0:00

Hi,

0:07

I'm Chelsea Clinton, and this is in fact,

0:10

a podcast about why public health matters

0:13

even when we're not in a pandemic. Today

0:15

we're talking about environmental justice. Recently

0:18

on this podcast, we talked to activists

0:20

Jane Fonda and Atlanta mayor Keisha Lance

0:23

Bottoms about the global public health

0:25

crisis that is climate change. Compounding

0:28

that crisis is another one, environmental

0:31

racism. For years,

0:33

Black Americans, Latino communities,

0:35

Native Americans, Asian Americans,

0:37

and Pacific Islanders have all

0:40

been disproportionately impacted by environmental

0:42

hazards, including toxic waste dumps,

0:45

landfills, oil refineries,

0:47

fracking, chemical manufacturers,

0:49

and more. In fact, one report found

0:52

that more than half of the people living within

0:54

less than two miles of toxic waste

0:56

facilities in the United States are

0:58

people of color. This

1:01

isn't an accident or a coincidence.

1:03

It's the result of policy choices, corporate

1:06

practices, and deliberate actions.

1:09

The environmental justice movement is fighting

1:11

back against environmental racism

1:13

and for climate justice. It

1:15

was started and is led by advocates, primarily

1:18

people of color, who are determined to build

1:20

communities and a country where it's

1:22

possible to live, work, go

1:24

to school, and spend time outside

1:27

without getting sick. Today, I'm

1:29

talking with three people I deeply admire. We'll

1:31

hear from Juan Paras, founder of Tajas,

1:34

an organization standing up to the powerful

1:36

oil and gas industry in his hometown of Houston,

1:38

Texas. I'll be talking with Secretary of

1:41

the Interior Dev Holland, the first

1:43

Native American to serve as a cabinet secretary,

1:46

who was responsible for our public lands.

1:49

But first I'm talking with my good friend

1:51

Dr monahana Atisha. In

1:55

April, the city of Flint,

1:57

Michigan, a Black majority city, change

2:00

its water source. This seemingly

2:02

simple act sparked one of the biggest environmental

2:04

health crisis in recent memory when

2:06

it was discovered that water from the new source

2:09

was croating the lead pipes in Flint,

2:11

causing lead to be in

2:13

the water. Now, for anyone who

2:16

may not know, there is no safe

2:18

level of exposure to lead. Drinking

2:20

or bathing in water that contains lead can

2:22

lead to serious and long term health

2:24

challenges, especially for kids. Well,

2:27

Flint may not be in the headlines every day, the

2:29

people who live in Flint are still very

2:31

much living with the effects of this crisis

2:34

every day. No one knows that better

2:36

than Dr monahana Atsha, a pediatrician

2:39

in Flint. Dr Mona, as she's

2:41

known by her patients, was one of the people who

2:43

spoke out early and forcefully about

2:45

what was happening in Flint and why it was

2:47

a crisis. I so admire

2:50

her bravery and was honored to talk

2:52

to her about her experiences in Flint and

2:54

the lessons we should apply to our current public

2:56

health crisis. Hi. Dr Mona,

2:58

thank you for being here. Chelsea.

3:01

It's it's great to connect with you. I I sincerely

3:03

enjoy these opportunities. We

3:06

met in February of when

3:09

I was there in Flint with

3:11

you as part of my mom's campaign, and

3:13

yet very much felt like I was there as a

3:15

mom. My daughter Charlotte was

3:18

not even too and I was quite pregnant with

3:20

my son Aidan, and

3:23

it just was so horrifying

3:26

to me in every part of my

3:28

heart that we had so

3:31

failed parents and kids

3:33

in Flint. While I know there

3:36

was a saturation of news about Flint five

3:39

years ago, could you just give a

3:41

brief overview of what happened

3:44

before the water crisis, What famously

3:47

did Flint bring to our nation cars

3:50

cars. So Flint was the birthplace of cars,

3:52

and even more than the birthlace of cars, was

3:55

also the birthplace of the middle class in America.

3:57

Because of some amazing kind of resistance organizing

4:00

by auto workers in the nineteen thirties, they

4:03

went on strike. It was called the strike

4:05

that was heard around the world, to sit down strikes.

4:08

They were demanding things like living wages

4:10

and benefits and healthcare and occupational

4:12

safety and the chance to be part

4:14

of the prosperity of that industry, and

4:17

amazingly they won. So then

4:19

for the first time, really working people got access

4:21

to things like living wages and

4:24

weekends and benefits, and Flint

4:26

became this promised land.

