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And now, two pigeons bemoaning the fact

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Hey Frank, a little birdie told me you don't

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welcome to Wild and Crazy

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Life, the athletic presents Hogan

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We're going to consistently put players in position

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to succeed. The most important piece is we're

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going to take the North and never get

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it back. From CHG up, it's Adam Hogen.

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I don't think that this is a full

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rebuild, but you definitely have to

1:00

re-attoo your roster. From the athletic,

1:02

it's Adam Johns. Hey, what's up

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Flus? And we're going to have

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measurable ways for standards of performance,

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every single rep, every single game.

1:10

Anyways, uh, who cares?

1:12

Now, here they are, the Adams,

1:15

Hogan Johns. What's

1:17

up? Welcome in, Hogan Johns.

1:20

Just the Johns part of

1:23

the show. Adam

1:25

Hogue is just getting back from

1:27

California. Sorry, Hawaii, even better. Adam

1:29

Hogue's coming back from Hawaii. We

1:32

will be back together in Indianapolis

1:34

where Kevin Fishbane will join us

1:36

as well. But this

1:39

Hogan Johns episode, I want

1:41

to call it a special one, right? It's a special

1:43

edition, college quarterback edition

1:46

of Hogan Johns. I

1:48

am your host, Adam Johns. You can

1:50

follow me on Twitter at Adam Johns.

1:52

You can read my stuff, Kevin Fishbane's

1:55

stuff on the athletic.com. I believe the

1:58

beat writer mock draft is up. there

2:00

where I played the role of Ryan

2:02

Poles and I drafted a quarterback and

2:05

made a trade and picked

2:08

a pass rusher and made another trade.

2:10

So be sure to check that out

2:12

on theathletic.com. You can read Adam Hoag's

2:14

stuff on allchgo.com. You

2:17

know where to find us on Twitter. You know where to

2:19

find us online. Hit that subscribe button

2:21

on YouTube if you can. Tell your friends. So

2:25

this show is a special one.

2:27

We are going to go through the quarterbacks

2:31

after Cale Williams and we

2:33

have three guests to

2:35

interview basically. So this is how it's going to

2:37

work. This episode was

2:40

recorded over three days. So you'll

2:42

see me change outfits a bit.

2:44

You'll see me deal with

2:46

a cough that I've been dealing with all week.

2:49

Some nagging stuff before the combine.

2:52

But I think this is a fun episode. We

2:54

have three great guests who know Drake

2:56

May, who know J.J. McCarthy and

2:58

who know Jaden Daniels. Again one

3:01

of my favorite stories of this draft

3:03

going. I want to put that on record. So

3:06

I hope you enjoy this insight. We're

3:08

going to go in order of interviews.

3:10

So we're going to go

3:12

J.J. McCarthy, Drake May and then

3:14

Jaden Daniels. Some may tell you

3:16

that's kind of like the

3:18

back to front view of the draft

3:20

now with Cale Williams still number one.

3:23

Depending on how you want to slot

3:25

them. I'm sure that will vary from

3:28

team to team. But the insight we

3:30

have is amazing. I

3:32

want to thank all three of our

3:34

guests. But let's begin with J.J. McCarthy

3:36

where we bring in the Athletics Michigan

3:39

writer Austin Meek. Follow

3:41

him on Twitter at by Austin Meek.

3:43

That's M-E-E-K. He's covered

3:45

a very interesting season for Michigan

3:47

that ended with a national championship.

3:50

He knows Jim Harbaugh well. He knows J.J.

3:52

McCarthy well. So let's bring in Austin. Austin,

3:56

the last time that we were

3:58

together we were in the. Indianapolis,

4:00

sit next to each other in the press box,

4:02

first row of the press box of Lucas Oil

4:04

Stadium. JJ McCarthy helps lead

4:07

Michigan to the Big Ten championship.

4:09

And then I remember

4:11

talking to you about like, well, the next step. He's

4:14

got the college football playoff

4:16

and then possibly the national championship. What

4:19

changed for you when you're

4:21

looking at McCarthy, like after that

4:23

game that we saw against Iowa? Yeah,

4:27

well, you definitely did not see JJ McCarthy

4:29

at his best in that game, if I

4:31

recall, or Michigan's offense as well. But

4:34

I think over the course of this

4:37

season, and really over the course of

4:39

JJ McCarthy's career at Michigan, we

4:42

saw him really develop into

4:44

a quarterback, who

4:46

I think is ready for this step.

4:48

A quarterback who, you know, his role

4:50

at Michigan was different than it would

4:53

have been at a lot of programs.

4:55

And we can we can talk about that. But really,

4:58

he was he was exactly what this

5:01

Michigan team needed. And I think that

5:03

that came out in the in the

5:05

Rose Bowl and in the national championship

5:07

game. Michigan's offense

5:09

wasn't necessarily built around him.

5:12

But he really, you know, he really had

5:15

both the physical traits and I think the

5:17

mindset to come in and

5:19

and lead a team where the quarterback was

5:21

not going to be the focal point of

5:23

the offense. And he accepted

5:25

that he he orchestrated

5:28

the offense. He,

5:30

you know, put Blake

5:33

Corum and Donovan Edwards in in

5:35

position to succeed behind that offensive

5:37

line at Michigan and and delivered

5:39

a national championship. And I think,

5:42

even though some Michigan fans were hoping that

5:45

he would come back for his senior year, I think, as

5:48

soon as Michigan won that national championship, it was

5:50

it was pretty clear that his next step was

5:52

to go on to the NFL. So

5:55

maybe take us through that role, because I don't

5:58

know if the the draft experts

6:01

on Twitter are starting to just watch more film on

6:03

him because I think the NFL has

6:05

always been pretty high on JJ McCarthy, but

6:08

you watched every snap

6:11

of his the past couple seasons.

6:13

Like what was his role and

6:16

him not being the focal point of that offense?

6:18

Like how would you interpret that if you're evaluating

6:21

him for the next level? Well,

6:23

I think it's a tricky evaluation because

6:26

whatever team drafts him is going

6:29

to ask him to do different things than he did

6:31

at Michigan. Michigan's

6:34

offense really was built around the running

6:36

game, built around Blake Quorum,

6:39

built around that offensive line. And

6:43

the quarterback was not

6:45

asked to do everything that quarterbacks are asked

6:47

to do at the next level. So

6:50

there is a degree of projecting of how

6:52

is he going to do these things that he wasn't asked

6:54

to do at Michigan. I mean, that's the case, I think,

6:57

for every quarterback coming out, but maybe

6:59

particularly for JJ McCarthy, just because

7:01

of the scheme that he played in and

7:04

the offense that he played in. So

7:06

his job really was take care of the ball,

7:11

make good decisions when

7:13

you need to throw it, you know, when you get in

7:15

third down, be able to make a

7:17

play. And I think that's one of his real strengths is

7:20

he was great on third down this year. Some

7:23

of the off script plays he made when

7:25

the pocket broke down, some of the things

7:27

that you can't really teach. He

7:30

was excellent at that. You know, there's some

7:32

other things, maybe some things that other

7:34

quarterbacks in this class are going to be more

7:36

polished at that he's going to have to learn

7:38

on the job. So I'm guessing

7:40

that evaluators when they look at him are going to see

7:42

kind of a mixed bag. But I

7:45

think what you see is certainly some glimpses of

7:47

the ability to, when

7:50

he's asked to do more things than he was asked to

7:52

do at Michigan, The ability to

7:54

learn to do those things and eventually do it

7:56

at a really high level. One

8:00

hundred and thirteen pass attempts, that is. That is

8:02

low. For. A two

8:04

year starter the adjusted so it like you said

8:06

it takes a projection but like I'm glad you

8:08

buy up those. Third down number six I have

8:10

some from here at and they are. The.

8:13

Ridiculously good man. And so they haven't

8:15

broken down this. This page I'm looking

8:17

at hasn't broken down by by distance.

8:20

So. I third down with four to six

8:22

to go. He has to offer a

8:24

team this year four hundred eighty yards,

8:26

but it gets better. The. Further,

8:28

the the Wolverines or back on

8:31

third and third down seventy nine

8:33

ago he was nineteen. Or

8:36

twenty seven, Seventy percent of his

8:38

passes. That's for two hundred and

8:40

sixty six yards. Two touchdowns on

8:42

this team. First downs. And is

8:44

this what blows my mind? To.

8:46

Third, Down ten plus yards.

8:49

He. Was seventeen for twenty two,

8:51

seventy seven point three completion percentage

8:53

for two hundred and seventy eight

8:56

yards. For. Touchdowns: A and

8:58

twelve First down so. Like

9:01

those numbers like you saw it. Take

9:03

his through like those weren't. Were

9:05

easy throws. Was it all him as

9:07

you mentioned some some improvising yet to

9:10

do like. Take. Us through a third

9:12

down numbers of the gym. Yeah I mean

9:14

in a way. He's at his best

9:16

I think. When. When

9:18

he's improvising sometimes the you know

9:21

the routine plays where the place

9:23

that we saw him struggle with.

9:26

And the place where he's

9:28

he's just freelancing. Ah,

9:30

And try and to convert along third down where

9:32

it where some of the best place that he

9:34

made. And. So I probably the hope for

9:36

whoever drafts and is gonna be like a week

9:39

and. We. can teach him to

9:41

get better at some of the routine

9:43

things and the things he does that

9:45

you can't teach like he just got

9:47

that innately so i your i just

9:49

either playmaker that's how i would i

9:51

would describe him he's not the most

9:53

consistent quarterback in the in the class

9:55

by any stretch ah but he can

9:57

he can make the magic happen i

9:59

mean there's definitely a playground sandlot

10:01

dimension to his game where, you

10:03

know, we saw him just scramble

10:05

around back there, you know,

10:07

wave at his receivers to go deep and

10:09

find a guy downfield. And

10:12

there's certainly a risk reward calculation

10:14

with that. His decision

10:17

making I think has been a been a

10:19

work in progress throughout his college career and

10:21

will be at the NFL level as

10:23

well. But for a guy who certainly

10:27

makes some

10:29

risky throws, I think for the most part,

10:31

he took care of the ball pretty well. It's

10:34

just the stress that he puts on a

10:36

defense, I think, with his ability to make

10:38

any throw with his mobility, his ability to

10:41

get out of the pocket, the run threat.

