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Hello.

0:22

Welcome back to How to Win

0:24

2024. It's Thursday, March 7th. And

0:30

I'm Jennifer Palmieri and I'm here with

0:32

my co-host, Claire McCaskill. Good morning, Claire.

0:34

Good morning. I'm in a good mood.

0:37

My middle daughter had her baby on

0:41

Tuesday and his name is

0:43

Dean. And I get

0:45

to fly down to Texas tomorrow to

0:47

spend time with Dean and his sister.

0:50

And I thought his sister did such a good

0:52

job. She's two. And when Maddie came

0:54

home from the hospital, she said, Mama,

0:57

you did a really good job getting

0:59

Dean out of your stomach. I

1:03

know. This was the best. So cute.

1:05

So cute. Oh my gosh. Two-year-olds. It's

1:07

so great. Love it. I love it.

1:09

Okay. So I feel I also I've

1:11

been a good mood because I feel

1:13

good. I feel like you and I

1:15

just wallow in all of stats and

1:17

polls and turnout. And I'm just looking

1:19

at everything and I'm feeling decent

1:21

about the campaign that I know the campaign

1:24

that Biden needs to run. And I'm confident

1:26

that it's you know that it is very

1:28

winnable. So like I'm feeling all right. So

1:30

anyway, today Claire and I want to

1:32

look at what Super Tuesday told us about what

1:34

voters want and whose votes are up for grabs

1:37

this fall. We'll also highlight tonight's State

1:39

of the Union and what message we'd advocate for

1:41

President Biden to send since we have his ear.

1:44

We're also going to talk with Matt Bennett

1:46

and Third Way once again. He joined us

1:48

last fall and kind of opened our eyes

1:50

to the danger of no labels and what

1:52

no labels really represents. They're on

1:55

the move again. Backroom is busy.

1:57

Smoke filled. Nancy Jacobson must be back.

2:00

After smoking a cigar as they gear

2:02

up with all their secret money in

2:04

their secret process to try to in

2:06

my opinion make sure that turbines not

2:09

real actors. And we want

2:11

to sign a spotlight on Trump's

2:13

gathering army of extremists. And this

2:16

concerning. Very. Organized effort

2:18

to impose a christian

2:20

nationalist agenda if he

2:22

is reelected. But

2:24

first to this week strategy session.

2:27

So looking at. Super Tuesday

2:29

take a ways. Trump's.

2:31

Time slips. Everything but Vermont. I'm.

2:33

Like even just beyond what happened on

2:35

Tuesday night when I look at the

2:38

entire primary season like my big take

2:40

a the Trump has a fundamental vulnerability

2:42

in the suburbs of as a fundamental

2:44

vulnerability with independent voters and presumably some

2:47

measure. Of republicans, right? We're not quite

2:49

sure. Who The twenty to forty percent

2:51

of people who voted republican? Primaries that

2:54

voted for Nikki Haley. Exactly.

2:56

Who they are, but whoever they are,

2:58

they were a vote against Trump right?

3:00

Some of the may be revoked and

3:02

some of the may have been democrats.

3:04

mother may have been Independence, but Biden

3:06

didn't have that problem right? Despite all

3:08

the polling that says democrats wanted someone

3:10

other than him to run. I

3:12

think see know and even beyond Democrats is

3:15

an site that for of anti Trump faction

3:17

in this country understands what they need to

3:19

do at the ballot box. So if there

3:21

was gonna be an anti bite and energy

3:24

and the party it would have revealed itself.

3:26

the New Hampshire Primary that didn't happen right?

