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1:00

To understand the conflict in Lebanon,

1:03

you have to look at it as a region rather

1:05

than a country with firm borders. It's

1:08

a battleground between Israel, Iran,

1:10

and Syria. Irish

1:13

troops have a long history of peacekeeping in

1:15

the region, taking part in the UN's

1:17

mission, UNIFIL, to protect Lebanese

1:20

after they were invaded by Israel. An

1:23

established operation. It

1:25

is of all UN

1:28

meetings, the one that has suffered the

1:30

most losses in terms of fatalities.

1:33

Someone to Ireland as you will

1:35

know. Sadly, forty

1:37

eight Irish soldiers have died. Most

1:39

recently, twenty three year old private

1:41

Sean Rooney who was laid to rest yesterday.

1:45

He was killed and three others wounded

1:47

when their unifilled vehicle came under fire

1:49

from an angry mob.

1:52

It should have been a standard run

1:54

like this one of soldiers

1:56

traveling from their bay since southern Lebanon

1:59

up to Beirut

2:00

until tragedy struck. But

2:03

why would they be the target of gunfire

2:05

in a community they were trying to protect.

2:08

I'm Aidan Finnegan, and this is in the news

2:11

from the Irish Times. Today,

2:13

is the threat faced by Irish peacekeepers

2:16

in Lebanon growing? I'm

2:22

joined by Connor Galher, crime

2:24

and security correspondent with

2:26

the Irish times. And Dan Harvey,

2:29

who is a retired colonel with the Irish

2:31

defense forces. He's also a military

2:33

historian and author. You're both very

2:35

welcome to the podcast. Connor, can I start

2:37

with you? It's been just over

2:39

a week since private Sean Rooney

2:41

was murdered in an ambush in

2:43

Lebanon. Details were obviously

2:45

thin on the ground then. What has emerged

2:47

now from this remove? Well,

2:50

I I suppose a lot of the questions remain

2:52

unanswered. But we do

2:54

know a little bit more about what happened

2:56

and that terrible night late

2:59

on Wednesday in this small

3:01

coastal village. Just north of the

3:03

UNIFIL area of operations. Sean

3:06

Rooney and his colleagues were

3:09

in a two car convoy or two vehicle convoy

3:11

over there. Armored utility vehicles,

3:13

which are essentially cheap four by four

3:15

cheap Swiss, armor plating and waterproof

3:17

glass. And

3:18

are they labeled with the UN They're labeled

3:20

twice white vehicles with the

3:22

UN logo as you would, by

3:24

your picture in your mind exactly the same, they

3:27

were on the convoy to the main routes, to normal

3:29

routes, to bay routes, and they were dropping two guys

3:31

up the airport. These guys were going home

3:34

on a compassionate leave. They had debts

3:36

in their extended family. So

3:39

very routine But for some reason,

3:41

and this is one of the parts we don't know, private

3:43

Rooney's vehicle got separated from the other

3:46

vehicle and diverted

3:48

into this town where it seems

3:50

like it was surrounded by a

3:52

very angry mob, including people

3:54

and some vehicles. They were

3:57

one of them, it seems, opened the tailgate

3:59

of the

3:59

vehicle. During that encounter before

4:01

What does

4:01

that mean, literally, just the back of the The

4:04

the back, yeah, the hatch, at the back of

4:06

the of the Jeep, it seems. And

4:08

tensions grew heightened, private

4:11

rooms vehicle took evasive action as they

4:13

would be trained to do kind of backed

4:15

out and then sped off past the

4:17

group. And it seems and at least one

4:19

other vehicle gave chase and

4:21

two gunmen opened fire as

4:23

it was driving away. The

4:25

vehicle then crashed, more

4:27

shots were fired. It seems the fatal

4:30

shots were fired through that rear open

4:32

tailgate. About at

4:34

least twenty five shots were actually

4:36

fired at the vehicle, but the bulletproof glass

4:38

and the armor plate held up for the most part. So

4:40

it seems that the fatal rounds,

4:42

which hit private wound, he went through the

4:44

back of the vehicle. We don't know if that happened

4:47

after he crashed or immediately

4:49

before. But the

4:52

tragic end result was a private relief

4:54

was killed. His colleague

4:56

trooper Shane Carney suffered

4:58

severe head injuries. He wasn't shot.

