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funeral home was hiding a very

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to cover up Body Brokers, subscribe

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0:25

episodes, or listen weekly wherever you

0:27

get your podcasts. Hey

0:37

kids, I'd like to introduce you to a

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new podcast you're going to love. On

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behalf of myself, Morgan Rector of

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0:46

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0:49

I'd like to ask you this question. Do you

0:51

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0:54

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4:10

right everybody, welcome to the true crime

4:12

news as usual. I'm

4:14

Morgan Rector and

4:17

Michelle Gower joins us as well. And

4:22

how would you like to start off this

4:24

broadcast? Oh

4:26

God, I have no idea. I'm so

4:28

tired. Why are you leaving

4:31

this to me? Would

4:33

you like it more of a build up? Wait for

4:35

me to go through my first story

4:37

and then collect your

4:40

energies and collect your thoughts. Let's

4:43

just put it this way. The

4:45

viewers are in for some

4:48

pretty interesting stories. We're

4:50

coming out swinging after being on

4:52

hiatus. Oh same here. Mine

4:55

was very fucked up. Leave me. Yes,

4:58

mine are. So, okay,

5:01

let's just get into it. All

5:03

right, I'll go first then. All right.

5:06

The first one is, the

5:08

headline goes, Corner never

5:11

saw a homicide scene like

5:13

Lacey Fletcher. Woman

5:15

found melted to couch.

5:18

It still bothers me today. Oh

5:20

God. So the coroner called

5:22

to examine Lacey Fletcher after her

5:24

body was found, as I

5:27

said, melted in a waste filled

5:29

crater in her family's couch, has

5:32

never seen a homicide like this and

5:34

is still disturbed by what he saw.

5:37

Fletcher 36 was found covered

5:39

in urine and feces and

5:42

fused to the maggot

5:44

ridden couch at

5:46

her parents East Feliciana

5:49

Louisiana home in

5:51

January 2022. And

5:54

this week, Sheila and Clay

5:57

Fletcher pleaded no contest to

5:59

no. manslaughter over

6:02

her horrifying death. Two

6:04

manslaughter over her horrifying death. That was

6:06

early this year, I think it was

6:08

in January. I've

6:12

seen every kind of death there is. I've

6:14

never seen a homicide like this. I

6:16

have never seen a human being literally

6:19

tortured and allowed to die

6:21

while she is alive. Dr.

6:24

Ewell Bickham told

6:26

News Nations Ashley

6:28

Banfield Thursday. I've

6:31

never seen that in my life.

6:33

Lacey did not decompose. She

6:35

rotted in her own body, in

6:38

that hole, in that sewer,

6:41

in the couch. So

6:43

prosecutors said that

6:45

Fletcher had lain there, wasting

6:47

away and in great suffering

6:50

for about 12 years and

6:53

blamed her parents for the neglect. She

6:55

weighed 100 pounds at the time of her death.

6:58

She had reportedly been diagnosed with

7:01

autism and her parents claim she

7:03

refused to eat when they tried

7:05

to feed her, leading to

7:07

her being unable to leave the couch

7:10

and her eventual death. Strangely,

7:13

prior photos show a young

7:16

and bright looking Fletcher at

7:18

school at Brownsville Baptist Academy

7:21

where she was on the

7:23

volleyball team before she was

7:25

apparently homeschooled after 9th

7:27

grade. See, I'm not a

7:29

big believer in homeschooling because you never know what

7:31

that could lead to. This is

7:33

a good example. A

7:36

neighbor, RobertBlades61 said she was

7:39

just a normal, fun kid

7:41

before vanishing from view 15

7:44

years ago after her parents

7:46

said she had also developed

7:48

anxiety and took her to

7:50

psychologists. Bickham

7:53

told News Nation he was still trying

7:55

to process the awful scene he witnessed

7:58

and was horrified by the smell in

8:00

the house before even got to

8:02

Fletcher's body. When I walked

8:04

in, the house smelled

8:06

of a stench of, it smelled

8:10

like a sewer or septic

8:12

tank and also a

8:14

smell of death. He said, I've

8:16

never smelled that in my life.

8:19

I've dealt with decomposed bodies. I've

8:21

dealt with all sorts of death,

8:24

degradation, whatever. Never experienced

8:26

this in all of

8:28

my career. Vikum said

8:30

Fletcher's parents were in the house when

8:33

he arrived. Her father was

8:35

emotionless while her mother sat with

8:37

her head between her knees and

8:40

shed a tear or two.

8:42

What he found in the room

8:45

to their left shocked him and

8:47

continues to traumatize him, he said.

8:49

I mean, obviously it did. He keeps saying it

8:52

over and over. It still

8:55

bothers me today. Like I said,

8:57

I've seen every kind of death

8:59

there is. I've seen elderly people

9:01

die of natural causes. I've seen

9:03

suicides, homicides. I've seen everything there

9:05

is. Vikum said there was

9:08

no evidence that Fletcher was being

9:10

fed except for a small bag

9:12

of hard candy nearby. He

9:15

said her stomach contained both yellow

9:17

foam from the couch and

9:20

feces. So you take

9:22

it from there, he said. Vikum

9:24

also told News Nation that he did

9:26

not believe Sheila and Clay Fletcher lived

9:29

with their daughter in the house. I

9:32

don't believe they were living in the

9:34

home. You could not live in the

9:36

house. Nobody could stand the stench, to

9:38

be honest with you. I think there

9:40

was something adjacent. Lazy

9:43

Fletcher had sores and

9:45

bone visible when she

9:47

was found and

9:49

had been infested with maggots, including

9:51

around her genitals. While she was

9:54

still alive, documents obtained

9:56

from the daily mail indicate

9:58

her parents were initially

10:00

arrested in January 2022 after

10:03

Fletcher was discovered dead inside

10:05

the hole in the couch.

10:08

The couple who faced second-degree

10:11

murder charges pleaded no contest

10:13

Monday to reduced charges of

10:16

manslaughter. The Fletchers spent almost

10:18

18 months denying

10:20

second-degree murder after being

10:22

indicted twice by a

10:25

grand jury in Clinton,

10:27

Louisiana. They had faced

10:29

the possibility of life in prison

10:31

without parole if convicted at a

10:33

trial due to start this week.

10:36

They were out on bond until

10:38

February 20th. Their next court hearing

10:41

is at the East Feliciana Courthouse

10:43

on March 20th. So

10:46

that's not over. So you see,

10:48

I'm not a big fan of homeschooling

10:51

because you never know what children

10:53

could be subjected to once they're

10:55

isolated like that. Yeah. Like

10:59

the biggest tool used by an

11:01

abuser is isolation. And

11:04

you know, like during COVID, with

11:06

so many kids at home from

11:09

school, a lot of

11:11

them ended up being abused because if

11:13

they came from abusive homes, then

11:16

there were no mandated reporters to

11:18

report it, right? Right. Yeah.

11:23

I mean, this is an extreme example, of course.

11:25

I just couldn't, I, I, I've seen a couple

11:27

clips, news clips

11:29

about this, and I'm pretty

11:31

sure I saw people

11:34

in biohazard suits pulling up pieces of the

11:39

couch. And,

11:42

oh, God.

11:44

I could not imagine.

11:47

That's a nightmare

11:49

joke. Did they not let her

11:51

get off the couch? That's what I'm wondering. Like how?

