0:03

Breaking news from the athletics.

0:10

What's up? Welcome in Hogan Johns

0:13

with you with an early

0:15

quickie episode this week because of

0:17

the big news that

0:19

the Bears are finalizing the hiring

0:22

of Shane Waldron as their next offensive

0:26

coordinator, something a

0:28

guy we've talked a lot about and Johns,

0:30

we thought it'd be smart to bring in

0:33

our guy Mike Dugar who covers

0:35

the Seahawks out in Seattle

0:37

for the athletic and get

0:39

the perspective from Mike right away on the

0:42

OC that we're going to be interviewing here

0:44

weekly come the regular season. John's

0:47

any initial thoughts though, before we jump in here? Like

0:50

my first reaction is that

0:52

I like it. I like that he actually coached

0:54

for Pete Carroll and he started his career with

0:57

Bill Belichick. I liked that he's from the

1:00

McVeigh tree was there when things

1:02

got started with Jared Goff right away in 2017.

1:05

So there's a lot of things to like

1:07

about it, especially when you compare them against

1:09

Luke Etsy, three years of plate calling experience

1:11

in the NFL. Luke Etsy didn't

1:13

have any of that. And he's worked with

1:15

different quarterbacks. Russell Wilson, Geno

1:18

Smith, Kirk cousins, Jared

1:20

Goff, again, again, Luke Etsy only

1:23

had Aaron Rodgers really on his resume. So

1:25

from as far as

1:27

my initial reaction, I like it because

1:29

he's different than his predecessor. Mike

1:32

does a great job covering the Seahawks out in

1:34

Seattle. She found my Twitter at Mike Dugar and

1:36

Mike. Look, I always maintain

1:38

that there's maybe five NFL

1:40

fan bases who actually like their offensive

1:42

coordinator. So I'm trying not to take

1:44

too seriously. Some of the angst or

1:46

warnings that are coming out from, you

1:48

know, on social media right now from

1:50

Seahawks fans. But man, you've been there.

1:52

You tell us what's it been like

1:54

the job that Shane Waldron did over

1:56

the last three seasons in

1:58

Seattle. Yeah, I do think there

2:00

is a very noticeable divide between

2:03

how Shane is perceived outside

2:05

of Seattle versus with the

2:07

fans and even some local media

2:09

think of him. He does

2:12

design some good stuff. But

2:14

it's for me when I'm assessing a coordinator,

2:17

Adam just ran through like, okay, here's his resume.

2:19

I start there, this is his background. And

2:22

the other thing I look at is situational stuff.

2:24

How's your team on third down? How's your team in the red

2:26

zone? How's your team in two minute? Situational

2:30

doesn't usually include like opening script, but I'm usually curious

2:32

about that too. Shane, really good

2:34

opening script guy. I don't

2:36

know, has numbers off the top of my head, but I'd

2:38

probably put those against most OCs in terms of first 15

2:41

or whatever. After that, though,

2:43

when you talk about third down, red

2:45

zone, that's why you're seeing all that social

2:47

media pushback from people in Seattle. They're really

2:49

tired of just going three and out, really

2:51

tired of not scoring in the red zone,

2:53

really tired of being like one of the

2:55

worst third down teams in the league, which

2:57

I think they were again this year and

2:59

the situational stuff. That's what wins and

3:01

loses your games. Can you execute in

3:04

two minute? Can you stay on the field in

3:06

third down when you get in the red zone?

3:08

Do you get touchdowns? Usually things that keep people

3:10

employed, you're bad at those things. Usually don't get

3:12

promotions, generally speaking. So when I look

3:14

at Shane or any OC, that's where I'm starting

3:16

at, he was really inconsistent in that regard. There

3:18

were some days they were just masterful on third

3:21

down. An example, a

3:23

prime time example would be when they played the Cowboys

3:25

this year, week 13, there's a night football,

3:27

they were like nine to 14, killing it.

3:29

First third down is DK, beach to Ron Bland for

3:32

like a million yard touchdown. And they ended up being

3:34

really good on third down the rest of the game.

3:37

But even in that game was another good example of

3:39

Shane. They failed on third down

3:41

and fourth down multiple times with a chance

3:43

to win the game. And on the last

3:46

play of the game, they tried, they run

3:48

a play for DJ Dallas. And

3:50

then people in Chicago might be like, who is

3:52

that? Right? I was thinking

3:54

that. He's the first running back.

3:56

Miami. Yeah, he went

3:58

to Miami. They're third. string running back.

4:00

He's actually boys with Travis Homer,

4:03

former Seahawks. They're they're really tight.