4:29

It's hard to believe, but not even not long ago. In nineteen

4:31

seventies, Flynt had the highest per capita

4:34

income in the country, and thus

4:36

it became this place where immigrants from all

4:38

the world came. African Americans

4:40

and the great migration North came to Flint in

4:42

places like Flint for opportunity

4:44

and prosperity. Not necessarily always equality,

4:47

but you know, better than the Jim Crow South. And

4:50

then through purposeful policy decisions

4:52

like racist real estate practices

4:54

redlining and block busting and decreased

4:56

revenue sharing and white fly and

4:59

all these thing is that happened also not unique

5:01

to Flint. Flint became a

5:04

victim of extreme capitalism.

5:06

Jobs were lost, plants closed,

5:09

and the people who had the power and the privilege

5:11

to leave the city left the city.

5:13

And that left Flint segregated,

5:15

and it left Flint almost bankrupt as

5:17

a city because the city relied on its

5:19

tax base for its services. In

5:22

two thousand eleven, Flint got taken

5:24

over by the state, so we were under something

5:26

called emergency management. Yeah,

5:28

but that's an important point. Flint was living

5:30

under direct control by the state

5:32

so effectively like not the

5:35

mayor or the council that

5:37

they would have voted for, and that by

5:40

fourteen, half of Michigan, right

5:42

was like living under emergency management.

5:44

Yeah, half of the African American population

5:47

of the state was under emergency management compared

5:49

to two percent of the white population. So

5:51

there was actually national media on the

5:53

story before we were anything of a water

5:55

story, but when we were just a democracy story.

5:58

And so it was those emergency managers

6:00

that reported to the governor that decided

6:03

that to save money they would change

6:05

our water source from the Great Lakes

6:07

to the Flint River, and we had been getting

6:09

high quality fresh water from Lake Huron for

6:12

you know, close to a century. And

6:14

in April of two thousand fourteen, the decision

6:17

was made in an effort to save money,

6:19

and our our former mayor, who had no power,

6:21

and a bunch of men and suites went on TV and

6:23

they pressed a button and they toasted

6:26

with our new water, and that toasted

6:28

not Harold good tidings. Can

6:30

you just explain a little bit more about

6:33

why it didn't Harold good Tidings, because for

6:35

people who might be listening, you think, well,

6:37

all fresh water is the same, not all

6:40

fresh water is the same, and not all

6:42

pipes are the same. Our

6:45

water was switched in April of two fourteen,

6:47

and there was problems right away, color and odor

6:49

and taste, and there was bacteria, and then we had

6:52

boil advisories and then they put a out of chlorine

6:54

to kill the bacteria, and people felt like

6:56

they were drinking a glass of bleach or showering

6:58

in a swimming pools. Lots of red flags

7:01

from the beginning, but the most important

7:03

thing that caused our our water to

7:05

be unsafe was that it wasn't being treated

7:08

properly. Corrosion control

7:10

was not added to the water treatment, and

7:13

that made our water in Flint

7:15

about twenty times more corrosive

7:17

than the water from the Great Lakes. And

7:20

I want to share one of my favorite stories about science

7:22

denial. So we had a group of fourth graders,

7:24

a fourth grade class in the Flint area collected

7:27

Flint water and they collected Great Lakes

7:29

water from Detroit. And they

7:31

had a question. They're like, well, I wonder what the difference

7:33

is. They put nails in each

7:35

of the different waters, and they noticed,

7:37

oh my gosh, the nail and the Flint water

7:40

was actually corroding twenty times

7:42

faster than the nails in the Great

7:44

Lakes water. That corrosive water

7:47

ate up our pipes. And when that

7:49

report came out from our fourth graders, the

7:51

state said that the science was too complicated

7:54

and too expensive and they couldn't have done

7:56

that or known that, and it would have cost

7:58

a hundred dollars a day

8:00

to add the antigrus of treatment. It's

8:03

unreal other day for the whole city,

8:05

right, not like per household or

8:07

per zip code, the whole

8:10

city. And how many examples do

8:12

we need about the cost of prevention.

8:14

Prevention is so much more cost

8:17

effective than treatment. I

8:20

love the words of Frederick Douglas, who

8:22

a hundred fifty years ago said it's easier

8:24

to build strong children than

8:26

to repair broken men. And

8:28

it's it's timely here, like if we had

8:31

only treated this water properly,

8:33

if we had only invested in the

8:35

proactive preventative measures, we

8:37

wouldn't be spending all these resources and

8:39

time in terms of treatment right now. And

8:42

so when do you spoke about the fourth graders?

8:44

And I hope that my children you

8:47

are as curious and precocious

8:50

and kind of justice driven when they're

8:52

old enough to be in fourth grade. When

8:54

did you first realize something

8:56

was wrong with the water? That's

8:59

a great question, and it's one of my biggest

9:01

regrets is that I didn't realize

9:03

something was wrong earlier. It

9:05

was almost a year and a half after the water

9:08

switched when I heard about the possibility

9:10

of lead being in the water. I'd

9:12

heard about the color and the odor and the bacteria

9:15

and the water advisories. And after all of these red

9:17

flags that happened, there was reassurance

9:19

by the folks in charge that everything is okay.

