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All right, welcome to hoops tonight here at the Vallume. Have you

1:50

Friday?

1:50

Everybody hopeful?

1:51

If you guys are having an incredible week,

1:53

we got an amazing show for you. Today. We're gonna do a

1:55

good old fashioned obituary on the Los

1:57

Angeles Lakers. Technically it's not over, but I have a

1:59

feeling they're gonna get swept on Saturday.

2:02

I don't think they have the fight to beat these guys, especially

2:04

after how they looked in that third quarter.

2:06

Maybe I'll be wrong, maybe they'll get one.

2:07

But no matter what, NBA history tells

2:09

us that the Los Angeles Lakers are done. So we're gonna

2:11

talk a little bit about what separates them from

2:14

the Denver Nuggets and where they go

2:16

from here. And I can't think of anybody better

2:18

than a good

2:20

friend of mine and somebody who covers the Lakers for the athletic

2:22

mister Jovan Buha. You guys know him. He's been on the

2:24

show a bunch. We're gonna break it all down, you

2:26

guys know the drill before we get started. Subscribe

2:28

to our brand new YouTube channels. You don't miss any more

2:31

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2:33

Jason lt so you guys don't miss any show announcements.

2:35

Don't forget about our podcast feed wherever you get your podcast

2:37

under Hoops tonight. Keep dropping mail back questions

2:40

in the YouTube comments. We're gonna hit a couple of mail bags

2:42

a week throughout the end of the season

2:44

and the last, but not.

2:45

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2:46

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2:49

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2:51

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2:53

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2:55

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2:58

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3:00

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4:06

Yovon. So in

4:08

this you know, obviously disappointing

4:11

start to this series, I think it's also

4:13

been deeply informative. It's been

4:16

confirming of some of the things that we've thought

4:18

throughout the season. But I want to

4:20

kind of start with the Nuggets a little

4:22

bit because in the Lakers pursuit

4:25

of trying to address these issues, whether

4:27

it's them trying to reconfigure

4:30

around Lebron in ad this offseason

4:32

to try to make another run at it, or if it's

4:34

a pivot, I think a great

4:37

team for them to try to emulate is the

4:39

Denver Nuggets, a team that I think is not

4:41

just the defending champion, but I think the legitimate

4:43

favorite this year for a reason, and a

4:45

team that I believe has a real chance to

4:48

go on an extended dynastic

4:50

run here. And So, what has this series

4:53

taught you about the difference

4:55

between a real championship team like the Nuggets

4:58

and the Lakers.

5:01

Well, to me, it's been the killer

5:04

instinct of the Denver Nuggets. Before

5:06

the game, I asked Nuggets head coach

5:08

Michael Malone, you've beaten this team

5:10

ten straight times, Like, how do you battle

5:13

the complacency with your

5:15

group, just not thinking we're

5:17

going to show up and beat this team

5:19

because we've done it head times in a row,

5:21

and at some point human nature starts

5:24

to kick in with a certain level of complacency,

5:27

even in a playoff setting. And

5:29

he essentially said, you know, as a coach,

5:31

that is what I have to battle and that

5:34

the message has been. We were down twelve

5:36

in game one, we were down twenty in

5:38

Game two. We're now on the road, We're

5:41

facing a hostile crowd,

5:43

and you know, the Lakers want to beat

5:45

us after losing ten straight times. So like

5:48

the messages, don't get

5:50

off to a slow start, don't turn the ball over,

5:52

and keep the crowd out of the game, and

5:55

the Nuggets did none of those things

5:57

to start that game. The Lakers got off to

5:59

an eight zero run. The crowd

6:02

was as loud as I've heard it all season.

6:04

It was deafening pitch,

6:07

and it was the start that the Lakers

6:09

needed if they were going to win a game

6:11

against the Nuggets. And lo and

6:13

behold my opinion, Denver had their

6:15

worst half of the series

6:18

in that first half of Game three,

6:20

turning the ball over, missing open

6:22

threes, and really just struggling

6:25

on both ends, yet they were only down

6:27

four. Then they opened the second half with

6:29

a twenty four to ten run, And to

6:31

me, this team has just won the

6:33

mental game against the Lakers. They

6:36

have gotten stronger in second halfs.

6:38

They've outscored the Lakers by thirty one points

6:40

through the three third quarters in

6:42

this series, plus forty two overall

6:45

in the second half, So we've seen it. The Lakers

6:47

have thrown their bench their best punch early

6:50

and they've gotten out to these double digit leads.

6:52

They've led at halftime in all three games.

6:55

They've led at halftime in seven of the

6:57

eleven consecutive losses to Denver,

7:00

and then Denver just takes over in the second half. It's

7:02

the same movie on repeat, but

7:04

for Denver to have that level

7:07

of just killer instinct and

7:10

seriousness and professionalism and

7:13

lack of complacency to do the

7:15

same thing over and over again, and regardless

7:18

of Lebron's getting downhill in transition

7:20

eighties cooking them with fourteen consecutive

7:22

made shots in Game two, like they don't care.

7:25

They run their offense the same way. Everybody

7:28

is locked in. They play team

7:30

basketball on both ends, and you

7:32

don't see guys complaining. You don't see guys

7:34

pointing figures, you don't see guys going at

7:36

the refs, and they just play a

7:38

serious brand of basketball. It reminds me a lot

7:40

of ways of the San Antonio Spurs

7:43

and the way that they built that dynasty of

7:45

it didn't matter who's doing what. Obviously

7:48

you had Tim Duncan as the head of the snake. In this case it's

7:50

Nikola Jokic. You had Tony Parker,

7:52

and Jamal Murray is the analog there.

7:55

But just the level of no matter

7:57

what's happening, they're never rattled and that's

7:59

why you see them close a game to making

8:02

seven consecutive shots against the Lakers, like

8:04

they are one of the best crunch time teams

8:06

I've ever seen period. I

8:08

think, like we could talk about where they rank all the time,

8:11

and I think they're higher than I

8:13

think most people would assume at this point. But

8:15

to me, the crunch time, the

8:18

focus, and just the mental advantage

8:20

that they've had on the Lakers through these eleven straight

8:22

wins, that to me has been what has

8:24

stood out the most.

8:26

Yeah, you know that specific piece

8:28

about that first half and that

8:30

being one of the worst halfs they've have, they've

8:33

played, I agree as it

8:35

pertains to their ceiling, but

8:38

their floor is still so high.

8:40

And that first half.

8:42

Was really a great example in the sense that like, no

8:44

matter what whether or not Mpj's

8:47

hitting the threes he normally hits or

8:49

if Jamal Murray and Nikole

8:51

Jokic and their kind of decision making is

8:53

as sharper as sloppy as

8:56

it can get from time to time, Like Aaron

8:58

Gordon is still six ten for key athlete and

9:00

working underneath the basket and so like,

9:03

even though like even if

9:05

you look within that first half, like the Lakers were

9:07

sharp in a lot of areas in that first

9:09

half, but a specific area where

9:11

they were weak is Lebron James on

9:13

the back line was just doing a really poor

9:15

job of reading. Reading

9:18

that there is a read and react

9:21

with that low man position in the

9:23

sense that like there you do

9:25

have help responsibilities, but you also

9:27

have Aaron Gordon responsibilities, and you kind of have

9:30

to tow that line between the two. And

9:32

for the record, in the first two games, I thought Lebron

9:34

was really good in that role. But

9:36

I don't know if it was just I

9:38

don't know if Lebron lost faith after

9:41

the collapse in Game two. I don't

9:43

know if it was just literally just a bad night,

9:46

but literally from the opening tip, he

9:48

just wasn't as sharp in that specific area,

9:50

and so like it's like the Lakers had all these

9:52

areas kind of tied up in that first half,

9:55

but that one opening

9:57

Aaron Gordon just smashed through and Don

10:00

Mad the first half of that game right, Like there

10:02

was a like Jamal Murray, even

10:04

though he was relatively unefficient

10:06

throughout the series, inefficient throughout the series,

10:09

he just had these little stretches in each

10:11

series where he was really good. I thought a shot making

10:13

was really good in the third quarter of Game

10:16

one, obviously, down the stretch and crunch time of

10:18

Game two. I thought in the second quarter, early

10:20

second quarter of Game three, he just

10:22

hit a bunch of timely shots, right. And

10:24

like, one of the things with Denver is their floor

10:27

is so high that like

10:29

even if you managed to kind of outplay them

10:31

for stretches, as soon as you dip

10:34

and if they just start to gain

10:36

ground, right, And then honestly, I thought

10:38

Denver threw a really good punch in that early third

10:41

quarter stretch and then you could just literally

10:43

see the Lakers like go of the rope. And that's

10:45

where I want to get to the part you talked about with being serious

10:47

and being professional, because that, to me

10:49

was the biggest thing that stood out

10:51

to me about this particular matchup. The

10:53

stuff about floor versus ceiling,

10:56

That to me is more of a total first

10:58

round kind of like take away. In general,

11:00

I think we're learning that like players

11:03

with higher floors are more valuable in

11:05

the postseason than players with higher ceilings.

