0:07

.

0:30

. This

0:39

is the Inner Rebel podcast . I

0:48

was like I think

0:50

she's starting , but it's .

0:52

It only matters when the camera is on

0:54

.

0:57

I was saying that I feel a little bit emotional . We

1:01

met very , very briefly in a weird

1:03

little context , but I was really moved

1:06

by the brief interaction that we had . I

1:10

just kept thinking about you for this and I

1:12

feel so lucky that

1:14

you said yes and that you're here today

1:16

. Thank you for saying yes

1:18

and showing up . I'm

1:21

very excited to share with our listeners

1:23

who is sitting with us today . We

1:25

have Aitch Alberto , who is

1:27

a writer director born and raised

1:29

in Miami . She has written on

1:32

the upcoming Mac series Duster from

1:34

JJ Abrams and Latoya Morgan . She

1:36

has also served as a writer on Apple

1:38

TV's anthology series Little America

1:41

from Lee Eisenberg and Sean Heder

1:43

. H has adapted and directed

1:45

the New York Times bestselling young

1:47

adult novel Aristotle and Dante

1:49

Discover the Secrets of the Universe by

1:52

Benjamin Alire Saenz into

1:54

a film produced by Lin-Manuel

1:57

Miranda and Eugenio

1:59

Derbez . The film premiered

2:01

at the Toronto International Film Festival

2:03

last year My Hometown and will

2:05

be exclusively in theaters this

2:07

summer . H was named one of Variety's

2:10

10 Directors to Watch for 2022

2:13

and IndieWire's 22 Rising

2:15

Female Filmmakers and most

2:17

recently , vogue Polan named her one

2:19

of this generation's defining female

2:21

voices in filmmaking . We

2:24

are so excited to

2:27

have you with us . Thank you for being here . H

2:29

.

2:29

Thank you so much for having me . This

2:31

is so exciting . I remember our very brief

2:34

interaction , but it stayed with me as well , so when

2:36

you reached out , it was a no-brainer

2:38

to say yes . So thank you for thinking

2:40

of me , yes .

2:42

I know if you've listened at all to this podcast , but

2:44

we tend to dive deep right

2:46

off the top And

2:49

you have adapted a book into a film . So

2:51

I went and looked

2:53

a little bit into that book And

2:56

on the first page of Aristotle

2:58

and Dante Discover the Secrets of the Universe

3:00

, it's written . The problem with my life

3:02

was that it was someone else's

3:04

idea And this ties

3:07

so deeply into the entire

3:09

theme of this podcast And

3:11

we usually ask all our guests the question

3:14

and you can answer this in any way that you

3:16

want . Who are you And

3:19

how is that different from who you thought

3:21

or were told you were supposed to be

3:23

?

3:26

Such a loaded question but it's also so easy

3:28

. I think one of my greatest achievements

3:31

and what I'm most proud of is who

3:33

I am and knowing

3:35

who I am now and owning

3:37

that fully and as authentically

3:39

as possible . That was not

3:41

an easy journey . I

3:44

was born into a Cuban

3:47

American household

3:49

in Miami which is very rooted

3:52

in toxic masculinity . My dad

3:54

, being of immigrant

3:56

parents , was definitely someone who

3:58

lived in survival mode . So he

4:00

became a drug dealer and then became

4:03

a fugitive And we lived on the run with

4:05

him for eight years And

4:07

through that time I always

4:09

I was assigned male at birth but

4:12

always knew that didn't align

4:14

with who I was in the world and who I

4:16

felt inside . But

4:18

the world was telling me I was wrong for

4:20

feeling that way . So you start to believe

4:22

that and then you add , like these cultural

4:25

elements to it , that

4:27

you're just like oh , there really is something

4:29

wrong with me And you try to hold

4:31

on to this version that other

4:33

people want you to be until you

4:35

realize you can't die

4:37

that way and you have to , like , walk

4:39

through that truth no matter what you lose

4:42

. So that to answer that

4:44

question that's exactly

4:46

who I am today was getting

4:48

to a moment , really late in life , where

4:50

I couldn't look at myself in the

4:52

mirror without at least giving

4:55

myself a chance .

4:57

And I did . I love that . You said one of my greatest

4:59

achievements is knowing who I am , and

5:02

it's so beautiful because when we read your

5:04

bio , you're obviously doing incredible things

5:06

from a more traditional success

5:08

standpoint But I love that that was your reflection

5:11

is my greatest achievement is actually me and

5:13

knowing me .

5:14

Well , none of that would have been possible at

5:17

all without knowing

5:19

who I was and owning that truth , and

5:21

it took me like a long time to have

5:23

that success on paper , always knowing

5:26

that I had some sort of talent and that my

5:28

voice was worth being heard . But

5:30

I would always circle a drain of success and things

5:32

wouldn't manifest . I started seeing color

5:34

when I just owned my identity , and then everything

5:37

started to come in , my career started to take

5:39

off , i said yes to myself And then the world

5:42

was saying yes to me . And so it's

5:44

just like it's really trippy to kind of

5:46

think of it that way , because you're just like I

5:48

could fake it , i could be this thing

5:50

that everybody wants me to be , and

5:52

then you realize you can't , because

5:55

it's just diminishing who you really are .

5:57

Yeah , yeah .

5:59

Well , I feel like we need to unpack every layer of what you just

6:01

said . But let's

6:03

go back to what you said about your family

6:06

. You said that your father was in the drug

6:08

trade and he was a fugitive for a long time , and

6:10

so you were on the road for eight years

6:13

as a kid . So

6:15

what was that like , and how did

6:17

having that kind of experience as

6:19

a child shape your world

6:21

view today ?

6:25

It was really intense

6:28

, right , But that's only in hindsight

6:30

and reflecting back on it . In the moment

6:32

It felt completely normal . I didn't know

6:34

any different . I was like

6:36

everybody's family was like on the

6:38

run and going to like

6:40

vacation spots and like sort of like

6:42

hiding out . You just don't know . You

6:45

knew something was off , but… I

6:47

credit my mother and my grandmother with

6:49

trying to root it in

6:51

love as much as possible and be

6:54

a constant throughout the

6:56

chaos . That was my childhood . But

6:58

it was only as an adult where I was like oh wait , how

7:00

is this living in my body , where

7:03

I'm hyper-vigilant , hyper-paranoid

7:06

, I don't trust people , I'm resistant

7:08

to get close . Chaos feels normal

7:10

to me . Why does that ? Why

7:13

I've been revisiting all

7:15

of what was , which is no one's fault . I

7:17

say that now after tons of therapy

7:19

. It's what I was familiar with and it's

7:21

informed how I moved in the world and especially

7:24

how I moved with people .

