0:48

Hello everyone and welcome to In

0:50

Her Good Books . I'm

0:52

Jen and I'm Carolyn . You're

0:55

not Shanna , I'm not Shanna . Once

0:57

again , we have Carolyn in the

1:00

studio , which is actually a

1:02

blanket fort , but blanket forts are

1:04

the most fun . Yeah , it's very . Oh

1:06

, I was going to let us a candle . No romance

1:08

for us , no .

1:09

Just blanket fort with no light

1:12

.

1:12

No , that's okay

1:14

. Shanna was

1:16

supposed to be here but she

1:19

didn't read the book . Are you guys surprised

1:22

? I read the book and I loved it . Yes

1:24

, sorry , shanna , we love you

1:26

. We love you , but but everyone knows

1:28

you didn't read the book . Which

1:32

book are we talking about ? We haven't even told anybody Lessons

1:34

in Chemistry . We have a book

1:36

by Bonnie Garmas

1:39

. We haven't done a full

1:41

book episode in a long

1:44

time .

1:45

No , I think it's been a while and I've never

1:47

participated in a full book episode .

1:49

Yes this is your first time so

1:51

. I'm going to have to remember so much of this book

1:53

. Luckily I've written it all down .

1:55

And all I have to do is read

1:57

my own notes .

1:59

Yes , and you're here for the jokes . You brought jokes right

2:01

. So full of jokes , it's my specialty

2:04

. So , yes , lessons

2:06

in Chemistry . I

2:08

really wanted to do this book because we

2:11

read it for Book Club and it's huge .

2:14

It's all over the place and it's worth the hype

2:16

. In my opinion , it's fantastic .

2:18

Yeah , it was really really good and

2:20

yeah , I've seen it everywhere . It's been

2:22

on my list for a long time to read , but

2:24

I just kept not , and I

2:26

don't really know why .

2:29

It's just . Is it orange

2:31

? Is it because the cover's orange ?

2:33

I think the cover is a little bit

2:35

misleading . Yeah , the cover

2:37

is very cutesy .

2:39

And the book is not cutesy , in my mind

2:41

anyways .

2:42

No , I thought it was a romance . There's

2:44

romance . There is romance , but

2:46

I thought it was a romance genre

2:49

.

2:49

Oh , looking at the cover , I thought it was young adult

2:51

fiction .

2:52

No , thanks , right , exactly

2:54

.

2:55

But it's not young adult

2:57

fiction . No , it is not

3:00

. It is strong , independent woman

3:02

. Tackles big topics , yep , but

3:04

in a way that's hilarious with food .

3:06

Yeah , and any time you're reading books

3:09

about women , you're

3:11

gonna encounter some problems

3:13

. Yes , so

3:15

this book was published in April 2022

3:18

and it became just a sensation

3:20

immediately . In fact , it was

3:22

actually one of those magic books that didn't just get

3:24

published , it was auctioned . Then

3:27

the TV rights were also

3:29

auctioned and it was immediately made into

3:31

a television series on Apple TV , starring

3:34

Brie Larson , who I don't really

3:36

know who that is .

3:37

I'm not sure either . I do kind of want

3:39

to get Apple TV now . I don't have it

3:41

, but I do want to watch this series .

3:42

I want to watch the show yeah .

3:44

One of my friends has it and I was like I may

3:46

just hang out in your basement one Saturday

3:48

for hours . You can pretend I'm not

3:51

there , but I will borrow your Apple TV .

3:52

Yes , yeah , I do want to watch it

3:55

too . When I looked up Brie

3:57

Larson , it was a lot of like Marvel

3:59

stuff , so I think Shanna probably knows

4:01

who she is . Oh yeah , shanna would know for sure Like

4:03

the .

4:04

Avengers Hmm , which

4:06

means I've probably seen her before .

4:08

Yeah , she definitely is familiar , but

4:10

not an actress that I'm super

4:12

familiar with . But the show

4:15

came out in October 2023 , so it

4:17

was like a year and a half late , like

4:19

they immediately started making that show .

4:21

I bet you Brie Larson is super famous and

4:23

we're gonna sound so sad , I know , so silly for not knowing

4:26

who she is .

4:27

I don't know anyone . I don't watch I

4:29

only know John Cusack

4:31

, Sandra Bullock .

4:33

I know the Rock First

4:38

name basis .

4:39

Of course . So this was Bonnie

4:41

Garmas' first published novel and

4:44

at the end of the audiobook there

4:46

was an interview with her and she talks about

4:48

how she could not

4:50

believe what was happening

4:53

when her book was being auctioned

4:55

. She kept waking

4:57

up in the middle of the night and rushing to her computer

4:59

to check to make sure that , like the emails were there

5:02

and it was really happening , and her husband

5:04

had to be like , go back to bed . Go to

5:06

bed , this is real , and

5:08

I'm trying to sleep too . Yes

5:10

, and oh

5:13

my gosh , could you imagine that

5:15

?

5:15

is the dream . It's the dream , it's

5:17

my real dream . You

5:19

know , I would abandon Strata . Yeah For

5:22

being a published novelist . Yeah .

5:23

And she is Now she is . That's

5:26

her full-time job .

5:26

Now is writing Me and Carolyn

5:28

are both writers , so it's

5:31

true , I do a lot of writing that doesn't

5:33

go outside of writing club , but I did submit

5:36

something to the CBC nonfiction prize . So

5:38

$6,000 in writing . Residency I'm

5:40

coming for you . Yeah , you're going to win . This

5:43

is it . If I have long list , I would

5:45

be the happiest person ever .

5:47

Yes , but .

5:48

Canada has way too many amazing

5:50

writers .

5:50

We really do , but you are also one

5:53

of them . Oh , thank you . So are you , and

5:55

you submitted , I did

5:57

. So that's a big deal , just

5:59

writing something that you feel good enough to submit

6:02

to a contest .

6:03

It is terrifying . Yes .

6:05

I didn't submit anything because I can only write long

6:08

books , not even long books . I

6:10

can write regular length books , not

6:12

short stories .

6:13

Short stories are up , my alley Long

6:15

books are not .

6:17

Yeah , we're opposite .

6:20

She did this before she turned 65

6:22

?

6:22

Yeah , so there's hope for us

6:24

there is . Yeah , I was going to say

6:27

this book was published just a few days before

6:29

she turned 65 . So we

6:31

just keep doing what we love . We still have time .

6:33

I have 25.5

6:35

months to get there . Yeah

6:37

, years , years , damn , I'm

6:42

almost turning 40 . It's terrifying .

6:43

Yes , I know

6:46

a few years , but we have lost time to become successful

6:48

authors .

6:48

So much time to have our novels auctioned

6:50

off ? Yeah , better start writing now

6:52

.

6:54

Yes , which we do at Writing Group . Yeah

6:56

, so just a little tiny

6:59

bit of information about Bonnie Garmes . She was

7:01

born on April 18 , 1957

7:03

in California , but she's mostly from Seattle

7:05

, washington , and she's also lived

7:07

in Switzerland and Columbia , but

7:09

now she lives in London with her family . I

7:12

love Seattle , me too . I

7:15

love Washington . I love the

7:17

whole Pacific Northwest .

7:18

Yeah , me too . I've always wanted to go to Columbia

7:21

. I have a friend who owns a hotel there . Nice

7:23

, switzerland , I have been to

7:25

, and London I have not , unless London

7:27

Ontario counts , which really I don't know

7:30

if that's the London she's talking about

7:32

, I think , probably London , england

7:34

is what I'm talking about London , full of

7:36

castles and I

7:38

love London .

7:39

Yeah , I think you like to read the synopsis

7:41

for this book , because we know how much

7:44

you love reading the synopsis

7:46

for books .

7:47

Synopsis , my specialty , take

7:49

it away , chemist . Elizabeth Sought is

7:51

not your average woman . In fact , elizabeth

7:53

Sought would be the first to point out that there's

7:55

no such thing as an average woman . But

7:58

it's the early 1960s and her all-male

8:00

team at Hastings Research Institute

8:02

takes a very unscientific view of equality

8:05

, except for one , calvin Evans

8:07

, the lonely , brilliant , noble , prize-nominated

8:09

grudge-holder who falls in love with , of

8:12

all things , her mind . True chemistry

8:14

results . But like science

8:16

, life is unpredictable , which is why , a

8:19

few years later , elizabeth Sought finds herself

8:21

not only a single mother but the reluctant

8:23

star of America's most beloved cooking show

8:25

, supper at Six . Elizabeth's unusual

8:27

approach to cooking combined

8:29

one tablespoon of acetic acid with a

8:32

pinch of sodium chloride proves revolutionary

8:34

. But as her following grows , not everyone

8:36

is happy because , as it turns out

8:39

, elizabeth Sought isn't just teaching women to cook

8:41

, she's daring them to change the status

8:43

quo .

8:44

I wanted to point out that this book

8:46

is pretty full of hard scenes

8:48

. So big content warnings for

8:50

sexual assault , suicide , sudden death

8:53

and like a whole bunch of other stuff . But those

8:55

were the big ones that stood out to

8:57

me .

8:58

There were some pretty shocking scenes

9:00

in the book .

9:01

Yes , especially if you're going in expecting

9:03

a romance . Yes , young adult fiction

9:06

romance . Yes , the first scene

9:08

is basically a horrific rape . Yeah

9:10

, that's pretty funny . So , yeah

9:13

, watch out for that if those are things that

9:15

you are sensitive to . So

9:17

before we get into spoilers , what

9:19

did you think of it , Carolyn ?

