0:00

Hello friend. Thank you so much for downloading this

0:02

broadcast, and it is my sincere hope

0:04

that you will hear something that will encourage, equip,

0:06

edify, enlighten and then get you out

0:08

there in the marketplace of ideas. But before you go

0:10

and start listening to the broadcast, let me

0:12

take one moment and introduce you to this month's Truth

0:15

Tool. It's a book called misled,

0:17

and I chose this book because when you start listening

0:19

to some of the things that are being taught from the front

0:21

of the church today, it's disconcerting.

0:24

Legalism, overemphasis on prosperity,

0:26

a warped sense of grace, harmful

0:29

ideas that will turn people off from

0:31

the gospel and lead them away. That's

0:33

why I've chosen the book misled. The

0:35

purpose of this book is to help you learn how

0:37

to identify false teachings, while at

0:39

the same time finding joy in the gospel

0:42

with all its power and its simplicity.

0:44

Where listener supported radio. These truth

0:46

tools are my way of not only helping you grow up

0:49

in him, but they help our program as well financially.

0:51

So simply call 877 Janet

0:53

58 877 Janet

0:55

58. Give a gift of any amount and I'll send

0:57

you as a way of saying thank you. A copy of the

0:59

book misled. You might also want

1:01

to go online in the market with Janet parshall.org

1:04

scolded the bottom of the page. There's the cover

1:06

of the book misled. Click it on make

1:09

your donation. Take you less than two minutes and

1:11

I'll send it right off to you again as my way of saying

1:13

thank you. While you're on that website, linger for

1:15

just a moment longer. Just below misled

1:18

is a description of what it means to be a partial partner.

1:20

Those are people who give every single month at

1:22

a level of their own choosing. They always

1:24

get the truth tool each and every month, but they get something

1:27

else. I put out a newsletter every

1:29

single week that includes a copy of my radio

1:31

transcript, and the only people who get that are my

1:33

partial partners, as well as an audio piece just

1:36

for those who are partial partners. So if

1:38

you want to support this program on a monthly basis,

1:40

again, you choose the level. My way of saying

1:42

thank you is sending you a copy of each and every

1:44

month's truth tool and a weekly copy

1:46

of our newsletter. So in the market with

1:48

Janet parshall.org, scroll to the bottom

1:50

of the page or call 877

1:52

Janet 58 877

1:55

Janet 58. Again this month's truth

1:57

tool misled to help you better

1:59

contend for the faith. And now please enjoy

2:01

the broadcast.

2:02

Here are some of the news headlines we're watching.

2:04

The conference was over. The president won a pledge.

2:06

Americans worshiping government over God.

2:09

Extremely rare safety move

2:11

by a.

2:11

May 17th years. The Palestinians

2:13

and Israelis negotiated is

2:16

not and.

2:30

Hi friends. Welcome to In the Market with

2:32

Janet Parshall. I am so thankful that we're

2:34

going to spend the hour together, because we're going to

2:36

talk about something that really needs

2:38

exposure to sunlight, and that is the issue

2:40

of trauma, whether it's a little

2:42

trauma, a lifelong trauma, whether

2:44

it's happened over a long period of time or happened

2:47

suddenly this side of Eden,

2:49

just about all of us are going to experience

2:51

some trauma over something.

2:53

And our guest, Doctor Gregory Jan, says we

2:55

can know triumph over trauma,

2:58

but first we have to understand it. I am thrilled

3:00

he's going to spend the hour with us. He's

3:02

a popular speaker, an award winning author of

3:04

multiple multiple books including Healing

3:06

the Scars of Emotional Abuse and

3:08

So Much to Live For. He's the founder

3:11

of The Center A place

3:13

of Hope. It's located in Edmonds, Washington.

3:15

It is fabulous. It is continually voted

3:17

as one of the best residential programs out there

3:20

for dealing with some mental health issues,

3:22

and it's just a blessing to the church

3:24

when he writes over and over and over again. So

3:26

we are going to talk about trauma, and I think a great place

3:28

to start after my thanking you for

3:30

the gift of your time, Doctor Jan, because I can't return

3:33

what you're about to give me. And I know you're going

3:35

to offer comfort to a whole lot of people listening

3:37

all across the country is really and truly

3:39

start with the word trauma. Because for a whole lot of people,

3:42

you think of trauma, you think of post-traumatic

3:44

stress syndrome, you think of the battlefield, okay?

3:46

That's trauma. What happened to me? That's not

3:49

trauma. So we need to get on the same page

3:51

as somebody who understands this world,

3:54

how from a, from a if a clinician

3:56

were to look at this, how is the word trauma defined?

3:59

Trauma is such an interesting word. And

4:01

I'm so glad we're talking about this today, Janet.

4:03

Thank you. Well, think of it simply

4:06

as it's an emotional response

4:08

that all of us may have and

4:10

all of us go through things, but

4:12

it could be an accident. It could have been crime.

4:15

It could not have been a sudden loss. It

4:17

could have been a sudden illness. Somebody

4:19

in the family died. Um,

4:21

you could receive even a diagnosis

4:23

of something that was life threatening,

4:26

uh, even for for kids. Maybe there's

4:28

constant bully behavior

4:30

or, uh, emotional abuse.

4:32

It could be, uh, being

4:34

a victim of sexual abuse. So

4:37

it comes in many different forms.

4:39

Uh, right now, this

4:41

is the number one issue.

4:43

Now when people call for help, it

4:45

used to be I need help for my depression

4:48

or my anxiety. Now, what we're

4:50

hearing is and it's all

4:52

pretty much post-pandemic, all

4:54

we're hearing is I have been

4:56

so traumatized. I'm overwhelmed,

4:59

I need help.

5:00

Wow. Wow. So it's a

5:02

pandemic. So I'm so thankful that again, we're talking

5:04

about this, but I'm so thankful that you're not just

5:06

identifying it. You always

5:08

leave us with hope. And I'm so very thankful for

5:10

that. So a lot of when we look

5:13

at the issue of trauma, and for

5:15

some people it's like, well, I look at

5:17

my trauma compared to theirs, and I don't think it's

5:19

important enough, so I'm just going to keep it to myself. Or

5:21

another reaction might be, I don't want

5:23

to have to deal with it, because in order to get over

5:26

the trauma, I have to go through the trauma again.

