0:00

Hi,

0:08

I'm Chelsea Clinton and this season on in fact,

0:10

we're celebrating Women's History Month. I'll

0:13

be talking with trailblazing women at the top

0:15

of their fields about their personal journeys, the

0:17

progress we've made, and how far we

0:19

still have to go. Today,

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I am thrilled to be talking about women

0:23

in sports with Megan Rapino, soccer

0:25

star, equal rights and equal

0:27

pay advocate and the person my children

0:30

know is the face of soccer and the lady with

0:32

the pink care We're talking shortly after

0:34

Megan and her teammates achieved a huge win

0:36

off the field and one many people

0:39

doubted was ever possible, a

0:41

settlement designed to bring equal pay to

0:43

our US national soccer team women

0:45

players. It's a fight Megan may

0:47

not have expected as a young player, but it's

0:50

one she's been a vital part of and when

0:52

she's often been the face of. Megan

0:55

began playing for the national team in two thousand and

0:57

six, but she burst onto the public

0:59

stage and became a viral sensation.

1:01

During the eleven World Cup quarterfinal

1:03

in Germany. It came I vividly remember

1:06

watching. In case you weren't

1:08

watching, Megan made a stunning forty

1:10

five yard passed to Abby Wambach, who headed

1:12

the ball into the goal, tying the score

1:14

with about a minute left in the match. It's

1:17

been called one of the greatest goals in women's

1:19

soccer history, though the team

1:21

later lost the final that year. I guess I didn't

1:23

bring good luck, even though I was cheering in the

1:25

stands that night. It brought home gold

1:28

at the Olympics and won the World

1:30

Cup in twenty nineteen, where

1:32

Megan was awarded the Golden Boot for being

1:34

top scorer and the Golden Ball for being

1:36

the best player in the tournament. Not surprisingly,

1:40

she was also named FIFA's Best

1:42

Woman Player of the Year. And yet,

1:44

even though chance of equal pay could

1:46

be heard throughout the stadium in France after

1:49

the team's victory, Megan and her teammates

1:51

still had to fight an uphill battle with the US

1:53

Soccer Federation for equal pay and equal

1:55

working conditions with the men's teams. A

1:58

year later, in the

2:00

former head of US Soccer claimed indisputable

2:02

science showed that women players were inferior

2:04

to men, and the team suffered a

2:06

major court loss. But the women

2:09

in the national team refused to stop fighting,

2:11

and in February,

2:13

four million dollar settlement was reached right before

2:15

Megan and I spoke. It awarded the players

2:18

twenty two million dollars, with an additional

2:20

two million dollars going towards reporting players

2:22

and their post soccer careers and charitable efforts.

2:25

Importantly, it also included

2:27

a pledge to equalize pay between

2:29

the men's and women's national teams collective bargaining

2:32

agreement. Megan is a leader and

2:34

a role model on the field and off in

2:36

sports and beyond for women and girls

2:38

and men and boys. The impact

2:41

of her work and her example will be felt for years

2:43

and for generations to come. I

2:45

asked Megan how she was feeling about the settlement

2:47

given the years of blood, sweat and tears

2:50

that went into reaching this moment. Oh

2:55

gosh, it's really as hard to put into

2:57

words. You know, something that you

3:00

shouldn't have to do, but you

3:02

know that you have to do it, and so there's that

3:05

battle constantly, and just like

3:07

you said, Um, I don't know if there was blood,

3:09

but certainly a lot of sweat and tears going

3:12

into it, and just such an arduous

3:15

process and long, oh

3:17

and so long in the courts

3:19

and COVID. I'm just happy

3:22

that we've come to this day and

3:24

that we were able to get to this. I mean, I think

3:26

the best part of the settlement is what

3:28

it will provide going forward. To

3:30

be honest, you know, I was saying yesterday

3:32

that I can never get this time

3:34

back. I can never be undiscriminated

3:37

against. I could never unhear the

3:39

things that they've said to us, or

3:41

the way that they've looked at us, or the way

3:43

that they've treated us over all of these years.

3:46

There's not really um I'm

3:48

sure I could think of a dollar amount that's bigger than twenty

3:51

four that would that would smooth it over

3:53

a little bit, but we're not there. But the

3:55

justice really comes from the next generation

3:57

of players never having to deal with any

4:00

of this again. Obviously, that's contingent

4:02

upon the negotiation of the collective

4:05

Bargaining Agreement, which the deadline is

4:07

I think has been pushed back to the end of March,

4:09

but both sides seem very confident

4:12

about that and moving forward. I think it's something

4:14

that the Federation has now understood

4:17

it has to end. I mean, it's just like,

4:20

what are we doing. I've been saying this for a long time.

