0:03

Hi, what's up guys.

0:05

Welcome to the, I don't get it podcast.

0:06

This is NAS. This is Ashley.

0:09

And Jared's going to be here, but Lauren's not going to be here today.

0:13

No, I'm S I'm always sad when Lauren's not on Lauren's the best, but Jared's going to be joining us.

0:20

Cause we're talking to this woman named Simone I believe that's how you pronounce her last name.

0:26

She's a relationship expert and the author of a book.

0:30

That's about how control is ruining relationships.

0:33

The book's actually called relationship.

0:35

Are you sure you want one?

0:37

Which she actually wrote funny enough with her ex partner, Brendan watt, who she's still friends with and close with.

0:44

I can't wait to ask her about that, but basically she just gives like no sugar coating relationship advice.

0:51

She's anti traditional advice.

0:53

And she thinks like, when people wait for the one or wait for prince charming, that's like a very bad mentality to have.

0:59

So we're going to have her on.

1:01

Jared's going to be on and yeah, we'll talk to her about how control is ruining relationships.

1:06

All right. Let's get her on the call.

1:08

All right. Hello, Simone.

1:11

So your whole thing, your whole thing in the book is about control and relationships and not sugarcoating things.

1:18

So let's talk about the, for the, I think you said four, four unexpected ways that you're trying to control your partner.

1:28

So let me know what I'm doing right now, subconsciously with Jared, that I have no idea that Well

1:36

right now, I think you guys actually look awesome.

1:38

So I'm not, I don't, I don't know.

1:40

Are you controlling him? Like on, I appreciate that, But

1:45

don't worry. She controls me constantly throughout our relationship and I'm sure you'll notice it throughout this podcast.

1:49

That's okay.

1:51

I'm someone who needs direction.

1:52

We fit in. Well, I need direction.

1:55

She gives me direction. I follow direction.

1:57

Well, it's all good. I

1:59

was actually just talking to a guy the other day about that.

2:01

How it's that's actually a thing. I didn't realize that, that, what is it called?

2:05

F L R female led relationships and oh yeah, I wear the pants.

2:10

Yeah, but it's a, it's actually, there's four stages.

2:13

I know that this is not what we're going to talk about, but I was Googling it because he that's, when he was after, was he called N F L R female lead relationship.

2:22

And there's four stages of what it is.

2:24

And it's basically like the female is making in his word, like all the choices for the greater of both.

2:31

And I was like, that's most relationships.

2:33

I know. It looks like trying to get away with it.

2:38

Oh, I mean, Ashley, doesn't try to get away with it.

2:40

She gets away with it. But I also sh I also let her get away with it because I know, like you said, she's making the best decision, not just for herself, but for us together.

2:49

And why would I ever really try to go against that when I know that she's trying to do the right thing?

2:55

Yeah, I think, and I think in there's always one person who is more dominating than the other.

3:02

And yet the piece that I would like to see change is when is when people are trying to dominate the other person and control them.

3:10

And it's not for the greater good of both.

3:12

Like, you know, as an example, my ex is a keen surfer.

3:18

He surfs all the time. He grew up, you know, surfing.

3:20

And when I was with him at the beginning of our relationship, he'd go out to go surfing and he'd look at me like with this look on his face, I'm like, what's going on?

3:29

And he'd say, am I bad? You know, I feel like I'm about to get in trouble.

3:32

And I'm like, what for you're going surfing.

3:34

But his ex had the point of view I don't serve.

3:37

So you can't serve. I'm like, why would I do that?

3:41

You go out surfing, you're out there for a few hours.

3:43

You come back, your body is just like vibrating.

3:45

Like every molecule is, you know, it's like, you're happy.

3:49

It makes you happy. Why would I not desire for you to go out and serve and be happy you come back into the house.

3:55

And it's like, you know, that's the energy I like to play with.

3:59

So yeah. That's like softball for me.

4:02

It was definitely during softball, but I don't look at you like that unless like it's a family trip and you can't because of softball.

4:10

Yeah. That makes sense. Obviously we have to prioritize, which I'll also for the record has not happened yet, but there was a family trip plan that I was able to make work with, going to softball and going to the family trip and then Going

4:23

to go hours out of his way. But it's fine. But it was my own way, you know, you're fine.

4:27

You're gonna go with your family. And then I was going to go to softball and then come back with the fan.

4:30

Like it all worked out any who now is, I got a question for you NAS in your ideal setting, would you rather be in a relationship where you feel that you're leading more of the decision making?

4:40

Do you want your partner to lead more of the decision-making or do you want it to be 50 50 and your ideal?

4:46

That's a good question. I think my ideal, but it's funny because Simone just said most people are in FLR female led relationships.

4:53

I think my ideal is I want it to be 50 50, but I wonder if that's even possible, like, is that does one person always have to sort of take the lead?

5:05

Are there a lot of successful 50, 50 relationships?

5:09

So I would say yes, but not 50 50 the way you think it is.

5:14

So what if there was areas of the relationship that you took control and other areas where they took control or they lead is probably let's say leading, leading is a little bit nicer and that, in that thing, like, so with my ex it's, like he was, I mean, he was in like the top 100 master chef in Australia.

5:32

He's an amazing cook. I'm not going to get, wow, he's going to jump in the kitchen.

5:37

But I was the one I earned More

5:40

money. Like I was, I was working more and so I was earning more money.

5:44

So that was leading that piece. But he was leading so much of how we lived at home.

5:49

Like literally like renovating the house and doing things like that.

5:53

And can I also say, and if you, if you guys to go there too in sex, it's like, how do you like that lead?

6:00

Like I know sometimes I really, but other times I love being led.

6:05

So what if it is? Yeah, yeah.

6:09

That's what I want. And also I think I would be exhausted if I had to lead all of those things.

6:15

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It would get boring.

6:17

It's really nice. I

6:19

would be like, I would be like, be an Active

6:21

participant in this relationship.

6:26

Okay. So maybe I should reword my initial question in the book.

6:30

You talk about four unexpected ways you're trying to control your partner.

6:33

Is that only in unhealthy relationships or most relationships?

6:36

People like having control in like the right way, like controlling.

6:42

I don't know how to word that.

6:46

Well, I mean, I don't, I don't think controlling is ever advantageous.

6:49

Like I said, if we changed that wording to when you're leading, I think then, then it can be advantageous because you know, when it's your turn to lead, you know, you know, when it's your turn, because if you look at the leading aspect, if you're being a leader in a relationship and a leader in your life, it's like, then you are taking someone with you, but you're not telling them what should, what should be or what they should do.

7:15

So I do think that there's a lot of people who do like these ways of controlling a partner and usually it's to do with finance it's to do with sex.

7:25

Like someone who's earning more money or withhold finances.

7:28

And then like, I've seen a lot of this and a lot of relationships where one person's earning more money, they'll withhold money, and then the other person will withhold sex because that's what they've got.

7:41

Whoa. That's like their currency.

7:42

That's so interesting.

7:44

Can I, can I just have a quick question, just so I can understand the rest of our conversation better is trying to change your partner the same as trying to control your partner or are those two different things?

7:56

I would say yes. And it's like, I don't know.

7:59

I'm a big fan of like, you know, if you want to train something like I see.

8:02

And especially women and I, I guess I can get away with saying it because they see so many women trying to change someone rather than, you know, looking at the person they'd just met and being like, wow, how did we get so lucky?

8:12

What can we create together?

8:14

Like more of what I would call a creation ship.

8:17

So, and they, I always say, if you want to train something and get a puppy, because it's a, do you want to be trained, like telling someone what to do I don't get is, is conducive to creating something greater.

8:29

And for me, I don't think you need a relationship.

8:31

I think it should be a choice, not a necessity.

8:33

And I think nowadays it is more of a choice.

8:36

It's not looked upon so bad, you know, if you're, if you're single, et cetera.

8:41

And I think there's, you know, you go relationship and you go single, but there's so much more than that.

8:47

There's so many more choices that we can have.

8:49

It doesn't have to be like this binary coding.

8:52

Like it's not an either or so I think if you get explore that and you can find out what it's like to actually create with someone which is on my, what I've experienced so much.

9:03

Nice. So Ashley, you know what I've been doing four times a day, lately, four times a day for, I don't know, that's a lie I've been taking nutraphyl and I have to say, I do feel like it's working.

9:18

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9:25

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9:33

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9:40

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9:42

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10:31

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11:23

I understand what you're saying in terms of you're not going to change someone.

11:25

Like I feel like a lot of girls that I've met, they try to always get like the bad boy, because they think that like, oh, I'm going to be the one that turns them good.

11:32

And it never ends up working out because he just continues to be the bad boy.

11:36

I'm a bad, bad boy. Once in my life now I was never bad.

11:39

But my point being as though I do think there are elements within the relationship where you have to try to change someone.

11:47

Because my point being, you know, like speaking on Ashley and mine relationship or any relationship I've had, I've never been in a perfect relationship because those just do not exist.

11:58

And there are things that Ashley needs me to do better.

12:01

And there are things that I need Ashley to do better in order to achieve my ultimate, like are our best selves.

12:07

You know what I mean? Like there are certain things that are very important to Ashley that I'm not I'm lacking.

12:11

And as a person that loves her and wants to be there for her, those are things I'm saying, okay, I need to change a little bit because I needed to be better at them.

12:18

And then vice versa with Ashley, there are certain things that I need that she lacks that she's like, Hey, I'm going to try to be better in this aspect of our relationship.

12:27

So ultimately isn't that kind of changing the person a little bit.

12:31

He's changing the person. But to me, the way you described that is really is it's beautiful in the way it should be.

12:36

Because to me, that's a creation ship.

12:37

So if you look at the word relationship, if you look at a dictionary before 1937, it literally has the definition, the distance between two things.

12:46

But if you look at what, if you weren't in a relationship and what if you were in a creation ship, then you are, I mean, obviously you're going to change, like, but not having it like as a necessity that that person changes.

12:59

Like you must do this now and you must not do that to me.

13:02

That's what a creation is to people who are continuously contributing to each other, becoming greater.

13:08

Like the definition we talk about is what, if you, if you were in a relationship, what if you had a creation ship where you created at least 20 times more, if you create at least 20 times more together than what you would alone.

13:22

And that's that's, to me is the growth that you have.

13:26

So, but that's not about control.

13:28

You actually want to, you desire to contribute to each other.

13:31

That's what it should be simple.

13:33

So, yeah. And I'm getting a little bit of a clearer picture, but I just want to make it even more clear.

13:40

Cause I think Jared brings up a good point.

13:41

It's very nebulous. Like this is very nuanced.

13:44

So for, so I just want to make sure we specifically outline ways that people control people in relationships, because I want to speak personally.

13:54

Like if I meet someone and they smoke cigarettes is like, is supporting, telling them that that's not, you know, technically it's good for both of you, right?

14:08

Longterm. Is that trying to control someone or is that supporting someone like in their health?

14:13

Well, that's like, what is this? So stating What

14:16

you desire. I mean, if you don't like someone to smoke cigarettes and say, then, you know, kissing someone takes on a whole new, a whole new realm or burden.

14:25

Yeah. I think it's, it's, you're, you're stating, you know, it's like, that's not my preference.

14:28

I mean, it's interesting because my ex right.

14:32

And I think if you don't have this, you know, like, as Jared said, he's never had a perfect relationship.

14:38

No one does. Perfection is a judgment.

14:40

And it's, it's like, if I looked at a wishlist, it's like, then my ex wouldn't have shown up.

14:47

Like I was 11 years older than him.

14:48

He had a kid, he had a dog, which I was actually really grateful for.

14:53

I really wanted a dog and he smoked cigarettes.

14:57

He snored like profusely.

15:00

I'm really painting this picture. I know like his, but It

15:04

sounds like a catch right there. But

15:05

he actually, he actually was like, he was the Conductor.

15:09

Yeah. When you love someone, you love them.

15:11

Right? Yeah. So it's hard. It's really hard.

15:14

Yeah. And Then within our relationship, like he, he did, he stopped smoking.

15:17

He, we actually got to some really cool stuff about the snoring.

15:20

Cause he was quite abused as a kid.

15:22

And one of the things that came up was if he he's snoring, he feels like the house is safe.

15:27

So when he had that awareness, it's like the snoring started to change.

15:32

So there was things that's changed within the relationship because what we had for both of us, for each other was gratitude.

15:39

And you know, I can see that with you guys as well.

15:42

It's like, when you have gratitude for each other, then you do change as a person and you do change to create something greater.

15:48

What I would like to see change is like, it's the ways that someone will control someone in order to belittle them and not make them greater.

15:59

And that's a big difference. And I think women can it a lot.

16:03

So that's the difference. Yeah.

16:05

Like women would Ask

16:07

him, like, did you ask him to stop smoking?

16:10

What was that conversation? Oh, I didn't Know.

16:12

And do you know what? This is the weirdest thing.

16:15

And you may, you may realize this when I say it to the people I know who smoke.

16:20

Like I've got a really good friend of mine, this Italian girl that lives out here who rolls her own cigarettes.

16:25

I swear to God, every time she smokes, I'm like, I want to smoke.

16:29

Cause it just, she, she makes it look so good.

16:32

And I can see that she enjoys it. The people judge it.