11:07

KCP doesn't have the ceiling

11:09

that de Lo has, but night and night

11:11

out in the playoffs, he's just a more impactful

11:14

player.

11:14

His floor is higher.

11:15

Right, But as we go to the seriousness

11:18

when it comes to the Nuggets, they're one

11:20

of the most important parts about a championship championship

11:23

team in my opinion, is like the

11:25

discipline and focus on a possession by

11:27

possession basis by each player within

11:30

what their job is and what they're expected to

11:32

do. Aaron Gordon after the game talked about

11:34

this like, I'm just doing what my team needs

11:36

to win. He dominated that game, not by

11:38

dominating offensive possessions, not by

11:40

being this devastating on ball defensive

11:43

threat that was just putting his on his

11:45

offensive player in jail. No, he just his

11:48

job within the scheme is to kind of like clean

11:50

up stuff on the back line offensively

11:53

and clean up stuff on the back line defensively.

11:55

And and like he just capitalized

11:58

on what was happening within that game

12:00

and he kind of broke through that opening like we talked about,

12:02

right, he did his job and

12:04

within that context, he was the hero

12:06

of that particular game. But he wouldn't trying

12:08

to be the hero. He's just doing his job.

12:11

Every single one of these guys has a job. Even Michael

12:13

Porter Junior, as gifted as he is offensively,

12:15

like, one of the most important roles he has on this

12:17

team is he's a dominant rebounder. And

12:20

that's what they got forty nine points and

12:22

twenty five rebounds out of Michael Porter

12:24

Junior and Aaron Gordon last night.

12:25

That's completely insane.

12:27

And when you look over at the Lakers side of it,

12:29

it's like there's always these

12:32

random possessions where a random

12:34

player will just kind of bite off more

12:36

than he can chew offensively and take an overly

12:38

difficult shot. There is like ten

12:40

to fifteen possession stretches where

12:42

they're really laser focused on

12:45

all the details, and then there's ten to fifteen

12:47

possession sequences where they're not. It's

12:50

not a consistent part of their basketball

12:52

character. And when you talk about professionalism

12:54

and serious basketball, to me, it's

12:56

about that possession by possession,

12:59

do your job every single time. If

13:01

you see them make a mistake or go off script,

13:03

it's usually like they'll do it once and then

13:05

Mike malonill lose his mind and yell at them,

13:08

and then and then they're right back on track

13:10

by the next possession, And like that just

13:12

was not you know it

13:15

ironically, and this is the last thing I'll say about it,

13:18

it ironically reminded me of just the entire

13:20

Laker regular season, which was

13:22

like, if you caught them on the right night and

13:25

you watch them, you're like, this team has championship

13:27

potential. Look at how serious these guys

13:30

are, look at how focused they are. This

13:32

is what they're capable of. But then two nights

13:35

later against Brooklyn, they would just be terrible,

13:37

you know, like they were never a team

13:40

that could hold on to the rope consistently,

13:43

like a real championship team for the

13:46

entirety of the season, you know what I mean. And

13:48

so within these games, if you

13:51

watched a ten minute sequence, you'd be like, man, the Lakers

13:53

are right there with Denver. But then eventually

13:55

they'd let go of the rope and Denver's

13:58

serious approach would take over. And I

14:00

think it was really really informative,

14:02

not just about what the Nuggets are

14:04

and what makes them so great, but also just

14:06

like team building and coaching and different

14:09

aspects like that that I think set

14:11

set that that are preventing the Lakers

14:14

from getting where they need to go. On

14:16

that note, kind

14:18

of moving towards the role players, obviously

14:21

that was the biggest gap in this series. I

14:23

pulled the numbers last night. I'll

14:25

pull them up again here in just a second, but it

14:28

was a complete and total outclassing by

14:30

the guys down the roster. As a matter of fact,

14:32

non Lebron ad Lakers had one hundred and

14:34

thirty one points and fifty six rebounds through

14:36

three games. Non Murray Jokic

14:38

Nuggets had one hundred and eighty points and eighty

14:41

three rebounds. So what did you

14:43

learn specifically about the Laker role

14:45

players in this series and where

14:47

do you think they fell short compared to the championship

14:50

baseline.

14:52

First, to me, the Lakers are just too small,

14:55

and that was a concern for me entering

14:57

the season, and I think that has played

14:59

out specific in this matchup. If

15:01

you look at the starting lineups

15:03

and compare them head to head at each nominal

15:06

position, the Nuggets have the size

15:08

and physicality advantage at all five spots.

15:11

Nikola Jokic is bigger and stronger than

15:13

Anthony Davis. Aaron Gordon is

15:15

bigger and slightly stronger than Lebron

15:18

James. I think they're pretty similar, but he's

15:20

slightly bigger, taller.

15:23

Yeah, yeah, he's about an inch taller.

15:24

And like I mean, in terms of who's won the paint

15:26

battle, battling

15:29

for rebounds and stuff, like, Aaron Gordon has dominated

15:32

that.

15:32

So Michael Porter Junior is

15:34

not as.

15:35

Strong as Ruy Hutchimra, but he's

15:37

taller than him, and he has dominated

15:39

the rebounding battle.

15:40

Last you just mentioned it.

15:41

Last night, MPJ had ten rebounds, Ruyu

15:44

Chimra had two, and MPJ did

15:46

play more minutes, but it was about a ten minute

15:48

difference, so it wasn't like enough of a

15:50

difference to warrant the eight rebound gap.

15:52

There.

15:53

Austin Reeves and KCP are similar sizes,

15:55

but KCP plays with more

15:58

verve and physicality and just more

16:00

athleticism. And then D'Angel Russell

16:02

versus Jamal Murray, I think that that

16:05

one I don't even have to go into. But Jamal,

16:07

you know, similar sizes again, but Jamal plays with

16:09

a certain level of toughness and physicality.

16:11

So like just that's before you

16:13

even get to get to the bench.

16:14

And like Peyton Watson, Christian Brown, these

16:16

guys are coming in hounding ball handlers,

16:18

getting offensive rebounds, blocking shots,

16:20

finishing in transition. So like I

16:22

thought the Lakers got dominated from

16:24

I mean, we talked about the mental side, and clearly

16:27

Denver has them in a psychological choke

16:29

hold there. But on the physical

16:31

side, like Denver is just bigger, they're

16:34

stronger, they're more athletic, and

16:36

they use their physicality

16:38

in a better way. Like I think something that

16:40

hasn't been talked about enough is Denver's won

16:42

the free throw battle in two of these three games,

16:44

and like that's supposed to be one of the few strengths

16:47

the Lakers had over Denver was they

16:49

get to the free throw line way more than them. They

16:52

don't foul as much obviously, so like

16:54

the Lakers. I know you've touched

16:56

on the free throw differential before, but like that

16:58

is an advantage for the Lakers, you

17:00

know, based on how they play offensively

17:02

and how they don't foul. Yeah, Denver's won the

17:04

free throw battle in two of the three games. They've

17:07

won the points in the paint battle in two of the three

17:09

games. So Denver has beaten the Lakers

17:11

like they've they've played their style of basketball, but they've

17:13

also beaten the Lakers at their own game.

17:15

And when the Lakers have played smaller

17:18

front lines or like size front lines,

17:20

they dominate them and they kick their ass and they look

17:23

great. When they play a team that's bigger than them,

17:25

it's been the opposite. And I think for

17:27

me, the fact that the Jackson Hayes was a dnp

17:30

CD in Game three

17:32

just shows like the Lakers never

17:35

really addressed the backup center spot. Jackson

17:37

had some nice moments over the last couple months

17:40

of the season. Christian Wood, to

17:42

me, like never really panned out and shot

17:44

thirty one percent on threes, had some good

17:46

moments as like a rebounder, and defensively,

17:49

they think about like Kevin Durant against

17:51

the Suns, but like that was the beginning of the season, and

17:54

I think Christian Wood overall was a bit of a disappointment.

17:57

So the fact that the.

17:58

Lakers never really added another big

18:01

man that was defensive minded, you

18:03

know, a clear plus rebounder, a guy who could

18:05

just inning Z for eight to

18:07

fifteen minutes and spell Ad

18:10

and defend Jokich and give him a few hard

18:12

fouls, similar to what Dwight Howard did in

18:14

the twenty twenty series. Like that, to

18:16

me, what was a weakness of this roster and

18:18

the fact that Ruy Hachimura in

18:21

an elimination games, playing twenty eight minutes and you're

18:23

going small with Torrian Prince at the

18:25

four, or you're going with these three guard

18:27

lineups and you're giving up all these offensive

18:29

rebounds and again just getting physically dominated.

