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Hi, everyone.

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Welcome to the next episode of

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the Bay Street Capital Holdings

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podcast titled How'd You Do It &

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Why Should I Care? This series

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aims to highlight women doing

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amazing work in various

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industries. So today, we are so

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lucky to be joined by Tania

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DeSa, who is CEO of DSR Global

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Leadership. Hi Tania, lovely to

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have you on the show.

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You too. Oh, thank

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you so much. I'm great. It's

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great to be here.

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Pretty amazing. Oh,

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I'm so happy that you're here.

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So let's first jump into the

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questions, I guess. So let's

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have a quick introduction about

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yourself and perhaps an answer

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to the main question of the

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podcast, which is How'd you do

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it and why should I care?

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Oh I love that.

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Let's dive right in. So my name

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is Tania DeSa, coming to you

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from Toronto, Canada, regular

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we're based CEO of Desa Global

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Leadership, and who I am many

0:46

different roles and titles and

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parts of my identity, CEO, woman

0:52

of color, keynote speaker, all

0:52

of those things. But really, why

0:58

should you care? Let me link to

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my life purpose, my mission,

1:02

which is I'm on a mission to

1:02

inspire women and

1:05

underrepresented minorities, to

1:05

find that voice of visibility in

1:10

corporate environments. So that

1:10

the end of the day, they're

1:12

coming to work, feeling fired

1:12

up, engaged, and connected, and

1:17

they're getting promoted, we

1:17

want to see more diversity and

1:20

executive levels in corporate

1:20

America, corporate environments

1:24

across the globe. So linking

1:24

into why you should care is

1:31

whether you are a family member

1:31

of somebody, you know, you have

1:36

a daughter, or sister, or a

1:36

mother, or a person of color is

1:42

in your life in we should all

1:42

care about how we're all showing

1:45

up at work. And we all have a

1:45

role to play when it comes to

1:48

diversity, equity and inclusion,

1:48

whether you're part of an

1:51

underrepresented minority group,

1:51

or you're an ally, we all have a

1:55

role to play. And linking in to

1:55

my personal story. There was

2:00

many years where I was in a

2:00

corporate environment where I

2:03

felt invisible. I felt like I

2:03

wanted to make an impact. And I

2:09

was not seen and heard. And it

2:09

felt lonely. For a lot of years,

2:15

it felt really soul sucking. And

2:15

it was living through that I

2:21

realized we have to do things a

2:21

better way, there can be a

2:24

better way. And so that's kind

2:24

of what lit the fire into

2:28

leaving my corporate job and

2:28

moving into this

2:31

entrepreneurial, wild world,

2:31

starting a business where that

2:35

is the mission to help people be

2:35

seen and heard in corporate

2:38

environments.

2:39

That's such a lovely message. And I think that that inspiration definitely

2:42

comes across in the way you

2:44

speak about your company. So I'm

2:44

curious, what were the best

2:47

resources that helped you become

2:47

an entrepreneur and start your

2:49

own company?

2:50

No. So you know, one

2:50

of the things when I was in

2:52

corporate there was a wonderful

2:52

book that I read by Martha Beck.

2:56

It's called Finding Your Own

2:56

North Star. And it was almost

2:58

like a workbook, I felt like she

2:58

was my personal coach, as I was

3:01

reading this book, going through

3:01

it really taking time to reflect

3:05

on how I was feeling linking

3:05

into why I was there in that

3:10

particular role, what my impact

3:10

was. So it was an incredible

3:14

resource at the right moment in

3:14

time, where it guided me into

3:19

thinking about what is the

3:19

impact? I want to have, you

3:22

know, short term and long term,

3:22

the end of the day, what do I

3:26

really want to be known for. And

3:26

I found going through that self

3:31

discovery process through the

3:31

tools and the advice of Martha

3:35

Beck really helped me put a

3:35

leadership stake in the sand,

3:39

and pivot from leaving a

3:39

corporate environment to taking

3:44

on risk and believing in myself

3:44

that I could do it. And also

3:50

understanding that

3:50

entrepreneurship is kind of a

3:52

series of experiments, right?

