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details. Hey,

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I'm Candace Lim. And I'm Rachel Hampton

0:46

and you're listening to Icy My. In

0:49

case you missed it. Slate's

0:51

podcast about internet culture. And

0:54

Candace, do you think Club

0:56

Chalamet is doing okay? I'm

0:58

worried for her. We need

1:00

to send a wellness check.

1:03

Oh, me too. I mean, the notice are on.

1:05

The pop cream alerts are on. The TMZ alerts

1:07

are on. For those of you

1:09

who go outside and

1:12

touch grass, this week, PopTings

1:14

tweeted, Kylie Jenner

1:16

is rumored to be pregnant,

1:18

expecting a baby with Timothée

1:21

Chalamet. And immediately the name

1:25

on everyone's lips was Club Chalamet

1:27

because we're just bracing for her

1:30

multi-graph Instagram

1:32

post about the fandom experiencing

1:35

a disruption

1:38

to its core. And

1:41

I just need to bring up that before this

1:43

tweet. There was indeed a blind item posted on

1:45

Dumoulin that said this Nepo Baby trendsetter is bringing

1:47

a very special plus one with her to this

1:49

year's Met Gala. And believe me, y'all aren't ready

1:52

to see who this will be. And of

1:54

course, FOMO HIVE, that is the Reddit

1:56

Hive of Dumoulin. They interpreted

1:59

this as like Okay, plus one

2:01

equals pregnancy announcement. Dappo Baby

2:03

trendsetter is either Hailey Bieber

2:05

or Kylie Jenner. And

2:07

now I'm not gonna say what or

2:10

who, I believe, but I just think we

2:12

have to wait until the first Monday of

2:14

May to find out. And

2:16

you're right. I will say that in terms of

2:19

the men that the Jenner

2:21

Kardashian hive have locked down,

2:24

I do kind of think Timothy

2:27

might be the biggest fish. Like Kris

2:29

Jenner might be rubbing her little hands

2:31

together like, oh! Her

2:33

little fins, yeah. Exactly,

2:35

exactly. In the meantime,

2:37

Candace, are there any other white women

2:39

you wanna talk about? Oh

2:42

my God, of course. I wanna

2:44

talk about someone that surprised me in

2:46

a very delightful way. Oh.

2:49

Who is Alex Cooper and her Vogue

2:51

wedding spread. Yes, yes. So Alex Cooper

2:53

is the host of the Call Her

2:55

Daddy podcast on Wednesday morning. Vogue posted

2:58

a bunch of photos and this like

3:00

full-ass article about her wedding to her

3:02

business partner now husband, Matt Kaplan. They

3:05

did a destination wedding in Mexico, I

3:07

believe, and it was very intimate. It

3:09

was like luxurious to its core. It

3:12

was definitely maybe a little sponsored. I

3:14

mean, have you seen the photos,

3:16

Rachel? What do you think? Of course

3:18

I've seen the photos. I'm on multiple

3:20

influencers, snark pages on Reddit. Yes.

3:24

I must say I disagree with most of

3:26

the Reddit girlies because a

3:28

lot of them are talking about how ugly

3:30

her dress is. I'm obsessed with her dress,

3:33

this drop waist, this

3:35

V drop waist and this beautiful

3:37

skirt. And I'm like, A, the

3:40

tailoring on it is exquisite. And

3:42

it's just like a perfectly bridal

3:44

gown. Without being

3:47

costume-y, I was obsessed with it.

3:49

I was obsessed with it. Yes,

3:52

oh. I love that we're on the right side of history. If you

3:54

guys hear the thing, a lot of times

3:56

when you see weddings and the dress is

3:58

a big deal, a lot of- people go

4:00

poofy or at least they're kind of venturing on

4:02

that like Princess Diana vibe, but the thing is Princess

4:04

Diana was never that type of person. She's biked

4:07

shorts with the sneakers on. And so the thing

4:09

about Alex is that I like that this wedding

4:11

was not such a far venture from who she

4:13

is. She records her podcast in sweats. And I

4:16

think there is something very simple about this wedding.

4:18

So let's talk about it. I

4:20

love everything about it. I love the photos with

4:22

the perfect sunset behind them. I am one

4:25

of the people that like click on Vogue wedding

4:27

spreads just to like shit on them because I'm

4:29

like, all right, whose nepo baby is this? I

4:31

would never have gone there. I would not have

4:33

chosen that color. I hate your napkins. Like I'm

4:35

kind of a hater. And so when I saw

4:37

this, I was like, why do I like everything?

4:39

Like why is it kind of refreshing and modern

4:41

and like possibly feminist?

4:45

I mean, the thing about money is that

4:47

it can't buy you taste. And unfortunately, it

4:49

seems like Alex Cooper, who didn't always have

4:51

as much money as she has now might

4:53

have taste but also feminist. As

4:56

super feminist say more, say more.

4:58

Let me I'm not there yet. And

5:00

let me be clear. I have a lot

5:02

of issues with the call her daddy economy

5:04

beginning all the way back to their barstool

5:07

days. But I really liked the article that

5:09

Alexandra Macon wrote about the wedding. You know,

5:11

first she talks about how Alex didn't

5:14

actually want to get married like ever. And at

5:16

some point she looked at her now husband and

5:18

was like, okay, you can propose.

5:20

I find actually very funny. And she also

5:22

says that she didn't plan the wedding. She didn't plan

5:24

a thing because her husband is like a producer. She

5:27

was never that girl who was like Pinteresting at

5:29

age six. And I identified with

5:31

that because like I'm a little anti marriage

5:33

right now. I will attend any wedding invite

5:35

me to I love an open bar. Okay.

