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Hi,

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I'm Chelsea Clinton, and this season on in fact,

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we're celebrating Women's History Month, and

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since the month is never enough, we're keeping

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going a little longer. I'm talking with trailblazing

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women at the top of their fields about their personal

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journeys, the progress women have made,

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and how far we still have to go. Today,

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I am so excited to be talking about books

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in the publishing industry with one of my all time

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favorite authors, Jacqueline Woodson. We

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know that the stories we share with our kids influence

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how they see themselves in their place in this world,

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and yet studies consistently show

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that the majority of main characters in American

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children's stories are male and white. In

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fact, in one

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study found that there were more animal and non

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human characters than non white characters

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and books published that year, and from

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the percentage of children's books written about

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racially diverse characters or subjects grew

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by only one percent. Jacqueline

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has written more than thirty books for children

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and young adults, complex beautiful

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stories that usually center around girls,

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women, and people of color. One of my

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personal favorites is the middle grade novel

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Harbor Me, and it a group of six

1:14

kids get together after school each week

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and what they call the Art Room.

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That's a r T T for a

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room to talk with no adults

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present. They share their feelings

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and open up about the very serious challenges

1:28

they in their family space. Jacqueline

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has written two books for adults, another

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Brooklyn and Read at the Bone,

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but she may be best known for her middle grade

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memoir Inverse Brown Girl

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Dreaming won multiple awards,

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including the National Book

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Award for Young People's Literature, and

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for years it's been a staple in classrooms

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across the country, though as

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you'll hear later, recently there have been

1:53

districts trying to ban it, and it's

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not the only one. It

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would take a very, very

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long time to list all the awards and honors

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Jacqueline has received, but some of

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the highlights include serving as the Poetry

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Foundations young People's Poet Laureate from

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seventeen, being named Ambassador

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for Young People's Literature by the Library of Congress

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of receiving a MacArthur

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Genius Fellowship, and the Hans

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Christian Anderson Award, which is the

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highest international recognition given to authors

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and illustrators of children's books. Jacqueline,

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thank you so much for being here today,

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and as someone who first came

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to know you through your books

2:41

for young readers, I would love to know

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first what you read growing up.

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What were your favorite things to read when

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you were a kid. It's so good

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to see you and talk to you, Chelsea. I

2:53

love these kind of connections. I love talking about

2:55

literature. I love talking about when so

2:59

and when I think back, it's

3:01

so interesting because I see my

3:04

reading is being really limited.

3:07

And I wonder if

3:09

we talked to my older sister, who read

3:12

all the time, if she would have the same

3:14

narrative. She loved books

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like A Silver Skate and Harry

3:19

the Spy and All of a Kind

3:21

Family and all of these books that I

3:23

was not interested in, and I didn't

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know why I was not interested in them,

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even though I love are you there, God, It's me Margaret.

3:30

That's one book I read over and over

3:32

again, and then anything else. Judy Bloom came

3:34

along with But I really

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found myself inside

3:39

books like Eloise Greenfield.

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She come bringing That Baby Girl, which is this

3:43

great book that's written in

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a dialect I understood

3:47

and in a way that I saw myself

3:50

and my people inside of it. And so I

3:52

was constantly looking for those books.

3:54

I remember reading The Bluest Eye

3:56

when I was like in fifth grade, because I read

3:59

The bluest Ian it's great, yeah, and

4:01

here's the crazy thing. So I read it

4:03

in fifth grade, and my memory of it was that

4:05

in the end of the book, Cola Bad Love

4:07

was this black girl who wants blue eyes so

4:09

that she can be accepted in the world, like Shirley

4:12

Temple. I mean, it's such a tragic story.

4:15

My memory of it was that she

4:17

got blue eyes and lived happily ever

4:19

after. And then

4:21

I read it again as an adult in high

4:23

school, and I was like, oh, Tony Morrison changed

4:26

the ending, and then I thought, no, there

4:28

was a children's version and the adult version,

4:30

and this must have been the children's version that I read

4:32

in fifth grade. And I think it was my sister who was

4:35

like, there are not two versions of that book,

4:39

kids compartmentalized. So those

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are the books I remember, and I just remember reading

4:44

the same books over and over. Hans Christian

4:46

Andersen, anything that he wrote,

4:48

but especially The Little match Girl was

4:50

a book that I was fascinated

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by. Clearly, some of the books

4:55

she read made a huge impact on

4:57

you, not only when you were a kid, But even

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through to today it sounds like definitely,

5:03

I think the message that got hammered in

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my head was that I wasn't a quote great

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reader. And I get nervous because

5:09

I see it happening with young people today. You

5:11

are supposed to read fast, you're supposed to consume

5:14

lots of literature. You're supposed to read

5:17

above quote unquote your grade level.