3:52

You have to be willing to dive

3:56

in to try something new to risk

3:56

failure to realize that failure

4:02

can propel you and leapfrog you

4:02

to where you want to go next.

4:06

It's like highs and lows. It's a

4:06

huge roller coaster. But if

4:09

you're up for that, and that

4:09

excites you, then it's

4:11

definitely a playground to plan.

4:14

Definitely I definitely agree that about entrepreneurship as well. You've

4:16

got to be ready to take that

4:18

risk to jump into what could be

4:18

a failure or what could be an

4:21

ultimate success. So I really

4:21

admire you for that. And, you

4:25

know, it seems like you read

4:25

quite a lot before you entered

4:28

into the entrepreneurship space.

4:28

But I'm curious, what are any

4:31

lessons that you wish you would have known before starting your own company?

4:35

Yeah, you know, I

4:35

think there's a few number one

4:38

is, I think sometimes when we

4:38

make the leap between stable job

4:43

or getting a paycheck every day,

4:43

you know, we have colleagues we

4:47

don't many of us go into an

4:47

office or now maybe a remote or

4:50

virtual office, but there are

4:50

people to connect with. I didn't

4:54

realize I used to think that had

4:54

to be one or the other, right.

4:58

You're either in corporate or

4:58

you're in entrepreneur, but

5:00

there is this middle ground

5:00

where you can have a side

5:03

hustle, you can test out your

5:03

ideas, you can pilot programs,

5:07

you can start to dabble your toe

5:07

in the world of

5:10

entrepreneurship, while still

5:10

having the safety net of it a

5:13

potential full time job or a

5:13

part time job. So I wish I had

5:16

known that that was an option

5:16

that I couldn't experimented and

5:20

tested things out how realistic

5:20

that would have been for me with

5:23

time, energy and the amount that

5:23

I traveled, I honestly don't

5:26

know. But it was nice to know

5:26

that there is an option. The

5:29

second thing I realized is that

5:29

you need to have a support

5:33

network, you know, when you're

5:33

making a shift, and I think this

5:36

is in the entrepreneurial world,

5:36

but in any career, you know,

5:41

whether you're brand new and

5:41

early in your career journey, or

5:45

you're middle management, going

5:45

into executive leadership

5:47

positions in the corporate

5:47

world, we need to have peeps in

5:52

our corner, we need to have

5:52

cheerleaders and advocates and

5:55

mentors and sponsors, we need to

5:55

have a support network. And

5:59

there's huge value in creating

5:59

that for yourself. And I think

6:02

there's, I like to think of it

6:02

as my board, my personal board

6:05

of directors, right? There's

6:05

going to be some friends that I

6:09

can talk to and bounce ideas off

6:09

of, there's going to be mentors,

6:12

who are a few steps ahead of me

6:12

who can give me advice, there's

6:16

going to be sponsors who can

6:16

talk about me in rooms that I am

6:20

not in yet. They can champion

6:20

for me, but you need all those

6:24

people around the table cheering

6:24

you on or challenging you when

6:28

you least expect it. And so

6:28

there's value in very

6:32

intentionally building that

6:32

roundtable or that network that

6:37

thinks is key. I wish I had

6:37

known that earlier. And it's

6:41

something I'm very intentional

6:41

about now. So,

6:45

ya know that I definitely agree the power of the network is so so underrated,

6:47

I think because like people will

6:51

think Oh, you must network with

6:51

people who are farther on in

6:53

your career, but like their

6:53

career, but actually, you know,

6:56

your peers are your best

6:56

network. And also those who are

6:59

up and coming in their career

6:59

are also so useful. You can

7:02

learn a lot from people. And

7:02

yeah, I think people need to

7:05

notice that as well.

7:07

Lately, you're also talking about something so important peer mentorship, and

7:09

reverse mentoring, right? Who

7:12

says, Being newer in your career

7:12

journey, you can advise a vice

7:17

president on tech or social

7:17

media, SEO, that there's so many

7:20

things we can give to each other

7:20

and make that value added

7:24

relationships. I love that.