3:28

Biden wasn't even on the ballot so that

3:30

was prime for a supposedly week president Cb

3:33

challenge by somebody and the party or even

3:35

to have people vote for someone else in

3:37

order to show dissatisfaction with the top of

3:39

the ticket and I just didn't happen. You

3:42

know. i just think it's not a normal

3:44

time when a different place people understand they

3:46

have to back the president in a way

3:48

that perhaps they didn't you know like al

3:50

gore face a more serious challenge from sen

3:52

bill bradley and that two thousand election then

3:54

by than dead and even with the uncommitted

3:56

both in minnesota the uncommitted though was close

3:59

and nineteen percent but it's only 45,000 votes. But

4:02

in Michigan, it was around 12%, I think,

4:05

but it was 100,000 votes. So twice as

4:07

many votes in Michigan. But even the guy who

4:10

was leading the Minnesota uncommitted effort went out of

4:12

his way to say, Trump is an existential threat

4:14

and we can't let him win. So

4:16

even the people who are organizing to

4:19

show some kind of unhappiness with

4:21

direction of the Biden administration policy

4:23

are also quick to say, but we can't

4:26

let Trump win. What were your big

4:28

Super Tuesday? Well,

4:30

first of all, let's say some

4:33

really important stuff that goes against

4:35

too often the media narrative. Joe

4:37

Biden is doing much better in this primary,

4:39

running for reelection as an incumbent president than

4:42

Barack Obama did in 2012. And

4:44

we all know how 2012 turned out. So

4:47

take a deep breath. I think it's

4:49

great the people that are voting uncommitted

4:51

are doing so to highlight an issue

4:53

they feel deeply and passionately about. I

4:55

know that Joe Biden shares their concern

4:57

over what has gone on in Gaza

4:59

at the hands of Bibi Netanyahu and

5:01

the coalition that is really powered by

5:03

some very extreme views. But

5:05

really he's in good shape. The second thing that's

5:08

really important that I think we need to

5:10

dwell on just for a minute, Jen, is

5:12

the polling was off. Let

5:14

me repeat that. The polling was off. I

5:17

took the time yesterday. I, you know, I

5:19

love polls. I'm sick. I'm a total sick

5:21

puppy. I love polls. I

5:23

love crosstabs. So I spent some

5:25

time yesterday going through the polling,

5:28

the Haley versus Trump polling in the

5:30

Super Tuesday states. Let me

5:33

tell you that with one exception, every

5:35

single one of these states overstated

5:38

the support that Trump was gonna

5:40

get. They all overstated Trump's support,

5:43

except for North Carolina. That was the only place

5:45

where he did slightly better than the polling indicated

5:47

he would. Now, in some states it was as

5:49

much as 20, 30 points. The

5:52

polling was saying that Trump was gonna beat Haley

5:54

by 20 or 30 points more

5:56

than he did. So everybody

5:58

take a deep breath about polls. It is

6:00

really hard to sample now. It is

6:03

complicated to model. It

6:05

is very hard to get people to answer their phones

6:07

for a number they don't recognize. There's

6:09

a lot of self-selection going on in terms of

6:11

people who want to be polled as opposed to

6:13

people who should be polled. So that was... And

6:16

by the way, the polling on Biden was off

6:18

too. He did much better than the polling predicted.

6:20

Much better. And so those are

6:22

my two important takeaways. Biden is doing fine in

6:24

these primaries. He's doing much better than Trump.

6:27

Let's underline the takeaway here. If I

6:29

were in the room, I would remind

6:31

the campaign constantly, there

6:34

are somewhere between 20 and 25%

6:37

of Republicans, not

6:39

independents, not Democrats, who voted in

6:41

open primaries. There are

6:43

20 to 25% of Republicans that will

6:45

not or don't want to vote for

6:48

Trump. That is

6:50

the votes they got a hyper focus

6:52

on, find them, communicate with them, and

6:54

make sure they understand what this president

6:56

represents. And their statement, the

6:59

president's statement when Nikki Haley dropped out yesterday

7:01

was great that way. It was very

7:03

welcoming of those people. We all share

7:05

the same concerns. We have some differences,

7:07

but we're united and having this concern,

7:09

basically the same we're united and having a concern about

7:11

Trump. And that was... I thought that

7:13

was a good step. He's really good at that.

7:15

He's really good at the decent, respectful appeal. The

7:18

other big thing is money. Joe

7:20

Biden has $130 million. And

7:23

their Republican Party is a mess. One

7:25

thing about if I were in the room with all the money they

7:27

have, ads now, you

7:29

know, now Super Tuesday's over, just you got to stay

7:32

at the union and then just barrage of

7:34

ads on abortion rates, ads

7:37

on accomplishments, just like, go,

7:40

spend that money. Democrats

7:42

will make more. So let's riff

7:45

just a minute about the down ballot races.

7:47

Adam Schiff's strategy paid off. You

7:49

can call him almost Senator Adam Schiff. Yes,

7:51

the Republicans had a good turnout in the

7:53

primary in California. Democrats know that. So I

7:56

know they're going to get busy. Colin Allred

7:58

had a great night. He's got

8:00

a shot, but listen everybody, yeah Texas. He's

8:02

got a real shot against Ted Cruz. And

8:05

you know we all know Ted Cruz is not the

8:07

most likable guy on the planet. So and Beto O'Work

8:09

is a great guy and inspiring and all that, but

8:11

like Colin Allred is probably better suited for

8:13

Texas as my degree of respect and love

8:15

Beto O'Work. So it's not 2018 and 2022

8:17

all over again, right? This

8:21

is something different in Texas. And then

8:23

we have some kind of really

8:25

bizarre kook that has actually

8:27

been nominated for governor in North Carolina.

8:29

That's a word from my mother

8:31

used to use. Well, they're a kook. So, you know,

8:33

this is a guy who thinks women and be better

8:35

if women didn't have the right to vote. The Holocaust

8:38

didn't happen. No exceptions, not

8:40

even life of the mother in

8:42

terms of his anti-women stands on

8:44

abortion rights. So, and

8:46

then on the House side, we had

8:48

some really far right people win, some

8:50

MAGA candidates. Good luck Mike Johnson, the

8:53

more are coming. You're gonna have really

8:55

quite a mess as the minority leader

8:57

in the House, hopefully. The

8:59

one I wanna highlight is Brandon Gill. Keep

9:02

that name top of mind. He won a

9:04

congressional seat basically by winning the primary in

9:06

Texas the other night. He

9:08

is Dinesh D'Souza's son-in-law.

9:12

Yeah. The guy that did 7,000 mules.

9:15

Or 2,000 mules, yeah. However many

9:17

mules there were, there were a bunch

9:19

of mules and it was all bullshit.

