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out the link in the description below. It

2:00

kind of makes sense because it's a very simplistic format.

2:02

It's something that has been going on since 1976. And

2:06

before anyone turns away from the podcast

2:08

right now, no, we are not talking

2:10

about the history of family feud. We

2:12

are talking about the history of family

2:14

feuds, like actual

2:17

feuds between actual families. But

2:19

he also has to tell you the history of family

2:22

feuds. Yes. Okay. That

2:24

was completely necessary. I did have to actually put this in here.

2:26

The show first came about in 1976 and it

2:28

entertained viewers by pitting two families

2:31

against one another in a trivia-based

2:33

standoff for a cash prize. But

2:36

in the centuries prior to that existing four

2:38

cash, people would kill each other

2:40

and then have to pay blood money

2:42

prices to other family members. Yeah,

2:45

that was something that usually ended up

2:47

happening with long-lasting repercussions. We need

2:49

like a good old-fashioned family feud, I think.

2:52

What do you mean we need one? It would be way

2:54

more interesting if there was just like good

2:56

old-fashioned family feud. I don't- Would you say

2:58

World War II was a- or is it

3:01

World War I? World War I. Was

3:03

a family feud? World War I was a family feud between cousins,

3:05

basically. Yeah, that's- you see, we need one.

3:07

I'm joking. No, see, oh

3:09

my God. I'm just joking. Yeah, we need

3:11

another World War I. No, we need another

3:14

family feud. Maybe like a more low-key

3:16

one, kind of like the Kentucky case.

3:19

The Kentucky- you mean the Hatfields and the McCoys? Whatever

3:21

you want to call them. All right. I would

3:23

be doing a disservice right now if I

3:25

did not at least mention the Hatfields and

3:27

the McCoys. I know that for a

3:29

lot of people who are probably listening to this episode right now,

3:31

they all already know about it. And

3:33

as a result, I'm not going to go into a

3:35

lot of detail. But simultaneously, I know that if I

3:38

skip this entirely, I'm going to get a bunch of

3:40

people that are going to say and send us messages

3:42

like, oh, I had no idea what this is. How

3:44

dare you? Why did you skip this? So from

3:46

that, I feel obligated that I do have to

3:49

actually go and explain. Either

3:51

way, I'm not going to give as much

3:53

detail, but this is easily one of the

3:55

most famous, if not the most famous cases

3:58

of a family feud that would exist. within

4:00

the United States. So I may be a

4:02

little bit biased because this takes place in

4:04

Kentucky and I am actually living in Kentucky.

4:06

So this is something I feel a little bit more

4:09

of a bond towards. A bond

4:11

to a deadly family feud. Wow, that's,

4:13

that's a lot to unpack. Just

4:15

by, listen, okay, not much really happens around here

4:17

in Kentucky. Okay, nothing really does. You know that

4:20

very well, Gabby. Didn't Kentucky have- So we got

4:22

to remember some things. Blue people? Oh,

4:24

is that Tennessee? We did

4:26

have the blue people, yes. And- So apparently

4:28

a lot happens in Kentucky. I

4:31

wonder if I did a podcast episode that was

4:33

like the most inbred families in history and what

4:35

would actually pop up for that because that is

4:37

one of the members. Yes, that would, that would

4:39

definitely be one of the things. But

4:42

that is also probably something that I couldn't necessarily post

4:44

onto YouTube. Okay. Getting

4:46

into the whole story of what happened with the Hatfields

4:49

and the Corries before we go into a bunch of

4:51

other stories about other family feuds that exist around the

4:53

world. This is something that

4:55

would completely wreck, well, I don't even know

4:57

how to put this in here. It would not

4:59

wreck a dynasty because that's not the right word

5:01

to say. This is something that would happen

5:03

on a much lower

5:06

level. So what would

5:08

occur is that just 13 days after

5:10

Aza Harmon McCoy would return to his

5:12

Kentucky home in December of 1864,

5:14

this guy gets

5:17

murdered. And the

5:19

culprits behind this murder, when this happens, is

5:21

a group of pro Confederate guerrillas that is

5:23

led by a man named Jim Vance, who

5:25

despised the McCoy's for fighting in the Union

5:27

Army during the Civil War. That is

5:29

actually something that occurred all across the

5:31

United States, because there were

5:33

many certain like circumstances in which you

5:35

had families that tore themselves apart because

5:37

some support of the Union and some

5:39

support of the Confederacy, particularly

5:41

in border states like Kentucky, Maryland,

5:44

etc. That's where you would typically

5:46

see that. To make

5:48

matters worse, Vance was

5:50

actually the cousin of a man

5:52

who was known as the Devil

5:54

Ann's Hatfield, who was the head

5:56

of the very prominent Hatfield family from

5:59

neighborhood West Virginia. In the

6:01

beginning, the murder is going

6:03

to mark the exciting,

6:07

the incredibly provocative, it's going

6:09

to be the incredible incident that is going

6:11

to lead to a decades long feud

6:13

between the Hatfields and the McCoys. The

6:16

situation is only made worse and more complicated

6:18

because the families were, despite how many of

6:21

them they have disliked it, actually

6:23

connected. Because

6:26

remember, we're talking about a place

6:29

in the country where everyone

6:31

is probably somewhat related to

6:34

another, distantly, because you don't have

6:36

nearly as large of a pool to be able

6:38

to pull from, right?

6:41

So they were actually related in a number

6:43

of different ways. There was a man by

6:45

the name of Bill Stanton, who technically at

6:47

least was related to both families. So

6:50

when he was called in as a witness, when

6:52

the McCoys accused the Hatfields of stealing one of

6:54

their pigs, his testimony

6:56

was seen as being neutral because

6:58

he was related to both families,

7:01

right? Unfortunately,

7:03

the judge was not. Gabby,

7:07

do you want to guess what family the judge may

7:09

have belonged to? The

7:12

other ones? Yeah, Justice of

7:14

the Peace, Anderson Hatfield, is the one who

7:16

would ultimately rule over this thing and would

7:18

rule in favor of his family. Of course.

7:21

Wait, how would they even let that happen? Because the

7:23

judge just has a, he has a very obvious connection

7:26

to the case. Well, remember, it's back in a

7:28

time where not necessarily, there's not nearly as many

7:30

people as well, right? So you have to travel

7:32

further. It's not like it's a situation nowadays where

7:34

you could hop in your car and just go

7:36

over several counties. Like, that is something that you

7:39

have to deal with what you have locally

7:41

and everyone has local ties, right? That's what

7:43

ends up happening. Two

7:45

years later, two McCoys sons

7:47

would end up killing Stanton, the guy

7:50

who had testified against them for this

7:52

perceived slight. And in the

7:54

end though, they would argue that they hadn't

7:56

killed him to murder him. You know, they

7:58

did it in self-defense. And when

8:00

this happened, they managed to be acquitted of

8:03

that murder. Then

8:05

the saga would go and take another turn. Something that

8:07

is similar, like if you're going to compare this to

8:09

anything, I kid you not, this is straight up Romeo

8:11

and Juliet. Check this out. You

8:13

had Rosianna McCoy, who was

8:16

Randolph McCoy's daughter, and

8:18

John Hatfield, who was the son of

8:20

that guy before, the devil and Hatfield.

8:23

They fell in love, and they ran

8:25

away together. Which really

8:27

pissed off both families. The McCoys completely saw

8:29

this as a betrayal, right? And they disowned

8:31

Rosianna. But she

8:34

actually came back to the family. She

8:37

came back because, guess what? John

8:39

was a bit of a piece of shit.

8:44

He was a guy who was a, he had a

8:46

bit of a women's problem. No, not women's problem. Um,

8:49

well, he had a problem with women. And that

8:51

was that he couldn't seem to keep his hands

8:53

off of them. He was a major womanizer, right?

8:55

He was a guy who specifically

8:57

slept around. And so Rosianna went

9:00

and abandoned him. John's

9:02

does come back and tries to win

9:04

Rosianna back, but that

9:07

doesn't end up happening. Because the McCoys

9:09

go and take him hostage, leading to

9:11

the Hatfields to organize a rescue party

9:14

to try and save him. They ambush

9:16

the McCoys. They free John. And

9:18

in the end, guess what? What?

9:22

John's goes and leaves her anyway. Reasonable.

9:24

He spends the entire time trying to win her back,

9:26

and he ends up leaving her. But guess if you

9:29

want drama, if you want anything, this sounds like something

9:31

straight out of a really bad film. He

9:34

leaves her for her cousin,

9:37

Nancy. What? Yes, he does. It'd

9:39

be your own cousin. Yes, and at the time

9:41

this happens in work. But he wanted to leave

9:43

him, though. Yes, she does. But he wins her

9:46

back and then immediately abandons her, so to speak.

9:49

That's too much. Somebody should write a movie on this.

9:51

And there have been several. There have been movies.

9:53

There have been TV shows. There have been everything.

