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0:30

He would lie his way into

0:32

their dreams. He was looking for

0:34

James Bond girls. How fun would

0:37

that be to be a Bond girl? Then

0:39

twist them into a nightmare. This

0:41

guy has done this before. He'll do it again. Until

0:44

a group of women banded together to

0:46

put him behind bars and keep him

0:48

there. You have to participate fiercely, fiercely

0:52

in what happens next. I'm Keith

0:54

Morrison and this is Murder in

0:56

the Hollywood Hills, an all new

0:58

podcast from Dateline. Listen

1:00

to Murder in the Hollywood

1:02

Hills for free each week

1:04

or subscribe to Dateline Premium

1:06

on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or

1:08

datelinepremium.com to unlock new episodes

1:10

one week early. New

1:17

England is known for its charming

1:19

towns, comforting foods, and of course

1:22

its historical contributions, but the

1:24

down east region can have a dark side.

1:27

I'm investigative journalist Kylie Lowe and on

1:29

my weekly podcast Dark Down East, I

1:31

dig into both decades old and modern

1:34

day cases from my home state of

1:36

Maine and the greater New England area.

1:39

In each episode of Dark Down East,

1:41

I seek insight from law enforcement officials,

1:43

family members, and other loved ones who

1:46

are both deeply familiar with the cases

1:48

and the individuals at the heart of them.

1:51

Join me as I unveil intricacies of

1:53

these stories that are often overlooked, honor

1:55

the grit of those searching for justice,

1:57

and shine a light on cases that

1:59

you are The Hearing on Podcasts.

2:02

Listen to Darko nice know wherever

2:04

you're listening. Welcome.

2:46

To human monsters. Prologue.

2:52

Dreams from Canada in South Africa

2:54

Few more Me I would like

2:56

to begin this episode by thinking

2:59

all of those who has taken

3:01

the time in a few coins

3:04

you have to support Misdemeanor also

3:06

known by now too many of

3:08

you as Penny Morris. Over the

3:11

last couple of years our friendship

3:13

has grown and as your friend

3:15

I believe she deserves a better

3:18

living conditions and life then she

3:20

is currently existing. In at role

3:23

she lives in South Africa. remember

3:25

that each dollar helps and as

3:27

soon as we have for back

3:29

on her feet and in a

3:32

safe place for patriot and will

3:34

be discontinued. For those who feel

3:36

like they just want to make

3:39

just a one time donation hit

3:41

me up and I will give

3:43

you her details are better. Patreon

3:45

link in the show description. Is

3:49

autumn now in South Africa and

3:51

general elections are a month away.

3:54

So the main aim is to

3:56

get her and her disabled son

3:58

into a place where they don't

4:00

have to jump at every sound

4:03

outside the window every half hour

4:05

and give them the opportunity to

4:07

start over. We all

4:09

deserve a second chance and to

4:12

raise our children in a safe

4:14

and happy environment. And

4:16

with that, let's get on with the show.

4:21

For those of you who

4:23

are hard core true crime

4:25

sands and who still debate

4:27

the nature versus nurture issue,

4:29

please excuse me as a

4:31

slowly fall into a forty

4:34

winks cat nap. I heard

4:36

the debate so many times

4:38

that I just can't get

4:40

excited about it anymore. Of

4:42

course, away a child is

4:44

raised will eventually affect the

4:46

outcome of his or her

4:48

future, but as humans, we

4:50

possess that wonderful. Gift cold

4:52

free will. Not

4:55

everyone raised by addicted

4:57

and neglectful parents and

4:59

who isn't that? surrounded

5:01

by abject poverty and

5:03

the constant enticement of

5:05

crime becomes a gangster,

5:08

A criminal, a killer,

5:10

A rapist or a repeat

5:12

offender. There are

5:15

far too many true crime stories

5:17

which a person decides that they

5:19

will rise above their circumstances and

5:22

become someone more than a repeat

5:24

offender. Still, it's undeniable

5:26

that and how where and

5:28

by whom you are raised

5:30

does have a major impact

5:32

on the path you choose

5:35

to follow. It

5:37

takes courage, hard work, and

5:39

determination to rise above your

5:42

station in life. But.

5:44

It can be done. Unfortunately,

5:47

It happens far too often

5:49

as you were born from

5:51

neglect, violence, addiction and wondering

5:54

where your next meal comes

5:56

from that the past you

5:58

will choose his. The travelled.

6:01

You might not be able to

6:04

choose your family, but you can

6:06

choose your friends and the way

6:08

your family influences your future. So

6:11

decide wisely. In

6:17

the cases we explore today,

6:19

the families are rather they

6:21

are deviant behavior one most

6:24

of the time, which is

6:26

an outright tizzy. I guess

6:28

the lesson to learn today

6:31

is that if you use

6:33

your free will wisely, regardless

6:35

of your childhood and circumstances,

6:38

life can offer opportunities that

6:40

will improve up list and

6:42

enrich your destiny. Which

6:45

leads us to. The

6:47

ball go clan. The.

6:50

Story: The Ball The Clan

6:52

So bananas that if I

6:54

did not have sexual references

6:56

I would have thought it

6:58

was nothing more than the

7:00

stripped of an outrageous movie.

7:02

But the truth is really

7:04

sometimes stranger than fiction. This

7:07

family spawned for generations

7:09

of criminals from or

7:11

a balmy top Texas

7:13

with a mixed bag

7:15

of charges ranging from

7:17

fraud to murder. Instead

7:22

of blood, a deviant strain

7:24

of poisonous blood ran through

7:26

each and every one of

7:28

the members of this bunch

7:30

of misfits. Instead of a

7:32

well functional family, this brood

7:34

was fused together by an

7:37

immoral and poisonous mix that

7:39

ran through their veins. The

7:42

usual strong bonds were

7:44

replaced by unhealthy boundaries

7:46

and a normal terms

7:48

of loyalty were completely

7:50

blurred. According

7:54

to an article in The New

7:56

York Post, when Bobby Bogor was

7:58

four years old, The In: Nineteen

8:01

Sixty Nine He woke up on

8:03

Christmas morning with a single gift

8:05

from his dad. To

8:07

most of us, we would

8:09

envision a set of miniature

8:11

hot rod cars or football.

8:14

They're wrapped in simple brown paper.

8:17

Was. A heavy metal wrench.

8:21

Bobby. Might still be considered a

8:24

toddler, but he has been in

8:26

the family long enough to know

8:28

that this just meant one same.

8:31

Later that day he and his

8:33

brother would break into the local

8:35

convenience stores with the ranch and

8:38

steel bottles of soda. When

8:41

his father who went by

8:43

the name rooster learned of

8:45

assessed always said was. Yes,

8:48

That's my boy. To

8:51

rooster his children. First

8:53

crime successfully committed was

8:55

almost comparable to a

8:57

report card with straight

8:59

A's This was the

9:01

beginning of the fourth

9:03

generation of ball food

9:05

commit crimes on a

9:08

regular basis since nineteen

9:10

twenties. The clan

9:12

had it's origins in Texas

9:14

in Nineteen Twenty One, when

9:16

L and Louis Bogle, no

9:18

relation fell in love. The

9:20

couple were dead broke but

9:23

decided to run away to

9:25

the carnival. Lewis

9:27

did odd jobs well. L B.

9:29

was the breadwinner riding a motorcycle

9:32

up and down curved walls for

9:34

five dollars week and all the

9:36

tips she could muster. At

9:39

night the couple slept in railway

9:42

cars and drank away whatever they

9:44

made. L B

9:46

would go on to have five

9:48

boys who all would follow a

9:51

criminal career path. During.

9:55

The winter months, they went back to

9:58

Texas and slept wherever they could. Find

10:00

an empty hallway are

10:03

abandoned Home. Their

10:05

own family had shown them by now.

10:08

Louis ran distilleries the when

10:10

caught would only get a

10:12

suspended sentence since the prisons

10:14

were already for. The

10:16

clan lived like proud outlaws,

10:19

and it's rumored that a

10:21

gangster pretty boy Floyd, used

10:23

their Shaq as a hideout.

10:25

When he left, he gave

10:27

L B money to buy

10:29

shoes for her boys. During

10:33

the nineteen thirties, carnival worked ride

10:35

up and the clan had to

10:37

invent new ways to get money.

10:40

From the moment they could

10:42

see over steering wheel they

10:45

would hijack trucks and months

10:47

even stores safe. The

10:49

boys were not the brightest

10:51

sparks and used to blow

10:53

torch to open the safe

10:55

leaving drops of melted and

10:57

Molson specs of metal on

11:00

the bills. The moment

11:02

the boys began to spend the money. They.

