Jack talks to Dr. Melanie Joy about the psychology of eating meat, black and white thinking in the vegan community, effective vegan advocacy and how to have better relationships. 

Dr. Melanie Joy is a Harvard-educated psychologist, relationship coach, and communication specialist and she is the world’s leading expert on the psychology of eating animals and the psychology of veganism. She is the award-winning author of six books, including Why We Love Dogs, Eat Pigs, and Wear Cows; Beyond Beliefs: A Guide to Improving Relationships and Communication for Vegans, Vegetarians, and Meat Eaters; and Getting Relationships Right. Her work has been featured by media outlets around the world, including the New York Times, the BBC, NPR, and ABC Australia. Dr. Joy is also the founding president of the charitable organization Beyond Carnism. You can learn more about her work at carnism.org.