0:06

Welcome to How to Citizen with Baritun

0:08

Day, I show where we reimagine

0:10

the word citizen as a verb and

0:12

remind ourselves how to wield

0:15

our collective power. I'm

0:17

Baritun Day.

0:23

I'm recording this on Wednesday, the fourth

0:25

of November, at

0:28

roughly three pm Pacific

0:31

time six thirty pm Eastern

0:33

time. We don't yet have a

0:35

confirmed winner of the presidential election,

0:38

but we know the direction that things

0:41

are moving towards. We expected

0:43

this. They literally

0:45

told us it's election season, not

0:48

election day. Michelle Obama

0:51

told us to bring lunch and dinner

0:53

to the polls. We knew

0:55

it could take days, possibly weeks,

0:58

not hours, to know the results,

1:01

and that's because we had record votes

1:04

submitted by mail, and those votes

1:06

take time to count. So

1:08

let them count. I am

1:11

tired. I put

1:14

a lot of energy into this election,

1:18

and I am excited

1:21

in part and hopeful.

1:24

I am disappointed in part and

1:27

angry. I

1:29

am tired, but just

1:32

edging out my fatigue is

1:36

pride. I am

1:38

proud of you. I'm

1:41

proud of us. We

1:44

voted in record numbers.

1:47

We demonstrated that first pillar

1:49

of what it means to citizen, what we talk

1:52

about in this show so much.

1:55

We showed up, we

1:57

participated, We stood together for

1:59

each each other despite so many difficulties

2:02

in an already too difficult year,

2:06

We the people claimed

2:09

our power and it's

2:12

a beautiful thing. Democracy

2:15

was on the ballot, and

2:17

democracy, though challenged,

2:20

is rising. Thank

2:23

you citizens, and

2:26

thank you local election officials

2:28

who made this possible. Seriously, thank

2:31

your local election official. Find them on the

2:33

internet, Send them cupcakes or

2:35

pizzas, or cupcake

2:37

pizzas or pizzas made out of cupcakes,

2:39

whatever it is. They deserve some

2:43

praise and some gratitude for making

2:46

something so rough run relatively

2:48

so smooth. Joe Biden

2:51

has received more votes for president

2:53

than any person in US history.

2:57

Every demographic group turned out.

2:59

The US experienced record

3:01

turnout from everyone.

3:05

This happened in a season of lawsuits

3:07

and moves to restrict voting, a

3:09

season of hurricanes and fires,

3:11

a season of threats to the postal

3:14

service, and above

3:16

all, a season of

3:19

COVID. That's right,

3:22

the pandemic isn't over just because

3:24

you're over it. Regardless

3:27

of the outcomes of the various elections

3:29

in the United States, COVID

3:32

nineteen is here and

3:34

stronger than ever. We

3:36

are near a hundred thousand

3:39

average new cases every

3:41

day, and that number is climbing.

3:44

Our hospitals across the nation are

3:46

reaching their limits again. Things

3:49

will get worse before

3:51

they get better. That's real,

3:53

y'all. Things will

3:56

get worse before they

3:58

get better. Our

4:00

guests in this episode said, if

4:04

you don't know someone who has died from COVID, you

4:07

will. Our guests

4:09

is literally the one person

4:11

I trust above all others

4:14

on COVID matters,

4:16

and it was my dream, an

4:18

almost literal dream,

4:20

that he would agree to be on this show.

4:23

And thanks to one of you a

4:26

listener, thanks Mishoq. Two

4:28

weeks ago we recorded with him

4:31

and our live zoom audience as

4:35

we start to emerge from the intensity

4:38

of a difficult election. We

4:41

are landing right in the middle

4:44

of the most intense version yet

4:47

of a difficult pandemic. And

4:51

there is no one in

4:53

this world I would rather talk

4:56

to and have you learned from then,

4:58

Dr Michael Oster. I

5:01

literally trust this man with my life

5:04

and our lives. So

5:06

I'm gonna pass the mic to myself from

5:08

two weeks ago, a little bit of audio

5:11

time travel, and I'll meet you

5:13

on the other side of this interview with

5:16

one of the nation's premier and longest

5:18

serving disease detectives, and

5:21

you'll see as I do, that he's

5:23

not just that, he's also a

5:26

stellar citizen. This

5:32

pandemic is not over. It's

5:35

far from it. In the United States, were well

5:37

passed two hundred thousand people

5:40

who are dead, hundreds dying each

5:42

day, up to a thousand even And

5:45

COVID nineteen was supposed to bring us all together,

5:47

supposed to come for us all equally, supposed to

5:49

unite us, but in so many ways it feels

5:51

like it hasn't yet. There

5:53

are voices out there, There are people out

5:56

there, including probably you,

5:59

who have helped, who have stepped up, who

6:01

have citizens hard in

6:03

this hard moment, and

6:05

we have been looking for that good

6:07

information in this time.

6:10

I found that information at a very fortunate

6:12

time in my life. I will never forget

6:15

the date, March eleven, my

6:18

flight back from New York

6:20

City with Elizabeth, the last

6:22

flight of the year. It seems like it will

6:24

end up being and in the waiting area

6:26

for the plane. I believe it's called a gate.

6:29

So he almost forgot what you call those areas of

6:31

airports because it's been so long. We're

6:33

in the gate area and I come across a

6:35

friend who's on the same flight, and he

6:37

said, have you listened to this

6:39

guy Ulster Home on Joe Rogan? And

6:41

I said, no, I've never heard of it. And I hadn't

6:43

listened to Joe Rogan in a while actually,

6:45

And so we downloaded the

6:48

YouTube video version, just a little clip

6:50

and the whole podcast to listen to

6:53

chill for the flight home. It

6:56

was not a chill flight home. It was a

6:58

very alertness raised moment

7:00

and we landed as different people than the ones

7:03

we took off as, because Dr Ulster

7:05

Home presented pure

7:08

information with humility but with confidence

7:10

at the same time. And I have been following

7:13

him ever since. Is my primary

7:15

source of trusted information in this time.

