0:00

Hi, everyone.

0:00

Welcome to the next episode of

0:02

the Bay Street capital holdings

0:02

podcast titled, How do you do

0:05

it? And why should I care? This

0:05

series aims to highlight women

0:09

doing amazing work in various

0:09

industries. So today, we are so

0:12

lucky to be joined by marchais.

0:12

Pratt, who's the Diversity,

0:15

Equity and Inclusion leader. Hi,

0:15

Marshea, lovely to have you on

0:18

the show.

0:19

Hello, thank you

0:19

so much for having me.

0:21

So let's dive

0:21

straight into the questions.

0:23

Let's start off with an

0:23

introduction as to who you are,

0:25

and perhaps the main answer to

0:25

the question, which is, How'd

0:29

You Do It & Why Should I Care?

0:31

Oh, wow. Okay, so

0:31

my name is Marshea Pratt, and I

0:35

was born and raised in

0:35

California, where I currently

0:37

live. I work for a university, a

0:37

private university, and I'm a

0:41

diversity, equity and inclusion

0:41

leader across all three of our

0:44

campuses. And who am I am a

0:44

mother, I am a podcast host of

0:50

black and brave, I am a social

0:50

justice advocate. And why should

0:53

you care because diversity is

0:53

good for business. And it's also

0:57

good for our world. And the more

0:57

that we can do to make each

1:00

other feel a sense of welcome

1:00

and belonging, the better our

1:03

world and our lives are going to be.

1:05

Excellent. So what

1:05

inspired you to join the field

1:08

of diversity, equity and

1:08

inclusion was a specific

1:11

experience that you had? Or was

1:11

it a combination of experiences?

1:15

Yes, so I have

1:15

always cared about these types

1:20

of issues, because they directly

1:20

impacted me, you know, ever

1:23

since probably third grade, I've

1:23

experienced some kind of racial

1:27

injustice, whether it was people

1:27

using the N word against me,

1:31

people putting pipe bombs in my

1:31

home, mailbox in front of my

1:35

home, because they didn't want

1:35

black people to live in their

1:38

neighborhood, those kinds of

1:38

things. So I always had, what I

1:43

would call like a righteous

1:43

anger about these kinds of

1:45

things. But I, when I was a

1:45

child, I didn't know what I

1:47

could do about it, I felt very

1:47

helpless. And as I got older, I

1:51

discovered that there were

1:51

opportunities for me to speak up

1:55

and to advocate for equality and

1:55

for justice. And so when I got

2:00

into college, I got involved in

2:00

student clubs. And when I

2:03

graduated, I wanted to pursue it

2:03

as a profession. And so I

2:06

started volunteering for local

2:06

organizations for my alma mater,

2:12

and their diversity, equity and

2:12

inclusion work. And over time, I

2:18

really just developed a love for

2:18

it, even though the work is very

2:20

hard. And it can be more hard

2:20

work than hard work, because

2:24

you're really examining your own

2:24

biases, and at the same time

2:28

that you're trying to bridge

2:28

gaps between other people. So it

2:31

can be very challenging, but

2:31

it's very rewarding. Just

2:34

bringing people together,

2:34

debunking myths and stereotypes,

2:37

I just love all of that. So

2:37

that's what really drew me to it

2:40

and keeps me going with it.

2:42

Amazing. And as

2:42

with much of diversity, equity

2:45

and inclusion work, you're

2:45

working with a lot of different

2:47

groups of people. So I'm curious

2:47

for those experiences that you

2:50

hadn't been through. And, you

2:50

know, you had to help people

2:53

through what were the best

2:53

resources or helped you along

2:55

the way.

