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Hello and welcome to an episode of I

0:49

Weigh with Jameela Jamil, a podcast against

0:51

shame. This is a special Ask Me Anything where

0:54

I told you on social media that you're allowed

0:56

to ask me about anything you like and

1:00

I just thought that would be a nice way for us to connect

1:02

with each other. It is a terrible time right now

1:04

and everyone's being fucking awful

1:07

and anything that I can do to create

1:09

more community or connectivity feels

1:11

like something healthy that you

1:13

might like. And so a bunch

1:15

of you sent in loads of wonderful, wonderful

1:18

questions. Now some of those questions were

1:21

very specifically around mental

1:24

health conditions

1:26

or around psychiatry

1:28

needs, asking me things about

1:30

medication, etc. Those questions

1:33

I'm not going to answer today because I'm on my own

1:35

and I left school at 16. But

1:38

I will have an expert

1:40

coming on to the podcast soon who will be

1:42

able to answer those questions responsibly.

1:45

This is more me shooting the

1:47

shit with you about things that I think

1:49

and feel based on what I've learned on this podcast

1:51

or learned from you or learned in life or learned

1:54

from my many, many failures. I

1:56

want to give a disclaimer, this is not any kind of medical

1:58

advice and also we're not going to be...

1:59

veering too much towards that.

2:02

I think the most I ever get into it on this podcast

2:04

is to discuss my own personal experiences

2:07

with my mental health and EMDR

2:09

therapy, which is iMovement Descentitization

2:12

Reprocessing Therapy. But again,

2:14

please don't ever use me, or any

2:16

celebrity for that matter, as

2:19

a substitute

2:19

for actual proper mental

2:21

health care or guidance.

2:23

So let's just get into it.

2:42

So a question I got from loads

2:44

of people was around

2:46

what's happening in the Middle East right

2:48

now, and it's not specifically about my stance in the Middle

2:51

East, that's all on my Instagram. I can't

2:53

talk about it here because it's so easy for me to be clipped

2:55

and taken out of context when I'm speaking.

2:57

So I've put it all in

3:00

walls of words on my social media that

3:02

you can find that no one can take me

3:04

out of context because there are so many bad faith

3:06

arseholes on the internet. But a

3:08

lot of you are talking about the pressure

3:11

to say something or do something and be

3:13

effective. And a lot of you

3:15

are really struggling with the

3:19

way in which people are talking to each other. It's just so

3:21

vitriolic and violent and awful. And

3:23

so first and foremost, I want you to know that

3:25

the vast majority of questions were about

3:28

that. And so you're not alone

3:30

if you're feeling really overwhelmed, and if you're feeling

3:32

guilty for wanting

3:34

to take a moment here and there for yourself

3:37

and not knowing exactly what to do. There's

3:39

a lot of posturing going on online right

3:41

now with people who suddenly became experts

3:44

in the Middle East about three weeks ago, who'd

3:46

never spoken about it before and using

3:48

it as a kind of, I don't know, like weapon

3:50

to beat other people over the head with. There's a lot of posturing

3:53

for moral superiority and people

3:55

shaming other people and there's a lot

3:57

of hyper scrutinizing, all of which I think is very

3:59

unhappy. healthy because it only makes people

4:02

less likely to use their voice and we really

4:04

need people who can handle it to

4:06

use their voice. Now the reason I say can handle

4:08

it is because I most

4:11

controversially feel that some

4:13

people are

4:14

fragile right

4:16

now and

4:17

maybe those people don't have to feel

4:19

forced to speak out publicly about

4:22

one of the most upsetting

4:26

and intense subjects in the history of the world.

4:29

When it comes to what's happening in Israel and Palestine

4:31

whatever you say will incur some form

4:34

of vitriol and some form of

4:37

emotional violence from someone you can't please

4:39

everyone and so I

4:42

do worry that people

4:44

out there don't have a support system

4:46

or mental health access like

4:49

a mental health expert they can access or

4:52

they're not feeling very stable or well at the moment

4:54

maybe you're dealing with your own grief, your own

4:56

loss, your own trauma in your life right now

4:58

and there are actual public figures

5:00

with ginormous platforms who

5:03

are calling anyone who

5:05

feels overwhelmed right now weak and

5:08

I think that's really dangerous and irresponsible

5:10

of them because they're saying this while

5:12

they're sitting outside their massive house by their

5:15

pool where they have access to a therapist

5:17

anytime they want and they've got I know them they've

5:19

got big families and happy

5:21

relationships and they're generally in quite a

5:23

stable place right now. That is immense privilege

5:26

and so those of us who have the

5:28

privilege to do so yes we should do the

5:30

hard work of speaking out I am doing

5:32

that because I have that privilege but it's

5:35

okay if right now you are feeling overwhelmed.

5:37

I had a lot of people with disabilities and sickness

5:40

and neurodivergence messaging me saying

5:42

they can't handle all the vitriol

5:45

and they don't feel as though they are allowed

5:47

to find alternative ways

5:50

to be helpful it doesn't mean you have to check out all together

5:52

but you can donate or you can

5:54

raise awareness in other ways within your

5:56

private community you can educate

5:58

yourself you can educate your family. family members,

6:01

you can harass your reps to make

6:03

sure they call for the things that are important to

6:05

end all of this violence that we're seeing. You

6:08

don't just have to post an infographic

6:10

publicly. A lot of that doesn't really make a fucking

6:12

difference. It's important as

6:14

a start, but there's many things that all of

6:16

us have to be doing to follow up with that, to

6:19

actually have actions that take place

6:22

off our stories and off our grids.

6:24

So don't feel like you're less valuable if you're

6:26

someone who would prefer to be helpful privately.

6:29

That's okay. An example of one

6:31

of the messages I got is how to navigate

6:34

a chronic pain condition as well as making a

6:36

difference in the world. I'm barely paying bills

6:38

and sleeping, never mind activism, but

6:40

I want to contribute. Now that wasn't specifically

6:42

about this situation, but it kind

6:45

of spoke to something else I wanted to discuss

6:47

with you, which is that the

6:49

world is fucking unbelievable

6:52

right now and has been so. It feels like trying

6:54

to get out of the sea, you know, when you're trying to climb

6:56

right out of the sea and it's just wave upon wave

6:59

upon wave upon wave. And

7:02

we are made to feel as though we are supposed

7:04

to, like it is normal to be able to handle

7:07

seeing that much pain and that much hell on

7:09

the news all over social media,

7:12

all of the doom scrolling, and we're supposed

7:14

to survive a cost of living crisis and our

7:16

own physical health problems and our own mental

7:18

health issues and maybe our own increasing

7:20

neurodivergence, et cetera, seamlessly,

7:23

especially people who have been socialized as

7:26

female. And it feels

7:29

very important, especially as I am an

7:31

advocate who spends a huge part of my

7:33

life fighting for these causes to again,

7:35

remind you that you

7:37

are only human and you are

7:39

allowed to sometimes switch your phone

7:42

off and take a break. And it's not just

7:44

that you're allowed to, it's that

7:46

it's actually better in the long run

7:49

for being able to help other people to do so.

