0:00

old is true to be self evident. That

0:02

all men are free.

0:03

There's a number of congress I get to

0:05

have a lot of really interesting people in the office.

0:07

Experts on what they're talking about. This is

0:09

gonna podcast for insights into the issues.

0:11

China, bio terrorism, Medicare for

0:13

all. In-depth discussions, breaking

0:16

it down into simple terms. We old.

0:18

We hold We hold these truce. We hold these

0:20

truce. With Dan Crenshaw. We hang on.

0:23

Since

0:24

the start of this pandemic, our country has been

0:26

repeatedly impacted by supply chain issues

0:28

that have impacted every mode of transportation. While

0:31

some of this was unavoidable, the problems are exacerbated

0:33

by COVID shutdowns and restrictions on energy

0:35

production. Latest crisis to erupt

0:38

is with railroads which are on the brink of a

0:40

labor strike that has the potential to grind

0:42

the country to a halt. This may catch

0:44

you by surprise since in September of the

0:46

Biden administration celebrated a tentative

0:48

deal suspiciously close to the election.

0:50

Now at the very last moment, the administration is

0:52

urgently pleading help from Congress

0:55

with the crisis that they created. So

0:57

how did we get here? What are the complicated

1:00

issues at hand? We're gonna ask

1:02

help for help with that to explain it. We're gonna be

1:04

joined by congressman Rick

1:06

Crawford from Arkansas first congressional district.

1:09

He serves as the ranking member on the

1:11

railroads. pipelines and hazardous materials

1:13

sub committee. Rick, thanks so much

1:15

for showing up. Yeah. We're

1:17

here in between votes and

1:20

back room trying to get this sorted out because this is

1:23

a this is a hot topic at the moment. Just

1:25

quick a couple of things about you, I think, or or

1:27

in just you listed the US Army Strata High School.

1:30

You served as an EOD tax. So appreciate

1:32

your your service there. I love our EOD

1:34

tax. That's for sure. Graduated

1:36

from Arkansas State with degree in agricultural business

1:39

and economics. I competed in

1:41

rodeos. You're

1:44

a a songwriter, song, guitar player

1:46

as well. I've just learned. So and

1:49

when did you get elected? When did you get elected? I got

1:51

elected in twenty ten. So this is some finishing

1:53

six turbines. Okay. So let's

1:55

just jump right into it. mean, what the heck is going

1:57

on? We've got a potential

1:59

strike to declines, December ninth.

2:02

Mhmm. Things we voted on today were

2:05

were basically congress

2:07

telling the the the unions

2:09

and the railroads that they have to take the deal

2:11

that is currently on the table. Where

2:14

do we even begin on this to help people understand

2:16

Yes. I don't I don't like that. This goes back to

2:18

a a nineteen twenty six law

2:21

that has to do with the Rail Labor Act.

2:23

That is what it's called. So the underpinnings

2:26

are there. I mean, there's statutory authority for

2:28

us to do what we did today, and there's precedent for it. It's

2:30

happened two or three times in the hundred years roughly.

2:32

that that law has been in effect. Doesn't necessarily mean

2:34

it's always the right thing to do per se.

2:37

We had a lot of people talking about the comparisons

2:39

to the FAA strike. years

2:41

ago under the with the Reagan administration, Apple's

2:43

and Orange's comparison because the FAA was

2:45

a federal workforce. Whereas, this

2:48

is a private sector. So I don't necessarily

2:50

like us weighing in on a private

2:53

sector matter. President Reagan had

2:55

a couple of things on his side that that

2:57

that Joe Biden doesn't have one. He had the,

3:00

you know, intestinal fortitude to say,

3:02

you come to work or don't come back at all.

3:04

And number two, I had the authority to do that as

3:06

the chief executive of the federal workforce. President

3:11

Donald Trump does with the FAA. on the FAA.

3:13

President Biden has neither of those. He doesn't have

3:15

any authority despite his claims of being

3:17

the most labor friendly union friendly

3:19

president in history. Yeah. He was not able to

3:21

close the deal. So he negotiated

3:23

a deal, a settlement that

3:26

was adopted by eight of the twelve unions.