11:54

Well, so what it sounds like

11:56

is they withheld food from her

11:58

other than like bullsh- candy

12:01

and when it

12:04

honestly does not take long for your

12:06

muscles to grow weak from misuse

12:10

like I've been in the ICU for

12:12

like a week before and even after

12:14

like three days I had to

12:16

use Walker just because

12:18

I was laid up in bed 24-7 not using

12:22

my muscles and I had gone through a lot of

12:24

trauma so my body was just like holy shit but

12:27

so it sounds like if they

12:29

were withholding the bare

12:32

basics from her yeah she's going to naturally

12:34

grow weak from that and then it's gonna

12:36

get to a point where no she can't

12:38

get off the couch and she probably could

12:41

barely move so she was just

12:43

stuck there and then that was just

12:46

you know that leads to bed sores

12:48

if she's not moving around you know

12:50

and then those get infected and then

12:52

she's also using the bathroom on the

12:54

couch so it's like literally

12:57

forming her own

12:59

little like cesspool in

13:02

the sofa and the fact that she had

13:04

to fucking eat the couch just

13:06

to have something in her stomach like

13:10

they better never get out she

13:13

must not have been a high-functioning

13:15

autistic because if you

13:17

could manage to force her to stay

13:19

in a couch for 12 years

13:23

maybe she was like a lower functioning

13:26

it's hard to say and it could just

13:28

be from muscle atrophy if her

13:30

muscles grew two weeks she's not gonna be able

13:32

to do anything she probably couldn't even pull herself

13:34

up to sit upright yeah

13:36

that too yeah so then

13:39

she's like fully you know at the

13:41

mercy of whoever is caring for her

13:43

and Andy

13:46

though like I don't get

13:48

that like of all the

13:51

random things yeah

13:53

this is a couch and

13:56

yeah yeah foam and more girl

13:58

foam and feces yeah This

14:01

is right up there with the

14:03

girl in the closet, like the

14:05

desperation to eat and eating anything.

14:09

All right.

14:15

Another parent of the year award coming out

14:17

here. Atlanta mom accused of

14:20

killing two sons by putting them in

14:22

an oven and turning it on Wilson

14:24

trial. Oh man. A

14:28

mother's accused of killing her two young children

14:30

by placing them in an oven and leaving

14:32

them for a long period of time is

14:34

going to stand trial after waving her plea

14:36

hearing. WAGATV reports, LaMora

14:39

Williams did not stand before Fulton

14:41

County judge for her hearing, meaning

14:43

that a court date for her

14:45

trial will be scheduled at another

14:47

time. Prosecutors charged Williams

14:49

with two counts of murder, four

14:51

counts of felony murder, two counts

14:54

of first degree cruelty to children,

14:56

three counts of aggravated assault, two

14:58

counts of concealing the death of

15:00

another, and one count each of

15:02

second degree cruelty to children, making

15:04

full statements, obstruction of a law

15:06

enforcement officer and battery causing substantial

15:08

physical harm in connection with the

15:10

death of her sons, Jakarta Penn,

15:12

who was one and Chianti Penn,

15:14

who was two. She's been

15:16

in custody since October of 2017. According

15:20

to the arrest warrant cited by WAGA,

15:23

on October 13th, 2017, Williams called Atlanta

15:27

police at approximately 11 PM and reported

15:29

she came home from work and found

15:31

her two young sons dead in the

15:33

kitchen. She allegedly said a

15:36

caregiver watched the boys while she was out,

15:38

but a caregiver was not anywhere to be

15:40

found. She reportedly said in the

15:42

911 call, quote, when

15:44

I came in, the stove was laying on

15:46

my son on my youngest son's head and

15:48

my other son was laid out on the

15:50

floor with his brains out on the floor.

15:54

Williams also asked the dispatcher for help

15:56

because she didn't quote, want to get

15:58

locked up because this is no. not

16:00

my fault. Prior to

16:02

calling 911, Williams allegedly called

16:04

Jakarta and Chianti's father and

16:06

showed him the boy's bodies

16:08

via a video call. So

16:12

she FaceTimed their dad, showing

16:14

them their dead bodies. The

16:17

Atlanta Journal Constitution, which also cites

16:19

the warrant, reports that Atlanta police

16:22

noted the two boys, quote, received

16:24

burn marks on their bodies at

16:26

some point, possibly from the stove. Investigators

16:29

allege Williams killed Chianti and Jakarta by

16:31

placing them in an oven and turning

16:33

it on. Another child was

16:35

at the home at the same time the

16:37

little boys were killed, but he was unharmed.

16:40

Williams' fourth child, a six-year-old girl,

16:42

was not at home. Williams'

16:45

next court date is also not currently

16:47

available via public records. Wow.

16:52

Just put them in the oven. Does it

16:54

didn't say what temperature it was? No,

16:58

we don't have details like that just yet. Oh,

17:01

God. Wow.

17:04

I'm kind of

17:06

speechless for a moment. I'm also kind

17:09

of reminded of the video I saw

17:11

online. This guy was babysitting

17:13

a kid who was about that age

17:15

and he put some

17:17

money. He was in a laundromat. He put some

17:20

money in a washer and

17:22

he put the kid in the

17:24

washer. And what he didn't count

17:26

on is that the door

17:28

would lock and he started spinning

17:30

the kid around and they had to get

17:33

an employee to come and unplug

17:35

the machine. And the

17:37

laundromat's employees are not usually around, so

17:39

they were lucky. But

17:42

wow, this is really

17:44

fucked up. Yeah, so those

17:46

kids, yeah, they didn't obviously didn't survive

17:48

that. So she put

17:51

them in the oven and then she put

17:53

the oven on top of them afterwards

17:55

to make it look like it. I

17:58

don't know. I don't know. I

18:00

don't have any clarifying details

18:02

about exactly what transpired. It

18:05

sounds like maybe she started

18:07

off by putting them in the oven

18:09

and maybe she didn't

18:11

count on them not dying right away.

18:14

I don't know. And then she took her,

18:17

took it into other means because I mean,

18:19

if she actually knocked the stove or tipped

18:21

it onto her

18:23

child, that would account for

18:25

what she quote unquote said

18:28

was all over the floor. So

18:30

I guess that was her way of saying,

18:32

I'm not a complete psycho. I

18:35

just tipped it over on them. I didn't bake

18:37

them. I just don't.

18:41

Why would an innocent person straight out tell the

18:43

police in a call, I need help because I

18:45

didn't do this. Shouldn't your

18:47

first thought be like, holy shit,

18:49

someone come get my kid. Someone

18:53

come try to help. Oh

18:55

yeah, that's a giveaway right away that she

18:58

feels no remorse about it and that. Well,

19:01

and then to be able to FaceTime. Yeah,

19:04

yeah. Or video call someone

19:06

and show them. Check it

19:08

out. No, no.

19:11

God. Fucking

19:13

gross. All

19:15

right, what do you got? So some

19:17

of the, so this is a

19:20

completely different kind of topic. So from some

19:22

of the most fucked up parents in the

19:25

world, um, to another part of the world,

19:27

my part of the world, Canada. So

19:29

we kind of have a reputation for being

19:31

very liberal and tolerant, but actually

19:33

hate crimes have been on the

19:35

rise here. So this article is about that.

19:38

Hate crime reports reach record high

19:40

data shows ties to quality of

19:42

life. The impact of hate

19:44

crimes may have a ripple effect beyond

19:47

the victims in Canada. People

19:49

who live in Canadian cities have had high

19:51

rates of hate crimes. We're

19:54

less likely to report positive physical

19:57

and mental health compared with people

19:59

and other. of the country, according

20:02

to Statistics Canada. In

20:04

a recent study released Thursday, Statistics

20:06

Canada said it found that fewer

20:08

Canadians, 46%, in these areas that

20:12

saw more hate crimes reported

20:15

excellent or very good mental health,

20:17

compared with other residents, 50%. Hate

20:21

crimes affect more than just

20:23

the individuals who experienced them,

20:25

wrote Stats Can on its

20:28

website, communities that identify with

20:30

the individual may feel vulnerable

20:34

and fearful that they could be targeted

20:36

next. Beyond the targeted

20:38

population, the effects of

20:40

hate crimes may also

20:43

negatively impact social cohesion

20:46

and sense of belonging for other

20:48

people living in affected areas. The

20:51

study explored the connections between the police

20:54

reported hate crimes and

20:56

social impacts and trends.

