0:00

If you've been enjoying this podcast where I

0:02

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0:04

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0:06

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0:22

leave a written review and it will be

0:25

a big favor for me and for my entire team. Thanks

0:27

for watching. Thanks for listening. I've

0:34

been using YNAB for like a

0:36

year and a half and trying to get a month

0:38

ahead in there, but I just can't seem to do

0:41

it and it doesn't make any sense to me. I

0:43

know it's probably, I know why it is because we're

0:45

spending too much money, but can't seem to fix that

0:47

quite right. When I talked to him about money, he

0:50

would just kind of blow up and I know

0:52

it's because of his, he's uncomfortable

0:55

with the whole money thing.

0:57

She has a business degree and she's

0:59

a spreadsheet whiz kid. I'm not saying

1:01

it's right that I just took the

1:04

easy route and let her handle everything,

1:06

but that's definitely what I did. I

1:08

want to be able to say, yeah, we

1:11

can do that. We can do that. We can

1:13

do that because I figure I make a good

1:15

living and I deserve it, but it's still above

1:18

our means a little bit. You know what? I go through

1:20

these things where I think somebody is

1:22

just siphoning money off my account.

1:25

It's just happening. Somebody else. Meet

1:32

Brad and Angie. They're both in their mid-50s.

1:35

They have six adult children between them. This

1:37

is a mixed family as this is both

1:39

their second marriage and they

1:41

are empty nesters who describe themselves as

1:43

excited for the next chapter in their

1:45

lives. They tell me that they're a

1:47

few years away from retiring and then

1:49

they want to travel full-time in an

1:51

RV and see the country. Now,

1:54

what you're going to hear in today's conversation is

1:56

a mismatch in the way that

1:59

the two see money and

2:01

I think most importantly you're going to hear this

2:03

fascinating discussion of

2:06

psychological and cultural values

2:08

around money. So

2:11

let's start the conversation with Brad and Angie.

2:17

I'm on my way to work and I stopped

2:19

at the gas station to put gas in and

2:21

my credit debit card whatever is declined and I

2:23

call Angie and I'm like what's

2:26

going on? You know how can we not have any

2:28

money in there and she said well we

2:30

had to use $900 for

2:33

this kind of an emergency. We were

2:35

at the hospital and the card

2:38

we had wasn't working or something so we had to put

2:40

it on this other card and so

2:42

now we didn't have that $900 in there so it

2:46

was like unexpected expenses.

2:48

Okay so you were at the gas station

2:50

and you tried to use your card and

2:52

it doesn't work so what'd you do? Well

2:55

there wasn't really anything I could do at the time I had to get

2:58

to work and so I had to have her

3:00

come and pick me up and drive me to work. What did that

3:02

feel like? That's not

3:04

so bad but I was on vacation once

3:06

with a bunch of guys you know we're

3:08

out to dinner and I go to use the

3:11

card and it's declined and I had to call

3:13

Angie you know back in

3:15

Wisconsin and say can you put some more

3:17

money on the card because I can't

3:19

pay for my own dinner. That's a little embarrassing

3:21

when it happens you know in

3:23

a situation like that but at

3:26

a gas station it's just me and her.

3:28

I could be embarrassed in front of Angie but it's a

3:30

little embarrassing in front of your

3:32

friends. Oh that was terrible. I've

3:34

been using YNAB for like a

3:37

year and a half and trying to get a month

3:39

ahead in there and I really

3:41

like the program but I just can't seem to

3:43

do it and it doesn't make any sense to me. I

3:45

know why it is because we're spending too much money but

3:48

I can't I can't seem to fix

3:50

that quite right. So I

3:53

was embarrassed and

3:55

I felt bad. When he was in Florida

3:58

with his friends That was worse

4:01

because it wasn't just the one time he had to call

4:03

me. He had to reach out to me

4:05

like three times and just didn't have any

4:07

cash. And I hate

4:10

that and I just don't know why. Can

4:12

I ask a question that I think we're

4:14

all wondering? Yeah. If you didn't have

4:16

any cash, how was he on vacation with his friends?

4:19

Well, that's a good question because I wanted him to

4:21

go. Right. Yeah,

4:24

that's a very good question. Well, anybody

4:27

got any answers? I think we had

4:30

money. I think it's just that we were trying

4:32

to keep money in

4:34

like a spend card

4:36

and then money in more

4:40

of like a buffer or like

4:43

a savings. So I think

4:45

she was having to dip from that

4:47

and put it into the spend account. Honestly,

4:50

I think it's more like I'm

4:53

the kind of person for

4:55

good or bad, probably bad that

4:57

says experiences matter. And I

4:59

tend to think we can, we'll

5:01

figure it out when he gets there. And

5:04

that's not good. He did figure

5:06

it out. He called you and you transferred money.

5:09

Yeah. But

5:11

I don't think I had enough to like just

5:13

make him stop worrying about it or stopping

5:15

a problem, but I just know that it does

5:18

happen where we dip down and it's not

5:20

comfortable when I wanted to do

5:23

this debt consolidation thing. This is when we

5:25

owed a lot of money on credit cards

5:27

and I wanted to do that. I

5:29

could feel the tension rising. And

5:32

so what did you say to him? I didn't

5:34

feel like we were going to be able to pay

5:36

off our debt the way it was.

5:38

And we needed to do something different. And

5:41

then it spiraled into why do we have

5:43

so much debt? Then I say,

5:45

because we had to pay for this and this and

5:47

this, it just kind of gets off track. So

5:49

you said, we're not going to be

5:52

able to pay. And he said, why do we have so much

5:54

debt? What was your answer to that? I

5:56

probably glossed over it. When

5:58

I talked to him about money. he would

6:00

just kind of blow up and

6:02

not yell at me, but just get

6:04

louder. And I know it's because of

6:07

his, he's uncomfortable with the

6:09

whole money thing. I used to,

6:11

um, feel like it was like everything was

6:13

kind of a surprise to me because I

6:15

wasn't involved in the, in the finances. It

6:17

just sort of came out of the blue. I

6:19

wasn't really involved. And so like, when she would tell

6:21

me we were hurting that month or

6:24

something, I would always be like, well, how can this be?

6:27

Mm-hmm. Now I'm a little

6:29

more involved with, with those things.

6:32

And I, I, I don't

6:34

try to put my head in the sand, I guess you could say. At

6:36

the time you went into debt consolidation, were

6:39

you aware that you were in debt?

6:43

Um, yeah, cause of school loans

6:45

and things like that. It wasn't what

6:47

I would consider severe. You know, when

6:49

you hear about people

6:51

with huge school loans and things like that,

6:53

we weren't like. Crazy

6:56

debt. How much debt was it? Uh,

6:58

it was, no, no, Angie, Angie, hold on a second.

7:00

I want to hear from Brad. I

7:02

don't remember actually. I

7:05

don't think we're irresponsible

7:07

or anything. We just need to figure out

7:09

why we're sometimes

7:12

surprised when bills come due. We both make

7:14

pretty good money and we shouldn't

7:16

be struggling.

7:18

I mean, honestly, if I could have done it by

7:21

myself, I probably would have

7:23

because I tend to try to

7:25

do that. And that's not good. There's

7:27

something, you know what? I go through these

7:29

things where I think somebody is

7:32

just siphoning money off my account.