3:28

Mhmm. And they they

3:31

did what was called a cooling off period to

3:33

review this tentative agreement. And

3:36

so as you mentioned in your opening comments, this goes

3:38

back to the fall prior to elections. And

3:41

that was, you know, saved the day because we've

3:43

got midterm elections coming up and we don't

3:45

need a rail strike prior to midterm elections even

3:47

further. So you mentioned this this particular

3:49

law. I mean, the law's intent is good. Right? It's

3:52

it's to make sure that if in case in

3:54

case unions and business and railroads can't

3:56

come to, like, some kind of deal government

3:58

steps in and says we will not stop having

4:01

railroads, like, because that would be devastating to our economy.

4:03

So I get it. Right? And it it it I

4:05

understand the intent probably not perfect. Maybe

4:07

maybe maybe anyone we're in power next year,

4:09

we should have. We can update that. Yeah. But

4:12

do they what so how often did these renegotiations

4:15

happen between the railroads the union. Well, and

4:17

that's the thing that I think probably traps most

4:19

people. It's somewhat arbitrary when

4:21

and when they can decide they want more money.

4:23

when can they say we're gonna we're gonna get into another

4:26

collective bargaining agreement because we're not

4:28

happy with our deal. Right? And so there was

4:30

some really some some negative information that

4:32

was put out there out of context about

4:34

paid time off related to sick days.

4:37

And, you know, most of these rail contracts had

4:39

at least three weeks as a baseline.

4:41

Yeah. And and as your senior already

4:43

grows, then that goes you you might go

4:45

to four weeks and five weeks and so on. The other

4:48

thing is where else can you go?

4:50

with with nothing more than a high school education

4:52

and make a hundred thousand dollars a year or even

4:54

more. Actually, like, the I'm sorry. I think the average

4:57

salaries we were looking at prior to this

4:59

deal, really a hundred and thirty thousand. I know. It's

5:01

it's it's and it's, like, not bad. It's not

5:03

bad. And so

5:04

then they get a twenty four percent raise.

5:06

They get, you know, fourteen percent of which would have been

5:08

immediate with the phase in of

5:10

the balance over forty five percent twenty

5:12

four percent raise is the deal

5:15

that Biden's PEB Of

5:17

of Yeah. The residential Residential emergency

5:20

board. Mhmm. So they come

5:22

in when when the industry is just not

5:24

working it out. Right? So so Biden signs these

5:26

people come in and negotiate

5:28

something. And this is what they came up. They kinda met in

5:30

the middle. Mhmm. And was

5:33

is sort of some broad agreement from industry

5:35

railroads and and unions. Like, okay. We kinda

5:37

met the middle. But then the unions or at

5:39

least the big unions got greedy again. Right.

5:41

and said, no, a twenty four percent increase.

5:43

It's not good enough. And pay is

5:46

not good enough. And so that chaps the ass of a

5:48

lot of Republicans here. Actually, we had a big

5:50

debate about it earlier this morning. Republicans were kind

5:52

of on both sides of this issue and the foe. Mhmm.

5:55

You know, those are the poll and there were some interesting

5:57

arguments about why. you

5:59

know, I I personally have certainly split because

6:02

I've got a lot of certain chemical industries

6:04

in my district. So they they cannot handle

6:06

rail stopping. No. on the

6:08

other hand, it's like we know Democrats are gonna pass it because

6:10

it's their mess that they created. And the truth the truth

6:12

of the matter is, you know, from what I'm hearing, I

6:14

wanna get your opinion on this. the Biden

6:16

administration negotiated this in a

6:19

way that was way too favorable to unions,

6:21

which made them greedy -- Mhmm. -- in the first place

6:23

-- -- as unions there's a particular

6:25

union culture that is very unique to America.