9:21

Well , I picked up this book because my favorite

9:23

cousin recommended it to me as her favorite

9:26

read of 2023 . My

9:28

cousin was a competitive rower when she was

9:30

younger . She got a full ride scholarship

9:32

to a college in the States for rowing and now she's a professor

9:35

there . She also loves to bake and

9:37

cook , so I went in with high hopes

9:39

and Bonnie nailed it . It

9:41

immediately became my favorite read so far

9:44

of 2024 , which I mean it's only

9:46

February , but still Five

9:48

stars for me . I tend to read more

9:50

for character development and thought process

9:52

, so I didn't notice the convenient plot

9:55

holes that some pointed out until

9:58

they got mentioned at Book Club , but

10:00

I don't think anything will be able to ruin

10:02

this book for me . I'm in love .

10:04

Before we get into what I thought you

10:07

want to tell the story about your five

10:09

star review . No , no , I don't really

10:11

want to tell the story . Yes , you

10:14

have to Okay . It's the best story

10:16

that's ever happened to me .

10:18

It was a little bit embarrassing

10:21

. I went on to Goodreads

10:23

to review what I thought

10:25

was lessons in chemistry and I must have

10:27

been doing it late at night because I stayed up

10:29

late to finish the book and I must

10:32

have started typing lessons in and

10:34

accidentally hit this really exciting

10:37

looking book called Lessons in Sin , and

10:42

I wish I would have written down what my review

10:44

is . I will find it .

10:46

Just you wait , Just

10:48

wait and look in . I read a lot

10:50

. It's going to be hard to find . Well , I took a screenshot

10:53

. Oh , thanks , there , it is Okay

10:55

. So this is what happened to me . I'm

10:57

just sitting at home and

11:00

I get an email that's like updates

11:02

on Caro's reading

11:04

, Goodreads , whatever , and usually

11:07

I don't really like to look at my friends' stuff

11:09

because we all talk about it at Book Club , but

11:11

every once in a while I'm like sure . So I click

11:13

on it and

11:17

it says Caro rated Lessons

11:19

in Sin five stars and

11:21

this is the review . You

11:27

know it's going to be a good year when my second read

11:29

of the year is already five stars . My

11:31

heart swelled and broke and ached and

11:33

hoped inside . This is a work of

11:35

art . Underneath that is

11:38

a picture of a man , a shirtless man

11:40

, hands

11:42

held in prayer in front of

11:44

a stained glass window . Lessons

11:47

in Sin by Pam Godwin .

11:51

It was so hard to undo that I read

11:53

it , that I've rated it , that I wrote a haul

11:56

review for the wrong book .

11:58

Oh my God . I said it to her and said I

12:02

know you've been reading some weird stuff this year

12:04

, but I don't think this

12:06

was on purpose .

12:09

It has since been corrected and

12:12

will go down as huh . That's

12:15

a good mistake from me , since I typically

12:17

don't make those kind of errors in my life

12:19

.

12:20

No , I was very surprised , but

12:22

it was the most favorite thing that's

12:25

happened to me so far this year . Five stars

12:27

from me .

12:28

Lessons in Sin . I might read it , by the way

12:30

. If it's like $2.99 on

12:32

Kindle . It might just be worth it , and maybe I'll

12:34

love it too , maybe .

12:36

Maybe this you can just copy and paste . Yeah , my

12:38

heart swelled and soared

12:41

. Work of art . Oh

12:46

, it just makes me so happy to think that everybody

12:49

that's on your friend's list on Goodreads got

12:51

this evening . Thanks .

12:53

Thanks for that Imagine you wouldn't

12:55

have told me . It would have just

12:57

been there for

13:00

a month until Book Club . When

13:02

I go through it to be like this is what I read

13:04

. I would have been like I did not read that I

13:08

wish .

13:08

I haven't , I haven't , I

13:11

haven't . So

13:13

yeah , my plan is

13:16

to post a picture of this review on our Instagram

13:18

.

13:18

Oh yeah , because you screen-shotted it and I

13:20

deleted it .

13:21

Yeah .

13:22

But nothing's permanently deleted on the internet ever .

13:24

No , especially when I screen-shot everything I see .

13:27

Thanks for that , jen . What did

13:29

you think of the real book that

13:31

we read ? Lessons in Chemistry .

13:32

Okay , yes , this is about lessons in chemistry

13:34

. I thought

13:36

that this book was written for the screen . I

13:39

like to describe books like this as cinematic

13:42

, and I don't know if that is the proper

13:44

term for what I'm describing , but

13:46

I have not seen the

13:48

TV show Me neither , but

13:51

I could see it so clearly in my

13:53

mind . Yeah , I can picture the

13:55

kitchen set totally , I could see

13:58

everything , and it's interesting

14:00

because I recently realized that I can't

14:02

visualize things .

14:04

I thought I didn't when the question came

14:06

up , but the more I try

14:09

pay attention when I'm reading , I'm like , no , I

14:11

pictured this book . I have

14:13

ideas of how people looked , how

14:15

630 looked , how the

14:18

kitchen set looked , and I'm glad I

14:20

pictured things .

14:21

Most of the time I just have a vague idea of

14:24

what things are like . Or

14:26

I can insert different actors

14:28

or actresses in a role

14:30

in a book . I can't make up a person

14:33

. If they're describing something I can't , my

14:35

mind doesn't fill in the blanks Like

14:37

I don't see it . So I

14:40

was really surprised , as I was reading this book

14:42

, that I could see it all .

14:44

That's just .

14:44

Bonnie so good . Yeah , the way that she was describing

14:47

everything , I could see it

14:49

. I thought that was amazing and I really like

14:51

that time period . I

14:53

really liked the 50s and 60s , so

14:56

I think , naturally , me

14:59

being able to picture that made

15:01

sense , made sense . Yeah , I thought

15:03

that was really good and so I think the show would

15:05

be amazing . But , yeah , the book was

15:07

written very vividly and I think that that takes

15:09

a lot of talent . I also thought that the story

15:11

was really unique and so

15:14

, unlike any book that I've ever read , yeah

15:16

, I can't picture an other book

15:18

that is like this

15:21

one .

15:22

No , I can't think of anything .

15:24

I love strong female characters . I

15:28

thought it was really funny . It was clever . Yeah

15:30

, it was a bit dark , but

15:32

I mean , I like dark .

15:34

And the topics are not happy

15:36

butterfly topics that she tackles

15:38

. So it has to be dark .

15:40

Yes , yeah , I thought it was great . I

15:43

think I would give it 4.75

15:45

stars . What would push

15:47

that 0.25 to 5 ? Just

15:49

because I didn't love it

15:52

? It's not on my list of now favorite

15:54

books , but I think she did

15:56

a really great job of writing it . I

15:59

think it was such a well done

16:01

book . It deserves a high rating

16:03

. So if it was one

16:05

of my favorite books , 5

16:07

stars . It's just not quite

16:10

there . Fair , but so close Totally

16:12

. If I was more generous

16:14

If you were me , if I was you

16:17

, definitely 5 stars . I

16:19

think it deserves 5 stars , but I think , just

16:21

based on my own experience

16:24

with it , 4.75 . And that's high

16:26

for me , I think .

16:27

That is high for you . I only

16:30

give 5 stars to books I think about

16:32

long after I finish

16:34

reading them , and if they are books , I will

16:36

reread . That's why it got 5 for me .

16:39

And I don't think I would reread it , but I

16:41

would recommend it to people for sure

16:43

. And I did have like

16:45

a few complaints . My main

16:47

one was that a lot

16:49

of the plot was a little bit too convenient for me

16:52

and we'll get a little bit

16:54

more into that when we get into

16:56

spoiler territory . But

16:58

let's just say that the pieces fell into place

17:00

a little too neatly and

17:02

evenly .

17:04

I can say that's

17:07

not wrong .

17:12

That plot is never really what I focus on , yeah

17:15

, which for me I'm more

17:17

there for the plot . So , yeah

17:19

, for me it was just like there was a few times where

17:21

I was a little bit eye-rolly

17:24

, but sometimes I love a good eye-roll

17:26

. Yeah , I mean it didn't make

17:28

me not like the book , no , it worked in the story and

17:31

I mean sometimes life is like that

17:33

.

17:33

Sometimes things weirdly actually fall

17:36

into place in a strange way .

17:38

Sometimes Shanna pulls the death card every single time she

17:40

does tarot .

17:41

Sometimes , no matter what , seven of cups shows up , yep

17:43

.

17:44

Like it's just . Sometimes life is just like that

17:46

, so I mean it's not totally unbelievable , but

17:49

it was something that I noticed quite a few times in this

17:51

book . Okay

18:05

, we are gonna get into spoilers , so if you have not

18:07

read this book , stop listening

18:09

.

18:09

Spoilers , spoilers don't bother you , keep

18:11

listening .

18:12

Then keep listening , but just so you know we will be getting

18:14

into everything . Okay

18:16

. So the book starts in November

18:18

1961 . We have

18:21

a scientist named Elisabeth Zott who

18:23

notices that her daughter is losing weight

18:25

and she finds out that it is because another girl

18:27

at school has been eating her lunches . So

18:30

Elisabeth storms into the television

18:32

studio that this girl's father works at

18:34

and demands that he do something about it . Instead

18:36

, he offers her a lot of money to host

18:38

a cooking show called Separate Six . I

18:42

really loved how the book started

18:44

. It kind of got me right away .

18:46

Yeah , about 28 pages in . I had

18:48

given it five stars already .

18:50

Yes , that's right , which I thought was pretty

18:52

impressive . So this guy

18:54

, I think his name is Walter-

18:56

We'll find

18:59

out later . We'll find out later when I actually

19:01

put his name into the document , because

19:04

, if anybody remembers , I have

19:07

a hard time remembering

19:09

secondary characters when

19:11

I first started a book . I think they're not going to matter

19:14

, but this guy

19:16

he was basically completely

19:18

captivated and stunned by Elisabeth . The

19:22

lunches that she made for her daughter were

19:25

amazing .

19:25

Yeah , she can cook me dinner any night and

19:28

I'll take her leftovers to work .