16:35

That's how I feel when I watch Saxon, what you want to drink?

16:40

Cosmos. I

16:42

want to smoke. Like Karen, she just looks so good.

16:45

She doesn't judge it. And that's the thing. It's like, I noticed that when people don't judge that they smoke, they don't tend to smell as much.

16:51

The ones who judge, when they smoke, they smell.

16:53

Like I never noticed the smell on Brendan.

16:55

So, and then, I mean, he gave up smoking, but yeah, no that wasn't a request of mine over.

17:01

It's just literally, I was grateful when I woke up, it was just like, wow, okay.

17:05

We're still together. Where, you know, we were together for eight years.

17:08

We create a lot of financial wealth together.

17:11

It's like we had a hell of a lot of fun.

17:14

And then we sort of looked at it and went, okay.

17:17

We released our book that we co-wrote together called relationship.

17:20

Are you sure you want one?

17:22

And then we went, okay.

17:23

I think we need to move on.

17:26

Like, Wow.

17:28

When you wrote the book relationship, do you want one?

17:31

Did you guys realize you didn't want the relationship together anymore?

17:35

No, not really. We were actually in America and, and our PRH had had all these TV shows, books and everything as well.

17:41

And we broke up the relationship and nearly gave her a heart attack and we were like dying.

17:45

We've got this because we were still friends too, which was really interesting going on interviews.

17:50

There were some people who really tried to like throw this wedge between us, but you can't throw a wedge between two people who, who don't desire that.

17:59

So it was actually, it ended up working in our favor because the book name of the book is a question relationship.

18:06

Are you sure you want one?

18:08

And that's what we both wrote it so that we we've got some great tools in it for creating a great relationship, but also being questioned every day.

18:17

Like, don't make it, this, this necessity make it a choice.

18:20

Not a necessity is one of the things I would say.

18:24

So can you give us examples of how control is ruining people's relationships, specific examples?

18:33

Yeah, I would say I see, I see men and women drive people away by controlling the amount that they decide that they have to see the other person or what they have to do.

18:45

So I mean, a lot of women will do that subtext thing.

18:51

When, when the guy says, Hey, I'm going to go and play softball with my mates and then the woman.

18:58

But you know, but then, I mean, I'm not saying this is you guys, but then the woman goes, oh yeah, that, you know, that's fine.

19:05

You know, great, go have fun. But what she really means is seriously, you're going again.

19:09

It's like, you need to have the conversation.

19:11

If, if, if that's bugging you, please say it.

19:15

Like, I've been crazily on dating apps recently.

19:19

Oh my God. They drive me crazy.

19:21

I've just frozen my accounts.

19:23

And there's this one guy who is saying how he just wants, you know, he just wants to be friends with hookups, et cetera.

19:30

But everything about him is relationship.

19:33

And I was just like, dude, like he says, he wants one thing and then he wants another.

19:39

And it's like, he keeps saying, you eat dinner every night.

19:42

You do this. Why can't you have time for me?

19:44

And I'm like, wow. He just drove a wedge between us.

19:47

I was like, I wasn't asking for a relationship.

19:50

And that's what he was creating. So I think you need to get really clear on what it is that you're asking for.

19:55

And most people don't do that.

19:58

What comes out of someone's mouth is not easy, is not true.

20:01

So many times you've got to listen to their heads.

20:03

So there is a way that you are controlling someone in.

20:07

Like, if I w if I wasn't me, then I would have been guilt trip into meeting up with him the way he was texting me.

20:15

And I was just like, I didn't have, I didn't have time for it.

20:19

It's like, thank you so much. But you know, he drove it away because he was controlling it.

20:23

So I see so many people drive someone away.

20:25

They end up killing a relationship or killing anything.

20:28

By having that aspect of, if you don't do this, there's this hidden sort of, you know, punishment behind it.

20:36

Like let people be what they want to choose.

20:39

Like I talk about the three tools to create a great relationship.

20:43

One good in bed.

20:45

I think captain obvious.

20:48

Right? And it's like, number two, it's a contribute to each other.

20:51

Helps if it's a co contribution like financially, but just that contribution, you know, it's not one person.

20:57

It's not a one-sided relationship.

20:59

And number three, let the other person do whatever the hell they want.

21:03

Don't try. Like, relationship is not about ownership.

21:06

It's not about control.

21:07

And when I say that, so many people go, oh, does that mean he, you know, he or she can go off and have sex with other people.

21:13

I didn't say that. If that's, if that comes up, you guys need to have that conversation, but let them do whatever they want.

21:19

Let them do what makes them happy.

21:21

That will end up being a contribution to you.

21:23

Like relationship is not a Hollywood movie.

21:26

You don't have someone who completes you.

21:28

You should have someone who contributes to you.

21:31

Hey, NAS. I got to tell you about my dinner last night.

21:33

It was so good. What did you eat?

21:35

What was it was sausage baked penny.

21:39

It was so good.

21:42

It's one of those freshly meals, which I'm obsessed with all the meals.

21:47

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21:53

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21:57

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22:01

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22:03

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22:07

And it's not, and it's such high quality dinner, food.

22:11

Like it literally takes trying to figure out what to eat for dinner or the equation.

22:14

You know, I'm telling you guys on TV, dinner.

22:18

Exactly. It's not TV dinner. Their pictures on their packaging is outstanding.

22:22

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22:28

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22:30

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22:32

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22:36

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23:28

Jared, I feel like you have a lot to say, I can just tell by your face.

23:32

No, no. It was just a lot going on up there. So when you ranked those three things of being in a healthy, happy relationship, is, is that an order that you think like number or is that just random?

23:43

Like do you think being good and is number one?

23:45

Oh, okay. I was like, Like,

23:51

I like sex. So why wouldn't you have that as number one?

23:56

Oh, no, it's all. Well, I think just coming from someone who's been in long-term relationships and now in a marriage, it's I think one of the most important part of a relationship and something that I'm constantly reminded of is that, you know, my wife, Ashley is someone that sure we're going to have sex together, but we're also, this is the person I'm going to talk to every day for the rest of my life and have a conversation with.

24:18

And that is something that I think people kind of forget about because they get lost in that lost in the, in the, the want factor.

24:24

So early on, which is an extremely unbelievably, happy time in your life.

24:28

But if you are truly going to try to choose someone for the rest of your life, I mean, I, for me personally, you, you have to be with someone that you're okay being with constantly, but only that, because I think another important part of a relationship is like you said, is you need your own personal time, but it kind of takes some balls to ask your significant other is saying, Hey, I need to be away from you for a little while.

24:54

And Ashley and I luckily knock on wood, have that comfortability level where we can say, I need to go to my room for a little while, But

25:01

look at what she wrote.

25:03

She says, she goes, a man.

25:05

Cave is very, is more important than what you think.

25:08

Couldn't agree more. Yeah, man, cave is a real thing.

25:10

Men process things differently. It's like, you know, they'll, they'll go play video games.

25:15

They'll go do this or they'll hang out on their own.

25:18

And it's like, whereas women don't process like that.

25:21

Most women want to just talk about it.

25:23

They want to share. And when a woman starts sharing, a man does that, and this is generalization.

25:27

I get it. But when a woman starts sharing and a man does that thing of going, okay, what am I going to fix?

25:32

What am I going to do for her? Cause it's like, he cares about her, but she just wants to go and like spill what's going on.

25:38

You know? Whereas the manual process different, Hey, look with that too.

25:42

One of the tools that I would say, please like if a man wants it, needs to go into man-cave and require that space.

25:48

So many women, I see take a personally, it's not personal.

25:51

It's like, if you just, if you ask, Hey, you know, honey, is there anything I can do for you?

25:57

And it's like, if he says no, then allowing that space because that space, if you allow them that space, then when you guys come together, it's going to be greater.

26:05

But don't take it personally. It's not personal.

26:07

Like it personally, I

26:12

don't take it personally, but I like you when you snuggle with me.

26:15

Oh I, okay.

26:17

So first you're so funny.

26:20

Okay. So we've talked about how trying to change your partner creates resentment.

26:24

Let's talk about how sometimes people would rather be right than be free, which is something you write about.

26:31

Yeah. What does that mean? That's

26:33

a huge topic. And so even if it, if you just look at the energy of it, so many people would rather be right than be free.

26:41

Like if you can actually acknowledge when like it one tool, you can say, you know what?

26:48

You're right. I'm wrong. You're right. I'm wrong.

26:50

Say it three times to your partner. I can guarantee you.

26:53

It's like, they'll end up going.

26:55

No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Like, and then creating something different with you.

26:59

Cause we, we stand our ground so much, but what I would like you to have with everything and it's like, have a look at it is having the rightness of your point of view, creating something greater.

27:10

Or if you've got over your point of view and you went, you know what I'm done, I'm over my point of view, let's do this so that you're not holding onto something that doesn't really matter.

27:19

It doesn't mean anything. We make our, the rightness of our point of view.

27:23

So meaningful and so significant.

27:25

And if you are willing just to lose and change your point of view, like every minute of the day, then you would have more freedom.

27:32

So Yeah,

27:35

I think a lot of it goes back to ego.

27:37

And I agree with what you're saying in, in many different facets of the conversation we've had for the past 20 minutes is I feel like a lot of it goes back to ego because we talk about like, you know, certain people in relationships have certain places.

27:49

Like I find that I, I'm not perfect by any stretch, but I have a good idea of what my place is within our relationship.

27:56

You know, specifically with Ashley and another thing, like you talked about finance, I know a lot of guys who feel wildly insecure because their ego gets the best of them when their wife makes more money than them.

28:08

And then we go now to this point where it's like, Hey, I want to be right.

28:11

Even if I'm not helping the relationship, I just want to be right for being right.

28:17

Because it helps feed my ego.

28:19

Like I'm not going to give up on this point.

28:20

And so I don't know what to do to change that because you know, I suffer from it.

28:25

I feel like a multitude of people suffer from it.

28:27

The fact that like you just, you get insecure sometimes and your ego gets the best.

28:32

Can You think of a fight that you and I had that you just wanted to win?

28:37

That you didn't like that you could have dropped?

28:40

Oh Yeah. It's mostly mundane, stupid stuff that I look back upon.

28:45

And I'm like, why the hell did I care about putting the forks there instead of there?

28:50

But it's more, I don't know. It's also like You,

28:54

you love Fi

28:56

you're good at fighting. You're way better at arguing than I am.

28:59

Because like you have some lawyer brain.

29:01

So you're able to make a point.

29:03

Even if you don't think that the point is like the right, the rightest Point,

29:08

like you can argue it better.

29:10

And it's so annoying.

29:11

It's Annoying because when I argue, I don't try to prove my own point.

29:16

I just try to disprove hers.

29:18

Yeah. So it's that, that's the need too.

29:21

Is that the need to be right then? Simone?

29:23

Yeah, Absolutely. But what I would add is, I mean, you're building evidence.

29:27

I love it. I love it. The lawyer fight in the relationship.

29:30

It's what I would ask is like next time that occurs just for the fun of it.

29:36

Just for the sheer fun of it. What if you just went no one honey.

29:39

You're right. I'm wrong. And see what shows up.

29:42

No matter how hard. Yeah. Oh, I do that all the time.

29:45

And then it's exactly what you discussed.

29:47

Cause then Ashley feels so guilty and she's like, no, no, no, no.

29:50

I shouldn't have made a big deal of it. And I was like, yeah, you kind of right.

29:52

You shouldn't have, but I apologize first. So I went, He

29:55

doesn't apologize. I Have

29:57

to, this is funny. Cause I have two friends that are in their first year of marriage and they do this, but they do it sarcastically and it's hilarious.

30:05

I'll be around them and there'll be arguing.

30:07

And then one of them will say, huh, that's a good point.

30:10

I hadn't thought about it like that before.

30:12

But like it's so, and then we all just start laughing, but the fight really does end, but it's like so sarcastic.

30:18

Cause they know they disagree, but they're like, okay, you win.

30:22

Well, It's like, you've got to look at what argument are you trying to win here?

30:26

I mean, one of the things, one of the tools like Brendan and I never argued, we didn't have one argument in eight years.

30:32

And even when we broke up and everyone's like, that's weird.

30:36

And I'm like, what if that wasn't weird. And there was one time I was, we live across the road from the beach and I was really annoyed at him.

30:43

I don't even remember why I was annoyed at him, but I went to the beach and then I was talking to my friend, Gary Douglas, who I work with in the states.

30:51

And he said to me, you need to go home and make everything about him.

30:55

That is the last thing I wanted to do. I wanted everything to be about me, but I went, you know what?

30:59

I've been using these tools with access consciousness, which is what I work with for years.

31:03

And they work. So I walked back in the house and I just started making everything about him.

31:07

Like everything about him.

31:09

And within 10 minutes, he's like, honey, do you want me to get you a drink?

31:12

What can I make you for dinner tonight? And I was sitting there going, oh my God, this works.

31:16

But I could have, like, that was scenario one, which I chose.

31:20

I could've walked back in with this energy of separation.

31:23

And then subtext was, I need you to make everything about me.

31:27

And he's sitting there wondering what the hell did they do wrong in the first place anyway.

31:31

And create that anxiety rather than to me, that first scenario or what a, what I chose it makes, you know, like Jared was saying, it's like, you can't even remember what you're arguing about.

