0:02

Lemon other. Hey.

0:06

Listeners it Stephanie, What else? Wax

0:09

the cofounder of Lemon Out A

0:11

Media were dropping into your feed

0:13

today to play you the first

0:15

episode of Archetypes, a dynamic podcast

0:18

hosted by Meghan the Duchess of

0:20

Sussex. In each intimate and candid

0:22

conversation, magnus joined by guests like

0:24

Serena Williams, Mariah Carey, Paris Hilton,

0:27

Issa Rae, and Trevor Noah as

0:29

they delve into the roots of

0:31

countless com and descriptors of women

0:33

like Diva, crazy, dumb Blonde, and

0:35

to be word, And redefine and

0:38

reclaim each identity. Along the way, you're

0:40

about to hear the first episode of

0:42

Archetypes. It's an important conversation between the

0:45

Duchess of Sussex and Serena Williams, where

0:47

they talk about the double standards women

0:49

face when they are labeled ambitious and

0:52

the ripple effect this has on other

0:54

aspects of their lives. After you listen,

0:56

you can search for Archetypes and your

0:59

podcast app to listen to another episode.

1:01

The complete Season of Archetypes is out

1:03

now wherever you get your podcasts. When.

1:07

I was. A.

1:09

Loving years old growing up in

1:12

a way. I. Saw

1:14

a commercial that would change the way

1:16

I understood my place in the world.

1:19

Let. Me: Be clear. It. Wasn't because

1:21

this ad was. Some.

1:23

Kind of ingenious piece of marketing.

1:26

Actually, it was just the opposite. So.

1:28

Here's what happened. I was in the sixth grade. I'm

1:30

sitting in my classroom and we were watching Tv. One

1:33

a commercial came on. The

1:36

gloves are coming. All

1:38

women. Are fighting greasy thoughts

1:40

and prayers with ivory? clear? I

1:43

was furious. Women:

1:46

Don't. Tag Really? just hear that guy

1:48

say just women as an only women.

1:51

Only. Women women are the only ones who

1:53

washed dishes. A Ben. And

1:55

then I heard them. Least. Two

1:57

boys in my class breathing hi

2:00

into my biggest fear. They.

2:02

Said yeah, that's women belong in the

2:04

kitchen. Oh

2:06

man, this did not sit well

2:08

with eleven year old me. They

2:13

knew I hurt my feelings. It

2:15

makes me feel like they're gonna

2:17

go up center. Fat girls are

2:19

less than yeah. In case

2:21

it, And that's me from Nineteen

2:23

Ninety three. On Nicholas,

2:25

I don't think it's right for

2:27

kids to grow up thinking He

2:29

said mom. When

2:33

I'd seen the ad for. Ivory, clear dishwashing liquid.

2:35

And when I heard those boys and

2:37

their idea for what. My future

2:40

might hold. I knew something was

2:42

wrong. And I knew I had

2:44

to do something about it. So. I

2:46

went on what you might call a letter

2:48

writing campaign and really liked letters and I

2:50

read sound to some of the most powerful

2:52

people think of the time. Which

2:55

was First Lady Hillary Clinton, attorney

2:57

Gloria All Red. And Linda Ellerbee

2:59

who hosted my preferred new. Source: as

3:01

eleven year old nick New

3:03

Cities. But I didn't

3:06

stop there. I also reached out to the

3:08

set manufacture, the very people. Who

3:10

made the commercial. The

3:12

President, the pattern gamble faster, normal

3:15

company facility or how cancer and

3:17

explain the whole thing. the classroom,

3:19

the boys, and then

3:21

my ask that wondering if you were born

3:24

on a chance at a most of people

3:26

all over America. Paint is made in level.

3:29

And would you believe in? Three

3:31

months later, a new version of

3:34

the ad appeared. On. T V's

3:36

all around the country. Unless.

3:47

They. Changed the language in the ad. From.

3:50

Women: To. People. Now

3:58

I could paint this as a moment of. Ryan.

4:01

And don't get me wrong, it

4:03

was because I learned my one

4:06

small action could have a ripple

4:08

effect far beyond me. But

4:11

this experience is also something bigger.

4:14

And we came. To

4:16

the millions of ways big and

4:18

small that our. Society trying to books a

4:21

minute to hold them back to tell women who

4:23

and what they said and can be. I've

4:26

never lost. And

4:28

in the last few years my desire

4:31

to do something about it. Has

4:33

grown. My eleven

4:36

year old boys has also gotten a

4:38

little more competent. Maybe.

4:40

A little louder. If you see something

4:42

that you don't like, are offended by

4:44

on television or any other place, write

4:47

letters and send them to the right

4:49

people and eating really make a difference

4:51

For a not just yourself Said last

4:53

as if people. See

4:59

right? But at

5:01

this period. I think syncing

5:03

and night be eighteen. Need more?

5:20

Time I met Him and

5:23

this archetypes my podcast about.

5:25

The labels and froch for try to

5:27

hold women back over the course. the

5:29

next doesn't episodes were going to live

5:32

inside and rip apart the boxes women

5:34

have been placed into for generations. Boxes

5:37

like visa crazy

5:39

that the word

5:42

slut. Some

5:44

of these words, these labels

5:46

are harsh. Their abrasive, And

5:49

I want to get to the bottom of where

5:51

they come from. Why? They suck around for

5:54

so long. And importantly

5:56

how we can move past and. My

5:59

boyfriend. They told Obama. Like

6:03

I had advance say, if a

6:05

man is ice is ugly says

6:07

I'm mortified. Painting a woman as

6:09

dumb or not smart is a

6:11

very old way of trying to

6:13

discredit her. Dragon Lady really comes

6:15

from some sort of sad to

6:17

see if orientalism someone had told

6:19

me that the word "the by

6:21

being attached to" Was like an albatross

6:24

around my neck that preventing me from getting

6:26

work. To

6:28

do all this, I'm going to sit down with. Some of

6:30

the smartest, funniest, strongest, most passionate

6:32

women and people I know. And

6:35

some that I've never met before, I making

6:37

friends along. The. Way to I often feel

6:39

when an asbestos or since I'm Fred

6:41

just wanna says i think it supposed

6:44

to say yes but the sensors in

6:46

there because it's I. Didn't think I

6:48

could do this job at this point.

6:50

I have to be like clinically unconscious.

6:53

You could return to be the perfect

6:55

person. Like Stepford Wife and still

6:57

has the exact same outcome as someone

6:59

who's being authentic we truly themselves. And

7:02

wouldn't you rather live with a version

7:04

of yourself for you to look in

7:06

the mirror at night? I'll be talking

7:09

to household names. Experts.

7:11

Cultural. Commentators and they've all in some

7:13

way or another. borne. The brunt

7:15

of the labels. Will be picking apart. And

7:18

of course. I know.

7:21

A thing or two about these labels myself. My

7:25

hope. Is a my own

7:27

lived experience will help other women open up to

7:30

reveal the layers, the thrive with an all of

7:32

us and the truth that none of us are

7:34

alone in this world. That

7:36

the future is something we

7:39

get to write together and

7:41

for our first episode with

7:43

someone really exciting. Hours

7:46

of between. Very competitive. I

7:48

had to when I always

7:50

had to them slurry know

7:52

Williams my dear dear friend.

7:55

The greatest of all time.