18:32

Like part of that's on the coaching staff and the way that

18:34

they're deploying these guys, but part of that is

18:36

a roster construction issue. So to me, biggest

18:38

takeaway overall was just too small, but

18:40

also I think just not good enough. And if

18:42

we're ranking the starting lineups

18:44

in terms of the best players in the series,

18:47

like five through seven, five through

18:50

eight might be all of the rest

18:52

of the Nuggets starting lineup and

18:54

the fact that they arguably have the two best

18:56

players in the series depending on you know, especially

18:59

in crunch time with Jamal, but like they

19:01

have the best player. Jamal has outplayed

19:03

Lebron and eighty for stretches, and then

19:05

you have Aaron Gordon, CACP

19:08

and MPJ all thoroughly out

19:10

playing Austin Dilo and RUI like

19:12

that just can't happen. And I don't think the bench outplayed

19:15

LA's bench like I think Christian Brown and

19:17

Peyton Watson have been more impactful than anyone

19:19

off the Lakers bench, just with again their

19:21

defense, their rebounding, their energy, and

19:24

their finishing and transition, so like from

19:27

top to bottom, and then the coaching the adjustments

19:29

like Denver has decisively won this.

19:32

I think it's even been more of a gap than

19:34

the scoreboard indicates. So I

19:37

just think Denvers is bigger and they're

19:39

better.

19:40

No, I agree the piece about the

19:42

role players off the bench, actually, like Christian Brown

19:44

and Payton Watson kind of brings me back to that seriousness

19:47

and professionalism piece, Like those two

19:49

guys just come in and it's like all we need

19:51

you to do is be athletic wrecking balls within the

19:53

context of these specific responsibilities on the

19:55

floor, those dudes come in and they buy in and they do it. And

19:57

so once again, those guys have a certain flow,

20:00

like you can expect Christian Brown and Peyton Watson

20:02

to have a certain amount of impact just with their athleticism.

20:04

Whereas it's like Okay, Spencer Dinwood he checked

20:06

in. It's like maybe these threes will

20:09

go in, you know, and it's and and we'll

20:11

see what happens, right. I also

20:13

the bit about Jackson Hayes, like in the in the

20:15

moment last night, I'm sitting there thinking like this,

20:19

to me was one of the fundamental issues with Darvin Haam

20:21

during the entire darvinham experience. And

20:23

we're gonna talk about Darvin in a bigger context

20:26

later, but he just always defaulted

20:28

more towards offensive skill and speed and

20:31

and not towards size and athleticism.

20:34

And I thought last night, when

20:36

the chips were down, him

20:38

being like, no Jackson, just a lot

20:41

more three guard lineups was a pretty

20:43

strong indicator of like Darvin's

20:46

kind of basketball philosophy, which I think is flawed.

20:49

And then also like that

20:51

within this particular matchup that that was

20:53

the death Wish. And one of the problems

20:55

too, is you know, the Lakers,

20:57

just their guards weren't playing well, so like

21:00

you're leaning into guard play when your

21:02

guards are getting their ass kicked. It didn't make

21:04

any sense to me in the moment. But you

21:06

know you mentioned size. I agree.

21:09

I think it's a little deeper than size, and it

21:12

I would just call it like overall

21:14

physicality in the sense that it's

21:16

not just height, it's

21:18

even at these specific position these

21:21

positions, these guys play with more force,

21:23

like you mentioned KCP versus Austin

21:25

Reeves like Austin, and

21:27

we're gonna talk about Austin rue Like I thought

21:29

Austin and Ruey were trying

21:32

to do their jobs. I just thought they didn't

21:35

play well. Like Austin and Ruiy

21:37

Bolth just had nightmare series. I saw that clip of

21:39

Austin hugging Phil

21:42

Handy and it looked like he said, it's my fault,

21:44

and like you could just tell he was heartbroken. And I felt

21:47

bad for Austin because, like Austin really defended

21:49

Jamal Murray well for the first

21:51

seven quarters of this series, and

21:54

I thought he did his job he just couldn't

21:56

make shots. And ruly,

21:58

I thought was given a really difficult role

22:00

too to guard Jokich to start

22:02

the series, and you could tell that kind

22:05

of sap to him of his confidence and then he was

22:07

just never able to regather it. But like

22:09

other than those guys, it was a lot of unseious

22:12

basketball. But above

22:14

and beyond that, it was the

22:16

lack of physical force that they could bring to the table.

22:19

KCP brings physical force, Aaron

22:21

Gordon brings physical force. MPJ

22:23

with his length, brings physical

22:25

force to the table. Christian Brown brings physical

22:28

force. Peyton Watson brings physical

22:30

force. Austin doesn't. That's not

22:32

in his toolkit. Delo doesn't.

22:34

That's not in his toolkit. Ruy does.

22:37

But they stuck him consistently in matchups

22:39

in this series where he couldn't, you know, because they

22:41

were using they're basically using him to eat up

22:43

minutes right on Jokis for

22:46

about half the series to this point. But

22:48

like Spencer Dinwoodie is probably

22:50

the best athlete of the role players,

22:52

and he's not a very good athlete, right

22:55

Gabe Vincent has a certain force

22:57

that he brings, but he's just small, you

22:59

know, And so like that. That to me was the

23:01

big thing that stood out. It just is like down

23:04

the roster, there's just not enough physical

23:06

force. And when you go back and you look at

23:08

the twenty twenty Lakers, that was a huge

23:11

element of what made them great. Alex Crusoe,

23:13

Contavious Callwell, Pope, Dwight Howard,

23:16

Kyle Kuzma, that was a huge part of what made them great.

23:18

Even Danny Green, it was just a big, strong

23:20

two guard, right. And you know, honestly,

23:23

it was funny when I was looking back, when I look

23:25

back at kind of the the last

23:27

few years, even if you just

23:29

erase one singular mistake, like

23:33

there was a lot of panic trades and stupid

23:35

stuff that happened over the last couple of years. But

23:37

if they had just held on to Crusoe,

23:40

if they had just held on to Crusoe, which

23:42

by the way, wouldn't have cost you any asset or

23:45

anything. It would have just cost money out of Genie Bus's

23:47

pocket, a lot of money

23:49

because of the luxury tax, but money

23:51

and money that probably she would have

23:53

recouped through the success of the team, in my opinion,

23:56

So if they just had Carusoe,

23:59

and your lookoking at Austin Alex

24:02

as your back court instead of Austin Dilo

24:05

fundamentally changes the athletic profile of the team,

24:07

slots everybody into easier roles defensively,

24:09

Now, instead of Austin have to chase around to Jamal Murray,

24:11

it's Alex Cruso chasing around Jamal Murray.

24:14

And instead of d LO and him

24:16

be uh, you know, space case space

24:19

cadet trying to chase around KCP, it's

24:22

Alex or excuse me, it's Austin Reeves,

24:24

who's a very focused defender who

24:27

would be guarding KCP. And then everything makes so

24:29

much more sense. And so, I you know, there's

24:31

a lot, there's a lot to dig into with the eulogy

24:33

here, but like that that

24:35

piece, that piece about physical force off

24:38

the ball, especially when the content within the context

24:40

of the physicality of the postseason shines

24:43

through. What did you make of Dlo's

24:46

night last night? Where are you at with DLO

24:48

as a player, and where do you think

24:50

the team and the organization is at with Delo

24:53

right now?

24:55

I mean, I just don't know how

24:58

you can move forward with the on

25:00

this roster if you consider yourself

25:02

a serious championship

25:05

contender. Or at least have serious

25:07

championship aspirations, because this

25:10

is now two out of the three games in

25:12

this series where he's been harmful,

25:14

and I think he was actually probably more harmful in

25:16

Game one because he was taking possessions

25:19

away from Lebron and Ady and

25:21

to me, calling his own number a little

25:23

bit too frequently, and you

25:26

know it did have a poor shooting night, but I thought

25:28

more so, I thought inside the arc this

25:30

series, he was oddly

25:33

you know, kind of calling it like looking for those

25:35

little mid range pull ups and step

25:38

backs and fadeaways that he

25:40

never was able to create separation

25:43

with. So they always ended up being either

25:45

you know, contests from the

25:48

front side or rear view contests

25:50

where a KCP a Christian Brown and Peyton

25:52

Watson were able to stick with him, slither

25:55

around the pick and roll and then bother him

25:57

from behind. So I thought, like, the

25:59

three point shooting is what it is, Like he got

26:01

a bunch of good looks, didn't convert, But to

26:03

me, him kind of calling his own number in the

26:05

pick and roll what was ultimately

26:08

harmful and he just was never able

26:10

to create the separation necessary

26:13

to make those shots. Because to me, Dilo is

26:15

a guy who does need a level

26:17

of separation and if you can get into his airspace,

26:19

you were going to bother him, as we've seen in

26:22

this series. But to me, it's been

26:24

six of the seven games in these in

26:26

the last two playoff series against Denver, like

26:30

he was. I mean, go back and look at the Western Conference

26:32

Finals. He was bad in all four games.

26:34

He's been bad in two of the three games

26:36

got bench last night. There was the video

26:38

clip of him off to the side of the huddle.

26:41

He does do that sometimes, but I think optically

26:43

that was a terrible time to do that,

26:45

and he just looked incredibly disengaged

26:48

at that point. He ducked out on media

26:50

last night. We requested him, he declined

26:52

to speak. He also declined a couple

26:54

times in the Western Conference Finals, declined

26:57

at times earlier this season.

