0:00

What's. Up you guys! I'm

0:02

Haley and I'm Andrea and

0:04

this is the three hundredth

0:06

episode of Inhuman A True

0:08

Crime podcast. Have

0:27

been. Of a Bully and we

0:29

are on episode three hundred. It's

0:32

amazing and we wouldn't be here without

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you guys. So let's give you guys

0:37

around of applause, computer, and the damn

0:39

thing at an early we literally would

0:41

not. Be here without you Like

0:43

the actual version meaning of literally.

0:46

A hundred about it. I

0:49

cannot believe that we are three hundred

0:52

episodes almost three years. Deep.

0:55

It's been a it's been a

0:57

journey and we're just getting started.

0:59

But you know think you guys

1:01

for being here for listening. If

1:03

you're new and you just started

1:05

listening hey what's up on. Were.

1:08

Happy to have you. Yeah.

1:11

We leather already so they really

1:13

owning are and human gang. Family.

1:16

Lan or. Village.

1:20

Whatever the heavy has Want to call

1:22

a above yeah Bo, But as I

1:24

thing you and in honor of three

1:27

hundred episodes, I wanted to. Cover

1:29

a big case that has

1:31

been requested. So. Many

1:33

times requested. Yeah, probably

1:36

one of our most

1:38

requested cases and. It's.

1:41

A Brutal wine. It's a crazy

1:43

wine. I have like heard this

1:46

before but I honestly learned so

1:48

much. That. I hadn't heard

1:50

even though I've like watched shows on

1:53

this case. and yeah, they're all kinds

1:55

of stuff I feel like I learned

1:57

a lot on i know, like that.

2:00

Meat and potatoes of the case, but

2:02

I don't know. Like all of the.

2:05

Gory graphic details. And

2:07

you know, yes, although our

2:09

it does he has a

2:12

lot. So. This. Is.

2:14

In. Honor of all of you

2:17

guys! Thank you and. Let's.

2:19

Just jump right in. Hey. Steven

2:23

Milan. Emigrated.

2:25

Croatia and was working as a

2:27

laborer when he married Margaret pedal

2:29

stand. Together, the

2:31

couple had fourteen children. And.

2:33

Their fifth child. Would one

2:35

day become the prolific. Serial

2:37

killer known as the

2:40

backpack murderer. Wow.

2:43

Fourteen kids? I mean,

2:46

And. He was like in the middle. He. Was the

2:49

first. Day. I've. In

2:51

Milan. would go on to

2:53

be one of Australia's if

2:55

not be most put prolific

2:58

Australian. Serial killer. And.

3:03

It's. A Lot. So buckle on.

3:06

Thirty. Four year old see them a

3:08

Latin that Margaret Elizabeth piddle thin in

3:11

church one day and they got along

3:13

quickly. By what was a little bit

3:15

worrisome was that she was younger than

3:17

Han. Almost. Half his

3:19

age. She. Was only sixteen.

3:22

Years old. Has

3:24

afraid you're gonna say that was like

3:26

okay, whatever. Like sometimes I just happens

3:29

like that you might be half of

3:31

someone's age but if you're minor in

3:33

your child and granted this is what

3:35

what year. The.

3:37

Forties. The Like forties. Okay, so

3:39

kind of. actually. That this point like

3:41

the thirties. Yeah, so kind

3:44

of like a little more

3:46

acceptable. it wasn't as around

3:48

upon back then. Yeah yeah

3:50

nice. Yeah

3:53

so. They.

3:55

Met and he He. Stephen.

3:57

Was able to woo her and also

3:59

the able to will her family. And.

4:02

They quickly married. Their

4:05

first baby was born shortly before. Margaret

4:07

seventeenth birthday. And

4:13

they went on to have thirteen more kids. Over

4:15

the year. I then Roberto

4:17

Marco Mullet was born on

4:19

December twenty seventh, nineteen. Forty

4:21

Four at Crown Street Women's. Hospital

4:24

and Guilford New South Wales. Australia.

4:29

His. Family, which eventually would be

4:31

made up of ten sons and

4:33

four daughters and his two parents

4:35

was described. As. Impoverished, impoverished

4:37

on Gosh, why cast his

4:39

or her hit a hard

4:41

one? A lot of them

4:43

are virus. That the best

4:46

order to get like. I Who am I

4:48

to judge? Dialect:

4:51

Man. It's

4:53

hard. But when Ivan

4:55

was young, they lived in a cottage on

4:57

a. Roll Farm about twenty two

4:59

miles or thirty six kilometers from

5:02

Sydney in more bank. And.

5:04

His father eventually started a tomato

5:06

plantation and the kids were put.

5:08

To work. Than.

5:11

The last were disciplinarians. They

5:14

were close, contentious, and raising,

5:16

educating and disciplining. Their children.

5:19

And they had a. More

5:21

of the like quote unquote

5:24

traditional old school upbringing. So

5:26

Stephen Miller. Grew up in

5:28

rural Croatia or before he emigrated

5:30

to Australia. And in his

5:33

childhood he had to like hunt for food

5:35

for his family, so that was kind of

5:37

what was ingrained in ham. And that's how

5:39

he earned his children. So.

5:41

His truck children learn how to

5:44

high use firearms and they would

5:46

often. The all the boys and

5:48

Steven would go out and height in

5:50

the mornings while the daughters and Margaret

5:52

were doing work around the house. And

5:55

honestly like it's a thought

5:57

terrible you know your instilling.

6:00

These good. Things.

6:02

And here children these these good trades,

6:04

these good skills ah I'm you know

6:06

for survive on the fact that they

6:09

were. In. Pa

6:11

burst. They. Had

6:14

to do that. You know in yeah it

6:16

can always be just upto the one parents

6:18

are. Go out there and you. that's I

6:20

mean, not being abusive about it. I think

6:23

it's It's understandable. Yeah. And

6:25

there's no direct. Evidence

6:28

of him being like physically abusive.

6:30

but he was originally i do

6:32

it yeah, I wouldn't be. So

6:34

I mean actually, I guess technically.

6:36

There is because he would hit the

6:39

children but back then that was acceptable.

6:41

You know, hit them like spank them

6:43

like for right? And I plan on.