7:34

It's just happening. Somebody else. But

7:37

what I'm struck by in those stories, it's

7:40

not that occasionally

7:43

there's some account, snafu and

7:45

one account runs out of money that

7:47

happens, right? It shouldn't happen, but it

7:49

happens occasionally. Okay, fine. What

7:51

I'm actually struck by is the different ways

7:53

that you talk about what happens, I've

7:57

become obsessed with these pivotal moments where people realize

7:59

something is real. really, really wrong

8:01

with their finances. I'm

8:03

obsessed with it because you could actually

8:05

go years without actually admitting

8:07

how bad things are. You've

8:10

heard it on this podcast. People will come

8:12

on here. I'll go through their

8:14

numbers with them and they will realize

8:16

they've been spending more than they make

8:18

for months. And I

8:20

realize it's not just with money where you

8:22

can deny how bad things are for a

8:24

long time. My wife is a personal

8:26

stylist. She tells me a story about one of her

8:28

clients who had just gotten a job at a law

8:31

firm and she was going on a flight in the

8:33

airport and she saw a very senior partner on the

8:35

same flight totally dressed up. Now

8:37

she herself was wearing old gym clothes

8:39

and she looked away. She didn't want

8:41

to be seen wearing those clothes and

8:43

she realized, oh my God, I really

8:45

need to up level my style. My

8:48

wife tells me that when this person landed,

8:51

she sent her a message saying,

8:53

I'm ready. These

8:55

pivotal moments are extremely

8:57

revealing. They tell you so

8:59

much about what gets a person to change.

9:03

We'll be right back. Let's

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link at www.drinklmnt.com. So

12:11

with Brad and Angie, I noticed

12:14

this pivotal moment of him being with

12:16

his friends on vacation and the credit

12:18

card not working. How embarrassing. The pattern so

12:20

far seems to be that Angie is

12:22

taking control and Brad is taking a back

12:24

seat. But I think it's actually a

12:26

lot more complicated than that. Would

12:29

you care to discuss it? Because I think it's actually

12:31

pretty interesting what happened in the past,

12:34

which might shine some light on where we are today.

12:37

Care to discuss Brad? Well,

12:41

of course, it's easier to just let someone

12:43

else handle everything. So that's kind

12:45

of what I was doing Angie. Angie

12:48

is way smarter as far as the

12:50

accounting goes and Look at Angie's face

12:53

right now. What's she doing? She

12:55

doesn't think she is, but I think she

12:57

is. She has a business

13:00

degree and she's a spreadsheet, you

13:03

know, whiz kid. I'm not saying it's right

13:05

that I just took the

13:07

easy route and let her handle everything. But that's

13:09

definitely what I did. I like to be the

13:12

one who knows things.

13:16

I don't like it when I don't know something. I

13:18

agree. It's hard for me to admit. Even

13:21

to yourself. Okay, I

13:24

appreciate the honesty. Okay. When

13:27

you did that, which happened over

13:29

like how many years did you do that for? Again,

13:32

look at Angie's face. I

13:36

mean, since we've been married. Okay, 10 years.

13:39

Yeah. You ever go on a boat, but like

13:41

a canoe or something like that? Yeah. All

13:44

right. Yeah. I'm an

13:46

outdoorsy guy. Oh, great. Okay. Well, then I'm already

13:48

outclassed because I don't even know the name of

13:50

the boat. I'm trying to describe, but the ones

13:53

with the oars. All right. So

13:55

you're on the two person kayak or

13:57

whatever and you got one person. rowing

14:02

And the other is just like chillin What's

14:04

the cost of that is the one of them in the back is doing

14:06

all the work? Yeah, and maybe you don't go

14:08

as far as you wanted to go Yeah,

14:11

maybe it's a lot harder on the one person rowing,

14:13

right? And maybe you go in circles

14:15

a lot That's

14:17

a good point Can

14:20

we go back to the part about how you

14:22

two interpreted the credit

14:25

debit card totally differently What's

14:28

your take what happens? Well

14:31

why it happens is because I don't have enough of

14:33

a buffer in the bank

14:35

account to Support that

14:37

kind of action. Why? Probably

14:41

because I Spend

14:45

more on the house and things

14:47

like that that I shouldn't why

14:51

Because I figure I make a good living and

14:53

I deserve it. Why do you deserve

14:55

it? Because I

14:57

spent a lot of time in My

15:02

earlier years Not having

15:04

things So as a

15:06

result now that you make money, I don't

15:09

walk around going I feel I deserve

15:11

this but I definitely feel like I

15:15

Do because now I Make

15:19

the good living and I want my children to

15:21

have things I'm

15:23

sorry, but I have to cut in here. Did you

15:25

hear that last sentence by Angie? That

15:27

was one of the most interesting

15:29

single sentences. I have ever heard

15:31

on this podcast in

15:33

one sentence It was full

15:35

of rationalizations and double talk

15:37

and then the ultimate justification.

15:40

I'm doing it for the

15:42

kids Listen carefully as I

15:44

play it again for you. I Don't

15:47

walk around going I feel I deserve

15:49

this but I definitely feel like I

15:52

do because now I Make

15:55

the good living and I want my children

15:57

to have things and what about Brad?

16:00

Things like the vacation. I

16:03

want him to be able to go, you know, on

16:05

those things like, you know,

16:07

we're not hungry. We're not homeless. We

16:09

have the things that we need, you

16:11

know, we're Maslow's we are

16:13

above that. So

16:16

I figure he can go because this is when they're

16:18

going. Even the vacation I

16:20

took it wasn't some extravagant vacation. It

16:22

was the Florida with some

16:24

guys and we

16:26

weren't doing anything extravagant down there. Just

16:29

hanging out and having beer and, and,

16:32

you know, being goofy guys. But did

16:34

we plan for it? No. We

16:37

should have enough money to go

16:39

for a weekend with the guys down to Florida.

16:41

And, you know, it

16:44

wasn't like I was going to Vegas

16:46

and, you know, letting it ride at

16:48

the casino or something. Yeah. And

16:50

could you afford dinner? Right.

16:53

Sometimes you don't have to be

16:57

eating at a Michelin starred restaurant

16:59

in order to be overspending. Right.

17:02

Like there are a lot of families that never eat out. They

17:04

just can't afford it. So I just

17:06

want to I want to be careful who

17:09

we're comparing ourselves to. Yeah.

17:11

I was one of those kids that had a

17:13

had a paper out when he was like 12

17:15

years old and saved every penny and bought it.

17:18

Bought my first bike, you know, walking past the

17:20

bike store every day on my way to work,

17:22

looking at that bike in the window. And and

17:25

I finally, you know, said, Dad, I got the money saved

17:27

up on. And he's like, what? And

17:29

he didn't even realize that I've been saving it. And

17:32

I went in and worked down cash and

17:34

rode home on the bike. How much did you

17:36

make on that paper route? Twenty

17:38

bucks a week or something like that. Twenty bucks a

17:41

week. It wasn't very much. All right.

17:43

Well, to save up 300 bucks is very impressive.

17:45

Yeah. And it was a morning paper out. So

17:47

I had to get up at 430 every day,

17:49

no matter if it was raining or snowing. And

17:52

why did you do that? Because they were going

17:54

to buy me a bike. My mom was a

17:56

stay at home mom. My dad was a banker, like

17:59

a retail banker. What kind of banker? He

18:01

was a commercial loan officer. Okay. We

18:03

would go to dinner maybe once a

18:05

year and you know, take a

18:07

vacation, you know,

18:10

camping or something like that. Nothing, not

18:12

going to Disney or something like that and spending a lot

18:14

of money. And when you say you ate out once a

18:16

year, is that for real? You're not exaggerating? I'm

18:19

not exaggerating, no. Okay. All right. I

18:22

didn't really talk about it. I just

18:24

remember we never really had a budget

18:26

for food. My mom always thought food

18:29

was like medicine. You know, you eat

18:31

healthy and it's just preventative medicine. She

18:34

made everything from scratch at home

18:37

and that

18:39

was the only really side

18:41

financially that I really

18:43

heard. Do you remember asking them as

18:45

a kid, like, can we go to McDonald's? Like what

18:47

would they have said to that? My

18:50

mom would have said, no, we can make a

18:52

burger at home with it's way better than a

18:54

McDonald's burger, you know? Nice. And they were so

18:57

you can't argue with that. That's true. And what

18:59

about if you said like, mom, I

19:01

want to go to Disneyland or I want to go here

19:03

or there, what would you have said or what would your

19:05

dad have said? They

19:08

would find ways, like, like I

19:11

had friends that were in like the ski club

19:13

at school and they, and they would ski in

19:15

these really fancy outfits and they had brand new

19:17

skis and all, you know, all the equipment. I

19:19

didn't have all that, but my mom found a

19:21

way to make it work. She would find used

19:24

skis and I would ski in my blue jeans

19:26

and still had

19:28

fun. That's cool. I

19:30

love that resourcefulness of parents.