5:28

And I'm not interested in doing that. So

5:30

talk to me about some of the reasons why.

5:32

For a lot of people that working through

5:35

to discover who our true self is and

5:37

to get past the trauma is paramount. But

5:39

for some people it's like not worth the risk. I'm not taking

5:41

the journey.

5:43

You know it really, and

5:45

it can be quite scary. I talked to a

5:47

gal recently. She said, look, I

5:49

can't, I can't touch what happened to me.

5:51

It would be so overwhelming. I'm

5:54

afraid I will go crazy and lose my mind.

5:56

So that's that's the fear. So we

5:58

need to remember trauma lies to

6:01

us. It lies about who God

6:03

created us to be. Trauma says

6:05

you're ruined forever. Trauma

6:07

says you can never have joy or be

6:09

happy. So remember,

6:11

the lie of trauma

6:14

can send you down a path. And. And

6:16

maybe you feel like, man, I've not coped

6:18

well. I've turned to alcohol, or

6:20

I've had terrible

6:22

relationships, and I've continued

6:25

a pattern of trauma that

6:27

oftentimes happens. And

6:29

sometimes we also suffer in silence.

6:32

We we isolate and

6:34

we just don't realize there

6:37

really, really is.

6:39

And I'm going to say a God plan

6:41

for healing and for your future.

6:44

Yes. Amen to that. He

6:46

knows. I mean, if he's acquainted with all of our sorrows,

6:48

he understands that in the fallen human condition,

6:50

trauma is very much a part of this. By

6:52

the way, that's a point you make early on in the book. Whether

6:54

it's large or small, just about

6:56

every single one of us have experienced trauma.

6:59

Can you flesh it out a little bit? Because I know there

7:01

are people listening, going, uh, never happened to

7:03

me.

7:04

Uh, yeah. Well, you might even

7:06

say, because we're pretty good at denial.

7:08

Oh, you know what? No. That abuse happened.

7:10

I was just ten years old, and

7:12

today I'm 40 and

7:15

it's over with. It didn't really matter.

7:17

But you've had a whole history

7:19

of struggling with anxiety

7:21

and depression and intimacy and

7:24

maintaining healthy relationships.

7:26

So sometimes, sometimes we don't

7:28

really connect. The dots very well because we

7:30

go, you know what, that's in the past.

7:32

And then we really do. We start to compare to others.

7:34

You know what happened to me? Okay. Yeah,

7:37

it was bad. But look

7:39

what has happened to so many others.

7:41

And you start to compare yourself and

7:43

really diminish your,

7:45

your own trauma.

7:47

Yeah.

7:47

I think you're absolutely right on that. The

7:50

other problem too, particularly for the believers.

7:52

And this is why I just love having conversations

7:54

with you. You know, your stuff, but you

7:56

also understand that God is in the center of our conversation.

7:59

And honestly, without him, it's an incomplete conversation.

8:01

So from the church, if somebody has had trauma,

8:04

you know that there are voices in their head that

8:06

tell them and oftentimes affirmed by people

8:08

well meaning, though they may be, but affirmed by the people

8:10

around them that say, you know what, you just have

8:12

to trust the Lord. Press on, get through this.

8:14

You know, life is real. Life is earnest. Since we

8:16

walked out of Eden, life's got all kinds of challenges

8:19

and traumas. Just one of them. So let's just

8:21

suck it up, buttercup, and let's push

8:23

forward. I wish it were that easy,

8:26

but I don't think it's that easy.

8:28

Yeah, I think that can be really well-meaning.

8:31

And also, if you live

8:33

with somebody who's had a lot of trauma, you

8:35

may find yourself frustrated.

8:37

You go, I've tried to do everything to help them,

8:40

and it's still going on. And,

8:42

you know, some people go, you know, we've been praying

8:45

for them for years and it's still happening.

8:47

So here's the thing. We

8:50

cannot, first of all, give up. But

8:52

I think getting the right kind of help.

8:55

And, you know, I'm going to say it.

8:57

Um, God is the

8:59

healer. Our relationship with Christ

9:02

has to be foundational. But there's

9:04

also things that we can learn,

9:06

and through others, we can become courageous

9:09

to really deal with things that we need

9:11

to.

9:11

Exactly. And you're one of those people we learn from

9:14

Doctor Janz. That's why I so appreciate talking

9:16

to you. So his newest book and he's written

9:18

over 40, very prolific, is called

9:20

Triumph Over Trauma Find

9:23

healing and Wholeness from Past pain.

9:25

And again, I we just ran

9:27

through it real quickly. But I'm pretty sure just

9:29

about everybody within the sound of my

9:32

voice, including this voice, have

9:34

experienced trauma in their life. So how do we find that

9:36

triumph? We're just getting started. We're going to

9:38

walk your way right to that conclusion right after

9:40

this. Legalism,

9:56

overemphasis on prosperity, a warped understanding

9:58

of grace. These are just some of the harmful messages

10:01

rampant in the church today. And that's why I've

10:03

chosen misled as this month's truth tool, learn

10:05

to identify false teachings while finding joy

10:07

in the gospel with all its power and simplicity.

10:10

As for your copy of misled, when you give

10:12

a gift of any amount in the market, call

10:14

877. Janet 58. That's 877

10:17

Janet 58 or go to in the market

10:19

with Janet parshall.org. We're

10:23

visiting with Doctor Gregory Jantz who's the founder

10:26

of the center, A place of Hope in

10:28

Edmonds, Washington. I'd like to underscore again

10:30

that it has been voted a top ten

10:32

facility for depression treatment in the United

10:34

States. And also, this is the man

10:36

that we can credit with starting the whole

10:38

person care in the 1980s. You know,

10:41

very often the approach in health care

10:43

has been to treat a system well, understanding

10:45

that we're fearfully and wonderfully made. And there is an

10:47

intersection between our body,

10:49

our mind and our spirit. That's

10:51

really how holistic approaches are

10:53

becoming very effective. And that

10:55

same approach is manifested in his most

10:58

recent book. It's called Triumph Over Trauma

11:00

Find Healing and Wholeness from Past Pain.