9:21

It should be nominated for the best

9:23

fairy tale movie in the Oscars on

9:25

Sunday. He won and he is going

9:28

to be carrying at far right performative

9:30

politics. Let's tear down the government and

9:32

tear down our country straight

9:34

to the House Republican Caucus. And

9:37

these races are important beyond the states that

9:39

they happen in because they define the MAGA

9:41

element of the party. And so if I

9:43

were in the room with Biden campaign, you would lift

9:45

these races up, not to be hyperbolic,

9:47

but this is where they're going. This

9:49

is who's bidding Donald Trump is doing.

9:51

And that North Carolina race, it has made

9:53

North Carolina a true,

9:55

something that Biden Can win. Biden Lost

9:58

that race by one and a half points. And

10:00

Twenty Twenty. And. That

10:03

state, they pass the twelve like abortion

10:05

Man, it's become more densely urban and

10:07

the last four years those are factors.

10:09

And and with aber democrat. so that

10:11

is now North Carolina I know bidens

10:13

all slaves in at the North Carolina

10:15

really and play And then one. One

10:17

thing I'd say closing out the Super

10:19

Tuesday: Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Georgia, Nevada, Arizona.

10:22

And. Twenty twenty two democrats

10:24

won really hard races. Their.

10:27

Their. Team is fresh. They are ready

10:29

to go daily or fresh for the

10:31

battlefield. They. Know how to win races.

10:33

They know how to turn out voters. And.

10:36

You know, I was in Michigan last Friday

10:38

and the Republican party was having their convention

10:40

except they had to cancel it because this

10:42

sites are breaking out okay like that is

10:45

what's happening. And the republican party. Demurs.

10:47

This other shit together in a way that Republicans do not.

10:50

So. We don't have long time so let's

10:52

say the union. But here's what I'll say.

10:54

very succinctly. Biden needs to be fi see.

10:57

He needs to be aggressive. He. Needs

10:59

to be optimistic and he needs to

11:01

be positive. If he didn't

11:03

pull off those four elements of his

11:06

speech, He. Has the opportunity lay

11:08

out what they've accomplished? Show that

11:10

he is in fact. The believer,

11:12

The patriot in our country, And the

11:15

goodness that it represents. So that's I think

11:17

he should do tonight in I think there

11:19

is no issues that he needs to avoid.

11:21

I think he needs to come. Straight

11:23

out it was just exuding strength.

11:26

Amen, or I. I. Went

11:28

to a little preview last night at the White

11:30

House and one thing I heard that I was happy

11:32

to hear is that spiders going to reassure. The

11:34

American people About the optimism he felt.

11:36

About the country and everything that

11:38

Americans dead to get us to

11:40

this place. and I think that

11:42

kind of reassurance from that is

11:45

a good and need a thing

11:47

or grandfather or grandfather sir. Okay,

11:49

We're going to take a quick break that

11:51

when we're bath mat better of Third Way

11:53

joins us again to give the latest on

11:55

what no labels as up to as they

11:57

gather post Super Tuesday to side a sale.

12:00

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race back in a moment. Everyone

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13:04

a Mac! If you've listened to this podcast

13:06

over the last few months, you know that

13:08

Gin and I have a real problem with

13:10

the group no labels. And. Frankly, other

13:12

third party efforts in this year's election

13:14

and beyond a no Labels candidate been

13:17

a spoiler that would have the potential

13:19

to hand Trump the president, say we

13:21

have no idea who is on venus

13:23

group and because of how they're set

13:25

up, they have no duty to disclose

13:27

that until the announced their candidate which

13:29

they. Are going to choose

13:31

behind closed doors and have a smoke

13:33

filled room type scenario. So it's not

13:35

say it's she, She's doing it all.

13:37

one person. Nancy Jacobson and the reason

13:39

I know this is I have had

13:42

personal conversations with Kansas. She's tried to

13:44

recruit more. She is the one making

13:46

the calls see is the one having

13:48

the discussions. She is the one directing

13:50

the money is an undemocratic process. It

13:52

is the opposite of transparent. Which is what

13:54

the government is supposed to be about. And

13:57

the democratic process as opposed to be about

13:59

so we asthma. It to join us again.

14:01

I'm he's a political veteran, having worked in the

14:03

campaign trail and in the White House for Bill

14:05

Clinton and Al Gore among others, and he's a

14:07

cofounder of Third Way. I worked with them when

14:09

I was in the Senate. They are a productive

14:12

group of people who just want to try to

14:14

get people together. To. Find a way

14:16

to really solve problems. He's back today to help

14:18

us get a sense of what we should be

14:20

watching for is no Labels plans to meet tomorrow

14:22

and decide their next steps. Matt thanks for joining

14:25

us again or it I feel like Claire explain,

14:27

I always want to make sure that you've understand

14:29

that third way a super from no Labels because

14:31

it sounds as if you were advocating for a

14:33

third party. They know that you were. Definitely was.

14:36

Definitely not. So I tell us like there is

14:38

a meeting. The think that's happening with the labels

14:40

wouldn't tell us what is the deal, what's happening

14:42

man. Sen. Joe Manchin. Larry Hogan of us said that

14:44

they are not going to run so we know that

14:46

those two are not option for them. Said.

14:49

They'd been at this now for about a

14:51

year and a half be announced their intention

14:53

to run a third party candidate and september

14:55

of Twenty Twenty Two. Adults when they

14:57

started this and in a year and

14:59

a half they have had some successes,

15:01

but they've had some notable failures also.

