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0:50

Welcome back to. Game of Thrones

0:52

to you electorate. Hulu

0:55

Anthony. This week we

0:57

return north of the

0:59

Wall, revisit Jon Snow

1:01

and is burgeoning love

1:03

affair with free folk

1:05

culture. Because. I'm a

1:07

glutton for punishment. I decided I

1:09

would try another fan Roundtable this

1:11

time with folks across the pond.

1:14

My. Guess or Mathematician, Patrick Mccarren and

1:16

film maker Hazel. Green. Hazel is

1:18

a new guest a color, Filmmakers

1:20

works, and all kinds of media.

1:22

She's worked in animation and video

1:25

game creation and documentary and theater.

1:27

Of course you can check all

1:29

that out on her. I am

1:31

Db Page Podgorica Course is no

1:33

stranger to Electric Boogaloo. You know

1:35

that he teaches at the University

1:37

of Limerick. Just a quick announcement

1:39

after this chapter. I'll be taking

1:41

a break from a Clash of

1:43

Kings. And I Will be Republic Jean

1:46

The podcast Steve Osborne and I did

1:48

on season one of House to the

1:50

Dragon. So. We publishers originally over

1:52

on the Double Dragon feed. So

1:54

many people who listen to this

1:56

book centric program have not heard

1:58

though so few. As long as you

2:00

rewatch Season 1 of House of the

2:02

Dragon, this could serve as your companion

2:04

podcast. So episode 1 of

2:07

Season 1 of House of the Dragon coverage begins

2:09

next week. Without further ado,

2:12

here is Hazel and Podrick.

2:16

I felt that, well, I don't spend

2:18

any time on Reddit. I'm not trying

2:20

to, you know, deep, deep,

2:23

deep, deep in the lore

2:25

and mythology and that's not

2:28

so denigrated. I just felt

2:30

that I was someone

2:32

who's just sort of failed to

2:35

get it or something. I don't know. It's hard

2:37

to imagine now. But then

2:39

about two years ago, I just started

2:42

reading and couldn't stop, you

2:44

know, and I read all the series

2:46

so far and

2:49

then last year I read

2:51

them all again. So that's where I'm at.

2:53

Yeah, it's interesting. I feel like you

2:56

can get the impression from Reddit

2:58

that this thing is just, this

3:00

story is just so dense that

3:02

unless you devote your life to

3:04

it, you're not going to actually

3:06

understand. But I find the

3:08

books, at least the

3:10

first few books in the series, quite accessible.

3:13

I don't know how you found them. Yeah, yeah,

3:16

absolutely. Yeah, I was straight

3:18

in there, really. I think

3:20

it helped me a lot, I

3:23

think, listening to the podcast. But

3:27

it's hard to know because I didn't approach them

3:29

without that. But

3:31

certainly the writing and the

3:33

reading of it is a

3:36

delight, you know, it's not tricky

3:38

at all. Yeah, so if you're one of

3:40

those very strange listeners to

3:43

this podcast who do not actually

3:45

read the chapters, let

3:47

this be a little endorsement. You

3:50

might enjoy it if you pick up the book,

3:52

you might actually enjoy reading it. Okay,

3:56

you know, last time I did a fan roundtable,

3:58

it kind of turned into a mutant. me and

4:03

I'm hoping it doesn't

4:05

come to that. Just go around. My

4:07

hope is that by inviting

4:10

you fine folk, we'll have

4:12

a more civilized conversation than

4:14

my last fan. All

4:20

right. So, um, why don't

4:22

I go ahead and read my synopsis

4:25

and then we can jump into the

4:27

chat. Corinne's

4:32

band of scouts do their best

4:35

to remain undetected as they

4:37

draw nearer to the wildling

4:39

encampment. As John

4:41

dreams, he sees through ghosts eyes

4:43

and feels the absence of his

4:46

pack. Still dreaming,

4:48

he finds a thin weirwood tree and

4:51

has a conversation with a voice. Somehow

4:54

he recognizes his confresant as

4:56

his brother. Through the

4:58

tree, his brother touches him

5:01

and shows him a gathering of thousands

5:03

of free folk, all settled

5:05

near a frozen river. Ghosts

5:08

is attacked by an eagle. Once

5:11

awake, John describes the dream to

5:13

Corinne and Eben calls John a

5:15

skin changer. The next

5:17

day, they find ghosts with a wound

5:19

where the eagle attacked. Seeing

5:22

an eagle spying on them, Corinne decides

5:24

that they ought to flee. Dalbridge,

5:27

however, will stay behind to give

5:29

them cover. But as they

5:31

try to escape, they hear a wildling

5:33

horn behind them. Hazel,

5:37

let's start with you. What did

5:39

you want to talk about related to this chapter? Um,

5:42

well, first of all, I want

5:45

to just from

5:47

what I was just saying earlier about rereading

5:50

properly, um,

5:52

this particular chapter and

5:55

Martin's description of the

5:57

landscape. richly

6:00

able to paint that picture

6:03

when really it's

6:05

just it's a lot of rock

6:07

you know a rock and snow

6:09

for sure yeah it's not even

6:11

the snow is where they are particularly

6:14

though you know but there's nothing

6:16

growing there it's just different kinds of

6:19

shapes of rock and

6:21

but of course he talks about the

6:24

shadows and the

6:26

shapes and the narrowness of

6:28

it and the emotion and

6:31

the journey on with

6:33

the upwards and I just wanted

6:35

to say how much I

6:38

appreciated that and realized you

6:41

know our brilliant ears

6:43

at describing landscapes well

6:48

you asked us for

6:51

something that we may have

6:53

noticed about this chapter what

6:55

stood out yeah I realized

6:57

that I haven't noticed before

7:00

and I wonder what you

7:02

think about this but when

7:04

John is speaking

7:06

with Corin he

7:09

is compared to man's

7:11

radar yeah and

7:13

that has not really occurred to me before

7:16

that this kind of parallel between

7:18

John and man's yeah

7:21

they're both bad at obeying

7:23

in John's

7:26

mind John yeah John sort of volunteers

7:28

that himself doesn't he and then and

7:30

then that leads Corin to say and

7:34

you let her go you let

7:36

egret go but they they

7:38

seem to be you know

7:40

more in parallel there that

7:42

they were kind of orphaned

7:46

you know how much of

7:48

his blood is wildling blood

7:50

and did man's want

7:52

to become a king Kind

7:54

of a leader was he and this

7:56

seems to be leading us towards thoughts

7:58

and questions and all. The train and

8:00

of john survey what kind of leader

8:03

is he gonna be easy and became

8:05

an ioc feckless over the a lot

8:07

of. The. Discussion about that, but

8:09

that's incident occurred to me and I'm

8:11

proud of myself to see him something.

8:14

Sf. You know, I'm glad

8:17

I haven't really made the

8:19

connection between. Mance.

8:21

Is kind of trajectory

8:23

toward coronation and John's

8:26

but. Very

8:28

the question in the previous chapter

8:30

about whether John might have you

8:33

know the wild lean or free

8:35

folk blood in him in a

8:37

been done in this little story

8:39

about bail the barred. From

8:43

which he kind of

8:45

refuses button. The. Second

8:47

parallel of courses that. You.

8:50

Know did in John's mine he thought

8:52

he had been commanded to kill yeager

8:54

it and he decided not to do

8:56

that and he i think he's found

8:58

guilty about that. and so he kind

9:00

of views himself as something of it

9:02

of a disobedience. Ranger.

9:05

And. Of course having. Korean.