7:17

If you've been listening to me on any platform,

7:19

you know that Dr oh is my go to

7:21

guy. It has been really

7:24

beautiful to hear his podcast, The Ulster Home

7:26

Update, which I encourage everyone to subscribe

7:28

to. It's the once a week must listen

7:31

on this subject. And to give a little

7:33

meat on the bones of this introduction,

7:36

Dr Michael Olster Holme is an American

7:38

epidemiologist. He's a Regent's

7:40

professor and director of the Center for Infectious

7:43

Disease Research and Policy at the University

7:45

of Minnesota. He served as a Science

7:48

Envoy for Health Security on behalf of

7:50

the U. S State Department. He's the author

7:52

of the New York Times best selling two thousand seventeen

7:54

book Deadliest Enemy, Our

7:57

War against Killer Germs, and in

7:59

my opinion, he is citizening

8:01

so hard on behalf of all

8:04

of us right now. So welcome

8:06

Dr Michael Osterholm, and thank you as

8:08

you do with your show. Thank you so much

8:10

for taking the time out of your schedule to

8:12

spend time with us. Well,

8:14

thank you. And I want to be really clear

8:17

about this. You know, any time you're on a program,

8:19

you're supposed to be polite and thank the

8:21

individual inviting you all those kinds

8:24

of things. This is not what

8:26

these words are about. This is a true, sincere,

8:30

and very honest thank you to you

8:32

for the message you've been bringing to this

8:34

topic, because what you've added

8:37

is something so much more important than just

8:39

the facts. It's the context. It's

8:41

the way we're going to get through this. So I

8:43

can tell you at our center at the University

8:46

Minnesota, you're one of our heroes We've

8:48

listened to you, we follow you, and I've

8:50

learned a great deal from you. So I

8:52

just want to thank you for that. And

8:55

it takes a bit to teach an old man, but you've

8:57

been doing a pretty good job. So thank you. Thank

8:59

you for that. In the beginning, dr

9:02

Ulsterholme, of this pandemic

9:05

hitting the United States, what

9:07

was your hope for how the people and the

9:09

government of this country would react. Give

9:12

me your best case scenario that

9:14

you were hoping we step into. Yeah,

9:16

well, maybe if I could just even take a step back

9:18

from that to give you some context to where we got

9:20

into that leaf. You know, our center began

9:23

following the situation the last week of

9:25

December, and you know, we

9:27

have our ears and eyes open all the time

9:30

for what is going on around the world caused

9:32

by an infectious disease, and

9:34

we recognized that last week of December,

9:37

something very unusual and very alarming

9:40

was happening in Wuhan, China. Within

9:42

the first week of January, it became

9:45

clear that it was not being caused by an influenza

9:47

virus, and that likely

9:50

was being caused by a coronavirus, which

9:52

actually, believe it or not, temporarily

9:54

gave me some hope in a way that I

9:56

otherwise might not have. And that is because

9:58

I've been quite involved with working on

10:01

coronavirus infections, having

10:03

been quite involved with the stars response

10:06

that this country had as well as

10:08

the world back in two thousand three to that

10:10

severe acute respiratory distress

10:12

sunder. And we learned in that pandemic

10:15

almost kind of event was

10:17

the fact that we could control those virus

10:20

because it is one that you

10:22

did not become highly infectious till the

10:24

second week of your infection. So

10:26

if we could identify you early, we could

10:28

get you isolated in a hospital

10:31

make sure you didn't transmit anyone else. So

10:33

based on that, when we saw Wolhan, we

10:36

thought, well, you know what, if this is a coronavirus,

10:38

we just have to identify all the clinically

10:40

ill patients as soon as possible, isolate

10:43

them, and then once we do, we

10:46

will be able to stop this and we'll find the

10:48

animal reservoir. Well. By January

10:50

tenth, it became clear to us, wait a minute, something

10:53

is very different here. This is

10:55

not just another coronavirus

10:57

infection like that people were getting

10:59

in effective. It looked like from having contact

11:02

with people who weren't sick, people who

11:04

were transmitting the virus with minimal

11:06

symptoms not later on, and

11:09

by January it would be abundantly

11:11

clear to us with transmission. Now it occurred

11:13

in multiple Asian countries, and

11:16

that we were seeing this pattern emerge, we

11:18

went, oh, my, this is now going to

11:20

cause the next pandemic in the world. It's

11:22

not going to be good. It's going to be a serious

11:25

challenge, and so we tried to get the world

11:27

to wake up. At that point, we put a statement out

11:29

saying in January, this was going

11:31

to cause the next worldwide pandemic. And

11:34

my first reaction, as you were

11:36

asking about, was why over

11:38

the course of the next month that it takes so

11:40

long for people to actually buy into

11:42

this, because it really

11:45

postponed. Are coming to grips with what

11:47

we needed to do. In February,

11:49

I published an op ed in The New York Times

11:52

again saying this is a pandemic. It's

11:54

coming, get ready, we have to start

11:56

doing with it. And I caught so much

11:58

negative feedback from saying, you know, you're

12:00

just scaring that a lot of us don't do that. Okay,

12:03

this flew is much worse, and

12:05

it wasn't really until several weeks later

12:07

that we finally started to see the body of

12:09

Public Health and medicine and the general public

12:12

start to understand this. And

12:14

it was at that point I went from despair

12:17

that we weren't understanding as to want us saying,

12:20

Okay, now we get it. Now we're

12:22

gonna do something about this, and

12:24

we're going to devel up and you know, plans

12:27

or what we need to do to detect it in our

12:29

communities, how to treat patients,

12:31

how to limit its transmission. And

12:33

that's where I did have a great hope that

12:35

we're going to do much more than ultimately

12:37

we ever did. Thank you for the first

12:40

background to can take us all the way back to December, which

12:42

it feels like fifty years ago, when

12:44

when you rewind just not even quite

12:47

a year. I have been very frustrated

12:49

by the months since March,

12:52

since everyone knew and publicly

12:55

knew what needed to happen, and

12:57

I think a lot of us have been drowning in the bad

12:59

news. And I want to know from

13:01

you what have you seen during

13:03

this time, especially even now that

13:06

gives you hope that we can still

13:08

rise to the occasion. What are you proud

13:11

of? In the response? Because I'm searching

13:13

it it's very hard to find. Well,

13:15

and thank you, and let me add context

13:17

to this because I'm like you in

13:19

the sense that you know, I approached

13:22

this as someone who has had

13:24

a role in the last five presidential administrations.