9:22

So you know, I was also reassuring

9:24

my patients for about a year and a half. When

9:26

they had concerns about the water safety. That

9:28

all changed for me. And I can remember

9:30

the exact moment. It was the end of

9:32

August of two thousand fifteen, and

9:35

it was not in my clinic. It was not with a patient.

9:37

It was in my home with a high

9:39

school girlfriend. And my high school girlfriend,

9:42

of all things, had gone on to become

9:44

a drinking water expert. And she was

9:46

at my house. She had just been back to Michigan. Our kids

9:48

were playing, they were screaming in the background. She

9:51

cornered me in the kitchen and she's

9:53

like, Mona, have you heard about what's going on in

9:55

Flint with the water? And I'm like, oh, yeah, they know

9:57

there's concerns, but the folks in charge everything

10:00

it is okay. And she shared with me that

10:02

she had just seen a memo from her former

10:04

colleague at the e p A that said

10:07

that the water wasn't being treated

10:09

with this important ingredient corrosion

10:11

control, and because of that, there would be

10:13

lead in the water. And

10:15

when I heard the word lead, that's

10:18

when I stopped sleeping. That's when I stopped eating.

10:20

That's when my diet just consisted

10:23

of coffee for the next several months.

10:25

That's when my quest began to

10:27

find out what was happening to the children.

10:29

Because when anybody here's the

10:31

word lead, it's a call to action. That's

10:34

when my life changed. We'll

10:39

be right back, stay with us. Can

10:53

you just talk a little bit about why it's a called

10:55

action for you as a pediatrician and

10:57

as a scientist, for people

11:00

who may know that lead isn't

11:02

good for us, but may not understand

11:05

just how dangerous lead is

11:07

to anyone, but especially to kids

11:10

and to kids brains. Lead is

11:12

probably the oldest and most well

11:14

studied neural toxin. There's

11:17

no safe level of lead. Zero

11:19

impacts cognition, so it impacts

11:21

how kids think. It actually lowers i Q

11:24

levels. It impacts behavior, leading

11:26

to things like developmental disabilities,

11:28

attention problems, focusing problems.

11:31

Blood exposure has also been linked to things like criminality

11:33

and oppositional defined disorders.

11:36

We also now know that childhood exposure

11:38

to lead can manifest much later

11:40

in life with things like high blood pressure

11:42

and early dementia and kidney disease

11:45

and gout, and the really bad

11:47

thing about lead. It's invisible,

11:50

it's silent lead and water. You can't

11:52

see, you can't taste. Your house could

11:54

be beautiful and clean, and

11:56

if you still have lead underneath layers of pain

11:58

or in the dust, you'll still be exposed.

12:01

What are you doing in Flint? And what

12:03

do you think other people who

12:06

might be concerned about kids

12:08

exposure to lead could be doing in their communities.

12:11

You know, for so long I wanted to believe

12:14

that I could like write a prescription that

12:16

could take this away, but that doesn't exist.

12:18

There's there's no magic pill that can take

12:20

away what happened. But there is a lot

12:23

that we can do and that we are doing to

12:25

limit the impact of this exposure.

12:28

We are also leaning on the incredible

12:30

science of child development to

12:32

put into place everything that kids need

12:34

to be healthy and successful. What

12:37

helps kids, What helps kids thrive. It's

12:39

a lot of parenting support, high quality

12:42

prenatal care and access to a medical

12:44

home. It's high quality early childhood

12:46

education. It's it's home visiting. It's

12:48

literacy support, its transportation

12:51

access, it's good nutrition. This is basic,

12:53

fundamental things that all kids

12:55

need. But our kids in Flint didn't

12:57

have that, and kids all over then

13:00

wake up to some of those same conditions

13:02

that make it impossible for them to be healthy

13:05

and successful. And I'm not naive

13:07

to think that all these efforts for children

13:09

is enough. We're also trying to address the

13:11

bigger things, like living wage

13:13

jobs for their parents. We have an almost

13:16

seventy percent child poverty rate and

13:18

Flint like that's not okay.

13:20

These are also really critical factors

13:23

to make sure that communities can be healthy

13:25

and thrive. Do you think

13:27

the Flint water crisis would have happened in an arbor?

13:31

No, and your mom said that right away, it

13:33

never would have happened. It never would have happened

13:35

in a richer or wider community.