19:29

Yes , they

19:31

were homemade , nutritionally

19:33

balanced , delicious . She

19:35

used science to make sure that

19:38

this kid was getting every

19:40

nutrient that they needed and the appropriate

19:43

amount that they needed for the amount

19:45

of calories they needed in the day . I

19:47

need Elisabeth in my life . Yes

19:49

, yes , I do .

19:50

We then skip back a decade , to January of 1952

19:53

. Elisabeth is working as a chemist at a

19:55

research institute . We learn that she

19:57

had once been going for her doctorate , but

19:59

her acceptance was rescinded after one member of

20:02

the faculty sexually assaulted her and

20:04

she refused to apologize for defending herself against

20:06

him .

20:06

This scene was actually quite upsetting

20:09

and I was really happy

20:11

when she stabbed him in the side with a pencil

20:13

.

20:14

Yeah , he deserved that and so much more

20:16

.

20:16

So much more , she

20:18

stabbed him with a pencil so

20:21

deep that it perforated

20:23

his intestines . Good , good , oh

20:25

my god . I was not expecting this . No

20:28

, me neither At all . And

20:30

then , of course , she lost her spot in the program , which was

20:32

infuriating , and the

20:35

police were like would you like to apologize

20:37

for assaulting this man ?

20:39

Yeah , what were you wearing when you got raped

20:41

is essentially still going on today .

20:44

Yes , I was just . Oh

20:46

my gosh , and she doesn't . She does not

20:48

apologize , nope , and so she loses her spot

20:50

. Oh my god , this whole book

20:52

was just about

20:54

women being subjected

20:56

to inequality and sexual harassment in

20:58

the workplace Again , not what I was

21:00

expecting , but also so

21:02

prevalent and still a

21:04

problem . This was set in the 60s . Shouldn't

21:07

things be starting to get better ?

21:09

You would hope so . Yeah , because I

21:11

actually had to put the book down for a few minutes

21:13

after that scene . It was vicious and aggressive

21:16

and it made me so angry because it still

21:18

happens today . Women still get

21:20

raped and are still blamed for it . Some

21:23

men still wield power and coercion in

21:25

society and the workplace and they think they're entitled

21:27

to just take whatever they want Not

21:29

all men , obviously , and there are some pretty terrible

21:32

women out there too , by the way but still the

21:34

scene left me furious , Furious

21:36

. I actually couldn't sleep

21:38

that night because I just laid there thinking

21:41

about all the times they stuff . I was gonna

21:43

say this shit , but I don't know , I

21:45

mean this garbage has happened to me in

21:47

my life and is still happening

21:49

all the time , everywhere .

21:51

Yes , so at

21:53

this research facility she meets a famous

21:55

chemist named Calvin Evans when

21:57

she crafts this whole scheme to steal

22:00

his beakers . He's not too

22:02

grabby about it , but she needed

22:04

the beakers . No one would give her any , so she

22:06

found a way to access the excess of beakers

22:08

that Calvin had . As a result , she

22:10

got taken off of her research project and put

22:12

onto a lower level one . I mean , they thought

22:15

it was pretty smart yeah .

22:16

I thought it was excellent . I too would

22:18

take something if someone else had way more

22:21

than they needed , and I needed one

22:23

or two for my important experiment

22:25

. Yes , she's there to do research

22:28

. She is actually employed there

22:30

. It's not like she's sneaking in no .

22:33

But of course she gets in trouble for it . And then the next time

22:35

she meets Calvin

22:37

, it's at a theater . Calvin's there on

22:39

a date when he suddenly falls ill . He

22:42

abandons his date who was a real bitch

22:44

, by the way and

22:46

runs to the bathroom to pee and puke . Instead

22:49

he bumps into Elizabeth and pukes all over her

22:51

. I laughed . I know he

22:53

is mortified , but

22:56

she takes it actually quite well .

22:57

I would have puked too .

22:58

If someone barfs on me , I'm gonna barf

23:01

. Oh my gosh , it just reminds me

23:03

of . Carolyn was at my house

23:05

for a party and my

23:08

youngest had a runny nose

23:10

and I was looking around for a tissue for her and

23:13

I couldn't find one . I was like , oh , that's so far away . I was like

23:15

I'll just use this sock . I

23:18

wiped Vada's nose with her . It's her own sock

23:20

, it's not just my dirty sock , but

23:23

I wipe her nose with the sock and then Vada's

23:25

playing with it and then she throws it and

23:27

we're like where's that sock ? And someone's like it's

23:29

on Carolyn's leg .

23:32

And it was the worst part of that evening

23:34

, the rest of the evening phenomenal Me

23:37

sitting there with a snot sock against my

23:39

leg . It was too

23:41

much .

23:41

Oh my god . I just look at Carolyn

23:43

. She's frozen with fear

23:45

. She's like get it off , get it off

23:48

yeah .

23:51

So bodily fluids

23:53

that aren't mine don't

23:56

belong on me .

23:57

No , no , and that's fair .

24:00

But she took it really well . Yeah , she did . She

24:03

didn't even have kids back then , no she didn't .

24:05

So she was just like it's fine , you're obviously

24:07

ill , let me help you , and

24:10

I'm just like man . You

24:12

are amazing , did you ?

24:14

have a crush on him already ? I don't think so . There

24:16

was no tension the first time she met him , stealing

24:18

his beakers .

24:19

Actually , I think maybe there was a little bit of chemistry

24:21

, because they had

24:23

lots of it . Oh , they were the best , yes . So

24:27

after he pukes on her , she takes care of him a little

24:29

bit . They become friends and eventually

24:31

she complies in him about

24:34

her career and how she keeps getting pushed out

24:36

of her research or her programs

24:38

. No one's ever taking her seriously

24:41

. But Calvin cannot possibly

24:43

understand why this is happening to her and

24:45

she tries to explain that it is sexism

24:48

and he still does not get it

24:50

. Because in his mind , they

24:52

need all the scientists that they can get

24:54

working on science . They

24:56

need women . He doesn't understand cutting

24:58

out half the population of scientists

25:01

just because they're women .

25:03

Exactly , but because he's a man , he

25:05

does also not understand what

25:07

sexism feels like yes , exactly

25:09

so

25:12

.

25:12

He tries to get it , he does , but

25:15

he doesn't he can't , he can't

25:18

, it's impossible .

25:19

No , until it happens to you , you don't really understand it . Which

25:21

I mean good for him , that he doesn't have

25:23

to experience it . Yes , that is preferable

25:26

.

25:28

He offers to help her get back on the project

25:30

she was working on and she

25:32

reluctantly agrees to let him , but

25:34

makes it clear that she in no way wants

25:36

any kind of relationship with him and

25:38

he agrees .

25:39

He also doesn't want a relationship with her ? Absolutely

25:41

not . Why would you want to be with the

25:44

most perfect woman ?

25:44

ever . No , right . But I mean they end up

25:46

spending all this time together and then falling

25:49

for each other .

25:50

And I was so happy , I know .

25:52

And then they both think that they're

25:54

flirting with each other , but they're doing

25:56

such a terrible job and they think

25:58

that both of them are rejecting

26:00

each other .

26:03

Because they're so bad at flirting .

26:04

Because they're talking about really weird stuff

26:07

Like science and vomit Exactly

26:09

, and it's kind

26:11

of funny and hilarious it was such

26:14

a cute .

26:15

I guess , if there's someone who wants to say this book is cutesy

26:17

, this part of them falling in love is so

26:20

well done . It was yeah .

26:21

It's so good to be in both of their point of view

26:23

. For Elizabeth is like I

26:26

talked about this and I cannot believe

26:28

that he didn't pick up on the fact that I was

26:30

flirting with him . And then he's like I said this to

26:32

her and she didn't , and I was just

26:35

like you guys , just say

26:37

the words .

26:38

It is University Caroline , all

26:40

over again .

26:43

Oh my gosh , eventually they

26:45

get it together and they end

26:47

up having one of those relationships that just makes everyone

26:50

around them sick , because they're so

26:52

in love and they're so perfect

26:54

. I was so happy . So

26:56

, after they date for quite a while , they

26:58

finally talk about their families . They really

27:01

avoided this conversation for

27:03

a long time , and I don't blame them no

27:05

, because I would also leave

27:08

it out until someone forced me to

27:10

talk about it in therapy next week . So

27:14

much therapy , it's

27:17

fine , everything's fine . We

27:20

find out that Elizabeth's father was an evangelist

27:22

who conned people and is currently imprisoned

27:24

because of it , because one

27:27

of his cons ended up killing someone

27:29

and her mother fled to Brazil

27:31

to avoid being imprisoned herself . And

27:34

Elizabeth also had a brother who committed suicide

27:36

after their parents found out that he was gay and

27:38

then they continuously

27:40

told him how much God and everyone

27:42

else hates him because he is an abomination

27:44

.

27:45

But really her parents aren't an abomination ?

27:47

Yes , yes , they are , and

27:49

she was really close with her brother .

27:52

Yeah , that's really not how good Christian

27:54

parents should love their children .

27:56

And then Calvin's parents were killed in a train accident

27:58

and then , when he went to

28:00

live with his aunt , she also died

28:02

in a car accident Not long after , like

28:05

within a year or something . So

28:07

then he was raised in a boys home where he was

28:09

told that he was actually adopted

28:11

by his parents and

28:14

his birth father was alive still

28:16

and rich , and that he just

28:18

made donations to the boys home that he lived in now

28:20

.

28:21

Yeah , I don't blame him that he doesn't tell Elizabeth

28:23

this part , because

28:25

he just pretends his

28:27

family is dead .

28:29

Yeah , but it's just kind of like

28:31

one of those things that he's carrying around with

28:33

him the idea that his family

28:35

did abandon him and doesn't

28:38

want him Even

28:40

as an adult .

28:41

He's really quite angry about it , but fair

28:43

enough yes , and I guess a bit ashamed

28:45

, because that's why he's not really telling

28:47

Elizabeth who he loves . Yeah

28:49

, he just doesn't want to talk about it .