9:55

Like there actually has been. And to make matters

9:57

worse, Rosanna was pregnant. Like

10:00

does not not does that not sound like it's straight out

10:02

of a drama like a really bad

10:04

like days of our lives You know and

10:06

like oh my god, and then it turns

10:09

out the evil twin shows up pretty

10:11

much. It's our evil twin That

10:13

would just make the whole script

10:15

pop. Yeah essentially

10:18

how that happens and the

10:20

whole thing ends up coming to a head on

10:22

New Year's Eve 1888 when Cap

10:24

Hatfield and Jim Vance go and Gather a party

10:26

of Hatfield men and they set fire to the

10:28

McCoy family cabin in the middle of the night

10:31

When the McCoy's go and flee from their

10:34

home the Hatfields open fire ultimately killing

10:36

two of Randolph's children This

10:38

gets so bad that the governor

10:40

of Kentucky eventually has to step in

10:43

and dispatch Sheriff Frank Phillips to protect

10:45

the McCoy's and working together. They

10:47

devise a plan to kill Jim Vance They

10:50

capture a number of Hatfields who

10:52

were ultimately sentenced to lengthy prison

10:54

sentences Which after that I'm not

10:56

pretty much ended the feud There was literally

10:58

nothing that they could do afterwards because all

11:00

the men had been rounded up and thrown

11:02

into prison Imagine the governor having to get

11:04

involved in your family's fight. Yes. No, that

11:06

is straight up what happened Okay, the way

11:08

people fight on next door like you know

11:10

what next door is right? Yeah, like for the app

11:12

that we would use For our neighborhood. Yeah, I can

11:14

actually neighborhood the way people fight on next

11:17

door I would not be surprised

11:19

if a family feud breaks out because it

11:21

is unhinged Absolutely batch

11:23

it. Oh What

11:26

was the worst one you've seen? I'm not

11:28

gonna expose the drama on here. Okay I'm

11:30

sure everyone is listening right now for the

11:33

drama here without naming any names. Obviously. Do

11:35

you have anyone in specific? so

11:37

there's like Golf cart kids

11:39

in our neighborhood Like they let their teenagers

11:42

right around the neighborhood on golf carts and

11:44

that's illegal in our state and in our

11:46

County and in our neighborhood Like you can't

11:48

have a unlicensed minor driving a golf cart

11:51

in the street and

11:53

one person in particular is really

11:55

really pissed at the golf cart

11:57

kids and follow them

12:00

home to their house one time. Oh my god.

12:03

I get the frustration with the golf

12:05

park kits because it is a safety

12:07

issue but it was a

12:09

bit extreme and then it kind of spiraled. It

12:13

was a fun time. I love reading the drama. Oh

12:15

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14:00

just composed of Scottish ones. Absolutely, I

14:02

cut it, because this is pretty much what happens.

14:04

Scottish people don't take this the

14:06

wrong way, but every Scottish

14:08

person that I've met, they

14:11

give the vibe of they would be involved in

14:13

a bloody family feud. That's kind of what

14:15

happens with clan-based societies. You

14:17

guys just have that vibe, the attitude,

14:21

and the accent. It sounds so lovely, and

14:23

then if you get pissed, it's like, ooh.

14:28

You're not wrong, right? Like

14:30

when we're talking about a feud, there are very

14:32

few things in this world that probably describe a

14:34

feud as much as a Scottish clan. It really

14:37

does. And so the example that

14:39

I'm gonna bring up from them, because again, I

14:41

could have made this entire podcast literally just Scottish

14:43

feuds. We're gonna be talking

14:45

about the McDonald Campbell feud and the

14:47

Glencoe massacre. So many

14:50

people, still to this day, believe that

14:52

the massacre that just placed at Glencoe

14:54

in 1692, this had occurred specifically

14:56

because of a feud that already

14:58

existed, like a long-standing feud, but

15:00

it's more complex than that, right?

15:03

It is believed by many the Campbells

15:05

have decided to settle old scores by

15:07

butchering their great rivals, McDonalds and cold

15:09

blood, like for no reason. But

15:12

the reality of the situation when we're talking

15:14

about this is even worse because it's not

15:16

just a family feud. It is horribly stupid

15:18

politics that gets into it. Because

15:21

yes, the Campbells were ruthless.

15:23

They absolutely were. But they

15:26

were mere pawns in another game, something

15:28

more sinister, something that was

15:30

sanctioned by the king himself. So

15:33

here's how this whole thing went down. The massacre

15:35

that would occur was meant to be

15:37

an act of punishment against the McDonalds

15:39

for being, well, bandits,

15:41

basically, for not adhering

15:44

to the rule of the king. They didn't

15:46

want to accept the monarch's authority. But

15:49

that ended up turning into a bloodthirsty excuse

15:51

for some of the more powerful people in

15:53

Scotland to just settle

15:55

an old score that they had with

15:58

the clan anyway and crush them. them,

16:00

as well as anyone else that could potentially

16:02

be rebellious among the Highland plants. So

16:05

I'm going to set the stage here so you understand what I'm talking about. By

16:08

the year 1691, William

16:10

of Orange was now firmly on the throne

16:12

of both Scotland and England. He

16:14

was the guy who was in control. And the

16:16

last Stuart monarch, the guy from

16:18

before him, James VII and II,

16:21

they were driven to exile in France. However,

16:25

William wasn't

16:27

entirely safe here, right? They still had a problem.

16:30

See, if anyone knows the history

16:32

of Scotland and the clans, they

16:34

would understand that the Highland clans

16:36

are traditionally very unruly. They don't

16:38

exactly take kindly to people trying

16:41

to order them to do things.

16:43

And so when they had sworn

16:45

an oath of allegiance to James,

16:48

this was something that the king viewed as

16:52

hindering his ability to actually trust them.

16:55

So the king decided at this point that it was

16:57

time for a showdown, right? And he was determined this

16:59

was going to be one in which he was going

17:01

to win. What it

17:03

is that he would do is he would

17:05

try to play a smart political game. He

17:07

would decide to offer amnesty to any clan

17:10

that had gone to battle for James, provided

17:12

that they were going to swear an oath

17:14

of allegiance to him before the 1st of

17:17

January 1692. And

17:19

if they did not meet that deadline,

17:21

their entire clan was liable for

17:23

execution because they were deemed to be enemies of the

17:25

state, right? However, William

17:27

realized that his oath would have

17:29

no meaning unless James was

17:32

actually ready to release the clans

17:34

from, you know, their sworn fealty

17:36

to him. So he sent

17:38

a message asking for the exiled former king

17:40

to agree to this. And

17:43

really enough, you'd think that a king at that point would

17:45

have refused to just let what would happen happen, but no,

17:48

James actually does go and accept the

17:50

offer. But by

17:53

the time that the ambassador got back

17:55

to Edinburgh with the approval and word

17:57

started being sent out to the Highland

17:59

chiefs. Guess what time it was? It

18:03

was December 29th. It

18:06

was three days before the deadline.

18:10

Ooh, that's gonna end

18:12

well. Yeah, yeah. See, and here's

18:14

a problem. We're not talking three days before the deadline in

18:16

the modern day and age. This is something that is

18:18

occurring in the late 1600s. They do not have the

18:21

ability to travel around nearly as much

18:23

as, you know, people do nowadays. So

18:26

the McDonald's were one of the, like,

18:28

most... They were one of

18:30

the proudest. They were one of the fiercest. They were one

18:32

of the big clans of the Highland clans, and

18:34

they had supported James Jackabyte

18:37

Kos. But their leader,

18:39

Alexander McDonald, who was also known as

18:41

McLean, he realized at this point

18:43

that no matter how much they're forever, no matter how

18:46

much they fought, no matter how much it is they

18:48

did, they weren't going to be able to win this fight.

18:51

So he accepted reality and realized that he

18:53

had to take the oath. Unfortunately,

18:57

things didn't exactly work out for him because

18:59

the whole thing turned into a comedy of eros.

19:01

And this is gonna sound so dumb when I explain

19:03

this here, because it's just one of those stories, if

19:06

you know how, like, a person who's trying to do

19:08

the right thing, like if I said, oh my god,

19:10

all right, I'm gonna go and I'm going to go

19:13

to this event that I'm supposed to at four

19:15

o'clock, but then on the way I ran into

19:17

a car accident. Then as I was almost there,

19:19

it turns out that my tire

19:22

went flat. And so I got snuck. So then

19:24

I tried to get in, but then unfortunately, they

19:26

closed the doors to the event 10 minutes early,

19:28

despite the fact that I showed up because someone

19:30

decided to lock it earlier to show up. Just

19:33

all these weird, dumb little things that

19:35

could happen. That pretty much happened to

19:37

him. Because when he

19:40

arrived at Fort William to swear

19:42

his loyalty, he arrived just hours

19:44

before the deadline on December 31st.

19:47

He made it. But the

19:51

local governor, Colonel john hill did

19:53

not actually have the political authority to

19:55

receive it. Meaning

19:58

he could not do it there. He He told

20:00

McLean that the only civil magistrate in the district

20:02

who was of the level that could actually take

20:04

that oath was 74 miles away.

20:09

And so McLean set off south immediately. And

20:11

at this time, remember, it is December 31st.