13:37

People who are poor, people of

13:39

color, disproportionately, they're the burden

13:42

of environmental contamination. Can

13:44

we talk about environmental racism?

13:47

But also, as you mentioned, that environmental

13:50

impacts or maybe the mismanagement

13:52

and the exploitation of the environment almost

13:55

heavily on kids of color and our country,

13:57

and especially black kids. Flint

14:00

absolutely wasn't the first example of

14:02

environmental racism. Thirty years

14:04

ago, I was in a classroom looking

14:06

at maps that showed, oh my

14:08

gosh, this community has more exposure

14:11

to environmental contamination than this community.

14:13

This is the science they know it's it's the

14:15

placement of polluting refineries

14:18

and trash burning incinerators and

14:20

dumps. You know, they're predominantly in these minority

14:23

communities. This has been going on for

14:25

decades and the science

14:27

is absolutely clear in

14:29

regards to the burden of this environmental

14:32

contamination. And I'm grateful

14:34

that Flynn has been able to shine a big spotlight

14:36

on this issue. As we come up

14:39

with our anti racist plans,

14:41

as we actively work to address

14:43

these long standing systemic injustices, things

14:46

like lead elimination, safe

14:48

housing, they need to be at the top of the

14:50

list. So I'm hopeful, but

14:52

we need action to follow. We need the robust

14:55

capacity and environmental agencies

14:57

at the e p A, but also at the state level

14:59

to full because on environmental justice.

15:01

Every state needs an environmental justice

15:03

department. So there's a lot more that

15:05

we could do to actively address

15:07

these longstanding and systemic injustices.

15:10

And when in our last few minutes, I do want to

15:12

talk about COVID. I know that

15:15

you have both been a COVID

15:17

patient and a COVID caregiver

15:19

as a doctor. Could you talk a

15:21

little bit about your personal experiences

15:24

with COVID and those different those different

15:26

ways that you've been in the in the center of

15:28

this crisis too. The biggest lessons

15:30

for me in regards to COVID are

15:33

the parallels to Flint, the same lessons

15:35

that we learned in Flint in terms of good governance

15:37

and science and public health and

15:39

equity that need to be addressed,

15:42

and that, if anything, what we learned

15:44

in Flint and what we've done in Michigan can

15:46

really serve as a playbook on how to move forward,

15:49

how to elect leaders who value

15:51

public health, how to have decisions that are

15:53

driven by science, how to proactively

15:56

invest in public health infrastructure,

15:59

and how to call lowed in equities

16:01

and then actively address in equities. For example,

16:03

in Michigan, quite quickly we created

16:05

a racial disparity tax force for COVID,

16:08

and because of the active efforts of that task

16:10

force, we've been able to lessen those

16:12

disparities. We cannot

16:14

regard this as a one off, just like Flint

16:16

wasn't a one off. Oh that was that one city over

16:19

there that didn't treat its bad properly. Know, the

16:21

lessons of Flint are everywhere. They're

16:23

continue to be communities that are suffering

16:25

the exact same injustices where the potential

16:28

of their children are also best predicted

16:30

by things like zip code. That's throughout

16:32

this nation and we can absolutely do better,

16:35

and COVID must be that opportunity

16:37

for us to think big, to reimagine,

16:40

and to do better, especially on behalf of our most

16:42

vulnerable. Dr Bona, thank

16:45

you for being here and I hope to see you in

16:47

person as soon as it's safe soon.

16:50

Thank you. I can't wait to give you a hug. Dr

16:53

Mona has written about the Flint water crisis

16:55

in her excellent book But the Eyes

16:58

don't see a story of crisis,

17:00

resistance, and hope in an American

17:02

city. I highly recommend to picking

17:04

up a copy. While

17:08

the story of what happened in Flint is one of the more

17:10

visible and recent examples of environmental

17:12

racism, there are sadly dozens

17:14

of flints all over the country.

17:17

In Texas, predominant Latino

17:19

communities like Houston's Manchester neighborhood

17:22

are suffering from increased rates of cancer and

17:24

other illnesses because of pollution

17:26

along the Houston Ship Channel, one of the

17:29

biggest oil and gas manufacturing

17:31

and transport areas in the United

17:33

States. One par Us has been a

17:35

community organizer and environmental justice

17:37

advocate for decades. His organization,

17:39

TAJAS, was founded on the belief the quote

17:42

everyone, regardless of racer income, is

17:44

entitled to live in a clean environment. I

17:47

was so glad to have the chance to listen to him

17:49

talk about what's happening in Texas and in

17:51

too many other places across America.

17:55

Houston is often known as

17:57

the energy capital of the United

17:59

States, sometimes even the energy capital

18:01

of the world. What does that mean

18:04

though? For people who live

18:06

in Houston, who live in the shadow of

18:08

all of that energy being

18:11

produced every day, it's

18:13

almost as if they don't exist. Nobody's

18:16

addressing their concerns and the issues.