7:58

I asked her to come on to talk with me. That

8:00

thirty. Early worse

8:03

when it comes to women. Ambition.

8:08

And little did the world now. And we also

8:10

have some. Other very things to

8:12

discuss. I'm

8:15

talking about silliness. Recently

8:17

announced evolution away from

8:19

tennis. Voted him and

8:21

dominance. Stay with me lot

8:23

to the race. Welcome.

8:32

To the dow were cast is clean

8:34

and we hardly know her but we're

8:37

still here. Figure in her out together

8:39

because Zoc season to his. Here

8:42

out. As hosts it every

8:44

week by me at Smile. Remember

8:46

I'm gonna be taught them to

8:48

all types of people about their

8:50

relationship. Too many reality. Stars

8:52

Entrepreneurs. Financial experts and even

8:54

some of my own France. Basically

8:56

anyone who will get real me

8:58

about their Dallas had they make

9:00

money, had they spend it and how

9:02

they say that because I'm Santa,

9:04

Retire early people. Season Two Other

9:06

Dell is out on March twenty

9:08

first where ever. You get your pack s.

9:12

Join. Us on Archetypes, a dynamic penthouse

9:14

hosted by Madden, the Duchess assess sex

9:16

as she digs into the labels that

9:18

try to hold women back. In.

9:21

Each intimate and candid conversation megatons

9:23

joined by guests like Serena Williams,

9:25

Mariah Carey, Paris Hilton, A Survey

9:28

and Trevor Noah as they delve

9:30

into the roots of countless com

9:32

and descriptors of women like Diva,

9:35

Crazy Dumb Blonde, and The Be

9:37

Word and redefine and reclaim each

9:39

identity along the way. The complete

9:42

season of archetypes is out now

9:44

forever. You get your podcasts, There's

9:48

an all girls Catholic school in

9:50

Los Angeles called Immaculate Heart. Back.

9:53

In the nineteen sixties and order of nuns including

9:55

many. Who taught of them accurate hearts? They wanted

9:57

to make some changes that the school to keep.

10:00

With more modern times they also

10:02

didn't want to wear the habit

10:04

and when the conservative cardinal the

10:06

archdiocese. Found out he was not interested

10:08

in this plan. No

10:10

matter how much the sisters tried to church

10:12

just, they wouldn't accept these. Changes So the

10:14

nuns had to make a choice. They

10:18

renounce their bows so they

10:20

could live their lives authentically

10:23

comfortably in on. Terms that

10:25

made sense to them. That doesn't mean

10:27

they lost their faith or their commitment

10:29

to social justice, but it meant was

10:31

they started their own community, A place

10:34

where they were recognized as for human

10:36

beings, not beholden to a system where

10:38

the patriarchy that they weren't comfortable with.

10:42

And they molded their school

10:44

Immaculate Heart. In their

10:46

new image. theologically. Driven.

10:50

But. Feminist. Hello,

10:53

I'm not Catholic. I wasn't raised Catholic.

10:56

But. About one year after my letter

10:58

writing campaign. I started

11:00

middle school and Immaculate Heart. I

11:03

stayed there through high school. He

11:06

was there for. Six years. In

11:09

this feminist ideology. Trickled.

11:11

Down into nearly every aspect of

11:14

my education. Spry. Safe

11:16

to say and every aspect of my life. This.

11:19

Message to me and my classmates was clear.

11:22

Our futures as young women.

11:25

Were. Limitless. Ambition.

11:29

That was the whole point. So.

11:31

I don't. Ever remember

11:33

personally feeling the negative connotation

11:36

behind the word Ambitious? Until

11:39

I started dating my now husband. And

11:42

damn. Apparently

11:44

ambition is a. Terrible.

11:47

Terrible thing. For. Woman

11:49

that as according to some. Since.

11:52

I felt the negativity behind it. It's

11:55

really hard to unseal it. I.

11:58

Can't on see it either? In.

12:00

The millions of girls and women who make

12:02

themselves. Smaller.

12:05

So. Much smaller. On a

12:07

regular basis. So. I wanted

12:10

to talk to someone who embodies. The.

12:12

Spirit of ambition. To.

12:14

See how she thinks about the word and

12:16

the connotation and how the other many labels

12:18

that a sect all women have affected her

12:21

To. Or

12:23

it. So here we are. Is

12:25

my first time cast. Good. Are

12:27

used to be part of the for a

12:29

fertility Of course let's make magic. Three

12:33

to Williams needs. No introduction

12:35

said. it's a bit a

12:37

talk about him isn't I

12:39

just have to give her

12:41

the proper that she absolutely

12:43

deserves. Three

12:45

hundred and nineteen weeks, ranked

12:47

number one by the Women's

12:49

Tennis Association. Twenty three Grand

12:51

slam singles titles, fourteen major

12:53

doubles titles, trendsetter, trailblazer, business

12:55

woman, mom, she's done it

12:58

all. And Serena recently shared

13:00

some pretty big news with

13:02

the world: she's retiring from

13:04

professional tennis. Or to use

13:06

her words, she's evolving away

13:08

from tennis that seeking continue

13:10

to grow her family and

13:12

focus on her. Other passions.

13:16

She's just a remarkable woman, and she's accomplished

13:18

all of this in the midst of a

13:20

culture of i'm. Sure,

13:24

he'd say this doesn't exactly

13:26

the prize. Ambitious women, let

13:28

alone ambitious black women. So

13:31

let's get into a. Fight.

13:33

You want of the I. Solicited.

13:36

stopped in low. As

13:39

hydrant. Good area. I like

13:41

what you do with your a recurring five.

13:44

Benkyo The to see you is always a

13:46

miss you guys. Will come see

13:48

us. I will make a plan for

13:50

they fell off. A

13:53

I was thinking about it when I tatiana respond,

13:55

i want to do Here's a concept. Here's the

13:57

idea. And. Just to stay.

14:00

Like these archetypes, but it's kind of stuff

14:02

you and I talk about so much these

14:04

boxes and labels and. Oh.

14:06

The things that. We. Both have been

14:08

called and witness each other being called. So.

14:11

I guess part of it just to set

14:13

the table is what made you want Do

14:15

this with me. Besides. Fact:

14:17

The I'm a girl others because I love

14:20

you See the you want me to do

14:22

and do things you I believe in you.

14:24

We've been friends for so long. I'm super

14:26

lawyer. You know that I'm I know. I

14:30

know I have no individual farms. remember when

14:32

we met for the first sonos? Thinking about

14:34

that, you know a third. That Green Room

14:36

oh my gosh not was because it was

14:38

the same year as the Superbowl win a

14:40

Superbowl. As a New York, I'd never been

14:42

before. And then they show up. And.

14:45

I see you. Walking.

14:47

Towards. Someone and I members can oh my

14:49

gosh was surreal for hims going to talk to

14:51

and I looked behind me and when I did,

14:54

hundred and. Front of me. Says

14:57

we became such thousand Iran we have

14:59

a lot in common. I now have

15:01

so much I mean the things that

15:03

people think and the things that people

15:06

don't that in our friendship when you

15:08

have to see things that are mischaracterizing

15:10

of me that you. Experience

15:12

behind closed doors, the pain that I'm going

15:15

through and vice versa, right? But I think

15:17

what's so interesting is even though that's on

15:19

a world stage, I

15:21

don't have that feels much different from. Any.