4:05

But like the idea of having

4:07

DK Metcalf and Noah Fant and

4:10

Tyler Lockett and Jackson Smith and Jigba and

4:12

even Ken Walker or no, I don't think he

4:14

played but Zach Charbonnet and with the

4:16

game on the line, like fourth and whatever it

4:19

was, you're running a play that is for DJ

4:21

and also expects Michael Parsons to come

4:23

unblocked and you don't do anything about it. Alright,

4:25

that's that whole game. If Barrett's fans are looking

4:27

for game to kind of analyze Shane, that one's

4:29

a really good one. Just it's him in a

4:31

nutshell. It was really good in some spots, but

4:34

it was really bad in some spots,

4:36

some critical spots as well. Can

4:39

you take us back to to his hiring

4:41

the start because didn't

4:43

Russell Wilson kind of play a role in

4:46

his arrival like he he was involved in the

4:49

the search that eventually landed

4:51

Waldron, correct? Yeah, that was

4:53

a weird time because Brian Schadenheimer

4:55

didn't get fired for like because

4:58

he was bad at his job. They had like three top

5:00

ten offenses in a row and that was the end of

5:02

the let Russ cook time

5:04

that kind of Shane came

5:06

into and he basically got

5:09

fired because he was stuck in a weird spot. He

5:11

was just like, yeah, here's how I want to get

5:13

down. Here's how Russ would like to get down and

5:15

then he's like, well, here's how I want to get

5:17

down. So you're gone. We're keeping Russ

5:19

and we're going to find a new guy and

5:21

Russ was at like he really

5:23

wanted more control of the situation. He was

5:25

tired of not winning championships. He

5:27

felt like the there were other circumstances besides his

5:29

own play impacting that so he was like, let

5:31

me help pick the next dude. If you guys

5:34

are going to be fire coordinators that I like.

5:36

So Shane was like brought into like a really

5:38

disruptive household and now we see all this reporting

5:41

later that shows how like toxic that situation was.

5:43

So yeah, Russ was involved. I don't know if

5:45

he like picked. I don't know what round he

5:47

got in on like I think they had a

5:49

a cast at a pretty wide net got down

5:51

to about three. I think

5:54

maybe the Packers pass game

5:56

coordinator at the time was involved as well

5:58

and then I think Russ was involved. in like when

6:00

they got down to the final three and

6:02

really like Shane. I think Russ actually, I

6:05

could find the transcript or something but I think Russ

6:07

was telling us that he like was

6:10

quizzing Shane or like having Shane call some

6:12

plays like hey call this call this call

6:14

this game was like really like really

6:17

interviewing him he was really involved in the process

6:19

all for that to only last for a year.

6:21

So yeah I think Russ was really heavily involved

6:23

really like Shane spoke highly of him liked his

6:25

ideas. You could kind of tell that

6:29

he had an identity that Russ liked. Russ liked some

6:31

of the things that you guys are mentioning that came

6:33

from McVey Tree. He

6:35

had worked with Goff. He had worked with some other

6:38

quarterbacks too. The RAM system had

6:40

been kicking Seattle's butt for a while. So

6:42

they're like anybody from that give

6:44

us the secret sauce. You know Russ was really

6:46

big on that. It didn't come to fruition like

6:49

they wanted but yeah Russ was pretty

6:51

supportive of that hire in real time.

6:54

So the I don't know if you know this but

6:56

here in Chicago you have to be in one or

6:59

two camps. You have to pick one of the two

7:01

camps you can't be you can't

7:03

cross over at all. Yeah they got to

7:05

be team Caleb Williams or team Justin Fields.

7:07

So the team Justin Fields people they

7:11

they're I think they're excited because of

7:13

what Geno Smith has done the last

7:15

couple years here. How

7:18

much credit does Shane Waldron

7:20

deserve for you

7:22

know whatever type of renaissance Geno has been able to have?

7:25

That's a good question. If

7:27

I had to chart it out or use like a

7:29

pie I don't I don't think Shane's class would be

7:31

super big just because I think it's

7:34

really more of a credit to Geno as a

7:36

person. Like when I did a feature story

7:38

on Geno last year around the time he made the Pro

7:40

Bowl and I was going back and reading some of his

7:42

like old quotes from the Jets and like some of it

7:44

was like oh man this dude's young and immature right like

7:47

that he needed to go somewhere else to

7:49

flourish but you see Geno calls

7:51

himself a Pro Bowl caliber quarterback in like 2014

7:55

and it was so it was viewed as such like an inflammatory

7:57

comment that I think like Rex Ryan had to come out and

7:59

apologize for. forward or walk it back. So crazy

8:01

that was up there in New York. But like

8:03

that you could see Gino always believes in himself

8:06

even when he got to start he broke Eli

8:08

Manning starting streak was like 200 plus games in

8:10

a row and the coach who broke the streak

8:12

for him end up getting fired. But Gino he

8:14

didn't he wasn't apologetic of like, Oh, cool, Eli

8:16

did his thing. But like, I'm ready now I'm

8:19

ready to play. I'm ready to play instead of

8:21

this future Hall of Famer like you guys love

8:23

him here. But like I'm Gino I'm ready to

8:25

rock. He's always been super confident. He

8:27

put up a ton of numbers at West Virginia.

8:29

He was a really good high

8:31

school prospect in South Florida

8:33

where they produce all of the good high

8:36

school prospects it seems so Gino never thought

8:38

that he wasn't the guy. You know, I think

8:41

Gino signed with rock nation out of the draft

8:43

and was like the quarterback of the Jets, right?