26:59

So like when he's not.

27:00

Playing well and things aren't going well, he

27:03

kind of ducks out. And I think

27:05

that just that in the

27:07

the like, you know, and

27:10

he's.

27:10

Not like we talked about.

27:11

You just mentioned Austin and Ruey and how those

27:13

guys just had tough series, like but they were

27:15

still trying and trying to

27:17

do their job and being competitive and I think

27:19

I look at Austin of like how much has defending

27:22

Jamal Murray and chasing him around screens

27:24

and getting smacked by

27:27

Nikola Jokic, but in screens,

27:29

like how much has that sapped his legs and affected

27:31

him? And I think Austin He's had a couple

27:34

of games, a couple of good rebounding games.

27:36

He's been competitive defensively, and

27:38

I think even though he's miss shots, he's

27:40

brought the requisite competitiveness and

27:42

spirit that has not been the case with de

27:44

Loo, and you've seen him shrink. I

27:46

think in both Game one and Game

27:48

three, and even in Game two, I thought he got off

27:51

to a hot start, obviously had the six

27:53

threes in the first half, ends up making seven,

27:55

but had a very quiet second

27:57

half and rest of the way.

28:00

So I just I think this is exposed.

28:02

A bit of the ceiling on the

28:05

Austin del pairing. I think those

28:07

two probably have to be split up, as we had

28:10

kind of talked about at times this season. I

28:12

don't think you can have those two be your

28:14

backcourt. I think a guy like an Alex

28:16

Caruso or someone with a bit more

28:18

force and maybe a bit

28:21

more defense would fit better

28:23

next to an Austin But to me,

28:25

like you and I talked about this, and I

28:28

will read through the comments on our

28:30

videos and sometimes there are people going at

28:32

us. For you, guys don't like Delo.

28:35

Delo is clearly the third best player, Like I

28:37

don't want to hear that anymore.

28:38

You will never the third best player. Just

28:40

get the fuck out of here with that.

28:42

Austin Reeves is better than Austin. Reeves is better

28:44

than him. He's a better playoff performer than him. And

28:47

it's not to make it in Austin Delo thing. It's

28:49

just that there was a reason why

28:51

we were talking about the Lakers

28:53

trading him. There's a reason why the Lakers were strongly

28:55

considering trading him for most

28:58

of the season. So in

29:00

terms of where they go from here, Dealo has an

29:02

eighteen point seven million dollar player option. I

29:04

think he's cost himself money with this series.

29:07

I think you can still make the case he's

29:09

a twenty to twenty five million dollars a year player.

29:12

I don't know if that is a twenty to twenty five

29:14

million dollar player on a good team,

29:16

on a contending team.

29:18

I don't think it is.

29:19

But if you're a lottery team or a team

29:21

looking to kind of take the next step into maybe

29:24

we're a nine to ten seed and we want to be like

29:26

a seven to eight seed. I think Dealer makes

29:28

sense for you, So I would not be surprised if he still

29:31

has a competitive market this summer. But

29:33

if you're the Lakers and you are serious about trying

29:35

to win a championship, I do not see

29:37

how you can make any reasonable argument to

29:39

bring back D'Angel Russell when you know Denver's

29:42

not going anywhere. They're gonna be here for the next three to

29:44

four years and you're gonna have to go through them

29:46

to win a championship. And I just don't think

29:48

he can play in a series against

29:51

Denver, which is really like a conference finals

29:53

final series. I think it's fine first round,

29:55

second round against normal teams, and

29:58

even then he's a bit of up and down against

30:00

serious, high level conference

30:02

finals finals teams.

30:03

I don't think you can play him.

30:05

And that's a problem for a guy that

30:07

the Lakers have been kind of billing as their third

30:09

guy, and he's just completely shrunk.

30:12

And this is, honestly, that's surprising.

30:14

We saw it last year, We've seen it at times with

30:16

him in the playoffs, and I think

30:18

the Lakers, whether it's a sign and trade, whether it's letting

30:20

him walk, or whether it's he

30:22

opts in and trading him, Like, I think

30:24

you have to move on. It's just a matter of how

30:27

that happens and when it happens.

30:29

Yeah, you know, when it comes to del I think

30:31

that I think you and I both

30:35

were aware of this going in

30:37

into the postseason. If you go back to the trade deadline, you and

30:40

I both talked about like we already know that

30:42

this Austin Delo pairing has a certain ceiling to it.

30:44

And by the way, going into the season, going into

30:46

the regular season, you and I were like, Lakers

30:49

are a second tier championship contender,

30:52

and if they make a trade to address

30:54

the Austin Delo pairing, which we knew was

30:56

flawed after the Denver series last year,

30:59

then they might be able to enter into that top tier

31:01

if they were to get a Bruce Brown, if they were to get a Dejontay

31:04

Murray, a real athletic two way player

31:06

at that two guard position, right, Like, how much better would

31:08

de Jontay Murray have been in this series for

31:11

for the Lakers to try to.

31:12

Try to hang.

31:13

Just think, just think about what we watched

31:15

over the last three games and replaced

31:18

d LO with Dejontay Murray, and just imagine

31:20

how different the series looks. It's

31:23

very, very different on so many different levels.

31:25

Right, Not only does Jonte guard Jamal Murray the whole

31:27

series, He's a guy that brings dribble penetration,

31:29

which would have helped a lot within these half court kind

31:32

of slow down environments that the the

31:34

two man game that him and Lebron could have had in

31:36

a lot of these situations, it would have been it would have been really

31:39

effective.

31:39

Right Now, here's the thing.

31:40

I'm not talking about the

31:43

deadline per se, because here's the thing I think the

31:45

I think the Lakers went after de Jonte and couldn't get him.

31:47

So I'm not I'm not trying to criticize

31:49

the front office in that specific context. My

31:51

point is is just we knew Austin

31:54

Dilo had a ceiling, and we knew that

31:56

if they could have upgraded d LO they would have been

31:58

better off. They couldn't because of the

32:00

landscape. And I don't think they could

32:02

have gotten Bruce Brown either, just by virtue of the price

32:04

tag.

32:04

And all this stuff.

32:05

So you and I kind of went into this postseason

32:07

knowing like like they got

32:09

their puncher's chance if you happen to get

32:12

a really hot Delo performance, But

32:15

there's not really much there. And like the

32:17

what's really stood out to me with Delos he took

32:20

his humiliation at the hands of Bruce Brown last

32:22

year and he took it into the offseason

32:25

and worked on his ceiling.

32:26

Worked.

32:27

I think, he worked on his jump shot, he worked on

32:30

some of his pick and roll playmaking stuff, and he

32:32

definitely won up a level this year. Delo

32:34

played the best basketball of his career in the springtime, there's

32:36

no doubt, but he never addressed

32:39

his floor. And this is where

32:41

I think the criticism is fair, because Delo talked

32:43

a big game. Not only in

32:45

this series did he say after Game two that he thought

32:47

that they were still gonna win. But if we go back

32:49

a few months after a big night, he

32:51

talked about how he wanted all the smoke

32:54

straight up said it. He said he wanted all

32:56

the smoke go back to the beginning of the

32:58

season. He was in the the training

33:00

camp pressers, the

33:03

media day interview saying the guy

33:05

I want to emulate is Derek White. He's

33:07

the guy I want to be like, No, you don't.

33:10

Derek White didn't didn't

33:13

put in work to address his own

33:15

individual ceiling. Derek White's

33:17

floor is what makes him great. It's all about

33:19

his focus and attention to detail

33:22

in the margins of the game, not how

33:24

good he is running a pick and roll or how good he

33:26

is attacking closeouts or hitting spot up

33:28

threes. That's not what made Derek White great.

33:30

And so Dilo talked about all this stuff,

33:33

but it's abundantly clear with what happened

33:35

that he doesn't actually get it. And because

33:37

he leaned into his ceiling, there was a certain volatility

33:40

with him. And it's interesting because if you

33:42

actually go back, the Lakers have played a bunch of big

33:44

games in a row. They've played seven massive

33:47

regular season games or eight massive games

33:49

in a row. Right, you have the

33:52

Golden State game, Delo was

33:54

abysmal. You have the Minnesota

33:57

game, Dilo was abysmal, and those were

33:59

really important games. If you win

34:02

one of those games, you're the sixth

34:04

seed and you're playing Minnesota right now,

34:06

and I would have picked the Lakers to beat Minnesota. You

34:08

win one of those games, Okay, instead

34:11

you get two stinkers.

34:12

He doesn't play well.

34:12

Right, plays really well against the Pelicans

34:15

in both games, Right, we can agree on

34:17

that. Then he's a bismal in game one,

34:19

pretty good in Game two, abismoal in game three.

34:21

So like four times in

34:23

this last seven game stretch where they were

34:25

playing all of these monumentally

34:28

important games, he was not

34:30

just bad, but like damaging

34:32

bad. And that's the problem is it's

34:35

not the ceiling. We all know what d Lo's ceiling

34:37

is. His floor is just so incredibly

34:40

low. And when we talk about the offseason, I

34:43

actually disagree with you as it pertains to him being

34:45

a twenty twenty five million dollar player. Maybe I'll be wrong,

34:47

and maybe it'll be a bad team that swoops in

34:49

and offers him some money. I do think he has

34:51

some value as a regular season skill guard,

34:54

a lot of value as a regular season skill guard.