7:51

And I say this as someone who felt for the longest

7:53

time, like I'm not allowed to look away from

7:55

anything because as soon as I started speaking out about Diet

7:57

Cup, just suddenly everyone was like, Oh, you think you're an activist? speak

8:00

about this, speak about that. Speak about my issue

8:02

in my country that you don't know the history

8:04

of. Speak about this cause that I care about. And

8:07

I understand why people were doing it. And

8:09

because I understand, I really empathize

8:11

and I didn't wanna let anyone down. And I started

8:13

to cover everything all of the time. And I was watching

8:15

the news 24 hours a day in

8:18

between takes on set at my job

8:20

and in between trying to have, you know, time

8:24

looking after my family or my friends,

8:26

et cetera. And I just burnt out and

8:28

my health absolutely collapsed.

8:31

And my brain melted. And

8:33

for about a solid six months, I'd

8:36

say in 2020, I couldn't even think

8:38

straight. And then I wasn't really able to be

8:40

very helpful to anyone at all because I

8:42

hadn't paced myself. What's happening

8:45

right now in the Middle East is not going to be over four

8:47

years. What is happening in Sudan, Armenia,

8:49

Kashmir, in America, in the United

8:52

Kingdom, in Brazil, in Afghanistan, in

8:54

Iran, in Pakistan, like all

8:56

these countries around the world in which people are suffering,

9:00

it's not possible for us to fix it all at

9:02

once. And for us to never,

9:04

ever, ever take breaks. You have

9:06

to prepare for the marathon that

9:08

is this shit show. And especially

9:11

if you are dealing with chronic pain and

9:13

especially if you are dealing with stress

9:16

and an inability to pay your bills and

9:19

an inability to sleep. You are

9:21

no good to anyone if you are dead. You have

9:23

to protect yourself. And I think, again,

9:25

always comes from the most privileged people

9:28

who shame others for not doing that. And I know

9:30

those people, they're not spending 24 hours

9:32

doing this shit either. And they've got teams of people

9:35

who are researching and finding and creating infographics

9:38

and even posting for them. So don't listen

9:40

to anyone online. Follow your instincts. Remember,

9:43

the world has always been a shit show. Whatever

9:45

the media is now saying is the current

9:47

crisis in the zeitgeist, it doesn't

9:49

mean that any moment is more

9:52

important than another for you to make

9:54

sure that you survive. And

9:56

not to survive, but dare to live

9:59

any kind of... a stable and happy life. It

10:02

is something that all of us should want

10:04

for ourselves and I don't want

10:06

you to feel guilty if you need to

10:08

do make certain adjustments to

10:10

be able to live some sort of a sane

10:13

existence. I'm sorry if I've been rambling but

10:16

I just feel so passionately about this and

10:18

I speak from experience that the most helpful

10:20

I ever am is when I look after myself,

10:23

when I eat properly, when I sleep properly,

10:25

when I make sure that I take breaks

10:27

from looking into these fucking screens that are so

10:30

bad for our brains. It means that I'm

10:32

able to speak more carefully. When I'm sleep

10:34

deprived, I'm sloppy and I say things

10:37

callously and I make mistakes and I piss people

10:39

off. If I haven't slept properly or

10:41

eaten properly, I might be less aware

10:43

of what I'm posting. Maybe I'm going to be more

10:45

likely to post misinformation. Just

10:49

as I said about a million times the last

10:51

five minutes, please pace yourself and especially

10:54

if you are struggling with any kind of disability

10:56

or chronic illness, we need you

10:58

around

10:59

and

11:01

you deserve to look after yourself.

11:04

Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Okay,

11:07

so on to a very different question.

11:10

Someone asked me if I believe in ghosts and

11:12

I really love your range as an audience

11:15

that we can go

11:16

from very, very

11:19

specific types of questions to completely

11:21

surreal.

11:22

The answer to that question

11:24

is I really hope that

11:26

they're not real

11:28

but clearly I must believe in them seeing as I'm

11:31

so terrified. I don't

11:33

look in the mirror at night because I'm scared Bloody

11:36

Mary is going to be there and yes, I am in my

11:38

mid-30s. I am

11:41

terrified of being in the dark. I'm very

11:43

afraid of being on my

11:46

own in the house and I mean a clear sign

11:48

that I must believe and ghosts on some level. Is

11:50

there any hotel or

11:52

housing I have to stay in when I work on location?

11:55

The first thing I Google is if there have been any

11:57

reports that that place may be haunted. time,

12:01

I was asked to go and film in New

12:03

Mexico and they

12:05

wanted to put me up in this very fancy hotel

12:07

and I looked at pictures and I was like, there's something fucking

12:10

wrong with that place and I can just sense it,

12:12

I can feel it, it looks creepy and

12:14

it might be really bougie

12:17

and expensive but I don't like the look

12:19

of it and I googled it and

12:21

it's like one of the oldest mental

12:23

health psychiatric institutions in

12:26

America. As we know, psychiatric

12:29

institutions

12:29

now

12:31

are still sometimes quite brutal

12:33

places but nothing like they were hundreds of

12:35

years ago when we didn't know anything about mental health and

12:37

they used to torture patients. I

12:39

was like, if there are ever

12:41

any ghosts that I don't want to fuck

12:44

around with, it's ghosts that might be very angry

12:46

because they were treated very badly and

12:48

there were reports that people's sheets were

12:50

being ripped off them in the middle of the

12:52

night and there were ghosts in the mirror and people were

12:55

hiding their clothes and I was like, absolutely fucking

12:58

not. So I do

13:00

and I don't. I clearly do more

13:02

than I don't but I've never

13:04

seen anything and please

13:07

God, may I never see anything. I really

13:09

don't want it to be confirmed but my biggest fear

13:11

is that it will be confirmed.

