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up at greenlight.com/podcast. Hello,

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welcome to How to Win 2024. It's

0:41

Thursday, March 21st. I'm Jennifer

0:43

Palmieri and I'm here with my co-host,

0:45

Claire McCaskill. All right, Claire. So

0:48

my voice is low today because I'm

0:50

under the weather, so I'm going to

0:52

do my deep radio voice today with

0:54

the help of a head cold. So

0:56

I apologize if I sound weird, but

0:58

the show must go on, right? That's

1:00

right. I have not gotten my picks in yet. You

1:03

tell me I have 45 minutes to do so. Where

1:05

are you on the women's final floor? I

1:08

took South Carolina, I took Iowa and South Carolina

1:10

in the final, and I took South Carolina to

1:12

win. It's interesting. I think what's

1:14

so much fun this year is how

1:17

many more people- This is the first

1:19

time our family has done a women's

1:21

bracket. Oh, wow. Yeah. We've always done

1:23

the men's bracket, but this year we're

1:26

doing a women's bracket. I

1:28

saw on TV this morning that

1:30

they have sold more tickets to

1:32

the final four women's tournament than

1:34

they have the men's. I love

1:36

it. This is the best. I

1:40

love it so much. Not

1:42

that we're also not excited for the men, but

1:44

this is just like, I love it

1:46

so much. Yeah, it's great. Okay. Today,

1:48

Claire and I want to use our

1:50

comms and strategy lens to look in

1:53

at some continuing trends as more states

1:55

continue to hold primaries. On Tuesday, you

1:57

had Arizona, Florida, Illinois, Kansas, and Ohio.

2:00

We'll dig into those results and why

2:02

Biden, Corgian Hispanic voters could not come

2:04

at a better time. Jen

2:07

and I are also going to check in

2:09

with Arizona Secretary of State Adrian Fontes about

2:11

his efforts to weed out A.I. and deepfigs

2:13

ahead of the election. And in

2:16

case you didn't know, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. is

2:18

in the race. And while no

2:20

label seems to be fumbling, it seems

2:22

like they can't find a ticket to

2:24

challenge Biden and Trump. R.F.K.

2:26

Jr. has picked up the ball as the

2:29

third party spoiler. He picked up

2:31

that ball and was running with it, and we're going to

2:33

dive into that too. But first, this week's

2:35

strategy session. Takeaways from the

2:37

primaries we had on Tuesday. So the

2:39

Ohio Senate seat, the Trump-backed candidate Bernie

2:42

Moreno won. This is the—he's

2:44

a wealthy former car dealer. He's

2:46

a three-way primary. He's the MAGA Trump guy.

2:49

He was up against more

2:51

mainstream establishment Republicans that

2:54

the mainstream governor, Mike

2:56

DeWine, had endorsed. This is the candidate

2:58

that Sherrod Brown was hoping to get.

3:00

Claire, I know you're really close to

3:02

him. How are you feeling about this?

3:04

Listen, a couple things to takeaways in

3:06

Ohio. If I were

3:09

in the room, I would do

3:11

a happy dance because I think

3:13

this guy has a real chance

3:15

of imploding. He has said some

3:18

really bizarre things, including that he

3:20

supports no exceptions. This is the

3:22

state that voted in the most

3:24

high-profile way to protect

3:26

women's reproductive freedom. And

3:29

they nominate a guy in the Republican Party who

3:31

says no exceptions. There should be

3:33

no rape or incest exception and

3:35

supports a nationwide ban. Now, he's

3:37

tried to flip-flop around about it,

3:39

but the fact that he is

3:41

there when Ohio has said so

3:43

clearly how they feel about this,

3:45

I think, is really going to

3:47

help Sherrod, along with the fact

3:49

that the people know Sherrod and

3:52

know who he is. And by the

3:54

way, let's not leave this topic. We've got a

3:56

lot of other things to cover. But if I were

3:58

in the room, I would remind everybody. how badly

4:00

they pulled this. The polling was

4:02

way off. Everyone in Ohio

4:04

was told by poll after poll that

4:07

this was going to be a close

4:09

primary. It wasn't close. I

4:12

mean, Moreno got more votes than the other

4:14

two combined. But I'm just telling you, the

4:16

polling this cycle The

4:18

polling is really – Yeah. It's hinky.

4:21

Yeah. I mean, that's what we covered last week

4:23

about how it's not – the results were not

4:25

matching up from the primaries from the polls. But

4:28

if I had to pick the two candidates I

4:30

wanted running in the two key states, which is

4:32

Montana and Ohio, I don't think he could do

4:34

any better than my buddy John Tester and my

4:37

dear friend Sherrod Brown. They are both – I

4:39

know. Just – They are

4:41

aces. They are aces. Okay. So

4:43

let's look at the presidential stuff. You know, more

4:45

of the same. And

4:47

I continue to get a little

4:49

irritated that people keep talking about

4:52

that Biden has people voting against

4:54

him, which is not unusual

4:56

for an incumbent Democratic president. More

4:58

people voted against Barack Obama in

5:00

2012 than have voted against Joe

5:02

Biden this year. So this is

5:05

not anything to freak out about.