13:28

I serve to Republican governors, to in democratic

13:31

governors, one independent government Minnesota

13:33

as a state ulogist over the years. You

13:36

know, the public close

13:38

contacts have little understanding of my

13:40

partisan politics of ourity. My

13:42

job is just to be an umpire and calls balls

13:44

and strikes. So today I'll do that for you.

13:46

Also, you know it's not partisan, But

13:49

I have to say that as we talk about

13:51

this, the one thing that has given me so

13:54

much hope is something

13:56

you've experienced, and that is with our podcast.

13:59

We now have had many hundreds

14:01

of thousands of listeners and

14:03

the communications we hear from them,

14:06

people still believe, in their

14:08

heart of hearts, as bad as this virus

14:11

is and what it's doing, kindness,

14:14

empathy, understanding will

14:16

win the day, and they just

14:18

want that type of context.

14:21

We'll take the facts, will take the hard information,

14:24

but how can we do this with understanding

14:27

how can we reach out? And you

14:29

know, I've been working now for the

14:31

better part of six

14:34

weeks on these podcasts to actually

14:37

build a whole movement of

14:39

what I call the kindness pandemic, to

14:41

take on the terrible

14:43

virus pandemic. And so I think

14:46

that there are many many people who want

14:48

to help however they can. They

14:51

will take the scientific information, they

14:53

will take the medicine of what we need to do,

14:56

but they don't want to miss out on

14:58

the understanding. Know, if there was

15:00

ever a time now it should be

15:03

humankind versus of virus, not

15:05

humans versus humans. It is now. And

15:07

I think that has been so encouraging to me. The

15:10

number of emails, a number of follow ups

15:12

we get from the people who listen, have

15:15

just given my hope such a strong

15:17

backing. And uh and that's why

15:19

I started coming on this show today was really

15:21

important for me and for our group,

15:24

because you too understand

15:26

that how important that whole

15:28

concept is. And that's why I'm

15:31

here. Let the kindness pandemic

15:33

wash across the land. How

15:46

do you stay connected to the human

15:49

part of this story? A lot of us

15:51

are inundated with numbers

15:53

and trailing seven

15:55

day moving averages and the

15:58

death rate for the a that's

16:00

on the home page. There's so many of our news organizations

16:04

and you've been in this work for decades, So how

16:06

do you stay connected to the people behind all

16:08

these numbers. Well, first,

16:11

I work with an incredible team of people who

16:14

every day remind us that

16:17

these are not numbers. These are people, These

16:20

are loved ones, These are someone's

16:23

very special person in their

16:25

life. And so you know, I I

16:27

we try never to forget that. And it's

16:29

not like you have to try, it's just a reminder

16:32

of put it in context. And

16:34

then you know, it's just reaching out to people

16:36

because you know, kindness is so

16:39

much easier to do. It's like love. The

16:41

more you give away, the more you have. And

16:43

I think that you know, in this time,

16:46

this is what sustains me. You know, this is what

16:49

keeps me from going to bed at night

16:51

and saying to myself, I can't get up in the morning and do

16:53

this one more time. It's just the opposite. I

16:55

gotta get up, I want to get up. I gotta

16:57

be there. You know, yesterday I recorded

16:59

a podcast live and

17:02

we started a new part

17:04

of the podcast where we're now

17:06

each week detailing and

17:08

living in moral you might say

17:11

someone who has died recently of COVID

17:13

nineteen and just telling their story, because

17:15

there are so many stories to tell, And

17:17

so I took the prerogative to tell a story

17:20

about somebody from my own small

17:22

hometown in Iowa. An individual

17:24

who had had a distinguished your career in the Air Force,

17:27

retired as lieutenant colonel, came back

17:29

to my little hometown in Iowa

17:32

and took over the family greenhouse, and

17:34

over the course of several decades

17:37

he was responsible for the flowers that lit

17:39

up our town. Where they were for funerals,

17:41

where they were for weddings, where they were for any

17:43

other special occasions. But what I remember

17:46

most about him was the fact

17:48

that my mother and I come from

17:50

a family of very little means. Was

17:53

a very proud, good Irish Catholic woman,

17:55

Abbey Ryan. And you

17:57

know, every Easter I would say about

17:59

my money from my paper out to

18:02

go and buy a corsage for her to go

18:04

to Eastern mass And she

18:06

was so proud to wear that. It could have been

18:08

twenty below zero and she would have made

18:10

sure her dress had no code on it so that

18:12

corsage was standing out there, and

18:15

I used to go up and get that corsage

18:17

every Easter Friday

18:20

from Jim, like a gentleman who died

18:22

in September. Being able to

18:25

tell that story again last night,

18:27

being able to actually share this

18:29

was not a man that died from COVID, This was

18:32

my friend. This was my somebody

18:34

who had a major influence in my life,

18:36

who brought something. And I think we just don't

18:38

forget that. If we don't forget that,

18:41

there are so many people, and if you don't know somebody who's

18:43

died at COVID already, I'm sorry

18:45

to tell you what you will. We're going to

18:47

see an increasing number of people who are

18:49

becoming what we call long haulers, people

18:52

who are not necessarily that ill

18:54

early in their illness with COVID nineteen.

18:57

In fact, manyum have very mild symptoms. They're

18:59

often other wise previously healthy young adults,

19:02

and unfortunately ten of

19:04

these people are going on and developing a

19:07

very very severe syndrome, a collection

19:09

of signs and symptoms. Fifth or

19:11

six weeks, they're almost disabled,

19:13

they're on oxygen in some cases, their

19:16

X rays of their hearts and their lungs look terrible,

19:19

and they have what is in essence of

19:21

severe chronic fatigue syndrome. Like picture.

19:23

You know, we need to be there for these people.