9:08

Disabuses him of that notion. But did

9:10

you? did you pick up on this

9:12

said all Patrick and I wonder if

9:14

you ever any thoughts on this. Here

9:17

I think I fucked up more source

9:19

for the last chapter with a growth

9:21

story am I kind of said that

9:23

was for assert because of a den

9:26

and often later on this and months

9:28

when winter sale and cause of able

9:30

as an anagram a failed about so

9:32

then wear a dress is tell it

9:34

said adding i am story bell about

9:37

yes other guests. In

9:40

the Air. As in a book? When

9:42

am I think, say just the next

9:44

book when John As Hawking demands. Mast

9:47

Cells and he's seen him twice at once on

9:49

his a boy. And. Once

9:51

more recently when the king with it when

9:53

Robert went to winter so he wanted to

9:55

see Robert in the flesh. and you want

9:57

to see bench and start who is cause.

10:00

The the Milan agrees and there he

10:02

when he then goes back to winter

10:04

Sale in a dance of Dragons and

10:06

he called himself able A B E

10:08

Out and under God and the marriage

10:11

guidance and but I'm pretty sure he

10:13

points out or. I think I

10:15

thought that I've never forgotten. or maybe I

10:17

just thought that it was clear by thought

10:20

he actually pointed out that of an anagram

10:22

of Bilderberg are not Libyans anagram but like

10:24

the homes of able Because okay, I. Am.

10:28

The so then when in the previous chapter

10:30

i know that and dance with dragons so

10:32

then when or the previous chapters of this

10:35

when the greatest on the story as a

10:37

build a bird over say that sinister seem

10:39

parallels a bit more between John and months

10:41

before this particular chapter but also as very

10:44

surprised the John. Is. Thinking

10:46

he doesn't obey a know he. He.

10:49

Is fairly obedient. He certainly a speaks

10:51

his mind, but he generally I would

10:53

have thought he use relish be obedient

10:55

compared to the letter of people the

10:57

night's watch. Yeah, I mean I think

10:59

John has kind of a scolding voice

11:01

at times in his head and I

11:03

do think that he's trying to. I

11:05

mean this is is is kind of

11:07

key to. What? He's

11:09

going to become. In short order.

11:12

He's kind of feels a conflicts

11:14

between. You know, maybe

11:17

what is? rights? In

11:19

terms of following orders vs. rights, you

11:21

know what he feels in his heart

11:23

is morally right here he says I

11:26

looked in her eyes like my father

11:28

taught me before I was gonna take

11:30

her head. And when

11:32

I looked in her eyes I saw no evil there.

11:37

And I mean I thought that that

11:39

was kind of an inch or steam.

11:42

Conflicts between and a know head

11:44

and heart? I don't know. I

11:46

may be ethically speaking. Know why?

11:48

Why would I kill someone who's

11:50

not evil? I? I I don't

11:52

see the value here and. Of

11:56

course it could just be very simple. Could

11:58

be like. It's. And. Active

12:00

young lady. I'm not going to killer in.

12:02

Okay, maybe it's as simple as a teenage

12:04

boy brain logic first day long as he

12:07

said. Well, That

12:10

you phrase it as far as a. Stopped.

12:19

Moving. I'm just trying

12:21

to get comfortable. Stop

12:24

it. still

12:30

moving of i. Hadn't

12:33

noticed that some. For

12:36

foreign foreign policy up with

12:38

but. She

12:40

was just the same as

12:42

the other two which he

12:44

murdered by tweeted Yeah, there's

12:47

a lot of discussion of.

12:49

Isn't your morals? And

12:52

ethics. In this

12:54

little conversation that I have to

12:56

you know current of that interesting

12:59

current much point to see anaheim.

13:01

I mean of the of not none of

13:03

us can imagine ourselves not. Pulling the so

13:06

to ones find a lot for any grits.

13:08

Head off quick, you know we. Can't

13:11

imagine. Mention that but that

13:13

that is warfare as was a key

13:15

difference here is that John isn't very

13:17

season so like Quran and all the

13:20

older Night's watch at their only enemies

13:22

always been the wildly I thought that

13:24

always been discouraged them whereas John's first

13:27

encounter enemy at the wall with the

13:29

whites are so he knows what's truly

13:31

out there and then he is He's

13:34

know he's never thought the wireless before

13:36

his first kill or was in the

13:38

previous chapter. When he jumped

13:41

down as to kill her doral as we

13:43

find out years later so added to him

13:45

the wild things aren't really the enemy and

13:47

thus party part of the difference between what

13:49

he's fighting or on his life or death

13:51

for says when he has to actually murder

13:54

someone effectively a lessons on a thing was

13:56

a hint of there's an older night's watch

13:58

person that would never questioned killer. That way

14:00

because there's you for dealing with

14:02

and this apart a very important

14:05

for John's Astoria because he's so

14:07

synthetics dwellings compared to all the

14:09

older generation. Okay, I like this

14:11

conversation and I actually want to

14:14

move to a discussion on the

14:16

phone, but before we do, I

14:18

thought it was interesting to say

14:20

to note that Mance. Okay,

14:23

So this is something that I

14:25

may be I fixated on. but

14:27

Coroner's talking about mans. And

14:30

he has affection form.

14:33

Yeah. And. He says,

14:35

you know he, he was the

14:37

best of us And he he,

14:39

ah he actually has a fair

14:42

amount of affection for. The.

14:44

Wild things in general, but

14:46

manson particular he seems to

14:48

have a high he holds

14:50

in high regard, and John

14:52

notes, oh, they weren't just

14:54

colleagues, they were brothers. Or

14:58

not, they weren't his brothers, they

15:00

were friends. That's Woodlands The yeah

15:03

and he notes that and of

15:05

course visit. This serves a little

15:07

bit more to blur the line

15:09

between send an enemy for John.

15:11

I think yeah, I mean Coin

15:13

is East training. John is in

15:16

the he's not just as a

15:18

great role model he is. actually.

15:20

I think. Training him while

15:22

he knows he can. Be.

15:24

That does make me think. I

15:27

wonder why pouring asked for

15:30

Jones come within on this?

15:33

It's a good question that

15:35

this this can't in trip

15:37

ah in the show John

15:39

volunteers and sell and moment

15:41

allows him to go but

15:43

in. Book. Here we

15:46

see that Horyn. Specifically.

15:49

Kind of ask same yeah

15:51

and. I wonder how much

15:53

about. while they of

15:55

skyn changing a think a

15:57

knob in and fans the

15:59

He's a made eagle. Yeah.

16:03

I, I asked that question

16:05

too. Like, uh, does, does

16:08

Corin who sort

16:10

of become an expert on Northern

16:12

culture, does Corin make John

16:15

for a warg immediately? Does he

16:17

think, Oh, that I'm

16:19

going to need that guy because

16:21

that guy has these set of

16:23

skills that will be useful.

16:25

He might be young, but he's the

16:28

dude's magic. We're going to break the magic

16:30

guy with us if we can. Yeah.

16:33

I did make you wonder, you know, otherwise

16:36

he seems like a tiny practical guy. Um,

16:39

you know, who's spending

16:41

his life, um, you

16:43

know, eating roots and killing, you

16:46

know, what do you think, what

16:48

do you think, Padraig, uh, do

16:50

you think, do you think that

16:52

Corin knows or at least suspects

16:54

that John is a skin changer?

16:57

Yeah. Well, he definitely suspects. Actually you asked us

17:00

to bring an observation to question. And my question

17:02

was, did Corin pick John because he knew he

17:04

was a warg instantly. Um,

17:06

so yeah, I, and I think the

17:08

answer is he does. So he

17:11

says at the time, something about the wolf will

17:13

come in handy. Um, but

17:15

I'm pretty sure as, as this conversation

17:17

in this chapter in particular goes on,

17:19

it's clear this, um, Corin has already

17:22

discussed with George Mormons

17:24

about, um, the trees having,

17:27

I think that he says to have the quote

17:29

here, I had it highlighted. Um,

17:33

but I can't say, okay. So yeah, the

17:35

moment the cold winds are rising. Mormon feared

17:37

as much. Benjans Stark felt it as well.