8:45

So I mean, posing with Jay Z, your first

8:47

couple years in the league, you're the mountaintop and

8:49

Gino mentally never left the mountaintop. So when he

8:52

got a chance to start here in Seattle, he

8:54

was just like, Yeah, I've been wanting to take

8:56

Russ's job. See ya, you know, let your rest

8:58

but I'm ready. So he was

9:00

one of those stay ready. So you didn't have to

9:02

get ready type of guys. And I think that if

9:05

again, in the pie chart, that's been like

9:07

70% for me from seeing that say Shane

9:09

did nothing but Gino deserves

9:12

a lot of credit for that self belief. You know,

9:14

that's why his story was so inspiring because it was

9:16

a testament to his own faith in himself. And

9:19

then the rest of the pie chart are probably

9:21

give to Pete Carroll, who just gets

9:23

guys to believe in themselves in a way that

9:25

I don't think we've seen from any coach really

9:27

like Pete, Pete gets the best

9:29

out of dudes, everyone from the long snapper to

9:32

the quarterback. So I probably give

9:34

him another like 20% of that. And then

9:36

Shane's probably lumped in there with the

9:38

rest like having a good supporting cast

9:40

and throwing the DK Metcalf makes anybody's

9:42

job easier. Throwing the tile lock it

9:44

makes anybody's job easier. He had a

9:46

Gino had a decent line that last

9:48

couple years, at least that tackle. So

9:50

I think Shane played a part of

9:52

it. But I'm not gonna lie,

9:54

I think Gino overcame his coordinator in some

9:56

cases, particularly last year, I think last year's

9:58

third down stuff was a mess. And

10:01

Gino was doing damage control more than anything,

10:03

at least in my opinion. So

10:05

then like, take us through this year when

10:08

the numbers aren't the same, you know, he goes

10:10

from leading the league in completion

10:12

percentage to well, well, not having

10:14

a pro bowl year as you did the year before.

10:16

Like, where do the

10:18

struggles lie is we're Shane Waldron and

10:20

Gino Smith not working well together. Because

10:22

we saw that kind of play out

10:24

here with Luke Getsi and Justin Fields.

10:27

So maybe take us through the ups

10:29

and downs of this past season. That's

10:31

a good question too. Shane, Gino

10:34

was probably the biggest Shane supporter I came

10:36

across. Like on off the

10:38

record, like Gino was big Shane guy. So

10:40

that was not the issue. Everyone

10:43

else wasn't on the same page, we get mixed results

10:45

on him. Some people loved him like Gino did. Some

10:48

people were like, yeah, he's okay.

10:50

Like he does some good stuff here and there. But like, it

10:53

was, I was asking guys who like it was their job

10:55

to get the ball so I could see why they frustrated.

10:57

There were some guys who had real career lows, playing

10:59

with Shane last year, some tight ends and receivers,

11:01

even a guy DJ Dallas, like I think he

11:03

ran the ball like 10 times, you know, all

11:06

year. That's not a lot for running back, you

11:08

know, some guys can get that on one

11:10

drive. So there was some mixed

11:12

results in there. I think Gino was very

11:14

supportive of them always was publicly privately. So

11:16

I think the issues were more so this

11:18

rock cut, saying a little slack. I

11:21

don't know how many iterations of the O-line the

11:23

Seahawks had starting this year, but it was well

11:25

onto the double digits. Like it was a double,

11:27

it was double digits by like week 11, which

11:29

is bad. It's very bad. And

11:31

that lack of continuity was very hard to coach

11:34

with. And I imagine it was very hard to

11:36

practice with too. There's one thing if you like

11:38

your right tackle blows ACL, right? Because then you

11:40

just know he blew his ACL. But

11:42

if like he's got a gimpy knee, and

11:44

he's limited at practice, so your right guard

11:47

rolls his ankle or something like that, then

11:49

you're just like, okay, will I have him?

11:51

Will I not? And the plans kind of

11:53

reflected that some games, like when they played

11:55

Detroit, they came out thinking we can't block

11:57

Aiden Hutchinson. So let's plan accordingly. Let's give

11:59

our guys. help. We're missing our two

12:01

tackles to go beat Detroit. They

12:03

go out with that same type of plan against like the

12:06

Giants. Oh, we can block these guys. Well,

12:08

then K-1 Thibodeau wrecks the whole plan and they

12:10

scored like 10 points on offense or something like

12:12

that. So not knowing

12:14

what he was going to get out of his O-line

12:16

led to a lot of inconsistency. I think on Shane's

12:18

part, because imagine that as the OC, you're like, all

12:20

right, cool. Do I call the

12:22

game thinking we can block these guys? Or do I call the

12:25

game thinking we can't? In some games, you could

12:27

tell he went in there thinking, yeah, we could block these guys.

12:29

And then Trey Hendrickson just blows them

12:31

to smithereens in Cincinnati. In some games,

12:34

he gives guys help, you know, like

12:36

on a Michael Parsons or some

12:38

of the games against the Niners like, hey, we're not going to

12:40

be able to block Bosa. So let's adjust

12:42

accordingly. That was very tough on Shane. And I

12:44

think that really impacted their situational stuff. The Seahawks

12:46

had stretches where they were just awful on the

12:49

red zone, awful on third downs. I

12:51

think the end of the year is 30th in third downs. And

12:54

I think that was a big part of it because when you don't know

12:56

what you're going to get up front, it's hard. Like

12:58

do we break through our, do we leave our back

13:00

in there? Do we max protect? Do we slide in

13:02

this way? What are we going to do? And even

13:04

if we have a plan, do they hold up? You

13:07

know, does our right guard just get walked back in

13:09

the genome? You know, we're playing 41 year old Jason

13:11

Peters. Is he going to hold up

13:13

this week? Right. So I think Shane dealt with all of that

13:15

on top of some inconsistency from his

13:17

quarterback and his run game. And it was

13:19

just hard. Like the product was not, I'm

13:21

not going to lie, I'm kind of surprised the Bears were after him

13:23

so tough because the product you just go by last year, it was

13:26

not get a promotion worthy.

