0:07

Welcome pop stars today's episode

0:09

is the first in a series of interviews with

0:11

experienced pop in Photographers from

0:14

right here in little old new zealand today

0:17

I'm joined by Cerys who is an incredible

0:20

newborn and family photographer who

0:22

also runs monthly pop in portraits right

0:25

here in Wellington Welcome

0:32

to How To Pop, a business

0:34

podcast for photographers who want their

0:36

family portrait business to pop.

0:39

I'm Anna Little, founder and

0:41

creator of Pop-in Photos, and I

0:43

want to help you go from hustling

0:45

and struggling to busy and profitable

0:48

with a cute little idea I call

0:50

Pop-ins. Nevermind

0:59

the classic podcast dive in, today,

1:02

let's pop in. Cerys

1:06

is part of my brand, Little Annie, and

1:08

together we have created what we refer to

1:11

as the Little Annie Way.

1:13

The Little Annie Way is all about how

1:16

to build amazing relationships with customers

1:18

in just a few quick seconds. Relationships

1:21

that keep them coming back for more. Cerys has

1:24

a huge array of tips and tricks to share,

1:27

and I think you're going to love this conversation.

1:30

I wanted to bring Cerys in to talk with me

1:32

today because she has been absolutely

1:34

foundational in creating what we now

1:36

refer to as the Little Annie Way.

1:39

That's a term that Cerys coined herself. This

1:42

isn't just your run of the mill customer service

1:45

chat. The The Little Annie Way includes a

1:47

bunch of specific tactics and phrases

1:49

that we use to make our customers feel

1:52

really, really special. And that's

1:54

what keeps them coming back for more. So

1:56

it's a big topic. Let's get into it. Cerys.

1:59

Welcome to the how to pop podcast. Hi

2:01

everyone. I'm thrilled to have you here

2:04

today to talk to us about the little Annie way

2:06

and to give our audience of photographers around

2:08

the world an idea of how to go

2:10

about creating an addictive customer

2:13

service experience for their

2:15

own Pop-in brand. So

2:17

for starters, just to get us warmed

2:19

up a little bit, let's take a big step back

2:21

and talk about what a Pop-in

2:23

actually is. How would you describe

2:26

what we do at Little Annie? A

2:28

pop

2:29

in is a

2:31

quick, affordable, and as we

2:33

say, totally adorable way of capturing

2:36

your child on a

2:37

monthly basis. That is exactly

2:39

what a pop in is. For you and

2:41

your business as the owner of Sunshine Studios,

2:44

what do pop ins mean for you? Like,

2:46

how does your role as a pop in photographer

2:49

fit into your studio brand

2:51

and how does it all work together for you?

2:54

I guess like lots of photographers out there.

2:56

I am very time poor. I'm

2:58

a mom, as well as a photographer. And

3:01

having the privilege of

3:04

photographing Pop-ins is a way of

3:06

me putting myself in front of the

3:08

client and showing them what

3:10

I'm all about. This is how I interact,

3:13

this is who I am. And it's, It's better

3:15

than any kind of online marketing

3:17

I could ever think of. It's a way of

3:19

me connecting with clients, getting to

3:21

know people, getting to know the children.

3:24

It's all about connection for me. The

3:27

best marketing tool.

3:29

Totally. There's really no better way

3:31

to market your business. If you're. Standing

3:34

in front of a customer, you're seeing them

3:36

every month, you're watching their baby grow and

3:39

it's super special it sets

3:41

you up for family sessions and milestone

3:43

sessions, and they're booking their newborn

3:45

shoot with you and it all

3:48

fits Really nicely together.

3:49

They come back month after month and I

3:52

get to know the children. I know

3:54

them to the point where they come

3:56

in and I recognize, oh my goodness, your

3:59

baby, your baby is suddenly waving or clapping

4:01

and they've got a new skill. And I

4:04

am meeting these people and

4:06

then watching the children grow up and

4:09

the connections that I make with these

4:11

parents and the children and they come

4:13

back month after month and not just month after month.

4:15

So now come back year after year and we

4:17

have clients in Wellington. They're now

4:20

on their third child and still popping

4:22

monthly. So they're five years in. It's

4:25

such a privilege to watch these, these families

4:27

grow up. And I feel such a sense

4:29

of connection to my community

4:32

because. Of

4:34

course, the main goal is to, to

4:37

get them to book my mini milestones or

4:39

my bigger sessions, but it's about

4:42

more than that.

4:43

That is such an amazing summary

4:46

of everything that you do. And I think that

4:48

is just exactly why Pop-ins

4:50

and Wellington keep going from strength to strength.

4:53

You're holding your new baby

4:55

venturing out into the world. It's, it's

4:58

intimidating. You're kind

5:00

of seeking community at

5:02

that stage of life and be quite isolating

5:04

being at home with your newborn all the time. If

5:07

you can go to an experience like Pop-ins

5:10

and feel like you're really part of something,

5:13

that's so potent. That is really what

5:16

gets people hooked on Pop-ins. It's

5:18

all about what does the customer want and

5:20

understanding it from their perspective. I

5:23

feel like those first few months, it's

5:26

so hard just trying to leave the house.

5:28

When I had Max, that was seven years ago,

5:31

but it still feels raw that, that

5:33

energy it takes to get your baby dressed,

5:35

make sure you are timing everything right

5:37

between feeding. And napping and

5:40

making sure that you can get out the house

5:42

on time for your appointment. And then you get

5:44

to your appointment. The last thing you want

5:46

to feel is that you're just

5:49

being rushed to get your photo out

5:51

the door. And I try and remember

5:53

what those first few months were like

5:55

for me personally. And just to

5:57

see the mom and be like, Hey, great job.

6:00

You made it out the house. That's great. That's, that's incredible.

6:03

That's so hard to do. And recognizing

6:05

that, remembering that, remembering the struggle

6:07

and not just new moms, actually moms

6:10

when they come in with their toddlers and, you know,

6:12

their personality is growing and

6:14

suddenly there's new challenges and the

6:16

mom's like, gosh, this stage is so hard

6:19

and they're running off everywhere

6:21

and I can't get them to sit still and they don't

6:23

want to sit in the car. You

6:25

know, that's all good. Come in and we've got some toys,

6:27

uh, them to play with or we'll entertain

6:30

them with stickers or whatever it might

6:32

be whilst I'm waiting for that to fit

6:34

in and get them on that just

6:37

sometimes two minutes of breathing time.

6:40

I have this vivid memory

6:42

just listening to you talk about going

6:44

to a pop in with Cleo when she was,

6:47

Uh, she must've been about one and a

6:49

half. I just remember

6:52

her being so on the edge

6:54

of her nap window. We

6:57

were driving to Pop-ins. I was like passing

6:59

her crackers back. And I'm knowing that something's

7:01

going on to the freaking. Outfit

7:03

and I'm, this is just like so much

7:06

effort just to, just to even get there.

7:08

Every mom is turning out completely harried.

7:11

You've been through six lives already. It's

7:13

so important when you do turn up, the

7:15

welcome that you receive when you get to

7:17

pop ins is crucial.

7:20

The last thing that you would want is for someone to

7:22

be like, Oh, you've missed your time slot, sorry,

7:24

no photo today. And having

7:26

that empathy for the whole motherhood

7:28

journey or, or the You

7:30

know, even just the warning of and trying

7:32

to understand what they've been through just to

7:34

get there and really honoring that as

7:37

really made an effort to get there. Even though the

7:40

photo is sometimes so fast to actually

7:43

photograph the child, the sort of in and out of the chair. And

7:45

then, They're done and they're like, oh

7:47

my God. All that preparation just for, for

7:50

that. Yeah.

7:52

it's so funny because like when I'm training

7:54

people, one thing that I, I say

7:56

to them, and they sound so counterintuitive,

7:59

I, I kind of say like, the experience

8:02

matters more than the photo. If

8:05

someone can come in and have a great

8:07

experience, they attach that experience

8:09

to the image they're gonna receive. But

8:11

if they come in and they have a crap experience,

8:14

they, and you could send them the

8:17

best, smiliest eye

8:19

contact photo that, you know, the picture

8:21

perfect image, and

8:23

they'd be like, it's rubbish because they're,

8:25

they're attaching their, their

8:27

rubbish experience with the

8:30

photo, the experience matters the most.

8:32

Just a million times

8:34

more photos are quite unique

8:37

in that when you look at a photo it's connected

8:39

to a memory. And I think we as photographers

8:41

just have to be so aware of that

8:44

I just want all the moms to know when they come

8:46

in that we've got you. I

8:48

remember seeing you and. Other

8:50

girls from our team that you've trained saying,

8:53

saying, verbalizing, saying to the mom,

8:55

Oh my God, it's amazing that you got here and look

8:57

at you, you're wearing your makeup and everything. Go girl.