20:14

It is heading into midnight. It is about to be

20:16

January 1st. And this is

20:18

Scotland. So it is freezing. And it's 74

20:20

miles away in what year? It's

20:22

1691. That's going to go well. He's heading into

20:24

1692, yes. Hopefully he

20:27

has a really good car. Nope. He

20:31

is doing it on foot and by horse, pretty much.

20:33

Yeah. In deep snow. In deep

20:35

snow, yes. And

20:37

almost as soon as he sets out, or not as

20:39

soon as he sets out, but along his way, he

20:42

ends up getting arrested by a group of Grenadiers. And

20:44

he gets locked up for 24 hours. This is

20:47

just going horribly. Yep. So

20:49

by the time that he finally arrives at the location,

20:51

it was January 2nd, right? The

20:53

sheriff, Sir Colin Campbell, didn't

20:56

return to work until the 5th. And

20:58

initially, when he even got there, refused to

21:01

accept the oath as the deadline has passed.

21:03

So he would later actually relent to this.

21:07

From all of this, when it's over, Maclean,

21:09

though he is nervous, finally believes that the

21:11

problem is over and that his people are

21:14

safe. But what he did

21:16

not know was that everything was only

21:18

just beginning for him. Because

21:21

the certificate, the thing that was

21:23

supposed to testify that the McDonald's had taken the

21:25

oath, this gets sent to Edinburgh,

21:27

to the sheriff clerk, who, ironically,

21:29

was also called Colin Campbell.

21:33

The problem then became is that

21:35

this guy, this Campbell, didn't

21:37

like the McDonald's, right? He

21:40

also at the same time didn't like it

21:42

when things were done by the book. So

21:44

to him, this unruly Scottish plan that he

21:46

already had a beef with, that he really

21:48

disliked, simultaneously was doing the worst thing imaginable

21:51

for a British official, Gabby.

21:54

He was breaching etiquette, and that simply wasn't

21:56

to be done. And so as

21:58

a result... he saw an opportunity

22:00

that he could get back at the Klan. So

22:03

Campbell goes and scrubs the McDonald's

22:05

name off of the certificate, and

22:08

then he passes it over to

22:10

the Scottish secretary, Sir John Dalrymple,

22:12

who is the master of stare. Dalrymple's

22:15

hatred of the Highland Clans

22:17

was intense, and at least

22:20

it was as bad as Campbell's. And so

22:22

he saw an opportunity from this to be

22:24

able to strike at them and achieve vengeance.

22:27

So Darrymple very quickly decided that the McDonald's were

22:29

going to be made an example of. And

22:32

on January 7th, he sent a letter

22:34

to Sir Thomas Livingston, the commander in

22:36

chief of the King's forces in Scotland,

22:38

saying that he wanted action and even

22:40

added in, and this is a quote

22:42

directly from him, quote, "'I

22:44

hope the soldiers will not trouble the government

22:47

"'with prisoners.'" Well, that's lovely.

22:49

Which means, yeah, they're not sending anyone out there

22:51

to arrest him. He's sending a message directly

22:54

implying without outright stating, I want

22:56

you to kill them. The

22:59

order was then passed on to King William, who

23:01

went and signed it, because, you know, that was

23:03

just a thing that obviously the Klan did not

23:05

meet the goals he required. So that means that

23:07

the whole thing was invalid. It's like they didn't

23:09

actually give the oath in the first place, so

23:11

they needed to be put out. Two

23:14

companies of Argyle's regiments, totaling 120 men, were

23:17

then ordered to proceed to Glencoe, where

23:19

they were supposed to await further orders. The

23:22

officer commanding them was another Campbell,

23:25

Captain Robert Campbell of Glenion,

23:28

whom, mind you if I'm gonna add this

23:30

in here, was an alcoholic that had a

23:32

particular grudge against McDonald's at Glencoe. Since two

23:34

years before, they had left a trail of

23:36

destruction as they passed through as a state

23:38

on the way back from the battle. Because

23:40

remember, England was going through a civil war

23:42

here at this time, and it wasn't exactly

23:44

a good situation. Okay, but who didn't have

23:46

a grudge against him, McDonald? Pretty

23:49

much it's the Scottish plans, Gabby, so everyone has

23:51

a grudge against everyone else. I kid you not,

23:53

that is basically what happened. It sounds like

23:55

a sorority? Yeah.

23:58

Just giving sorority vibes. Correct.

24:00

Yeah, well, okay. Less of

24:02

a sorority and more of a fraternity, I guess

24:04

you could say this. Or, wait, what type of

24:06

bad boys are so nice? Each other? What do

24:08

you mean? And that kind of happened here, but

24:10

the backstabbing is definitely something that you could probably

24:12

expect from sorority. Oh, wait, no, I'm

24:15

getting ahead of myself here by possibly spoiling

24:17

it. Anyway, moving on from that, when

24:19

the troops arrived at the Glen, they told the

24:21

unsuspecting McDonald's that they were there to collect taxes

24:23

in the area, which is, you know, that's the

24:25

thing that had to happen is you actually had

24:28

to go out physically and meet these different clans

24:30

in order to collect taxes. And

24:32

they actually had papers with them that

24:34

would prove their story, right? These

24:36

weren't real. They were merely only there as a

24:39

cover story. And so the

24:41

tradition that Highland clans have at this time

24:43

is that if someone comes to you,

24:45

like in this case, to collect taxes or anything else,

24:48

if you have a guest, a visitor, you

24:50

are supposed to show them hospitality. He

24:53

was like the clan then offered to give the

24:55

troops free board and lodging in the villages scattered

24:57

along the Glen, and they took them in. For

25:01

12 days, the troops that were ordered

25:03

to kill them would stay with

25:05

them enjoying their company. Glennian's own

25:07

niece was actually married to one of the clan

25:09

members, and he regularly would visit the pair for

25:12

a drink. Then

25:15

the order to attack, which came

25:17

directly from Derrenpool through Livingston was

25:19

passed on to the regiment. Glennian's

25:21

orders were incredibly brutal, and they were

25:24

very clear. They said, and

25:26

I quote, you are hereby

25:28

ordered to fall upon the rebels, the

25:30

McDonald's of Glencoe, and put all to

25:32

the sword under 70. You

25:34

are to have a special care that the old fox

25:36

and his sons do upon

25:38

no account escape your hands. You

25:41

are to secure all avenues that no

25:43

man escapes. They

25:46

were ready to cross them. The

25:48

worst part about this entire thing is that

25:50

the treachery, the deceit, all that, this was

25:52

going to wait until the very last minute,

25:55

and Glennian was fully prepared to deceive them.

25:57

Right? The evening before the attack, he actually

25:59

played with them. cards like with the

26:01

sons of the chief, with Alexander and

26:03

John McDonald, and he even accepted an

26:05

invitation from McLean himself to dine with

26:08

him the next day. However,

26:10

that was not going to actually

26:12

happen, because the assault

26:15

would take place just as the orders stipulated

26:17

at 5am on the morning of Saturday,

26:20

February 13th. Men,

26:22

women, and children were slaughtered as they

26:24

lay in their beds. The

26:26

attack would almost take all of the clan by

26:29

surprise. McLean himself was shot twice as he tried

26:31

to get out of bed, and he

26:33

would fall dead in front of his wife, who

26:35

was then stripped naked and thrown out of the

26:37

house into the snowstorm. She

26:39

would then later die of exposure the following day.

26:42

The soldiers were not simply content to kill as many

26:44

of the McDonalds as they could. No,

26:47

they instead set light to the houses. They

26:49

forced those who had not been murdered to flee into

26:51

the hills. And their plan,

26:53

though it was definitely simple, did still

26:56

work. Because remember, this is the

26:58

Scottish Highlands, and with the bitter cold

27:00

weather, anyone who escaped from the bullets and

27:02

the sword was very unlikely

27:04

to survive outdoors for long. One

27:07

by one, they would die of

27:09

exposure in the mountains, before they

27:11

could ever reach the safety of shelter. In

27:14

total, 38 people were murdered in their

27:16

homes, with an unknown number dying in

27:18

the snow. We just simply don't know.

27:21

In addition to that, the clan would also lose some

27:23

1500 cows and 500 horses. We

27:27

don't even know the exact amount, because everything was

27:29

burnt. And as far as

27:31

Derumpole was concerned, the massacre was

27:34

a success. It had worked. Three

27:36

weeks later, he described the slaughter as

27:38

quote, a great work of charity, like

27:41

to put them out of their misery. And

27:44

he said his only regret was that any of

27:46

the McDonalds had gotten away. However,

27:49

this is not something that

27:51

is necessarily going to go over well with a

27:53

lot of the public. And it very became clear

27:55

soon that the view that he had was

27:58

well, that was the minority one. appreciate it.