13:28

It was like, ah, the new guy comes to

13:30

retain you, but it didn't like blow me

13:32

out of the water. You know what I mean? So

13:35

why do you, yeah, why do you think

13:37

the outside perception seems to be so different?

13:40

Um, cause it was like, I'm not going to lie to

13:42

you the moment and I don't think it's just here in

13:44

Chicago either. There's been some, you know, some

13:46

national hype around him. The moment

13:49

we found out Pete Carroll, you

13:51

know, was, was getting bumped up and there was going to be

13:53

some coaching changes there in

13:55

Seattle almost instantly. It was like, Oh,

13:57

Shane Waldron would be a perfect fit for what

13:59

the Bears are trying to do. Yeah,

14:02

no, I was wondering that earlier in the year too. I

14:04

think it was like around like week seven or something. There

14:06

was a YouTube video like an hour long. It was like

14:08

the headlines like Shane Waldron was the most underrated play call

14:10

on the league right now. It was incredible. I think it

14:12

was like Josh McCown breaking it down. So I didn't wanna

14:15

like say Josh McCown didn't know who he was talking about,

14:17

but I watched the whole thing. And I

14:19

was like, wow, this is really fascinating. Like

14:21

I didn't think, I don't think Shane's bad. I think he's like, okay.

14:24

And I think he's like a decent coordinator. You

14:26

give him good players, you'll get like a good

14:28

offense. Seahawks offense was not bad this year. It

14:30

was very good. It was like

14:33

top 15, top 10 and like some really

14:35

good efficiency stuff. But when I'm looking at

14:37

some of the outside perception, I'm like, huh,

14:39

all right. So you guys,

14:41

you don't care about situational football then. Cause

14:43

you wanna talk early downs, Shane's a master.

14:46

That's probably what it is. Cause on early

14:48

downs, Shane will give you some stuff. Like

14:51

he's a, I think he's a former tight end coach.

14:53

I think that's his positional background. And you can tell

14:55

some of the usage of it. They do some like

14:57

funky formations. They're

15:00

really good with 13 personnel, 12 personnel. Seahawks are one of

15:02

the best 12 and 13 personnel teams in 2022.

15:05

So I think that's the conclusion. I haven't

15:07

like, I'd love to just ask Josh McCown

15:09

I guess, but that's one of the

15:11

things I kind of concluded like, okay, people

15:13

really 11 this early down stuff. And I

15:15

think that that's important. You know,

15:17

that's half the damn game. So what you can

15:20

do on first and second down cause the Seahawks,

15:22

if you just look at those splits, really good

15:24

team, really efficient run the ball well, good

15:27

balance team running pass. Shane figured out

15:29

how to run screens. I mean, they

15:32

hadn't run screens well in Seattle sense.

15:35

The kingdom was a thing. So it

15:37

had been a while. Shane does some good stuff. I

15:39

don't like he's terrible, but I do think

15:42

it's when he, he's probably in one of those situations where if

15:46

you go in thinking in

15:49

either direction, if you want your bias

15:51

confirmed, you can find it in either

15:53

direction. When you watch the Shane Walden offense, you go in

15:55

thinking, oh man, this guy's a genius. Look at this. Look

15:57

at this formation. Look how they set this up. I

16:00

could do that. I could do that right now. Pick

16:02

plays and designs and like, oh, look how they came back

16:04

to that. And if I wanted to be pessimist,

16:06

I'd be like, oh, look at all these bad

16:08

things. So I really think it's kind of just eye of

16:10

the beholder situation. And you guys will

16:12

see that. You'll see some games where Shane kills

16:15

it. And you'll see some games where, and

16:18

the talk radio in Chicago that next morning

16:20

is gonna be nasty for him. You know,

16:22

you can already see it. So yeah, I

16:24

really think that focus on early downs and

16:27

some of the work that he did there is probably why

16:29

a lot of people are high on it. How

16:31

did he get along with Pete Carroll? Because

16:34

Matt Iberfluis, another defensive minded

16:36

head coach, I imagine Pete

16:38

had a strong influence on

16:40

the way things were going to be run by

16:43

Shane. Did some extent, right? Oh,

16:45

yeah. Pete, what

16:47

it's worth, Pete's pretty hands off from what I've

16:49

heard on the coordinators, particularly

16:52

on game day. I think he learned in trial

16:54

by fire there of being too hands on and

16:56

just messing up the guy. And

16:58

he's learned from being a coordinator with the coach in his ear

17:00

like, dude, leave me alone. I'm trying to call it a place.

17:02

Let me rock. So he's been good with

17:04

that on game day. He'll butt in

17:07

every now and again, but it sounds like

17:09

it's more so like a mentality or something

17:11

like, hey, let's get back to the run game. He's

17:14

not calling like, we're gonna run H pivot here,

17:16

whatever, you know. Sounds like he's more like, hey,

17:18

man, we ain't got to, let's bleed clock here

17:20

or let's take a shot here. You

17:22

know, just a little stuff like that. I'm not in the headsets,

17:24

you know, but that's what I'm saying. You know,

17:26

but that's, that's what the sense that I get

17:29

and having that autonomy is good. And I was

17:31

always curious how much he had because then I

17:33

can assess him, you know, not necessarily like, all

17:36

right, do I think that your boss is in

17:38

your ear while you're trying to work because that

17:40

would suck for any of us, let alone

17:42

guys in these like high stressful situations

17:44

like an OC at the NFL level.