11:04

Were arrested. Rooster

11:09

would spend time on probation for

11:11

the theft and for shoplifting. He

11:14

was the youngest of the brewed

11:16

in. Fell in love with Cassie

11:18

Curtis as soon as he was

11:21

released from the penitentiary. At the

11:23

age of nineteen, the to would

11:25

get married. Rooster gained

11:27

no favors from his parole

11:30

officers by refusing to get

11:32

a job. So the matriarch

11:34

of the clan decided that

11:36

the entire family would move

11:38

to Oregon where their second

11:40

son, Charlie has become a

11:42

metal worker. Thirteen

11:46

days and to his job

11:48

on a mushroom farm. Rooster

11:50

staged his own slip and

11:52

fall and claimed nine hundred

11:54

and eighty dollars from an

11:57

insurance company. Later that

11:59

year. In Sixty Two,

12:01

while on a family drive

12:03

l be told Rooster to

12:06

sideswipe a passing truck. Family

12:09

blamed the trucker claiming he

12:11

injured the heavily pregnant Cassie.

12:13

This scam. Pay the family

12:15

out a cool ten thousand

12:18

dollars. Rooster

12:22

continue to do everything except

12:24

a hard day's work. He

12:26

had more kids with Cassie

12:28

and when permanently on welfare.

12:30

At one point he was

12:32

arrested for the delinquency of

12:34

a minor. The once again,

12:36

he just received probation. This

12:39

warning did not stop him and

12:41

he seduced another sixteen year old

12:44

girl who was of migrant worker

12:46

by the name is Linda White.

12:48

He promised her marriage but instead

12:50

just moved her into his and

12:53

Kathy's home. Cassie claimed that she

12:55

did not mind because this way

12:57

she would see more of Rooster

12:59

since he would not be out

13:02

at night chasing after Linda. The

13:08

Bogle clan stole everything from

13:10

chickens to cows, from lumber

13:12

to steal and once even

13:15

broke into a government run

13:17

fish hatchery just the gorge

13:19

on salmon. Rooster

13:21

kept on having sex with both

13:23

women often at the same time

13:26

and when he was drunk he

13:28

would beat them. Linda

13:30

would have two children with him

13:32

and chassis a total of four.

13:35

On all he would have nine

13:37

children with different women and all

13:39

of them would end up with

13:41

a criminal record. As soon

13:43

as the boys were six or seven

13:45

years old, Rooster would get him drunk

13:48

and by the time they were eleven

13:50

or twelve years old, he would take

13:52

them along to pick up women. Even.

13:54

offering them sloppy seconds

14:00

When Kathy's son Bobby turned 16 years

14:02

old, she took

14:04

him to a strip club and burst

14:06

out laughing when he realized the star

14:08

of the show was his

14:11

own sister, Melody. Rooster

14:13

taught his boys the one thing he

14:15

was good at, and that was

14:18

stealing, and soon they surpassed

14:20

his craft. Tony, the

14:22

oldest, loved to torture

14:25

dogs and cats by

14:27

setting them on fire, and

14:29

once did it so many times, he

14:31

caused a forest fire. His

14:34

first arrest was at the age of 12, and

14:37

would end 10 years later with

14:39

a murder trial. Tony

14:42

claimed that he had only choked his

14:44

victim after he had tried to rape

14:46

his wife, and she had

14:48

bashed in his skull. His

14:51

sentence was 26 years to life, and

14:53

to this day, it seems he is

14:56

still behind bars. The

15:01

violence in the family was such a daily

15:03

part of life that when

15:05

Bobby and his baby brother, Tracy, believed

15:08

that they were cheated in a deal,

15:11

they went to the man's house

15:13

and bound both the man and

15:15

his girlfriend to chairs. The

15:18

two men proceeded to beat both while they

15:20

were tied up. Tracy tried to

15:22

force the woman to give him oral sex, but

15:25

he had a limp dick from drinking

15:27

too much earlier. They

15:29

eventually fled with the woman's

15:32

purse, jewelry, and her car, but

15:35

they were arrested the following day. Bobby

15:37

was sentenced to 30 years behind

15:40

bars because he had already eight

15:42

different felony convictions against him. Tracy,

15:45

however, had no adult convictions,

15:47

and was sentenced to 16

15:49

years in prison with a

15:51

lifelong label of sex offender.

15:54

This meant that even after he

15:56

was married following his release, he

15:59

was banned. from being near his own baby.

16:02

Since his first release, he had

16:04

been back twice to prison for

16:07

a variety of offenses. When

16:13

asked after, Tracy said,

16:16

we did it all as a family. We

16:18

broke into houses while mom drove the

16:20

getaway car. We pride

16:22

in our family. So it

16:24

was fun. We were a crime

16:27

family. The

16:30

crimes of the Bogle clan might

16:32

only be tales of hereditary anecdotes,

16:36

but another field of thought, which

16:38

I agree with, is that mental

16:40

illness definitely ran within the Bogle

16:42

family. There also seems to

16:44

be a genetic marker

16:46

as to how they handled

16:49

stress. A

16:53

landmark study in the 90s by

16:55

the Think Tank, the Heritage Foundation,

16:58

was named the Real

17:00

Root Causes of Violent Crime. It

17:03

concluded that the main causes

17:05

were parental love deprivation and

17:07

broken families. Poverty also

17:09

has a major role to play, but

17:12

a secure bond with one's parents

17:14

can make all the difference. During

17:17

a study with the Bogle family,

17:19

who had all served time in

17:21

one institution or another, this

17:24

happens to not be the case. The

17:27

strong bond they had is what

17:29

made them such unrepentant criminals. When

17:32

the study was done about the Bogle

17:34

clan, it was originally thought that there

17:37

were six members of the family in

17:39

prison. After the study was

17:41

concluded, the number was actually found to be

17:43

60. Poverty,

17:47

abuse, and alcoholism were

17:49

also factors. One of

17:51

the homes the family lived in was

17:54

constructed with battery crates,

17:56

which still had acid leaking from

17:59

them. The family used

18:01

to joke that the chemical smell

18:03

at least kept the cockroaches away.

18:06

They were never concerned about the toxic

18:08

nature of the crates. They

18:11

would murder people and then call

18:13

members of their family from their

18:15

victims homes. None

18:17

of them had a high IQ

18:19

and underage sex and marriage was

18:21

as normal as a sunny day

18:23

in Florida. It

18:26

was as if their crimes became

18:28

part of their mythology and

18:30

something to be aspired to. But

18:33

not all families with the lineage of

18:35

crime have the same pride in their

18:38

misdeeds. The

18:42

Bogle Clan might have been the kind

18:44

of family that stayed together because

18:47

they slayed together. But

18:49

in Ohio, a drama is

18:51

still unfolding as one family was

18:54

decimated for what would ultimately be

18:56

a motive that made

18:58

no sense and that would

19:00

eventually scar a community forever. Part

19:04

2 Family

19:06

feuds, both fictional and factual, have

19:08

been one of the most prevalent

19:11

plots gracing our history

19:13

in literature as a human race.

19:16

From Romeo and Juliet to the

19:18

Hatfields and McCoys, we

19:20

seem to be intrigued by

19:23

the drama and complicated ties

19:25

that buying two families and

19:27

the unfortunate results that happen when

19:29

the fight gets out of hand. The

19:32

recipe of taking two families, adding

19:34

a bit of conflict, letting

19:36

it simmer in a family

19:38

dynamic that is passive-aggressive at

19:41

best and violently explosive

19:43

at worst, has made

19:45

many a network producer and director a

19:48

millionaire. And although many

19:50

of us snub the hundreds of

19:53

soap operas currently available to watch,

19:56

I Personally know a couple of hardcore

19:58

people who have admitted. It's

20:00

near guilty pleasure bread. It's

20:03

the fact that on my

20:05

friends and acquaintances we can't

20:07

choose our family, and somehow

20:09

as we try to navigate

20:11

the complex and often dysfunctional

20:14

pathways of our own relationships,

20:16

it's a relief to know

20:18

other families are far worse

20:20

off than our own sprinted.