13:15

I think it's so far that my boyfriend just played a

13:17

really important gig in his life that

13:20

was in the Hollywood Forever Cemetery

13:22

where all the movie stars are

13:24

buried and I didn't go.

13:27

All my friends, all of our friends went and

13:30

I normally go everywhere to support him but

13:32

I was like, if I see a little Victorian girl

13:35

standing behind a tree, I'm going

13:38

to shit myself and jump off

13:40

a balcony. So yeah, I

13:42

don't feel like I've come across very well right now

13:45

but there's something real about

13:47

me

13:48

that

13:49

no one should really have heard.

13:55

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Okay, next up we have...

15:59

how to get rid of imposter syndrome.

16:02

We all lack knowledge expertise and maybe in

16:04

my case also eloquence this person says,

16:06

although I highly doubt that, but they

16:08

have a fear of making mistakes and saying inaccurate

16:11

things. And so they want

16:13

to know how they

16:15

can get out of that. I've said this before on

16:17

a few ask me any things. And

16:20

it's I've also said it on my social media. I

16:23

have a very strained relationship with imposter

16:25

syndrome. I really just don't see what

16:27

the big deal is. I've

17:00

said it a lot of times, literally put myself in positions where

17:02

I am an imposter and my self esteem

17:04

has been so crushed by the world. I don't know if I'll

17:06

ever be like, I totally deserve this.

17:09

And so therefore I was like, if I can't achieve

17:11

a perfect mental attitude about myself,

17:14

then why don't I just take the importance out

17:16

of that feeling? And then it's very similar

17:18

to my body image stuff, right? So I can't,

17:21

I don't love my body. But if I could just

17:23

get out of hating my body, what if I could just be

17:25

neutral and not really think about my body at all?

17:28

So when it comes to imposter syndrome, you

17:30

know what, maybe I'm an imposter. Maybe I don't fully

17:32

deserve to be here. Maybe I'm not the most qualified

17:34

person who was ever

17:35

born to do this job. But

17:37

fuck it.

17:38

I'm here now. What am I going to do? Quit. I'm

17:41

going to rise to the occasion. I'm

17:43

going to figure it out. I'm going to learn on the

17:45

job. I'm going to do my fucking best. And if

17:48

I do fail, it's highly unlikely that I'm going

17:50

to die dependent on the job. And

17:52

so therefore the stakes aren't as high

17:55

if you don't put so much value

17:57

in the bruise of the ego of failing.

18:00

Failure is something that I consider to

18:03

just not be that big of a deal. All my best

18:05

learning has come from failure. All my best

18:07

stories come from my failures. All

18:09

of my funniest moments have been my failures.

18:12

I run towards failure and I think that's really

18:14

noble because it's no fun

18:16

in running at something that you always know you're going

18:19

to have guaranteed success at. I think it's really

18:21

cool when people run towards failure. And

18:23

so my analogy that I tend to use

18:25

for imposter syndrome is just that I

18:29

look at it as crashing a wedding. It's

18:31

like, well, I wasn't invited here. I'm not

18:33

supposed to be here, but I'm going to try and snog

18:35

someone and get some free cake before

18:37

I am thrown out. And that has been

18:40

my entire attitude towards this industry. Remember,

18:42

I never had acting lessons before I became an actor.

18:45

I'd never gone to drama school

18:47

before I became a TV host. I'd never done

18:49

radio before I did the radio. I am fucking

18:53

figuring out. In England, we

18:55

call those people a blagger. Maybe

18:57

the word that's closest to that in America

18:59

is hustler, but it's been

19:02

my attitude to life. It's

19:04

just I'll figure it out. And normally

19:06

we do. Specifically, people

19:09

who've been socialized as women have

19:11

been raised with this idea that we have

19:13

a very small amount of

19:16

things that we are going to be able to achieve in our lives.

19:18

And it's very difficult for us to be seen as

19:20

accomplished. And so therefore we should

19:22

be grateful with whatever little we

19:24

can gather in this life. We're not encouraged

19:27

to keep learning about ourselves.

19:29

We're kind of told that by about 25, you

19:32

know everything about yourself that you're ever going to know. That's

19:34

not true. At 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, people are always learning about

19:36

new skills and interests that they have.

19:42

And if you shut yourself

19:44

off to exploring those, then you

19:46

might never learn who you really are. There are so

19:49

many people who've been hugely successful

19:51

who didn't even find the thing that they were good

19:53

at until they were middle aged. And I

19:55

think that's amazing. I still don't know what

19:58

I'm going

19:58

to do for the rest of my life.