19:32

I love it. It was a middle-class

19:35

life. Yeah,

19:37

I think so. I mean, I

19:40

would do crazy stuff to earn money. I would

19:42

sneak onto the golf course at night with my

19:45

friends and we'd go in the water up to

19:47

our chins and get golf

19:49

balls and we'd bring them home and clean them up.

19:52

My mom would save egg cartons and we'd sort

19:54

them by the brand and we'd go

19:56

out on the golf course the next day and

19:58

or Saturday, whatever. golf

20:00

balls to the golfers sell the same balls

20:02

they probably hit into the water. And

20:05

we'd make money doing

20:07

that. I got a job at a restaurant when

20:09

I was 16. And I just

20:11

always had a

20:13

job really. What did you feel when you

20:17

got that money, whether it's cash or a paycheck? What

20:19

did you feel? Independent.

20:24

I didn't have to ask my

20:26

parents for money. They didn't know

20:28

where I was spending it either. So

20:31

that was kind of fun. I would be

20:33

able to get whatever I wanted and

20:35

not have to ask. Yeah. Okay.

20:39

And if we

20:42

just fast forward 35

20:45

years and it's you in

20:48

Florida and you're calling up your wife and

20:51

you're saying, can you please

20:53

put 50 bucks

20:55

on the card? What does

20:58

that feel like? Yeah.

21:05

It felt like I was a kid asking my parents

21:07

for money. And

21:10

I'm not blaming Angie. I don't want to

21:13

come across as I'm blaming her. It

21:16

just felt like

21:18

I wasn't in control of my own money. Yeah.

21:20

I can't feel good. Yeah.

21:24

I don't know what to make of Brad's story about having

21:26

a paper route. You know, on one

21:28

hand, he was a very resourceful kid. It's

21:30

clear that he loved money and he loved

21:33

the independence it gave him. But

21:35

in his adult relationship with Angie,

21:37

he's acting the exact opposite. He

21:39

doesn't manage the money. Forget

21:41

independence. He is literally a dependent as

21:44

he calls his wife and asks her

21:46

to put money on the card so

21:49

he can pay for dinner on vacation with

21:51

his friends. I'm

21:53

confused. Let's

21:56

take a quick pause for a message from our sponsors. Thinking

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24:48

back to Brad and Angie. We're

24:50

Gen Xers and so sometimes we're talking about

24:52

like the clothes you know we had when

24:54

we were kids and I wanted

24:56

the Gloria Vanderbilt jeans and I couldn't have

24:59

them. So like his

25:01

family to me was rich as

25:03

I look back you know. We

25:06

went out to eat more but my mom was

25:08

working as a waitress so we'd eat there you

25:10

know at a supper club. This is Wisconsin we

25:12

have supper clubs you know. Okay hold on

25:15

hold on hold on what is this supper club? Oh

25:17

my goodness yeah you go

25:19

to supper clubs around here they

25:21

serve you a delicious dinner and

25:24

you have old-fashioned in what old-fashioned

25:26

is. Yeah that's a Wisconsin thing.

25:28

Really? Now that's trendy you

25:30

know. Yeah so we got to go

25:33

out to eat there but that's because my mom either

25:35

got us to eat for free to your cheap. But

25:38

yeah we didn't do that a lot. My dad was a

25:40

truck driver so he was

25:42

gone a lot of the

25:44

time and my mom was raising three kids on

25:46

her own essentially when my dad was gone. So

25:50

and I had no idea we were broke. I

25:52

shouldn't say broke. We were able to pay

25:55

for things to my mind but I

25:57

never asked for anything extra. And

26:00

I couldn't afford the clothes that I wanted

26:02

and things like that. How do you know you couldn't

26:04

afford it? I don't know how I

26:06

knew because we never talked about

26:08

money at all. One

26:11

time when I was a young adult,

26:13

my mom said she remembers searching through

26:15

the couch cushions for milk

26:17

money. Wow. And I, and I was like,

26:20

you know, or every year my

26:22

mom would say, it's not going

26:24

to be a big Christmas this year. And

26:26

it was always a perfectly fine Christmas. You

26:28

know, we definitely, we had

26:31

what we needed to live. I

26:33

was never disappointed. I

26:35

don't ever remember thinking, Oh, we didn't get anything

26:37

for Christmas. It was never

26:39

like that. Okay. How is

26:41

she doing financially? They're

26:43

fine. They're, you know, they're retired for

26:45

many years now and they

26:47

watch their money because it's, there's no income

26:50

coming in, but they don't feel the need

26:52

to work to bring any extra income in.

26:54

So they're, yeah, they, I think they've done

26:56

well for themselves. As I look back, I would

26:58

have liked to have known more about how they

27:00

did that, you know, and how they got to

27:02

that point. It just wasn't talked

27:05

about. It's a very Midwest

27:07

thing, you know? Yeah. Money is for the adults.

27:10

And she has a very German family too.

27:12

You know, okay. Got it. Bring up emotions.

27:17

So, um, did you two of you ever

27:19

talk about your upbringings around money with each

27:21

other? Yeah.

27:24

We have. Yeah. She's the fact that

27:26

there is nothing. Really to talk about.

27:29

Well, Angie makes it sound like she grew up

27:31

on little house on the prairie and she

27:34

lived, you know, out in the country and

27:36

they, they were happy with,

27:38

you know, a straw doll for Christmas

27:40

or something. I

27:42

don't think it was that bad, but that's how

27:44

it sounds. Hey, one year we got one

27:46

year that mom said it wasn't going to

27:48

be a good Christmas. We got these big

27:50

TV pillows, me and my sister and brother,

27:52

and we loved them. So,

27:55

Hey, we were happy. It's

27:57

not that I didn't have things as a kid.

28:00

I just knew that my parents worked their butts

28:02

off. They were not just

28:04

sitting around doing things for themselves. They were

28:06

working really hard for us and it was

28:08

tough. So I didn't want to bother them

28:10

with things. I wanted

28:13

to feel like I'm free

28:15

to do this now. I want to

28:17

be able to say, yeah, we

28:19

can do that. We can do that. We can do

28:21

that. I'm not crazy about

28:24

it, but it's still above our means

28:26

a little bit sometimes. But

28:30

if I was ahead a little bit,

28:32

then it wouldn't be. Did

28:34

things change when you started making more money after your

28:37

master's degree? Yeah.

28:41

For the better, I think. You made a lot more

28:43

money then, right? I think that's when we

28:45

really buckled down and that's what we were

28:48

trying to pay off debt and

28:51

consolidate debt and get to a

28:53

better place because now we

28:55

had the money to do that and to

28:57

catch up. I'm looking at

28:59

downsizing and getting rid of clutter and

29:01

I don't need a lot of things.

29:04

I just want the simple life. I don't want to have

29:06

to worry so much. And I don't

29:08

like I don't need a fancy

29:11

watch and a fancy car and all this. I just

29:13

want to have. A

29:16

fun adventure with my wife and see this

29:19

country's beautiful sights and things like

29:21

that. Like before it

29:23

was like, OK, we're racking

29:26

all this stuff up just to survive, basically.

29:28

And then once she got her

29:30

degree and got a better job, then it was like,

29:32

OK, we're making better money. Now

29:35

let's get the financials

29:37

in order. You know, we didn't

29:39

just. Say, well, yeah,

29:42

this money, let's go spend a little bit, a little

29:44

bit. We took a trip with the kids because we

29:46

finally had a little money. And we were like, this

29:48

might be our last trip with the kids because now

29:51

they're all moving out and where'd you go? That

29:53

was the Mexico trip. How much did that

29:55

trip cost? Ten thousand, fifteen

29:58

thousand, probably because. because we took

30:01

as many of the kids as we could. I

30:03

don't think it's that little. I

30:05

think it's more. It might be, probably.