10:44

And then I think just the, you know, the courage

10:47

to take the shot. There's throws he made that a

10:49

lot of quarterbacks wouldn't even try to make. But

10:52

but he'll, he'll make that throw and a lot

10:55

of times he'll complete that throw. And I think

10:57

that upside is part of what's going to be

10:59

really, really appealing for him at the next level.

11:01

He's got a couple like

11:04

ridiculous throws on tape. Everybody remembers

11:06

the Ohio State one, like just

11:09

speaking of pure arm talent.

11:12

What do you make of it? Like what have you seen in the past

11:14

couple years? Yeah, I think he can make

11:16

every throw. I think that's one of the things that's going

11:18

to separate him is, you know, he

11:20

can he can throw from one hash mark across the

11:23

field and get it there in a hurry. He can

11:25

put it in a really tight window as he showed

11:27

with that throw against Ohio State. I mean, that was

11:29

like a six inch window. And

11:31

he he squeezed that ball in there and Roman

11:33

Wilson. So you see

11:35

him make every throw I think that he'll need

11:38

to make at the next level, you know, his

11:40

accuracy on the deep ball I think can

11:43

get better. And like I said, sometimes

11:45

it's the routine throws that he'll miss. And you

11:47

know, he can make those throws and it's a

11:49

little bit a little bit puzzling

11:51

maybe why he's not more, more consistent

11:53

with some of those throws. But I

11:55

Think what people will see when they when they watch his

11:58

film is that. His

12:00

you've got an electric arm he he can

12:02

he can make the throws is just a

12:04

matter of maybe some things mechanically. To

12:07

sort out. Footwork, All that

12:09

stuff trusted to be more consistent. So

12:12

when I was doing this this quarterback series

12:14

he was like the third quarter back match.

12:16

And everyone's that when I talk to scouts

12:19

Renelique of course here because he killed Williams.

12:21

You have to was Cedric May Elena Thirty

12:23

am I got. Was. Jj. Mccarthy's

12:25

so like I guess the question

12:28

I have for you is. Does.

12:31

Ah, but this does. Michigan do what

12:33

is done the past couple years, especially

12:35

this year. When. He the

12:37

national championship going undefeated. Without.

12:40

Jg Mccarthy's could a have done that with

12:42

a different quarterbacks are as he just like

12:44

the perfect. Person.

12:47

Quarterback leader needed for this team. Yeah

12:50

I mean. I. Would go back to

12:52

when Michigan played Georgia in the in

12:55

the Orange Bowl. After the twenty twenty

12:57

one season that was Jj his freshman

12:59

season and Michigan starting quarterback is Kate

13:01

Mcnamara and there was a discussion that

13:04

season when Jj was a freshman as.

13:06

Do. You do? you stick with paid?

13:08

Mcnamara's an older quarterback and a little

13:11

more polished. Or do you just throw

13:13

the young guy out there and and

13:15

let him played? Ultimately that season Jj

13:17

was was the backup. He was a

13:19

situational quarterback. He came in as as

13:21

a runner at times. But

13:24

I think after that season michigan like that it's

13:26

team and said. Before. Going to

13:28

win a national championship, we have to

13:30

get more dynamic a quarterback and we

13:32

have that guy on our roster. It's

13:34

it's. Jj Mccarthy and so can Mcnamara.

13:36

Ended up transferring the to Iowa they

13:38

had a quarterback competition going into that

13:40

season the Jj. Mccarthy one and I

13:43

do think that ultimately the reason Michigan

13:45

was able to win that national championship

13:47

was because they had a playmaker at

13:49

quarterback even if they didn't ask him

13:51

to do that every single game. The

13:53

other one at Penn State game. Running.

13:55

it thirty two times in a row jersey mccarthy

13:58

was was banged up in that game So

14:00

he was hurt, right? Like there was an injury?

14:03

He was, yeah. Yeah. And

14:05

what exactly the injury was, we never quite

14:07

found out. But what

14:09

I heard is he was pretty significantly banged up at

14:11

the end of the season. And that

14:13

did impact his numbers at the end of the year,

14:15

which weren't as good as his numbers at the beginning.

14:19

But what Michigan really needed, I think, to

14:21

be able to ultimately win the national championship

14:23

was a quarterback who could make a play

14:25

when they needed their quarterback to make a play.

14:28

And they didn't need that every game. They didn't

14:30

need that as much as some other teams maybe

14:32

leaned on their quarterbacks to be playmakers. But

14:35

just having that guy and knowing that he could do

14:37

it, I think, was the difference for Michigan,

14:39

ultimately, to get over the hump and win the

14:41

national championship. You mentioned him being a young guy.

14:44

He was a young guy throughout his success,

14:46

especially if you compare him to the other

14:49

quarterbacks or some of the other quarterbacks in

14:51

this draft class. He was 20, 20 years old. Some

14:54

of these other guys were 23,

14:56

grown adults, can

14:59

legally drink and whatnot. What do

15:01

you make of that? For someone who

15:03

covers college sports, what do you make of his

15:05

success being under

15:07

the legal

15:09

drinking age for all of it? I

15:11

think his makeup and his mental

15:14

maturity is probably higher than a

15:16

lot of other quarterbacks at that

15:19

age. I think one thing that's

15:21

going to come out every team that talks to him, everybody

15:23

who gets a chance to sit down with him, he's a really

15:25

mature guy and has a really, I think, mature

15:30

perspective on the game, on

15:33

his role. Hey, there's a lot

15:35

of quarterbacks who I think would have

15:39

felt like maybe they were being held back in

15:41

Michigan's offense and would have been like, I can

15:43

be a top 10 pick. I

15:45

got to go somewhere where I can show that off. You

15:49

never got that from JJ McCarthy. He seemed

15:51

to understand the big picture of what Michigan

15:53

was trying to do. He seemed to understand

15:56

his role. He Was in a really

15:58

tough situation with A... Competition

16:00

with a veteran quarterback who you

16:02

know? frankly, I don't think. He.

16:04

Felt real happy about the situation of

16:06

this five star freshman come in and

16:08

trying to take the job. Ah the

16:10

team really easily could have been divided

16:12

by that and I think a different

16:14

personality in in Jj Mccarthy shoes may

16:17

not have handled that as well as

16:19

he did. So I think the youth

16:21

probably shows up in some of the

16:23

decision making ah I'm sure some of

16:25

the ways you watch him and and

16:27

you see that he still pretty raw

16:29

as a player. But

16:31

I think in terms of his his

16:33

personality. And. His ability to

16:35

ah to lead a team even though

16:37

he is really young. I.

16:39

Think he's gonna check that box for lot of

16:42

teams. I think they're going to sit down with

16:44

him and be like your This guy has your

16:46

like between the ears he has. He has the

16:48

right stuff to be able to arm to be

16:51

a a an Nfl starter as he gets all

16:53

of the other pieces in place. So those intangibles

16:55

that you hear about all the time. Like.

16:58

To use Are there for real like

17:00

this is. This is part of his.

17:02

Goes. Make up his part of the

17:04

Nfl devaluation and like these intangibles will

17:06

carry over they they are for really

17:08

everything Jim Harbaugh saying about him. Like

17:12

buy. Into it because there's some. These.

17:14

Are valid. Yeah. Yeah, I think

17:16

so. I mean every every team is

17:19

gonna way that differently. And how much

17:21

value they place on? That's how much

17:23

value do you place on the fact

17:25

that he was twenty seven and one

17:27

as the starter? Know that's not just

17:30

the quarterback, stat right? That's that's the

17:32

whole team. But as a. The.

17:34

Other certainly is. Some.

17:36

Validity to the fact that.

17:39

I'm The personality of the quarterback

17:41

goes a long way in. And

17:44

being able to win over

17:46

seem and lead a team.

17:48

And and I think Jj

17:50

Mccarthy has those qualities on.

17:53

The I think he's got a little

17:55

bit of like the Tom Brady I'm

17:57

mindsets. certainly not. Did you know. The

18:00

activities gonna be Tom Brady. Ah

18:02

but I think he models himself

18:05

after Tom Brady and away on.

18:07

You. Know, he says he's a kind

18:10

of a deep thinker A oh

18:12

he. he's pretty insightful about on

18:14

his own approach. your takes really,

18:16

really meticulous care of his body

18:18

and his mind on the kind

18:20

of things that. Are. Gonna gonna

18:22

potentially set up a quarterback to have

18:24

a good three or so. Ah, I

18:26

do think that he's got a lot

18:28

of those. Those. Qualities that when

18:30

you when you put it together with the

18:33

rest of the package the the arm talent

18:35

in the athleticism. I think that all that

18:37

points to a guy who. As

18:39

as as a really promising future but also has

18:41

some things he's he's gonna have to really work

18:43

on their own as you buy some of those

18:45

things. Yes, we're going on, but like. Is

18:48

extensive. Everything you just said. Everything

18:51

that Jim Harbaugh said about him.

18:54

As it is by glowing

18:56

praise. From like to start

18:58

to to the finished it. Did.

19:00

You ever like roll your eyes at it or.