11:02

Early on in the book, you do us all a favor

11:04

by listing some of the top ten

11:06

truths about trauma, which I greatly appreciated

11:08

because I think that's a kind of self-awareness

11:11

thing. If you think you don't have trauma, or you think you've

11:13

got this all taken care of, you point

11:15

out some very important things about

11:17

trauma and its pathology, if I can put it that

11:19

way. One of them, again, I think for Christians

11:21

in particular, this is important, is that

11:23

if trauma has been in your life, why

11:26

is it? Doctor Janet said, very often we turn

11:28

around and think it's something we've done. In other

11:30

words, it's a failure. If I

11:32

only then this wouldn't have happened. So

11:34

we categorize it as somehow

11:36

a failure. But that isn't

11:38

the case. Again, it's the reality

11:40

of being East of Eden. Talk to me about that.

11:42

Yes, Janet. And we do that.

11:44

We tend to go, okay, if I would

11:46

have only done this or that,

11:49

it would have never happened. If

11:51

I only would have been a better

11:53

son or daughter, this wouldn't have happened.

11:56

And and so we tend

11:58

to internalize it, carry

12:00

that burden. We don't really tend to tell

12:02

people what happened to us. We're we

12:04

have our shame ashamed. We have embarrassment.

12:07

But what happens is we go,

12:09

okay, well, I

12:11

must have deserved this. And,

12:14

um, we take on

12:16

self responsibility for

12:18

what was done to us. And we also have

12:20

another word to describe that sometimes

12:23

the word trauma bond

12:25

is used where it's almost

12:27

as though you've bonded with that abuser.

12:30

And it sounds

12:33

odd, I know, but you

12:35

now are connected to them

12:37

and you feel sometimes

12:40

a dependency over

12:42

them or with them, or they

12:44

still have. They have power and control in

12:46

your life, but there's been this unhealthy

12:50

alliance or bond.

12:52

Yeah. And so that's important

12:54

for us not to think that somehow we've

12:56

been the cause of the trauma,

12:58

but to be cognizant to not further

13:01

the trauma. And that takes me to another observation

13:03

you made, which is a lot of people think

13:05

just let enough time go by and this will dissipate.

13:07

It'll go away. That is not the case, you

13:09

say. In fact, more to the point, you say that

13:12

if you don't resolve the trauma issue,

13:14

it's going to beget further trauma might

13:16

be a different kind of trauma, but it just

13:18

exacerbates the trauma you're already dealing with.

13:20

Well, what we might do is then just keep

13:22

repeating patterns

13:25

that are really represent

13:27

trauma. I could go into

13:29

have a whole series of unhealthy relationships

13:31

and allow myself to be mistreated,

13:33

because I believe that's what I deserve.

13:36

I may secretly turn to

13:38

an addiction in order. I

13:40

call it mood modulate. I want to change how

13:42

I'm feeling here. And so I might

13:44

misuse prescription drugs. I might

13:47

secretly turn to alcohol. But

13:49

in some way I'm trying to change

13:51

how I feel, and I'm trying

13:53

to kind of carry the whole burden

13:55

myself. Yeah. And so

13:57

trauma, really unresolved trauma,

14:00

you tend to not only relive

14:02

it, but you tend to create more of it.

14:05

Not necessarily intentionally, but you get

14:07

into these patterns.

14:08

So talk, if you would please,

14:10

to the person who might has

14:12

been traumatized but has done such an effective

14:15

job in repressing it and bearing

14:17

it down 14 layers and

14:19

thinking it's in the past and they don't even remember

14:21

it anymore. So they don't understand that some of the behavior

14:24

choices they are making today are

14:26

directly attributable to the untreated and

14:28

unrecognized trauma from the past.

14:31

Yes. And we kind of put it in a little

14:33

trauma box in our in our brain. We

14:35

know it's there. We try to

14:37

keep it under wraps. We try

14:39

to ignore it. We try to push

14:41

it away. Um, but then

14:44

some things happen. Maybe you see

14:46

somebody that reminds you

14:48

or sounds like or looks like a

14:50

person that abused you, and all of a sudden

14:52

you're retriggered and these. Memories

14:55

come up and you nearly have

14:57

a panic attack and you go, what happened?

14:59

Because certain present

15:02

events can kind of go back and

15:04

bring that old trauma back

15:06

up. That's why I say we tend to recycle

15:09

it. And I think we don't realize

15:11

how much it makes us sick. You know,

15:13

trauma in the body.

15:16

Um, you know, in other words, how it affects our

15:18

immune system, our digestion.

15:21

It just makes us it makes

15:23

us sick. And

15:25

I'm talking physically. You may have aches and

15:27

pains, constant headaches, because

15:30

you're holding and carrying things

15:32

that really you weren't designed

15:34

to.

15:34

Yeah.

15:35

Exactly. Right. So what

15:37

might be some things we should look for in

15:39

our life if we think that we're

15:41

repressing the trauma, we're not dealing with

15:43

it. Or maybe I could ask it another way, or

15:46

maybe it's in tandem to the first question, which is

15:48

the interplay between trauma and our emotions.

15:50

How does that work out?

15:52

Yeah, well, trauma

15:54

will distort our emotions. If I've

15:56

been traumatized, I may have trouble with trust.

15:59

I could be super. I call it

16:01

hyper vigilant. I

16:03

don't trust anybody. I'm always on edge. My

16:05

adrenal glands are pumping adrenaline

16:07

and then cortisol, and I just wear

16:09

myself out because I'm always on edge.

16:12

And then I don't trust anybody.

16:14

Uh, I think somebody looked at me wrong,

16:17

and I get. I take on

16:19

an offense so I can

16:21

easily, easily become

16:23

embittered and full of resentment.

16:26

And I'm just carrying that poison

16:28

around. So remember, trauma

16:30

lies to us. Trauma can

16:32

distort present reality.

16:35

And we really, really are

16:37

pretty fragile. And we're

16:39

just trying to keep it together. But

16:41

you know what? That gets harder and

16:43

harder to do.