30:08

It's kind of like asking somebody how much they

30:10

drink. It's usually double it, you know? Oh

30:12

yeah, I know. Like

30:14

when your doctor says, how many drinks would you say? Yeah,

30:16

they just take whatever, especially if you're a guy, they take

30:19

whatever and then they triple it. Like,

30:21

all right. Yeah. I've

30:23

tried to ask Angie how much we spent on that

30:25

Mexico trip, but I don't think I've ever. I don't

30:27

think I've ever got a straight answer. No. Okay,

30:31

here are four things where nobody

30:33

ever knows the actual cost of

30:35

them. Number one, a house, number

30:37

two, a car, number three, a wedding, and number

30:39

four, a vacation. Do you know why?

30:42

Because you don't want to know.

30:45

People pick some arbitrary number for their wedding, like

30:47

the couple we heard from last week, and then

30:49

as the costs start creeping up and it's too

30:51

late to cancel, they simply shift

30:54

those costs to some black hole where

30:56

you'll never have to think about it again. Well, I don't

30:58

know, it's a little bit more than I thought. Oh well,

31:00

can't do anything about it now. This

31:03

is the power of systems and

31:05

psychology that I teach in IWT.

31:09

You've got to be humble enough to admit that you,

31:11

me, and all of us, we

31:14

are all human. This idea

31:16

that I don't want to know the truth. Okay, you don't want

31:18

to know the truth, neither do I. Now let

31:20

me build a system to make sure that I can still function.

31:23

I can save up ahead of time. I can

31:25

add a healthy buffer, and then I can try

31:27

as much as possible to stick to a number.

31:30

But the trying part is the

31:32

least of it. Building in the

31:34

buffer and the systems, that is

31:36

the real magic here. Okay,

31:38

back to Brad and Angie. Angie

31:41

got her masters, which triggered some changes

31:43

in their money dynamic, and they're talking

31:45

about potentially simplifying towards an RV life.

31:48

Recall that they are in their mid-50s. Let

31:51

me dig into their numbers for you right now. Their assets

31:53

are $494,000. Investments

31:56

are $394,000. Savings

31:59

is... about $3,000. Their debt is $433,000 for a total net

32:01

worth of $458,700. All

32:07

right. What do you

32:10

think about that number? I don't like it.

32:12

I mean, I'm happy with it in the

32:14

sense that it was way lower a

32:17

couple of years ago, but I still am

32:19

not happy with it. When I project it

32:21

out, we

32:23

need like one and a half

32:25

million. Okay, good. Just the fact

32:27

that you use the word projected is impressive to me.

32:29

That's great. Okay, Brad, what do you think about those

32:31

numbers? Um,

32:35

I don't really know what they all mean. We have

32:37

about 11,000 in various credit cards. And then the

32:40

car loan is about 30. That's my

32:48

Bronco. The

32:51

HELOC 39. Okay. Student loans, 107. Okay. And

32:53

our mortgage about 243. What's

33:06

the interest rate on the student

33:09

loans and the mortgage? The

33:12

student loans on the bulk of it, on 105,000 of

33:14

it, it's six and a half percent. Okay.

33:19

And what about the mortgage? And the mortgage is

33:21

3.125. We

33:24

took out a HELOC not

33:26

too long ago to do some projects

33:28

around the house. We kind of

33:30

went through that pretty quickly on some of these projects.

33:32

And then Angie said, oh, that's that's

33:34

pretty much gone now. And I'm like, what do

33:37

we spend all that on? And she's like, well,

33:39

we paid off the car and we did this

33:41

and we did that. And we did all these

33:43

landscaping projects. And yeah, I guess it did go

33:45

faster than I thought it would, but we got

33:47

a lot done. So I think we'll be in

33:49

a good place when we go to sell the

33:51

house. You know, we put

33:53

a lot of sweat equity into it.

33:55

All right, cool. Let's

33:57

continue down here. Income. Did

34:00

you know that you made a $245,000 household income? Not

34:05

really. Angie, did you? Yeah.

34:10

Well, you two fit statistically perfectly because

34:12

about 50% of the people I speak

34:14

to do not know how much they

34:16

make. So here we go, 50%. This

34:19

is only because I was using your

34:21

conscious spending plan though before, so it's

34:23

helped. Before that, you didn't know. Not

34:26

really, because I mean,

34:28

I know what I make, I wasn't really

34:31

figuring it out though. Kind

34:33

of crazy, isn't it? Yeah. We

34:36

spend our entire lives talking

34:38

about work, thinking about work, being at

34:40

work, and 50% of

34:43

us don't really know how

34:45

much we make. Yeah. I

34:48

don't think that I put that

34:50

kind of thought into it all

34:52

the time because I was just

34:54

trying to get through the month.

34:56

Paycheck, to paycheck, to paycheck, to

34:58

paycheck that I just didn't, the

35:00

only time I thought about it was when

35:02

you have to fill in a little scrolly

35:05

thing when you're doing something online. A

35:08

lot of us believe very simple stories about

35:10

money. You can hear it with Brad and

35:12

Angie over and over. We needed to renovate,

35:14

so we took a home equity line of

35:17

credit. That just rolled off

35:19

their tongue, when in reality, a home

35:21

equity line of credit is an extremely

35:23

complex financial instrument. And

35:25

even their comment that they're just trying

35:28

to get through the months, paycheck to

35:30

paycheck, a lot

35:32

of people just roll that right off their

35:34

tongue as well. A lot of people genuinely

35:36

believe that most Americans live paycheck to paycheck.

35:39

Number one, that is not true. And

35:41

number two, that is meaningless since

35:43

you have personally heard people on

35:46

this podcast who make multiple six

35:48

figures. They max out their 401Ks,

35:50

their 529s, and

35:52

then they complain that they are living

35:54

paycheck to paycheck. Please

35:56

stop with these simple stories

35:59

that may- you seem

36:01

helpless around money. If

36:04

you look up what the actual status

36:06

of American finances is today, it's

36:08

better than ever. Yes,

36:10

housing is expensive. Yes, healthcare is

36:13

expensive. But you've got to stop

36:15

repeating these phrases that

36:17

not just coincidentally disempower

36:19

you. So if you're going

36:21

to pick a story to follow, why not pick

36:23

one where you're empowered and strong? Comment

36:26

below if you've ever told yourself

36:28

a disempowering story about money before

36:31

and what it was. I am curious. I'm going to

36:34

read every one of those comments. We'll

36:36

be right back. What's

36:38

something you want to do differently in 2024? My

36:42

wife and I were sitting down. We were doing

36:44

our annual Rich Life Review and we were talking

36:46

about some of the categories that we want in

36:49

our rich life. And one of the things that

36:51

emerged from this organic discussion was beauty. We

36:54

both want to surround ourselves with beauty.

36:56

We came up with a few different ways that we can do

36:59

that. And I found myself about

37:01

a week later just browsing around and I

37:03

was looking at a master class video by

37:05

Kelly Worsler. She's an interior

37:07

designer. She's famous for doing hotels like

37:09

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37:11

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37:14

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37:16

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37:20

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37:22

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Okay. Now

38:29

back to the show. Listen to

38:31

how Brad describes his feelings about money.

38:35

I worked at a very toxic company for a very

38:37

long time and didn't get a raise for probably 10

38:39

years. Okay. And

38:41

so now I'm at this really great company

38:43

that treats me well. They give me a

38:45

nice bonus every Christmas. I kind of don't

38:47

really think about how much they're paying me

38:50

because they treat me so well. I

38:52

feel appreciated. I don't feel stressed

38:54

coming home. At the old place,

38:56

Andrew would say, you gotta get out of

38:58

there. So now I'm out of there and I feel

39:00

great. I guess I just kind of put it in

39:02

the back of my mind because I feel so much

39:04

better mentally and emotionally

39:07

and everything now. I'm

39:09

glad to hear that. Honestly, I mean, I

39:11

want everyone to have a great job

39:13

where they feel respected, appreciated, compensated

39:17

well. Yeah. But

39:19

I'm happy to hear that you made that move. Great job. But

39:22

I just want to say it's extremely

39:24

interesting that

39:26

the two of you make

39:30

certainly in the top 10% in

39:33

your area, probably the top 5%. Do

39:37

you feel rich? I

39:43

feel fortunate.