34:56

I think, on a you can probably bank

34:58

on fifty pretty good games out of him, and

35:01

that's going to give you a chance to hold some ground in the

35:03

standings. But like when I really

35:05

look at an NBA team

35:07

looking at skill guards that

35:10

are not necessarily guys that you're

35:12

going to lean on and you're closing five in

35:14

a big playoff game. The

35:16

market last year for that type of player

35:18

that was kind of the Gabe

35:21

Vincent Dennis Schroeder tier,

35:24

right like, and those guys were making

35:26

the mid level exception, that's what they were making.

35:29

And so here's

35:31

the thing.

35:32

I think if Delo opts out right right

35:34

right now, I think he's on the books for nineteen million

35:36

next year, like eighteen and a half million next year. So

35:38

like yeah, so like if some team

35:40

offers him three years for thirty six or two years for

35:42

twenty five or something like two years for twenty four, whatever it

35:44

is that the MLE, I think that'll

35:47

be a deal that he potentially looks to take because

35:49

I think after next year it's possible that he enters

35:51

into the veteran minimum contract territory if

35:53

it, like with some of his limitation, right, But

35:55

like, I don't know that

35:57

he'll get twenty to twenty five. Maybe he will. But

36:00

like if I'm if I'm looking at d Lo as

36:02

an asset league wide next year,

36:04

I'm looking at him as a sixth man, a

36:06

guy that is clearly not in my

36:08

top five. So that I know that when

36:11

push comes to shove. I'm closing with my closing

36:13

group, but I can make some night

36:15

Tonight calls with him with his minutes based

36:17

on whether or not he's engaged in hitting shots. And

36:20

most more importantly, I'm using him as a regular season

36:22

innings eater, So I think there's some value

36:24

there.

36:25

But yeah, I don't, I don't. I think I

36:27

agree with you entirely.

36:28

If you're a serious basketball team,

36:31

you cannot you cannot have this guy

36:33

in your top five players.

36:34

You just can't like it.

36:36

Just he doesn't get it.

36:38

He doesn't get it, And like I

36:41

thought, the best example of that was him talking

36:43

about Derek White before the season as his own

36:45

little player comp and then his

36:47

lack of attention to detail in the margins

36:49

of the game during this postseason run,

36:52

Like I think, I think it's been. It could not

36:54

be more stark, the difference between

36:56

what he's actually doing on the floor and the

36:58

game that he talks. And I think that that goes

37:00

to show you that there's actually a disconnect

37:03

mentally between where Delo needs

37:05

to improve and where Delo thinks he needs

37:07

to improve. And I think those are going

37:09

to be areas that kind of hold him back moving

37:11

on, to the to the offseason. So

37:14

obviously the Lakers have a lot of questions to address.

37:17

I want to start with Darvin. So here's

37:20

the thing. I don't think Darvin is responsible

37:22

for the Lakers losing to Denver. I

37:25

do think he's responsible for the Lakers having ended

37:27

up as the seventh seed. I've said this on

37:30

the record, but like, I think his mistakes

37:32

with the rotation in late December and early

37:34

January probably cost the

37:36

Lakers three four

37:38

games in the standings. Even if

37:40

it's just two or three games, you're

37:42

out of the plane. So like, I think

37:44

they would have been in that Clippers, MAVs,

37:47

Suns, Wolves kind of tier there

37:49

in the or I should say Clippers, Suns, MAVs tier

37:52

in that four through six range, right, And

37:54

I think I think that that is

37:57

fair criticism of darviin I

38:00

you think the reason they lost to Denver is Denver's a

38:02

better basketball team. That said,

38:04

I do think you saw some of the

38:06

the jarring elements of Darvin

38:09

kind of being in over his head in this series.

38:12

An example Number one, Mike Malone

38:15

super active coaching on the sidelines,

38:17

accountability with his players every time

38:20

someone makes a mistake. He's screaming at him.

38:21

He's yelling.

38:22

There's accountability, there's active coaching

38:24

on the sidelines. Darvin is very much

38:26

passive, staying in their hands, in his pockets. He's very

38:28

much like a positive kind of motivator type of

38:30

guy, right And which which, by the way,

38:32

just like like you, there's a certain

38:35

intensity and verve that you're expecting from the players,

38:37

And I think it makes sense that the coach kind of

38:39

matches that. Watch Eric Spolster on the sideline,

38:42

how is he coaching? How animated is he? Watch

38:44

Greg Popovich on the sideline? How animated

38:47

is he? Watch you know, Tyron Lew

38:49

on the sideline. Watch these guys on the sideline, and you'll

38:51

see the difference in just their overall level of engagement

38:54

with the team compared to compared

38:57

to what Darvin brings. Secondly, just

38:59

a a basketball ideology

39:01

that doesn't match your personnel. I'm

39:04

a big believer in like a coach has

39:06

to be very careful with his individual

39:08

ideologies inflicting them on

39:10

a roster if the roster's not capable of

39:12

it. So, for instance, Darvin's kind of obsession

39:15

with speed, quickness and skill at the

39:17

guard position and kind of leaning into that.

39:19

That's not the strength of this roster. They do

39:21

not have a guard corps that is particularly

39:23

fast, that is particularly good defensively,

39:26

and that is star caliber and offensive

39:28

creation. And so all you're really doing

39:30

is playing a bunch of small guys that can't defend and can't

39:32

score. And he had athletes on the

39:34

roster, he had options that he could go there.

39:38

One of the biggest.

39:39

Strengths of this like a roster, they got some big

39:41

athletes, ruy Lebron, Ad, Jackson, Hayes.

39:44

He could have leaned into those lineups as much as

39:46

possible, and I thought him kind of leaning

39:48

into Again, we always talk about adversity

39:50

brings out like the true nature of who

39:52

you are as a person, And like here we were Game

39:55

three, all the chips are down, and

39:57

he benched Jackson and he played a bunch of three guard lineups.

39:59

So that's a pretty strong indicative where he's at there. And

40:02

then lastly, like I

40:04

thought, I thought, and you know, you and I were talking

40:06

about this a little bit in the before we started

40:08

recording today, but like, yeah,

40:10

it was it was bullshit that when Ad

40:12

made a comment that was clearly in a moment

40:14

of frustration that was clearly

40:16

not aimed at anybody in particular.

40:19

I thought it was just like a I thought that

40:21

the comment about us not knowing what we're doing

40:23

on either end of the floor, I thought it was more directed

40:26

at like some of the role players

40:28

and like just them going off script

40:31

and not sticking to the game plan and

40:33

not doing their jobs. And yeah, I'm sure

40:35

there was some criticism Levy towards Darvin

40:37

there. I thought it was just kind of like a general

40:39

frustration with not being a serious basketball

40:42

team, because, like Lebron said after the game

40:44

last night, Lebron and Ad know

40:47

they've won together. They know what

40:49

it's like to be a serious

40:51

team and to make a deep

40:53

run, and so they are frustrated

40:56

because they know this team doesn't have it.

40:58

And then for Darvin to him out in the what was

41:01

it the shoot around yesterday and then to basically

41:03

be like, yeah, we're going to agree to disagree

41:05

on that, and we take great pride and like basically

41:08

cover his ass rather

41:10

than just simply saying like

41:12

like, yeah, eighti's pissed off. I'm pissed off too,

41:15

which would have been a perfectly normal response

41:17

there. And so I don't

41:20

blame Darvin for the Lakers losing

41:22

to the Nuggets. That said, I

41:24

don't think he's a championship level

41:27

coach, and so I do think the Lakers

41:29

are going to have to address that in this offseason. They're

41:31

going to have to make

41:34

a move in that specific area. Where

41:36

do you think the organization is right

41:39

now in terms of the coaching situation.

41:42

Is there some internal frustration?

41:45

Yeah, they are frustrated and

41:47

disappointed with how this

41:49

series has gone and with how

41:52

this season has gone. I think there

41:54

has been an acknowledgment that Denver

41:56

is just a better team and this is a

41:59

bad matchup for the Lakers. But

42:01

to your point that they shouldn't have even

42:03

been in this position in the first place,

42:06

and the fact that they finished as a

42:08

seventh seed and had to play

42:10

Denver in the first round was

42:12

a reflection of mistakes earlier

42:15

in the season. And I go back

42:17

to early January when the Lakers

42:20

lost four consecutive games and

42:22

I had the report with Shan Shrania

42:24

the athletic and I came on this show

42:26

and we talked about it of the

42:29

disconnect within the locker room between the players

42:31

and the coaching staff and the

42:33

frustration with lineups and rotations

42:36

and just the identity of the team

42:39

not necessarily aligning with the

42:41

player's strengths. And those are all

42:44

things you just hit on, and those are

42:46

all things that never went away, like

42:48

they got better for periods. I think

42:50

winning can paper over some

42:53

frustrations and some disagreements

42:55

internally, and that's why you'll

42:57

see like Kobe and shak can not get

42:59

along, but they are so talented

43:02

and Phil Jackson is such a great coach, and like they had

43:04

the right role players where you can still win

43:06

championships despite not being on the same

43:08

page and having internal discord.