15:24

Woman, If you're on a small town and

15:26

you see someone saying something about your best

15:28

friend that is just completely untrue how that

15:30

feels in a when I saw you at

15:32

all the different archetypes that. Women

15:35

are affected by. And just in

15:37

terms of if a man is

15:39

ambitious for example that is so

15:42

celebrated. But. You look at a

15:44

woman. A woman like yourself. Who. I

15:46

think is incredibly ambitious and that's a testament

15:48

to who you are as a person. That's

15:50

also why you become so successful. when you

15:52

hear the word ambition. do you think of

15:54

it in a negative or positive way? I

15:57

was talking to you know, fools, my mom

15:59

and. Mr. But I

16:01

said I'm I have

16:03

to check myself because

16:06

I've been so I'm.

16:09

Blinded by society In our

16:11

is a man is ambitious.

16:13

Am I saying? Am I bringing our

16:15

society by saying a woman? Is it

16:17

something difference in ambitious? Of what do

16:19

I think of women that are ambitious?

16:22

Often women are definitely putting these different

16:24

boxes when we are ambitious, or when

16:26

we. when we do have goals, or

16:28

when we reach our goals, it's a

16:31

negative connotation on how we reached the

16:33

goals. But even for little girls

16:35

in a school room right of, the little

16:37

girl is ambitious or raises are hand more

16:39

when she called bossy well that's and that

16:42

I'm at. Was reading an article about

16:44

how girls tend to raise their hand

16:46

less and less as time goes on

16:48

because of their cars and starts to

16:51

become think that they're called. So

16:54

it's quite interesting on by the time

16:56

they're in high school and and for

16:59

sure and cause you're not raising their

17:01

hands as much so some hopefully we

17:03

can teach our girls to continue to

17:06

raise their hand and to be fearless.

17:08

While and you are Fearless! As a little

17:10

girl and so confident. I was seeing Eclipse

17:12

getting we out when you're eleven and they

17:14

said if you are a tennis player who

17:16

would you want to be like Dear member

17:19

This. Remember what you said.

17:25

Well. I tell if he did of the language. I

17:32

do. I said I wanted people to

17:34

be like mean honestly I. Couldn't.

17:36

Have written that better and a why I

17:39

said that because quite frankly of tennis or

17:41

with at the time but. Maybe

17:44

I knew something. I don't know. But.

17:46

It was something that any. and it's funny as

17:48

I think of it as I was eleven at

17:50

the same time and weren't the same age and

17:53

we grew up both in L A of socks.

17:55

Since this morning I resigned a hearing, I said,

17:57

you remember one of those. I'm in.

18:01

When they opened harrys early to say that a

18:03

slump and as are they talking about serena. I'm

18:07

not for us, are you know? I really

18:09

doubt that Human Eleven read and I'm like

18:11

I'm not from Thompson. I've never lived in

18:13

Taunton, my mom doesn't live in Compton. The

18:15

by the way, what's wrong with gotten sick

18:17

or serene and from next time. Hour Wait

18:19

A minute. I'm

18:21

so proud to be from Comes. In the to

18:23

see. My doctor dream

18:26

sometimes and you know. What's

18:29

his name of the actor Kevin?

18:31

Kevin Kline know I'm oh my

18:33

goodness I'm blanking. I don't intend

18:35

Avast nurse on com Kevin Costner

18:37

is from com to see? No

18:39

not yes he is Google it

18:41

is. Oh

18:43

my gosh, this is why don't even talk

18:45

about it. Isn't a fascinating and let as

18:48

amazing live. Pretty good at once. you

18:50

unfortunately can't. Iraq had. Claimed Thompson said,

18:52

I love that. Look at that. Both of us

18:54

at eleven years old growing up in L A,

18:56

that was the time that I've found a commercial

18:59

to be sexist and I wrote the letters and

19:01

that commercial.change That's the same time you at eleven

19:03

years old when someone says if you are tennis

19:05

player who would you want to be like and

19:07

you said I'd want other people to be like

19:09

me So there is something we obviously didn't know

19:11

he said or then. But. What was

19:14

it about our eleven year old

19:16

selves? Because. When you're

19:18

young, you're so. You.

19:20

Get to an age. I find your

19:22

so innocent, but you're also so fearless.

19:26

right? And that somehow as

19:28

we get older. Because.

19:30

Of these archetypes because of what society's

19:32

and because of the pressure of the

19:34

media Because of all this noise. I.

19:37

Don't think that were is fearless as

19:39

we were then and I think sometimes

19:41

vanishes As you say, I think

19:43

you're fearless. You're willing or so not true.

19:46

That. Is absolutely true. You're

19:49

fearless. Like isn't enough?

19:51

so silly, silly but

19:53

season like swimming or

19:56

with swimming suit. You

20:01

can get me in the ocean. and now

20:03

I'm so afraid of open water like it's

20:05

a joke, but yeah, it's fearless. Fear can

20:07

go on so many different levels. When you're

20:09

younger, you don't think about it. You

20:12

don't think about it. Everything is such. Such

20:15

an amazing experience in your and I see

20:17

it in Olympia. I see like how's the

20:19

earless he is and I encourage earth as

20:21

I'm free to hide our and I just

20:23

be like always has to read and see

20:25

like embrace as it is. I don't want

20:27

her to take on my fears and I

20:30

think that's important Less when you're raising a

20:32

child you don't let them. Catalonia has a

20:34

role modeling herself after all the other things

20:36

she sees about you with businesses and entrepreneurs

20:38

are not just isn't like. The. Greatest

20:40

tennis player of all time Such as

20:42

everything you're doing with your business you

20:44

know to watch that the investments you

20:47

may tell you to philanthropic work that

20:49

is the role modeling your daughter sees

20:51

that is on of version of ambition

20:53

that I think you know some people

20:55

don't. Maybe. See it because

20:57

they focus on only one media narrative. But.

21:00

At the end of the day it's.that I think is

21:02

the most incredible. I

21:04

hope she does. She students on then.

21:07

I don't even know if she knows

21:09

what I do/slash currently do I just

21:12

quest smart? I don't know, I don't

21:14

know, I don't have she really than

21:16

those who who I am one I

21:18

had to be like why does evers

21:20

and know your name and I'm like

21:22

oh. I don't know what

21:24

are not as a the that assisted

21:26

by yeah I think fearlessness is super

21:28

important and it's I think as you

21:30

grow with the experience as you get

21:33

you think of it as a wound

21:35

when if you burn yourself obviously you

21:37

don't set the fire again says you're

21:39

learnings behaviors that make you stop and

21:41

them gives you this this healthy fear

21:43

to there's a healthy Fears an email.

21:46

Canada's like a godly fears. Well, I'm and

21:48

it's not a bad thing. Is this? As

21:50

a. Precaution that we need and

21:52

then we also unfortunately games or

21:54

I experienced some unhealthy for years

21:56

and I know I've experienced that

21:58

in tennis for sure when you

22:00

know had a lot of bad

22:02

experiences a New York am. And

22:05

particular New York in other places

22:07

as well. But I'm. Just.