5:38

But I also was never you

5:40

know, Pinteresting storyboarding venues and dresses and I

5:43

love that her now husband like handled almost

5:45

everything. And all Alex had to do was

5:47

just like pick her dresses and showed up

5:49

and she picked her dresses because you like

5:51

that one. A lot of them were kind

5:54

of vintage and the one I really like is

5:56

the one she wore for the first night. It's

5:58

the long Daniel Frankl one that kind of is

6:00

like sleeveless I think.

6:02

And I just, I

6:05

would have worn it. I would have worn it. And that's when I

6:07

was like, see, this is for

6:09

me. Copy paste, this is for me. Now

6:11

in terms of feminists, I

6:15

actually would love to know your thoughts on

6:17

this. So Alex walked herself down the aisle,

6:19

which I think is great. Her mother apparently

6:21

also walked herself down the aisle. And Alex

6:23

did this thing where the audience was facing

6:25

her as you walked down the aisle. So

6:27

she could really look them in the eye,

6:29

which I love, a confident bride. And

6:31

then her dad at the end of the night

6:34

announced that everyone was gonna run into the

6:36

ocean and they did, which is really cute. That

6:38

is cute. It is really cute. But I

6:40

guess what I just really love is the writer was

6:42

talking about how most people don't remember their wedding day

6:44

because of the stress and the go, go, go. It

6:46

just takes them out of the moment. But Alex was

6:48

like, I remember everything from that night because it was

6:51

what I wanted. And I'm like, damn it. I want

6:53

that. I want that Rachel. And her looks were great.

6:55

Like, you know, slick back hair, minimal makeup. It's not

6:57

glam. It's a little more clean and natural. I love

6:59

it with a little Botox. And I was

7:01

that girl. I wrote stuff down. I took screenshots and

7:04

I said, I'll see you in like five to seven

7:06

years. I

7:08

love that. I love that you found a wedding that really

7:10

speaks to you because my

7:13

feeling about weddings is I

7:15

think everyone finds a wedding that is for

7:17

them. It can be small. It can be

7:20

big. It can be expensive. It can be

7:22

cheap, but it's basically a party with all the

7:24

people that you love in the best setting. I

7:27

do enjoy the running into the ocean

7:29

afterwards. Unfortunately, the walking herself down the

7:31

aisle when her dad is alive does

7:33

give girl boss Kate keep gas light.

7:36

And you know what? It's a little

7:38

bit like Beyonce always talking about her

7:40

dad, like he's dead. Meanwhile,

7:42

that man is alive. That man

7:44

is alive and well. So,

7:47

you know, I never thought I would compare

7:49

Alex Cooper and Beyonce in the same sentence.

7:51

So we're both surprised. You did a full

7:53

180 on Alex Cooper just because of her

7:55

marriage. I didn't

7:57

do that. And. The

8:00

surprises continue because it's white woman

8:02

o'clock on this show today. We're

8:06

talking about another blonde

8:08

influencer with a very

8:10

particular way of speaking

8:12

and some questionable views.

8:15

I realize that could apply to

8:17

a lot of people on the

8:19

internet, so I guess you'll just have to

8:21

come back after the break to find out who it is.

8:24

Or read the show description. Regardless of your choice,

8:26

we'll be back after a short break.

8:30

Hi, y'all. Hope you're enjoying

8:32

today's show. If

8:39

this is your first time listening to Icy My, then welcome. We're

8:45

thrilled to have you here. In case

8:47

you missed it, our show comes out twice a

8:49

week on Wednesdays and Saturdays, so make sure you

8:51

never miss an episode like this past

8:53

Wednesdays where I interviewed

8:55

Steffi Cow about Roblox, the

8:57

online gaming platform that recently rolled

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out a $35 million fund for

9:03

creators. You'll definitely want to check it out.

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we're back with a listener question.

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Candace could you give me the honor

11:47

of reading this question? Could you be

11:49

my Vanna White today? Oh of

11:53

course. So this question

11:55

comes from Elizabeth who writes, hi Icy,

11:57

I love this show and I'm dying

11:59

for you. to do a

12:01

deep dive on influencer Natalia Torryonsky.

12:04

She uses the title Doctor in her bio, but

12:06

it's completely unclear whether that's a bit or what.

12:09

I find her content absolutely fascinating even when

12:11

it's irritating to me because it seems to

12:13

totally straddle the line between reality and satire.

12:16

In other words, I can't tell how sincere

12:18

she is versus how much she is intentionally

12:20

putting on a persona and how self-aware the

12:22

content is meant to be. My

12:25

gut tells me she has a solid

12:27

level of literacy and intentionality around these

12:29

things, given her being quoted in an

12:31

NPR article about influencer voice. I have

12:34

to believe that at least a major percentage

12:36

of her content is intentional parody slash satire,

12:39

but then I have moments where I'm not

12:41

so sure whether she is parodying something or

12:43

just earnestly doing it. For example, when she

12:45

talks nonsense about food. And at

12:47

the end of the day, she's clearly brilliant if

12:49

she's causing me to ponder all this so much.

12:52

Anyway, I am absolutely pleading for you to do

12:54

an episode on her, please! Your

12:56

dreams are coming true today,

12:58

Elizabeth. This is Make-A-Wish. I hadn't

13:01

heard of the good Dr. Toriansky

13:04

before this email. Had you, Candace?