16:45

Yeah, it sure does. So

16:47

and what I'm hearing you say, and I hope our friends are hearing

16:49

it loud and clear, is you. You don't want to push

16:52

this aside. So if you're listening

16:54

to this conversation and you're thinking, you know, maybe,

16:56

maybe that's why I do this and maybe it's time

16:58

for me to deal with it. I know it's there, but I haven't

17:01

ever dealt with it before. Maybe it's time for me

17:03

to do that. So you talk about emotions

17:05

can be an obstacle, but

17:07

you also point out the fact that there is

17:09

some good news to be found in the midst of all

17:11

of this when it comes to our emotions. So if

17:14

I may, Doctor Janice, let me come to that point when we

17:16

return, if we can talk about trauma

17:18

and depression. And what I love in this

17:20

book is at the end of every chapter,

17:23

you give us some personal healing steps. You

17:25

literally give us some very pragmatic things

17:27

to do at the end of every chapter

17:29

that can help us work through this trauma

17:32

and get to that place of triumph. Which

17:34

is why your book is called Triumph Over Trauma

17:36

Find Healing and Wholeness from Past

17:38

Pain. Doctor Gregory Jantz is our guest, and

17:40

we're going to continue right after this. Triumph

18:06

Over Trauma that's the newest book by Doctor Gregory

18:09

Jantz, subtitled Find Healing and Wholeness

18:11

from Past Pain. Doctor Jantz, again

18:13

a prolific author, but he's also the founder of The center

18:16

A place of Hope in Edmonds, Washington.

18:18

And he pioneered the whole person care

18:21

in the 1980s. And he's

18:23

known around the world for his expertise on depression

18:25

and anxiety, eating disorders, technology,

18:27

addiction, abuse, the list goes on. So

18:30

we're very, very fortunate to have this time with

18:32

Doctor Jantz as he walks us through this idea of

18:34

trauma, which is oftentimes

18:36

unrecognized. And may I be so bold under-discussed

18:39

topic in the church. So I praise God when

18:41

he raises up leaders like Doctor Jantz to help

18:43

us really identify. I was

18:45

taught I was actually lauding the fact that at

18:47

the end of every chapter, you really got these healing steps,

18:49

which I think is very pragmatic. That's not

18:52

it's not an either or. You find a

18:54

wonderful, good certified Christian

18:56

counselor and walk through this with somebody.

18:58

But there are things that you can start doing in

19:00

terms of self-care as well.

19:02

Just one more quick touch, if you can, on

19:04

the relationship between trauma, depression

19:07

and there are some good news. You say,

19:09

in the midst of all of this, what is it?

19:11

Well, and the good news really is

19:14

we still are a child of God, whether you

19:16

feel like it or not. And I'm reminded

19:19

of the verse in Ephesians 320,

19:21

he's able to do immeasurably more

19:23

than we could ever imagine. And that means

19:25

for the person who suffered.

19:27

Okay, so we tend to give

19:29

up too soon. Here's

19:32

we did a survey a while back and people kept

19:34

saying, you know, I wish I would

19:36

have done something about this much sooner.

19:38

Many waited at that time, an average

19:40

of seven years before getting the

19:42

kind of help they really needed. So I'm just

19:44

going to say, first of all, don't don't

19:47

prolong suffering. Sometimes

19:49

people are so surprised how there

19:51

really are options. And

19:53

you used a key word, Janet, when you

19:55

said there has to be the right

19:58

Christian help. And I'm just going

20:00

to say it, there are people

20:02

in the field of psychology and,

20:05

and some who may call themselves Christian counselors

20:07

that I would say, no, that wouldn't be

20:09

the right kind of help. So

20:12

we got to really be wise

20:14

and pray for wisdom to

20:17

get into the hands, the skilled,

20:19

hopefully the skilled, godly hands

20:21

of a person with wisdom that can

20:23

really be not only an anchor point,

20:25

but begin to teach us how.

20:28

How do I get through this?

20:30

And you'll realize that you can.

20:33

Can it seem at times so

20:35

overwhelming? Yes.

20:37

But remember, hope comes

20:40

when there's a plan. So let's start to get

20:42

together a plan. That's where we start to feel

20:44

hope.

20:45

Amen and amen. You talk

20:47

about the physical effects of trauma. I say this only

20:49

because as people are listening, do personal inventory

20:51

is this you fatigue, being easily

20:53

startled. Insomnia. Back or neck pain.

20:56

Gastrointestinal problems. Impaired memory.

20:58

Hypertension. Migraine headaches, liver

21:00

disease, chronic lung diseases, autoimmune

21:02

diseases? The list goes on and on and on.

21:04

And after you talk about the physiological impact

21:06

of trauma, you talk about the brain and how

21:08

trauma literally, I thought this was fascinating,

21:11

disrupts the brain. How so?

21:13

Yes.

21:14

Well, there's a number of things that trauma

21:16

can do to the brain. The younger you were,

21:19

sometimes the more change

21:21

we see in the brain. But it will

21:23

on a very simple level.

21:25

It changes blood flow. So

21:28

when you're full of anxiety today,

21:30

you kind of you get kind of retriggered on

21:33

something. Well, you that primitive

21:35

part of our brain, which is kind of behind our neck.

21:37

It's got a funny name. It's called amygdala.

21:40

That is our fight or flight.

21:42

So you either freeze or you

21:44

run when you feel, um, a

21:46

sense of a threat. But so

21:48

it rearranges blood flow. And

21:51

God designed us. Right in the front

21:53

of our forehead is our prefrontal

21:56

cortex. It's where we

21:58

make it's supposed to be

22:00

our best and wise decisions.

22:03

Now, you want to pray, but

22:05

that's that's that executive function of

22:07

the brain. And we need good blood flow

22:09

there. So and as

22:11

the brain develops, if

22:14

I was traumatized, it

22:16

kind of has a way of re,

22:19

uh, kind of moving those brain

22:21

circuits. And so sometimes

22:23

you feel like, man, I don't I'm not functioning well.

22:25

Well, there's a reason for

22:28

it. Uh, physiologically,

22:30

here's the wonderful

22:32

miracle of how God designed us

22:35

as a person begins

22:37

to really heal and work on

22:39

things. And, and we start,

22:42

uh, really that journey.

22:44

And I've seen their brain scans,

22:47

um, from where you started to

22:49

where you're going to end up, you can actually

22:51

see changes in your brain.

