0:00

If you enjoy this episode , we would love it if

0:02

you would leave us a review , give us a follow

0:04

or a like and share it with your friends . Thanks

0:07

, rebels .

0:47

This is the Inner Rebel podcast

0:49

, so

0:59

I wanted to bring Arianne

1:01

on because you're a dear friend of mine and

1:03

a really inspiring mom

1:06

and professional woman and what you've been

1:08

able to accomplish is

1:11

incredible , and I know that it takes a lot

1:13

to get to where you have gotten , so

1:15

I'm excited to share you with

1:17

our people . So Arianne is a business leader . She's a

1:19

mom of two , a lover

1:21

of nature and a costume party

1:23

enthusiast . Woo Facts

1:28

it's very true . She lives in

1:30

Golden we live in the same place and she has

1:32

her two children , sam and Quinn , and

1:34

her extremely patient husband , andrew

1:37

. He is so lovely . Arianne leads

1:39

the digital strategy and execution of

1:41

a multi-billion dollar retail business

1:43

and has recently stepped into an executive global

1:46

leadership role , which we get to celebrate today

1:48

because this is hot off the presses , and

1:51

her special talents include immaculate

1:53

retention of every 90s hip-hop song lyric

1:55

and the ability to turn any

1:57

party into a dance party and it's very

1:59

true things .

2:01

Really valuable skills .

2:03

What was your favorite costume that you've ever worn

2:05

?

2:06

Oh , my goodness , this

2:08

is such a challenging question and we only have an hour

2:10

. I would say the

2:12

most fun for me have been the family costume

2:14

, so my husband and I used to go real hard at Halloween

2:16

back before we had kids , and

2:19

so I had some really good ones then .

2:20

Is this how you know he was the one ?

2:22

This was . The defining moment in our relationship was

2:24

when he dressed up as the Kool-Aid man and

2:27

came busting into a party saying , oh yeah

2:30

, that's for me , that's for me , that's

2:32

my guy . That was my favorite costume

2:34

he ever wore , but I would say just bringing

2:36

it full circle to our family . So was it two years

2:38

ago , yeah . So

2:41

we had this epic Halloween party as a neighborhood and

2:44

we dressed as Mary Poppins . I

2:47

was Mary Poppins , obviously , and then my children were

2:49

like street urchins . They were the chimney sweeps

2:51

. My whole family was like covered in , so I had this delightful

2:54

Mary Poppins costume , so I

2:56

just loved like the family unit together .

2:58

I also have to say they were waist management

3:00

, which I thought is what you're

3:02

going to say , and her little , cutest

3:04

little daughter in the whole world was the inspiration

3:07

for the entire costume and she was like a little

3:09

rat .

3:10

She was a disgusting rat and

3:12

it was . That costume was because

3:14

she wanted to be a rat . She was four

3:16

years old and we're like Quinn , what do you want to be ? And

3:18

her best friend , grace , is Belle from Beauty and

3:20

the Beast and all these darling little princesses and

3:22

she's like nah , I'm going to be a rat .

3:24

She was a good rat too , it was a great rat Really good

3:26

, big , long tail , filthy little picture

3:28

.

3:29

Yeah , that was a good one . So we were a trash family

3:31

. We were a family of trash bandits that year .

3:34

And this is what it takes to be an

3:36

executive woman in the corporate world

3:38

, keeping it real .

3:41

We have a question that we like to start out asking

3:43

our guests , because it's one thing to hear

3:45

your bio and all of

3:47

the things that you've accomplished , but I'm

3:49

interested in how you

3:52

see yourself and how you

3:54

see your journey . So

3:56

can you tell us who are

3:58

you and how is that different

4:00

from who you maybe thought

4:03

or were told you were supposed to be

4:05

?

4:05

Let me just say there's a game that some of my girlfriends and

4:07

I play and it's how do I see you

4:09

, how do you see yourself , how do

4:11

you want to be seen ? And it's like among

4:14

the most vulnerable and revealing games , and

4:16

it requires so much self reflection and it also

4:18

then requires your friends to play back

4:20

to you how they see you . And so this question

4:22

is both so deep

4:24

for me and important and also so challenging

4:27

. But I've , you know , done a lot of

4:29

self reflection over time and thought about this a lot , and

4:31

I think I see myself as a person who's dynamically

4:34

on the path to becoming the

4:36

same , but a better version , and just a

4:38

constant evolution and work in progress , and

4:41

generally someone who just has a lot of enthusiasm and

4:43

zest for life , even for things like

4:45

work , like my work is a big part of my life

4:48

and that's because I genuinely love it , which

4:50

is kind of weird . A lot of things lighten me up

4:52

, so that's the costumes .

4:53

And then that shell , yes , yes .

4:55

And I think we all have such unique you know the

4:57

circumstances of our childhood , obviously formulator

5:00

self concept . So I was an only child

5:02

. I grew up in Alaska . My mom

5:04

was a teacher and then a librarian , my dad

5:07

was a geologist and engineer . I

5:09

kind of had a unique existence in that space . I

5:11

think Alaska like there are very

5:13

few social norms there that are the same

5:16

as they are here . That's

5:18

probably changed now . But the connectivity of

5:20

life there it's isolated , there's

5:22

no private school , there's no country club , there's

5:24

no people wearing monograms . You

5:27

show up differently there and so I

5:29

think I sometimes undervalue

5:31

maybe what that did For

5:33

my experience because socially there was just a very different

5:35

mindset and I think

5:37

there's also a unique type of person who was

5:39

up there . Right , my parents . They weren't born there , they went

5:42

there seeking adventure and just

5:44

wanted this life . That was unique and different . I

5:47

think I sometimes undervalue that . I don't think about it that much

5:49

because we all just had our own existence and you know . But

5:51

if I reflect on my childhood and who I was supposed to

5:54

be , what's actually pretty cool is

5:56

I feel like I've contemplated this

5:58

and I cannot feel that there was a projection

6:00

to say that this is who you are

6:02

and this is what we expect of you . That's great

6:04

. Shout out mom , dad . That

6:07

persisted through . Like my journey of who I thought

6:09

I was going to be high school to college

6:12

, to early career vacillated quite a bit , like

6:14

I look at myself now in this

6:16

very capitalist executive role

6:19

. And when I came out of college

6:21

I was like I'm going to work for a nonprofit . I studied

6:23

organizational communication . I had all of

6:25

these different kind of opinions of who I would

6:27

be and literally I feel like my parents were

6:29

like okay , okay

6:31

. No no no , Like all right , I went to school

6:33

in upstate New York . I went really far away . I

6:35

studied in Europe . I mean , I was our only child . I

6:37

think of this now as a parent . It was never about them

6:39

. It was never about their expectations

6:41

. It was like okay , well , we're here for you , you know

6:43

.