22:10

Is the open. it's thin. You know it's been

22:12

hard and know lot of people have seen it

22:14

in. This is what. Is that a lot of

22:16

no say in whether or not tonight and been

22:18

there because there's certain things that I know you

22:20

won't want to? About

22:23

your experience. But I lived through a lot of

22:25

that with you. Here. But

22:27

there's some exams I didn't deserve

22:29

at all. My gosh course he.

22:31

Retreated completely on narrow is it has it's

22:33

is wasn't one thing. I'm telling you the

22:36

reason I have trauma from it does

22:38

because it's since five things are more

22:40

I know I'm the first being the

22:42

reasons Park I like became like a

22:44

thing was that as they recall any

22:46

balls out and they were you close

22:49

by Six. Three

22:51

and suffering here to her U. S Health and Quarter

22:53

Finals match against Sen Capriati in two thousand.

22:57

Fall here is a

23:00

lie. The arrival Jennifer

23:02

Capriati serene of with

23:04

us. In

23:07

that match again this fear of sitting with

23:09

as every time I hit a ball that

23:11

will call it out no matter how close

23:14

it was a how far was. A

23:19

whole. Class and

23:21

it became. Impossible. To play

23:23

with I they just kept calling him

23:25

out. As soon

23:28

as a vital the sauces yeah I was.

23:41

So that was one of the first thing that

23:43

happened in. There is a plethora of thing that

23:45

happened after that fits. I'm. A.

23:47

Visually our I remember playing in Australia

23:49

years years later that I just didn't

23:52

have the serene it in the because

23:54

I was afraid I was afraid to

23:56

be sorry no because of all the

23:58

experiences that I've had. The

24:00

end up losing a match because

24:02

I was afraid to challenge or

24:04

to be myself and as I

24:07

can't win being someone different, apt

24:09

to win being serene I am.

24:13

And sometimes it's more Sears. But

24:15

is it fears? Wouldn't you know

24:17

guys are saying to mine and

24:20

and pump in their fists? it's

24:22

It's pretty exciting, but for me

24:24

it's pretty. It's. Aggressive

24:27

or it's I'm. What

24:29

do? I don't know they said that. I. Oh

24:32

my goodness on every get as is

24:34

One article is that this guy was

24:36

passionate and I was I was. I

24:38

had a meltdown hours like wait. How

24:40

do I have a meltdown? But this guy says

24:42

that is so. Now the double standards

24:44

and the endless. there's something that happens

24:47

and being archetypes that's really dehumanizing And

24:49

I think of that from my personal

24:51

standpoint of thing there in the box

24:53

of your me know your mom and

24:55

your sister and like watching you win

24:57

and at the same time watching that

25:00

pressure the external pressure the I knew

25:02

was mounting. we'd be at the open

25:04

only be at Wimbledon. He

25:07

and knowing that there's a real person behind

25:09

all of that. I find

25:11

a traumatizing suited to go back to

25:13

that moments where. I

25:15

feel you are treated so unfairly. And

25:18

it was reported on serially. but I would like us

25:20

to listen to some of the moments that men have

25:22

had on the court. That.

25:24

People don't seem to have. As.

25:26

Visceral. Response to. Be

25:28

happy to hear somebody his fellows. Sure,

25:31

Let's do it sooner. Travel

25:33

for six months Public schools

25:35

as. Well

25:39

because a lot of stuff that

25:41

the hearts of I have a

25:43

stronger than ever it's I voted

25:45

for President George Soros. Serious.

25:50

Serious. My.

26:05

Mind. Zimmer was

26:08

funny and love Atlanta values.

26:10

Imagine. If you had done that, You

26:14

imagine since I got

26:16

a game. Take it away from me

26:18

and that it usable Word it all. Blows

26:21

you. Put

26:24

enough on the I don't know, I just

26:26

still lives. There. Is obviously a double

26:29

standard the a Man's and whether people

26:31

want to admit it or not, that's

26:33

okay. But just or of

26:35

our it makes tennis more exciting

26:37

to see these players have these

26:40

emotions rightless? is this acidic? Simmons

26:42

is very. You know, black

26:44

and white? Not. Literally But like says

26:46

his leg he says his leg didn't hit

26:48

hit hit and there's so many rules of

26:50

thing that the if they try to tell

26:52

you not to do but if you look

26:54

at. Soccer if you look at basketball, if you look

26:57

at all these other. Sports you have people

26:59

screaming and yeah people, the fans really

27:01

a part of it as soon as

27:03

they are dirt grown up and taught

27:06

to just like the moto tone. and

27:08

some people. Are not monotone which is why

27:10

you see these attitudes of is one of

27:12

these attitudes I'm all for it does. Don't

27:15

say I can't either and you know that's

27:17

that's the only thing as I feel like

27:19

you know at let them be them but

27:21

in you know within reason obviously and again

27:23

I just. I do feel that there was

27:25

a moment where I wasn't proud of

27:27

it. how I acted in our behaved

27:29

and I. Am. I

27:32

didn't like how I behaved at all and

27:34

I think I was totally at fault. There's.

27:36

But I think that's what other romans one just like.

27:39

Being myself and I'm like I said I

27:41

got again taken away. When.

27:43

I didn't use the curse word that he

27:45

but not not one bad word, periods and

27:47

to so I just feel like there is

27:50

obviously a double standard. After.

27:55

The break silliness coming back with us and

27:58

talking about balancing her ambition. Being

28:00

a mom, And how that

28:02

played into her incredibly difficult

28:04

decision to step away from

28:06

professional tennis. Who's

28:09

sitting and also at the densest

28:11

typing him and the leading inside

28:14

big and being gay and then

28:16

crying and sitting at my computer

28:18

and tears streaming down my face

28:21

as I'm writing These Bird. Hi

28:34

there is Julia Louis Dreyfus. You may

28:36

know me from my podcast called flies

28:38

Through the Me where I toss older

28:40

women and get their wisdom from the

28:43

frontlines of nice. After season one else

28:45

was a key. How many people to

28:47

hold me our so made them look

28:49

forward to getting older which is why

28:51

I'm here to talk about season. some

28:53

of the said Sally Field, Billie Jean

28:55

King of really chances Are Your Garden

28:57

Bonnie Raitt listening the for You and

28:59

of course my nine year old man's

29:02

Use It All Hail Limit. Why?

29:04

Did anything intuit out March Twenty seven

29:06

from women? Not a media. People.

29:11

Love to pretend that there are

29:13

simple formulas for living your best

29:15

life. Now eat this and you

29:17

won't get sick, manifested and everything

29:19

will work out. But.

29:21

There are some things you can choose and

29:23

some things you can't. And

29:25

it's okay that life isn't always

29:27

getting. I'm

29:30

keep are and on Everything happens.

29:32

I speak with kind, smart funny

29:34

people about life as it really

29:36

is. Beautiful. Terrible

29:39

and everything in between.

29:42

Let's be human together. Everything

29:44

Happens is available where you get.

29:46

Your Podcasts. Welcome.

29:50

Back. So I've been talking with

29:52

Ten, a superstar cultural icon, and

29:55

my friend Serena Williams about the

29:57

boxes that she's been putting you

29:59

over the years, including. This

30:02

idea that she's too

30:04

aggressive to louder. Ah,

30:06

there, I even say

30:08

it too ambitious. We're.