20:59

The study generally found that

21:01

areas with more hate crimes

21:03

saw poorer scores for quality

21:05

of life indicators. However,

21:08

Stats Can notes that the study

21:10

didn't measure whether the

21:12

poorer quality of life outcomes were

21:14

caused by experiences related

21:16

to hate crimes or

21:19

contributed to conditions leading

21:21

to hate crimes. Rachel

21:25

Cio Menes, an

21:28

Ottawa-based analyst at

21:30

Statistics Canada who worked on

21:33

the report, said the findings

21:35

are statistically significant. She

21:38

believes it was the first time

21:40

Statistics Canada used quality of life

21:42

indicators used to measure

21:44

how well Canadians are doing

21:46

with income, healthcare access, air

21:49

quality, mental and physical health,

21:52

among other criteria in

21:54

a study about hate crimes. how

22:00

many different quality of life indicators

22:03

were lower in high hate

22:05

crime areas. There has to

22:07

be some sort of relationship. She

22:10

said in a phone interview with CTV

22:12

News, we can't say whether hate crimes

22:14

cause bad quality of life or bad

22:16

quality of life causes hate crimes. We

22:19

just know that it's a plausible relationship.

22:22

Among Canadians living in high

22:24

hate crime areas, 51% reported

22:26

excellent or good physical health

22:28

compared with the 54% of

22:30

those in other cities. What's

22:34

more, stats can found that

22:36

fewer women and racialized people

22:38

reported positive mental health in

22:41

cities with high hate crime

22:43

rates. Assault

22:45

on victims identity, individuals

22:48

subjected to hate crimes based

22:50

on their race, ethnicity, religion

22:53

or a similar characteristic,

22:56

may experience heightened psychological

22:58

distress. This

23:01

is because such incidents represent an

23:03

assault on a fundamental part of

23:05

the victim's personal identity. The

23:08

study comes after the total number of hate

23:10

crimes climbed to a record high of 3,576

23:15

incidents reported to police in

23:17

Canada for 2022. The

23:20

rate of hate crimes nationally almost doubled in 2022

23:22

from 2019 with 9.2 incidents per

23:28

100,000 population in 2022 compared with 5.2 in 2019. The

23:37

rest of the article is pretty much the same as that. I

23:41

feel like one thing maybe that causes

23:44

this uptick and maybe it's the same

23:46

in the United States too is it

23:49

seems to be a tendency in the media mostly on

23:51

the internet I guess to rationalize

23:56

bigotry. There's

23:58

a lot of people. in certain areas

24:00

of the media are doing that. And

24:03

I think that gives certain people

24:06

who'd be inclined to carry out hate crimes the

24:09

tendency to do it, like

24:11

they feel. Well,

24:13

currently there's, I'm

24:15

sure you guys have heard about it. There

24:17

was a transgender student who was assaulted

24:20

in a school bathroom and

24:24

the state they lived in regulated,

24:26

they were the superintendent of that

24:29

school system was against transgender care,

24:32

how they're allowed to go to certain bathrooms.

24:34

Well, no, they have to go to the

24:36

original bathroom that their birth gender

24:39

is affiliated with. And this child got

24:41

assaulted in the bathroom, didn't immediately get

24:43

help and end up dying as a

24:45

result of the injuries the next day.

24:48

And there was really nothing

24:50

done by the school or

24:52

even the superintendent. And

24:55

it's caused a huge uproar across

24:57

the country. And now they're gunning

25:00

for the superintendent's job because they're

25:02

not providing safe spaces for these

25:04

kids. And then, you know,

25:07

incidents occur at school and

25:10

they're not holding people accountable or

25:12

responsible. And, you know, they

25:15

don't approve of it anyway. So they

25:17

just, they're not doing their part to

25:20

keep everybody safe. Yeah.

25:24

Because they let their personal beliefs get in the

25:26

way. And it's, yeah. People,

25:31

yeah, people avoid accountability

25:33

or find a way

25:35

to excuse it, I guess, by

25:37

through semantics, you know, like through

25:40

language. I mean, obviously they know you

25:42

can't use, just use slurs

25:44

anymore. So find ways

25:46

to kind of skirt around

25:48

it, but what they're still saying is

25:51

they're still using exclusionary language.

25:56

Yeah, it's, I

25:59

can understand it being. an increasing

26:01

concern everywhere and I

26:03

just yeah I

26:06

wish I had you know

26:08

and something I could say

26:10

that would help you know but there's you know

26:13

personally I I don't see too much of

26:15

it in the community I live in I

26:18

but I live in a smaller town and

26:21

I mean it is diverse in its

26:23

ways but when

26:25

it comes to like gender

26:27

identity and sexual orientation like

26:30

I see a gamut of it but

26:37

I mean in the schools here

26:39

it seems to be more understood

26:41

and accepted versus

26:43

that you know like the

26:46

older generations who are

26:49

the ones voting and stuff

26:51

like that like they don't

26:53

agree with it still but the

26:55

younger generations are coming around to

26:58

it and being more inclusive and

27:00

understanding and accepting and so there's

27:02

kind of a divide it's weird but

27:04

I personally usually don't ever see anything

27:07

about that you know

27:09

the most the most we see on

27:11

a regular basis are the people protesting

27:13

abortion outside the Planned Parenthood clinics oh

27:16

yeah that's that's every year well

27:22

high school is still pretty rough place

27:24

though isn't it I mean it's still

27:26

it depends on the school

27:29

too yeah it depends

27:31

on what did you know like what city

27:33

school district you're in some schools are a

27:35

lot worse than others and then

27:38

surprisingly like they're rough in different

27:40

ways like the school I end

27:42

up going to when I moved here was like

27:44

almost 50 50 black

27:46

and white and the school I grew

27:48

up like the school system I grew up going

27:50

to had more diverse racial

27:53

diversity it wasn't just 50 50 and even

27:55

with that 50 50 Like,

28:01

everyone was still just cool with each other. As

28:03

long as you were an asshole, like, it

28:05

didn't matter, you know, what you identified as,

28:08

how you dressed, you know, that kind of

28:10

stuff. So. Yeah.

28:13

Well, in these times when there's

28:16

so much, you know, economic strife,

28:19

there's a lot of tribalism that that kind

28:21

of thing tends to crop up quite a

28:23

bit. And

28:25

in God, there's so much poverty now,

28:27

it's really intense. Yeah. Actually,

28:32

I saw some footage from Ohio

28:34

where there are these ghost towns

28:36

where just just dozens

28:39

of houses that have been abandoned and

28:42

the factories have closed

28:44

down because these places have become

28:46

no-go zones. And

28:50

so in that kind of environment,

28:53

you know, discrimination can go up and yeah,

28:57

racism can go up and

29:00

all that kind of stuff because. Yeah,

29:04

we're living in hard times, man. That's

29:07

putting it so lightly. Yeah.

29:09

And it's not even scraping the surface, you

29:11

know. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

29:14

The town I live in was

29:16

one of those big industrial towns back

29:18

probably, you know, in the

29:20

early 1900s through at least the 50s. And

29:23

then as time went on, the major factories

29:26

shut down, those buildings

29:28

got demolished. And depending on

29:30

where you're at in town, yes, there

29:32

are a lot of abandoned houses and

29:35

condemned houses. But

29:37

despite all that, it's kind

29:39

of interesting that where

29:41

I live now is like starting to

29:43

turn itself around. And it

29:45

seems like like my age group of

29:48

individuals and people like maybe 10 years

29:50

older are starting to

29:52

invest back in town. Whereas

29:55

before, like no one was willing to put in

29:57

the effort and the time to kind of be

29:59

you. to justify everything and kind of

30:01

re, you know, bring

30:04

everything back to life. And it's slowly

30:06

happening. So it's been

30:08

super interesting. But despite all that,

30:10

you still see homelessness, you still

30:13

hear about the shootings, and there's

30:16

drug activity and gang activity and

30:18

the violence and, you know, threats

30:21

of school lockdowns and shit like that.