6:46

By. There was definitely he

6:48

took it very far. Now,

6:51

crime Not okay. No. Matter.

6:55

The. Boys would often spend afternoon

6:57

shooting targets in their parents' yard

6:59

and they were all very familiar

7:01

with both knives and firearms, which.

7:04

Would. Come into play for I than later.

7:09

They. Were also very isolated from their

7:11

neighbors and the kids were mostly just

7:13

kind of friends with their siblings instead.

7:15

Of with. Other kids their

7:18

age. Where I am. They

7:20

all went to Catholic school, but it said

7:22

that most. Of them preferred the freedom of their

7:24

lives. That home and comparison. To.

7:27

School. And. Eventual

7:29

he most of the kids would

7:31

drop out. the children. Were.

7:34

You know, troublesome and would get into

7:36

trouble and they became well known to

7:39

the local police to the point where

7:41

if something happened in the area. They

7:43

were almost always blame one of the

7:45

mill at first. Like. It would kind

7:47

of just be like. For like, it's probably one of them. Allow

7:49

always like getting. In trouble again. Yeah.

7:53

Well as a lot of on so

7:55

as easy, easy target I guess The

7:57

others literally ten of them somehow. Likelihood

8:00

of it being one of them was pretty high.

8:02

Yeah, Steven will out was also reportedly

8:05

an alcoholic and had a bad temper

8:07

making their. Home life even worse. From.

8:11

The Book: Outback outlawed. The dark

8:13

Legacy of Australia's backpack killer I've and

8:16

Mullet by Ryan Green which is a

8:18

great book on the case on it's.

8:20

Definitely a little bit more of like

8:22

hey. I. Don't know

8:24

how to describe it other than saying like. At

8:28

the beginning of it almost feels not sympathetic,

8:30

but like they're kind of telling the story

8:32

of I then and not. Like

8:34

an opinion piece or so, then

8:37

like oh yeah and it says

8:39

discuss. Some things like in

8:41

says that has never been

8:44

sober it has. Been talked about

8:46

in several sources, but it's never been

8:48

confirmed and I'm not gonna go into

8:50

it at all because it's more of

8:52

just speculation. It's nine years. Since

8:54

I realized pain. Yeah, exactly. So

8:57

this book does talk about so that by it is

8:59

a really good book. So I'll link here in the

9:01

show notes. If you guys want to read it, it's

9:03

like a short read. it's it's very interesting. Of

9:06

light from that book quo Ivan

9:08

was the one who can best

9:10

take a hit before falling. He

9:12

was the one who'd scowl right

9:14

back at his father while he

9:16

was taking his a his braiding

9:18

and his beating. So wow, This

9:20

Is happening. I've was kind of

9:22

like. Kind

9:24

of fighting back. Oh that.

9:27

And that kind of speaks to his

9:29

personality. Now. The

9:32

family eventually. Moved out of. The

9:34

College. That. They were grew

9:36

up Him to Liverpool Australia where

9:39

Stephen began working as a wharf

9:41

labor. Their new

9:43

home and Liverpool with smaller and

9:45

more isolated rural than their first

9:47

home. So this played right into

9:49

what season. Wanted, you know then. Kind

9:52

of almost like home. Setting hunting,

9:54

doing everything for themselves and

9:56

I. They said that

9:59

didn't help. The into the

10:01

children social lives very well. Now.

10:04

Ivan Mullet specifically. At got

10:06

into a lot of trouble

10:09

in his childhood, much most

10:11

of which is well documented.

10:15

As. A kid, he was known

10:17

to attack animals with machetes. You

10:20

stop. And. If

10:23

you know anything about

10:25

true crime or. Serial.

10:28

Killers at All. You know that that

10:30

is an indication. Of. A

10:33

serial killer? What around with a killer?

10:35

Yeah. psychopath. Yeah. All

10:38

the above. It like so

10:40

that you have no compassion cause animals

10:42

are basically like. Aside. From

10:44

babies are like the most. Innocent.

10:47

Thank. Yeah. Yeah,

10:50

and so he did that and got into

10:52

all kinds of other trouble, so much so

10:54

that he ended up serving a stand in

10:56

a residential. School at just thirteen years

10:58

old. While. So.

11:01

At the Boys Town Residential School, Ivan

11:03

was confined to school grounds. And forced

11:05

to work hard labor. But he.

11:07

Actually thrives here because this

11:09

labour was less intense than

11:11

what. He was subjected to at home. And

11:14

without the distraction of his siblings, he

11:16

was able to excel in his classes

11:18

and even. Socially. At. Least

11:20

in his eyes. Because. He was.

11:23

Very smart and did very well

11:25

and academics. and he was stronger

11:27

than most of his classmates, both

11:29

in the labor they had a

11:31

deal and being able to take

11:33

punishment. So this. Thrilled! Him because

11:36

he kind of saw himself as like

11:38

the Top dog. I hear a beer.

11:41

I. Then remained at the school for two

11:43

years and after he. Was released. He

11:45

went back to regular school but

11:47

he dropped out at sixteen years

11:49

old as did most of the

11:51

my children. And

11:54

when he. Dropped out of school.

11:56

That's when things started to escalate. Green

11:59

says and. Back Outlaw Quote: It was hardly

12:01

surprising that the children who had grown up

12:03

being told that they were nothing but criminals

12:05

and would amount to nothing more. Did

12:07

turn to crime. Yeah.

12:25

And unfortunately I've and will last time

12:27

at that residential school had only help

12:29

him learn how to steal without getting

12:32

caught. And how to

12:34

basically become a criminal because he

12:36

learned that way not to do

12:38

what would make. Him get

12:40

caught and. So

12:43

and it seems like that's what happened with

12:45

a lot of these schools back in the

12:47

day is like it was meant to discipline

12:49

these children. but really they just kept getting

12:51

into trouble but then learned. What?

12:54

Do because their consequences wasn't going to jail

12:56

or getting arrested, it was just getting disciplined

12:58

and then they'd figure out. Oh, this is

13:00

why I got caught. Let me. Do

13:02

this differently. And

13:05

when he was successful with his clients,

13:08

he just. Continue to escalate.

13:11

So. He just started out with like

13:13

petty type crimes like steel Gabi and

13:16

Elaine and that at into that robbery.