5:19

And there were all these rules to reading

5:22

that were inside a box I

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was not ascribing to. For me, it

5:26

was about being in the dream

5:28

of the narrative, just getting caught up

5:31

in the story and being swept away

5:33

by it, and then wanting to have that experience

5:35

again and again. And so that's how

5:37

I read. I read the same books over and over. And

5:40

when you were little reading the same

5:43

books over and over, did you ever think, oh,

5:45

Wow, I want to write a book that maybe

5:48

some other child in the future will want to read

5:50

over and over. Yeah, I've known I wanted

5:52

to be a writer since I was seven, since

5:54

you were seven. That's such a specific answer.

5:57

What happened at seven? Two things happened.

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I learned how to write my name, I learned

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how to write Jacqueline, and I learned that

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writing that name put

6:06

it in the world. There was such a power

6:09

to the fact that you put letters together and

6:11

they make words, and that's all there

6:13

was to it. And so I made that connection between

6:15

the books I was reading and this new

6:17

power I had of writing

6:20

my name. And then I was always

6:22

telling stories. I was always getting in trouble for lying.

6:24

But when I wrote my name in that way,

6:26

Jacqueline Amanda Woodson, I was like, I want

6:28

to be a writer. And every

6:30

time I read a book, like when I read Hans Christian

6:33

Anderson, when I read The Little match Girl, all

6:35

I could think of was I want to do

6:37

that. I want to make someone else

6:39

feel that way, or I want to make myself feel

6:41

that way again. So how am I going to do

6:44

that through story? And did you

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know any writers when you were growing up? Did

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you know people who were kind of taking

6:50

things out of their heads or even

6:52

observing the world around them and then putting

6:55

that into words. I

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did not. It was a different time.

6:59

You know. My mom wrote poetry for a long

7:01

time as a young person, and when

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she was in high school she wrote

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the poem that opened their high school

7:08

yearbook. And a very famous man who

7:10

we all know whose name I won't

7:13

say on air, actually put his name

7:15

on the poem. This person

7:17

was the editor of the yearbook, and he just signed

7:19

his name to the poem. And it

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broke my mother's heart, Like you

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know, I think for her for so long she

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would see that poem where I still have the yearbook,

7:29

and she would say, you know, that was mine. I wrote

7:31

that poem. And so I wonder what

7:33

it would have meant for her to have that poem

7:36

in the world in a certain way, because at

7:38

one point she loved poetry. At one point she

7:40

was writing it and feeling brave enough

7:42

to put it into the world, and then that was

7:44

erased by the theft of it. So

7:48

so I would say that I'm genetically

7:50

connected to writers, but it wasn't at

7:52

a point where we had author visits or

7:55

anything. And so at seven, you

7:57

decide you want to be a writer. Did

7:59

you even know then that you would

8:01

write for as many different

8:03

audiences and as many different age

8:06

groups or did that come later? I

8:08

would say it came later. I knew I wanted

8:11

to write, and I didn't think that

8:13

there was just one group

8:15

of people to write for. And I still

8:17

don't believe that. I think all books were for everyone.

8:20

I mean, when you look at my experience with The Bluest

8:22

Eye and reading it as a fifth grader, it

8:24

didn't destroy me. It made me

8:27

have a whole other narrative about that story.