15:03

which leads us to do that. The.

15:06

Successes that bruised a bunch of money.

15:08

And. Then use that money to drown the ballot

15:11

as a third party as the No Labels

15:13

party and at least sixteen states right now.

15:15

I said lease because they may have filed

15:17

in other states, but we don't know that

15:19

you're. Quoting. Three of the

15:21

presence about on Nevada, North Carolina and

15:23

Arizona so it's very dangerous. They go

15:26

for do this. They. Are almost

15:28

certain to be a spoiler that helps Trump which

15:30

is why we been so animated about. The.

15:32

Failure though, is that they've been

15:34

unable to find high profile people

15:36

to serve on what they called

15:38

their unity ticket. One republican at

15:41

the top and one democrat as

15:43

the vice presidential candidate. Democrats.

15:45

As we know, we're totally united. There's

15:47

like three people we can all meme

15:49

that might even consider serving on that

15:51

ticket. People deem Phillips who ran against

15:53

your mind, But for the most part,

15:55

the party is entirely behind the presence

15:57

of. they're struggling there but there bigger

16:00

problem is they can't find someone for the top

16:02

of the ticket, a Republican, credible

16:04

Republican to lead this thing. And

16:06

they've talked to a whole bunch of people,

16:09

but as you noted, Larry Hogan, the Democrat

16:11

Joe Manchin, and Nikki Haley have all been

16:13

very clear that they have no interest in

16:15

doing it. And Hogan and Manchin

16:18

were co-chairs of no labels. They had

16:20

access to all of their data, all

16:22

their insight thinking, and they took a

16:24

pass. So tomorrow, they are gathering these

16:26

people that they call delegates. They're not

16:29

delegates. They weren't chosen like delegates to

16:31

the Republican or Democratic convention. They're just

16:33

people that support no labels. Allegedly, there's

16:35

800 of them, but who

16:37

knows? They're having a Zoom convention,

16:39

but it's not a convention because

16:42

at a convention, there's the public.

16:45

There's zillions of reporters there. It's live

16:47

on television. None of that's going to

16:49

be true here. They're keeping it close

16:52

to everyone, but they're closest supporters. They're

16:54

going to have what they allege to

16:57

be a vote, not about who they

16:59

should nominate, but about if they should

17:01

nominate a ticket at all. I think

17:03

the outcome is about as in doubt

17:05

as votes of the North Korean legislature.

17:08

I think we pretty much know

17:10

they're going to vote yes tomorrow, but I guess

17:12

we'll have to wait and see. So

17:14

is it really interesting to me because

17:16

when I went on their website and

17:19

went under the tab about, I saw

17:21

a few staff. I saw Nancy Jacobson.

17:23

I saw a couple of people who

17:26

have done some work with

17:28

them, including the former governor of my state.

17:30

But then they had this section said state

17:32

co-chairs. Now, if they have 800 people

17:34

that they have hand selected for this super

17:36

secret meeting, it's not a convention. This

17:39

is a secret meeting. If they

17:41

don't have two co-chairs in every

17:43

state, I'm curious as to are

17:45

these 800 people, the people who have written

17:47

everybody who wrote a six figure check gets

17:49

to get in. Do we have any idea

17:51

Matt? We don't have the faintest idea.

17:54

Isn't that crazy? It's totally crazy. So you

17:56

can presume that their donors are among the 800 people,

17:58

but you point, if

18:00

they can't even name co-chairs in the

18:02

states where they're on the ballot, they

18:04

have people who are co-chairs in multiple

18:07

states, which is to say states they

18:09

do not live in. So it is

18:11

a pathetic showing on their part. And

18:13

this notion that they have 800 people,

18:16

maybe they do, maybe they don't, will probably

18:18

never know, they probably don't. I bet they

18:20

don't. But even if they do, these are

18:22

just kind of people that express support for

18:24

them on the internet somewhere

18:26

or may have signed their ballot

18:28

petitions and then gotten follow-up, we

18:30

have no idea. Is Nancy Jacobson

18:32

refusing to talk to the press? It

18:35

does appear that way. They do have

18:37

people that talk to the press. Ryan

18:39

Clancy, their so-called chief strategist does. Occasionally

18:41

their senior advisor, Holly Page, talks to

18:43

the press. Nancy did

18:46

one or two television interviews very

18:48

early. And since then, she has

18:51

basically refused interview requests from everyone

18:53

as far as I can tell.

18:56

When the press asks for the list

18:58

of these pretend delegates for this super

19:01

secret meeting, what do they say? No?

19:03

Just you can't have the names? They

19:05

say no. So I think one thing

19:07

is important to emphasize. The level of

19:10

secrecy in this organization is extraordinary by

19:12

any measure, but certainly by

19:14

the measure of a national political party.

19:16

So as you noted, they don't say

19:19

who their donors are. And because of

19:21

a legal fig leaf, they can get

19:23

away with that. But they also don't

19:25

say anything about who they're talking to,

19:27

who their delegates are, or anything else.