13:19

At seventeen years old mill out

13:21

with caught for stealing and was

13:23

sent to juvenile juvenile detention center.

13:26

But he was. I kept their for long. His

13:29

brother Boris who is really the

13:31

only Mullah family member who has

13:33

spoken out against I then after

13:35

he was leader caught. He

13:38

believes that he showed the

13:41

ivan showed psychopathic tendencies since

13:43

childhood. Seen. He talked

13:45

about Ivan harming animals and also claimed

13:47

that I didn't confess to hand that

13:49

when he was seventeen years old, he

13:51

shot a taxi driver and left the

13:54

man paralyzed. So.

13:56

It's never been proven that this was I

13:58

Then, a man named Allen Delay ended up

14:00

being arrested and convicted of the crime and

14:03

sentenced to five years in prison. But.

14:05

There are still people who believe that

14:07

Dylan was completely innocent and I then

14:10

was the one who did this by

14:12

again thing I've in has never been

14:14

convicted. Of this crime or officially connected

14:16

to it other than what for a

14:18

sad sad. Frame. At

14:21

nineteen years old I've and Will out was

14:23

involved in yet another break in that he.

14:25

Was caught for. The

14:28

next year, in nineteen, sixty four, twenty

14:30

year old Milan was caught for breaking

14:32

and entering and this time was sentenced

14:34

to eighteen months in jail. And

14:37

he serves that time. And when he

14:39

was released he was caught just a

14:41

month later for stealing a car. I.

14:44

Guess so and he never letting him

14:46

go every time he sits in trouble

14:48

like oh brilliant enemy get worse. Guys.

14:53

This time a he was sentenced to

14:55

two years hard labor. And after

14:57

that didn't take him long to get

14:59

into trouble again. In nineteen sixty seven,

15:01

twenty two year old mill out with

15:03

caught for theft again and this time

15:06

sentenced to three years in jail. So.

15:09

They're trying everything. There's increasing the prison

15:11

or the amount of time he suspended

15:13

jail, they tried hard labor and they're

15:15

trying everything and nothing's working. so maybe

15:17

we shouldn't really fan. But you know

15:19

that. There.

15:23

When. I've been with twenty six.

15:25

He witnessed a. Major tragedy.

15:28

He. Watched as his younger brother Wally

15:30

and younger sister Margaret. Margaret.

15:33

Jr named after her Mom. Got.

15:36

Into a deadly car wreck,

15:39

Or my to home. While. He

15:41

survived but Margaret did not. Ann

15:43

Margaret was Ivan so he wrote

15:46

sibling who he was extremely close

15:48

with and like really cared for

15:50

her. He would like bring her

15:52

when he was. On away at

15:54

the residential school when he'd. Come back

15:57

he would like bring her treats

15:59

and stuff like they were really

16:01

close and he essentially watched her

16:03

die. Right in front of him.

16:06

Was he in the accident as well? Or of the

16:08

just like. Know it was

16:10

basically like near their home on the

16:13

road. I think and so he was

16:15

like at the home, saw it happen

16:17

down the road and then ran. Over

16:19

to them. But you know she

16:21

couldn't be saved. unfortunately. Yeah,

16:26

I'm losing his little sister. Through Ivan

16:28

into anger in Greece the only

16:31

escalated his crimes. In

16:33

April Nineteen Seventy one Malachi abducted

16:35

to eighteen year old hitchhikers from

16:38

The Liver Liverpool. Railway station.

16:42

He. Abducted them at knifepoint and.

16:44

Raped one of the women. On.

16:48

He then drove them around for some

16:50

time and they were basically in the

16:52

back of his car naked. Crying.

16:56

My and trying to kind of like appease

16:58

them and get them to stop crying. He

17:00

was like with in a separate a gas

17:02

station to get us some sodas. So he

17:04

pulled up to the gas station and when

17:06

he was inside. They were able

17:08

to escape out as a cab. And.

17:11

Thankfully they weren't harmed any

17:13

further. But

17:15

these women. On

17:17

like think about what they

17:20

know now. And. That trauma.

17:23

Yeah. That. They were the

17:25

first victims but they got

17:27

away from. Milan

17:31

was identified as their kidnapper,

17:33

but he wasn't arrested yet.

17:36

But. This. Was in part

17:38

because the girls stories kept changing slightly

17:40

and that made police suspicious. basically being

17:43

like are they just trying to pin

17:45

this on I've in Malachi. Who

17:48

has a criminal record like why

17:50

are we questioning Ny and they

17:52

were naked, yearning to lazy? I

17:54

would have way. So

17:57

despite his task, Seminal record. He was not

17:59

a media. The we arrested as.

18:01

Police continue to investigate. And

18:03

when he caught wind that he was

18:06

being investigated for this crime, he took

18:08

the opportunity to flee. He

18:12

first saved his suicide. He.

18:15

Left his shoes at the Gap

18:17

which is a large. Ocean Class

18:19

in Sydney and unfortunately a lot

18:21

of people go there to take

18:23

their on. my is. So

18:25

he left his. Shoes there to make it look

18:27

like that's what he. Had done, but

18:29

instead he fled Sydney to

18:31

Queensland than making his way

18:33

to Victoria and eventually flying

18:36

to New Zealand. And

18:38

he remained in New Zealand undetected

18:40

for the next. Or two

18:42

years. He.

18:45

Worked odd jobs and used a

18:47

fake passport to travel around and

18:49

he was. Not caught. In.

18:52

Nineteen Seventy Four Ivens Mother

18:54

Margaret. Had a heart attack in Australia

18:56

and was taken at the hospital. And

18:59

Ivan showed up to be with her. Allow.

19:02

Thankfully. He was finally

19:04

arrested. When he showed up at the

19:07

hospital. And

19:09

he had to see the robbery,

19:11

kidnapping, and rape charges from. Those.

19:14

Two women. But

19:16

thanks to the lab family lawyer

19:18

a man named John Mars then

19:21

and the time that had passed

19:23

since that time. It's a crime.

19:26

Lab. Was acquitted. Why?

19:29

Yeah. That. Isn't

19:31

sexy right? Some wine. I

19:35

know. Unfortunately, they basically

19:37

weren't able to. Yeah.