13:07

The only good doctor I know is currently

13:09

on us last season over at ABC. Not

13:14

Dr. Sean Murphy. Rest in

13:16

peace. You've given us so much. Much

13:19

like Dr. Murphy, Dr. Natalia

13:22

Toriansky isn't a real doctor as far

13:24

as I can tell. From our research,

13:27

I would say though, Natalia is just

13:29

as fascinating as I'd assume Dr. Murphy

13:31

is since my only familiarity with the

13:33

good doctor team is the three minutes

13:35

I would watch after the Bachelor finished

13:38

airing. But Natalia Toriansky

13:40

or Dr. Natalia, as she's known

13:42

to her fans, is I would say a

13:45

mid-tier influencer. She has

13:47

almost 250,000 followers on TikTok and just under

13:52

50,000 on Instagram. It's

13:54

respectable, but she's no Alex Earle who

13:56

has 6.6 million followers

13:58

on TikTok and 4 million followers on TikTok. million on

14:00

Instagram. Though, Natalia does frequently get compared

14:02

to Alex, though. Alex Earl, not Alex

14:04

Cooper. There's a lot of Alex's in

14:07

this episode, presumably because

14:09

both Natalia and Alex Earl

14:11

are both beautiful, thin, white

14:13

blonde women who I believe both

14:15

live in Florida. Mm hmm. And it's funny

14:17

you mention Alex Earl because she is a

14:20

part of the call her daddy extended universe.

14:22

Alex Earl has a podcast under Alex Cooper's

14:24

network, the Unwell Network. They

14:27

have the same publicist who also reps

14:29

Zayn Malik. And they're both sort of

14:31

the same genre of white women, which

14:33

is to say they both market this

14:36

brand of authenticity that tends to present

14:38

as a bit grungy, like lean and

14:40

feminism. But instead of trying to be

14:43

adjacent to Mark Zuckerberg, they're trying to

14:45

be adjacent to Dave Portnoy, but without

14:47

the misogyny. Mm hmm. For example, Alex

14:50

Earl recently went viral for having

14:52

a dress stained with months old

14:54

vomit in her closet that she

14:56

made her friends smell. And she

14:58

later said, there was just a little bit of

15:01

puke on there. I'm not that filthy and a

15:03

hygienic. I mean, do I believe her? Who knows?

15:05

Do I think this is a lot about her

15:07

brand that she feel comfortable posting something like this?

15:10

Perhaps. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

15:12

They're both kind of unpolished

15:15

party girls who you wouldn't necessarily

15:17

be surprised to see doing coke

15:19

in the bathroom at a party,

15:22

which is a vibe. You know,

15:24

we're not there. I'm

15:26

not the DA. But

15:30

I think that impression of I would not

15:32

be surprised to see you in the bathroom

15:34

doing coke is my impression Natalia as well.

15:37

But Candace, I want to ask you a

15:39

question. Would it add a wrinkle to tell

15:41

you that Natalia's biggest clams to fame isn't

15:43

necessarily being an influencer, but making fun of them?

15:46

Oh, say more. Yeah. So

15:48

in the fall of last year,

15:50

Natalia started posting a TikTok series

15:52

called Land Influencer. If you spend

15:55

time on TikTok, you will recognize

15:57

exactly the kind of cadence that

15:59

she's satirizing. Here's one

16:01

where she makes fun of the

16:03

bland influencers morning vlog.

16:25

This next one's caption actually made

16:27

me chuckle. It says, not

16:30

me in my speed bump era. One

16:45

of my personal favorites is her

16:48

kind of sending up the weird

16:50

snack up sessions that lifestyle influencers

16:52

try to sell. Like you remember

16:54

when people were drinking balsamic vinegar

16:56

in selford and saying it was

16:58

coke? It's like that. Apologies

17:02

in advance for the mouth sounds

17:05

that you're about to hear that occur in the

17:07

video. Uh-huh. Melanie

17:09

Linsky, turn off the pod now. When

17:13

you put the parmesan on

17:15

the apple and

17:18

then, it's so good.

17:26

So most of these live in a

17:28

playlist on her profile, again, economically titled

17:31

bland influencer, which she stopped adding to

17:33

in 2023, but she hasn't given up

17:35

on making fun of influencers. Here's a

17:37

video from early April of this year

17:39

that I would say would be right

17:42

at home in her bland influencer playlist.

17:44

I'm trying the new lip gloss. Oh

17:48

my god. No way. There's

17:51

literally no way. Do you guys see that? Are

17:53

you guys seeing that? I'm obsessed. This is crazy.

17:58

Now that was a lot of videos. Before I

18:00

move on Candice, how do you feel? How

18:02

would you situate Natalia within the Alex Earl,

18:05

Alex Cooper universe? Alex squared. Alex

18:07

squared, yeah. I

18:09

mean that last video by the way

18:11

would have done numbers on Vine. Okay

18:14

I'm talking Casey Fry numbers. Ugh. Look.