2:57

I think the first

2:57

thing that I did is I made sure

3:00

that I was responsible for my

3:00

own learning. I think a lot of

3:03

times when we're curious about

3:03

people that are different, we go

3:07

to those people expecting them,

3:07

to educate us and to teach us

3:10

what we need to know when really

3:10

the resources are out there for

3:13

us to do our own exploration,

3:13

which I think is more of an

3:16

adventure and more fun to learn

3:16

that way. So I spent a lot of

3:19

time seeking out opportunities

3:19

to learn about other people

3:22

listening to podcasts, reading

3:22

books, going to art shows, going

3:26

to dramatic plays, and operas

3:26

and things like that just

3:29

absorbing as much of the culture

3:29

as I could eating different

3:32

foods at different restaurants,

3:32

and things like that, just

3:35

really learning as much as I

3:35

could about other people

3:38

listening to thought leaders in

3:38

this area who are already doing

3:41

the work that I dreamed of doing

3:41

and following them on social

3:44

media, just really exposing

3:44

myself and getting involved in

3:48

the culture, not just reading

3:48

about it, but actually taking

3:50

action joining committees

3:50

getting engaged. And so one of

3:54

the organizations that I joined

3:54

right away was the national

3:57

conference for race and

3:57

ethnicity. It's called Incore.

4:01

It's based in Oklahoma in the

4:01

United States, and they have an

4:04

annual conference every summer

4:04

that is just phenomenal. And

4:07

everybody that's anybody in the

4:07

Diversity, Equity and Inclusion

4:10

world speaks at this conference,

4:10

or does webinars related to the

4:14

conference. So that's where I

4:14

learned quite a bit of what I'm

4:16

applying now. The second group

4:16

that I joined is called

4:20

belonging at work. And it's

4:20

curated by a wonderful

4:23

transgender man named Rhodes

4:23

Perry. And he creates these 30

4:28

day challenges that you can take

4:28

in different areas of dei in

4:31

order to really expand your

4:31

knowledge, as well as get to

4:36

know other people that are at

4:36

different spaces and places in

4:39

the DEI journey. So not only was

4:39

I able to learn more, but I was

4:43

able to build a professional

4:43

network and that has really

4:45

helped me also

4:47

amazing and it

4:47

seems like you were pretty much

4:49

a go getter. As you mentioned,

4:49

you are responsible for your own

4:52

learning, but were there any

4:52

lessons that you wish you would

4:54

have known before starting in this field?

4:57

Yes, first of

4:57

all, I thought If this was going

5:00

to be a lot easier, then then it

5:00

really is I thought, Oh, I'm

5:04

just gonna take a few courses,

5:04

it's just gonna be like a

5:06

college class, you take a few

5:06

core courses and you apply it.

5:10

And what I didn't realize is

5:10

that diversity, equity and

5:12

inclusion is really a dynamic

5:12

field. And it changes all the

5:16

time, there's always new

5:16

terminology, there's always new

5:20

ways of looking at problems and

5:20

ways to resolve them. So I had

5:24

to be a lot more resourceful

5:24

than I thought, and I there, you

5:28

really never master this, this

5:28

is something that's kind of

5:31

ongoing learning. It's not like

5:31

you take one test, and all of a

5:35

sudden, you are a DI champion,

5:35

and you know, everything. It's a

5:38

constant, refreshing renewal of

5:38

your mind, and also trying on

5:43

new things that might make you

5:43

uncomfortable at first. So it's

5:46

really just embracing the fear

5:46

that might come up when you're

5:51

doing something new. I also

5:51

didn't realize that I can learn

5:55

so much from my mistakes and

5:55

failures. I was thinking to

5:59

myself originally, if I call

5:59

someone by the wrong pronoun, or

6:04

I use the wrong term, when I'm

6:04

explaining a diversity, equity

6:08

and inclusion principle that I

6:08

will all of a sudden lose

6:11

credibility, and no one will

6:11

want to listen to me and that

6:13

kind of thing. And I felt kind

6:13

of a sense of shame and

6:16

embarrassment, whenever I would

6:16

make mistakes. And it was really

6:20

other dei practitioners that

6:20

said, you know, it just means

6:22

you're human. You know, you're

6:22

not expected to memorize all

6:25

these things. You know, it

6:25

really comes with practice. And

6:29

you have to have a certain

6:29

amount of grace for yourself and

6:31

for other people, because these

6:31

are hard concepts to understand.

