0:04

If it's Monday, it is Maester

0:06

Class. That's

0:24

right, we're back folks. In the

0:27

upcoming Arya chapter, we

0:29

continue the Harrenhal plot,

0:31

wherein Arya observes several

0:33

Northmen being captured. Anticipating

0:36

that chapter on Thursday, I got

0:38

to ask a specialist on Medieval

0:40

warfare, a listener question, so

0:43

thank you Alex. This

0:45

fits nicely with the upcoming chapter.

0:47

My guest is Kelly DeVries. Professor

0:50

DeVries has been on several television

0:52

shows, but I found him because

0:54

I was given his book Medieval

0:56

Military Technology as a Christmas gift.

0:59

Loved it, loved it, loved it. Recommend

1:01

the second edition. In

1:03

this conversation, he explains

1:06

the relationship between knights

1:08

and wealth. And

1:10

I learned something in this conversation that I did

1:12

not know before. That a knight's

1:14

armor didn't just make him hard to

1:16

kill, it made him such a valuable

1:18

hostage that it would be very rare

1:20

to kill that person. If

1:22

you have a question for an expert

1:25

on Medieval life or literature, you can

1:27

send those to book at baldmove.com. Here

1:29

is an excerpt of my conversation with

1:31

Dr. Kelly DeVries. Alex

1:43

asked this question. Was

1:45

the true advantage of a knight

1:47

simply money? Money for horses. Leisure

1:49

time to train on said horses.

1:52

Plans to purchase the wares of blacksmiths,

1:54

etc. hand.

2:00

I don't know that that's the purpose. I

2:03

think intimidation does help some. So

2:06

if you're a town

2:08

militia member or let's

2:11

say you're an infantry

2:13

man in the Redneu

2:15

and you see

2:18

this guy charging down on you, owning

2:22

a horse that is worth more than you'll

2:24

ever see in your entire life, it

2:26

has to have gone through the mind of

2:28

a lot of these infantry troops. So why

2:31

are we out here? I mean, is it

2:33

really important enough that our

2:35

landowner solved

2:39

his problems with neighbors

2:42

or solved his problems

2:45

with or keeps with the

2:47

obligation of the king that

2:49

we will get written over by

2:51

a guy who the

2:54

horse is worth more than we are

2:56

told? Sure. If

2:58

we fast forward to like, you know, 1400s

3:02

and so we're like full plate

3:04

armor, you know, full blown knighthood,

3:06

that has to

3:08

change the way that you think about trying

3:10

to take that guy down. Oh, yes.

3:14

So it seems like the method,

3:16

what would be the best method

3:19

for striking a fatal blow on someone

3:21

in full armor? Well,

3:23

remember, you don't, nobody ever strikes the

3:25

blow, the fatal blow in a combat

3:28

scenario, necessarily.

3:31

I mean, you can find a

3:33

creek, you can't find an

3:35

edge of the armor. Your guys always like

3:37

to get in, get in an armpit and

3:39

bleed the guy to death or something. Yeah.

3:41

And well, this is yes, I was asked

3:43

this by you remember the old Spike

3:46

TV show where they put two

3:49

warriors in different periods. And

3:51

they always said, Oh, they were going with this. So

3:54

the rings on a male would burst

3:56

open. I said, No, they didn't. Of

3:58

course they didn't. I Mean, That is

4:00

why would people the uses of

4:02

it was failed against. you know,

4:04

against a sword or failure And

4:06

these visions I'd seen it experiments

4:08

done, the royal armouries where they

4:10

just. Whack? To things as

4:12

long as you've got the mail movie

4:14

as of would on a body he

4:17

kept can't penetrate with it Begins by

4:19

proof that they even have this big

4:21

huge Mm may Geico add with assorted

4:23

the didn't reveal been. Break. The

4:25

lake what he needs. Zoo was

4:28

disabled that got knocked him down

4:30

on source get him on the

4:32

ground the we actually know the

4:35

wounds The killed the blind Prince

4:37

of Bohemia Alabama prestigious forensic archaeologists.

4:40

Went. To the bones And so a habit. Of

4:43

it is a the he as

4:45

one of the wound on his heels

4:47

probably superficial. A jazz Three

4:49

Cats cross. The risk is holding a

4:52

source that would have been done post

4:54

mortem. Trying. To get a space

4:56

sort out a man's name. but the

4:58

to the kill them. Wanna.

5:00

Do the kill Them. Is. That

5:03

he was on his back on

5:05

the ground. And somebody

5:07

penetrates and right through his

5:09

chest, probably into the heart.

5:12

With a sword or a staff

5:14

weapon or something goes right through you

5:17

using the green grass to look at.

5:19

Just a good about it. kind of

5:21

ironic. It. Was as a dagger in

5:24

the ah. Now

5:26

the blind friends from his young person could

5:28

see a drug dagger. the ah. But.

5:31

If you've got a guy on the ground. Your.

5:34

Ability to kill him. Is.

5:37

Very very up in passed out

5:39

to figure that if the guys

5:41

on the grounds and so that

5:43

there's resistance to the back of

5:45

the guy you have a better

5:48

chance of pure seen the chest

5:50

armor. Yes, Absolutely especially

5:52

the way mail as blood Prince

5:55

would. Are. Because you just

5:57

simply. Driving. your sword

5:59

and dry having something with

6:01

full force of the arms into

6:03

a defenseless man who

6:05

now can't absorb the

6:08

blow because he's up there.