17:39

Dead men walk and the trees have eyes

17:41

again. Why should we balk at war rugs

17:43

and giants? So it's clear that, uh, him

17:45

and Mormon have discussed this and it's even

17:47

possible that Mormon is aware of John's

17:50

connection to ghosts and had

17:52

said this Corin, but I

17:54

think it's like, if you

17:56

look at the party Corin Brings,

17:59

he brings. what about archers? The night's

18:01

watch. He brings the best climbers in

18:03

the night's watch. he briefly what to

18:06

say can capture someone can make anyone

18:08

honk a he's probably one more season

18:10

rangers and then he brings like a

18:12

very fresh faced young as. He.

18:15

Was jones role as Mormons not

18:17

squire? Bust them. You know that

18:20

he's not even arranger, so it's

18:22

an unusual choice and without relying

18:24

and some skills are presumably. The

18:27

I work is only reason I could see him

18:29

bringing John. I don't think it's like he's giving

18:31

clearly humorless lol lessons you doing to lessons on

18:34

the chapter or on how to be good leader.

18:36

He. Says something like am to lead man

18:38

you must know them John So and

18:40

then as he also give him a

18:42

lesson and basically how to become a

18:44

spy because he's clearly knows already the

18:46

Sir Jonathon has to join the while

18:49

length and that said regret was actually

18:51

a good decision. He yeah there's something

18:53

about Korean that feels like I'm once

18:55

I know something about you all know

18:57

how to use you. So

18:59

what is he explicitly salvia? What is

19:01

what does he know about John? He

19:03

knows. That john has

19:06

a bit of affection for eager

19:08

it in and he has got

19:10

compassion any I think he recognizes

19:12

at a similarity with mans like.

19:15

I'm. I'm you the use John.

19:18

To. Ingratiate himself into the

19:20

wildly culture that might

19:22

be his special skill

19:25

to actually defect. An.

19:27

Annoying enough I can get him because

19:29

he because he does remind me of

19:31

mans. Maybe he can get close enough

19:33

with mans to kill. I don't think

19:35

he would have sent months on our

19:37

sense of and an assassination mission. Know

19:39

it's interesting because even though quran says

19:42

a lot about the dead men walk

19:44

and freeze of eyes again still his

19:46

fears that while and will get some

19:48

the wall. And. That's what they're trying

19:50

to protect, which is sort of conflicting. Why.

19:53

When. He explicitly says it's deadman walk rake of

19:55

till he knows the dead should be the.

19:58

The. enemy more so than the wavelength. and

20:00

he does have affection or understanding for it. I

20:02

was going to ask this question about corn. I

20:05

was struggling with his motivations. I want to ask

20:07

you both this question. What

20:09

is it that motivates corn? Because

20:11

he clearly, I mean, he

20:13

says, look, they're as brave, the wild beans are

20:16

as brave as us. They're as smart as us.

20:21

Let me try that phrase again. They're

20:24

as smart as us. And he

20:27

understands that they have a whole culture. He's

20:30

tapped into songs

20:33

and they have this weird idea

20:38

that they're all as autonomous as a

20:40

king and all as wise as a

20:42

maester. And he doesn't

20:44

view them as evil. And

20:49

one of his best friends is king

20:51

of the wildlings now. So I'm wondering

20:54

what it is about corn half hand

20:56

that keeps him going. Why

21:00

he's equally appreciative

21:02

of wildling culture and

21:05

also determined

21:08

to defeat them. So what

21:11

motivates this guy? He's

21:13

pretty explicit about this when he's talking to John

21:17

Marmont before the leave. He

21:19

said, their lives are to be spent

21:21

in service of the realm. And if

21:23

they can buy extra time for the

21:25

realm to get more men north to

21:27

protect. So he's very much

21:30

about keeping, I guess, Westeros as

21:32

it is. So I think he does respect and appreciate the

21:34

wildling culture. But I guess he worries if 100,000 of them

21:37

go south of the wall that they

21:39

won't go peacefully and that will cause

21:41

anarchy. But surely he must,

21:44

it must be more than this. And he's just

21:47

not vocalizing it, right? Because the fact that him

21:49

and Marmont have discussed about white

21:51

and explicitly the trees having eyes again,

21:53

like how did I know that? And

21:56

what do you think that means? They must be worried about

21:58

this. say

22:00

his motivation is also fear that

22:02

the dead will come

22:05

south or come down. But it seems to be

22:07

very much like one of the few kind of

22:09

Night's Watch people we meet who very, very sternly

22:14

upholds his vows and believes them. If

22:17

we go along with this idea that he is thinking

22:20

way ahead, several steps

22:22

ahead, that he is

22:26

thinking maybe Jon will need to

22:28

get the wildlings on

22:31

side, you know, what Jon ends up

22:33

doing, which is bringing

22:35

them into Castle Black in

22:38

order to defeat the real

22:40

enemy. I don't

22:42

know if that... Or even stuff, the real enemy's number

22:44

is growing, right, which is what Jon's fear is. You

22:48

know, if the wildlings are killed and they come back as

22:50

a dead, that's much more of a threat. Yeah,

22:52

that's interesting. That is

22:54

possibly his motivation because he does say

22:57

that only fools like the Thorin

23:00

Smallwood despise the wildlings.

23:02

So he's not very clear.

23:04

He's quite

23:07

an enigma, Corin, really, because up

23:09

to now all the Night's Watch we've met really

23:11

are quite cynical, with exception

23:14

of maybe Benjen Sarek, who's like

23:16

the first ranger. And then with me

23:18

Corin, you're like, well, why is he not

23:20

replacing for Benjen? He seems perfect in every

23:22

way. Here

24:01

are the highlights coming up this week on Bald Move.

24:04

We've got all our regular weekly

24:06

features this week with Shogun, Wise

24:08

Mr. Fenia Carr, Anthony's Maester Class,

24:10

and Electric Bukaloo. But

24:12

the featured highlight this week is our 20th

24:14

anniversary coverage of Kill Bill Volume In

24:17

case you missed it, you can find our coverage of Volume

24:19

1 in your Bald Move Pulp feed. Then

24:22

join us for the conclusion of the Bride's

24:24

Quest for Revenge this Friday. You

24:26

can find these and many other great podcasts by searching

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24:30

your favorite podcast app. FX

24:44

is adapting James Clavell's best-selling novel

24:47

Shogun into a 10-part miniseries this

24:49

spring. Set in the Shogunate

24:51

period of Japan at the turn of the

24:53

15th century, Shogun depicts the rise of a

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24:57

eyes of ship-corrected English sailors. It's

25:00

loosely based on the real-life exploits of

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William Adams and Tokugawa Aya-su. Shogun

25:05

has already been successfully adapted back in 1980 with

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a widely acclaimed miniseries starring Richard Chamberlain.

25:12

Featuring intricate plots, political scheming, complex

25:14

characters, and thrilling action. This

25:16

time, husband and wife team Justin Marks and

25:18

Rachel Kondo try to recapture the successes of

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the novel and early adaptations. While increasing the

25:23

levels of historical and cultural accuracy that are

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often perceived as flaws of this and similar

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works. Starring

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Hiroyuki Sonata from The Last Samurai, Mortal

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wolves, etc., joining the truly massive cast,

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25:50

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your favorite podcast app. And

26:08

I'm makes me wonder: does

26:10

corn have the idea of

26:13

John's ultimate defection in mind

26:15

from the start? Ah,

26:18

Maybe. Maybe. If you cut

26:20

off the head and kill one man, you have

26:22

our our war. A War. Would.

26:25

Kill thousands, And

26:27

so maybe it's like I. It's

26:29

because of my affection for humanity

26:31

that I want to avert this war.