5:00

He suffered severe head injuries in the

5:02

in the crash and two motor

5:05

Irish troops in the vehicle so

5:07

for more minor injuries, they've thankfully largely

5:10

recovered and or at least have been discharged

5:12

from hospital. So the next

5:14

question is, who is behind us?

5:19

Yes. Who would want to target peacekeeping

5:22

troops? Let's have a quick look

5:24

at what uniform is. It

5:27

stands for United Nations Interim

5:30

Force in Lebanon. Except

5:32

it's not very interim. Different

5:34

iterations have been in the country since it

5:36

was established in nineteen seventy eight.

5:39

In nineteen eighty two, Irish

5:41

soldiers were taking part in the mission

5:43

to keep the peace as Israel withdrew

5:45

after invading Lebanon.

5:47

As professional soldiers, we have a

5:49

mission to accomplish in South Lebanon

5:51

as peacekeepers. It is our

5:53

task

5:54

to see the implementation of

5:56

Resolution four twenty five. UNIFIL's

5:59

original aims are mandate was

6:01

to confirm the withdrawal of the Israeli

6:03

army. Check. Restore

6:06

international peace and security. Well,

6:08

obviously, that's a work in progress. And

6:10

assist the government of Lebanon in ensuring

6:12

the rule of law return to this area.

6:15

But Beirut never managed that.

6:17

Which is why Hezbolla and the Amal movement

6:20

hold so much sway in twenty twenty

6:22

two. Hesbola

6:25

has been ratcheting up the rhetoric against

6:27

Unifin in recent times.

6:29

Why? So there was a new mandate

6:32

earlier this year, which kind of it

6:35

kind of reaffirmed UNIFIL's freedom

6:38

of movement and freedom to move

6:40

without an escort from the

6:42

Lebanese armed forces and has

6:44

black said this was an infringement of

6:46

Lebanese sovereignty even though they've been

6:48

allowed to do this for quite a while as

6:50

I understand this. But it's also

6:52

because Tesla are getting ready for

6:54

the next war people believe and done. We'll probably

6:56

be able to talk to you about this. You know,

6:58

they're preparing the ground. They see war

7:00

with Israel as inevitable, and Israel

7:02

sees war with Hezbollah as inevitable. And

7:05

they don't want Unifil driving around and

7:07

spotting maybe where they're digging tunnels or

7:09

installed on fire and ranges or

7:11

rocket positions. They believe

7:14

that Unifil is an intelligence

7:16

gathering operation for Israel or for

7:18

America. And that belief

7:20

has filtered down into some of the locals.

7:23

So the question is, were these local who's

7:25

excited by Hasbro blood? Was there some

7:27

other reason or was Hasbro blood, you know,

7:29

were these two gold men under a direct control of Hasbro

7:31

blood? So that's one of the the questions. That

7:33

will have to be asked over the coming weeks.

7:37

Okay. So there's three investigations. There's

7:39

the Irish investigation, the Lebanese, and

7:41

then a UN inquiry. So that'll

7:43

be three. I assume they'll be cross

7:45

checked for consistency or

7:47

indeed any

7:48

inconsistencies. Is there a timeline

7:51

for those inquiries? No. No timeline.

7:53

So the Lebanese investigation has been led

7:55

by Lebanese armed forces. They

7:57

are taking the lead. They've already done the forensics

8:00

and the postmortem has been performed on Private

8:02

Rimini's remains and they've taken

8:04

forensic reports, ballistic reports. You

8:06

know, there's Some people

8:08

have raised questions over how effective the

8:10

investigation is going to be, considering

8:13

the complex relationship between Lebanese

8:15

armed forces into sales and Hezbollah. You

8:17

know, Lebanese armed forces are established

8:19

in this house, but under

8:22

some people's view would be their

8:24

dare with the permission of Hezbollah. So

8:26

their independence from has

8:28

might be questions in some sectors. Then you've

8:30

got the IRS Defense Forces investigation.