18:18

There's been a study done on the

18:20

Houston CYP channel that if you live within

18:22

a two mile rade use of the Houston GYP channel,

18:25

there's a fifty six probability

18:28

of contacted childhood and kemia. There

18:30

was another study done by the City

18:33

of Houston and School of Public Health that

18:35

says that in the Manchester community,

18:38

which is one of our main focus, that they're

18:40

exposed to twelve hesidous air

18:42

pollutings. Seven of which are cancer

18:44

costs. They know the research

18:47

is being done by you know, credible and

18:49

reliable sources institutions and

18:51

universities, and yet uh, they

18:53

just dispelled it like, well, you know,

18:56

we got some good information and

18:58

the best thing people ought to do just relocate

19:01

or move out of there. And we feel

19:03

like these well the public health

19:05

department are not taking as much

19:07

interest as I feel that they

19:09

should to address just the

19:11

earth toxins that actually caused leukemia.

19:14

One, why do you think that the public health

19:17

authorities in Houston or

19:20

in Texas aren't responding more

19:23

seriously to the very serious

19:25

health crisis as seen in the elevated

19:28

rates of leukemia in children

19:31

and in so many other cancers that affect

19:33

kids and adults. One of

19:35

the reasons that I think they don't address it

19:37

is because it is confirming something

19:39

that's going on in our communities, legitimize

19:42

our concerns. And then the other issue

19:44

is that they blame it also indict

19:47

it's what you eat, and but

19:49

they will blame other issues on these

19:52

environmental hasswards that we're facing instead

19:54

of saying, look, it's connected to the industry

19:57

and this COEs on what the nation is not

19:59

just our munities. Could you

20:01

also tell us a little bit about TAJAS

20:03

and the work that your organization focuses on. Now,

20:06

our organization focuses primarily

20:08

to environmental justice or injustice

20:11

as some of us call it, and our focus

20:13

has been to address all the air

20:15

toxins. That there's numerous studies that

20:17

have been done along the Houston Chip Channel

20:20

that in the cap high levels of very toxics,

20:22

and we're talking about cumulative impacts and

20:24

others. The evidence is overwhelming.

20:27

The environmental health impacts

20:30

are not unknown. The

20:32

consequences, especially for

20:34

kids, are not unknown. And

20:37

yet you know, for years,

20:39

for decades, you've been pushing

20:41

for establishing that evidence and

20:44

then pushing the local, state,

20:46

the federal government to act on that evidence.

20:48

Do you ever get discouraged Because just listening

20:51

to you sound so measured

20:53

and future oriented and action focused.

20:56

I would say we don't get discouraged because what

20:59

it does, it irri teakes you so much

21:01

that you actually get more agitated.

21:04

You feel like, I'm just not gonna let this happen

21:06

to our communities. I'm not going to let it happen to

21:08

my family. Where you have to defend

21:10

your position against all

21:12

thats on the happy with your community

21:15

and yourself and your families in your neighborhood,

21:18

because otherwise, you know, as they always say, if

21:20

you don't stand up for yourself, you're just going

21:22

to be abused all the time. So

21:25

we are standing up for ourselves, were speaking

21:27

for our communities in a sense.

21:29

Also, because we deal with a lot of immigrant

21:32

population, they're even afraid

21:34

to speak up, regardless

21:36

of how better situation, because

21:38

of the fear of maybe immigration

21:41

rate in their communities and just grounding

21:43

them up. There's a lot of things that happen

21:45

in our communities that are beyond

21:48

the issues of what we call environmental

21:50

justice issues. One, given that you've

21:52

been in the trenches of this work now

21:55

for so many years, what gives

21:57

you hope about the future. I'm

22:00

hoping that the future generations will

22:02

have a better life than we have. We

22:05

need to address climate change and

22:07

somebody's got to speak up for it. You

22:10

can just be in the audience and

22:12

say, well, let those kids do it, or that you

22:14

know has the organization doing

22:16

it. I think people are coming together

22:18

to realize and that this is a

22:20

good cause. It's a cause that has

22:23

huge implications. It just

22:25

takes a mindset to get to that point

22:27

because a lot of us, as they say,

22:29

lift paycheck to paycheck, and

22:32

when you live paycheck to paycheck, that's

22:34

why you're trying to do, trying to survive.

22:37

But when you go a little bit beyond that

22:39

and you start realizing, well, look there's other

22:41

things that are affecting my way of life and

22:44

how can I get involved and how can I make

22:46

a difference, That's part of what we're

22:48

trying to do. Just a final question,

22:50

what does environmental justice look

22:53

like for the communities where Tejas

22:55

works? What would it

22:58

look like for you to say, yes, like

23:00

this is environmental justice.