31:42

It makes it meaningless. It's like, it doesn't mean anything.

31:44

Like, is it really that important to you?

31:46

Or is that creation ship more important and prevalent?

31:50

Like what can you create from that? It's

31:53

about being the bigger person. What if you're in a relationship where you feel like you're always doing that though, and you don't feel like the other ones, then I Would

32:00

ask relationship. Are you sure you want one?

32:02

Right, right.

32:04

Yeah. Nice little plug there.

32:07

I want to go back just For a second. Just to like, just to make this about me and Jared hers.

32:11

I got one. Was there a time that was there a time where I ever tried to change you?

32:16

That you resented? I love this live on Podcast.

32:20

Here we go. That's a great question.

32:22

I'm very Open about our relationship. I would say probably the most one I can think of most right now is my sports, the sports part of my life that you haven't really interacted with.

32:35

Now that we moved back to the east coast and I'm with my friends and I'm playing more sports with them and playing, whether it be golf or just like going to play pickup basketball or softball.

32:44

I think it's, it's very obvious how annoying it is to you because it's like, Hey, I'm going to do this.

32:51

And, and it's less time with you.

32:54

Even though we spend so much time together, I would say, I can tell that it's not something you want me to change, but it's also like something you wouldn't hate if I stopped doing.

33:04

And it's very noticeable, like your attitude towards it.

33:07

So I guess that would be something that's like, well, babe, this is what I love.

33:10

It's what I love doing. Like I'm going to continue doing it.

33:13

Yeah. But I don't get annoyed when you do. I don't get annoyed by you doing it.

33:16

I think I get annoyed by like, you make it seem like a need and not a want.

33:22

And it's a hundred percent I need, I'm sorry. As we talked about the man cave in my, in this case, the man cave is playing sports is very much a necessity in the relationship to make me happy, which contributes to our relationship.

33:33

And the whole thing just gets better.

33:35

Well Then in that case, you have to go and do those things and then you come back, but then you don't go into the man cave.

33:40

Then you have to spend more time with Me. I spend plenty of time.

33:43

Let's move on. Simone. I have a question for you.

33:45

Cause On me and asked me the question.

33:47

I know, But honestly, we've talked so much about us and our relationship.

33:50

I want to talk about people that are not in a relationship right now.

33:54

Okay. Not just who are trying to find dating, but you know, Simone and I, I'm not going to say that you're hung up on your ex.

34:00

One of my point is I want to talk about advice that you have for people out there that are having difficulty being single in today's world and possibly, you know, it's such a hard world to date in right now.

34:16

And there's so many people that are like, Hey, I really like you.

34:20

I just don't know if I want to be in a relationship, which is totally fine.

34:24

But it's like, I don't know if you could just talk about that aspect of, of dating.

34:30

Yeah. You probably won't like what I'm going to say.

34:32

But my point of view is if you're not in a relationship, you don't want one.

34:35

You actually create your whole life.

34:37

You create the way it shows up.

34:39

Like if you have money, you created money.

34:41

If you have no money, you created no money.

34:43

You're in a relationship you created that I have had so many, you know, dealt with so many different, you know, women, et cetera.

34:51

Women are the main ones who go, oh, I like a relationship that I've spoken to, but I'm like, do you really like, I mean, when I broke up, it's like, and I'm definitely not hung up on my ex.

35:01

It's like, I'm so grateful that we're not together anymore.

35:04

And we talk about it, but we're really good friends.

35:06

We work together. It's like we still have investments together.

35:09

And when I looked at it, when we broke up, I went, oh, do I actually want to be in a relationship?

35:15

Cause I wasn't quite sure. So what I did for me, cause I it's an, I was in, you know, self quarantine, you know, locked down that whole thing.

35:23

So you have a lot of time on your hands. So I actually wrote down like in an Excel spreadsheet, these columns and I wrote down relationship sex because so many people put them together and they don't have to be together, business, money, body, and geographical.

35:38

And I wrote down all those topics.

35:40

And I started to just as throughout my day, I would write down what I liked about all those things or what I desired to ask for, because I realized there's aspects of relationship that I really enjoy.

35:50

Like I love that, you know, cooking dinner in the kitchen, glass of wine, music, playing like that interaction and engagement talking about what we're creating, et cetera.

36:00

But I have like, one of my best mates is this gay guy married that lives not far from me.

36:04

I get so much of that from, but I don't have sex with him.

36:07

And it's like, so, and I looked at my house and I mean, do I actually want to share this house with someone again, not in this moment.

36:14

And it was like, okay, so then what do I want with sex?

36:17

And then write down what I'd like with that and started to look at it.

36:20

So I think if you, you need to get really clear on what it is you desire.

36:24

Cause do you want to have kids?

36:26

Do you want to get married? Do you want to, you know, like, do you want to love that one that you meet up with once a week?

36:30

I love sleeping in a bed with someone whose is a contribution.

36:33

Like it's I love that, that snuggle in that whole thing.

36:37

But I also love being in my bed on my own and completely just start fishing the bed, you know, it's like, like taking up all the rooms.

36:45

So, and, and that's why, like, if you get clear for you, then you can request what it is that you desire and you need to what's that.

36:57

I don't know if I can agree with the whole, if you want to be your relationship, you would be in a relationship though, because like there's something to finding the right person to be in a relationship.

37:05

Yeah. He just said the right person. So that's the, that's the definition that changes it because truly there's a lot of people out there who want to be in relationship.

37:12

If you're in a relationship, you'll create it.

37:14

But when you go to the right person, then what, what judgements do you have of what that right person is like?

37:21

You know what? The movie George Clooney was in it.

37:25

Oh God, it's it's a while ago.

37:29

And this is who else?

37:31

Yeah. Give us more context. I love this. We

37:34

love this stuff and they're really good at playing.

37:37

They want to play. Okay.

37:41

And let me see, what are we getting in a box?

37:44

And the young girls going, you know, I want to find someone who's got this, this and this.

37:48

And she's like, stipulating, the college has gone to the, you know what?

37:51

He looks like the car, he drives like all this sort of stuff.

37:54

And the woman who's a bit older goes, you know what?

37:57

By the time you get to my age, you just hope he has a full head of hair and he makes you laugh.

38:01

And I

38:03

remember that because It's like, if you go the right person, what I would like you to break down is what have you decided is the right person?

38:11

Do you have all these stipulations that you're never going to find?

38:16

Like I said, you know, Brandon, when I looked at that, it's like all those things he had, you wouldn't have gone.

38:21

My wishlist is someone who's 11 years younger than me who has a five-year-old kid who, you know, that's not going to be your quote unquote wishlist.

38:28

But what I was asking for by that time, cause I chose, I definitely chose men in my life who were judgmental, you know, it wasn't I had been there done that.

38:38

And, and what I was asking for is someone who was kind and caring and nurturing to show up.

38:45

Yeah, I agree with you. Ashley's not going to like this, but I even, when we first started dating, like when I confessed my feelings of was I a hundred percent sure that you were quote the right person?

39:02

Of course not. Yeah. Well you Apparently

39:04

got sure within like two months, It

39:07

wasn't so much of like, oh, I'm a hundred percent sure it was.

39:10

I love this girl.

39:13

I want to be with her.

39:14

I don't want my life without her. So I'm going to go full in and commit.

39:19

And it was the best decision I made because then we realized, this is what I want.

39:23

But I think so many people to your point, Simone, they're like, oh, I'm looking for the right person.

39:27

And it's like, you really have to ask yourself what the right person is.

39:31

Because I think people have this idea in their head that everything has to be perfect or there's going to be no hurdles to work through.

39:37

And it's like, that's just not a relationship, unfortunately.

39:39

And it's it's relationships can be messy and they can be difficult and it will be stressful and there's going to be fights sometimes.

39:46

And it really just depends on what, you know, pros and cons you weigh.

39:50

And it's interesting that you brought up that movie up in the air because this is a quote that I always go back to specifically in that movie, George Clooney is talking to Danny McBride's character.

39:57

Who's getting cold feet raped before they get married.

40:00

And he's talking about, am I making mistake?

40:02

Do I want to spend the rest of my life with someone like I'm so confused?

40:05

And George Clooney says, think about the happiest moments in your life, the moments in your life, you wouldn't trade for anything in the world where you alone.

40:14

And he's like, no.

40:16

And he's like, well, I think you kind of answered your own question then.

40:19

And like, I think about these moments and most of the time, my life like specific with Ashleigh and I, it's not so much the moment itself rather than the person I spent it with.

40:28

And so that was something I also thought of a lot while you know, us committing to, you know, a relationship that we ultimately knew was going to end up in marriage was the idea that I there's always going to be doubt, but that's just part of life.

40:47

I, I love, I love what Jerry just said and I want to piggyback off it off of it because I do think it's what you're, it's what both of you guys are saying, right?

40:57

Simone, it's like, you have to be clear on what you want.

40:59

And if commitment is what you want, love is a choice.

41:01

It's a decision you decide to commit to that person because there is no like one person that's going to check all the boxes.

41:08

And I read, I recently am like, you know, still going through a breakup somewhat.

41:14

And I read this quote that was, so it kind of touches on the doubt you were saying Jared, but it was so profound for me.

41:21

It was in his book called even cowgirls, get the blues.

41:25

And it basically was saying like, when desire meets fate, right?

41:29

Like when something, you really want me to fate that creates like something you really wanted to happen.

41:35

And then fate brought, brought it to you.

41:38

That's successful. But then the line after it says, but success shouldn't be the absolute in life.

41:45

And then it's the last line that kills me.

41:47

Success can eliminate as many options as failure.

41:51

And so if what you really want is like fate, right?

41:56

And you get this thing you really want.

41:57

It's like, you're always that little sliver of doubt is what you're saying.

42:01

It's like, you never know what life could have been.

42:03

You know what I mean? And everybody always thinks the grass is greener.

42:07

Right? Everyone thinks the grass is greener because they're married.

42:09

I'm single. You know, I I'm like, I really want to be in a relationship.

42:14

Maybe I need to be more clear with what I want.

42:16

But like, I, I am totally like in accordance with that.

42:22

Like, no one's going to be perfect. You know?

42:24

But there are certain things that like, I know will make me happy and wall, but I do want you to talk about, cause you talk about in your book, Simone, this is like a great segue.

42:32

Is that a lot of people live for the happily ever after.

42:35

And maybe there's a little bit of that that lived in me.

42:39

I think I like had this fantasy of what love is and what love looked like a couple years ago.

42:44

But I think a lot of us live for the happily ever after.

42:47

And you write in your book that it creates misery now.

42:51

So why does that create misery searching for your happily ever after?

42:55

And can I jump in for one second before you go into that?

42:58

Cause I just want to bounce off a point that you made NAS that I think is very interesting because I completely agree with you like this idea of when desire meets fate, that creates success.

43:06

And I completely agree, but I think some people believe that, oh, once that success is made, it's over and it's like, no, no, no, no, no, no success does not mean that it's going to be sustainable.

43:19

That's at the point in the relationship I find when you have to make the choice of commitment and continue to make that choice.

43:27

And it's not like once you make the choice, it's over or when fate meets desire, it's over.

43:32

That's truly just the beginning.

43:34

And I dunno, that was the one I want to make.

43:38

But now some of them want to hear you today. You, you pretty much said like what I was going to say in a way it's like, because it's like that moment that you say that, that you've got success and then you go, oh, I've got the fairy tale.

43:49

You just, you start destroying the relationship rather than because you start maintaining it or you've got the answer or you've got it right again, rather than what if every day you woke up and you were in question of what next, so you don't assume that it's like, okay.

44:04

So let's, you know, let's put a deposit on the rocking chairs so that we can be, you know, rocking out on the veranda.

44:09

When we ate together, it's like, oh, you still being questioned.

44:13

It's like, what next, what next, what next?

44:15

Like at one stage, you know, before 2020, I was traveling a lot, like for the last 17 years.

44:21

And at one stage I said, I was talking in my relationship about, I think I want to go live in Europe for awhile and based myself there, but it wasn't that we were going to break up, but Brendan had a kid.

44:33

So we were like, okay, let's talk about it.

44:35

Like, you know, and I was like, you can come over during the holidays and et cetera.

44:39

And I didn't end up doing it, but I did spend a lot of time there.

44:42

So, but it wasn't me holding back what I wanted to choose based on now I'm in a relationship and that we have to have this house and we have to have this.

44:50

It's like, don't go to the conclusion of what your relationship is.

44:54

And I'm going to say most relationships that, and they started being maintained, not created.

45:00

I know for myself historically, that's definitely what happened.

45:04

You sort of, you end up just being in this, this, you know, people call it a rut and it's like, to me, it, it looked okay.

45:11

It wasn't bad, but definitely was maintenance.

45:15

Like, you know, we bought this block of land on the beach.

45:18

We started a medic meeting with this architect.

45:21

It was beautiful spot.

45:22

We were going to build the perfect house in the perfect neighborhood and have this perfect relationship.

45:28

But what we realized was that's not what either of us actually wanted.

45:32

We were just doing the next step that I'm going to say, this reality projected at you, that you should do.

45:37

And both of us went, I don't think this is what we want to do.

45:41

And that's actually, when we ended that relationship is going okay, we're maintaining.