19:03

I know coaches suck up their players but

19:05

like how real. Was. That

19:07

it felt so heartfelt at times least

19:09

when I'm watching it. Their Lucas Oil

19:11

Stadium like as as felt real to

19:13

me. at least in that moment I

19:15

read a bunch of it. There's so

19:17

much of it. Like. What's

19:19

the best way to interpret Jim

19:22

Harbaugh as. We're. Going praise of

19:24

him throughout the two years. Yeah,

19:27

I think you have to understand the

19:29

relationship there with Jim Harbaugh and and

19:31

Jj Mccarthy of the relationship between Jim

19:33

Harbaugh and as his quarterback. Is.

19:35

Always gonna be a unique

19:38

relationship. And I think,

19:40

particularly with those two guys, it was

19:42

a a unique relationship Any Jim Harbaugh

19:44

saw a lot of himself. In.

19:46

Just say Mccarthy he He compared the

19:48

to it. at times you know talked

19:50

about how there were things that Jj

19:52

did on the field that reminded Jim

19:54

Harbaugh of himself. As a player

19:56

I think the competitive make up. Of

19:59

Jj. Mccarthy. I'm really.

20:01

Jim. Harbaugh really connected with that.

20:03

So yeah, there were times it's

20:05

it's it's sometimes felt a little

20:08

bit over the top. On

20:10

your like when Jim Harbaugh talking

20:12

about Gg Mccarthy is as the

20:14

best college quarterback in Michigan history

20:17

On. Your maybe was

20:19

maybe wasn't on. I. Think

20:21

a lot of that was just Jim Harbaugh.

20:24

You. Pouring confidence into his

20:26

quarterback and making sure that

20:28

Jj Mccarthy understood. How

20:30

much Michigan and was Jim Harbaugh valued

20:32

the things that he does on the

20:34

field. So. It

20:36

was with it, real ice. I think that

20:39

it was real in the sense that part

20:41

of what I'm. Part. Of what

20:43

may, Jim Harbaugh and in this Michigan team

20:45

successful as does that level of belief. That.

20:47

They all had and each other and

20:49

maybe somebody looking at it from the

20:51

outside. Your it. It. Looks

20:54

a little weirder, you know, maybe

20:56

a little bit like embellished on.

20:58

But. It's this is kind of a matter

21:01

of perspective, I think, and I'm certainly from

21:03

the perspective of Jim Harbaugh Us if you

21:05

asked him. He

21:07

would. He would probably take to see Mccarthy's his

21:09

quarterback in a heartbeat. His: you've got a quarterback

21:11

in Los Angeles so he's He's probably not in

21:14

the market, but if he was in the market

21:16

I have I think there would be is a

21:18

pretty good chance that Jj Mccarthy would be would

21:20

be blamed for Jim Harbaugh. I saw schools go

21:23

to this question marks like I would you list

21:25

them how I would you rank I'm is it.

21:28

Does. His business decision making is it's the

21:30

lack of pass attempts as a not been

21:32

the focal point like if he had to

21:34

give me. Yours.

21:37

Three, most. Important

21:40

concerns about it like or to your three concerns

21:42

about and like, what would they be? Yes,

21:46

probably. The. Ability to

21:48

to process. The game

21:50

at at a really high level.

21:53

Process quickly on make all the

21:55

reads. The I am not

21:57

a i'm not a scout. So yeah, I'm

22:00

My perspective on this is maybe a little

22:02

bit limited, but. I think

22:04

that probably. When. He gets to

22:06

the next level he's just gonna have to.

22:08

ah, it's gonna be a lot more complicated

22:11

for him. Than. It was at Michigan.

22:13

he's gonna have to be able to

22:15

really read the field, read the defense

22:17

are not rely maybe on his athleticism

22:19

or his is pure arm talent as

22:21

much as he did. At

22:23

Michigan ah you're there's definitely some times

22:26

the that he may be would. You

22:28

know, his first read as an Open: he bailed on

22:31

the pocket. And he's such a good athlete at the

22:33

college level that he could make a play. Ah, I

22:35

don't know that he'll be able to do that as

22:37

much in the Nfl, so he's probably gonna have to.

22:40

Erase as every rookie quarterback houses use

22:43

is gonna have to arm adapted the

22:45

speed of the game and and be

22:47

able to read all of the complicated

22:49

stuff that the he seen back there

22:52

are so I think it's that. I

22:54

think it's it's some mechanics and just

22:56

making sure like he's he's always put.

22:58

Himself in position on.

23:02

You know, his eyes. c. O

23:04

that lined up on. You

23:07

know, an endless. Like there's

23:09

There's a handful of throws, I think. That

23:11

when people go back and look at a season. There's.

23:13

A handful of rose you'll look at and you just. Cannot.

23:16

Was your what was he What with the

23:18

sea and on that throw in what you

23:20

see, what he's capable of and he plays

23:22

of such a high level. None of that

23:24

are just will be someplace where you can

23:26

tell that something with went haywire with the

23:28

process and you're not exactly sure what it

23:30

was but I think it has. his coaches

23:32

are going to figure that out. On to

23:34

all of it. to me is is tractable

23:36

but but it is Simpson it's probably gonna

23:38

take him some time. Would you be surprised

23:40

if he stops him Big. Arm.

23:44

Maybe a little bit, but not not

23:46

super surprise. I mean, I.

23:49

Think your first. Half

23:51

of the first round would would

23:54

not stop me on. I

23:56

mean look, quarterbacks, Quarterbacks:

23:58

on are always gonna go

24:01

higher than, you know, you

24:03

maybe think they should when you

24:05

watch them as college players, right? And

24:08

especially, you know, when you watch a guy every

24:10

single day, every single game,

24:12

like, you know,

24:15

I've seen way more JJ McCarthy than

24:17

any other college quarterback. So I've

24:19

seen the good, I've seen the bad. I

24:22

think, you know, I think there's probably a lot of good

24:24

that I saw from him that maybe

24:26

people didn't see if they just

24:29

watched, like, the Rose Bowl or

24:31

the Big Ten Championship game. You

24:33

know, there's also some stuff I

24:35

saw that, you know, probably

24:37

is something that's a red flag or

24:39

at least a concern for NFL

24:42

people. But,

24:45

you know, I think the whole picture is a guy who just

24:48

has such a high ceiling and is so early

24:51

in the development curve compared to some

24:53

other guys that I would not

24:55

be surprised at all if there's a team that's like, hey,

24:58

this guy's already really good and he's really young.

25:00

And we think that he's got even another level

25:02

that he's going to get to pretty quickly. And

25:05

if that means he goes in the top half of the

25:07

first round, I wouldn't be shocked by that at all. So

25:10

at the very least, you see him as a young

25:13

quarterback, probably the youngest. He

25:15

is the youngest of at least the top five

25:18

or six. At

25:20

the very least, weren't the first round pick at some point?

25:24

I think so. If a team needs a

25:26

quarterback of the future and they're

25:29

willing to be patient with him, I

25:32

think that that could be a really good situation

25:34

for him. Again, if you're thinking he's going to

25:36

be your day one starter, you know,

25:39

that's certainly a gamble. I think there are other

25:41

other quarterbacks in the class who would probably be

25:43

safer picks to come in and start

25:45

right away. But

25:47

if you're looking at him as a guy that you're

25:49

really drafting for the long term and you

25:51

feel like you've got a good team around him, similar to

25:54

the way Michigan put a really good team around him and

25:56

you're willing to be patient and develop him,

25:59

then... I mean, a

26:02

quarterback of the future, like if you

26:04

got a chance to draft that guy,

26:06

then you draft him. Like, you

26:08

know, first round, wherever your pick is, if you think

26:10

he's your quarterback in the future, then you take him.

26:13

And I won't be surprised if there's a team that

26:15

looks at JJ McCarthy and thinks that's what he's gonna

26:17

be. Austin, man, thank

26:19

you. Great stuff, it's good to see you again.

26:22

They had to be an awesome run just to

26:25

cover and Michigan kept you very,

26:27

very busy for a lot of

26:29

reasons this year. But thank

26:31

you, my friend. Be sure to check out

26:33

Austin's work on the athletic. You can follow

26:35

him on X at my

26:37

Austin Meeke, that's M-E-E-K. Thank

26:40

you, man, we'll see where JJ goes. All right, man,

26:42

thanks for having me on, I appreciate it. And

26:45

now two pigeons bemoaning the fact you

26:47

can stream direct TV satellite free. Hey

26:49

Frank, a little birdie told me you

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don't need a satellite dish to get

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direct TV. What's little birdie? What's a

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Jimmy the Sparrow? It's a figure of

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speech. The point is you can stream

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direct TV over the internet now. Oh sure,

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As you've probably heard by now, we've teamed

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27:58

Call 8778-HOPE-NY. Let's keep

28:30

this going. Our next guest is

28:32

Brendan Marks. He's the athletics North

28:34

Carolina writer. It's more than

28:37

basketball too. He's on Twitter at

28:39

BrendanRMarx. That's R-Marx M-A-R-K-S. Fantastic

28:44

stuff on North Carolina's basketball team, but

28:46

also had a fun

28:48

quarterback to cover the past couple years in

28:51

Drake May. So let's bring in Brendan Marks

28:53

from the athletic. Brendan,

28:55

I have to begin with this because I feel

28:58

like we just have to get, just

29:00

get it out of the way. Please

29:02

tell everybody that's listening

29:04

or watching us on YouTube right now why

29:07

Drake May is different

29:09

than Mitchell Trubisky. Yeah,

29:11

I hear this one a lot, especially

29:13

from fans of teams that might be drafting Drake

29:16

and are very afraid of how Mitch Trubisky turned

29:18

out. I think the biggest thing you got to

29:20

start with is experience. You know, Drake started almost

29:22

twice as many games as Mitch did in college.