6:44

And I want to actually interject something too , because I think so often it

6:46

can be their fears . The projection

6:49

can be the fears , right . Like oh my child's going so

6:51

far away . I'm scared . So

6:53

, therefore , I'm going to put that over on you

6:55

right so . I also . It seems like they did

6:57

a fantastic job of not putting . If

6:59

they had them , which I'm sure you know , you're

7:01

a parent of course you have them , but not making it

7:03

yours Right , and I think as a child

7:06

you cannot even contemplate or understand

7:08

what fears your parents might have .

7:09

No , you don't grasp it right . I

7:12

had no sense that they might be uncomfortable if I didn't call for several weeks while I

7:14

was in Europe , and then there was nothing

7:16

that was encroaching on the sides to say like well , here are your parameters

7:18

, here's your box right , and I can just say the

7:20

concept of who I was going to become . Generally

7:23

, I felt like I was allowed to forge a

7:25

path and just become whatever

7:28

would be right , and that's an interesting theme too

7:30

, the support theme .

7:32

right , this is like a segue , but we talk about

7:34

safety and being with safe people

7:37

. I would say I give you shit , but you're discerning

7:39

and you have a good spidey

7:41

sense about people and you can tell when somebody

7:44

feels safe or not . What

7:46

are your thoughts on the level of support that you've been able to accept

7:49

and have and continue to cultivate

7:51

?

7:52

Yeah , I think I simultaneously

7:54

have support that I've taken for granted and

7:56

I think starting with parents right Like being a little

7:58

child , you kind of just get it right . In the areas

8:00

of my life where I'm closest

8:03

to people I've willingly accepted support

8:05

and maybe even expected it unduly

8:07

just to be real

8:09

, and have willingly received that

8:11

. Sometimes , in extending the ask

8:14

for support to a broader network , I've had discomfort

8:16

with that and I've learned a lot actually even from

8:18

the neighborhood network here , watching

8:20

the relationships between people and

8:22

the ease to like ask

8:24

for help in the most simple ways and

8:27

that has taught me a lot and seeing

8:30

this group of women who so

8:32

easily and willingly supports one another

8:35

in a way that's very generous . There's

8:37

not an expectation of reciprocity

8:39

, it's almost that will come around in due time , right

8:41

, and so I think I am still learning

8:44

a lot about community and what that means

8:46

.

8:46

What taught you to be discerning ? Have you always been

8:48

that way , yeah , or did you have

8:50

to learn the hard ?

8:51

way . No . What has taught

8:54

me to be discerning has been

8:56

, I would say , I've been very

8:58

lucky to experience some

9:01

friendships that are incredibly

9:03

powerful , and I would say there's a couple of defining qualities

9:05

about the people who I've found really tight

9:07

friendships with , and those people are very secure

9:10

in themselves . So I would say like a sense

9:12

of self-awareness and security

9:14

, and then , second to that , the ability to self-reflect

9:16

the people who are able to self-reflect , and

9:19

I think I've always had some very

9:21

deep friendships . But honestly , I think

9:23

, like COVID and 2020 and

9:25

then the simultaneous acceleration of my career

9:27

, those things in intersection have been

9:30

incredibly powerful , because COVID

9:32

was the ultimate edit . It was like

9:35

, you know , you had to really hone

9:37

in on these relationships that were special and precious

9:40

and lean into them , and I really love that

9:42

. And then I think , as my career has accelerated

9:45

and I've felt the depth of some of these very

9:47

important friendships , I've kind of been

9:49

like I'm going to reserve space for the most important

9:51

things and the things that are the most valuable , and

9:54

I think in our lives , like the ability to prioritize

9:56

and edit and give

9:58

attention to the things that bring the most value

10:01

. That lesson applies over and over and over again . And

10:04

so , in friendships being discerning

10:06

, I have been fortunate enough

10:09

to experience friendships of great

10:11

depth and incredible meaning and

10:13

have then been like , yeah , I'm just going to have more of that

10:15

. Like I just , I'd rather just have more

10:17

of that . Right , give me more of that , I'd like

10:19

that . Yeah , so I think those things have really contributed

10:21

.

10:22

Well , I'm curious when did you start identifying as

10:25

a leader ? And I know there's an

10:27

evolution always with that , but I'm curious

10:29

is that something that you grew up , having that

10:31

identity , or is that something that you've evolved

10:33

into as you've progressed in

10:35

life ?

10:37

Yeah , I think I had two key traits

10:39

growing up that were somewhat

10:42

self-identified , and then also I had these formative

10:44

experiences that identified them , maybe

10:46

showed them to me , and

10:48

they're kind of conflicting traits . So the first was just like

10:50

innate natural leadership , and

10:53

the other was that I was overly sensitive

10:55

. I had this narrative from my family

10:57

and my mom's theory was I had a traumatic birth and

11:00

so that made me overly sensitive

11:02

, apparently that's . There's a correlation , pause

11:04

, she's a reflector , a reflector

11:07

. Yeah , so that's why oh

11:09

wow , y'all can tell me more about what that means . I just I

11:11

know it .

11:11

I'm still learning , jess is going to dive into that , but I

11:13

wanted to answer that because I know Jess's

11:15

head is going to be like okay , great , I'm excited to hear about

11:17

that .

11:18

I don't know if we have time to dive into that right now

11:20

, but we don't . I'm going to be here all night .

11:22

So , yeah , I had this innate leadership and the overly

11:24

sensitive part . I remember one time as a

11:27

kid finding this report card and

11:29

they had asked for parent feedback and my mom had

11:31

called me extremely sensitive

11:33

and when I read that I cried no

11:35

, I'm not Cause . I was like I'm not too sensitive

11:38

and like I cried so , okay , very

11:40

, very sensitive , which I think has evolved over time . I do feel

11:42

deeply feeling , but I feel very

11:44

level in the way I express my emotion , but

11:46

I do , I think , have a sensitivity

11:48

to my own emotion and maybe to others emotions

11:51

. And then the second part of it is just

11:53

the leadership piece is . I actually don't

11:55

even remember a moment in time where I didn't feel like

11:57

a leader . I have never had any challenge

12:00

or question or thought of that .