6:28

Mhmm. I I remember doing research on this when I was

6:30

in undergrad. Like, the differences between Germany

6:32

and the US and some of it, like, why are

6:34

are aware of exactly what I was researching about. The way the

6:36

reason our manufacturing, culture

6:38

was different. One of the main reasons in the

6:40

literature, it shows simply that the way unions

6:43

caves. Mhmm. The behavior of unions in

6:45

Europe is very, very different than it is here

6:47

here. It's like a it's like hostage taking. Oh, and

6:49

that's exactly what's happening here. Basically,

6:51

we have a two billion dollar gun at our head

6:53

every day -- Mhmm. -- if they

6:55

stop. Because let's be honest about it.

6:57

We we have problems with our throughout

7:00

transport mission. So you can't rely on

7:02

trucking to pick up the slack. Number one, we have

7:04

AAA deficit of drivers. Yeah. Some eighty

7:06

thousand drivers that we don't have positions

7:09

filled for. Number one, number two, they can't handle

7:11

the bulk commodity at the scale that the rail does. That's

7:13

the value proposition of rail. Number

7:15

three, pipelines aren't

7:17

pumping those commodities like they should be in.

7:20

You can't pump coal through a pipeline. Yeah. So,

7:22

you know, a lot of things you

7:24

can't go through a pipeline. And so you

7:26

can't what we have historically relied

7:28

on is that, you know, the interconnectivity of

7:30

our of our modes of transportation, you

7:33

know, rail is an extricable part of that.

7:35

take that out of the equation. And, yeah, you're looking at

7:37

about a two billion dollar hit per day, and this

7:39

is not about Christmas. Although, you

7:42

know, the timing is is is terrible. Yeah.

7:44

It's about the season. It's about we're

7:46

approaching winter or, you know, the northeast corridor

7:48

that relies heavily, say, for example, on heating oil.

7:50

Yeah. which is crazy. By the way, that's

7:53

a whole other conversation. Yeah. We can we can offer

7:55

that. We build pipeline for natural gas. Exactly.

7:58

You know, so I mean,

7:59

it it really

7:59

it it tees up a huge problem

8:02

for our economy.

8:03

But, you know, really

8:06

at the heart of this is the failure of the

8:08

president to

8:09

be able to negotiate this deal. This is a guy who's been

8:11

here since nineteen seventies. You knew Joe. We thought

8:13

he knew what he was doing. Yeah. And and he's the

8:16

guy that can fix everything. he

8:18

said that he was directly involved

8:20

with negotiations. And in his press secretary

8:23

came out twice and said he was not

8:25

directly by our vice versa. And and

8:27

but the point is one of the two of them thought he was

8:29

on the moon yesterday. So I mean So one of

8:31

the two of them were lying. I mean, and and

8:33

possibly both. Who knows? But the point

8:35

I'm trying to make is that this was punted to

8:37

congress to save face

8:39

for the administration. Right. Because he

8:41

couldn't close the deal. I'll make congress be

8:43

the bad guy here, but in the end, they

8:46

piled on this other bill.

8:48

Yeah. The h con res one nineteen,

8:50

which was basically a

8:53

a technical way for Pelosi

8:56

to say, I didn't add anything to the

8:58

bill. She said there will be no poison pills.

9:00

Mhmm. But then she put separate piece of legislation

9:02

supplementing it. Which is also why a lot of

9:04

Republicans voted again. Exactly right. The quote unquote

9:07

good piece of legislation, which is it's

9:09

still arguable whether it's good, but Right? But

9:11

but the basically what we were was a lot of political

9:13

insidership here. You're basically giving

9:16

them the base from which to

9:18

ad and the crap. It kinda feels like

9:20

this is this feels like sort of what happened

9:22

with the Mansion deal and IRA. It feels

9:25

a little bit like that. And so and so

9:27

let's let's explain the complicated political

9:30

procedure here now, the legislative procedure.

9:32

So those both pass out of the house.

9:34

Mhmm. That that second kind of poison

9:36

pill passed over one But it was just two

9:38

separate pieces of legislation. So do they get how does

9:40

this work with the senate? So the senate will can

9:43

either can pass either one or vote either one

9:45

down. Okay. I was under the impression would be combined? No.