5:07

Not that we don't have to worry

5:09

about keeping the coalition together. Not that

5:12

Biden doesn't have an issue with Hamas

5:14

and the war in Gaza that he's

5:16

got to address to some

5:18

key constituencies. But Trump

5:21

is still struggling. And he's

5:24

an incumbent also. I mean, if you

5:26

look at this, he's an incumbent president

5:28

for the Republican Party. He's the last

5:30

one they had. And so

5:32

the notion that he is still

5:34

getting, in many instances, less

5:36

than 80 percent of the vote after Nikki

5:38

Haley has dropped out is

5:41

really – if I were in the

5:43

room, it'd be a situation where I'd

5:45

say, okay, let's hear the

5:47

plan for this week going after

5:49

these disenfranchised Republican voters that are

5:51

not going to go for Trump.

5:54

What are we doing this week to make

5:56

sure we're communicating with them, that we're hearing

5:58

them, what they have to say? say, and

6:00

that we're moving them over to our

6:02

column. And the thing is, Trump is

6:04

giving the Biden campaign, and they took advantage of this,

6:07

a great window to do that. Because

6:09

what we know from exit

6:12

polls in the early states,

6:14

and also just from the

6:16

Sarah Longwell Republicans Against Trump

6:18

effort, where she showed all of

6:20

the videos that people voluntarily sent into

6:22

her group to say they are not

6:24

going to support Trump, even though they voted for him

6:27

in 16 and 20. And

6:29

what was the reason? Jan 6. He's

6:32

got a problem with swing voters on Jan 6. He's

6:34

got a problem coalescing Republican voters on Jan

6:36

6. And what does he do? Go

6:39

to Dayton to start this rally

6:41

with the Jan 6th anthem of people

6:43

who were jailed for rioting at the

6:45

Capitol. He starts his rallies with their

6:47

national anthem, and then he starts talking

6:50

about them called some hostages. Well,

6:53

thank you very much. And you see the

6:55

spirit from the hostages, and that's what they

6:57

are, is hostages. They've been

6:59

treated terribly and very unfairly, and

7:02

you know that, and everybody knows that.

7:05

And we're going to be working on

7:07

that. So the first day we get

7:09

into office, we're going to save our country.

7:12

It was interesting. He actually started to

7:14

say, and on day one, he said on

7:16

day one, the first day in office, I

7:18

will, and you could tell you start

7:20

to say pardon them, and then somebody must tell him

7:22

say don't say you're going to pardon the Jan 6th guys,

7:25

even though he said that in the past. And

7:27

he held back and said, make sure they're treated

7:29

fairly or something like that. And

7:31

then went on a few minutes later to talk

7:33

about the bloodbath. So buying team picks this up

7:36

and runs with it, right? They put an ad

7:38

up right away. And it's the

7:40

worst possible thing Trump could be talking about. So if

7:42

you're in the room, that's what you do. And

7:44

they did it this time. If we were

7:46

in the room, I think you would agree with me. Joe

7:48

Biden needs to find two or three

7:51

of the people that are in

7:53

prison for assaulting police officers. Find

7:56

the videotape of them attacking police

7:58

officers. know these

8:00

three people. And they need

8:02

to be the examples that people think

8:04

of when they hear Trump say these

8:07

are hostages and they should be

8:09

pardoned. Because it is so flagrantly

8:11

offensive to the rule of law

8:14

and to law enforcement officers.

8:16

And the notion that all

8:18

these Republicans are lining up behind

8:20

this position when they claim

8:22

to be the party that cares about

8:24

police officers is just stunning to me.

8:26

And you know, the other thing that's

8:29

going on here, speaking of January 6th,

8:31

is we have a growing number of

8:33

former cabinet members that won't support Trump

8:35

in 2024 arriving on the

8:38

scene. These are his people. They

8:40

are the people he selected. You know, he

8:42

only selects the best people. They

8:44

were all in the room. You've got Pence

8:47

now, his vice president.

8:49

I mean, that's just stunning. It's

8:51

just unbelievable that

8:53

we are to this point. The

8:56

Washington Post gathered their voices in a

8:58

wonderful compilation of what they're saying right

9:00

now about their former boss. Let's take

9:03

a listen. Donald Trump is

9:05

pursuing and articulating an agenda that

9:07

is at odds with the conservative

9:09

agenda that we governed on during

9:11

our four years. And that's why

9:14

I cannot in good conscience endorse

9:17

Donald Trump in this campaign. If he runs again,

9:19

would you vote for him? No, I count me

9:21

amongst one of the Republicans that hopes he's not

9:23

the nominee at this point. If Donald Trump runs

9:25

again in 2024, would you vote for him again?

9:27

No. Why not? And I'll tell you why, because

9:29

in my view, any elected official needs to meet

9:31

some basic criteria. They need to be able to

9:33

put country over self. They need to

9:35

have a certain level of integrity and principle.

9:38

Look, Donald Trump doesn't meet those marks for me.