23:02

Finally, bottom line

23:05

is that what we need to do is

23:07

the e p A at the national

23:09

level has to have policies in place

23:12

that are federally regulated to

23:14

impost good environmental regular issues.

23:16

If it's left up to individual

23:19

states, we're going to continue having

23:22

issues with just local issues.

23:24

And we need to support of our congressional folks

23:27

at the national level as well. In

23:29

the city of Houston, we really

23:31

have rarely our

23:34

elected officials come out

23:36

on defensive community saying, look, we're going

23:38

to support you on this until

23:40

you know we win this environmental

23:42

concerns that you have, but you've got to

23:45

care. You've got to care about your community. And

23:47

if you don't care about your community, if you don't

23:49

you're not impacted by it, is like,

23:51

well, you know, that's out of sight, out of

23:53

mind. Well one, thank you so

23:55

much for your time today, and certainly

23:58

and I hope that everyone take seriously

24:01

the message of understanding what's happening

24:03

in our own communities and also listening

24:06

to people who are living in communities

24:09

that are disproportionately affected

24:11

by pollution and

24:13

more often than not, the twin problem

24:15

of environmental racism.

24:20

To learn more about the important work that Want

24:22

and his fellow community organizers are doing in

24:24

Houston, please go to Tajous Barrios

24:26

dot org. That's t e j A

24:28

S B A R r I O

24:31

s dot org. We're

24:34

taking a quick break. Stay with us.

24:42

Local communities speaking out about environmental

24:44

racism and taking on powerful industries

24:46

in the process are crucial to drawing

24:48

attention to injustices, but they can't

24:51

solve these problems alone. We need leadership

24:53

on the local, state, and federal levels too.

24:56

When President By nominated then Congresswoman

24:58

Deb Hollen to service this secretary of the Interior

25:01

was a major commitment to environmental justice.

25:04

As a member of Congress, she had

25:06

introduced legislation requiring the Departments

25:08

of the Interior and Agriculture to publicly

25:10

report on their permitting processes. She

25:12

had fought for funding to address air pollution

25:15

and historically marginalized communities, and

25:17

she has always been passionate about

25:20

protecting our public lands for everyone.

25:22

As Secretary of the Interior, she's responsible

25:25

not only for our public parks, but

25:27

also for preserving our natural resources

25:29

and building relationships with tribal governments.

25:32

Secretary Holland is a member of the Pueblo

25:35

of Laguna and a thirty fifth generation

25:37

New Mexican. It was particularly

25:39

eager to learn from her about how she

25:41

hopes to address the needs of Native American

25:43

communities who have been at the front lines of

25:46

some of the biggest environmental justice battles

25:48

in our country. Thank

25:50

you so much for talking with us today.

25:52

You know, first I just want to ask how you're doing

25:54

and how your first month as Secretary of

25:56

our Interior has been. Thank

25:59

you, Chelsea. I'm honored to be

26:01

here and happy to have an opportunity

26:04

to speak with you on this important topic

26:07

and let's see, it's been

26:09

busy. That's the understatement.

26:11

I guess the thing that I will tell

26:13

you right now is I am honored

26:15

to be on a team of

26:17

so many dedicated public servants.

26:20

The Department of the Interior has

26:22

about sixty five thousand employees

26:25

who care for our public lands.

26:27

They care about our animals, they care about

26:29

water and air and renewable

26:32

energy. And it is a true

26:34

amazing honor to serve alongside

26:37

so many talented and dedicated

26:39

individuals. I read that your mother

26:41

actually worked for the Bureau of Indian Affairs

26:44

many years ago, which is part of the Department

26:46

of the Interior. Do you remember your

26:49

mom talking about her work when

26:51

you were growing up and did you ever imagine

26:53

that one day you might be the Secretary

26:55

of the Interior. No, I never

26:58

imagined it. Quite frankly, I know.

27:00

I wasn't a kid that said, oh, I want to be a

27:02

congresswoman when I grow up, I want to be the

27:04

president. I never said any of that. My

27:06

mom was actually an office manager in Albuquerque

27:09

for the Superintendent of Education

27:12

in the Southwest Region, and

27:14

she was responsible for student count

27:16

She was responsible for counting every

27:19

single student in that system to make

27:21

sure that they had the funding that

27:23

they needed, and she took that job

27:25

extremely seriously. So she's

27:27

thrilled, Yes, but she dedicated

27:30

twenty five years of her career

27:32

to Native American students across

27:34

the country and and so she's

27:37

proud of the work that she did. The

27:39

Department of the Interior is a big department.