7:26

You said that you have obviously

7:28

worked through that a lot in therapy , but are there

7:30

pieces of that , remnants of that , that you still

7:32

feel you're navigating through now ?

7:34

I feel like I don't always be there . Something

7:38

that's also been really enlightening for me is

7:40

there's no arrival at anything , there's

7:43

no fixing anything . It's

7:45

sort of like how do you learn to live with it

7:47

and have a different relationship

7:50

with whatever that thing is

7:52

? for the individual , that makes

7:54

it a little easier . So I don't think I'll

7:56

ever get rid of any of those things . They definitely

7:59

come up a lot . They

8:01

just don't consume me anymore and they don't leave

8:04

my emotions . Does that make

8:06

sense ?

8:06

It makes perfect sense .

8:08

Yeah , it makes a lot of sense .

8:09

I saw an interview with you where you talk about the

8:11

film and you said that one of the themes

8:13

is how do you go through the journey

8:15

of trying to be who your parents want you to be

8:18

and who your soul calls you to be , and

8:20

how does their trauma affect the way that

8:22

you navigate the world ? So I'm

8:24

wondering if you can speak to that a little

8:26

more and how that question has shown

8:28

up for you in your life .

8:30

That was a big moment . It's sort of like as

8:32

adults I'm sure we all have that moment of like

8:35

, oh shit . Like our parents are just

8:37

human and you humanize them

8:39

and then you start looking at the bigger picture of

8:41

everything , of everything that their life

8:43

was informed by , and how they

8:45

make decisions and how like really they

8:48

didn't know much and they were doing

8:50

their best right . And then you

8:52

start like unpacking that further and

8:54

you're like , oh shit , i'm carrying stuff

8:56

that's not even mine , which goes

8:58

into the conversation of like generational trauma

9:01

and like all of that . And when it comes to

9:03

people of color or like immigrants , it's really

9:05

present because I think we live with this

9:07

scarcity mentality . So like it's

9:09

just such a layered journey

9:11

that takes a minute to sort of

9:13

negotiate with and make peace

9:15

with . But like if you could find the compassion

9:18

and not personalize it , it

9:20

makes it a little easier . But

9:23

that took me a long time . I'm not going

9:25

to say my real life , it was on Monday

9:27

, but it took me a really long

9:29

time . And

9:32

it still comes up and I see it and I look at

9:34

my parents I don't speak to my father at this point . I

9:36

look at my parents and I just have so much compassion

9:38

and I'm so grateful for what

9:41

they tried to do And it was like the

9:43

best version of that , you know .

9:45

Yeah , yeah , i think it's a lifetime journey . For

9:48

sure , it's not something that happens overnight and it's

9:50

something that's always . It's always living with

9:52

us , always .

9:53

Yeah , and it takes a lot of like forgiveness

9:55

too , which I never thought I would reach

9:57

that point . You know , it was my decision

10:00

to not speak to my father anymore . It was

10:02

not something that was adding

10:04

to my life , because for so

10:07

long , in trying to live

10:09

as a version of what he wanted me

10:11

to be or what he thought I should be , i

10:14

was waiting for a version of him that

10:16

he was incapable of ever achieving

10:19

because he would have to do

10:21

so much work around it . That

10:23

I think is too painful for people

10:25

like him to sit with , and

10:27

my door is always open and I'm ready to receive

10:30

him . I just don't think that I'll ever get

10:32

that And the version of a dad that I

10:34

thought I would get from him I'll never

10:36

get , which is fine , but he

10:38

also needs to meet me halfway And

10:40

I think sometimes we're like we're stuck with family

10:42

forever and it's no , you're not . You're

10:45

stuck with their DNA and what

10:47

they've influenced , but you don't have

10:49

to be in something that doesn't

10:51

fulfill you or add to your life

10:53

, and I feel really sad because he's missing

10:55

out on probably the best version of who I am

10:57

And I'm so similar to him .

10:59

When you started the process of making the film , you

11:01

said that you were delusional and

11:03

telling yourself that you were already being authentic

11:05

. And so what happened inside of you and

11:07

what started to get really loud that had

11:09

you go towards more of a truer version

11:11

of you .

11:12

That's my motto . by the way , it's like delusional

11:15

confidence is what sort of gets me

11:17

through the world , and

11:19

I highly recommend it to everyone .

11:21

I think I have that too .

11:24

It's like no one's going to be there to tell you how

11:26

to do it or to like root for you . You kind

11:28

of like got to be your biggest fan , which adds

11:30

to delusion . So , yeah

11:32

, it was that what I was wanting

11:34

to project wasn't aligning what I

11:36

was feeling internally , so I couldn't

11:38

aspire to have a platform and

11:40

be able to navigate this story

11:43

and not authentically

11:45

be living in the world . As such , it

11:47

was counterintuitive . As an artist

11:50

to it would feel fraudulent

11:52

, it would feel like it would be insincere

11:55

. And because it was like a truth that I always lived

11:57

with , i guess this story and

11:59

the reality of it , like coming closer to

12:01

being something real and wanting to show

12:03

up for it fully , was what was becoming

12:06

loud and undeniable .

12:08

You have said that when things weren't working

12:10

for you as a filmmaker , you felt the sense

12:13

of desperation in your household

12:15

to make it . And

12:17

as an actress and being part of the same

12:19

industry , i really relate

12:21

to that . And there were times in my

12:23

life where I found that I had to

12:25

really watch the tendency to assume

12:28

that if it isn't happening for me right

12:30

away on my timeline the way that I think

12:32

it should , that it isn't meant for

12:34

me , that the universe must be telling me that it's never

12:36

going to happen . So I'm curious

12:38

why didn't you stop

12:41

? Why didn't you pack it up ? Why

12:43

did you keep going ? How did

12:45

you keep going ? And now that you're

12:47

living your dream , what perspective could you offer

12:49

to those who are still in that struggle , that

12:51

desperation to get to do what they

12:53

love in an industry that , at

12:56

least from this side of things , seems to hold a lot of the

12:58

power ?