17:46

So yeah, I get the sense that

17:48

the pairing worked well. I

17:51

do think last year though, it was really

17:53

frustrating. I don't know if it led

17:55

to any like toxic stuff behind the scenes. I don't have

17:57

no reporting on that, but I do know this was possible.

18:00

probably the first time since I've been covering

18:02

Pete, which is since 2017, that Pete basically

18:04

came out and said, we're not using our

18:06

guys right. This was after the Dallas

18:08

game, I wanna say, which again, see that was a

18:10

good example of a good chain game and a bad

18:12

chain game all in one. They lost and Pete was

18:14

like, yeah, we're not using our guys right. Like I

18:17

use Jackson Smith and Jig but more, like we

18:19

gotta get our tight ends more involved. Usually your

18:21

coach is just like, let's run the ball more,

18:23

right? Every coach thinks that. But Pete was very

18:25

specifically like, yeah, we need to use JSN differently.

18:28

Our tight ends aren't involved enough. We

18:30

gotta be better on third down. I hadn't heard Pete do that

18:33

in years. Never really heard him do that, even when the

18:35

offense stuck in the past. So that

18:37

was very interesting to see around like December,

18:40

late November, where Pete would be like,

18:42

yeah, we have all these talented dudes and we're

18:45

not maximizing them. We need to maximize them. When

18:47

I heard Pete say that, that was

18:49

a huge indictment of the OC to me. You know,

18:51

like that was a huge red

18:53

flag. You guys can probably find that transcript

18:57

at the press conference where he said it.

18:59

It was either after the Niners game or

19:01

Thanksgiving or the Dallas game. It was certainly

19:03

after a prime time game. I just remember

19:05

thinking that's terrible. That's your job. It's literally

19:07

your job to maximize Jackson Smith and Jig,

19:09

but DK Metcalf, Tyler Lockett, Noah Fink, Colby

19:11

Parkinson, Ken Walker. It's a lot of skill

19:13

talent to not be a really dynamic

19:16

offense. So yeah, I think they got a long fine,

19:18

but man, that comment right there. Everyone

19:20

wrote about that. That week, that sounded terrible. Last

19:24

thing I have for you is, can

19:26

you paint a picture of maybe

19:28

the ideal quarterback for what

19:31

Shane wants to do? Because

19:34

I guess one of my concerns here under

19:38

the idea of keeping Justin Fields is

19:41

just, one of the

19:43

things that Justin struggles with is just getting the ball

19:45

out fast. And his drop

19:47

is slower than most and

19:49

just quick timing things. And

19:51

that kind of what the West

19:53

Coast offense mostly is. So I mean,

19:56

just from what you've seen, both

19:59

from Ross and from Gino, just what's

20:02

the ideal quarterback for what Shane Waldron wants

20:04

to do and you know, however

20:06

comfortable you are kind of projecting that

20:09

on Justin Fields, you know, feel free to share that

20:11

too. No, yeah, I'm just

20:13

like you guys following you guys are closer to

20:15

it. But when I saw them higher saying I'm

20:17

like, okay, wait, they keep in Justin and I

20:19

think the bears what interview Greg Romans that made

20:21

me think they were keeping Justin. I would probably

20:23

just trade for Drake May. I mean,

20:26

I'm a May guy over Caleb guy, even though

20:29

I'm in packed 12 country. But either way, I

20:31

do think getting the ball out on time is

20:33

probably the preferred style of play. I think the

20:36

good OCs can just work with whatever you got,

20:38

right in theory, but that's like

20:40

get it out on time. Because it's just so

20:42

much easier as an OC. Think about it like

20:44

this was why Russ was like a frustrating quarterback

20:47

at times for some OCs. Because

20:49

it's like cool, dude, you can triple

20:51

Axel and spin and make this play with it's

20:53

like, and that dig was open. If

20:55

he had just waited for it, he wouldn't have had

20:57

to do all that. I think

21:00

Russ is Bryce Young is like this

21:02

too, I think to a lesser extent. Both

21:04

of them are really good problem solvers, but they

21:06

solve problems that they created. And

21:08

that's just really frustrating for an OC any OC,

21:10

not just Shane, like dude, I

21:13

designed this play like the backside

21:15

dig is open or the corner was there like

21:17

or the fade was there like just just just

21:19

throw where it's at, you know, it's so much

21:21

easier, particularly for your online to to

21:24

block for that like knowing hey, this is a three

21:26

step drop. Our alignment or blocking like

21:28

it's a three step drop, you sit back there and

21:30

take seven and dance. That's your fault if

21:32

they get called for holding or something, you know. So

21:34

I think that yeah, being on time is

21:37

key for any OC. But

21:39

I do think that's probably the bucket that Shane one

21:41

has got to be in like, hey, man, we designed

21:43

these plays. You got gifts as a

21:45

quarterback, whether it's Caleb or Justin, you got gifts,

21:48

use them accordingly. But, you

21:50

know, working within the flow of the offense is

21:53

much easier to get your guys in rhythm. I

21:55

think that would be my guess. Because

21:58

when Russ was at his best with Shane, that's what he was.