28:01

All over the country, people reacted to

28:03

the news with anger and horror, and

28:06

as people became more and more angry as

28:08

Fury mounted, the king realized, oh

28:10

god, I screwed up, this is a

28:12

major blunder. And so very quickly

28:15

what he tried to do, right? William, the

28:17

new king that is in charge, tried to

28:19

extricate himself from the mess by claiming, no,

28:21

guys, I only signed the order because it

28:23

was buried in a mass of other state

28:25

papers, I hadn't actually really read it. So

28:28

he tried to stop himself through

28:31

that. Deremple,

28:33

though, he couldn't get off the hook so easily. He

28:36

was sacked from his post, and a commission

28:38

of inquiry was established in order to investigate

28:40

the entire affair. And he

28:42

was the one who would end up taking most

28:44

of the blame, though he would never

28:46

actually end up being tried because his

28:48

accusers knew that if this guy went

28:50

to court, then the king would end

28:52

up being complicit in what was happening.

28:54

Like there's no physical way that they'd

28:56

be able to have him go to

28:59

the stand and then not reveal everything

29:01

else that had been done. So

29:04

those who were involved in the entire

29:06

business tried to deflect public opinion by

29:09

claiming that the attack was a straightforward

29:11

clan feud, something that would occur between

29:13

the Campbells and McDonalds on their own,

29:15

and that it wasn't something that had

29:18

actually been state sanction. And

29:20

to an extent, they actually

29:22

were successful through this very

29:24

day when anyone talks about this stuff for

29:26

clan feuds, when they talk about any of

29:28

these things. Many Scotsmen today believe that this

29:30

was simply a battle between two rival groups

29:33

that, you know, quite

29:35

blew up. It got out of hand. The real

29:37

story of what actually happened with Glencoe

29:40

is so much more sinister because it didn't

29:42

pull so many more state actors that people

29:44

are not aware of. And

29:46

from then on, the McDonalds and the other

29:49

clans would forever harbor a grudge towards the

29:51

king and those who carried out the actions

29:53

in his name. Their resentment

29:55

would simmer until the Jacobite Rising

29:57

of the 18th century, which would...

30:00

Then lead to everything turning into a full-scale

30:02

rebellion against the crown which Gabby

30:04

if you remember when we had seen things

30:06

for The

30:08

the god, why am I drawing the outlander?

30:11

Outlander that is literally when this thing takes

30:13

place And now

30:15

that is something that also when I'm Where

30:19

they want to be right because they

30:21

were involved in that rebellion weren't they can you

30:23

look up right now? I didn't watch very far into

30:25

that. I think I was like one season maybe

30:28

not even the entire season I got bored. I

30:30

think it's been like two years since we actually went and watched

30:32

it Can you look that up right now? You're at your computer

30:34

Can you go ahead and just type in like the outlander clan

30:36

like what actually is the name? I can't remember if it was

30:38

something that was made up or if it's based off a real

30:40

clan Well, I know her husband was

30:42

a historian studying history

30:46

Yeah, you know, it's a weird coincidence Two

30:48

major clans in the series the mackenzie clan

30:50

and the frasier of levat clan Okay,

30:53

mackenzie clan is a real clan

30:55

in scotland and their ancestral home

30:57

castle leod is widely considered to

30:59

be Galvadon's inspiration for castle leof

31:01

the home of the clan mackenzie

31:05

I just got that from audible.com. That's

31:07

the reference. Okay. Okay. All right. Well, then that

31:09

makes sense That's that's where that happens But yeah

31:11

That would be the jack of my rebellion which

31:13

we definitely need to cover that here in the

31:16

future because oh lord Was that thing a giant

31:18

mess? But for now, we will

31:20

need to move on to another topic Step

31:24

into the hidden corridors of the

31:26

past with hometown history where

31:28

every episode uncovers the untold

31:30

stories and secrets Nestled

31:32

in the streets and alleys our

31:35

own backyards We bring

31:37

history to life revealing the

31:39

extraordinary and the ordinary from

31:41

local legends to forgotten tales

31:43

But shape the communities we

31:45

know today Tune in

31:47

to hometown history and embark on a

31:50

journey through time right from where

31:52

you are Can you set the stage

31:54

a little bit so people understand what happened in? 1969

31:58

14 black student athletes were kicked off

32:00

their university's American football team for

32:02

planning a show of support against

32:05

racism. We were really protesting it

32:07

by treatment on the field. Amazing

32:09

sports stories from the BBC World

32:11

Service tells their story. We became

32:13

brothers that day when you did that

32:15

to us. We made a change. Fighting

32:18

for what we deserve. Search for amazing

32:20

sports stories wherever you get your BBC

32:22

podcasts. And

32:29

speaking of clans, besides the Scots,

32:31

there is another place where clans

32:33

and blood feuds and clan-based

32:35

war. Well, that is something that was no more than

32:38

a dime a dozen. I know. Where?

32:40

Japan. Yes, you know it. How many times have

32:42

I talked about anything with all the clans and

32:45

daimyos and all the varying family feuds that would

32:47

break out? Didn't they have? You're

32:49

a board. You think you could you die? There you

32:51

go. Yes, that is true. Everything

32:53

that we could talk about with feuds and with

32:55

clans and with everything, the single Krijinai is literally

32:58

the age of war. It is

33:00

a period of a hundred years in which

33:02

every clan was fighting each other for power,

33:04

prestige, and territory. And you can imagine during

33:06

that time period that there is a ton

33:11

of blood feuds that would arise during this time

33:13

period. And the

33:16

feud that we're going to be talking about today, though, with that is

33:18

the story of the 47 Ronin. Why

33:20

does that sound super familiar? Hey, Gabby, I want

33:23

you to look up something right now. You're at

33:25

your computer. I want you to type in

33:27

the words. 47 Ronin, Keanu Reeves. Just

33:32

just go ahead. Just go ahead. Tell me what it is

33:34

that you see. Oh, a movie.

33:36

Yeah. Wait, was

33:38

he was he Japanese? No.

33:40

Is Keanu Reeves Japanese? Nope.

33:43

Was he a Japanese character in the movie? No,

33:46

not exactly. He was a foreigner in that, but

33:48

they called him the Tengu, which is like the

33:50

the long nose one. His

33:53

nose is pretty long. Yeah. And there's the

33:55

whole thing that specifically for phenotypes and difference

33:57

between races that Japanese people typically have. smaller,

34:00

a little bit more pushed in noses while

34:02

Europeans, if you've ever seen like, if

34:05

you've ever seen any kind of depiction of white

34:08

people in anime, one

34:10

of the stereotypes that they'll put is having like a

34:12

more prominent nose. And

34:14

also the blonde, the blonde, the

34:17

blonde here, like every American character

34:19

is so blonde, like golden

34:21

blonde. Yeah, yeah, that does end

34:23

up happening. It's very weird. No

34:25

sense. Yeah, it's fascinating. I love

34:27

it. I also might be

34:30

wearing an American flag. Yes, it's true. I

34:32

love anime. It's true. It's

34:34

true. But I mean, then

34:36

again, it's Americans. We might

34:38

be wearing an American flag. Yeah,

34:40

you know, that is also true. I actually did that

34:42

when I studied abroad there first when I was when

34:45

I was like 19. I had several truths that had

34:47

American flags on them. You were feeding the

34:50

stereotype. Now they're going to think of you

34:52

next time and be like, Yeah, it was

34:54

true. Absolutely

34:57

good. Yes, I'm glad be the American

34:59

that the Japanese imagine you to be.

35:02

Yes. Absolutely. Anyway,

35:06

besides the movie with the whole thing with the

35:08

counter ease and 47 Ronin, which was actually a

35:10

pretty good movie. That was an interesting fantasy take

35:12

on the whole thing. That is just one example

35:15

of many different series,

35:17

many different shows, many different movies, plays,

35:19

books, whatever, all that are based off

35:21

the original story of the 47 Ronin.

35:25

Because I kid you not, this is literally one of

35:27

the most famous stories in all of Japanese history. And

35:29

mind you, it is a true story. Like the details

35:32

that we're talking about here sounds like it's something straight

35:34

out of a drama much in the same way as

35:36

the Hatfields of McCoy, but it is real. During

35:39

the Tokugawa era in Japan, the country was

35:41

ruled by the Shogun, which remember we talked

35:43

about that in the single Kojidai. This was

35:46

the highest military official, and they ruled in

35:48

the name of the Emperor. And

35:50

under them under the Shogun was a

35:53

number of regional lords, the Daimyo, each

35:55

of whom would employ a contingent of

35:57

samurai warriors. Now all All

36:00

of these military elites were expected to follow the

36:02

code of Bushido, which is the way of the

36:04

warrior. And one of

36:06

the demands of Bushido was loyalty

36:08

to your master, absolutely,

36:10

and fearlessness in the face of death.

36:13

So if you lost your master, one of the

36:16

customs, and we're going to talk about this here

36:18

in a second, is that you're supposed to follow

36:20

them into the afterlife, right? Like, let's say that

36:22

it's in the age of war, and your commander

36:24

gets cut down in the field of battle, and

36:26

there's no more heirs to the clan that you

36:28

would be serving. Then your

36:30

custom at that point is to literally kill yourself.