6:10

His armor can only do so much but

6:12

he's on the ground. He can't. But

6:15

the other thing is you don't have to go that way.

6:18

You could lift up the

6:20

armor on the neck and take a dagger.

6:22

Everybody's got a dagger. Take a

6:24

dagger into the artery. You

6:27

can go under the armpit,

6:30

as you mentioned, into the heart and you

6:32

can go into the crotch and get the

6:34

femoral artery and that'll kill him.

6:37

The point was if they're

6:40

wearing armor that good, you don't

6:42

want to kill them. They're worth much more

6:44

alive. You can use

6:46

them as hostages. As ransom. There

6:51

was always ransom given back and forth, huge

6:53

amounts of ransom. We get

6:55

letters. Could I sell my force to get

6:57

my dad out of English

7:00

control? A

7:02

letter to King John, John

7:05

II of France saying, can

7:07

I sell my force because

7:09

I need to get money together to get my

7:11

dad out of England? He's

7:14

been captured crazy. Very few people were but

7:16

he was. If

7:19

you're on the battlefield and you've got full

7:24

armor head to toe polished to a

7:26

high sheen, you've got to think your

7:28

chances of surviving that battle are pretty

7:30

good. You've just

7:32

advertised that you've got money. Yes. So

7:35

they want to probably spend some time

7:38

in a cell if you get captured,

7:40

right? Oh, you might. But let me

7:42

know. Charles Voorley owned after the Battle

7:45

of Agincourt where he was captured. He

7:47

was in England for like 33 years. First

7:51

of all, they really cared to get him out because

7:53

his bastard brother was so much more

7:56

effective on the battlefield. He

7:59

fights with Joan of Arc. He fights all the way

8:01

through and defeats the English at

8:03

the Battle of Forminy in 1450. So

8:06

who cares about Charles? He can make poetry over

8:08

in England and let him go around. And he's

8:10

never going to be treated badly because of his,

8:12

you know, he's a member of the royal family

8:14

and everything about him. When

8:17

John is captured, the English try to send

8:19

him back because it costs them more than

8:21

they're going to get for ransom, keeping him

8:23

in the splendor. A king should be kept

8:25

in. You know, don't

8:28

toss him in the hole and then

8:30

say, well, we'll let you out when

8:32

the ransom comes because at that point

8:34

nobody's going to pay for the

8:36

guy who's emaciated and

8:39

mistreated. But ransom

8:41

does work. When it

8:43

happens, like crazy, for example, the English

8:45

are really concerned. They don't

8:47

have enough troops. They don't have as many troops as the

8:49

French. And so, in fact,

8:51

Edward does something that very

8:54

few Western commanders can do and

8:56

he says no quarter. And

8:59

so that's one of the reasons why the

9:01

black prince of Bohemia, the king of Bohemia,

9:03

is killed and

9:06

they're doing it, you know, once he's

9:08

disabled when he could have been taken off and

9:10

probably brought a lot of ransom. But

9:12

the king has said no quarter, doesn't want prison. And

9:16

then at Agico we get the English

9:18

have captured so many French that

9:20

their line is now dissolving. And the ransom

9:22

is no good if you capture somebody who's

9:24

on his honor and you're standing over next

9:26

to him, holding onto him because you're going

9:28

to claim that ransom. It does no

9:31

good if you lose. You're not

9:33

going to get ransomed for good. So

9:35

Henry had to have the

9:38

prisoners killed and so his line could be

9:40

restored and he wins the battle. And

9:43

that was coming out by everybody. After

9:46

the copilis when the Ottomans, just

9:49

because they don't have the

9:51

same idea of ransomed, start

9:53

killing all the prisoners they're taking on the

9:55

copilis with a lot of French

9:57

and Burgundy knights having surrendered.

10:00

And they just start killing people off. And

10:02

it's mentioned by everybody, you know, how could they do this?

10:04

So there's, you know, basically if you were wealthy enough, then

10:06

you did not die on the battlefield.

10:17

Unless you're near a river. Unless you're near a river.

10:19

And that happens frequently. But, you know, as you go where there's

10:21

only two nobles that are killed. One of them is the brother

10:23

of Henry V. On the English side, there's only two nobles killed.

10:25

Now there's many on the other side, but that's because they killed

10:27

the prisoners. The Battle of Bousvines, it says that the French who

10:29

win the battle, and are fighting against the Flemings

10:31

of the Germans and rebel French

10:33

lords all over. And

10:38

the French win, and they lose less than a

10:40

hundred. And yet, we've had forces on the battlefield.

10:44

And that's the only thing that's happened. And

10:46

the French win, and they lose less than

10:48

a hundred. And

10:50

yet, we've had forces on the battlefield. 50,000 plus

10:53

on each side. How

10:56

could they only lose a hundred? Now the other side

10:58

is lost. You know, their casualty

11:00

rates will be higher because they

11:02

have lost. And

11:05

so they may have been killed in the mee-lame.

11:08

They put to death. Who knows? But

11:10

they may also count anybody who's going for

11:12

ransom as a casualty. So,

11:15

you know, but a hundred is all

11:17

the French lose. So,

11:20

you know, it's not necessary.

11:24

The rules of war in the Middle Ages

11:27

are very different because the way

11:30

that the armies are set up, the

11:33

way that the feudal system,

11:35

the nobility, the obligatory system,

11:39

puts very, very wealthy men at the top. And

11:42

you can see them by their distinctive armor

11:44

and their quality of horses and

11:46

so forth. That's very different than

11:48

Romans fighting against the gods. You