39:45

I know that we make that much money. I

39:47

don't feel rich because

39:50

I still worry about money. Okay.

39:53

Do you feel wealthy? See,

39:56

that's a term I can't apply to myself,

39:58

I guess. I don't know why. I

40:01

feel rich for what I have in life,

40:03

but not in a monetary standpoint. Listen,

40:07

Brad, it's not a Hallmark movie, okay? Oh,

40:09

the angels come out. Just watch out. His

40:11

hippie is going to come out. I know. Listen,

40:14

Brad, thank you. That's very pleasant. I love hearing that.

40:17

Do you feel wealthy? Do

40:19

you mean financially? Yes. No,

40:23

I don't feel wealthy. Okay, hold on. Hold

40:26

on. I'm still driving a

40:28

crappy car to work. I'm still on.

40:32

What's that number on screen right there? Read

40:35

it out again, Brad. 2, 4,

40:37

5, 9, 1, 6. That's your household

40:39

income in Wisconsin. If

40:42

somebody in California saw the size of our yard, they'd

40:44

be like, that's like a $5 million

40:46

piece of property in San

40:49

Francisco or something. Maybe more. Yeah.

40:52

I love this beautiful example where you

40:54

make an extremely

40:56

high household income, which by

40:58

the way, doesn't even factor in some bonus. We'll

41:01

get there. You

41:03

live in Wisconsin. All

41:06

the excuses are out the door, and

41:09

yet here we have the two of

41:11

you who still don't feel wealthy.

41:15

What does that tell you? We're warped? No, they're

41:17

not warped. They're

41:20

just like everyone else who realizes that the

41:22

way you feel about money is highly uncorrelated

41:24

to how much you've got in the bank.

41:27

I especially love this example because they

41:29

live in an affordable area. Listen

41:32

now as they do mental gymnastics

41:35

to make sense of their wealth.

41:38

Honestly, I don't know because I

41:41

do make enough money. I can

41:43

buy this really cool composter for

41:45

my little pantry so

41:48

I can compost things, but I

41:50

just feel like, nope, that's too much. I can't

41:52

do that. I can't do that. I

41:54

don't know. Why don't I have

41:56

this money? leftover

42:00

in my account every month. What's

42:03

up with that? Why is my savings so

42:05

low? If I'm so rich, or

42:08

wealthy, or whatever? I'm not handling

42:10

it well or something. I think that's very candid.

42:12

I wish more people would just be honest about

42:14

that. What does

42:17

it tell you about your feelings, Brad? The fact

42:19

that both of you are utterly

42:21

resistant to define yourselves as

42:23

wealthy, even though your income is in the top

42:26

4% or 3%? It

42:29

tells me that we

42:33

have the means, but we're not managing

42:35

it the way we could

42:38

be. If you managed it, would your feelings

42:40

magically change? Oh,

42:43

I see. No, probably not. Hell

42:45

no. Well, when

42:47

I think of rich, I think of people

42:50

just spending extravagantly. And I don't think we've

42:52

ever done that. But didn't you tell

42:54

me you took a HELOC and you do all this

42:57

renovation sounds pretty extravagant to me. I'll

42:59

do all the work myself though. I was moving boulders

43:02

that were 300 pounds.

43:04

I went to pick out the Vikunya sweater

43:07

that I bought myself. I felt 10 different

43:09

cash mirrors. Instead of paying a landscaper, that

43:11

is what I'm saying. I did all the

43:13

work myself. I

43:17

feel like that's the

43:20

compromise that I make in my head. Yeah, we

43:22

took out this loan, but I'm going to do

43:24

all the work myself. So it's not

43:26

as bad. It's not... Because

43:30

what does bad mean to you? If

43:32

you're doing that work and putting the sweater equity in,

43:35

then it's not so bad to rack up that debt.

43:38

I guess I want to ask you, Brad, what if

43:40

you could live your life without having to rationalize what

43:43

you do with your money? Like for example,

43:46

there are certain things I love to spend money on. I

43:49

know my numbers. If

43:52

I can't afford it today, I save up for it

43:55

in a disciplined way. And when I go buy it,

43:57

I don't need to justify

43:59

it by... Saying you know I'm

44:01

sweating and pushing a wheelbarrow. I bought

44:03

it cuz I love it and I

44:05

can afford it Does

44:10

that sound like a possible

44:12

identity for you Brad or does it

44:14

sound totally opposite of who you are

44:18

be honest Yeah,

44:20

it would be hard for me even now like

44:24

Angie tries to get me to buy new clothes And

44:26

I'm going to the thrift store and buying she's like

44:28

we don't you don't need to do that, honey You

44:30

know we have money you can go buy new clothes.

44:33

Do you know why you do it? it's

44:36

it just seems extravagant when I can buy a a

44:40

really nice shirt that is $5

44:44

versus a $40 shirt this

44:46

sounds very normal to what he says But

44:48

I I come home with a new new

44:51

clothes for him And he's like I could

44:53

have gotten that at the you know

44:55

goodwill and so he says that a lot

44:58

Like I just bought one of the little Roomba

45:01

vacuum, you know not Roomba That's one of

45:03

those things around the house and

45:05

I felt totally guilty like

45:08

I didn't even tell him I did it Not because

45:10

I'm afraid he's gonna Be

45:12

upset about the money at all, but

45:15

because it feels like a shameful

45:17

purchase even though I Don't

45:20

know we have a hard time with it. I

45:22

agree. I don't feel like we're you know, like

45:24

I still judge somebody

45:27

who is wealthy by an eighth grade experience

45:29

of me sitting in a social studies class

45:31

and This girl that

45:33

was in my school that we all knew was the rich

45:35

one Laura the rich one Whatever

45:39

I would write it down in my notebook

45:41

What shoes she was wearing because I was

45:43

so shocked that she had 30

45:46

different pairs of shoes that she didn't have to wear the same

45:48

pair of shoes. I Just like

45:51

this is crazy. And you talked about the

45:53

kid that had the round driveway a

45:56

circle driveway I always meant you were very rich too. Let

45:58

me make an observation Financially

46:02

speaking, the

46:04

two of you are wealthy.

46:08

I'm talking about income. And

46:11

when I hear you talk about the way

46:14

that you think about money,

46:16

behave with money, feel

46:19

about money, I

46:22

notice that you're both still playing very

46:24

small. And

46:26

in fact, you have the worst of many

46:28

worlds because you're playing

46:31

small, meaning you're

46:33

still talking about goodwill, not

46:37

because you enjoy goodwill, but

46:39

rather because it's just inconceivable to you

46:41

to change your identity and to recognize

46:43

that you can actually spend more. I

46:46

hear this eighth grade reference, which

46:49

was like 40 years ago. It

46:51

deeply sticks with you. I appreciate you. But

46:55

at the same time, you've

46:57

convinced yourself that you're just

47:00

simple people who

47:02

are not spending extravagantly. Meanwhile, you

47:04

have $11,000 of credit card debt. You

47:06

have a home equity line of credit at $40,000. You

47:09

have a car loan for $30,000. A student loans for $107,000 and a mortgage. So

47:16

you're actually getting the worst of both worlds.

47:18

You're playing small and

47:20

you're telling yourself, oh, we're simple

47:22

people, but you're deeply in debt.

47:25

Wouldn't it be much better to simply

47:28

acknowledge we make extremely

47:30

high incomes? We

47:33

probably need to change the way that

47:36

we treat money. If

47:41

I'm playing the

47:43

comparative thing with people I know, I

47:45

know people that have

47:47

a second vacation

47:49

home and they have hunting

47:52

land that they go to, and they have a boat

47:55

and a Harley and they have this and I have all

47:57

these toys, I don't feel like we're spending a lot of

47:59

money. on like, like,

48:03

I don't know. I don't feel like we have all

48:05

these toys that, that, that

48:08

guys have my age that I know

48:11

we don't do that. Brad, who said anything

48:13

about comparing yourself to someone? I

48:17

don't know if it's a Midwestern thing or people don't

48:19

share what they make. We're just

48:21

simple people. We can

48:23

take a home equity line of credit

48:26

and spend it on expensive home renovations.

