0:06

And , um, yeah, I kept him in turn

0:08

Indonesia , uh, to

0:10

find a greener pasture. This

0:13

is a story about someone who

0:15

left this country for a better life, but

0:18

this is neither a story of a

0:20

refugee or an asylum

0:22

seeker, nor

0:24

is it about someone that used

0:27

Indonesia as a transit point before

0:29

eventually be settling . This

0:31

is also not a story about

0:34

a foreign migrant seeking to become

0:36

an unskilled labor abroad.

0:38

This is somebody that lefts his

0:41

own country due to this

0:43

situation. Everybody barely know what's

0:46

the institution in India is I guess,

0:48

any good any media or any

0:51

journalists . So you

0:53

already know it from that side, thinking of

0:55

getting something better here. Unfortunately,

0:58

they didn't want ,

1:02

You're listening to Indonesia in depth. This

1:06

is Sean Corrigan, and

1:08

this is Tanita.

1:32

Yeah . Given the Alicia in 2017,

1:35

try to see if I could go into

1:38

one or two business. Then

1:40

I had , um, there are some people around

1:42

that sells a

1:45

business of claudins

1:48

heeds , Claude in the centenary area

1:50

has good qualities and other rights . And

1:52

, um , also there

1:54

are some global things like , um, the , the

1:57

box sells for men they can use. So

2:00

we buy then transport and

2:03

to back to Africa for

2:06

resell . However, every

2:08

business is comes with their challenges,

2:11

especially for someone who doesn't

2:13

have the right capital

2:16

to be able to run a

2:18

huge scale business

2:22

and , um , a lack of adequate

2:25

knowledge concerning how

2:27

the business runs. So

2:30

then let's run out

2:32

of capita rest after

2:36

a while I could not renew

2:39

the passport unaddressed document

2:41

paper. So I got busted

2:44

about [inaudible]

2:48

. Elgar notice this to get

2:50

it , to get it and

2:53

say , Oh man, definitely

2:57

I'm gone. This

2:59

is

3:00

A story of Lucas, not

3:02

his real name, who is currently being

3:04

held at a detention center in West

3:06

Jakarta by overstaying

3:08

his visa. He has violated

3:10

Indonesian immigration law, but with

3:12

no resources to facilitate his return

3:15

home, the detention center

3:17

has become his home since 2017

3:20

in a room that barely fits two people

3:23

and has an open plan bathroom. Lucas

3:26

chairs is Ru with another foreigner who

3:28

also attempted to immigrate into Indonesia

3:31

though. They don't call it prison. The

3:34

detainees spend most of their time in their rooms.

3:37

They're aren't allowed to work or earn money,

3:40

but some detainees have access to smartphones

3:42

and the internet through donations or

3:44

help from good Samaritans. Only

3:47

recently did the facility manager provide

3:49

spaces for recreation, but

3:52

with social distancing measures for COVID-19

3:55

and nothing much to do to begin with

3:57

Lucas spent most of his time thinking

4:00

about what he should do next.

4:09

Okay. Born in Nigeria, you

4:12

know, that already was raised

4:14

in Nigeria, scored in Angela,

4:16

had my primary education in Nigeria

4:18

, uh, secondary then

4:21

to touch her . When I

4:23

had my first degree, I studied agronomy

4:27

and I went for the struggle.

4:29

It was all this that I'm saying it doesn't is, gets

4:33

in their division Dawn because

4:35

we have a very harsh

4:38

might environments . You need to be

4:40

tough or tougher to be able to overcome

4:43

the environment and to be able to get

4:45

your degree. Unlike other countries

4:48

of the world like us , especially the

4:50

forced them to go to school. But in

4:52

Africa, the students, they

4:55

are eager to go to school. But the system

4:57

of the school in the very,

4:59

very harsh

5:01

When describing what he meant by harsh,

5:04

he repeatedly mentioned how social

5:06

classes and privileges play

5:08

major roles in determining one success

5:11

in such things as enrolling

5:13

in an education course of one's

5:15

choice, graduating and

5:18

eventually landing a job.