20:22

these days we are less

20:25

seduced by the portrait displayed

20:27

on our screens of what

20:29

a normal. Family is considered to

20:31

be. We realized

20:34

it's a vast minority that

20:36

can be as perfect as

20:38

The Partridge Family or The

20:41

Brady Bunch. Even the finely

20:43

crafted sitcom The Cosby Show

20:45

ended up being tainted by

20:48

the allegations litigations, an inevitable

20:50

incarceration As a man so

20:52

many would try to emulate

20:55

as being a perfect father

20:57

for years. The

21:00

characters in the story I am

21:02

sharing with you today would have

21:04

made perfect actors in a melodrama.

21:06

And if it wasn't for the

21:08

fact that this story is a

21:11

true crime horror stories based on

21:13

facts, it would read like a

21:15

novel and feel far too fantastical

21:17

to be true. I

21:19

had so many mixed emotions well

21:22

writing about this case and in

21:24

the end only one question turned

21:26

over and over in my mind.

21:29

If no one one. In the end, What?

21:31

Was the point As you will

21:33

see. Everyone. Lost in the

21:36

end. to

21:41

set the scene of is

21:43

twisted tangled and tragic tale

21:45

of two families i would

21:47

like to tell those of

21:49

you who at least outside

21:51

the usa about the geographical

21:53

and general vibe of the

21:55

area where this story takes

21:57

place ohio is undoubtedly one

22:00

of the most beautiful states in the country, with

22:03

brutal winters and endless summers,

22:06

home of the lovely and talented Michelle

22:08

Gower, but also

22:11

to the Sexton family. Until

22:13

a couple of decades ago, the

22:16

two main industries that strengthened

22:18

the state's economy were

22:20

farming and factories that

22:23

produced cars and parts. Slowly

22:26

but surely, over the last 30

22:28

to 40 years, these

22:31

manufacturing plants had been closing

22:33

down, retrenching and

22:36

firing folks whose entire future

22:39

plan depended on having

22:41

a job that would provide for

22:43

a comfortable retirement. As

22:45

the poverty numbers grew, the

22:47

spirits and household incomes

22:50

declined and more and

22:52

more abandoned homes vacated

22:54

as a result of foreclosure

22:56

became drug dens and

22:59

temporary shelters for the homeless. The

23:03

rate of poverty has climbed

23:05

consistently, and the debate

23:07

around whether it was the drugs, the

23:10

crime or the gangs that came

23:12

first is as pointless

23:15

as asking whether the chicken or

23:17

the egg came first. The

23:20

beauty of the majestic Appalachian Mountain

23:22

range that frames the

23:24

countryside, the gorges, canyons and

23:27

wildlife that is breathtakingly

23:30

stunning is suddenly

23:32

marred by the fact that each and

23:34

every city or small town now

23:37

has an area that is deemed

23:39

dangerous. And unless rock bottom

23:41

left you nowhere else to go, you

23:44

should avoid at all costs. With

23:47

the rise in unemployment came the

23:49

growing number of homeless people and

23:52

what better way to forget your

23:54

sorrows and the life you

23:56

had before it all went to shit

23:59

than to do. drugs and

24:01

of drug dealers there

24:04

is no shortage. It

24:06

appears that heroin, methamphetamine,

24:08

and oxycodone were

24:11

the most popular drugs and

24:13

it's not even shocking to see

24:15

a news headline shouting that another

24:17

pill mill or meth lab

24:20

had been shut down in a

24:22

rural countryside or a little town

24:25

time almost had forgotten. Man

24:29

Man, that sunset is gorgeous.

24:32

Grill, patio, sunset? Hard to get

24:34

better than that. Unless you're browsing

24:36

Carvana's inventory while you soak it

24:38

all in. Oh,

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burger time. So sit back,

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get comfortable. Carvana's got thousands of cars under $20,000

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meets convenience. Download the app

24:54

or visit carvana.com today. On

24:59

February 4th the minds of madness

25:01

is set to release an investigative

25:04

four-part series centered on a

25:06

cold case for nearly four decades ago. At

25:10

first it was just my mom's gone

25:12

and then it became you know your

25:14

mom was taken by a Batman. They

25:17

found videos of him killing

25:19

women. If you never watched any uh facilities

25:21

of Breaking Bad that's exactly what you would

25:23

see. He buried these 11 women

25:25

and kept going out there. He

25:27

made a road going out there.

25:29

You got this dude saying hey

25:31

I'm gonna show your family these

25:33

pictures and like he's secretly taping

25:35

her. The cops don't care. We're

25:37

nothing to them. Don't throw like

25:40

a piece of garbage in her. I don't

25:42

see anything that screams there's two people doing

25:44

this. I never thought anything was going

25:46

to come of this case ever.

25:49

Listen to the minds of madness

25:51

series who killed Jennifer starting February

25:54

4th wherever you get your podcasts.

25:57

In a small town in Colorado people.

26:00

Current your family run funeral home.

26:02

In their deepest moment of law. Run

26:04

by a mother and. Daughter team.

26:07

The funeral home offered thoughtful services

26:09

at a fair price, but there

26:11

was a dark side to their

26:14

business. It was truly. A house

26:16

of horrors he said see me as

26:18

dismembered him in saw parts of him

26:21

and. Smash

26:23

were. Uninvestigated reporter

26:25

Ashley thoughts and this is

26:27

the story of an unbelievable

26:29

crime. You've never heard of

26:31

A story of a funeral

26:33

homes that nord their victims

26:35

in the front door only

26:37

to sell their body. Out

26:40

the back from camp. Side

26:42

Media and Sony Music Entertainment

26:44

listen to Cover Up Body

26:46

Brokered subscribe on Apple podcasts

26:48

to binge all episode or

26:51

listen weekly. wherever you get

26:53

your podcast. Missiles.

26:59

Not far from Columbus and

27:01

eighty miles from Cincinnati lies

27:03

the tiny town of Played.

27:06

In. Played county. The

27:09

total amount of residence is estimated

27:11

at about twenty two hundred on

27:14

a good days. And. Despite

27:16

the lack of a movie

27:18

theater or any other form

27:20

of entertainment, The Police encapsulates

27:23

good, wholesome country living at

27:25

it's best. Everyone knows

27:27

everyone. And I am

27:29

sure the gossip mill gets a

27:31

good turn every now and again,

27:33

but there's something this speech to

27:35

the sense of community when people

27:37

gather at gas stations for a

27:40

friendly chat or in the familiar

27:42

faces you tend to the Sunday

27:44

morning search service. That

27:46

was until. Something went

27:48

terribly wrong between two

27:50

families. Said. Would not

27:52

only include as many as

27:54

four generations of family members

27:57

believe. Distrust. Disgust.