26:34

And. You know, maybe maybe

26:36

it'll take this kid get in close

26:38

enough to kill the case. he does

26:40

seem very interested in like training. John

26:42

doesn't the So like and not just

26:44

have become a leader, but I wonder

26:46

does he suspect because John as a

26:48

war of that the Night's Watch can't

26:51

really do much for him and that

26:53

training. So fucking join the Y Links

26:55

for awhile and learn how to control

26:57

that and home that maybe I will

26:59

be more useful to the wash and

27:01

more useful sit around. Especially now this

27:03

am. You. Know the debtor

27:06

or were up against that. That

27:08

this is there Any evidence that

27:10

he. Can

27:13

run deliberately. Com by

27:16

the wild things which leads to be

27:18

don't actually have a definite done deliberately

27:20

bus at him and he suspects it

27:22

will happen and I do think he

27:25

is trying to get John to preset

27:27

dwelling so even if he like it

27:29

does seem like the last resort getting

27:32

John. To. Go to while lings but

27:34

em in this particular case but you don't

27:36

know or it's not clear if the he

27:38

always has this in mind for John. you

27:40

know to become some kind of my and

27:42

this is his first at it and I

27:44

can eat every. didn't intend for the north

27:46

die in this exhibition that's for sure. Okay,

27:49

so oh, he got your

27:52

question particular about your observation.

27:55

Yeah, my observation. This is something I

27:57

never noticed before. And was

28:00

when John as world in to ghost

28:02

and he seized were was and he

28:04

says is no more than a sapling.

28:06

Yet it was growing as he watched.

28:08

so I always had in my head

28:10

that were woods for. Instance.

28:12

In there since the time the old gods, but

28:15

this is clearly a new one. And

28:17

it was just growing out of like this

28:19

little crack in the rocket. Next you m

28:21

highlights are parts so or it seems like

28:23

new we're woods are growing. And

28:26

being added to. This network

28:28

of We're Woods does a future

28:30

brand can see through and so

28:32

that observation that were was are

28:34

actually growing again was slow when

28:36

I brought someone says that are

28:38

a i have questions to because

28:40

it has a face on it

28:43

rain. So

28:45

because it has a face and

28:47

it's is a initially it's just

28:50

like a carved face. A eventually

28:52

kind of I mean I'm imagining

28:54

kind of morphs into. A.

28:56

More human face. But I'm wondering because

28:59

of all of that and because of

29:01

the what you just. Sad.

29:04

How much Of this

29:07

dream? Is.

29:10

Visionary. and how much of this is

29:12

really happening? Now has

29:14

with you go first or assess

29:16

assess as. Well on

29:18

it's that Saddam. since.

29:21

Isn't as a little no

29:23

spaces between? The

29:25

third part yeah brown

29:27

as the three eyed.

29:30

The to the top spite have been the. Opening

29:33

your third eye to the

29:35

an easy since trapped in

29:37

John they needed now a

29:40

champion for his san abilities

29:42

that Brian. Leetch. Is

29:44

add touches. On.

29:48

Those This is what I was wondering

29:50

about. Yeah, He likes his

29:53

cause I find a sudden has

29:55

his own you know like his

29:57

passing on the kind of power.

30:00

The same. you must. Use

30:02

your power now. The tree touches

30:04

the wolf like if if we

30:06

are man I mean that this

30:09

is what actually happened like vet.

30:11

Yeah he's John is asleep and

30:13

his consciousness as seen through goes

30:16

eyes. What? Is actually occurring

30:18

in the real world's We

30:20

have to imagine that a

30:22

tree branch reaches down and

30:24

touches a wolf. somehow. Would.

30:27

Say that to me as is

30:29

kind of like how much of

30:31

this is just. Part. Of

30:33

the visionary millions. Yeah,

30:36

this is. Our thought:

30:38

this is what a few dreams

30:40

that is almost entirely literal happens

30:43

at that I'd There's with a

30:45

that exception of the tree branch

30:47

touching, everything else seems to happen

30:49

to be real. So it begins

30:52

with him as ghosts and ghosts,

30:54

Islam and thing that we can

30:56

hear his brothers and sister so

30:58

ghost is aware this lady is

31:01

then. And then years as

31:03

some calling john looks around see the

31:05

we're was and and we're what he's

31:07

got the smells he's brand basically a

31:09

boy with it is my brother I

31:11

was a third. I thought it's a

31:13

little bit confusing because initially he saw

31:15

him but his brother and one sister.

31:17

So the brothers carrier the wolves here.

31:19

but then in the next paragraph am

31:21

he sees the tree and his as

31:23

my brother always of. It's hard I

31:25

saw initially when I read that I

31:27

was thinking that sounds like. His

31:29

brother here is John's brother or sister.

31:32

ghosts. Rather interesting, so that was a

31:34

little bit of a season one and

31:36

but anyway, he sells a tree and

31:39

smells like will free and boy and

31:41

rather sense and. Then.

31:43

the ads tree reaches and such as ghosts

31:45

and then sorry confusing what actually happens because

31:48

suddenly he's back up in the mountains so

31:50

site is like ghosts as his memory loss

31:52

raising their this is quite vivid like his

31:54

paws sink in the deep snow and he

31:56

sees he then he goes up and he

31:58

looks down and sees the. And we know

32:00

everything after this does happen and we know the

32:02

beginning. Okay. There's a few things here that I

32:04

want to call out. So as

32:07

is Martin's way, he'll introduce kind

32:09

of a wind experience that when

32:11

he's about to go

32:13

to Northern magic. So

32:15

in this, it says, but only the

32:17

sound of the sigh of the blowing

32:19

snow. So, uh, so

32:22

it's windy. Right. And

32:24

then he hears the voice John and

32:26

it's, um, it's a question mark, John.

32:29

And, um, then, so he

32:31

turns around and he sees a weirwood.

32:35

Um, and so

32:37

because it's the winds

32:39

blowing, which of

32:41

course is a literary clue to

32:43

us, but because it's

32:45

a little sapling and the wind's blowing,

32:47

you could imagine the branches kind of

32:49

moving in the wind. So

32:53

maybe that kind of solves the issue.

32:55

Otherwise we have to imagine that, uh,

32:58

some, some three eyed

33:00

crow has the ability to move the

33:02

branches of this tree. Um,

33:05

and maybe I'm, I'm focusing too much on

33:07

this, but then, then

33:09

it's interesting. After that

33:12

it says where he circled the

33:14

smooth white trunk until he, he

33:16

came to the face, red eyes

33:18

looked at him, fierce eyes as

33:20

they were yet glad to see

33:22

him. The weirwood has his

33:25

brother's face. Had his

33:27

brother always had three eyes.

33:29

So somehow through the wolf's

33:31

eyes, he's not

33:33

just looking at the carved tree

33:36

face. He's, he actually can see

33:38

more and he can see into

33:40

the tree to what he recognizes

33:42

as his brother's face. So

33:45

can, uh, dire

33:47

wolf see more

33:49

of the spirit worlds than a

33:51

human can. That's the first question.