19:25

It's not just the people who are in our hospitals

19:28

and intensive care units. And so I think

19:30

now is the time where if we let

19:32

kind of shine, you know, like

19:35

I said a moment ago, the more you give away,

19:37

the more you have, the better you feel. And so

19:39

that's how I stay connected is just

19:42

understanding these people and knowing that

19:44

every one of these numbers is someone's

19:46

loved one. Every one of these numbers is

19:48

somebody who made a difference, and that's

19:50

what we can never forget. You said

19:53

something there about if

19:55

you don't know someone who's died of COVID,

19:58

you will that feel is like

20:00

a very depressing forecast

20:02

for the path of this disease. Can

20:05

you expand on that a little bit in terms

20:07

of what you see over the next

20:09

year that we should all be preparing

20:12

ourselves for. Well, first of all,

20:14

here's your opportunity. Let me I'll

20:16

cover that. I hope no one in

20:18

your life does die from COVID,

20:21

but the chances are increasing with increasing

20:23

numbers they will. So you know what, treat

20:25

everybody around you as

20:27

if today was the day before they die, and

20:30

you know what, almost none of them will,

20:33

but boy, everyone will be better for

20:35

it. Now. The reason I say to the dying

20:37

part is because in fact, we're

20:40

seeing the case numbers go up precipitously

20:42

right now. What's happening, Well, first

20:45

of all, pandemic fatigue has set

20:47

in. People are saying, I've been doing this for long

20:49

enough. I need to be out, I need to be with

20:51

people. And I understand that.

20:53

That's not to say that that's not a reality,

20:56

but also understand the consequence of someone's

20:58

behaviors. We see college students

21:00

coming back to school. That's great, but

21:02

their socializing means that transmission

21:05

is sometimes pretty dramatic and

21:07

the challenges Many of these people won't go

21:09

on to be hospitalized or serious illnesses.

21:12

They will go on potentially and developed this longhauler

21:14

condition. But what really also

21:17

is important is they transmit this virus

21:19

to their mom and dad, to their gramp and grammar,

21:21

to the older colleagues they work with, and

21:24

so that's a channel. And then finally, this

21:26

category that I call pandemic

21:28

anger, it's up to a third of the

21:30

people of this country right now believe

21:33

that this pandemic is a hoax. They

21:35

believe it's some kind of politically motivated

21:37

action to impact negatively

21:40

on someone. And I don't

21:42

understand that. You don't have to look far

21:44

to see the pain and suffering. But

21:47

if you add this all up, that means we're going to see

21:49

a lot of additional transmission. Today

21:51

we estimate that about ten percent of the US

21:54

population has been infected by this virus. That's

21:56

all, for all the pain and suffering,

21:58

economic disruption, and death, we

22:02

won't see this virus slowed down transmission

22:04

until it gets to fifty of

22:07

the population, and then only then it slows down

22:10

transmission. It doesn't stop, and

22:12

so we've got a long ways to go now. Our hope

22:14

is that we can keep people from

22:16

becoming infected having to develop

22:19

their immunity that way, and that we

22:21

can see vaccines coming forward

22:24

early next year into the Midsummer

22:26

that can actually be administered that will help protect

22:28

us. And that's the way we

22:30

want to find ourselves becoming immune

22:33

to this virus, not through some illness. And

22:35

the one thing I covered in my recent

22:37

podcast, As we get closer and closer

22:39

to the holidays, think about that for yourself.

22:42

You don't want to be the reason mom

22:45

or Dad or gramp and Grammar get infected

22:47

because you came home not knowing that you

22:49

were carrying the virus and they died. We

22:52

have far too many examples just like

22:54

that. I want to pick up on the thread

22:57

of it doesn't have to be this

22:59

way, that there are things we can

23:01

do. And you've been clear and proactive,

23:03

and I appreciate that about the disproportionate impact,

23:06

so you know more than most how this isn't

23:09

fair. What can we do? What are

23:11

you calling on us to do collectively

23:14

to improve the situation beyond

23:16

what you've already said? Well,

23:18

you know, and I don't mean to sound trite

23:20

by saying this, but we will

23:23

be held accountable if we don't take advantage

23:25

of this crisis to understand

23:29

the lack of

23:31

what I would call just human

23:34

decency when it comes

23:36

to life and who we

23:38

want to be as a society. Racial

23:41

disparity, socio economic issues

23:44

are by themselves, I think such

23:46

an underappreciated issue

23:48

by far too many. We're seeing

23:51

more and more understanding of that, and

23:53

unfortunately it happens through painful events.

23:56

But I think this disease is putting

23:58

a spotlight on this, you know

24:00

why and how can we have such disproportionate

24:03

impact. Well, you know, first

24:05

of all, we have to understand that this pandemic

24:07

is not only cruel, but in some

24:09

ways it's so unfair. And

24:11

what I mean by that is it has been

24:14

shoulder by the black brown

24:16

in indigenous communities in ways that so

24:18

many others haven't had to know. You

24:21

know, when you're an essential worker and you don't have a

24:23

choice whether you can go to work or not you have to go to

24:25

work, when you're in a living condition

24:28

where you have three generational families

24:30

living in a two better apartment and you're supposed

24:33

to isolate yourself from mom and dad or grandpa

24:35

and grandma and your kids when you get infected.