8:32

Which has been assisted by – or Trigarty, to

8:35

detectives and a ballistics expert

8:37

and a legal officer, and some ministry police

8:39

have gone over to assist that. And then you've got the

8:41

UN in investigation. So there will be a lot of

8:43

cooperation between the, obviously, the UN and the

8:45

ARRIS investigation. It remains to be seen

8:47

almost cooperation to be between the deputies

8:49

investigation. I reported

8:51

the Irish officials have

8:53

requested both a point of contact with

8:55

the Lebanese Air Forces and have

8:57

requested these forensic and ballistic

8:59

reports for their for their

9:01

purposes.

9:04

Dunn, Connor mentioned

9:07

hespolar and the amount movement.

9:10

Who were these groups?

9:11

It would be the mainly

9:14

Muslim groups,hespolar.

9:17

Otherwise known as the translation is the

9:19

party of God. A

9:21

man means hope. Oh, yeah.

9:25

In the Sheer Muslim heartland, along

9:27

Lebanon's eastern frontier with Syria,

9:29

the party of God is on

9:31

the march.

9:36

Yellow is Herbala, a

9:38

magical project inspired by

9:40

Iran's electronics. To

9:42

the western world, they are

9:45

terrorists. They are the most

9:47

potent political and military force in

9:48

Lebanon. They're highly secret But

9:51

I suppose maybe I I should just

9:53

say that I did three tours to

9:55

South Lebanon, two of them

9:57

as a military police officer. And

9:59

I have conducted investigations into

10:03

fatalities. The curious

10:05

thing about peacekeeping, it's a very

10:07

complicated role. And

10:09

it has been said of peacekeeper peacekeeping

10:11

it's not a job for soldiers,

10:13

but only soldiers can do

10:15

it. Because once the

10:17

UN Security Council grants

10:20

a mandate, it's assuming that they

10:22

have the agreement of the parties

10:24

and not only the agreement of the

10:26

parties, but the cooperation of

10:28

the parties involved. You

10:31

may find yourself as a soldier, part

10:34

of a peacekeeping use, on

10:37

the ground in the area of conflict,

10:39

and you'll find, in

10:41

fact, there's no peace to be kept. His

10:43

boomer have force recently

10:45

to maintain the presidency

10:47

in Syria. They

10:49

have become very proficient

10:53

at the military tasks and

10:55

very sophisticated. So

10:57

they understand what it

10:59

takes to fight a war. In the

11:01

regional perspective and

11:03

in the local

11:04

perspective, the mood

11:06

on the ground is

11:09

bracing itself for

11:11

war. Connor, I assume the mood on

11:13

the ground as well as influenced by the

11:15

overall context, which is

11:17

that Now I I know the word fail

11:19

state gets bandied around a

11:20

lot, but in the case of Lebanon, it seems to be

11:22

enough description. Life is

11:24

a daily struggle. Food, fuel,

11:26

and medicine are unaffordable, and

11:28

over half the country is below the poverty

11:30

line. And consistent financial

11:32

mismanagement by the ruling elite dragged the country

11:34

deeper and deeper into debt. Lebanon's

11:36

economic collapse has been ranked amongst the

11:38

world's worst since the eighteen hundreds by the World

11:40

Bank since twenty nineteen leavenese

11:42

pound has lost more than ninety percent of its

11:44

value. I mean, the

11:47

country is in the state of total collapse.

11:49

They're they're they've don't have a functioning

11:51

banking system, this woman, is robbing

11:53

a bank. But the money she's demanding

11:55

is from her own account. For

11:58

three years, Lebanese have watched

12:00

helpless, inflation is

12:02

through the roof. I mean, what's it like for

12:04

ordinary civilians there?