43:11

But that only covers you

43:13

for so long when you run into

43:16

a team that is better than you and is

43:18

embarrassing you. And really, like the Lakers

43:20

have been embarrassed in this matchup

43:22

with Denver, I think, like it's not just losing

43:25

eleven straight games, but it's losing them

43:27

the manner in which they lose them. It's

43:29

completely falling apart in second halfs.

43:32

And I don't think that's on Darvin, and I

43:34

don't think people are putting that entirely on Darvin.

43:36

But I have heard conversations

43:39

with people once again referencing the three

43:41

guard lineups or Torrian prints at the four

43:43

and just them not lean like

43:45

there had been a shift in early February

43:48

where they went back there. You know, they

43:50

started Rui, they started leaning into

43:52

the bigger lineups because all year the lineup

43:54

data has said if you go big with

43:56

the front court, the Lakers win

43:58

those minutes go.

44:00

It was undeniable.

44:01

It's undeniable, like it's it's it's and

44:03

it's facts over feelings, right, Like that's that's been

44:05

the motto of the last couple of years. It's facts over feelings.

44:08

And the facts have been there, and the facts have been Lakers

44:10

play bigger, they are better. Lakers play

44:12

smaller, they are worse. Yet, as

44:14

you've said in big moments this season, even

44:16

going back to parts of the Pelicans

44:19

games in the regular season finale

44:21

and the playing matchup, they've gone small.

44:23

And it's just like there's there's clearly

44:26

been a lack of trust for for Jackson,

44:28

for I think for Ruy, Like I know Ruy

44:30

did not have a good game last night, but

44:33

Ruey should not have played twenty eight minutes. Like

44:35

there's no, in my opinion, credible argument

44:37

for playing Ruey twenty eight minutes in

44:40

an elimination game or essentially elimination

44:42

game when the two alternatives

44:44

are playing Jackson who's worse and they

44:46

just didn't even play him, or just

44:49

going super small with more Tornian and

44:51

more three guard lineups and like that, just

44:53

it doesn't work against the Denver Nuggets.

44:56

Like we all we already went through the head to head

44:58

matchups of how they are small and less

45:00

physical and less forceful at each position,

45:03

and then playing smaller leans

45:05

into that even more.

45:06

So.

45:07

I think, you know, I would not put this loss

45:09

on him per se, but I think

45:11

this loss has revealed some of

45:13

his stubbornness and some of his weaknesses

45:16

as a coach. And from my understanding,

45:18

whether it's if I think the series is likely

45:20

over in four or five games, and I would probably

45:23

lean toward four, Lakers are going to

45:25

have some reevaluating to do in the next

45:27

few days in terms of the direction

45:30

of the franchise. You know, can

45:32

Darvin lead them to the next level? And

45:34

because again, as I just said in the del

45:37

segment, like the Denver Nuggets aren't

45:39

going anywhere if the Lakers want to win a championship,

45:41

and who knows how much longer they have with Lebron.

45:43

Could be a year, could be two years, could be three years,

45:45

who knows, could be zero year.

45:47

He could leave the summer.

45:49

Like if they want to win a championship

45:51

and are serious about that with Lebron and Ad, I

45:54

think they have to look at the future of you

45:57

know, de Lo, Darvin and really

45:59

just some of the the peripheral pieces here.

46:01

So from my understanding,

46:03

they are going to be reevaluating things

46:06

in the next few days, looking at where this season

46:08

went wrong, where this series went wrong,

46:11

and then having to make potentially

46:13

some tough decisions.

46:15

Yeah, you know.

46:16

The Torrian Prince piece,

46:18

to me is the kind of like the Bell Weather

46:20

for where this

46:22

team could have gone. In terms of an identity, you

46:25

mentioned the size was the primary

46:28

source of success for this lineup all

46:30

year long, right, toryan

46:33

Prince at the four next to three

46:35

guards versus

46:38

Tory and Prince at the two, which

46:40

was always a look they could have gone to. Like

46:42

Dlo is not playing well, you

46:44

could literally go ad Lebron,

46:47

RUI who Ruey can play

46:49

in the five out Torrian Prince who Here's

46:52

the thing. I think Torrian Prince all season has been more like

46:54

the seventh or eighth best player on the team, but

46:56

within the context of this series, he

46:59

was the most confident and successful bench player.

47:01

So like, get seriously, you make a read.

47:03

You make a read within this context of these first

47:06

two games going into game three, and it's like, Okay,

47:08

Torrian's my one guy off the bench that's like

47:10

really playing confidently and well when

47:12

he comes into the game. So like, if dlo

47:14

is not playing well, like I would

47:17

have just slotted Torrian at the two. I would

47:19

have gone with Austin and Torrion with Ruiy Lebron

47:21

and ad. That lineup hasn't played a single minute

47:23

in this series. So like that

47:25

that that, by the way, has been your five best

47:28

players within this series. Like

47:30

Toryan's not one of your five best players, but within

47:32

this series, that's your five best players.

47:34

They never saw the floor. But it's because of a

47:36

basketball philosophy that Darvin was trying

47:38

to inflict on his roster rather

47:41

than trying to cater a basketball philosophy

47:43

to the strengths of his roster. And

47:45

again, like it's not it's

47:48

not about blaming him necessarily, It's more

47:50

just about acknowledging the reality that

47:52

like if you're going to continue

47:54

to try to win with the Lebron and AD build.

47:57

He's not up to the challenge and

47:59

they're to have to address that in this offseason.

48:02

So before we get into we're gonna

48:04

do a little brief chat about the off season. Then we're gonna

48:07

get out of here before we actually get into the offseason.

48:09

Though, what is your sense behind

48:11

the scenes as to where ownership

48:14

in the front office is with

48:17

the Lebron and AD core do

48:19

they view this year? Because like, here's the thing. I thought

48:21

last year, Lebron and AD got

48:23

soundly outplayed by Jokichen Murray

48:26

and that was the major difference.

48:28

Right, this year,

48:30

AD has gone toe to toe with Jokic

48:34

and Lebron, like I think, because

48:36

here Murray hasn't shot well and

48:39

Lebron has had some bad stretches too. I

48:41

think Lebron and Murray have been more or less the

48:43

same. You know, Murray obviously

48:45

hit the biggest shot of the series in Game two,

48:47

but Lebron was incredible down the

48:49

stretch of that game. So like, it

48:51

certainly wasn't Lebron's fault that they lost that

48:54

game, right, So, Like I viewed the Star matchup

48:56

as relatively even in this series so

48:59

far through three games, it's

49:01

been the role players that have gotten you know, demolished.

49:03

So where is the Laker front

49:06

office and ownership group in your opinion in

49:08

terms of their optimism around

49:10

giving another shot to the Lebron and ad

49:12

core.

49:14

From my understanding that is the plan. They

49:16

want to keep Lebron James and

49:19

sign him either resign you know, he is

49:21

the option to either opt out and resign

49:23

or he can extend. So that

49:26

is still their goal moving forward

49:28

in terms of having Lebron for at least

49:31

another two years, maybe three years,

49:34

and going forward with this Lebron

49:36

eighty corps. But from

49:38

my understanding that it's been similar to the approach

49:41

at the trade deadline in terms of you

49:43

have three paths, you can run

49:45

it back and keep largely the

49:47

same group together, which I think would

49:49

be a mistake based on how this series has

49:51

gone and really how the season has

49:54

gone overall. Two is

49:56

you can do a like small to medium upgrade

49:58

in terms of that's flippingd

50:01

Lo with a pick or two picks

50:03

for a first you know, a starting

50:06

uh you know, lineup upgrade

50:09

and maybe you bring in

50:10

a you know, Cruso

50:13

type not necessarily Cruso, but maybe

50:15

Cruso, but like you do more of like

50:17

a a marginal upgrade in terms of you

50:19

add a new starter and

50:22

maybe like a key bench guy and you

50:24

sort of run it back, but you are

50:26

making a couple of upgrades. And

50:29

then path number three is let's

50:31

go star hunting and let's go get

50:34

a Trey Young. Well,

50:36

let's see what happens with Donovan Mitchell and Cleveland. It looks

50:38

like they're gonna make at least the conference semifinals,

50:40

but there's been a lot of buzz about him

50:42

not staying in Cleveland. And then what happens

50:45

with Dallas and the Clippers, And does

50:47

Dallas lose in the first round? And

50:49

now you you know, we've talked about it

50:51

before, but like, do they go in a different direction and

50:54

pivot away from Kyrie and Luca

50:56

as a pairing, And then there will likely

50:58

be other stars that potentially

51:00

come available, like and

51:03

I think Michael Bridges is an interesting

51:05

name of what direction.

51:07

Is Brooklyn going in?