9:40

One of the reasons I'm against Trump as the

9:43

nominee is because I don't think he's going to

9:45

move the country forward. We don't take an oath

9:48

to a king or a queen

9:50

or a tyrant or a

9:53

dictator. And we don't take an oath to

9:55

a wannabe dictator. We have

9:57

his acting chief of staff who really was his chief

9:59

of staff. Mick Mulvaney, we've got

10:01

his defense secretaries, we've got generals

10:03

that served in the most high-ranking

10:05

positions in his administration all saying,

10:08

no, no, do not give this

10:10

guy the levers of power again. It's a

10:12

mistake. I think that's really

10:14

powerful going forward in the election and

10:16

I hope that the campaign uses them

10:19

extensively. Yeah, and people have been complaining about the press

10:21

cover to this. It is amazing that the New York

10:23

Times headline was Pence won't

10:25

endorse Biden. Now, what is up with that? I

10:29

mean, it's just the times. It's just the times for

10:31

you. They always just, they're just so hard on Democrats.

10:33

It's like, that is not the headline, friends. The

10:35

headline is the vice president that served under

10:37

Donald Trump when it starts. I think this

10:39

really matters and the campaign can

10:41

do really effective ads with this

10:44

and it's respected leaders who are

10:46

not backing in this really respected

10:48

military leaders. Millie, you know, Mattis, John Kelly,

10:50

like former generals who've never involved themselves in

10:52

politics and that is going to matter. We've

10:55

seen it. There were Republicans who voted for

10:57

him in 16 and 20 and won't do

10:59

it now. So that is an audience that's

11:01

out there. You know it's there. Go get

11:04

them. Okay. So the Biden

11:06

campaign launched their Latino vote effort

11:08

this week. He went to Arizona to

11:10

do that. You're the reason

11:12

why in large part I beat Donald

11:14

Trump. Let's

11:17

beat him again. It

11:20

is a true thing that when you

11:22

look at polls for, you know, now

11:24

we know they're wacky, but Trump is

11:26

getting a bigger share of the Latino

11:29

vote than ever before. It's true for

11:31

black voters. It's true for Asian voters

11:33

as well. Like I don't find this

11:35

that surprising because there are voters in every

11:37

demographic that are in fine science. There are

11:40

and that's growing and you see most of

11:42

this is happening with non-college voters. It mirrors

11:44

what's happening with white voters. But what's your

11:46

take on this, Graham? Yeah, I listen.

11:49

I think it's too early to tell

11:51

to what extent some of the coalition

11:53

is frayed. I'm not panicked about it.

11:55

I'm glad they're focusing on it. I

11:57

think it's important. There is a real story.

12:00

to tell, this is not

12:02

a guy who supports the

12:04

policies that are most helpful

12:06

to these families. And

12:09

I think that the Republican Party always

12:11

underestimates the parts of these

12:13

coalitions that they try to

12:15

grab by assuming that they're

12:17

stupid. These people

12:19

are not stupid Republicans. They

12:22

know what's going on and they

12:24

are not going to vote against

12:26

their best interests if they have

12:28

the right communication on the right

12:31

issues that really matter to them

12:33

and their families. Right. And I

12:35

think sometimes people mistakenly assume that

12:37

that's immigration with Hispanic voters. It's

12:39

not. It hasn't been for a long time. I

12:42

did see that the Biden team this morning

12:44

put out a good video encapsulating

12:46

all the really racist, insane, terrible

12:48

things Trump has said about deporting

12:51

people and immigrants poisoning the blood

12:53

of Americans that's geared towards Hispanic audiences. But

12:55

I also know that they're sort of under

12:57

the radar strategy, which is what they should

13:00

do is about accomplishments, how unemployment

13:02

rate is lower among Hispanics,

13:05

how the wealth gap is narrowing

13:07

for Hispanic voters. So that's the

13:09

substance about the actual economic issues

13:11

people that impact people. They're focused

13:13

on that too, but you're going to

13:15

see a lot of the, you know, sparkle,

13:17

razzle, dazzle videos that's going to take on

13:19

Trump on the racist immigration stuff. We're

13:22

going to take a quick break, but

13:24

when we're back, Arizona Secretary of State

13:26

Adrian Antes joins us on how he's

13:28

thinking about the impact that artificial intelligence

13:30

could have on the coming election cycle.

13:33

Back in a moment. Oh

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Understand more. Welcome

14:31

back. We're hearing a lot about

14:33

the use and misuse of artificial intelligence

14:35

in all aspects of our lives. And

14:38

obviously politics is not immune

14:40

from those dangers. Warnings about

14:43

generative AI hoaxes in our elections

14:45

are popping up. And we should

14:47

be paying very serious attention to them.

14:49

So just last week we were talking

14:51

about a Trump supporter spreading fake images

14:53

of him surrounded by smiling, enthusiastic black

14:55

voters. And you knew it was fake

14:57

because he was letting them hug him, which

14:59

he doesn't like anyone to touch him.

15:01

So we knew that was fake.

15:03

But imagine seeing a fake video

15:05

pop up online showing a state election

15:08

supervisor shredding ballots and the impact that

15:10

that would have. Or an AI generated

15:12

call about false election results. How

15:14

can you tell what's real and what

15:16

isn't? You know, these questions are not just

15:19

keeping Jen and I up at night. Secretaries

15:21

of state all across the country

15:24

are spending a lot of time worrying

15:26

about this because this is their responsibility.