27:59

And. division in a town so

28:02

small that, had it not

28:04

been for this tragedy, we might

28:06

never have even heard of it. But

28:09

enough about the place. Let's

28:11

meet the players on one of the

28:13

saddest cases I have ever covered. Despite

28:20

their unfortunate surname, the

28:22

Rodent family were

28:25

just your average small-town close-knit

28:27

family. Dana

28:30

and Chris Sr. Rodent were

28:32

born and raised, just like

28:34

their parents and grandparents, in

28:37

Pike County. The two

28:39

were high school sweethearts and

28:41

decided to tie the knot in

28:43

1994, shortly after leaving

28:46

school. Soon after

28:48

the couple started their new life together,

28:51

they welcomed their first-born

28:53

son, Frankie, followed

28:55

by Hannah May, and finally

28:57

young Christopher Jr. would join

28:59

the family. Sixteen-year-old

29:04

Chris Jr. was described as a bit

29:06

of a bad boy. In the

29:09

spring of 2016, he

29:11

had just passed his driver's

29:13

license test and offered

29:15

to take anyone anywhere they wanted to

29:18

go. The boys also loved hunting and

29:20

fishing and all the activities the

29:22

outdoors could offer. He

29:25

and brother Frankie were also

29:27

huge fans of demolition derbies

29:29

and would tinker for hours

29:31

on cars they wanted to

29:33

modify or build up for the

29:35

events. The only way

29:38

I can describe a demolition derby to

29:40

anyone who doesn't know what it is,

29:42

is to describe it

29:44

as a kind of competition

29:47

during which built

29:49

up and modified four-wheel

29:52

contraptions crash into each

29:54

other in a haze of dust,

29:56

fire, noise, and

29:58

cheering until the end of the day. is only

30:00

one man standing. Most

30:04

of the audience are men, incidentally. At

30:09

the time of the inevitable crime,

30:11

I am about to tell you,

30:13

21-year-old Frankie had set up house

30:16

with his girlfriend, Hannah Gilly. They

30:19

lived in a trailer of Stone Throw

30:21

Away from Chris and Gary, with

30:24

Brantley, who was three years old

30:26

from a previous relationship, and six

30:29

months old Ruger, who the couple

30:31

had become parents to. Frankie,

30:34

like his father, did

30:36

work in construction, and

30:38

Hannah Gilly had plans to

30:40

further her studies in business

30:43

administration and open to daycare. The

30:46

couple wanted to get married and

30:48

have a big family. Which Dana

30:50

encouraged? To her, there was no

30:52

greater joy than spoiling and loving

30:54

her grandchildren, and with

30:56

the family living in such close proximity,

30:59

support and a helping hand would also

31:01

be readily available. Chris

31:08

is described as a friendly and

31:10

hard-working family man who had a

31:12

real talent for carpentry. He

31:15

worked in construction and loved building

31:17

up cars, a passion he

31:19

clearly transferred to his sons. Dana

31:22

was a nursing assistant at an

31:24

elderly care facility, and friends and

31:27

family would describe her as bubbly,

31:29

caring, and full of life. After

31:32

a couple of years, Dana and

31:34

Chris decided to divorce, but

31:37

the separation was very amicable, and

31:40

all the family members would remain

31:42

on the land Chris had inherited,

31:45

mostly on Union Hill Road, to keep

31:47

the family close and help each other

31:49

with the rearing of the kids. A

31:55

couple of miles outside Piketon, the

31:58

Wagner family lived a

32:01

sprawling farm with

32:03

a colonial looking main house straight

32:05

from a Norman Rockwell painting. Like

32:08

the rodent family, their roots

32:11

run deep in the community and

32:13

the Flying W was one of

32:15

the most successful horse farms in

32:18

the state of Ohio with their

32:20

net worth estimated at about four

32:23

million dollars. The

32:27

family were well known in the area. Angela

32:30

and her husband Billy, who

32:32

stood at a sturdy six

32:34

foot seven, had two sons,

32:36

George and Jake. Both

32:38

boys were attached to their mother's

32:40

apron strings and Angela

32:42

took it upon herself to home-schooled

32:45

her children. The

32:47

dynamic was, however, a bit strange

32:49

in the sense that Angela seemed

32:51

to be the one that swung

32:54

the scepter. Despite his

32:56

massive stature and sullen and

32:58

brutish nature, it was,

33:01

in fact, Angela who

33:03

made all the important decisions.

33:06

George is described as good-natured with a

33:09

wicked sense of humor and

33:11

Jake was known for his giving

33:13

nature. Despite a few rumors about

33:16

business dealings that have gone sideways,

33:19

the family seemed like any country folk

33:21

you will find in any old country

33:23

song. Billy

33:27

seemed like a difficult character to get along

33:29

with. He was cold and

33:31

rough around the edges. It

33:34

seemed that neither Jake nor George ever

33:36

left the home they were raised in.

33:39

Strangers still are the

33:41

rumors that Angela had different sides

33:43

to her. Some would

33:46

recount times when she would provide food

33:48

and clothing to people in need in

33:51

an almost selfless manner, while

33:53

others described her as cunning

33:55

and shrewd. She

33:57

apparently had the passwords to all their social

34:00

media accounts, including dating

34:02

apps. She later

34:04

claimed that Billy was the controlling one

34:06

and that she often feared for her

34:09

life. But to those who knew her,

34:11

it never appeared to be the case.

34:14

She definitely wore the pants. When

34:20

the eldest son, George, married

34:22

his wife, Tabby, the

34:24

couple moved in with Angela and Billy. The

34:27

marriage, which produced one son,

34:30

was, however, short-lived.

34:33

Tabby would describe the relationship

34:35

as incredibly abusive and controlling.

34:38

Over a period of a year and a half,

34:41

she was forced to relinquish any

34:43

forms of communication she had with

34:45

her own family. She

34:48

would, one evening, arrive at her

34:50

mother's doorstep with her son, and

34:52

despite many attempts to get custody,

34:55

she could hardly establish supervised

34:57

visits. The

35:01

wag nurse kept her son as

35:03

far from her as possible. In

35:08

my humble view, the relationship between

35:10

Hannah May and Jake began as

35:13

a crime. When

35:15

the 13-year-old Hannah May and

35:17

the 17-year-old Jake started seriously

35:20

dating, everyone called

35:22

it young love. But

35:24

to me, it's statutory rape.

35:27

Regardless of my opinion, Hannah

35:30

May fell pregnant at 16,

35:33

and both families jumped in to

35:35

help the young couple navigate parenthood.

35:38

They seemed very much in love

35:40

and even had wedding rings tattooed

35:42

on their ring fingers. Even

35:47

though she was a teenage mom, Hannah

35:49

May was described by all

35:52

as an attentive and happy

35:54

mom. She even went

35:57

back to school to show off little

35:59

Sophia. born in 2015

36:01

to the teachers and classmates.

36:04

It seemed ideal with

36:06

Angela even claiming that Hannah May

36:09

was like a daughter to her. Jake

36:12

had taken up a job as a truck driver

36:14

to provide for his young family, but

36:17

Cracks had begun to show. As

36:21

the couple tried to cope with the

36:24

daunting task of being parents to little

36:26

Sophia, Cracks started to

36:28

show in their relationship. Jake

36:31

became controlling and abusive. Chris

36:34

Jr. would tell a friend that

36:36

Jake treated his sister like shit.

36:39

He had become overprotective and

36:41

there were rumors of abuse.

36:46

In April 2015, the couple

36:49

finally split. Jake

36:51

would later claim that Hannah May was

36:53

unhappy because of the long hours he

36:56

worked, but it's more

36:58

probable that she had enough of

37:00

his cohesive control. Jake

37:02

was devastated and would openly burst

37:04

into tears at the mention of

37:06

Hannah May's name. He

37:09

tried his best to rekindle the relationship,

37:11

but Hannah May made up her mind

37:14

and had soon after the breakup

37:16

started dating other young men. The

37:19

fact that she continued to sleep

37:22

with Jake did not help Jake's

37:24

emotional state with regards to his

37:26

breakup. He had clearly lost control

37:28

of the situation and now resorted

37:30

to hacking into Hannah May's social

37:33

media accounts and

37:35

installing cameras and

37:37

other surveillance equipment around the

37:39

rodent family's property. His

37:42

obsession with Sophia and having

37:44

full custody seemed to have

37:46

become an obsession with Hannah

37:48

May. What further

37:50

upset Jake was a month after

37:53

she officially ended the relationship, Hannah

37:55

May would start to date Charlie

37:57

Gilly. Hannah Gilly's brother and

38:00

Frankie's best friend. The

38:03

relationship was, however, short-lived.

38:05

She then started to date a man by

38:08

the name of Corey Holden. And

38:10

when she realized in April 2015 that she was

38:12

pregnant, the

38:14

very real possibility that anyone of the

38:17

three men in her life could be

38:19

the father came to light. Jake

38:22

was convinced it was his, and

38:24

even went as far as to

38:26

purchase baby clothes and necessities for

38:28

the unborn child. He

38:30

even offered to take custody of the baby, regardless

38:33

of who the father was. By

38:38

this time, the custody arrangement and

38:41

co-parenting arrangement had completely broken

38:43

down to a point that

38:45

Hannah blatantly refused that Jake

38:48

could see Sophia. In

38:50

a power move that blows my

38:52

mind, the Wagner family drew

38:55

up a document which gives Jake full

38:57

custody of Sophia and her

38:59

unborn sibling, and tried to

39:01

force Hannah to sign the document. To

39:04

give the document validity, grandmother

39:06

Aretha Newcomb stamped and signed

39:09

it, which is an action

39:11

that will come to bite her and

39:13

the power she had as a notary

39:15

in the back. Hannah

39:17

May, who by now was wise

39:20

to the various ways the family

39:22

manipulates, said no. Knowing

39:25

that Tabby, George's ex-wife, had

39:28

experienced the same forms of abuse

39:31

and control in the Wagner household

39:33

as she did, she

39:35

reached out to her for advice. The

39:38

family told her to not under

39:40

any circumstances sign any

39:42

documents given to her by the

39:44

Wagner family. In July 2015, Hannah

39:48

May would write the lyrics to

39:50

a song about abuse, and

39:52

she ended the post with these words, end

39:56

domestic violence, live

39:58

a happy life. Jake

40:03

did not hold back his anger at Hannah

40:06

May and in front of witnesses

40:08

told her, I

40:10

will fucking kill you. Only

40:14

a couple days before she would find out

40:16

how vengeful Jake and his family could be,

40:19

Hannah May wrote in a DM

40:21

to a confidant, I

40:24

won't sign papers, I won't ever.