19:59

highly doubt is going to be me

20:02

in the entertainment

20:05

industry, I might go back to school,

20:07

I might train as an EMDR therapist,

20:10

I have loads of things I want to achieve and I refuse

20:12

to let society tell me what I can and

20:14

can't accomplish. And so when

20:17

it comes to my attitude to imposter syndrome,

20:20

it has really freed me because

20:22

I have decided

20:24

that I have no boundaries and barriers

20:26

in front of me, I'm just going to figure

20:29

it out, make a mess, get some

20:31

good stories, get some good experience from it

20:33

and prove to myself that I'm capable

20:36

of more than I thought. And so

20:38

I hope that's helpful, I hope that's

20:40

what you needed to hear today, you do

20:42

not owe anyone complete perfection

20:45

and it is not something that is expected of straight

20:47

white men and so the rest of

20:49

us are allowed to give ourselves a fucking

20:52

break, which by the way is especially hard

20:54

from an ethnic minority, especially if you're Asian

20:56

like I am, where your parents put so

20:58

much pressure on you to be perfect, you have to divorce

21:01

yourself from that, there is so much

21:03

fun in the unknown, there is

21:05

so much fun to be had when you take yourself by

21:07

surprise and so treat it like a

21:09

wedding that you've crashed, just fuck it, have as

21:11

much fun as you can, whoever has the most fun

21:14

wins. So another

21:16

question I received is what is an achievement

21:19

or other moment in your career that you are proudest

21:21

of and it doesn't just have to be in your career? I think

21:24

because I've spent most

21:26

of my time at my career for half

21:28

of my life, I'm going to talk

21:30

about that and I'd say it's actually this podcast,

21:32

this is my favourite thing I've ever done and the

21:36

thing that I'm proud of is

21:38

having put

21:40

myself out there, a bit like with

21:42

the imposter syndrome stuff I was talking about earlier,

21:46

who did I think I was to have a podcast,

21:48

who did I think I was to be able to get

21:51

very esteemed, clever guests on to talk

21:53

to me, but I did, I just thought

21:55

fuck it, I'm going to try and

21:58

I'm going to be willing to look silly and I'm

22:00

going to have to learn stuff in front of other people,

22:02

which means daring to show that I didn't have

22:04

all the answers. I'm going to improve

22:07

as a person in real time. You're

22:09

going to watch me become more humble

22:11

and hopefully a bit more informed. It's

22:14

been, God, like over three

22:16

and a half years now. I'm

22:18

so proud of the community that we have. I

22:21

love all of you guys. I learned

22:23

so much from you. I find so

22:25

many of my great guests via you. You

22:28

have expanded my world and I'm

22:31

proud of how much I've learned on this podcast. I'm

22:33

really thankful that so many of you have

22:35

stuck around from the start. There's

22:37

just so many of you who

22:39

are willing to learn with me and

22:41

who don't make me feel bad for what

22:44

I don't already know. I'm proud

22:46

of creating a safe space that doesn't make people

22:48

feel judged. I'm so sick of the fucking

22:50

shaming and judgment in this world. I

22:53

think it's such a dangerous, toxic way to

22:55

treat people. No one knows everything

22:57

about everything. I think

23:00

that when our culture started shaming

23:02

people who are still learning, that was

23:04

the beginning of the end of

23:06

civilization, in my opinion. When

23:08

we started to make people feel embarrassed for not having

23:10

all of the answers, that's

23:12

when I started to divorce myself

23:15

from a lot of social justice spaces and

23:17

just start to lean into mental health and being

23:19

a humanitarian. I think you

23:21

can sense that if you've been listening to this podcast

23:23

for a long time, that I'm not into

23:26

the division that I first came

23:28

up in in 2018 when I was a more spiky, outspoken

23:34

person. I've changed quite a lot. I

23:37

have decided to move away from

23:39

that judgy, preachy shit

23:41

that was being clicked and clapped

23:44

at post the Me Too

23:46

movement. I think that it's really

23:48

important to move with the same

23:51

grace towards others that you would hope to

23:53

have for yourself. That's been a big

23:55

learning journey after the way that I saw

23:57

everyone speak to each other during COVID. didn't

24:00

want to be a part of that. And so those are

24:02

things that I'm proud of. And

24:04

I love that you asked me that

24:06

because you're asking a woman to brag.

24:09

And I love it when women say a thing that

24:11

they're proud of. I think we shouldn't demonize

24:14

women being proud

24:16

of themselves. I think that we should

24:18

all encourage more people to,

24:21

especially women, to say

24:23

shamelessly something that they feel like

24:25

they did well. And I urge you to maybe

24:28

pause this episode for a second and write down something

24:30

that you're proud of about yourself. So

24:33

thank you to the person who asked me that question. This

24:35

podcast is my proudest achievement. So

24:37

the next one is quite a personal one where someone

24:39

said, how do you cope with having EDS?

24:42

That's Ehlers-Danlos syndrome, which is a

24:44

condition I have, which is caused by a lack

24:46

of enough collagen in my body. It

24:50

means that I struggle with my joints

24:52

because collagen is something that you need in every single cell.

24:55

So if you have a huge deficiency of it, it

24:57

makes your life so fucking hard.

24:59

And I have issues with bleeding

25:02

and I have issues with every organ

25:05

in my body and nothing works

25:07

at the pace it's supposed to and nothing heals

25:09

at the pace it's supposed to. And I'm always

25:11

falling over and I'm dysbraxic and I have

25:15

neurodivergence issues and

25:17

all of this is caused by

25:20

Ehlers-Danlos syndrome and it's a fucking

25:22

nightmare. So sometimes very often

25:24

I'd say people come onto

25:26

this podcast to ask

25:28

me about Ehlers-Danlos syndrome.

25:30

And we actually have an episode in which we

25:33

talk about Ehlers-Danlos syndrome and chronic health

25:35

issues that we did a few months ago

25:37

with Megan O'Rourke and it's an amazing listen

25:39

and I highly recommend it. She's so

25:42

fantastic and we really get into the

25:44

personal of that. But anyway, so

25:47

I just wanted to give context for anyone who doesn't know what EDS

25:49

means. So this person says, how do you cope with having EDS

25:52

and doing all the cunning stunts and coping

25:54

with a massive workload? Do you

25:56

have performance anxiety? And

25:59

so this person goes on to

26:01

tell me about all the things that they do. They are

26:03

in the entertainment industry but they also have to cope

26:05

with EDS which is ruining

26:08

their health and therefore ruining their life and

26:10

they want to know if I ever worry about my EDS

26:13

window of opportunity. This is a question I

26:15

get all the time and loads of you wrote

26:17

me this question today about how I balance

26:20

my life with Ehlers-Danlos syndrome and

26:22

I always think it's really important

26:24

for me to be very candid and responsible

26:26

with you about that which is that I can't

26:29

do it all. I cannot

26:32

do it all and I did try. I really

26:35

spent a solid part of the beginning of my

26:37

adulthood being like I'm not going to be held

26:39

back by this. I'm gonna prove

26:42

the doctor's wrong. I'm gonna be an example

26:44

for all other people with Ehlers-Danlos syndrome.

26:46

You know I'm like some sort of fucking superhero. I'm

26:49

gonna show them you can achieve all

26:51

your dreams and sure maybe you

26:53

can but I have chosen not

26:56

to anymore because it was fucking

26:58

killing me and so for the last like

27:00

four years I have been and I

27:03

think a lot of people went through this during the pandemic

27:05

where they were like why am I in a rat race?

27:08

Why am I killing who am I killing myself for?

27:10

For capitalism? Why am I

27:12

not seeing my friends more often? Why am I not

27:14

having more fun? I just live a

27:16

different type of lifestyle. I think that happened in a big

27:18

way for me where I was like I don't

27:20

think I want to push my

27:23

joints and my body and my kidneys

27:26

to this level. Being in the entertainment industry

27:28

and thriving in the entertainment industry means waking

27:30

up at 4 a.m. and going to

27:32

work and then coming back from work at like 7

27:34

p.m. and then going to

27:36

the gym because everyone has to be fucking

27:39

thin and toned in this industry and then going

27:41

to an event and then maybe getting about

27:44

five hours sleep which is very bad for

27:46

your health and then going back to work in the morning.