8:59

Like that is amazing. As a mother,

9:02

no one tells you you're doing a great job. Pretty

9:04

much everywhere in the world on the social

9:06

medias, from your bloody mother in law,

9:08

from whoever everyone saying what

9:10

you're doing wrong. If

9:13

you come to Pop-ins and someone says, Chick

9:16

your, your kid looks amazing. You're doing a great

9:18

job. That is potent stuff.

9:20

Like I will come back every

9:23

time to hear that, hear those words.

9:26

Yeah. Yeah. But, but I mean,

9:28

I mean it though. That's, that's the thing

9:30

as well. As someone who just never

9:32

has that crap together, I

9:35

am super impressed when moms turn

9:37

up and their kids are dressed and everyone's looking

9:39

amazing. And when they come in for a family pop

9:42

in and they're all coordinated, the mom looks fabulous.

9:44

So I'm like, yeah, go you, look at you,

9:46

you, you've got this. You're amazing.

9:49

Leave the rest up to me. I've got

9:51

you. You say, when you've been waiting in

9:53

the car with Cleo and you're passing her the cracker

9:55

and you're making sure that she's happy and you're trying

9:57

not to lose your shit and you've, you've got

10:00

the right outfit. You know, you've, you've spent

10:02

time thinking about what you're going to put her in and

10:04

as if you've watched it and you've made sure it's ready

10:06

for the day of your shoot. You've gone

10:09

through so much time,

10:11

energy preparation, and

10:14

you've, you've made it to the studio.

10:17

So it's almost like you're passing the

10:19

baton over to us.

10:22

Oh, I don't want to just keep saying mums Definitely

10:25

have, you know, parents that come in,

10:27

moms, dads, it does feel like a privilege

10:30

to be in this position.

10:32

I know you as a person have very high

10:34

empathy, so it's not a struggle for you

10:37

to put yourself in our customers

10:39

shoes and sort of really understand

10:41

that whole journey. You've walked that mile as well.

10:44

Some of our hosts or

10:46

some of our team members in Wellington, They

10:49

haven't got children of their own. Maybe they

10:51

haven't walked in those shoes. Do you find

10:53

it difficult to teach empathy

10:56

basically, or teach the understanding of

10:58

everything that goes into it? a

11:01

mum or a parent to actually get to the pop

11:03

and I think it's quite easy for us to think,

11:05

well, it's, you know, it's a 20

11:07

photo. It's five seconds

11:09

here, five seconds in and out, but when

11:11

you have that attitude, like that just really

11:14

undermines your business because you're not understanding

11:17

that from the mom's perspective. She's

11:19

been thinking about that for the last month,

11:21

probably, you know,

11:24

when I get back to that pop in chair. And

11:27

how do you find actually sharing

11:29

that sort of skill or that understanding

11:32

with other members of our team

11:34

who might be training to come up into this little

11:36

Annie Way?

11:38

We do have some photographers on the

11:40

team that don't have children,

11:42

but I feel like everyone

11:45

struggles with something and I

11:47

think just connecting with people on a human

11:49

level, it's not just about explaining

11:52

it, it's about seeing it and

11:54

it doesn't take long if you're looking,

11:57

if you're looking at your client, take a step

11:59

back, look at your client as they come

12:01

through the door. Read their

12:03

body language. How would you interpret

12:05

that? Do they look flustered? Do they look actually

12:08

quite down? Ask them,

12:10

ask the client, how are you doing today?

12:13

So actually looking at them and

12:15

saying, I see you. It's

12:17

amazing

12:18

how many moms just come in and are like,

12:21

Would you mind just holding the baby just for a minute? I just

12:23

really need to go to the toilet. It's like, yes,

12:26

I finally get to cuddle one. This is good. But

12:30

you know, they need that. They need

12:32

a little bit of love. And I think

12:34

what's really unique about The Little Annie

12:36

Way is. We say those

12:39

things, we say it out loud, you know, don't just

12:41

think, oh, she looks a little bit sad today.

12:43

Say, you seem a little

12:46

bit off, is everything okay?

12:48

The difference between Little

12:50

Annie, Pop-ins, and

12:53

every other business that I can

12:55

think of. Think of is we see

12:57

our clients every

13:00

few weeks, so we can tell

13:02

if you are actually looking at your

13:04

client, you can tell when

13:07

something is off. And because

13:09

we have these customers that

13:11

come back month after month, The

13:13

month or even year after year

13:15

after year, we build connections

13:18

and community and a safe space

13:21

for them to go. Now, I've had a really crap

13:23

morning and I said to my mom,

13:25

Hey, is everything okay? Can I help

13:27

hold your bag, grab your bag, whatever it was?

13:29

Cause. She's looking for something and

13:32

she said, I just got engaged and I

13:34

can't find my ring. And I'm like, Oh my gosh,

13:37

let me give you a cuddle because congratulations

13:40

and don't worry. We'll find the ring. I've

13:42

been privy to witnessing some

13:46

amazing milestones. I

13:47

can't. Yeah. You know, this moment where someone.

13:51

I'm just blurted out I'm pregnant

13:53

and I'm having twins and I was

13:56

like, yes,

13:58

I haven't told anyone else,

14:01

but my

14:04

favorite thing is a mom had emailed

14:06

in and she's like, Hey, I'm pregnant. And I

14:08

want to announce it at my mother's day pop in,

14:11

you know, we, we had this big plan and

14:14

being a part of. Of these

14:16

journeys and these huge

14:18

things in people's lives that I,

14:21

I, I get to document that and I get to

14:23

be a part of it. It's, it's awesome.

14:26

It's because we've allowed the clients space.

14:37

We just got cut off by Zoom and we're

14:39

just going to come back to this conversation. Before

14:42

we go back to what we've been talking about with

14:44

all of the The Little Annie

14:46

Way, and how we treat our customers and how

14:48

important it is to empathize with their

14:50

whole journey, getting to that pop in,

14:53

I want to ask you

14:55

what it is that you do to turn

14:58

your pop in clients into Sunshine

15:00

Studio clients? Because I know for our international

15:03

audience, what is it that you

15:05

do at Pop-ins that turns those

15:07

clients into. full priced

15:09

clients I

15:12

feel like you're going to expect some

15:14

kind of magic answer from

15:16

me, but I, I actually do

15:18

nothing. And it's

15:21

funny because I'm in a community

15:23

of other photographers

15:25

that don't do pop ins and they

15:28

say, So what are you

15:30

doing? How, how do you get 'em to book your

15:32

full price session? It's, I, I

15:34

don't do anything other than, I

15:37

don't, I'm not doing anything special.

15:39

I don't think I'm doing anything special.

15:41

They just, they just book.

15:43

It's So, you are not, you are not like

15:46

putting flyer into their hands or sort of

15:48

putting a hard sell on them at Pop-ins or doing

15:50

anything like that? No.

15:52

No. So I don't ever want people

15:55

to feel like I am selling

15:57

them something. I guess they

16:00

know I am also a full

16:02

time photographer and I offer these

16:04

services and they come to the studio

16:06

and they see the artwork on the wall and

16:08

I'm not doing anything other than

16:11

being myself. And

16:14

when they're ready to

16:16

book something else, which.

16:20

You know, and lots of parents want to book birthday shoots.

16:22

I'm at the forefront of their mind,

16:24

I guess.

16:26

I really feel like it's all it takes, you

16:29

know, like just being kind to people. It's

16:31

all it takes and

16:34

then I come and have

16:36

you be kind to them again. Um,

16:38

yeah, yeah, I think it's so potent. I think

16:40

that whole sort of like not wanting

16:43

to be sold to as again, empathizing

16:45

with what your customer feels. And that is

16:47

almost more potent at Pop-ins

16:49

because. When you book something cheap like this,

16:52

especially from a photographer, I think you're

16:55

almost expecting to be sold to

16:57

you're expecting that maybe it's, there's

16:59

some catch along the way somewhere. And then

17:02

you get your photo taken. It's

17:04

great. And then you get your photo back and

17:07

there's no, like, there's no catch. It's

17:10

even more impactful, you know, that

17:12

then the customer's like, wow. And

17:15

they can trust you.

17:16

You make a really good point. I haven't really thought

17:18

about it from that point of view.

17:20

Yeah, that makes so much sense. You've

17:23

just made it so clear to me. I've

17:25

never thought about it from that point of

17:27

view. Right.