8:29

And there are lots of people who would say, well,

8:31

that book is not for kids, and It's like, yeah,

8:34

it's for kids who want to read it and

8:36

get something out of it. So I always

8:38

thought about writing that way. I didn't think I'm going

8:40

to write picture books for little kids,

8:42

are grown up books for

8:44

adults. I didn't know that those

8:47

worlds were so heavily

8:49

defined, but I knew that I wanted

8:51

to tell stories, and I wanted those stories

8:53

to land with people. And

8:56

so as you now think about

8:58

the thirty plus books you've

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written for everyone knows some

9:02

more oriented towards kids or teenagers

9:05

or adults. Are there

9:08

certain themes that have

9:10

been important to you to

9:12

tackle or highlight in different

9:14

books over time? Or has

9:17

each book had its own identity,

9:19

its own story, its own logic. Definitely

9:23

both, you though, I

9:25

think the journey to the

9:28

End, which has often been about

9:30

acceptance, about freedom, about letting

9:33

people have their lives, about seeing

9:35

people as their whole selves

9:38

has transitioned through every single book

9:40

I've written. I think there's a strong social

9:42

justice element to the narratives,

9:44

and the characters are always very different

9:47

and the situations by which they get

9:49

to that we all have a right to

9:51

walk through the world safely. Moment it's

9:53

varied from book to book, will

9:59

be right back stay with us. You

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mentioned your mom wrote poetry, and

10:12

poetry also plays an important role

10:14

in your books, including your memoir Brown

10:16

Girl Dreaming, which is written entirely in

10:19

verse. Was it

10:21

because of your mom that you were drawn to poetry

10:23

or do you find it's sometimes

10:26

just inevitable for what the story needs.

10:29

Part of it is because when I was a young person, I was

10:31

very afraid of poetry. I

10:33

thought it was this secret language

10:35

that only dead white men understood,

10:38

basically, And it wasn't until I

10:40

was made aware of the works of like

10:42

Langsa Hughes and Nikki Giovanni's

10:44

poetry. I first heard her reciting

10:46

on an album, on a record album that my mom

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had. I didn't make that connection that

10:51

was poetry because I was like, what is this? This

10:53

is going straight to my heart? And so

10:55

when I started writing, I knew that the

10:58

way things sounded was important. The way

11:00

things looked on the page was important.

11:02

The way a line ended was important.

11:05

And I learned that was poetry. I love

11:07

that, and everything I write I read

11:09

out loud, so that makes a difference too,

11:11

and how it sounds. So I've thought about

11:14

your book harbor Me

11:16

quite a lot in the last couple of weeks, because

11:18

just looking at the crisis

11:21

in Ukraine and that there are close

11:23

to three million refugees, and in harbor

11:25

Me, it's a group of kids who are

11:28

aware of often issues that we

11:30

think aren't appropriate

11:32

for kids to learn about or to think

11:34

about, and yet issues that affect so

11:37

many kids in this country or

11:40

around the world, whether issues

11:42

relating to incarceration

11:44

or the fear of having to leave your

11:46

home. And so I just wonder,

11:49

Jacqueline, what stories

11:52

do you hear from people who have read that book

11:54

or any of your books, where readers say

11:56

to you, this really hit

11:59

me in this or this really affected

12:01

me so many

12:05

you know. I think the thing that

12:07

happened with harbor Me is

12:09

I was talking to young people and

12:11

then the pandemic came, and

12:13

then I started getting letters from young people

12:16

who would say, you know, this is

12:18

my life I am Holly,

12:20

I am Haley, I am Amori. So

12:23

Harbor Me was like both heartbreaking

12:25

and healing because I heard

12:27

so many stories of so many kids,

12:30

across lines of race, across lines of

12:32

economic class, the stories of their

12:34

fear and their heartbreak and the places

12:37

in which they felt trapped inside their

12:39

own skin. And one of those stories,

12:41

and Harbor Me, is about a white boy who moves

12:43

into a predominantly black neighborhood and

12:45

what that means for him to suddenly

12:48

be other other by no fault

12:50

of his own. He's walking home and he's getting

12:53

his next laughter. He's keeping this a secret,

12:55

right that there's this download bullying going

12:57

on, and then the way the

12:59

kid rally around him and say,

13:02

we will not let this happen anymore. And I

13:04

think that's another story that kids talk

13:06

about, is like, that's unfair, that shouldn't

13:08

happen. Why, you know, why would they do that?