9:47

It was not. They're not. And so I'm

9:49

not sure. Despite an awful

9:51

lot of populace over on the other side, I'm

9:54

not sure they have the votes to pass the

9:56

the hcon res one nineteen. Okay.

9:59

That's extraneous.

9:59

I think they will pass the underlying

10:02

bill but I don't know that they're gonna

10:04

have the votes to pass the big ugly mess.

10:07

And a lot of questions members had this morning.

10:09

They were good questions, and I I don't know that they

10:11

really got answered. lot of people this

10:14

is a complicated issue that has been thrust upon

10:16

a lot of us who don't deal with it every day really,

10:18

really quickly. And so we had a lot of interesting

10:20

questions, like, what happens if nothing gets

10:22

passed today? That that question wasn't

10:24

really answered. Right. What happens

10:27

if nothing gets passed today? can we propose

10:29

something else? Can we propose a a

10:31

twelve percent increase in pay? And so and

10:33

I understand why unions want an increase in pay

10:35

with inflation. I guess we're at. The

10:37

labor costs are increasing everywhere. Everybody,

10:39

whether you're in a union or not, know,

10:42

pay is increasing. I I would argue it

10:44

would increase just fine. a normal market rate

10:46

without unions and their meddling, but -- Mhmm. -- which

10:48

it is. And anyways, can you know,

10:50

that was the question some people had. Can we

10:52

propose a bill as Congress? Obviously,

10:54

wouldn't help us with this. That was just a twelve percent increase

10:57

in pay. Is is there precedent for

10:59

that? Sure. And and and that's the authority

11:01

that we have under the nineteen twenty So we can

11:03

go into that much detail. we could do that.

11:06

What

11:06

was done initially by

11:08

myself and and Sam Graves,

11:10

he's the the Republican leader on transportation.

11:13

we put the bill out there that basically

11:16

said the

11:16

PEB deal. Mm-mm.

11:19

Then the dim

11:19

set up crap, we're gonna have to pass this bill

11:22

Let's add one day of paid sick

11:24

leave. Okay. I mean,

11:27

one

11:27

day. Alright. What I mean, what

11:29

are you trying to do here? It's I'll go along with

11:31

that if that's what you gotta do. But

11:33

she says she speaker close. She says, but

11:35

we're not gonna have to do poison pills. And

11:37

then she follows up with a great

11:39

big voice of bill. Well,

11:41

there was no talk about what they already have

11:43

as a current contract. Of the three weeks

11:46

But that's such a typical thing in government

11:48

and all issues. Right? Democrats always make it

11:50

seem like program x never existed

11:52

before. Turn down. It was, like, twelve of them. They actually

11:54

want start another zero. They always There's every

11:56

issue. Every issue issue. That's why they had

11:58

an existing contract. They

12:00

were getting an improvement in their in their wages

12:02

-- Mhmm. -- and an additional day

12:04

off, and it wasn't good enough without them telling

12:06

us what the deal was that they had in the first place. That's

12:08

that was also some of the confusion. And

12:11

really what what really made a lot of

12:13

members mad was not knowing the

12:15

answers to these questions, and they weren't forthcoming.

12:17

We had to go to the rail carriers ourselves, ask

12:19

those questions. Really? Yeah. To because

12:22

the unions won't tell us. Yeah. So we had

12:24

to go to the rail companies to find this out.

12:26

And then all you know, the union contracts are essentially

12:28

the same. The rails do things differently. They might work

12:30

on different shifts, all those other kind of thing. But union

12:33

contracts, a union contract. So

12:35

eight of the twelve said yes to this

12:37

deal, by the way. Mm-mm. It was the

12:39

four big ones that control

12:41

a plurality of the union membership. So

12:44

they've got the inordinate influence. They

12:46

said no, and that's really where

12:48

the sticking point was. One one question

12:50

I have is unions work? Like, who said no?

12:52

Like, did they actually have to take a vote from their members?

12:55

Well, this is a question that has bothered me for

12:57

a long time. I from a a right to work state.

12:59

So I'm not necessarily with us. We really

13:01

have a union presence. Yeah. And so the union

13:03

presence in our state is very limited.