4:22

When we win, everyone wins. And we can move

4:25

on and work to repair the

4:27

relationship that has been so

4:29

damaged and we can hopefully move forward together.

4:32

If they win, we're literally in the exact

4:34

same spot and everyone loses them

4:36

us, fans, the next generation,

4:38

everything. So it's surreal. It's hard to

4:41

even put into words, but I think it's

4:43

something that we're all incredibly proud

4:45

of and something that we can really

4:47

genuinely stand behind. And I think everyone's

4:50

looking forward to mending that relationship

4:52

and moving on to the next step of doing what we

4:54

want to do, which is playing soccer and

4:56

being able to do that to the fullest

4:58

of our ability and also grow the game

5:01

and grow the business of soccer. Megan,

5:04

as you say, while the back

5:06

pay is hugely important and certainly

5:08

I hope validating the

5:11

fact that the Federation has

5:13

committed to equal pay

5:15

into perpetuity, there's a really

5:18

really big deal. It's a really big deal.

5:20

Yeah, it's a really big deal. It

5:22

wasn't a straight line from when you

5:25

filed your complaints six years ago, two

5:27

days ago and you

5:29

lost a pretty significant ruling in

5:32

which you were in the process of appealing.

5:35

Was there a moment though, when you realized you

5:37

would win, that right would prevail, that

5:40

equal pay would happen. I

5:42

honestly always felt that, probably

5:45

because I'm really naive and the lyrical system and

5:47

I don't know everything, or you're just an optimist.

5:49

Yeah, I'm I'm a forever optimist post I

5:51

don't know totally the ins and outs of all the legal system.

5:53

So even the ruling in California,

5:57

it was really disappointing, but

5:59

I was just like, oh my god, this is insane. We're

6:01

obviously gonna win on the appeal, and I just

6:03

feel like I know my experience, and I know the

6:06

things that have been said to me. I know the way that we've been looked

6:08

at, you know, publicly and privately. I know

6:11

that we asked for the exact same pot of

6:13

money as the men, and I know that we are categorically

6:15

denied that because they didn't think our market value

6:18

was there or whatever they said at the time.

6:20

So it was just a matter of getting

6:22

to it and sticking to it. And I

6:24

think even just looking back, just an

6:27

other sort of movements, and

6:29

like progress in history, it's never just

6:31

like the oppressed person goes to

6:33

the oppressors like, hey, just by the

6:36

way, you're not acting really in the best way. It'd

6:38

be great if you could stop that, and they're like, oh, yeah,

6:40

perfect, okay, no problem. Oh my gosh, we had

6:42

no idea. It's long and arduous,

6:44

and it takes not only a changing of the hearts

6:47

and minds, which honestly probably comes

6:49

last, but and actually like changing

6:51

the structures in the day to day systems

6:53

of how people work and how decisions are made, and

6:55

what people are making those decisions, and who's

6:58

really at the sort of leadership to table

7:00

or in the boardroom. When you were

7:02

a little kid playing soccer with your sister

7:04

and you're like, oh, maybe I can be a professional

7:06

soccer player. Did you realize how

7:08

much more labor you would have

7:10

to do than just play on the

7:12

field, that I would have to have like ten

7:15

other jobs. Yeah? No, No,

7:17

I didn't realize that I might have just taken

7:19

an easier one job kind

7:22

of route. And how much would we all have lost?

7:24

Right, my kids coodn't have cheered on the lady with the pink

7:26

hair, Yeah right, No, I

7:29

mean I had no idea. Obviously.