36:35

Which is not

36:38

conducive to actually being able to do much

36:40

in a war, because imagine if

36:42

every time you lost a battle, you lost

36:44

all your troops because they ended themselves before

36:46

they could actually reform in order to be

36:48

able to fight again. It

36:51

seems like a little bit of a contradiction. Anyway,

36:53

in 1701, the Emperor Higashiyama sent

36:56

imperial envoys from his seat at

36:58

Kyoto to the shogun's court at

37:00

Edo, in Tokyo. A

37:03

high shogunate official, Kira Yoshinaka, served

37:05

as master of ceremonies for the

37:07

visit. And two young daimyos that

37:09

were there, Asuno Naganori and

37:11

Ako Enkemisama of Sumono, were in

37:13

the capital performing their alternate attendance

37:16

duties, where you had to spend

37:19

part of your time in the capital

37:21

and part of your time in your domain. So

37:23

the shogunate gave them the task of looking

37:25

after the Emperor's envoys. Kira

37:27

was then assigned to train the

37:30

daimyo in court etiquette so that

37:32

they didn't embarrass themselves. Anasunil

37:34

and Inkame offered gifts to

37:36

Kira as was custom, which,

37:39

Gabi, that essentially meant that they had to bribe

37:41

the guy. Like, I'm not

37:43

even kidding. Like, straight up what was supposed to

37:45

happen is, similar to what you explained for when

37:47

someone had to do their job back in Trinidad,

37:49

like in the case of putting in the water

37:51

at one of the houses, that they would be

37:53

paid by the state. And then you actually had

37:55

to bribe them to do their job. You put

37:57

pipes in your house. It

37:59

was custom. to essentially bribe these officials

38:01

to do their job well for you,

38:03

to teach you these things. But

38:07

what would end up happening here is that

38:10

the gifts that they gave the official considered

38:12

them to be totally inadequate.

38:15

And he was angry. He was

38:17

furious. And he began

38:19

to treat the two daimyos with contempt, to

38:22

insult them, to belittle them, to

38:24

not actually help them. Kame

38:26

was so angry about this, about the

38:28

humiliating treatment, that he wanted to kill

38:30

Kira. But Asuno, Asuno didn't want

38:33

to do this. He preached patience. Because

38:36

this was something that could only end horribly.

38:39

And fearful for their lord, Kame's retainers

38:41

actually did something behind his back. They

38:43

secretly went and paid Kira a large

38:45

sum of money as a bribe. And

38:47

so the official began to treat Kame

38:49

better. But Asuno's people

38:51

didn't do that. And

38:53

so Asuno continued to be tormented until

38:55

the young daimyo couldn't endure it. And

38:58

after he was insulted one final

39:00

time, when Kira reportedly called him

39:02

a country bumped in without manners,

39:04

apparently in the main hall, Asuno

39:07

would draw his blade. And he

39:09

attacked the official. Even

39:11

though when this would happen, Kira would only suffer

39:13

a shallow wound to his head. The issue

39:15

became is that the shogunate

39:18

law, right, this strictly forbade

39:21

anyone from drawing a sword with an Edo castle.

39:24

And so the 34 year old Asuno was

39:26

ordered to commit the puku and

39:28

end his own life. Five

39:31

days later, Asuno's retainers and Akko would hear the terrible

39:33

news, and they would hold a meeting to try to

39:35

determine what needed to be done. Because

39:38

the issue was that without a

39:40

lord, the shogunate would end up confiscating

39:42

their domain. And the men

39:44

had unwittingly become Ronin, which are

39:46

samurai that don't actually have a

39:48

master to serve. A

39:50

number of options were considered including fighting back or

39:53

just committing the puku at the castle gates to

39:55

retain some of their honor. But there was one

39:57

among them that actually urged a degree of caution.

40:01

Ushi Yoshon. Ushi's

40:03

words ended up being heated, and

40:06

the castle was surrendered on May 26th, it

40:08

did not actually fight back. After

40:11

Asuna's death, the shogunate would go and confiscate

40:13

his domain, which would leave his family impoverished,

40:16

and the samurai that served it reduced the

40:18

status of Ronin. Now again,

40:20

as I mentioned earlier, ordinarily what was

40:22

supposed to happen is that samurai were

40:24

expected to follow their master into death

40:26

rather than face the dishonor of being

40:29

a after-less samurai. But for

40:31

47 of Asuna's 320

40:33

warriors, those individuals would

40:35

decide to remain alive and instead

40:37

seek revenge. So

40:39

led by Ushi Yoshon, the 47

40:41

Ronin would swear a secret oath to

40:44

kill Kira at any cost, and

40:46

fearful of just such a thing actually happening,

40:48

Kira went and fortified his home and posted

40:50

a large number of guards so that he

40:53

would be able to stop whatever potentially was

40:55

coming after him. The

40:57

Akoronin though, they weren't eager to

40:59

have things happen now, instead they

41:01

bided their time, waiting for his

41:04

vigilance to relax. To help put him

41:06

off guard, the Ronin would scatter to different domains, you

41:08

know, it's not exactly a good idea to have a

41:10

bunch of armed men that are close by in the

41:12

group because this is something that is seen as a

41:14

threat. So they scattered to

41:16

nearby domains taking menial jobs as merchants

41:18

or laborers or anything that they could

41:20

to pass the time. One

41:22

of them even went and married into the family

41:25

that had actually built Kira's mansion so that he

41:27

could have access to the blueprints. They

41:29

were planning ahead. Ushi

41:32

himself began to drink and spend

41:34

heavily on prostitutes doing whatever it

41:36

is that he could to give

41:38

a very convincing image and imitation

41:40

of a completely debased man, someone

41:42

who was just losing himself to,

41:45

well, the opposite of the samurai

41:47

way, if you will. Yes, like

41:49

the women, he had a little bit of himself. Literally,

41:52

that's what it is. Like he becomes a drunkard

41:55

womanizer. That's the whole thing. Like he

41:57

becomes something that is contemptible. No samurai.

42:00

I've used him as a legit samurai at this point. Did

42:02

he was he actually drinking? Was he acting?

42:05

Yes, no, he was doing both. He was

42:07

actually doing the thing Interesting.

42:09

It's like the equivalent of you know How some

42:11

people in order to uh get to a secret

42:13

club or something have to sacrifice something like you'd

42:15

see Oh, yeah prove you're loyal to me by

42:17

cutting off your hands and then he like someone

42:19

would do that or whatever what?

42:22

Okay, we're talking about assassins or something at that point. All

42:24

right, just think about it You know

42:27

that there are assassins and not movies

42:29

who had to prove their loyalty by

42:31

cutting off their hand and you didn't

42:33

just get that From

42:35

the movie with kiano reeves god, what

42:37

is the name of it? John wick. John wick That

42:40

was a finger. Okay. Okay, but

42:42

um Tell me that you

42:45

have actual proof of this. I just use

42:47

that as an example, right? right, here's

42:49

the thing they didn't usually use something as like a as

42:51

a uh Is a

42:53

full hand typically what would happen is that actual orders

42:55

when they have this would use yeah They would use

42:57

like a finger or what they would end up using

43:00

is a tattoo something that would actually physically mark them

43:02

A brand yeah a brand I would

43:04

just brand people if I were like a mob

43:06

boss. I feel like it'd be really fun Not

43:09

to like ask fun Well

43:12

that came out wrong fun I

43:14

mean like a not like fun as in yay

43:16

fun, but fun as in like when

43:19

you paint your room yellow You

43:21

know and you're comparing that to a mob No,

43:24

just a branding a brain. It's like a more

43:26

hardcore tattoo. That's what I mean. Like it's fun

43:29

It's different. You're quirky. You're Gonna

43:32

be a quirky mob boss Okay,

43:36

um James you can cut you you

43:38

could cut that out Oh a

43:40

little bit of unhinged commentary Well

43:43

to answer your question there gabby Yeah, he

43:45

did all the things that uh people thought

43:47

that he was he was actually heavily drinking

43:49

He was actually womanizing. He was actually doing

43:51

all this stuff because he needed to convince

43:53

people that he'd completely lost himself But

43:56

that wasn't true Even then one of

43:58

the incidents that reportedly happened during this time period is

44:00

that a samurai from the Tsotsumu Province apparently recognized

44:02

him laying on the street when he was drunk,

44:05

who then proceeded to mock him and kick him

44:07

in the face, which is a complete mark

44:09

of contempt, right? It's

44:11

reasonable. Then the

44:14

incident was actually going to occur. Oishi

44:17

was prepared at this point. He

44:19

went and divorced his wife and he

44:21

sent his younger children away in order to try and protect

44:23

them because his plan was going to come into fruition and

44:25

he knew, he knew there was very

44:27

little chance that he was going to survive. So

44:30

he needed to distance himself from his family as much

44:32

as possible so that they didn't also get caught up

44:34

in it. However, his

44:36

oldest son chose to stay with

44:39

him. And so

44:41

as the snow sifted down on the evening of December 14th,

44:43

1702, which I don't know why

44:46

all the stories that we're talking about start in December for

44:48

whatever reason, but they do, the 47 Ronin

44:50

would meet once again at Honjo near

44:52

Edo and prepare for their attack. One

44:56

young Ronin was assigned to go to Akko and

44:58

tell their tale for what had actually happened in

45:00

case they failed. The

45:02

46 would first warn Kira's neighbors

45:04

about their intentions. And then

45:06

from there they would surround the official's

45:09

house armed with ladders, battering rams and

45:11

swords. And silently, some of

45:13

them went and scaled the walls of the

45:15

mansion and then overpowered and tied up some of

45:17

the night watchmen. At

45:19

a drummer's signal, the Ronin would attack from the

45:21

front and rear and Kira's samurai were

45:24

completely caught asleep and they rushed out to fight

45:26

shoeless in the snow. They had no idea what

45:28

was going on. They had no shoes? They had

45:30

no shoes? They had nothing. They were

45:32

in their underwear. Or did they just not put their shoes on?