45:45

We're not creating. I think that's, Yeah.

45:49

There's a quote by Albert Einstein that says, once you stop learning, you start, once you stop learning, you start dying.

45:55

And I feel like that is something that you could use towards relationship because once you stop creating and you start maintaining, that's when the relationship starts dying.

46:06

Right. And I love that example of it.

46:08

Just like, just like an example, like you can even, I'm just saying that like when, what is it?

46:15

Yes. How many people's sex lives?

46:17

And I hear this a lot in the seminars I go to once they'd been together for a while, their sex life becomes something that's more a maintenance rather than a creation better, the same, same, same time, amount of times they have sex or it's like the same way they have sex or something like that.

46:34

And it's like, what if sex was something that was always creative?

46:37

And I'm not saying like basic vanilla style sex is also great.

46:43

But what if you actually were in question with it?

46:47

Right. And I think, I think that's the key to life, right?

46:50

It's like bigger than relationships.

46:51

Can we approach every day, create our own happiness with like this childlike curiosity?

46:56

Like not when are we going to get this house?

46:59

And when is this guy going to ask me out and is he going to marry me?

47:02

It's just like today, am I happy?

47:04

What's going to happen?

47:06

This is so cool. Like I read this quote one time where someone was like, life is just one big unfurling mystery and the less, I think it's just, it sums everything up that you're trying to say.

47:16

The less we try and control how it's supposed to look and what's supposed to happen.

47:21

Like if you're married to someone and they want to move to Europe, like, do you need a breakup?

47:27

Or is it like, oh, I'm just letting this person, I love do what they want.

47:30

That's an extreme to some people.

47:32

I think to us three, that's a little for us, Simone.

47:35

I don't want my person moving to Europe in the middle of like our marriage, but like in Wyoming, exactly.

47:41

I'd moved to Montana, Wyoming, but I think that's what you're saying.

47:45

It's like, what if we made a choice to create happiness every day with that person that I think what I have found in my recent experience and I'm hopeful that one day it won't is that I am very much ready and excited and am clear that I want to create with someone.

48:03

But I think, I think I've meet, I'm meeting older men that necessarily don't want to change or maybe don't want to create.

48:11

And I think it's hard because I think in relationships it's a dance.

48:15

And it's what Jared was saying. Like ego on both sides.

48:18

Not just them, obviously I've contributed to like the end of something as well.

48:22

But it's like, it's hard when you're super willing to like dance and play and create.

48:28

And someone like is like, this is who I am and they don't necessarily want to create.

48:33

Yeah, you can just say, that's really great that you said I contributed to the end of something as well.

48:38

Do you know how few people acknowledged that it takes two to create a relationship and it takes two to break it up, even if one of them was the one that initiated it, you still contributed to the end of it.

48:50

So that's refreshing.

48:51

Thank you. Thanks job NAS.

48:55

Thank you. Thank you. I'm very, self-aware of all my traumas and inadequacies.

49:00

And are you also aware of the greatnesses of you?

49:03

I am, but I don't, I don't think I've like fully grown into them and like believed them and like projected them.

49:14

Do you know what I mean? It's like, I know my worth.

49:17

I know my worth. Am I behaving?

49:18

Like I really know my worth sometimes.

49:21

Maybe sometimes I'm not, but it's hard.

49:25

I think it's, it's really, I think what you said before is really gray and hazy for me because when I look at my last relationship, I'm like, I kind of came in guns, ablazing.

49:34

It was like my first real relationship.

49:36

Well, I don't want to say guns a blazing, but I was like, you should probably not smoke because that's something that's like, not healthy for you and for just people long-term, you know what I mean?

49:46

And now I like, if I entered another relationship, I didn't say it like that.

49:51

Actually I was just like around me. Would you mind not?

49:54

Is what I said, but was that, do you think that was me trying to control and change.

49:59

Like I think so You

50:01

just twist it though, because you said around me, so that's not telling them not to, like, there was a guy that I was seeing for a while in Melbourne.

50:09

And, But I, but I kind of meant then that opened the conversation and I was like, this is not my preference.

50:16

Long-term and then it was like, well, this is an addiction.

50:20

If I stopped for a year and I start again next year, are we going to be together?

50:25

And that was when I had to look in the mirror.

50:27

Right. And I was like, what, what does that mean?

50:30

Do what I don't know. You know?

50:32

So If you're not trying to work it out before you're there, because that's also going into the conclusion that, oh, if they give up, they might start in a year.

50:40

So you've always on this. Like, you know, you're walking on eggshells rather than like, you know what, today's a great day.

50:48

Yeah. But I don't think any of us think in today terms, I think most of all of us Humans

50:52

think I

50:55

know, but how do you do that? If you're just one and the other person doesn't, he's, He's

50:59

a key tool. And this is something that I really worked at was something that we do talk about in our book.

51:05

And it's called fi it's the five elements of intimacy.

51:08

Okay. And because most people are looking for this intimacy in another to me, you've got to have this with yourself before you can fully have this with somebody else.

51:17

And the five elements of intimacy would be gratitude.

51:21

So gratitude, great being grateful for yourself, allowance, trust, honor, and vulnerability.

51:27

And if you can be those five elements of intimacy with you and what I did cause you know that OCD in me, it's like, I wrote them on little post-it notes and had them on the mirror, in my bathroom.

51:37

And every day I would look at it and I would sort of like have this energy of destroying and creating anywhere that I was in judgment in myself, that I wasn't willing to be those five elements of intimacy of gratitude, trust, allowance, vulnerability, and honor.

51:52

And once I can be, be that with me, then you can include somebody else in your life that you can have that with them.

52:00

But you can't like to me, it's like, if you're looking for that in another, then you've already started this like downfall of something that is not going to create something greater.

52:09

And to me, like I said, right at the beginning, if you, it's not right or wrong to be in a relationship or be single, it both is just a choice.

52:16

But if you're going to choose a relationship, make it great.

52:19

Like make it awesome. What

52:22

does allowance mean within? Okay,

52:25

so allowance, like how many times did you judge yourself today?

52:28

Rather than being an allowance? It's like, you know what?

52:31

Whoops, like I always say, it's a good thing.

52:33

I'm cute. Cause sometimes I'm not very smart. It's like maybe you post something and you're like, okay.

52:38

You know, but what if you're in allowance of yourself and you didn't judge yourself, That's

52:44

like some high level of enlightenment shit there.

52:46

That's like payoti with Matthew McConaughey and Joshua tree.

52:49

Like most people I don't think can ever do that can ever do what?

52:54

Not judge yourself. I

52:56

don't really judge myself. It's

53:02

wild. It's wild. But most humans, I guess sometimes I do.

53:06

Like sometimes I'm like, I'm dumb. I think that's probably like my biggest critique of myself is just like how I'm very bad at articulating, like how I'm feeling like I'm actually good at explaining how I'm feeling.

53:19

But like I have points that I like to make that I can't articulate.

53:22

And I think that's the one thing I get on myself a lot.

53:26

Yeah. And you're being a little too hard on yourself. Cause you've been on television and millions of people relate to you and you have like multiple podcasts.

53:32

So clearly you've articulated in Some

53:35

way. Incredible way you articulate it pretty well.

53:39

There, You don't articulate as like a news anchor that you look up to on television, but why would you want her?

53:44

It is so much more articulate.

53:48

We're very even parked. Really. I really don't but that's good to hear.

53:53

But anyway. Yeah. I don't really judge myself too hard.

53:55

Good thing. You're cute. Cause you're not that smart.

53:57

Now I tell myself that it doesn't think He's

54:00

that cute, which is a whole big wish Let's

54:03

move on. Please. Love God. Aren't they?

54:08

The bad guys. All right.

54:11

Anyway, I have a question for just a moment before we wrap up, do you a very handsome, well, thank you so much to that is the question I was going to ask.

54:19

Do you think I'm cute? Simone?

54:25

Do you believe in soulmates?

54:29

No, she definitely does not.

54:30

I Figured I'm kind of teeing that up for you.

54:35

Jared. Doesn't believe in salvation. Don't I, I, ah, I Mean,

54:39

I don't know. I'm think I'm quite a bit older than all of you guys as well.

54:41

And I I've had some amazing like connections and interactions with people and I continue to, I don't feel like it's stopped.

54:52

So I, if I looked at one person early on, that was my soulmate.

54:57

Yeah, no I don't.

54:59

I think there's so many people that you can engage with and interact with and, and, and create so much around the world.

55:05

Like I look at nature a lot. I use that as an analogy and there's, I mean, there's very few animals that just have one person it's like, they put, there are some, yeah, the bougainvillea, the big windows, like we're not, we're not penguins.

55:23

Like we're not, Oh,

55:26

I want my Bougainville penguin.

55:28

I was just reading about the ones in Simon town in South Africa.

55:33

I ask for it. And it's like, so I think I'm pro choice.

55:36

If you want to find someone that is, you know, you're with for the rest of your life, then that's awesome.

55:40

And it's like, for me, that personally never really worked.

55:44

It's like, and I, like I said, I'm so grateful for the different relationships that I've chosen.

55:48

I'm grateful for where I am right now too.

55:51

But I become more of me.

55:55

Wait as somebody who's appreciated multiple relationships, but isn't in one.

56:00

Now, do you ever get like really nostalgic towards your old relationships and like almost brainwashed yourself into thinking that you were lying?

56:07

No, I don't. And I actually get asked that question a lot.

56:10

No. And I'm actually friends with the majority of my X's like, cause I liked them, you know, originally.

56:18

How do you know when it's time? How do you know when?

56:21

And if you can be friends with an Well,

56:23

I think it, again, it takes two people, like one of the things that, and it's a great tool.

56:28

One of the things that I did with Brandon was we went, okay, let's write down three things that we're asking of each other, like as way of breaking the relationship up.

56:38

And I thought originally I was like, okay, three things.

56:41

And it's like, who gets the house? Who gets that?

56:43

Who gets that? You know, I was looking at things and then I, I took some space for myself.

56:47

I looked at it, I went, oh, my first top of the list is his friendship.

56:51

Cause I, I like him. I've always liked him.

56:54

So, but we weren't creating this great, like love, I'm going to say relationship anymore.

57:01

And then when he looked at his list and we came together and we both sat there on the top of his list was friendship too.

57:07

So I think it takes two people to say yes to that friendship.

57:12

Well, my question to that is, is bread.

57:14

I'm sorry, Brendan or Brendan.

57:16

Brendan is Brendan dating someone else.

57:20

Yeah. He's was actually dating someone who was a mutual friend of ours.

57:23

He's living in America now too. And

57:27

is she, is she okay with you guys being friends?

57:32

That's a good question. I feel like it's also up to that Good

57:36

question. Okay. We all, we actually all work together as well.

57:39

And I remember at one stage we were in Costa Rica and we're at this resort.

57:43

We had this big conference on and we had this thing like Brendan and I, because we were a lot of people know us too with, within what we do.

57:50

So a lot of people were like looking at us and watching the breakup.

57:53

I felt like we broke up on social media or on TV rather than just in our own world.

57:59

And so we had this thing where we, we would text each other and you know, like a safety word.

58:05

So that sort of thing like you okay.

58:07

And you're doing okay because so many people had projections of what we should be doing or not be doing.

58:12

So, and at one stage I remember he texted me and we were at, this is like 150 people there.

58:16

And he said, let's meet outside.

58:18

And we went and chatted and I said, Hey, I don't think it's me.

58:21

That's got something going on. I think it's Megan, your girlfriend.

58:24

I think you need to ask her if she's okay.

58:27

Because so many people had this point of view that we should be together.

58:30

We didn't, but they did like, and I would have to talk to them.

58:34

So it was, I think really keeping that conversation going and being aware of what's popping up and going okay, are you okay?

58:42

You okay? Is everything okay? Now?

58:44

I would say that. We're definitely okay.

58:46

I mean, I'm friends with her.

58:49

He's with her. So yeah.

58:52

Were, but it hasn't been, we were saying we should wait a second book called, breaking up is easy ish, because you can make it easy, but there's definitely some moments that are really Rocky and very vulnerable.

59:05

Like I remember we took, we came home, we were, we were overseas and came home and we were breaking up and Brandon said, okay, let's go out.

59:13

And the Brando, we grabbed a bottle of wine, two glasses, and went, let's go out into the veranda and let's just put on the table, like what's up between each other.

59:23

And we were literally like willing to go to world war three to say everything.

59:26

And we sat there, drank this bottle of wine and we had one of the best conversations we've ever had because we were both willing to go, okay, this piece about you, this piece about you, dah, dah, dah.

59:36

Okay. Now what are we going to do? What are we going to choose?

59:38

Because it wasn't an easy break.

59:40

I mean, I don't know how marriages break up when you're financially so connected.

59:44

And if you don't like each other, it's like, oh my goodness, the poor accountant, it's like a nightmare.

59:49

Like we're still some things that we, we kept together so that we could have the wealth creation and yet at the right moment change it, which we're doing now because it's the end of the financial year in Australia.

1:00:01

So we're looking at it like what what's greater for both of us, not like there's, you know, dusted off and just leave.

1:00:07

You know? So, which is, I think it's very texts encouraged to, to look at a breakup like that.

1:00:15

It takes two people to absolutely.