18:17

To me it is pretty obvious that

18:19

these are like parodies. You know this

18:22

is a character. This is not actually

18:24

her. This is a performance. I do

18:26

think aesthetically or plastic-surgeonly speaking she does

18:28

fit right into the Alex squared universe

18:30

because unfortunately those two, Earl and Cooper,

18:32

are like some of the biggest podcasters

18:34

and influencers right now so it's almost

18:37

like Natalia is the Elvis

18:39

impersonator of the Alexes. Okay,

18:42

right? But another

18:44

wrinkle. She doesn't only make fun

18:46

of influencers. Here's a

18:48

video of her mocking people who can't

18:51

be normal around crumble cookies which are

18:53

these like social media

18:55

famous cookies that are the size of

18:57

my hand and are made in rotating

19:00

weekly flavors like galaxy brownie and confetti

19:02

milkshake and carrot cake. I think of

19:04

them as kind of like the LaVon

19:06

cookie but for the TikTok era which

19:09

of course means that they're a bit

19:12

of a linchpin for people who

19:14

are obsessed with dieting. Bro

19:16

are you eating that right now? Oh my

19:18

god. Too sweet for me. Too sweet

19:20

for me. I have like strawberries for dessert. Even strawberries like

19:22

when they're too ripe that is way too sweet for me.

19:25

Like I can't eat any bananas. Pre-diabetes is a huge issue

19:27

in America. I know it runs in

19:29

your family. Pre-diabetes

19:31

runs in your family

19:33

is such a horrible thing

19:35

to say to someone. Oh

19:38

my god. Okay,

19:40

so she's not going to

19:42

be promoting flat tummy tea. Probably

19:46

not but I would say

19:48

her relationship with food is actually quite

19:50

fascinating but before we move on to

19:52

that I think there are a few

19:54

more things important to know about Natalia.

19:57

First, here's her opinion on Nara Smith.

20:00

show topic. Nara Smith is a

20:02

whole ass comedian and y'all aren't giving her that

20:04

title but I'm about to give it to her.

20:07

She's not kidding about making the yogurt in granola

20:09

but she's kidding about like, my kids woke me

20:11

up earlier this morning and asked for this thing

20:14

that will be ready in ten hours and she

20:16

says it in a very monotone. It's

20:18

rage bait. Oh, isn't

20:20

that basically the conclusion that you and Gabby

20:22

Del Valle came to that Nara's just doing

20:24

like a bit? Yes, yes!

20:27

And because I am me and a human

20:29

being, I of course thought more highly of

20:31

Natalia because she agrees with me. The

20:34

second thing that made me kind of go,

20:37

huh, is that as Elizabeth said,

20:39

Natalia was quoted in an NPR

20:41

piece. Wait, really? Yes,

20:44

yes, about influencer voice which

20:46

is this up talky vocal

20:48

fry laden voice that's really

20:50

common on TikTok. It's the,

20:53

hi you guys, I just wanted

20:55

to pop on here and tell

20:57

you about this TikTok shop product

20:59

that I've been loving. It's so

21:01

good. A lot of

21:03

people hate it, which no surprise there. What

21:05

is surprising to me at least is

21:07

that there is some research that suggests

21:10

that it's actually great for keeping people

21:12

engaged because of the associate ending a

21:14

sentence with an upward inflection as a

21:16

sign of the speakers and them speaking

21:18

so subconsciously we're waiting for someone to

21:20

finish their sentence which is great for

21:22

influencers to get them to finish our

21:25

videos. Oh, okay. And

21:27

what did Natalia have to say about

21:29

it? Honestly, not much.

21:31

I'm going to be completely honest. My feeling

21:33

is that they interviewed her because of her

21:36

blant influencer series, which had about 23 million

21:39

views at that point. Her

21:41

quote was, it's something that a

21:43

lot of people were aware of and

21:45

perceiving, but nobody was really talking

21:48

about, which I guess is true.

21:50

I mean, it certainly helps explain why

21:52

her series did so well. Another explanation

21:54

is that people have loved making fun

21:57

of influencers since influencers became a thing.

22:00

Yeah, and I think it's a little bit of like

22:02

column A, a little bit of column B, but Elizabeth,

22:05

our listener, specifically asked about

22:07

Natalia talking nonsense about food.

22:10

What is that about? Great

22:13

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24:31

we're back. Candace, how do you

24:33

feel about seed oils? I

24:36

do not feel about seed oils. Great.

24:38

Natalia does. Okay. But

24:41

for the break, Icymylistener Elizabeth

24:44

asked why Natalia posts weird

24:46

stuff about food. And I

24:48

don't think Elizabeth is alone

24:50

here. Here's a Reddit thread

24:52

that Icymyproducer Sierra found on

24:54

the EDRecoverySnark subreddit. And

24:57

this person accused Natalia of showing,

24:59

quote, the usual orthorexic red

25:01

flags, end quote. And

25:04

orthorexia is an obsession with

25:06

healthy eating, usually via restrictive

25:08

behaviors. And this

25:11

user lists off a bunch of

25:13

things that they've noticed in her videos

25:15

that they feel give off weird vibes,

25:17

like she promotes raw milk. She

25:20

insists processed food is the

25:22

devil. She's obsessed with grass

25:24

fed pasture raised ingredients. She

25:26

calls certain oils inflammatory. She

25:28

brags about her ultra clean

25:31

diet. She's yapping about seed

25:33

oils. And

25:35

this poster keeps going and going,

25:37

citing things like Natalia making fun

25:39

of people for eating Takis, which

25:41

is code word for eating junk food. She's

25:44

apparently constantly asking her family

25:46

members if she looks fat as a

25:48

form of body checking. She called tofu too

25:51

processed. And in general, this

25:54

user feels like she has quote,

25:56

extreme mindsets about food.

26:00

I mean, off of that, I'm taking this

26:02

with a grain of salt because I

26:04

thought Natalia's whole thing is that this

26:06

is a joke, that the way she

26:08

talks about food is clearly showing her

26:11

mocking and influencer who would call tofu,

26:13

quote, to process. So is this

26:16

a case of someone maybe taking her too

26:18

seriously? So I thought so.