5:21

So most times, many of us, the

5:24

us about to become so many things, doctors,

5:27

engineers, but the

5:30

enabling environment is not there. So

5:33

I don't know if you see most of us

5:36

turning in into , uh , courses

5:38

where you can begin your

5:41

admission . I get , yeah,

5:43

because if you go for the basic

5:46

medical sciences, the competition

5:49

becomes such

5:52

that sometimes you need to be

5:55

somebody of influence. If

5:57

you normally talk with the criteria before

5:59

you can get admission into the

6:02

so what's luck is

6:05

part of the game as well. If you're lucky

6:07

in the admission . So that is

6:09

the major factor I would

6:11

say that affects most of the African

6:14

child. And they don't get to have

6:17

into the choice of

6:19

study on like that

6:21

in the U S if you want to be a nurse,

6:24

you can opt in to be a nurse, but you

6:26

want to be a nurse in Africa. It's difficult

6:28

because love constraints. Then

6:41

I studied agronomy . Like I

6:43

told you, in my first

6:45

degree, then I struggled

6:48

because the major thing is job

6:50

. There's no job. I

6:53

lived in the town. I live in Legos . It's

6:55

good in a bottle. And I told you, there's

6:58

no job. And I'm the

7:01

neutral struggle. Before you get job

7:03

, you need to be very, very influential. Or you must

7:06

know somebody that's very influential to

7:09

be able to secure

7:11

a job after graduation has,

7:14

there'll be a lot of huge roaming

7:16

around the streets. Jobless. There's no news

7:19

it's everywhere. So this makes

7:22

it very difficult for [inaudible]

7:25

to be able to engage

7:27

themselves, especially those that are seeking

7:30

for a white collar jobs. They

7:32

can't get

7:33

That's . [inaudible]

7:39

Like Indonesia. Nigeria

7:41

is a highly populated country with

7:43

over 200 million people. It

7:46

has a growing number of middle and upper class

7:49

and is rich in natural resources. Well

7:52

, Nigeria possesses Africa's largest

7:54

economy. And at one point Africa's

7:57

fastest growing economy. It

7:59

has also been struggling with some of the most

8:01

extreme inequality gaps.

8:04

The country has a young demographic

8:07

with more than half of the population

8:10

be under 30 years old. It

8:12

is especially hard for

8:14

the young and those who are productive

8:16

to move up economically as

8:18

almost 20% of them are unemployed

8:21

and many more are underemployed

8:23

based on a 2019 report from

8:26

the world bank and the Nigeria and Bureau

8:28

of statistics.

8:30

Then after that, you still stay with your parents

8:32

again. Second for job.

8:34

One year has gone. No good

8:37

job. Okay. You probably

8:40

turn into teaching. You apply

8:42

and the government's decisions. In

8:44

fact, you don't even know how whatever happens

8:46

the obligation and they don't know that's one

8:49

way. So you

8:51

struggle. You make obligations

8:53

into privates schools,

8:56

mostly , uh, secondary

8:59

schools. So you try to

9:01

seek job . The ones that you find

9:04

the peer will be so low. So,

9:07

so , so , so low in

9:09

a month, sometimes you'll be paid like

9:11

maybe 20,000, a hundred thousand

9:13

. Let's call it like $50

9:17

of $60 in a month.

9:20

So having that job 20,000,

9:23

25,000, let's call it maybe

9:25

like from $5,200

9:29

in a month. So cost

9:32

of transportation across the cost

9:35

of living costs , blah , I

9:37

don't know whether you might have to borrow or

9:40

your parents up to support you as struts to

9:42

be able to , uh , be

9:45

in attendance or to be attending

9:47

or to be working. So

9:51

that's one part of this story.

9:54

Yeah. So I thought that it was

9:56

not really, really working out. Most

9:58

times you stay

10:00

home day , trying to think of what

10:04

you could do. The

10:06

environment is very, very harsh. So

10:10

you, sometimes you don't get

10:12

to think very well. And if you're not careful, you get

10:15

influenced by friends

10:19

and windows and things didn't get easier.