29:24

And, you know, really Mitch was a backup for

29:26

two years behind Marquis Williams and sort

29:28

of lost the starting job the year before he

29:30

did ultimately start for North Carolina versus Drake, who

29:33

came in was obviously seen as the successor to

29:35

Sam Howell straight away. And I

29:37

had time to sit and learn understanding that he

29:39

was going to be the likely started going into

29:42

the next season. So the experience thing, I think

29:44

you can't really understate. And like

29:46

the hype started last year, even like, like

29:48

Trubisky was just like one year of hype.

29:51

Like Drake May going into this

29:53

last season was considered top

29:55

five material, maybe top overall pick material. Yeah,

29:57

he was. And honestly, if you go back...

30:00

to high school. I mean, this is a guy

30:02

who was originally committed to Alabama, right? And so

30:04

he had that pedigree even going back that far.

30:06

And, you know, I know we'll talk more

30:08

about Sam Hall in a bit, but for UNC fans,

30:10

Sam Hall was like as good as it gets at

30:12

the quarterback position. And then you have the idea that

30:14

there's this guy behind him who might be even better.

30:17

So that hype with Drake, I think he also had to handle

30:19

it for for not just more than a year, but a couple

30:21

of years. So okay, so how is he

30:23

different than Sam Hall? At one

30:25

point, Sam Hall led the league in

30:28

passing yards last year.

30:30

Well, as an NFL quarterback for the

30:32

Washington commanders and here, Washington again, potentially

30:35

looking at Drake May at number two. So

30:37

how are they different? Yeah, well,

30:39

you know, obviously, Drake stature wise is

30:42

much bigger than Sam was much more

30:44

of a prototypical passer. You know, Sam

30:46

was maybe generously listed at six foot,

30:49

six foot one. I mean, I remember talking to

30:52

UNC's old offensive coordinator Phil Longo in his

30:54

office. And you know, he's saying he hears

30:56

all these drew Brees comparisons, Baker Mayfield comparisons,

30:58

because that's the size Sam was. I think

31:00

the other thing with Sam was he came

31:02

in and was coming into such a bad

31:04

situation. You know, Mack Brown had just been

31:06

hired again, the roster was basically

31:09

completely void. I mean, the year before, North

31:11

Carolina starting a guy Chas Arat, who's been

31:13

playing linebacker in the NFL, they

31:15

were starting him at quarterback. So Sam came into a

31:17

completely empty cupboard and has to do a little bit

31:19

more of everything. Drake did at least

31:22

have some infrastructure around him when he took

31:24

over the starting spot. Obviously had Josh Jones,

31:26

who's now doing killing it with the Indianapolis

31:28

Colts. So Drake, I came think came into

31:30

a better situation was better poised to take

31:32

advantage of it. I know you haven't seen

31:34

like every game or every snap of Drake

31:36

may there's you have other things to cover

31:38

in North Carolina, including a basketball team that

31:41

seems to be good every single year. But

31:43

like, how would you

31:45

sum up the

31:47

experience in terms of here's

31:49

this prospect again committed

31:51

to Alabama like, were

31:53

expectations expectations met? Did

31:56

he fail in a certain capacity? Like, how would you

31:58

sum it up for us? Yeah,

32:00

you know, I think probably

32:02

unfairly to Drake, his

32:04

tenure in Chapel Hill is going to be considered as a

32:07

bit of an under an underwhelming experience.

32:11

Essentially, you've got a guy who could be the number

32:13

one pick in the draft and two years in

32:15

a row when he was the starter, the team fell

32:17

apart down the stretch. You know, his first season as

32:19

a starter, UNC starts nine and one finishes four

32:21

and oh, you know, loses every game

32:24

of consequence down the stretch last year starts six and

32:26

oh, finished two and five only beat one FBS team

32:28

over the last month and a half of season. And

32:31

a lot of that is because he had

32:33

to be Superman. I mean, North Carolina's defense

32:35

has been one of the worst in the country the past couple

32:37

of years running, running

32:39

game hit or miss. This

32:42

year was obviously much better with the Marian Hampton, but

32:44

he really had to kind of do everything for North Carolina

32:46

to even have a chance in these games. It's how you

32:48

see these stat lines where he's got 40, 50

32:51

passing attempts. But

32:53

the fact that North Carolina could not win more

32:56

with a guy who was this good, I think,

32:59

you know, probably unfairly, it's going to taint the way

33:01

that people in Chapel Hill remember him. It's

33:04

kind of like a what if back to back

33:06

with Sam Powell and Drake May, you have to,

33:08

you know, starting caliber NFL quarterbacks and you don't

33:11

really accomplish anything of note. So it's

33:13

a tough balance for North Carolina because I think they realize

33:15

how good Drake is, but they're not going to see the

33:17

best of many UNC uniform. I got a what if for

33:19

you and I love that show. I don't know if you're

33:21

a fan of Marvel, but I like

33:23

the show they have. So

33:26

here's a what if for you. What if Drake

33:30

May stayed at Alabama? Like, are

33:32

we talking about him

33:35

being QB1 over Caleb Williams, maybe at

33:37

this point? I know it's maybe

33:40

a crazy hypothetical. It is a what

33:42

if, but just given where he

33:44

is right now, I mean, what if he

33:47

stayed at Alabama? Like, what do you think we'd be talking

33:49

about right now? Yeah, well, you

33:51

know, for starters, I think you would have

33:53

been talking about Alabama potentially last season, having,

33:55

you know, in 2022, maybe having back to

33:57

back Heisman winners. would

34:00

have been a realistic expectation for Drake coming

34:02

in and having the skilled talent

34:04

that Alabama does, especially having the offensive line that

34:06

Drake does, that Alabama does.

34:08

Drake is working behind an offensive line that

34:11

no disrespect to what they're doing at UNC, but patchy

34:14

or leaky might be a little bit of a

34:16

generous interpretation. And that wouldn't have been the case

34:18

in Alabama. He wouldn't have had to score 40

34:20

points a game to just keep his team

34:22

in games like he had to do at North Carolina. So

34:25

I do think you're probably talking about it. I

34:27

wonder if he, I don't know that

34:29

he would have surpassed Caleb. I think that

34:32

certainly it would be much more of a pick your

34:35

poison kind of conversation versus now the

34:37

national landscape, it seems, at least somewhat

34:39

established with Caleb as the

34:41

unquestionable number one guy. I think that if

34:43

you put a little more around Drake, he

34:46

would have had probably even better production than he already did.

34:48

And he was a Heisman finalist in the first place. So

34:52

it's tough to say. The other, it could be the flip side of

34:54

things too, if he's asked to do

34:56

less, maybe he doesn't have to do as much. Maybe

34:58

he doesn't have the Gotti stats. Yeah, I hear you.

35:02

The last time we talked a bunch

35:04

about Drake May, I was going down to

35:06

Chapel Hill myself to go

35:09

see him play Duke, which had, well,

35:11

at that time in the season, one of the

35:13

better defenses in the league, the Drake May hype

35:15

was just starting to get, to really get

35:17

going, I thought, this year. And

35:20

then I covered a game where I was

35:22

a double overtime or triple overtime. But

35:25

it was an amazing game where he had to kept

35:27

coming back and coming back. He had a scramble,

35:31

or was it a design run? Either way, he's running

35:33

the ball, he's getting tackled, and he pitches

35:36

it back to a guy for more

35:38

yarders. He keeps firing away down the

35:40

field, long completion after long completion. I

35:43

was impressed leaving that game and talking

35:45

to people who worked for North Clay

35:48

at the time. That press box was filled with

35:50

more NFL scouts and

35:52

executives at that point in the

35:54

season. They've never

35:57

experienced anything like that. So what

35:59

strikes you? about his on-field talent, his

36:01

potential. Yeah, so I

36:03

mean, I think one of the things you're hitting

36:05

at there is like that never-say-die mentality. North Carolina

36:08

is a team that should not have been in

36:10

half of the games that it was in the

36:12

last two seasons with Drake May as the starting

36:14

quarterback. And strictly because of him, it's one

36:17

of those things where you never

36:19

believe you're fully out of the game because

36:21

he always seems to have some sort of

36:23

hero play. And to go back to the

36:25

differences between him and Mitch Trubisky, Drake is

36:27

so much more of an athlete, so much

36:29

more of a weapon as a runner. I

36:31

mean, North Carolina really utilized him in some

36:34

RPO games. They really utilized him like you're

36:36

talking about on designed quarterback runs. And then

36:38

the scrambling ability, like when you needed

36:40

a play, there was always this sense that Drake May was going

36:42

to get it, no matter if, kind of like Patrick Mahomes

36:44

in the Super Bowl, didn't matter if he just had to keep

36:46

it himself, he was willing to do that. In

36:49

terms of his passing talent, his

36:52

ability to see the entire field, I think, especially

36:54

for North Carolina fans who haven't seen that kind

36:56

of quarterback play, was pretty exceptional.