22:53

Hmm. So.

22:54

Well, we're more resilient than

22:56

what we ever imagined.

22:58

Exactly. And you lead me to a question

23:00

which is, let me talk about neuroplasticity for a

23:02

minute. So you write in the book. And

23:04

I thought this was fascinating, that the traumatized

23:06

brain really has a hard time distinguishing

23:09

between the past and the present. That's because

23:11

with trauma come these neural pathways. So

23:13

if there is, the more I study

23:15

the brain, the more I realize you cannot argue the

23:18

existence of God. The brain is just so unbelievably

23:20

complex.

23:21

It's just amazing.

23:22

So if you can have these negative pathways,

23:24

I understand that you can actually begin to put some

23:26

positive pathways, which

23:28

goes right back to the mental health manual

23:30

known as the Word of God that says, take every

23:32

thought captive, set your mind on things above

23:35

all of those other things that the Bible tells

23:37

us to do that have to do with our thought

23:39

life. So when you talk about,

23:42

um, getting through the trauma, some

23:44

of the things we can do is to help rewire

23:46

to some of those positive neural pathways.

23:48

Like you say, take a nature

23:51

walk for an hour. I mean, that seems so simple to so

23:53

many people, but why is that important?

23:55

Yeah. Getting outside

23:57

and breathing some air, kind of getting

24:00

in touch with, uh, don't walk on

24:02

a busy street, but go out and

24:04

you'll notice. You'll notice that you

24:06

will suddenly begin to,

24:08

you know, start to think a little differently. And then

24:10

you can add to that, to that

24:12

little walk, um, take

24:15

an old fashioned three by five card.

24:17

Remember those three by five cards we used to

24:19

ride our school notes on? Write. Write

24:22

a verse on there, carry it with you and

24:24

say it out loud.

24:25

Wow. Excellent. I'm going to

24:27

take a break. We're going to come back with Doctor Gregory Jantz,

24:30

a brand new book from a man who writes an

24:32

awful lot. This one is called Triumph Over

24:34

Trauma. Find healing and Wholeness

24:36

from Past Pain again, I've got

24:38

a link to his website because there's so much you can learn.

24:41

A place of hope.com so you can

24:43

learn more about this marvelous center

24:45

in Edmonds, Washington. But also on the right

24:47

hand side of the info page there is the book.

24:49

Just remember, every single one of us at some level

24:52

has dealt or is dealing with trauma. This

24:54

will get us to the triumph part back after this.

25:06

When we tackle tough issues on in the market, do

25:08

you find yourself nodding in agreement? Then why not

25:10

take the next step today and become a partial partner?

25:12

Your monthly gift will help to keep us on

25:14

the air, and you'll receive exclusive behind the scenes

25:17

resources directly from me, like a transcript

25:19

of my weekly commentary and exclusive weekly

25:21

audio briefing, and more. Become one of our partial

25:24

partners today by calling 877

25:26

Janet, 58, or go online to in the

25:28

market with Janet parshall.org.

25:33

We're visiting with Doctor Gregory Jantz, who's

25:35

a popular speaker and award winning author

25:37

of over 40 books, including

25:39

Healing the Scars of Emotional Abuse

25:41

and So Much to Live For. He is the

25:43

founder of The Center A place of Hope.

25:46

It's located in Edmonds, Washington. Voted

25:48

a top ten facility for depression treatment

25:50

in the United States, and his

25:52

latest book is called Triumph Over

25:54

Trauma Find Healing and Wholeness

25:56

from Past Pain. And this is a wonderful

25:58

book because he really does break it down into three

26:01

very important sections. He talks

26:03

out for. He starts first by really explaining,

26:05

if you will, the nature of trauma. He

26:07

goes to the second part, which is the loss of

26:09

your true self. And we were just talking about the

26:12

emotional pain, what happens to the brain,

26:14

the physical symptoms, what we can read

26:16

in the book also about how it takes away your

26:18

dreams, how it impacts your relationships. But

26:20

I really want to get to the third part of the book, because

26:22

the third part of the book is about recovery, the way

26:24

back to what he calls your true self,

26:27

and you start out again. This is why this

26:29

conversation is always important, but especially

26:31

for the believer, because, you know, it's one

26:33

thing to have head knowledge, a whole nother thing to have

26:35

heart knowledge. And that is this idea

26:37

of forgiveness, particularly

26:39

when you've been traumatized. If there's any

26:42

place where shoe leather gets put into the concept

26:44

biblically of forgiveness, it's when you

26:46

have been on the receiving end of trauma.

26:49

Now break this down. For me,

26:51

biblically, in terms of good,

26:53

solid mental health, does forgiving

26:56

mean I forget

26:58

what you did? Does forgiving mean something

27:00

to myself as opposed to the perpetrator?

27:03

We're very confused in the church, I think,

27:05

and exactly what forgiveness means, particularly

27:07

when trauma and abuse have taken place.

27:09

Yes. And and I know when I use the

27:11

word forgiving and you go, no, wait, wait, wait, wait. You don't

27:13

understand what was done to me, right?

27:15

Um, and I really do get

27:18

that. And there's a level of forgiveness

27:20

that this is where we need God's help.

27:22

There's a level of forgiveness that really,

27:25

I do believe that the Lord enables

27:28

that to happen, really intercedes for

27:30

us where we feel a true

27:32

freedom. Now, here's the thing. We

27:34

don't ever forget what happened to us, and

27:36

we can still at times have an emotion

27:39

and an emotional reaction to it. But it

27:41

doesn't carry us away. It

27:44

doesn't take us to despair. We don't

27:46

go to despondency. Um,

27:48

and God, because I see

27:50

this in people's lives and and this is my

27:52

this is our 40th year. I'm probably more

27:55

passionate now than ever before

27:57

because I see lives change

27:59

for good with God. So I know

28:02

that this forgiveness is

28:04

one of the key ingredients. And I

28:06

don't mean to make it sound simple or easy,

28:08

because sometimes it's even the forgiveness

28:10

of ourselves. We're unhappy

28:12

with what we did and all

28:15

the different, uh, self-destructive

28:17

things we ended up doing and and

28:19

punishing ourselves. And

28:22

also remember the lie

28:24

that says you're, uh, you're defective.