26:21

And then I looked in the comments and

26:23

someone brought up this video that Natalia allegedly

26:25

uploaded and then quickly deleted about

26:27

how the moon has her, quote,

26:30

body messed up. Body

26:32

is spelled B-A-W-D-Y, just for reference.

26:35

Of course, of course. Mm-hmm. Okay,

26:37

okay. Say more. So

26:39

this user claims Natalia was comparing her body to Jason

26:41

Kelcey. Jason is an NFL player

26:43

who just retired. He is the brother of Travis

26:45

Kelcey, who, as we all know, is dating a

26:47

certain pop star who will not be named on

26:50

this episode. Jason went viral

26:52

for going shirtless in the stands and looking

26:54

like a bear. Anyway, Natalia

26:56

says no offense to Jason Kelcey, but

26:58

he has a beer gut and she does too. One

27:01

of my pet peeves about people talking about

27:03

athlete's bodies is the assumption that because you're a

27:05

high level athlete that you won't have a

27:08

stomach because people associate flat stomachs with health.

27:10

And it's like, actually, no. Sometimes the

27:12

best thing you can have for

27:14

your particular job is a belly.

27:16

Anyway, Natalia says, I

27:19

haven't eaten all day and I still have

27:21

this gut, which means this

27:23

is the moon's fault. And

27:26

this Reddit user was basically accusing her of trying

27:28

to get people in the comments to validate that

27:30

she was still skinny, which they

27:33

did. And on top of that,

27:35

people allegedly started commenting their own

27:37

beliefs that the moon does indeed

27:39

make them fat. Okay,

27:42

okay, okay. So we have

27:44

moon allegations. We have Jason

27:46

Kelcey, beer belly allegations. And

27:49

once again, I am left asking the question,

27:51

if that video was indeed

27:54

posted and deleted, was it real? Like,

27:56

was she being serious? I want

27:58

to say no, but because it's a little bit of a joke, I'm not going to say

28:00

it. I can't really have an opinion on it, but

28:03

let's take a look at other videos that are still

28:05

up, where she talks

28:07

about things that are, I would

28:09

say serious, but in the same

28:11

kind of tone that she's using in her bland

28:14

influencer series, which

28:16

is confusing, I'll say. Here's

28:19

a TikTok where Natalia is talking about fossil

28:21

fuels, carbon emissions, and potato

28:23

chips. What about greenhouse gas

28:25

emissions? What about animal agriculture investing in

28:28

greenhouse gas emissions? It's polluting the earth, it's a

28:30

massive pollute, and it's destroying the earth. Everyone's

28:33

concerned about the carbon footprint of beef, which accounts

28:35

for 2% of greenhouse gas emissions.

28:37

If people are really concerned about emissions in

28:39

food, they help people to stop eating potato

28:41

chips, which are the number one producer of

28:43

greenhouse gases when it comes to food. How

28:46

about them apples? So

28:48

this is where we get into the

28:50

whole is she being serious conversation, because

28:53

in this video, what I think she's

28:55

trying to say is that if you

28:57

are someone who is angry about carbon

28:59

emissions produced by the agricultural sector, specifically

29:02

beef producers, which a lot of people

29:04

are, fairly, but also

29:06

maybe choose your target more

29:08

wisely, because fossil fuels created

29:10

via transportation are causing more

29:12

carbon emissions. And if you're

29:14

still specifically concerned about carbon

29:16

emissions from the ag sector,

29:19

then don't just be angry at

29:21

beef producers. Also be angry

29:23

about rice production, or also be angry

29:26

about potato chip production, which according to

29:28

Natalia, has the biggest carbon footprint of

29:30

any food. Natalia ends this

29:32

video by saying, how about them apples? Which

29:35

was that a pun? I don't know. The

29:38

thing is after hours of looking at Natalia's

29:40

content, I'm not 100% sure if she's

29:42

saying, look

29:45

at all these facts I dropped that

29:48

I believe. Or she's saying, look at

29:50

the crazy stupid stuff influenced her spew

29:52

on this app. Yeah, and

29:54

there are people in the comments fact checking

29:56

her. They're kind of like, okay, but when

29:59

I Googled it, It's I before the

30:01

number one food with the highest carbon

30:03

footprint. not chess. I feel like I'm

30:05

on your side. But so let's get

30:07

back to the question. Do. He thinks

30:09

he's joking. At

30:11

this point I almost wonder if it

30:13

doesn't matter in terms of her instead

30:15

of posting the video because the tone.

30:18

Of. Voice of her concert that suggests

30:20

use exaggerating or trying to connect dots

30:22

that weren't meant to be connected just

30:24

means that when see posts things were

30:27

may be signed to be serious were

30:29

all like that is that It Joe

30:31

is real. But to

30:33

give a point to the parity. Believers

30:36

I want to bring up this

30:38

clip of her talking about raw

30:40

milk and you tell me if

30:42

she's being serious on the nothing

30:44

about rug rats. Sad dairy milk

30:46

first thing in the morning on

30:48

the nothing about a brass said

30:50

col. Know

30:53

herbicide laden woman. Was

30:56

and of water animals and

30:58

served. As mix in.

31:00

Real? Not right. There.

31:03

Is a common on a video that

31:06

speaks directly to my lactose intolerant heart

31:08

and it reads Queen Respectfully. I.