7:25

Definitely. And the

7:25

following on from that you

7:28

mentioned, you touched on this a

7:28

little earlier when talking

7:30

about entrepreneurship. But what

7:30

would you say was your biggest

7:32

failure in your career? And what

7:32

did you learn from it?

7:37

My biggest failure,

7:37

in a way was staying too long in

7:42

a role that wasn't serving me. I

7:42

thought I had my dream job. And

7:46

my last corporate role, I was

7:46

running a big marketing

7:49

department for a big American

7:49

health care company in

7:51

Switzerland. And I thought, Oh,

7:51

I made it, you know, this is it.

7:57

And it sounds amazing. And it

7:57

was doing really cool projects.

8:00

And I did love my colleagues.

8:00

But slowly, I started to look

8:06

around. And I realized that in

8:06

many rooms, I was the youngest.

8:10

I was the only female on the

8:10

management team. I was the only

8:14

visible minority and I was the

8:14

only North American on this

8:17

really panEuropean team felt

8:17

lonely. And I realized like it

8:22

started, it was starting to

8:22

weigh on me and feel so heavy,

8:26

day after day after day, and I

8:26

probably stayed longer than I

8:31

should have. It took a toll on

8:31

my health, it took a toll on the

8:34

relationships in my life. And I

8:34

wish I had had the courage to

8:39

make a move sooner. But I think

8:39

we all learn something from

8:43

those experiences, like failure

8:43

is just an opportunity to learn.

8:47

And you know, you get a great

8:47

story under my belt. And it

8:51

always reminds me to be aware

8:51

and to have these check ins with

8:54

myself on how are we doing? How

8:54

are we feeling about this,

8:57

whether that's working on new

8:57

projects, or specific team

9:00

members, even in client

9:00

relationships now, you know, I

9:04

try to check in with myself more

9:04

often. So that I can avoid that

9:08

mistake again of staying too

9:08

long, and not being courageous

9:13

enough to make the move.

9:15

Definitely. And I'm

9:15

glad you kind of made that move

9:18

and you realize you came to your

9:18

own realization about you are

9:21

uncomfortable and you're unhappy

9:21

in that role. Because I feel

9:23

like that's more powerful than

9:23

somebody telling you.

9:25

Yeah, yeah.

9:25

Sometimes we don't receive that

9:28

feedback, or, you know, we get

9:28

defensive, or we don't really if

9:31

we're not ready to hear it.

9:31

It'll just wash off. So think

9:35

there's something about you have

9:35

to be ready to receive that

9:38

feedback, and be ready to take

9:38

the leap of faith. What maybe

9:42

it's

9:42

scary, I would

9:42

agree. I end up dropping some

9:46

really great pieces of advice

9:46

throughout the conversation, but

9:49

what advice would you give

9:49

somebody who was wanting to

9:51

pursue a career similar to yours?