27:48

Now I could do that in little bursts and I'm so

27:50

grateful to have the opportunity to work in the entertainment

27:52

industry however there is

27:55

a certain level I can't

27:57

get to unless I'm willing to sell my whole

27:59

soul. unless I'm willing to give up every hour

28:01

of my day and abandon all my friends, abandon

28:04

my relationship, abandon my dogs most importantly

28:06

and abandon myself, abandon

28:08

my health. I would just have to throw everything

28:11

at it and not

28:14

to, you know, try and get too deep

28:17

but or to sound like Tahani. Oh

28:19

my god this is going to be so Tahani. But I've

28:21

met a lot of the world's most famous people

28:23

as Tahani would say, they're all her good

28:25

friends. And I

28:28

don't know any of them who are

28:30

very happy and they've got as much money

28:32

as you can imagine in a massive house

28:35

that they hang out mostly on their own because

28:38

they've lost touch with all their friends and family and they're

28:41

so famous that they can't really go anywhere privately

28:44

and their love life gets smashed all

28:46

over the world and people are always trying

28:48

to use them, invade them stuff and I

28:51

just think it's such a fucked reality and you can apply

28:53

this in different ways to industries that aren't

28:55

as unrelatable as mine, right? Like thriving

28:58

and getting to the very top of academia

29:01

or medicine or business. There's

29:03

so much sacrifice. And so if

29:05

that is your lifeblood,

29:07

like if that is like the thing that's in your DNA

29:10

that you feel the most alive when

29:12

you're doing it then you should do it and we need

29:14

people like you to go and fucking

29:17

sacrifice it for the

29:19

journey. I am

29:22

just personally not that up for the

29:24

journey anymore. I want to sell

29:26

my home to get a cheaper home so I can

29:28

do less work. I want to move to a cheaper area.

29:31

I would like to work less. I would like

29:33

to look after my body more. I'm

29:35

starting to think about old age and

29:37

as you get into your 30s in particular, you

29:39

start to really come into a time where how

29:42

you treat your body in the next like 20

29:44

years from between 30 and 50 is

29:47

really going to be a big determining

29:49

factor in what your old age is going

29:51

to look like and I want it to be happy. I

29:53

want to rest and I want to have social

29:56

time. I don't want to be someone

29:58

that strangers admire.

30:01

I just want to be someone who gets to

30:03

admire my own friends up close. And so I

30:06

know that's not the girl boss mentality

30:09

that I'm supposed to say publicly,

30:12

but I try to show how much I'm at

30:14

home resting with my dogs on my social media so

30:16

that people don't think I'm just constantly girl

30:18

bossing. But I'm

30:21

sad if it's ever made anyone who's not

30:23

very well feel like they're not doing enough. I can't

30:26

stress you enough that I really

30:29

have taken a big chill pill in the last four or five

30:31

years and slowed down. And that

30:34

I really want you to evaluate

30:36

if it's going to be worth it. If

30:38

an award in your hand or a certain

30:41

amount of money, everyone wants to be financially comfortable.

30:43

I'm not talking about that. But if excess

30:45

is worth it, is the big house in

30:48

the fancy area or the fancy bags

30:51

and cars is the staff and

30:53

the awards and the recognition from strangers

30:57

genuinely going to be worth it for you.

30:59

If you're thinking about the entertainment

31:01

industry, which is such a grueling, such

31:04

a grueling industry for people with chronic health conditions.

31:06

And if it is great and more power to you,

31:09

but if it might not be, then this

31:11

is your reminder to really consider,

31:13

you know, we're not our generation

31:15

isn't really programmed to

31:18

consider the long game. To look at

31:20

what happens at the end of the rainbow, we're always, you know,

31:23

thinking about the journey, but we never think about

31:25

the destination. And I've become

31:28

kind of obsessed at that destination. I think a

31:30

lot of people as I said, during, during COVID,

31:33

when people started to lose loved

31:35

ones or lose their health, they started thinking a lot

31:37

about like, what are my actual values

31:40

in life? Like if I died tomorrow from a

31:42

pandemic disease, would

31:44

I have lived my life as happily as possible, not

31:47

as impressively as possible, but as happily

31:49

as possible?

31:50

That is

31:52

a poignant question. And I

31:54

think that it's a healthy

31:57

question to ask yourself. It's a really, really, really

31:59

important question.

31:59

vital reminder,

32:03

you know, even though I know it's a bit stressful to think about

32:05

our mortality, sometimes there's a great

32:07

beauty in it because it forces you to check

32:09

in with yourself and be like, did I live well

32:11

today? Did I live well yesterday? Is what

32:14

I'm doing going to be optimal

32:17

for the most lulls and

32:19

cuddles and happiness

32:21

ever?

32:22

If that's what's important to you, that's what's important to me and

32:25

just not well enough to go

32:28

for all of the possible dreams in

32:30

the world and that's okay because my biggest

32:32

dream is being happy and somewhat

32:34

well, which is very difficult with a condition

32:37

like this. And again,

32:39

I feel like I feel a tiny bit of shame

32:41

saying all of this and being honest about it because I know

32:45

it's not the most inspiring answer,

32:47

but I find it inspiring.

32:49

I wish when I was younger and sick I'd

32:52

heard someone in a powerful

32:54

position say the same thing, say

32:56

that they've had a peak at the other side and

32:58

it's not going to

33:00

be good for me. I wish I'd known

33:03

and I think I would have had a happier and healthier

33:06

adulthood up until

33:08

now. I'm currently the happiest and healthiest

33:11

I've ever been, even though I know I had a bit of a health emergency

33:13

recently. That's just a fluke,

33:16

but generally I've been really well and

33:18

I attribute that to the fact that I've decided

33:20

to

33:21

get off the treadmill, get off, get out of the

33:23

rat race and

33:25

choose myself above a dream.

33:28

Hope that's helpful. Sorry.