10:22

After he went off to complete his

10:24

master's degree, a lack of finances

10:27

has impeded him to do work

10:29

projects that can generate income. So

10:32

when I checked, I said, okay, there's

10:34

no need to waste much time. Let me see if I could

10:37

proceed with the master degree

10:39

. So I wrote quickly, the

10:43

MassArt degree was the grid is good. What

10:47

did you study in masters ? Yeah.

10:49

I studied crop physiology. What

10:52

I passed through, or that graduates from

10:54

primary to secondary.

10:57

It was war then.

11:00

So it was like second

11:02

world war then. So

11:05

they must as well. I thought what war

11:07

, which I don't praise you

11:10

happen ? So it was tough. So I looked at

11:12

the PhD level. I said, no, he's going to be dope

11:14

. So I have to hold

11:17

on a beat . So let me see if I can look for job

11:19

. So that was the story

11:21

of the job you apply.

11:23

Apply, apply, apply stories everywhere.

11:27

So I wasn't there . So that was

11:32

After that period, Lucas decided it's

11:34

time to leave the country.

11:55

Why did you decide to go to Indonesia?

11:59

Oh , okay. Well, Indonesia

12:04

[inaudible] Indonesia. I just traveled. So

12:07

my duties , then we

12:10

have the, this mindsets

12:12

not just go abroad, do

12:15

some linear jobs. Do

12:17

some businesses is

12:19

better than abroad. At least you paid,

12:22

there are jobs that the people might not want to take.

12:25

You can't take those jobs. You've been hearing

12:27

stories about why we are growing

12:29

up from [inaudible]

12:32

us 20 years back. You

12:35

, you keep hearing stories. That

12:37

list is better than where

12:39

we are. We are , you are, you need to

12:41

be waiting for your parents to be feeding you even

12:44

at the age of 20

12:47

something. I don't know . It was ridiculous. I

12:51

was Magento meets just

12:53

few people, cognitive

12:56

friends , um, people

12:58

of the same ethnicity

13:01

village unaddressed . So when I traveled

13:03

to the village sometimes,

13:05

Oh, this is Indonesia

13:07

good. The Sunday jobs

13:11

blahblahblahblahblah . And this one about , um , educated

13:13

savvy to be easier because

13:17

we are not educated. Understand

13:20

some don't have maybe

13:23

these, some, maybe , maybe secondary

13:25

level of education on this topic . Have any

13:27

of them been to Indonesia already or was

13:29

it just hearsay? Yeah

13:31

, some of them had been Coleman

13:34

gone. So

13:37

the stories they tell you a

13:40

lot of about love country, but you

13:42

hear that it might be easier to

13:44

go to U S it might be difficult maybe

13:47

on this. There was

13:49

it called lottery program unaddressed.

13:55

So what for the Indonesia

13:58

is , so just get some

14:01

little amount of money that will

14:03

be on agents to process that for

14:05

you and arrest . So that

14:08

was, I never, I don't know anything about

14:10

Indonesia and [inaudible]

14:14

came in. So what , luckily

14:16

I was able to have support

14:18

from few people, processing

14:20

the vis , uh, then

14:23

the headache and other

14:26

arrests ,

14:26

Just as all his plans to flee

14:28

Nigeria seem to be taking shape

14:31

and was issued a visa to Indonesia.

14:33

He found another serious issue. Where

14:37

could he get the money to buy an airplane

14:39

ticket? The clock

14:41

was ticking. There were barely

14:43

three days before his tourist visa would

14:45

expire, but he still hadn't

14:47

been able to secure his ticket. So

14:51

he made a last minute effort to borrow money

14:53

from anyone that he could, if

14:55

he failed the money for the visa.

14:58

And the visa itself would be a total

15:00

waste.

15:03

The are , is at

15:05

a thousand plus now to get their tickets.

15:07

Have I ever seen a thousand plus before? In my life?

15:11

Yeah . Yeah. So how did you get it? Did you, did

15:13

you borrow the money or when

15:18

it comes to that, Africans are good.