37:00

Sam Howell's a guy who really got a lot of credit

37:02

for his deep balls and his touchdown there. Drake's ability to

37:04

layer it at any level, really,

37:06

really special, special talent. I

37:09

was impressed by how he's tall,

37:13

he's lean, but he's faster than he

37:15

looks. And he gains yardage

37:17

faster than you think he is. Before you

37:20

know it, he has a first down. I think

37:22

it was Dame Bruiler had the stat just in terms of

37:24

like third and fourth down runs, that

37:26

of all the top quarterbacks, he

37:29

leads them in that category just in terms

37:31

of converting first down. So that

37:33

stood out to me just in terms of an athlete. I

37:36

think what you said is pretty notable because Mitch, when

37:38

he got to the NFL, his legs were

37:41

an asset, but you're seeing a lot more of that

37:43

from May and most instantly as a

37:45

college quarterback. Right, and comparatively, North

37:47

Carolina used Sam Howell somewhat similarly his

37:49

last season as a starter after Javante

37:51

Williams and some of those guys had

37:53

gone off to the NFL. But

37:57

with Drake, the frame, you're so much less worried about

37:59

the injury risk. Like for Sam being six foot,

38:01

it was kind of like, oh boy, like can he,

38:03

you know, and Sam Howell takes a lot of sacks

38:05

as is, it was like, can he continue to take

38:07

those hits? But Dranklestick his nose in there and that,

38:09

like you said, he's faster, he's bigger than you would

38:11

think that he would be. You

38:14

know, I know we get a lot of Justin Herbert comparisons and

38:16

we'll get into that, but he

38:18

really is a sneaky, sneaky good athlete, not

38:20

to rely on those buzzwords or whatever. Yeah,

38:23

for someone who is entrenched in,

38:25

well, in Jappa Hill there, like,

38:28

can you detail like how like

38:30

his family ties, his brother who was an important

38:34

part of a very good basketball team there

38:36

in North Carolina. Like I think this

38:39

is a positive for a lot

38:41

of NFL teams that he has this

38:43

type of, well, athletic pedigree

38:45

that is obviously generational, but it's

38:48

grown up in an extremely competitive family.

38:51

Yeah, for sure. So, you know, going back to

38:53

his dad even, you know, Mark, his dad played

38:55

quarterback in North Carolina in the eighties, you

38:59

know, that family legacy that

39:01

Mark started has paid dividends. So, you know,

39:03

you had Mark starting off the gun, then

39:05

Luke May, as you mentioned, came in, played

39:07

basketball in North Carolina, was a preferred walk-on,

39:10

but ended up hitting one of the greatest

39:12

shots in UNC basketball history in 2017 to

39:14

beat Kentucky. UNC

39:16

goes on to win the national title, Luke becomes an

39:18

All-American the next couple of seasons. Their

39:21

other brother Cole won a baseball national

39:23

championship at Florida, you know, their other

39:25

brother Beau played basketball for North Carolina

39:27

last year. So, like the athletic bloodlines

39:29

run deep. And, you know,

39:31

that is ultimately the reason why he decided to

39:33

pull back on the Alabama commitment. It was because

39:36

the family did have this sense of loyalty and

39:38

this sense of duty, and they're a great family.

39:40

I mean, and spending time with Luke and spending

39:42

time with Mark, they are terrific people. And I

39:44

certainly think that's a bonus if you're scouting him

39:46

to be the face of your franchise. Yeah, this

39:48

is where the intangibles come in, right? This is

39:50

where you're looking at leadership,

39:52

competitiveness, hard work, all those things

39:55

that are examined thoroughly

39:57

by NFL teams. Like, I feel like you

39:59

don't... a lot about like

40:01

Drake May's intangibles like especially compared to

40:03

like JJ McCarthy where that's like the

40:05

first thing scouts will bring up.

40:08

What do you see in Drake May? For someone who's

40:10

been around him more than some

40:12

of us and has talked to his teammates like

40:14

what do you hear about Drake May? What do

40:16

you feel about Drake May? Yeah,

40:18

you know, I think this is where his

40:21

time under Sam Howell really comes and

40:23

plays dividends. So he has the family

40:25

background where they understand competitiveness. They understand the

40:28

spotlight. They understand how you have to

40:30

behave when you are in those situations.

40:32

And then being behind Sam Howell who is

40:34

definitely not a rah-rah guy, kind of just

40:36

very workman like you never get too high,

40:38

you never get too low. You know,

40:41

I think a lot of that really stuck with

40:43

Drake and you know even when Sam would come

40:45

back in the summer after he had been drafted

40:47

to the NFL like the work that those two

40:49

are doing together it's on making sure that okay

40:51

even when things go wrong how are you going

40:53

to handle all those situations? So I think just

40:55

like steadiness, composure. He's not you know a right

40:57

he's a yes sir guy, you know

40:59

very good country boy in that

41:01

sense. But you don't really hear

41:04

a lot about any of this off the field stuff.

41:06

He's had a long-term you know girlfriend like he's

41:08

just a very about football kind of guy.

41:10

I mean it is like his passion you

41:12

know like Sam Howell used to joke that

41:14

his date on Valentine's Day every year was

41:16

Madden. Like you could say the same sort

41:18

of thing about Drake. Like they just love

41:21

football, they've sort of been bred to play

41:23

football and obviously he

41:25

responded when he got his opportunities. What

41:27

are your concerns? Like how would

41:31

you describe because

41:33

again going back to this conversation I think there's a

41:35

lot of reasons why Caleb Williams is QB1

41:38

and I think some teams, some

41:40

pundits, some analysts, those who

41:42

watched Drake make closely have some concerns. Like for

41:44

someone who has watched him closely and covered some

41:46

of his games like where would

41:49

you rate your concerns with

41:51

his potential for the NFL? Yeah

41:53

I think I go back to that never say

41:55

die mindset. It's a blessing and a curse. You

41:58

know with Howell it was never say die. We

42:00

can hold onto the ball as long as

42:02

possible and that take a lot of Sachs.

42:04

Drake sometimes trust himself too much to go

42:06

make some of those here. a place of

42:08

rodents traffic a throat into a tough situation

42:10

for do things off platform that you know

42:12

maybe you shouldn't do things the Caleb is

42:14

probably a little bit better at so I

42:16

think that's a number one concern and then

42:18

just continuing to be able to to read

42:20

and survey the whole field like yeah, you

42:23

saw Drakes game had a different level this

42:25

year when as walker who's you know another

42:27

top hundred maybe draft prospects was able to

42:29

come back was. Finally eligible eat you be

42:31

interested to see like okay if he goes

42:33

to a theme that maybe doesn't have the

42:35

weapons how capable of he is he is

42:37

he of elevating them vs just taking advantage

42:39

of the guys he had what he had

42:41

just downs and he could just be just

42:43

downs he knew he had an Nfl guy

42:45

was a lot more seamless then as we

42:47

saw the season. sometimes yo you're looking for

42:49

your tight ends you try to make things

42:51

happen as from those mistakes com so as

42:53

a those are there to the bigger concerns

42:55

began like he the guy star lot of

42:57

games and and. You've. You've got a

42:59

pretty pretty good body work and to me is

43:01

already so after that you game which will again

43:04

which was a win for May North Carolina. I

43:06

thought he was exceptional. When it's. Like. Mack

43:08

Brown gets it's up to that podium at

43:10

lectern and basic causing. The best quarterback in

43:12

the country and I know I'm not going

43:15

to ask you to interpret that. You know

43:17

the coaches do this. I like Jim Harbaugh,

43:19

who I think his adopted Gg Mccarthy by

43:21

this this point, but like. I

43:24

the. On Math Rock. What?

43:27

Type of boys did you from the coaches because I'm

43:29

curious about it. Just. Because

43:31

there's some Nfl experience

43:34

around. Will. Drag

43:36

Me and Freddie Kitchens. There's Cli Christensen

43:38

who was Tom Brady's to be coaxed

43:40

like. What? Type of influences

43:42

you think they've had. I know what type

43:44

of player Jake Major be. Yeah

43:47

again as as somebody who wasn't there,

43:49

even as somebody who wasn't there in

43:51

the building every single day you heard

43:53

a lot about how Christenson help Drake

43:55

Mack and again continue to talk about

43:57

that approach the with handle things especially.

44:00

North Carolina season went on. The decent slipped a

44:02

lot of became more apparent like okay we're going

44:04

to need a little bit more Super Mandrake. His.

44:07

Approach never really changed and I think a lot

44:09

of the The Predator the credit for his preparation

44:11

goes to Christian soon. The way they worked together.

44:14

But. Again, like I was talking about,

44:16

like I think probably nationally. He

44:18

has only devices still starting to

44:21

pick up. But. Like locally, this

44:23

is something we're fans. Had been waiting for him

44:25

for years. Like the Allah you hear Alabama commit

44:27

you start to get excited. But like you know,

44:29

even even talking the you know the offensive coordinator

44:32

who recruited him in North Carolina so long ago

44:34

like longer had a guy and Sam our who

44:36

we thought was an Nfl quarterback and yet you'd

44:38

walk out of every conversation with him in his

44:40

office and he's gone away till the next one.

44:44

So there was this always the sense that. The

44:47

I'll give you great example. There. Was

44:49

talk when drag May first got to

44:51

college about how at Clemson. Taj.

44:53

Void was sort of Sam how he was

44:55

the guy who returned the program for national

44:57

relevance but it was can be the guy

44:59

after him to actually took the program to

45:01

the heights it was capable of. There was

45:03

a similar sentiment in North Carolina that same

45:06

how's the guy who's gonna put North Carolina

45:08

back on the level of respectability but Drake

45:10

these can be of to how they even

45:12

beyond that and again the Winston follow yo

45:14

how completed seem was around him. I don't

45:16

know what you would say. But

45:18

in terms of him elevating his plane single handedly being

45:21

able to win games like you're talking about that? Duke.

45:23

One, he showed why he was able

45:25

to do that. I

45:27

last question. Dame.

45:30

Burglar has compared him to the Just

45:32

Herbert. I feel like a lot of

45:34

analysts have. I'm sure some teams have

45:36

to. What? Do you make

45:38

of it is it is more than the body

45:40

type. I guess because you to talk about six

45:42

or five six foot six guys who are tall,

45:45

lean and they they look. The.

45:47

That the park Just in terms of the the

45:49

physical makeup what you want terms of size and

45:52

whatnot. like. Would. You think

45:54

of it. Would he make that comparison? Yeah,

45:56

I think Drake is probably. I would say

45:58

a little more athletics. I think the

46:00

jury can be more for a weapon is

46:02

a runner mean obviously don't wanna exposure franchise

46:05

quarterback and and make of susceptible to injury.