27:42

You oversee everything from the Endangered Species

27:44

Act to energy and mining to protecting

27:47

cultural heritage. Is there one

27:49

thing that you wish more people understood about

27:51

your mission and why it's so important to you?

27:53

You know, I was very fortunate to grow

27:56

up outdoors. My dad he

27:58

was an environment almost really

28:01

and made sure that we were in nature

28:03

every chance we got. And I know there's

28:05

a lot of kids who don't have those

28:07

opportunities, and I'm hoping that somehow

28:11

as a country, we can provide folks

28:13

with those opportunities, because I feel

28:15

like you learn about nature if you're in nature.

28:18

I completely agree. My parents, thankfully

28:21

very much brought me into nature, whether that

28:23

were hikes on the weekends in

28:25

Arkansas or some of my earliest memories

28:28

are going to Glacier

28:30

National Park or going to Yellowstone,

28:33

like really being in some of

28:35

our most majestic spaces

28:37

and places in our country, and we

28:39

have so much evidence that being

28:41

in nature is really good for our health. And

28:44

so while I bet a lot of Americans

28:46

don't think of the Department of the Interior first

28:48

when they think of what part of our government

28:50

has stewardship for health, you

28:53

actually have such an important role in

28:55

helping to protect our environment

28:59

and help people be in nature.

29:02

Do you see public health as part of your

29:04

role as the Secretary of the Interior. Absolutely.

29:07

I remember reading an article about

29:10

some people on the Navajo Nation who didn't

29:12

either they didn't have running water or

29:15

the water that they had is polluted,

29:18

so they would have to drive twenty miles

29:20

to fill water buckets up. I

29:22

mean, and that is a responsibility

29:24

of the Department of the Interior. And so

29:26

proud that President Biden recognizes

29:29

that we need to pay attention

29:31

and put resources toward cleaning

29:34

up this environmental degradation

29:36

so that people have clean

29:38

water to drink. It's a human right. And

29:41

during a pandemic, when everybody was washing

29:43

their hands and worried about

29:45

that aspect, there were folks in this country

29:48

who couldn't do that. Likewise,

29:50

a broadband internet service right.

29:52

There are Indian tribes right now, tribal

29:55

governments who are using dial

29:57

up because they don't have access

29:59

to a broadband internet service. So

30:02

those are issues that we care about,

30:04

that we're going to work on, that we

30:06

need to absolutely pay

30:09

attention to. As I mentioned with

30:11

this pandemic, if folks, if more people

30:14

had access to broadband internet,

30:16

folks living in those vast rural communities

30:19

would have opportunities for telehealth,

30:21

for example. And so there

30:23

are so many ways that we can impact

30:25

people's lives positively,

30:28

and I'm going to look for every single

30:30

opportunity for us to do

30:32

that. When you were a Congresswoman

30:35

Holland, you repeatedly called

30:37

out the role that the Department of the Interior

30:39

could be playing in helping

30:42

to not only really

30:44

combat climate change, but also to really

30:47

be a force to combat environmental

30:49

racism and a force for real

30:52

environmental justice. Now

30:54

that you're on the inside, as

30:56

it is, leading the Department

30:59

of the Interior, you think about translating

31:01

all that passionate energy of a real

31:04

accountability into now action.

31:06

One thing I think about so often

31:09

as I'm going about my daily

31:11

work. I'm from Laguna Pueblo

31:13

and we were home to the largest

31:16

open pit uranium mine in

31:18

the world for thirty years,

31:20

three open pit and nine underground

31:22

mines. When the company left,

31:25

uranium was blowing around. There's

31:27

still people who are

31:29

reckoning with the health impacts

31:32

of that massive project. And

31:34

so I think about how

31:36

we absolutely need to make sure

31:38

that communities who were impacted

31:41

by those kinds of issues

31:43

have a way out, have opportunities

31:46

to thrive, to live clean

31:48

lives, to breathe clean air. And

31:51

so of course we'll

31:53

do whatever we can with

31:56

the leadership by this president

31:58

and ensure that that can unities

32:00

that have been left behind are lifted

32:02

up and amount of secretary.

32:04

So often it is the

32:06

communities who are most affected by

32:09

environmental injustice who have to

32:11

raise the alarm, whether that is in Flint

32:13

or in your pueblo. How do you

32:16

think about ensuring that those

32:18

voices are heard and listened to, especially

32:21

from tribal government. We

32:24

need to make sure that tribes are genuinely

32:27

consulted when issues

32:29

would impact their communities before

32:31

any decisions are made, so they actually

32:34

have an opportunity to weigh

32:36

in on decisions, to make their voices

32:38

known. Tribal consultation is

32:40

not texting a tribal leader

32:43

two hours before a major

32:45

impact to one of their sacred sites. It's

32:48

making sure that we have meaningful

32:51

consultation. I think that

32:53

in the end it will save the

32:55

taxpayers money. It

32:58

will make sure that we are sending

33:00

to folks on the ground and

33:02

we can change courses when

33:05

we have that input. Sectry

33:07

Holland, we spoke a little bit about

33:10

the disproportionate effects of

33:13

the COVID nineteen pandemic on communities

33:16

of color in our country, including on our

33:18

Native and Indigenous communities. Do

33:21

you think that out of this moment you

33:23

really and the Biden administration really will

33:26

have more momentum to tackle all

33:28

of those inequities and inequalities coherently.