17:28

So Cerys, I'm guessing that our audience is kind

17:30

of listening to this conversation and

17:33

thinking, this sounds

17:35

like crazy. I don't know how I'm going

17:37

to do this. Like surely they're not having

17:39

big, deep and meaningful conversations

17:42

with hundreds of customers. During the

17:44

day while taking these photos so

17:46

fast, and this is all like one minute a person,

17:48

like, how do we actually do this? So

17:51

I was thinking you and I could sort of walk through

17:53

a pop in and act

17:56

out what it usually kind of looks like when

17:58

a mom comes in pop in. So for

18:01

this, hopefully you're up for this. You

18:03

be you. Yeah. And

18:06

I'll be a mom. I've got, I'm qualified

18:09

because I have my own 11 month old baby

18:11

who is, Uh, in the house right

18:13

now. Um, I

18:17

know, that's right. Coming into Pop-ins.

18:20

I've just got here. Oh my God. I've been driving Here I come.

18:22

I'm in the door.

18:23

First of all, I see you frantically coming

18:25

towards the door. And the first thing I do

18:27

is open the door. You've made

18:29

it in time. You can breathe. I'll

18:32

get, do you want me to hold on to Marnie oh my God.

18:34

Thank you. And then one thing I

18:36

tell like my photographer is. Every

18:38

second counts, they just,

18:40

opening the door, oh my gosh, come on in, come on

18:42

in, don't worry,

18:43

we've got this, you've made it, you've made it. Open the door, like, how

18:45

hard is that to do? Like, open the door. Yeah,

18:48

you've got your arms full. You've

18:50

got a toddler, a baby, a

18:51

nappy bag. And then

18:53

I'll go, it's Marnie, isn't it?

18:55

And you'd go, oh my God, yes. Do

18:58

you remember that? I'm so

18:59

you're so good at remembering names, Cerys. I'm sure

19:02

people say it like 20 times a day.

19:04

Yeah, but also sometimes it

19:06

is an educated guess because we've

19:08

got this amazing app

19:11

that I can go, you know what, there's three

19:13

people left to check in and

19:16

one of them is a client that's got two

19:18

kids booked in. So two

19:20

of those bookings and you've turned up with two kids

19:22

that look about the right age and

19:24

I'll go, Hey, it's Marnie

19:26

and Cleo, right? And you'd go,

19:29

wait, you remember me? And

19:31

immediately you feel special. I remembered

19:33

your kids names. Yes. Um,

19:35

also just, I would be getting down

19:38

and go, hey, Cleo, come on in. Let's

19:40

have some fun. And I'd be talking to Cleo,

19:42

not just to you. Uh,

19:44

I, I feel like at the beginning, we kind

19:46

of talked a lot about connections and

19:49

connecting with moms, but it's

19:51

also, For me, like I

19:54

am a big kid and I want to

19:56

play with the kids and interact with them

19:58

and make this a fun, safe

20:00

place for the kids. So using

20:03

their name is always really important

20:05

to me. So you come in and

20:07

this is like all in the space of 10

20:09

seconds, so you know, Pop-ins

20:11

might only be two minutes, but in that time

20:13

I've opened the door, I've greeted you,

20:16

I've used your kids names, I've reassured

20:18

you, I've ticked you off. you know,

20:20

whilst you come in and get settled for a second.

20:24

Then I, I take literally

20:26

one second to just look at

20:28

the mom and ask, Hey, how are you doing?

20:32

And I probably just say, Oh, fine.

20:34

Yep. Good. Thank you. Yeah. In

20:37

the morning, but yes, I'm good.

20:39

How are you? And I'll

20:41

go, Oh yeah. You know, okay. And then

20:43

I'll just, Just that natural

20:45

conversation, depending on what that response is.

20:47

Yeah, I've had a morning and I'll go,

20:49

Oh, I feel you. My,

20:51

uh, I can remember when my four year old just,

20:53

just, I mean, he's still like that, my

20:55

four year olds, you know, Oh, I say four. He's

20:58

not four anymore. He's five. No, you

21:00

know, I would just say,

21:02

Even just saying that he's not four, he's five. And then

21:04

I'll probably say, Oh my

21:06

God, I can't believe that he's at school

21:08

already. I can't believe Cleo's off to school

21:10

in a few months. It's like. And then I would go,

21:13

no,

21:13

wait, Cleo's off to school in a few months.

21:16

Yeah. It's so easy to sort of like take

21:18

this conversation, you know, take, if you're listening to your client

21:21

and understanding sort of like these different milestones

21:23

as well, you know, birthdays

21:25

are a big deal. Going to

21:27

school is a huge deal. Starting to walk,

21:29

starting to clap. Oh my gosh, he's got a tooth.

21:32

Like his hair's getting really long. Like it doesn't

21:34

take much to sort of notice something

21:36

or have even a few of those things up

21:38

your sleeve. In the olden days

21:41

when I used to be shooting. I remember

21:43

every person who came in, we

21:45

didn't have the check in system at that time, so I didn't

21:47

always know their name. It was always like,

21:50

Hi, buddy, oh my gosh, it's so

21:52

great to see you again. I don't know

21:54

their name. Yeah. Um, and

21:56

you know, your hair is getting so long or

21:58

he's getting so big. You can say

22:00

that to anybody and it feels like, yeah,

22:02

other that you remember them, you recognize them. Sometimes

22:05

you do. And Sometimes you maybe don't,

22:07

but that starts the conversation. It gets

22:09

them feeling like they're seen that, they're knowing

22:12

that at some place where they're a

22:14

regular and yeah, and

22:16

then the conversation can just evolve. And

22:18

I

22:19

feel like as well, the girls in our team that

22:21

don't have kids, they definitely use

22:23

like those tactics, but also because

22:26

after three months, I

22:28

can see the girls. Already

22:31

recognizing the children, they come in and they're like,

22:33

Oh, whoa, look, Oh, Hunter. Oh my goodness.

22:36

Hunter's walking. I just,

22:38

I swear they, I just saw him and he was

22:40

just learning to sit up or, you know, they

22:43

take note, they are paying attention.

22:45

And I guess that's what it's all about, isn't it? It's just paying

22:48

attention. Yeah. You can

22:50

notice that and then keep it internal.

22:52

I think what's really important is verbalizing

22:55

that and making the customer realize that

22:57

you. Uh, watching that you, uh,

22:59

invested in their child as well. It

23:02

is, it is a really special, unique window

23:04

into. A baby's life

23:06

when you're literally seeing them every month, we really

23:08

are seeing their milestones as

23:11

they evolve and capturing those. It's

23:14

really special. If we only

23:16

have an event, say of 20 people,

23:19

it doesn't take much to just have a look at those names

23:22

of who's coming in today and clicking

23:24

through their account. Have they been before? What

23:26

do they look like? When did they last pop?

23:28

It's like doing your research

23:31

and just refreshing your memory. Oh gosh,

23:34

yeah, I remember this kid. Oh, that kid last time was,

23:36

was having a hard day. There's still things

23:38

like that that you can do because you've got access to

23:40

all this information that's just right there

23:42

in front of you that I guess it's like a cheat

23:45

sheet. If you are looking for connection

23:47

with your clients, there's all

23:49

their past photos or That

23:51

information is there for you to make

23:54

that connection. Like you just said to me that I've

23:56

got an 11 month old on my lap and

23:58

my instinct just go, Holy

24:00

moly, Marnie's 11 months. It's like, Oh

24:03

my gosh, she's almost one. That's how

24:05

fast that goes. You know, that, that old saying

24:08

of the days are long, but the years are short.

24:10

I feel that when I see my

24:12

clients come in and I see

24:14

them, you know, Once a month, sometimes

24:16

more than once a month, depending

24:19

on how many specials we've got going on. I,

24:22

I see that growth and

24:24

I, I might, whoa, oh,

24:26

oh my gosh, they've grown so much or like

24:29

Marnie's almost one, like, wow,

24:32

where did that time go? What

24:34

a bloody privilege that is.

24:36

I get to witness. These

24:39

first experiences

24:40

with you and I think it's so amazing

24:42

to know, like now eight years in,

24:44

we've got these clients who've been coming

24:47

for literally years. And

24:50

they're coming with their second and third, maybe even

24:52

fourth baby now. And it's so,

24:54

it's just fascinating sort of thinking

24:56

back, you know, if they were there with their first newborn,

24:58

first time mom, like what a journey.