12:02

But what does that mean to you ? What does it feel

12:05

like to be a leader ?

12:06

Oh , we don't exist in the surface in this

12:08

conversation .

12:09

Yeah , it feels like

12:11

a deep sense of confidence

12:14

and willingness to

12:16

set a path . Not at all that I necessarily

12:19

have all the answers , but I have the confidence

12:21

and ability to move in a direction and

12:24

to rally people toward that direction

12:26

. I think like my definition of leadership

12:28

and the leader I want to be and the leader I hope to be

12:30

in . The leader I think I am is very much about

12:32

collectivism and being able to face

12:34

the fear or the trepidation of taking

12:37

the first step right and bring others along

12:39

with me .

12:39

And how has that ? Because obviously

12:41

now you're literally a global leader

12:44

and I'm curious

12:46

what are some of the things you've had to overcome to step

12:48

into that level of

12:51

leadership ? So what are some of the things

12:53

that , on your journey to

12:55

the top , what are you navigating

12:57

inside of your own mind ?

12:59

First , I would say that the journey is

13:01

ongoing and I think you obviously know

13:03

that . But I think my early perception

13:05

was you practice it , you

13:07

gain the skills , you get to this place and

13:09

you look up at that place and you go , oh , they've mastered it

13:11

. and mastery must feel so different and I think

13:13

the number one thing I would say is that

13:15

on a daily basis , I'm doing

13:17

things . Now that would have seemed so scary

13:20

, and sometimes they are still scary

13:22

, and I think I would just dispel the myth

13:24

that you get to this place and all of a sudden don't have the

13:26

self-doubt . I think that's one of the most important realizations

13:28

is that we all live with it constantly and if you don't

13:30

, maybe you're not being very self-reflective

13:32

, right , because to me that's a part of awareness

13:34

is like , of course , I always had more room for growth

13:37

. I think that self-doubt is ongoing . I

13:39

think that practice lends itself to something

13:41

. You become more comfortable in situations that

13:44

previously gave you anxiety . I

13:46

think also like realizing the humanness

13:49

of everyone around you , other leaders , like

13:51

now . I've had practice being in rooms with

13:54

people who are very well established , very

13:56

successful , they have really high positions of power

13:59

, and I'm like the more exposure we get to that

14:01

, the more you're like oh , these

14:03

are just people , I'm this person , I am these people

14:05

, right , and so it's

14:07

acclimating to the normalness of

14:10

humans and human nature and really just

14:12

rooting ourselves in our similarities and that and

14:15

that , I think , has made it for me a lot less

14:17

intimidating has removed some self-doubt

14:19

has given me comfort and I think also

14:22

I've now , as a leader , been in

14:24

positions where , from a tactical

14:26

skill perspective , I had no business

14:28

being there . Like I've stepped into leadership roles

14:30

where I didn't have the skills and

14:33

previously that made me self-conscious

14:36

and uncomfortable . But now that I've gone

14:38

through it I'm like , oh , actually

14:40

, maybe it's okay to acknowledge that I don't

14:42

have those skills , but here's the skills

14:44

I do have , here's what I do possess , here's what I know

14:46

I'm capable of in having this simultaneous knowledge

14:49

of . Here's maybe where I need to learn and

14:51

here's maybe what I bring to the table and

14:53

being comfortable with those things

14:55

.

14:56

And I think that that has helped a lot . I

14:58

love what you just said because one myth

15:00

that I know I have had to dispel

15:02

in myself growing up

15:04

was this idea that I had

15:07

to fix myself before

15:09

my dreams could come to fruition . Somehow

15:12

I had to reach this perfection

15:15

and have all the answers , and

15:17

it's taken years to unravel

15:20

that . So I love , and it's so true

15:22

, that there are so many people in

15:24

all kinds of positions of success

15:27

and power who are

15:30

just as insecure and

15:32

have just as many fears and

15:34

so many moments of not knowing . But

15:36

I do think there might be a distinction

15:39

between how they meet those

15:41

moments . So I'm curious for

15:43

you in those moments of I'm

15:46

unprepared for this , I don't know what I'm doing

15:48

, how did you

15:50

find the courage or

15:53

strength inside of you to rise up and meet

15:55

that challenge ?

15:56

Yeah Well , I think I can say

15:58

that I didn't always do it gracefully . I

16:01

think I can say that I , over time , have done

16:03

it with self-consciousness and

16:06

relied more on intellect

16:08

or cognitive ability or

16:10

analytics or whatever you know , have fallen back on

16:12

things that are a little more hard and

16:14

straightforward to

16:16

kind of muscle through . And I think actually

16:19

, as I've become a higher level

16:21

leader , as I've matured in that leadership ability

16:23

, it's become a lot more vulnerable and it's

16:25

become a lot more real and a lot

16:28

, in some ways , a lot less polished

16:30

, which actually I think works better

16:32

. I think it's more relatable . But

16:34

I also I got to see you know certain

16:36

people in my life who are leaders . I

16:39

got to see them demonstrate that and I got to feel

16:41

what I really gravitated toward and what was really

16:43

attractive to me , and I've just

16:45

learned a lot by watching and observing

16:47

and then reflecting on how that's made me feel , and

16:50

I've thought a lot about how do I want to make other people feel

16:52

right ? And so part of that is also removing yourself

16:55

from it and thinking I think we're I

16:57

mean obviously we're also self

16:59

obsessed , because we're concerned about

17:01

how others are perceiving us and

17:03

what are they going to think of me and then

17:05

you start to realize , well , that's maybe not what

17:07

they're thinking . They're thinking how am I going to make

17:09

these people feel ? So I think that reframe and

17:11

I think the ability to observe others

17:14

in those positions and model those behaviors

17:16

and learn . And I think early in my

17:18

career I was a young female manager

17:21

and that brought a

17:23

lot of self consciousness . And I was joking

17:25

with a friend recently . I was like there's this tipping

17:27

point , from when you feel like you're too young

17:29

to lead , especially as a woman , you feel like you're too young

17:31

and then all of a sudden it's like wait a minute , maybe I'm not young anymore

17:34

and we're joking about that sweet spot

17:36

and she's like it's like an avocado

17:38

. A woman and a

17:40

female leader is like an avocado and I was

17:42

like that's kind of dark .