30:11

Going to jump back into that conversation

30:13

in just a minute. But first, I

30:15

just wanted to dig a little bit

30:17

deeper on this idea of the quote

30:19

unquote ambitious woman. So. I thought

30:21

let's not a professional, something that you're gonna see

30:23

us do from time to time in the series.

30:26

And for this we. Spoke. To Dr. Laura trying

30:28

she's a professor at the hostel. A Business

30:30

at U C. Berkeley and the

30:33

Faculty University Center For Equity, Gender

30:35

and Leadership. She. Focuses or

30:37

research on how ambitious women are viewed

30:39

in society and especially in the workplace.

30:41

and her research. It helps give context

30:43

to these double standard screen and I

30:45

were just talking about. As

30:49

researchers, we run experiments

30:52

and we give people

30:54

scenarios. Men versus women.

30:57

We. See that be identical behavior

30:59

is rated more negatively when

31:01

it is a woman Them

31:03

when in this man. So.

31:06

An ambitious woman is power

31:08

hungry, is manipulative, is not

31:10

trusted whereas of ambitious man

31:12

is seen as I want

31:14

to emulate him. He's a

31:17

role model, He's a captain

31:19

of industry. right? So we

31:21

see people using these different

31:23

terms from the identical behavior.

31:25

So the only explanation is

31:27

it boils down to antipathy

31:29

towards lemon. and it's almost.

31:32

You know the sixes in

31:34

it's it's by design. It's.

31:36

A way of keeping women in their

31:38

place. And.

31:40

Often times when women don't quote stay

31:43

in their place as they say. It.

31:45

Comes with a lot of back. Labels

31:48

thrown at them like she's a

31:50

climber see so competitive, Which in

31:52

turn leads to this ripple effect

31:54

of even more negative labels. If

31:57

I'm going to acknowledge that you are an

31:59

extremely. Competitive. Person

32:01

or athlete. Or whatever domain

32:04

we're talking to has to

32:06

be something wrong. And women

32:08

often gets stereotyped as hysterical,

32:10

right? Not rational, too emotional.

32:12

So if that's a label

32:15

you want to apply to

32:17

somebody, then you will generate

32:19

evidence consistent with it and

32:21

use that against as it

32:23

was used so often against

32:26

my friends Rena. And

32:28

this workplace backlash continues when it comes. To

32:30

another big role that many women play. As

32:34

Mom's. Ambitious women

32:36

who have children and then

32:38

come back to words an

32:40

attempt to perform at the

32:42

highest levels are on violating

32:44

people's expectations of what's the

32:47

most important thing for women

32:49

to be is to be

32:51

nurturing and to love children

32:53

and and so anything that.

32:56

A woman does that

32:58

could potentially. Call.

33:00

That into doubt. Is. Going to.

33:02

Incur backlash when men have children

33:04

and they take time off and

33:06

then they come back. They often.

33:09

Experience a boost in in

33:11

their pay. People. Will say

33:13

well he's got kids now We need

33:15

to help him to support his family

33:17

and it benefits. Them for a are wise

33:20

when when they have kids. The

33:22

double standard between how men and women are

33:24

treated after having kids is. So

33:26

so real. I

33:29

felt it. And. It's certainly

33:31

been a big part of three stories, where. Do.

33:34

You feel like it was different for you and

33:36

the pressure is that you experience to were were

33:39

treated with. Once. You had

33:41

Olympia and we're back on the

33:43

court. Yeah, absolutely. I'm people. Will

33:45

they always ask me how do you do the

33:47

of mom worked balance and even my husband He

33:49

talks about about the time his legs. They never

33:52

ask me that this blink know is your dad

33:54

Now do you never have to worry about why

33:56

are you doing this or how do you balance

33:58

your time and. I'm.

34:02

So. It's it's. always different. Again, this goes

34:05

tits the goes where I said in the

34:07

beginning, this is hundreds of years. Maybe thousands

34:09

of years of. I

34:11

can't say thousand and that's

34:14

silly. Hundreds of years of

34:16

a hundreds of years. Millions

34:18

and millions one in. The

34:20

Dinosaurs roamed the earth. Pacific

34:22

consists of our minds. Being.

34:25

Conditioned. To thinking one

34:27

way you know I'm always devil's advocate

34:29

mom to morning by know that now

34:31

there's more to have said do a

34:33

lot but mom's traditionally do more which

34:36

is why they always ask how you

34:38

how do you balance his mom had

34:40

he's how are you gonna be able

34:42

to play tennis and be able to

34:44

still have a kid Because quite frankly

34:46

we there and we're there and will

34:48

breastfeeding and we're this rock and that

34:51

they really I'll never forget. This is

34:53

that the experience and I regard for

34:55

like same. Thing about it publicly. On.

34:58

The. French Open. The. Was that

35:01

year where that infamous catsuit. The

35:03

the one piece black hole. I

35:05

remember that serene. Williams there at

35:07

a friend's house when winning in

35:09

a straight sets. Very ever loving

35:12

that else, understandably. Ah I was

35:14

his eyes out for that class and

35:16

have legs. So

35:18

that year johanna olympia and that

35:20

had an i had a match

35:22

the next day and that night.

35:25

See she fell on our high chair

35:28

and broker it and she was on

35:30

my was an i was basically devastated

35:32

like a little accident the arm i

35:34

felt so guilty adjusts anyway so she's

35:36

now we went to the hospital and

35:39

see had a small tear a break

35:41

and arrest of she had to get

35:43

a cast him and we didn't get

35:45

back to leg or in the morning.

35:48

Me while I was. Of course of

35:51

the one day I was playing early ever holding

35:53

her last night and just like rotting her to

35:55

sleep and says like at his didn't let her

35:57

out of my sight That point is I was.

36:00

It h and I'm hard on myself and

36:02

I'm a little bit of a perfectionist, but

36:04

I was so mad at myself for it

36:06

even allowing that to happen. So I think

36:08

I got like thirty minutes of sleep and

36:10

then I had to go quite as mad

36:12

and I'm just thinking, how am I gonna

36:15

play. City

36:17

sponsored By far the best voices.

36:29

And somehow managed to win. But.

36:32

I was so emotionally span and just like

36:34

so emotionally drained that it was. It was

36:37

crazy and he now and then like every

36:39

night after that I just was with or

36:41

the whole time was like you're going to

36:43

be with me and I just took a

36:45

lot on but. Mom's. Do a

36:47

lot. I can look at my mom I don't

36:49

know how she had five kids I don't know like

36:52

as as you are such an amazing. Mom and

36:54

that kind of story and I would

36:56

drop anything at any time. To.

36:59

Whatever had to do for olympia middle of a

37:01

grand slam final, I would leave. Of I had

37:03

and yet he still show up and do. The

37:06

match you still sub into the other thing with

37:08

without people having a of what was happening behind

37:10

the scenes and I think what so key and

37:13

for us as women and just. Not.

37:15

Just women. I think our husbands a really

37:17

good at this. Other men need to get

37:19

even better at. This is one was recognizing

37:21

what people don't see right to when you

37:23

wouldn't play that much the next morning. no

37:25

one knew what your night had been like

37:27

the night before. They forgot that human piece

37:29

of at sea. As it's like when we

37:31

went on our tour to South Africa. we

37:33

landed with Archie. Archie was what four and

37:35

a half months old. And

37:37

the moment we landed, we had to drop him

37:39

off it. Is this a housing units

37:41

at the it had a staying in he was

37:43

gonna get ready to go down for his nap.