15:21

Parents can go as far as going to sell lands,

15:26

we have inherited lands

15:29

from our fathers and our forefathers. So,

15:32

you know, as they are given, but

15:34

yeah , here in the land amongst

15:37

the children, so we have to

15:39

go sell plan

15:42

, at least bring the ones you have, what

15:44

you have so that Weber wants to

15:46

support, can bring in religious support . So

15:49

my dad , other times have it was,

15:52

I thought I would have him go again because it

15:54

was barely three days for

15:56

the three

15:59

months to

16:01

a spa. If you don't

16:03

come into Indonesia, that one is [inaudible]

16:06

. I was running

16:08

up and down her desk at , uh, you

16:10

know, so, but luckily I was able

16:13

to , uh, get

16:15

to the beer .

16:17

Were you expecting to get

16:19

a white collar job in Indonesia?

16:22

Yes. Yes, of

16:25

course. Now there weren't I

16:27

was informed to call with [inaudible]

16:31

. You will have certificates. So

16:33

definitely our is

16:36

, so I had to come with the

16:40

photocopies and otherwise. So

16:43

that's when you come in here and as

16:45

you can apply one or two

16:47

jobs, find a means , whatever

16:49

the system be, when you get here, you understand it

16:52

better than when someone is trying

16:54

to explain to you. So

16:57

that was how Indonesia big

16:59

Joe came in into the system,

17:05

because it was

17:07

like the easiest or the cheapest

17:10

or the cheaper gets in the visa. Unaddressed

17:26

Lucas is right compared

17:29

to some other countries, such as Thailand,

17:31

the U S and France, Indonesia

17:34

offers a much affordable, short

17:36

term tourist visa and not

17:38

to mention delivering costs in Indonesia

17:41

can be like a hundred percent cheaper

17:43

than most of those countries. But

17:46

obtaining a work visa in Indonesia is

17:48

often due

17:50

To shifting government policy and

17:52

red tape in a move

17:54

to attract investment. The government

17:56

has recently opened up additional

17:58

positions available for foreign

18:00

recruits while at the same time,

18:02

ease for an investment restrictions.

18:06

But even then foreign

18:08

workers make up only around

18:10

0.05% of the

18:12

total workforce in Indonesia, which

18:15

is a very small ratio against its total

18:17

population. And when you compare

18:19

it to neighboring countries, such as Malaysia

18:21

and Singapore,

18:24

Lucas is not the only Nigerian in

18:26

this type of situation. There

18:28

are approximately 400 other Nigerians

18:31

who are detained in various detention centers

18:34

across Indonesia, due to

18:36

visa overstays and other immigration

18:38

violations.

18:40

In other countries, instances of

18:42

short stay visa violations are

18:44

actually not that uncommon among Nigeria

18:47

and migrants. The U S for example,

18:49

which is home to most of the Nigerian

18:52

diaspora added new travel measures

18:54

to Nigerians earlier this year in

18:56

response to a high number of visa overstays

19:00

there are over 200,000 Nigerians

19:03

who fled their country as refugees

19:05

and asylum seekers, but

19:07

a and more Nigerians migrated

19:10

abroad too . Most of whom

19:12

are of a working age. According

19:15

to a 2019 PWC

19:17

report, young Nigerians

19:19

are fleeing the country and continue

19:21

to plan on emigrating within the next

19:24

five years. Due to

19:26

lack of opportunities at home,

19:34

Getting out of his country to travel to Indonesia

19:37

was already a huge deal for Lucas.

19:40

He has never been abroad and

19:42

it already cost them a fortune just

19:44

to get a one way ticket, even though

19:47

there was no certainty that things

19:49

would even work out. When

19:57

Lucas finally landed in Jakarta,

20:00

he pulled out a piece of paper, which had

20:02

the address of an African contact that

20:04

he had never met, but hope would

20:06

help him get started in a new city. But

20:09

passing through border security was

20:11

so much harder than he thought. When

20:15

I came the person that helped

20:17

me with the processing of it , giving

20:20

me the contact of a friend. You

20:23

understand? So when I came,

20:26

when they called me and said was already different than

20:28

because I had to

20:30

call to get across to the person before

20:33

then they gave me a dress. He

20:36

said , it's more, what what's it

20:38

called? [inaudible] then

20:42

I don't know anything about it . And so when I came

20:45

in to bring for

20:47

the person to that , some African delicacies

20:51

food so that they can have enough,

20:54

because I, you hear that in abroad, you don't get

20:56

to eat your traditional meals

20:58

. Don't get too expensive,

21:03

as much as I'm in

21:06

the airports and virtually

21:08

came in and tried

21:14

to threaten you, frighten , you

21:16

, you just get so

21:19

in virtually get entry

21:21

in the airport , looking

21:24

like [inaudible]