31:10

Do not feel like sitting my pants at

31:12

seven am. Fair

31:15

valid I see you and

31:17

the tires. Response is. It's

31:21

it's it's. something. Natalia

31:23

raise your system will likely

31:25

tolerate raw. Milk Much better

31:28

than standard pasteurized milk, which

31:30

has it's nutrients and enzymes

31:32

destroyed during processing. A

31:37

So. According

31:39

to help.com it is technically true

31:41

that the pasteurization process which in

31:43

both heating milk to a high

31:45

temperature to kill. Pathogens like salmonella

31:47

cool I Listeria things you don't

31:49

want in your stomach. It can

31:52

lower the person as of vitamins

31:54

thousand milk but health.com. Says quote

31:56

the overall effect of pasteurization.

31:58

On most nutritional value as. Animal: Many

32:00

of the. Vitamins are naturally

32:02

found and relatively low level

32:05

anyways and importantly. Before.

32:07

Pasteurization of com and

32:09

milk related illnesses constituted

32:11

approximately twenty five. Percent of

32:14

all disease outbreaks. Ah, and

32:16

now it's less than one

32:18

percent Salt Lake. Of that.

32:20

I'm a fan of pasteurization.

32:24

But maybe even more importantly for this

32:26

episode, a toy doesn't even drink. Raw

32:28

milk anymore? The wrong but video we played

32:30

with from January twenty twenty three. In March

32:33

of this he or she posted a video

32:35

of her Whole Foods Hall which included arm

32:37

and moloch yes I pronounce that crack. Wheat

32:39

Malt is a brand of plant based melts

32:41

that doesn't have any filler ever added ever

32:43

gone. So it's it's I guess the raw

32:46

form of almond milk that you can make

32:48

without to sing your own home and I

32:50

don't know harm and look have made. Wow.

32:54

Okay, so what's the raw milk

32:56

thing? Just a bit. A

32:59

bit. Of phase. Color.

33:01

Will You was over. It seems

33:04

like Natalia is a woman of

33:06

both strongly held and fleeting convictions,

33:08

which is very confusing as a

33:11

viewer. Yeah. I

33:13

knew it after this deep dive and

33:15

to Natalia contact I asked didn't like

33:17

her like to see have earnest followers

33:19

who ride for her odyssey seem to

33:21

straddle that like eighty twenty line of

33:24

heat waters. The actual followers. See

33:26

that we have real fans. I

33:28

would say most of her fans

33:30

like her. They call her doctor

33:32

him as a bit. They're all

33:34

in on it. They take on

33:36

her vocal inflections like adding young

33:38

girl Oriana the end of other

33:40

birds like blog yonker or a

33:42

Cowgirl Yonkers with isn't specific Senate

33:44

High or her fans and which

33:47

I cannot comfortably trace the origins.

33:49

Of but at be like might have further. Than

33:51

the queer community and then filtered down. But

33:53

all to say, I'd say most of her

33:55

audience is on her side. The keep asking

33:57

her questions like where do you think about

33:59

people who avoids. fruits because of sugar.

34:02

Right, which kind of brings up this

34:04

other question, which is, even if her

34:06

posts are meant to mock wellness influencers

34:08

or meant to be funny, should

34:11

we be at all concerned

34:13

that she is possibly spreading

34:16

misinformation? Because we are speaking

34:18

on the same week that President Joe Biden signed

34:20

the TikTok ban bill and while that's been going

34:22

on, TikTok updated their community

34:24

guidelines and said that they're going

34:26

to start cracking down on content

34:29

that may promote disordered eating, dangerous

34:31

weight loss habits, potentially harmful weight

34:33

management products. So even if this

34:35

is a farce, does that include

34:38

Dr. Natalia? That's

34:41

a complicated question and I feel it

34:43

kind of gets into the ethics of

34:45

posting and having a platform and blah,

34:48

blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, could write

34:50

a whole book about this. Yeah, I

34:52

will say Natalia's content other than the

34:54

raw milk stuff, she promotes eating like

34:56

full fat dairy. She's like, please eat

34:58

your fats. Stop taking fats out of

35:01

your diet. It's actually not helping you

35:03

at all. So some of the

35:05

things that she says, I'm like, okay, you get

35:07

it. And then some of the things she says,

35:09

I'm like, what is going

35:11

on here? So

35:14

I guess what I'll say is if you

35:16

can safely categorize the majority of

35:19

an influencer's content as a

35:21

joke, which I think we

35:23

can do with Natalia, maybe

35:25

don't take health advice from

35:27

them. Like, I'm

35:29

not taking mental health advice from Dr.

35:31

Fraser Crane because he's on a sitcom,

35:33

you know? Yeah,

35:36

I think that's a very good way to live

35:39

life. Yes. So

35:41

that is Natalia, the not

35:43

doctor and her weird food vibe.

35:46

But let's talk about this performance or

35:48

this character she's putting on, which I

35:50

think is meant to mock TikTok plays.

35:53

Yeah. So I would say for the

35:55

past maybe six years, there's kind of

35:58

been this dialect shift online. with the

36:00

advent of not only TikTok, but also

36:02

podcasts where people just sound like uncanny

36:04

Valley versions of The Valley Girl. And

36:06

we've been playing it throughout this entire

36:08

episode, but I actually want to highlight

36:11

that NPR segment you mentioned because it

36:13

starts with this really funny bit where

36:16

Morning Edition host Steve Inskeep tries

36:18

to do a TikTok voice impression.

36:21

Hi there. It's Steve

36:23

Inskeep. I

36:25

just wanted to hop on here and say a few things.