19:40

They can prove it because you know

19:42

what had been so long? The women's

19:44

stories kept changing again because. They are

19:46

traumatised and had been trying to forget

19:48

this for the last almost three years.

19:50

While they're rapists place. On.

19:53

The Run and I didn't know where

19:56

an alien the to rape kids. Back

19:58

then I. In. That. When

20:00

if they did, it didn't leave anywhere. So

20:03

I've been with not convicted on any of

20:05

the charges and he was freed ago And

20:07

this is when he began working as a

20:09

truck driver, which is how he worked. On. And

20:12

off for the next twenty years.

20:15

While. He. Nineteen Seventy

20:17

Seven, Ivan Malachi unsuccessfully attempted

20:19

to rape and murder to

20:21

hitchhikers. From Liverpool. But.

20:23

He was never charged in this case. For

20:26

see. In Nineteen Eighty

20:28

Three thirty nine year old I've

20:30

and met a woman named Karen.

20:33

Doc. Karen.

20:35

Was just sixteen years old. Similar

20:39

to his father, he wooed

20:41

her. And. Her family

20:43

and. What's. Interesting

20:45

about this relationship is that

20:48

Karin. Met I then

20:50

because she was pregnant by his.

20:52

Younger cousin. Hey

20:55

so that's how they met and

20:57

while her boyfriend islands cousin was

20:59

off working he ivan would go

21:02

and like help her with things

21:04

around the house. Quote.

21:06

Unquote opened up to her about his. Life

21:08

pulled her and and he was able

21:10

to convince her to leave his cousin

21:12

to be with him. My.

21:14

House. So

21:16

the to married in Nineteen Eighty Five

21:18

and she had her baby, a boy

21:20

and by all accounts Ivan embrace being

21:23

a father. They. Even

21:25

went on to have a daughter of their own. By.

21:27

Ivan also began spending more and

21:30

more time away from the home,

21:32

working and a relationship. Quickly started

21:34

to fall apart. There

21:37

are also allegations that I haven't

21:40

had a fares with several of

21:42

his brother's wives. The.

21:45

He and many other women and

21:47

currently you and Karen confronted him

21:50

about these affairs. He responded violently.

21:53

Just three years and their

21:55

marriage karen last mullah. Malachi

21:57

due to domestic violence.

22:00

On. February fourteenth: Nineteen Eighty Seven

22:02

I haven't returned from work to find

22:05

that Karen had less with the children

22:07

and had taken everything from the house

22:09

apart from Ivens gun, which was something

22:11

that she despised. That he owned. Good

22:14

for her though, because I can

22:16

imagine why it's the eighties. And.

22:19

You. Are. Are already

22:21

in this you know

22:23

relationship that is. Taboo.

22:27

Because you were pregnant with another

22:29

man's baby and the new marry

22:31

this other man it's his cousin

22:33

And come in, Harper like being

22:35

brave enough to protect herself and

22:38

her children because who knows what

22:40

could have happened to them to?

22:42

yeah, And that? That's not easy

22:44

now, let alone back ban like

22:46

that just didn't happen. So yeah,

22:48

node. Seriously. Like

22:52

major props are for version on that.

22:55

They were officially divorced by night

22:57

by October, nineteen eighty Nine, but

22:59

it would be another five years

23:01

before Karen learned the truth about

23:04

who her ex husband was. So

23:08

now that you know the history of

23:10

I've Milan, let's back up a little

23:13

bit to the early nineteen nineties when

23:15

several backpackers had been going missing from

23:17

New South. Wales Australia for

23:19

years. Hitchhiking in Australia was

23:21

seen as an inexpensive, an easy

23:23

means to travel, as it was.

23:26

In most of the world in the sixties

23:28

and seventies. right? I

23:30

mean, why wouldn't you hitch a ride with someone

23:32

going in the same direction that you needed to.

23:35

You. By as more and

23:37

more people were hitch hiking around the

23:39

world, missing persons cases also began to

23:41

ramp up. And by

23:43

the late Nineteen eighties and early

23:45

Nineteen Nineties, those who were still

23:47

hitchhiking in Australia mainly did so

23:50

in pairs. For safety. But.

23:54

Unfortunately, back could not protect them

23:56

all. In. April Nineteen,

23:58

Ninety Two, Twenty Two, The year

24:00

old Julian Walters and twenty one

24:03

year old Caroline Clark left Kings

24:05

Kings Cross in Sydney to hitchhike

24:07

around Australia. They were

24:09

from England and friends and family knew that

24:11

they were planning to go all around Australia

24:13

to tour around the south of the country

24:16

and they were excited for this trip. In

24:19

April they left a backpackers

24:21

hotel in Sydney to head

24:23

se. They. Made it's

24:25

a Bully Pass a mountain pass in New

24:28

South Wales where they reportedly ask for directions

24:30

to humor Highway. Which runs between Melbourne

24:32

and Sydney. And. Some

24:34

at some point after asking

24:37

for directions, They. Were abducted

24:39

because. No one ever heard.

24:42

From. Or saw them again. So.

24:47

Scary. I

24:49

know. On September nineteenth,

24:51

Ninety Ninety Two Two people running

24:53

in the Belong Go State Forest.

24:57

Made. A gruesome discovery. Now

25:01

Belong Go is a forest in

25:03

New South Wales that's almost ten

25:05

thousand acres of just. Nature.

25:08

It pine trees need a forestry,

25:10

there's trails and it's opens the

25:12

public and is a popular tourist

25:14

destination for both hikers and backpackers.

25:17

Although it does have a very

25:19

dark, sinister history and not just

25:21

because of Ivan will add. Many.

25:24

Deaths have been discovered in the belong

25:26

Go For Us! But

25:29

that doesn't stop people from visiting. There

25:32

would stop me from specific same no

25:34

thank you I don't want to run

25:36

across anybody's body no thank you. Yeah

25:38

and there have been people who have

25:40

just gone missing from the forest or

25:42

been found dead in and not necessarily

25:44

be linked to like out of order.

25:46

yeah like it's. There.

25:49

Is seems to be a lot of dark.

25:52

Dark. Stuff there but you know, Elsa beautiful

25:54

for us so people like to go hike

25:56

through it. Since.