40:27

They will have to kill me first. While

40:32

all the drama was unfolding, Hannah

40:34

May had her baby shower early

40:37

in April 2016 and

40:39

she gave birth to a healthy baby

40:41

girl she named Kylie. Paternity

40:44

tests would later reveal that

40:46

Kylie was indeed Cory's child,

40:49

but not before a spree killing the

40:51

likes of which the people of Pike

40:53

County never would have

40:55

been able to envision in their

40:57

worst nightmares. The

41:03

morning of the 22nd of April 2016

41:05

seemed like any other at the foot

41:07

of the Appalachian Mountains. Spring

41:10

had already begun to sprinkle

41:12

sparkling dew drops when

41:14

Bobby Joe Manley, Dana's

41:17

sister, approached the trailer

41:19

of her brother-in-law, Chris. His

41:22

cousin Gary from Kentucky had

41:24

been visiting and for reasons

41:26

unknown, Chris had asked

41:29

Bobby Joe to feed his dogs.

41:32

She found the door locked when she arrived

41:34

at the mobile home at 7.45 a.m.

41:39

but because of the arrangement, she

41:42

had a key to the front door. As

41:47

she swung open the door of the trailer, she

41:51

was met with what can only be

41:53

described as a

41:55

bloodbath. The

41:57

room that greeted her was streaked out. and

42:01

splattered crimson and

42:04

the bodies of Chris, Senior

42:06

and Gary lay in

42:08

full red display. The

42:10

scene was so bloody that on her desperate

42:12

call to the 911 operator she

42:15

would say that she believes the two men had

42:17

the hell beaten out of them. Chris

42:20

had been shot a total of nine times

42:23

and the medical examiner would note

42:26

extensive bruising on his body and

42:28

clear drag marks showing he

42:31

had been dragged across the floor. Gary

42:33

had been shot twice in the head

42:36

as the operator told her that help is on

42:38

its way and that she should

42:40

stay outside the house. Bobby

42:43

Joe went to the home of Frankie and

42:45

Hannah Gilly more than likely

42:47

for support. Three-year-old

42:49

Brantley opened the door

42:52

covered from head to toe in

42:54

the red liquid that covered the crime

42:56

scene from which she had just escaped.

42:59

Opened the door she asked

43:01

her nephew in a shaky voice

43:04

where his parents were to which

43:07

he eerily replied, Daddy's

43:10

playing zombie, referring

43:12

to the show The Walking Dead of

43:15

which the family were fans. Entering

43:18

the home Bobby Joe

43:20

would find both Frankie and

43:22

Hannah Gilly shot to

43:24

death in their beds. Frankie

43:27

had been shot three times in the head

43:29

and Hannah Gilly a total of five

43:32

times. Six-month-old Ruger

43:34

was found unharmed with his

43:36

parents. Bobby

43:43

Joe immediately called her brother James

43:45

and told him in hysterics about

43:48

her discovery. He made his

43:50

way to his sister Dana's home and

43:52

found both Hannah May and her

43:54

mother dead in their beds from

43:57

gunshot wounds. Hannah May

43:59

had been shot four times in the head

44:01

and once in the eye. Five-day-old

44:04

Kylie, who was cradled in her

44:06

dead mother's arms, was

44:08

left unharmed. The

44:10

body of 16-year-old Chris Jr. would

44:13

be found later in a separate

44:15

part of the trailer home. It

44:17

appeared that he had tried to hide away from

44:19

the killers, but was trapped and

44:21

killed, with four gunshot wounds to the

44:24

head, just like the rest of the

44:26

family. Dana had been shot

44:28

three times in the head and

44:30

once under the chin. Little

44:32

Sophia had been picked up by her father

44:34

the previous day and was not there at

44:36

the time of the murders. Settle

44:41

in for an evening of mystery, mayhem,

44:44

and exploration of the dark side of

44:46

humanity. I'm Dr. Shiloh, a former cop.

44:48

And I'm Dr. Scott, a former

44:51

Hollywood casting director. Now we're both

44:53

forensic psychologists working in Southern California.

44:55

Are you fascinated by the twisted minds

44:58

that commit criminal acts? Do

45:02

you ever wonder, how could they do

45:04

that? In each episode of our podcast,

45:06

LA Not So Confidential, we dissect the

45:08

nexus where true crime, forensic psychology, and

45:11

entertainment meet. Katie Blanchard was exaggerating her

45:13

daughter's medical condition for financial gain. We

45:15

serve up fascinating cases viewed through the

45:17

lens of human behavior. Why is your

45:19

brother afraid of you? Because that's where

45:22

things turn white. Delivered with our

45:24

signature gallows humor while examining the

45:26

actual diagnoses and dishing on the

45:28

media portrayal. Kids in my life.

45:31

Subscribe to LA Not So Confidential anywhere you

45:33

go for podcasts. Come and join us

45:35

for LA Not So Confidential.

45:37

Trust us. We're doctors. Do

45:42

you find yourself captivated by the

45:44

inexplicable, entranced by enigmas, and

45:46

tantalized by the unknown? We are

45:49

Shane and Josh Waters, brothers

45:55

who will weave you through tales that have mystified us

45:57

for years. From

46:01

haunted hotels to inexplicable

46:03

disappearances. Our

46:06

episodes offer you a panoramic view

46:08

of the world's greatest mysteries, leaving

46:10

no stone unturned, no clue unnoticed.

46:13

With a gripping narrative, we invite

46:15

you to join us on a

46:18

journey into realms of the unexplained.

46:21

Or unraveling the mysteries that have

46:23

perplexed humanity for ages. So,

46:27

armchair detectives, curious minds,

46:29

and seekers of the

46:31

strange. It's time to put

46:33

on your headphones and dim the lights. Dive

46:36

into the uncanny world of the

46:39

Mystery Inc. podcast and prepare for

46:41

a journey into the unknown that

46:43

you'll never forget. And remember, some

46:46

mysteries are better left unsolved, but

46:48

not unexplored. Gather

46:51

round, friend, and join me by

46:53

the fire. I have a secret to

46:55

share. When I was

46:57

a child, I lived with my grandma. She

47:00

allowed me to watch Unsolved Mysteries. Fast

47:03

forward to 2008, my freshman year

47:05

of college. A series

47:08

of armed robberies on campus escalated

47:10

into a serial rapist's reign of

47:12

terror. That's when

47:14

I created my first crime podcast. In

47:18

January 2014, I picked

47:20

up the podcast again. From my

47:22

college roommate, who fell for an

47:24

underage girl online. To the

47:27

chilling story of a murdered nun in 1969

47:29

Baltimore. And

47:31

in the throwaway series. I

47:34

share my own journey of overcoming homelessness

47:36

and how that experience led me to

47:38

unmask a serial killer and identify three

47:40

of his Jane Doe victims. This

47:44

is Foul Play Crime Series, where the

47:46

stories are real and the truth is

47:48

waiting to be discovered. Donald

48:00

Stone, cousin of Kenneth Rodent, who

48:02

happened to be Chris Sr's brother,

48:04

decided to check up on his

48:06

relative, who lived close by in

48:08

a camper. Kenneth was

48:11

found dead in his camper, with

48:13

a gunshot through his eye and

48:15

dollar bills strewn all across his

48:17

limp corpse. The relevance

48:19

of the dollar bills is still unclear.

48:25

To evade people dead and for

48:27

crime scenes to process, the Pike

48:30

County Sheriff's Department soon realized they

48:32

were not equipped to handle what

48:34

would turn into the most

48:36

extensive crime investigation the state

48:38

of Ohio had ever seen.

48:41

With 200 investigators full-time

48:44

collecting evidence and

48:46

following up leads, it appeared

48:48

that movement in the case had been

48:50

slow. Sheriff Charles Reeder,

48:52

who appears to be the lead

48:55

investigator as well as a press

48:57

spokesperson, tried to reassure

48:59

the community, but the

49:01

little town was divided, and

49:04

a former unknown fear had

49:06

crept into their previously simple

49:08

daily rural existence. Sheriff

49:11

Reeder would later be heavily criticized for

49:13

his handling of the case, including

49:16

that the fact that all four

49:18

trailers were lifted from their current

49:20

location and placed into a property

49:23

on which stood what would be referred

49:25

to as an evidence

49:27

warehouse. By moving

49:29

the homes, it is believed that

49:32

evidence was disturbed, and journalists would

49:34

find the gate to what was

49:36

supposed to be a secure location

49:39

unlocked, but the

49:41

sheriff would later have much bigger fish

49:43

to fry. In June of

49:45

2019, he would be

49:47

charged with tampering of evidence, and

49:50

the stealing of government funds to

49:52

feed a pesky little gambling addiction.