25:02

And we, we were there for that. We remember,

25:04

you know, like how

25:06

it was, you've seen that sort of whole

25:08

evolution of motherhood. Like it's,

25:11

it's amazing. I love your,

25:13

um, thank you very much for your plugging. My

25:15

little website has a

25:17

lot of tools that help us fit around this The

25:19

Little Annie Way, because my service can never be replaced

25:22

by an application, obviously, but you're talking

25:24

about how we've got information in

25:26

there about the child's name,

25:29

their age, and that gives us a bit of a

25:31

headstart when they're checking in, we can see who's coming

25:33

in for the day. Is there anything else?

25:36

That you could speak to around,

25:39

um, out at popinphotos. com and

25:41

see how you use that to

25:43

sort of like make your pop ins efficient

25:45

and keep things running on the day.

25:47

So I, when I started with you,

25:50

we were still using, um,

25:52

spreadsheets. Oh man, I remember

25:54

talking about the app and the development stages

25:56

of it. And I was so bloody excited

25:58

just for a million

26:00

different reasons. I mean, my, my first.

26:03

thing that I was personally looking

26:05

forward to was the

26:08

upload process of uploading images,

26:10

but actually once we got the app, holy

26:13

moly, it makes your whole

26:16

life easier. My

26:18

favorite thing at the moment is. We

26:21

have a little symbol, if they are a

26:24

first time customer, that's

26:26

so bloody important.

26:28

You've got someone that comes in, they've never

26:30

been to the studio before, they've never met you before.

26:33

This is our first time coming in and such a good

26:35

opportunity to have that identified.

26:37

So then you can straight

26:39

away start getting to

26:42

know your client. Hey

26:44

Marnie, how are you

26:46

doing? My name's Cerys.

26:49

Tell me more, like, what does the conversation

26:51

look like when it's a new customer for

26:53

the first time coming into their pop ins? How

26:55

does that conversation look different to someone

26:57

who's maybe come three or four or twelve times

27:00

before?

27:02

It's funny because in Wellington, I can't be

27:04

like, Oh, Cerys is, Cerys, I'll look after

27:06

you. She's been here, yeah, she's been here ages

27:08

and she's photographed all my children

27:11

and, and instantly the mums feel like

27:13

comfortable talking to each other and I'll

27:16

be maybe talking to the child. And if they're

27:18

clinging on to mum's leg, I'll, I'll,

27:20

I'll talk to mum a little bit more. Make

27:23

this feel like a safe place

27:27

for the child as well as the parent.

27:29

And you raised such a good point. The conversation

27:33

isn't entirely on

27:35

the photographer or the person on the desk either.

27:37

We've got other mums. Or dad's

27:39

in the room sitting and waiting for their turn.

27:42

Potentially. You can foster those

27:44

conversations with them as well. You know, if

27:46

someone chips in and says, Cerys is amazing.

27:48

You're, you're in the same hands. Let that mom

27:50

and that mom talk to each other and build

27:52

or like, you know, like that, that whole

27:54

thing about community that you're talking about. It's

27:56

just so potent. It's, it's

27:58

exactly what keeps our customers coming back

28:00

again and again.

28:02

You know, recently this kind of goes off subject

28:05

slightly, but recently, um,

28:07

we had two moms in the room

28:09

and all the children were wearing Mickey

28:12

Mouse gear and Disney gear. And

28:14

one mom said, we're going on

28:16

the Disney cruise. And the other mom went, we

28:19

are too. And I kind of sat

28:21

there and let that conversation flow. And

28:23

they're like, Oh yeah, I'm staying in this room. I'm staying

28:25

in this room. And then they. I

28:27

found out later on the their next

28:29

pop-in, they met up, the kiss hung

28:31

out and Oh my gosh, it's

28:35

so cool. And they met at a pop-in.

28:37

Yeah, they're making

28:37

friends. I love that. It's so

28:40

hard to make a friend as an adult, and if you

28:42

have an opportunity, there are a few minutes

28:44

there where you can connect with somebody and whether

28:46

that's with a or another mom in the room.

28:49

Yeah, I love that about, yeah.

28:51

Yeah. It's just that real sense

28:53

of community that

28:55

I. I just, I just love

28:58

it. I always kind of say, I

29:00

guess in a jokey way, but I mean

29:02

it. I always say, Oh, welcome to

29:04

Pop-ins. It's a bit addictive. And

29:07

I always hear always, you

29:09

know, another parent in the room guy. It

29:11

totally is. We'll probably see you next month.

29:14

And a parent saying that,

29:15

not me. Those two moms sitting there

29:17

having this like meeting, you've also

29:19

got another mom sitting there who might

29:21

be here for the first time with

29:23

her new baby. Even just

29:26

sort of being witness to that,

29:28

like, that little friendship connection

29:31

thing happening and feeling

29:33

like you're a little bit part of it, or maybe

29:35

at some point when you come to Pop-ins you might be

29:37

able to meet a friend as well. I

29:39

love that. And I think moms really

29:41

love that as well. Just turning

29:43

the conversation, uh, around a

29:46

little bit to thinking about what happens

29:48

when we're coming in. We've got a client

29:50

coming in who's they've clearly

29:52

carried in a storm cloud with them.

29:54

I've had a day and a half, maybe they're struggling

29:56

with something bigger. You know,

29:59

that they're sort of probably a bit of

30:01

a prickly mom and you'll, you'll maybe

30:03

sitting yourself up for. Uh,

30:05

bad experience here and the mom's

30:07

not going to be happy with their photo. Cause she's coming with

30:09

all of the stuff in her head. I

30:13

think one of the really important things that

30:15

we do as part of the little any way is

30:17

like land on pretty thick with the compliments.

30:20

Um, so tell me more about that. Like

30:22

talk me through some of the compliments

30:24

that you'd like to give moms, especially moms who

30:27

look like they're really having a day

30:29

and a half. Uh,

30:31

you know, it's really hard not to picture

30:34

a particular client in this

30:36

scenario. We had this client, she

30:38

always carried on a storm cloud and

30:40

she carried on popping and then I

30:42

felt like I stopped

30:45

thinking about trying to get the perfect photo.

30:47

It was that moment of stopping and saying to

30:49

her, Hey, are you

30:51

okay? And she just looked

30:53

at me. And she

30:55

broke down crying and she

30:57

was like, no, nothing's

30:59

okay. And, you know, basically

31:03

just told me a

31:05

lot of personal stuff. I suddenly,

31:08

I was like, Oh my goodness, there's

31:11

no way. All make sense. We're

31:13

all carrying some bank, you

31:15

know, probably fighting something.

31:18

And I was,

31:20

it was that moment for me where I went

31:23

like, she's not, she's not mad at me. She's

31:25

having a bad day.

31:26

I think it's so easy for us to sort of think

31:29

it's such a drag, you know, every time she comes in, she

31:31

sort of drags the mood down. She's always complaining

31:33

and it's such a pain. I just don't

31:36

even want to deal with this customer anymore. If

31:38

you, if you look beyond the surface and I think.

31:41

99% of the time

31:43

we've got customers who are dealing

31:46

with something more, you know, maybe they're under

31:48

a, a proper postpartum

31:50

depression cloud, or they're having

31:53

trouble in their marriages, or there's something, there's

31:55

always something under the surface, you know, like

31:57

you can't be that annoyed about a a

31:59

photo or, you know, like ly

32:02

something else, and you don't always

32:04

have to call that out. But being aware of

32:06

that and not taking it on as like a

32:08

personal attack. What's really

32:11

special about you and, and

32:13

the other members of our team, it's, it's been able

32:15

to look beyond that surface sort

32:17

of like a little bit grumbly

32:19

grumpy and see that there's

32:21

something else going on there and then seeing

32:24

what we can do about that. And I

32:26

mean, we're not, we're not out there giving,

32:28

you know, therapy or anything like that.

32:31

Being kind. Offering a

32:33

compliment, not taking on

32:36

the energy and instead

32:38

just giving it light and that love

32:40

and that kindness. I think as well,

32:42

sometimes when people come in, as

32:44

a mom, you're holding space in your head

32:46

for about 10 tasks and then you come

32:48

in and then it's, Oh my gosh, look at you, you

32:51

look gorgeous. And how do you always put

32:53

that together? And you know,

32:55

just that compliment, compliment, compliment, and

32:58

you're doing a great job. And

33:00

I feel like as a mom, we

33:02

don't hear that enough. It's

33:04

so

33:05

powerful because, you know, someone says something

33:07

like that. When you're in a vulnerable

33:09

place, those words don't ring in your

33:12

head for the rest of the day, right? She said,

33:14

I'm doing a good job. If you're really

33:16

doubting that within yourself, that

33:19

has an impact. That's not nothing. Yeah.