46:07

But I do think in terms of especially

46:09

some that short yardage stuff like he can

46:11

be really effective there. I don't know that

46:13

he has quite the arm strength adjusted. Herbert

46:15

does. Your harbor

46:17

can. Really? Yes as a reply, I

46:19

don't know that Drake is quite to that

46:21

level, but certainly what you're talking about in

46:24

terms of the stature, in terms of the

46:26

processing ability, in terms of the ability to

46:28

manipulate a game, and again that sentiment that

46:30

like as long as I've got this guy,

46:32

I have an opportunity to win know I

46:34

give this guy back the ball with two

46:36

minutes and see what he can do. I

46:38

think they do share that back in a

46:40

style of play. So they're small differences that

46:42

I would say between them, but I understand

46:44

why so many people are saying including date.

46:46

Obviously you're high alert comparison Would you be

46:48

shocked? To see. Like.

46:50

At this point would you be sacked is the first pets. I.

46:53

Would be surprised. I wouldn't be shocked.

46:56

I I will say this. I think

46:58

they're still upside here like the guys

47:00

started to Four seasons. He started whatever.

47:02

Twenty six games or so. But.

47:04

I do still think there's more upside just because

47:07

we haven't really seen we can do with Nfl

47:09

talent around him like when he had one Nfl

47:11

guy in just as. He. Was spamming and

47:13

just downs. put up career record numbers for

47:15

you and see receivers alter drake look like

47:17

a high profile cells with one Nfl guy.

47:20

I'm fascinated to see if you put

47:22

him in a situation like in as

47:24

a cargo region in a Washington we

47:26

do have legitimate weapons. Like. How

47:29

good could this guy be on?

47:31

I. Think that there's still an opportunity that he

47:33

we haven't seen the bathroom directly which is

47:35

obviously will you wanted to draft and guy

47:37

he still relatively young. I. Wouldn't

47:40

be shocked. I don't think that he's gonna make

47:42

as many wow places killed his. Arm.

47:44

But if you're looking for somebody who.

47:47

Has the potential to be like are a real

47:49

legitimate franchise quarterback and take advantage and and you're

47:51

going to be in every game. I can see

47:53

why that would be convincing as a number pick.

47:56

Brennan. Thank. you so much awesome

47:58

stuff it's good to see a good hear

48:00

from you again. Be sure to follow Brendan

48:03

R. Marks, M-A-R-K-S. He

48:05

is our North Carolina

48:07

writer for The Athletic, man.

48:09

Thanks again. Yeah, thanks for having me. I appreciate you.

48:12

Looking for the best place to buy tickets for

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The Athletic. It's

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only a kick. A

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jump. A block.

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It's only a serve. It's

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only a tackle. A

48:55

run. It's only for the fans. After

48:59

all, it's only pressure. You

49:01

got this. You need this. And

49:09

last but not least, we have David

49:11

Ubin, a friend of the show. He's

49:13

been on it a few times. He

49:15

is a college writer for

49:17

The Athletic who, well, just say

49:19

he specializes in covering the SEC. He

49:22

knows that conference through and through. You can

49:25

follow him on Twitter,

49:27

at DavidUbin. U-B-B-E-N. He's

49:30

been on here before. You've heard his

49:32

SEC insight before. Bring David in.

49:36

David, let's start with this.

49:38

I love the Jaden Daniels

49:40

story. I love when quarterbacks

49:43

in particular emerge

49:45

in their final collegiate season and

49:48

become like, oh, this guy's

49:50

damn good. He could be a top five

49:52

pick. What have we missed the past few

49:54

years? What clicked for him

49:56

this year? What

49:58

do you make of his... story at LSU,

50:00

you know his rise to Heisman trophy

50:03

winner and now he's like in the

50:05

conversation as Maybe

50:07

the second third overall pick in this draft Yeah,

50:11

I think for college football folks. He didn't necessarily

50:13

come out of nowhere He popped on

50:15

when he was a freshman At Arizona

50:17

State huge playmaker playing for current

50:19

ESPN analyst slash insta blade rule

50:21

breaker Herm Edwards

50:24

there's a lot of Former

50:26

Jets coaches There's a lot

50:28

of intraday rules that are bad Don't

50:31

bring players and their families on campus during

50:33

a pandemic might be the only good incident

50:35

way rule, but anyway So

50:38

that's either here or there He

50:41

burst off the door at Arizona State. It's

50:43

this huge playmaker He just never really got better

50:45

and so people were kind of like what's going

50:47

on here? his his his Targets

50:51

got worse, you know, he had worse people around

50:53

him But when he went

50:55

in the transfer portal, you know, he's one of the best

50:57

quarterbacks on the market because people still remembered Oh this guy

50:59

can really run Remain to

51:02

be seen exactly what he was as a passer But

51:04

but certainly was a guy that was dangerous and could

51:06

make some plays for you And

51:08

so he goes to LSU starts

51:11

working with Joe Sloan and their offensive staff

51:14

Mike then Brock and they're under under Brian

51:16

Kelly and If

51:18

you go back and watch the Florida State game

51:22

His first game as LSU it was

51:24

a disaster. It was like One

51:27

read and if he didn't see it, he was tucking and

51:29

running the game was ugly It

51:31

was terrible, but over the course

51:33

of that season you watched him grow up

51:36

Start to really grasp that offense get

51:38

a lot more confidence in his receivers around

51:40

him Playing with K-Shawn booty

51:43

playing with my league neighbors Brian Thomas some

51:45

really good players around him start

51:47

to grasp that offense gain some trust By

51:50

the end of the season, he was a totally

51:53

different player He probably grew up more

51:55

from the start of the 23 season

51:57

to the end of the 23 season as much as

51:59

just a anybody in the country. So

52:02

we came into this year and you know there's all

52:04

these high hopes on him. They get popped by Florida

52:06

State in the rematch. They lose a

52:08

couple games early. LSU had some national championship hype

52:10

to start the season. They go off the radar

52:13

but he kept putting up these, keep putting up these numbers and you

52:15

saw him continue a lot of

52:18

that growth. Continue to get better,

52:20

develop as a passer. He got a lot

52:22

more accurate. He understood when to use his

52:24

legs and and you

52:27

know when to use them to extend plays versus

52:29

making plays. Which I think a lot of guys

52:31

in the college game don't really grasp.

52:34

But the development that he made from

52:36

the time he got to LSU to now the time that

52:39

he's left you know really

52:41

made him into a viable NFL prospect

52:43

and I I think he's a wild

52:45

card in terms of the next next

52:48

step. I could see it going a number of ways. You

52:51

know was the was he the product of a really good

52:53

offensive system and a lot of really good talent around him.

52:56

There's certainly that certainly helps but

52:58

his accuracy, his decision-making from

53:01

that guy late in his career at Arizona State

53:03

and early in his career at LSU to the

53:05

guy that we watched you know win the Heisman

53:07

Trophy over the back half of the 2023 season.