48:28

But because I pushed that lawnmower myself

48:30

and I hammer in the nail myself,

48:33

that's not extravagant. Meanwhile, they're actually living

48:35

the worst of all worlds because they

48:37

have to concoct these fantastic justifications and

48:40

they're still in debt for

48:43

a couple making $245,000. A

48:47

rich life does not have to mean ATVs and,

48:50

and a hunting ground lodge or what it, it

48:53

doesn't have to be that. It

48:55

can be what you want. Right.

48:58

What is that like for you and Brad? What's the thing

49:00

you do in your life

49:02

where you see it, if you can afford

49:04

it and you want it, you get it. What is it?

49:07

Oh, it's usually something stupid, Star Wars related.

49:09

If I say it, I just

49:11

get it. Why does it have to be stupid?

49:15

Cause it's, cause I'm

49:17

a 55 year old man buying toys. So

49:20

what? I think that's cool. Yeah. Honestly,

49:23

it's pretty refreshing to see a guy having a

49:25

hobby. I don't think it's stupid. I think

49:28

it's interesting. You described your own hobby at 55 as

49:30

stupid. Well, I

49:32

think most people would call it stupid. You

49:35

see what I'm doing with my head right now. I'm

49:39

not trying to minimize your life. I actually

49:41

think it's cool. And

49:44

Brad, what I wish is that you

49:46

would find your own interest cool as

49:48

well. Cause they

49:50

don't need to be minimized. I

49:52

think it's really interesting and cool that you're

49:55

an artist. Like this guy has

49:57

clearly thought about what he loves. He

50:00

has a little hobby, a little routine, and

50:02

he's got this beautiful office where he puts

50:04

his things, memories. It's

50:06

f***ing cool. So

50:09

if anything, Brad, I'm impressed. And

50:12

the money part is irrelevant to this. It's just

50:14

the fact that I like

50:16

seeing people unapologetic about what they love.

50:19

That's what I like. But

50:21

what it would take would be

50:23

changing the way you think about your money.

50:25

Because right now, that's really focusing on

50:28

$3 questions. Lunch,

50:30

should I get this shirt? Should

50:33

I get the Star Wars thing from Goodwill? That's

50:36

not the question anymore. The question is, why do

50:38

you make $250,000 and

50:40

have only $2,900 in savings? That's

50:43

the question we should be asking. Why do you

50:45

have all this debt when you make $250,000? That's

50:48

the question we should be asking. Those are the $30,000 or

50:51

even $300,000 questions. And

50:54

that's the kind of questions wealthy people

50:56

concern themselves. Okay,

50:59

that's what we want to do. The theme

51:01

of today is elevated. We're

51:04

not gonna play small anymore. I just won't allow it. Cool?

51:08

Yep. Let's put the numbers back up. Okay.

51:11

Your fixed costs

51:13

are 70% of your take-home pay. That's a little

51:15

too high. Your housing cost

51:17

is extremely low. That's

51:20

fantastic. So I calculated

51:22

that I combined your mortgage

51:25

and your utilities and you're at 7.3%. God

51:29

bless Wisconsin. We

51:32

refinanced at a good time. Good. How

51:34

many kids live in the house now? Zero. Oh,

51:37

okay. So two of you. We're

51:39

empty-dancers. So happy. Good. All

51:41

right. Good for you. God bless empty-dancers, especially

51:44

after six kids. You really deserve all the peace you can

51:46

get. Your clothes are $100 fine. Debt

51:49

payment is $3,316. All

51:53

right, so I'm gonna guess that

51:56

you were overpaying on your

51:58

debt. And I'm guessing, because Angie. you

52:00

seem pretty savvy with money that you're overpaying on

52:02

your, to your get your credit card debt fast.

52:04

Is that correct? Yeah, I have

52:06

a snowball thing going on. All right,

52:09

fine. All right. So are you maxing out your

52:11

401k? Yeah, we're doing 20% on, on

52:15

Brad. 20% of his income at

52:17

60,000 a year. Yeah.

52:22

Uh-huh. Oh good. Okay. So you're maxing it out. Fine. Yep.

52:25

And mine's, mine's only at

52:27

8% because I was too scared to do

52:29

too much. Uh, hold

52:31

on. We need to correct this real quick. This is

52:33

one of those things that will change. Angie,

52:35

the key thing that I would say is a

52:39

couple making $250,000 a year who's savvy with

52:42

money would never say

52:44

I'm afraid of investing too

52:47

much. Yeah.

52:49

Okay. Particularly when they are, they

52:52

had not been investing aggressively for a long

52:54

time. Yeah. Fair enough. Yep.

52:57

So that's, that's like a mental shift I want

52:59

you to start making. Okay. What would a couple

53:01

make a 250 K plus per year who's savvy with

53:03

money? What

53:07

would they be doing? Okay. This

53:09

is changing your identity along with increasing

53:11

your knowledge. Okay. Okay. All right. Your

53:13

savings goals are at 9%, which

53:16

is about a thousand dollars. Like

53:19

if you were 25 years old, I

53:22

would be like, this is good, but

53:24

you're 55 and you told me you want

53:26

to RV in 10 years, especially cause you're,

53:28

you know, you only have like 3000 bucks

53:31

in savings. Yep. Who's tracking all this

53:33

stuff? Oh, that's me.

53:35

Uh-huh. And um, anyone

53:38

see the costs of having Angie do all

53:40

this stuff for the last 20, 10

53:42

years? Oh yeah. I

53:44

just bought another book like with all our, so I

53:46

could write all my passcodes in it cause I'm afraid

53:48

he wouldn't be able to write

53:50

my passwords and stuff. Cause I'm afraid. I don't know.

53:53

I don't know what would happen. Can I tell you

53:55

first of all, it's not the

53:57

passwords that are going to save them. Trust

53:59

me. You can sit him

54:01

down right now logging and your counts private. Have

54:03

no idea what's going on. Bread Favorite fair to

54:05

say. Yeah.

54:08

It's a problem for a thirty year old

54:11

married couple. But it's a

54:13

much bigger problem for a mid fifties

54:15

couple. Now. We've.

54:18

Got to get real. You know, people in your

54:20

fifties? your friend probably have gotten sick, maybe even

54:22

some who passed away. I'm

54:25

not afraid. and I don't think anyone should be

54:27

afraid. It's argument. Mortality Rogan A dial. Let's talk

54:30

about it. So. Part of

54:32

that is this one of the reasons I

54:34

insist that both couples get involved with money.

54:37

right? But I'm gonna get hit by a bus one

54:39

day or something. And using a want to leave.

54:41

A grieving wife. At

54:44

the mercy of some Goldman Sachs face

54:47

was going to try to circle her

54:49

like a vulture in charge. One point

54:51

two, five percent Am. Know.

54:54

We. Listed awesome categories in the Csp.

54:57

To. Give Brad ownership of

54:59

them. See. When you've got

55:01

one thousand of his been ignoring money

55:03

for a long time, they need to

55:05

take ownership and you can start off

55:07

small groceries would be one things like

55:10

that. but I wanted to really dive

55:12

into the R V that they wanna

55:14

get and travel around the country. Since.

55:17

You could say you want to. Like retire

55:20

and do the Rv thing in like.

55:22

Ten Years. We're. Talking

55:24

like to. Know.

55:27

What? Two

55:30

years a serious. Is. Naha. But

55:34

I'm not going to quit working. And it's working.

55:37

Or. Are. You sell your house?