7:31

It's like I knew that women's and men's

7:33

sports weren't on the same playing

7:35

field because I grew up only

7:37

watching men's sports because that's all that was on TV

7:40

really until I was probably twelve

7:42

or thirteen, and certainly with the ninety nine

7:44

World Cup that changed everything. But no,

7:46

I really had no idea. But

7:49

when you were little, you and your sister

7:51

played on co ed teams and played

7:54

on boys teams. So even

7:56

when you were little, did you see the boys being

7:58

treated differently or were you just so much better

8:00

than the boys you were kind of impervious to

8:02

that. We grew up in a pretty small

8:05

town, so I mean, my sister

8:07

and I were pretty dominant in a

8:09

lot of ways, and and definitely, like you

8:11

know, up until the gender started

8:13

to be sort of split, we were almost

8:16

better than everyone where we noticed that. We actually

8:18

played on a boys team for a period

8:20

of time. I think we were like twelve. The

8:22

boys on our team didn't really care because obviously

8:24

they knew that we were good. The boys on the other teams,

8:27

frankly didn't really seem to care. It

8:29

was the parents that really cared. And

8:32

then that sort of made the boys on the other

8:34

team be like, yeah, they shouldn't be out here,

8:36

probably because we were busting them, but I think

8:38

it was the parents frankly, just

8:40

like seeing something different and

8:43

having things be a little different, I think, and

8:45

just immediately being resistant

8:48

to that or uncurious about that.

8:50

I mean, you see that even now, it's always the old

8:53

people that are getting some of the old people that are

8:55

getting in the way. And was there a

8:57

moment where you realized that

8:59

it wasn't just fun, but it could be your job.

9:02

I think it was my freshman year of college was

9:05

my first time being brought

9:07

up to the full national team. So playing

9:09

in a couple of games and seeing Okay, they're

9:11

doing this for a living, Like Abby's

9:13

doing this for a living. She has a nice

9:16

apartment and like drives her own car. So

9:18

it kind of I think being on the national

9:20

team at that age, I was kind of like, Okay, this

9:22

is like a real thing. It does

9:25

mean something to It means a lot to me actually

9:27

as a mom of two sons, and from my five

9:29

year old, you are what he thinks that when he

9:31

thinks of soccer, and so I see

9:33

how the visibility of role models

9:37

matters. And we often in conversations

9:39

like this but a lot of time talking about how much it matters for our

9:41

daughters. It certainly does but it matters for

9:43

our sons too. It matters that our boys

9:45

look up to strong, powerful, persistent,

9:49

kind women. We'll

9:53

be right back, stay with us. One

10:06

of the things that I think so many people

10:09

admire, or the opposite admire,

10:12

but certainly for my purposes admire about

10:14

you is that you have never vowed

10:16

to the exhortations to

10:18

just be an athlete or just focus

10:20

on dribbling a ball. Is

10:22

your activism that isn't only

10:25

confined to equal pay, but thankfully is

10:27

far more capacious, something

10:30

that you kind of chose to lean into

10:32

or even when you were a

10:35

kid or a college student, part

10:38

of who you were, part of who

10:40

you've always been. I think a little

10:42

bit of both my sister and

10:44

I both I don't know why we totally

10:46

have this, but we definitely have a

10:49

bristle towards authority, and particularly

10:52

authority that we feel is like using

10:54

their power in sort of nefarious ways

10:56

or taking advantage or manipulating.

10:59

I think that's part of it. I

11:01

think our parents from a young age really

11:04

instilled in us, and I think because

11:06

we excelled at sports at such a young age,

11:08

we were kind of the cool kids in school, and

11:10

they were like okay, but to be clear, that

11:13

doesn't mean anything, and that's

11:15

not what makes you cool is the fact that

11:17

you're popular in school. What makes you like

11:19

you need to be a good person on top of that,

11:21

and also like use it for good, Like you guys

11:24

have a power, whether you want it or not, and

11:26

you have a responsibility to do

11:29

good with that. So I think that was sort of stealth

11:31

instilled in us when we were younger.

11:34

And then I think just seeing my

11:36

own reality, I mean, being on the women's national team

11:39

at a young age and starting to learn

11:41

about the pay and equity that every

11:43

person before me had experience

11:45

and that I walked into and started to experience

11:48

immediately. Being gay as

11:50

well gave me like the first foundation of what it

11:52

meant to be an ally, because I was asking

11:54

people of that before I even had the language

11:57

of ally or activists or anything.

11:59

I was like, I'm pretty sure gay marriage is the

12:01

way to go. I'm pretty sure we should just be able

12:03

to be who we are, and we need

12:05

other people to say that who aren't in you

12:08

know, our similar situation. And I

12:10

think that really set the foundation going

12:13

forward for other forms of activism, whether

12:15

it's kneeling with Colin and what he

12:17

was saying or pay equity. I think it just

12:19

became very clear to me

12:22

that we had some platform with the

12:24

national team, and there was something a little bit different

12:26

about it. I think being able to represent America

12:29

all the time and all of America.