45:35

Because I feel like you could just take two seconds to slip

45:37

your boots on and then go out into the snow. I feel

45:39

like it would help you. No, they literally just ran

45:41

out. They didn't have any shoes. Many of them were in

45:43

their underwear. Okay, I get not putting

45:45

on a full outfit, right?

45:48

But shoes? Nope. You

45:50

got some slippers by the doors, Japan. Nope. So

45:53

that's what happened. Kira himself, the main target that

45:55

we're talking about here, he was in his underwear

45:57

and ran outside to try and hide in the

45:59

storage shed. Did it work? Initially.

46:02

The Ronin would search the house for over

46:04

an hour and eventually would discover him hiding

46:06

in a heap of coal inside of the

46:09

shed. That's so embarrassing.

46:11

Yeah. The way they were able to recognize

46:13

him from this is that the guy has a scar on top

46:15

of his head because remember from the beginning, their master had cut

46:18

him in his head and it was a shallow cut. That

46:20

scar was still there. And

46:23

so when this happened, Hoshi didn't

46:25

actually try to kill him first. Instead,

46:28

he got on his knees and

46:30

he offered Kira the same Wakizashi,

46:32

the short blade, the thing that

46:34

is typically used traditionally to commit

46:36

seppuku, that Asuno, his master,

46:39

had used to commit seppuku and

46:41

he asked the official to please

46:44

use it. But

46:46

he soon realized that Kira didn't actually have

46:48

the courage to end himself, at least, you

46:50

know, with the whole Japanese sense of honor.

46:53

And the official really showed no desire whatsoever

46:55

to end his own life. So

46:58

Hoshi very quickly just turned around

47:00

and beheaded him. The

47:02

Ronin would reassemble in the mansion's

47:04

courtyard and all 46 of them were

47:06

alive. Not a single one had fallen.

47:09

They'd killed as many as 40 of Kira's

47:11

samurai at the cost of only four of

47:13

them being wounded. And

47:15

at daybreak, the Ronin would walk through the

47:18

town of the Sengakuji Temple where their lord

47:20

was buried and the story

47:22

of their revenge spread rapidly everywhere, to

47:24

the point that crowds were gathering along

47:27

the way as they marched to their

47:29

master's grave, cheering them on. Hoshi

47:32

would wash the blood from Kira's head and

47:35

presented it at Asuno's grave. And

47:37

the 46 Ronin, you know what they did at that

47:39

point? Hang out? They just

47:41

hung out. They sat down and

47:44

they waited to be arrested. Wait, why are they

47:46

getting arrested? Because they were doing the honorable

47:48

thing. They fought for their honor.

47:50

They fought for their vengeance. They did

47:52

this. And from there, they decided that

47:54

they had met their goal. They

47:57

did what they needed to do. But in order to meet their goal

47:59

and achieve that goal, they did it. their honor, they had

48:01

violated the law. And

48:03

so while the bakufu, the military

48:05

government decided their fate, the

48:08

Ronin would end up being divided into

48:10

four different groups and were housed by

48:12

varying different daimyo of families. We're talking

48:14

about major ones like the Hosokawa, the

48:16

Mari, the Mizuno, and the Matsudaira families.

48:19

The Ronin were effectively national heroes

48:21

here because they headed here to

48:23

Bushido, they were incredibly brave,

48:26

they had showed loyalty and honor and many

48:28

people hoped that they would be freed,

48:32

given a part, but

48:34

no. Although the

48:36

shogun was tempted to grant diplomacy, his

48:38

counselors could not condone an illegal action

48:41

like they had done. You couldn't just

48:43

kill an official of the government, even

48:45

if that government's official was a corrupt

48:47

asshole like you couldn't do. It

48:50

should have been a law that was like, you

48:53

can, you know, if

48:55

the official is a corrupt asshole like that

48:57

should have been a clause in their law. Nope, doesn't

48:59

work like that, especially now how strictly they had to

49:01

adhere to it all. And so on

49:03

the 4th of February 1703, the Ronin were

49:06

ordered to commit seppuku, which was

49:08

deemed to be a more honorable sentence than just being

49:10

executed because that's what it was in the Japanese eyes.

49:13

Hoping for a last-minute reprieve, the four daimyos

49:15

who had custody of the Ronin waited until

49:18

nightfall, but there was no part. And

49:20

so the 46 Ronin, including Uishi, and

49:23

his 16-year-old son would

49:26

all end their own life. The

49:29

Ronin were then buried with their master at

49:31

the Senkuchi Temple in Tokyo, and their graves

49:33

instantly like became a site of pilgrimage. This

49:35

was something that was incredibly famous for the

49:38

Japanese. And still to this day, people

49:40

go there to actually see them. It is a

49:42

massive thing. We didn't go there. Like

49:45

no, we didn't actually. That's one

49:47

of the things that we could have gone to. Okay, when we go

49:49

back next year, that's what we're

49:52

doing. Yep.

49:54

Apparently, as the story goes, one

49:57

of the things that happened is remember that Satsuma samurai that we

49:59

talked about. beginning that had kicked Oishi in the head. Reportedly

50:02

that same samurai showed up to

50:04

his grave, apologized and then

50:07

killed himself right there as

50:09

an apology. They are a little bit, don't

50:13

take this the wrong way, gung-ho

50:15

about the seppuku. Yeah, yeah. Now some

50:17

of the aspects of the story may

50:19

be exaggerated but the general circumstances that

50:22

I've talked about are like

50:25

that is the story, that is the accepted thing

50:27

for what did in fact happen. And

50:29

the fate of the 47th Ronin,

50:31

that last young one that was sent away,

50:34

we don't really know. There's

50:36

many sources that say that he returned like

50:39

from telling the tale at the Ronin's home domain of

50:41

Akko and the shogun would end up pardoning him because

50:43

you know he was this young kid, he was a

50:45

youth and that he apparently then

50:47

lived to a ripe old age and was buried

50:49

alongside the others. But others say that he died

50:51

and others say that he just disappeared. We

50:54

don't know. Either way to

50:56

help calm public outrage over the sentence that

50:58

was handed down to the Ronin because the

51:00

shogunate realized that this was going to be

51:02

a huge popular movement, the government

51:04

would end up returning the title of

51:06

you know like the daimyo and one

51:09

tenth of Asno's land to his eldest

51:11

son. So at least he would get

51:14

something. Which is not a

51:16

perfect standard, or a perfect ending by the standard

51:18

of many western audiences but to the Japanese this

51:20

would become a legendary story. Something that would be

51:22

adapted into many plays and a ton of artwork

51:25

that still persists to this day which is why

51:27

I told you to look up that thing about

51:29

Keanu Reeves and the 47 Ronin. But does

51:31

it really count as a family feud? It

51:35

sort of does. Here's the thing, it's clamps, it's

51:37

a feud. It's what happens with this. Yeah

51:39

but where is it blood related? How

51:42

are we defining family in this episode?

51:45

Hold on, it doesn't matter that

51:47

they were related. It's a family

51:49

feud. No, we didn't call

51:51

it plan feud. It was feuds. No,

51:53

okay. Do you think the historical feuds

51:56

is the title of this? The

51:58

award-winning game show family. feud

52:00

would let a

52:02

non-family onto the show, they

52:05

might've. They might've. I don't know.

52:07

Okay, fine. You want a real

52:09

family feud? You want something that is literally just clans

52:11

versus clans and trying to wipe each other out to

52:13

a last man? No. Is that

52:15

what you want, Gappy? Is that what you want?

52:17

Not particularly. Mm-hmm. You know, one

52:19

of the things I contemplated when we were creating this

52:22

episode was I thought about talking about the Hutus and

52:24

the Tutsis. I thought about doing that, but so many

52:26

people have heard about the story of what happened there

52:28

in Rwanda, and that is also probably something that deserves

52:30

its own episode. No? Okay,

52:32

you know what? Here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna

52:34

move across the water, and we're gonna talk about

52:36

another major feud, something that would

52:38

break out in China. Oh, no. Yep. And

52:41

you know what happens whenever you talk about a conflict in China? Everyone

52:44

gets mad at you? Everyone gets mad

52:46

at me, and millions of people die. Not

52:49

now. I'm talking about in the event that we're

52:51

talking about here, because that's literally what goes down. Yeah.

52:54

It's like one of those things that you talk

52:57

about with anything in Chinese history is like, oh,

52:59

yeah, so-and-so besieged the city

53:01

in the year of whatever the emperor

53:04

casualties, 3.1 million. Okay, I

53:06

just never... What was it? Wasn't there

53:08

war with Jesus's brother? Oh.