24:38

Um. You know, I could go through a

24:40

litany of these kinds of

24:42

experiences that I

24:44

think have been so challenging because

24:47

they really have created this

24:50

racial and I think all barrier

24:52

that I think is such a problem. You

24:54

know, I must say, you know, I was very

24:56

challenged. My emotions were

24:59

on the boiling edge when

25:01

we saw large outbreaks and meat packing

25:03

plants in this country in the

25:05

early part of the pandemic, and

25:08

for which if you know who is working

25:10

shoulder to shoulder incredible hours,

25:13

very very tough work. It

25:16

was communities of black, brown,

25:18

and indigenous populations, and

25:21

when they were forced to go back to work

25:23

as essential workers, even though transmission

25:25

was widely spreading in that meat

25:27

packing facility as they worked shoulder

25:30

to shoulder, and then for some states

25:32

to not only just declare them essential workers,

25:34

but that if they were to not go back

25:36

to work out of fear of contracting

25:39

the virus and then possibly of bringing it home

25:41

to a loved one that could be having

25:43

risk factors for serious disease, they

25:46

didn't get their unemployment. That

25:48

was just wrong, wrong, And

25:52

so I think that what we need to do is understand

25:54

the lessons that this pandemic has taught

25:56

us about the goodness of

25:58

being human, and that, you know, if

26:01

there is anyone in our country

26:03

who is suffering from disparities,

26:06

we all suffer, and I hope

26:08

that we can shine a positive light on

26:10

how to change this. You know, this

26:12

isn't us versus them. We are all

26:14

together in this. And so if there's

26:16

a silver lining to this very dark cloud,

26:19

is one of them, is just that let's

26:21

shine this light on it. Let's make it loud and clear

26:23

what happened and why and what

26:25

can we do about it? You know, imagine

26:28

if this is your child or

26:30

your aunt or uncle who are

26:32

living in that two bedroom apartment

26:34

with three generations of people, and

26:37

because you did go to your job every day

26:39

and you took public transit and you are an

26:41

essential worker, and now you're coming home

26:43

infected, how do you bubble protect

26:46

them? You can't in that setting,

26:48

in any meaningful way. You can't. That shouldn't

26:51

happen like that. So I hope that that

26:53

we take this opportunity to take

26:55

a step back and look not just as

26:57

our bodies as something that can get

26:59

infect of the virus, we look at our souls

27:02

something about how do we right the wrongs

27:04

that I think our society continues to

27:07

suffer. Mm hmm. I

27:09

thought you were gonna say wear masks. That was way

27:11

more impressive and deeper, deeper work.

27:14

Well, I think you should do that too, But

27:16

I think you know, we can't hide

27:18

behind the masks, as you well know, we have to

27:20

start looking at our souls and asking ourselves,

27:23

you know, as citizens, what does this mean?

27:26

The work that you do when your team

27:29

does depends on the rest

27:31

of us listening and

27:34

uh and doing our part as citizens

27:36

as well. I wanted to ask

27:38

you, how do you think about our

27:41

power as citizens and

27:43

what do you want to see more of from

27:46

us? You

27:48

know, the longest journey starts with the first step,

27:51

So how do we help educate the public

27:53

about What you can do is simply to protect yourself.

27:56

You know, if you're gonna spend a lot of time in

27:58

large social gathering together

28:01

indoors, you put yourself at

28:03

real risk for getting the virus. And

28:05

I can say, but I can't not do that, you

28:08

know, I look back on generations

28:10

before us and think about some of the wars

28:13

World War two and others where people sacrifice

28:16

for years in major ways,

28:18

putting their life on the line to get us somewhere.

28:20

We're not asking to do that. But if you can

28:22

just wait and minimize the risk

28:25

you have until we have vaccines,

28:28

that's going to be everything in terms

28:30

of preventing transmission. If

28:33

you can never forget about the kindness. You know, we're

28:35

asking so many people to

28:38

bubble themselves up so they don't put themselves

28:40

at risk, because if they did get infected,

28:42

they have a great likelihood of having

28:44

a very severe case. But

28:47

think how lonely that can be. Reach out

28:49

to these people, even if you can't

28:51

physically hug them, Go

28:54

to their house, stand outside their door, have

28:56

a conversation, spend time on the

28:58

phone with them, help them out

29:00

however you can. Maybe you're the one

29:02

that can go deliver some product

29:05

or something that they need. You know, our

29:07

democracy is critical, it is so

29:09

critical, and today

29:11

we know the poll workers are some of the

29:13

bravest people we have out there working. Go

29:16

help out with that. That's the kind of thing

29:18

If we do that, that's feeds our soul, that

29:20

doesn't let the virus defeat us. And

29:22

then finally, we have to

29:24

as a society address head on

29:27

racial inequality and disparities.

29:31

And let's use this as a

29:33

positive example to shine

29:35

light and a terrible thing to actually

29:37

make a difference. I'm an old man,

29:39

you know, I don't have a lot of years left in this business,

29:41

okay, But I want a world where

29:44

my kids and grandkids grow up where

29:47

the things that we have had to experience

29:49

now don't occur in the future, whether

29:51

they be pandemics or whether

29:53

they be some of the other social ills.

29:56

And so I think all of that is what

29:58

we need to be doing right now, and I ask

30:00

you to be a part of each one. Reduce

30:03

the risk of the transmission virus, reach

30:05

out to others who are hurting, and

30:07

I think now how we'll get actively

30:10

involved so that we can deal with the racial

30:12

disparities and move this to a higher

30:14

place in the world. As

30:17

you are a doctor, I will infer that as

30:19

a prescription and encourage us

30:21

all to take that medicine. That's very

30:23

sound. There's a question we like to ask

30:25

all of our guests, and it comes back to the title

30:27

of this show and this word citizen. We

30:31

interpret this word citizen less

30:33

about legal status or any kind of status,

30:36

to be honest, and more as a verb as

30:38

actions. If you are to interpret the

30:40

word citizen as a verb in that

30:42

way, what is your definition

30:44

of what it means to citizen? Well,

30:47

first of all, it's to open your heart. Two,

30:50

whatever the causes that we

30:52

need to address, the fact that you're even on

30:54

this webinar today by itself

30:57

is a very substantial commitment to

31:00

listening and understanding and thinking

31:02

about this issue. Second of all,

31:04

its action. You have to be

31:06

there with action. It's wonderful

31:09

to intellectualize and to, you know, basically,

31:11

take all this information in and you

31:13

know, and kind of form thoughts and feelings,

31:16

but act then, whether it's being

31:19

kind, whether it's you know, being safe,

31:22

whether it's helping to organize communities

31:25

around certain issues that will

31:27

bring all of us to a better place, particularly

31:29

when it comes to the issues of inequality.

31:32

So I think citizenship, in my mind

31:35

and citizens in general, is about

31:37

action. And none

31:39

of us are going to necessarily ever change the world,

31:41

but collectively we can do a lot. And

31:44

so I also say, don't ever think you

31:46

can't make a contribution in

31:48

our little group at sid Rap. You know, we're just a

31:50

small little center in the middle of nowhere in Minnesota,

31:53

and we're trying to make a difference and we're

31:55

not gonna let anybody tell us we can. And

31:57

I think that's what citizens have to feel. As

32:00

a citizen, feel like you can make a difference

32:02

and don't anybody tell you can, and

32:05

back it up not only with commitment, with action.

32:08

You knock that out of the park. Dr Austhen, that was

32:11

really I've been listen.