12:58

There's a lot to that . That

13:00

was a lot of questions in one . There's

13:03

10 questions in one . That's

13:06

where the delusional confidence came in right , this

13:08

knowing in myself

13:10

that I didn't know one , i didn't know

13:12

how , but it had to happen because

13:14

I just like deeply felt it , like

13:16

on a spiritual , visceral level

13:18

, and it was something that I always felt

13:21

And even if no one around me could see

13:23

it or no one around me believed it , i

13:25

existed with this , almost like knowing

13:28

something that people didn't know And

13:30

that was like I meant for something

13:32

. I don't know what that looks like yet , but

13:35

I'm going to continue to follow that and really

13:37

trust that . And when it gets really

13:39

hard , i'm just going to revisit that feeling

13:41

, especially like the younger version

13:43

of me , when , like , your dreams start

13:45

to formulate , because that's where I always

13:48

go back . It's like people are jaded when they

13:50

talk about the Oscars and sure it's

13:52

bullshit , but at the end of the day , if you revisit

13:54

that child that would watch that

13:56

and that was the aspiration , it's motivated

13:59

to right . So , like , i'm constantly revisiting

14:01

that version of me , because life

14:03

makes you jaded and adds all

14:05

these other things and it happens and

14:07

you forget , like , what the dream was

14:09

. So that was like a real

14:11

North Star for me , but

14:14

I knew what was holding me

14:16

back . I knew where the desperation

14:18

was coming from . It was me

14:20

hoping that I would have a break

14:22

, or that someone would see my

14:24

talent and give me permission

14:27

to continue to exist

14:29

in like a fake , alternate version

14:32

of who I could be Right

14:34

. So it's like if I could find success

14:36

, it would validate this

14:38

false version that

14:40

I'm existing in the world right

14:43

Because I'll have at least one

14:45

thing that I truly want and everything

14:47

else I'll just have to make do with . But

14:49

then I knew , on top of that , i

14:52

wasn't going to ever get that because

14:54

I wasn't being authentic , because

14:56

, as a trans person , it was something that I thought

14:58

about every single day

15:00

. And the desperation was

15:02

coming from the please save

15:05

me from having to walk

15:07

through this thing . that is like consuming

15:10

my life , you know . So it

15:13

was a fix . I was desperate for

15:15

it to be the answer , but also subconsciously

15:17

knew , and very consciously knew , that

15:20

I would never , ever get the answer unless I walk through

15:22

that truth . I hope that makes sense . That makes

15:24

sense . So it's like I needed to live authentically

15:26

in order for my dreams to come true , and

15:28

it wouldn't have worked any other way , and maybe

15:30

it has for other people , but this sort of like always implodes

15:33

on itself , right ?

15:34

Yeah .

15:34

Yeah , Were you putting it off because

15:37

of that , Like what was your tactic

15:39

to avoid ? I guess your truth .

15:40

Yeah , i was like in relationships that I probably shouldn't

15:43

have been in . I was trying to hold

15:45

on to finding

15:47

some sort of normalcy because it's like

15:49

, oh , a gay relationship is

15:51

more acceptable than being a trans woman

15:54

in the world , which is very true

15:56

and still is . But it wasn't

15:58

about the world anymore , it was about

16:00

me , and I

16:02

remember when I made the decision of doing

16:04

it , it took me a minute to tell my mother , but I

16:07

ran the risk of her walking away from me and

16:09

I was okay with that and I needed to be okay

16:11

with that in order to make that decision

16:13

and say it out loud . I was willing to kind

16:15

of lose it all in order to like exist happily

16:18

. And I describe

16:20

it as like finally seeing color , like everything

16:22

Pleasantville like everything just

16:24

starts to feel normal and it makes

16:27

sense . And you're like , oh shit , this is how other people

16:29

live and I've wasted that

16:31

some amount of time not doing that for myself

16:33

, you know . And when it comes

16:35

to arriving at your dreams , that's

16:38

where I realized , oh shit , there is

16:40

no arrival at anything . Me being

16:42

in a writer's room isn't the answer

16:44

. I haven't made it . Me like

16:46

making this movie isn't the answer

16:49

. It's all pieces of like of

16:51

what the answer looks like

16:53

when you reach the end of that you know

16:55

and we don't know what that is . So that gave

16:57

me a lot of freedom of oh

16:59

, i'm always gonna want something more . It's always

17:01

gonna evolve , it's gonna be hard

17:04

and it happens to all filmmakers

17:06

. Like , whether you're successful or not , it looks

17:08

the same but different , like the

17:10

dollar amount changes , but you're still in the

17:12

hustle , you're still trying to get the next movie made . It

17:14

just like keeps evolving and

17:17

I think it's the way we mystify our

17:19

dreams . That , like I really want

17:21

to tell people it is that , but it's also

17:24

really real and it's really painful

17:26

, and because you're negotiating with the reality

17:28

and the dream and then it just doesn't

17:30

always look exactly how you think it

17:33

is , but it's okay because you're there

17:35

. That , to me , has been

17:37

. I'm still working through that now . That's still

17:40

like I don't know what that is . It's

17:42

fucking weird because it's like you

17:44

have like I was making so much money and

17:46

then everything that's happening now in the industry

17:48

. I'm not . So you're just there's so

17:50

many variables to what I

17:53

do and what you do and you

17:55

just have to kind of like learn that that's gonna

17:57

always be there , unless

17:59

you're like super loaded and have been successful a really

18:01

long time and know how to invest your money and are

18:04

not a person of color whose dad is not a drug

18:06

dealer , and you know about stocks and like

18:08

savings and like all of these things

18:10

that create generational wealth and

18:12

, like I had no clue about them

18:14

, just learning in real time , you know . So

18:17

, there's just like a lot of things that go

18:19

into success that are

18:21

not what you often think they are , and

18:24

that's why comparing yourself to people

18:26

is not a healthy thing to do . in any

18:28

capacity They can motivate you . The perception

18:31

of success is what we want it to be , not

18:33

necessarily what the truth is behind closed doors

18:35

.