33:54

And then secondly, is it better just to

33:56

think of this as, well, this is a

33:58

dream. You see weird stuff. Even

34:00

if it's sort of conveying the reality to

34:03

the wolf size, part of the

34:05

dream is going to be a little

34:07

bit abstract. Because he initially

34:09

starts the dream as a wolf

34:12

though, it would be a bit weird to be

34:15

dreaming about being a wolf and then actually war

34:17

against a wolf. Normally,

34:19

if he's dreaming of being wolf, he

34:21

actually has worked. And can I also

34:24

just say, you attribute the wind way too much to

34:26

Bran. Every time the wind

34:28

blows, this is not a present talking point. No,

34:32

but it's pretty common that when

34:34

something magic like this is going

34:36

to happen, the first clue

34:39

that it's about to happen is that

34:41

Martin will give us some kind of

34:43

wind indication. And it's not

34:45

necessarily just Bran,

34:47

it's Arya, there

34:50

are a lot of characters in this story

34:52

who are in proximity to werewood. There's

34:55

some kind of divine potency to the

34:57

wind. Yeah, I guess

34:59

sort of when the wrestling the trees is

35:01

a common theme. Maybe you're

35:03

right. Maybe I am reading too much into

35:05

it. It just happens to be a pattern

35:07

I've noticed. Okay, so I

35:09

can see the blowing wind being related

35:12

to the werewood, but my

35:14

interpretation of this was that everything

35:17

was quite literal. It

35:20

is confusing about how the werewood, he sees

35:22

it growing as he's watching it. So that

35:24

is the first part that indicates maybe it

35:26

is a vision. And then the tree reaches

35:28

down and touches him. I

35:30

did highlight our question why when

35:33

he sees the young tree that

35:35

it was growing as he watched.

35:38

I still didn't take it as a theme, but that

35:40

confused me. The next question

35:42

I was going to ask, and I'll ask both of

35:44

you, this is

35:46

sort of Hazel's question, are we sure this is

35:48

Bran? In order for this to be

35:50

Bran, I think

35:53

we have to incorporate a

35:55

bit of time travel, right? Yeah.

35:58

And I don't know if this is a good question. Story has

36:00

properly introduced the concept. Yeah,

36:02

yeah, no. Not really sure

36:05

that I knew. What

36:07

I was reading in I just excitement

36:09

from that go along. Go! Normally that

36:11

likes it to dream. But. Brand name

36:13

is never mentioned, he just says. My.

36:16

Brother and. Cause. Brand currently.

36:20

Is. On. Route.

36:22

Away from winter palace name with them whole

36:25

door which palace just being softer have just

36:27

been take that he and at to i

36:29

know a high direction I know that probably

36:31

a middle her of israel that go hide

36:33

in in the budget so they yeah. Actually,

36:36

We don't know. I don't know for sure

36:38

as the time is the same place right?

36:40

because some. Martin

36:43

doesn't order. Books.

36:45

Credit the story chronologically so this could

36:47

be few months before after. That's not

36:49

a clear to us, but if we're

36:51

just going by the the Sir. Kind.

36:53

Of discourse time at the last

36:55

branch after was just after the

36:58

on yeah sex with yeah but

37:00

it's it's not. I'm a brown

37:02

isn't on. Foot

37:04

so aware of it. you know

37:06

he's not practices and. The. Yes,

37:09

exactly. In fact,

37:12

He says how you have you always

37:14

had three eyes and he says not

37:16

before the crow. And

37:18

that to me suggests.

37:21

That. On the Green Sea

37:23

or side of this conversation if

37:25

it is bran. He's.

37:28

Speaking from the future He's he's

37:30

speaking posts Dance of Dragons. And

37:34

so okay. here's the appears the alternative

37:37

if we don't want to say this

37:39

is Brand Early in the chapter we

37:41

get a little reminder that though the

37:43

Night's Watch refer to each other as

37:46

brothers, right? Movement. he

37:48

says oh corn and mans

37:50

they weren't just brothers they

37:52

were friends reminding us that

37:54

the night's watch call themselves

37:56

brothers he never says the

37:58

name brand just I see

38:01

the face of my brother

38:03

and we know that the

38:05

three eyed crow was once a member

38:07

of the night's watch. So

38:11

I don't know if this, I mean this, well,

38:13

Bloodraven, Bloodraven was originally,

38:16

not originally, but at

38:18

least at one point a member of the night's watch.

38:21

So that would be an alternative here,

38:23

but I think

38:26

the best explanation is Bran. There's

38:30

also, he sniffed at the bark, the smell

38:32

of wolf and tree and boy. So

38:35

like that, it has to be Bran

38:37

given the, so it's like someone we

38:39

know with three eyes,

38:42

someone who's got a boy and has a wolf. And

38:47

he calls out Jon's name so that they

38:49

know Jon and it's

38:51

his brother. Like

38:53

I mean, it has to be Bran, it has to be Bran from the future. And

38:56

I think if

38:58

you just read this in isolation, that

39:00

might be a bit surprising because this

39:03

is effectively time travel. But now that we know the story

39:07

with Hodor and how he

39:09

lost his mind, there's actually the idea

39:11

of Bran being able to see back

39:14

in time affect the past has

39:16

been established previously since this isn't the first

39:18

instance of this. Hodor's existence is probably the

39:20

first instance of this. Yeah, but we would

39:22

know, like at this point, if you're just

39:24

reading the books for the first time, you

39:27

wouldn't know this. So

39:30

I think that we should be

39:32

confident this is Bran, although there

39:34

are alternative readings, I think that

39:36

the best reading, and this is Bran,

39:38

and if that's the case, this

39:41

is kind of our first confirmation of

39:43

working backwards into time, something

39:46

like green scene backwards into time.

39:50

Well, none. I mean, we don't we can't

39:52

say that for all we know, it could

39:54

just be Bran's sleep, right?

39:56

Because this Harry I. Crowe came to

39:59

Bran first after. tree had a fall

40:01

and his dream then. So

40:04

we could just assume at this

40:06

point it's brand dreaming, or maybe

40:08

doing some kind of... Oh,

40:11

okay. ...ringing to that we don't know about. I'm so

40:13

glad you mentioned that. Let me read this little section.

40:15

I think I might have a

40:18

different view of it now. He sniffed

40:20

at the bark, smelled wolf and tree

40:22

and boy. Yeah. But

40:25

behind that there were other scents.

40:27

A rich brown smell of warm

40:29

earth and hard gray smell

40:33

of stone and something else, something

40:36

terrible. Death, he knew. He was

40:39

smelling death. He cringed back, his

40:41

hair bristled and bared

40:43

his fangs. Don't be afraid. This

40:46

is the voice from the tree. Don't be

40:48

afraid. I like it in the dark. No

40:50

one can see you, but you can see

40:52

them. But first you have to open your

40:54

eyes, see like this. And he reached down

40:56

and touched him. So is

40:59

the death part of it the fact

41:01

that maybe he's in the crypts? Crip's

41:04

at Winterfell. Yeah. It

41:08

could be, yeah. I actually did

41:11

not cop that. I had another question about

41:13

what that death could mean. Because I was

41:15

going to ask, what is the stuff... I

41:17

understand what the boy and the wolf is

41:19

and the rich brown smell of earth. I

41:22

was thinking probably, you know, Bloodraven, he's kind

41:24

of merged with the tree or whatever. Now,

41:26

Bran's going to do that. But the

41:29

hard gray smell of stone, what

41:31

is that? Yeah.

41:33

And don't be afraid. I like it. I

41:35

like it in the dark. I mean, the

41:37

stone could be the stone engravings

41:40

of the Kings of Winterfell, right?

41:43

Yeah. Yeah. And

41:45

just the fact that they're in crypts, which are stone,

41:48

right? Yeah,

41:50

that could make sense. I kind of just think because

41:52

he was sort of under

41:54

the tree roots or something. But

41:56

I didn't understand specifically what

41:58

the death was. but

42:00

that would make sense of them sort

42:03

of connecting together while they're

42:05

asleep. Interesting. Yeah,

42:07

and we also know that

42:10

the direwolves fear the crypts.

42:14

Bran couldn't get Summer to go into

42:16

the crypts at the end of

42:18

Game of Thrones. And now Shaggydog was

42:20

in there actually at the time, but Bran couldn't convince

42:22

Summer to go down. Interesting. And in

42:24

general they seem to fear death. Ghosts

42:26

wouldn't go to the first man

42:29

either because there was so much association with death.