13:11

And I remember going to a school

13:13

this was with visiting day, and visiting

13:15

day is the story of a girl whose dad

13:18

is incarcerated, and a teacher said, well,

13:21

we don't need to read this book because no one in

13:23

this class has any one in

13:25

prison. And of course that made me mad,

13:27

and I'm like, I'm going to read that book. And

13:30

then when I read it,

13:32

one kid raised his hand, He's like, my dad's in prison.

13:34

Another kid raised his hand, he's like, my cousins

13:37

in prison, my brother's in prison. And there were

13:39

about six kids who knew someone

13:41

who was incarcerated. And the teacher

13:44

said, I never knew that, and I said,

13:46

because you never opened this door

13:48

for them. And we had this beautiful

13:51

conversation where these kids have been living

13:53

with the shame of it. And I think of that often,

13:55

how we as adults, we too

13:58

often get to decide what the tone

14:01

is in the room, what that tone

14:03

is going to be, and what kids are going

14:05

to feel safe talking about, and harbor

14:07

me became this

14:10

huge conversation among all these

14:12

kids talking about which character

14:15

fit their own particular narrative,

14:17

and it was so great to see

14:19

that, and teachers talking about, Okay, we're gonna have an

14:21

art room. Now, you know, we're going to have a space where

14:24

adults give kids the space

14:26

to talk. And it doesn't even mean having

14:28

to leave the room, but being

14:30

comfortable in our own silence. I find,

14:32

even with my own kids, if I sit

14:35

very quietly, I hear things I won't hear

14:37

if I'm actually talking, or if

14:40

they are aware of my presence in the room

14:42

and just being able to be

14:44

in that space where young people

14:47

are talking about all of these seemingly

14:49

very quote unquote adult issues and

14:51

it's like, no, these are there every

14:54

day. I do want to ask about Brown

14:56

Girl Dreaming, since it is autobiographical

14:59

and so much your work is wonderfully

15:01

in the world of fiction, but how and why did

15:03

you decide to share

15:06

your own story. I was trying

15:08

to figure out how I got

15:10

to this point of being Jacqueline

15:12

Woodson. I had grown up Jackie, the

15:15

regular girl on the block, you know, one

15:17

of four children, and I wanted

15:19

to go back to the beginning.

15:22

And I was falling apart through the

15:24

three years of writing that. And it's so funny because

15:26

I would just write pieces and I'm like, this

15:28

is not making sense. Why isn't it coming out as

15:30

chapters? Why does this even matter? It

15:32

felt so deeply specific, and

15:35

um, you know, my beloved partner was like,

15:37

just keep writing. And then I say, like, what was your

15:39

partner and your family friends, what were they saying

15:42

on this journey? They were like, oh,

15:44

Jackie's falling apart again. She must be

15:46

writing another book. Jackie's cranky

15:48

again, she must have had a bad writing day, like the

15:51

same thing they've been saying for twenty years.

15:53

But I remember going to my friend Toshi

15:55

Reagan. She had read a bunch

15:57

of these little pieces, and I said, why am

16:00

not even trying to write this? Nothing was happening

16:02

when I was born, like this does not matter,

16:04

and she's like, what are you talking about?

16:06

This country was on fire when you were

16:08

born, And it completely

16:10

unlocked it to that first poem,

16:13

I am born on a Tuesday, February

16:15

twelfth, nineties sixty three, and

16:17

it really began to make sense

16:19

why I was telling this story. And

16:22

I really started thinking, I'm going

16:24

to tell this story in the context of American

16:27

history, because none of us are existing

16:29

outside the context of our country's

16:31

history. And then I thought I was going to talk

16:34

about my life and my mom and all this.

16:36

And in the middle of writing it, my mom died suddenly

16:38

at sixty eight, and suddenly that

16:40

door closed, and I was like, wait a second. I

16:43

had questions, there were things I wanted to ask

16:45

you. And then the

16:47

memoir changed and it became about myself

16:50

in the context of my mother right, because we're

16:52

on these journeys, because of the journeys our

16:54

parents were on, because of the journeys their parents

16:56

were on, and all the way back in time. And

16:59

that when all of it started making

17:02

sense, and all of it started having this

17:04

other history to it.