53:12

Insane. Yes, Gabby, that's what you

53:14

mean by... Because a lot of people die. Yes.

53:17

And I was looking at this, and I was like, yeah, probably like 2,000, and

53:19

it was an unhinged number.

53:22

More people than World War I died over

53:24

the course of the Taiping Rebellion, yes. And

53:27

that blows my mind. It makes sense. There's a

53:29

lot of people that are

53:32

options that, you know, there's more people that

53:34

could die. But that doesn't

53:36

mean they should. And I think they

53:39

need to remember that when they do rebellions. And

53:41

that is actually related to the very thing that

53:43

we're talking about here, because this takes place at

53:45

around the same time period. We're

53:47

talking about the Punti-Haka clan wars, which

53:50

that guy, Hong Xiuquan, right, he was

53:52

the individual that ended up leading stuff

53:54

for the Taiping Rebellion, he was an

53:56

ethnic Haka. That

53:59

he was... ethnic hawker. Okay,

54:01

so hawker, I'm gonna need to kind of explain this

54:03

here. So the Pungtia and the hawker are two different

54:05

ethnic groups in China. China has thousands

54:08

of different ethnic groups with only some of them

54:10

being major ones and the hawker

54:12

are one of these, which their name means

54:14

something like the guests, right? Because

54:16

they were a people that over time for

54:19

the past like thousand odd

54:21

years started in the north

54:23

and steadily would migrate south. Okay.

54:25

So like guest families? Yes. It's

54:27

kind of what their name would mean or come to me.

54:29

Right. And so the hawker and

54:32

the Cantonese people in Guangdong, which were

54:34

the Pungtia there, they would end up fighting

54:36

between 1855 and 1867. And

54:39

this was incredibly fierce fighting, mostly

54:41

concentrated around the Pearl River Delta,

54:43

especially in Toishan and the Tseiyuk

54:46

counties. The war that

54:48

we're about to talk about here or the

54:50

war, since it's actually a series of little

54:52

conflicts would result in roughly a million people

54:55

dying and many more civilians being displaced. It's

54:58

going to get bad. So,

55:00

okay. First off, the cause of the war and

55:02

what exactly happened in here. I've talked

55:04

a little bit about Chinese history and like the

55:06

Ming, the Qing, the, all of the other varying

55:08

dynasties and clans. During the early

55:10

years of the Qing's conquest of the Ming dynasty

55:13

in the 17th century, there were a number of

55:15

Ming supporters that had fled to the island of

55:17

Taiwan, right? This is very important for

55:19

me to specify this in the first place. They

55:21

initially did what the actual, like in the

55:23

modern day, where you have Taiwan now with

55:26

the Republic of China versus the People's Republic

55:28

of China. They tried to do

55:30

the same thing and there they tried to

55:32

buy their strength to retake the mainland. The

55:35

Xunxi emperor fearing that the coastal people of

55:37

what is now the Guangdong province would actually

55:39

help the rebels, he ordered them

55:42

to do something of what is called now

55:44

the Great Clearance. And this, this

55:47

exemplifies the sheer strength and power of

55:50

the Chinese emperor. So get this right.

55:52

The Great Clearance was a

55:54

time in which the Chinese people

55:56

living in that area were ordered

55:58

to destroy their property. and

56:00

move it some 25

56:03

to 30 kilometers inland. And

56:06

if you did not do this, the punishment was

56:08

death. This is like – I

56:10

want you to imagine this, that there's a border war that

56:12

is going on between Kentucky and Ohio, and there's all these

56:14

people that are living in – let's say that all the

56:16

people of northern Kentucky just south of the river live –

56:19

they are native Ohioans or whatever.

56:22

And so the governor of Kentucky fears that they're

56:24

going to help the people of Ohio retake the

56:26

territory or whatever. So he

56:28

orders every person living on

56:31

the coast of that river to move

56:33

30 kilometers south of it, which

56:36

is absolutely insane. And it would take

56:38

nearly 50 years, but the rebels that

56:40

we're talking about here on the Taiwan Island were

56:42

eventually pacified. But the strip

56:44

of land that was completely empty

56:46

on Guangdong's coast, that is something

56:49

that very few people would end up actually live in for

56:51

a very long time, right? Very

56:53

few of the former population

56:55

would ever return to it. And

56:57

considering what it is that we're talking about here, it completely

57:00

makes sense as to why. So

57:02

the Guangdong governor wanted to

57:05

try and repopulate the area with

57:07

– or not that specific spot, but

57:09

the territory that remained in the province.

57:13

And in order to get people to actually move to

57:15

the area that they could, they tried

57:17

to offer land and silver to people that

57:19

were typically poorer from more overpopulated areas that

57:21

were concentrated in the cities. And

57:24

that is a really good deal for landless

57:26

poor peasants with very little opportunity, and

57:29

there were many different people that took them up on this offer. It's

57:31

a great thing for that to happen,

57:34

right? One

57:36

of the biggest groups to go and accept this offer were the

57:38

Hakka, which that is an ethnic group

57:40

that is one of the things that is

57:42

related to the Han, which is the main

57:44

ethnic group within China. Hakka does mean guest

57:47

or stranger, and they were from the north,

57:49

but over the time had migrated across various

57:51

regions of China. The

57:53

Hakka absolutely wanted to settle

57:55

at Guangdong, and they leapt at the chance

57:57

to do so. But as it turned out, they were not.

58:00

out other people had gotten there first

58:02

and so most of the land that

58:04

was actually fertile and good for growing

58:06

crops that was occupied and

58:09

the locals spoke a different

58:11

dialect but they were descendants of the

58:13

earlier people that had lived in Guangdong.

58:16

They were individuals who referred to as the

58:18

Gunti meaning people of the earth and

58:21

so since fertile lands were you know already taken there

58:23

was nothing they could really do the Hakka

58:26

didn't really have much choice they had

58:28

the horror inferior mountainous land to

58:30

try and cultivate and many of them had

58:32

never had any land at all before so

58:34

they didn't really know what to do and

58:38

as a result many of these individuals ended

58:40

up having to serve as debt slaves on

58:42

Gunti owned farms sharecroppers

58:46

sometimes these debts were so large that

58:48

entire generations of Hakka ended up having

58:50

to work on a single farm and

58:52

never moved from that point. Wow

58:55

I kid you not if you want to compare this to anything

58:58

Gaby remember when we talked about stuff with American history and what

59:00

happened after the civil war yeah like

59:02

so when it comes to all those plantations the

59:04

former slaves that after they were freed many

59:06

of them had literally no opportunities the only

59:08

thing that they knew how to do was

59:10

farm and they weren't given their own land

59:13

yeah they're 40 acres and a mule like

59:15

one of the big things that was promised

59:17

so many wait they weren't given that

59:19

some were majority were not huh

59:23

that did not happen for the majority so

59:25

what ended up happening then is that they

59:27

had to many of them had to

59:30

go back to their former masters and work on the

59:32

plantations again and sharecroppers. That's

59:34

so interesting because in Trinidad

59:36

back home where I grew

59:38

up we learned that there were given

59:41

land because like when you know in Trinidad

59:43

everybody kind of got land I guess and

59:45

you know some were that's

59:47

the thing in America some were but

59:50

after Lincoln was you know assassinated and

59:52

the next administration comes into being the

59:54

guy in charge there wasn't exactly keen

59:56

on working with free

1:00:00

freed slaves. He

1:00:02

pissed off a lot of people just to say the

1:00:04

least. We could probably do an entire episode dedicated to

1:00:07

that with what happened with the Gilded Age that would

1:00:09

follow afterwards. So was their farming set

1:00:11

up similar to what they had going on in what

1:00:13

was it Russia? And serfs you

1:00:15

could almost say that here but yeah, but they

1:00:17

weren't actually owned like the land wasn't owned sort

1:00:20

of they did or not they weren't bound to

1:00:22

the land necessarily. They just had to stay. Yes,

1:00:24

because of a debt. So technically speaking, if they

1:00:26

could pay off the debt, they could be they

1:00:29

weren't legally bound to the land. Many

1:00:31

of them ultimately ended up being which meant that

1:00:33

it pretty much was similar to slavery. Yeah.

1:00:37

The thing is though, the haka would continue

1:00:39

to grow in the area. And over time,

1:00:41

these groups would start to band together, much

1:00:44

in the same way as what happens in

1:00:46

many different places with ethnic minorities moving into

1:00:49

cities and then creating their own ethnic Anglais

1:00:51

like the Irish and the Italians in New

1:00:53

York, or like the Koreans and the Chinese

1:00:55

and places like San Diego, etc. And

1:00:59

soon enough, they were creating

1:01:01

these conglays all across the Guangdong province,

1:01:04

practicing their culture, speaking their language,

1:01:06

owning their own land. The

1:01:08

punty landowners in the beginning when all this was

1:01:10

going down, they were at first happy to use

1:01:12

the cheap labor that would come in from the

1:01:14

haka. That was fine. But now

1:01:16

is more and more and more and more of them were

1:01:19

coming in, they were starting to get a little bit nervous.