36:29

The way I'm talking now is

36:31

the way some content creators speak

36:34

on TikTok and it's known as

36:36

influencer speak or TikTok voice. It's

36:38

a combination of talk where

36:41

you sound like a question when it's

36:43

not a question. And the other element

36:46

is vocal fry. So

36:48

I first want to ask you, Rachel, what

36:50

is your take on TikTok voice? Does it exist? Does

36:52

it bother you? Do we have it? Well,

36:55

first, I don't think I ever had

36:57

the thought that TikTok voice was

36:59

a learned skill until I heard Steve

37:01

Inskeep trying to do an impression of

37:03

it. So

37:06

I would say based on that that

37:08

I think TikTok voice exists, but I

37:10

think it's more complicated than one singular

37:13

voice, if that makes sense. Like the

37:15

influencers Natalia is making fun of don't

37:17

sound like book talk influencers who don't

37:19

sound like cooking influencers, et

37:22

cetera, et cetera, et cetera. The accent

37:24

we're talking about sounds to me a

37:26

lot like a variation of the YouTube

37:28

voice to me. You know, hi, guys,

37:30

welcome to my channel. Today we're going

37:32

to be unboxing except more

37:35

informal, I guess is the

37:37

word that I'm reaching for. It doesn't

37:39

really bother me, but quite frankly, I've

37:41

never gotten an alz-irl TikTok on my

37:43

for you page. So I actually don't

37:45

think I encounter this voice that often.

37:48

And then do we have it? I think

37:52

that's for our audience to decide from

37:54

within the comforts of their home and

37:56

not in my inbox because I don't

37:58

need any more comments. commentary on

38:00

what my voice sounds like from people I don't know. Yeah,

38:03

yeah. And what

38:05

I find funny about this like TikTok

38:07

voice conversation is that I think there

38:10

is a pretty clear lineage between Valley

38:12

Girl voice to TikTok voice because if

38:14

female bodies have eras, I guess female

38:17

voices have eras and all of these

38:19

eras are variations of vocal fry or

38:21

uptick. That's when you kind of

38:23

end sentences as questions instead of periods. And

38:26

this general lackadaisical slurred

38:29

pronunciation that honestly was

38:32

probably popularized by the

38:34

Kardashians. Right. And

38:37

then every woman who's spoken anything

38:40

but a monotone got charged with

38:42

sounding like a Kardashian. Exactly.

38:44

Like every on-air female journalist has probably

38:46

gotten an angry email from a listener

38:48

saying like, hi, please stop with the

38:51

vocal fry. It's annoying. It's

38:53

unserious. And once he realizes emails were

38:55

like overwhelmingly targeting women, it became

38:58

this question of like, is the sexist is accusing

39:00

someone of vocal fry code for you sound

39:02

like a woman. I don't want to hear it. I

39:04

don't take you seriously. And I don't think the Kardashians

39:06

becoming the face of it helped. I

39:09

mean, they're unserious people. So definitely not.

39:12

Yeah. Yeah. I've been

39:14

wondering about TikTok voice when it comes

39:16

to our chosen medium podcast, because let's

39:18

be honest, have you ever caught yourself

39:21

speaking in the same intonation or borrowing

39:23

phrases from the host of your favorite

39:25

podcast or maybe an influencer or YouTube

39:28

you loved? Are you talking like Zoella

39:30

in 2024? Probably.

39:34

I mean, this is not an uncommon

39:37

phenomenon. How many people do we know

39:39

that work at our organization that love

39:41

Michael Barbaro's little isms, right? Here's

39:44

the thing. I am not

39:46

innocent because I will say that

39:48

there is a film podcast that

39:50

I listen to regularly where one

39:52

of the co-hosts always starts their

39:54

sentences with. And

39:56

I've caught myself doing that, like literally in scripts and

39:58

her co-host has kind of. to become notorious for

40:01

using the phrase, we're so back and I've

40:03

used that phrase in my daily life a

40:05

lot, but I think this

40:07

is just an example of how language

40:09

has a way of kind of like

40:11

rotating through circles of people in these

40:13

small, jargony ways that not only show

40:15

how unconsciously people take in language, but

40:18

also how you are using them as

40:20

identity markers, because for example, when

40:22

someone refers to January 6th as

40:24

stop the steal, you

40:27

know exactly who they voted for. You

40:30

know who they follow on Instagram, because only certain people

40:32

who believe certain things are using that phrase. But

40:35

I wanna ask you about TikTok Voice for a second, because

40:37

it's one thing to name it, but is it bad for

40:40

us? Like is this bad for Jen Alpha, who will one

40:42

day need to ask for a raise

40:44

or stand up for themselves in the face of an

40:46

already misogynist society? Can they go up to their boss

40:48

and go, hey guys, so I wanna

40:51

do a raise? Well,

40:54

I'm glad you brought up that NPR segment,

40:56

because they interviewed a speech language

40:59

pathologist named Laura Purcell-Verdon,

41:01

who said that TikTok Voice

41:03

evokes youthfulness, which I actually

41:05

think is the main reason

41:07

why people use it, even

41:10

if they're not consciously thinking

41:12

that. They sound young, they

41:14

wanna sound fun, they wanna sound like they're

41:16

in the streets. Right,

41:20

and another person they interviewed was the

41:22

creator at Etymology Nerd,

41:24

who called this voice a,

41:27

quote, prestige dialect. It's

41:29

the HBO of dialects. And he

41:31

said there's probably a more intentional reason why

41:33

it's become popular, specifically on

41:36

TikTok. This is where the influencer

41:38

action deviates from its origins in the valid relaxation,

41:40

because the valid relaxation would never stress makeup brands,

41:42

but the influencers try to constantly keep your attention,

41:44

so they employ a technique called macroprosity, or using

41:46

more tones than necessary. They'll also frequently lengthen their

41:49

vowels to emphasize certain key words or just spill

41:51

dead space. And this is the same thing that

41:53

Sesame Street is doing when they say stuff like,

41:55

let's learn our ABCs. They

41:58

emphasize certain letters as a floor holding tactic. to

42:00

capture sojourn's attention, and influencers are doing the same

42:02

thing with your attention when they stress certain words.