15:29

They're responsible for the oversight of elections, which I

15:32

want to remind everybody. One of

15:34

the reasons our elections are so secure is

15:37

because the power to oversee

15:39

elections is not in one

15:41

place. But this problem is

15:43

a new wrinkle for these important

15:46

elected officials. They are keenly aware

15:48

of the stakes, especially in this

15:50

election, where we are

15:53

kind of babbling how secure

15:55

people feel about our elections, not

15:58

how secure they are. because they

16:00

are frankly the most secure elections

16:02

in the world. But

16:04

Trump has done a real number

16:06

on people's sense of security about

16:08

whether or not these votes are

16:10

being tabulated fairly. So

16:12

we have today a great guest, Secretary

16:15

of State in Arizona, Adrian Fontes, is

16:17

one of these people that is worrying

16:19

about these problems alongside of us and

16:21

he is with us now. Welcome to

16:23

the program. I hope you don't mind

16:25

if I call you Adrian, please call

16:27

me Claire. And we are thrilled to

16:30

have you joining us. Thank you so much for having

16:32

me, Claire. It's a pleasure to be chatting with you

16:34

this morning. So Jen, I think

16:36

what we need to do first is

16:38

have Adrian explain to our audience how

16:40

your state actually works in terms of

16:43

counting votes and how concerned

16:45

are you actually about hoaxes through

16:48

artificial intelligence impacting our

16:50

elections this year? Well first, we

16:52

are a what we call sort of

16:54

in the parlance a bottom-up

16:56

state versus a top-down state. So

16:59

our elections are run at the

17:01

county level. Now Arizona's only got

17:03

15 counties but

17:06

they're quite large geographically and very,

17:08

very diverse. We have some counties

17:10

that are enormous in size.

17:12

Coconino County, for example, is the second largest

17:15

in the United States. It is 15 and

17:17

a half times bigger than Rhode Island, the

17:20

state. We also have some

17:22

of the smallest population-wise counties in the

17:24

United States of America. Greenlee County only

17:26

has a few thousand voters in it

17:28

and Maricopa County has 2.5 million,

17:30

second only in the

17:32

Los Angeles County. So it's very diverse. But

17:35

bottom-up because the boards of supervisors in each

17:37

of those counties are the county election board.

17:39

They appoint an election

17:42

director who is the check to

17:44

the balance. Now the balance there is a

17:46

county recorder who is elected, a

17:49

partisan elected executive. And that

17:51

was a job you had, right, for Maricopa?

17:53

I did in Maricopa County, yes. So there's

17:55

a that's exactly right. So you

17:57

have one partisan elected overseeing voter registration

17:59

or early voting things of this nature. And

18:01

then you have one appointed under a

18:03

board of supervisors. They're the

18:05

ones that acquire all of the equipment. They're

18:08

the ones who select the polling places and

18:10

the poll workers. They're the ones who take

18:12

care of the ballots. They're the ones who

18:14

take care of all the mailing and all

18:17

the budgeting and all that stuff. The Secretary

18:19

of State is really a regulator. But we

18:21

are a bottom up state versus a state,

18:23

for example, like Georgia, where Secretary Raffensperger is

18:25

top down. He gets all of the equipment.

18:28

He decides a lot of the policy-specific stuff

18:30

in their state. So in this bottom

18:32

up, we have a whole bunch

18:34

of questions and a whole bunch of ways of

18:36

doing things. And, Claire, I think you pointed out

18:38

the strength of our system is our diversity and

18:41

diffusion of this administrative model.

18:43

What am I worried about insofar as

18:45

artificial intelligence is concerned? It's

18:47

kind of a Rumsfeld moment for me, right?

18:49

We don't know what we don't know. This

18:52

thing is going to move. It's going to

18:54

change. It's going to shape differently. But the

18:56

really critical thing here is that artificial intelligence

18:58

is not a new threat. It is an

19:00

amplifier and a broadener of the

19:02

exact same old threats that we've already

19:04

faced. Misinformation, disinformation, malinformation, the lies, the

19:07

conspiracy theories and this. It just pushes

19:09

those things out there a lot further,

19:11

a lot deeper, and a lot broader

19:13

and a lot more quickly. And so

19:15

that's the main concern that we have

19:18

here in Arizona. And

19:20

I can say that for a lot of secretaries across the

19:22

country. You all ran the

19:24

first in a series of novel

19:26

experiments in Arizona back in December

19:28

where you used AI deepfakes to

19:30

try to prep for election hoaxes.

19:33

Yeah. So one of the best ways

19:35

to describe this is it's like the

19:37

boogeyman theory of the

19:40

way we deal with issues. A lot of people...

19:43

I'll just use a Hogwarts example type

19:45

of thing. People never said Voldemort's name

19:47

because invoking the name was really scary.

19:50

Well, once Harry Potter started running around

19:52

saying Voldemort, he wasn't so scary anymore.

19:55

AI is an unknown. A lot of people are

19:57

not familiar with it. It is a mysterious shadowy

20:00

So we wanted to put it in front of

20:02

our election officials. We wanted to put it front

20:04

and center with our communications folks, our law enforcement

20:06

folks. So we created a tabletop

20:08

exercise. Law enforcement and the military do this training a

20:11

lot. We sit around a big table and

20:13

we run folks through an entire scenario

20:15

and then we will have the trainers

20:17

put injects into the situation to

20:20

see how everybody reacts and they've got to go

20:22

back and forth. So one of the injects, several

20:24

of the injects that we had were deep

20:26

fakes. One of them was a deep fake of

20:29

myself. We had another deep fake of a different

20:31

election official as an example. And

20:33

that person was actually deep

20:35

faked speaking fluent German and

20:37

fluent Mandarin Chinese. That

20:40

person doesn't speak either of those languages. We

20:43

also had some voice deep fakes that

20:45

were played over sort of

20:48

the loudspeaker system for the 200 election

20:50

officials, law enforcement officials, county managers, county

20:52

emergency responders, vendors. We had just a

20:54

whole slew of folks in this exercise.