32:13

I've been listening to you, man, I've been listening to you.

32:15

But that was your words said it was,

32:18

but you know, but I think this is the collective feeling.

32:20

I mean, I think this is what's important here. We have a

32:22

collective feeling here that we all

32:24

can understand and resonate with. Let's

32:26

grow that. Let's grow that. Let's

32:28

take that out and plant it, just like we're

32:30

planting seeds, and let's grow it. And

32:33

let this pandemic not just be a

32:35

painful experience, but let

32:37

it be a reason why we can do these

32:39

things. And I believe in my heart of hearts that we can do

32:41

this. I do believe it. I'm

32:52

gonna grow this moment in the show

32:54

to encompass voices beyond mine. We

32:57

like to involve a live audience

32:59

before or the podcast goes out to those who

33:02

listen on demand, and we have a

33:04

live question from Priya.

33:07

Hi. Thank you so much, Dr asked Home for

33:09

your work and for being here with us

33:11

today. I love the kindness pandemic idea.

33:14

I am Pria Kumar. I'm from

33:16

Portland, Oregon. I am

33:18

a psychiatrist, so I wanted

33:20

to ask about kind of the mental health secondary

33:23

pandemic that we have been seeing. I'm

33:26

a psychiatrist, so I have seen the depression,

33:28

the anxiety, the

33:31

PTSD symptoms. I've seen depression

33:33

with people who are struggling

33:35

with the kind of chronic fatigue

33:38

that they have gotten from COVID

33:40

nineteen, and it's gotten

33:42

to the point, I think where even some people

33:44

have questioned lockdown measures

33:47

whether that's good or bad, given

33:50

how it's affecting our mental health,

33:53

which I think is misguided, and I think we

33:55

can work around that. But I

33:57

would love to kind of get yours

34:00

as people who are listening to this

34:02

podcast. We're probably all doing

34:04

what we need to do in terms of lessening

34:07

the risk of virus transmission, but

34:09

I'd love to hear your thoughts on taking

34:12

care of our mental health as well. Blowing

34:14

that pandemic. Well, thank you,

34:17

And I could not be a stronger

34:19

supporter of the sense that we have to

34:21

deal with both the virus itself

34:23

and the mental health aspects of it. That

34:26

is what's all about being human. Let

34:28

me just back up and say, you know, a lot of people

34:30

I think have a misconception there are

34:32

these lockdowns that are occurring, but

34:35

you know, we really have gotten away from

34:37

any of the kinds of you can't leave

34:39

your home or you can't do these things, and

34:42

what it is is the actual occurrence

34:44

of the pandemic that has us afraid. If

34:47

you're afraid to go into a public place, if you're

34:49

afraid to go to church, if you're

34:51

afraid to do a lot of things you don't, you

34:53

can't. And so this is where controlling

34:56

the virus transmission is really really

34:58

important. Now having

35:00

said that, there are things we need to do. For example,

35:03

like I think bars and restaurants have been a place

35:05

for major transmission. I've not been

35:07

to a bar restaurants since March. I missed

35:10

it immensely. But what I also

35:12

understand of the people's whose lives have been adversely

35:14

impacted, the owners of the restaurants and bars,

35:17

the people who worked there. I wrote

35:19

an up ed piece in The New York Times in August

35:21

two with Neil cash Carry, the president

35:24

of the Minneapolistetter Reserve Bank, in

35:26

which we made the strong argument that

35:29

to really get this virus better under

35:31

control and to reduce it where people were much

35:33

less afraid to go into public places, was

35:36

the fact that we needed to drive down transmission

35:38

that was going to require us to be distanced for

35:40

several weeks. And if we had done that

35:43

back then we would be in a very different place

35:45

today. And at the same time,

35:47

we need to take care of people. This is

35:50

where the part that gets missed. The

35:52

savings rate in the United States has gone from eight

35:54

percent too during the course

35:56

of this pandemic, absolutely unheard of.

35:59

We could borrow the money our government

36:01

could from ourselves and pay us back

36:03

ourselves with interest to

36:06

pay for all these people whose lives

36:08

have been impacted in such a negative

36:10

way. And I know today,

36:13

if you don't have enough money to

36:15

pay for the roof over your head or food on your

36:17

table, you've got kids you have to deal

36:19

with. You know, you're struggling.

36:22

That just adds to the mental health trauma.

36:25

So our whole plan was, if it

36:27

is a bar, restaurant or a business

36:29

like that that's adversely affected, pay

36:32

the people for what's happening, keep

36:34

them whole, keep our government's

36:36

whole, keep our colleges and university's

36:39

whole. And it's borrowing an investment

36:41

in ourselves. And if you look at the economic

36:43

models, we actually do much better

36:46

over the long run in recovering that money

36:48

back by bringing society back

36:50

up in a hopeful manner. So I

36:52

would just say this is part of the plan that

36:54

I talked about a compassionate,

36:57

kind, caring response to this actually

37:00

turns out to be the financially best

37:02

response to this. And that's what we've missed.

37:05

And so while we see them debating

37:07

in Washington, do you see about, you know,

37:09

getting relief back out to the public. What

37:12

a missed opportunity to help us through.

37:14

Imagine if you only your clients and

37:16

I are only making an assumption.

37:19

One of the challenges they have, besides the

37:21

loneliness, is the fear of

37:23

financial ruin and the fact that

37:25

they don't have money to pay for the food

37:28

on their table. Imagine if we could take

37:30

that off the table. And we should be able

37:32

to do that as a nation. And I want to

37:34

end by saying thank you. You know, I

37:36

had dedicated one of my podcasts to the

37:39

mental health support in our

37:41

communities as people like you that

37:43

are more critical now than ever. And

37:46

you know it was funny because you know, I made a cobbint

37:48

of this thing about the fact, you know,

37:50

thank god I had had my therapist the thirty

37:52

years. She's amazing, and I

37:54

had more men contact mus that you actually

37:56

said that in public, that you see a therapist. I

37:59

see one. Oh my god, I'm I'm embarrassed

38:01

let anybody know, and I'm saying saying

38:03

why we all need that help. You

38:05

know, we all need to be there. So all

38:08

the men I'm here who have seen

38:10

the therapist don't be afraid

38:12

to acknowledge it, and you know, really

38:14

make the case that this is a good

38:17

thing. This is mental health. Just like we

38:19

want to have our physical health improve, we want to improve

38:21

our mental health. So thank you very very much

38:23

for the question. And I hope that gives

38:25

you a sense of why I think you're right on the mark.