49:54

He would claim to have contracted

49:56

as a result of the pressure

49:58

this case caused him. He

50:01

would also publicly and emotionally plead

50:03

for the people of the county's

50:05

forgiveness. But I

50:07

think the penalties for people who steal

50:09

from taxpayers' money should have twice the

50:12

punishment, especially because of

50:14

their position of power and trust.

50:17

The disgraced sheriff was fired, but

50:19

all this happened in 2019. At

50:23

the time of the tragedy, he was still

50:25

sheriff, and he knew he had a massive

50:28

crime scene to process. He

50:30

was later, however, aware that more

50:32

boots on the ground were

50:34

needed, and thus the Ohio

50:36

Center of Criminal Investigation Bureau

50:38

was asked to assist in

50:40

the investigation. As

50:45

the community and remaining members of the

50:48

family tried to come to terms

50:50

with the devastation the mass murder

50:52

had caused, Attorney

50:54

General Mike Duane immediately

50:56

took lead of the investigation and

50:59

started releasing press releases. Due

51:01

to the fact that Bobby Joe and James were

51:04

the two people who found the victims, they

51:06

were immediately interviewed, and Bobby Joe

51:09

would be asked to take three

51:11

separate lie detector tests, which

51:13

she all passed. Her

51:16

brother James, on the other hand, failed

51:18

the lie detector tests, which

51:21

he was reluctant to take to start with, and

51:23

his resistance in cooperation did nothing

51:26

except put a bullseye on his

51:28

back. We now know

51:30

that a lie detector test is not

51:32

admissible in court and currently

51:35

viewed as junk science. Cops

51:38

tried to track his movements by

51:40

installing a tracking device on his

51:42

truck, but he discovered it

51:44

and removed it. He

51:47

would be charged with the vandalizing and

51:49

tampering of state property, but

51:51

the charges would be dismissed. Both

51:54

would, however, later be cleared of

51:56

any suspicions. As

52:02

investigation proceeded, it was discovered that

52:04

the family was also involved in

52:07

cock fighting. We'd

52:09

plantations in Sri as the

52:11

crime scenes all large enough

52:13

to indicate that the purpose

52:16

of the crops were distribution

52:18

instead of personal use. The

52:21

crop would have yielded the equivalent

52:24

of four hundred thousand dollars worth

52:26

of marijuana in Ohio. As the

52:28

time was about to pass, a

52:31

bill that would legalize the selling

52:33

and distribution for medical use. In

52:36

total, there were two hundred plants

52:38

located at the properties and each

52:41

estimated at about four hundred thousand

52:43

dollars and street value. The

52:46

possibility of a syndicate being

52:48

involved. Was. Briefly but

52:50

seriously considered but a seemed

52:53

unlikely since Cartels would have

52:55

murdered the children are two.

53:01

Months my Dwayne broke get this

53:03

news to the community. All efforts

53:05

to raise funds to help the

53:08

family to bury their loved ones

53:10

was stopped, and those who had

53:13

pledged money quickly retracted their offers.

53:16

Frankie and for Syria. It also

53:18

recently gotten into a heated argument

53:21

with another family which resulted in

53:23

a wild fist fight which only

53:25

ended after the grandfather of their

53:28

opponents pulled a shot gun and

53:30

fired it the air. but the

53:32

family with which the rodent family

53:35

and a disagreement were quickly eliminated

53:37

as suspects. At baffled

53:39

the investigators that the three children as

53:41

well as the dogs who never seem

53:44

to have alerted their owners of an

53:46

intruder or less to wise. There

53:49

appeared to be more than one

53:51

shooter, and the murder plan had

53:53

taken careful and sophisticated planning over

53:56

a period of time. All

53:58

the victims except for. The seemed to

54:01

have been killed in their sleep.

54:03

Chris, however, had been shot far

54:05

more times than any of the

54:08

other victims and their defensive wounds

54:10

on his arms including a shattered

54:13

bone from a gunshot wound. The

54:18

families of the victims were not the only ones

54:20

to reach out and ask for help. On

54:23

Angeles urging and even older

54:26

family seemed financially very secure.

54:28

Urged Jake to start a

54:30

goal fund to be with

54:32

a personal goal of twenty

54:35

thousand dollars. The

54:37

post that accompanied the request,

54:39

which apparently was made on

54:41

behalf of Sofia read as

54:43

follows: These were expenses

54:46

I was not supposed to have

54:48

of a supposed to spend time

54:50

with her and give her a

54:52

happy childhood. Sofia and I are

54:54

asked me for just enough to

54:56

settle the seas acquired as a

54:58

result of the horrible tragedy that

55:00

happened to her mommy. I hate

55:02

seeing my daughter cry. We

55:05

just wanted our lives back. The

55:08

request back fired because frankly people

55:11

felt offended by the request for

55:13

money from one of the wealthier

55:15

families in the county and made

55:17

by one of the main suspects

55:19

in the prime. Shortly

55:25

after the crimes or place and

55:27

while investigators were still piecing this

55:30

puzzling crime together, the Wagner family

55:32

decided to sell everything and moved

55:34

to Alaska. The most

55:37

struck everyone is odd, but they would

55:39

claim the plan had been in the

55:41

making for some time. not

55:43

too much is known about their

55:45

brief time in alaska the family

55:47

lived in a double trailer and

55:50

where the process of purchasing a

55:52

house within a couple of months

55:54

seems to me as the men

55:56

took up work in construction again

55:58

but the rumors in never did

56:00

followed. The members of the

56:02

Wagner family would just tell people they

56:04

are innocent and the only reason

56:06

they were so far from Ohio is

56:09

to give Sophia a better life. They

56:12

were regular members of their local parish

56:15

and it would be through the young

56:17

pastor there that Jake would meet his

56:20

wife. Elizabeth

56:24

or Beth Armour is another victim

56:26

in this awful tragedy. The

56:29

young Sunday school teacher and aspiring

56:31

artist had her reservations

56:33

when Jake started courting her

56:36

but she would claim Sophia stole her

56:38

heart and her pastor vouched

56:40

for the family claiming that all the

56:42

rumors doing the rounds were untrue. The

56:45

couple were married in May of 2018

56:48

and it did not take long for Jake to

56:50

start his shit again. She

56:52

was forced to hand over all

56:54

forms of identification as well

56:57

as passwords to all her accounts. The

57:00

isolation and verbal abuse soon

57:02

followed and it wasn't long

57:04

before Beth knew she had

57:06

made a terrible mistake. It

57:09

was only once she was in

57:11

Ohio with the Klan and they

57:13

accused her of betraying the family

57:15

that Beth realized nothing about the

57:17

family was as it seemed. She

57:20

was apparently kicked out and tried

57:22

hard to get a divorce from

57:24

Jake but because she was for

57:26

intents and purposes homeless and had

57:28

to couch surf she had

57:31

not been able to stay in one

57:33

county long enough to execute the divorce.

57:36

She made a Facebook post which

57:38

has since been removed to defend

57:40

herself and explained she knew about

57:42

the case which turned out

57:44

to be not much. Her

57:47

whereabouts have since been unknown and

57:50

with the reputation of the Wagner family the

57:52

way it's been hiding

57:54

away is perhaps not a bad idea.