33:22

Especially these days with social media. The

33:25

mums are wanting that photo

33:27

that really looks perfect

33:29

too, you know, you kind of want to be able to, at

33:32

least if you're not feeling great, project

33:34

that, that at least it's important

33:37

to see that your child looks happy. And

33:39

sometimes it's hard to get photos out of

33:41

every child, especially at Pop-ins, but it's sort

33:43

of quick in and out and things, but

33:46

for the mum, it's, it's really key.

33:49

We come in with a lot of worries where it's, Oh

33:52

my God, this. My baby is just gonna

33:54

scream her head off and that's gonna be more

33:56

visual proof that I'm hopeless

33:58

at this.

34:00

But also they're like reassuring the parents

34:03

yet when those, when those kids come in and

34:06

okay. Yeah. Maybe they have been crying and they don't want

34:08

to let go of mom and mom's feeling like all

34:10

that pressure. Just

34:12

being like, Hey, come on over and

34:15

being kind and patient. Oh

34:17

gosh, that's like worth a million. That's.

34:20

You know, worth a million dollars to me if someone can just

34:22

give me kindness and patience

34:24

when I'm feeling at the end of

34:26

my rope, I've just, I've put so

34:29

much energy into getting here today.

34:31

I know you just want

34:32

someone else. You just, as

34:34

a parent, you're like, please help

34:36

me. And yeah, okay. That might just

34:39

be me as the photographer going,

34:41

Hey mom, come and sit down next to me. So,

34:44

you know, your baby's at my height. So

34:46

I can talk to them and get to know

34:48

them and make them feel comfortable.

34:50

And then the mom's like, holy

34:52

cow, how did you do that? And turning

34:55

the kid around to

34:57

being a complete nope

34:59

to getting in the chair.

35:01

Taking control of the shoot, really

35:04

operating with authority in

35:07

there and showing the customer that you. You've

35:09

got this, like you fully understand what

35:12

your role is. You know what you're doing. You're going to

35:14

absolutely smash this. Like, you know, that you can

35:16

take any baby and butter them up and you can

35:18

put them into a tube and you've got the tricks

35:20

up your sleeve to like, get a smile out

35:22

of them really quick. And

35:24

if they're not smiling. That's okay.

35:27

And we make that feel fine too. A

35:30

lot of times the mom's coming in with this real

35:32

expectation, quite heavy expectation

35:34

that, that, you know, they want a smile out

35:36

of their child. It's even

35:38

more than that. Like they want the smile that they

35:40

get. And sometimes we

35:42

have, I doubt that it's so smiley and the mom's

35:44

like, that doesn't really look like the smile that I was

35:47

hoping for. I, that's where it comes into

35:50

it where the whole experience is.

35:52

It's more valuable than the photo, you know, coming into

35:54

a shoot where they're feeling like you potentially

35:57

don't know what you're doing, or you're having a hard time getting

35:59

the smile out of that child. And that feels like,

36:01

and you're really working at

36:03

it and it's not happening and you don't reassure

36:05

them. Then they get a photo back. It might

36:08

be smiling. It might be cute, but you're kind of looking at

36:10

it way more skeptically than

36:12

you would if you're going through this process where the photographer

36:15

is taking control. They're like making

36:17

that. That tickler work for them,

36:20

they're getting the noise out, the child is

36:22

eating it up or even if they're not,

36:24

they're just sort of like least looking engaged.

36:26

The photographer's getting a photo and they're saying, Oh,

36:29

that looks so cute. He's not smiling, but

36:31

it doesn't really matter. Look how gorgeous he is in

36:33

those big blue eyes and you know, everything

36:35

else, get that photo back. You're

36:37

like, Oh, look at his big blue eyes. It's,

36:39

you have really a lot of power at that shoot where

36:42

to get into people's heads with they

36:44

want to be seeing when they, when they're looking at

36:46

that photo.

36:48

Oh, yeah. Totally. One thing I

36:51

say a lot is I've got the cutest

36:53

shot in there. I've

36:55

got the cutest shot intheret. And

36:58

it would be like so easy to give

37:00

up and be like, oh gosh, now this kid's just

37:02

going to nope out today. What's,

37:04

what's the point in even trying? This kid is not having

37:06

a bar of it. And if you reflect

37:09

that energy back, you know, the kids

37:11

comes in. And nopes out and

37:13

you just mirror that energy. I'm

37:16

going to know part two. Then the parents

37:18

just give me like, I have made so

37:21

much effort to get here today.

37:23

And you can't even put in a bit of effort

37:26

to, you know, try and get my child to

37:28

sit in the chair. If you are pulling out.

37:30

All the tricks and all the stops to

37:33

connect to that child, like,

37:35

Oh, Hey, Cleo, it's like, what have

37:37

I got? And distracting them

37:39

using the distraction technique where you're maybe

37:41

getting in the balls or whatever. Um,

37:44

and, and just trying to connect to that child

37:47

and making the effort, which

37:50

by the way, only usually takes about, I

37:52

would say 20 seconds with

37:55

them, with them in the safety of their mom's

37:57

arm at your eye level

37:59

whilst you're sat. Down on the floor,

38:02

connecting with your, with your client,

38:04

connecting with mom, connecting with the baby.

38:07

It literally takes 20 seconds and

38:10

20 seconds to the mom in

38:12

that moment will feel

38:15

like you've just spent an hour trying

38:18

to connect with the child. You are putting in effort

38:21

and then getting the child into the chair and

38:23

trying to turn that note around.

38:27

Oh, I mean, it makes the

38:29

world of a different, you're giving

38:32

them an opportunity

38:35

for this to succeed.

38:37

Yeah. And I love about watching

38:39

you shoot when you have a note like that,

38:41

when a kid is just like not having a bar of

38:43

it and then you turn it around

38:45

and it looks like a freaking miracle,

38:47

but you also a mom into it at

38:50

the end of that, like, yes, we did it. Like

38:52

we got, we got it, you know, like

38:54

that process. So it's not

38:56

like. It's not like, Oh God, I'm

38:59

shit at parenting, but Cerys. Uh, she

39:01

should be the mother of this child because clearly she has

39:03

tricks that I do not have. You're

39:05

kind of like, we did it, you know,

39:07

like this. Yeah. Like

39:10

high five.

39:10

Yeah. High five. All the time.

39:13

I

39:13

mean, that's really important as well.

39:16

So because it is a real team effort, I

39:19

feel like if you are showing

39:21

up and you're, you're putting in that

39:23

energy, the mom, or, you know, the parents

39:26

going to start picking up on that and they, you

39:28

kind of bounce off each other. And.

39:31

You know, something simple like throwing the ball back, back

39:33

and forth, or I'll be silly and I'll maybe like

39:35

throw the ball up and let it hit me on the head

39:38

and then I'll pass it to mom and I'll be like, Hey,

39:40

you know, for this to me, um,

39:42

and just, you know, interaction with the mom to make

39:44

it a safe place. So yeah,

39:47

but it, I mean, it's, it's so important

39:50

to know, you know, for that parent to know they're

39:52

as much as part of the success,

39:55

you know, as I have. It's

39:57

not just me.

39:58

Right.

40:10

So Cerys, Cerys, we're back. This

40:12

is our third Zoom

40:14

call. Zoom keeps kicking us off because

40:17

we've got so much to talk about. Um, there's so

40:19

much to the The Little Annie Way that

40:21

we. I think you and I could probably

40:23

talk about this for like a full week straight,

40:26

but I

40:28

just wanted to go

40:31

back to basics. And

40:33

I think that there's this really important part

40:36

of the The Little Annie Way, which

40:38

is what we call the great handoff.

40:40

So that's when the customer comes in. and

40:43

that's that moment that we've sort of been talking about.

40:46

About getting the child actually

40:48

into the chair. and you and I have

40:50

talked about this before, where there's just

40:53

this really essential micro

40:55

moment. We are looking at the baby

40:58

and you're really getting

41:00

a read on how they're feeling. So talk

41:03

me through that process. Like, how do

41:05

you go about transitioning

41:07

out of mom's arms where the baby's lovely

41:09

and safe into

41:12

the chair?

41:16

This is one of those things that is

41:18

so important to the

41:21

flow of the day in ensuring

41:23

that your, your popping day

41:25

runs smoothly. I don't know

41:27

if this is something I've always done, but it's just

41:29

looking at the baby, making eye contact with the baby,

41:32

smiling. I'm looking at the baby and

41:34

then I'm gauging their response and

41:36

like, ah, it's smiling. And depending on the age

41:38

of the baby, are you ready for your pop in?