9:53

Yeah, so we're in

9:53

that professional development

9:56

and leadership training space,

9:56

and I feel I meet a lot of

9:59

fantastic to coaches who want to

9:59

do amazing work, who want to

10:03

help people change the life, who

10:03

want to help people to make

10:07

courageous steps in their career

10:07

or you know, in their life, the

10:12

advice that I would offer is,

10:12

don't try to be everything to

10:15

everyone. I think so often, and

10:15

maybe this is an entrepreneur

10:18

thing. Actually, it also, it's a

10:18

human thing. I think that there

10:22

are probably so many times in

10:22

life, whether that's in a

10:25

relationship, whether that's in

10:25

a in a job, or as an

10:29

entrepreneur, and starting off,

10:29

well, we try to be everything to

10:34

everyone. There's no boundaries,

10:34

we say yes to everything. And we

10:39

lose a little piece of who we

10:39

are somewhere along the way. We

10:42

overextend ourselves, especially

10:42

in a remote workplace, or in

10:47

this COVID world where so many

10:47

different roles are blending

10:51

into one, you could be a chef or

10:51

teacher, a mom, you know, a

10:55

friend, and neighbor, all these

10:55

different roles you're playing

10:58

simultaneously. So we need to

10:58

have boundaries, we need to

11:01

really prioritize and focus on

11:01

what's most important in the

11:06

entrepreneurial side or in

11:06

business. That means finding

11:08

your niche, decide who you want

11:08

to work with, what is the impact

11:14

you want to make, and the best

11:14

thing I ever did was we ever did

11:18

was niche. You know, we're

11:18

really leadership training

11:21

through the lens of diversity,

11:21

equity and inclusion. That's

11:24

what we are known for. That is

11:24

our area of specialization. And

11:28

it is helped us grow our

11:28

business and our impact in a

11:31

really powerful way. So I think

11:31

don't try to be everything to

11:34

everyone focus. That's the key.

11:37

Definitely. And,

11:37

finally, about your career, I

11:40

feel like there's a lot of

11:40

misconceptions about

11:42

entrepreneurship, and also the

11:42

leadership industry. I'm

11:45

curious, what is one myth about

11:45

your career profession that you

11:48

would like to debunk right here right now?

11:50

Cool myth. That it

11:50

always has to be one to one I

11:59

feel like or that there's,

11:59

there's, wherever you whatever,

12:05

wherever you've come from, is

12:05

value added. I think so often,

12:09

people think, Oh, I haven't had

12:09

a background in HR, how can I

12:14

possibly work with people and

12:14

grow and develop, you know,

12:16

maybe I come from a technical

12:16

background like engineering, or

12:20

you know, somewhere and

12:20

opportunity in STEM, you can

12:24

pivot. And there is value in

12:24

owning your career journey and

12:27

pulling out those lessons

12:27

learned in bridging who you are

12:32

into what you do. So I think

12:32

don't discount where you've come

12:35

from, instead, pull those

12:35

lessons may connect the dots,

12:39

that's up to you to connect the

12:39

dots. And the way that I think

12:43

that's applicable for this

12:43

industry, you know, people

12:46

development, coaching,

12:46

professional development, but

12:50

it's also important, if you're a

12:50

people leader, if you're a

12:52

manager, or mentor, you know,

12:52

you need to be able to connect

12:57

the dots from your own life

12:57

experience. And that goes from

13:00

outside work to WHO HAVE YOU

13:00

BEEN as a person of color, as a

13:04

person growing up in a specific

13:04

socio economic neighborhood, you

13:09

know, if you've traveled outside

13:09

of the US, or you know, you're

13:13

an expat, and you're, maybe you're working in your third language, bring more of who you

13:15

are into work every day. hear

13:21

those stories, in projects, and

13:21

it may help you better connect

13:24

with your markets and customers,

13:24

and may help you better connect

13:28

with the people that you're

13:28

wanting to get into your team

13:31

and attracting top talent in or

13:31

keeping them there. So I think

13:34

there's this huge opportunity

13:34

for us to bring more of who we

13:37

are outside of work into work in

13:37

order to create a different

13:43

vibe, and one where we can be

13:43

all of who you are. We are every

13:46

day.

13:47

Yeah, that's

13:47

amazing. And I love that. I

13:50

think yeah, definitely, I feel

13:50

in corporate America, sometimes

13:53

you can get lost in like, you

13:53

know, just doing the work by now

13:56

I felt an entrepreneurship, you

13:56

have more freedom to be yourself

13:58

and just to bring your own self

13:58

to work.

14:01

Yeah, and it takes

14:01

guts to do that, right? Let's

14:04

face it, it takes courage to be

14:04

all of who you are every day to

14:09

put that on a website to speak

14:09

that out loud in your value

14:12

proposition to put that on

14:12

LinkedIn. It takes courage and

14:17

also a sense of self awareness,

14:17

you have to know who you are,

14:20

you got to do the work to figure

14:20

that out.

14:23

Exactly. There's no

14:23

point if you don't know who you

14:25

are.

14:26

And I think we can

14:26

do some market research and, you

14:29

know, get our friends and family

14:29

and peers to validate some of

14:32

that, but you got to know who

14:32

you are and what is the impact

14:35

you're looking to make in the

14:35

world, in your team in the

14:38

community and really think into

14:38

those questions in order to show

14:42

up with that level of

14:42

confidence. On so many different

14:46

channels.