28:27

You're ruined. Uh, you

28:29

can never be restored. And so we

28:31

kind of live that lie. Something

28:33

happens when you start

28:36

to see the forgiveness process

28:38

start you, you you begin

28:40

to feel like, oh,

28:43

maybe there is hope for me. And and maybe, maybe

28:46

God does love me because you

28:48

wrestle with so many questions like, why did God

28:50

allow this to happen? And we and we and then

28:52

we start to blame God, and we blame other people

28:55

and we kind of get off course.

28:58

Um, and I can tell you, there is a freedom

29:00

that comes, uh, as we

29:02

work, both self-forgiveness, forgiveness

29:05

of maybe the situation, maybe it

29:07

was a, a tragic accident

29:09

that took a loved one. Maybe it was

29:11

a terrible medical diagnosis.

29:14

And you, you've been so traumatized

29:16

by that. And maybe

29:18

you feel like there's unanswered prayer.

29:20

So there's a lot that

29:23

can really fit into this. I just want to

29:25

say it's super

29:27

important. It can be done.

29:29

And and I don't mean

29:31

to just say, oh, I forgive and know

29:34

it's going to be a deeper walk with

29:36

that, but you're going to see God intervene

29:39

for you. Yeah.

29:40

Amen.

29:40

Now, paradoxically, I went from

29:43

the theological and I'm going to come back to the physiological,

29:45

because I love the fact that you

29:47

talk about research done by both Mayo and Johns

29:49

Hopkins, which I thought was interesting. You

29:51

say that Johns Hopkins researchers said, and I'm

29:54

quoting you in the book, and this is Hopkins

29:56

students have found that the Act studies

29:58

have found that the act of forgiveness can reap huge

30:01

rewards for your health, lowering the risk of heart

30:03

attack, improving cholesterol levels. And. Sleep,

30:05

reducing pain, blood pressure, levels

30:07

of anxiety, depression and stress, and

30:09

research points to an increase in the forgiveness

30:12

health connection as you

30:14

age. Wow and triple wow. So

30:16

the physiological manifestations of

30:18

this are fascinating. But you

30:20

also point out that Mayo says

30:22

there's a bunch of things that can happen if

30:24

you don't forgive, like it'll

30:27

it carries over. This is something you said you

30:29

alluded to earlier, that the trauma

30:32

can often bring unforgiveness, bitterness

30:34

and anger that spills over into the next

30:36

relationship. You can be so

30:38

wrapped up in the wrong that you can't enjoy the present,

30:40

so you're not having the abundant life that Christ

30:42

promised you. Not Mayo Clinic's words, but what

30:44

we know as believers, you can become

30:46

depressed or anxious. This goes back to what you said

30:49

before about the intersection with our emotions.

30:51

You can feel that your life lacks meaning or purpose,

30:53

that you're at odds with your spiritual beliefs. This

30:55

is Mayo talking. This is not Dallas Theological

30:58

Seminary and last lose

31:00

valuable and enriching connectedness with others.

31:02

I just love it. I tell you, doctor

31:04

Janice, I love it when science affirms what

31:07

the scriptures already told us. So people who

31:09

think that science and the Bible are at

31:11

war, nothing could be farther from the truth.

31:13

The Bible affirms what science shows

31:15

us as well. So there's a physiological

31:17

manifestation for this. But there are people

31:19

listening who might be screaming at their radio right now.

31:22

I get it, and I certainly understand,

31:24

but you don't know dot dot dot

31:26

fill in the years of sexual abuse

31:28

by, you know, a stepparent

31:31

or a sibling and that never

31:33

it's ruined the family dynamic. It's ruined

31:35

your relationship with your spouse. You've gone through multiple

31:37

marriages because there's been unresolved trauma. The list

31:39

goes on and on and on. And you think that

31:41

if I forgive, it's going to make everything nice

31:43

and pretty again. Talk to that person.

31:45

Yes. I don't know that it's going

31:47

to be nice and pretty, but it's going to

31:49

feel like freedom. And you're going to go,

31:52

oh, and it's not.

31:54

See, it won't be your point of focus, the

31:56

trauma, the abusers

31:58

or the abuser. It's not going to be your point of focus

32:01

anymore, and you're going to be able to

32:03

look at other things and decide,

32:05

because God will use trauma, God will

32:07

use pain for

32:09

good. And you will find that your your

32:11

compassion for others.

32:13

There's something that's happened to you that

32:15

you want to see others healed, and

32:18

it'll take you a whole different direction.

32:20

It. When we really work this

32:22

through, we're no longer a focused

32:24

on the past. We start,

32:26

we start to feel some optimism

32:28

for our future. Okay? And

32:30

I don't mean that suddenly and you

32:32

just see a rosy future, but you start to

32:34

see, oh, wait, there is hope

32:37

for me. And you will begin to see

32:39

things come together. At. One

32:41

of the wonderful things that we see happen

32:43

is gratitude and gratefulness

32:46

start to reenter into your life.

32:48

I'm grateful that I'm alive.

32:51

I'm grateful for that. I do have a new

32:53

day, you know, it starts that

32:55

way and gratitude

32:58

will help produce more optimism.

33:00

And so I encourage everybody, even

33:02

in the middle of the trauma. Please

33:04

consider starting a gratitude

33:06

journal. As silly as that sounds. Write down

33:08

three things every day that you're

33:11

thankful for. I just want you to begin

33:13

to change your point of focus,

33:15

even in the midst

33:17

of that turmoil.

33:18

Oh, that's such good counsel. And doesn't

33:20

it go back to what we were saying earlier, which is

33:23

when you're doing and creating and building

33:25

an attitude of gratitude, aren't you? Not don't

33:27

tell anybody. We're talking brain science here. But aren't you building

33:30

new neural pathways when you have that attitude

33:32

of gratitude?

33:33

Yes.

33:34

And over time, gratitude does

33:36

change things in our brain. We begin

33:38

to see the world differently. I know

33:41

firsthand my wife went through

33:43

a kind of a long cancer

33:45

diagnosis and treatment, and she

33:47

taught me in the middle of her chemo,

33:50

uh, years ago, she started

33:52

a gratitude journal, a practice now

33:54

that she's maintained. And she said

33:56

to me, she said, you know what?