18:35

You just said so many valuable things

18:38

in that share and I want to take it

18:40

back to the beginning of what you were talking about , of having this

18:42

vision , this desire , and that

18:44

the desire couldn't come true until you actually

18:46

stepped into who . You were Right , and

18:48

I'm not in the film industry . I've

18:51

been in corporate , i'm a coach , i run communities

18:53

and I work with a lot of women

18:55

who particularly want to step into the highest

18:57

expression of their souls work and so I think what you're

18:59

speaking to is actually something that applies

19:01

to all of us who want to have

19:03

this big soul desire to do something really

19:06

important , and we're very clear

19:08

that we're being pulled towards something , and people usually

19:10

come to me or , even

19:13

if they're not working with me , they're trying to

19:15

do what you were doing . I've done the same thing

19:17

. Where they go for the job , the external

19:19

success point , like that's when I'll

19:22

make it , and you cannot

19:24

bypass yourself in the process . You just

19:26

cannot do it , and walking through

19:28

the fire is fucking painful and we all

19:30

have to do it in our own way in order

19:33

to find that expression of ourself

19:35

, to become the person that

19:37

can hold the dream . But

19:40

if you want to just go for the dream and avoid the becoming

19:42

. You're always going to fall short and wonder why the

19:44

fuck am I not getting the thing ? So I

19:46

wanted to just point that out because I think the becoming

19:49

piece is hard . It's hard fucking work and

19:51

it requires a daily commitment to self

19:53

and it requires a lot of courage and a lot of bravery

19:55

to do that . So I think it's an incredibly

19:58

relatable story to anybody with a

20:00

bigger dream .

20:01

Yeah , no , that's so true and

20:03

it's ugly . It's so ugly

20:05

and it's so painful and I think

20:07

we don't talk about that enough , we're not honest

20:10

about that enough , and I really want

20:12

to be for all women , for women like me

20:14

, to just realize like it's okay

20:16

to be messy , it's okay to get it wrong , it's okay to

20:19

be in your feelings and be emotional and be crazy

20:21

and be all of these things , as

20:23

long as you're visiting that and trying to unpack

20:25

the why around that . I'm a hyper aware person

20:28

because of my childhood , which is like a blessing

20:30

and a curse , right . So I think there is some

20:32

people that can fake it . I'm not

20:34

one of those people . you know so

20:37

and I'm happy I'm not . That's

20:39

one of the things that I'm like yeah , all right , cool

20:41

, like accept this version of who I

20:43

am or this part of me .

20:45

I wonder if the faking it though , because there's

20:47

a difference of faking it and making it and

20:49

actually enjoying

20:52

what you have created and feeling

20:55

fulfilled and feeling happy . So I think , if you're faking

20:57

it , my opinion is you're

20:59

probably missing that piece .

21:00

Sure , but I do think that I

21:02

fake it all the fucking time . You know , you're just like

21:05

showing up like I'm not in a good mood today but I'm gonna get

21:07

there , you know . Yeah , but it's

21:09

this sort of really being honest with yourself

21:11

, which I think there is people in the world and maybe

21:13

men are better at this but avoiding

21:16

you're just like avoiding the truth , you're avoiding the

21:18

emotion , you're avoiding the reality of it is so you

21:20

sort of put a band-aid . I think the world

21:22

exists that way . It's

21:24

sort of like speaking about gender period , like

21:27

even like a variance of what that is . We

21:29

have been taught that there's this binary

21:32

. It's really easy to believe that binary

21:34

, so anything that sort of disrupts that

21:36

ideology is scary for people to sit

21:38

with , and that's exactly what's happening now on a

21:40

global level when it comes to , like , trans people

21:42

in the world . So , yeah , i think people could

21:44

avoid the truth and exist and everything's fine . It's

21:47

like a sugar baby . I wish I could fucking do

21:49

that . I can't , you know , i need

21:52

, i need to like to do and hopefully

21:54

has deep pockets . I

21:57

look at women like that and like I admire it

22:00

. It's this level of avoidance that like

22:02

I don't exist with you know .

22:04

So no judgment , it's just yeah , one

22:06

of the things we were talking about was desire

22:09

and needing external achievements

22:11

. I have tried in my life to reframe

22:14

desire that rather than experience

22:16

desire to mean that I

22:19

want this because when I get it I

22:21

will be complete or my life will be better or

22:23

will fix me or will fix my life , you

22:25

know , feel like I have arrived once I have

22:27

it . I now see desire

22:30

as an indication of the

22:33

experiences that you're drawn

22:35

to , so that it actually encompasses

22:37

the whole journey . We

22:39

pick the thing that is actually

22:41

going to take us through

22:43

the exact set of experiences

22:45

or the exact initiation that

22:47

we need to come into wholeness , to

22:50

come into our authenticity . We almost

22:52

like directly , face the challenges

22:54

intentionally , i think that's it

22:56

right .

22:57

It's the acceptance , that desire

22:59

or reframing of the narrative

23:01

, that desire is like the answer versus

23:04

the motivation . So I could

23:06

desire to be

23:08

a famous actress or

23:10

an actress period , And it's just

23:12

a catalyst , a motivation , not the answer

23:15

. And it's like how are you sort

23:18

of being present to

23:20

the experience ? Because I

23:22

think to be a good actor you have to really

23:24

allow yourself to live

23:26

and feel and do all these things . So

23:29

if the motivation and the goal is

23:31

to be an actor , everything

23:33

along that journey to your point informing

23:36

that With the writing and the directing , I'm always reading

23:38

like what's informing my next project , How

23:40

am I hearing the people that I interact

23:42

with as potential

23:45

influences , stories that I want to

23:47

tell ? How am I being present for my

23:49

life , to experience it , to then

23:51

inform my

23:53

desire , right

23:55

? So then you're fully experiencing

23:58

life as much as you can . I

24:00

think I write because I'm absolutely fascinated

24:03

with human dynamics , especially

24:05

male , female ones , especially

24:08

when it comes to love , especially

24:11

when it comes to dating as a

24:13

trans woman in the world and being

24:15

desired by men that don't

24:17

know how to exist beside you . If

24:20

you start looking at your life

24:22

on how can my life inform

24:24

my desire , then it all

24:26

is informing the bigger picture

24:29

. So there's no wasted time

24:31

. You're sort of always living in

24:33

the truth of what your desire is

24:35

, because it's informing the ultimate

24:37

goal .