28:51

Yep , and we find out later that this isn't

28:53

really true . But we'll get into that when we get there

28:55

. But when Calvin becomes

28:57

famous for his work , he starts to get a lot

29:00

of letters from people claiming to be long lost

29:02

relatives who need money , which

29:04

Calvin was famous , but he wasn't rich

29:06

, yeah and

29:08

I guess he would have more

29:10

been famous in the science world . Yeah

29:13

, he wasn't like a celebrity

29:15

. He didn't get paid actor money .

29:18

His book wasn't auctioned off .

29:20

No , it wasn't . But there was

29:22

one woman who kept writing to him claiming

29:24

to be his mother and instead of asking for money , she

29:26

actually offered money to help fund his research

29:28

. So I mean , we'll find out

29:30

more about that later , but in

29:33

the meantime , calvin and

29:35

Elizabeth move in together . She

29:37

tells him that she does not want to get married

29:39

. She does not want her work to

29:41

be overshadowed by his . She doesn't want anyone

29:43

to have any reason to believe that the work isn't

29:47

hers , and she knows that if she marries

29:49

him , even if she keeps her name , she'll

29:51

become Mrs Calvin Evans

29:53

and everything she does from that point forward will

29:55

either belong to him or be because of him . She

29:58

really stands up for this . She does

30:00

not want to be married . He does

30:02

not get it at all . No , because

30:05

, again , he's

30:07

a man . This is just how you do things and

30:10

he's a wonderful man , he's great

30:12

. He just doesn't get it no , because

30:14

to him he wants a family yeah

30:16

he wants to marry her .

30:17

He loves her .

30:19

He's never had a family of his own , not

30:21

for it since he was a little kid . And

30:24

he wants that . Eventually . He

30:26

proposes to her anyways and

30:28

she says no , yeah , in front

30:30

of all the people at work . He does it . And she's

30:33

like no , we've talked about this . And

30:35

he's like what , what do you mean ? And

30:38

I'm trying to remember at Book Club

30:40

, because this kind of came up with a question

30:42

and I was like come on

30:45

, and she said she didn't want to get married and you just

30:47

do it anyways , like what the

30:49

hell ? And everyone else was like , oh well .

30:51

I was like but yes , she

30:54

doesn't want to get married and that's important to her , but

30:56

he does want to get married and that's important to

30:58

him . So at what point ? Who's Trump's

31:01

? Who's yes ? So he shot his shot

31:03

and she said no , and they don't

31:05

break up over it . No , so he's

31:07

respectful , but I'm pretty sure he's

31:09

a little bit sad .

31:10

Yes , yeah and yeah

31:12

. When you said that , I was like , okay

31:15

, yes , he does deserve

31:17

the right to try and to ask

31:19

and to want that .

31:21

And he didn't badger her and repropose

31:23

17 times after she said no .

31:25

No , he just tried once , and

31:27

really someone else pointed out that

31:30

they could have gotten married and

31:32

no one else had to have known about it .

31:33

But then what's the point of getting married ?

31:35

But they could have gotten married . She could have kept her name , he

31:37

never like he wasn't going to steal

31:40

her thunder .

31:40

He knew that she was really smart at what she did

31:43

and he would have let her take all the glory

31:45

. Yeah , but probably where

31:47

they worked would have not promoted

31:49

that . Yeah , their work is the worst .

31:51

The worst . Um , he gets over the fact

31:53

that she says no , though , and everyone

31:56

at work , while it's happening , they're like , oh

31:58

look , he's proposing and she said

32:00

, no , they are done for

32:02

. This is hilarious . And they're all like

32:05

just ready for the gossip . And then

32:07

they make up and are kissing and making out and

32:09

they're like , oh yeah , I'm on

32:11

. Like really , I was

32:14

like , yay , I'm

32:16

glad they survived that . Then

32:18

he talks about wanting

32:20

to have a family and she's like whoa , whoa

32:22

, whoa , because she thinks

32:25

he's bringing up having children , which

32:27

he has also said no , but

32:30

what he actually was suggesting

32:33

was that they get a dog together .

32:34

Yes , larry keeps wanting to get a dog Really

32:37

, and I'm like no , we have two cats

32:39

, they're perfect . They won't like

32:41

a dog . I'm like , larry , you don't

32:43

want to walk a dog 13 times a day

32:45

. We can't go away for

32:47

a three day weekend if we have a dog

32:49

. Cats , cats are weird sounds

32:51

.

32:51

Yes , so we were

32:53

talking about getting a cat

32:55

, because Rachel from the Barely Bookish podcast

32:58

if you guys remember me talking about this has a Sphinx

33:00

and it's the best I

33:03

love . Sphinx cats it's the cutest cat in the world

33:05

and I was like , oh , I really want one . But

33:08

Callie is super allergic to animals

33:10

.

33:10

Yeah , you will not be getting cats , dogs , lizards

33:13

fish .

33:14

We cannot even go to someone's house that

33:16

has even if they've just cleaned

33:18

, they've just swept , they're in a different room without

33:21

her having allergy medication . So we're

33:23

like , maybe because this cat has no hair , we

33:25

can get one . No , we look it up and it's

33:27

like , actually without the hair

33:29

they're even more allergenic because

33:32

there's nothing to catch . Their

33:34

skin flakes as they fall off

33:36

. That sounds gross . I know

33:38

I still want a Sphinx . I

33:41

know we do , but anyways . But

33:43

, they get a dog . They get a dog . A few

33:45

weeks later , a homeless dog follows Elizabeth

33:47

home and they name him 630

33:50

because that is the time that he joined their family

33:52

. It was so cute , it

33:54

was perfect . There's this one part

33:56

where Elizabeth says to him because

33:58

eventually , 630 , he's super

34:00

smart , knows all the stuff helping

34:03

her in the lab and stuff and she says

34:05

630 , let me help you with your goggles

34:07

. And it just made

34:09

me giggle . It made me so happy

34:11

and I really

34:14

pictured this dog as being like

34:16

one of those dogs with like the

34:18

wiry long hair

34:20

that's just sticking out all over the place

34:22

.

34:22

An Einstein dog , yeah .

34:24

But then everyone was like , oh , it's probably because we find

34:26

out later that 630 used to be like

34:29

a bomb sniffer dog with the police

34:31

, so obviously it has to be some kind of like

34:33

German shepherd yeah , like a police

34:35

dog , not some like mangy

34:38

wiry mud

34:40

dog Pine's 57 dog . Yeah

34:43

, but it's okay . I still picture

34:45

this little wiry dog with the goggles

34:47

on . I love it . And also a German shepherd

34:49

with the goggles on is also pretty cool and

34:52

I definitely pictured 630 as a golden lab

34:54

.

34:54

I think labs are police dogs .

34:56

Yeah , I can see , for sure , shepherds are

34:58

. Yeah , for sure . I wonder what 630

35:00

is in the show we're going to have to watch the

35:02

show . Yeah , we're going to have to yeah , lizeth

35:05

teaches 630 words

35:07

. She believes that dogs should be able to learn

35:09

all these words , or like be

35:11

able to communicate more effectively , and

35:14

I think the dog ends up learning

35:16

like 900 words .

35:18

So many words , so many words , but

35:20

then the dog .

35:20

You kind of get the 630's point of view as

35:22

well . Thanks , usually

35:25

I don't really like animal point of views

35:27

, but I've liked it quite a few times

35:29

in the last year , so If it's

35:31

done right and this one is done right

35:33

.

35:34

It's just so interesting

35:36

to see what the animal observes

35:39

so differently from what an

35:41

other human character would observe .

35:43

Yeah , yeah , I thought it was really well done . And

35:45

Bonnie Garmus based

35:47

the character of 630 on her

35:49

old dog who was called Friday . Her

35:52

current dog's name is 99 .

35:54

She's very good at dog names .

35:55

Yes , like it's simple but

35:57

so good .

35:58

I think 630 is the most clever character

36:00

in the book and he's probably my

36:02

favorite .

36:03

Yeah , I really really liked it .

36:05

At the research facility they work at . One of the bosses

36:07

, donati , is a real jerk and he hates both

36:09

Calvin and Elizabeth and is really threatened

36:11

by them . He won't let Elizabeth work on

36:13

her project until an important donor says

36:16

that he wants to fund the project , which is

36:18

called Biogenesis , by

36:20

the way . But he will only fund

36:22

it if the brilliant male scientist , mr

36:25

Sot , is a part of the project . Donati

36:27

does not correct him and tells Elizabeth that

36:29

she is back on the project .

36:30

Yeah , another one of the main themes in this book is conning

36:33

people . It happens quite

36:35

a lot . Yep , a lot of lying

36:37

, so much lying . So

36:39

Calvin is a famous chemist and also

36:42

a renowned rower . He got a rowing scholarship

36:44

too I think it was Cambridge , but maybe I'm

36:46

making that up Like a big

36:48

school . He is really

36:51

popular in the rowing community and convinces

36:53

Elizabeth to learn how to row , even though

36:55

at that time it was very much not the norm

36:57

for a woman to row . It was

36:59

really the norm for women to do anything Be

37:01

chemist , not be married , yeah

37:04

, exactly . Yes

37:07

, being a rower is terrible . It's really hard

37:09

work . Everyone stares at her

37:11

while she's doing it , because what is a

37:13

woman doing here ? Yeah , but of course she's

37:15

good at it . She's good at it . She's good at everything

37:17

, yep , and she loves it . And she does

37:20

struggle at first , but she uses science to

37:22

figure out how to be good at it and then people start

37:24

to respect her for it , especially

37:26

this one guy , dr Mason , who is the

37:28

captain of the men's team .

37:29

The men's team , the only team , yeah

37:32

, the captain of the rowing team Of the

37:34

team .