33:59

Because I told her, I can't believe you're you're doing

34:01

this. You're you look,

34:04

um, you look terrible. You don't have any

34:06

hair. You're frail, you're low

34:09

weight, and you're sitting in the chair writing

34:11

a gratitude journal. I don't get it.

34:13

Yeah. Wow.

34:14

But what happened was, she

34:17

said, well, I think

34:19

it was one of the things that God used

34:21

to keep me alive. And I

34:23

began to see my life differently.

34:25

Yeah, yeah.

34:26

Wow. Oh, I tell you what. There's

34:29

so much that you can take away from today's conversation.

34:31

If you don't remember anything else, can you remember that?

34:33

I think it's so important. It's why I think we

34:35

read in Scripture. And boy, this has

34:37

been impactful in my life personally in

34:40

these latter years, which is be anxious

34:42

for nothing, but with prayer and supplication

34:44

and the word, we almost always forget when

34:46

we say this verse and thanksgiving,

34:49

let your request be made known to God. Isn't

34:51

it fascinating that anxiety and gratitude

34:53

are in that same verse?

34:56

Yes. So maybe that's some good instruction.

34:59

And maybe you say, I don't have any gratitude.

35:01

Oh, no. Start get get

35:03

a little journal. Just start

35:06

today. Write down three things. Tomorrow, write down

35:08

another three. Just I just want you to start to

35:11

practice a little differently.

35:12

Yeah, yeah.

35:13

And the things we've taken for granted. I'm

35:15

sure that your wife experienced this in the midst

35:17

of her journey. That things that we took

35:19

for granted, that I'd have a warm bed

35:21

to sleep in, that there'd be a roof over my head,

35:23

that when my feet went on the floor, I'd

35:25

have breakfast waiting for me. I mean, those

35:27

things that. Yeah, it's always there. So we get

35:30

complacent in our attitude of gratitude,

35:32

but you start identifying all

35:34

those things that we aren't necessarily

35:36

promised but are always provided. So I think

35:39

that's so important in the personal steps

35:41

on this. You talk about why

35:43

in the in relationship to forgiveness,

35:45

why it's imperative that we practice empathy. I

35:47

love this because. We

35:49

know that there are some people who are more empathetic than

35:51

others. Uh, we know that they're sociopaths

35:54

and psychopaths who don't know a thing about empathy.

35:57

Right. But tell me about the linkage between

35:59

empathy and forgiveness. I think this

36:01

is fascinating.

36:02

As I am able to begin

36:05

really, truly, I'll call it a journey.

36:07

It's to forgive. Doesn't take a lifetime,

36:09

but you got to start the process. You

36:12

will begin to have a sense of empathy

36:14

and a deeper care for others.

36:16

It just comes out well.

36:18

The book. There's so much, by the way, that

36:20

if you think I've gotten to everything that's

36:22

in this book, no, I'm

36:24

just kind of teasing out some of the important stuff

36:27

so that if you're dealing with trauma right now,

36:29

you can stop looking behind and you

36:31

can move forward into a world out of trauma

36:33

and into triumph. That's really what the book is all about.

36:36

So you can find healing and wholeness from

36:38

past pain. The book is called Triumph

36:40

Over Trauma, written by our guest,

36:42

Doctor Gregory Jantz, back after this.

37:05

Triumph over trauma, find healing

37:07

and wholeness from past pain. It's the brand new book

37:09

by Doctor Gregory Jantz, who's written

37:11

over 40 books, by the way, and is the founder of

37:13

the Center of Place of Hope, located

37:16

in Edmonds, Washington. He's also the man who pioneered

37:18

the whole person care back in the 1980s.

37:21

And so I'm moving through its

37:23

much longer than time affords me, friend.

37:25

So I just want you to understand that I'm picking out some

37:27

key points so that you can realize

37:29

that this is the book that you've been looking for,

37:31

the Word of God in one hand, this book in the other, and really

37:33

and truly move through the trauma

37:36

that you're experiencing, the trauma that's in

37:38

your past but has never gone away to a place of

37:40

real triumph. Let me underscore again

37:42

that at the end of every chapter, and this isn't

37:44

an either or, it's a both end. Find a

37:46

good, solid, bedrock Christian

37:48

counselor, because you need to have someone

37:50

walk through this. You don't ever want to do this by yourself,

37:53

by the way, but there are several personal

37:55

steps that you can take that can move you toward

37:57

healing as well. And Doctor Jantz has written

37:59

those at the back of each chapter very pragmatic,

38:01

very hands on, very, very helpful. So

38:04

you talk about revising the script for your life

38:06

that you need to update it on based on facts,

38:08

not on fiction. So here particularly,

38:10

again, the believer should understand this, the voice of the

38:12

accuser, particularly for the person who's been traumatized,

38:15

reminds them again, it's your fault, your

38:17

failure. If only if you're bad, you're

38:19

cast away. You're thrown away because of what's happened to

38:21

you. It goes on over and over and over again,

38:23

and we forget what it says in the book of Romans that

38:25

now, therefore, there is no condemnation

38:28

for those who are in Christ Jesus. So

38:30

how do we rewrite that script when it's

38:32

the voice of the of the accuser

38:34

that's on full voice? You know, we can't find

38:36

the mute button, and we're trying to turn him down as

38:38

he reminds us what a failure we are.

38:40

Yes.

38:41

And when you first start this, don't be

38:43

surprised if that volume goes up a bit.

38:46

It's like, because it's different

38:48

than it's a truth. And

38:50

it's going to take just a tad bit to let

38:52

that truth override all those lies.

38:54

You know, I mentioned the old fashioned three by five

38:56

card and writing a verse on it. How about writing down

38:59

a second Timothy one seven? For God hasn't

39:01

given us a spirit of fear.

39:04

But of power, love.

39:05

And here's the key word for what we're talking about power,

39:08

love and a sound mind. Yep. So

39:10

I want you to go. No way.

39:12

I don't have a sound mind. Well, I want you to write that

39:14

down. And maybe what you're going to do when

39:16

you go out for that, that walk I would want

39:19

you to do. I want you to pull that out of your

39:21

pocket 2 or 3 times. Start

39:23

saying God's word out loud.