41:41

Or, you know, if it's a bigger kid, Hey, come on, dude,

41:43

are you ready to like hop in the chair? And

41:46

depending, you know, that. A

41:49

toddler. Do you want to climb in the chair or should I

41:51

lift you in? There's,

41:54

you know, there's, there's two choices that basically

41:56

lead to the same thing. Um,

41:59

or hey mom, do you want to pop baby straight in the chair?

42:02

If they look happy and comfortable enough. And

42:05

it's just about, uh, yeah, it's just all

42:07

about making eye contact straight away

42:09

and being like,

42:11

hi, and having that smiling sort of

42:13

open expression and your eyes open, you're, you're

42:15

really smiling and showing them what, you know,

42:17

like a, you're not a scary person

42:20

but also that, that, that's the expression

42:22

that you want from them as well. And babies are really great

42:24

at mirroring., faces. So

42:27

you're usually going to get a little smile out of

42:29

the baby at that point. In

42:31

return, but sometimes you see

42:34

the baby just fully koala mode into

42:36

them and they are clinging on. There's

42:38

a stage that we know of around

42:40

sort of like eight, nine months where the babies

42:43

go full on koala, and then

42:46

I'm like being away from your mamas. if

42:48

you see a baby sort of shrink back into their

42:50

mommy, and they're obviously not wanting to get into the chair,

42:52

what's your, what's your next go there?

42:56

Oh, distract, distract, distract.

42:58

Um, I know we talk a lot about compliment,

43:00

compliment, compliment for moms, but for kids,

43:02

it's all about distracting. yeah,

43:05

it's, uh, getting them on your, getting

43:07

mom to come down to your level, making

43:09

sure they're like, Yeah, whilst they're in the safety

43:11

of their parents arms, connecting

43:14

to that child. It's

43:16

just those little things that you can do. And

43:19

yeah, you, you said it before, micro moments.

43:22

It's not just when it's their

43:24

turn to come into the chair. It's actually the

43:26

second they come in. And

43:29

making contact with them like,

43:31

Oh, Hey, you ready? And like, are you, have

43:33

you come for your pop in today? Yeah,

43:35

it's going to be your turn soon. and

43:38

that might be just, you know, like between clients

43:40

before I call the next person. I'm like,

43:42

Oh, Hey, Max, it's

43:44

your turn. Are you ready, buddy? Come

43:46

on over. And then. If they,

43:49

if I see, and I gauge their reaction,

43:51

they're like, Nope, I am not coming

43:53

over to you. I've got full blown

43:56

stranger danger. I'd

43:58

be like, Hey mum, do you want to bring Max over

44:00

and, come and sit here next to me.

44:03

And rather than them plonking the child

44:06

straight in the chair, which, if they are already

44:08

nervous, they're already, skeptical about

44:10

what the heck is going on, you'd

44:12

need to be able to just make

44:14

a small connection with that child to go, this

44:17

is going to be fun. This, yeah,

44:19

we're here to have a good time. And I

44:21

might go, Oh, Hey, is this, is

44:23

this your bunny? Should we put

44:25

bunny in the chair? Should we tickle

44:27

bunny? Oh my goodness. I bet you can't

44:30

make bunny laugh and being really playful.

44:33

And then I'll maybe take a picture

44:35

of the bunny or, you know, we've got a duck

44:38

in our basket. So if they don't have a toy, I'll maybe

44:40

put the duck in I'm going to tickle. Ducky.

44:42

Are you ready? one...

44:45

two... And it's also just showing them,

44:47

this is what we do. And then I take

44:49

a photo and I show them the photo and

44:52

the kid's like, okay, I kind of get it. This

44:54

is the process. And that's not

44:56

that scary. And

44:58

then when they're kind of looking like

45:00

they're smiling it back at me, which. It's

45:04

usually what happens. And

45:06

I'll go, Are you ready to climb up in the chair?

45:09

And then they'll get in the chair and then

45:12

I'll say, Do you want some tickles? Just

45:14

basically turning that whole experience around

45:16

for the child to making it,

45:18

It's that confidence again, right. It's

45:20

sort of, it's empathizing with the

45:23

child as well as the mother. And it's taking

45:25

control the child can sense that as well when

45:27

they, when they can see that, you know, what you're

45:29

doing, you've got some cool tricks up your sleeve

45:32

and like playing that whole scenario through with

45:34

them, with their rabbit or with the toy that they're carrying

45:36

or, you know, a toy from your own basket. And

45:39

then beyond that, also

45:41

going like, Oh, great job,

45:43

bunny hop down, bunny. You're all finished.

45:45

It was quick, wasn't it? And then the child can say this.

45:47

Oh, look, should

45:49

we get a

45:51

sticker for bunny?

45:53

Great job. And

45:55

you sent me an awesome video the other day of

45:58

a really great tactic that I've seen used quite

46:00

a lot, which is, feeding the duck puppet,

46:02

which kids love, like pretty much spans

46:05

the whole age range but we've got

46:07

a few like fluffy pom poms in our kit and

46:09

a duck puppet. And the idea

46:11

is, throws the pom pom over to the child,

46:14

then we say, do you want to feed the ducky?

46:17

We go yum, yum, yum with the puppet and

46:20

the child, the ball and the,

46:22

duck eats the ball and it was like, Oh, yummy.

46:26

Um, and the kids just like fricking love it.

46:28

And then, you know, like you can play that game again and

46:30

again, and they forget the fact that you're taking photos

46:32

at all. The skill of the photographer

46:35

is obviously like being able to play that game

46:37

and take photos. I remember that you've got to be

46:39

trying to capture those sort of expressions

46:41

as well.

46:43

Yeah. Yeah. And then again, a good thing

46:45

to like mention that, and you know, I've done

46:47

this with your kids. Um, if, if

46:49

the child is looking a little bit like, I

46:51

don't want that. puppet, or you

46:53

coming into my personal space. And

46:56

sometimes that happens, you know, it doesn't matter

46:58

how well you that child and how long you've been photographing

47:00

them. They, they walk through stages where they're like, I

47:03

don't want you in my personal

47:05

space. So I do this

47:07

like really stupid,

47:10

fun thing for the kid where I'll

47:12

like, maybe go like, nom,

47:15

nom, nom, almost coming towards them and I'm gauging

47:17

their reaction. Does this child actually want

47:19

me in their personal space? And if

47:21

I think, oh no, they don't, I'll

47:24

go like, back towards my

47:26

own face with the duck puppet

47:28

and pretend the duck is like nomming at me,

47:31

which usually cracks a smile. Like,

47:33

haha, they got you. They didn't get

47:35

me. That's like my favorite

47:37

trick that you, have done when you're photographing

47:39

my children, because it cracks me up.

47:41

It's really funny when you do it and so it's

47:43

the mother standing there laughing

47:46

away and then my child is seeing

47:48

me laughing and having a good time. And so that

47:50

more relaxed, you got to give

47:52

some credit to also this connection between

47:54

the mom and the baby where

47:57

the, the child is looking at their mother for

47:59

how they're feeling and trying

48:01

to get a gauge on how they should be reacting

48:03

as well. So if you can crack up the parent, or

48:06

if you can really. Sort of butter up the parent

48:08

and make sure that they're feeling really relaxed in

48:10

this situation as well. That

48:12

really feeds through to how the baby's feeling too.

48:15

Yeah. Yeah. And like the,

48:18

the very first, like before

48:20

all of that, before, you know, I

48:22

might take the

48:25

duck out the basket, as soon as the

48:27

child is like, made it into the chair, I,

48:30

the first thing I do is take that safe

48:32

shot because you actually don't know how

48:34

that child's going to react. I'm trying

48:37

my best to, gauge their

48:39

reactions. And is this

48:41

child looking a little bit unsure or are

48:43

they now ready for like a bit of fun,

48:46

but I just take a safe shot so that

48:48

I can always deliver something to the

48:50

parent. And if the child completely nopes

48:52

out, I've got a safe shot and

48:54

I always say to the parent, Hey, at least,

48:56

you know, we've got this moment in

48:59

time. We've captured this,

49:01

this. milestone that your child is currently

49:03

going through where they're maybe a little bit,

49:05

you know, on that stranger danger, milestone.