6:34

And you're sometimes unlearning

6:34

a lot of things that people have

6:39

touched you or said to you or

6:39

expected you to uphold for

6:42

years. So to do that kind of

6:42

unlearning, it takes time. So

6:46

the third thing that I learned

6:46

is to be incredibly patient,

6:49

with myself and with others,

6:49

because these are sometimes for

6:53

some people, these are very hard

6:53

concepts for them to wrap their

6:55

brain around and to start practicing.

6:57

Definitely. And you

6:57

mentioned is one of the two

7:00

lessons, three lessons that you

7:00

wish you would have known for

7:03

starting in the industry that

7:03

you can learn a lot from your

7:05

failures. So I'm curious, what

7:05

in your career was your biggest

7:09

failure? And what did you learn from it?

7:11

Oh, my goodness.

7:11

So when I first got into this, I

7:15

was very arrogant, I want to be

7:15

very transparent, and say that I

7:18

thought I knew everything. And I

7:18

walked into a meeting to do a

7:22

training and proceeded to give

7:22

off that air of arrogance, as I

7:28

was talking to people as if I

7:28

was the only one that learned

7:35

something that day, and they

7:35

were going to learn it from me,

7:37

versus going into it with a

7:37

collaborative mindset thinking,

7:41

I'm here not only to serve these

7:41

folks and give them the

7:44

education and information

7:44

they're coming for, but also for

7:47

me to learn from them and their

7:47

responses and their feedback.

7:51

And so I think it was quite

7:51

embarrassing when I was pulled

7:55

to the side midway through this

7:55

training by a very good

7:59

colleague who was very brave to

7:59

come to me and say, you know,

8:02

you really need to check your

8:02

privilege. And I said, What do

8:05

you mean? And she said, you

8:05

know, you're coming in here

8:07

acting like, you know,

8:07

everything, when really we have

8:09

things to teach you as well. So

8:09

you really need to dial it back.

8:13

And I took a deep breath, and I

8:13

thought, Oh, my God, am I the

8:17

person that I'm trying not to be

8:17

like, what what am I doing? A

8:21

teacher is also a learner,

8:21

you're a student first, and then

8:24

a teacher. So quickly, I changed

8:24

I apologized to the group. And I

8:28

started again, with concepts

8:28

that I was teaching and gave

8:31

them more space to speak. And

8:31

for me to respond rather than me

8:36

just lecturing the whole time,

8:36

it was so much better. And I

8:39

learned so much from that

8:39

experience. So now when I go

8:41

forward, and I talk to people

8:41

about these concepts, it's more

8:45

of a discussion and a

8:45

conversation rather than a

8:47

lecture.

8:48

That's good. And

8:48

what advice would you give to

8:50

somebody who is wanting to

8:50

pursue a career similar to

8:53

yours?

8:55

I would say don't

8:55

be afraid for it. Don't let fear

8:58

stop you work, work with fear,

8:58

sit in it and work with it,

9:02

because that's really going to

9:02

propel you into the things that

9:04

you're most curious about. So in

9:04

my situation, I was thinking to

9:09

myself, Okay, I didn't go to

9:09

school for this. I don't have a

9:12

degree so to speak, and

9:12

diversity, equity and inclusion,

9:14

I just have a passion for it.

9:14

That's all I just have a heart

9:17

and a passion for it. What can I

9:17

do with that? And I thought, you

9:20

know, let me seek out people who

9:20

are doing the work that I really

9:24

want to do and doing it with

9:24

excellence. And let me reach out

9:27

to them and let them know, hey,

9:27

I want to make an impact like

9:30

you're making what advice would

9:30

you give me? What resources

9:33

could you share? Would you mind

9:33

if I did an informational

9:36

interview with you, you know,

9:36

those types of things? And not

9:38

everyone said yes, but the

9:38

majority did say yes. And that's

9:41

how I was able to figure out who

9:41

in this industry I can learn

9:45

from what are the podcast and

9:45

conferences and other things

9:50

that I could get involved with

9:50

to just get started with my

9:53

learning and that's really where

9:53

it begins. It's really about

9:56

your passion areas are so much

9:56

to do. This beyond race, gender

10:02

and class, there are so many

10:02

different aspects of this, that

10:05

you could find your niche of

10:05

what you're interested in, and

10:08

then just pursue it. You don't

10:08

necessarily have to go to school

10:11

for it. But you do need to build

10:11

a network of people that will

10:14

hold you accountable, but also

10:14

help uplift you because this

10:16

work is really challenging.

