We could use your help,

32:24

so please follow Action for Samma. Help

32:26

us in whatever way you can thank you very

32:29

much for me. Thank you. That

32:35

was Edward Watts, what alcatib

32:38

and Dr Hams a rctibe. The

32:41

website of their organization is action

32:43

for Samma dot org. Their

32:45

movie is available streaming on

32:48

PBS. I'm

32:50

Alec Baldwin and this is Here's

32:53

the thing. Four

33:08

four