14:46

Definitely,

14:46

definitely. And more about you

14:49

because you seem like such an

14:49

interesting person. What have

14:51

you read or listened to recently

14:51

this really inspired you?

14:55

Oh, so many. So one

14:55

of my dad's all time favorite

14:58

books is this book by Spencer

14:58

Johnson, it's called Who Moved

15:01

My Cheese. It's a super short

15:01

book. It's like a fable of these

15:05

two mice and these two little

15:05

mini humans. And how this I

15:08

won't know, spoiler alerts, but

15:08

it's a great book, I highly

15:10

recommend it. And it's about

15:10

change. It's a really simple

15:14

fable and reminder that we have

15:14

to move, when the cheese is no

15:18

longer there in the maze, you

15:18

have the choice to sit in the

15:21

corner, and decide and just wait

15:21

for the opportunities come to

15:25

you, or you to take action and

15:25

go seek out those opportunities

15:29

to go with the flow to go with

15:29

to understand that change is

15:33

inevitable and is happening and

15:33

the action is an accountability

15:36

is on you to make that next

15:36

move. So I loved rereading that

15:40

story. And I actually found out

15:40

there's a sequel to it. So I was

15:43

listening to the audiobook a few

15:43

weeks, like two weeks ago, it's

15:46

called out of the maze. And that

15:46

one focuses more on beliefs,

15:51

right? Beliefs are these stories

15:51

that we keep telling ourselves

15:55

and we hold them so close to

15:55

ourselves, we think that this is

15:58

who I am. But if you change the

15:58

narrative, you change the story

16:02

that you're telling yourself

16:02

that your internal monologue,

16:04

you have the power to change

16:04

your beliefs. And that can be

16:07

game changing, that can be life

16:07

changing. So just this is really

16:11

cool reminder, for me, that, you

16:11

know, we have power over

16:17

narratives, we have power over

16:17

what happens next in our lives.

16:21

And I loved just the cool, how

16:21

short the book was, number one.

16:27

It was a quick read quick audio

16:27

guy, I love that. And it was a

16:31

cute fable story, you can listen

16:31

to it with your kids, you can

16:34

listen to it. You know, my dad

16:34

is the one who told me about

16:36

this. So it was kind of cool.

16:36

It's very accessible. The other

16:40

thing I really enjoyed recently

16:40

was the book. Think again, by

16:48

Adam Grant, you know, Tim

16:48

talking about just experimenting

16:53

more in life, right? Like we see

16:53

life, I kind of put that

16:57

scientists head on everything's

16:57

experiment, we don't take it so

17:00

seriously, when things go wrong,

17:00

we can pivot, it was just a

17:04

hypothesis. So I love that

17:04

there's an opportunity to not be

17:07

so attached to our ideas, but

17:07

instead, put it out there and

17:12

get the information then decide

17:12

what to do next. It felt very

17:16

freeing. And it's given me a new

17:16

lens on the way that I'm looking

17:21

at life and relationships and

17:21

even some are planning, right?

17:26

In this we're couple of the

17:26

world is coming out of lockdown,

17:29

and yep, COVID We have to be

17:29

creative. We have to be willing

17:33

to experiment and try new things

17:33

and see how we feel. It's going

17:36

to be a whole new world of work

17:36

and life. So it's all one big

17:40

experiment, you know, and that

17:40

really reminded me of that. So

17:44

it was kind of cool. Well, I

17:45

love the sort of contrast between the two books, but I'll definitely make sure to

17:47

check them out. And then sort of

17:50

following on from that. Who

17:50

would you say were three people

17:53

in your life who have been the

17:53

most influential to you?

17:57

Oh, my parents.

17:57

First of all, my mom and dad are

18:00

incredible people. They are the

18:00

most enthusiastic people you'll

18:03

ever meet. So if you thought I

18:03

was high energy, oh, my

18:05

goodness, the big eyes, big

18:05

teeth coming out? Yeah, they

18:09

are. But what really inspired me

18:09

about what inspires me is that

18:15

they are immigrants who come

18:15

from India and set up a life in

18:18

Canada. They are entrepreneurs.