24:39

I think trust or desire is a powerful

24:41

fuel . If we try to shut

24:43

our desire down , it's like killing our

24:45

life force right . It shuts down an important

24:47

part of us . It's giving us information

24:50

about the journey that we want to go

24:52

on in this life .

24:54

Often see it in artists mostly

24:56

in artists that didn't follow that path

24:58

I'll meet people that are like , oh

25:00

, i'm doing this thing and I'm making money , but really

25:03

I wish I was painting , really

25:05

I wish I was playing instruments . It's

25:07

usually your soul is calling to

25:09

you in some way and I think that

25:12

you could hold all of it . You don't have

25:14

to be one thing or the other . So I think

25:16

when we negate our desires , our

25:18

dreams , whatever name you want to put on

25:20

it , there's always going to be a void

25:23

in us . And the other

25:25

thing that I think that I'm really passionate

25:28

about is allowing your ugly

25:30

, like whatever that is , like your trauma

25:33

, to be your superpower and your

25:35

answer . My

25:37

ugly was this thing that I thought was

25:39

holding me back , but it was

25:41

really the answer to what I was aspiring

25:43

to be . So that was really

25:45

revealing to me . I'm

25:47

like , oh , the thing that I've been trying to avoid is

25:49

the fucking answer . Always

25:52

this It always is . So

25:54

I think , once we allow that to sort of creep

25:56

its way in gently because I think

25:58

everybody goes through that on their own whatever that is

26:00

for you , i also

26:02

refused at this point in my life to let my

26:04

identity be my whole identity

26:07

, my transness , is this

26:10

much of my life . I'm like a woman

26:12

who happens to be trans , who

26:14

happens to be a writer , who happens

26:16

to be a really dope soul

26:19

to exist in the world

26:21

and who I share my time with , who I give

26:23

my energy to , is also really specific

26:25

at this point in my life . So

26:27

I think I'm really proud of that . I'm

26:29

really proud of the not needing to

26:31

search for answers in other people or

26:33

validation .

26:35

I'm wondering if you can speak emotionally

26:37

to the process of

26:39

answering your soul's call . You

26:42

mentioned earlier that , even getting to

26:44

the point that you could sit with your mother

26:46

and be okay if she

26:48

turned away I think it's true for

26:51

all of us that our authentic

26:53

selves are on the other side of what we're

26:55

most afraid of . but the actual

26:57

process to get to the point that

27:00

you have cultivated enough courage

27:02

but also are okay enough within

27:04

yourself to do whatever it is you need

27:06

to do for you . I'm just wondering if you

27:08

can invite us into how

27:11

you were able to finally get there .

27:13

I've been really angry

27:15

. I will not anymore . But

27:17

like I was really angry , i was really sad

27:19

. I was really aggressive

27:22

. It would manifest in these ugly ways

27:24

. I was like , oh shit , but this is not really

27:26

who I am . I'm sort of this gentle person

27:29

but the world is talking that I need to protect

27:31

myself from it . I'm still

27:33

negotiating that because I've hardened that . I think a lot

27:35

of women do because of the way we have to exist

27:38

in the world constantly , in our masculine energy

27:40

, we're constantly in survival mode

27:42

. So that's something that is

27:44

really painful and having the awareness

27:46

around that Maybe

27:48

helped me a lot . Like constantly searching

27:51

for answers . I mean , i was in abusive

27:53

relationships where I was on the receiving

27:55

end and also the aggressor . There's been so

27:57

much ugly that I've allowed

28:00

myself to go through trying

28:02

to avoid something that was

28:04

again always the answer . I

28:06

think I needed to push myself

28:09

to the ugliest to realize

28:11

that wasn't how I want to exist

28:13

in the world , because it wasn't fulfilling

28:16

my soul and the

28:18

higher version of myself . It was just

28:21

undeniable . So it was a lot of chronic

28:23

, a lot of really toxic

28:25

behavior , a lot of using

28:28

my body in ways that

28:30

I thought would validate me , finding

28:32

and seeking validation in other people , especially

28:34

men , like yeah , anything

28:38

that you could imagine I've

28:40

done , and it's like a constant

28:42

, especially in trans women , where

28:45

not only are you having this conversation

28:47

with yourself but the world is also having

28:49

it for you And you're like the bottom

28:52

of the barrel in so many communities and

28:54

on this global scale where you're like being invalidated

28:57

constantly is

28:59

really painful . So a lot

29:01

of trans women seek

29:04

out ways of being

29:06

validated that are not healthy

29:08

to the bigger picture of your life and it

29:10

has nothing to do with sex work . It has to do with

29:12

what you're accepting And

29:14

then you're affirming the

29:17

way the world is perceiving

29:19

you . But you want to be seen for

29:21

like an hour And that's a

29:23

really painful sort of thing to not have

29:25

readily available or not

29:28

think is an option for you . It's not easy

29:30

for me to date in the world , but there are people

29:32

that like , if you set your boundaries and

29:34

I think the supplies to everyone will

29:37

meet you there , and I

29:39

can't see enough how Much

29:41

better it is to be alone than in bad company

29:44

, and that takes a long time

29:46

, a long time to realize that , but

29:49

finding yourself for it is everything

29:51

. So yeah , it's

29:54

really it's been really , really painful , really

29:56

painful , and it still is , and I still

29:58

waiver . These dark thoughts come

30:01

in and I know I hear like

30:03

younger folks Come and talk to me and be like if

30:05

I could just get to where you are . This happened to me

30:07

recently . You know like to where I am . I was like , yeah

30:09

, like it's cool that I made a movie , but

30:11

when the door is closed , like I'm alone and

30:13

it's scary and I'm messy and

30:16

I don't always get it right , so

30:18

take me off the pedestal . It's very

30:20

similar to who you are and how

30:22

we're existing . I'm just relentless

30:24

in like achieving my dreams , but that's possible

30:27

for anybody .