19:29

They are incredibly closed. And

19:32

that is a very odd way of proceeding. They

19:35

say they do that because forces

19:37

like my organization are

19:39

allied against them. They even wrote

19:41

a letter to the attorney general

19:43

accusing people like me of being

19:46

involved in an illegal conspiracy against

19:48

them, which is

19:51

pretty weird and pretty paranoid. But

19:53

they're very, very tough to crack. Okay,

19:56

so what is the deal with Nikki Haley? You Know, she's

19:58

out of the primary. Is there a chance to... she can end

20:00

up on the second. I don't think so.

20:02

She has done damned us to close the

20:04

door to that. She was asked about it

20:07

several times now. Admittedly before she

20:09

dropped on the race, but she said I

20:11

couldn't do it. I can't run and conservative

20:13

Republican A Not leaving my party. I'm not

20:15

running with the democrats. That's about as clear

20:17

as you can be. So. We're

20:20

relatively confident that she's not as to.

20:22

Be said for a long time. Is it?

20:25

and will I be a spoiler? Like Joe

20:27

Manchin said when he acknowledged that he was

20:29

second run for President, it can he went

20:31

to be a spoiler. Now it appears they've

20:34

changed what they're saying from not been a

20:36

spoiler to something different. What is that pivot

20:38

Did they now have embraced. A We

20:40

talked about this on the from for

20:42

some reason as expressed how crazy it

20:44

is because it is. But one of

20:46

the things that they talk about as

20:49

an outcome they might see is if

20:51

they win a single state or two

20:53

states, they could deny both Trump and

20:55

Biden two hundred and seventy electoral votes.

20:57

I mean even New Hampshire with for

20:59

electoral votes. Could. Be the difference

21:01

in this race Cars as can be

21:03

so close. So let's say they win

21:05

New Hampshire and neither Trump nor Biden.

21:07

just to seventy The then claim that

21:10

they will negotiate with Trump and Biden

21:12

and they've been explicit about what poor

21:14

and B C actually had this from

21:16

the Vice Presidency for cabinet positions for

21:18

concessions on policy. And. Then they'll

21:20

ask their electors in the states they

21:22

one to cast their ballot for either

21:24

Trump or Biden, whoever gives them more.

21:26

And seventeen states including New Hampshire By

21:28

the way, they can do that. You

21:30

can be a faceless selector and you

21:32

could both for attended a little in

21:34

the one that won the state A,

21:36

but the level of insects in chaos

21:38

and probable violence we would see as

21:41

a result to that is immeasurable. It.

21:43

Is so let's let was told us

21:45

out from it. So they decide to

21:48

go forward in their super secret Cabal

21:50

tomorrow and they pick somebody who's not

21:52

think that a candidate mitt say when

21:55

one state let's say they win

21:57

New Hampshire do any of them actually

21:59

believe that the way the house would

22:01

pick which each state getting one vote

22:04

only that it is trump one which

22:06

I believe he would if they did

22:08

this A it's a what do

22:10

we both believe that trump. Would.

22:12

Ever negotiate with him because he would

22:15

have the votes to be elected president?

22:17

Once. Again, even if he had not won

22:19

the popular vote right. They would be

22:21

electing Trump is the worst possible

22:24

way. So it's just puts his

22:26

walk through the the scenario here

22:28

between New Hampshire New Hampshire's republican

22:30

governor and still be governor in

22:32

December. When this matters, the electors

22:34

meet in Concord, New Hampshire. On.

22:36

December six i think it is for

22:38

seventh and the castle electoral votes that

22:41

day and they are told by No

22:43

Labels leadership to cast their votes for

22:45

by let's just pretend and that would

22:47

put Biden over the top of to

22:49

seventy. Will. Then that slid of

22:51

electors goes to the governor who's a

22:53

not ups Trump supporting republican but republican

22:56

unless. Who. Was asked to sign

22:58

a slate of electors for a candidate who

23:00

didn't win his state. Would he do that?

23:02

Probably not. Let says he doesn't

23:04

It then goes to Congress and generous six.

23:06

Let's say, but Democrats control the majority in

23:08

conquering the house for two. Probably Will those

23:10

people be sworn in on January Third, they

23:13

control the majority. Would. They accept

23:15

those electors from New Hampshire that are

23:17

not certified by the governor that would

23:19

put their candidate over the top or

23:21

not. And if they don't it goes

23:23

to the vote by delegation. and Trump

23:25

wins his. They do. We have a

23:27

Civil War. Those are the options. And

23:30

neither those sound good to me.

23:32

I don't understand why they think

23:34

that would work or why they

23:36

think that would in any way.

23:38

Be. Good for America and I can help.

23:40

Ah, hope that somebody has done

23:43

a deep undercover. As

23:45

support for No Labels and is

23:47

one of this cabal that's going

23:49

to meet in secret tomorrow. And.

23:51

Records the whole thing and releases it to

23:53

the public. That's. what i kind

23:55

of hope that would be a perfect outcome

23:57

in by the way still need to quit

23:59

whining there democracy. You know what? I

24:02

just want to say to Nancy Jacobson right now personally,

24:04

you know, I can criticize you all I want. That's

24:07

what this country is all about. This is what

24:09

a democracy is all about. You can't accuse me

24:11

of a conspiracy to somehow

24:13

deny you your First Amendment rights.