12:05

I was talking to a couple

12:07

of guys who recently

12:09

completed tours of Lebanon over the last

12:11

one or two years since the economic

12:13

situation has gotten really bad. And I

12:15

say, Hezbollah has managed capitalize

12:17

on this in the south by

12:20

opening up their own banks, they're more like

12:22

credit unions, opening up their

12:24

own kind of grocery shops.

12:26

And even important their own fuel from Iran,

12:29

which they've been known to give away free two

12:31

local people because fuel shortages

12:33

are one of the main problems there people

12:35

often can't get enough fuel to drive their

12:38

cars. So his blood has been able to take

12:40

advantage of that economic situation. With

12:42

huge support from Iran, not

12:44

just military support, but this kind

12:46

of food and provisions

12:48

to greatly increase their influence

12:50

even more than it

12:51

was. And

12:51

that's kind of ideologically aligned with Iran,

12:54

isn't it? Oh, very

12:54

much. So yes, I mean, they're

12:57

agents of Iran to put a charity

12:59

And

12:59

so, Hezbollah is obviously a political party

13:02

as well as, you know, having a militia

13:04

wing. Where

13:05

does the government and have the caretaker

13:08

government in Beirut come in in terms of trying

13:10

to control the situation? Or do they

13:12

want to? Or do they kind of speak at both sides of their

13:14

mouth? Because, obviously, they would be

13:16

afraid of trad from Israel too. I

13:18

do know that there is since

13:21

two thousand and six, there's been there

13:23

was an amnesty in two thousand and six, not a

13:25

million miles away from what we after the

13:27

good Friday agreement in Ireland.

13:30

And, you know, a lot of people who'd done some pretty

13:33

terrible things were released. And since then,

13:35

there's been an almost reluctance to prosecute

13:38

cases that might have a political angle

13:41

for fear of upset in the apple

13:43

cart. Unupset in this very

13:45

fragile arrangement that they have gone

13:47

on there, which is one of the

13:49

reason why some people might be

13:51

a little bit skeptical of this the

13:53

eleventies investigation at the privy release

13:55

that bearing fruit.

13:59

Coming up, could Irish

14:01

Unifil troops find themselves

14:03

going from peace keeping to

14:05

peace enforcement? Or worse.

14:19

Dan, what was South Lebanon like when you

14:22

were there? I mentioned previously I

14:24

was there three times And

14:27

between the first and the second

14:29

tour was two years. And

14:31

there were checkpoints which I

14:33

defend this with my troops, my platoon,

14:35

and there were villages which

14:37

we protect us. That

14:39

when you went back two years

14:41

later, There was

14:43

no issue with them because the

14:45

situation had evolved and moved

14:47

on.

14:47

Why did the villagers need protecting done?

14:49

Because of the Israeli

14:52

militias that were doing the bidding

14:54

of the Israelis, taking

14:56

out potential opposition to

14:58

them. Because the resistance

15:01

was growing. And

15:03

the Aman and his boa

15:06

were coming south, and they

15:08

hedged their sympathizers. So

15:10

Israel had become the occupiers,

15:13

and it's not unlike the Black

15:15

and Tans going to villages here

15:17

in Ireland. It's the

15:19

same oppressive sense that

15:21

that was ongoing. Unfortunately,

15:24

Lebanon has the benefit of having

15:26

beautiful

15:27

If UNIFIL was protecting villages

15:30

from Israeli militias who would have been seen

15:32

as the enemy, when did the focus

15:34

of Iyer then turn on

15:35

UNIFIL? And why?

15:38

Well, you're at a peacekeeping

15:40

force as a classical peacekeeping

15:42

force. You're interposed, as

15:45

we say, You're in between the

15:47

two protagonists, and

15:49

your job is to try and pound the

15:51

situation and stabilize the situation.