21:26

was late too

21:28

. Luckily enough, I picked

21:31

up a taxi to them,

21:34

got in whatever I know they

21:36

got in the ass . They just take me there . Cause I'm

21:38

stressed up almost

21:42

just , I think I gave him 25

21:44

bucks or something. It's

21:46

just stick me from the airport. Justin

21:50

At the immigration checkpoint, Lucas

21:53

was nearly denied entry due

21:55

to a minor administrative visa issue.

21:58

And he was one step away from being deported.

22:01

All the sacrifices that he made to get out

22:03

of Nigeria, the expectations

22:05

set upon him by his family and

22:07

the hopes and dreams he carried along would

22:10

all be crushed. Dashed, tarnished,

22:15

going back was not an option.

22:18

Tell us more about, about what happened when

22:21

you arrived in the airport. Why

22:24

did you say people threatened you? Or

22:30

what do you mean by that? I

22:33

don't know what to say. Maybe when I live in Indonesia,

22:40

I guess when I live in [inaudible]

22:43

I would tell you everything

22:45

that happens or that happened

22:48

to me at the airport. Now

22:51

Alex did individually. So

22:54

whatever, you

22:57

know , I don't know how, but they said they were making it up the petitioners

23:00

, blah, blah, blah. Now your

23:02

ticket is two days B D

23:05

book . I think I was arriving that

23:07

same day. If it has seeds that the

23:09

, the three months grace

23:12

and what did they call it or something. Then

23:15

they have to take me to one corner of the room,

23:18

you know? So a minute in target

23:20

me said , they're taking me back,

23:24

blah, blah. I said, why

23:26

are you taking me back? You don't know how far

23:28

I've come. You're taking me back.

23:31

You maybe it's the society. There's

23:36

a lot of depths on my head, blah

23:39

, blah, blah, a lot of lunch. And

23:41

then we will be hoping that something goes going to

23:43

come up on there . So you're me

23:45

back. It would be suicidal . I said

23:52

, okay, whatever it is,

23:55

the module I have. I said, I don't know

23:58

, rather than make a shit prize virtually

24:01

I give them $300. Just

24:04

, just allowed me to call me, let me just my

24:07

piece . How

24:25

does that uncertainty feel for you?

24:27

It's not easy because your

24:30

, your life at the time, like, I

24:32

need to be, at least I need to be home. And

24:35

then to be home, it's been a while. Uh,

24:38

you know, sometimes we don't plan

24:41

what comes, but we just come

24:43

and I say, man , a human being

24:45

, you have to face challenges, not

24:48

, um , surrounding any man . So

24:52

sometimes you feel

24:54

depressed. You become

24:57

, um , all of you

24:59

side in a state of depression , uh

25:02

, that why, why is this situation like

25:04

this? Then you look at

25:06

what are people doing good. But

25:10

at the end, sometimes you sum up courage

25:13

because you are Steve people, you are better than

25:16

you understand. So

25:19

yeah, it's sometimes

25:21

you feel that state of depression, you know,

25:24

but have time , you need to encourage yourself the

25:29

journey to live sometimes.

25:36

But if luck hits

25:39

you, then

25:43

you might be celebrated tomorrow. It

25:53

doesn't mean easy though. Hasn't been

26:10

The young men drive these back and forth

26:12

in the city has tried to speak , but it's

26:14

not enough. They hope that we have a wins this election,

26:17

focusing on the economy and tries to create

26:20

jobs at the issues of course affect Nigerians,

26:22

like the insecurity in the North

26:24

and Northeastern Nigeria, because the bulk of people

26:27

will live in river state . The old rich area complained

26:29

that the central government is spending too

26:32

much of that wealth on themselves.