25:59

September ninth. Ninety Two, These runners

26:01

came across a concealed. Corpse

26:04

and notified police.

26:07

When police arrived and. Searched, they

26:10

quickly found a second body just

26:12

a hundred feet or thirty meters

26:14

away. He

26:17

didn't take long for the bodies

26:19

to be identified be a dental

26:21

records as the missing women from

26:23

England. Caroline Clark and Joanne

26:25

Walters. They.

26:27

Had been murdered. Joe

26:30

Lists stabbed. Four. Keen

26:33

times he's. For

26:36

any cast once in the neck

26:38

and. Eight in

26:40

the bat. Five

26:43

of the wounds were so deep that

26:45

they had her spine. And the emmy.

26:47

Would say that those wounds would

26:50

have paralyzed her. Like.

26:53

The force that you would have to

26:55

have to do. I

26:58

know Caroline, on the other hand,

27:00

had been shot. She

27:03

had been shot ten times in the

27:05

head. Execution style A

27:07

like a key or at least

27:09

in the. And

27:12

at least. A couple of those

27:15

bullet wounds were showed that the it was.

27:17

Execution style. She.

27:20

Also had a single stab wound in

27:22

her upper back. What?

27:25

The hell that is complete

27:28

overkill. Yang.

27:30

You'll find out why the second. Now

27:34

why I know. Ah,

27:37

So I'm Caroline an Julian.

27:39

Bodies There were remains. To.

27:41

Indicate the woman had been subdued and

27:43

hide out to prevent them from fighting

27:45

back. So around Joanne

27:47

there was there were the remains of

27:50

a guy and nationally get her and

27:52

then there was a red cloth wrapped

27:54

around Caroline's had that the bullets actually

27:57

went through search believe that that was

27:59

like rap around her before she was

28:01

killed. The.

28:04

Fact that they were subdued with further verified

28:06

by the absence of defense wounds on either

28:08

of the victims. So. Scary.

28:11

They had been buried in shallow graves. About

28:13

one hundred feet a Julianne concealed

28:15

with the breed such as rotting

28:17

leave and caroline covered by a

28:19

log. The gun was determined to be

28:21

a. Twenty. Two caliber and

28:24

the bullets. On Caroline's

28:26

body also indicated something

28:28

very sinister. It

28:31

appeared that several the bullet had

28:33

entered her body from different direct

28:36

directions. But. The bullet casings were

28:38

all found close. Together on the forest

28:40

floor. So this told

28:42

investigators that the killer hadn't moved

28:44

Caroline body. Around and used her

28:46

as quote. Unquote Target Practice.

28:49

Oh My. God. Why? There

28:52

were also six cigarette. Butts

28:54

fourteen feet away from caroline body,

28:56

indicating that somebody had spent some

28:59

time at the scene. Hopefully

29:02

they gathered those were the Abilene

29:04

it at yeah obviously it's called

29:07

but. So

29:09

Caroline and Jo Anne had. Been found

29:11

murdered after been missing for five months.

29:14

The. Investigation into their deaths began with

29:17

authorities believe in the killer may

29:19

live nearby. Because of the isolated location

29:21

where they were found. There

29:24

was no sign of robbery. Nothing

29:26

seemed to be stolen from the

29:28

victims, including jewelry still on Joanne

29:30

hands. The

29:33

knife that killed Gillian was found to

29:35

be a bowie knife or a knife

29:37

have similar style. There.

29:40

Was no sign of sexual assault.

29:43

There were some traces of dark. Hair

29:45

found on Julian shirt and hands,

29:48

but basically no other beneficial physical

29:50

evidence was found. And

29:54

who killed them remained a mystery.

29:57

Police. Did an extensive search of the

29:59

Sir. Landing Forest. So this included

30:01

forty police officers that searched and

30:04

area five hundred feet wide. By

30:06

half a mile and a half

30:08

long. To search for other

30:10

bodies are other evidence. But.

30:13

Nothing was found. At.

30:15

The time. Over

30:19

a year later, another discovery was

30:21

made in remote section of the

30:23

Belong hello State Forest. On.

30:26

October First, Nineteen Ninety Three, A

30:28

man was in the forest collecting

30:30

firewood. When he discovered phone.

30:34

When. Police arrived on the scene. They quickly

30:36

found two bodies who. Would later be

30:38

identified as missing Australian couple Deborah

30:40

Ever S. and James Gibson. So.

30:44

In December. Nineteen Eighty Nine. Four years

30:47

earlier. Deborah and James who were

30:49

both nineteen, had less Melbourne where they

30:51

were from to travel around New South

30:53

Wales. They

30:56

stayed at a backpacker hostile in Sydney

30:58

and upon check out they were heading

31:00

to Contest, which is a yearly camp

31:03

out there civil held in the South

31:05

Eastern states of Australia. So.

31:07

They were planning to hitchhike. To Albury which

31:10

was near where they would be attending

31:12

Com Fast. And. They

31:14

were last seen checking out of the hotel on December.

31:16

Thirtieth. Nineteen Eighty Nine. The

31:20

next day, James's camera was found by

31:22

the side of the road in. Sydney.

31:26

And. The person who found it actually. Took

31:28

it home and kept it until

31:30

a month later when James's empty

31:32

backpack with also found in the

31:34

same area. And when

31:36

bout was found it was linked to James

31:38

who was at that point a missing. Person

31:40

to the person who found the camera came

31:43

back and turned it in like. Hey.

31:45

I found this, but the backpacking camera

31:47

brought no leads and their. Case went

31:49

cold and they remain missing until

31:52

almost four full. Yeah, eight years.

31:54

Later when they're skeletal remains were

31:56

found. It so. Like

31:58

creepy to the A the her. These

32:01

are. I mean, they're all young

32:03

people's I guess that's the target,

32:05

but it doesn't seem like he

32:07

has any. Rhyme or

32:09

reason to like who he targets?

32:11

They're just young hitchhikers just like

32:13

Easy. Targets. That's. Exactly

32:15

the only criteria in his

32:18

mine for victim Now. So.