1:00:19

And I definitely did the, you know, I'm taking the house cause he was the one who initiated the breakup.

1:00:25

And I did that, that goal trauma, drama, you know, you know, being angry and all that sort of thing.

1:00:31

And then I literally, we were away in Italy because we were working there and there's a whole lot of things going on.

1:00:36

I was so angry at him. And then I went, God, this is taking, this is like hurting me and my body.

1:00:42

Like it was taking so much energy to be that angry.

1:00:44

That at one point I went and spoke to him and I went, Hey, do you want to just go have lunch together?

1:00:50

Like can just chat. And he was like, I would love that.

1:00:52

And it was just because I'm like, I'm not, I don't hate you.

1:00:55

It's like, I actually like you.

1:00:57

So, so how can we look at this different?

1:01:00

And I think everyone really needs to look at whether you're creating relationship, breaking up single, whatever it is.

1:01:05

As I said before, get clear on what it is you want.

1:01:07

And you're not less than that's very much like if a relationship breaks up, it doesn't mean that you're less than because you're not, it's like you're far greater than what you're willing to acknowledge.

1:01:17

I mean, you know, I mean, Ashley was saying that, you know, that she's willing to look at this part, but if you're willing to have a look at the greatnesses that you have and what if that was what we could choose?

1:01:30

Yes. Amen. Yes. Ma'am wait, Simone, how do you say your last name?

1:01:36

Oh, Millicent.

1:01:39

Okay. Okay. All right. Y'all that was Simone Melissas and she's the author of relationship.

1:01:45

Are you the one? Where can they find the book on it?

1:01:50

Yeah, it's A good relationship. Are you sure you want one and yet you can find on Amazon.

1:01:54

Yeah. And

1:01:56

where else can people? Well, Actually

1:01:58

there's no other Simone Melissa's in the world.

1:02:01

So if you Google someone, it's like, apparently I got that name.

1:02:05

So, and it's Simone, M I L a S a S.

1:02:08

So you can find everything there.

1:02:10

Okay. Amazing. Well, thank you so much for joining us today.

1:02:13

That was really eye opening in ways and fun.

1:02:16

That was great. It was great conversation and gloves.

1:02:18

Lots of things. Cut out now.

1:02:20

All right, bye bye.