37:45

We immediately went to an official engagement in this

37:47

township. Called me anger and there's is. Moment. Where

37:50

I'm standing on a tree. Stump. And I'm giving a

37:52

speech to women and girls and we finish

37:54

the engagement. We get in the car and

37:56

they say. There's been a

37:58

fire at the residence. Why?

38:01

There's been a fire. In.

38:03

The baby's room, What?

38:07

Saw. Him he talked. About. This

38:09

now that we're in the car sit we're

38:11

just llantwit just landed at what an hour

38:14

or two hours before racing back. We get

38:16

back are amazing nanny Lauren who beat had

38:18

all the way into if I'm in Canada

38:21

here Lauren and slugs the tears she was

38:23

posted put Archie down for his nap and

38:25

she just said you know what let me

38:27

just go and get a snack downstairs as

38:30

use his movies from Zimbabwe and we loved

38:32

it Should always tie him on her her

38:34

back with the mud cloth and her instincts.

38:37

It's a gloomy, just bring him with me.

38:39

Before I put him down in that amount of

38:41

time that she went downstairs. Current earn

38:43

visitors in the nursery caught

38:45

on fire. There. Was

38:47

no smoke detector. Some what

38:49

happened to smell smoke down the hallway, wind

38:52

and fire sing west. He was

38:54

or be sleeping in there. And

38:56

we came back. And of course, as a

38:59

Merida. Oh. My. God. Everyone's

39:02

in tears, everyone shaken and what

39:04

we have to do. Go out

39:06

and do another official engagement. Mrs

39:08

doesn't make any sense can use of. Or

39:11

to do not bring her. As I can you

39:13

just tell people what happened. And

39:16

so much I think optically. The

39:19

focus ends up being on how it looks instead

39:21

of how it feels and part of the humanizing.

39:23

In the breaking through these labels nice

39:25

archetypes. These boxes of were put into

39:27

is having some understanding on the human

39:29

moments behind the scenes that people might

39:31

not have any awareness of and to

39:33

give each other a break Because we

39:35

did, we had to leave her baby.

39:39

And even though when they moved.

39:41

Into another place afterwards. And.

39:48

I couldn't the done man I was

39:50

entered the hours well. These

39:57

human moments behind. The scenes.

40:00

The ones under the surface. They

40:03

are everything. Because.

40:05

We don't swim in the shallow end.

40:08

And instead she said, dive into the deep end.

40:11

That's when we gain a more nuanced understanding

40:13

of each other. And

40:16

speaking of those moments, Salinas just

40:18

been through a big one. Them

40:21

all the world now knows the big news. That

40:24

serene. A That serene. A

40:27

Williams is stepping away from

40:29

professional tennis. A backstory. In

40:31

the ceilings underneath it all. I think those

40:34

are less well known. Now

40:36

when we originally recorded. This conversation

40:39

the news have seen as evolution

40:41

away and tennis wasn't yet public.

40:45

I know their plans as you'll

40:47

soon here, but the screen and

40:49

I couldn't quite talk openly about

40:51

it in this type of foreign.

40:54

She's my friend. I wasn't gonna

40:56

betray that trust. The

40:58

know that we can. I

41:01

knew that I had to. Color up and

41:03

record some more. Of this because even

41:05

though we talk all the time,

41:07

you guys needed to hear this

41:09

to secure the deeper story behind

41:11

the scenes of this monumental decision.

41:15

Hey you say you look I'm from my little

41:17

Us Open baseball cap. My cap today I said

41:20

lot of get into the mood. I have a

41:22

few minutes and I didn't. I. Don't cite

41:24

a rare done so what does this

41:26

is not. The theme is regarded as

41:28

the pot. Yeah, I know, right? My

41:30

eyes swelled for my flight of like

41:32

oh my. Ah

41:36

my Beautiful! I feel I was

41:38

like oh my gosh here we

41:40

go. Coffee. And and then I try to feel

41:42

really she can give myself a biscotti as it did not

41:44

feel like I'm on vacation. Reason: On a vacation

41:46

into baseball. Capital Sell obviously and

41:48

in you know were texting the

41:51

other day. And

41:53

he's holding. Out

41:55

it out knows. How

41:58

does it feel for how. Will

42:01

you know I've struggled with it for

42:03

awhile on. I don't know I was

42:05

saying to someone, I'm gonna be crying

42:07

at everything and so don't think I'm

42:09

sad. It's sad. sad. Tears are just

42:11

like. I don't know what

42:14

to call on you know I like I cry

42:16

at at a by look at a butterfly so

42:18

but yeah it's it's weird to see you have

42:20

to think about it. I've been. Doing this since.

42:23

I was odd since I can

42:25

remember and I'm forty years old

42:27

now. So it's like my whole

42:30

entire being and my whole entire

42:32

life. Has. Been for

42:34

one purpose so to China. Not

42:37

do that anymore. It's it's exciting,

42:39

right? I'm really looking forward to

42:41

it. As you know, I'm honestly

42:43

I can't wait to wake up

42:45

one day and literally never have

42:47

to worry about. Performing.

42:50

On such a high level and you

42:53

know you know, competing. And I've actually

42:55

never felt that Amid Up, had a

42:57

baby and I stopped and I've had

42:59

injuries, but there was always somewhere in

43:01

the back of my mind that it's

43:04

still a possibility. So for it to

43:06

just be completely gone is is it's

43:08

new territory for me. and I'm like

43:10

I said, I'm happy about it. but

43:12

it's just also something that I've actually

43:15

literally have never experienced. A minor. Something

43:17

really great about that that it's

43:19

a new chapter. It's a new

43:21

know course. It has layers I

43:23

can understand. Like. I think most

43:25

people can. We all have our own version of

43:27

it. Renewed oil over the stasis. Pray over. To

43:29

send you cry over decision and then

43:31

you make. That decision? Yeah. And when

43:34

you send me the peace. I

43:37

just thought I'd know. Course it

43:39

has layers I can understand. Like.

43:42

I think most people can. We all have our own

43:44

version of it. Really toil over this to secede pray.

43:46

Over to send you cry over decision.

43:48

And then you make that decision. Yeah

43:51

and when you send me the peace. I

43:54

just thought oh wow. Canaries

43:56

rak I have a semi when we I need to talk

43:58

to you. Are

44:00

you knew about it for a long time? when

44:02

I talked with Harry about it a lot as

44:04

well. And in I remember that day you were

44:06

here at the house and I was at what are

44:08

you to bitches and chatting about for assault and miss

44:11

Been like an hour downs. He was trying to

44:13

knock some sense in the mail. and to say

44:15

i'm just you know is I. Think most of

44:17

us. Are the three of

44:19

us really knows? That. Sometimes

44:22

the right decision. Isn't.