17:45

You have like a week before you die .

17:47

Yeah , it's like now you're like still

17:49

young enough to be , you know , compelling , and

17:51

then you just start to tip and so , anyway , that's a

17:53

joke . Don't think that's real . But I

17:55

do think . Being young , I

17:58

felt so conscious of that and I feel like now I'm

18:00

still young-ish , but I've been around

18:02

the block . I feel , you

18:04

know , just inherently , a little more confidence

18:07

in the actual skills and experience I have . But

18:09

I didn't always do it right and it is a constant

18:11

process of watching and learning and

18:13

modeling and recognizing

18:15

that it's not all about me , and people care less about that . They care

18:17

about how you're going to make them feel , how you support

18:19

them . What is it that you're going to do collectively

18:22

versus just for yourself ?

18:23

It's interesting because there's these themes that I think come

18:26

out , which it doesn't surprise you

18:28

, but I love that it's happening of finding the people that

18:30

are showing you how you

18:32

want to be , like the way in which you feel , where

18:34

it guides you towards these people and you're

18:36

like okay , I love the way that person

18:38

leads Imperfectly and shows a little

18:40

bit of mess and is vulnerable and still

18:43

holds authority , and so therefore , it's

18:45

possible . I have proof .

18:46

Yeah , we need to see it , to believe it .

18:49

Absolutely , and I always think that's one of the first

18:51

steps when you have a dream , where you have a vision , is

18:53

go find somebody that has some version of

18:55

the thing that you want , because you need

18:57

to get your brain on board with the fact that

18:59

it's actually possible . And then the other

19:01

thing I really notice in your share

19:03

is the tactical , logical

19:06

. That side of things is like a real will

19:08

call it a more masculine way of approaching leadership

19:10

. Right , and I loved your share

19:12

of the evolution of well , I relied on these

19:14

like tangible , safe , black

19:16

and white things , and then I realized that

19:19

I could be vulnerable , I could start to embrace

19:21

some of these traits of Compassion

19:23

and nurturing , and we talked about the feminine

19:25

a lot on here . It's not necessarily like Woman

19:28

and man , but it's this energy to

19:30

embody and I think that is such a

19:32

sweet spot as a leader . When you can bring those

19:34

two worlds together , it can be like a

19:36

total human . And I'm curious

19:38

because you're in a very male dominated

19:40

industry . So how

19:42

is that been , being in a male dominated industry

19:44

and to kind of parlay it with the

19:47

previous thought and Learning

19:49

to simultaneously embrace

19:51

the more feminine sides of yourself While

19:54

being in a very male dominated industry

19:56

. What has that experience ?

19:57

been like for you . This is also

19:59

been obviously a journey and I

20:02

would say Culture has changed

20:04

since the start of my career . Yeah , I

20:06

go back in time and I reflect with one of my

20:08

girlfriends on our experience right out of

20:10

college and what that was like and it

20:12

was so normalized then and I can't believe it , like I

20:14

can't believe that was my experience and I work

20:16

today with mostly

20:18

a group of men . I work with some phenomenal women

20:21

leaders as well , but my peers

20:23

today are mostly men and I

20:26

have such a great environment that I work in . I feel

20:28

so Supported . There are those

20:30

little moments in time where I go Felt

20:33

a little weird , you know , but I feel so supported and

20:35

actually I didn't realize that until most recently . I went on

20:37

this international trip and was surrounded by

20:39

Some new people

20:41

and had some experiences where I was like , oh shit

20:44

, like this still , there's still some weird stuff out there

20:46

, but I'm grateful that I'm surrounded by a

20:48

very supportive male environment . I still have these

20:50

moments where I feel other . There

20:53

was a moment recently when I hopped

20:55

on to a call and I had just come from I

20:57

was Supporting our African-American

20:59

ERG group on a very traumatic experience

21:01

and I stepped into this call and it was like all business

21:03

. This call was like talking about Monday results

21:06

. It was my turn to speak and I was choked

21:08

up and I was like I'm sorry , I was just on this other

21:10

call . I was in tears so I kind of just muscled

21:12

through it , right or wrong . But

21:14

I took a moment first to say hey , here's where I was

21:16

, here's what's going on , here's why there's

21:18

a lot of emotion right now . And I got

21:21

through the call . And then at the end of it I had

21:23

one of our female VP's messaged

21:25

me and she said I could tell you were really working hard

21:27

to get through that and she's

21:29

like I'm really grateful , I'm really grateful that you showed up at

21:31

the same thing , and me also , is like I

21:33

appreciate when someone says the thing they're thinking and they

21:35

say it out loud . Yeah , it's a good lesson , because that

21:37

meant so much to me that she did that at any kind of self-consciousness

21:40

. I felt about stepping into that environment , like

21:42

she just neutralized that , because I was like if one

21:44

person feels that way , then I'm okay , I'm okay

21:46

. So there's a lot to that . But the

21:48

other thing I would say that's been very powerful for me

21:50

in my career in male

21:53

dominated businesses is humor , and you

21:55

know this . I like we're so playful . But humor

21:57

is just the great equalizer and

21:59

I feel like I just operate on this

22:01

Expectation that everybody is probably

22:04

trying to do their best , probably has the

22:06

best intentions , and I feel like

22:08

if you can bring humor to it then

22:10

you can neutralize a lot of situations

22:12

, right . So if there's something where I

22:14

feel a little out of sorts about

22:16

it or I feel a little other , even humor

22:19

there can , I think , bring some levity to

22:21

the situation and allow you to vocalize things that

22:23

you know Could be a little more difficult otherwise . So

22:26

I really love humor as a tool in business

22:28

and in life and just in general , you know

22:30

. So One way to deal

22:32

with it .

22:32

Does it frustrate you that you have to deal with

22:34

it at all , though , that you need to have

22:36

those tools in your tool belt ?

22:39

Of course . However , I also recognize

22:41

that we all have different lived experiences

22:43

. I have empathy for the fact that you

22:45

can only truly relate to your own

22:48

lived experience , and so I think a

22:50

lot about the circumstances of the people around

22:52

me , my peers . I just think a lot

22:54

of them are operating with the best intent possible and as long

22:56

as I feel like that intention is there , then

22:58

like , I think we move forward on that basis

23:00

right , like we can't necessarily

23:03

be disappointed that someone has only lived in

23:06

a certain body in a certain way . That's just what it is .