32:20

James had stab wounds his back

32:22

and chest that were so deep

32:24

that they would have punctured his

32:26

heart and lungs. My Cause: But

32:29

it is believed that he wasn't killed right

32:31

away and that he was. Forced to

32:34

watch. I. Been. Or.

32:36

The killer. Who. Obviously is going

32:38

to be I venmo. As an

32:40

attack deborah. Deborah

32:44

Everest had been stabbed only once in

32:46

the back, but she had been. Brutally

32:48

beaten, My. First

32:51

call was fractured in two

32:53

places and her jaw was

32:55

broken. Oh. My. God

32:58

for he. The.

33:00

Brutality of of her. I.

33:03

Know and now he has stabbed

33:05

or shot and beaten people to

33:07

death. Yeah. It's

33:09

like. Israel keys like

33:11

no rhyme or reason to any

33:13

of it like tarp, male female

33:16

yarn and the i'm assuming they're

33:18

all young. they are only our

33:20

side the now the or would

33:22

between them. but. Yeah

33:24

Like stabbing. You. In

33:26

a beating. Shooting. Like there's

33:28

no yeah. It's.

33:30

Crazy. Said. I'll go past.

33:33

Oh yeah and honestly it's surprising that

33:35

they connected all of these so quickly

33:37

as you'll see and a little bit

33:39

because I mean yes they were found

33:42

similar area but I feel like because.

33:44

All of the. Manner of Death

33:46

for different. I feel like you know it

33:49

might have taken more time that they did

33:51

connect them pretty early on. In

33:53

the area? I mean, yes. You

33:56

know they are. They were found in close

33:58

proximity to one another. That Like you

34:00

said before, a lot of people are

34:03

found the season that forest. So yes

34:05

it's like okay that this is a

34:07

lot of people but you know if

34:10

our gas you crazy either? Define. Yeah

34:13

exactly. Like a dumping ground.

34:15

A kind of is so

34:18

deborah engines whose bodies were

34:20

found. Over one hundred and twenty kilometers

34:22

or seventy five miles south of where

34:24

the Cameron. Backpack were found back

34:26

in December. Eighty Nine in

34:28

January Nineteen Ninety. Three

34:30

And this it make sense because they

34:33

were traveling South Dakota Albury but Belong

34:35

Glow was further south west and Albury.

34:37

so who ever had killed them had

34:39

kidnapped them as they were hitchhiking to

34:41

make their way to the festival and

34:44

then driven. Them further. Additionally,

34:46

the backpacking camera were essentially kind of

34:48

a laid. Out leaning against a guard rail

34:50

on the side of a busy road. So.

34:53

Investigators believe that the items may

34:55

have been placed there to draw

34:57

attention away from the forest where

34:59

they would later be found. I

35:03

mean make sense and that smart.

35:19

And like as a sad the

35:21

cases of Deborah and James's murders.

35:23

And Caroline and Joe and murders

35:25

were connected at this point. Mainly

35:28

because they all of

35:30

the are several. The

35:32

victims had signs of

35:34

torture. A

35:37

fan. So at this point a task

35:39

force was set up by the New

35:42

South Wales Police. In. October

35:44

Nineteen Ninety Three. Task. Force

35:46

Air was created. And just

35:48

a little like tiny little fun Fact:

35:50

Low moment of levity here. Portals.

35:53

Ah yes, I'm this. Is actually

35:55

meant to be Task Force Air. He: why

35:58

are he. Named after Us. The

36:00

lake in the center. Of Australia because

36:02

the police department always named

36:04

task forces after geographical. Places.

36:07

Okay that the media katniss spelling

36:09

it as. Air A I

36:11

are So they quickly changed

36:13

the official name to be

36:15

Task Force Error A I

36:18

Are. Okay, so I googled

36:20

August Eleven at the I Like

36:22

name's well as. They're going to keep getting it

36:24

wrong. Yeah. But

36:26

less than a month after. This

36:28

task force has created. Another body

36:31

was found. She's.

36:34

So. As part of the task force, there

36:36

was a police sweep going on throughout the

36:38

entire belong. Go for us because after the

36:40

first discovery, they had said there's no more

36:42

bodies this time and they were going to

36:44

be confident that there were no more bodies

36:46

when they made that statement. And

36:49

they were. Literally. On

36:51

the last graded section of

36:53

the search. When. They.

36:56

Came across his body. Yet.

36:59

So different sound, Okay,

37:02

yes, So

37:04

first. They found a pair of pink jeans.

37:07

And then they found some blue and

37:09

yellow rope. They. Also

37:11

found an empty twenty two caliber

37:14

bullet pack. As they kept going

37:16

deeper into this area, they found

37:18

empty drink cans riddled with bullet

37:21

holes. indicating. Target Practice.

37:25

They. Also found random things like wire

37:27

cartridge. Cases and empty bottles.

37:30

Then. A. Boneless. found

37:32

and shortly. The. Skeletal

37:35

remains of yet another victim

37:37

was discovered. This. System

37:39

was also buried in the shallow

37:41

grave, but unlike other discoveries, she

37:43

was alone. She

37:46

had been stabbed eight times. To

37:48

of the wounds were so deep that

37:50

they would have severed her spine. And.

37:53

Others would have punctured her heart and

37:55

lungs. A purple headband sound on

37:58

the body. Along with clothing sound. Right

38:00

around the body. Helped

38:02

authorities identify this victim

38:04

as missing German backpacker

38:06

Simone Smell. Twenty

38:08

year old Simone had been camping around

38:10

Australia when on January twentieth, Ninety Ninety

38:13

one, she was leaving Sydney to meet

38:15

her mother, who was flying in. From

38:17

Germany to meet some own in Melbourne and

38:19

join her on her camping trip. Now.

38:23

Some sources say that basically

38:25

her mom. Didn't realize how

38:27

big Australia was so chose to

38:29

find the Melbourne. Didn't realize that

38:32

Simone was in Sydney which was

38:34

like a significant distance away and

38:36

but Simone realize that to leave

38:38

before she could get from under

38:41

change. The flight and so she had to make

38:43

her way to Melbourne So she was like i'm

38:45

just going to. You know, Hitchhiked there. And

38:48

Simone was a confident and seasoned

38:50

traveler and no one really worried

38:52

about her. Her. Friends and

38:54

family who called her see me and said that.