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1:02:55

Yeah. Hi, what's up What's up, guys? Welcome to the I don't get a podcast. This is Naz. This is Ashley, and Jared's gonna be here, but Lauren's not going to be here today. I'm I'm always sad when Lauren's not on. It's She's the Lord's the best. But Jared's gonna be joining us because we're talking to this woman named Simone Milasas. I believe that's how he pronounce her last name. She's a relationship expert and the author of a book that's about how control is ruining RelationshipsPodcastsSociety actually called relationship. Are you sure you want one? Which she actually wrote funny enough with her ex partner Brendan Watt. Who she's still friends with and close with. can't wait to ask her about that. But basically, she just gives, like, no sugar coding relationship advice. She's anti traditional advice, and she thinks, like, when people wait for the one or wait for prince charming, that's like a very bad mentality to have. So we're gonna have her on, Jared's gonna be on, and, yeah, we'll talk to her about how control is ruining relationships. Mhmm. Alright. Let's get her on the call. Alright. Hello, Simone. So your whole thing, your whole thing in the book is about control and relationships and not sugar coating things. So let's talk about the four the I think you said four four unexpected ways that you're trying to control your partner. So let me know what I'm doing right now, subconsciously with Jared that have no idea that I'm doing. Well, right now, I think you guys actually look awesome. So I'm not I don't I don't know. Are you controlling him right now? Thank you, Simone. appreciate that. But don't worry. She controls me constantly throughout our relationship, and I'm sure you'll notice it throughout this podcast. That's okay. Someone who needs direction. We fit in well. I need direction. She gives me direction. I follow direction well. It's all good. Do you know I was actually just talking to a guy the other day about that how it's that's actually a thing. I didn't realize that. That was it called FLR, 40 led RelationshipsPodcastsSociety, I wear the pants. Yeah. But it's it's actually there's four stages. I know that this is not what we're gonna talk about, but I was googling it because that's what he was after was he called an FLR 40 led there's four stages of what it is. And it's basically like the female is making, in his words, like, all the choices for the greater of both. And I was like, that's most relationships I know. That looks like she tried to get away with it. Oh, I mean, Ashley, doesn't try to get away with I mean, Ashley doesn't try get away with it. She gets away it. But I also sh I also let her get away with it because I know, like you said, she's making the best decision, not just for herself, but for us But I also I also let her get away with it because I know, like you said, she's making the best decision not just for herself, but for us together. And why would I ever really try to go against that when I know that she's trying to do the right thing? Yeah. I think and I think in relationships, there's always one person who is more dominating than the other, and yet the piece that I would like to see change is when when people are trying to dominate the other person and control them, and it's not for the greater good of both. Like, you know, as an example, my ex is a keen surfer. He searched all the time. He grew up, you know, surfing. And when I was with him, at the beginning of our relation, too. He'd go out to go surfing. And he'd look at me, like, with this look on his face. Now I'm like, what's going on? And he's like, I'm about bad? You know, I feel like I'm about to get in know, I 40 like I'm about to get trouble. And I'm like, what four, you're going surfing, but his ex had the point of view, I don't serve, so you can't serve. I'm like, why would I do that? You go out surfing. You're out there for a few hours. You come back. Your body is just, like, vibrating. Like, every molecule is, you know, it it's, like, you're happy, it makes you happy. Why would I not desire for you to go out and serve and be happy? You come back into the house and it's like, you know, that's the energy I like to play with. So Yeah. That's like softball for me. That is definitely Jared softball. But I don't look at you like that unless, like, it's a family trip and you can't go because of softball. Yeah. That makes sense. Obviously, we have to prioritize which also for the record has not happened yet. There was a family trip planned that I was able to make work with going to softball and going to the family trip. And then he's gonna go hours out of his way, but it's fine. But it was my own way, you know? You were fine. You're gonna go with your family, and then I was gonna go to softball and then come back with the fan like it all worked out. Anywho, now as I GETIT question for you, now in your ideal setting, would you rather be in a relationship where you feel that you're leading more of the decision making. Do you want your partner to lead more of the decision making, or do you want it to be fifty fifty in your ideal setting That's a good question. I think my ideal but it's funny because Simone just said most people are in FLR, female relationships. think my ideal is I want it to be fifty fifty, but I wonder if that's even possible. Like, is that does one person always have to sort of take the lead? Are there a lot of successful fifty fifty I would say, yes, but not fifty fifty the way you think it is. So what if there was areas of the relationship that you took control and other areas where they took control, or they led is probably let's say leading. Leading is a little bit nicer. And that and that thing but so with my ex, It's like he was I mean, he was in, like, the top one hundred Master Chef in Australia. He's an amazing cook. I'm not gonna get What? He's gonna jump in the kitchen. Yeah. But I was the one I earned I was the wrong I would yeah. I earned more money. Like, I was I was working more. And so I was earning more money, so that was leading that piece. But he was leading so much of how we lived at home, like literally, like renovating the house and doing things like that. And can I also say, and if you if you guys wanted to go there too, in sex, it's like, how do you like that lead? Like, I know sometimes I really love me, but other times I love being led. So what if it is? Yeah. yeah. That's what I want. And also, I think I would be exhausted if I had to lead all of those things. Yes. Yeah, yeah, Yeah. Yeah. It would get boring. It's really nonsense. I would be like, I would be like, be an would be like I would be like be an active participant in this relationship. Okay. So maybe I should reword my initial question. In the book you talk about for unexpected ways you're trying to control your partner, is that only in unhealthy RelationshipsPodcastsSociety RelationshipsPodcastsSociety, like, having control in, like, the right way. Like, what control I don't know how to word that. Yeah. Well, I mean, I don't I don't think controlling is ever advantageous. Like I said, if we change that word into when you're leading, I think then then it can be advantageous because, you know -- Yeah. -- you know when it's your turn to lead. You know you know when it's your turn. Because if you look at the leading aspects, if you're being a leader in relationship and a leader in your life, It's like, then you are taking someone with you, but you're not telling them what should what should be or what they should do. So I do think that there's a lot of people who do, like, these ways of controlling expartner. And usually, it's to do with finance. It's to do with sex. Like someone who's earning more money or withhold finances. And then, like, I've seen a lot of this in a lot of relationships where one person's earning more money, that would hold money, and then the other person will withhold sex because that's what they've got. And it's like, wow. That's like their like their currency. That's so interesting. Can I can I just have a quick question just so I can understand the rest of our conversation better? Is trying to change your partner the same as trying to control your partner? Are those to your question. I would say yes, and it's like, what? I don't know. I'm a big fan of, like, you know, if if you wanna train something like I see, and especially women and III can get away with saying it because they see so many women trying to change someone rather than, you know, looking at the person they just meant being like, wow. How do we get so lucky? What can we create together, like, more of what I would call a creation chip. So and I I always say, if you wanna train something, get a puppy because it's like, do you want to be trained? Like telling someone what to do? I don't get is is conducive to creating something greater. And for me, I don't think you need relationship. I think it should be a choice, not a necessity. And I think nowadays, it is more of choice. It's not looked upon so bad. know, if you're if you're single, etcetera. And I think there's, you know, you go relationship and you go single. But there's so much more than that. There's so many more choices that we can have. It doesn't have to be, like, this binary coding. Like, it's not an either all. So I think if you get to explore that and You can find out what it's like to actually create with someone, which is on my what I have experienced so much nicer. So Ashley, you know what I've been doing four times a day, lately, four times a day for, I don't know, that's a lie I've been taking nutraphyl and I have to say, I do feel like it's Ashley, you know what I've been doing four times a day lately? Four times a day. Four I don't know. That's a lot. I've been taking neutrophil. And I have to say, I do feel like it's working. If you guys don't know what Nutrafol is, it is basically a way for you to grow thicker, fuller, healthier If you guys don't know what neutrophil is, is basically a way for you to grow thicker, fuller, healthier hair. 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Like I feel like a lot of girls that I've met, they try always get like the bad boy because they think like, oh, I'm gonna be the one that turns him good and it never ends up working out because he just continues to be the bad boy. I'm a bad boy. I'm a bad boy. Once in my life, no. I'm a never bad boy. But my point being though I do think there are elements within a relationship where you have to try to change someone. Because my point being you know, like speaking on Ashley and mine relationship or any relationship I've had, I've never been in a perfect relationship because those just do not exist, and there are things that Ashley needs me to do better, and there are things that I need Ashley to do better in order to achieve my ultimate. Like, our our best selves. You know what I mean? Like, there are certain things that are very important, Ashley, that I'm not I'm lacking. And a person that loves her and wants to be there for her, those are things I'm saying, okay, I need to change a little bit because I need to be better at them. And then vice versa with Ashley, there are certain things that I need, that she lacks, that she's like, hey, I'm gonna try to be better in this aspect of our relationship. So ultimately, isn't that kinda changing the a little bit? Yeah. It He's changing the is changing the person. But to me, the way you describe that is really is is beautiful in the way it should be. Because to me, that's a RelationshipsPodcastsSociety you look at at the word relationship, if you look at a dictionary before nineteen thirty seven, it literally has the definition, the distance between two things. But if you look at what if you weren't in a relationship and what if you were in a relationship, then you are I mean, obviously, you're gonna change, like, but not having it, like, as a necessity that that person changes. Like, you must do this now or you must not do that. To me, that's what a creation is. Two people who are continuously contributing to each other becoming greater. Like, the definition we talk about is, what if you if you were in a RelationshipsPodcastsSociety if you had a RelationshipsPodcastsSociety you created at least twenty times more if you created at least twenty times more together than what you would align? And that's that's to me is the growth that you have. So but that's not about control. You actually want to you desire to contribute to each other. That's what it should be. Simple. So yeah. And I I'm getting a little bit of a clearer picture, but I just wanna make it even more clearer because I think Jared brings up a good point. It's very nebulous. Like, this is very nuanced. So for so I just wanna make sure we specifically outline ways that people control people in relationships because I wanna speak personally, like, if I need someone and they smoke cigarettes is, like, is supporting, telling them that that's not you know, technically, it's good for both of you, right, long term. Is that trying to control someone or is that supporting someone, like, in their health? Well, that's like, what is That's also stating what you desire. I mean, if you don't like someone who smokes cigarettes, it's like, then, you know, kissing someone takes on a whole new a whole new world. Burdened. Yeah. I think it's -- Right. -- it's your you're stating, you know, it's like that's not my preference. I mean, it's interesting because my ex. Right? And I think if you don't have this, you know, like, as Jared said, he's never had a perfect relationship. No one does. Perfection is a judgment. Right? And it's it's like, if I looked at a wish list, it's like, then my ex wouldn't have shown up. Like, I was eleven years older than him, He had a kid. He had a dog, which I was actually really grateful for. I really wanted a dog. And he smoked cigarettes. He snored, like, profusely. I'm really painting this picture, aren't I? Like, he's a bit I was about to say, sounds like a catch rate there. No. You bet. But he actually, he actually was like, he was the he actually he she was. Like, he was the kind of Yeah. When you love someone, you love them. Right? Yeah. So it's hard. It's really hard. Yeah. And then within our relationship, like, he he didn't stop smoking. He we actually got to some really cool stuff about the snoring because he was quite abused as kid. And one of the things that came up was if he he's snoring, he feels like the house is safe. So when he had that awareness, it's like, the soaring started to change. So there was things that's changed within the relationship because what we had for both of for each other was gratitude. And, you know, I can see that with you guys as well. It's like when you have gratitude for each other, then you do change as a person and you do change to create something greater what I would like to, you know, see change is, like, is the ways that someone will control someone in order to belittle them? And not make them greater. And that's a big difference. I think think it would have loved it. So that's the difference. Yeah. Like, women would So did you ask him did you ask him to stop smoking? What was that conversation? No. didn't. No. And do you know what? This is the weirdest thing. And you may you may realize this when I say it too. The people I know who smoke, like I've got a really good friend of mine this Italian girl that lives out here who rolls her own cigarettes. I swear to God, every time she smokes, I'm like, I wanna smoke because it just she she makes it look so good and I can see that she enjoys it. The people that enjoys it. That's how I feel when I watch ducks in the season. What you wanna drink cosmos? I want to wanna smoke like carrot. Yeah. She just looks so But she doesn't judge it. And that's the thing. It's like, I noticed that when people don't judge that they smoke, they don't tend to smell as It's like you I noticed that when people don't judge that they smoke. They don't tend to smell as much. The ones who judge when they smoke, they smell like I never noticed the smell on Brennan. So And then, I mean, he did he gave up smoking. But yeah. No. Wait. That wasn't a request of mine. I was just literally, I was grateful when I woke up. It was just like, wow. okay. We're still still together where, you know, we were together for eight years. We create a lot of financial wealth together. It's like we had a hell of a lot of fun. And then we sort of looked at it and went, okay, we released our book that we co wrote together called relationship. Are you sure you want one? And then we went, okay. I think we need to move on. Like -- Wow. -- when you wrote the book relationship, do you want one? Did you guys realize you didn't want the relationship together anymore? No. Not really. We were actually in America and in our PR agent had all these TV shows, books and everything as well. And we broke up the RelationshipsPodcastsSociety they gave her a heart attack and we're like, die. We've got this. Because we were still friends too, which was really interesting going on interviews. There was some people who really tried to, like, throw this wedge between us, but you can't throw wedge between to people who who don't desire that. So it was actually it ended up working in our favor because the the book name of the book is a question relationship. Are you sure you want Are you sure you want one? And that's what we both wrote it so that we we've got some great tools in it for creating great relationship, but also being questioned every day like don't make it this this necessity. Make it a choice, not a necessity. It's one of the things I would say. So can you give us examples of how control is ruining people's Specific examples? Yeah. I would say I see I see men and women drive people away by controlling the amount that they decide that they have to see the other person or what they have to do. So, I mean, a lot of women will do that subtext thing when when the guy says, hey, I'm gonna go and play softball with my mates. And then the woman goes Sounds like a good time. Exactly. You know, but then I mean, I'm not saying this is you guys, but then the woman goes, oh, yeah. That you know, that's fine, you know. Great. Go have fun. But what she really means is seriously, you're going again. It's like, you need to have the conversation. If if if that's bugging you, please say it. Like, I've been crazily on dating apps recently. Oh my god. They drive me crazy. I've just frozen my accounts. And does this one guy who is saying how he just wants, you know, he just wants to be friends, what hookups, etcetera? But everything about him is relationship. And I was just like, dude, like, he says he wants one thing, and then he wants another. And it's like, he he keeps saying, you eat dinner every night. You do this. Why can't you have time for me? And I'm like, wow. He just drove a wedge between it. So I was like, I I wasn't asking for a relationship, and that's what he's creating. So I think you need to get really clear on what it is that you're asking for. And most people don't do that. What comes out of someone's mouth is not is is not true so many times. You've got to listen to their heads. So there is a way that you are controlling someone in like, if I if I wasn't me, then I would have been guilt trip into meeting up with him. The way he was texting me. I was just like, I didn't I didn't have I didn't have time for this. It's like, thank you so much, but, you know, he drove it away because he was controlling it. So I see so many people drive someone away. They end up killing a relationship or killing anything by having that aspect of if you don't do this, there's there's hidden sort of, you know, punishment behind it. Let people be what they wanna choose. Like, I talk about these three tools to create a great relationship. One, good in bed. I think that's kept an obvious. Right? And it's like, number two, it's like contribute to each other. Helps if it's a a contribution like financially, but just that contribution. You know, it's not one person. It's not a one-sided relationship. And number three, let the other person do whatever the hell they want. Don't try. Like, relationship is not about like, relationship is not about ownership. It's not about control. And when I say that so many people go, oh, does that mean he, you know, he or she can go off and have sex with other people. I didn't say that. If that if that comes up, you guys need to have that conversation. But let them do whatever they want. Let them do what makes them happy. That will end up being a contribution to you. Like not a Hollywood movie. You don't have someone who completes you. You should have someone who contributes to you. Hey, NAS. I got to tell you about my dinner last I gotta tell you about my dinner last night. It was so It was so good. What did eat? What was it was sausage baked What did we eat? It was. It was sausage, baked, penny. It was so It was so good. It's one of those freshly meals, which I'm obsessed with all the It's one of those Fresh Lee meals, which I'm obsessed with -- All of that meals. I think they're under 600 calories and they taste I think they're under six hundred calories. And they taste amazing. They taste fresh and they're all like portion controlled for They taste fresh. Yeah. And they're all, like, portion controlled for you. You You know? Yeah. So if you're, like, stressed or tired, you don't 40, like, cooking. It's It's food that's fast. Like you're, it's in the microwave for three minutes and ready for you're it's in the microwave for three And ready for you. And it's not, and it's such high quality dinner, it's not it, like and it's such high quality dinner food. Like it literally takes trying to figure out what to eat for dinner or the like, it literally takes trying to figure out what eat for dinner. I'm out of equation. You know, I'm telling you guys on TV, You know? I'm telling you guys It's not TV