58:00

suspicious action on their behalf is

58:02

the fact that Jake produced documents

58:04

to file for full custody of

58:07

Sophia six days after

58:09

the murders. Anyone

58:11

who has ever had to navigate

58:13

the legal system will know it's

58:15

a time-consuming maze with an incredible

58:17

amount of paperwork, yet Jake had

58:20

everything ready to go six

58:22

days after Sophia lost her mother. The

58:25

court did give him custody, and off

58:27

the Wagner family went to Alaska. He

58:30

would claim that he wanted to get

58:33

Sophia away from the terrible incident which

58:35

undoubtedly had changed her life. The

58:38

Wagner family were already looking like

58:40

likely suspects, but investigators

58:42

needed more evidence. They

58:45

soon found it in a box marked, important

58:48

stuff. It

58:50

was also well known that Billy and

58:53

Chris Sr. had a falling out in

58:55

April 2016 with

58:57

regards to a business venture that did not

58:59

work out. Homemade

59:03

silencers were also found in one of

59:05

the wells on the property the Wagner

59:07

family once owned. A

59:09

receipt for the purchase of the same

59:12

type of shoes the killers wore on

59:14

the day of the murder were also

59:16

discovered. Angela

59:18

was positively identified on

59:20

surveillance cameras at the

59:22

Walmart where she purchased

59:24

those exact shoes. It

59:27

would later come to light that

59:29

they wanted to frame James Manley

59:31

for the crime, but at the

59:33

time Angela told investigators she bought

59:35

them for her boys and since

59:37

they didn't like them she threw

59:39

them away. George and

59:41

Jake were also seen on cameras

59:43

at a Walmart buying magazine clips

59:46

and munition brass catchers

59:48

to catch suspended bullets,

59:51

bug detectors, and equipment to

59:53

make a homemade sound surprise.

59:56

Despite their careful planning of the crime,

59:58

the shooters had made mistake of

1:00:01

leaving behind three shell casings

1:00:03

with DNA on them. In

1:00:08

May of 2017, the Wagner

1:00:10

family returned to Pipeton. It's

1:00:13

believed that one of their relatives

1:00:16

was gravely ill and needed assistance

1:00:18

with settling affairs. Sympathies

1:00:20

for the family had waned, and

1:00:23

even distant relatives were complaining

1:00:25

about harassment. Rubbish

1:00:27

was dumped on their properties. Vehicles

1:00:30

were vandalized, and Angela

1:00:32

even had someone in a shop throw

1:00:34

a bottle at her back. Angela

1:00:37

continued to proclaim the family's innocence

1:00:40

and would frequently defend herself and

1:00:42

her family online and beg

1:00:45

people to leave them alone. The

1:00:49

numbers involved in this investigation were

1:00:51

staggering. Over 1100 tips

1:00:53

were received, and over 500 people were interviewed. Over

1:00:59

200 investigators were involved, and

1:01:02

over 200 warrants and subpoenas

1:01:04

were served. Over

1:01:07

200 pieces of evidence has

1:01:09

already been tested, and the

1:01:11

case accumulated over 350,000 case

1:01:15

and legal files. As

1:01:19

if this twisted tale could not

1:01:22

hold more surprises, one

1:01:24

of the folks in the

1:01:26

inner circle of the Wagner

1:01:29

family contacted investigators with information

1:01:31

about an assassination attempt the

1:01:33

family had planned. The three

1:01:36

targets of their wrath were

1:01:39

Attorney General Mike Duane, Sheriff

1:01:41

Reeder, and another one of the top

1:01:44

officials in the investigation. We still

1:01:47

don't know who this informer was, but

1:01:50

considering how close the family is,

1:01:52

this turn of events is surprising,

1:01:54

and people have rumored that it

1:01:56

is Jake's wife. The

1:01:59

prosecutor was felt by now, he

1:02:01

had enough evidence and the wheels

1:02:04

of justice started turning for the

1:02:06

victims of the second largest mass

1:02:08

murder, only exceeded by

1:02:10

the Pulse Massacre in the state

1:02:13

of Ohio to date. On

1:02:18

the return of the Wagner family and the

1:02:20

pending threat to officials, six

1:02:23

members were immediately arrested.

1:02:26

76-year-old Frederico Wagner, mother

1:02:28

of Billy, was arrested as well

1:02:31

as Aretha Newcomb, mother of Angela.

1:02:34

Both were charged with tampering with

1:02:36

evidence and hampering the

1:02:38

investigation, but Aretha, for

1:02:40

her part in forging the

1:02:42

papers Hannah May was supposed

1:02:44

to sign, was charged with

1:02:46

forgery. Angela, Billy, Jake,

1:02:49

and George were all charged with

1:02:51

the eight murders of the rodent

1:02:53

and gilly families. Billy

1:02:55

was arrested in a horse trailer

1:02:57

on his way to Kentucky and

1:03:00

George and Jake were intercepted at

1:03:02

an intersection. Angela,

1:03:04

who was perceived to be

1:03:06

the mastermind, Aretha and

1:03:09

Frederico were arrested at her home. The

1:03:12

charges of obstruction of justice

1:03:14

against Frederico and the additional

1:03:16

charge of forgery were, however,

1:03:19

later dropped. With

1:03:23

the death penalty on the table, it

1:03:25

was inevitable that the Wagner family would turn

1:03:27

on each other. It was,

1:03:30

however, a huge surprise when

1:03:32

26-year-old Jake turned out to be

1:03:34

the first one to flip, settling

1:03:37

for eight life sentences in return

1:03:39

for delivering evidence against the rest

1:03:42

of the family. As

1:03:44

he pled guilty to the murders, which

1:03:46

were read one by one, it was

1:03:49

hard not to notice a slight

1:03:51

hesitation when Hannah May's name was

1:03:53

read, which was followed

1:03:56

by what can only be described

1:03:58

as a smirk before he pled

1:04:00

guilty. He would eventually

1:04:02

admit to being the murderer of five

1:04:04

of the rodent family members. When

1:04:11

Jake turned on his

1:04:13

clan, 48-year-old matriarch Mama

1:04:15

Angela quickly did the

1:04:17

same and pled guilty to all the

1:04:19

charges against her. In her

1:04:22

statement, Angela admitted that she

1:04:24

was involved in the planning of the

1:04:26

murders and that she was

1:04:28

actually minding the children while the

1:04:30

crimes were taking place. During

1:04:33

her court appearance, she appeared

1:04:35

almost smug. She

1:04:37

received a 30-year sentence for her

1:04:39

part, but even behind

1:04:42

bars, she still tried to

1:04:44

control the narrative by constantly

1:04:46

contacting witnesses and trying to

1:04:48

influence their testimony. Authorities

1:04:51

got fed up with her meddling and

1:04:53

she was warned, and

1:04:55

all her phone, letter

1:04:57

writing, and visitor privileges

1:04:59

were suspended indefinitely. Part

1:05:02

of her plea deal included that just

1:05:04

like Jake, she would testify against her

1:05:07

husband and her son. On

1:05:13

the 3rd of May, 2023, George

1:05:16

Wagner went on trial, and

1:05:18

his defense would argue that the only

1:05:20

reason he was involved was to ensure

1:05:22

that his father does not kill his

1:05:24

brother. This would be

1:05:27

a very revealing time as well because

1:05:29

the hard and ugly facts would only

1:05:31

be revealed during his trial. The

1:05:34

family was described as almost

1:05:36

cult-like. On the surface, they

1:05:38

seemed to be a perfect little family,

1:05:41

but it was clear Angela ran the show.

1:05:45

As the boys grew older, she

1:05:47

gained more control, even

1:05:49

convincing Jake to resign from a job she

1:05:51

thought was not good enough for him. The

1:05:55

unusual dynamic would be the foundation

1:05:57

of the prosecution's case. Everything

1:06:00

was done together, from

1:06:02

finances to homeschooling. Every

1:06:05

decision was made as a family decision.

1:06:08

One of the FBI's agents

1:06:11

would testify that Tabitha

1:06:13

was systematically isolated and

1:06:15

distanced from the family until one night

1:06:17

when she had a fight with George

1:06:19

and his mother and Angela told

1:06:21

her she was going to kill her. Tabitha

1:06:24

ran away, hid in the

1:06:26

pouring rain until the sun rose, and

1:06:29

then fled to a gas station where

1:06:31

she made her first contact in many

1:06:34

years to her family. Her

1:06:36

family picked her up and she never went

1:06:38

back, but this was a wake-up call for

1:06:41

Hannah. At the hearing,

1:06:43

no bones were made about

1:06:45

the fact that Hannah eventually

1:06:47

followed Tabitha's lead and left

1:06:49

because of mainly domestic violence.

1:06:54

Her pregnancy with Charlie Gilly's child

1:06:56

was told to Jake and

1:06:58

his mother by her. During

1:07:01

the trial, the FBI agent

1:07:03

testified that shortly before the

1:07:05

homicide, Hannah made it clear

1:07:07

to Jake that they would never get back

1:07:09

together again. During this

1:07:11

time, Jake wanted custody of his

1:07:14

daughter, and Tabitha, after fighting for

1:07:16

custody of her son, would only

1:07:18

be given visitation rights, but

1:07:21

these visits would often be infrequent, and

1:07:23

when she tried to make arrangements,

1:07:26

the negotiations would be peppered with

1:07:28

insults. As

1:07:32

the forensic evidence with regards to

1:07:34

the ballistics tied all the murders

1:07:36

to the Wagner's, Tabitha

1:07:39

finally got full custody of her son.