30:23

So, and I

30:25

hope things have turned around for the sextants, but

30:29

truly do. From

30:32

what I understand, distant family who

30:34

share their name do not affiliate

30:36

with them. They just prefer to

30:39

act like that never

30:41

happened. There's a curt. They, they,

30:44

oh yeah, of course. Yeah.

30:47

There's no family reunion there. And

30:55

the grocery store, I'm at the

30:57

combination. Now, so on and grocery

30:59

store. She got the nail salon

31:02

and the grocery store. I'm at

31:04

the combination. Loves a lot of

31:07

grocery stores. What do you do in the

31:09

car? Still live it through my door. acrylics

31:13

and the grocery store. Have

31:21

you ever wondered what it's like to witness

31:23

a murder? For it's grabbed the

31:25

knife and then to stab Johnny

31:27

in one motion. Or how it feels

31:30

to be shot. I was immediately hit

31:32

by a barrage of bullets. Or how

31:34

you would react if your spouse hired

31:36

someone to kill you. And he was

31:38

to put me in a grave with

31:40

a bullet in one of my head.

31:42

These are the stories you'll hear on

31:45

the podcast called, what was that like?

31:47

True stories told by the actual person

31:49

who went through it. You'll

31:51

hear from a stalking victim came back upstairs. And

31:53

when I came back and turned the corner, that's

31:55

where I ran. My mom's daddy. There you'll hear

31:57

from a man who was kidnapped and. I

32:01

would do anything say anything to

32:04

simply get away and you'll

32:06

hear actual 911 call Real

32:13

people in unreal situations Search

32:16

for what was that like on any

32:18

podcast app or at what was

32:20

that like dot com? On

32:24

a hot summer night in 1988

32:27

Jane Barosky was stabbed 27

32:30

times by an unknown man. She

32:32

was seven months pregnant My

32:35

name is Jane Barosky I survived

32:37

and I remember everything Jane

32:40

is the lone survivor of the valley killer

32:43

who proud the borderland of Vermont and New

32:45

Hampshire and murdered at least eight other women

32:48

I'm your host Jennifer Amell, and

32:51

this is dark Valley Jane

32:53

and I didn't set out to solve this but

32:56

in the course of a two-year investigation This

32:59

happened You know,

33:01

the police aren't going to be happy with

33:03

me sharing this not about secrets anymore It's

33:05

not about hiding connecting this person not only

33:08

to my sister's murder, but to the other

33:10

murders as well Join

33:12

the search for America's unknown serial

33:15

killer Subscribe to dark

33:17

Valley and binge the entire 12 episodes

33:19

of season one All

33:23

right, yeah, so what's

33:25

your third story? That's my second story

33:29

That was your second. No, I'm on to

33:31

this is Alright,

33:34

so we're getting away from evil

33:36

moms Wyoming

33:38

woman disappears after receiving

33:41

love letters from ex-employee

33:44

This one's kind of interesting when I was reading it.

33:46

Oh my god, man, and it's still ongoing too So

33:49

Chris Richardson who was a very rich

33:52

widow suddenly goes missing and basically

33:54

disappears into thin air in Casper,

33:57

Wyoming She was

33:59

last seen alive on a chilly October evening in

34:01

2014 around 5.30 p.m. It

34:05

was described that she was seen at her mailbox getting

34:07

her mail and then a next door neighbor of hers

34:09

saw her pull her car into the garage as

34:12

her daughter Amber reports. That

34:15

night she came by my house to bring me

34:17

a birthday card because it was the daughter's birthday and

34:20

just to tell me to have a great night

34:22

and then she left and went home said Amber. It

34:24

was the normal routine she gave my kids a

34:26

kiss and said I'll talk to you guys tomorrow. The

34:29

next morning though Chris Richardson was a no show

34:31

at work. Amber and her husband

34:33

Pete raced to Chris's home which was just around

34:35

the corner. When I saw her car

34:37

still sitting in the garage I knew something wasn't right.

34:40

Inside the house sheer panic sets in as

34:43

Amber and Pete searched room to room. Everything,

34:46

a purse sitting on the

34:48

kitchen counter was $700 in it,

34:50

her driver's license, cell phone, passport,

34:52

birth certificate, suitcases, clothes, everything

34:55

was still intact. Inside

34:57

there were no signs of a struggle, there

34:59

were no signs of any type of foul

35:01

play or that anything had happened. Her cell

35:03

phone was laying on her bed. Again

35:06

she was an owner operator of a

35:08

trucking company, a pretty large

35:10

trucking company here in Casper, Wyoming and

35:13

all the trucks have to be dispatched

35:15

through her. That cell phone

35:17

is the way she got it to a person

35:19

that's renting a company and that's the only way

35:21

you can make money is to have that cell

35:23

phone. That is very suspicious

35:26

said Hatcher. As

35:28

detectives comb through the trucking company's

35:30

financial record books, that's when they

35:33

made an explosive discovery between the

35:35

bills and invoices they found, love

35:37

letters, and they were all addressed to

35:40

Chris. So the entire

35:42

focus of the investigation decides to shift

35:44

toward this man the police said had

35:46

an obsession with Chris Richardson. The

35:48

letters are from a man named Bud Boils. He

35:51

was a truck driver for Richardson trucking and

35:53

he had worked for them for a while

35:56

said Detective Hatcher. Over the

35:58

years he got a friendship with a law the driver. and

36:00

Chris Richardson again, but

36:03

his kind of went a little more than

36:05

the other drivers. He wanted to pursue something

36:07

more romantic with her. Chris's

36:10

children tell Jason Matera that they

36:12

knew about the letters. She

36:14

mentioned it to us a couple of times that

36:17

he had written her a letter or called her

36:19

one day, but never did she say, I need

36:21

someone to take care of this or I need

36:23

to call the police. My

36:25

dad confronted him one day at Richardson Trucking

36:28

and said, you're crazy. I don't know what

36:30

your deal is. She's not interested and knock

36:32

it off, said Amber. Chris's children

36:34

thought it ended there, but apparently it

36:36

didn't. He continued to

36:39

call her and tell her that he

36:41

didn't understand, that he loved her and

36:43

asked why she wasn't loving him back.

36:45

When Chris's husband passes away, her

36:48

children said Bub Boyles didn't miss

36:50

a beat. In less than 48

36:53

hours, he was back at it. At

36:55

this point, Chris begins to save the

36:58

letters in Bud's employee file. Chris's kids

37:00

claimed that this is a tangible paper

37:02

trail. Detectives find no

37:04

evidence Chris ever reciprocated or

37:06

had any romantic interests in

37:08

Bud Boyles. In fact,

37:11

according to her children, in the days

37:13

leading up to her disappearance, she started

37:15

to become increasingly fearful of him. At

37:17

a certain point in time, she got uncomfortable

37:20

with him being in the office without another

37:22

person around. So she always made

37:24

sure if she knew he was gonna be there

37:26

or if he was coming, that someone else was

37:28

there as well. Detectives question

37:30

Boyles and he has an alibi for

37:32

the day Chris went missing, all

37:35

except for three crucial hours. And

37:38

Chris may have had good reason to be terrified.

37:41

Even though Bud Boyles had never been

37:43

charged in the disappearance, detectives agree the

37:45

letters seem to express an extreme infatuation

37:48

and escalating anger. Then,

37:51

just like that, according to Amber,

37:53

Bud Boyles quit working for Richardson

37:56

trucking and then days later Chris

37:58

vanishes. At this

38:00

point, they have a $250,000 reward put

38:02

up by Chris's children for any information

38:05

that can help them find their mom.