38:28

Thank you prea for that. If

38:30

you're up, Hi, Yes, I'm Eve

38:32

Blossom and I'm in San Francisco

38:34

and I focus on digital

38:37

health and startups and still

38:39

value. Yeah, I've been following your

38:41

weekly updates. Thank

38:44

goodness. It's refreshing to have someone

38:46

like you do weekly updates. And

38:48

I'm just I wanted to ask if you're

38:50

committed to doing it throughout

38:52

the whole pandemic longer, no

38:55

matter how long that will be. And

38:57

also I just wanted to mention how I love I'm

38:59

a big springste fan, so

39:01

I really loved how you brought into Springstel's

39:04

new music into one

39:06

of your Well,

39:08

thank you for your very very kind comedy. First

39:11

of all, I love music, okay, So I'm

39:13

committed to these, okay, and so

39:15

that's great. I think

39:18

that one of the reasons I can't let

39:20

this virus get me, you know, myself.

39:22

It's that old line, don't look back. They might be gaining

39:24

on you, you know kind of thing. I gotta do. These

39:26

podcasts gives me a purpose, you know. So,

39:29

so I'm going to keep doing this as

39:31

long as I possibly can, and

39:33

for as long as it's helpful to the public. And

39:36

I work with the most amazing team of

39:38

people at sid RAP who whope

39:40

produce this thing. They make it possible

39:42

for me to do it. They may be possible to be here. So

39:45

yeah, I'll keep doing it for as long as people

39:47

find it useful. And you know,

39:49

I want to be here to celebrate when we get

39:52

over this virus. I want to be at

39:54

that celebration. I'll invite you all to it.

39:56

Okay, Well, we'll get you all there.

39:58

We'll have one heck of it to I'm and it's

40:01

our beat the virus party. Okay,

40:03

We're gonna do it, So thank you, and we'll

40:06

keep We'll keep plugging away at it. Thank

40:09

you for that Eve, and I look forward to that party

40:11

already. Know what it looks like. It's that scene from the Matrix

40:13

when they're all underground and it's like a rave

40:16

and its way too close to each other. It's just like

40:18

so many shared droplet.

40:21

Can I tell a very brief story here. I

40:23

give you hope and the fact that my niece

40:26

who I'm very close to, her husband lost

40:28

their house in Santa the Santa Clara fire almost

40:31

seven weeks ago. It was tragic. They barely

40:33

got out. They had their dog, they couldn't

40:35

find their cat. They had to leave it. The

40:38

daughters, the three grandnieces were

40:40

traumatized. Beyond it. I can tell you make

40:43

a long story short. Two weeks ago

40:45

somebody thought they saw it up there. Last

40:47

week they actually captured alive trap

40:50

with food. How it survived for

40:52

six weeks after that severe fire

40:55

is incredible. And her name is Mama

40:57

Kitty, and mom and Kitty should give

40:59

us all hope that if a cat can

41:01

do that, survived that fire and

41:04

live for six weeks without food and water a

41:07

man, anything's possible. So I have

41:09

hope. Awesome Mama kitty

41:11

or we have one more live question came in under

41:14

the wire. This is a family

41:16

member of mine, my uncle. Uh

41:19

Danna Robinson. Okay,

41:21

I'm back in the gym now area,

41:24

Washington, d C. My name is Dana Robinson.

41:27

They've just allowed the gym's in the

41:29

hospitals to initiate social

41:32

distancing in the gym. I've

41:34

been waiting for that. I didn't think it was gonna

41:36

come until it

41:39

looks very, very different. You're used to see

41:41

in fifty people in the gym, Now you only see

41:43

ten. Do you think that's safe

41:45

or you think I should wait until

41:48

we get that vaccine. Well, first

41:50

of all, let me say that we do know

41:53

that you can get into our air transmission in

41:55

a relatively smaller room

41:57

setting, and so I would say,

42:00

you know, if you are at high risk of

42:02

having a very serious case

42:04

of COVID nineteam, I might still

42:06

take a pass for a while on this. But I think

42:09

the idea in the gym is a good thing. Physically,

42:11

you want to be active, and that's a very

42:13

good thing to be out and about. So what

42:15

I would do is add a little twist to that and

42:17

find out the time of the day that the least number of people

42:20

are there and then go then and

42:22

then that's your way of accommodating and

42:25

making it as safe for yourself as possible.

42:27

So but the big thing is you know

42:29

you're taking care of yourself, You're thinking

42:32

about it in the right way. This is the smart decisions.

42:35

They're gonna allow a lot of people to

42:37

avoid getting infected. So congratulations.

42:40

And some other time we tell I'd love to hear a lot

42:42

of stories about your relative here. Okay, but

42:44

we'll wait and say about that one. Okay, well,

42:47

say will definitely save that one. Thank

42:49

you again, I heard a lot of good

42:51

things from you. I'd summarize it as as

42:54

be safe, be kind, and be active

42:56

is one way to put it. Thank you, just thank

42:59

you for having me. Thank you for what you do well

43:01

staying together. Okay, and let's get through

43:03

this with a pandemic of kindness. And

43:05

again, thank you so much for having me and for

43:08

all what you're doing out there. Appreciate We

43:10

appreciate you too. Good luck and we're

43:12

we're rooting for you're rooting for us. All appreciate

43:14

you. Dr Mike Oster home from sid

43:16

rap in the great state of Minnesota.

43:24

That was something. I'm

43:26

not sure if I should call him Dr

43:28

oster Home or Dr Wokester

43:31

Home. Yeah, I did it. Yeah, I'm corny.

43:33

What are you gonna do about it? Nothing because

43:36

it's already recorded. So just accepted

43:39

Dr Michael Wokester Home host

43:43

privilege. Okay, settled down Bariton

43:45

day. The way that Dr

43:47

oster Holme weaved in our opportunity

43:50

and obligation to deal with racial

43:52

disparities and inequality, that

43:54

was impressive and honestly a bit

43:57

unexpected. Major thanks

43:59

to Dr Mike oster Home and

44:01

his team at sid RAP, the Center

44:03

for Infectious Disease Research and Policy

44:06

at the University of Minnesota.