dinner. Exactly. It's not TV dinner. Their pictures on their packaging is Their pictures on their packaging is out standing. And I find that sometimes I hate, like, you know, we eat frozen food and the picture looks amazing and then you open it and you're like, oh, this is what it is. You will not get that feeling with freshly You will not get that feeling with freshly meals. My favorite is a homestyle chicken with mac and cheese. Oh my God, the chicken, chicken, and Mac and cheese combo and makes my water Oh, my god. The chicken and mac is that one? The chicken and mac and use convo. It makes my water salivate. As I'm talking about it, your water salvation I'm talking about it. It makes your water salvey. I mean my salvation. See, I can't even See, I can't even think. And the best part is that ordering is easy for those of you that can't think like me, all you have to do is visit And the best part is that ordering is easy. For those of you that can't think like me, all you have to do is visit freshly dot com. You can choose over thirty delicious satisfying, better free meals. They have steak peppercorn, Ashley sausage, big penny, or their chicken pesto bowl is also pretty They have stake, peppercorn, Ashley sausage bake, penne, or their chicken pesto bowl is also pretty fire. Mhmm. And right now, Freshley is offering our listeners forty dollars off your first two orders when you go to freshly dot com slash get it. So stop stressing about dinner, go to freshly.com/get it for $40 off your first two orders, freshly F R E S H L y.com/get it to get $40 off your first two So stop stressing about dinner, go to freshly dot com slash get it. For forty dollars off your first two orders, freshly FRESHLY dot com slash get it. To get forty dollars off your first two orders. I feel like you have a lot to say. I can just tell by your favorite restaurant. No. No. There's just a lot going on up there. So when you rank those three things of being in a healthy, happy relationship, is is that an order that you think? Like number or is that just random? Like, do you think being good and Naz number one? It's random. Oh, okay. I mean, I I was like, alright. So Like, Like, I like Zach. So why wouldn't you have that as number one? Oh, no, it's no. Well, I think just coming from someone who's been in the long term relationships and now in a in a marriage. It's I think one of the most important part of our something that I'm constantly reminded of is that you know, my wife, Ashley, is someone that, sure, we're gonna have sex together, but we're also this is the person I'm gonna talk to every day for the rest of my life and have a conversation with. And that is something that I think people kind of forget about because they get lost and they lost in the in the the on factors so early on, which is an extremely unbelievably happy time in your life. But if you are truly going to try to choose someone for the rest of your life, I mean, for me personally, you you have to be with someone that you're okay being with constantly. But that that because I think another important part of a RelationshipsPodcastsSociety you said, is you need your own personal time, but it kinda takes some balls to ask your significant other saying, hey, I need to be away from you for little while. And Ashley and I, luckily, knock on wood, have that comparability level where we can say I need to go to my room for a little while. But look at what she wants to do. Look, she says she goes a man cave is very is more important than what you think. Couldn't agree more. Yeah, man, cave is a real Man cave is a real thing. Men process things differently. It's like, you know, they'll they'll go play video games. So go to us, or they'll hang out on their own. And it's like, whereas women don't process like that. Most women want to just talk about Most women wanna just talk about it. They wanna share. And when women starts sharing, a man does that, and this is generalization, I get it. But when a woman starts sharing and a man does that thing and going, okay, what am I gonna fix? What am I gonna do for her? Because it's like he cares about her, but she just wants to go and like spill what's going on, you know. Whereas man who will process different, hey, look with that too. One of the tools that I would say, please, like, if a man want needs to go in a man cave and require that space, so many women I see take it personally. It's not personal. It's like if you if you ask, hey, you know, honey, is there anything I can do for you? And say, if he says no, then allowing that space because that space, if you allow them that space, then when you guys come together, it's gonna be great up. But don't take it personally. It's not personal. Gotcha. take it personally, babe. I don't take it personally. But I like it when you snuggle with me. No. I okay. So first Yeah. You're so funny. Okay. So when you talked about trying to change your partner creates resentment. Let's talk about how sometimes people would rather be right than be free, which is something you write about. Yeah. What does that mean? That's a huge topic. And so even if if you just look at the energy of it, so many people would rather be right than be free. Like, if you can actually acknowledge when like, if a one tool you could say is, you know what? You're right. I'm wrong. You're right and wrong. Say it three times to your I can guarantee you. It's like they'll end up going, no. No. No. No. No. Like and then creating something different with you. Because we we stand our ground so much, but what I would like you to have with everything. And it's like, have a look at it, is having the rightness of your point of view, creating something greater, or if you got over your point of view and you went, you know what? I'm done. I'm over my point of view. Let's do this. So that you're not holding onto something that doesn't really matter, doesn't mean anything. We make our the rightness of our point of view so meaningful and so significant if you were willing just to lose and change your point of view, like, every minute of the day, then you would have more freedom. So it's really difficult. Think a lot of it goes back to ego. And I agree with who you're saying in in many different facets of the conversation we've had for the past twenty minutes is I feel like a a lot of it goes back to ego we talk about, like, you know, certain people in relationships have certain Like, I I find that I I'm not perfect by any stretch, but I I have a good idea of what my places within our relationship, you know, specifically with Ashley. And another thing like you talked about, finance. I know a lot of guys who feel wildly insecure because they're ego gets the best of them when their wife makes more money than them. And then we go now to this point where it's like, hey, I wanna be right. Even if I'm not helping the relationship. I just wanna be right for being right because it helps feed my ego. Like, I'm not gonna give up on this point. And so I don't know what to do to change that because, you know, I suffer from it. I feel like a multitude of people suffer from it. The fact that, like, you just you get insecure sometimes and your ego gets best So can You think of a fight that you and I had that you just wanted to you think of a fight that you and I had that you just wanted to win? That you didn't, like, that you could have dropped. Oh, yeah. It's mostly mundane stupid stuff that I look back upon. And I'm like, why the hell did I care about putting the forks there instead of there, but it's more I don't know. But Jared's also, like, you You, you love you love fight you're good at fighting. You're way better at arguing than I am. Yeah. Because, like, you have some lawyer brain, so you're able to make up point, even if you don't think that the point is, like, the right the rightest point, like, you can argue it better. Yeah. It's annoying. It's It's annoying because when I argue, I don't try to prove my own point. I just try to disprove hers. Yeah. So it's the it that's the need to is that the need to be right then, Simone? Yeah. Absolutely. But I what I would have to do is I mean, you're building evidence. I love it. I love it. The the lawyer fight in a relationship. It it's what I would ask is, like, next time that occurs, Just for the front of it. Just for the shoe front of it. What if you just went? No one, honey. You're right. I'm wrong. And see what shows up. No matter how hard. Yeah. Oh, Oh, I do that all the time. And then it's exactly what you discussed because then Ashley feels so guilty and she's like, no no no I shouldn't have made a big deal of it. And I was like, yeah, you kinda right you shouldn't have. But I apologize first so I win. Okay. He does oppose you guys first year. This is funny because I have two this is funny because I have two friends that are in their first year of marriage, and they do this, but they do it sarcastic. Quickly and it's hilarious. I'll be around them and they'll be arguing. And then one of them will say, that's a good point. I hadn't thought about it like that before. But, like, it's so and then we all just start laughing, but the fight really does end. But it's like so sarcastic because they know they disagree, but they're like, oh, okay. You win. Well, it's like you gotta look at what argument are you trying to win here? I mean, one of the thing one of the tools, like Brendan and I never argued. We didn't have one argument in eight years. And even when we broke up and everyone's like, that's weird. And I'm like, what if that wasn't I'm like, what if that wasn't weird? And there was one time I was we live across the road from the beach, and I was really annoyed at him. I don't even remember why I was annoyed at him, but I went to the beach and then I was talking to my friend Gary Douglas who I work with in the States. And he said to me, you need to go home and make everything about him. That is the last thing I wanted to do. Wanted everything to be about me. But I went, you know what? I've been using these tools with access consciousness, which is what I work with for years and they work. So I walked back in the house, and I just started making everything about him. Like, everything about him. And within ten minutes, he's like, honey, do you want me to get you a drink? What can I make you for dinner tonight? Like, what? And I was sitting there going, oh my god. This works. But I could have, like, that was scenario one which I chose. I could have walked back in with this energy of separation. And then subtext was, I need you to make everything about me, and he's sitting there wondering, what the hell did they do wrong in the first place anyway and create that that anxiety rather than to me that first scenario or what I what I chose It makes you know, like Jared was saying, it's like, you can't even remember what you're asking about. It makes it meaningless. It's like, it doesn't mean anything. Like, is it really that important to you? Or is that creation shit more important and prevalent? Like what can you create from what can you create from that? It's about being the bigger It's about being bigger person. What if you're in relationship where you feel like you're always doing that though and you don't feel like the other person is? Then I would ask relationship. Are you sure you want one? Right. Right. Mhmm. Yeah. Nice little plug there. I want to go back just I wanna go back just for a second just to, like, just to make this about me and Jared her a second. When was there a time that was there a time where I ever tried to change you that you resented? I love this live on podcast. Here we go, Elliot. That's a great question. We're very open about our relationship. I would say probably the most one I can think of most right now is my sports the sports part of my life that you haven't really interacted with. Now that we moved back to the East Coast and I'm with my friends and I'm playing more sports with them and playing whether it be golf or just like going to play pickup basketball or softball. I think it's it's very obvious how annoying it is to you because it's like, hey, I'm gonna do this and and it's less time with you even though we spend so much time together. I would say, I can tell that it's not something you want me to change, but it's also like something you wouldn't hate if I stopped doing. And it's very noticeable, like, your attitude towards it. So I guess that would be something that's obey, this is what I love. It's what I love It's what I love doing. Like, I'm going to continue doing it. Yeah. But I don't get annoyed when you do I don't get annoyed when you're doing it. I think I get annoyed by like, you make it seem like a need and not a want. It is a need. It's a hundred percent a need. I'm sorry. As we talked about the Man cave and my in this case, the man cave playing sports, is very much a necessity in relationship to make me happy, which contributes to our relationship, and the whole thing just gets better. Well, then in that case, you have to go and do those things and then you come back, but then you don't go into the man cave. Then you have to spend more time with me. I spend plenty of time. Let's move on, Simone, I have a question for you. Cause because No. No. No. Me and ask me the question. I know. But honestly, we've talked so much about us in our relationship. I wanna talk about people that are not in relationship right now. Okay. Not just who are trying to find dating, but, you know, Simone and I I'm not gonna say that you're hung up on your ex. One of my point is I wanna talk about advice that you have for people out there. That are having difficulty being single in today's world and possibly, you know, it's such a hard world to date in right now. And there's so many people that are like, hey, I really like you. I just don't know if I wanna be in a relationship, which is totally fine, but it's like, I don't know if you could just talk about that aspect of of dating. Yeah. You probably went what I'm gonna say, but my point of view is if you're not in a relationship, you don't want one. You actually create your whole life. You create the way it shows up. Like, you if you have money, you created money. If you have no money, you created no money. You're in a relationship, you created that. I have had so many you know, dealt with so many different, you know, women, etcetera. Women are the main ones who go, I would like a relationship that I've spoken to, but I'm like, do you really? Like, I mean, when I broke up, it's like and I'm definitely not hung up on my ex. It's like, I'm so grateful that we're not together anymore, and we talk about it, but we're really good friends. We work together. It's like we still have investments together. And when I looked at it, when we broke up, I went, oh, do I have actually wanna be in I wasn't quite sure. So what I did for me because I it's in I was in, you know, self quarantine, you know, lockdown, that whole thing. So you have a lot of on your hands. So I actually wrote down, like, in an Excel spreadsheet, these columns and I wrote down because so many people put them together and they don't have to be together business, money, body, and geographical. And I wrote down all those topics and they start to just throughout my day, I would write down what I liked about all those things or what I desired to ask for because I realized there's aspects of relationship that I really enjoy. Like I love that, you know, cooking dinner in the kitchen, glass of wine, music playing, like that interaction engagement, talking about what we're creating, etcetera, But I have, like, one of my best mates is this gay guy married that lives not far from me who I get so much of that from, but I don't have sex with him. And it's like, so and I looked at my house, and I mean, do I actually wanna share this house with someone again? Not at in this moment. And I was like, okay. So then what do I want with sex? And then write down what I'd like with that. And started to look at it. So I think if you, you need to get really clear on what it is you So I think if you you need to get really clear on what it is you desire. Because do you wanna have kids? Do you wanna get married? Do you wanna, you know, like, do you wanna love that one that you made up with once a week? I love sleeping in a bed with someone whose contribution. Like, it's I love that that snuggle and that whole thing, but I also love being in my bed on my own and completely starfishing the bed. You know? It's like, like, taking up all the room. So and and that's why, like, if you get clear for you, then you can request what it is that you desire. And you need to I what's that? I don't know if I can agree with the whole if you wanna be relationship, you would be in a RelationshipsPodcastsSociety, like, there's something defining the right person to be in a relationship with. Yep. You just said the right person. So that's the that's the definition that changes it. Truly, there's a lot of people out there who wanna be in relation to. If you want a relationship, you'll create it. But when you go to the the right person, then what what judgments do you have of what that right person is? Like, you know, the movie George Clooney was in it. God. It's it's while ago. And there's two else. Yeah. Give us more context. I love this guy. We love this stuff, and they're really good at it. Why playing? They wanna play Oh, okay. Thanks. Okay. And the recipient What are we getting in the other box? And the young girl's going, you know, I wanna find someone who's got this, this, and this, and she's like like in the college, he's gone to the, you know, what he looks like, the car he drives, like, all this sort of stuff. And the woman who's a bit older goes, You know what? By the time you get to my age, you just hope he has a full head of hair and he makes you laugh. And I remember that's inappropriate because it's like if you go to the right person, what I would like you to break down is what if you decided is the right person. Do you have all these stipulations that you're never going to find. Like I said, you know, Brendan, when I looked at that, it's like all those things he had, you wouldn't have gone, my wish list is someone who's a Lebanese young them, who has a five year old kid who, you know, that's not gonna be your, quote unquote, wish list. But what I was asked for by that time, because I chose I definitely chose men in my life who were judgmental, you know, it wasn't I I had, you know, I've been there done that. And And what I was asking for is someone who was kind and caring and nurturing to show up. Yeah. I agree with you. Ashley is not gonna like this, but What do you even say? I even when we first started dating, like, when I confessed my feelings of Was I a hundred percent sure that you were quote the right person? Of course not. Yeah. Well, you apparently got sure within, like, two months. It wasn't so much of like, oh, I'm a hundred percent sure it wasn't so much of like, oh, I'm a hundred percent sure it was I love this girl. I wanna be with her. I don't want my life without her. So I'm gonna go full in and commit. Yeah. And was the best decision I made because then we realized this is what I want. But I think so many people to your points among, they're like, I'm looking for the right person and it's like, you really have to ask yourself what the right person is. Because I think people have this idea in their head that everything has to be perfect or there's going to be no hurdles to work because I think people have this idea and they're head that everything has to be perfect or there's gonna be no hurdles to work through. And it's like, that's just not a RelationshipsPodcastsSociety. And -- Right. -- and it's it's relationships can be messy and they can be difficult, and they'll be stressful, and there's gonna be fights sometimes. And it really just depends on what, you know, pros and cons you weigh, and it's interesting that you brought up that movie up in the air because this is a quote that I always go back to specifically in that movie. George Clooney is talking to Danny McBride's character. Who's getting cold feet right before they get married and he's talking about am I making mistake? Do I wanna spend the rest of my life with someone? Like, I'm so confused. And George Clooney says, think about the happiest moments in your life. So the moments in your life, you wouldn't trade for anything in the world. Were you alone? And he's like, no. And he's like, oh, I think kinda answered your own question then. Yeah. Right. And, like, I think about these moments and most of the time, my life, like, specific with Ashley and I. It's not so much the moment itself rather than the person I spent it with. And so that was something I also thought of a lot while, you know, us committing to, you know, a relationship that we ultimately knew was gonna end marriage was the idea that I there's always gonna be doubt, but that's just part of life. Mhmm. I wanted to I would love to just I love what Jared just said, and I wanna piggyback off of it off of it because I do think it's what your it's what both of you guys are saying. Right? Smauna like you have to be clear on what you want. And if commitment is what you want, love is a choice. It's a decision. You decide to commit to that person because there is no, like, one person that's gonna check all the boxes. And I read I recently am like, you know, still going through a break up somewhat. And I read this quote that was so kind of touches on the doubt you were saying, Jared, but it was so profound for me. It was in this book called even cowgirls GETIT the blue. And it basically was saying, like, when desire meets fate. Right? Like, when something you really want meets fate, that create success, like something you really wanted to happen and then fate brought brought it to you that successful. But then the the line after it says, but success shouldn't be the absolute in life. And then it's the last line that kills me. Success can eliminate