38:08

If you listeners or viewers have

38:10

any information relating to this case,

38:13

they were urged to contact the

38:15

Casper Police Department. Well,

38:19

this reminds me of all the rom-coms

38:21

where the guy asks a

38:24

little woman and she turns him down

38:26

but he won't give up and

38:28

he just keeps pestering her and

38:31

it's presented to us as very

38:33

romantic and sweet. He's determined

38:35

to look at him go. He

38:37

doesn't give up. Yeah, no. Yeah,

38:39

the word stalker never ever comes up,

38:41

right? Right. No,

38:44

that doesn't exist in rom-com world.

38:46

Absolutely not. Yeah, and at the end

38:48

of the movie, of course, she falls in love with him. Maybe-

38:52

He wore her down. Look at him go. Yeah,

38:55

right. Maybe that idea has given

38:57

a lot of guys this false

38:59

notion. Like if only

39:01

you just don't give up, just keep going

39:03

after her. Eventually she'll give in and

39:05

go out with you. You know what they

39:07

say, 50 no's means a

39:10

yes. Yeah, maybe

39:12

for a job at Starbucks

39:15

but not with a woman. No

39:18

way Jose. Too much. I

39:20

only- I did know a guy who

39:23

asked out a girl probably like 10 times

39:25

and she did eventually go out with him

39:27

but she treated him like shit the entire

39:29

time because she just didn't respect him because

39:32

he was just kind of too much of a puppy

39:34

dog, I guess. So

39:37

yeah, this is just stalking, plain and simple.

39:40

That kind of shit makes me terrified

39:43

just being a woman just because you

39:45

never know. It's

39:48

bad enough. It's like I'm on TikTok and

39:51

all of a sudden the same person starts

39:53

liking every single video. I'm like what

39:55

the fuck is wrong with you? And then

39:57

you get the message request. This is

39:59

not- making me want to talk to you.

40:01

This is the opposite. I'm going to run

40:03

away and block everything and hide. I don't

40:06

want to be wearing my face. Yeah.

40:09

Have you been stalked before? Like

40:12

really followed or just online or

40:14

has it happened in real life?

40:19

There was one instance where it

40:21

wasn't stalking, but someone was definitely

40:23

pushing boundaries. So when I worked

40:26

at the mall, I

40:28

had a regular customer who was at least

40:30

20 years my senior and

40:32

he was a nice guy. He was a regular customer. He came

40:35

in and spent a lot of money. So like we were always

40:37

excited to see him because we're like, hell yeah, we're going to

40:39

make our numbers today. But when

40:42

I end up quitting that job,

40:45

apparently he had a crush on me

40:47

and he talked to my boss and

40:49

my boss not realizing anything gave him

40:51

like my Facebook information. So

40:54

the next thing I know, I

40:56

get this weird long email confession

40:58

message from him and it's like,

41:01

Oh, I always thought you were so hot

41:03

and like your boss gave me your info

41:05

because I didn't realize you weren't working there

41:07

anymore and I really want to take you

41:10

out. And it was so creepy and like

41:13

it grossed me out in my own

41:15

apartment. Like I felt like he could

41:17

be in the walls and

41:20

he didn't know where I lived or anything, but

41:22

it was just so invasive and shocking

41:25

that I was just instantly like creeped

41:27

out for a while. And then I

41:30

called my old boss and cussed him out and

41:32

I was like, dude got real fucking weird really

41:35

quickly. Like I was like

41:37

maybe 20 when this happened. This guy

41:39

was in his 40s. Wait, what

41:42

business was this?

41:46

I worked for

41:48

Spencer's Spencer gifts.

41:51

And when I worked there, we were at

41:53

the time we still sold a bunch

41:55

of horror movie memorabilia and like action

41:57

figures and I

42:00

was an avid collector. And

42:02

like, okay, so what

42:04

creeped me out too was I had

42:06

lived somewhere before the apartment and that

42:08

dude was a UPS driver. So

42:11

he actually was on my street. Like the street

42:13

I lived on was part of his route. So

42:15

he knew the old house I used to live

42:18

at. And he would always like, like if I

42:20

was working, like he'd be like, oh, I saw

42:22

you earlier today, did I did it? Like when I was

42:24

going to college and stuff like that and didn't think anything

42:26

of it. Cause I was like, cool, you're gonna spend $400

42:28

right now. Like I'll talk to you whatever. Never,

42:32

not even flirting or anything like that

42:34

but it was just that base interaction.

42:37

It's like, oh, she's hot. Gonna

42:40

go for it. And I was like. Did

42:42

you ever wait tables? No,

42:44

I never did a restaurant job.

42:47

I worked, yeah, no, I never did that.

42:50

Cause they read that when

42:52

guys hit on waitresses that's like

42:54

so awkward for the waitress because

42:57

they're just. Oh, well, yeah. That's

42:59

gonna be awkward at any job. So they're being

43:01

friendly because it's part of their job but the

43:03

guy's like, oh yeah, you're so hot. And

43:07

the waitress, she can't walk away. She

43:09

has to keep taking care of it. Right, yeah. I

43:13

had someone hit on

43:15

me when I worked at a call center.

43:17

It was this old biker dude. And

43:20

he was so awkward. I

43:24

was like, I just want to fix

43:26

your phone account. Like just shut up. I was

43:29

like, there's no point in telling me how amazing

43:31

you think my voice sounds because you don't even

43:33

live in the same state. Yeah,

43:36

really. It's so weird. Speaking

43:39

of psycho stalker guys. Oh

43:41

God. This week, an

43:44

episode is coming out on the

43:46

podcast called Double Trouble Part Six. And

43:50

so there's two offenders in this episode. And

43:52

one of them is a guy named James

43:54

Olsuna. And he became obsessed with a joker.

43:57

And he tattooed his face to resemble

43:59

the joker. And he did a

44:01

lot of crazy shit that the Joker did and

44:04

some of it He did to a woman he was

44:06

involved with so I just want to

44:08

warn everybody. This is like this

44:10

is like one of the most fucked up

44:12

cases I've ever cut covered in terms of

44:14

gore and dismemberment

44:16

and everything And

44:19

he was laughing at the families who

44:21

were suffering in court and everything So

44:23

I feel like I remember this this

44:26

is recent years crash. It's a

44:28

recent case. Yeah I

44:32

Okay Alright, so I'm

44:34

gonna preface my next one by asking

44:36

you So I presume,

44:38

you know, I'm sure you must be a

44:40

good housekeeper But if

44:43

the woman friend came into your

44:45

home and made a negative comment

44:47

about how well you keep house

44:50

Would you get angry? Would you confront her? Would

44:52

you what would you do? I? I've

44:55

had some I had

44:57

an ex-boyfriend's mom come in and

45:00

try to Reclean the apartment before

45:02

one time. Oh, it's me off

45:04

instantly because it wasn't dirty. It

45:06

just wasn't the way she I

45:09

Take offense to it. Like it's

45:11

one thing if my house is dirty But

45:14

I'm never going to expect anybody to come in

45:16

and clean. That's my fucking problem And

45:19

if you don't like looking at it, tell me Don't

45:22

just take it upon yourself to start going through my

45:24

shit to clean my house It's not

45:26

your problem. Like don't make it something. It doesn't

45:28

need to be Well,

45:31

my third story the

45:34

headline is Nebraska

45:36

woman allegedly stabbed guests who

45:38

said her house was dirty

45:42

So he's gonna make it even dirtier. Yeah, the

45:45

woman reportedly Picked

45:47

up a knife and slashed one of the women

45:49

in the face Yes,

45:52

a Nebraska woman's feathers were

45:54

ruffled after her friend commented

45:57

on her home's untidy ness

46:00

the irate homeowner to allegedly

46:02

stab her friends as her

46:04

two children watched in horror.