12:32

Yeah, all of America, whether

12:34

you're like it or not, I represent you all over

12:37

the country five times

12:39

a year, and then twice every four years with

12:41

the Olympics and the World Cup. On a global stage,

12:43

it was kind of like, Okay, we're actually able

12:46

to say a lot more and bring

12:48

a broader message to a

12:50

lot of different places in the country that

12:52

maybe we don't live in or wouldn't have access

12:55

to. And I think I'm just outspoken

12:58

in general. But I think kind of like after

13:00

two thousand eleven, our our World Cup was in

13:02

Germany. We ended up losing in the final, but we

13:05

came home to like this here and you had an iconic

13:07

moment with Abby. Yeah, yeah, we did,

13:09

we did. I mean, that's probably one of the best moments

13:11

of my career. Two thousand nineteen is tough to

13:13

top. At that particular moment was

13:16

just totally insane. I still I think

13:18

I just blacked out, and I think we both lucked out

13:20

and luckily, yeah, our instincts

13:22

took over. But I was like shouting,

13:25

screaming from my living room, like

13:27

I'm sure many many fans really

13:29

wasn't saying. I think it's one of the most

13:31

exciting and like nerve wracking

13:33

sports moments ever. So I think coming

13:36

back to that and like the team blew up

13:38

and it's like we lost, I'm like, do people

13:40

even know that we? I kept saying that to all my teammates.

13:42

I'm like, I don't think people know that we But it was

13:44

an amazing game, an amazing tournament.

13:47

Yeah, they thought that was the final, and I was like, who

13:49

am I to correct them? But I think then

13:51

it was like the tides just totally

13:53

changed. And I think because we had this ever

13:56

present equal pay discrimination

13:58

going on, it was like we were constantly in

14:01

the face of discrimination

14:03

and you were winning and we were winning. Even

14:05

if you lost every game, you should still

14:07

be paid equally. But you were winning,

14:10

wildly successful and winning,

14:12

and you could see the crowd start to grow, and

14:14

our off field sponsorship was growing.

14:16

And fast forward to the World Cup in two thousand

14:18

fifteen and amazing win and then really

14:20

not seeing any kind of significant sort

14:23

of windfall financially from that, We're like, well,

14:25

this can't make sense. And then you had people chanting

14:27

at the World Cup, which was pretty

14:29

extraordinary. Yeah, and then that sort of was

14:31

the culminating moment of the whole

14:34

world and the whole soccer world just being

14:36

like this can't still be happened.

14:38

Obviously, we filed the lawsuit prior to going

14:40

to that World Cup, which put a lot of emphasis

14:43

on it. Yeah, I mean, I think it's just a little bit of a

14:45

growth into it, but it was also sort of

14:47

this natural progression like, of course,

14:49

this team is going, you know, with a bunch of

14:52

women who are strong willed, and

14:54

our only sort of permission structure

14:56

is each other. And I think that's another thing that

14:59

is really unique about us that the majority

15:01

of women do not have, is if

15:03

you're excellent at what you do, you're usually

15:05

one or one of very few,

15:08

whether that's you're just excelling

15:10

in your you know, particular discipline,

15:12

or if you're in a c suite, you're probably

15:14

the only one or you know, one of two. But for

15:16

us, there's like twenty three of us

15:19

all the time, and so we're all just constantly

15:21

looking at each other like this is okay, right, and we're all

15:23

like, yeah, I think it's fine. And so

15:25

we sort of get that confidence. We sort

15:27

of know what our reality is, and

15:30

we validate that for each other and

15:32

we don't gaslight each other. We have dealt

15:34

with that with the Federation for years and years

15:36

and years, and I think having that

15:38

sort of support around us all the time from

15:40

each other was the thing that tipped it over the edge,

15:43

especially when you haven't always been supported by US

15:45

soccer itself. And you

15:47

mentioned earlier how you took a knee shortly after

15:50

Colin Kaepernick in and

15:53

that was a fairly intense here, you know,

15:55

certainly in my life, but also the life of our country.