17:07

And when I finally got the

17:09

book finished, my beloved editor,

17:11

Nancy Paulson, just had her hand on my

17:13

back. The whole time, I was still saying, no

17:15

one is going to read this, and so

17:17

I was stunned. I still am stunned

17:20

by the journey that book has had. I've

17:22

talked to book clubs where the brown

17:24

girls are all Indian, you

17:26

know, are all Southeast

17:28

Asian, are all Asian, and

17:31

to realize that so many people who

17:33

see themselves as non white saw

17:35

themselves in this book. But what

17:37

really surprised me where all the white boys

17:40

who came to me, who wrote to me, it's

17:42

like, I love this book. I loved your grandfather,

17:45

or I wonder what happened to your brother, Like

17:47

everybody seemed to find some part

17:49

of themselves in this book. And then I get

17:51

these letters from white men in their seventies

17:54

who knew my grandfather, who knew hope,

17:56

and they're like, he taught me baseball. Your

17:58

grandfather was the nice man in Nelsonville,

18:01

and that blows me away.

18:03

So just being able to get these pieces

18:05

of my history given back to me because

18:07

of this memoirs is

18:09

such a gift. Oh my gosh. Well

18:11

and also, Jacqueline, that you wrote something that

18:14

feels both specific

18:16

and universal. It sounds like to the people who are reading

18:19

it. And yet we are living in a

18:21

time when there are forces

18:24

trying to limit what especially

18:26

kids can read, trying to take

18:28

books out of school or public

18:31

libraries, out of curricula,

18:34

especially for elementary

18:36

and middle school aged kids.

18:39

And I know your work has shown up on some

18:41

of those lists, and wonder

18:43

both kind of what that feels

18:46

like for you and also just

18:48

what advice you would have for anyone who

18:51

might be getting discouraged

18:53

by the velocity

18:56

of those efforts around the country. It's

18:58

exhausting. Most recently, Brown

19:00

Girl Dreaming ended up on the list. People

19:02

are challenging it because they said,

19:05

basically, there are no white folks in it, and it's going to

19:07

make white children feel bad, as opposed

19:10

to thinking about it as an

19:12

expansion of an experience

19:14

for people like the way that people

19:17

are trying to use literature to make

19:19

the world smaller is

19:22

heartbreaking, and for me as a writer,

19:24

it's exhausting more so than scary.

19:27

It's like, really, we have to have this

19:29

fight again. And now this fight is

19:31

different though, because it's trying to be legislated,

19:34

and it is in some places. So

19:36

I think the thing that we have

19:38

to be so aware of is that

19:41

we have power to create change

19:43

in this situation. We have power to

19:45

go to our if we don't go to our school

19:47

boards, go to our school buildings and

19:50

talk to the principle and write letters

19:52

in supportive librarians because they

19:54

are on the front lines of this. They're

19:56

the ones who are getting challenged just

19:59

for what's in their school libraries, and teachers

20:01

are getting challenge for which books they are sharing

20:03

with their young people, and we really

20:05

need our voices now, um And

20:07

I wish the press would support those people who

20:09

are challenging and winning against

20:12

these bands, because that's happening too,

20:14

and that does tend to give us a fire

20:17

right. It's like, well, if they could do this in Indiana,

20:19

we can do it in Brooklyn. But I think

20:21

we really have to be aware because it's

20:23

going to change what our kids

20:26

have access to. And as

20:28

parents, we want our kids to be as broad minded

20:30

as possible and to have as many experiences

20:33

as possible. And for many kids,

20:35

those experiences happened through literature,

20:38

and so if the literature is taken away, so

20:40

much is at state with these bands,

20:42

and I just think we really have to be aware

20:45

and be willing to write

20:47

those letters and go to those spaces

20:49

and make that change. I probably

20:52

not surprisingly emphatically agree.

20:54

I also think, especially for those of us

20:56

who have young children for whom

20:58

the pandemic has been a huge

21:01

portion of their lives, in which their lives

21:03

were rendered quite small, it's even

21:05

more important that there

21:08

are pathways and portals

21:10

into other people's experiences and to

21:12

other communities experiences.