42:31

All right. I'm glad we had this conversation. I

42:34

think I don't have a solution at this point.

42:36

I'm pretty sure this is Bran, but I'm

42:39

happy to be corrected on the

42:41

time travel stuff. I don't

42:44

know that we've solved it, but I

42:46

think I'm reading this more carefully. So

42:49

is this the first time that Jon

42:51

is experiencing this? I can't remember. Is this

42:53

his first time being

42:56

inside Ghost's body, seeing

42:59

through his eyes? I

43:02

just looked through the chapters because I asked

43:04

this question as well. I think it's the

43:06

first time. It's very explicit, but I don't

43:08

think it's the first time because I think

43:10

there's comments of him having wolf dreams frequently.

43:12

But this is the first time. Maybe

43:15

it's not the first time. Maybe there's a timer on crasters.

43:18

We have indications that these two are

43:20

connected for sure. This

43:22

is the first time I think it's

43:25

explicit to the reader. It's

43:27

the first time the word skin changer is

43:29

used specifically of Jon. Jon wonders, is he

43:31

talking about the eagle or is he talking

43:34

about me? In

43:36

that moment, it kind of feels like,

43:39

that seems like out of a story, but it kind

43:41

of fits. I

43:45

think the confirmation is that we know that

43:47

Korn is open to the idea. Maybe

43:49

he suspects it. But

43:52

what ends up happening is that he

43:54

hears the dream. He hears about the

43:56

eagle attacking Ghost. Corin

44:00

does not turn back until

44:02

they find Ghost and see that Ghost is

44:04

actually wounded in real life. So

44:07

I almost feel like Corin

44:09

gets confirmation that this was

44:11

not a dream,

44:13

the suspicions have been confirmed,

44:16

he was actually seen through the eyes

44:18

of the wolf and I've got all

44:20

of the information that I need to

44:22

have about the Wildling Host.

44:25

Yeah, I think Corin already did believe it.

44:27

It does seem like they are just going

44:30

on to rescue Ghost. But it wasn't until

44:32

they found Ghost that he actually turned back,

44:34

we're going back up the mountain and all

44:36

the other Rangers were like, what? Why are

44:39

we turning back now? And my

44:41

feeling is that it's

44:43

because Corin needed

44:45

that extra little bit of confirmation

44:48

that the Eagle attack really happened in real

44:51

life. It means

44:53

they've been seen, he knows they've been seen,

44:55

that's the way I interpreted

44:58

that. He knows the

45:00

Eagle, their eyes. Ghost's

45:03

been seen and they've been seen. I'm

45:06

glad that we're talking about the Eagle. Every

45:08

chapter Podrick and I cover together, there's

45:10

some magic bird. There's some magic bird.

45:14

Yeah, I was going to point that out. Maybe

45:16

the most magic bird of all. So

45:19

we find out later that the

45:22

man that John

45:24

killed, that's his first kill

45:26

as a soldier, is

45:29

a man named Orel. Or

45:31

Orel, I don't know how to say the name. And

45:35

Orel was himself a skin

45:37

changer. And

45:39

the reason why we know this is because he

45:41

was connected to this Eagle and

45:44

seemingly when

45:47

Orel was murdered, a part

45:50

of him is now sort

45:52

of living in the Eagle. And

45:55

the Eagle now had hatred for John Snow,

45:57

according to Ygritte. So I just

45:59

thought... that was, to me,

46:02

it was fascinating that the very

46:04

first person John kills is a

46:06

skin changer. It's kind of unfortunate

46:08

that him and Stone's snake didn't swap around, isn't

46:10

it? 50-50 there. Also

46:14

interesting that he's more,

46:16

in the next chapter, he's much more

46:18

interested, he's much more concerned that he

46:20

didn't kill Yegret. He doesn't

46:22

seem concerned at all that he just killed

46:25

the guy. Doesn't he justify that here

46:27

though with when he's talking to Corrin, it's just

46:29

like, you know, it was us

46:31

or them, like they would have killed us if we hadn't killed

46:33

them. It sort of had to be done. And

46:37

that was how I read it. I didn't think, I

46:40

do think he has a bit of a thing

46:42

for Yegret, like immediately. He doesn't, it's not said

46:44

in his thoughts, but I do think that it's

46:48

no surprise that later on that they do kind of

46:51

get together, right? I

46:53

think so. There's a couple indications that

46:55

he's interested in Yegret from the start.

46:57

Well, can I just ask

46:59

a basic question? Is

47:03

skin changing and warging

47:06

the same or is there a

47:08

difference? My understanding from

47:10

reading is that warging is specifically

47:12

into wolves and dogs, and

47:15

where a skin changing is into anything.

47:18

Yeah, that's been my impression. Is warg

47:21

means wolf or dog? Dog?

47:23

Warg? The

47:27

name of the wolves in Lord

47:29

of the Rings. Yeah, I always

47:32

imagine this as kind of

47:36

an homage to Tolkien,

47:39

but sort of a re,

47:41

sort of emerging that

47:43

mythology with kind of a werewolf

47:45

mythology. I mean, that's

47:47

just been my impression. Hi folks,

47:50

just green scene into this

47:52

podcast from the future. Something that

47:54

is relevant to this conversation that I

47:56

forgot that might be interesting is that

47:59

in Old Norse, Wargar,

48:01

V-A-R-G-R, simply means wolf,

48:03

which I knew and

48:06

forgot. What I did not

48:08

know was that it can

48:10

also mean outlaw, which I

48:12

find interesting. Also, I did not

48:14

know that the word werg,

48:17

W-E-A-R-G, in

48:20

Old English means wolf, but

48:23

I would imagine that he's taking this from

48:25

the Old Norse. All right, back to

48:27

the conversation. In

48:29

this world, later on we meet this

48:31

character, Veramir, of six skins. Yeah.

48:34

And we learned a lot more

48:37

about sort of the mechanics behind

48:39

skin changing. In this world, it's

48:41

like projecting your psyche into an

48:44

animal, and if you do

48:46

it near the end of your life, you can have

48:48

a second life. Anyway,

48:51

so... We also guess Veramir

48:55

does wargar skin change into that

48:57

eagle, and it's confirmed

49:00

then that Orl is in the eagle, and

49:03

then Mel-Sandra kills the eagle. Yeah. That's

49:07

right. That's the eagle. Man.

49:12

That's the kom-k-n. So

49:15

notable introductions. I thought

49:19

that this is sort of our

49:21

first introduction to time travel. After

49:23

this conversation, I'm a little bit

49:25

more dubious about that. Here's

49:28

the argument against. Bran

49:31

is not very

49:33

talented as a greenseer yet, or at

49:35

least his talent hasn't been sort of

49:38

honed and trained. So is

49:40

he the kind of guy that would

49:42

be able to talk through the tree

49:46

yet? Yeah,

49:49

it is confusing because there is no tree where

49:51

Bran is, so how is he getting to that?

49:53

But also maybe, as Hazel mentioned, maybe that tree

49:56

isn't actually really there, because it is a bit

49:58

weird that it's like this... barren

50:01

area and this tree is growing out of some

50:03

fissures and it's growing as they speak. So maybe

50:05

it is more dreamlike than I initially interpreted it,

50:07

I think. They're just

50:09

connecting through their dream states or something. Potentially,

50:13

yeah. Connecting through. The wolves are

50:15

connected and these are probably the

50:17

closest wolves in proximity to each other and maybe

50:21

John's powers are enhancing as

50:23

well. So they can

50:25

become more connected. So introduction to the eagle,

50:28

introduction to a few folks

50:30

by name that we hadn't

50:32

met before.