1:07:42

Agent Schneider testified about wiretaps

1:07:45

which implicated him in the

1:07:47

murders. Angela's orchestration

1:07:49

was highlighted with regards to

1:07:51

the footwear evidence, and the

1:07:53

agent revealed that over 8,000

1:07:56

hours of evidence with regards to

1:07:58

interviews and wiretaps were

1:08:01

presented. At any

1:08:03

time, everyone was holding their breath for

1:08:05

George to bend the knee and take

1:08:08

a plea, but all he

1:08:10

wanted was to be put in isolation. As

1:08:13

the trial continued, George was

1:08:15

looking worse and worse. The

1:08:17

state believed that his entire purpose was

1:08:19

to be looked over, but

1:08:22

his lack of direct involvement convinced me

1:08:24

that they would not easily sentence him

1:08:26

to death. The

1:08:32

state highlighted the fact that Hannah was shot

1:08:35

in the face, disfiguring

1:08:37

her. The defense complained

1:08:39

that Elizabeth Wagner's location was

1:08:41

not known and therefore she

1:08:43

could be interviewed. She

1:08:46

was, however, in hiding and being

1:08:48

protected by the state because,

1:08:51

as a crucial state witness, both

1:08:53

felt her life was in danger.

1:08:55

The prosecution told a story that

1:08:57

was by now too familiar of a

1:09:00

young woman who was controlled. On

1:09:02

the night of their wedding, Jake insisted

1:09:04

on all her passwords. She

1:09:07

was accused by Angela of poisoning

1:09:09

their food and Jake and his

1:09:11

mom confronted her with accusations of

1:09:13

abuse. Jake told her if it

1:09:16

was true, he would beat her

1:09:18

with a bat. Elizabeth

1:09:21

knew she was being gaslighted, but

1:09:23

like any other woman in this situation, leaving

1:09:26

would take time.

1:09:28

The brother of George opted

1:09:31

not to have his testimony recorded,

1:09:33

and his testimony was shocking. He

1:09:36

told the court that he had

1:09:38

a rearranged Hannah's body so that

1:09:40

her baby would suckle on her

1:09:42

dying or dead mother. Jake

1:09:45

told the prosecution that after they

1:09:47

had left the first crime scene,

1:09:49

his father ran out of Chris's

1:09:51

trailer shouting, I've just shot and

1:09:53

killed my best friend. He said

1:09:56

that he killed Dana first because he

1:09:59

was worth it. she

1:10:01

would get up when the baby started crying.

1:10:07

Jake said it was difficult for him to

1:10:09

testify against his family and that he wanted

1:10:11

nothing more than for all of them to

1:10:14

go home. He mouthed

1:10:16

without sound to the

1:10:18

rodent family, I'm sorry.

1:10:22

He admitted that they were

1:10:25

a crime family with activities

1:10:27

ranging from arson to stealing

1:10:29

high-priced items. He

1:10:31

would steal everything from fuel

1:10:33

to livestock to cars and

1:10:36

that he learned to pick a lock at a

1:10:38

very young age. Jake had

1:10:40

been recycled into a life of crime. He admitted

1:10:43

that his relationship with Hannah was

1:10:45

violent but he refused to

1:10:47

admit that he had choked her. After

1:10:50

the breakup, Jake said that he and his mother

1:10:52

were concerned about the safety of

1:10:54

his daughter when Hannah started dating

1:10:56

Corey, whom they suspected of

1:10:59

being a drug dealer. He was

1:11:01

concerned that his daughter was going to be

1:11:03

molested and that the murder

1:11:05

plot took flame when they

1:11:07

became aware of the DM when

1:11:09

Hannah said that his family would

1:11:11

have to kill her before she

1:11:13

would give up custody. The

1:11:16

original idea was to frame Corey and

1:11:19

that the first plan was to make

1:11:21

it look like a murder suicide. Jake

1:11:27

told the court that the murderers got

1:11:29

home after 4 a.m. and

1:11:32

immediately burned their clothes. He

1:11:34

sawed the guns in half and tried

1:11:37

to melt them with a blowtorch but

1:11:39

eventually gave up and just removed the

1:11:41

serial numbers. He and George

1:11:43

then buried the parts under a beam in

1:11:45

the barn. He said he

1:11:48

felt guilty from the beginning and that

1:11:50

he did not speak or make eye

1:11:52

contact with anyone in the house.

1:11:58

When Angela took the stand, she She made

1:12:00

no effort to disguise her love for her

1:12:02

family. As a deathly

1:12:04

quiet court paid attention to her

1:12:06

testimony, she refused to look at

1:12:09

George. She never looked at

1:12:11

George. She opted out

1:12:13

of having her testimony recorded on video.

1:12:16

She admitted her part in the crimes

1:12:18

without hesitation. She was

1:12:20

questioned about the way she raised her

1:12:22

children, and she affirmed the

1:12:24

crimes Jake laid out to the court

1:12:27

that the family committed. Not

1:12:29

much new was learned, but one

1:12:32

thing that stood out was when she

1:12:34

was asked about the arson. She

1:12:37

said, yes, but

1:12:39

who gives a damn? As

1:12:45

expected, George claimed he had

1:12:47

nothing to do with the actual murders. His

1:12:50

defense team, who were all

1:12:53

ready to admit his involvement, went

1:12:55

back into his childhood and tried

1:12:57

to paint a compassionate picture, but

1:13:00

the jury saw through it. He

1:13:02

was sentenced to life in prison

1:13:04

without the possibility of parole a

1:13:06

month after the trial began. We

1:13:13

thought about waiting for Billy Wagner's trial to

1:13:15

begin in the beginning of 2025, but what

1:13:19

is really left to be said? The

1:13:21

only question will be whether

1:13:23

he, when, and not if,

1:13:26

is found guilty. Be

1:13:29

sentenced to death or get life without parole.

1:13:32

The death penalty has become a bargaining chip,

1:13:34

but I doubt Billy is the kind who

1:13:36

will bend the knee, but facing

1:13:39

your own mortality can make a

1:13:41

person think twice about your

1:13:43

steadfast beliefs. Once

1:13:45

his verdict is in, we will

1:13:47

definitely follow up, but frankly,

1:13:49

the last person to be executed by lethal

1:13:51

injection in Ohio was in 2018, and more

1:13:54

and more states are not following

1:13:58

through with this. sentence. If

1:14:01

you want more info on the death penalty, I

1:14:04

highly recommend you listen to our episode

1:14:06

on the death penalty and

1:14:08

its history, which we published

1:14:10

last year. What

1:14:16

infuriates me the most is

1:14:18

the arrogance and impunity with

1:14:20

which the Wagner family committed

1:14:22

this diabolical crime. Not

1:14:25

for one moment did any of these

1:14:27

narcissists think of the impact their crimes

1:14:30

and the possibility of being caught would

1:14:32

have on their children. As

1:14:34

soon as the arrests were made,

1:14:36

Sophia, the nucleus at the center

1:14:39

of this disaster, was

1:14:41

whisked away and placed into

1:14:43

protective custody. Kylie

1:14:45

was placed with Corey's family since

1:14:47

he was the biological father and

1:14:50

Brantley and Ruger were placed

1:14:53

with relatives. It's unclear

1:14:55

where George's young son currently

1:14:57

is, but the children who

1:14:59

his whereabouts are known seem to be

1:15:02

doing well. All in

1:15:04

all, five very young children's

1:15:06

realities were forever altered the

1:15:08

day of the massacre. I

1:15:11

doubt the babies will remember any of the

1:15:13

crimes they lived through, but I have to

1:15:15

wonder how much Brantley

1:15:17

remembered and whether the prosecution will

1:15:19

call him to the stand as

1:15:22

a witness now that he

1:15:24

is a little older. Regardless,

1:15:26

at the end of the day, it is

1:15:29

the children involved that have to pay the

1:15:31

price of a family's

1:15:33

pitifulness. And even though

1:15:35

justice is in the process of being served,

1:15:38

five little lives had the course of

1:15:40

their lives changed forever.

1:15:46

This episode was written by Miss Demeanour,

1:15:48

aka Penny Morris.

1:15:53

Thank you for listening to Human Monsters. Bye

1:15:55

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