23:07

So it's how do we move forward together , you know , yeah

23:09

, to me it seems like

23:12

there's this innate and very natural

23:14

confidence to you . You have such a deep

23:16

self-awareness and

23:18

seem to really lean in and

23:20

Trust your natural abilities and your

23:22

skills , and you have all the support and all

23:24

these wonderful friendships around you . What do you feel

23:27

your biggest life lesson

23:29

has been ? If we get into that self-doubt

23:32

piece , yeah , what is the thing that just gnaws

23:34

at you that you're still working

23:36

through .

23:36

So Mo mentioned chief right

23:39

, so being a part of a peer network , and then I also

23:41

had the opportunity to do some executive coaching

23:43

within the last year or so , and

23:45

so We've talked a little bit about confidence

23:48

and all that . But one of the areas of

23:50

opportunity that I've learned a lot about in the last year

23:52

has been , like I'm naturally

23:55

, I'm a pleaser , I'm an achiever and

23:57

I'm a pleaser , and so those things

24:00

have been great fuel For

24:03

success . You know , quote unquote but

24:05

they also drive behaviors

24:07

around busyness and efficiency

24:10

and performance . And Up

24:12

until like literally a year ago

24:14

, I would emphasize those qualities

24:17

in myself , like just this , like drive

24:19

and efficiency , and that was

24:21

ultimate value to me . It was like that's the value

24:24

equation , this achievement , this performance

24:26

, like that's what I bring to the table . And

24:29

then the funny thing is I look at my relationship

24:31

with my husband , for example . That's not what he values

24:33

about me . You reflect on like well , what are the people in

24:35

my inner circle care the most about me

24:37

? Like , actually it's not these things that I

24:39

think are my most Valuable attributes

24:42

. And so I went into this process of coaching

24:44

and I took on a coach because theoretically

24:46

I wanted to grow my Executive

24:50

presence and my ability to influence

24:52

in business , whatever . But I also

24:54

felt my pull toward this specific coach

24:56

in this person , in a very intuitive kind of like

24:58

heart led way . So I sat down with her

25:00

virtually for this first coaching session and she

25:02

was like all right , I want you to sit in your body , I'm

25:05

gonna sit in stillness . And I want you to sit in your body

25:07

, man , like I'm

25:09

here to accelerate . And

25:13

she's like , yeah , maybe you

25:15

should just sit in silence , shout

25:17

out , lizzie Alberg , and so , and

25:19

learning that still .

25:20

What did that do for you ? What did

25:22

that do ?

25:23

Oh , freaked me out so

25:26

weird .

25:26

And first I was like hey , Can

25:29

I like sit still but also like

25:31

kick ass Officially

25:33

, like I still . I'm still trying to reconcile . But

25:35

it was this beautiful new philosophy and I know

25:38

you talk about this a lot but this beautiful

25:40

new philosophy Actually it's not always

25:42

a push . In that stillness , in that silence

25:44

, actually , that's maybe where you'll gain the most

25:46

value and self-reflection . And

25:48

listen , I'm saying this but I'm

25:50

like still trying to believe it .

25:52

It's a real well again . It's the proof

25:55

right , and I still even

25:57

though I've had a lot of proof and I actually

25:59

have a lot of vision holders in my life

26:01

that show me that they can lead in this more

26:03

feminine way and you can create spaciousness , because

26:05

I'm also a super high achiever like

26:07

love doing and Just

26:10

makes one of all my spreadsheets . I am

26:12

an executor extraordinary and

26:14

Bringing that part in has been one

26:16

of the most uncomfortable and valuable

26:19

things that I have ever started to integrate

26:21

into my life and it's a total rewiring of

26:23

your nervous system to feel

26:25

safe in the slowness , to feel safe in

26:27

the non doing , to rewrite those

26:29

deeply rooted beliefs that my value

26:32

is in my Productivity

26:34

, my accomplishments , achievement , my title

26:36

, yeah , yeah , and that's just the

26:39

way our culture is . Our culture is like achieve

26:41

, achieve , achieve and that's what makes you lovable

26:43

. And I think men and women are craving a

26:45

rewrite of that story and I really know that women

26:48

are craving a rewrite of that story of what

26:50

else actually gives me my value and

26:52

it's like , well , I don't even have to do anything for that

26:54

, like that is a non earning thing

26:56

.

26:57

I've sort of already answered it , because I was interested

27:00

when you were talking about your default

27:02

kind of going into the kind of

27:04

masculine type , a analytical

27:06

side in confronting challenges

27:09

at work . I was going to ask whether

27:11

surrendering or leaning into

27:13

the , you know , like Melissa said , we know

27:15

it's not masculine , feminine in terms of gender

27:18

, but the feminine energy , that more surrendered

27:20

energy , or your softer energy , letting yourself

27:22

cry right , your empathy , yeah

27:24

, has that also been a challenge in

27:26

your personal life ? Has that been like a

27:29

similar , like a parallel journey for

27:31

you privately as

27:33

well as in your work , or did you sort of have this

27:35

separation between the two realms

27:37

?

27:37

Yeah , I actually think the surrender

27:40

and the stillness are

27:42

great value adds to my personal

27:44

life and or would be even

27:46

greater to lean into those Like I think about

27:48

in my marriage , in

27:51

my relationships . It's a very powerful

27:53

place where those things matter

27:55

, right . I think they matter in the workplace

27:57

too , right . I think for people

27:59

to see you have the capacity to do

28:01

that and to lead

28:03

with that is worthwhile and allows

28:06

other people the freedom to do it . But

28:08

I think that I've just in the past undervalued it

28:10

and when I reflect on my personal

28:12

life and my relationships there that go

28:14

, go , go and that crush it , it's like

28:16

no that's not really what's going to add

28:19

value and depth in those places

28:21

, right ?