33:31

Well. I think President Biden

33:33

hit the ground running, and he came

33:36

into office during the height of

33:38

this terrible pandemic. That was his

33:40

main priority to make sure that

33:42

our country got their vaccinations,

33:45

that they were able to have the resources

33:47

they need to make sure their communities

33:49

had masks and medical

33:51

supplies, but also vaccinations.

33:54

If you look across the country to some of

33:56

those communities, Native American communities,

33:59

for example, have done an amazing

34:01

job. The Navajo Nation on some

34:04

days has had the highest per capita vaccination

34:06

rate of any community in our country.

34:09

Yes, the Navajo Nation, the Cherokee

34:11

Nation, New Mexico's Pueblos

34:14

Native American communities there seemingly

34:16

the most organized. Yes, yes, ma'am

34:19

using those traditional communication

34:21

skills and organizing skills to get

34:24

vaccinations done. They were even inviting

34:26

people from outside of their communities.

34:29

Call your friends and tell them we have vaccinations

34:31

for them. And so I feel that

34:34

we need to continue on this trajectory

34:37

making sure that we are vaccinating

34:39

the country. And when we're

34:41

healthy, when we can

34:44

venture out, then our economy will

34:46

get moving again. Montor Secretaries,

34:48

is there anything else that you would want

34:50

anyone listening to understand about

34:52

your work or about Really it sounds

34:54

like your mission at the Department of Interior

34:57

and how it connects to environmental justice

34:59

and to public holistically.

35:01

This kind of goes back to a question

35:04

you asked me earlier. We all benefit

35:06

from our knowledge of

35:09

the natural world. You're not going

35:11

to care about things you don't know about. I

35:13

just want every single American to know

35:16

that our public lands belong

35:18

to you, and I want people to

35:20

get out there. I want people to experience

35:23

nature and realize how

35:25

important it is that we protect these

35:27

things. Go for a hike, take a

35:29

deep breath, and be there to take a deep breath

35:31

and be in nature. Secredy

35:34

Holland, thank you so much for your time today,

35:36

and I certainly am looking forward to taking my

35:38

kids to National Parker to this

35:40

summer and hopefully seeing

35:42

you when it is safe. Thank you again,

35:44

so very much for your time. To

35:48

learn more about Secretary Holland's plans for

35:50

the Department of the Interior, please

35:52

go to d o I dot gov and

35:54

follow her at secdeb Holland.

35:58

Whether we're talking about lead and drinking water or

36:00

COVID nineteen, the effects of public

36:03

health crises are rarely felt equally across

36:05

communities. Systemic racism

36:07

and the other inequities that affect people's lives

36:09

every day have a lot to do with who gets hurt,

36:12

who gets sick, and who gets the resources

36:14

they need to address a problem. It

36:16

also influences whether or not people

36:19

in a position of power or paying attention

36:21

in the first place. So what

36:23

can we do for starters. We

36:25

can name and recognize these challenges. We

36:27

can hold our elected officials and leaders accountable

36:30

and we can always amplify the voices

36:32

of people who are speaking out when

36:34

it comes to environmental justice. The good

36:36

news is that there are lots of organizations

36:39

already working at the local levels all across

36:41

our country, so finding one near you

36:43

tackling a challenge you care about is an excellent

36:45

way to join the fight. If you're concerned

36:47

about a specific environmental issue near you, contact

36:50

your member of Congress or file a complaint

36:52

through the Environmental Protection Agency. You

36:54

can do that at e C h O

36:57

dot e p A dot gov,

36:59

slash report dash Environmental

37:02

dash Violations. In

37:05

Fact is brought to you by iHeart Radio,

37:07

reproduced by Erica Goodmanson, Lauren

37:10

Peterson, Cathy Russo, Julie

37:12

Subrian, and Justin Wright, with help

37:14

from the Hidden Light team of Barry Lurie, Sarah

37:17

Horowitz, Nicki Huggett, Emily

37:19

Young, and hum Abodeen, with additional

37:21

support from Lindsay Hoffman. Original

37:23

music is by Justin Wright. If

37:25

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