15:58

But to see the hypocrisy of the people and the

16:00

institution's condemning Colin and then

16:02

embracing the Confederate flag being

16:04

worn and waved so painfully

16:07

probably a Trump rallies was a lot of

16:09

cognitive dissonance for me, and I can't

16:11

imagine how much cognitive

16:13

dissonance it must have been for you

16:16

when it seemed so clear to you why you were

16:18

making that choice, and yet, like US soccer

16:20

was not terribly supportive of you. That's

16:24

one way to put it. I mean I think that

16:26

they were wholly unsupportive and

16:28

through me under the bus completely. That's

16:30

how it felt to me. No, I

16:32

mean so unsupportive. And to bring

16:35

up gasline again, that sort of same idea

16:37

of like, we're just not even going to listen to what

16:40

you have to say. No one feels this way. You're totally

16:43

going against the or it's not your play

16:45

country. Yeah, it's not my place. Just

16:47

be proud, just feel grateful

16:50

to wear the shirt, which, by

16:52

the way, I earned to put the shirt

16:54

on. You didn't give me the opportunity to wear

16:56

the shirt. I earned that myself and

16:58

with my teammates, as all of my teammate to do.

17:01

And we represent the entire country. We represent

17:03

Colin Kaepernick, we represent the Federation, we

17:05

represent black and brown people, we represent straight

17:08

people, we represent middle of America and to

17:10

the coast. To me, I don't understand

17:12

how people don't see how it's all connected.

17:15

The way that our federation treated

17:18

us, with the dismissiveness and

17:20

the lack of respect, rings

17:23

true with Trump stalking your mom

17:25

on the stage at a debate,

17:28

which rings true with what he

17:30

said about immigrants coming across

17:32

the border, which rings true

17:34

with what Greg Abbott is doing in Texas right

17:36

now, attacking trans families and trans

17:39

kids in particular. So to me, it's like

17:41

the power structure wants everything to stay

17:43

the same forever, and

17:46

it, you know, just so happens. Almost everyone

17:48

was cut out of the original design

17:50

and the power structure, and we're just supposed to find

17:52

our way in there. I feel

17:54

like whenever i'm you know, sort of taking

17:56

a stand with something, I never think of who I'm talking

17:59

to. I'm who I'm talking with, and

18:01

it's always way more than that one person.

18:04

I mean Trump in particular, when he tweeted

18:06

at me and tweeted at the team during

18:08

the World Cup, it was obviously a page

18:10

out of his old playbook, like go attack a powerful

18:12

woman, hopefully throw her off her game, distraction.

18:16

Heap the whole of the troll world

18:19

onto me, and we'll just see how this person

18:21

falls apart. Because it's difficult, but

18:23

I always feel like there's so much more of

18:26

us than there is of them fighting for it. So

18:28

that's kind of where I find my power

18:30

and my strength in that. Even though it is

18:33

difficult to stare down your boss, or stare down

18:35

the President of the United States. Unfortunate

18:38

president. Yeah,

18:41

we're taking a quick break. Stay with

18:43

us. I'm

18:55

an optimist partly because I think cynicism

18:58

is the preserve of people

19:00

who don't want anything to change, who spent

19:03

a lot of time, energy, and money, often

19:05

convincing those of us who do want to see

19:07

change that it's not worth it, it's

19:09

too hard, it's impossible. And

19:12

clearly, Megan, so many

19:14

people look up to you, and you inspire so many

19:16

people, and I just I'm curious when you

19:19

were a girl or a young player, where

19:21

there players or other women that

19:23

you really looked up to who

19:25

you drew inspiration from their

19:27

tenacity, their persistence.

19:30

Now, until it was a little bit older. To be

19:32

honest, looking back, I don't feel like I had

19:34

a lot of access to female

19:37

professional athletes. Really. I

19:40

grew up watching Michael Jordan and the Bulls.

19:42

I mean, I remember the day the w NBA

19:44

was created. I was like a junior in high

19:46

school and I was like, Oh, there's finally going

19:48

to be a women's professional basketball

19:51

league. I must have been like ten and

19:53

that happened. So it wasn't until

19:56

I would say a couple of years before the

19:59

World Cup, where I started to go to

20:01

a couple of games and see that there was

20:03

women doing what I loved to do

20:06

in a stadium and playing for the national

20:08

team, and seemingly this was their job.

20:10

So I would say, it really wasn't until then

20:13

that I feel like I even had the opportunity

20:15

to have a real role

20:17

model or an inspiration that

20:19

I could connect with, that you could see yourself

20:22

in. And so when

20:25

soccer players or other athletes

20:27

who are younger women starting off in

20:29

their careers or maybe even thinking about how to

20:31

begin their careers come and ask you for

20:33

advice, what do you tell them? Oh,

20:36

gosh, um,

20:38

it's not fair, but you're going to have to do more.