39:25

Um, just practice saying that out loud.

39:28

Um, and you can put your name in there because

39:30

it applies. It applies to you. So

39:33

I want you to think about, um, you

39:35

know, renewing our minds. We're taught

39:37

how important that is. At first,

39:39

you'll feel resistance, not renewal.

39:42

There'll be resistance. You might

39:44

even feel a little rebellion. But hang

39:46

on, let's renew.

39:48

And let's restore with the truth.

39:51

And it can be done. It really can be done.

39:53

There's something that happens. Practice

39:55

that over time. Do a 30 day

39:57

experiment. Do that gratitude journal,

39:59

plus work on something as

40:01

simple as saying God's verse out

40:03

loud. You can keep the same verse.

40:05

Just say it out loud and do it every

40:07

day. Give yourself 30 days. I just

40:09

want you to start to renew your thinking.

40:12

Yeah, exactly. Doctor chance,

40:14

does it help? And again, you're not going to get

40:16

this in a secular setting. But again, for the believer

40:18

in particular for this conversation, would

40:20

it help, particularly because trauma has such

40:22

a radical way? It's why you divided the book, I think,

40:24

into losing your true self to finding your

40:27

true self. How imperative

40:29

in the healing process from trauma

40:31

is it for us to see our self through

40:33

heaven's eyes as God sees us?

40:35

Well, you'll start to discover, hey,

40:37

I do have gifts and talents.

40:39

There are some special things about

40:41

me and then you're going to hang

40:44

in there later. You're going to start to feel, I

40:46

do have a purpose. I do have a

40:48

sense of mission. And

40:51

things start to come together that

40:53

you've hoped for for a long time.

40:55

And I don't say this lightly, I

40:58

because I see it in people as they transform.

41:00

And we I want you to have some

41:03

allies, some three,

41:05

four people in your life that are going

41:07

to be be like those prayer warriors

41:10

that are going to remember you

41:12

and speak the truth with you and over

41:14

you, um, so that you're really

41:16

surrounded. We want to be surrounded with God's protection

41:19

when we get out of the

41:22

well, the the stronghold

41:24

of all the lies. It's it's

41:27

a battle for a bit. It really is a battle.

41:29

Um, especially if your trauma has been

41:31

delayed. Right. You've got these now. They're concretized.

41:34

They're not just made out of fluff. They're made out of brick.

41:36

And so they've got to be dismantled. So, as you

41:38

say it, it might be slow going when

41:40

you when you, when you don't think you have the strength

41:43

to do it. Because again, this is a

41:45

volitional choice. I am going to work

41:47

through this trauma. And you started and

41:49

you five seconds into it and you hit a brick wall. That's

41:52

going to be a deterrent for some people to say, I'm not

41:54

going to go any further. Encourage

41:56

us. What happens when you get that resistance

41:58

right out of the gate? How do you push through?

42:00

Okay, I want you to know your. You

42:03

will get that, and you might

42:05

have a good day.

42:07

And then the next day doesn't feel so good.

42:09

You know, the battle, so to speak,

42:11

is on, but you're going to be determined

42:14

and you are going to show up every

42:16

day and you're

42:18

not alone. So I just want you to remember that

42:20

you're not alone. Those prayers

42:22

you've prayed. Um. God

42:25

hears them. Hang on, hang

42:27

on. Um. I just see

42:29

people give up too soon. And

42:32

now sometimes you're going to go.

42:35

Okay, this is so overwhelming. I

42:37

need more, more help. Okay,

42:40

then let's figure that piece out.

42:42

Do I need to, um, go

42:44

somewhere? Do I have a team working with me

42:47

to help me through this? Um.

42:49

Or is it something I can work

42:52

through just with a single person? But there's

42:54

sometimes reaches a point where

42:56

you go, man, I think I need a little bit

42:58

more, uh, a little more help.

43:00

So just be open to that.

43:02

Yeah.

43:03

Wow.

43:04

Oh, so many questions. Let me just throw this out.

43:07

Lest you think that Doctor Jansen is just offering

43:09

some sort of pablum, he's not.

43:12

Especially this idea of moving to triumph

43:14

because you talk about, uh, two

43:16

psychologists in their research discovered

43:18

something called PTG pursuing

43:21

post-traumatic growth. So

43:23

it's it's a thing. Post-traumatic growth

43:26

is actually a thing. And

43:28

they say that it changes the way in which you act with

43:30

other people. You recognize new opportunities,

43:32

new pathways in life, greater appreciation for

43:34

your own life, recognition of one's own

43:36

strength, spiritual or

43:38

existential development. These are

43:40

secularist doctor Jantz, and they're telling

43:42

us this is what's going to happen.

43:44

So and I've got 60s

43:46

left in a conversation that could go on for hours.

43:49

Somebody's heard this conversation you've stirred

43:51

in their heart. They're thinking, okay, I have to

43:53

take it out of the closet into the sunshine.

43:55

I'm really going to have to deal with it. What's their first

43:57

step?

43:58

First step is to take a first step today.

44:01

Reach out. Get. If

44:04

it's some reading, find out what

44:06

your options are. Make a phone call.

44:08

Take the first step.

44:10

Don't let it slide. And remember,

44:13

hope comes when there's a plan. Let's start to

44:15

put together a plan.

44:16

Yeah, and hope never fails. As the scriptures

44:19

tell us, Doctor chance, thank you. That hour went

44:21

by far too fast. And I

44:23

want to tell my friends again if this is spoken

44:25

to your heart, if this conversation met

44:27

you where you were at today, there's

44:29

oh, so much more in the book. So check it out. It's

44:31

on my information page in the market

44:34

with Janet parshall.org.

44:36

After you read the summation of the two hours

44:38

that we do every day, right underneath that

44:40

summation is a box that says program

44:42

details and audio. Clicking on it'll

44:44

take you over to the information page. There's a longer

44:46

bio for Doctor Janz, a link to

44:49

the center, a place of hope. And

44:51

there's the book on the right hand side. Triumph

44:53

over trauma may triumph

44:55

be yours today. Thanks, friends. Thanks, Doctor Janse,

44:57

we'll see you next time.