46:07

According to an incident report from

46:09

the Lincoln Police Department obtained by

46:11

Fox News Digital and

46:14

an arrested affidavit obtained

46:17

by KOLN, officers responded

46:19

to a 911 call shortly

46:21

after midnight on Sunday. When

46:24

they arrived, two witnesses

46:26

said that 24-year-old Tatiana

46:28

Eniguez attacked them after

46:30

they commented on her home's untidiness.

46:33

The women said that they commented

46:35

on the home's cleanliness since there

46:37

were four young children present. The

46:40

homeowner had two children and one

46:42

of the women also had two

46:44

children. During the interaction,

46:46

Eniguez attacked one of the women

46:48

and choked her according to the

46:51

arrest affidavit. The other

46:53

woman stepped in to intervene and police

46:55

said that Eniguez began punching her in

46:58

the head. After

47:00

one of the victims managed to separate

47:02

Eniguez and the other victim, a 24-year-old

47:04

woman allegedly grabbed a knife and

47:07

began attacking her while threatening to

47:09

kill her. Police said

47:11

that Eniguez managed to stab one of

47:13

the victims below her eye. Authorities

47:17

observed a 1.5-inch laceration below

47:19

the woman's right eye as

47:21

well as defensive wounds on

47:23

her hands. In

47:25

the incident report, an officer noted

47:27

that Eniguez's home was unsanitary

47:30

and contained an

47:33

extreme amount of dog

47:35

feces in the basement and

47:37

dead mice. Eniguez

47:40

was arrested and charged with second-degree assault

47:42

in possession of a deadly weapon while

47:44

committing a felony. She is due back

47:46

in court on March 14. So

47:51

they certainly had a point. Dog shit

47:53

and dead mice all over the place? Or

48:00

would you just kind of want to turn

48:02

around and leave as soon as possible? I

48:05

would probably want to turn around

48:07

and leave and then possibly call

48:09

CPS Child

48:11

Protective Services because No

48:14

child should ever have to live with that.

48:16

That's so oh That's

48:18

so gross I'm so many levels and

48:20

then for her to get so fucking

48:22

mad to be called out on her

48:24

nastiness that she about takes someone's eye

48:27

out and Search like

48:29

physically assaulting people who are supposed to be

48:31

her friends Yeah, right.

48:33

What the hell like was

48:35

alcohol involved. Do we know like

48:37

her mental state like I Don't

48:41

know but I mean I think well Mentally

48:44

ill people are the types most

48:46

likely to live in a house

48:48

with dog shit on the floor and dead mice

48:51

on the floor I

48:53

think a social worker would have Probably

48:56

removed the children from the home if that

48:58

incident had not happened, right? It's

49:00

cleanliness is a big deal You

49:03

can't keep kids in a fill for it.

49:05

So just it's so unsafe for everyone

49:07

involved because of all the dead animals

49:09

and You know

49:12

the shit on the floor like everything

49:14

decomposing like that That's

49:17

not good for any like why would you

49:19

expose little kids to that? Fabulous,

49:22

not how can you be okay with that?

49:24

That's just yeah, it's bad enough

49:26

to have rodents in your home But

49:28

the rodents are dying if you're killing

49:31

the the vermin Yeah,

49:33

like that's a problem Those

49:36

are damn near indestructible Like

49:39

my god, I can live in

49:41

it They can withstand

49:43

quite a lot But if they can't

49:45

stand your home if it's making them

49:47

sick and you're not purposely poisoning

49:49

them, there's something I

49:52

can't sleep Welcome

49:55

to the I can't sleep podcast with Benjamin Boster If

50:02

you're tired of sleepless nights, you'll

50:05

love the I Can't Sleep podcast. I

50:09

help quiet your mind by reading random articles

50:12

from across the web to bore you to

50:14

sleep with my soothing voice. Each

50:18

episode provides enough interesting content to

50:21

hold your attention, and

50:23

then your mind lets you drift off. Hey,

50:30

do you have trouble sleeping? Then

50:49

maybe you should check out the Sleepy podcast, at

50:52

the show where I read old books in the public

50:54

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50:57

was the best of times, it was the

50:59

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51:01

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51:06

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51:21

just like a good bedtime story, fluff up the

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51:26

Unless you're driving, then please don't listen

51:28

to Sleepy. Find

51:30

Sleepy on Spotify or wherever you get

51:32

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51:35

Sweet dreams. Sometime

51:48

in the early 80s, Ario

51:50

Speedwagon's airplane made an unannounced,

51:53

middle of the night landing. This is my

51:55

friend Kyle McLaughlin, the star of Twin Peaks,

51:58

and he's telling me about how he discovered a real-life

52:00

Twin Peaks in rural North Carolina, not far

52:02

from where he filmed Blue Velvet. What was

52:04

on the plane was copious amounts of drugs

52:07

coming in from South America. Supposedly

52:09

Pablo Escobar went looking for other

52:11

spots quiet out of the way places

52:14

to bring in his cocaine. My

52:18

name is Joshua Davis and I'm an

52:20

investigative reporter. Kyle and

52:23

I talk all the time about the strange things

52:25

we come across, but nothing was quite as strange

52:27

as what we found in Varnam Town, North Carolina.

52:30

There's crooked cops, brother against brother. Everyone's

52:32

got a story to tell, but does

52:35

the truth even exist? Welcome

52:37

to Varnam Town. Varnam

52:40

Town is available wherever you listen to

52:42

podcasts. Okay,

52:48

so I got a question for you. So

52:52

I know you don't have any children of your

52:54

own, but how

52:56

far would you go to prevent

52:59

your children from

53:02

ever facing

53:04

struggles in life? I

53:10

guess that's a tough one because

53:12

it's like you don't want your kids

53:14

to struggle, but you also know

53:16

like the worst thing you can do is

53:19

just give them a

53:21

stipend and not make them work and not

53:23

make them have to

53:27

develop a

53:30

career or become independent

53:32

so that doesn't do them any good

53:34

either. This

53:36

mom took it one step further. So

53:38

the headline says, mom used belt to

53:40

strangle son who was 11 claiming she

53:43

didn't want him to face financial struggles.

53:47

Okay, so that's going a little too far. Okay,

53:52

so a Pennsylvania mother was convicted of murder

53:54

after she strangled her son to death so

53:56

he wouldn't have to grow up with

53:58

financial struggles. DeRienza Whitehead

54:00

was charged with the murder of

54:03

11-year-old Matthew Whitehead after his body

54:05

was found in their Horsham home

54:07

in April of 2023, according to

54:09

the statement from the Montgomery County

54:12

District Attorney's Office. The

54:14

Philadelphia Inquirer, NBC Philadelphia, and

54:16

6 ABC reported Thursday that

54:19

a judge found DeRienza Whitehead

54:21

guilty of first-degree murder, rejecting

54:23

an insanity defense that her

54:26

attorneys had argued for. On

54:29

Friday, she was sentenced to life

54:31

in prison, ABC reported. Following her

54:33

arrest, DeRienza

54:35

Whitehead told police that the family had

54:41

been struggling financially. She said she

54:43

didn't want her son to grow

54:45

up with these struggles and admitted

54:47

to strangling him with a belt

54:49

as he slept. Matthew's

54:51

father called 911 after he noticed

54:54

the door to the primary bedroom was

54:56

locked and the family's Toyota Highlander was

54:58

missing. Police found Matthew's body in the

55:00

bedroom where he'd fallen asleep with his

55:02

mother, the district attorney's office said. The

55:05

boy had ligature marks in the front

55:07

and rear of his neck and his

55:09

face was swollen with petechia to his

55:11

eyes. So that's where

55:13

like your blood vessels rupture and

55:16

it causes the white of the eyes to

55:18

turn like that blood red color. Police

55:21

found the missing SUV in Cape May, New

55:23

Jersey where the mother had

55:25

driven it into the ocean. She was

55:27

found walking around six miles north of

55:30

the abandoned vehicle. Authorities said they found

55:32

a belt on the door, the driver's

55:34

side, the SUV. Her

55:36

attorney, Eugene Tenari, expressed disappointment

55:38

after the verdict the inquiry

55:40

reported. I believe it

55:43

was strictly as a result of her being

55:45

in psychosis and mental illness based on the

55:47

reasons I said, the love of

55:49

her child, her character. Before

55:51

his death, Matthew was a sixth grader

55:53

at Germantown Academy. He was described as

55:56

being an extraordinary child with a smile

55:58

as bright as the sun. The

56:00

school made the statement reported by the

56:02

inquirer. We loved him and we will

56:05

forever mourn his loss. Wow.