20:56

And it was really just a question

20:58

of can we familiarize folks with what

21:00

it is, you know, get rid of

21:02

some of the mystery and just make

21:04

folks aware so that we can figure

21:06

out how to react because the last

21:08

thing you want to do is

21:10

meet a threat that you've never seen. And

21:12

how did they react? How did the simulations go? It

21:15

was really interesting. I mean

21:17

folks were very, very curious. We had

21:19

some experts in artificial intelligence and generative

21:21

AI from Palo Alto from somewhere in

21:24

Massachusetts. I hear there's a lot of

21:26

computer people there. We did two full

21:29

exercises. One consisted of several months leading

21:31

up to election day and then the

21:33

second one on the morning of the

21:35

second day, we ran through an election

21:37

day scenario. And the reaction was very,

21:40

very positive, although folks were really concerned,

21:42

right? And they thought, wow, this is

21:44

definitely something we need to pay close

21:46

attention to. And the rough thing for all of

21:48

us is, you know, we came to the realization

21:50

that wherever this technology was in mid-December when we

21:52

did this training, it's a hell of a lot

21:54

further along now and it's going to get a

21:57

lot better by the time we hit next

21:59

fall. So what

22:02

did the exercises teach these

22:04

election officials about how they

22:06

need to deal with this this year? What

22:08

can people do? And what we try to

22:10

do on this podcast, Adrienne, is we

22:13

try to keep people from freaking out.

22:15

Yeah. You know,

22:17

there's a lot of folks that

22:19

are Democrats and that are really

22:21

worried about this election. And we

22:23

almost hate to pile another thing

22:25

on about everyone's anxiety about what's

22:28

going on this year. Is there

22:30

anything that you can give our

22:32

listeners that will reassure them that

22:34

we will know if someone is

22:36

trying to fake something that could impact

22:38

the election? I think first and

22:40

foremost, what we have to realize, and particularly

22:43

for your listeners, is this. There

22:46

are a lot of things that can

22:48

get thrown at election officials. But

22:50

the vast majority of us

22:52

are habitual planners. We plan

22:55

everything out and contingencies

22:57

and backups to our contingencies. And really

22:59

what emerged from this training was that

23:01

when we stick to the fundamentals, when

23:03

we stick to the basics and we

23:05

don't get distracted by the shiny objects,

23:08

we can plow through an election cycle

23:11

regardless of the distractions, regardless of the extra

23:13

stuff that's floating around out there. And we

23:15

can come up with good results, accurate

23:17

results. They may not be as quick as people

23:19

like, oh well. But at the

23:22

end of the day, our elections continue

23:24

to be free and secure and safe

23:26

because we're not falling into the trap

23:28

that all of this extra stuff is

23:31

bringing. And that includes a

23:33

lot of the fear, right? Look

23:35

we've lost a lot of people in election

23:37

administration because of threats, of

23:40

violence and things of this nature. But

23:42

the folks who are coming in are coming

23:45

in eyes wide open. They know that this

23:47

is going to be a rough environment. They

23:49

know that these sorts of things are going

23:51

to be happening. And they're that dedicated to

23:53

preserving and protecting our democracy that

23:55

they want to stick with it. So the fundamentals are solid.

24:00

are some kinds of tips for spotting fakes. Yeah,

24:02

well, first and foremost, get your information about the

24:04

time, place and manner of your elections from trusted

24:06

sources, right? Go to your Secretary of State, go

24:08

to your local elections officials. Don't go to Uncle

24:10

Bob on Facebook because it's probably a problem. The

24:12

other thing too though, if you want to get

24:14

a little more sleuthy and a little bit more

24:16

into the details, if you're

24:18

getting information from .gov websites,

24:20

probably pretty good to go, right?

24:23

If you're getting your information from a lot

24:25

of the campaigns or via text message, you're

24:27

following those links. You got

24:29

to kind of keep your guard up and when

24:32

your guard is up, look for those little weird

24:34

things, right? Look for odd shading in the background

24:36

of the folks. Look for kind of jumpy

24:39

video. Look for, you know, somebody's got eight

24:41

fingers on one of their hands or something

24:43

like that. If you want to get a

24:45

little bit more sleuthy, now do also know

24:47

that there's a lot of networks being set

24:49

up across the United States of America that

24:51

are really looking for these things and

24:53

are going to be putting out these

24:56

warnings when we do see these messages.