49:09

So we just. Always want to make sure I've captured

49:11

something with the parents

49:13

so that they can always look back on, this moment

49:16

and remember that time. Oh my God. Do you remember

49:18

that? And now like we have parents

49:20

that come in and they're like, Oh my goodness, do you

49:22

remember that time where he wouldn't even get in the

49:24

chair? And now look at him. He's like climbing

49:27

up and he's posing

49:30

and I guess that circles

49:32

back to what we're talking about with the mom, you know,

49:34

who comes in with the thunderstorm that's not

49:37

a personal attack of a child is not smiling at

49:39

you. They're just not feeling it that day. And I think

49:41

rising above that, keeping going and keeping your

49:43

sort of like spiel up and being fun

49:46

rather than, sort of taking that on like, Oh

49:48

God, this child is hard to shoot. Yeah,

49:50

it was really important. And just understanding that

49:52

that's just today and next month, he's probably

49:55

going to be a lot, you know, a whole

49:57

nother child.

49:59

Yeah. Oh, definitely. Yeah.

50:01

Yeah. And it's, it all starts

50:04

from that second. They walk

50:06

in the door

50:07

I will say about you particularly

50:10

shooting, and what we teach our team

50:12

of photographers to do in Wellington is

50:15

really keep up this kind of like repartee

50:17

as we're going through the shoot. You don't

50:20

really want to have these moments where it's like

50:22

a bit of a lull and quiet and

50:24

sort of awkward. So I think,

50:26

uh, it's really key to

50:28

have a bit of a script in your

50:30

mind. You know, like the moment that the

50:33

mom comes in, it's you're in control. You're

50:35

taking the conversation by control

50:37

as well. Where you're like, Hey, how

50:39

you going? Let's come on through to the chair. Oh

50:41

my gosh. You look so cute today. Come on, let's

50:43

sit you down. Um, and you're talking

50:45

the whole time, you know, like, do you want to play with the balls? Here we go.

50:47

Here's the tickler. Here it comes. And you're just,

50:50

It's like giving them plenty of reinforcement

50:52

to where it's like, that looks gorgeous. Yes.

50:54

Keep it up. Oh my God. You're cute. Look

50:56

at your hair. Look at your your shoes.

50:59

Yeah. Look at your cool shoes. Yeah. And

51:02

just choose a bloody adorable energy

51:05

that's going through the shoot. Like that really has a

51:07

big impact. And also. I

51:10

think helps get those smiles or that it's easy,

51:13

relaxed expressions coming through a lot more quickly.

51:15

And that means that you can move on to the next child more

51:17

quickly too. So yeah,

51:20

that's really important. It's quite a, it's quite a unique

51:22

skill. It can be tricky to learn, especially

51:24

if you're already a skilled photographer, there's

51:28

a whole lot more to shooting pop ins

51:30

than just taking the photos. It's like having

51:32

that energy to move the day along and

51:34

keep things flowing like there's a lot to it.

51:38

Oh my goodness. It's so funny

51:39

that you say about being a skilled photographer

51:41

because, I mean, I, I've been here

51:44

for a few years and you know, me,

51:46

I, I don't

51:49

ever, ever see myself as,

51:51

being a great photographer.

51:53

I just think I, I,

51:55

you know, I put myself down a lot and I have, um,

51:59

what do they call it? Imposter syndrome all the time.

52:01

And it, and it's that, okay,

52:04

I might not be the best photographer, but

52:06

I've got clients that come back

52:08

month after month after month. Um, you know,

52:11

we've gone from maybe doing

52:13

60 Pop-ins. A

52:15

day or, you know, a month, cause

52:18

I think when we started, we had like the two days

52:20

in Karori and now we do like almost

52:22

a thousand, which

52:24

just seems so crazy. And

52:27

you know, when we are looking at the client numbers the

52:29

other day and just genuinely

52:32

excited about the amount of people that

52:34

we've photographed here in Wellington

52:36

and it goes

52:38

in my mind, like, uh, wait, uh

52:41

huh. Um, but

52:43

I, I tell myself I'm not a great photographer,

52:45

but then there's like thousands

52:48

of people that keep coming

52:50

back and it's, yeah, it's,

52:52

it's not just about the photo.

52:54

I

52:58

mean, I will say Cerys, you are

53:00

an amazing photographer and I think you'll be very

53:02

hard on yourself. and very humble there. But

53:06

that's touched the point we're talking about the,

53:09

the photographer's role is not. Just

53:11

clicking the button. It's about creating an

53:13

experience. You're going to connect to that photo

53:16

as the memory. Whenever,

53:18

ever you look at that picture, you're going to remember that

53:20

whole experience and that that's a

53:22

real skill.

53:23

Thanks. It's nice to hear I mean,

53:26

I, I know there's a lot of photographers

53:28

out there that can relate to that

53:31

imposter syndrome and not

53:34

maybe feeling like you're the, you know, the

53:36

greatest. Absolutely. I think as soon

53:38

as you start, you're really good at it. That's when

53:40

you lose interest. Let's just

53:42

quickly change topic and talk about

53:44

outfits because outfits are like a huge

53:46

deal for our pop

53:48

in clients. We have a

53:50

popaholics group and I feel like 99

53:53

percent of the conversation is about what am I going

53:55

to wear next month? And a whole

53:58

part of this customer journey

54:00

that we've got is the mom planning out these outfits,

54:02

maybe buying something new for their baby to wear.

54:05

I remember you, when you brought Max

54:07

in when he was, It's just a little Bubba

54:09

and we saw him every month. Um, when I first

54:12

met you way back in the day, Max's

54:15

collection had him wearing his same

54:17

outfit as he was growing. You've had it in a few different sizes.

54:20

Um, some of our moms are creating

54:22

these collections. They've got the vision for the whole

54:24

year when they want to put those photos together

54:27

and the outfits all the same or the outfits.

54:29

So I'm doing Marnie's collection at the moment,

54:31

hers are all pink outfits. i

54:33

want them to look nice together

54:35

in the frame. And

54:37

I think. A lot of the The Little

54:39

Annie Way, and a lot of like a

54:42

conversation on the day focuses

54:44

in around those, outfits and like recognizing

54:46

how much thought has gone into those. So

54:49

talk me through how you go about

54:51

acknowledging that part of the journey and what you

54:53

say to the moms and that kind of

54:55

thing, because I think that's a real simple way to

54:58

like. Have a conversation.

55:01

Oh, see, there was this one client

55:04

and it got to about the third month that I realized

55:07

I recognized the baby because

55:10

of the outfit she had put him in. And

55:14

I was like, Oh my goodness. And

55:16

I was like, Hey, did you, and at

55:18

first I was like, Hey, hang on, wait, did you forget

55:20

you already put him in this outfit? And

55:25

I was like, Oh my goodness, you've put

55:27

him in the same outfit. That's so cool.

55:29

And uh, have you, have you bought every size?

55:33

How amazing are you? What like,

55:35

great forward thinking or, you

55:37

know, towards the end of the year, I'm like, go

55:39

you, you've, you know, you've got this

55:41

collection of images of the baby

55:43

in the same outfit. Um,

55:47

It's so impressive. It's so

55:49

cool. Do you remember that

55:51

customer that we had who she

55:54

had her first boy and she put kind of

55:56

just put any outfit on, I think they

55:58

were also bluish, but you know, like every month

56:00

she was just out with whatever outfit she could,

56:02

she thought would look cute on him, but then when

56:04

she had her second baby, another

56:07

boy, she put. All the outfits

56:09

that her first child had worn and did like

56:11

a matching set, basically. So one

56:14

month they were wearing the same, the

56:16

same side by side. Yeah.

56:18

It was so cool. Such a good collection.

56:20

You know, have like both of your boys hung up

56:22

on the wall and you can really compare

56:24

them because they're wearing the same, same

56:27

outfit as each other at the same age. So,

56:29

so cool. So much you can do with Pop-ins.

56:32

We've got

56:33

one mom in Wellington that she

56:35

does the classic white t shirt, blue

56:37

jeans or blue pants. And

56:39

she has done it for, she's

56:41

now got three boys and she's done it

56:44

for every single one of her babies. But she's also

56:46

done it for her family pop

56:49

in and her mother's day pop in. And she

56:51

just kind of said she wanted the focus to be on

56:53

the kid, like not so much the outfit,

56:55

but the outfits. Kind of become like

56:57

this running thing now. It's like, well,

56:59

I don't even have to think about it now because I know

57:01

exactly what I'm gonna,

57:04

um, yeah, but she's, yeah,

57:07

she, she put so much thought

57:09

in, you know, that first year. It's that, that

57:11

comparative, the side by side.