56:10

Yeah, I

56:12

certainly wouldn't go that far to prevent

56:14

him from going through hardships. Maybe

56:18

it'd be better to make him study

56:20

harder. Well,

56:23

what better way to learn

56:25

by then experience. If your

56:27

family is struggling financially, explain

56:29

early on what, if anything,

56:31

can be done and how

56:33

to handle those situations. Build

56:35

a resiliency and understanding. Now,

56:40

mind you, I don't know. Considering

56:42

the economic climate we're living in, hard

56:45

work doesn't seem to really be much of

56:47

a guarantee of an

56:49

escalation in status anymore. So I

56:51

don't know what kind of promises

56:53

you can make at this point.

56:56

But at the same time, we don't know

56:58

what's coming in the future. So why stop

57:00

it before it even has a chance to

57:02

show itself? How do

57:04

you know that your financial struggles wouldn't

57:06

eventually turn around and that your

57:09

son would be in a better place than he is

57:11

now? He's only 11. Yeah,

57:14

exactly. It's not like he

57:17

can't find work. He's not legally allowed

57:19

to work. He hasn't had an

57:21

opportunity to fail you yet. Exactly.

57:24

And she didn't give him an opportunity to fail. She

57:27

took his ass out. Yeah,

57:29

really. Which is so fucked up as a parent. Like...

57:33

Yeah, she was definitely psychotic, schizophrenic

57:36

or something. But,

57:39

nah, that's extreme.

57:43

So my last case dealt with

57:45

an extremely petty individual. Well, I have

57:48

another one. Denver

57:50

Boy 13 charged with

57:52

murder in fatal shooting of

57:54

man whose leg blocked Bus

57:57

Isle. So suspect

57:59

is... Yep, suspect and

58:01

60-year-old's killing may still be tried

58:03

as an adult. A 13-year-old

58:05

boy accused of fatally shooting a man whose

58:07

leg was blocking the aisle on the

58:10

Denver public bus has been

58:12

charged as a juvenile with

58:15

first-degree murder and other felonies,

58:17

prosecutor said Thursday. So

58:19

this kid has no

58:22

tolerance for man-spreading, obviously.

58:24

He doesn't have that issue yet. Yeah,

58:27

he's not old enough, nor is he a woman,

58:29

but the Denver District Attorney's

58:31

Office is still considering whether to try

58:33

to prosecute the boy as an adult.

58:36

A decision which would ultimately

58:38

be up to a judge

58:41

said other spokesperson, Mauro Caparian,

58:44

his name has not been released because he is

58:46

a juvenile. According to police,

58:48

their investigation found the teen

58:50

apparently got into a verbal

58:52

exchange with a 60-year-old man

58:54

before shooting him on the

58:57

bus in southwest Denver on

58:59

January A

59:01

second person suffered a minor injury,

59:03

police said. The

59:05

charges filed against the boy,

59:07

which were first reported by

59:09

the Denver Post, include two

59:11

different kinds of first-degree murder

59:14

charges alleging that he both

59:16

killed someone after deliberation and

59:18

by showing extreme indifference to

59:20

human life. The

59:22

charges also include counts such

59:24

as assault and endangering a

59:26

public transport crew, which are

59:29

felonies and possessing a gun as

59:32

a juvenile, which is a misdemeanor.

59:35

So what do you think about the

59:37

whole practice of trying

59:39

juveniles as adults when it comes

59:42

to certain charges? Like how about

59:44

murder? That's

59:48

such a loaded question. I

59:54

don't know. I mean, this kid

59:56

is... I can under... I

59:59

see both sides. of it. Kids,

1:00:02

on the one hand, even at 16 or

1:00:05

whatever, the human

1:00:07

brain isn't fully developed to your mid 20s.

1:00:09

So at that point, they still have a

1:00:11

good solid 10 years of building that they

1:00:13

need to do. And the brain essentially when

1:00:16

it develops, has like three layers

1:00:18

that develop over time, you've got your

1:00:20

core layer, which is all your like,

1:00:22

your breathing, your inner that kind of

1:00:24

stuff, the stuff we don't think about,

1:00:26

that's your base level stuff that happens

1:00:28

since like birth, then you have the

1:00:31

feeling brain. So kids are hyper emotional.

1:00:33

You know, so I will kids have

1:00:35

temper tantrums before they can actually verbally

1:00:37

communicate. And then the thinking

1:00:39

brain, which of course is the last layer

1:00:42

to develop. And

1:00:44

as a teenager, their emotions

1:00:47

are heightened because a lot of those

1:00:49

synapses and those neurons are firing because

1:00:51

they're starting to build

1:00:53

that, you know,

1:00:55

capacity to handle more intense

1:00:57

situations. But

1:00:59

that being said, they still know base right

1:01:01

from wrong. They've been

1:01:03

taught it for at

1:01:06

least 1012 years prior

1:01:08

since they were little little kids.

1:01:11

So to shoot somebody

1:01:13

because they won't move their fucking

1:01:15

leg. I would

1:01:17

try that kid as an adult. You're

1:01:21

being worse than an asshole. You literally ended

1:01:23

somebody's life when you could have just said

1:01:25

move your leg. Well,

1:01:28

you and I we knew better than to kill someone

1:01:30

when we were 13 years old. Um, I

1:01:33

would have my ass handed to me by

1:01:35

the former generations had I

1:01:38

tried to talk shit on the bus. I

1:01:40

used to get yelled at in public all

1:01:42

the time for cussing, let alone challenging an

1:01:44

adult. You know, there's

1:01:46

no way and never

1:01:48

had access to guns when I was a kid either.

1:01:50

So it's not like I would even

1:01:52

joke about that. I know

1:01:56

someone needs to regulate their emotions

1:01:58

and they obviously didn't. But

1:02:00

like that's just too extreme and

1:02:03

you are well old enough to know

1:02:05

better It's not you know, that's a

1:02:07

shit excuse to shoot somebody your leg was

1:02:09

in the way who fucking cares

1:02:13

You're sitting on the bus. Were you actively

1:02:15

trying to walk through the aisles? You're not

1:02:17

supposed to do that Anyway, like

1:02:19

if it's moving other than getting on and

1:02:21

getting off like and at that point if

1:02:24

you're exiting the bus and someone's like Let

1:02:27

it go Hey, it's not that

1:02:29

big of a deal You

1:02:31

never heard of saying excuse me. Yeah, right

1:02:34

be a dick say, excuse me.