37:35

And when Calvin asks him to let them

37:37

both join , he agrees because

37:39

he can see that she's good

37:42

at it . There was quite a lot of rowing

37:44

in this book , and it's because Bonnie Garmus

37:46

is a rower , so that makes sense

37:48

. At times I thought it was maybe a little

37:50

bit too much as a non-rower , but

37:52

I did learn quite a lot about it , yep

37:55

.

37:55

So rowing is a sport that requires far too

37:57

much strength and energy for

37:59

me . It's outside where it's cold

38:01

and it's wet , and they start at like 5 am . No

38:04

thanks , my cousin is a rock

38:06

star for being such a competitive rower

38:08

. I'm an inside cat .

38:10

I like the idea of outside and

38:12

I like outside once I get outside and

38:15

I do like 5 am , but I

38:18

would stay inside forever and

38:20

ever , and ever .

38:21

I would not row .

38:22

No thanks , I also don't like being wet . I

38:25

don't like water , so it was a lot of rowing

38:27

.

38:27

But for me it wasn't too

38:29

much rowing . Could the book have done

38:32

without any rowing ?

38:33

Yes .

38:34

So they could have cut the entire rowing out

38:36

.

38:36

Yeah , it didn't have anything

38:38

to do with the story .

38:40

I think it was interesting to see

38:42

her in another setting

38:44

where she succeeded again , even

38:46

though people didn't think she could because she was a woman

38:48

.

38:48

Yep , so I think

38:50

I don't think it didn't have a place and

38:53

it makes sense that she would want Like

38:55

Bonnie Garmus would want to put

38:58

something that she is passionate about

39:00

in this book as well .

39:01

Yeah , of course , so it worked she made it work .

39:03

Yeah , that might be kind of just a little bit

39:05

where my.25

39:07

star rating fell

39:10

away .

39:10

It rowed away down the river , exactly

39:13

.

39:13

So Elizabeth and Calvin have this really nice life

39:15

together . They're so happy , they're

39:18

happy .

39:18

They're just this really good , happy

39:21

, supportive , respectful

39:23

in love couple .

39:25

Later on in the book another character

39:27

that we'll meet soon she describes

39:29

their relationship

39:31

as like supernatural , like she would see them

39:34

through their window interacting

39:36

with each other , and she just could not even

39:38

believe that they were real . Yeah , and

39:41

it was really nice to read

39:43

, but then Bonnie Garmus

39:45

decides to just rip it out from underneath us

39:47

. Yep , so Biolog gets

39:49

passed in their town , stating that all dogs

39:51

need to be on a leash , which is totally

39:54

a normal expectation that we have

39:56

now .

39:56

Absolutely .

39:57

Imagine if no dogs were on a leash . It'd be terrible

39:59

. I wouldn't go outside , yeah .

40:01

I never go outside .

40:02

No , this is true . So

40:04

Elizabeth wants to follow the rules . She wants 630

40:07

to be safe , but Calvin thinks it's ridiculous and

40:10

the dog has never been on a leash before , so

40:12

how can you expect him to just be on a leash now ? In

40:14

the end , elizabeth convinces him to use a leash

40:17

while on a run with 630 , which

40:19

, by the way , even at

40:21

this time , running wasn't a thing , it

40:23

was like a new thing . They were like look at

40:25

that weird guy running .

40:27

I still do that when I see anybody . If

40:29

I were to drive by you

40:31

running , I'd be like huh

40:33

why .

40:34

That's so funny . Yes , Well

40:37

, at this time he was the only

40:39

one running in their town . There's nobody

40:41

else doing it Now . There's

40:43

plenty of people running , not just me

40:45

.

40:47

I only run if I'm running for the bus , and it's been a long

40:49

time since I've needed to take the bus .

40:53

Yeah , so he takes 630

40:55

on a run with the leash , and

40:58

then there's just this very unfortunate

41:00

chain of events where the local

41:02

police station has been suffering from budget cuts

41:05

, so their cars aren't in very good

41:07

shape . One of them backfires and

41:09

630 has a PTSD reaction

41:11

because , like I said , he

41:13

was a bomb sniffer dog . Yeah , he was

41:16

so scared of the training that he

41:18

flunked out . He flunked out

41:21

and his trainer abandoned him

41:23

.

41:23

And that's why he followed Elizabeth home one day

41:25

.

41:26

Yeah , so this car backfires

41:28

630 , freaks

41:30

out , pulls on his leash and

41:33

Calvin slips On

41:35

some oil that's on the ground

41:37

because of these cars . He

41:40

slips , he falls , he cracks his head open , right

41:42

before then getting run over

41:44

by a police car .

41:46

Yeah , so this was another scene that made

41:48

me have to put the book down for a bit . Yep

41:50

, I did not see it coming at all

41:52

, and so I was in shock and denial . They

41:55

were such a perfect couple . And then this and

41:57

poor 630 .

41:59

I know he felt so much guilt

42:01

about what happened . It

42:03

was really sad and this

42:05

was also a bit much , just like the

42:07

chain of events led up to

42:09

his death . But also

42:11

, like I said , life is kind of like this sometimes

42:13

and like circumstances can

42:16

line up and bad things happen and

42:18

then we as humans

42:20

we take those steps back

42:22

and trace them to a point .

42:23

Yeah , Exactly and say if we had not

42:25

done this one thing , 13

42:28

steps back .

42:29

Yeah , so anything can

42:31

look kind of convenient or

42:33

coincidental if we

42:36

look at it hard enough , which is what kind

42:38

of happens here , because Elizabeth traces the death of Calvin

42:40

back to her . Yeah , calvin's dead

42:42

, by the way , in case we

42:45

forgot to say oh yeah , he cracked his head open and

42:47

he's like literally dead immediately

42:49

and I die a little inside too . Yeah , and

42:52

so yeah , elizabeth traces the death of him

42:54

back to the moment

42:56

she forced him to lose

42:58

the leash and 630

43:00

, so much guilt . I felt so bad

43:03

for that little doggy .

43:04

I know .

43:04

I mean also for Elizabeth , because she's distraught . And

43:07

then after the funeral , she goes

43:09

into work to find Calvin's entire office

43:11

packed up and gone . All of his work is gone , all of his

43:13

belongings are gone . And

43:16

this woman , ms Rask

43:18

, who is a secretary in an HR

43:20

or something it's another woman that works with them

43:22

tells her that because she

43:24

never married him , she isn't entitled to any of his

43:26

stuff . So that really pissed

43:29

me off , yeah , and then Rask also points

43:31

out that Calvin left Elizabeth with a hurting

43:33

gift .

43:34

Oh , yeah she's pregnant , but she never clues

43:37

in that . I was even a possibility and it's Ms Rask

43:39

who's like the reason you keep running off because

43:41

you don't feel good .

43:42

Yeah , yeah , like duh , you're pregnant and she's like what

43:45

? Not only is now Calvin

43:47

dead , but now she's pregnant , which she never wanted

43:50

to be . But Rask

43:52

is so jealous of Elizabeth , but

43:54

also she was in the same boat as her

43:56

, so we find out more about her story later

43:58

. But she's also trying to move up in her career

44:01

. You know she's in HR

44:03

.

44:04

She's in administrative positions and she wants to

44:06

move up administratively .

44:07

Yes , yes , exactly , but

44:10

she can't because she's

44:13

only good to be a secretary .

44:14

She's a woman .

44:15

Yeah . So no matter how hard she

44:17

tries to make these other men

44:19

in the office happy , she

44:21

does it the wrong way . Elizabeth , she's

44:23

trying to move up in the world by doing good work . Rask

44:26

is trying to move up in the world by making

44:28

men happy and hoping that they

44:30

recognize her for that . Yes , so

44:32

she goes on dates with them . She looks

44:35

nice , she gossips

44:37

, she throws Elizabeth under the bus

44:39

, whatever she can do . They tell

44:41

her to lose weight . Yeah , at

44:43

one point . Yeah , later on she gets fired

44:45

because she gains weight . It's insanity

44:48

. Yeah . But I think it definitely

44:50

shows the fact that it wasn't just

44:52

men who were rude to Elizabeth

44:54

. Yeah , it wasn't just men who brought

44:57

women down . Other women did it

44:59

too . We did it to each other .

45:01

Because it was a competition .

45:02

Yeah , and it had to be a competition because there

45:05

was stuff to compete for . Yeah

45:07

, there was very limited positions

45:09

and if you weren't competitive

45:11

you wouldn't get it .

45:12

No , so we were a little bit , a

45:15

little bit our own worst enemy , but only

45:17

because we were made to be that

45:20

way .

45:21

Yeah , we had no choice . So I

45:23

thought that that was really well done and really well shown

45:25

in the book .

45:27

And we find out more about Frasquader . I

45:29

mean , I am not a fan , but

45:31

I dislike her a little less .

45:33

Yes , eventually , you know , we

45:35

learn a little bit more about her and her character

45:38

is a bit more developed and

45:40

it's like , okay , you can kind of understand where she's

45:42

coming from . It's still not okay , it's still not

45:44

okay . And Elizabeth didn't

45:46

have to be like that , but she also

45:48

had to work pretty hard . Yeah , it's

45:50

all hard , it's all hard , it's all hard

45:52

. So Elizabeth gets fired

45:55

for being pregnant , which is and was

45:57

illegal , but happens anyways

45:59

. Donati , the

46:01

terrible boss , doesn't want

46:04

that very important investor

46:06

to find out that Mr Zot

46:08

is pregnant .

46:10

Yeah , that would catch him out in a lie ?

46:12

Sure would . Then , a few months later , elizabeth

46:14

rips apart her kitchen and turns it into a lab

46:16

, and her old colleagues start

46:18

coming to her house for help on their projects , and

46:21

she starts charging for it like consultant

46:23

, I guess , but that is her only source of income

46:25

.

46:26

Yeah , and she would have had to renovate

46:28

her house , which costs money . She

46:31

did not have Calvin anymore to contribute

46:33

to their household . She is pregnant

46:36

and she has a dog too

46:38

.