42:05

Now let me ask you this Rachel, do you

42:07

personally interact with a lot of people in real

42:09

life who speak like this? I

42:11

don't think so,

42:13

but honestly having

42:15

this job has made me realize

42:18

that I pay far less attention

42:20

to the way people talk than

42:22

others do. I mean I'm

42:24

tone deaf musically, I think I'm also tone

42:26

deaf accent wise, unless

42:28

you're speaking in a biu accent,

42:30

I'm a bit like alright cool

42:32

let's keep going. Yeah yeah yeah

42:34

you thought I was Australian this whole time. I did, I

42:36

did, I did, I did. I thought you were Troye

42:38

Sivan. Yeah

42:42

I mean for me you know

42:44

I'm from Southern California, the birthplace

42:47

of the Valley Girl accent, and

42:49

I always notice non-California people speaking

42:51

to me like this,

42:53

and so I've always thought that the

42:56

Valley Girl voice uptick TikTok voice, I've

42:58

always thought those were not regional accents but

43:00

generational accents, like I always associate Valley Girl

43:02

voice with the 2000s Paris Hilton Dussek

43:05

Couture jumpsuit era, and I think as

43:07

more and more people use the internet

43:09

as their main source of community and

43:11

socialization, it is more likely that a

43:13

person in Delaware who identifies as Gen Z

43:15

will sound exactly like someone from LA who

43:18

also identifies as Gen Z. I think that

43:20

stratification of TikTok speak is really

43:22

just a bonding agent, like if someone speaks to you like

43:24

this in real life, you can probably tell

43:26

that they're online a lot, like I can kind

43:28

of tell what you listen to and who you

43:30

watch just by how you speak. Right there was

43:32

this phenomenon that started during the

43:34

pandemic where these people started noticing it

43:36

during the pandemic where British children who

43:38

are watching a lot of American content

43:41

started pronouncing certain words in American accents

43:43

because they were consuming so much American

43:45

content, and the other way around I

43:47

think a lot of American children who

43:50

watch British children

43:52

content, exactly they start

43:54

taking on these intonations, exactly

43:56

it's so fascinating I feel

43:58

like mimicking is kind

44:01

of the vocalization of your media diet,

44:03

you can tell what you're watching or

44:05

listening to based on the way you

44:07

talk. I do feel

44:09

like, you know, we should ask the big

44:11

question, which is, should we try

44:14

to move away from TikTok voice? Should we avoid

44:16

it? Does any of this matter now that TikTok

44:18

is allegedly banned? Well,

44:21

the speech pathologist, Laura Purcell-Verdon, told NPR

44:23

that if you have TikTok voice and

44:25

you wanna get rid of it, first

44:27

ask yourself, why do you wanna get

44:29

rid of it in the first place?

44:32

Then listen to yourself on a

44:34

recording. And if you're coming across the way

44:36

you intend and your message is being received correctly, then

44:38

no adjustment needs to be made.

44:41

But personally, I don't begrudge it.

44:43

Like if someone is annoyed by your voice that is

44:46

their problem, not yours, unless you're doing some like weird

44:48

30 Rock sexy baby thing, it just doesn't bother me.

44:50

And I'll say this, I

44:52

am guilty of mimicking influencers in my daily life

44:54

too, because for example, and Rachel, please tell me

44:56

if you've picked up on this. I

44:59

start all of our Zoom meetings with, hey guys.

45:01

Because I'm a Chamberlain, it wasn't a vlog, where she

45:04

like logged onto a Zoom meeting and it sounded like

45:06

welcoming and confident. And like I owned a coffee company

45:08

and I just wanted to show up like that. I

45:10

wanted to show up for you like that. And it

45:13

kind of also hits at this thing where like, I hate

45:15

when you log onto a Zoom and like no one knows

45:17

who's supposed to be talking, so no one talks. So I

45:20

do that all the time where I'm like, hey guys, to

45:22

like break the ice and then I'll just like find something

45:24

to talk about. So hey guys is my vocal

45:26

fry. I mean,

45:28

I guess that means that all that's left to say

45:30

is, bye guys. Okay,

45:36

that's the show. We'll be back in

45:39

your feed on Wednesday, so definitely subscribe.

45:41

That way you never miss an episode.

45:44

Leave us a rating and a review in Apple

45:46

or Spotify and tell your friends about us. You

45:49

can follow us on Twitter at ICYMI

45:51

underscore pod and you can always drop

45:53

us a note at ICYMI at slate.com.

45:57

ICYMI is produced by Sarah

45:59

Spraguely-Ricks. Candice Lim and me

46:01

Rachel Hampton and special thanks to

46:03

Olivia Briley for all of your

46:05

work on today's episode. Daisy Rosario

46:07

is our senior supervising producer and

46:09

Alicia Montgomery is sleep vice president

46:11

of audio. See you online or

46:14

on moon talk.