1:02:36

Give them attitude there Don't fucking

1:02:38

shoot somebody Kick

1:02:40

and if he doesn't move his legs then kick his

1:02:42

leg, you know, right Something

1:02:45

that's not gonna end his life and fuck up the

1:02:47

rest of yours Cuz if he

1:02:49

gets tried as an adult he's gonna get the

1:02:52

book thrown at him Yeah,

1:02:54

well a lot a lot of people's brains actually

1:02:56

don't finish growing until they're in their early 20s

1:03:00

And I know that apparently juvenile

1:03:02

prisons actually go up to 25

1:03:04

years old for some in need

1:03:07

So the ad may be hold him for that long

1:03:11

But you know then again if he and

1:03:13

if he kills while he's inside then then

1:03:17

Definitely charge him as an adult All

1:03:20

right, so we're on to your last

1:03:22

story right? Yes, also about

1:03:24

teenagers making horrible decisions Kind

1:03:28

of funny how they like that Teen

1:03:32

sentenced for killing best friend after

1:03:35

man online offered nine million dollars

1:03:37

for videos of murder Well,

1:03:45

that could become industry, you know Oh

1:03:48

Well an Alaska woman was

1:03:51

sentenced to 99 years in prison for

1:03:53

killing her 19 year old best friend

1:03:55

in 2019 after

1:03:57

allegedly being catfished by a man who offered

1:03:59

her nine million to commit murder.

1:04:02

Denali Bremmer, now 24, pled guilty to murder in 2023,

1:04:04

admitting to

1:04:07

her involvement in killing Cynthia Hoffman, the

1:04:10

Alaska Department of Law said. In

1:04:12

June 2019, Hoffman

1:04:15

went missing while on a hike with

1:04:17

Bremmer and another friend at Thunderbird Falls

1:04:19

in Kugiak, Alaska. Two days

1:04:21

later, her body was found on the banks of

1:04:23

the Oklutna River, bound with duct tape and with

1:04:25

a gunshot wound to the back of her head.

1:04:28

Authorities said Hoffman had been in an

1:04:30

online relationship with a man she believed

1:04:32

to be named Tyler, who

1:04:34

claimed to be a millionaire from Kansas

1:04:36

and who offered her $9 million to

1:04:38

kill someone and send him pictures and

1:04:40

videos of the crime, according to the

1:04:42

charging documents. Bremmer and

1:04:44

another friend, Kaden McIntosh, who were

1:04:47

18 and 16 at

1:04:49

the time, respectively. Drowth Hoffman

1:04:51

to Thunderbird Falls, authorities allege. McIntosh

1:04:54

is accused of shooting Hoffman after the

1:04:56

pair duct taped the victim and took

1:04:58

photos of her. Prosecutors

1:05:00

argue that even though she didn't fire

1:05:02

the shot that killed Hoffman, Bremmer was

1:05:04

responsible for the murder. She

1:05:06

may not have pulled the trigger, but this

1:05:09

never would have happened if it weren't for

1:05:11

Denali Bremmer, the prosecutor Patrick McKay said. McIntosh,

1:05:14

who is charged with murder, is still

1:05:16

awaiting trial. Another

1:05:18

man connected to the case, Caleb Leland,

1:05:20

pled guilty to second degree murder in

1:05:23

November and is also awaiting sentencing. Two

1:05:26

other teens were prosecuted in juvenile court

1:05:28

for their alleged involvement in the case,

1:05:30

reported to Anchorage Daily News. It

1:05:33

was eventually revealed that Darren Schillmiller

1:05:35

of Indiana had catfished the teen

1:05:37

and solicited child pornography from Bremmer,

1:05:40

according to the Department of

1:05:42

Law. Schillmiller is pled guilty to

1:05:44

soliciting a murder and was sentenced to 99

1:05:47

years in prison in January. The 99 year

1:05:50

sentence came after a judge called

1:05:52

her conduct cold, calculated and carried

1:05:54

out to a tee. The

1:05:56

Anchorage Daily News reported that Hoffman's

1:05:58

father, Timothy, said his daughter

1:06:01

had developmental disabilities and considered Bremmer

1:06:03

to be her best friend. My

1:06:06

daughter just wanted friends and now I

1:06:08

have to bury her," he reported. God,

1:06:12

you know, it's a bad

1:06:15

thing about the internet because they used to talk

1:06:17

about how it was going to bring us all

1:06:19

together, but it's actually led a lot of

1:06:22

people into loneliness because

1:06:25

they see people online who appear to have

1:06:27

all these great social lives and

1:06:29

then they end up getting suckered

1:06:32

into these situations like this or

1:06:35

cyberbullying or something like that. Or,

1:06:38

God forbid, the girls who are

1:06:41

trapped in these situations

1:06:43

were like... Being exploited

1:06:45

and... Yes,

1:06:49

that must be a big thing of

1:06:51

the big part of the

1:06:53

platform that you have when

1:06:55

you speak to students in high school, safety

1:06:58

online and everything. We

1:07:01

do talk about it a little bit, but

1:07:03

it's more... I'm

1:07:06

trying to think. We

1:07:09

have separate presentations

1:07:12

we can give on that. We do talk

1:07:14

about bullying and media violence and stuff

1:07:16

like that. We focus

1:07:19

more on drugs and prevention and stuff like

1:07:22

that, too. But, I

1:07:24

mean, yes, I have had instances

1:07:26

where I have discussed internet safety

1:07:28

with high school students

1:07:30

before and it's

1:07:32

just like... I mean, it's no different than

1:07:35

we were, you know, kids on

1:07:37

the internet. That

1:07:40

stuff never really gets deleted.

1:07:42

Just be mindful and don't

1:07:44

believe everything you hear, see,

1:07:46

or whatever someone tells you.

1:07:50

Well, you know, there should probably be a whole

1:07:52

course in high school for girls just

1:07:56

on safety in general, both online

1:07:58

and offline. And

1:08:00

it's not just girls either. There's sometimes

1:08:02

guys get wringled into it too. Yeah.

1:08:05

So if you're about it as much because

1:08:08

you know, there's that stigma and it's,

1:08:11

it's quite embarrassing and traumatizing and

1:08:13

you just never know. Yeah,

1:08:16

guys getting catfished by people who

1:08:18

they think are the hot girl

1:08:20

from this next school over, sending

1:08:22

pictures and then all of a sudden, bam,

1:08:24

this adult man's like, if you don't give

1:08:26

me what I want, I'm posting this on

1:08:28

everything for everyone to see and yeah,

1:08:33

it's horrible. Yeah, one of the

1:08:35

hardest things about, you know, using a dating site

1:08:37

these days is like the bots, where

1:08:39

they just have like a picture

1:08:41

of a girl that looks like she was

1:08:43

just taken like looks like the photo came

1:08:45

from a magazine, like a fashion. So

1:08:47

a lot of the time, it's obvious how

1:08:50

phony it is. But they're,

1:08:52

they've gotten better at it. And

1:08:55

so yeah, that that's how men get sucked into it.

1:08:58

Well, and I have friends who, you

1:09:00

know, just depending on their profession,

1:09:02

or whether they've had any modeling modeling

1:09:04

experience, they I see fake profiles

1:09:06

pop up of my friends online

1:09:08

all the time, where someone

1:09:10

just snatched a couple of their photos and

1:09:13

is trying to create, you know,

1:09:16

new profiles and reach out to people

1:09:18

and harass them for

1:09:20

money and whatever and identity

1:09:23

theft. It's a whole thing. Yeah,

1:09:25

but you try to report that stuff. And usually

1:09:28

nothing comes of it. And it's like, what's it

1:09:30

gonna take? It shouldn't take escalating

1:09:32

to the point of committing murder or, you

1:09:34

know, heinous crimes

1:09:37

to have your identity protected.

1:09:40

Yeah, exactly. On

1:09:44

that note, I think we've,

1:09:47

we've gone through enough horror for the for the

1:09:49

week. Some

1:09:52

horrifying parents stories. So

1:09:56

thank you very much for joining me again, Michelle.

1:09:59

And have have a great rest of the weekend.

1:10:02

Absolutely. You take care as well. You

1:10:04

take care.