44:24

The easiest decision? the hard. A

44:26

hard decision. Yeah, and it takes

44:29

a Latino and a lot of

44:31

council on a lot of support

44:33

to just go. Ah, and men

44:35

just make the choice. I

44:37

just wanted to just. Walk. Away quietly

44:39

and that have always a my career

44:41

Just like array of is in a

44:43

leave with no goodbye. To

44:45

do that. No One. Was. No, no one in the planet

44:48

would let you do that. You are to Loved

44:50

the I mean I am. I'm What I'm most

44:52

excited about is that. The last

44:54

hurrah will. Be. At

44:57

the Us open to the at home. And

45:00

yeah in you guys have known about you

45:02

know of. I've been trying to decide what

45:04

to do and I've been like in and

45:06

out not really sure where to go and

45:08

that's the worst place to be as on

45:10

the since as you know. So it's like

45:12

make a decision, either be in it or

45:14

be out of it and you not was

45:17

on the since for while because I love

45:19

what I do and like I said have

45:21

been doing this my entire existence as even

45:23

before was born. It was when I was

45:25

in mid to do and what I was

45:27

supposed to do a book was chosen for

45:29

me so. Yeah, it's it's hard

45:31

and I since you that article early does

45:34

I want you to see it as I

45:36

also wanted you to see that. Or.

45:38

I am way to read about. It is today. Than

45:42

it was I got. We've got around for a

45:44

long shot at can I get about little add

45:46

up to they get sick. When.

45:49

I was just one. It utilizes understand what

45:51

it meant to have your support and for

45:53

a to support for everything to the since

45:55

it's been hard you know like you've been

45:58

in the locker rooms where have been. Really

46:00

down and. Debating.

46:03

Why am I even doing this? But. Ultimately,

46:05

I love what I do and that's why I'm still

46:07

doing and it's good I a chance to. Go.

46:10

Out there and haven't a nice

46:12

goodbye I but I'm definitely will

46:14

be. Very emotional but it's not

46:17

like as yeah it's not sad tears

46:19

but there are said years but it's

46:21

not like. That. He is

46:23

were like are you okay, serenely not You

46:25

know it's different. It's totally different and honestly

46:27

I don't know how. Mana Zealand. Three weeks

46:29

Or four weeks. I just, I don't

46:31

know. My whole life has been one

46:33

thing and so now I can focus

46:35

on Syrian adventures, which I'm excited about.

46:38

That that's why like the are calling it

46:40

an evolution in evolution right versus a retirement

46:43

Because words are so powerful. That's what this

46:45

whole. So as about spread the word that

46:47

you chosen described this doesn't mean something

46:49

is staffed one specific. Part Of you. A

46:51

Huge part of you. Has stopped

46:53

in the way that you've known it. But

46:55

it doesn't mean that stuff's being a part

46:57

of you and it doesn't mean that you

46:59

as a person stop know you've all than

47:01

to something else and continue the evolution which

47:03

you and I both love so much which

47:05

is being a mom. Yeah,

47:08

I love being there and I'm excited about

47:10

that. I'm and it's so funny. I do

47:12

like the word evolution. As is like, I

47:15

don't once. I. Don't like the word

47:17

retirement as it has like. I

47:19

don't like it for me in this

47:21

scenario cause I will never retire from

47:23

something that you absolutely love it. I've

47:25

always have some sort of involvement in

47:28

a Won't Be Professionally but I will

47:30

always. Want to

47:32

be involved and in some way, shape

47:34

or form and tennis? You know? Obviously

47:36

I'm retired. Professionally. but it's awesome

47:38

evolution. I'm doing more business. Things

47:40

and are really one us expand my

47:43

family. You. Know I've been put it offers

47:45

so long and as a woman there's always though.

47:48

So long as you can put that off

47:50

and you know other people out other men

47:52

out there are kids into to play boats.

47:55

But I love being a woman and I love

47:57

I love to being pregnant. You know, I was

47:59

one of the. You know you you

48:01

know there was like know as long

48:03

as the nothing own with the belly

48:05

to I was literally added was i

48:07

will always Yeah every fusion made significant

48:10

saw several the i just want old

48:12

around. And. Physicists

48:14

I was notice I

48:16

always yeah I will.

48:18

Be annoying when you're under

48:20

labia threads to farm, but.

48:23

I. Have to say that it's

48:25

is I look forward to. I

48:27

think I. You. Know I've

48:29

been fortunate to play tennis really well, but

48:31

I think my best is being a mom

48:34

I think I can really annoying good night

48:36

and the way that you'd shows interesting you

48:38

just. Said in i'm playing tennis was

48:40

something that was chosen for you like

48:42

this was your path right? Him before

48:44

like is something higher than that, us

48:47

even a family choice like this was

48:49

you're calling. But it's so

48:51

interesting now. how does it feel

48:53

to be choosing a path for

48:55

yourself? Oh. My

48:58

gosh, I love how you subsequently

49:00

city always put things differently. Yeah

49:02

is tennis was chosen for me

49:05

and I love that choice and

49:07

I couldn't have made a better

49:09

choice rates so I was really

49:11

happy that that happen. But now.

49:15

For the first time. In

49:17

my entire life, I'm choosing to

49:19

do something and it's hard to

49:21

this like. It's.

49:23

Something I've actually never done, have

49:26

always. Done something different.

49:28

And I've always enjoyed it

49:30

so much. but I'm. Making

49:33

a different choice and once you

49:35

know to to stop doing what

49:37

I love into have. Hopefully

49:40

have more kids and to

49:42

insert focus on other things

49:44

and to. Do. More

49:46

with you know others have that. Are

49:48

One takes a lot of our i think

49:50

to the star something in many ways than

49:52

to keep. Going sometimes. Ah,

49:55

when you go out on the

49:58

court. At. The you. Open

50:00

like I know how my not gonna cry

50:02

like I mean this is almost unfair. You

50:05

know it's like okay sorry that I'm gonna

50:07

go out there and like i dunno maybe

50:09

a by hopefully of i can get through

50:11

a couple matches then maybe I'll still better

50:13

but I think that missile it's gonna be

50:16

hard is is every time I step out

50:18

there are some but it's literally my last

50:20

time and I got. Chills, ion cells

50:22

and thing about already. Astor.

50:26

Like. After

50:28

like twenty something years of a

50:30

career, you know, nothing but my

50:33

first grand slam was in Nineteen

50:35

Ninety Nine. Helming Auto the

50:37

At. The year that I graduated high school.

50:39

Is simply a nice.

50:42

Way the you graduated high school years

50:44

for your and slam. My.

50:46

First grand slam when yeah I got a three

50:49

minutes was up. Me when you put it like

50:51

I. Would. Have. That kind

50:53

of perspective that's insane. That same when the I

50:55

that years when I had. I like

50:57

that. Stop right? It's like three male. I was running like

50:59

I. Was not the is teething anything like

51:01

that that when I was driving my little

51:03

niece on with their license I told him

51:06

as had classy girl of lack of up

51:08

winning grand slams. I'm just excited to see

51:10

I'm excited to see all that! I love

51:12

how. You shared this. News to

51:14

as if so much of this is

51:16

about making the choice, You made the

51:19

choice Huge Jose! The words. Said

51:22

that you could control this story and

51:24

how it landed. You could. you could

51:26

control and choose how you relate that

51:28

to all of your supporters in your

51:30

fans. And I think that for me. Is

51:32

when you same. You look

51:34

at a butterfly in a could make you tear

51:36

up. Yes, because as an emotional element to everything

51:38

that's happening right now. But. It's

51:41

because. You're choosing. In

51:43

many ways, this. Freedom,

51:45

This liberation, this new, this new, this.