10:18

Definitely. And you

10:18

also mentioned there's a lot of

10:21

myths in this industry. So what

10:21

is one common myth about your

10:24

field that you would like to

10:24

debunk right here right now?

10:27

Yes, I would love

10:27

to debunk the myth that only

10:31

people from marginalized

10:31

identities have any business

10:34

involved in diversity, equity

10:34

and inclusion work. And while

10:40

you will see that the field is

10:40

predominantly full of people who

10:44

identify for marginalized

10:44

identities, we need everyone at

10:49

the table for this discussion,

10:49

diversity, equity, and inclusion

10:53

is everyone. Inclusion means

10:53

everyone. So don't feel that

10:56

just because you may come from a

10:56

point of privilege that that

11:00

can't be leveraged for diversity

11:00

to flourish. Everybody plays a

11:05

role at the table. We can't do

11:05

this with just one group or two

11:08

groups or three groups, we need

11:08

everyone. So don't let your

11:11

identities that you hold and the

11:11

privilege that you may hold stop

11:14

you from thinking that you have

11:14

a place in this work, because we

11:18

all have to do our part.

11:18

Otherwise, it's not going to be

11:20

successful.

11:21

Definitely. And

11:21

then more about you what have

11:23

you read or listened to recently

11:23

that's really inspired you.

11:27

I am reading a

11:27

phenomenal book called just as I

11:30

am by the actress Cicely Tyson.

11:30

She was in her 90s. And it takes

11:35

you through her life from when

11:35

she was a baby all the way

11:38

through the early 90s. So it's

11:38

nine decades of wisdom, and

11:44

challenges, and just a lot of

11:44

uplifting stories about how

11:49

resilient she is and how much

11:49

she learned from the different

11:54

experiences that she went

11:54

through that helped inform the

11:57

way that she used her art in

11:57

order to heal herself and to

12:01

heal other people. It is a

12:01

phenomenal book.

12:04

Wonderful. And

12:04

following on from that, who are

12:06

three people in your life who

12:06

have been the most influential

12:09

to you?

12:10

Oh, my goodness,

12:10

I have to narrow it to three.

12:13

Let me see. I would say my

12:13

mother first and foremost, just

12:18

a short story about her. When my

12:18

mother was 13 years old, her

12:21

dress caught on fire. And she

12:21

was burned over 80% of her body.

12:25

And she spent two years in a

12:25

hospital in a Stryker bed. And

12:30

for those that don't know what a

12:30

Stryker bed is, it's a bed that

12:33

you're strapped into, that kind

12:33

of looks like a wheel that a

12:37

mouse would run on. And you're

12:37

strapped into it, and they

12:40

rotate you every couple of

12:40

degrees so that you have can

12:45

maintain circulation in your

12:45

body. So 26 surgeries later,

12:49

they told my mom that she would

12:49

never graduate from school that

12:53

she would never be able to

12:53

become a scientist that she

12:57

would never have a child. And

12:57

she told them no, I'm going to

13:00

go to school. I'm going to be

13:00

the valedictorian, I'm going to

13:02

become a scientist, and I'm

13:02

going to have a daughter, and

13:05

she did all three. So my mother

13:05

definitely is my number one

13:09

inspiration. My second would be

13:09

my daughter, who is one of the

13:14

most caring and empathetic

13:14

people you would ever meet. And

13:18

she's absolutely fearless. She

13:18

wants what she wants. And she

13:21

wants it now. And she's

13:21

incredibly driven. So I really

13:24

am inspired by her. And then

13:24

third, I would say it was a

13:28

college professor who's no

13:28

longer with us who talked me out

13:32

of dropping out of school, I was

13:32

doing very poorly in his class,

13:35

because I didn't really

13:35

understand how to write a

13:38

college paper I thought I knew,

13:38

but I consistently got bad

13:42

grades in his class. And I went

13:42

to his class, his office hours

13:45

one day. And I said, you know,

13:45

Dr. Hanson, I am coming to drop

13:50

out of your class and actually

13:50

dropped out of school because I

13:53

just don't think I can do this.