46:38

Yes , that's a lot .

46:40

It's a lot .

46:41

I really like the idea of a lab for a kitchen , though I

46:43

thought it was cool .

46:45

I like my kitchen

46:47

. Wait , it is yes , fair

46:51

enough , but she's very creative and she's so smart

46:53

. Her food probably tastes extra because

46:56

, it's made in a lab .

46:56

Yeah , absolutely . Elizabeth

46:58

does not really want to admit or acknowledge that

47:01

she is pregnant , but she starts to show and

47:03

people start to talk to her about it and

47:05

then finally I think around maybe

47:07

33 weeks long or something she goes to

47:09

the doctor .

47:10

That seems late .

47:11

Yeah , and the doctor is kind of like hey , this

47:13

is late . She

47:16

kind of admits that she hoped the pregnancy

47:18

would just go away . She

47:21

kept rowing and

47:23

working really hard Not that you can't exercise when you're

47:25

pregnant , but the doctor was like the exercises

47:27

that you're doing are extreme . I

47:31

mean , abortion was definitely not legal then

47:33

.

47:34

Yeah , I don't think that even came up as an option because

47:36

back then it wasn't an option

47:38

.

47:39

But she had hoped that by rowing

47:41

and by working aggressively and

47:43

she would it would take care of itself . Yes , exactly

47:46

, and I mean it didn't . It just made her really

47:48

nice and strong , yeah , and

47:50

he's like , yeah , no , you should just have

47:53

the baby and then , when you're done doing

47:55

that , come and be a rower on the team .

47:58

It's the doctor is the captain

48:00

of yeah Men's team . The

48:02

team .

48:04

Yeah . And he says come back Five

48:06

weeks later . She goes into labor . She doesn't believe

48:08

it at first , but 630 knows what's

48:10

happening . And then , not long later

48:12

, a baby girl is born and Elizabeth

48:14

names her Mad accidentally

48:17

, because it turns out that

48:19

when a nurse came in , Elizabeth thought

48:21

that she was asking her how she felt . But

48:23

she was actually asking her what the baby's name was

48:25

. So Elizabeth said

48:27

Mad . So Mad went on the birth certificate

48:30

. So it's joke is that the

48:32

baby is legally Mad . It's a good joke

48:34

. It's a good joke , I like it . I love

48:37

it . She wanted to change it and

48:39

and she was gonna go with Madeline

48:42

, but she would have had

48:44

to produce marriage

48:46

certificate and all kinds of paperwork

48:48

that she didn't have . She didn't have because she was

48:50

never married and she was like , no

48:52

, it's too much work . So she just left

48:55

it as Mad , and I love it , me too

48:57

. But when they get home , elizabeth is

48:59

completely overwhelmed with everything that comes

49:01

along with caring for a newborn .

49:03

We have Google .

49:03

now A newborn , she never wanted , yeah

49:05

, and that she did not do anything

49:08

to prepare for it all 33 weeks before

49:10

she went to see the doctor yeah , so

49:12

I could not imagine trying to

49:14

figure out how to care for a baby without

49:16

anyone's help .

49:17

No support , no family , no husband

49:20

or partner . Yeah , yeah

49:22

.

49:23

so one day I don't know however

49:25

long later , long enough , she gets woken

49:27

up in her house by her neighbor Harriet

49:29

, who is like hey , I notice

49:32

, you need help , let

49:34

me help you .

49:35

That's the neighbor who would see her

49:37

through the window and think that they were what ? Super

49:39

natural , super natural , the supernatural

49:42

couple .

49:43

Yeah , so this neighbor has been living across the street

49:45

and kind of you know , just being a nosy neighbor

49:47

spying for quite a long time and

49:50

it's like , yeah , I think she kind of thinks

49:53

that maybe Elizabeth is a bit of a sex

49:55

worker , because she's like I've

49:57

noticed that men have been coming over

50:00

quite different hours , for

50:02

you know All the scientists who need her help

50:04

. Yeah , but

50:07

she offers to help with the baby

50:09

whenever she needs .

50:10

Because Harriet is very

50:12

unhappily married , she needs

50:14

an excuse to get out of the house and make the world

50:16

a better place .

50:17

Yes , and she Elizabeth

50:19

takes her up on it for sure . There's

50:21

this part right now where Harriet's like I'll make

50:23

you some coffee . And then she goes into the

50:25

lab and is like where's

50:28

the coffee maker ? And

50:30

then Elizabeth is like I'll do it . She gets

50:32

up and she uses a super intense system

50:35

, which is so fun . It's

50:37

a vacuum pot . It takes quite a

50:39

long time and quite a lot of effort to make coffee this

50:41

way , but it's really good , makes a really

50:43

nice , clean cup of coffee . And Harriet

50:46

agrees . She's like this is amazing

50:49

. So when Madeline turns four

50:51

, elizabeth changes her birth certificate to say that she is

50:53

five so she can enroll her in school . One

50:56

because Madeline is extraordinarily

51:00

smart . Look at her parents , of course she's smart

51:02

, she's a genius for real . And

51:04

then two because she needs to

51:06

be around other children and Elizabeth wants

51:08

her to fit in . And then three , because

51:11

she has no money and absolutely needs to return to work

51:13

. Yeah , so Madeline goes

51:15

to school and Elizabeth goes back to her old

51:18

research facility and Donati

51:20

gives her a job . Mr Zod is back , yes

51:22

, except for she thinks that it's her old job

51:24

, but he actually makes her just a lab

51:27

tech , which is

51:29

so painful for her . Oh yeah

51:31

. So she at

51:34

the facility she runs into Frask , who

51:36

is upset that some

51:38

young guy got hired for the job that she

51:40

was hoping to be promoted to . And

51:43

we learned that Frask actually

51:45

has a degree in psychology , and

51:48

she also got kicked out of her program after being

51:50

sexually assaulted . So her and Elizabeth

51:52

have a lot more in common than they thought

51:54

. And then , not long later

51:57

, frask gets fired for gaining weight .

51:59

I'd be so fired .

52:00

Yeah , me too

52:02

. But before she

52:04

leaves , she gives Elizabeth access to all of Calvin's

52:06

work that had been boxed in the basement

52:08

since his death , to make up for how she treated her .

52:11

Oh yeah , and I don't think Elizabeth knew that

52:13

his stuff still existed in storage

52:15

.

52:16

No , yeah . So she got

52:18

it all back , which was really good , thankfully

52:20

. But then Donati steals

52:22

Elizabeth's research and publishes it as

52:25

his own , which is the last straw for her . So

52:27

she quits her job and leaves . And

52:29

then this is kind of where the beginning of the book starts

52:31

. She goes to the TV station

52:33

to confront the dad of the child who is eating

52:35

Madeleine's lunch . Walter Pine

52:37

, you had it right . Walter yes , it was Walter . He's

52:41

so besotted by her that he offers her the TV

52:43

show and she's desperate

52:45

for work , so she agrees to do it . Now

52:47

. She thinks that she's going to be doing a serious

52:49

television program where

52:52

she , elizabeth Zott chemist

52:55

, will be teaching women how to make serious

52:57

food using science in her science

53:00

lab .

53:01

Yes , I would watch the

53:03

hell out of that .

53:03

Oh , yeah for sure . But the

53:06

show that Walter's boss wants to make is one

53:08

where she is . Where she's in a quaint little home

53:10

kitchen wearing tight clothes and oohing

53:12

and eyeing and moaning over the

53:14

food she is making for everyone . She is making for average housewives

53:17

.

53:17

Yeah , because she's actually banging hot , isn't she ?

53:20

Yeah , she is and they want to use that

53:22

for sure . But I thought the back and

53:24

forth here was so entertaining

53:26

and also so infuriating and

53:28

eventually , I think , maybe got a little tiresome , but

53:30

I also loved it . I thought it was so funny .

53:32

It was fantastic and I

53:34

think I'm actually a little bit in love with Elizabeth . She's

53:36

smart , she's clever , she knows how to take

53:39

a stand for herself and hold out

53:41

for what she wants , and she's apparently

53:43

very hot and she can cook , so

53:45

she's like perfect , pretty much yeah .

53:47

And everybody loves the show

53:50

. The show is . It's a sensation

53:52

. It's a sensation , everybody loves it . But despite

53:54

Walter trying to get her to do absolutely anything

53:57

, that his terrible boss , whose

53:59

name is Mr Leben Small , I

54:01

wonder what Leben Small translates into

54:04

it sounds like it's German .

54:07

Leben is maybe Small sausage

54:09

, little

54:14

life . I think it may be closer .

54:16

That probably sounds better . Yes , we

54:22

encounter his sausage later

54:24

. Oh yeah , oh gross , yeah

54:27

, whatever . So

54:29

, despite Walter trying to get

54:32

her to do anything that Mr Leben

54:34

Small wants , elizabeth just does

54:36

her own thing . She doesn't read the cue

54:38

cards , she gives away everything on

54:40

the set to the studio audience

54:42

so great she absolutely

54:45

cannot understand what being live

54:47

means . And

54:50

Walter is just losing his mind . So

54:53

she has a six month contract and

54:55

everyone just assumes that after that six month

54:57

is done she will also be done . So

55:00

Walter learns that Elizabeth and Calvin were never married

55:02

and now he's dead . He admits that his

55:05

wife left them and Amanda the

55:07

one cheater . She isn't his biological

55:09

child and that doesn't matter to him . He

55:11

loves her regardless , which I thought was really

55:13

cute and sweet . But

55:16

they're both single parents in the 1960s

55:18

it's definitely not the norm and

55:20

they get routinely called into the school

55:23

to talk about their odd children and the unorthodox

55:25

ways that they're being raised . Elizabeth

55:27

and Walter bond over this and become friends , despite

55:29

the hernia she gives Walter

55:31

every single day on the show .