51:08

And he's kind of in between path

51:11

number two and path number three, But for

51:13

the most part, like those are the three directions

51:15

that from my understanding, the Lakers

51:17

are weighing. It sounded more

51:19

recently like they are in between path

51:22

number one and path number two, and we're

51:25

trying to lean away from the three star

51:27

build, although there's been a lot of

51:29

Trey Young buzz with them. But I

51:32

don't see how you can do path number one.

51:34

I don't see how you can run this back. If

51:36

you run this back, you are once again

51:39

a Denver matchup away from just losing

51:42

whenever you face them. Like this team

51:44

is that if Ruy,

51:46

Dilo Austin, they can all come back better. And

51:49

I still don't think they could beat Denver. And even

51:51

if you add like a better bench player, I

51:53

still don't think you can beat Denver.

51:54

So I think it's between path number two and

51:56

path number three.

51:57

If I had to pick one, I would probably lean more toward

52:00

the marginal upgrade, and that likely

52:02

being d Lo and Ruie potentially

52:05

moving. Those are the most movable contracts

52:07

that they have. I think they're gonna try and keep Austin,

52:10

but again it's they're

52:12

in a tough spot because on top like Delo's

52:14

got a player option, Cam Reddish,

52:17

Christian Wood and Jackson Hayes all have player options.

52:19

I think you can argue that they're still all

52:21

minimum players. Like maybe Jackson

52:24

has outplayed it to like a mini mid level,

52:26

you know, four to five million dollar player, but

52:29

I'm not even sold on that. He just was a

52:31

DMPCD in a playoff game.

52:33

Christian Wood and Cam Reddish I think are both

52:36

clearly minimum guys. So like, those guys

52:38

are probably opting in Max Christie's

52:40

restricted free agents.

52:41

So like the Lakers already have a.

52:42

Bunch of money committed to the

52:45

core of this group lebron Ady, Austin, Ruy,

52:48

Van doh Gabe Vincent. Then you

52:50

add in some of these guys that can opt

52:52

in, and like they're kind of limited in terms of what

52:54

they could do in free agency, and then when

52:56

it comes to trading, it's gonna have to bed

52:58

Lo, Rui, maybe Austin,

53:00

depending on you know, who's involved.

53:02

But they're kind of limited in terms of

53:05

like what they can actually do.

53:06

So while I think they'd love to do path number

53:08

two a path number three, it ultimately

53:11

might come down to like how the trade market plays out,

53:13

how free agency plays out, and some factors

53:15

that are ultimately out of their control.

53:17

Yeah, I think it comes down to it's got

53:20

to be a two way offensive player rather

53:22

than just an offensive player. So, like, I think

53:25

they definitely need a high level offensive player

53:27

because Lebron and Ady during the regular season

53:29

just don't have the

53:31

ability to put the foot down to the pedal and

53:34

impact the game athletically for eighty two

53:36

the way that they used to offensively.

53:40

I obviously am such a huge believer in those two in

53:42

the context of the playoffs, but you know,

53:44

within the regular season eighty two they

53:46

need to get a high level offensive player. But to

53:48

me, the perfect kind of like line

53:50

of delineation in terms of this archetype

53:52

is like the Trey Young versus Jontey Murray type of thing.

53:55

And I'm not saying that those two players are the only options,

53:57

as you just laid out so many good options, but like,

54:02

Trey Young is a player

54:04

that has a significantly higher offensive

54:06

ceiling than de Jontay Murray.

54:09

But de Jontay Murray, like no doubt, within

54:11

the context of a Lebron and ad pairing, is

54:13

going to be a more impactful playoff player

54:15

and a more useful playoff player with a higher

54:17

floor, right, And so that's kind of what I look

54:19

at, Like That's why I like the idea of a

54:22

McHale Bridges that isn't that is a

54:24

an athlete that can really impact

54:27

the game with a high floor, but

54:29

that also has the ability to run

54:31

action and be a useful a guy that could run

54:33

two man game with Lebron and you know that that sort

54:35

of thing. There's a lot of different upside

54:37

to that that type of pairing, right, So, like,

54:39

I think that's going to be the key for them is I

54:41

think they need to target

54:43

a legitimate

54:45

two way player to put in

54:47

that in that two or three spot,

54:49

which is something we've been talking about all day here

54:52

really, But like I'm a big

54:54

believer in Austin. I think a big part

54:56

of what led to Austin's poor offensive

54:59

series was the fact that last year

55:01

in the postseason, it was Dennis Schroeder that was taking

55:03

most of the high leverage defensive assignments, and Austin

55:05

was able to focus his energy and his best

55:08

skill, which is, you know, being

55:10

an offensive skill guard, right and this

55:13

year that's not the case. And to his

55:15

credit, I think he actually was a really useful

55:17

perimeter defender for the Lakers of the last couple of years,

55:19

and I think that will serve him well in

55:21

lower leverage assignments throughout

55:23

the rest of his career. But you got to

55:25

find a way to free him up to focus on the offensive

55:28

end. And the only way you're going to do that is if you bring

55:30

in a real high leverage athlete at

55:32

the two and the three. I like Ruiy

55:34

at the three in the sense that like it does

55:36

bring a big physical imposition to the game.

55:39

But there's something to be said about having two

55:41

forwards like Lebron and Rui that aren't necessarily

55:44

great screen navigators or that can move

55:46

their feet on the perimeter, and so that to

55:48

me is going to be like the area of opportunity,

55:51

essentially turning d Lo and Ruie into

55:53

more compatible players at that

55:55

position. Dejontey Murray is a player

55:57

that I'd really like for them to take another look at. I know

55:59

that the hot are going to be considering blowing up things

56:01

this summer. I just think he could be relatively

56:04

affordable compared to some of the other

56:06

options out there. Obviously, Donovan Mitchell

56:08

would be a home run. If you get Donovan Mitchell, you're

56:10

you're celebrating for for a

56:13

long time after that. But I just think that

56:15

there's gonna be a big market for him. Yeah,

56:17

and like the the idea of maybe

56:20

three first round picks and filler, I

56:22

don't think necessarily is gonna be able to compete with some

56:24

of the other offers that are out there, especially

56:27

especially when there's so many teams that feel like

56:29

they're close. Right, But we'll

56:31

see. Like you said, there's so many things that can happen

56:33

over the next month, Like the Suns could

56:35

have a catastrophe, the MAVs could have a catastrophe,

56:37

the Bucks could have a catastrophe. Like, there's so many

56:40

different negative things

56:42

that could happen over the next month, and that's gonna color

56:44

what ends up being the uh, what

56:47

ends up being the strategy. Our last note

56:49

before we get out of here. Do you think there's any any

56:52

chance that

56:54

that Lebron James looks another direction

56:56

this offseason?

56:58

There's a there's always a chance, so

57:01

I would say there's a small chance. But

57:04

everything I've heard has been that Lebron

57:06

wants to remain a Laker, and that the Lakers

57:09

want him to remain a Laker, and that's why they're willing

57:11

to pay and commit, you

57:13

know, two to three year deal or two to three

57:15

year extension for fifty

57:18

plus million dollars annually to

57:20

keep Lebron despite not knowing

57:23

this, Like we're in uncharted territory

57:25

with Lebron, right, Like it's gonna be year twenty two, year

57:27

twenty three, year twenty four, depending on how long

57:30

he resigns, and like we've seen

57:32

even Hall of Fame top

57:34

ten, top twenty level guys, at

57:37

some point later in your career, there's

57:39

the off season that you just fall off randomly,

57:42

and I think, based on Lebron's

57:44

track record, that's not going to happen, and

57:46

he's likely going to go out on

57:48

a high note, and whenever

57:51

he decides to retire, it'll just be he's

57:53

still a really good basketball player and maybe

57:55

not quite top five or top ten or

57:57

or whatever, but he'll still be a

57:59

high, high level, star level

58:02

basketball player. But within

58:04

that, like the Lakers are willing to commit

58:06

to that. So I think the thing with Lebron

58:09

is going to be and we've

58:11

touched on this before, but if

58:14

he's had his way, I think this team

58:16

would have a third star, whether

58:19

it was last season or this season. He was a

58:21

big proponent for Kyrie Irving.

58:24

I was told he was a proponent for

58:26

the Jontey Murray and Zach Lavine earlier

58:29

in the season. So he's clearly

58:32

on some level wanted a third

58:34

star and that third player who

58:36

could help alleviate some of the offensive

58:38

burden, you know, a player that similar

58:41

to what you were just talking about. So I

58:43

wonder, like now that he has

58:46

some of the power back in terms of he

58:49

has a say on his future and

58:51

the direction of the Lakers, Like,

58:53

how much does he yield that right? And if

58:56

we see the team make

58:59

a change at the coaching position

59:01

and then go get a third star, I

59:03

think it's kind of showing that, like

59:06

Lebron, like the power is

59:08

sort of back and he is

59:11

in influential force in terms of the direction

59:13

of the team, and it's sort of like what we've done

59:16

the last couple of years has not worked. And you

59:18

know, yes, we made the conference finals and

59:20

you know that was a nice run, and we had a nice

59:22

turnaround this year, but like we have not been

59:24

at a championship level. And with Lebron

59:27

historically, when he doesn't feel like his

59:29

team is at a championship level, he wants

59:31

wholesale changes, and more

59:33

often than not, it has worked. Right, He's won a

59:36

championship everywhere he's been, but

59:38

I think for the Lakers, it's again kind of

59:40

you know how. I'm just interested to see how much

59:42

they actually allow him

59:45

to yield that this offseason. If

59:47

it is a power struggle at all, maybe it won't be. Maybe

59:49

it's as simple as if you're willing to resign

59:52

or extend, we will.