13:53

I thought I was a good writer. I

13:59

wanted to be an English major,

13:59

really badly. But this is my

14:02

first English class, and I'm

14:02

just failing miserably. So I

14:05

don't want to waste your time. I

14:05

don't want to waste my time, I'm

14:07

just going to drop out. And he

14:07

said, Absolutely not. He was I

14:11

will not let you do that. And in

14:11

fact, I am going to teach you

14:16

what is missing in your papers

14:16

so that you can be successful as

14:21

a writer, you are incredibly

14:21

talented. You are a diamond in

14:24

the rough. All you need is a

14:24

little bit of pressure in time

14:27

and you're going to be

14:27

phenomenal in my class. So no,

14:30

you're not going to drop out of school and you're not going to drop out of this class. And I

14:31

just was kind of looking at him

14:36

like What do you mean, you can't

14:36

tell me not to drop out like,

14:39

You're not the boss of me,

14:39

right? How dare you drop out? He

14:43

said, No, you have too much

14:43

potential. I'm not gonna let you

14:45

drop. You're gonna work hard and

14:45

you're going to do well. And

14:49

sure enough, I went from being

14:49

on academic probation to the

14:53

Dean's List by the time I was

14:53

done with college. So that

14:55

particular professor really just

14:55

taught me that you know,

14:59

sometimes they do just takes one

14:59

person to tell you that you can

15:02

do this to believe in you and to

15:02

motivate you to be the best that

15:06

you're truly capable of you just

15:06

sometimes you can't see it for

15:09

yourself, someone has to show it to you.

15:11

Amazing. And then

15:11

finally, to wrap up our

15:13

conversation, what is one piece

15:13

of advice that you wish you gave

15:17

yourself at any point in your life?

15:19

Oh, I think the

15:19

most important thing I wish I

15:23

would have said to my much

15:23

younger self was to remove toxic

15:27

people, places and things from

15:27

your life immediately. Don't

15:31

waste time with people who are

15:31

not willing to invest in you and

15:34

care for you the way that you deserve.

15:36

Yeah, no, I

15:36

definitely agree. Life is too

15:39

short to toxic relationships.

15:42

Yes, yes. I think

15:42

if I would have removed a couple

15:45

of few people out of my life, I

15:45

definitely wouldn't have gone

15:48

through as many hardships as I

15:48

did. So I've learned from that.

15:51

And I've also learned something

15:51

else that life is very short.

15:56

And when you really love and

15:56

care for people, you need to let

15:59

them know. Don't assume that

15:59

they know that you care

16:02

definitely express it. There was

16:02

someone really close in my life

16:05

that was in my life one minute

16:05

and two weeks later passed away.

16:10

And fortunately for our

16:10

relationship, I was able to

16:13

share with that person that I

16:13

cared for them deeply before

16:17

they passed on. But what if I

16:17

wouldn't have had that chance?

16:19

You know, it just so happened

16:19

that I was lucky, and I got a

16:22

chance to say it. So don't let

16:22

those opportunities pass by when

16:25

someone is gracious to you. When

16:25

someone loves you and cares

16:28

about you, and really touches

16:28

you in a powerful way. Let them

16:31

know let them know immediately.

16:31

Don't Don't let that moment pass

16:34

by.

16:35

Definitely. Well,

16:35

once again, thank you so much,

16:37

Marshea for taking the time to

16:37

speak with me. I really

16:40

appreciate your time.

16:41

Absolutely. It was my pleasure.

16:43

Alright then bye bye