28:21

So I think that's an ongoing exercise to

28:24

say how do I bring that , how do I practice that

28:26

and how do I think about the value that adds at

28:28

home , when I think it's always so interesting because and

28:30

this is what I always find in the body

28:32

of work I do with my clients is I

28:34

get to be this person here and I get to be this person

28:36

here and this is work me and this is home

28:38

me and this is this , and there

28:40

can be such a disconnect . I think this

28:42

is where a lot of anxiety lies in certain

28:45

parts of me are not okay and certain

28:47

parts of me have to be hidden , and I think the

28:49

thing that I love the most and this is

28:51

something I've personally experienced is a softening

28:54

into the strength

28:56

, and the vulnerability becomes

28:58

the superpower when done

29:01

thoughtfully . You know you're not just going to come in and

29:03

like a puddle of yourself everywhere you go right

29:05

, but when you allow yourself , when you're having those

29:07

moments , to actually say the

29:09

thing and you might be the first person

29:11

anyone has ever seen do that , that

29:13

, I think , is a superpower

29:15

of women . We have this innate

29:17

ability to have the feelings , to be

29:20

compassionate and the more in

29:22

which we can converge our personal

29:24

self with our work self and

29:26

be a whole woman everywhere

29:28

. I feel like that . That is the

29:30

dream . Personally , and as I was hearing

29:33

you talk , you're like , well , I could do this at home

29:35

, and it was even like you were separating them

29:37

, even in the way in which you described it , which is perfectly

29:39

normal . But are there other parts that you're like

29:41

I can't actually bring this to work . This is a

29:43

totally separate part of me that has to be hidden .

29:46

I feel less and less that way and I think

29:48

also because our work lives have started

29:50

to blend into our home lives and there's no longer

29:52

a wall , and so I think that , plus

29:54

aging into it and having

29:56

a maturity of leadership and feeling more comfortable and confident

29:59

with that , I think it's also it brings me to

30:01

tears . I like one thing I'll just say I'm

30:03

an easy crier and like I'm fine with that , but

30:05

I am overly sensitive for my past

30:07

personal narrative . But like , actually I really like to own that

30:10

. So you were like bringing me to tears with that because it just felt

30:12

so moved by it . And I think that , more and more , the realization

30:14

that empathy and vulnerability are superpowers

30:16

is so important . And

30:18

I think , yes , like women innately possess

30:20

those capabilities , and I also

30:23

feel like we need

30:25

to empower and enable men to possess those capabilities

30:27

because they are capable of it

30:29

. I'm a huge feminist and a part

30:32

of that is empowering men to

30:34

be themselves as well , and I think that that's

30:36

the flip side too . It is like we need to allow women

30:39

to be themselves and we need to allow men to be themselves , and men

30:41

have been so hindered by this version

30:43

of masculinity that doesn't allow for vulnerability

30:45

and empathy . So to me it's like , yes

30:47

, how can we , as women , show up and

30:50

demonstrate that superpower and how can we

30:52

also welcome and invite that and create a culture where

30:54

masculinity is also inclusive

30:57

of those values ? And

30:59

that's the flip side of it and that's

31:01

where I think , if we only focus on

31:03

women having that superpower

31:05

, we diminish men's capability

31:08

to live these full , rich lives and also for all of us

31:10

to then rise together . But

31:12

I think that more and more vulnerability

31:14

and empathy are like absolutely

31:16

the most important forms of connection across any

31:19

of our relationships , any physical spaces

31:21

we exist . But I love your observation that like

31:23

, yeah , making this distinction , there's

31:26

this self and here's that self , and more and more I'm

31:28

hoping to move toward a space where , you

31:30

know , within some bounds of

31:32

course , but

31:35

you are pretty .

31:36

I feel like you're super playful , at least I mean

31:38

the pictures you sent me from work , like you bringing that

31:40

playful spirit , you're not trying to be like this buttoned

31:42

up black suit . You wear your

31:44

cute white dress and your Nike shoes and

31:46

you're showing up on stage in a very different

31:48

way . What was the conference you spoke at ?

31:50

It was at the National Retail Federation

31:53

. So she wears .

31:54

I mean I love that you showed

31:56

up in your authenticity , because I wear my earrings

31:58

and my colors and all the things , and I love

32:00

that you bring your own style and your own flair

32:02

and you're not trying to do the black suit thing

32:04

and and like fit into that box . And

32:07

so I think even in that way you're showing up in

32:10

a different way than maybe

32:12

we've seen other leaders show up .

32:14

And you know what I found ? Actually , I have a hilarious

32:16

gift I'm going to show you from this past weekend

32:18

after this , because it's a photo of

32:20

it was a boomerang and it's me and these four

32:23

or five guys and they're all in like a black polo and I'm in

32:25

the front of the screen dress . None of them are booming , by

32:27

the way , when the boomerang goes and I'm like doing this and

32:31

I feel like more and more , though I think

32:33

if you show up like that , I think it's welcomed

32:35

.

32:35

Like I think , if you're in the right .

32:36

I mean obviously not in every environment , but more and

32:39

more . It's like if you're willing to do that and

32:41

be the one to just kind of bust that up like I think

32:43

it's welcomed and invited and I think within like

32:45

respectful boundaries , like you can do

32:47

that and actually like really make things

32:49

more fun for everyone , right ? So

32:52

that's my part of my ambition right now is to show

32:54

up like that and again back to like humor and

32:56

fun and all of us want to have more joy , so

32:58

finding ways to do that .

33:01

But going back to leadership , so much

33:03

of leadership is how you show up

33:05

, because you are setting the tone and you're setting

33:07

the standard right . So you bringing

33:10

authenticity and play and

33:12

humor and empathy gives

33:14

permission to everybody else to

33:16

show up that way as well . Yeah .

33:18

Yeah , and

33:20

I work in a business where it's very metrics

33:22

focused . We're driving results , they're

33:25

measurable , and I think I previously

33:27

thought you couldn't take that seriously . Like

33:30

you know , I want to be serious about my job . I want

33:32

you to know I'm here to win , I'm here to drive

33:34

the outcomes and I used to

33:36

feel like , okay , if the outcomes aren't there , if results are bad

33:39

, then I got to come with a seriousness that

33:41

shows my intent to really drive

33:43

results Right , and I think there's somewhat of this

33:45

softening of realization of like yes , and

33:47

like I can be serious about my job

33:49

, I can be serious about outcomes and I can also

33:52

be fun and playful and we can all do that together , right

33:54

.

33:54

I also think people respond more

33:56

and work harder in environments where

33:58

they feel safe and seen

34:00

and supported and authentic , absolutely

34:03

yeah .