26:34

And not in the people. You get people in Biafra,

26:36

right ?

26:39

Currently undergoing

26:41

an increase to Archie , tend

26:45

to sometimes communicate with friends

26:47

. And you're in. Have you ever been

26:49

in a situation where you are tied

26:52

in a corner, held in a tight

26:54

corner and even those

26:56

ones out there will be looking up to you

26:59

for part of their survival.

27:02

So are you really going to

27:04

do, how are you going to go there? I

27:06

don't know if you understand what I'm saying. So

27:08

you're saying that your friends and family

27:11

back in Nigeria feel that your situation

27:13

here in Jakarta is still better than

27:15

if you were back home. Yeah

27:17

, there's really no

27:21

job yet. Another is the key brand

27:23

that hoping one day you get the job and

27:26

it's better. They won't tell you they'll let you know

27:28

because it's better. You

27:30

stay in abroad and probably do petty

27:33

jobs and make some money. Then

27:35

you come home because you

27:37

already know the hardship that

27:39

is around in the country,

27:42

that a lot of insecurity

27:49

Her . Um , and to see

27:56

This is unheard of. So

27:58

it's not something that is hidden. It's all

28:00

about the media everyday . Not

28:03

the top of the Masaka . Not

28:10

really, really. I

28:12

know . I don't know what to say. What's terrible

28:15

. Especially on crystals,

28:16

Any Muslim has separately been accused

28:18

of being biased to what's the religion,

28:21

but he has urged Nigerians to be United

28:23

.

28:24

So every day we go to the news has been Masaka

28:26

is security . Yeah

28:31

. It's mostly what

28:34

comes up the country

28:36

is trying to balance itself because

28:38

definitely it's normal. When

28:41

such situations are happening . Natural

28:44

ecosystem will find a means to balance

28:47

on the economy is dwindling so

28:49

bad before. And

28:51

they complain . When

28:55

you look at the situation, you'd be like, I

28:57

wish you are working. So you'd be able to

28:59

get us something, make

29:02

some Serbians so

29:05

that you could go back without being a

29:08

podium or extra burden to

29:10

them. Because

29:16

if you are going back and they are going back

29:18

to be a burden to them, I

29:20

don't think anyone, although

29:29

by all measures, Nigeria is

29:31

one of Africa's richest countries. And

29:33

among the world's most culturally diverse,

29:37

it has been facing multiple security,

29:39

social and issues

29:42

From ongoing competition over

29:44

scarce farming land, reportedly

29:46

corrupt at weak central government

29:49

to persistent insecurity in the North

29:51

Eastern part of the country.

29:54

And once you return to Nigeria,

29:57

what are your plans? [inaudible]

30:10

Oh , really ? Plants . I've been thinking

30:12

about it in a very long time. I

30:17

just have to link up. I just have to hook up. I just

30:20

have to meet up. Let me just

30:22

go start something. Then

30:25

I have to try to make up again

30:28

, especially to us or whatever.

30:30

I just need to be out

30:32

there.

30:44

We want to thank Lucas again for sharing his

30:46

personal stories during difficult times

30:49

who wish him well on his journey and his used chapter

30:52

in life. If you

30:54

would like to read our interview with Lucas, visit

30:56

our [email protected]

31:00

to view this transcription of this episode,

31:03

if you would like to join our effort to

31:05

support Lucas with his returned home,

31:07

please join our fundraising campaign

31:09

with crowdfunding app Kita visa

31:11

, by searching for Indonesia in

31:13

depth until the 30th

31:16

of September, all proceeds will be donated

31:18

to Lucas directly. Let

31:21

us know what you think about this and other

31:23

episodes through our email [email protected]

31:29

or our social media handles on Twitter

31:32

at Indo in depth or our Instagram

31:34

at Indonesia in depth. This

31:36

episode is produced by Sean Corrigan and

31:39

Tanita is written by myself, Denita

31:42

edited by risky research and

31:44

fact checking. And in fact, the one that got

31:46

us in this interview in the first place, Veronica

31:49

and visually designed by Daniel. Thanks

31:51

so much for listening.

32:06

[inaudible] .