21:14

Oh man, it is so true. I

21:16

always think about Dr Rudin since Bishop

21:19

hot talks about the importance of kids having both

21:21

mirrors and windows in their literature,

21:24

mirrors so they could see reflections of themselves,

21:26

and windows so that they can see into other

21:28

worlds. And You're so right, this is

21:30

the opportunity for them to see

21:32

into those other world We're

21:37

taking a quick break to stay with us

21:50

thinking about the need for

21:52

windows and mirrors. We know that most

21:55

of children's literature has been written

21:57

by white people, and most of children's

21:59

literature has been written by men,

22:02

and most of children's literature has actually been

22:04

told from a male or a boy's

22:06

point of view, including

22:09

which I have never understood, Jacqueline.

22:11

So many of the classic books about

22:14

animals, and you're like, why do the frogs

22:16

and the toads need to be gendered male?

22:18

Or the ducks or the cows.

22:20

And while certainly there are

22:23

more women authors,

22:25

there are more authors of

22:27

color, there are more women authors of color,

22:30

were still up against accumulative

22:32

history that is overwhelmingly

22:35

white and overwhelmingly male.

22:38

Do you think the publishing industry

22:40

is doing enough to help ensure

22:42

that there are more voices given

22:45

a platform, given an opportunity,

22:48

And if not, what more do you think needs

22:50

to happen? And what could anyone listening

22:54

do to try to help hasten the arrival

22:56

of real representation? Is

22:59

so much to do, And one

23:01

thing about publishing is

23:04

it's a business, and publishers

23:06

look at numbers and they

23:09

make assumptions. Sometimes based on those

23:11

numbers, Organizations

23:13

like we Need Diverse Books have been doing

23:15

the work to really change

23:18

what's happening in publishing and get

23:20

more books by folks published, and

23:22

then publishers get nervous that those books

23:24

aren't going to sell, even though I remember looking at

23:26

the bestseller list at one point and there were like

23:29

eight people of color on it. At

23:31

the same time, as parents,

23:34

as teachers, it's really

23:36

important to get the books.

23:38

And that doesn't mean to buy them. It makes

23:40

a difference if you go to your library and take

23:43

that book out. Publishers are gonna look

23:45

at that. Publishers need to get out

23:47

of their own way and understand

23:49

that there's this community of young authors

23:52

out there who just need a chance to get

23:54

their story told and have platforms

23:56

and will do their part to help get the book

23:58

into the world. But it's changing

24:00

slowly. I first published in the nineties

24:03

and I was one of very few as that with Walter

24:05

B. Myers and Virginia Hamilton's and them kissics,

24:07

but you can name them, I can name them. We

24:10

were all friends. But that that highlights,

24:12

like, I'm so grateful you had that community,

24:14

Jacqueline, and also highlights the challenge

24:17

that, like you knew everyone's

24:19

name it was and the rooms were

24:21

very white, and the awards ceremonies

24:24

were very white. So I do think the

24:26

support of writers

24:28

and their stories makes a huge difference

24:31

to publishers the demand for more

24:33

books Like that, I always say, what is your

24:35

child's library look like? When I was looking

24:37

for schools for my children, the first

24:39

thing I looked at was the classroom library

24:42

because that told me a lot about the teacher's choices.

24:44

That told me a lot about what the

24:47

tone of the classroom was going to be and

24:49

what the narrative of the classroom was going to be. And

24:51

I talked to the teachers and librarians, and I talked

24:53

about diversity. And some people are

24:55

comfortable with diversity being one or

24:57

two people. I'm not. I don't

25:00

think that's diversity wanted two people of color.

25:02

So I think when we're talking about

25:04

publishing and creating change, we're

25:06

not only also talking about the

25:08

number of books they're publishing, but who is

25:11

in the publishing health doing the

25:13

work. How many editors of color, how many publishers,

25:15

how many publicity people of color. There's so

25:17

many levels of it, and there's

25:19

still so much work to do. But again,

25:22

we have that power to make that change

25:25

by using our voices, by using our

25:27

wallets, by using our library cards to

25:29

demand that change. I'm

25:31

so curious Jacquling, what questions

25:34

do young writers, especially young

25:36

women writers, ask you, and

25:39

what advice do you give a lot of

25:41

times they ask how

25:43

do I get published? And I say,

25:45

don't worry about that now, because they're like

25:47

ten, and I don't.