53:10

Not the same player. So I'm really

53:12

intrigued by him. He's probably the most interesting

53:14

NFL prospect out of the quarterback group for

53:16

me. Why is that? Like

53:18

why would you I guess use

53:21

that description like the most interesting especially when

53:23

you compare him to Cale Williams, Drake

53:25

May and JJ McCarthy who are also in

53:27

discussion for the top ten in terms of

53:29

draft picks. I think kind

53:32

of similar to Joe Burrow in some ways like

53:34

he has some bad tape out there you know

53:36

you gotta get to look early in LSU you'd

53:38

have to look early in Arizona or you know

53:41

at any point late in Arizona State tenure where

53:43

it's like this guy is not

53:45

an NFL player but then you look

53:47

late in the season he's dropping these balls in

53:49

crazy spots he's outrunning everybody

53:52

you know if you use him in the right way I think for

53:55

me what makes him interesting is a huge

53:57

range of outcomes like if he walked in

53:59

there And he's you

54:01

know one of the ten best quarterbacks,

54:04

you know in the NFL next year

54:06

I can't say that it would like knock my socks off and

54:09

if he came out there and it looks like this,

54:12

you know, he starts four games next year and This

54:15

guy is not an NFL quarterback. I can't say that

54:17

would shock me either I think he has by far

54:19

the widest range of outcomes For me

54:21

from this group of NFL, you know these top

54:24

tier quarterbacks as top five quarterbacks He

54:27

had more touchdown passes this

54:29

year for L.A. I mean he did

54:31

over three seasons at Arizona State like

54:35

I'm just curious like these

54:37

transfer Porter rules is like,

54:40

you know these quarterbacks go

54:42

from team to team and They

54:44

find success elsewhere because there's other examples. Yeah,

54:46

how is that viewed at the college

54:48

level and then I don't

54:51

know Like how should we view it? Like

54:53

his story is different than JJ McCarthy's all

54:55

three years at Michigan It's different than Drake

54:58

Mays just stayed at North Carolina like kale

55:00

Williams There's some

55:02

similarity there, but kale Williams left after

55:04

one year at Oklahoma. Like

55:06

how would you? Evaluate

55:09

that like for someone who followed SEC

55:11

football so closely every player's story and

55:13

their reasons for going in the portal

55:15

and What they're

55:17

looking for is different right? Dijon

55:19

McCarthy, you know, I think they

55:21

they asked him to do a lot of the same things

55:23

as Andrew as Andrew Luck Obviously not comparing the two but

55:26

like he had a pretty straightforward college group Caleb

55:28

Williams is sort of interesting and

55:31

that he left, Oklahoma To go

55:33

to the same thing that he was used

55:35

to with Lincoln Riley at USC Didn't

55:37

have to learn a new offense to never learn new coaching staff

55:40

just sort of like hey guys get on my back Follow me

55:42

the offenses that they were asking Jay nails

55:45

to run at Arizona State Which was

55:47

kind of a mixture of much stuff some NFL concepts

55:49

in there some college concepts It was a little messy

55:52

to Mike den Brock system, you

55:54

know at that, you know, whether he had

55:56

brought over from Notre Dame I mean, it was

55:58

very very different as was the town around

56:00

him. So, you

56:02

know, you knew that this

56:05

guy had a lot of potential, and I

56:07

think that there was a lot of hope for him when he

56:09

left Arizona State of like, that

56:11

was kind of a messy staff. I mean, you know,

56:13

they were better than people thought. It wasn't the disaster

56:16

immediately that a lot of people in college expected. You

56:19

know, I still go back to Herm

56:21

Edwards, you know, debut press conference. If you haven't

56:23

watched that video, you should. It's very entertaining. But

56:26

people are like, this is gonna be a nightmare. It

56:28

didn't go as badly as people thought. It ended about

56:30

as badly as people thought. But

56:32

he went to a much better situation. They win

56:34

the SEC West. He beats Bama. That was

56:36

one of the breakthrough moments for him in year

56:39

one, which is making a ton

56:41

of plays against a really good Alabama defense to

56:43

win the SEC West. But

56:47

I think as you see, and I think some of

56:49

those, some of the hits are going viral among the

56:51

draft Twitter folks, but the dude is

56:53

a little reckless, not with the ball, but with his

56:55

body. And, you know, he

56:58

got banged up a little bit. He stayed healthier this year than he

57:00

did, you know, in previous years,

57:02

but he's not afraid to take

57:04

a hit, which I think can earn you some

57:06

respect in your locker room. But I think the coaches would

57:08

rather have you get down. I think

57:11

you'll have to probably learn that in the pros that,

57:13

hey, you took a ton of huge hits in college

57:15

and the guys only hit harder and they're bigger in

57:17

the NFL. So that'll be there. But,

57:20

you know, the portal, I think it

57:22

went from being a small

57:25

part of the game to an integral part of

57:27

roster building that I don't think players are looked

57:29

at very differently for going in the portal.

57:31

They just have to look at every guy's situation. Where'd

57:33

you come from? Why'd you go in there? And

57:36

what happened after? And every, you know, it's

57:38

a bit like a snowflake, right? Every situation

57:41

is unique. I

57:43

had a few of the things you just said there,

57:45

like in my notes, like his win over Alabama and

57:47

beating Bryce Young, who was

57:49

eventually the first overall pick. Like,

57:53

what is that kind

57:55

of, is it someone who covers the SEC? Like, what

57:57

does that mean? another

58:01

team beat Alabama or I know

58:04

George is different too now but like like how

58:07

much weight does that carry you think when teams

58:09

see that when NFL teams start to look at

58:11

that tape I think

58:13

a decent amount I think it was more impressive to me

58:15

Brian Kelly walks in there

58:17

in year one they lose an

58:20

all American at their offensive or their

58:22

defensive tackle position Mason Smith like a quarter

58:24

into the season you're

58:26

rebooting at LSU after sort of the end

58:28

of the coach O era you

58:31

go in there and you win the SEC West in year one it

58:34

wasn't so much just beating Alabama

58:36

beating Alabama with the SEC West

58:38

on the line like winner-take-all basically

58:41

that I think is what really means something that

58:43

you can carry a team and I

58:45

think he really did carry them to an SEC

58:47

West title in year one under a new coaching

58:49

staff when you go in there and you

58:52

know if he was a

58:54

big wild card going to 2023 because they had won

58:56

you know six or seven games under coach O but

58:58

people knew that team was more talented nobody's

59:00

really sure what to expect so

59:02

for them to come in and win the West I think spoke

59:04

to all the elements of the team

59:06

and overcoming that loss of Mason Smith and on all

59:09

of that so it meant something

59:11

but I think in that particular instance it

59:13

wasn't just that they beat Bama it's that

59:15

Bama was playing for everything and LSU

59:17

denied them that and that is that

59:20

is pretty impressive you don't see that

59:22

happened very often and then you mentioned

59:24

like some of the hits that he's

59:27

taken like I've seen some of those

59:29

they are not good it's not good

59:31

like it can't it

59:34

looks like I felt hurt watching those

59:36

to see him throwing around like that

59:38

and like I had this thought like

59:40

if you're concerned about like

59:42

JJ McCarthy's frame like size and frame

59:45

like if you're telling JJ McCarthy to

59:47

go gain weight like if

59:49

you look at jade and daniels well you

59:51

should eat some pasta and steak more

59:54

to like I get that sense

59:56

to like I don't

59:58

know like he's so good as a

1:00:00

runner, how concerned

1:00:02

are you about his frame when you see some

1:00:04

of those hits you know at the next level?

1:00:06

I know I'm asking you to kind of repeat

1:00:08

a few things but just in contrast with McCarthy,

1:00:10

it seems like if you start from McCarthy, it

1:00:12

seems like it would be a concern for Jaden

1:00:15

Daniels as well. Well I have to go

1:00:17

look at the numbers and sometimes the pads can deceive

1:00:19

you but I feel pretty confident that he gained some

1:00:22

weight from early in his career at Arizona State until

1:00:24

now even. But some

1:00:26

of those runs that he had this year, you know I think what I want

1:00:29

to say against, maybe it was Ole Miss, I forget who

1:00:31

it was, he had like a 77 yard run

1:00:33

where he just like wasn't touched. Maybe that

1:00:35

was Bama this year, I can't recall but

1:00:38

that ability is pretty special. The game

1:00:40

breaking runner ability and we saw more

1:00:43

of that I think this year than

1:00:45

even we did you know in his first

1:00:47

year where he was maybe running it a little

1:00:49

too much in situations he probably shouldn't. But

1:00:52

as he grew as a passer and seems

1:00:54

recognized oh like this is a problem, you

1:00:56

know those running lanes opened up a little

1:00:58

bit for him. But I

1:01:00

think when you already have that ability to

1:01:03

make those runs that can break open a game,

1:01:05

I think once you get to the second level of defense you're

1:01:08

always looking for that. You're not looking to move the chains. I

1:01:10

think you know you look

1:01:12

at Pat Mahomes, once he gets past the chains, unless

1:01:15

he sees wide open field, like

1:01:17

once he's past the chains he's getting down. Daniels

1:01:20

when he got past the chains he's like how do I

1:01:22

get to the end zone every single time. And

1:01:24

there's a price that you pay with that. I think he paid a

1:01:27

lot of those last year and some

1:01:29

guys learn that at the next level and

1:01:31

some guys are RG3 and it just it

1:01:33

happens. And you know you

1:01:36

it takes a while for some of these guys and

1:01:39

sometimes they get it, sometimes they don't. I'm

1:01:41

not sure I don't think he has you know

1:01:44

a bullheadedness to him that he's

1:01:46

just always going to take these hits when he doesn't

1:01:48

have the frame of a Josh Allen. But you

1:01:51

know we'll see. I think sometimes you say that

1:01:53

and you know what you're supposed to do but

1:01:55

then the game goes and you're alive and you're

1:01:57

like no I'm taking this to the house. And

1:01:59

then. And they're taking you to the sideline

1:02:01

in the injury tent. So we'll see. And

1:02:04

to his credit, he got up. He

1:02:07

played. He looks tough. He

1:02:10

plays tough. I mean, he's – Yeah, I

1:02:12

don't think anybody will ever question Jay Neale's toughness for

1:02:14

sure. Standing in the pocket, taking hits as well and

1:02:16

delivering the ball. Yeah. He did that

1:02:18

a lot more this year than we had seen him at

1:02:20

any point in his career, especially for a guy that we'd

1:02:22

seen play a lot of football before this season. Yeah,

1:02:25

to me, that's a huge positive. Another

1:02:27

one, like if I'm looking at his tape

1:02:30

and going through certain numbers, he was

1:02:32

an awesome, elite deep

1:02:34

ball passer in 2023. Just

1:02:37

explosive. He's got touch there.

1:02:40

I'm sure some critics will

1:02:43

say he had some special weapons. Again, he

1:02:45

might have a teammate who's drafted in the

1:02:47

top six or seven picks with him.

1:02:49

But what do you make of that success? Like

1:02:51

his ability, like you said, to stand in the

1:02:54

pocket and deliver those deep balls

1:02:57

with accuracy, touch, in

1:02:59

stride, and really take that

1:03:02

LSU offense to another level. Like what do you make

1:03:04

of all that success down the field? I

1:03:06

think it's two things. I think one, it's growing up and

1:03:10

understanding a lot of the offense

1:03:12

that he was in. I think

1:03:14

it's just doing work, getting better at his accuracy,

1:03:17

trusting those guys. Hey, you

1:03:19

know, if he's got a step, he's

1:03:22

open and I'm going to put it in there. And

1:03:24

I think you didn't see that a lot. You

1:03:26

didn't see it a ton at Arizona State. You didn't see

1:03:28

it a ton early on in year one

1:03:30

at LSU. The last year,

1:03:32

I mean, he was a new player. He

1:03:34

I guess, I think he just, he

1:03:37

progressed and improved probably more over the last

1:03:39

two seasons, especially considering how much he had

1:03:42

played. We don't see a ton of that

1:03:44

in college. After a couple

1:03:46

of years, you kind of are who you

1:03:48

are. Some guys make a little bit

1:03:50

of a leap, but to go into a

1:03:52

different stratosphere, we don't see that very often. But

1:03:55

we did from him. It

1:03:57

really is crazy. I Think for people, you

1:03:59

know, if you go. watch the film from

1:04:01

him over the last six weeks this year

1:04:03

and you go back and watch that for

1:04:05

state game to start Twenty Twenty three I

1:04:07

think people's heads would explode. it just not

1:04:09

even the same guy. What?