57:14

And I'm like, wait, are you, is

57:16

this, are these

57:17

twins? Um,

57:19

Yeah. You've got

57:21

your customer already thinking about their whole collection

57:24

too, like that that's your job done. Like they're,

57:26

they're definitely going to come in again

57:28

and again, right? Because they're thinking about how

57:30

it's going to look at the end with that, all those pictures

57:32

together. So I think

57:35

it's so important, you know, like seeing

57:37

these mums come in, recognizing that they're trying to work

57:39

towards this bigger collection and sort

57:41

of talking about that as well, like getting them invested

57:43

in the idea that they might want to think about how it looks

57:45

at the end or, really acknowledging

57:48

that verbally as well at the time being like,

57:50

Oh, you look so cute in that way. I love

57:52

it. Little overalls on, you know, on

57:54

girls

57:55

boys, the boys and like the little suspenders

57:58

and like a decade ago and they, and

58:00

I'm like, Oh my goodness. And

58:02

then the moment got, yeah, I've got it in like every

58:04

size and I'm like, yeah,

58:06

like how organized you are. And then,

58:08

oh, coming up to the first birthday, you

58:10

know, and I know that there's birthdays next month. So, and

58:13

I'd be like, are you going to change the outfit? Oh,

58:15

but what are you you going to do the same thing next

58:17

year? And I'm like, Oh yeah, we've

58:19

already got our, we've already got our second year

58:21

outfit planned and we're

58:24

going to do this.

58:24

When you've got Marnie coming in at 11 months

58:27

and you know, you can see on the screen, it says she's

58:29

11 months, you know, the next pop in is going to be.

58:31

The birthday one, like what a great topic of

58:34

conversation. You know, the mom's already thinking about

58:36

it. I've been thinking about money's Pop-in birthday

58:38

outfit for months now

58:41

like, ask the mom, what's

58:43

she going to wear next month as her birthday photo.

58:45

Oh my gosh. You're going to have to do something special.

58:47

Like, you know, you're going to put on a little tattoo,

58:50

like feel free to bring along a balloon

58:52

or a crown or something like that. So special.

58:55

Um, right. You know, like I think

58:57

saying things like that, really saying them out loud,

59:00

the moms can see that you really understand

59:03

what it is for them and understand

59:05

that it's not just a cheap quick photo

59:07

for them. It's, it's about really capturing

59:09

their child. Like how important is that?

59:11

Oh, and another thing as well.

59:14

Um, as I've noticed, you know, at first

59:16

they'll come in and they'll have bows on the baby

59:18

and I'll be like, Oh, you don't have the bow today.

59:21

And they're like, yeah, we really want to show off all

59:23

that hair. That's fine. And they come in like, Oh,

59:25

that's awesome. And

59:27

just like recognizing and

59:30

like, Oh wait, did you have a bow as well? And

59:32

they're like, Oh my gosh, you're paying attention.

59:35

And just to plug the little website again,

59:37

popinphotos.com. I mean, it's so great that

59:39

we can check into the customer's history and we can

59:41

easily see their past photos. Like

59:44

we don't actually have to. I

59:46

mean, obviously we're connecting with these people,

59:48

so we do sort of remember what they're

59:50

working on anyway, but you've

59:52

got a little cheat sheet there. If you can't really

59:54

remember, or if you want to jog your memory, especially

59:57

for us in Wellington shooting so many pop

59:59

ins now, if you have a quick look

1:00:01

back at the customer's history,

1:00:03

then you're teed up to say something like, Oh my

1:00:05

gosh, wait, hang on. We haven't got Mr.

1:00:07

Bunny. Where is he? Um,

1:00:09

and that's all the difference to the customer.

1:00:13

Yeah, also

1:00:14

as well, like that remembering

1:00:17

things for the clients, things like

1:00:19

we've got those light up numbers

1:00:22

or we've got like the little wooden numbers and I'm like,

1:00:24

Oh, hey, for Cleo first birthday.

1:00:27

You use the, you use the light

1:00:29

up number one, do you want to, do you want to put that

1:00:32

in Marnie's photo? Uh huh. Oh,

1:00:34

did I? And you know, and, and, and

1:00:36

just think, and I would, I know

1:00:40

Parkinson's is a big thing. Technically one photo,

1:00:42

but for that, you know, for that first one, I'd go chop

1:00:44

on with or without and just like

1:00:47

sneakily, you

1:00:49

just sneakily just include

1:00:50

in that extra shot for that loyal customer. Yeah. It's this,

1:00:52

this idea of like giving little

1:00:54

treats and extras. Um, this is something that's

1:00:56

been kind of front of mind at the moment,

1:00:59

um, as we're talking about a The Little Annie Way,

1:01:01

and how our brand in New Zealand works.

1:01:03

And, you know, right. We've

1:01:05

gotten to a point where we've been quite strict and

1:01:07

really restricted it down to that one photo.

1:01:09

So we don't have customers having

1:01:12

expectations that are out of what

1:01:14

we can realistically achieve at high volume,

1:01:16

but going back

1:01:19

full circle with that, realizing like the power

1:01:21

of just giving a little extra every

1:01:23

now and then, especially for those customers that

1:01:25

you see all the time and you know, are really

1:01:27

invested in their pop ins, like

1:01:30

how much of a powerful thing that is just

1:01:32

to, just to give them a second photo

1:01:34

sometimes.

1:01:35

Yeah, yeah. I mean, and it's,

1:01:37

usually like, Oh my goodness,

1:01:39

your, your baby is turning one

1:01:42

and, and something as simple as

1:01:44

going, do you want one with With the number one,

1:01:46

and I'll just do one with

1:01:48

that real quick. Literally takes

1:01:50

you two seconds to take an extra

1:01:53

shot without the number one in there and

1:01:55

just include that for that. And

1:01:57

that, that two seconds of

1:02:00

going, Oh, Hey, I'm just going to do this. For

1:02:03

you, it makes that client feel like

1:02:05

you value them,

1:02:08

not, you know, it's, if it makes them

1:02:10

feel like you're, you're doing something

1:02:12

special just for them, there could be another 10 people in

1:02:14

the room, but you're sneakily saying, I'm

1:02:16

going to give you something

1:02:18

extra. Well

1:02:23

done. You just wrapped up this whole like long

1:02:25

3 hour chat that we've been having. Cause that's

1:02:28

a the Little Annie

1:02:30

Way it's seeing the customer

1:02:33

it's understanding their journey and then it's

1:02:35

about treasuring them and really nurturing

1:02:37

them and like giving them what

1:02:40

they want. I think so often as photographers,

1:02:43

we get fixated on like. What

1:02:45

works for our business and what

1:02:47

we are willing to give away and making sure

1:02:49

we're paid and all this kind of

1:02:51

stuff when actually we take a quick step

1:02:53

back and go, what does the mom want?

1:02:56

You know, quite customers only want

1:02:59

one photo Pop-ins, give you an opportunity

1:03:01

to just provide that service that the mom

1:03:03

really wants, photos that are downloadable,

1:03:06

being able to capture these every month,

1:03:09

like these are the things that moms really

1:03:11

want and they want to be seen, they want to be

1:03:13

known. They want to have a chance to vent their feelings

1:03:15

or, or even just have a quick

1:03:17

connection with someone where they look you in

1:03:19

the eye and say, good job. And

1:03:22

that, yeah. So important. And

1:03:24

so, so essential

1:03:26

to Pop-ins and making sure that a Pop-in venture

1:03:29

ends up being successful. And if you can master

1:03:31

that, and if you can do that, then

1:03:33

trust me, you've got a market

1:03:36

for life. You've got customers who are going to be

1:03:38

banging down your door. And, and

1:03:40

your, and your mate and business will just be

1:03:43

easy sailing from there, just as you've experienced

1:03:45

in your business and sunshine studios. So, Oh,

1:03:48

yeah. Joining me today

1:03:50

on How to Pop. And, um, I'm sure

1:03:53

that our listeners extremely

1:03:56

valuable. Um, so thank you so much for your

1:03:58

time. Oh, it's

1:04:00

been fun. Thanks for having

1:04:02

me.

1:04:04

Stay tuned, Popstars. The next episode

1:04:06

is dropping soon. What

1:04:09

do you think? Do you want to get in on this?

1:04:12

Hit me up on social media if you have

1:04:14

questions. I'm always here to help. Check

1:04:17

out our How To Pop Facebook group and

1:04:19

join the conversation. If you have enjoyed

1:04:21

this podcast, have a look at our website,

1:04:24

popinfotos. com. We are very

1:04:26

excited to open this amazing tool

1:04:28

to new international brands very soon.

1:04:31

Sign up to get notified. That's

1:04:35

poppinphotos. com