13:06

you know, rail is obviously an exception, but my concern

13:08

has been and and kinda always will be,

13:11

how much do the rank and file members actually

13:13

getting to weigh in on these issues? And

13:15

are they just blindly paying these union dues

13:17

as cost of doing business? Yeah. And who's to

13:19

say if they were just when independent, they couldn't get a

13:21

better deal in that market, especially for these

13:24

kinda skills. I'm gonna tell you something exactly. I'm gonna

13:26

tell you something that might make a real difference. If

13:29

your union dues were not withheld

13:31

in your check if you had to physically

13:34

write the check -- Mhmm. -- for your union

13:36

dues, you

13:37

might rethink a value proposition

13:39

of what you're paying the union bosses to do

13:41

on your behalf. Should make that a lot. That's I've talked

13:44

about it a bit. First off, I wanna

13:46

know is that a tax deductible item?

13:49

Is it is it a pretax withholding? But

13:51

is it a is it a withholding that is sort

13:53

of administratively handled so you don't feel it?

13:55

And you can't even get hired to these he's, if you're

13:58

not It's a real time union. He has to be. And so

14:00

it just goes against everything free

14:02

market. Oddly. self

14:05

esteem. Amazon's holding down union

14:07

in several locations. They didn't want party union.

14:09

You know why? because people wanna more of their money. That's

14:11

why. Yep. That's interesting. didn't know. And another

14:13

think it was you brought it up in conference too, is

14:16

that just a little fun fact for

14:18

the environmentalists out there that in the IRA,

14:21

they made any legal to build more rail without

14:23

union contracts, which would make it illegal

14:25

to build the this new interesting

14:27

electric autonomous railway

14:30

system being developed by Elon Musk is that? Right.

14:32

Sure. I mean, it was, like, they they want it doesn't mean they

14:34

brought it up, but that's a good point that they that

14:36

they have their hands and everything, and we sit back

14:38

and talk about how we need advance infrastructure investment

14:40

and all these things. What do you think the biggest cost of

14:42

infrastructure investment is labor? Yeah.

14:44

You know, so what we need to think

14:47

about in in terms of structure investment

14:49

by America. I mean, why are we allowing foreign

14:51

countries to come in and and even have a seat

14:53

at the table? The conversation we've been having just

14:55

as country over the last couple of years is

14:57

automation gonna kill jobs. Like, or nobody's gonna

14:59

have a job anymore. And I'm like,

15:01

look around. It is completely the

15:03

opposite problem. You need more automation because

15:06

we have It improves the labor shift

15:08

because the skill set improves. And and and that's

15:10

kinda what you want. Right? I mean, you you

15:12

want people with a fuller complement

15:14

of skills to be able to address these issues and be

15:16

able to grow into technology and do things

15:18

more efficiently. And and and and the more efficient

15:21

we are, the more environmental friendly we And I

15:23

guarantee, if you ask, even I I bet I bet

15:25

I can find something that we agree with on the unions. Is that

15:27

they probably don't have enough workers? Yeah. No. I think

15:29

that's But we can go into any category.

15:31

I think that's true. So, you know, this this this this this

15:33

strange fear of automation whether it's trucking

15:36

or rail or literally anything

15:38

is is always been a strange one to me. I mean,

15:40

nobody can find workers. That that's separate topic.

15:43

Alright. I we went through that pretty quick, and

15:46

I think I got the down and dirty, which is what

15:48

I wanted to do. What about is there anything we're

15:50

missing on the politics of this and the policy. Where

15:52

where now that this has passed, is it the

15:54

presidential signing is just kinda over, but that's

15:56

not really true either. They could come to a different deal

15:58

December ninth. So December

15:59

ninth is a drop dead day, but I can tell you this and

16:02

you mentioned this before and you're just you have the petrochemical

16:04

industry that's moving. has met.

16:06

They're

16:06

gonna stop right now. They're

16:08

not waiting to descend just doesn't get signed

16:10

because they've gotta they've gotta move their product

16:13

back to home base, and they don't have time. That was

16:15

a problem for me. This is why I was torn on this legislation.