34:04

And I love that you just referred to the , and I

34:06

mean I literally have like in

34:09

my office .

34:10

This was a yes and environment . I knew

34:12

I was in a yes and place my and yeah

34:14

.

34:15

Because it's not black and white and it's not this or that I mean . Certainly

34:17

there are circumstances where that's that's true , but so

34:19

much of life is yes , and

34:22

I can be a great mom and

34:24

have massive career aspirations

34:26

, I can take my job seriously and

34:29

infuse it with so much fun and play

34:31

Like there's so much and , and I think when

34:33

we can really embody that in our being

34:36

, it expands possibilities . John

34:38

often is my husband is like well

34:40

, it's , this is either going to go this way or

34:42

it's going to go this way , and I'm like

34:45

or or . What about this way ? You

34:48

know , like what about that ?

34:49

You know all the other possibilities .

34:52

And I want to tie that into I know we've talked about

34:54

this before of having these career aspirations

34:56

and being a mom of two littles

34:58

. Mom guilt is a real thing

35:01

, and so I'm curious

35:03

how you navigate that world of and

35:05

with what you're up to in the world

35:08

and having those sweet babies .

35:10

I'm about to enter a whole new phase of this right

35:13

now . I think I've dealt with this through my

35:15

career and then now I'm stepping into an even

35:17

bigger job and there's travel . There's

35:19

like some commitment to it , but I'm also so

35:22

excited for it and I cannot wait to do it , and

35:24

so yes , and both right

35:26

. So , I've had a few phases

35:28

of this throughout my experience and

35:30

I think number one I wish

35:32

I had the how but I feel like I've learned to give myself

35:35

a lot of grace around the

35:37

things that don't matter . That's

35:39

like when we're on the text chain and everyone has these fabulous

35:41

Valentine's that they're making with their kids and

35:43

I'm like , oh my God , like my kids' Valentine's

35:46

are going to look like shit . They are going to look

35:48

like they don't have a mother . Because

35:50

I've been traveling for two weeks and so

35:52

I bought a box of Valentine's and said , put some

35:54

names on these , right ? But honestly , I truly

35:57

, genuinely , don't feel attached to that . I don't feel

35:59

self-conscious about it . I make it a joke

36:01

because it is funny and it helps

36:03

me cut , like that's how I deal with it . But

36:06

I think I give myself a lot of grace around

36:08

imperfection , on the things that don't matter

36:10

, and have to constantly remind myself of , like you

36:13

know , talking about priorities , what matters and none

36:15

of that shit matters . My daughter's hair looking

36:17

crazy all the time because

36:19

I'm not the one dressing her and she went

36:21

through a homeless phase . She's out in the world

36:23

. She's so cute , she's the cutest little girl . She's

36:26

on the world looking like shit because

36:28

she's so cute . I'm not always there to get

36:30

her dressed in the morning and brush her hair , but that doesn't

36:32

matter . I also

36:34

bring in a lot of help . I have the most

36:36

supportive husband in the world . I have parents

36:39

who have been willing to live nearby and I've hired

36:41

people to help and I don't have any shame

36:43

in that . I think sometimes people look at having

36:45

extended daycare and having a nanny

36:47

or an au pair and they think , oh , that person must

36:49

not value or prioritize their children . Well , actually

36:51

I want them surrounded by a network of people

36:54

who love them and care about them and can create an environment

36:56

where they're going to thrive . If

36:59

that support system helps me spend

37:01

20 more minutes every day side by

37:03

side with them instead of doing something

37:05

else , then it's worth it

37:07

. I think outsourcing again a privilege

37:09

, but outsourcing and not feeling guilty about

37:11

that and recognizing that other people may perceive

37:13

it differently and they may judge that I've

37:16

just got to be okay with the value that it adds to my life

37:19

. Then I think also thinking about my own

37:21

feelings versus my children's feelings

37:23

. Am I feeling guilt because

37:25

I feel a certain way , but actually they're

37:27

fine . Yeah , it's a big one

37:30

. Centering it around , because I can handle my

37:32

own guilt and I've got to handle that with myself

37:34

. If it's their feelings , well

37:36

then I'm going to behave differently and I'm going to make a different decision

37:38

and I'm going to give up something

37:40

from my job or whatever it is . I'll sacrifice

37:43

that .

37:43

Has anything ever come up with them where they have

37:45

expressed something that you've

37:47

had to adjust to ?

37:48

I think we're still very early

37:52

days for them having

37:54

an awareness of what this means . Recently

37:56

my son asked I think it was their parents in

37:58

the classroom for something and I wasn't there

38:00

and he asked about that . That , I

38:03

think , is going to become more and more of

38:05

a topic . There are certainly business

38:08

trips where I've said

38:10

I'm sorry , I can't be there and I've had to learn

38:12

who I'm going to disappoint . In that instance

38:16

I've had to accept that that

38:18

could be to the detriment of my

38:20

job . That's that

38:22

we're discerning . I'm pretty discerning

38:24

about when I make each of

38:26

those decisions . There are

38:28

moments that I don't want to miss and I think

38:30

I'll experience more and more of that where I've got to make

38:33

a decision around a career sacrifice versus

38:35

kid's sacrifice .

38:37

Something I'm really struck by in you that

38:39

I think is really powerful . It's

38:41

a big lesson for me , a big example

38:43

that you set around not

38:45

compromising yourself . You spoke

38:47

about being supported by your parents

38:50

in a way where they were holding you , but without

38:52

the parameters or the boxes . We're

38:54

talking about the yes anding . You

38:57

have been able to allow

38:59

yourself to be all the different

39:01

parts of yourself that you are

39:04

and the boundaries you have in friendships

39:06

and in the way that you are not

39:08

compromising in your dreams

39:11

and in the way that you are not compromising around

39:13

your family . It seems like you have

39:15

this heightened awareness of what

39:17

you need and what you desire

39:20

and it's like you're not making any room

39:22

for the outside world to come in

39:24

and infiltrate that or take any piece of that

39:26

away from you . You have to negotiate

39:28

it , I'm sure , in your own life , on a daily basis . You

39:30

know , in your family network all the

39:32

time , but you're so boundary

39:35

, I think , in a really healthy

39:40

way , thank you .