38:57

She was used to doing this type of thing.

39:01

Simone. Was last seen at a train

39:03

station preparing to leave for Western Sydney,

39:05

where. She would be hitchhiking the Melbourne.

39:09

And. She was never seen again. So

39:13

heartbreaking or mom's like right there.

39:15

I. Know she was going to meet her mom.

39:18

Like. The

39:21

Guilt. I can only imagine. Wow.

39:24

Her The skeletal remains were

39:26

identified as Simone though the

39:28

pink jeans found. Near.

39:30

Her body did not belong to

39:33

her. In

39:35

fact, it was known to the

39:37

task force that those belong to

39:39

another missing backpacker. A. Woman

39:41

named Anja Hot seat. Twenty.

39:46

Year old Anja and her partner

39:48

twenty. One year old Gabor and I

39:50

know I'm in a butcher. This last aimed

39:53

it's a German last same. New.

39:55

Bar. I probably

39:57

rusher that, but I'm and do my

39:59

best. The Boar. They

40:02

have been visiting from Germany to backpack.

40:04

Around Australia. On

40:06

December Twenty Six, Ninety Ninety One

40:08

on Jenga Bora left be backpackers

40:10

then at King's Cross in Sydney

40:12

to hitchhike to Adelaide. And darling.

40:16

And checking out of the hotel was the last.

40:18

Time they were ever seen. This.

40:22

On. November Fourth, Ninety Ninety Three.

40:24

After three days of searching the

40:27

area around where someones body was

40:29

found along with. On just pink.

40:31

Panther. To more

40:33

bodies were discovered in shallow graves.

40:36

Like I said, They.

40:38

Were identified as Anja and Gabor.

40:41

Pretty quickly, and they've been buried

40:43

about fifty meters or hundred and

40:45

sixty feet apart. Gabor.

40:48

Had been. Shot in the head

40:50

six times while Anja had

40:53

been decapitated. Know my? Like.

40:56

purposefully, Yeah, it

40:58

was determined that a sharp instrument like

41:00

a machete. Or sword killed

41:03

Anja. And the angle of

41:05

the high indicated that she had been in

41:07

a kneeling position with her. Head down

41:09

as you have decapitated. Ah,

41:12

and her school has

41:14

still never been found

41:16

on my entire school.

41:22

I know. When.

41:24

I'm here. Why? Are

41:26

people so evil? He

41:29

that that's literally yet. He is just

41:31

so. Sinister and evil. And.

41:33

I wonder too like what

41:35

is his reasoning for burying

41:38

them. So far apart

41:40

from one another. Like the people that

41:42

were together I know, I don't know

41:44

Maybe to to separate them and because

41:46

he would. Like added level of.

41:49

Sinister. Yeah, yeah, yeah, because

41:52

it seemed like in a lot of the

41:54

cases he made. One watch. The.

41:56

Other be killed so I feel like he was

41:58

trying to just be like. The evil in

42:00

that sense of like you guys don't care

42:02

to be together. Gabor.

42:05

Have been subdued with a guy and

42:07

not tied across his mouth. And.

42:10

He had also been strangled

42:12

and his jaw was fractured

42:14

in several places. indicating

42:17

that he had. Been beaten Jeff

42:19

Flake Deborah. Aca

42:22

born on Just Crime scene. Interestingly,

42:24

there are over ninety fired bullet

42:27

casings. And it was determined

42:29

that the same gun that killed Julian. Walters

42:31

was fired at Best seen.

42:35

They connect again. So they connected

42:37

them. In so, with all

42:39

of these backpackers and hitchhikers going missing

42:41

in New South Wales and the discovery

42:44

of all of these bodies, Task Force

42:46

Air determined that there was a serial

42:48

killer in their area. Yeah.

42:52

On. November fifth After Simone, Anja and

42:54

To Boras bodies were found, the

42:56

New South Wales government increase the

42:58

reward money for any information leading

43:00

to the killer from one hundred

43:02

thousand dollars. To. Five hundred thousand dollars.

43:07

The. Series of murders were taking

43:09

over the news media who nickname

43:11

the killings the backpack murderers. Investigators

43:14

developed. A profile of the killer at

43:16

this point. They

43:19

determined that the man likely lead

43:21

an ordinary life, that he would

43:23

be intelligent and social and likely

43:25

very said. He.

43:27

Was believed to be in his forties

43:29

and possibly married or in a stable

43:31

relationship. He.

43:33

Likely live in the area that the longer

43:36

low was in in the southern highlands. His

43:40

victims were young travelers both men

43:42

and with women most to who

43:44

are hitchhiking. From the Sydney area

43:46

told to the Melbourne area. Of.

43:49

Course This profile led. To many

43:51

new leads. And investigators checked

43:53

out every single line at one

43:56

point having over two thousand persons

43:58

of interest. Yeah

44:00

I'm that's create a lot

44:02

of people to interview in

44:04

check out but that's a

44:06

really great scuse me. A

44:08

really great profile on in

44:10

a yeah. Got

44:13

a lot of yeah yeah in

44:15

the head. And they

44:17

were. The investigators were able to

44:19

use this new link analysis technology

44:21

to shorten their list of suspects.

44:24

So basically this allow them to

44:26

link credible tips. And. Suspects

44:28

to find commonalities. And.

44:31

This narrow their list of suspects because

44:33

remember there's a difference between persons of

44:35

interest in Fairfax Persons of interest are

44:37

people who just to have knowledge about

44:39

the crime and then suspects or late.

44:42

People. Who are suspected of doing the

44:44

crime to their list of suspects. Was

44:46

two hundred and thirty, but with this technology

44:48

they were able to narrow their lists down

44:50

to thirty two people. With

44:53

soothing like a lot by hit with

44:55

not a lot of other evidence and

44:57

the initial giant list this is gonna

44:59

you know get hurt and guy allows

45:01

them to third he he ha. That's

45:04

pretty amazing. I wonder if they still

45:06

use I technology and how accurate it

45:08

is? Honestly, Fighters got me better and

45:10

better. Yeah. At.