30:28

How have you found , you know

30:30

, feeling safe in the world ? I mean , it's

30:32

a theme for all of us , right , that we want to feel seen and we want

30:34

to feel safe . And How

30:36

have you navigated that ? How have you found

30:38

communities where you Have

30:41

felt safe to show up as you and found

30:43

those , those key people in your life who have given

30:45

you permission to ? I mean , i know it

30:47

starts with you , but we need to have those

30:49

people in our life where we're like you're

30:51

fully accepted and welcome and safe

30:53

here , exactly as you are . How have you navigated

30:55

finding those people ? I'm always searching

30:57

for those people .

30:59

So I have a core group of people that that's

31:01

who I keep around me and usually

31:03

like the same faces , and I'm okay because

31:05

I'm getting that like I could fully show

31:08

up as myself . I'm not great at small

31:10

talk , i like to like dive deep , so

31:12

, yeah , it's just like being really specific

31:14

and knowing There's like this like Undeniable

31:17

sort of thing that happens when you meet

31:19

people that you really feel safe with . You know

31:21

, but I'm always searching for that and

31:23

Anyone I come in contact

31:25

. I think it's just rare because

31:28

we often are showing up with

31:30

all our own shit , you know , and I think

31:32

if we stop personalizing

31:34

how we're received in the world

31:37

, that's how you'd normalize

31:39

things right . I'm not leading with my identity

31:41

, i'm leading with me

31:44

, and if my identity becomes

31:46

a part of the conversation , this happens

31:48

quite a bit , especially when it comes to dudes . This was

31:50

said to me once I had met a guy and I had it like

31:52

just close to him right away , and we

31:54

got to a point where it was like you

31:57

know , right , and like I said , i was trans

31:59

and he's like why don't I want to kill you right now

32:01

If he

32:03

was like you're a woman ? and it's like

32:05

, yes , it's a scary statement , but if we take

32:07

that away and

32:09

realize what he's been informed

32:11

, you're like oh okay , i've changed

32:14

this guy , i've shifted this guy's perspective

32:16

on who we are , because he actually

32:18

Interacted with a real trans

32:20

person and wasn't being fed a

32:22

version of who we are .

32:25

So was he saying why don't you match

32:27

up to what I've been told ?

32:29

That's basically what that statement is

32:32

Why do I see you as who you

32:34

are and why am I still attracted to you ? I

32:36

didn't feel scared by that statement , right ? I

32:38

think he was being really revealing about what

32:40

was happening to him internally . It

32:43

was what he's being fed and

32:45

it's like , oh you know , men in dresses

32:48

or men in wigs , and I wasn't

32:50

that for him , so he was really

32:52

seeing me . It

32:55

goes to say that , like you know , a lot of

32:57

what's the word judgment comes

32:59

from is rooted in fear and

33:01

not knowing . Yeah for sure . So

33:03

when I'm existing in spaces

33:06

that I don't belong in and

33:08

you're not Looking at me

33:10

just solely on my identity , you're

33:12

shifting the narrative , right . So

33:15

that's why I'm really passionate about

33:18

not othering myself . Everywhere

33:20

I go Yeah , yeah .

33:23

Can you tell us about How

33:26

Aristotle and Dante

33:28

discover the secrets of the universe

33:30

came into your life ? How

33:33

did you find that book ?

33:35

I was , um , i acted for a

33:37

little bit too . I

33:40

was doing a play in 2014

33:42

. I think 2013 I don't

33:44

remember the year right now for fringe

33:46

, and one of the actors in the show

33:48

is like you should read this book . So

33:51

it's a recommendation from a friend , and I

33:53

was in Portland for Thanksgiving

33:56

with an ex-boyfriend . I bought the book and

33:58

then I read it in one sitting and I was like holy

34:00

shit , this is everything I want

34:03

to say . This is like talking

34:05

about identity in a way that's like really gentle

34:07

and beautiful , especially when it comes to like

34:09

Latino stories , like Latinic stories

34:12

, latinese stories that I hadn't seen

34:14

before . I'd had this like really gentle lens

34:16

to it . So I had a producer friend check

34:18

the right and to me it was like impossible

34:21

that the rights would be available because It

34:23

was just so undeniably beautiful and they were

34:26

. Then I wrote the script on spec

34:28

, which means I did it for free

34:30

and without permission .

34:33

This is before you . You spoke with the author

34:35

this is before .

34:37

So I wrote the script and then I

34:39

reached out to the author . I

34:41

said to him an email and I was like , hey , i

34:44

did this thing and can

34:46

I come and meet you ? That was in January

34:49

. In February , march

34:51

, i was in El Paso , where

34:53

the story takes place and where Benjamin lives

34:55

. On the way there I don't think I've said

34:57

this before on the way there , i was like what

35:00

am I doing ? Like I was on the plane , i

35:02

was like this dude could be like a fucking creeper

35:04

. I was like . And then like

35:06

I was like no

35:09

, he wrote Aristotle and Dante . There's no way

35:11

. And sure enough , it was like these really

35:13

beautiful , magical four days that we spent

35:15

together and he like read the script to me

35:17

And by the

35:19

end of that trip we were sitting in a Mexican

35:21

restaurant in Las Cruces , new Mexico , and he's

35:23

like these boys are mine and now I give them

35:25

to you . And we're both like crying

35:28

. And then I discovered

35:30

that this book is like huge .

35:33

Like a huge deal . It's a huge deal .