1:04:12

Do you make of his decision not to take part

1:04:14

in a senior Bowl tests correctly? If I'm wrong, he

1:04:16

was invited right? I thought he was on one of

1:04:18

the rosters and then you know by the end of

1:04:20

it he's an attorney. What would he make about them?

1:04:22

I. Think again it's it's sort of an individual decision.

1:04:25

Some these you know he he never really know

1:04:27

fairly probably have their reasons and they're rarely going

1:04:29

to hear the real reasons you know? Maybe he

1:04:31

was your banged up a little better, didn't feel

1:04:33

comfortable or trying to heal from some the hips

1:04:35

he took this year know I always played through

1:04:37

a bunch of stuff and and they're always really

1:04:39

dodgy about that but you have to watch much

1:04:41

else you to know like you know like lot

1:04:43

of people he when fully healthy given the year

1:04:45

and your there might have been an element of

1:04:48

that. I don't really know

1:04:50

attack In out on have a ton of insight

1:04:52

into that particular decision. Ah, but I think that

1:04:54

stuff. I think

1:04:56

especially for cornerbacks as a little over a the

1:04:58

thing for Lyman watching them and one on ones

1:05:00

against other only guys can be really telling but

1:05:02

the quarterbacks I mean listen, your film is your

1:05:05

film and I don't know how much that's going

1:05:07

to change. Senior Bowl Maybe you are a little

1:05:09

about how much he got the process or how

1:05:11

much you can draw back or all these little

1:05:13

little things will be two different the Nfl vs

1:05:15

College. But you know I think for him. You.

1:05:18

Know he's got so much film out there that I

1:05:20

don't know how much sustainable may have mattered. The.

1:05:22

Ah, hero bad and I'm guessing those

1:05:24

interviews that to get down immobile. Easy.

1:05:27

I go through. A. Bunch of

1:05:29

them that not only in Indianapolis, the Combine,

1:05:31

but there's gonna be. All.

1:05:33

Sorts of private workouts, all sorts of

1:05:35

dinners with coaching staffs and Dmz out

1:05:38

there. You know this is draft process

1:05:40

is our. To. Be extremely

1:05:42

lot A long, jaded and like you said,

1:05:44

he got five years worth of film. It's.

1:05:46

A lot of takes to get through and I do think.

1:05:50

The. One thing that really does work for him

1:05:52

even though he's had a very unique college career

1:05:54

and as had a variety of outcomes. Vi.

1:05:56

i'm a believer and at the biggest

1:05:58

correlation and in success from college NFL

1:06:00

his career starts. The dude

1:06:02

has seen a lot of football. He's seen a lot

1:06:05

of fronts. He's seen a lot of secondaries. He's

1:06:07

played in a lot of different systems. Well, I'm gonna say a lot of

1:06:09

different systems. He's played in two systems. But you've seen

1:06:11

a lot of defenses. He played in the Pac-12, played in

1:06:13

the SEC. You're gonna see a lot

1:06:15

of different players, a lot of different systems. And I think

1:06:18

playing that much football, continuing

1:06:20

to grow, probably does set

1:06:22

a favorable trend line

1:06:26

for his future in the NFL. Would

1:06:28

you be surprised if he's the second overall pick? Yeah,

1:06:31

because I'm not sure he has

1:06:33

the upside or the prototypical what

1:06:36

you want of Caleb and Drake.

1:06:40

I'm not all in on either of

1:06:42

those guys. All these are guaranteed franchise

1:06:45

guys. I think there's only been a

1:06:47

handful of those guys. And I thought

1:06:49

Bryce Young was that guy last year. We'll see. I

1:06:51

will tell. He did go to a terrible situation,

1:06:54

but you see. But ultimately,

1:06:56

if you're gonna spend a pick that high, you'd

1:06:58

want to gotta be a prototype. Drake and

1:07:00

Caleb are those prototypes. Jaden is not. So,

1:07:04

you know, he didn't have the same type of tape that

1:07:06

Bryce Young had to make him the number one pick.

1:07:08

But we'll see. I would be very, very surprised. Last

1:07:11

one for you. If maybe I just

1:07:13

have what Ryan Pols has said in the past, where

1:07:16

he's going to the combine to figure out the

1:07:19

person. I think that was, well,

1:07:22

with the first pick, obviously everyone's looking at Caleb Williams. He's

1:07:24

trying to figure out who Caleb Williams is. It's like, what

1:07:27

do you know about Jaden Daniels

1:07:29

in terms of leadership, intangibles, presence,

1:07:31

his ability to not only

1:07:34

take over an offense, but take over a

1:07:36

team? I think I would say you

1:07:38

don't hear from everybody, oh, you

1:07:40

know, this guy is gonna walk in and command

1:07:43

an F.O. locker room. But I didn't hear any

1:07:45

red flags, you know, from the

1:07:47

Arizona State side of things, or the LSU

1:07:50

side of things. You know, the

1:07:52

video of the

1:07:54

locker room after Arizona State

1:07:56

when he left, that's

1:07:59

like the only real... negative and some of that probably

1:08:01

sour grapes. I think

1:08:03

seeing how things played out in the years after

1:08:07

and knowing the situation that he left, I

1:08:09

don't think you can really blame him necessarily. But

1:08:12

there's always gonna be hurt feelings when you have a starting

1:08:14

quarterback leave. That's been

1:08:16

the only thing that I think might raise some

1:08:18

eyebrows, but I don't think it's necessarily a negative

1:08:21

on him. But

1:08:24

I think you don't hear a lot of red flags, but

1:08:27

you don't hear like, you know, this guy is the

1:08:30

quintessential field general and

1:08:32

all the guys in line. I think he

1:08:35

did what was asked of him and

1:08:37

didn't raise any concerns in terms of

1:08:39

his leadership or intangibles. He didn't hear

1:08:41

a lot of like, ah, I

1:08:44

don't know about that guy, which you do hear a lot. You

1:08:47

talk to people around college sports. Certainly you hear

1:08:49

whispers about guys. You didn't hear any of that with Jaden. Yeah,

1:08:52

yeah. So like,

1:08:55

there's this like rolling buzz. Like he

1:08:57

could be, like I feel

1:08:59

like his draft stock has improved

1:09:02

considerably since like the end

1:09:04

of the season and the more the

1:09:07

pundits or what have you, you know, dig into

1:09:09

the film. You know, there's more highlights showing up

1:09:11

on Twitter and whatnot.

1:09:13

Like, are you surprised by

1:09:16

that? Like that he's in

1:09:18

conversation for the second pick. Or is there a

1:09:20

sense of surprise that he is gonna be a

1:09:23

top five pick by the end of the day?

1:09:26

No, I mean production talks. I think he doesn't

1:09:28

have a lot of obvious negatives from the NFL

1:09:30

perspective. And so when you have the kind of

1:09:33

production that he did, both as

1:09:35

a passer and a runner, you have the growth. You

1:09:37

win the Heisman. You do

1:09:39

everything that could be asked of you despite playing in

1:09:41

a situation last year where the defense fell apart, the

1:09:43

defensive coordinator gets fired. You didn't

1:09:45

see a lot of bad body language from him. I

1:09:48

can't say I'm surprised. I mean, putting up those numbers

1:09:50

in the SEC, even though the SEC's identity has changed

1:09:52

in some ways, is always

1:09:54

going to gain some attention. So

1:09:57

I can't say I'm super surprised. Well,

1:09:59

thanks. David, thanks as always. We always

1:10:02

love having you on the show. I feel like

1:10:04

this is your third or fourth visit with us.

1:10:06

I think so, it's good. Yeah, we have to

1:10:08

start sending you checks, right? Something like that. But

1:10:11

thank you as always. Read David's

1:10:13

stuff on the athletic, follow him on

1:10:15

X, Twitter, whatever you wanna call it,

1:10:17

at DavidUbin, that's U-B-B-E-N. Thanks

1:10:20

as always, my friend. Thank you guys,

1:10:22

appreciate it. All right, that wraps

1:10:24

up this episode. It was a long

1:10:26

one. If you watched

1:10:28

on YouTube, you saw my

1:10:31

uniform change. It's just, I

1:10:33

wanna give a special thanks to Austin,

1:10:35

Brendan, and David. Just thank you for your

1:10:37

insight. I hope you enjoy that episode. It's

1:10:39

gonna be interesting to see what the bears

1:10:41

do. They have the first pick, the ninth

1:10:43

pick. The draft starts with them. I'm

1:10:45

sure we'll have a lot more coverage. You know we'll have

1:10:48

a lot more coverage. In

1:10:50

the following weeks, we'll be down in Indianapolis. But

1:10:52

take this one with you. The insight here,

1:10:55

I think, will be

1:10:58

a little bit evergreen. It will go into the

1:11:00

draft itself. Again, special

1:11:02

thanks to Austin, Brendan, and David.

1:11:05

But that'll do it for this episode.

1:11:07

Follow us on Twitter, at Adam Johns.

1:11:09

We have our Hogan Johns account at

1:11:11

Hogan Johns. Go to

1:11:14

hoganjons.com for our merchandise

1:11:16

from obvious shirts. Hit that subscribe button

1:11:18

on YouTube. You know the deal. Go

1:11:21

to seehogsstuff on allchgo.com. We

1:11:23

got some fantastic stuff coming

1:11:25

from Indianapolis next week on theathletics.com.

1:11:28

But that's it. Thank you, as always, for listening.

1:11:31

And we'll be back next week. Hoog?

1:11:37

Hoog? Hoog? Hoog?

1:11:39

Hoog? Hoog? Hoog?

1:11:42

Hoog?