33:31

Someone's asked me how to love your body

33:34

when you have chronic pain. My

33:36

body doesn't work like I want it to when I

33:38

do feel okay. This

33:41

kind of somewhat touches on the same

33:43

area of my experience with Ayla Stanlassen-Drome,

33:46

but it is a massive

33:48

struggle in all of our chat online about body

33:51

positivity. There's very little of it that

33:53

goes beyond accepting love handles

33:56

and stretch marks. Body

33:58

positivity is like real... body

34:00

acceptance and liberation

34:03

is also being able to accept that our

34:05

bodies are all doing different things and regardless

34:08

of what they look like on the outside it's

34:10

really hard to not feel like your body is truly

34:13

working against you to feel like it's your worst

34:15

enemy but i have

34:17

decided to really work

34:20

on that inner voice of mine that's like come

34:22

on fucking hell why are you swollen

34:25

why are you hurting why is my kidney not working

34:28

and you know i had so much rage and

34:31

jealousy of other people who had good health

34:33

like i used to get so mad when i would see other people

34:35

drink or take hard drugs which

34:38

you know i can't do because if i do i'll probably

34:40

fall over and die um and i'd

34:42

be like why would you take things that are bad for

34:44

why would you smoke why are you doing things that are bad

34:46

for you you're so lucky you have good health why are you

34:48

staying out all night you know why are you being

34:50

reckless why are you rock climbing i

34:53

used to get so bitter about everyone

34:55

and then i realized that i was becoming quite an ugly

34:57

person so i checked myself and

35:00

just thought how

35:02

would i wish to be spoken to if i was my

35:04

body what if i personified my body what

35:07

if i called my body steve i don't

35:09

know why i chose that name i just love that name i

35:11

don't know i have no reason for you

35:13

but i was like how should i treat

35:16

steve steve my

35:18

ride or die steve maybe doesn't

35:21

function perfectly but that's okay

35:23

steve's doing his fucking best no one

35:25

has

35:26

no one that

35:28

i know would ever be willing to go

35:30

through all the shit i've put it through the way

35:32

that my body does like the amount of work

35:34

my body has done when i made my body do stunts

35:37

for marvel i

35:38

can't believe i put my body through

35:40

that 30 fucking five

35:43

uh when no one should start doing stunts

35:45

for the first time

35:46

the amount of late nights out

35:48

and the dancing and the stupidest heels

35:51

and all of the terrible crazy

35:53

crap decisions i've made and the sleep that i didn't

35:56

get that i needed and all the times

35:58

that i've been at death's door or

36:00

with different illnesses or accidents,

36:02

and I got hit by a car, broke my back.

36:04

My body has always somehow just

36:07

about made it through. And so

36:09

am I in pain every day? Sure. Am I swollen

36:11

every night? Sure. Are there many things that

36:13

I can't do? Yes. But that

36:16

is not the fault of my body. My body that

36:18

I was born with is doing its best. And

36:20

it loves me so much that when I'm sleeping,

36:23

all it's doing is trying to heal whatever

36:25

it can. When you think about it like

36:27

that, you start to develop more empathy. You're like, oh,

36:30

that is my best friend. That's

36:32

the most loyal robin

36:35

to my Batman that I'll ever have. And

36:37

so now I look at it more as something that I want

36:39

to look after. I want to look after my best friend. It's

36:42

made me more thoughtful about what food I

36:44

put in it, what drink I put in it, how

36:46

good my sleep routine is. Am I really,

36:49

you know, my body does all this shit for me. What am I doing

36:51

for my body? So much of my anorexia

36:54

with me just punishing my body and starving

36:56

it and over-exercising it and talking

36:58

like shit to it. How awful. I

37:01

have so much making up to do with this

37:03

body. It heard everything I said, and

37:05

it watched everything that I did. And it

37:07

watched me be jealous of other people's bodies. And

37:09

I feel very embarrassed by that now. So I know what I'm

37:11

saying is a bit surreal. But

37:15

I find personifying things very

37:18

helpful for my brain. I have a very

37:20

literal brain. And so when

37:22

I do things like that, I'm

37:24

able to kind of logic my way through

37:26

it. And I hope that even if you are someone

37:29

with chronic pain, you can find

37:31

a bit of this philosophy helpful. Give

37:35

your body a break and know it's doing

37:37

its absolute best for you.

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We

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are hurtling towards the end of the year and that

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to be so happy and then you're supposed to

38:26

spend loads of time with your family and not everyone

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has a good relationship with their family, not everyone is

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lucky enough to not feel triggered and traumatized

38:33

by the people that they're related to. And

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then also there's this sense that we're supposed to evaluate

38:37

ourselves and evaluate our lives and

38:40

consider whether we made progress this year or

38:42

we fell behind. So much

38:44

going on. It's a lot. It really is a lot.

38:47

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38:49

by this. It's natural to feel sadness. It's natural

38:51

to feel anxiety. Whatever it is,

38:53

you're not alone. And so one

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thing I wonder is, is there a treat

38:58

we can give ourselves to make the next year

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a little bit easier? And one of those

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Lastly, a question I got again from

39:54

a lot of people, of course, because of my work around

39:56

diet culture and eating disorders, was

39:58

a lot of you asking me.