35:35

Yeah , like there's like people that have

35:37

tattoos and like Lin-Manuel Miranda

35:39

has done the audio book and I'm like what are you

35:41

doing ? bitch , like what are you doing ? And

35:44

then a producer friend well , she wasn't

35:46

in my friend yet , but Outfest

35:48

connected me with Valerie Stadler , who's a producer

35:51

. We started developing the script together

35:53

and it was like 30 drafts

35:56

in took us a really long time

35:58

. And then I was like we need to get Lin-Manuel

36:00

involved in some capacity . So

36:02

we did the traditional route

36:04

This had said before and I feel like everybody's heard the story

36:06

, but maybe not . We did the traditional route

36:09

managers , agents , no response

36:11

. It was months and months of no response . I was

36:13

like you know what ? nothing about this story

36:15

or my life has been traditional

36:17

. I'm gonna tweet

36:20

at Lin-Manuel . So I tweeted at

36:22

Lin-Manuel . It was like New Year's Day

36:24

, 2019 . And I was like

36:27

, hey , i hope Lin-Manuel reads

36:29

my script this year And I had already

36:31

fans of the book following me , so it really helped

36:33

him to notice it . And 20 minutes

36:35

later he replied . Three months later he was in LA

36:37

and agreeing to be a producer on the

36:39

movie And then , little by little , everything

36:42

just started to fall into place . I

36:44

got an agent , i did the Sundance

36:46

episodic lab . I started working in television

36:49

. I had met Eva Longoria on

36:52

a pitch for her new movie , flaming Hot that's coming

36:54

out soon . We really connected

36:56

And so it was just like how

36:58

can I make this work ? Being validated by all

37:00

these people ? like my profile

37:02

as like a worthy contender to be a director

37:05

for the movie was becoming

37:07

really real , because I've always wanted to direct it And

37:10

I was told I couldn't . So it was like with other

37:12

bigger directors , but I just was

37:15

doing the work and always knew

37:17

that it was my story to tell . And whenever

37:19

there was like a bunch of false starts , i was like , yeah

37:21

, duh . And once I was

37:23

like found a financier , pitched

37:25

my vision of the movie to Lin and

37:27

he agreed to have my back . And

37:30

once that started to happen , everything

37:32

started to fall into place . Yeah , so

37:34

we got financing . Like Eugenio

37:36

came on board , everything just was

37:39

easy . You know , post production

37:41

not so much , but everything

37:44

to that point was just yeah , it was meant to

37:46

be just like worked out .

37:47

I love that when the ease is there , there's alignment

37:50

.

37:51

That's it , that's it , that's it . I

37:53

really look for that in all aspects of my life

37:55

.

37:56

Yeah .

37:57

But what someone might just dismiss as

37:59

like an impossible dream , you actually had the courage

38:01

. you had the courage to make that phone call and

38:03

talk to the writer . You had the courage to tweet Lin

38:06

Manuel without having any idea

38:08

at first how you would actually pull it off

38:10

, So you were just listening to her

38:12

instincts . I mean , I don't know if you could even see the

38:14

outcome at that point . What

38:17

was it for you in the middle of it that kept

38:19

you going ?

38:20

I could see the outcome , or like my version

38:22

of what the outcome was Like . I really dreamt

38:25

it , visualized it , like the

38:27

whole thing , but in a very like natural

38:30

way . it was an I'm going to manifest this thing . It

38:32

was just . I see this . I see

38:34

myself like in a theater

38:36

watching this movie with an audience . I see

38:38

myself on set . Like I see it

38:40

, i very clearly saw it which

38:43

, like , if we want to talk about manifestation , like that's

38:45

exactly what it is , except too much focus

38:47

on it . So it's just like we've exhaust

38:49

the manifestation . but it was just

38:51

very easy , Like I just clearly saw it and like

38:54

that was my drive .

38:56

To me it's the embodiment . I'm chasing

38:58

a very big dream and it's being birthed

39:00

into the world right now And I

39:03

relate to it the same way that I'm like it's

39:05

done . I know that it's done . I don't

39:07

know how it's going to get done , i don't know who

39:09

it's going to get done with , but it

39:11

feels so alive in my being

39:13

, in my body right now , and it

39:16

sounds like that's how it was for you . It's like I

39:18

have no idea . I feel fucking crazy

39:20

that I'm doing this thing . Who am I ? But

39:23

also I can't not , it's

39:25

in me , it's alive in me . That's

39:27

how I'm feeling as I'm hearing you . It's the full

39:29

embodiment of the vision 100%

39:33

.

39:33

That's why sometimes I'm like

39:35

, fuck , i don't have my person yet , i don't

39:37

have this thing yet , i don't have the house yet

39:39

. But I'm like , but I've met that

39:41

, i've felt that version of me where

39:44

I have all those things . That's coming . I

39:46

just need to remind myself that it's coming

39:48

sometimes when it gets really hard And

39:51

when you're waver off , revisiting the feeling

39:53

is okay , it's the delusion

39:55

, that's the delusional confidence

39:58

, it's all part of that

40:00

.

40:00

Is that always there ? Do you have

40:02

moments of doubt , or how do you navigate

40:04

uncertainty when it creeps

40:06

?

40:07

up , i don't know . Sometimes I stay

40:09

deep in the uncertainty . I'm like

40:11

I'm going to be Debbie Downer and

40:14

live in this trauma because this is what

40:16

really feels familiar . So like , well

40:18

me , everything happens

40:20

to me , nothing goes right for me , and

40:22

like I'll stay there because that's comfortable

40:25

. I've been in that space , you know

40:27

the majority of my life . And then you're like

40:29

wait , wait , wait , wait . I've done work

40:32

around me . I know how to get back

40:34

to like the version where I'm in like receiving

40:37

mode , where I'm welcoming abundance

40:39

, but I'm kind to myself

40:42

when I waver off and

40:44

I don't always know it right away . So

40:46

, yeah , those are the things where I think people are

40:48

like , oh my God , like a who in day , like it's

40:50

not going to come And it's like , no , it's all part of it

40:52

. It's like getting back to that feeling

40:55

is what's important , because once you know

40:57

how to do it , once you know how to do it , Yeah

40:59

, it's incredibly important to speak

41:01

to this , though that it's not that you're never going to fall

41:03

off the rails again .

41:04

It's not that we're never going to go back into the depths of

41:07

this familiar darkness . We always

41:09

will . We're human . But it's , how long are we remaining

41:11

there ? Yeah , you know , you may have

41:13

remained there for decades , four years , for months

41:16

, whatever that is for your journey , but

41:18

the more you understand the feeling

41:20

of not that and

41:22

how you really desire to be feeling and you have

41:24

that familiarity in your body , then the

41:27

duration is shorter , right

41:29

, so you might go down there and then you're like , okay , yep

41:32

, i did that again . Now I'm coming back out

41:34

, but it might not be as

41:36

dramatic or as long of an experience , but

41:38

I think it's important to speak to that , because it's not all fucking

41:40

sunshine and rainbows , it's not like a relentless

41:42

confidence all day , every day . It's like you

41:45

have the roller coaster , but are you willing to stay

41:47

on the ride and not get off of it and

41:49

give yourself the time to feel the shit

41:51

, to remember how far you've come in

41:53

the process ?