24:58

So pay close attention. The trusted sources

25:00

of information are going to keep you

25:02

informed well and we'll issue warnings. So

25:05

look to your, again, Secretaries of State, your local election officials

25:07

at the county level and you're really at this stage

25:09

of the game, you got to know who's running your elections

25:11

locally. So this is one of the

25:13

reasons why I'm not that freaked out. I mean,

25:16

I'm freaked out, but I ultimately have confidence about

25:18

what will happen in November because a reminder like

25:20

you have Adrian Fontes in Arizona. You

25:22

want to talk about battle tested? But you

25:24

have been through from the Maricopa County Recorder

25:27

and the experience in 2020 and

25:30

we have Jocelyn Benson in Michigan. You have

25:32

like strong Secretaries of State and all of

25:34

the battlegrounds and I feel like on the

25:36

Democratic side, like the Trump years have made

25:38

Democrats great, particularly in the States to rally,

25:40

to protect democracy and prepare to do it

25:42

again. But Claire, you looked like you were

25:44

getting ready to ask something. Well, I think

25:47

it's time to have him tell a war

25:49

story or two about the ninja

25:51

folks that rolled into... Oh, the

25:53

cyber ninjas. Yeah. Yeah. And

25:56

it could tell us how that went down. I love it. I

25:58

mean, we watched it from the outside. side,

26:00

but it really appeared like

26:02

just as the circus came to

26:04

town. Give us

26:06

a little sense of the atmosphere in Maricopa

26:08

County after 2020 election. Well,

26:11

the really funny thing, and I'll give you

26:13

the epilogue first, I wasn't actually the Maricopa

26:15

County recorder during the audit. I

26:18

actually lost my reelection bid in 2020. So

26:21

I'll take you quick back to 2018. We

26:23

were redoing the entire election system, 2020. We

26:26

executed and we had that team.

26:29

We had that new system, the new

26:31

processes, the new procedures and everything set up for

26:34

They executed a phenomenal election. And let me

26:36

point this out. The 2020 election

26:39

in Maricopa County is the single

26:41

most highly scrutinized public exercise in

26:43

the history of the world. Okay.

26:46

Everybody on the planet, the congressional

26:49

investigators, we had partisan investigators,

26:51

we had nonprofit investigators, we had journalists from

26:53

all stripes, we had everybody on the planet

26:55

looking at Maricopa County, all the emails, all

26:58

the planning, all the everything. And

27:00

we did a phenomenal job. Not a

27:02

single real issue emerged. I

27:05

was the chief architect of that system. So when

27:07

you say cyber ninja, Claire, man,

27:09

that is a feather in my cap. I

27:11

may get it tattooed on my chest because

27:13

I'm so proud of the result. It

27:16

was crazy. It was insane. Karen

27:19

Fann, the former Senate president, cost

27:21

the state of Arizona. I think the running

27:23

tab at this stage is probably close to

27:25

$15 million, if not a lot more,

27:29

particularly in reputation. But

27:32

at the end of the day, when you

27:34

look at what we did, and you look

27:36

at the performance of the actual work, and you look

27:38

at the results of all these investigations, I'm

27:40

really proud of Maricopa 2020. And

27:43

there isn't anything that the naysayers and those

27:45

guys can say to pull me away from

27:47

that attitude. But what I loved

27:49

was even though they didn't find and even

27:51

though they concluded there were more votes for

27:53

Biden, still the Maricopa County Board of Supervisors

27:55

went back and did a hit for hit

27:57

rebuttal like a 97 page report or something.

28:00

something, our 200-page report for

28:02

about every single charge that

28:05

cyber ninjas made to disprove them. And

28:07

I feel like that experience in 20

28:09

feels like it runs deep with voters

28:11

in Arizona and that, you know, people

28:13

are really on alert for, you know,

28:15

Michigan on the Republican side. The

28:18

truth shall set you free and really good work speaks

28:20

for itself at the end of the day. And

28:22

this is what is important about election administration in

28:24

Arizona. We've been doing it really well for a

28:26

very long time. And if you

28:28

come at us with lies and misinformation and

28:31

conspiracy theories, you're going to get exposed for

28:33

the liar that you are. You're never going

28:35

to win a court case. You're never going

28:37

to win a legitimate challenge because we have

28:39

professionals in all these democratic institutions, in the

28:41

courts, in the election offices, in all of

28:44

our procurement offices. And history will show what

28:46

it has up to this point and will

28:48

continue to show. Arizona's

28:50

elections are not only safe, secure, accountable

28:52

and free. They

28:54

can hold up to the highest levels of scrutiny.

28:56

And so as the chief election officer

28:58

in the Grand Canyon State, I could not be more

29:01

proud, not only of the work that we've done, but

29:03

the work that we are doing right now. And oh,

29:05

by the way, we had a

29:07

statewide election on Tuesday, the 19th of March.

29:10

And what'd you hear about it? Nothing.

29:12

You know why? Because we run great

29:14

elections and the complainers are just going

29:16

to complain when it achieves a political

29:19

end for them and a

29:21

moneymaking end for them. And that's

29:23

their motivation for casting aspersions on our election

29:25

system. So I want to make sure your

29:27

folks understand when you hear the complaints, when

29:30

you hear the conspiracy theories, when you hear

29:32

all this nonsense, understand what the motive of

29:34

the complainers is. They want to make money

29:37

and they want to steal political power. Don't

29:39

fall for it. Yeah. And

29:41

by the way, I think it's

29:43

really important to point out, which

29:46

you just did very eloquently, that

29:48

frankly, the only time people

29:51

complain about how an election

29:53

is run is when

29:55

they've lost. And there's

29:57

a reason for that. And the irony of it is that we're is

30:01

always that all these members of

30:03

Congress that have

30:05

done an incredibly irresponsible

30:07

and unpatriotic thing, which is to

30:10

buy into the big lie, somehow

30:12

the election was

30:14

not fair and free in 2020. They

30:17

all got elected in the same election. They

30:20

were all on the ballot. Many

30:22

of them were on the same ballot

30:25

that they're complaining about. So it

30:27

is, Trump should tell everyone

30:29

all they need to know about

30:31

why Trump devised the big lie

30:33

ahead of the election, why he

30:35

planned the big lie months ahead,

30:37

started talking about the big lie,

30:40

why he continues to lie. And now

30:42

he's doing it again for this cycle.