25:51

That's the age to be worrying about the publishing

25:53

industry. That's the time to be telling

25:56

your stories. And I say, write

25:58

the stories that really mad or to you, and

26:00

show them to the people you trust

26:03

and who make you feel safe and who make

26:05

you want to keep writing. Do not

26:07

show them to the people who are going to destroy

26:10

them. There's constructive criticism and there's

26:12

destructive criticism. And I tell

26:14

them what Dorothy Allison told

26:16

me years and years decades ago,

26:19

that everybody has a story, and everybody

26:21

has a right to tell that story. So

26:23

don't let anyone silence your story

26:26

because the world is waiting for it. And I do believe

26:28

that about young writers. I mean, I think, can

26:30

you imagine the stories these

26:32

young people are gonna tell. It's gonna

26:34

be amazing, you know, I am

26:37

so ready for it. I think they have so

26:40

much grit, so many survival skills,

26:42

They've learned so much, they're so smart,

26:44

it's going to be phenomenal.

26:46

So I am just always effusive

26:49

when young people ask me about anything but

26:51

publishing, because I'm like, let's get these stories

26:54

on the page. And I always say, look up. You

26:56

have to walk through the world with your eyes open

26:58

or else you're not going to get the story. Worry. Yeah.

27:01

Amen. One last question, Jacqueline,

27:03

is there one statistic or fact

27:06

or anecdote that you can

27:08

share that either really inspires you

27:10

because it enrages you or it gives

27:12

you hope about where women are

27:14

and where we could be. I

27:17

would say, thinking about it

27:19

right in this moment, I

27:21

think about people like you.

27:24

I think about Roxanne Gay and Dressing

27:26

McMillan, Cottam and Jamil

27:28

Hill and all of these

27:30

women who have podcasts

27:33

now who are speaking truth to power

27:35

and being heard. And I think

27:37

about our young women and

27:39

older who actually have access

27:42

to this kind of information just by

27:45

putting their earphones in. So this

27:47

is huge for me, the fact that we

27:49

can have this conversation, and this conversation

27:51

can go out to lots and lots and

27:53

lots of people and they can continue

27:55

the conversation. It feels grassroots,

27:58

and it feels empowering, and it

28:00

feels world changing. That's

28:02

what I'm excited about today, that we're talking

28:04

to each other and we're telling the truth to each

28:07

other, and in doing so, we're protecting each

28:09

other and lifting each other up. So let's

28:11

continue that. Well, yes, Jacqueline,

28:13

thank you. I listened to the radio a lot with my mom

28:15

when I was a little kid, like local public

28:18

radio and little at Arkansas, and I remember being so excited

28:20

when there would be like a girl's voice on the

28:22

air. And so when you said that, I haven't

28:24

thought about that and so long. And

28:27

to know that my children,

28:29

your children, thankfully won't

28:31

have that experience because it won't be strange, dear

28:34

women's voices is something I'm

28:37

really grateful for and proud to be a very small part

28:39

of. Thank you for being a part of it.

28:41

Thank you Jacqueline so much. You

28:46

can find Jacqueline Woodson on Twitter at

28:48

Jackie Woodson, and I highly recommend

28:50

all of her books. They are important

28:53

and beautiful and powerful

28:55

moving stories. Her latest is

28:57

a picture book called The Year

28:59

We Learned to Fly. And

29:02

thank you all so much for joining me for

29:04

this season of In Fact. It's

29:06

been truly inspiring to celebrate

29:08

Women's History Month with so many amazing

29:10

women. And while we celebrate

29:12

progress we've made toward equality across the

29:14

board, we know we still have a long

29:17

ways to go. I hope we will

29:19

share these incredible women's stories with your

29:21

friends, families, and beyond. Thank

29:23

you for listening. In

29:25

Fact is brought to you by I Heart Radio. We

29:27

are produced by a mighty group of women

29:30

and one amazing man, Erica

29:32

Goodmanson, Mart Hart, Sarah

29:34

Horowitz, Jessmin Molly, and Justin

29:36

Wright, with help from Lindsay Hoffman,

29:39

Barry Lurie, Joey Sukuban, Julie

29:41

Supran, Mike Taylor, and Emily Young.

29:44

Original music is by Justin Wright. If

29:47

you like this episode of In Fact, please make

29:49

sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode, and

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30:00

The four

30:08

appo