55:33

Yeah , their friendship was the one

55:35

like was one of my favorite relationships in

55:37

the book because it was kind of unlikely but

55:39

they worked so well together as friends and

55:42

I was relieved that Bonnie never tried

55:44

to turn their friendship into a romance . I

55:46

would have been . I want to say

55:48

I would have been disappointed . I would

55:50

have been disappointed . They made fantastic friends .

55:53

Yeah , it would have been really easy to turn it into a romance

55:55

, but like that would have been so predictable

55:58

, this was better . This was better . I

56:00

love a good male-female

56:02

friendship in a book , yeah , and in

56:04

real life , but it's easier in a book . Yeah

56:06

, it's way easier in a book . So

56:09

Madeline gets assigned to do a family tree and

56:11

Harriet takes her to the library to do some research

56:13

. Harriet had snooped through

56:15

Calvin's papers . Remember I said she was a big snoopy

56:17

snoop .

56:18

She's the nosy neighbor .

56:19

Yes , she , he left

56:21

his door open , which

56:24

like the door to his house open , which

56:26

I say that's weird , but I have done that

56:28

before . I'm terrible , but

56:32

I had kids , so I have a reason

56:34

. He was just him . He

56:37

left his door open and

56:39

she went into his house to

56:41

like close the door for him . But then she's like

56:43

, well , I'll just check that nothing else needs to be done in

56:45

here . And it's like , oh , what if this piece of

56:47

paper was accidentally put in the garbage ? And

56:50

he didn't mean for it to be in the garbage , so I better

56:52

take it out and smooth it out and read it . She's

56:55

great , oh my gosh . So

56:58

she knows stuff

57:00

that she shouldn't know . She

57:04

learned about how there's this . You know this big

57:06

donor who is donating money to the boys

57:08

home , but they have no idea which boys

57:10

home this is or any information

57:13

about it . So they're going to try to find

57:15

out some information for the tree . And the

57:17

whole family tree thing was kind of annoying . To be

57:19

honest . I kind of get why Harriet

57:21

didn't want Madeline to tell Elizabeth about it , but

57:23

I really would have been the easiest route

57:26

to just get it done and move on .

57:28

Although Elizabeth didn't , did she know

57:30

that much .

57:31

No .

57:31

She didn't know that part about Calvin's life either .

57:33

No , she didn't , so she wouldn't have been that much help

57:35

, but she could have at least I would have just let Madeline

57:38

stay home that day , yeah yeah , that's probably

57:40

a better idea . But at

57:42

the library Madeline meets a man named

57:45

Reverend Wakeley . Completely

57:47

coincidentally , it just

57:49

so happens that he was her

57:52

dad's pen pal back

57:54

in the day and had even performed

57:56

his funeral . What a coincidence

57:58

. So weird . So he offers to

58:00

help Madeline find out more information about her dad

58:02

. He keeps trying to get in touch with the boys

58:04

home , but they are avoiding his calls . And

58:07

then he does eventually get through . They

58:10

tell him that there had never been

58:12

a boy named Calvin Evans there .

58:13

Yeah . So I don't know . I think they could have cut

58:15

this entire Wakeley storyline

58:18

and the overall

58:20

plot story would not have suffered for it

58:22

. This is where most of the conveniences

58:25

and plot holes fall , I think .

58:27

Yes , for sure . I mean he was fine

58:29

, but I just don't think that he really needed

58:32

to be in the story at all . They could have cut

58:34

him out completely and the story

58:36

would have continued on . He was kind

58:38

of just a way he was the person making

58:40

the phone calls to the boys home , but

58:42

I feel like even . Harriet could have figured that out and done

58:45

it . Yeah , but I guess she's a woman

58:47

, so maybe they wouldn't have paid as much

58:49

attention to a woman calling .

58:51

I don't know , Maybe it was in the

58:53

book so that the part

58:55

about Calvin's true

58:57

parent would come out . But I mean

59:00

, then it could have just been Harriet reading

59:02

this on this convenient piece of paper , skipping

59:04

the whole Wakeley line , and then being like oh

59:06

, I know everything on your family tree .

59:08

Yeah . Well , one of the letters that Calvin got was

59:11

like hi , I'm your mom , here

59:13

is my name and phone number . Like she

59:15

could have found that piece of paper yeah , that

59:17

would have been the best piece of paper to find , yeah , and then

59:19

called her up , found all the information

59:21

out , right , but it's okay . So

59:23

Walter and Lebin Small are both

59:25

saying that the show is doing terrible and Elizabeth

59:28

needs to do the things , but

59:30

the show is also getting more attention than any

59:32

other show they do . The audience is full

59:34

. They get tons of calls about it . Everyone

59:36

watches it . People are waiting outside to

59:38

get in . It's huge , but

59:41

still they're telling her that the sponsors are pulling

59:43

out . My favorite was when she

59:45

was supposed to add a kind of soup to a recipe

59:48

and instead went on air and called it poison

59:50

, oh yeah . And

59:53

then went on to talk about the various ways

59:55

a woman can kill her husband with different mushrooms

59:57

not found in a can .

59:59

Ah , yes , the lethal aminita

1:00:01

Falladis . Yeah , that's

1:00:03

a word .

1:00:03

I don't really know how to say , but deathcap

1:00:07

mushrooms .

1:00:07

Yes , Talk that one away in your back pocket ladies

1:00:10

. Yes , I wonder where

1:00:12

you buy those In the forest .

1:00:14

Let's go find some .

1:00:15

We love our husbands ? We do . We don't really feel

1:00:17

like husbands .

1:00:18

We have great husbands , but we do know some other

1:00:20

husbands that we would never feed

1:00:23

death cover .

1:00:24

I'm not getting involved in that .

1:00:26

Okay , never mind Cut this . Yeah

1:00:30

, she got in big trouble for the whole mushroom

1:00:32

thing and Walter

1:00:34

has always forbidden Elizabeth from talking

1:00:36

to Levin Small on her own . But after

1:00:38

the soup incident Walter just walks

1:00:41

out of the studio , drives home .

1:00:43

He's like I can't anymore . I'm

1:00:46

probably fired for what Elizabeth is doing

1:00:48

, so I may as well just go home .

1:00:49

Yeah , so that was funny . But then Elizabeth

1:00:51

went to talk to Levin Small who

1:00:53

tells her what a flop her show is . It's

1:00:56

a huge failure . And now he's going

1:00:58

to show her where she belongs and

1:01:00

he takes out his little sausage , puts

1:01:03

it right in her face . Yeah , like ew

1:01:05

.

1:01:06

Disgusting .

1:01:07

I hate it . I absolutely

1:01:09

hate it . I could not imagine

1:01:12

if this happened in

1:01:14

real , actual life . Oh

1:01:17

my God . Luckily she

1:01:19

brings her own knives to the studio every day

1:01:21

. So she just opens up her purse , pulls

1:01:23

out a huge knife and Levin

1:01:25

Small drops a heart attack .

1:01:28

Which he deserves .

1:01:29

Yes , he doesn't die though

1:01:31

, so it's okay .

1:01:32

Is it , though ? It's not okay . I mean , she

1:01:36

does the right thing .

1:01:37

She calls an ambulance yeah . But

1:01:39

while she's waiting for the ambulance to show up

1:01:41

, she goes through his papers and finds proof

1:01:43

that the show is a huge success and

1:01:45

has been picked up by stations all over the country

1:01:47

and there's a ton of companies wanting to sponsor

1:01:50

the show .

1:01:50

Yeah , I bet you he's hiding that so

1:01:52

that he doesn't have to give her a raise for being

1:01:55

so excellent .

1:01:55

Yeah , he just wants control . It's

1:01:58

messed up Like he's getting money from this

1:02:00

too . Yeah , he's making money . I want to watch

1:02:02

separate six , me too . So

1:02:04

while he's in the hospital , walter does his job and everything

1:02:06

is going really well , until Elizabeth

1:02:08

admits to not believing in God on the show

1:02:11

. Back then people super

1:02:13

pissed . Oh yeah , people are so mad

1:02:15

and now sponsors really do start to

1:02:17

pull out . She starts to receive

1:02:20

death threats . Someone even brings a

1:02:22

bomb into the audience , but

1:02:24

630 , who is also now on the

1:02:26

show , sniffs it out and finds it . Saves

1:02:29

the day , yeah 630 , my hero . So

1:02:32

the media has been trying to get an interview with Elizabeth since

1:02:34

the show aired , but she turns everyone down . She

1:02:36

does not want to talk about her personal life and she doesn't

1:02:39

want to detract from being a scientist . But

1:02:41

then someone finally convinces her to do an interview

1:02:43

with Life Magazine . The reporter is told

1:02:45

to absolutely not bring up Calvin or

1:02:47

the interview will be immediately over

1:02:50

. But he decides to go for it anyways

1:02:52

, and Elizabeth instead tells him all about

1:02:54

Calvin . At first she's a little bit like

1:02:56

how dare you ? But

1:02:59

then she spills everything , and

1:03:02

the reporter is so touched by her story that he decides

1:03:04

not to write any of it , and instead

1:03:07

he submits a boring story about her old research

1:03:09

. His boss , though , is

1:03:11

like no , I need the dirt . So

1:03:14

he takes a bunch of quotes from people who

1:03:16

hate her and makes this terrible

1:03:19

story about her , and she feels so

1:03:21

deeply betrayed , and then she falls into a deep

1:03:23

depression because of it . But the reporter was

1:03:25

so the good reporter , the one

1:03:27

we like yeah , he was really upset about

1:03:29

it . So he quit his job at that magazine and

1:03:32

he writes a new story that he titled

1:03:34

why their Minds Matter the Bias of Science

1:03:36

and what these Women Are Doing About it , and

1:03:39

he's trying to get this story published in

1:03:41

all these science magazines , but no one's picking it up

1:03:43

. So he leaves a copy of the story

1:03:45

at Elizabeth's house , and Madeline

1:03:47

is the one to find it . She

1:03:49

goes to take it to Wakeley and instead finds

1:03:52

a woman named Miss Frask

1:03:54

, who is his typist

1:03:56

.