30:45

He is saying the same thing

30:47

now that he said four years

30:49

ago, which is if I don't

30:51

win, then somebody cheated because I

30:53

can't lose. That is

30:56

the total position of

30:58

a loser. I mean, with a

31:00

big L on his forehead. Well, you know, the

31:02

funny thing about that, I tracked with Donald Trump.

31:05

We both won in 16. We both lost in

31:07

20. Here's the big difference. In

31:09

2020, when Stephen Richard, the new county

31:11

recorder, took my spot, I invited him

31:13

in. I had a tour

31:15

with him and I introduced

31:17

him to the staff and we went through and

31:20

looked at all the systems. And so regardless of

31:22

the way he campaigned against me, regardless

31:24

of the fact that he won, I welcomed

31:26

him in because that's how you America

31:29

when it comes to these elected offices, you

31:31

are supposed to peacefully transfer the power because

31:33

the power doesn't belong to the individual, it

31:35

belongs to the people and disrespecting

31:37

the American people and disrespecting

31:40

the American voters. The

31:42

way some of these folks have really,

31:45

really is telling. And I think that's what

31:47

we need to stand on is that dignity

31:49

that we owe to the folks that put

31:52

us in these spots. Listen,

31:54

we were thrilled to have you today and we hope

31:56

that you will come back, especially if

31:58

you see anything going on. on out there

32:00

in terms of these deep fakes in the lead

32:02

up to the election. We'd love you to give

32:05

us a shout so we can

32:07

continue to sound a warning bell that

32:09

people need to pay attention, that what

32:11

they may be seeing may not be real. Thank

32:13

you for taking the time today to go over this

32:16

with us. We were really thrilled to have you. Well,

32:18

Claire, great to meet you. Thank you so much for

32:20

your prior service and what you're doing now. And Jen,

32:22

always good to see you again. Yeah, it's great to

32:24

see you. Thank you so much. We're going

32:26

to take a quick break. But when we're back,

32:29

RFJ Jr. has picked up the ball as the

32:31

third party spoiler. He picked up that ball and

32:33

was running with it back in a moment. When

32:41

booking with other vacation rental labs, it

32:43

sounds like this. This

32:46

place doesn't look like the pictures. Come on. The

32:48

doors are on back. Is

32:52

there a door behind all those spiders? It's

32:58

time to try one that sounds more like a

33:00

vacation. Look

33:03

at how many spiders there aren't. Where

33:05

should we lie down for eight consecutive hours

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Get one month free when you

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sign up at greenlight.com/podcast. Welcome

33:44

back. We just spent some time on

33:46

concerns over using generative AI to spread

33:48

misinformation. There is another cautionary

33:50

tale we want to dig in today and this

33:52

one is very real. We want

33:54

to put the spotlight today briefly on

33:57

RFK Jr. He is in

33:59

this race. And his

34:01

presence is very frustrating to not only

34:03

all the people in America that support

34:05

Joe Biden, but I think it's very

34:08

frustrating to his family. And

34:10

it really has the potential to

34:12

hand this election to Donald J. Trump.

34:14

If you listened last week, you'll

34:17

remember we talked about the former Trump voters

34:19

who have soured on him and looking for

34:21

a new outsider. Some people

34:23

think RFK is it, but it's

34:26

not just Republicans, it's Democrats too. And

34:28

you see this a lot in California,

34:30

I see it reflected in polling in

34:33

California, I see it anecdotally in California.

34:35

He's a big anti-vaxxer, there's been an

34:37

element of that in the Democratic Party

34:39

prior to COVID. And he

34:41

has appeal on what he's talking

34:43

about with some Democrats, as well

34:45

as just sort of the name

34:47

and just this notion as an

34:49

outsider. So RFK's family,

34:51

he is Bobby Kennedy's son. He

34:53

is that. The

34:56

family has, I think, just

34:58

about everyone. There might be

35:00

one cousin who's helping RFK,

35:02

but otherwise they have all rallied

35:04

around Biden. They did this

35:07

photo at the White House on St. Patrick's

35:09

Day with dozens of them to show support

35:11

for Biden. By the way, the Democratic Party

35:13

has started a little war room about third

35:15

party candidates and to help define RFK Jr.

35:17

and they have put Liz Smith in charge

35:20

of this. And let me tell you what,

35:22

have you ever dealt with her, Claire? She

35:24

is a killer. She worked in

35:26

my 2006 Senate campaign. She

35:29

is a killer. RFK will rue the day that

35:31

Liz Smith got assigned to go in after him.