15:54

And by and large, Unifin, for

15:56

all its criticism and all its

15:58

faults, was largely successful in

16:00

that. And it did stabilize

16:02

many situations and did

16:04

save lives and helped

16:06

normalize the lives with normal

16:07

people. So

16:12

so what else is raising the temperature

16:15

there now? The other

16:17

destabilizing influence is, of

16:19

course, the war in Syria, and

16:21

there's been over a million Syrian

16:23

refugees have come into Lebanon.

16:26

They're in camps, but they're not

16:28

being supporters and the

16:30

Lebanese government is afraid that

16:32

they will destabilize their hold

16:34

on power. They're afraid now

16:36

that the Syrians refugees

16:38

will have an undue influence

16:41

on the balance of power in

16:43

Lebanon. So there's a loss

16:45

of competing influences at

16:47

play. But

16:55

sometimes in peacekeeping missions.

16:57

In effect, your

17:00

hostility gets so intense. It turns

17:02

into a peace enforcement mission. And

17:04

indeed, the urge have experienced even

17:07

it being ratcheted up to war

17:10

fighting. As happened in the Congo, in

17:12

the Battle of the Tunnel, and you

17:15

saw about the Battle of Jadiville,

17:17

where they had to revert to almost

17:19

conventional war fighting. And indeed, it

17:21

happened in Lebanon in nineteen eighty

17:23

one, efforts known as the Battle of the

17:26

Cherry. So

17:27

when you go in, you

17:30

you you You play the peacekeeping card, and as

17:32

I mentioned, the Irish are very good

17:34

assets, but you must be

17:36

prepared for a quick unpredictable

17:39

ratcheting up of hostilities,

17:41

and sometimes they can come out of

17:43

the blue. And this, unfortunately,

17:46

the recent incident is one

17:48

such, and it can patch

17:50

you off guard. It

17:51

sounds like the situation is only going to become more

17:54

tense and more dangerous for

17:56

Irish keeps giving troops over in

17:57

Lebanon. Connor, how how many soldiers have we

17:59

lost there? Private Rooney's death brings it

18:01

to forty eight. Which

18:04

would make it by far the most deadly

18:07

mission for Irish peacekeeping

18:09

I think the second place would be

18:11

the our first big mission in

18:14

Congo in the early 60s.

18:16

And Dan said this to me last week and I

18:18

was really started to advise forty

18:21

seven deaths over the course of twenty

18:23

three years to the extent that it was

18:25

on average once every six months. So

18:28

once every deployment on average. So

18:30

there's a whole generation now

18:33

born since two thousand and one.

18:35

Who have never heard of an Irish dying

18:38

in combat overseas. You know, we've

18:40

had a few tragic debts. Derek

18:42

Moon, he was an army ranger who died

18:44

in a car crash a mission in Mali in two

18:46

thousand and three. I believe there has been

18:48

a handful of other deaths related illness,

18:51

but deaths in Combust were

18:53

you know, until last week, a thing in

18:55

the

18:55

past. This was

18:58

the worry he is now that with

19:00

the increasing intense situation

19:02

in Lebanon. Are we facing into

19:04

a new period of

19:06

violence and danger to our troops? You know,

19:08

and and that's something Irish troops are prepared

19:10

for, you know. It's they go over

19:13

there knowing it's a a dangerous mission, but

19:15

It's also maybe reawaking some questions

19:17

that's or what are

19:19

we doing there in the first place before

19:21

we were there with but both people wanted

19:24

there or at least eleven East people wanted us there.

19:26

But if they don't want us there, Qatar

19:28

troops are very limited, number

19:31

of troops they be better served in another

19:33

mission. The government certainly wouldn't

19:35

want to be seen to be pulled on out in a wake of

19:37

this. It might show a lack of

19:38

resolve, but it has people quietly

19:40

asking those questions. Connor

19:42

Galhera and Dan Harvey. Thanks very much

19:44

for joining us. That's

19:47

it for today. This episode was produced

19:49

by Suzanne Brennan, Daclyn Conlon

19:51

and myself, Aidan Finnegan. We'll

19:54

be back in the New Year.

20:02

ACAS powers

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