41:54

Yeah , yeah , and that's that

41:56

. Yes , and

41:58

that's why it's what we were talking about earlier

42:01

. It's learning how to live with it , because that's always

42:03

going to be there . So you learn how

42:05

to live with it . Oh shit , like I'm in , like

42:07

this old version of myself . This feels familiar

42:09

. I'm not going to stay here for much longer than

42:11

a beat and get back to the feeling

42:13

that feels more aligned with who

42:16

I am in the world , which is

42:18

really powerful , even if you're like

42:20

in the ick of it , in

42:22

the shit of it , for like a week

42:24

and you're like , oh shit , like I'm able

42:27

to get back there that feels nice . You

42:29

know Yeah .

42:31

My client once said that , coming back into

42:33

alignment , it often feels like you

42:35

set a sailboat on autopilot , which I've only

42:38

been sailing once . So now I actually get this

42:40

. You set destination A to

42:42

B and it shows up as a straight

42:44

line on a map , but in reality it's like

42:46

oh shit , there's an island right there , or there's

42:48

a storm coming , or there's another vessel coming

42:50

, but you're still moving forward . It's

42:53

just not this linear , straight

42:55

line . So it's all about coming back to whatever

42:57

you want to call center , the North Star itself

42:59

, knowing that you're going to constantly

43:01

be veering off on the sides of it on

43:04

your quest to wherever you're headed .

43:06

I love that so much because it's so

43:08

real . Yeah , healing's not

43:10

linear at all , and once you

43:13

realize that and accept

43:15

that , it makes it so much easier . Because

43:17

I also think that resistance is pain . Whatever

43:20

we're resisting is what's causing

43:22

us pain . So , in the

43:24

acceptance of the oh

43:27

, my dreams aren't going to look perfect , my

43:29

journey to get to my dreams isn't going to be

43:31

perfect , and you don't resist

43:33

that , it makes it a lot easier to

43:35

navigate or to sail

43:38

through .

43:40

Well done , well done

43:42

. It's the writer in me

43:44

, if you will .

43:49

It's true , though I know .

43:51

Before we go , can you tell us what

43:53

this film means to you ?

43:56

Don't ask me that . yet That's

43:59

really beautiful and it makes me really emotional

44:02

. I'm a tourist

44:04

, double cancer .

44:06

I'm tripped like double cancer too .

44:08

I cried a lot . It's

44:11

the end of a version

44:13

of me that I'm

44:16

really proud to kind of

44:18

have seen it through and

44:20

I'm really ready for like the next phase

44:23

in my life . But like this

44:25

was such an important piece of

44:27

arriving at a

44:31

really special place , of owning

44:33

my authenticity , and this

44:35

movie was like accompanying

44:37

me on that journey , so like

44:39

everyone that loved me throughout . It

44:42

is reflected in the

44:44

movie because they're pieces of me So

44:47

yeah , it's

44:50

like the vessel for your arrival itself

44:52

.

44:53

Yeah .

44:54

And it's just like that . It's sort of like a buoy .

44:57

So we're going to talk about sailing . We're going to just

45:00

talk about sailing the rest of the time .

45:02

I think it's just so perfect to

45:04

bring you back to sailing . It's like

45:07

a buoy that turned me on

45:09

your sail And it's like you

45:11

know , it took me a long time to put that one there

45:13

, So I'm really proud of it .

45:16

How can people see it ? When does it come out ?

45:18

It comes out this summer . It comes out

45:20

this summer , it will be

45:23

in theaters across the country and it'll

45:25

have an international release as well , so

45:28

it'll be available for people to see

45:30

. I can't wait .

45:31

I'm so excited . I can't

45:33

wait . Yeah , we are

45:35

so grateful . Thank you for taking the

45:38

time and being so generous

45:41

and vulnerable and wise

45:44

and dealing with our tech issues

45:47

and embracing

45:49

the mess right . Everything that happened

45:51

in the last hour just encompasses all of that

45:53

right .

45:54

So for sure . I mean

45:56

, at no point was I like stressed out

45:58

about it , it was like it's just like it makes

46:00

sense . So thank you , thank you for having me .

46:03

And I just want to thank you for your delusional confidence , because

46:05

you're a vision holder . You're

46:07

a vision holder for all of us and you know

46:09

to not give up , to keep going and

46:11

to be brave and to have that relentless

46:14

pursuit of a bigger dream , and you're

46:16

the type of woman I want to be surrounded by . I want

46:18

to have these type of women in the room together

46:20

where we're like sometimes we feel fucking

46:23

nuts , but we have this like crazy

46:25

confidence that we

46:27

had this dream place inside of our soul for a reason

46:30

and we're not going to stop And it might not make

46:32

sense along the path , but I just want to thank you for

46:34

your courage because it's really it means

46:36

a lot .

46:37

Likewise , thank you guys for holding so much beautiful

46:39

space and it is really empowering . It's

46:41

hard being a woman , but also it's

46:44

as hard as we make it . So

46:46

the world is sort of like everything's stacked

46:48

against us . But if we

46:51

sort of like sail

46:53

right to that Back

46:57

to what we just said once , you know it's going to be

46:59

hard . It just it really does make it easier

47:01

, and having women beside

47:03

you is really important .

47:04

I also just want to reflect that your

47:08

willingness to be as brave

47:10

as you have been . It brings

47:12

us collectively closer to truth

47:14

.

47:15

Well , that's really powerful

47:18

, thank you .

47:19

Yeah , and I feel really grateful .

47:21

Thank you . Thank you , yay

47:24

, all right , we did it , we did it .

47:27

Hey there Rebels .

47:37

If you enjoyed this podcast , we would love

47:39

your support . In a few quick ways . You

47:46

can also leave us a review .