51:47

And I love that. I love that

51:50

so much. How hard was it defined?

51:52

All those. Words. To

51:54

put pen to paper. And and why did you choose

51:56

to do it that way and not in interviews? Yeah,

52:00

It wasn't very easy like

52:02

I remember. I. Was it's

52:04

random we I was in Switzerland I

52:06

was sitting and I'll tell at the

52:08

desk as typing and and deleting and

52:11

typing and think and then crying and

52:13

sitting at my computer and. Tears

52:16

streaming down my face as

52:18

I'm writing these words and.

52:21

Going. Back on these memories and

52:23

those is like God exists. It

52:25

was really hard. I.

52:29

Mean what I was like, if I'm gonna do this,

52:31

it has to be votes for issue, right? I was

52:34

Er M Sir analysts Gray Fox. It

52:38

doesn't get it, doesn't get better than

52:40

that. So yes Anna was really grateful

52:42

and super supportive and have kept it

52:44

secret soon as it was like we

52:46

did that photos little while ago or

52:49

so beautiful that tix the enact. Gown

52:51

and obese or and a lumpy all the

52:53

whole saying that for you to and tell

52:55

me about that. I got the surprise. I

52:57

said I'll she saw messing around your

53:00

stunning sees You know I got always

53:02

saying well yes yeah it's to see

53:04

you work your you guys are. Inseparable

53:07

at the sweetest thing we live as

53:09

a it at my son's mother rabbits.

53:11

Is there anything that you want to

53:13

say to all the people that love

53:15

you? I, I

53:18

said it all in my article. That's.

53:21

Ah, You

53:23

know I love the more all

53:25

the support that have gotten over

53:28

the years in I could never

53:30

dreamed of it into here. Every

53:32

one so happy and so intense

53:34

and like I'm just from Compton

53:37

and never. I

53:39

never vision that this would be

53:41

me. You know I just was

53:43

the youngest of five months and

53:46

a two bedroom home in to

53:48

have people. Really supporting

53:50

and really their to just.

53:54

Hang on and to every

53:57

day existence the most amazing.

54:00

Periods in the most amazing ride

54:02

and. Ah and

54:04

I am so grateful for every moment

54:06

that everyone has been. Then I remix

54:09

and cry ah just saw Ds in

54:11

run his Armies as Airbus there so

54:13

sad now they are ever went to

54:15

the loo I'm not gonna lie voters

54:18

and I know I am at my

54:20

why am I getting a much loss

54:22

I'm just thinking about I was thinking

54:24

about that. Your. Final

54:26

Twirl Be A signature twirl. And that

54:29

moment when you just. Don't like a. Lotta

54:32

Draw some areas is just

54:34

some twirled right on. I'm

54:36

also a refund site. A sort

54:39

of like way is part of revolution. Bars

54:42

Clue advert World's a glass of ice

54:44

to melt the ice ago. yeah we're

54:46

gonna have a glass of champagne. As

54:48

you said, we will make sure you

54:50

get a get one. Us

54:57

I am so so.

54:59

Deeply proud of her. Tears

55:03

to your Selena. And

55:06

now to close things out. There

55:08

is a little sex and here and archetypes that

55:10

we call. Three. Words.

55:14

At the end of each of these conversations,

55:16

What I want. With. The same

55:18

series of questions is to hold a space

55:20

for you as a guest. To. Define

55:22

your says. What

55:24

three words would you use to describe

55:26

yourself as a kid? Oh, as a

55:28

kid As a kid. Oh. I

55:31

was very quiet and still

55:33

some arthritis and so as

55:35

sake why. Very

55:38

competitive. I had to when

55:40

I always had when. And

55:43

I was extremely competitive. My

55:45

goodness. Oh and really insane

55:47

perfectionists. Legs to a fault.

55:50

So. Quiet, competitive, and a

55:52

perfectionist. So what three

55:54

words would use to describe yourself Now today

55:56

is the woman that you are. I'm I

55:58

would say thoughtful. So. Listen I'm

56:01

I would say. Compassionate.

56:04

I try to be very

56:06

compassionate and else a very

56:08

funny first time I decided

56:10

no lights are successful ponies.

56:12

And I love the you're One of the Us

56:14

doesn't always laugh at my jokes. Aside,

56:17

that's either were the only two people in the

56:19

world. In find each other funny or

56:21

were genuinely funny That I mean most

56:23

of our time setting and seven all

56:26

our. A militant low

56:28

grades were on. A

56:30

cell goods of what does the difference

56:32

or similarity? Those words tell me and

56:34

tell you about your life. I mean

56:36

I, I hear that and I go

56:38

that's gross you out on say to

56:40

her own holiday season and dimensionality like

56:42

that's the whole point. You can be

56:44

all of those things as part of

56:46

being a fully fledged human beings are

56:48

ultimately. how do you define yourself and

56:50

how do you want. The world to

56:53

see you as my last question

56:55

for you. So I define myself

56:57

as A On Selena. I'm powerful

56:59

and I have a voice and

57:02

I'm not afraid to use it's

57:04

and on the out or really

57:06

to find myself as someone is

57:08

super understanding and season how I

57:11

try to be. As a mom

57:13

I try to be extremely understand,

57:15

really thoughtful and extremely compassionate. I

57:17

try are really trying to do

57:20

those things and. Yeah

57:22

and I think above on just i'm

57:24

just mom and I love the and.

57:41

That was serene A Williams. We.

57:43

Were talking about ambition. A

57:46

marker of drives. And a commitment

57:48

to achievements. And

57:50

yet as you heard in my

57:53

chat with my dear friend, the

57:55

notion of ambition comes with many

57:57

judgments and nuances specially for women.

58:00

And the conception that if you're. An ambitious woman.

58:02

You have an agenda he must

58:04

be calculating or yourself. This are

58:06

aggressive or climber. And. That

58:09

if you're that's. Dear Sir Strong are brave

58:11

and you. Somehow to serve what ever is

58:13

thrown at you. However, disproportionate are

58:15

unfair. It may be. And

58:18

even when it's more than most could endure. Most

58:20

men, most any one. Sometimes

58:23

ambition and women also seems to suggest

58:25

that you aren't afraid of anything. But

58:28

as you heard serene a say. Of

58:31

course the are still exists. I've

58:34

lived through. Them with her. The

58:36

sphere of making this recent decision. Maybe.

58:39

Not as you're swimming in the ocean. Sorry.

58:41

Anna. Sir And that my

58:44

little mermaid? Ironically, who can't bear

58:46

being in the dark, open waters

58:48

of the See. Are

58:50

also share that she has a fear of heights. Truth

58:53

is. I'm afraid

58:56

of heights to. And

58:58

maybe that's a point. That

59:00

the perception and reality they're just

59:02

never really the same thing. To

59:06

Ah Salinas soon closing her chapter of

59:08

playing professional tennis. She's.

59:11

Not shutting the door on her ambition.

59:14

She's going to continue to do great

59:16

things to be the greatest of all

59:19

time off the court. To

59:21

be ambitious. And I

59:23

think. That's a beautiful

59:25

thing. And

59:28

I can't wait to chat with you

59:31

again next week when we hear from

59:33

the one and only. Mariah

59:39

Carey. Ah at the really good

59:41

one! Will see guys next week!

59:44

Thanks for joining me as ever!

59:46

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