59:54

Do X, y Z to keep you happy.

59:55

And we know the Lakers are a franchise that

59:58

prides itself on keeping their stars

1:00:00

happy and being partners with their stars.

1:00:02

But I don't think that has necessarily been the case in terms

1:00:05

of like personnel moves as

1:00:07

much the last couple of years. And I

1:00:09

think if you start to see the team go in

1:00:11

a different direction, maybe a more drastic

1:00:13

direction, that to me is a sign that

1:00:16

he is more so getting what he's

1:00:19

wanted compared to the last couple of years.

1:00:21

So I think he now has some leverage over

1:00:23

the Lakers that he did not have at the

1:00:25

trade deadline, he did not have last year,

1:00:27

and I'm interested to see just

1:00:30

how all that shakes out, because it's, you

1:00:33

know, it has been too like I don't

1:00:35

think they've always seen eyed eye. I'll just say

1:00:37

over the last couple of years, and now

1:00:39

that he has some of the power back, I

1:00:41

want to see how that all plays out.

1:00:45

Yees selfishly, as a Lebron

1:00:47

fan, I want him to leave, mainly

1:00:49

just because I feel like the Lakers have let him down

1:00:51

in a big way. I understand

1:00:53

that he pushed for the Russell Westbrook trade, but it didn't

1:00:56

take a basketball savant to realize that was a bad

1:00:58

idea in the moment, you know, like I

1:01:00

I can't think of a trade that was more

1:01:03

universally panned at the moment

1:01:05

and then immediately ended up being a

1:01:08

disaster, Like like from

1:01:10

Game one of that season.

1:01:11

You're like, oh no, You're like, I

1:01:14

think there's still I think they're still paying for it right

1:01:16

now, Like I think this all of

1:01:18

this has been compounding mistakes since the Russell

1:01:20

Westbrook trade.

1:01:21

We talked about a small mistake that could

1:01:23

have been undone that could have saved

1:01:26

some of this heartache in the in the Alex Crusoe

1:01:29

situation. But there's no doubt if you're pointing

1:01:31

to one singular incident that was the downfall

1:01:34

of the Los Angeles Lakers, it was the Russell Westbrook

1:01:36

trade. Now Russell Westbrook I mean,

1:01:38

Russell Westbrook was always Russell Westbrook

1:01:40

and that evidence was there, and so I don't necessarily

1:01:43

blame him for coming into the Lakers

1:01:45

and being Russell Westbrook and it being a bad idea,

1:01:47

right, Like that was on the like

1:01:50

there's just no universe where

1:01:52

any serious front office would

1:01:55

have watched film of Russell Westbrook

1:01:57

and been like, this is a good idea, let's

1:01:59

do this, like they're just there's just no universe

1:02:01

where that would have that would have been the case. So like when

1:02:04

you get when you're giving up a draft asset, you're

1:02:06

like, if I remember correctly, the Buddy Healed

1:02:08

trade was I want to say, Kuzma

1:02:10

Haral and a pick.

1:02:12

So they would have kept case.

1:02:15

Yeah, they would have kept KCP, like it

1:02:18

would have been a significant a substantially

1:02:20

better and Kuzma, by the way, kind of

1:02:22

like RUI was a redundancy with Lebron

1:02:24

and so there was some concern as

1:02:27

to whether or not that was really a good fit

1:02:29

to begin with. But like pivoting to Russ

1:02:31

which forced them to include KCP, that

1:02:34

was really the downfall of everything.

1:02:36

And you know, between

1:02:38

that between letting Crusoe go,

1:02:41

between signing Taylor Orton Tucker, which,

1:02:43

by the way, I had no real problem with signing Taylor Horton

1:02:45

Tucker. It was signing Taylor Horton Tucker without retaining

1:02:48

Alex Cruso that I thought was a disaster. Between

1:02:51

all the mistakes that Magic Johnson made in

1:02:53

the early phase of his UH President

1:02:55

of Basketball Operations kind of stint there,

1:02:58

like the this was a team that

1:03:00

should have been a conference

1:03:03

finalist year and year out for a

1:03:06

four year period, and instead they

1:03:08

got one additional conference finals trip

1:03:10

off the tale of an incredible defensive

1:03:12

run from Anthony Davis, right, and so it just kind of

1:03:15

felt like a waste. So part of me wishes

1:03:17

Lebron would leave, just because I want to see him

1:03:19

play in a competent environment

1:03:22

and give it a real shot. But I agree with you in the sense that,

1:03:24

like, I just have a hard time believing you will as

1:03:26

far as the building thing goes. It's so funny because

1:03:28

over the last couple of years, like in the twenty twenty

1:03:30

one, twenty twenty two, twenty twenty three off seasons,

1:03:33

it was like, don't go star hunting,

1:03:36

just get a quality role player. Just go get some

1:03:38

athletes that can help Lebron in ab But

1:03:40

like, now that we're tilting into the later

1:03:42

portion of Lebron's career. Now we've

1:03:45

been in a later portion, but now that we're into

1:03:47

the preposterously late portion of Lebron's

1:03:49

career year twenty two, like you almost

1:03:51

have to go star hunting because, like simply

1:03:54

put, like part of the issue is, I

1:03:56

think Lebron could have a really

1:03:59

useful year twenty two, year

1:04:01

twenty three if he can pick

1:04:03

his spots. But he could

1:04:06

not pick his spots on this team. They

1:04:08

desperately needed him to be great, and

1:04:10

to his credit, he was host

1:04:12

deadline.

1:04:13

He was the only.

1:04:14

Player in the NBA to average at

1:04:16

least twenty seven on fifty percent from the field

1:04:18

in forty percent from three. He was one of only

1:04:20

three players in the league this year to average at least

1:04:23

twenty five to seven and seven. I legitimately

1:04:25

think like he was bad in Game three.

1:04:28

He was bad in Game three, There's no way around it. He

1:04:30

dropped the ball on the defensive and he let his team down.

1:04:32

But outside of that game, pretty much

1:04:34

for the last two or three months, he's been playing at a top

1:04:36

five level. Like

1:04:39

and like legitimately it's ridiculous

1:04:41

that they needed him to be that. If

1:04:44

they could have managed this in a way that lessened

1:04:46

his workload and kept him in a position where he could

1:04:48

pick his spots. There's a version

1:04:50

of this where you where this could be sustained

1:04:53

success. And so obviously there's always

1:04:55

going to be a part of me that that

1:04:57

kind of like wonders what would have happened

1:04:59

if he, if you was in a more competent situation. But

1:05:01

if he stays, I think at this point you have

1:05:04

to start looking for higher firepower

1:05:06

guys that can lessen his workload. All

1:05:08

right, we've gone for like an hour already,

1:05:10

so we're gonna get out of here, Yova, why don't you tell us what you guys

1:05:12

are working on over at the Athletic right now?

1:05:15

Yeah.

1:05:15

So I will be monitoring

1:05:18

this whole situation in terms of the sweep

1:05:20

and the fallout or the potential sweep

1:05:23

Freudian slip there, the potential

1:05:26

sleep, the potential sweep, and

1:05:28

all the fallout from it, all the off

1:05:30

season stuff. We'll have a big piece

1:05:32

at the Athletic coming out whenever the season

1:05:35

ends, so be on the lookout for that and

1:05:37

also be sure to check out my YouTube channel.

1:05:39

I just search yo Van Buha j Ova

1:05:42

n b u Ha. I have my

1:05:44

podcast there, Bouja's Block. I'm doing

1:05:46

postgame reactions after every

1:05:49

game, and then I will also be reacting

1:05:51

to whatever happens with this offseason,

1:05:54

going directly to YouTube

1:05:56

and doing reaction videos there. So be

1:05:58

sure to check that out and subscribe

1:06:00

if you have not done so yet.

1:06:03

All right, guys, that is all we have for today.

1:06:05

As always, be sincerely appreciate you guys for

1:06:07

supporting the show. We're gonna have Yovan on a bunch of

1:06:09

times over the course of the stretch,

1:06:12

right after the postseason, when we get into the

1:06:16

draft and free agency and everything like that.

1:06:19

We are taking tonight off. I'm dealing with a

1:06:21

personal family matter. Tomorrow morning

1:06:23

we'll have a breakdown of tonight's

1:06:26

games, and then Saturday night

1:06:28

we'll be going live after the final buzzer of Lakers Nuggets.

1:06:30

I'll see you guys. Then the

1:06:55

volume