55:39

Yes, yes, I'm actually going to make from

55:41

then. On

55:44

whole, then just under on

55:46

depending on the market. still

55:48

dead at the players. I'm

55:50

like around two hundred or

55:52

just under that. Two

55:55

hundred that's all entered minus

55:58

transaction fees. Update in painting

56:00

all that stuff. Now and that

56:02

was yeah, that was not without all

56:04

those things. So maybe

56:06

like. It's not gas. Fifty.

56:09

K. Yeah. The.

56:13

One Fifty. And

56:15

then get a bite or the yeah, Ah,

56:18

how much does that cost? Well,

56:20

I'm hoping around eighty, eighty, or

56:22

ninety thousand. Has

56:25

been going to use one even get a brand new one.

56:28

I. Am. A

56:31

new the extravagance. See

56:33

also black people are just getting

56:35

an eighty thousand. they're all be.

56:37

Where's the money for all this

56:39

like we've. Already. Discussed I tend to

56:41

say. It'll all work out.

56:44

And I just want. To.

56:47

Have my eyes a little more

56:49

open at that? Before

56:51

we get there was the point

56:53

is that it's not your eyes

56:55

alone that need to decide this.

56:57

it's Brad's yeah you alone cannot

57:00

carry the load anymore. As

57:02

such, Number One. On

57:04

how much have you spent on renovate a

57:06

lot Like how much. Well.

57:10

We've built the pond in our backyard, so

57:12

that was about. Fifteen.

57:15

Twenty thousand dollars? probably?

57:19

Simple. People with a pond on

57:21

what else? You know, did a

57:23

lot of tree removal and so that's probably

57:25

been. Over the last two years I spent

57:28

about at least ten that I think ten

57:30

thousand. Twenty five. What else? We.

57:34

Remodeled our bathroom, I

57:37

keep thinking about wanting to redo my

57:39

laundry room, but. How much?

57:41

And so far that's about forty k. What else? Forget.

57:44

About the fact you wanna. Do

57:47

harvey thing two years from now. it bigger

57:49

were fifty five. We have less than three

57:51

thousand dollars in savings and we want to

57:53

drop freaky on home renovations. I'll be like

57:56

no way. Yeah, there's no

57:58

way it makes no financial. The

58:00

a second I want to point out that. His

58:03

whole story about you know, I don't

58:05

need all this other fancy stuff like

58:08

hoodie came home renovations actually quite fancy.

58:10

It's just politically acceptable

58:12

where you live. Ah,

58:16

We. Don't need all this fancy stuff. We're.

58:18

Going to just run of in our house. We're. Going

58:20

to do it ourselves. Where people of

58:22

the earth and. It's

58:24

gonna come back to strike as an investment. So.

58:27

When they sell it that another story

58:29

upon story upon story. But.

58:31

The fact is, we're looking at the numbers. And

58:34

who's still said it's. right?

58:36

Three. Thousand dollars a month been paid for death. So.

58:39

The stories are not lighting up with me out. At

58:42

frail would I say you have to sell

58:44

your house today Know. But what

58:46

I say? if it stops you from

58:48

renovating more, you should. Maybe. Or.

58:50

Just Stop Renovate. The.

58:54

All see that you have been

58:56

over spending. He valued. Hold yourself,

58:58

You haven't. Yet so.

59:01

The story that you tell yourself is totally

59:03

and can grew up with reality. Agreed,

59:07

there's no reason to take a he lock. Is

59:10

no reason I know. Bread

59:12

Or you were that as it currently stands, you

59:14

cannot. Go. In the

59:17

Rv two years from now. It wasn't

59:19

a set date, it's a goal if it

59:21

takes. For. Years of

59:23

the Takes. Five years at that? the question

59:25

now. But. I'm.

59:29

He. Can't do it in five years either. All.

59:33

of you feel about that. Hall.

59:38

I. Would have liked to have done that. I

59:41

don't want to wait until I'm sixty five

59:43

to to go and do these things. and

59:45

I'm too old to. I

59:48

got that mountain or something. or you know,

59:50

I don't want to wait until I'm. I'm.

59:55

You know you hear about people. they retire and

59:57

they're literally deaden five years, side and up and

59:59

rather do it now. And we. And.

1:00:01

We're still relatively healthy and can

1:00:03

do those things. Is interesting.

1:00:06

I've actually several times brad like how

1:00:08

do you feel about something I've never once

1:00:10

gotten an emotional. Answer. And

1:00:12

as a guy, Who. Probably

1:00:14

like you was not raised talking about

1:00:16

feelings a lot. I totally totally understand

1:00:18

it. I completely understand it. When

1:00:21

I ask you how you feel about certain things, Are

1:00:24

not is asking. For. No reason

1:00:26

I notice your response is typically to

1:00:28

minimize it out. That's a bad. oh.

1:00:30

three years is actually five. Maybe five,

1:00:32

maybe nine. It's not that big videos

1:00:34

and. If you were to actually

1:00:36

access how you feel about it, And.

1:00:39

You will actually. Like.

1:00:41

Rip a the shield of armor and maybe

1:00:43

get really. Honest baby. Really vulnerable

1:00:45

in a way that you haven't been too often

1:00:48

or a money. I. Think that

1:00:50

might actually connect with Angie. And. Make

1:00:52

her understand the effects of what

1:00:55

is going on, particularly the overspending.

1:00:58

Look at in his face, read them, Bread.

1:01:02

You do their thing which is. You.

1:01:04

Say everything's gonna be okay. And

1:01:07

as. A. Provider. In.

1:01:10

All the gendered ways. That.

1:01:12

Sweat A lot of people vertically men are taught

1:01:15

to do it's going to be fine. A

1:01:17

the sound familiar. Or. Yeah when

1:01:19

answer was going to her cancer I said

1:01:22

it's okay, he was only going be. One.

1:01:25

Season know it's gonna be winter and

1:01:27

by spring all it'll be behind us

1:01:29

and will be on to add a

1:01:31

new chapter in our lives and yet

1:01:34

discover how I'd handle. I'm trying to

1:01:36

handle things they thought because a day

1:01:38

God. And you that you're okay.

1:01:41

I'm. Thankful for I know you two are

1:01:43

thankful. Sometimes. You have to

1:01:45

be that just of the person who can stay

1:01:47

positive because someone else is going to something really

1:01:49

tough like you did. Edgy, Thank god for that.

1:01:52

But. This is not

1:01:54

the time for that bread at. This

1:01:56

isn't the time to put your head in the said. It's

1:01:59

happened for ten years. It's not the time to

1:02:01

say it's all gonna be okay. it's actually the time

1:02:03

to say. You. Know what? I

1:02:06

really want. To. Go on this

1:02:08

Rv trip with you edgy. And.

1:02:10

If we don't do it next year. Okay,

1:02:12

I can wait two years, I can eat wait three.

1:02:14

But I'm going to be pretty disappointed if we can.

1:02:17

It would actually make me regret a lot

1:02:20

of the stuff we're doing or nc it

1:02:22

confuses me. When. I come home

1:02:24

and see a rug. Because that's

1:02:26

money that could be going to words. Our

1:02:29

our V excursions. And

1:02:32

it hurts because I thought we were.

1:02:35

Focus on the same thing. Now.

1:02:38

Watch this Bread Nz if Bread

1:02:40

said that to you. How

1:02:43

would you react? Well it's

1:02:45

just hearing it kind of makes me

1:02:47

feel or anything feel little guilty at

1:02:49

first, but if I'm a tenner like

1:02:52

releases some pressure from. Like.

1:02:54

I have to make everything profit

1:02:56

he now and I. I

1:02:58

can't do that. As I'm

1:03:00

spending the money doing that and it's.

1:03:03

The. Railing are other plans. And

1:03:05

you can do it alone. And I can't do

1:03:07

it alone and it just feels like. Yeah. You

1:03:10

kick it where you're going alyssa to you are both

1:03:12

rowing in the same direction. Here's

1:03:16

what I would be do. I.

1:03:19

Would first sit down and have a

1:03:21

serious conversation with each other about. This

1:03:25

Rv thing we talked about. Let's.