20:41

And I think just wrapping your head

20:43

around that really early on is

20:46

beneficial. You will have it better

20:48

than anyone has ever had it, but certainly

20:50

there's so much room two

20:54

make it even better for the next generation

20:57

and take pride in that. I think that's just a

20:59

reality. I think be absolutely

21:02

as fearless as you possibly can. I

21:04

always look at it like the world was not designed

21:07

for me anyways. So

21:09

the more time I spend trying to

21:12

you know, squeeze myself into this pinhole,

21:14

the more miserable I'll become. So build

21:17

your own, build your own coalitions, build

21:19

your own sense of confidence with

21:21

people who not just are like minded.

21:24

I think you need that challenge and that difference of opinion,

21:27

but ultimately who do see

21:29

the world in a similar fashion and

21:31

and see you as whole. Don't

21:34

ever let anyone tell you who

21:36

you are, what you are, the limits of what

21:38

you can be, not even yourself. I think,

21:41

always shoot for absolutely

21:43

everything and just see where you end up.

21:46

And I think to enjoy it as well. I

21:48

feel like there is a lot of hard about

21:50

it, and there is a lot of struggle, but there's so much

21:53

joy as well as Game has obviously brought me, you

21:55

know, so much joy, but there's joy in the struggle

21:57

too. It's it's joyful to be able to, you

22:00

know, barb at the status quo

22:02

and poke the bear and to constantly

22:05

be pushing forward because it's like, you know,

22:07

you have the thing that matters on your side, which

22:10

is the truth, and the truth is a really

22:12

hard thing to go against, especially when you

22:14

have a coalition to people or a team or people

22:16

in your corner who are willing to do the same

22:18

thing and are fighting on that same wavelength.

22:21

And I know you and your sister spend

22:24

time with kids who are playing soccer, and

22:27

I wonder what you're like as a coach

22:29

and a mentor for kids. Not

22:32

a good coach from a great hype person. I'm

22:34

a great hype woman. I mean, because I

22:36

hate to say this to be its parents, I don't

22:38

know if you have aspirations for your kids to become professional

22:40

athletes, but like more than likely

22:43

they're not going to. If they're going to be

22:45

a professional athletes, like you're gonna know, first

22:47

of all, they're gonna be better than everyone basically

22:49

at every level, and like they're going to be exceptional

22:52

and you won't really have to do all

22:54

that much. But it's the kindness, it's the

22:56

bravery. You know, it's all the cliches, but

22:58

it's like the sportsmanship and the team work

23:00

and the conflict resolution. Then

23:02

then just for the kids to have fun. I feel like that's

23:04

a little bit getting a little bit lost. Youth

23:07

sports is just this. I

23:09

think it's been like monetized quite a bit,

23:12

and I think just the fact

23:15

that kids need to play

23:17

and play with each other and do physical

23:20

activity and have the conflict

23:22

resolution and just be creative

23:25

in their own bodies is something that I

23:27

think is really being missed because reality is that

23:31

these kids aren't going to become professional soccer players

23:33

or you know, athletes, and they shouldn't feel like a failure

23:36

because of that. That's just kind

23:38

of the reality of it. I think that's kind of how they're made

23:40

to feel, is like, well, if I'm not going to be you know, Megan

23:43

or Peno, is it even worth playing soccer? And

23:45

it's like, well, yeah, yeah,

23:47

it absolutely is. The last question

23:50

I want to ask, which we're asking everyone in

23:52

this series, is is there one

23:54

statistic or fact or anecdote

23:57

about women in soccer or women

23:59

in sports more broadly in the United States

24:02

that either really

24:04

inspires you or

24:06

enrages you. But knowing you, if it enrages

24:09

you, it also probably inspires you. Oh

24:13

um.

24:16

I think what enrages and inspires me. I

24:18

don't have a number or a statistic

24:20

for it, likely because it doesn't exist,

24:23

but the

24:25

opportunities lost. And

24:28

I think when people think about pay equity

24:31

or think about equality,

24:33

it's always like, okay, well I was paid you know seven

24:36

dollars and I should have been paid ten, So

24:38

there's a three dollar difference,

24:40

well kind of, but also

24:42

what would I have done with those three dollars?

24:45

And what would ten dollars have allowed

24:47

me to do as opposed to seven?