24:16

Read the law. Understand

24:18

what America is about before you

24:20

start popping off some stupid letter

24:22

to DOJ about how people

24:24

who are criticizing you need to be

24:27

pursued by the government. It's crazy. It's

24:29

Trumpy. It's really Trumpy. All right,

24:32

Matt, this is all bonkers. Like, what do

24:34

you think their actual goal is here? Like, I

24:36

don't understand why they want to sow such chaos

24:38

in our country. Yeah, I don't think their

24:40

goal is to sow chaos. I take

24:42

them at their word that they're not

24:44

completely insane. I do think that they

24:47

have not thought this through. I don't

24:49

think they thought it through to begin

24:51

with. I think the notion

24:53

that they would start a third party

24:55

by running a presidential candidate was bananas

24:57

to begin with. They should have started

24:59

from the bottom up. And the

25:01

idea that they would do it in this cycle

25:04

with the most dangerous person ever to run for

25:06

president, one of the front runners, I think,

25:08

is especially bizarre. So I think figuring

25:11

out what their goal here is is

25:13

very difficult. I don't think their goal

25:16

is to sow the kind of chaos we're

25:18

talking about, but I think it's the likely

25:20

outcome. And then I heard a presentation from

25:22

Pat McCrory, former Republican governor of North

25:24

Carolina, and Jay Nixon, Democratic governor of

25:26

Missouri. You know, decent people, they seem

25:28

to really believe that this is a

25:31

good idea. But do you think there's

25:33

a chance that that could be the

25:35

ticket, McCrory-Nixon? Yeah, it's a chance

25:37

that they may be down to paid staff

25:39

at this point. I mean, Pat McCrory is

25:41

a one-term governor. He's known as the bathroom

25:43

bill governor. He is deeply

25:45

unpopular in North Carolina, not the strongest

25:48

ticket leader for them, but, you know,

25:50

it may be down to him. So

25:52

what about RFK? I'm beginning to get

25:54

worried about RFK. Yeah, I think it's

25:56

smart to be worried about RFK. He

25:59

is definitely pulling. in third place. We

26:01

have a poll out today where we tested

26:03

a No Labels ticket of Nikki Haley and

26:05

Dean Phillips, which again, I don't think will

26:07

happen, but that's the strongest ticket we can

26:10

think of. They come in a distant fourth,

26:12

which is to say the No Labels comes

26:14

in behind two certifiable lunatics, Donald Trump and

26:17

RFK Jr. RFK is very different

26:19

than No Labels. He's running as an independent,

26:21

not on a party line, although he may

26:23

try to get the libertarian ticket, but I

26:25

don't think so. I think he'll run as

26:28

an independent. He's beginning to get access to

26:30

the ballot. We and others, the DNC included, are

26:32

challenging that, challenging the signatures for challenging the fact

26:34

that he's using a super PAC to help him

26:37

get on the ballot in some places. But

26:39

let's face it, it's free country, as we

26:41

found with No Labels, if you have enough

26:43

money, you can probably get on the ballot.

26:45

And if he does, unfortunately, what

26:47

it means is we, the collective

26:50

anti-Trump coalition, is going to have

26:52

to run zillions of dollars of

26:54

ads in swing states to make

26:56

clear to people two things. One,

26:58

RFK Jr. is not the

27:00

Kennedy you think he is. He

27:02

is a conspiracy theorist and a wacko. And two,

27:05

a vote for Kennedy is a vote for Trump,

27:07

and you know that that's going to cost a

27:09

lot of money, but I think we're going to

27:11

have to do it. I would say one other

27:13

thing, which is in 2016, none of

27:15

us believe, certainly not Jen in the middle of

27:17

the Clinton campaign or any of us on the

27:20

outside, believe that we should pay any attention at

27:22

all to the third party candidates like Jill Stein.

27:24

They were nobodies. It looked like the only thing

27:26

to do was to attack Trump. We won't make

27:28

that mistake again. So I think we will go

27:30

after the third party candidates and make clear to

27:33

voters who they are, but it's going to cost a

27:35

lot of money. Oh, another thing to be

27:37

sleepless about. And you just want to,

27:39

you know, the narcissistic personality that blows past

27:41

what's at stake and does this, I know

27:43

his family is beside themselves. I know it's

27:45

really hard for them to watch this happen.

27:47

We're really pleased to have you back. We

27:49

think you're an important guest for this podcast

27:51

because How to Win 2024 is all about

27:55

stopping third parties that could really throw

27:57

our country into kind of chaos that. believe

28:00

it or not, we haven't even seen yet. And we've

28:02

seen a lot of chaos in the last

28:04

five, six years. So thank you so much.

28:06

And we'll look forward to everything that we

28:08

can learn about what happens with their secret

28:10

meeting tomorrow. Thanks for having me. Thanks, ma'am.

28:14

We're taking a pause here, but next up, we want to throw

28:16

a spotlight on Trump's army of

28:19

extremists. Stay tuned. Hey,

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29:20

Welcome back. Well, we just talked with

29:23

Matt Bennett about a third party threat,

29:25

but here's another threat we want you

29:27

to take very seriously. If elected to

29:29

a second term, Trump would be far

29:31

more knowledgeable about the mechanics of wielding

29:33

executive power. And there are conservative organizations

29:35

lining up to make his administration much

29:37

more effective this time around. Yeah. So

29:39

chief among them is the thing called

29:41

project 2025. It

29:44

is a group that is under

29:46

the umbrella of the heritage foundation.