1:01:22

Because they knew that if a large enough

1:01:24

number of the haka came in and started

1:01:26

putting down their roots for good, then potentially

1:01:28

the haka could just decide to take things over

1:01:30

by force. Now, that

1:01:32

all being said, it's not just the landowners that

1:01:34

we're talking about here, punty peasants, the regular people

1:01:37

who did not own land, they had to work

1:01:39

the land as well. They saw

1:01:41

the haka as labor competitors, much in the same way

1:01:43

as when you talk about Irishman

1:01:45

like poor Irish immigrants competing with freed former

1:01:47

slaves after the American Civil War in New

1:01:50

York. I'm going to compare that a lot

1:01:52

here because it really is actually similar. The

1:01:55

haka were taking their potential job opportunities

1:01:57

and they didn't take kindly to this.

1:02:00

and that really pissed them off, which led

1:02:02

to some ethnic strife. The

1:02:05

two groups began to align against each other

1:02:07

and tensions started to grow worse, especially as

1:02:09

the population of the Hakka grew to be

1:02:11

around 30% of the overall population. But

1:02:16

for about 100 years or so, the Qing

1:02:18

government was still strong and they had a

1:02:20

strong presence, meaning that even if the tensions

1:02:22

existed, nothing was going to happen that

1:02:25

was going to cause it to boil into conflict. Until

1:02:29

another thing boiled into conflict. Of course.

1:02:32

You remember how you talked about the guy who believed that

1:02:34

he was the brother of Jesus Christ? Yes. Yeah,

1:02:36

the Taiping Rebellion sets this whole thing off.

1:02:39

See, the Taiping Rebellion was going to be

1:02:41

the spark set off the firestorm because Hong

1:02:44

Xiuquan was the individual that we're talking

1:02:46

about here who believed that he was the brother of Jesus

1:02:48

Christ and he raised a massive

1:02:51

army in the Guangxi province and

1:02:53

tried to overthrow the entirety of

1:02:55

the Chinese government, of the Qing

1:02:57

dynasty. The Taiping Rebellion was

1:02:59

so bad it weakened the chain so

1:03:01

badly and their control over Guangdong that

1:03:04

the government simply could not maintain troops

1:03:06

there, they couldn't actually do anything. And

1:03:08

because the Taiping Rebellion was inciting

1:03:11

other rebellions and conflicts across China,

1:03:13

this meant that they

1:03:15

could hardly afford to keep

1:03:17

any troops there to govern things at all. One

1:03:20

of these was the Red Turbine Rebellion,

1:03:22

which would spark a conflict throughout Guangdong

1:03:25

and the local Qing government, unable to

1:03:27

keep the peace with their own troops,

1:03:29

did something very faithful. They

1:03:32

asked the Hakka in August of

1:03:34

1854 to help

1:03:36

to raise their own military militia

1:03:38

to battle the bandits, which

1:03:41

the bandits at the time were

1:03:43

mostly ethnic Punti people.

1:03:46

And so after some initial successes in suppressing the

1:03:49

Red Turbine Army Bandits, a Hakka by the name

1:03:51

of Ma Conglong proposed to

1:03:53

the Guangdong governor, Ye Min

1:03:55

Jin, that he put together an army of Hakkas from

1:03:57

six counties to go and suppress the bandits for good.

1:04:00

good. Yie gave Mangkanglong

1:04:02

his permission to do so, and

1:04:05

Ma's army would then go and

1:04:07

raid and enter several Punti villages

1:04:09

along Guangdong. The issue was he

1:04:11

wasn't a military commander, he wasn't an

1:04:14

actual leader, he couldn't control his army,

1:04:16

and the Hakka militia then

1:04:19

degraded to looting and torching, earning,

1:04:21

and killing anyone they could find.

1:04:24

The Punti landowners saw the Hakka army

1:04:26

as being just an attempt to try

1:04:28

and seize and destroy their property, and

1:04:30

they immediately formed their own militias and

1:04:32

built forts and got mercenaries to try

1:04:34

and get revenge for their own villages,

1:04:37

and then they would do the same. This

1:04:40

would effectively spiral into a massive

1:04:42

maelstrom of violence, something that would

1:04:44

continue on for years. The

1:04:46

violence that was inflicted upon the Hakka by

1:04:48

these reprisal attacks by the Punti would then

1:04:51

cause the Hakka who were not actually involved

1:04:53

in the conflict, who were working under the

1:04:55

Punti, to stop working the land in protest

1:04:57

and stop paying rent to their Punti landowners.

1:05:00

Those landowners would in turn have to

1:05:02

turn to the poor Punti peasants and

1:05:04

recruit them and then try and get

1:05:06

revenge upon the Hakka and seize their

1:05:08

land. Hakka people

1:05:11

all across the region were seeing their villages

1:05:13

burned down to the ground, and when this

1:05:15

would happen they would retreat to the mountains

1:05:17

in the force of Guangdong. There

1:05:19

they would join up with other Hakka armies, and

1:05:21

without any kind of source of food, because remember

1:05:23

it's the mountains, they literally can't produce anything, they

1:05:26

then had to supply themselves by

1:05:28

looting and sacking nearby cities. Which

1:05:32

as you can imagine is only going to

1:05:34

continue the cycle of violence. At

1:05:36

first the Qing actually tried to stop the conflict,

1:05:39

they tried to mediate peace talks between the clans,

1:05:41

but then the second opium

1:05:43

war broke out in 1857, and the Qing government

1:05:47

had to completely withdraw because now they had

1:05:49

to deal with the Europeans as well as

1:05:51

the Taiping rebellion. The

1:05:54

Hakka-Punti clan wars would go

1:05:56

on for years with clan

1:05:59

against clan. killing

1:06:01

each other. And it

1:06:03

would finally end with the Qing

1:06:05

being able to reunify and applying

1:06:07

all of the horrible ferocity and

1:06:09

bloody ruthlessness that they were known

1:06:11

for. In 1863, a

1:06:15

group of some 200,000 bandits

1:06:17

living on what is now Bayou Mountain,

1:06:19

who are hungry and desperate, descended upon

1:06:21

the city of Guanghai and sacked it

1:06:24

and took the governor hostage. Guanghai

1:06:26

at this time was a critical military fortress

1:06:29

called Guanghai Walt City and the Qing government

1:06:31

was not going to have any of this.

1:06:33

This was no longer just a bunch of

1:06:35

farmers killing a bunch of other farmers, they

1:06:38

had sacked a major military encampment in the

1:06:40

city. And as a

1:06:42

result, the Qing would launch a

1:06:44

brutal military campaign to put down both

1:06:46

the Hakka and the Punti. And

1:06:49

this was going to be a hard thing to solve. They

1:06:52

weren't really going to be able to end the violence

1:06:54

because both sides wanted each other dead, so they did

1:06:56

something… I'm not going to say

1:06:58

unprecedented because China has done stuff like this here before, but

1:07:02

you remember what happened when the Jews

1:07:04

revolted against the Romans? How

1:07:07

they kicked them out of Israel? Yes.

1:07:10

Well, pretty much that is what China did here. The

1:07:13

Hakka were completely

1:07:15

removed from the territory. They

1:07:19

tried to remove as many ethnic people,

1:07:21

like ethnic Hakkas as they could from

1:07:23

Guangdong, and distribute them around

1:07:26

other provinces. And

1:07:28

the remaining Punti were allowed to keep their

1:07:30

land, but the devastation of years

1:07:32

of warfare had destroyed them so badly

1:07:35

that they were going to live in poverty

1:07:37

for many years after, with many

1:07:39

thousands of them having nothing and

1:07:42

being forced to flee and emigrate to

1:07:44

places like Singapore, the United States, Australia,

1:07:46

etc. That's actually where a

1:07:48

number of railroad workers in the United States

1:07:50

ended up coming from is from

1:07:52

refugees who had lost everything. As

1:07:55

a result of this, anywhere between 500,000 to a

1:07:57

million people would die. over

1:08:00

the span of this like 15 to 20 years.

1:08:03

And that is the Hakka

1:08:05

Punti, clan war. If

1:08:07

you want more information on that particular one,

1:08:09

since before doing research for this it's the

1:08:11

first time that I had actually heard of

1:08:13

this on conflict, there is a channel called

1:08:15

Asianometry on YouTube that for anyone watching this

1:08:17

I would also highly recommend the check out

1:08:19

because it's really cool and a large amount

1:08:21

of the information I have for this last

1:08:23

part came directly from that channel. It is

1:08:25

incredibly good. So my friends

1:08:28

that is the story of several

1:08:30

feuds, horrible bloody feuds throughout history.

1:08:33

And if you want to learn more then by all

1:08:35

means do some of your own research and listen to

1:08:37

other episodes of our podcast. My

1:08:39

friends thank you very much for listening this is Nzakui

1:08:41

with the History of Everything podcast. I will see you

1:08:43

all next time. Goodbye my

1:08:45

friends. Bye! Asante

1:09:14

came to TurboTax after graduating from

1:09:16

culinary school and landing a job in

1:09:19

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1:09:21

hands are full all day, every day. I love

1:09:24

it. Asante, as your

1:09:26

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