24:49

And if we, you know, put women on TV

24:52

all the time, do people

24:54

like women's sports better? Probably?

24:57

I don't want to know everything

24:59

I know a about Lebron James, but

25:02

I know a lot because he's

25:04

on my TV. So it's like, I

25:06

think the the just loss

25:09

of all of that is most

25:12

frustrating to me, because particularly

25:14

as I've become more successful and being able

25:16

to make more money and been able to make decisions

25:19

on my own and sort of create a business around myself

25:21

where I see myself whole and

25:24

the other people around me see me whole, and now

25:26

we can go to companies and pitch myself

25:29

like this and tell them

25:31

basically what they need to pay me,

25:33

or tell them how they should be looking

25:35

at me, instead of always letting other people

25:37

sort of put the limits on. So I

25:39

think we're starting to see that more,

25:43

and that's why representation matters. That's why, like you

25:45

were just saying with your son, your son doesn't he's

25:48

not looking at me and saying like, oh, I like that female

25:50

gay soccer player. He just knows I'm

25:52

a soccer player, and so the representation

25:54

for him is not that he's going to be me

25:57

per se, but that he knows that a woman

26:00

me exists, and then that

26:02

shapes how he views himself and how

26:04

he views other men and how he views other

26:06

women. And so for me, it's all that's taken

26:09

away from us that we're slowly

26:12

starting to claw back. That's the

26:14

most frustrating because it's like this thing you

26:16

can't quantify. It's like, you know, if I only had

26:18

five dollars, what would I have done if

26:20

I had? And

26:22

it's just that sort of opportunity loss

26:24

that will never know. So you can make up back

26:26

pay, or you can have a different salary

26:28

or whatever, but for what has already transpired

26:31

there, there kind of is no justice

26:33

for that. So, on a more optimistic

26:36

note, though, hopefully the younger

26:38

players on the national team, the

26:41

women who will compete in the next World Cup,

26:43

and all of the women who

26:45

will come after, hopefully

26:49

I won't even know what you're talking about

26:51

again, because hopefully their reality will be

26:53

so profoundly different because

26:55

you and your teammates thought

26:58

so hard for that to be true. I mean,

27:00

honestly, it already is. I mean, I

27:02

think to answer your last question more

27:04

optimistically or in a more positive way, like

27:06

it just feels like it's exploding, Like we

27:09

had our experience in two thousand nineteen, and

27:11

I think that was a windfall for other sports as well.

27:13

The w n b A just raised that

27:17

is that is real money.

27:19

That's incredible. So it's like as

27:22

we start to clawback

27:24

or work towards equality or however you want to say,

27:26

it's just exponential growth

27:29

all the time, all the

27:31

time for all the sports, and it's snowballs

27:33

and we're all connected and we can

27:35

really feed off each other. And it's like the things that

27:37

the kids are saying now, they're like upset

27:39

that they're not chartering everywhere, Like do you

27:41

guys know how much private planes costs? Do

27:43

you know how much it costs a charter? Like, but

27:46

they're like, yeah, we deserve it, And I'm like, who am I

27:48

to tell you that you don't. They're already living

27:51

in a different reality, and

27:53

then they're creating that reality and creating

27:55

that reality and continuing to push those boundaries,

27:57

and for me personally to be able to watch, I know, for

27:59

my teammates, for us to be able

28:01

to in real time when we're still

28:04

young and in our career see that

28:06

the world has changed for the

28:08

better. That's the crowning achievement

28:10

for sure. And then we just have to protect

28:12

that progress, right because there

28:15

are a lot of forces trying to tear

28:17

it down. Lord, thank

28:19

you so much for your time. Yeah, it was so

28:21

nice to be able to chat with you. Thanks for having me on. You

28:26

can find Megan on Twitter at impino

28:28

and on Instagram at m Rapino, and

28:31

you can find her memoir One Life

28:33

wherever books are sold. In

28:39

Fact is brought to you by I Heart Radio. We

28:41

are produced by a mighty group of women

28:44

and one amazing man, Erica

28:46

Goodmanson, Mart Harror, Sarah

28:48

Horowitz, Jessmin Molly and Justin

28:50

Wright, with help from Lindsay Hoffman,

28:53

Barry Lurie, Joyce Kuban, Julie

28:55

Supran, Mike Taylor, and Emily Young.

28:58

Original music is by just and Write.

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