40:00

about my recovery journey. And

40:03

as I kind of said at the top of this, like

40:05

I don't want this to be your reference

40:07

for mental health, but I could just tell you about what personally

40:10

happened to me and then tell you that if you

40:12

think you might have any issues with orthorexia,

40:15

which is a kind of fear of food and

40:18

issues with and fixation on food and

40:20

restrictive eating and diets, or you

40:22

think you might have an eating disorder or

40:24

body image issues, I urge you to

40:27

seek out an expert, some

40:29

sort of mental health expert or any kind of clinic

40:31

that deals with eating disorders. As I

40:33

said before I tell you my story I'm going to quickly offer a trigger

40:35

warning which is that I'm going to talk

40:37

about body image issues and my

40:40

anorexia. So I had

40:42

anorexia for about 20 years from the age of

40:45

about 11 to 31 and I've been

40:47

in recovery ever since and I wasn't

40:50

starving myself that whole time but I

40:53

kind of would go between starving and binging

40:56

and then starving again and then over exercising

40:58

just a constant state of punishment and

41:01

this went on for well over a decade and in

41:03

the years in which I wasn't starving myself

41:05

I was still engaging

41:08

in very restrictive eating and my body

41:10

dysmorphia was still like at the forefront of

41:12

my brain and I was not only thinking

41:14

about food and only thinking about weight and only

41:17

hating myself constantly all of the

41:19

time and never just freely eating

41:21

any meal. I knew the calories of literally

41:24

every single thing I put in

41:26

my mouth. I knew what the calories of a hundred grams

41:29

of almost any food on the planet was and thank

41:31

God I have started

41:34

to divorce myself from that knowledge and have kind of forgotten

41:37

at large the calories of anything because

41:39

also that is just not a clear science

41:42

and that's not how we should be working out

41:44

what to eat in the day. When

41:50

I got to Los Angeles

41:52

I realised that I just couldn't live

41:55

like this anymore and I was you know I just

41:57

got on a job as an actress which I hadn't planned

41:59

on. I didn't really want to be on TV again because I thought

42:01

it was really bad for my body image and for my mental

42:03

health and it made me self-conscious

42:06

and women are just treated so appallingly when it

42:08

comes to our appearance. So I'd resisted

42:10

being on television again in my 30s knowing

42:12

what had done to me in my 20s. And so

42:15

I reluctantly re-entered

42:18

the industry and decided

42:20

that if I'm going to take this on I'm

42:22

going to have to be really

42:25

really really mindful of

42:28

recovery because this is

42:30

Hollywood, this is the hub,

42:32

this is the belly of the beast. This

42:34

is where so much of the evil that we

42:36

learn on social media comes from

42:39

about our bodies, about ageism,

42:41

about women and so I was like I

42:44

really need backup. So I did something called

42:46

EMDR therapy, eye movement reprocessing

42:49

and desensitization therapy to

42:51

deal with my feelings around food

42:54

and so I used EMDR to

42:56

and I want you to google it and look it up and see

42:58

if that's something that you would find interesting but

43:01

what it's really good for is breaking thought patterns.

43:03

So I was like one of the first things I can do is

43:06

break my thought pattern as to how important

43:09

my body shape is to my happiness.

43:12

Like can I break the pattern

43:14

of thought that thinness equates

43:16

value, that thinness equates

43:18

happiness, that thinness equates

43:20

being worthy of being loved and so I

43:22

really worked on that with my EMDR therapist

43:25

and that was very successful where I started to get to

43:27

a point of neutrality. You know as I was

43:29

sort of touching on earlier I don't really have body

43:31

positivity but I have been able to get to

43:33

a point where I'm just like it just doesn't matter, it doesn't

43:36

matter. It's not amazing, it's

43:38

not shit, it's just not important because

43:41

me and my body Steve are out here doing the

43:43

fucking best we can and

43:45

if it turns out that I'm not thin

43:48

enough or beautiful enough for this industry

43:50

I'll just leave. I can't

43:52

be bothered, I'm not going to suffer for this

43:54

anymore, I think I'm worthy

43:56

of love. It doesn't mean I think I'm the best

43:58

or the most beautiful. It's just that I know

44:01

that the thing that makes me worthy of love is

44:03

not on the outside of me. It is who

44:05

I am as a person and who I am as a person

44:07

has improved exponentially

44:09

for no longer being obsessed with food and calories

44:12

and my weight and my appearance because that all means

44:14

me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me. And

44:17

it made me a boring person. I was

44:20

a really rubbish lover. I

44:22

was a shit shack because I

44:24

had no energy and was so self-obsessed

44:27

because it is kind of self-obsession which doesn't

44:29

mean you should feel ashamed of it. That's what it's supposed

44:31

to be. It's an incredibly

44:34

pervasive mental

44:36

illness. But I just didn't

44:38

have time to learn anything. I didn't know

44:41

anything. I didn't know what was going on in other people's

44:43

lives. All I was thinking about was surviving

44:45

one meal to the next. How can I get out of eating

44:48

one meal to the next? And

44:50

so that was really helpful for me. I

44:52

also dealt with my issues around food because

44:54

for me, food was anything but

44:56

fuel. It was rebelling

44:59

against my parents or it was the

45:01

love of a parent because I had a parent who couldn't say

45:04

that they loved me but they would show me they loved me via

45:06

food. So food was also

45:09

love. Food was parenting.

45:12

Food was acceptance but also food

45:15

meant being fat and being

45:17

fat was unacceptable in my family

45:20

and in the world because I grew up during heroin and

45:22

cheek. So it was just a nightmare.

45:25

Everything I was eating just felt like I was always swallowing

45:27

a grenade of emotions rather than just

45:29

having a fucking sandwich. And

45:32

again, it didn't take long with the MDR to be able

45:34

to break those thought patterns to be able

45:37

to identify the trauma I had around

45:39

food and just get to a point, again,

45:41

not of positivity but of neutrality. When

45:44

I look at chicken, it's just chicken.

45:47

When I look at chocolate, it's just chocolate. And

45:49

I don't feel afraid of it. I haven't been

45:52

in like eight years which is insane

45:55

or maybe a bit less but I haven't overeaten

45:58

to excess. gone, oh

46:00

diet starts on Monday, I haven't starved myself before

46:03

a photo shoot in

46:04

a decade pretty much.

46:06

It's amazing. Just a place of neutrality.

46:10

I've said it a lot on this podcast before and

46:12

I talked about it with a few different guests

46:14

that sometimes the body positivity

46:17

movement has felt quite oppressive to a lot of us. It's

46:19

a very important and amazing movement and it

46:21

isn't for someone like me because I'm straight sized,

46:24

I'm slim and privileged. But for

46:26

a lot of people who even do live in bigger bodies

46:28

or bodies of disabilities, it's a lot

46:30

of pressure to be told in a world

46:33

that is telling you constantly to hate yourself,

46:35

you better love yourself and you better be the best at it and

46:38

you better think you are the hottest sexiest thing

46:40

ever. And then you feel like, oh great, well now there's

46:42

another thing I'm fucking failing at which is having perfect

46:44

confidence as well as not having the perfect

46:47

body I want it to have. I really

46:49

think that capitalism is a massive

46:51

part of that, of always setting these really unrealistic

46:54

ideals that we always feel like we're working towards

46:56

something. I'm just not about that. I

46:59

believe in finding ways to be proud

47:01

incrementally of myself or wherever I'm

47:04

at. And if I'm always at neutrality

47:07

around myself work as a person, around

47:09

my achievements at work or around my image,

47:12

then I will have beyond one as

47:14

far as I'm concerned. I hope I get

47:16

to a point of pride. I hope I get to a point

47:18

of bigging myself up. But when

47:20

it comes to certain things, I'm poisoned

47:23

and programmed by the whole of the

47:26

fucking media that's everywhere, including

47:29

at my fingertips on my phone. If

47:31

I can just stay at neutrality, that's fucking

47:33

great. And so if you can even get to neutrality,

47:37

we're smashing it. And I'm so

47:39

proud of you. But learning that it

47:41

is a lie, it is a sinful

47:43

lie that any of our

47:45

worth or anything that's important about us

47:48

is in our exterior or in our

47:50

perfection. Being able to divorce yourself from

47:52

that fallacy is true

47:55

liberation. And it's something that I work

47:57

really hard towards. EMDR

48:00

therapy as well as incrementally

48:03

just, you know, instead

48:05

of going from starving myself to just eating everything

48:07

in the world, just kind of incremental progress, bit

48:09

by bit, learning to eat a type

48:11

of food, like bread or something that I'd never

48:14

eaten before, and just have a little bit

48:16

and realise that the world doesn't stop turning, and

48:18

then, you know, gaining a bit of weight

48:20

and realising that, oh look, all my friends are still

48:23

friends with me. Oh look, people still

48:25

find me attractive. Oh look, I'm still able

48:27

to do a job. Oh

48:29

look, I feel okay today, I'm still surviving.