18:18

So when they had a very young

18:22

family, they took the risk to

18:22

leave stable corporate jobs, and

18:26

start out on their own. I think

18:26

that was very ballsy. It was

18:30

very, you know, it took grit, I

18:30

saw that they had incredible

18:36

work ethic. They had passion,

18:36

dedication, commitment. And they

18:39

were an incredible team. They

18:39

are an incredible team. So

18:42

really honor, what I've learned

18:42

almost would have absorbed from

18:48

growing up with them. And they

18:48

continue to be huge mentors, and

18:52

they're on my personal board of

18:52

directors, they're huge. The

18:55

other weird say is my

18:55

grandfather had a very big

19:00

impact on me. And he passed away

19:00

when I was five years old. And

19:05

so it's almost the legacy of who

19:05

he was and how he was in the

19:10

world that I have always heard

19:10

of. That made a difference to

19:14

me. He's very close to my heart.

19:14

And, you know, I think if

19:22

there's ever a chance, you know,

19:22

sometimes you get asked that

19:24

question, if you could have

19:24

dinner with someone dead or

19:27

alive, who would it be? I would

19:27

definitely want to have dinner

19:30

with my grandfather to ask

19:30

questions and just deepen that

19:34

relationship. And so the third

19:34

person is, when I think of epic,

19:40

like Boss Babes, I think of Sara

19:40

Blakely, the founder of banks in

19:45

Atlanta. She's one of the

19:45

youngest self made female

19:48

billionaires. I love I follow

19:48

her on Instagram. I love her

19:51

stuff on LinkedIn. I just love

19:51

her. She has it all. She has

19:55

family, a loving marriage

19:55

building you know billion dollar

19:58

company and I Is this these

19:58

examples that we need in life,

20:02

we can have it all. It's where

20:02

we choose to focus. It's who we,

20:06

you know, our support network,

20:06

it's leading the way and not it

20:11

not being perfect. Not realizing

20:11

that we need to know it all or

20:15

check these boxes before we go

20:15

into entrepreneurship. And

20:18

before we start our company, I

20:18

really take that away from her.

20:21

So she's a mentor in my life,

20:21

even though I haven't met her

20:24

yet, but I'm getting. But she's

20:24

a huge mentor in my life.

20:28

Oh, amazing. And

20:28

that's lovely to hear that you

20:30

are surrounded by such amazing

20:30

people who supported you

20:33

throughout your journey. Yeah,

20:33

so thank you. And then finally,

20:37

to wrap up our conversation,

20:37

what is one piece of advice that

20:40

you wish you gave yourself at

20:40

any point in your life?

20:44

At any point in my

20:44

life? Oh, probably a lot of

20:47

advice for myself. Hmm. Probably

20:47

the thing about trust, having

20:58

faith and not putting so much

20:58

pressure on myself,

21:01

I think there were, you know, I

21:01

look back on life, my journey,

21:06

there were many times where I

21:06

invested time and energy into

21:10

the doing into leaping into

21:10

action. And, you know, there's

21:14

something to be said about hard

21:14

work, but overdoing it or trying

21:19

to burn yourself out by the

21:19

doing, I could probably have

21:23

chilled a little bit more. And

21:23

remember that who we're being

21:27

matters to how we're showing up

21:27

every day, who were you know,

21:31

taking the lessons. Trusting and

21:31

having more faith that who I am

21:36

matters and is enough at

21:36

specific moments in my life is

21:40

probably the advice and whisper

21:40

into my ear at certain moments

21:44

in my life.

21:45

Amazing. Well what

21:45

a lovely note to end on. So

21:47

thank you so much for taking the

21:47

time to speak with me today. It

21:50

was truly engaging to have this conversation.

21:53

Oh thank you Laila

21:53

was fantastic to chat with you

21:55

and love your energy. And I love

21:55

that you're having conversations

21:58

with incredible people all over

21:58

the world. So thank you for

22:01

that. Thank you for what you're doing.

22:03

Thank you so much.

22:03

All right, then bye bye.