22:00

was doing. That's where

22:02

Geno is all the time. That's

22:04

why I think Jim and Geno work so well,

22:06

because Geno was definitely a, I'm about

22:08

to get this ball out to where I'm supposed to

22:11

go, go through my reads, go over the read takes

22:13

me, trust the process. They're very big process guys. Drew

22:16

Lock was even the same way. So Drew

22:18

Lock get busy in that Eagles game, especially

22:20

late. So yeah, I think that would

22:22

be the preferred style. This makes it an interesting fit, because

22:24

I watch fields too. So I'm like, I don't know, man.

22:26

You don't look like he gets the ball where it's supposed

22:28

to go. He's thinking too much, which

22:31

I would think you guys are way

22:33

closer to me. But I would think

22:35

the hiring chain would probably be leaning more towards

22:37

getting a different quarterback. That would be my thought.

22:40

Because yeah, you guys know that's what justice

22:42

struggles with. And Caleb is probably

22:44

a little bit better at it. So or Drake May,

22:46

like I said, I'm a May guy. But yeah, I

22:49

would guess on time, read your,

22:51

trust your keys, read them, progress through as

22:53

we planned it, and go from there. That

22:55

would be the ideal guy I think for

22:58

a Shane offense. Mike, quickly, I

23:00

was going to ask you what's next for Seattle,

23:02

given their coaching search. But now I need to

23:04

know why you're a Drake May guy. I

23:08

think that Drake

23:11

is a little bit better at doing what I was

23:13

just mentioning. Because I went to

23:15

Washington State. So I watched a lot of Pac-12 football.

23:17

So I watched a lot of Caleb. I'm going to

23:20

have as long as he's been in the conference. Haven't

23:22

watched as much Drake, except for like on film,

23:25

recently. I don't watch him live that much. When I

23:27

watched them both, I seem like if

23:29

I'm a coordinator or head coach or whoever, I think

23:32

I can get Drake a little

23:34

bit more naxed to play on time and

23:36

on schedule. Because the on schedule stuff is

23:38

just, it's more sustainable. I feel like if

23:40

you can be an off script guy, but

23:44

you've got to use the situation. That's why my

23:46

homes is so great to me. And Lamar, like

23:48

they're really good when they need to

23:50

be off script. But if the play is open, they'll

23:52

wait for it. Josh Allen's the same way, actually, too.

23:54

Hey, I can run. All these guys I mentioned can

23:57

move. But they're going to run as Like

23:59

a second day. Very outlet. After they scan what

24:01

they need, you could see Caleb. Caleb.

24:04

Gets himself in trouble little bit with that.

24:06

Solving. Problems that he creates Ls that

24:09

us the off at last he was a

24:11

joke like eat that off as it had

24:13

access to be Superman. It was unfair to

24:15

him but some of the problems to wear

24:17

his own creation and he was just so

24:19

much more athletic than everyone. His arms so

24:21

talented that he could buy time vaccine make

24:23

up fifty yard. He's down the Cylon but

24:25

you guys know you can't live off that

24:27

the Nfl he just kept at some point

24:29

the other guys are gonna be just as

24:31

athletic is you and they will catch you

24:33

and they will hurt you if you do

24:35

that and you freshly to teammates by not

24:37

put the playing on schedule. yada yada so

24:39

is splitting hairs little bit but I like

24:41

you gets very similar arm talent arm and

24:44

like I do stuff with Drake. Had

24:46

you think you can give him i

24:48

think a little easier to play on

24:50

schedule if that's what the often cause

24:52

where he just got to play back

24:54

yard ball as this light yellow a

24:56

gothic caleb because he's played bet injury

24:58

but I do think if your goal

25:00

is to hey man this is a

25:02

were run and this is the dig

25:04

from open up. Get. It or over

25:06

the line backer front of the safety. I find

25:08

Good District do a little bit more consistent. Are

25:12

my good software appreciate man are there

25:14

was to be found You on Twitter

25:16

at Mike do gar that A D

25:18

U G A are endorsed the you

25:20

know what of ethics I'm talking points

25:22

for as here my concert the Gov

25:24

product of. People. With system

25:26

is podcast Can we would think about this?

25:28

Hire a little bit differently after hear what

25:30

you had says. We really appreciate Mm. Oh

25:33

yeah, no problem. Like you said, no real like

25:35

the rosie right list of an easy so as

25:37

to recover thirds of oil at. Me

25:40

right now while the other blame everly a

25:42

mad or not side of the to get

25:44

the bottom cold hard you know? yeah no

25:47

you're right no one likes thorough Seamount in

25:49

also good like the same out there is

25:51

a good mind so but yet you gotta

25:53

get it either when you when score points

25:55

they go didn't know and will add beef

25:57

with. That. They are. Thanks Mike! Three.

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Mm. Chances

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who's the guy from Pittsburgh We had on

27:39

right after the birth rate of for trees

27:41

claypool. Cavalli.

27:44

That that's what I'm reminded me of Mark to

27:46

buy. Into

27:48

was like it was. Know why? I

27:50

think they're a bit different just terms

27:52

of like what's the a player. Like

27:57

be I managed to hit Yes, yeah yeah

27:59

I know what to say but yeah, I'm

28:01

sorry about serves the interview we did right after

28:03

the acquisition. That's that's all of say and I

28:05

wouldn't expect the results to be. Quite

28:09

that disastrous. I'm no I

28:11

I. I really like if

28:13

if someone brought you on

28:16

and. I don't know hum. New.