45:13

One point, investigators theorized that there

45:15

may have been several. Killer. Is

45:17

working together. And this mainly

45:19

came from the fact that most of

45:21

the victims had been into attacked in

45:23

pairs. Says

45:26

be they were saying how could these

45:28

people have been subdued by one person.

45:31

And. I always say that is I'm

45:33

just like how late especially a man

45:35

and a woman because of the fact

45:37

that you know you would think that

45:40

a man could overpower another man. but

45:42

when you're been threatened with a weapon.

45:44

You're. Not gonna put your file parents,

45:47

You're not going to put your wife,

45:49

your girlfriend, your best friend who ever

45:51

at risk. Yeah, oh, it's easy to

45:54

be controlled under those circumstances. Yeah

45:57

and. I wasn't gonna include

45:59

that, but all. Bring it up. I just

46:01

know that it like hasn't been. Fully.

46:03

Confirm that this is exactly. What?

46:05

Happened by in the

46:08

case. Of on the James

46:10

and Deborah. It's believed

46:12

that basically Milan was like

46:14

driving them off into this.

46:16

you know remote area and they started

46:18

to become worried and like started. To

46:20

say things and James was like hey,

46:22

let's pull over and get out. And

46:25

and kind of started shouting when he

46:27

didn't listen and believe that what happened

46:29

was Malathion like basically. On.

46:32

Hit. The brakes really hard so that he

46:34

would like fling forward cause he was mother

46:36

at sea and then put a nice. Behind

46:40

him so that when he fell

46:42

back, he fell on to the

46:44

nice essentially like paralyzing him. right?

46:46

Away and the not

46:48

incapacitated ham. And then

46:50

he was able to threaten Deborah. Enough

46:53

with the weapon, obviously seeing

46:55

what he had just going

46:57

to James. So again, This

46:59

isn't like confirmed that. That's exactly.

47:01

What? Happened but that were kind of

47:03

explain and even if that's not exactly

47:06

what happened, it definitely seems like Mullet.

47:09

I mean clearly knew what he was doing

47:11

and was able to. Somehow.

47:13

A subdued the victims. And.

47:15

You know why they believe that in

47:17

a lot of the cases he made

47:19

one person why. It was just as

47:21

a the manner in which the. Former.

47:24

Diving over. Yeah, I think that's

47:27

part of it on. I think it's also

47:29

kind of like. What came out one

47:31

small out was arrested and will

47:33

get more into that. There were.

47:35

So. Investigators at one point did

47:38

theorized that there were several killers working

47:40

together and part of it was because

47:42

of there being two victims, but also

47:44

because of as we talked about the

47:47

different causes of death. You

47:49

need. A how help or

47:52

not how that wasn't as com and

47:54

for yeah one killer to to have

47:56

multiple emos. Yeah. Man.

47:59

I'm. Of. Oh how the victims had

48:01

been buried separately. It was kind of believe

48:03

like maybe there were two killers working together

48:05

and then they kind of with each take

48:07

one victim and do their thing. Yeah. I

48:09

could see how they came to that conclusion Them in.

48:12

The answer. Here. Doesn't make any

48:14

sense why out those details will be that

48:16

way. If there isn't it about it

48:19

wasn't so easy. I was just one.

48:21

Yeah, And fan. So.

48:23

After the Is seven victims were

48:25

discovered, things got very frenzied Obviously

48:27

people. In the area were terrified there

48:29

with a lot going on there with

48:32

a lot being reported in the media

48:34

and not a lot of like information

48:36

from the police have like this is

48:38

exactly what's happening and lots and lots

48:40

and lots of pets. Were. Coming in.

48:57

By November Thirteenth, Nineteen Ninety

48:59

Three, which is just nine

49:01

days. After Aunt and Gabor

49:03

were found. A

49:05

tip would come in that would. Change the

49:08

entire course of the investigation,

49:12

But. That is where we're going to pick up in part to. Have

49:15

some. Hopefully it. Changes

49:17

the course, In a

49:19

positive feedbacks it does seem a

49:22

guys at this is something that

49:24

I wasn't aware of. This was

49:26

exactly. How he got caught. And

49:29

when I was reading about it I

49:31

was like holy shit. I can't believe

49:33

that this man actually got caught like

49:35

he might have eventually. But the fact

49:37

that he got caught when he did

49:40

and how he did his into the

49:42

Muslim. Is pretty I'll so it it.

49:44

we got a lot more to go

49:46

you guys it bears. Him getting

49:49

hot arrested trials and so

49:51

much discussion of potential other

49:54

victims because Wow! There are

49:56

seven confirmed victim. It is believed

49:58

that he had made in added. The Anymore

50:00

yeah. And I do you

50:03

want to touch one more time. On

50:05

the fact that he was able to

50:07

subdue to ah victims at one time,

50:09

I was thinking that. He

50:11

grew up on a farm so he

50:14

was used to like lake worth work

50:16

like he was very strong very smart.

50:18

you know he had all these things

50:20

working in his favor of favor and

50:22

of course he that for like bad

50:25

but. You. Know you have to be. Strong

50:28

too. young, You. Know

50:30

kill an animal all and like manager

50:33

farm and all that said he had

50:35

like all those things benefiting him unfortunately

50:37

in this yeah and he had practice

50:39

with hard labor to because it wasn't

50:41

just the farm and like him growing

50:44

up but then he was and the

50:46

residential school and he was sentenced to

50:48

hard labor a one point select he

50:50

had practice doing maybe not exactly. Best

50:53

But things that could allow him to do

50:55

that. And. Yeah I mean imagine his his

50:57

strength a mean it's it's have. Been

50:59

in my God and those very. He and

51:01

he stole just. Three. Key

51:03

looking because can earth him really

51:05

look like you're like typical creepy

51:08

cilic serial killer? like doesn't. Like

51:11

a child. My way. Yeah. He

51:13

canada as he doesn't look like

51:15

the like Eddie Dean, you know?

51:18

The I hadn't realized that of those

51:20

everly out that eyes he added another

51:23

guy though the with i'll Tell. Ya

51:26

by god is only are you

51:28

guys today! Thank you for a

51:31

three hundred episodes, Stay tuned for

51:33

the next episode. It will be

51:36

part two of this case and

51:38

ah yes we will see you

51:40

guys than and so fan. Keep

51:43

a human body.