1:03:28

Revisit! How serious Are. And

1:03:30

everything's on the table. Maybe. It's

1:03:32

the thing we want to do. Maybe.

1:03:34

Not. Maybe. We want to try it for

1:03:37

a month. We'll. Rent in Rb. Let's

1:03:39

just play it all up. What does that

1:03:41

look like? Because. Right now it sounds like

1:03:43

you're like earning the boats. Were. Going to

1:03:46

buy an R V and oldest of maybe I

1:03:48

don't know that you can afford to buy an

1:03:50

Rv at age fifty five with three thousand dollars

1:03:52

in savings. Ah, I think you could read what.

1:03:56

i think there's a law a big surplus

1:03:58

of rv owners who realizes more expensive

1:04:00

than they think. I'm sure you know plenty of

1:04:02

them. You go, all right, your misfortune is my

1:04:05

great luck. And I'm going to happily

1:04:07

rent for a little while. And another way

1:04:09

might be, no, we want to buy one. Okay, fine. So what's it

1:04:11

going to take for us to buy it? And

1:04:13

you start to go down each of these

1:04:15

paths. And you're having these connective conversations. And

1:04:17

one of these going, I

1:04:20

don't really feel that good about this option.

1:04:23

Or, gosh, this is like the

1:04:25

rental option for gosh, make me uncomfortable

1:04:28

because I always imagined us having our

1:04:30

own RV. But if it

1:04:32

was the choice of not doing it at all or

1:04:34

renting it, I could probably

1:04:36

get on board to rent it. At least

1:04:38

try that stuff like that. You're talking honestly. And

1:04:42

then you're looking at the numbers and saying what do we need to be

1:04:44

doing? Okay, I'd

1:04:47

just like to spend my later years

1:04:49

with Angie doing fun things. Now

1:04:52

that we're empty nesters, it'd

1:04:54

be nice to just go on some adventures with her. It

1:04:58

doesn't have to be in an RV. Love

1:05:00

that. Love the flexibility, Brad.

1:05:03

That's cool. Angie,

1:05:06

what are you hearing? I

1:05:08

mean, he said some of these things

1:05:10

to me before, you know, but I've

1:05:12

been solely like down this

1:05:14

one path, but not really because

1:05:16

I'm not planning properly for it. You know,

1:05:19

I like that feeling

1:05:21

of having

1:05:23

these meetings and talking about it and

1:05:26

having someone else to help me because

1:05:29

I don't know all the right things to do. I mean,

1:05:32

I try to educate myself, but it

1:05:36

feels like relief to me. Honestly,

1:05:39

it feels like relief. I can change some

1:05:41

things and we can have a more of

1:05:43

a combined effort to get

1:05:45

there. That makes me feel

1:05:47

encouraged. Okay, let's check

1:05:49

out their follow-ups and then I'm going to share my thoughts.

1:05:52

First, Angie. I

1:05:54

learned that I am giving away a

1:05:56

lot of my income, whether that means

1:05:58

to things like this or not. They

1:06:00

probably didn't need. Things I felt

1:06:02

like I deserved that had a

1:06:04

same So I've really reevaluated that

1:06:07

and will continue to do. That's

1:06:09

what surprised me. Is.

1:06:12

That I. Did.

1:06:14

Not. Know. How

1:06:17

to ask for help from my

1:06:19

husband's A? didn't know. That

1:06:21

I was like to be not

1:06:23

all inside so much as established

1:06:25

is doing the bill. The

1:06:27

changes Will I makes. I've been

1:06:30

working on our conscious ending can

1:06:32

and is able to move or

1:06:34

six costs down from seventy percent

1:06:36

along with Brutal and Sixty Nine.

1:06:39

To see so little high

1:06:41

five. It's in

1:06:43

the range into it you created so

1:06:45

a successful in that in the thing

1:06:47

that most resonated advances that movie Small

1:06:50

means that all want to do this

1:06:52

or of the experiments with her husband

1:06:54

on my little dog and travel around

1:06:56

the country and see all of our

1:06:59

kids and all the places that they

1:07:01

are. And see our

1:07:03

country. So I wanna do other things

1:07:05

are worse than a make this happen. And

1:07:08

now Brett. I. Learn from

1:07:11

our talk. Well, that ends

1:07:13

in eyes. If we want

1:07:16

to pursue this goal of

1:07:18

hours of Sawyer House, I'm.

1:07:22

Doing the Rv life that we

1:07:24

need to buckle down a lot

1:07:26

more focus on. Bigger

1:07:29

picture instead of. Parties

1:07:32

A. Small.

1:07:35

Amounts of debt six. So

1:07:38

we went through. or. Spreadsheets.

1:07:41

And with did some things

1:07:43

that we could cut outs

1:07:45

managed to. Get.

1:07:48

To. A good starting point

1:07:51

at least so me to find

1:07:53

some other areas where we can.

1:07:56

Make up for testing and things

1:07:59

like that. What? Changes

1:08:01

Well I make. There

1:08:03

is some simple things like to be doing

1:08:05

like that going out to lunch so much.

1:08:09

For a premium gas in my car, something

1:08:11

like things like that, I think that's about

1:08:13

it. says. The only

1:08:15

thing Brand and you for coming on

1:08:17

and discussing their finances is incredibly courageous

1:08:20

for anyone to come on the shelves

1:08:22

and open up what may be the

1:08:24

most intimate part of our culture. Our.

1:08:27

Finances With that said,

1:08:30

Candidly! I'm. Disappointed in

1:08:32

these folks. At the there

1:08:34

were a couple realizations like. Is he

1:08:36

asking for help From Brad's? Brad. Taking a

1:08:38

little bit of ownership over a couple of

1:08:40

categories. But when you're in your midst fifty

1:08:42

speaking: two hundred forty five thousand and you

1:08:44

have essentially no money in savings in debt.

1:08:47

There's a big realizations to be had.

1:08:51

No. I do know that for a lot

1:08:53

of people, it's difficult to think ahead. It's

1:08:55

difficult to make a long term plan. I

1:08:57

get that, and I have a lot of

1:08:59

compassion for how hard this is, especially with

1:09:01

much. But. When I

1:09:03

spent several hours with a couple who

1:09:06

applies to be on this podcast. Of.

1:09:08

Course. My ultimate hope is that they make a

1:09:11

big change. Unfortunately, That's

1:09:13

just not a reality for everyone. It's.

1:09:15

Very possible in life to

1:09:17

go through making more and

1:09:19

more money. Simply. Looking

1:09:21

at what's in front of you. A. New

1:09:24

car home renovation are the.

1:09:26

And. You just that? Feeling.

1:09:29

Bad. The. Entire time. And

1:09:32

that is not a rich life. I.

1:09:35

Want you to feel good. I want you

1:09:37

to feel confident competence. And I actually think

1:09:39

if you put a little bit of planning

1:09:41

into it's you can live a much richer

1:09:43

life than you ever thought possible. Anyway,

1:09:47

that's my philosophy. I want to think Bratton

1:09:49

and you for coming on the show being

1:09:51

so open with me. I do wish the

1:09:53

best for you and I would love to

1:09:55

hear and of the from New Year from

1:09:57

now Everyone who watches and listen to show

1:09:59

thank you so much for being a part

1:10:01

of it, for listening, for leaving comments, for

1:10:04

sending me feedback, all of it. This is

1:10:06

one of my favorite things I've done in

1:10:08

twenty years of running my business and a

1:10:10

lot of his because of you in the

1:10:12

community or with me every single sex and

1:10:14

I'll see you next week. Thanks

1:10:19

for listening to! I will Teach You

1:10:21

To Be Rich and Read Seat Please

1:10:23

follow the show on Apple, Spotify or

1:10:26

wherever you listen to podcasts. If you

1:10:28

haven't read I will Teach You To

1:10:30

Be Rich My book. Pick up a

1:10:32

copy you can get the any bookstore

1:10:35

any library. They will show you the

1:10:37

specific. For how

1:10:39

to build the i will teach you

1:10:41

to be rich system into your personal

1:10:43

finances.