28:19

Orleans. If they hire look at the wouldn't

28:21

you who who who persist. In

28:25

right? No, I do like

28:27

In In Them look. Appreciate

28:31

everything. That. Might have say about

28:33

Geno Smith to but also his work work

28:35

work Regina Smith the last couple years with

28:38

think there's gotta be a level of of

28:40

that to and any Ios you go with

28:42

better with a really good. Quarterback

28:45

arm. Which. Is not what

28:47

seem all that he said. You know

28:49

regress. Russell Wilson. That. They were

28:51

willing to trade and. Geno.

28:54

Smith who. You know again,

28:58

As. Good as he's been in this Renaissance

29:00

he's been on. Jill Smith is still like.

29:02

Not. A top ten Nfl quarterback. So.

29:07

That. I saw League the Higher makes a

29:10

lot of sense for what the Bears are trying

29:12

to do here. Threading the needle between they're too

29:14

big quarterback options of the have to make a

29:16

decision on here in the coming months. It's a

29:18

great way to put it's both are on the

29:20

table dinner table we know exists from any referrals.

29:23

I'm. Mike.

29:25

Enzi had this in one of his columns.

29:27

I a big was all. At

29:29

the end of last year when

29:32

Geno Smith has breakout year again

29:34

led the league in completion percentage,

29:36

career highs in passing yards, career

29:38

highs, and touchdown passes and I

29:40

think passer rating so you know

29:42

might say no. Front of the

29:44

show the Athletics national writer does

29:46

those Qb tears rapes Zo in

29:48

Twenty Twenty One. He

29:50

was in tears. Three at number sides

29:52

are making they get this right here

29:55

in twenty Twenty one. He

29:58

was. In. Tear fi the

30:00

only quarterback. In tier Five.

30:03

After Twenty Twenty Two, he

30:05

jumped up to tear three

30:07

at number Twenty. That jump

30:09

was the largest jump that

30:11

year. in the third largest

30:13

jump. In. The History of

30:15

Santos Tears Project. So. There's

30:18

an ever get improvements made by

30:20

Geno Smith and Twenty Twenty. Two

30:22

if I guess is yours are a mess it

30:25

up his ears and I am. I'm. He

30:27

was just a had deal. Smith was just

30:29

ahead of them. are twenty one. Just.

30:32

And feals. and tier three. So what

30:34

you for asking about? Yeah.

30:36

Yeah, but you're you're. you're talking. After.

30:39

The good season Geno Smith A that

30:41

last year going into this. To.

30:43

The just so the last one is what

30:45

you want. He was gonna twenty twenty one.

30:47

He was the tier five by himself. Jan

30:50

twenty two. He moves of the tier three

30:52

because of this. The. Success!

30:54

Yep. The. Years or different. I

30:56

got the years of the actual survey wrong here,

30:58

but. This in terms of production Europe's

31:00

and. Dog. I think that also

31:02

nord percent I don't even. I'm saying there

31:04

is improving their and I'm Olga. Note is

31:06

another show it. Twenty Twenty Two was his

31:08

breakout year. And. It was after

31:11

that breakout year that he made that

31:13

jump from tier five this year. Three

31:15

yes in the twenty twenty three Qb

31:17

tear serve and there you go which

31:19

was like Latimer ah we got if

31:21

we as you are So luck. Yeah

31:25

I. Looked. Point

31:27

of this short little posit I was was that

31:29

somebody I'm from Seattle. Who knew

31:31

the situation well? A give are

31:34

uninformed. View. On

31:36

the whole thing because Mike has covered.

31:39

Say. Waldron the last three years. so

31:41

you know Now it's now. It's up

31:43

to you guys a list. Serve the

31:45

viewer to take that information and projected

31:47

to what the Bears have. Ah,

31:51

We. Have more money grabbing signs. This

31:53

interview side of the out your

31:55

i got me eggs values as

31:57

fast as a difference between like

31:59

to bali. Like.

32:01

He said that was not gonna work from

32:03

the start with to square. Like.

32:05

He called it from the get go. This

32:07

is going to be a blast Moved his

32:09

claypool. The bus pacts. This is national regard

32:11

for the Bears. Thank you for the second

32:13

round pick. Steelers could be more grateful You

32:15

write. This. Interview There is a bit

32:18

more. Optimism the go

32:20

with pessimism. That's.

32:22

Her. That's fair. I still feel

32:24

like it's sort a little cold

32:26

water or thousands of years that

32:28

so far it's This News is

32:30

as we're recording this what about

32:32

eight hours old and I? it's

32:34

been. Mostly. Viewed as

32:37

a home run higher. Ah,

32:40

Also. Some of what we've heard from

32:42

Seattle to was or that gives a interesting

32:44

information here for fans. I care about press

32:46

conferences and stuff early say Waldron doesn't say

32:48

much. Currently. Pretty

32:51

dry in his press conferences and ah, be

32:53

like of get much out of those. This

32:55

is the word. That. That's that's

32:57

common. Our Seattle Matt Giraud know

32:59

that doesn't necessarily matter but always

33:01

seems the into the conversation here

33:03

in Chicago somewhere the other. Know

33:06

beyond like the pop Can bet that lucchesi

33:08

had going forever. You know that once test

33:10

score Canada stayed up there all year. plant

33:13

matter way like and all fun and games

33:15

but see go look back at the most

33:17

press conferences like he sent a lot of

33:19

stuff. And I can only comment. Now

33:22

you see a lot of stuff. But.