16:17

So the hazmat carriers have

16:20

really they're really under the gun on this deal.

16:22

So they're not waiting till December ninth because

16:24

they can't afford to wait. They can't. Right.

16:26

So they have to start moving now. So this

16:28

is somewhat of a lifeline to the hazmat carriers.

16:30

However, between now and December

16:33

ninth, the

16:34

unions could come to some other agreement, and

16:36

as long as they agree with it, it trumps our

16:38

our legislation. Sorry to imagine

16:40

that. I really mean, why would why would why

16:42

would the the rail companies now

16:44

having this deal? companies have no they have

16:46

no incentive to to to go back to

16:48

the table and say, okay, we'll give you more. Yeah.

16:51

And and they've shown bad faith because eight

16:53

out of the twelve said yes, and the four whole unions

16:55

have shown The unions have show bad

16:57

faith. And so why would they go back to the table?

16:59

Now another good argument that a lot of

17:01

Republicans made, and this is because

17:03

this is frustrating. This is inflationary. I

17:05

mean, you're you're getting a twenty four percent you're adding

17:08

a twenty four percent extra cost to

17:10

the cost of doing business. this

17:12

is inflationary. And it never goes back. Yeah.

17:15

It'll never go back to the baseline. We're not this

17:17

isn't Walmart. We're rolling back prices to

17:19

serve you better. I mean, that's never gonna happen.

17:21

Yeah. So we have set, you know,

17:23

the race to the bar now for the cost

17:25

of rail and who pays for that to

17:27

consumer. And then the question

17:29

is because people are gonna be mad about that. Okay. Republicans

17:32

and why why did some Republicans vote for it? And

17:35

could we have done anything better. Like because

17:37

even I'm I'm thinking I'm trying to think through this even

17:39

if we were completely united against

17:41

it. The democrats still would have passed out of the house.

17:44

not sure, but Democrats could have passed that underlying

17:47

bill on their own. They had a bunch of Should we have said

17:49

should we have stood stronger? I don't I don't

17:51

know. It's The problem is then you risk shutting it

17:53

down. When you have this two

17:55

billion dollar, right, sword of Damocles

17:58

hanging over your head, that's it. Yeah.

18:00

That's the motivator. I mean, nobody likes

18:02

these are the kind of choices we have. Right. And nobody

18:04

likes being in that position. And And

18:06

so That's why I do those podcast is

18:09

because I like I like to to help people understand,

18:11

like yeah. You know,

18:14

it's it's easy to call somebody a rhino for

18:16

this or that. These things are issues

18:18

like this are actually very interesting. It's actually

18:21

rare that we get to have these kind of debates Well, you

18:23

know and I know that you

18:25

can devote no and you're fine. Yeah.

18:27

You can vote no on it. Why even hire a staff?

18:29

if you guys remember why the guys have voted no higher

18:31

staff. Just just get that money back to the taxpayer.

18:34

It's the entire staff. That's what I mean.

18:36

The point is it's hard sometimes to

18:38

vote. Yeah. This is one of those times when

18:40

you just gotta hold your nose and do it and look,

18:43

folks back home get it. We can't hold

18:45

this economy hostage as frail and

18:47

fragile as it is, courtesy of president Biden.

18:49

We can't hold this economy

18:51

hostage at

18:52

at a cost of two billion dollars a day. Right. And that's and

18:54

that's the argument for it. The argument's against

18:56

it. You've heard,

18:58

you

18:58

know, I'll I'll be honest, I voted against it.

19:01

But but, you know, we're I'm

19:03

on an iFetch here. Right? Just just like we

19:05

all are. A lot of Republicans are split

19:07

on this. And so I wanted to explain

19:09

that to the public. Mhmm. think it's an interesting topic.

19:11

Right? Thank much for being on. They're calling us back in because

19:13

we gotta go vote on. Yet another contentious

19:15

subject. We gotta have a podcast on that one too.

19:18

That is a perfect episode. Thanks, man. Appreciate

19:20

it. Of course, Rick. Thanks.