35:33

But anyway, let's talk a little bit about what

35:35

he's actually for. Yeah, well, first,

35:37

I think the family members, if I

35:39

were in the room, I think one

35:41

thing we need to spotlight is how

35:43

powerful the family is collectively against Robert

35:46

F. Kennedy Jr. And

35:48

them going to the White House this early

35:50

signals that they are willing to do things

35:53

to be helpful. I will tell you, I

35:55

don't care what RFK Jr. does

35:57

or says if Caroline Kennedy goes

36:00

a camera that is a

36:02

very, very powerful voice. She

36:05

is seared into people's

36:07

brains as the legacy

36:09

of the Kennedy family in many ways. Not

36:12

that there aren't other family members that are

36:14

amazing, but she really is an amazing woman.

36:17

And I think if she speaks out, and

36:19

her son is really something too. I worked

36:21

with him on the Profiles

36:23

in Courage Award at the Kennedy Library

36:25

and had an opportunity to spend some

36:27

time with him. I think they will

36:30

get involved. I hope they'll get involved and I think

36:32

that'll make a big difference. You

36:34

know, he is wacky. His

36:36

claim to fame has been

36:38

fighting vaccines and erroneously

36:40

stating that there's some

36:42

science that vaccines cause

36:45

autism. And he's said other

36:47

crazy wacky things that

36:49

are not healthy for our country

36:51

or respectful of science. And

36:53

I feel like that he is a

36:56

spoiler. I looked

36:58

at all the polls. And frankly, if you

37:00

look at the polling, when you do

37:02

head to head with Biden and Trump,

37:04

and then you add in Kennedy and

37:06

Stein and West, in those polls, you

37:08

see actually him taking a few more

37:10

points, one or two more points from

37:13

Biden than Trump. And they've got to

37:15

flip that. They've got to make sure

37:17

that if he's in the race in

37:19

some of these states, that he takes

37:21

more votes from Trump than he takes

37:23

from Biden. And obviously, we've got to also

37:25

worry about Cornel West and Stein.

37:27

They are also dangerous in

37:30

these swing states where it's going to be

37:32

really, really razor close. And, you know, abortion

37:35

for Democratic voters, abortion will be a

37:37

vulnerability for him. He had said that

37:41

he supported a national abortion ban. He

37:43

tries to go back on that. So

37:46

that is for the Democratic voters, that's

37:48

a vulnerability for him. But,

37:50

you know, he's polling at like 14, 15% right now.

37:54

So no one's tried to define him right

37:56

now. He's an empty vessel. And if you

37:58

say like I don't like either. choice, you

38:00

can say you're for him and it sounds like

38:02

a good option. I think the Democrats

38:04

will have to define him and then

38:07

there's just gonna have to be eight months of messaging about

38:09

a vote for him as a vote for Trump. And I,

38:11

you know, so if you can like shrink this down to

38:13

single digits from 14% to, you know, five or three

38:17

percent, great, but five or three

38:19

percent is a lot in

38:21

these battlegrounds. So this is a

38:23

very big threat. Yeah, and currently

38:25

he's on the ballot in a

38:27

couple of states that really matter,

38:29

Nevada and New Hampshire. Those are

38:32

two states that the team at the DNC

38:34

needs to focus on. At this point, there

38:37

is a group that's supporting him

38:39

that's trying to get ballot access

38:41

and they are trying to prioritize

38:43

another few states that are very

38:45

important. That would be Arizona, Georgia

38:47

and Michigan. Those are

38:49

the states where they could really have

38:51

a huge impact on what happens here

38:54

and really throw this country

38:56

into a constitutional crisis if

38:59

in fact the election had to go to

39:01

the House of Representatives. And you know, by

39:03

the way, before we leave this topic and

39:05

get on the basketball track here for the

39:08

rest of the weekend, yay! I think his

39:10

selection of vice president is gonna tell a

39:12

lot about who this guy is. The idea

39:14

that Aaron Rogers, you know, whether they get

39:16

a microdose in a black cave somewhere, I

39:19

don't know. You know, is this gonna be the party

39:21

that brings you LSD and cold

39:24

plunges? I don't know what the hell

39:27

that is. You know, and Jesse Ventura

39:29

once again. And then now they're

39:31

talking about a woman that literally

39:33

has zero experience

39:35

who funded his Super Bowl

39:38

ad, who has a lot of

39:40

money. She was married to one of the founders

39:42

of Google. I don't have anything against this woman.

39:44

I'm sure she's perfectly smart. I know she's a

39:46

lawyer. I don't mean to diss her because she

39:48

is a young woman. But I don't

39:50

think she fully comprehends the meat

39:53

grinder she is stepping into. And

39:56

when you step into a meat grinder

39:58

like this with no experience, is with

40:00

a meat grinder, it gets ugly. And

40:02

I have a feeling this could get

40:04

really ugly. Yeah, and it

40:06

seems like it's light. I don't know who knows, but

40:09

he's going to announce his running

40:11

mate in Oakland and that's where she's from. She

40:13

can finance him though. So it is

40:15

like, this is a for real deal,

40:17

people. This is like four alarm fire.

40:19

Got to pay attention. I think we

40:21

should close with this tells you what

40:23

you need to know about RFK Jr.

40:25

When he was asked about the in

40:27

vitro fertilization issue coming out of Alabama,

40:30

let me tell you his quote, I

40:32

don't know, you tell me what

40:35

should I be doing? Not

40:37

exactly a quote that you let

40:40

us start a presidential campaign with.

40:45

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