33:24

We look. Back. At it

33:26

does now lot there. Were

33:28

he was very lucchesi became very

33:30

good at saying nothing. Many.

33:32

Words little substance. Yeah, and

33:35

think that's fair, I'm. So.

33:38

Again and an almost everly matters or

33:40

whatever. But. It does as Mike

33:42

said, a D and ah you gotta

33:44

win games And. That. Little.

33:47

Issue becomes more of an issue when

33:49

you're not winning games then that's when

33:51

they're becomes prob. If you're winning games

33:53

knowing tears like still bell check. For.

33:55

years and years and years with their

33:58

win fights ah i'm sorry ah All

34:00

right, any other final thoughts? We

34:02

obviously have plenty more opportunities here to talk more

34:05

about this hire coming up. I

34:08

think some readers, some listeners,

34:10

I don't know what you talked about in CHGO, or

34:13

too many people are making too many connections

34:15

between Shane Waldron and

34:18

the QB Collective. Yes. And

34:20

like the history of Cale Williams being

34:23

there and other young quarterbacks, anything

34:25

that just enhances draft evaluations to me, like

34:27

having that experience. Like, you know who else

34:30

is involved in that? Like

34:32

Mike Shanahan, Kyle Shanahan, Mike McDaniel,

34:34

Sean McVeigh. Like every single person from

34:36

that tree we're talking about, like

34:40

even, you know, Stefanski, who's,

34:42

you know, part of that tree through Gary Kubiak, they

34:45

all go there. They're all part of that

34:47

QB Collective. So a lot of input from

34:50

a lot of great coaches, obviously

34:52

with that Collective they have going on. So don't

34:54

read too much into the tie. Well,

34:56

and I didn't know

34:58

this until someone brought it up, but apparently you go

35:00

to that website and Justin Fields is on the homepage.

35:04

So again, yeah, I don't, in

35:06

fact, I think this is the one hire that

35:11

above all other options that

35:13

maybe was most down the middle when

35:15

it becomes, you know, on

35:19

the idea of would this be a tell on the

35:21

quarterback decision? I don't think it's a tell either way.

35:24

Like, I don't think- I just think- Greg

35:26

Rohan would be a tell. Most

35:29

of the other guys they interviewed were in

35:31

the middle. And I think specifically Shane Waldron,

35:33

you can go either way here. Now, that

35:35

being said, I'm sure they talked in their

35:37

interviews about maybe Shane

35:40

Waldron's preference or what they

35:42

think he can do or what he

35:44

thinks he can do with both of these quarterbacks.

35:46

And maybe in their hearts

35:49

or their brains or whatever that led them

35:51

thinking one way or the other. But we're

35:53

not going to have that information. We're not

35:55

going to know that in

35:57

the meantime. So interesting how-

36:00

In my opinion, a

36:02

good hire, but

36:05

we've also been down this road with rotating

36:07

OCs every anywhere

36:09

between one and three years. I

36:12

just have been to Chicago. Comparing, well, yeah,

36:14

happens a lot. If you're

36:16

just comparing and contrasting between

36:18

Waldron and Luke Getzey, to me, it's

36:21

the plate calling experience that stands out.

36:24

And I like that he has history in Los

36:27

Angeles. When things got started with Jared

36:29

Goff, right? Forget the

36:31

Geno Smith turnaround for a little bit. How about

36:33

the Jared Goff turnaround? And I get it that

36:35

he started off as the tight ends coach there,

36:38

but by the second year there in Los

36:40

Angeles, he was the passing game coordinator. And in

36:42

that second year, Jared Goff set

36:44

career highs that are still valid to this

36:46

day, even with what's going on in Detroit.

36:50

That to me is very appealing, especially if you're

36:52

going to compare and contrast what the Bears

36:54

just had on Luke Getzey. We had no experience calling

36:56

plays at this level. And it

36:58

would only had a reference of

37:01

a reference point of Aaron Rodgers and his success.

37:04

So there you go. Mike Dugar, who

37:07

covers the Seattle Seahawks for

37:09

The Athletic. theathletic.com/Hogan Johns is

37:11

where you go to subscribe. We

37:13

did have a long, very long

37:16

Shane Waldron show on CHGO today. If

37:18

you want to check that out, all

37:20

CHGO on YouTube

37:22

channel, all chgo.com. Plenty

37:26

of coverage on this big hire. And

37:28

of course, John Z and Fishbane

37:30

broke it down as well. You

37:32

can follow us on Twitter at

37:35

Hogan Johns. And individually at Adam

37:37

Hogue, at Adam Johns. And

37:39

we're back tomorrow. We got

37:41

a big show tomorrow because our guy, Dane Bruegler is

37:43

coming on. I wonder

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what he thinks about that. He had a

37:49

little mock draft last week with a certain quarterback. Also

37:52

available on The Athletic. Dane's great. And

37:55

obviously last year when the Bears had the number one pick, we

37:57

had Dane on a lot. That's the plan this year as well.

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So, Dane Bruegler, everyone always loves when Dane comes

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on. That's what's happening on

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tomorrow's episode. Tuesday morning we will record

38:06

that. So, a little bonus

38:08

action here today as we cover the

38:10

hiring of the Bears new offensive coordinator.

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But, for now we'll say goodbye and we'll

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be back with Dane Bruegler tomorrow.