29:48

They are putting together a plan

29:50

to install in the government,

29:53

people who see the world like

29:55

they see it. And it is

29:57

really scary what project 20, 20.

30:00

is aiming to do. So

30:03

let's go down the list, Jen, of

30:05

the things that they are trying to

30:07

prepare for if Trump is elected

30:09

president. And one of the things that's

30:12

so twisted about this is that the Heritage

30:14

Foundation, you know, that was part of the

30:16

Reagan era. And they created a mandate for

30:18

leadership in 1980. For Reagan, that

30:20

was a blueprint for how they should

30:23

govern. They had a lot of success

30:25

with this. And to now, the same institution

30:27

to be putting for

30:29

this huge government

30:32

overreach wild Christian nationalist

30:34

agenda is really disturbing.

30:37

So what they're looking to do is

30:39

how can they circumvent Congress and the courts

30:41

using executive orders and then wielding

30:43

the power of the government agencies as much

30:45

as possible. There's four key elements to Project

30:47

2025. There's a 900 plus page mandate for

30:52

leadership, a conservative promise. They

30:55

have a playbook, capital P.

30:57

It's a secret compilation of

30:59

executive orders and initiatives for the first 100

31:02

days. The nation wrote about this.

31:04

They have a right wing LinkedIn

31:07

that's designed to recruit and vet thousands

31:09

of MAGRA operatives to staff the government

31:11

and a presidential administration academy to

31:13

train them. So before

31:15

we talk about what's in the mandate,

31:18

which is all scary, scary stuff for

31:20

the values that we hold dear in

31:22

this country, let's talk about what they're

31:24

trying to do to the government. People

31:27

need to understand that there's about

31:29

4,000 federal government employees that are

31:31

political and they are appointed by

31:33

the president and they change with

31:36

each administration. But beginning back really

31:38

before Carter, there was a real

31:40

effort to professionalize government with civil

31:42

servants that are not political, that

31:45

know their areas of expertise, that

31:47

understand how the administrative agency is

31:49

supposed to deliver services. These are

31:52

people who want to serve. They

31:54

are not political people. That

31:56

is who they want to blow up. They want

31:58

to put in an employee. at will

32:01

and remove somewhere between seven and

32:03

ten thousand federal employees that now

32:05

have civil service protection and replace

32:07

them with these extremists. And

32:10

it is a frightening thing because you're going to be

32:12

back to the days it's going to be who you

32:14

know not what you know. So it

32:16

is really scary what this would

32:19

do to the services that people

32:21

depend on in our government. If

32:23

you understand the federal government like we do, this

32:25

is the key to unlocking

32:28

and ridding yourself of

32:30

any guardrails that keeps government

32:32

on track and prevented Trump

32:34

from wrongly implementing you know his will

32:36

when he was president and then technically

32:39

what it is is it would reinstate

32:41

schedule F which is a Trump era

32:43

executive order to reclassify tens of thousands

32:45

of federal employees as essentially at-will workers

32:48

who could be easily fired. And let's

32:50

now they talk about the people who

32:52

have chosen government service. The long

32:54

march of cultural Marxism through our

32:57

institutions has come to pass. The

33:00

federal government is a behemoth weaponized

33:02

against American citizens and conservative values

33:04

with freedom and liberty under siege

33:06

as never before. Our goal is

33:08

to assemble an army of aligned,

33:10

vetted, trained and prepared conservatives

33:12

to deconstruct the administrative state.

33:16

Tell that to the woman in my

33:18

district in Missouri who just wanted some

33:20

help with her Social Security benefits. Tell

33:23

that to the people who go to the

33:25

post office and talk to the friendly woman

33:27

behind the counter that helps them with their

33:29

packages. Tell that to the people who

33:32

call the IRS and need information

33:34

about their taxes and when they're

33:36

getting their refund. I mean these

33:38

are services that are provided to

33:40

people. The VA. Right. So

33:43

that's bad but let's go through

33:46

some of the stuff that the

33:48

mandate talks about. Jen? Yeah. So

33:50

okay the mandate for leadership pledges

33:53

to quote muzzle-woke propaganda at every

33:55

level of government. It demonizes LGBTQ

33:57

population and other marginalized communities. it

34:00

would work to ban gender ideology and

34:02

critical race theory in schools. It would

34:04

ban abortion, no exceptions

34:07

nationwide. There's a comprehensive plan to

34:09

drive immigration levels to unprecedented lows

34:11

and increase the federal government's power

34:14

to the state's detriment. Proposes

34:16

any government funding for nonpartisan media

34:19

like NPR and PBS. So

34:21

why are they doing this? Yes, they're

34:23

doing this because they are trying to,

34:25

this is another quote, restore the

34:27

family as the centerpiece of American life

34:29

and protect our children. They claim

34:32

that today's America family is quitting

34:34

crisis because 40% of children are

34:36

born to unmarried mothers and they

34:38

want to deconstruct the administrative state,

34:40

as Paul Dans said before. And

34:42

I would just say, you know, I think

34:44

people sort of discount Trump. They think that

34:46

he's not dangerous because he's not disciplined and

34:48

he's not focused and doesn't see things through.