1:03:57

Not convenient at all , because

1:03:59

, first of all , Wakeley shouldn't exist .

1:04:01

No , and then now also Miss Frask is his typist

1:04:03

. So Frask

1:04:06

immediately realizes who Madeline

1:04:08

is and tells her that

1:04:10

she'll get the envelope to Wakeley and tells

1:04:12

her that her mom quit her job doing science so that

1:04:14

she could have her . So now Madeline

1:04:17

also gets to feel guilty about her existence

1:04:19

. Good job , miss Frask

1:04:21

.

1:04:22

Thanks for that . Just continuously trying

1:04:24

to knock Elizabeth down , even

1:04:27

though they don't even work at the same place anymore .

1:04:30

After Madeline leaves , frask reads the story in

1:04:32

the envelope and then , because she's also nosy

1:04:35

, I would read

1:04:37

the story too . Yeah , I mean , also

1:04:39

I'm kind of nosy Then writes

1:04:41

a letter to Life Magazine about

1:04:44

how everything that they wrote was a lie . And

1:04:46

then women all over the country are writing to the magazine

1:04:48

to support Elizabeth , but nothing

1:04:50

helps . She's still depressed . She

1:04:53

decides to leave the show and go back

1:04:55

to being a scientist . Because this reporter

1:04:57

submitted the story to a bunch of science

1:04:59

magazines , they aren't

1:05:01

going to run it . No

1:05:04

.

1:05:04

They don't care about a female scientist .

1:05:07

No , it's the same kind of sexist a-holes

1:05:10

that run the research facilities

1:05:12

, so they're not running it . So Harriet

1:05:14

takes the story and submits it to a magazine

1:05:16

she feels like she feels would

1:05:18

like to hear about women in science Vogue

1:05:21

.

1:05:22

Which is very vogue .

1:05:23

Very vogue and they publish it . So

1:05:26

that was cool . Elizabeth

1:05:28

gets a call from Ms Frasks . Ms Frasks

1:05:30

, secretary . Oh , frasks Gets a

1:05:32

secretary . Yeah , because now she

1:05:35

is the head of personnel

1:05:37

back at the research facility . Oh

1:05:39

, yes , in a clever twist , yes , elizabeth

1:05:42

doesn't believe it , but goes down there to meet

1:05:44

her . There has been someone trying to

1:05:46

fund her research all this time , like we said , but

1:05:48

Donati was taking the money for other projects

1:05:50

. Turns out it's the same

1:05:52

person who donated to the boys home that Calvin grew

1:05:55

up in . The woman's name is Avery

1:05:57

Parker and her lawyer

1:05:59

I think it was his name is Wilson

1:06:01

. He runs her foundation and

1:06:03

they have conveniently

1:06:06

purchased the company

1:06:08

, the research , the research company , okay , and

1:06:10

they're firing Donati the boss

1:06:12

. Excellent , yep , they make Frasks

1:06:15

the head of personnel .

1:06:16

It's good for her .

1:06:17

And they want Elizabeth to come back and continue

1:06:19

her work on a biogenesis Please . At

1:06:22

first Elizabeth refuses , but then

1:06:24

Avery tells her her story because

1:06:26

she was Calvin's birth mother . She

1:06:29

had gotten pregnant at 17 and she was sent away

1:06:31

to home for unwed mothers and

1:06:34

when Calvin was born she was told that he was

1:06:36

still born . So her story was super heartbreaking

1:06:38

. She didn't want to give up her baby

1:06:40

and they told her that if she didn't agree

1:06:42

to sign her baby away that she would

1:06:45

receive no help when her labor started . So

1:06:47

she goes into labor . They put her

1:06:49

alone in a room and lock the door and

1:06:52

after hours and hours of her screaming , the doctor

1:06:54

finally went in , knocked her out . When

1:06:56

she came out of it , her baby was gone . That's

1:06:59

horrific , so terrible . 10

1:07:02

years later a nurse from the home called to admit that

1:07:05

her baby , calvin , was alive

1:07:07

and had been adopted by a family who

1:07:09

had tragically died in an accident and

1:07:11

now he was living in a boy's home . So

1:07:13

then she sends Wilson

1:07:15

to the home to take Calvin out

1:07:17

and bring him home to her . But when he

1:07:19

got there , the bishop

1:07:22

the guy that was running the home thought

1:07:26

that he was going to be giving them money , but

1:07:29

then instead he finds out that they're going to take

1:07:31

Calvin .

1:07:32

And then he probably won't be getting any more money .

1:07:34

Yeah , so the bishop hated

1:07:36

Calvin and told Wilson that

1:07:39

Calvin had actually died recently , and

1:07:41

then convinces him to donate money to

1:07:43

the home in his honor instead .

1:07:45

Ah , the good Christian bishop .

1:07:48

It's just so

1:07:50

terrible , it's the worst

1:07:52

. So then the bishop tells Calvin that

1:07:54

Wilson was his father and that he was happy

1:07:56

and healthy and rich and just didn't want him . So

1:07:58

Calvin spent his whole life believing

1:08:00

this . It's so sad

1:08:02

.

1:08:03

Because really his mom wanted him so much

1:08:05

, yeah . And then she thought

1:08:07

again that he was dead .

1:08:09

She thought that he had died twice , but

1:08:12

then , in the future , she

1:08:15

sees him on the cover of a science magazine and

1:08:18

realizes that he's alive . Cuts off funding

1:08:20

to the home , tries to get in contact with him

1:08:22

, but he is like no

1:08:24

, all these people are just trying to con

1:08:26

me . And he never responded

1:08:29

.

1:08:30

Imagine Like she's an entire

1:08:32

side story . That's completely heartbreaking

1:08:34

, yeah .

1:08:35

They could write a whole story about her . Yes , I

1:08:37

found out recently that my mom went to a school

1:08:40

for Unwoodmothers . Really , no

1:08:42

, I was like what ? And I mean

1:08:44

, I knew that she had me when she was 17, . But she

1:08:47

was like yeah , you weren't allowed to be pregnant

1:08:49

at school . So there was a

1:08:51

school in Vancouver that she went to . That

1:08:53

was like a boarding school , but she lived in Vancouver so

1:08:55

she got to go home every night

1:08:58

but girls from all over the country would go

1:09:00

there to have their babies . What

1:09:02

was that ? What year I had 1986 .

1:09:04

In 1986 . Yeah

1:09:06

, I was alive already . Yeah .

1:09:08

That's when I was born and that's

1:09:10

where she learned how to crochet . My mom crocheted all

1:09:12

the time and she's like some little old lady came

1:09:15

to teach us all how to crochet baby clothes

1:09:17

. That's cute actually , yeah , so

1:09:20

she was there just learning how to

1:09:23

be a mother .

1:09:25

That's so strange to me that less

1:09:27

than 40

1:09:29

years ago there were homes for Unwoodmothers

1:09:32

.

1:09:32

That sounds like she described it as a home for wayward

1:09:34

girls . Oh , brother , I

1:09:37

know I was like and she just told me this

1:09:39

like two months ago , and I was like what ? No

1:09:41

idea .

1:09:43

What's so strange is how recent some

1:09:47

of this stuff is . I know Like

1:09:49

it sounds like this would be from the 1800s , yes

1:09:53

, but it's happening in the 1980s

1:09:56

.

1:09:56

Yeah , crazy . So I don't know when that school

1:09:58

closed down , but has

1:10:00

it closed down ?

1:10:02

I don't know .

1:10:02

I assume , like

1:10:05

people are allowed to be pregnant at school now

1:10:07

, but I don't know , it's

1:10:09

crazy , it's absolutely crazy , but

1:10:11

yeah . So now the

1:10:14

book ends with Elizabeth inviting Avery to dinner

1:10:16

at the house with everyone Madeleine and Amanda

1:10:18

and Harriet and Malter , the whole family

1:10:20

and Elizabeth goes on with her

1:10:22

research . This concludes

1:10:24

your introduction to chemistry . Class

1:10:27

dismissed , Class dismissed , which is how the

1:10:29

book ends . Oh , it's such a great

1:10:31

book .

1:10:31

Yeah , what are your overall thoughts Five

1:10:34

stars . Even after we

1:10:36

unveil a few of the convenient plot holes

1:10:38

, still a fantastic read

1:10:40

.

1:10:40

She did a great job . I stick with my 4.75

1:10:43

. Great book . Highly recommend

1:10:45

. Super entertaining , very funny

1:10:47

. Really excited to watch the show . Yeah , but

1:10:50

yeah , I think that's all we have for you today . I think

1:10:52

so too . So thanks for hanging out with us while we talked

1:10:55

about lessons in chemistry . Thanks , carolyn

1:10:57

, for coming on the show you are welcome

1:10:59

.

1:11:00

It's always a pleasure to be here . So much fun

1:11:02

.

1:11:03

Where can we find you online ? You have a little

1:11:05

book Instagram .

1:11:06

I do . I can be found on

1:11:08

Instagram at Book Nerder

1:11:10

. That's it .

1:11:11

I don't have TikTok .

1:11:12

I'm too old for that . I barely

1:11:14

know how to use Snapchat , but

1:11:16

Instagram yeah , instagram's good .

1:11:18

We'll link that in the show notes

1:11:21

you can find us at In Her

1:11:23

Good Books podcast on Instagram , facebook

1:11:25

and TikTok . Otherwise , we're

1:11:27

going to see you in two weeks .

1:11:29

Two weeks , but it'll be Shanna , bye we

1:11:31

did it we did it , we did it , hooray .

1:11:37

That's for .

1:11:37

Shanna Perfect

1:11:42

.