as many options as failure. And so if what you want is like fate, right, and you get this thing you really want, it's like, you're always that little sliver of doubt is what you're saying. It's like, you never know what life could have been. You know what I mean? Yeah. Everybody always thinks it's a grass greener. Right. Everyone thinks the grass is greener because they're married. I'm single. You know, I I'm like, I really wanna be in a relationship. Maybe I need to be more clear with what want, but, like, I I am totally, like, in accordance with that, like, no one's gonna be perfect. You know, but there's certain things that, like, I know will make me happy and won't. But I do want you to talk about because you talk about in your books, Simone. This is like a great segue. Is that a lot of people live for the happily ever after, and maybe there's a little bit of that that lived in me. I think I like had this fantasy of what love is and what love looked like a couple years ago. But I think a lot of us live for the happily ever after, and you write in your book that it creates misery now. So why does that create misery searching for your happily ever after? And can I jump in for one second for you go into that because I just wanna bounce off a point that you made Naz that I think is very interesting because I completely agree with you like this idea of when desire meets fate that creates success? And I completely agree. But I think some people believe that, oh, once that success is made, it's over. It's like, no, no, no, no, no, no, success is not mean that it's going to be sustainable. Like, that's at the point in the relationship I find when you have to make the choice of commitment and continue to make that choice and it's not like once you make the choice it's over or when fate meets desire it's over. That's truly just the beginning. And -- Yeah. -- that was the one I wanna make, but now someone I wanna hear you. So you you much want to say, like, what I was gonna say in a way. It's like because it's like that that moment that you say that that you've got success and then you go, oh, I've got the fairytale you just you start destroying the than because you start maintaining it or you've got the answer or you've got it right again rather than what if every day you woke up and you were in question of what next? So you don't assume that it's like, okay. So let's, you know, let's put a deposit on the rocking chairs so that we can be, you know, rocking out on the So let's you know, let's put a deposit on the rocking chair so that we can be, you know, rocking out on the brand or when we're a Yeah. It's like, oh, you're just gonna be in question. It's like, what next what next, what next? Like, at one stage, you know, before twenty twenty, I was traveling a lot, like, for the last seventeen years. And at one stage, I said, I was talking in in my relationship about I I think I wanna go live in Europe for while and base myself there, but it wasn't that we were gonna break up. But Brennan had a kid. So we were like, okay. Let's talk about it. Like, you know, and I was like, you can come over during the holidays and and etcetera. And I didn't end up doing it, but I did spend a lot of time there. So but it it wasn't me holding back what I wanted to choose based on now I'm in a relationship and that we have to have this house and we have to have this. It's like don't go to the conclusion of what your relationship is. And I'm gonna say most relationships that end, they started being maintained, not created. I know from myself, you know, historically, that's definitely what happened. You sort of you end up just being in this this you know, people call it right And it's like, to me, it it looked okay. It wasn't bad, but it definitely was maintenance. Like, you know, we brought this like land on the beach. We started meeting meeting with this architect. It was a beautiful spot. We were gonna build the perfect house in the perfect neighborhood and have this perfect, you know, relationship, but what we realized was that's not what either of us actually wanted. We were just doing the next step that I'm gonna say this reality projected you that you should do. And both of us went, I didn't think this is what we wanna do. And that's actually when we ended that relationship is going okay. We're maintaining. We're not creating. I think that's Yeah. There's a quote by Albert Einstein that says once you stop learning, you you start once you stop learning, you start dying, and I feel like that is something that you could use towards a relationship. Because once you stop creating and you start maintaining, that's when the relationship starts back. And I love it. An example of it. Just like, just like an example, like you can even, I'm just saying that like when, what is just like just like an example. Like, you can even give Why? You think we're maintaining know. I'm just saying that, like, when what is it that you say? Yes. Please, How many people's sex how many people sex lights, and I hear this a lot in the seminars that go to once they've been together for a while, their sex life becomes something that's more a maintenance rather than a creation. Either the same same same time amount of times they have sex or it's like the same way they have sex or something like that. And it's like, what if sex was something that was always creative? And I'm not saying, like and I'm like, basic vanilla style sex is also great, but what if you actually were in question with it? Right. And I think I I think that's the key to life, that's tequila life. Right? It's like bigger than relationships. Can we approach every day create our own happiness with, like, this child like curiosity. Like, not when are we gonna get this house? And when is this guy gonna ask me out? And is he gonna marry me? It's just, like, today? Am I happy? What's gonna happen? This is so cool. Like, I read this quote one time where someone was like, life is just one big unfurling mystery. And the less I think it's just it sums everything up that you're trying to say. The less we try and control how it's supposed to look. And what's supposed to happen. Like, if you're married to someone and they wanna move to Europe, like, do you need a breakup or is it like oh, I'm just letting this person I love do what they want. That's an extreme to some people, I think, to us three. That's a little for us a moment. I don't want my person moving to Europe in the middle of, like, our marriage, but it's like, cute in Wyoming. Exactly. I'd move to Montana, Wyoming. But I think that's what you're saying. It's like, what if we made a choice to create happiness every day with that person that I I think what I have found in my recent experience and I'm hopeful that one day it won't is that I am very much ready and excited and I'm clear that I want to create with someone. But I think I've meet I'm meeting older men that necessarily don't wanna change or maybe don't wanna create. And I think it's hard because I think in relationships, it's a dance and it's what Jared was saying. Like, ego on both sides, not just them. Obviously, I've contributed to, like, the end of something as well. But it's, like, It's hard when you're super willing to, like, dance and play and create and someone like is like, this is who I am and they don't necessarily wanna create. You know, I just said that's really great that you said I contributed to the end of something as well. Do you know how few people acknowledge GETIT takes to create a relationship, and it takes to to break it up. Even if one of them was the one that initiated it, you still contributed to the end of it. So That's refreshing. Thank you. Thank you. Good job, Mass. Thank you. Thank you. I'm very self aware of all my traumas and inadequacies? And are you also aware of the greatnesses of you? I am, but I don't I don't think I've, like, fully grown into them and, like, believed to them and, like, projected. That's what I was thought. Do you know what mean? It's, like, I know my words. I know my words. Am I behaving? Like, I really know my words sometimes. What Maybe sometimes I'm not that. But it's hard. I think it's it's really I think what you said before is really gray and hazy for me because when I look at my last relationship, I'm like, I kinda came in guns of blazing. It was like my first RelationshipsPodcastsSociety wanna say guns of blazing, but I was like, you should probably not smoke because that's something that's like not healthy for you and for just people long term. You know what I mean? And now I like, if I entered another relationship, I didn't say it like that actually. I was just like, around me, would you mind not is what I said? But was that do you think that was me trying to control and change? Like, I think you just just You just listed, though, because you said around me. So that's not telling them not to. There was a guy that I was seeing for a while in Melbourne. And But I but I kind of met then that opened the conversation. And I was like, this is not my preference long term. And then it was like, well, this is an addiction. If I stop for a year and I start again next year, are we gonna be together? And that was when I had to look in the mirror. Right. And I was like, what it what does that mean? Do what I I don't know. You know? So so you're not you're not trying to work it out before you're there. Because that's also going into the conclusion that, oh, if they give up, they might start in a year. So you've always on this, like, know, you're walking on egg shows rather than like, you know what? Today is a great day. Yeah. But I don't think any of us think in today terms. I think most of all was women think good. Is I know, but how do you do know, but how do you do that if you're just one and the other person doesn't want one? Here's a key tool and this is something I really worked at was something that we do talk about in our book and it's called five it's the five elements of intimacy. Okay? And because most people are looking for this intimacy in another. To me, you've gotta have this with yourself before you can fully have this with somebody else. And the five elements of intimacy would be gratitude. So great great being grateful for yourself, allowance, trust, honor and vulnerability. And if you can be those five elements of intimacy with you, and what I did because, you know, that o gained me. It's like I wrote them on a little post at notes and had them on the mirror in my bathroom. And every day, I would look at it. And I would sort of like had this energy of destroying and uncreating anywhere that I was in judgment of myself that I wasn't willing to be those five elements of intimacy, of gratitude, trust, allowance, vulnerability, and honor. And once I can be be that with me, then you can include somebody else in your life that you can have that with them. But you can't like, to me, it's like, if you're looking for that in another, then you've already started this, like, downfall of something that is not gonna create something greater. And to me, like I said right at the beginning, if you it's not right or wrong to be in a relationship or be single, it both is just a choice. But if you're gonna choose a relationship, make it great. Like, make it awesome. What does allowance mean within -- Oh, Okay, so allowance, like how many times did you judge yourself So allowance, like, how many times did you judge yourself today rather than being an allowance? It's like, you know what? Whoops. Like, I always say it's a good thing I'm cute because sometimes I'm not very smart. It's like, maybe you you throw something and you're like, okay. You know, but what if you're an allowance of yourself and you didn't judge yourself? Mhmm. That's, like, some high level of been lay in mid shit there. That's like Peyote with Matthew McConaughey and Joshua Tree. Like most people I don't think can ever do that. Well, can ever do what? Not judge yourself. Yeah. I don't really judge myself. No. Milasas See what I'm doing, Ashley. It's wild. It's wild. But most humans I guess sometimes I do. Like sometimes I'm like, I'm dumb. I think that's probably like my biggest critique of my self is just like how I'm very better articulating, like, how I 40. Like, I'm I'm actually good at explaining how I'm 40, but, like, I have points that I'd like to make that I can't articulate, and I think that's the one thing that I get on myself lot. Yeah. And you're being a little too hard on yourself because you've been on television and millions of people relate to you and you have, like, multiple podcasts. So clearly, you've articulated in some incredible way. You articulate it pretty well there. Maybe you don't articulate it as like a news anchor that you look up to on television, but why would you want it as so much more articulate. He's so good at it. Very even part. Really? Yeah. I really don't. But that's good. That's nice to hear. But anyway, yeah, I don't really judge myself too hard. Good thing you're cute because you're not that smart. No. Oh, I tell myself that nigga. Jared doesn't think he's that cute, which is a whole big wish big issue. Let's move on, please. I love God. Aren't they the best? No. No. No. Gotta note at that. Alright. Anyway, I have question for you some moment before we wrap up. Do you GETIT. You are very handsome. Well, thank you so much. That is the question I was gonna ask. Do you think I'm cute? Simone, do you believe in soulmates? No. She definitely does that. I figured I'm kind of teeing that up for you. Yeah. No. It's Jared doesn't really been solving the crime. III mean, I don't know. I think I'm quite a bit older than all of you guys as well. And I I've had some amazing, like, connections and and interactions with people. And I continue to I don't feel like it's stop. Mhmm. So I if I looked at one person early on that was soul mate -- Yeah. -- no, I don't. I think there's so many people that you can engage with and interact with and and and create so much around the world. Like, I look at nature a lot. I use that as an analogy and there's I mean, there's very few animals that just have one person. It's like they But there are What's that? But there are some officers and penguins. Oh, yeah. The booj is really hard. The booj does. Like, we're not we're not penguins. Like, we're not. Oh, I want my Bougainville I want my boogin gilly pangolin. I was just reading about the ones in Simon Town, and he's not that boogoo. Then I for it. And it's like so I think I'm I'm pro choice. If you wanna find someone that is, you know, you're with for the rest of your life, then that's awesome. And it's like, for me, that personally never really worked. It's like and I like I said, I'm so grateful for the different relationships that I've chosen. I'm grateful for where I am right now too. But I become more of me. Wait as somebody who's appreciated multiple relationships, but isn't in As somebody who's appreciated multiple RelationshipsPodcastsSociety isn't in one now? Do you ever get, like, really nostalgic towards your old relationships and, like, almost brainwashed yourself into thinking that you're No. I don't. And I actually get asked that question a lot. No. And I'm actually friends with the majority of my exes, like, because I like them. You know? That's originally Why do you know when it's time how do you know when and if you can be friends with the Naz? Well, I think it again, it takes two people. Like, one of the things that and it's a great tool. One of the things that I did with Brandon was we went, okay, let's write down three things that we're asking of each other, like, as we're breaking the relationship up. And I thought originally, I was like, okay, three things. It's like who gets the house, who gets that, who gets the you know, I was looking at things, and then I I took some space for myself, and I looked at it, I went, oh, My first top of the list is his friendship because I I like him. I've always liked him. So but we weren't creating this great like, love, I'm gonna say, relationship anymore. And then when he looked at his list and we came together and we both sat there on the top of his list was friendship too. So I think it takes two people to say yes to that friendship. Well, my question to that is is Brent I'm sorry. Brendan or Brandon? Brendan. Brendan. Is Brendan dating someone else? Yeah. He's actually dating someone who was mutual friend of ours. He's living in America now too. And is she a Okay. With you guys being friends? Not to your question. I feel like it's also up to that I think it's also up to that point. Yes. It is a good question. And we all we actually all work together as well. And I remember at one stage, we were in close to Rec Room. We're at this, you know, result we had this big conference on. And we had this thing like Brandon and I because we were a lot of people people know us too within what we do. So a lot of people were like looking at us and watching the break up. I felt like we broke up on social media. Or on TB rather than just in our own world. And so we had this thing where we we would text each other. And like a safety word, say that sort of thing like you're okay. Are you doing okay? Because so many people had projections of what we should be doing or not be doing. and at one stage, I remember he texted me and we're this is like a hundred and fifty people there. And he said, let's meet outside. And we went and chatted and I said, Hey, I don't think it's We went and chatted. And I said, hey, I don't think it's me. That's got something going on. think it's Meghan, your girlfriend. I think you need to ask her if she's I think you need to ask her if she's okay because so many people had this point of view that we should be together. We didn't. That they did. Like and I would have to talk to them. So it was, I think, really keeping that conversation going and being aware of what's popping up and going, okay, are you okay? Are you okay? Is everything okay? Now I would say that we're definitely okay. I mean, I'm friends with her. He's with her. So yeah. We're but it it hasn't been we we were saying we should write a second book called breaking up is easy ish because you can make it easy, but there's definitely some moments that are really rocky and very vulnerable Like I remember, we took we came home. We were we were overseas and came home. And we were breaking up. And Brennan said, okay. Let's grant the brander. We grabbed a bottle of wine, two and went let's grab the brander, and let's just put everything on the table. Like, what's up? Between each other. And we were literally, like, willing to go to World War three to say everything. And we sat there, drank this bottle of wine, and we had one of the best conversations where we've had because we're both willing to go, okay, this piece about you, this piece about you, da da da. Okay. Now what are we gonna do? What are we gonna choose? Because it wasn't an easy break. I mean, I don't know how marriage is break up when you're financially so connected. And if you don't like each other, it's like, oh my goodness. The poor accountant, it's like a nightmare. Like, we're still some things that we we kept together so that we could have the wealth creation and yet at the right moment, change it, which we're doing now because it's the end of the financial year in Australia. So we're looking at it, like, what what's greater for both of us, not like this, you know, dusted off and just leave, you know. So which is I I think it's very text encouraged to to look at a breakup like that. It takes two people to to walk that. Absolutely. And I definitely did the, you know, I'm taking the house because he was the one who initiated the breakup. And I did that that girl, trauma, drama, you know, you know, being angry and all that sort of thing. And then I literally we were away in Italy because we're working there and there's a whole lot of things going on. I'm so angry at him. And I went, god, this is taking this is, like, hurting me and my body. Like, it was taking so much energy to be that angry that at one point, I I went and spoke to him and I went, hey, do you wanna just go have lunch together? Like, can just chat? And he was like, I would love that. And it was just because I'm like, I'm not I don't hate you. It's like, I actually like you, so So how can we look at this different? And I think everyone really needs to look at whether you're creating relationship, breaking up, single, whatever it is, want. And you're not less than that's very much like if a relationship breaks up, it doesn't mean that you're less than because you're not, it's like you're far greater than what you're willing to acknowledge. I mean, you know, I mean, Ashley was saying that, you know, that she's willing to look at this part, but if you're willing to have a look at the greatnesses that you have and what if that was what we could choose? Yes. Amen. Yes. Ma'am wait, Simone, how do you say your last name? Oh, Millicent. Okay. Okay. All right. Y'all that was Simone Melissas and she's the author of relationship. Are you the one? Where can they find the book on it? Yeah, it's A good relationship. Are you sure you want one and yet you can find on Amazon. Yeah. And where else can people? Well, Actually there's no other Simone Melissa's in the world. So if you Google someone, it's like, apparently I got that name. So, and it's Simone, M I L a S a S. So you can find everything there. Okay. Amazing. Well, thank you so much for joining us today. That was really eye opening in ways and fun. That was great. It was great conversation and gloves. Lots of things. Cut out now. All right, bye bye. If you want to be the most interesting person at the cocktail party, well hop on over and listen to the brain candy podcast. Our award winning content will have you laughing while you're learning. We read all the best articles, books, and studies, and keep up with new TV shows, documentaries and pop culture. 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