50:34

I guess

50:37

Squire, Dollbridge. They

50:39

call him Squire because he was once

50:41

a squire to a king. So he

50:44

just kind of kept the nickname. Did

50:47

you try and figure out who that was? I

50:49

did take a quick look but it wasn't very

50:52

clear. I mean, there's got to be some Targaryen

50:54

king, right? Yeah, that was what I assumed as

50:56

well and then he was just

50:59

something bad happened so he ended up going to

51:01

the wall. Presumably this was pre-Robert

51:03

Rebellion. Right. I mean, I don't

51:06

know if we have much more than that,

51:08

but unless you've got more evidence. No,

51:12

I didn't. I did quickly try and look it

51:14

up and find anything about us. But it did

51:16

take my interest to write this idea that he

51:18

was squire to a king. It was like, I

51:20

thought that was possibly

51:23

significant, but it doesn't seem

51:25

to be. Well, RIP.

51:29

Yeah, that's right. So

51:31

you have notable departure,

51:33

Dollbridge. Indeed. So

51:36

interesting to me that, all

51:41

right, I listened to this chapter

51:43

on audio last night and then I reread

51:45

it this morning. In the

51:47

audio, the voice

51:49

actor, who's the voice actor? He was also

51:51

in the show. What's his, I forget his

51:53

name now. Roy Dautryse.

51:55

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All right.

51:58

So Dautryse. says this

52:00

line as if it is the voice from

52:02

the tree. This is no

52:04

army no more than it

52:06

is a town. This is a whole

52:09

people come together. So

52:11

those words that are in italics, they're not

52:13

in quotations. So it's sort of a thought

52:16

rather than a something

52:18

that's spoken out loud. Dautry

52:20

interprets this as the

52:23

green scene voice out of the tree. But

52:27

if I was going to when I read this the second

52:29

time, I thought, oh, no, this is just John

52:32

thinking to himself. He's sort of interpreting

52:34

what he's seen. To me,

52:38

this changes the motivation,

52:42

assuming that this is brand. This changes

52:44

the motivation of brand is brand trying to

52:47

tell John, you should have sympathy for

52:49

these people. This is not an

52:51

army. This is a people. Or

52:54

is this John listening to his own conscious

52:56

like, this is not an army. This isn't

52:58

this is a whole culture that he's starting

53:01

to be attracted to it in the

53:03

same way man's was. What do you guys think about

53:05

this? Well,

53:08

I would say that I would say that

53:10

it's just simply the whoever

53:12

was directing Roy Dautry just, you

53:15

know, they just made a slight mistake. These

53:19

things happen. Sounds to me

53:21

that, as you say,

53:23

it's in italics and it's

53:25

John's dream voice

53:27

is the conscience talking to

53:30

himself. What do you think,

53:32

Patrick? Yeah, I took it

53:34

fully to be John. I think my interpretation,

53:37

and maybe this has changed over the course

53:39

of the conversation, is that with the tree

53:42

reaching out and touching ghosts,

53:45

this has made John more like

53:49

a better war, it's enhanced his power

53:51

somehow. And now instead of just being

53:53

in ghosts and kind of doing what ghosts wants

53:55

to do, he's in ghosts, but he's having his

53:57

own Subconscious, his own thoughts as well.

54:00

Oh, you're taking There's no. This is

54:02

sort of John's inner monologue. This is

54:04

Not. A Decisions that are

54:06

march Out and this is John

54:09

seeing know every I didn't even

54:11

consider anything after this astronaut suddenly.

54:14

I think Brown has gone from the picture

54:16

of how I read it anyway. So notables,

54:18

Notable differences. That was it. This whole thing

54:20

is not a new the show this entire

54:23

chapters, but I think that we have a

54:25

notable difference. Between. The

54:27

audio books. And

54:30

the printed page. And

54:32

it would be it beat. This is one of

54:34

the few times were actually would like to ask

54:36

Martin like or what they do it and year.

54:40

Because I I think I think

54:42

we're right. I think that this

54:44

is John's conscience or don't think

54:46

this is Brand. Brands.

54:48

Commentary: I've.

54:52

Been sarah surprising that was friends

54:54

california are now cause of run

54:56

wouldn't says again away I know

54:59

brown of get osha beset why

55:01

would he has sent to the

55:03

your interest in the wailing especially

55:05

at this point to cuss yeah

55:08

is a suture brand your think

55:10

the Fcs future bran. Maybe

55:12

he does have a he is a

55:15

wider and more wise perspective on wildly

55:17

culture. I would assume the brand the

55:19

same in the we're would is very

55:21

short so I say he will see

55:24

things and learn things but he won't

55:26

be and he won't be like to

55:28

a raven who we meet as an

55:30

old man his current a tree. I

55:33

think Brand will. Leave.

55:36

Ends I think that he holder is what

55:38

will happen escapes I don't think he will

55:40

be in the where would I never very

55:42

long. As. To

55:44

the may be. Das.

55:46

At Us or have that much Fisher

55:48

Mission has become coming round of the

55:51

opinion that this is a rule number

55:53

one. I do think that this is

55:55

not Brands voice here. It is confusing

55:58

because the voice from a Tree is

56:00

only said in italics earlier in the

56:02

chapter nine and quotations from though it

56:05

is ambiguous. but I think in this

56:07

case is not Brands voice and no

56:09

confirmation of time travel. Yeah, I think

56:12

I'm. Coming. Around to that view.

56:14

Task. Anthony just under seen em

56:16

what he's looking at. The so many

56:18

men thousand a huge host, summer tear

56:21

and great holes and a half frozen

56:23

ground. What? Did you

56:25

interpreted to mean. Terrine.

56:28

Holes into the half frozen

56:30

ground. So

56:32

my instinct is that it and why I'm

56:34

asking is because I assume some digging looking

56:37

for this horn of charm and you know

56:39

assets of you and you're probably right. I

56:41

miss that. I was just thinking like well

56:43

that's how you. Put. Up a pavilion

56:45

you gotta dig a hole in the

56:48

ground but he quickly bit scary. If

56:50

you can see it from faraway they're

56:52

pretty big holes. Fact is that your

56:54

yeah that's a good. Can't say I've

56:57

missed that. Reserves any final thoughts Hazel.

56:59

I'm. When. John

57:03

Steaks and. Hollering!

57:05

About. What happened when he

57:08

got to let let a dull. John

57:10

approaches current fun. I

57:12

had question about why

57:15

does he. Go.

57:17

That the car and. Ran fine on

57:19

try and admit that he

57:21

let other. And. Then it,

57:24

you know it's sort of com that kind. Of

57:27

says well you let a bad see

57:29

as beginners. You

57:31

know and ago in that they would

57:34

have never seen. As he spoke to

57:36

him and he says he didn't ask

57:38

me about how won't with the girl

57:40

at he's on us begging for Coreys

57:42

almost is like Blaze. I need to

57:45

confess this is like eating at me.

57:47

I need to tell you that I

57:49

let this this wildly girl go and

57:51

I I don't know. I mean I

57:54

kinda feel like maybe an overactive content

57:56

or he thinks. This is

57:58

valuable information they might. No

58:00

of our whereabouts because I didn't

58:02

do it needed to be done.

58:05

And. So maybe it's like I have to

58:07

tell my superior commander. The

58:10

that. We might be in trouble.

58:13

He. Made a compromise that yeah, that's better

58:15

than my interpretation. Which

58:17

was that John is very like Ned

58:20

and as soon as I said before

58:22

his and not only terrible as it's

58:24

not our blair for whatever and analyzing

58:26

terrible happens Rice said so and I

58:28

think John possibly is quite like this

58:30

and is worried that. He he

58:32

steals a lot of given the hunters so

58:35

he wants to admit us and sooners Madison

58:37

Avenue actually analyze this at all but is

58:39

it was? John lies buried batting the aftermath

58:41

of. Is that when

58:43

I see? yeah? so I feel like

58:45

he's scared of lion caliber new era.