48:32

I'm not manically depressed, I'm able to get out of

48:34

bed. I kind of actually have a bit more energy,

48:36

and I had fun last night at dinner instead of dreading

48:39

it. And so just incremental

48:42

progress, everything in life, everything I try

48:44

to encourage you towards in this entire podcast,

48:47

there's just little bits of incremental progress. Incremental

48:50

progress towards food, incremental progress

48:52

towards your attitude towards yourself, or your attitude

48:54

towards your body, or your attitude towards the way that

48:56

you look. Be very careful as well,

48:59

the last thing I did that was I think very important is

49:01

being very, very mindful

49:03

of the media that I consume.

49:06

You know, my algorithm is just

49:08

a reflection of what I've already

49:10

shown an interest in. So if that's gonna

49:12

be really skinny models

49:15

who talk about weight loss all the time, and fitness experts,

49:17

that's all I'm gonna see, and then that's gonna destroy

49:20

and break my tiny fragile mind. So

49:23

about maybe in like 2017, 2016, 2017,

49:29

I, you know, when I first really got on Instagram

49:31

properly, I was like, okay, this is fucked.

49:33

I need to change my explore page. I

49:36

need my explore page to be dog and

49:39

funny animal videos, which is why my social media

49:41

is mostly funny animal videos. That is very

49:43

much on purpose, so I can help my algorithm as

49:45

well as help yours be mostly about funny dog

49:47

videos instead of fucking weight loss shit

49:49

that we're all bombarded with. And

49:52

I started following accounts of like old

49:54

Italian movie stars

49:57

who are women who had curvier bodies and

49:59

following people. and bigger bodies and following

50:02

people who had similar health

50:04

conditions to me or who had

50:07

similar belief systems or who fought for humanitarian

50:10

causes or who loved animals.

50:12

I just was so, so, so

50:14

mindful with what my feed looks like and

50:17

so I don't really follow a lot of models

50:19

and celebrities and the ones that I do are mostly

50:21

on mute, not because I have any kind of personal

50:23

problem with them, I really don't. But just

50:25

because I'm honest enough to say, ah,

50:28

looking at you triggers very bad

50:30

thoughts in my brain about me. I try

50:33

to be mindful about what I post on social media

50:35

so that doesn't make anyone else feel

50:38

any kind of a way and it doesn't make me feel bad.

50:40

I don't use filters because I don't want to hold myself

50:42

up to an insane beauty standard that doesn't

50:45

exist and is ruining all of our brains and ruining

50:47

the world. So curating

50:50

your feed is something that we refer to as self-defence

50:52

of the mind. It's important to learn self-defence

50:55

of the body but it is so almost as

50:57

important if not more important to learn self-defence

50:59

of your mind. If you're really, really,

51:02

really careful with what you're looking at, you actually might

51:04

have a fighting chance. Be careful of the magazines

51:06

you pick up and be careful of the

51:09

television that you're watching. Really,

51:11

really listen for the thoughts in your head

51:13

when you're consuming certain types of media and if

51:15

you find that anything is causing you shame,

51:17

even if you really like to admire that person

51:20

or you're a friend to that person at work but their holiday

51:22

pictures make you feel like shit. You're not a petty or small person

51:25

for wanting to look away. You can still

51:27

be nice to that person, respectful and friendly

51:29

but whatever you're looking at that makes

51:31

you feel like shit, stop looking at it. Even

51:34

if it's just for a while, stop looking at it. Try

51:36

to access some kind of therapy that might make

51:38

you find it easier to tolerate that sort

51:41

of material but please never force

51:43

yourself to do anything that

51:45

makes you feel shame and like shit

51:48

because life is too fucking short.

51:50

That kind of brings us back around just as

51:53

we close out to what I was talking about

51:55

at the beginning of this episode. I

51:58

want you to be mindful of the content that you

52:00

consume. If you are someone

52:02

who is traumatized

52:04

by seeing images of people covered in

52:06

blood and in explosions

52:09

and dead bodies, you are

52:11

not weak or bad for choosing

52:14

not to look at that. It doesn't mean you don't have to stay informed.

52:16

There are plenty of news articles that print the words

52:19

without the pictures. This shit

52:21

can really fuck you up and

52:23

it can bring back terrible memories of other things

52:25

that you have experienced. Our friends who've survived

52:28

other wars who are now seeing these images come up without

52:30

a sensitivity warning, who are

52:32

having panic attacks and nervous breakdowns over

52:34

the imagery that's all over the internet. Maybe

52:37

get offline for a bit and maybe just

52:39

read about it in the newspapers and

52:41

then find other ways to be helpful or

52:44

be very mindful of the accounts. Maybe mute a few

52:46

accounts who are posting explicit shit without

52:48

warning. Again, just think about

52:50

the long game. Think about what's good for you in the long

52:52

term and know that it means

52:55

that you will be happier, healthier

52:57

and more helpful person at the

52:59

end. I don't want you to be doom

53:01

scrolling all day. I don't want you to look at the news

53:04

all day. I don't want you to look at models

53:06

and people with unachievable lifestyles all day. I

53:08

want you to look at things that are just going to bring you some

53:11

peace and some joy and be actually

53:13

helpful to you and to the world. So

53:16

I hope this has been helpful. These are just some of the thoughts that

53:18

have been in my brain. Thank you so much for your questions.

53:20

There are more to get through. I'll do more episodes like this

53:22

if you don't absolutely fucking hate this one and

53:25

message me with any thoughts or

53:28

feelings you have about what I said and

53:30

I will see you next

53:32

week. I love you lots. Please look

53:34

after yourself.

53:41

Thank you.

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