34:50

These people do the same

34:52

kind of ilk that works 50 years to

34:55

overturn Roe v. Wade. They're very methodical. They're

34:57

very disciplined. They run very deep. Whereas, you

34:59

know, Trump can be not the most loyal

35:01

person. He does their bidding and it's easy

35:04

for him to do their bidding because they've

35:06

done all the work for him. So we

35:08

really need to take this very seriously. All

35:10

right. And you're going to talk about this

35:12

other group. Yeah, there's another

35:14

group that is headed by Russell Vaught.

35:17

He was the head of OMB during

35:20

Trump's first and we hope only

35:22

administration. He's a Christian nationalist

35:24

who thinks that government should

35:26

reflect Christian nationalism and that

35:28

kind of avoids the original

35:30

text of the Constitution about

35:32

freedom of religion. Yeah, Mike Johnson, Speaker Mike Johnson

35:35

is one of these people. He thinks this. Yeah.

35:37

They don't understand that the Constitution, they want to

35:40

say, oh, it's the original text, it's the original

35:42

text until they don't want it to be the original

35:44

text. So the freedom of religion would go

35:46

out the window with these guys because what

35:48

he thinks they need to do is

35:50

that the country was founded as a Christian

35:53

nation and that the Christian value should be

35:55

prioritized. He embraces the idea

35:57

that Christians are somehow under attack and.

36:00

Spoken of the policies that help pursue the

36:02

main one that I think we need to

36:04

worry about as we think about how to

36:06

win. and Twenty Twenty Four is in fact

36:08

reproductive freedom and what I am at. Everything

36:11

from contraception, the availability of I U D

36:13

is. The. Availability of birth

36:15

control pills. Were. Talking about

36:17

I D S as we've seen limiting

36:19

Id as exact, probably eliminating I the

36:22

Us because of their belief that life

36:24

should begin at conception and therefore for

36:26

lies embryos should be entitled to everything

36:29

that a person who has been born

36:31

into this world deaths some their had

36:33

tried to this all administratively with executive

36:35

orders and with the power that would

36:38

be unleashed by selling all these agencies

36:40

with people who have a different world

36:42

view that I think most Americans young

36:44

and by the way states' rights to

36:47

be the party A states rights this

36:49

slow or for. Is. To take

36:51

all of the power everywhere and put it

36:53

in a central government run by a crew

36:56

of Christian nationalist that have taken over all

36:58

the executive agencies and run by a guy

37:00

in the White House or saying any executive

37:02

order put in front of him as long

37:05

as it gives him more power and he

37:07

can talk about himself more. Yeah, the people

37:09

that put him in office want him to

37:11

do this at As Lakers. But again,

37:13

like we're super worried. About their the

37:15

people need to take it seriously. The time

37:17

said a good piece about this of you.

37:20

just you know Google that guy's name Russell

37:22

voided see a huge A H T and

37:24

the times will come up. Also Politico did

37:26

a story about it so learn more. but

37:28

people really need to know. Npr did a

37:30

story about it too. I mean just Google

37:32

Project Twenty Twenty Five and you're going to

37:34

get lot of information is gonna make your

37:36

hair curl. Your. In a sorry to hear

37:38

more about the sweaty the By campaign is gonna pick it

37:40

up as a same as well. So I mean obviously they

37:42

have to because this is what will happen. So.

37:45

In closing, I just wanna say thank you

37:47

and the regulations to Jessica Schreker of See

37:49

If one of the producers of this podcast

37:51

and has been awesome to work for. She's

37:53

moving on to bigger and better things within

37:55

the Embassy Family said that's great but just

37:57

to give a little sense of her good.

38:00

Intuition. On Monday we had our prep college. She

38:02

said, i think we really need to focus on

38:04

the Sky Mark Robinson. he's gonna be the Gubernatorial.

38:06

Candidate for that Republicans: the North Carolina and he's

38:08

crazy. That's gonna be a big deal and I was like. I

38:11

don't know. Maybe we'll wait a couple weeks and see

38:13

if that materializes into a story. And then of course,

38:15

Twelve hours later, he is a monster.

38:18

Story and the reason why North Carolina by Joe

38:20

Biden has got a really good chance of winning

38:22

North Carolina. So. She's awesome and

38:24

we're grateful to her arm. Congratulations and

38:26

I'm sure you'll do great And next

38:29

role Yeah well this is Jessica. Thanks

38:31

so much for listening As always, if

38:33

you have a question for us, you

38:35

can send it to How To Win

38:38

Questions at Nbc, Un I.com or you

38:40

can leave us a voice mail at

38:42

Six Four Six Nine Seven, Four for

38:44

One Nine Four and we might answer

38:47

on the pot. And also, please remember

38:49

to subscribe Zoo Msnbc is How To

38:51

Win Newsletter. Like I say, I work

38:53

on this every week in of put a lot of thought

38:55

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39:04

show is produced by The Keep.

39:06

Their Lena and Jessica Schreker, Paul

39:09

Lambert Manzi, Catherine Anderson, and Bob

39:11

Mallory are audio engineers Are head

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