58:47

especially your hustler. He's also known as

58:49

laser pointers. Almost surely we actually by

58:51

funny compromise all of us for letting

58:53

us on go for me. She might

58:55

be built like when out. I'm old

58:57

enough that ah, I was. I was

58:59

spanked with a wooden spoon when I

59:01

was a. Young boy and so like

59:04

every now and it would just do

59:06

my mom's she would. Every a I

59:08

really deserve something in a lesson I

59:10

would get swatted with a wooden spoons

59:12

and so one day with with defects

59:14

I decided I'm going to get every

59:17

wooden spoon in the house. I'm gonna

59:19

bury them in the backyard. And

59:22

I thought that isn't This is gonna

59:24

solve all the problems because if there's

59:26

no wooden spoon. I. Will

59:29

not be spanked. And

59:31

then I so I went and bury them

59:33

and maybe five minutes went by before I

59:35

went. Told my mom the what I'd done.

59:37

Because. i felt so guilty because

59:40

the kids please tell us the aftermath

59:42

of his daughter is ah by civil

59:44

what i was sort of like that

59:46

all the space there was sort of

59:48

like were go dig them up and

59:51

bring them back and my dad and

59:53

i was that spanked snc spices this

59:55

seems like we off way this is

59:57

that a common occurrence but it will

1:00:00

That's all it took. All it took was like, well, go

1:00:02

get them. An idea. Well, that's

1:00:05

how it works. It's like the panopto, isn't

1:00:08

it? You don't even need the spoon. Just

1:00:11

the idea of the spoon. Well,

1:00:13

that was it. In our house, we had the thread of the wooden spoon,

1:00:15

but it was never actually used. But the thread,

1:00:17

like, if it was even picked up, the fear and

1:00:19

guilt I would have felt about, oh

1:00:21

my God, not the wooden spoon. I must have done something

1:00:23

else. The spoon. It was

1:00:25

never ever, ever used. And

1:00:28

surely it wouldn't have been terrible. It

1:00:30

just looked like way more things back

1:00:32

in. So I think that John feels guilty

1:00:34

about this. I do think it was the

1:00:36

right thing to do. Corin

1:00:39

needs to know that there

1:00:41

might be someone out there who, you know,

1:00:45

he could easily crush their skulls in their

1:00:47

sleep with a rock. But the greater danger

1:00:50

is that she gets back to the army

1:00:53

and tells man. Anyway.

1:00:58

I suppose to me it was

1:01:01

fair. It's a

1:01:03

more fun way of pushing things along,

1:01:05

you know, to have John go over

1:01:07

and speak to Corin. Well,

1:01:09

it also brings up an interesting little

1:01:12

line. He says, I

1:01:14

didn't... He says, why did you order

1:01:16

me to execute her? And

1:01:18

he says, oh, I didn't order you. I

1:01:20

said, do what needs to be done.

1:01:23

And then I thought you would figure

1:01:25

out what that meant. And

1:01:28

so it was almost like he gave him

1:01:30

enough room to interpret so

1:01:33

that he could learn something about John. What

1:01:35

does John think needs to be done at

1:01:37

this moment? Yeah.

1:01:40

Yeah. It's

1:01:43

a brilliant moment of learning what a

1:01:46

brilliant leader Corin is. It's

1:01:48

too bad we don't have him much longer.

1:01:51

He didn't... I said get the spoon.

1:01:53

All I said was get the spoon.

1:01:55

That's right. And you need to spout

1:01:58

yourself with it. I

1:02:02

like it. I like it a lot. Corin's

1:02:04

only in four chapters, isn't he? And he

1:02:06

makes a massive impression. I know. I was

1:02:08

thinking that I really miss this guy and

1:02:10

I went back and watched his scenes

1:02:12

in the show as well. And the

1:02:15

actor who plays him in

1:02:18

the show, I can't remember his name,

1:02:20

Simon, I mean, he's kind of familiar

1:02:22

to British audiences. I

1:02:25

like this. It's kind of almost

1:02:27

like Wild West, isn't it? It's

1:02:30

kind of a Western scenario. Oh,

1:02:32

say more about that. You've got

1:02:35

this sort of knowledgeable

1:02:37

ranger, the

1:02:39

kid who's

1:02:42

asking all the questions

1:02:44

or whatever, they each

1:02:46

got their own skills.

1:02:48

But it's just the horseback. Right.

1:02:51

And there's almost a Cowboys and Indians

1:02:54

thing happening as well. Well, yeah, I

1:02:56

mean, they're on horseback and they're going

1:02:59

through the canyons and up for

1:03:02

us, the Rocky Mountains or whatever.

1:03:04

And they stop and they can't

1:03:07

have a campfire. That's

1:03:09

really great. I never thought of it in that

1:03:12

way before. I always thought of it in terms

1:03:14

of like a crime drama, like he's going to

1:03:16

end up going out undercover and like, you

1:03:19

know, because, you know, sometimes undercover

1:03:21

cops infiltrating the mafia or something.

1:03:24

But you're totally right. This does have something

1:03:27

of an old Western feel

1:03:29

to it, too. I

1:03:32

think so, you know, and that

1:03:34

sense of, you

1:03:36

know, we're all humans,

1:03:39

you know, and then there's a lot

1:03:41

of wilding in every one of us.

1:03:43

There's a lot to be learned

1:03:45

about imperialism. I

1:03:48

love this chapter. I'm kind of

1:03:51

like amazed that I ever was

1:03:53

bored with John. I

1:03:57

mean, there there's. so

1:04:00

much to talk about in terms of

1:04:02

just the wolf's encounter with the Weawood

1:04:04

tree. It's just, it's so sort of

1:04:06

generative of a larger, the larger

1:04:09

story of magic that really we,

1:04:12

I mean, even if you fast forward all the way to

1:04:14

the end of dance, we know a lot more about

1:04:16

the magic. There's still a lot

1:04:19

of mystery. Definitely. We still, we still

1:04:21

have so much to learn about, especially

1:04:25

about really Bran and what

1:04:27

his abilities will be. We're speculating a lot and

1:04:30

we speculate a lot from the show as well,

1:04:32

which we don't even know for how

1:04:34

accurate it is. Yeah, that's right. Yeah,

1:04:37

Bran's just a little mop,

1:04:40

mop top boy. He's got his little

1:04:42

tops, isn't he? He's

1:04:46

got a little beetle fire cut and he's

1:04:49

underground. Hizli

1:04:53

mentioned the actor playing Corin

1:04:56

Beethoven in British audiences, and that just

1:04:58

reminded me, do you associate the eagle

1:05:00

with a Garris in the office, which

1:05:02

is a Dwight

1:05:05

character? I see, I see, yeah,

1:05:07

yeah, yeah, absolutely.

1:05:09

Anthony, Anthony, just

1:05:11

if you're not, I don't know if you're familiar with

1:05:13

their office, but so in the

1:05:15

US office, the Dwight character, he's a Garris

1:05:18

in the UK office and the

1:05:20

actor plays Garris is the actor plays R.O. Oh,

1:05:23

is that right? Okay. In Game of Thrones. So

1:05:25

it's very hard for me not to see

1:05:28

the eagle and not think of... That's funny.

1:05:30

I've seen a few episodes of the original

1:05:32

office and I never made that connection before,

1:05:34

but now I can see the face. All right,

1:05:36

Nate, probably wondering who

1:05:39

they're going to offer David's job to. Got

1:05:42

it. Lovely. Congratulations.

1:05:44

Thank you. Things are going to start

1:05:46

changing around here, so you can start bucking your ideas up.

1:05:50

Your parents are going to be a well-oiled,

1:05:54

tight ship. And These hair

1:05:56

parts. He.