44:08

Thanks for joining and reminding us

44:11

to be safe, be kind, and

44:13

be active. You can follow

44:16

Dr ulster Home on Twitter M

44:18

t oster Home O

44:20

S T E R H O l M, or

44:23

follow at sid RAP c

44:25

I D R A P on the

44:27

socials and visit the website

44:29

sid RAP dot you m in as

44:32

in University of Minnesota dot E D

44:34

you like we always

44:36

do. We're gonna post this episode of transcript,

44:38

show notes and more at how to citizen dot

44:41

com. I'm gonna ask a special

44:43

favor on this one because I think this

44:46

is a public health value

44:49

to everyone. Please share

44:51

this episode with everyone

44:53

you know. They don't have to dig the whole

44:55

series, but let them listen to

44:58

this one and listen to Dr Ulster

45:00

Home. He's been such a straight shooter throughout

45:02

this whole thing, and I think if more

45:04

people heard him and followed

45:06

what he said, more of us would make

45:09

it through this whole

45:12

Now time for some action on

45:14

the internal front. I want you to

45:17

subscribe to the Ulster Home Update

45:19

COVID nineteen Michael Ulster

45:21

Holmes podcast. You can find it wherever

45:23

podcasts are found, search

45:26

for it online. The U R role is a mess,

45:28

so I'm not gonna say it out loud, but

45:30

if you see the show notes on your podcast

45:33

app, you should just be able to click the

45:35

link there. I want you to think about

45:37

the worst and the best

45:39

for you in this pandemic, Like,

45:42

what's the worst thing you've experienced,

45:45

Maybe you lost a job, maybe you lost

45:47

a person. Make

45:49

a little space to grieve and

45:51

acknowledge that. And

45:54

on the flip side, what's the best

45:56

thing that's happened to you during

45:59

this pandemic? Have you had

46:01

more quality time with your friends?

46:03

Did you finally clean your garage? I

46:06

don't care how big or small the thing is.

46:09

Embrace it. Embrace the positives

46:11

and the negatives of this COVID

46:14

year. We are in without guilt, without

46:16

shame, and know that

46:18

you are not alone in that. I

46:21

want you to recommit to

46:23

suppressing this virus.

46:26

We can do this, but we

46:28

all need to show up to this.

46:32

We know it's hard, we're

46:34

tired, and we're angry, but

46:37

I want us to remember why we are making these

46:39

sacrifices. It's not to

46:42

satisfy a public health bureaucrat.

46:45

We make these sacrifices to save

46:48

lives. We make them

46:50

to keep our health care system from being

46:52

overrun, which we all need, whether

46:55

we have COVID or not. Keep

46:59

physical just and wear

47:01

masks, wash hands. Let's

47:05

dig deep and rediscover the spirit

47:07

of shared sacrifice that

47:09

has enabled us to rise to other

47:12

difficult moments in our past. I'm

47:15

not asking you to go overseas

47:18

to enlist in the armed services.

47:20

I'm not asking you to melt down all

47:22

your spare copper. I'm

47:24

asking you to work with each other, to

47:27

help each other and recommit

47:30

to that because I'm tired too. I'm

47:33

not sitting up here just like adhering to

47:35

everything easily. It is exhausting,

47:38

but we can do this. We must do this all

47:41

right. On the external action front, if

47:44

you can support a local COVID

47:47

relief fund, Dr

47:49

Osterholme talked about the increase savings rate.

47:52

Many of us are suffering extraordinarily

47:54

financially. Some of us are doing

47:57

much better or good enough and

48:00

can spare something. So I want you

48:02

to search in your search

48:04

engine of choice for donate COVID

48:06

relief fund and then the name of your

48:08

city. Find a way

48:11

to support someone who needs

48:13

it right now and make it easier

48:15

for them to help us

48:17

all stay safe. Reach

48:20

out to someone who's isolated. This

48:22

comes right from Dr Ulster home. There

48:25

are so many of us who've had to retreat from

48:27

company, from each other for our

48:29

health. Check in on those people,

48:32

give them a call, a video chat,

48:34

stop by safely distantly

48:37

to let them know that they're not in fact alone

48:40

because you're there. And finally,

48:43

be kind and spread

48:45

that pandemic of kindness

48:48

to counter the pandemic of fear,

48:50

the pandemic of COVID. Do

48:53

something nice and unexpected for

48:56

someone today. Anyone

48:59

small is okay. Just do

49:01

it, and then do

49:03

something else for someone else tomorrow

49:06

and repeat that and

49:09

tell us about it. Hit us

49:11

up, tell someone about to put it on the hashtag,

49:13

email us action how to citizen dot Com

49:17

Stretch beyond your comfort zone

49:20

that we're struggling through in

49:22

these unprecedented

49:24

times. We're

49:26

in a hard moment and

49:31

I acknowledge that. But

49:33

we're here so we

49:36

can still do and we must.

49:38

We must show up and invest in each

49:40

other, know our power, and

49:43

serve the many, not the few. Let's

49:46

do this for each

49:48

other. Thank you. As

49:52

always, we welcome your contributions,

49:55

your thoughts, comments at how to citizen

49:58

dot com. You can visit the website.

50:00

How does citizen dot com Find me online?

50:03

Wherever barrattone day? The user

50:05

name is found? That is me, Patreon,

50:08

Instagram, everywhere. I

50:10

got them all and you can text me two

50:13

to eight nine four four.

50:15

Put the words citizen in there so I know how

50:18

you found me. Congratulations.

50:21

We made it through

50:24

another election, and we are going to make it through

50:26

this pandemic if we

50:28

do it together. How

50:30

does Citizen with Barton Day as a production of

50:32

I Heart Radio Podcasts, Executive

50:35

produced by Miles Gray, Nick Stump,

50:38

Elizabeth Stewart and Barratton day Thurston.

50:40

Produced by Joel Smith, Edited

50:43

by Justin Smith. Powered

50:45

by you