39:41

That makes me cry . Thank you , I

39:44

also want to own that because

39:46

I think I appreciate

39:49

that Obviously that's a lot of that is true

39:51

. I also feel just very grateful

39:53

to be within the support system and

39:55

somewhat in the support system I've created somewhat in the

39:57

support system that I'm just grateful to have

40:00

, and I think I've mentioned my husband . But what

40:02

I didn't realize until later in life is

40:04

that your partner or your spouse or whomever

40:06

, is the most important career decision you can make , and

40:08

obviously we all know it's the most important life decision

40:10

you make . But I also just want to acknowledge that

40:12

confidence to move in those

40:14

ways and not compromise , is also

40:16

underpinned by massive support

40:19

that not everyone has and

40:21

that I don't take for granted . Sometimes

40:23

I think I feel a little bit of selfishness in that too , because

40:26

it's like well , I have these big career ambitions and I

40:28

also want to be a mom , and so I don't know , I think

40:30

I just I appreciate

40:32

your comments so much and I want to own that , and

40:34

then I simultaneously want to say there's also

40:36

always this layer of like am I taking

40:38

too much ? Sure , like , great , I

40:40

get to be this whole person and that's

40:42

the life I want to live . But yeah

40:44

, that's maybe . The doubt I live with is like , am I

40:47

taking too much ? Am I asking too much ? That's such a big

40:49

, it's such a big one , I might have to go

40:51

cry .

40:53

It's a really big one , and I think we

40:55

have this language around selfishness and

40:59

what is and isn't right

41:01

.

41:01

Her society .

41:02

And then there is this you know , one of the things you

41:05

said and I think about this often

41:07

is who am I going to disappoint ? Them

41:10

or me , right

41:12

? And it ? Even your family ? Is you , right

41:14

? My children is me . And so so often

41:16

I think what happens and we over extend ourselves

41:19

is like why can't disappoint them ? I have to

41:21

do the homemade Valentine's , because what if they don't know

41:23

? It's like right , okay , well

41:25

, what if I disappoint me ? And I know it's not that

41:27

black and white , but there becomes this point of

41:29

where am I constantly choosing

41:31

to disappoint myself and put myself

41:33

on the back burner ? And in

41:36

order to make sure that everyone else is taking

41:38

care ? of all the time , and it's a balancing act

41:40

, for sure , but I really

41:42

noticed that too when you were speaking about

41:44

the disappointment .

41:46

There's something that I like to call enlightened

41:48

selfishness . We love that

41:50

we have to have our own needs

41:52

met . Our tank has to be

41:55

full in order to show

41:57

up more fully and more presently in

41:59

all of these different areas of our lives . You

42:02

know and I think , a lot of the world

42:04

, it's like we reward self-sacrifice

42:07

or we think that it's so noble

42:09

, we revere it in some way , and

42:12

I don't actually think that we can

42:14

show up and actually serve

42:16

at our highest capacity if

42:18

we are compromised . One million

42:21

percent it actually feels like inauthentic

42:23

giving and that we

42:25

can actually give so , so much

42:28

more in a much , much bigger way

42:30

when our foundation

42:33

, the foundation of our lives , is

42:35

thriving and joyful and

42:37

abundant .

42:38

Yeah , and that's

42:40

the end , right the end yeah , you

42:42

can fill your own bucket and it's not

42:44

like a win-lose right . It's like just because

42:46

I'm taking care of my own needs doesn't mean everyone else

42:48

is missing out . It's like they're actually getting

42:50

a way kick-ass better version of me

42:52

. I can show up as a way better mom , I can

42:54

show up as a way better leader and

42:56

I think that's the story is like the win-lose

42:59

right .

42:59

And while your kids are now going to have examples

43:02

of people

43:04

who are not compromising their dreams

43:06

, you know people who are showing

43:08

you that it's possible to have all the ends , which

43:10

is such a gift , such permission

43:12

for them .

43:13

Yeah , yeah , I sit well in

43:16

the studies or the narratives

43:18

of people whose children are grown

43:21

, who have had big lives , and

43:23

those children look back and go like , yeah , I got this

43:25

cool example , I got this cool

43:27

model of what a parent could

43:29

be . I think there's a lot of examples of

43:31

that and I think that that

43:33

gives me confidence and hope

43:36

for what's possible . I think , at

43:38

the core , if you're creating an environment

43:41

where your kids are loved and supported by

43:43

you , by their community , they're

43:45

going to come through it and have some confidence

43:47

themselves .

43:47

Yeah , I know we have to wrap up , but

43:49

I'm very interested in asking this last

43:52

question around your formula for success

43:54

, if you could speak to

43:56

. I love these kinds of questions Low

43:59

attachment , high intention .

44:00

Low attachment . High intention , low attachment

44:03

. Yeah , I'm glad you told

44:05

me my formula . I forgot to put that out there . I

44:07

was like , oh , shit . Oh

44:10

no , I'm going to think of it .

44:11

I got to recreate .

44:12

I recently learned this and I think I've practiced

44:14

it a little bit and tried to practice it and then hearing

44:16

it articulated was so powerful

44:18

. So high intention , low attachment

44:21

. I think that's just this philosophy that

44:23

you're coming at every experience , every

44:25

challenge with the

44:27

best intent and your best self and

44:30

everything you can give in terms of

44:32

what's possible , while simultaneously

44:34

not attaching yourself too much to

44:37

the specific outcome . And I would say that even

44:39

I've talked about my coaching experience . I came

44:41

into that with so much intention and

44:44

the outcome was so different . Like

44:46

I was going through some things , I was exploring some ideas

44:48

. I thought maybe there would be this path that

44:50

I would take as an outcome and it was exactly

44:53

the opposite . And I'm

44:55

so grateful for that right . And had I been attached

44:57

to one specific outcome , maybe

45:00

I wouldn't be happy . Maybe you know what I mean If I'd have

45:02

the outcome , maybe , but would I be happy

45:04

? Would it be right ? Maybe not right . And so I think

45:06

, early in my career , my girlfriend Maureen

45:08

, she was coaching me because I was like really struggling

45:11

and she said stay

45:13

engaged but take the pressure off . I was

45:15

a new manager , I had to fire

45:17

people . I was so scared

45:20

. I just felt like this constriction

45:22

in my throat constantly . I just felt

45:24

like I don't think this is for me , I don't think

45:26

I can do it . And she said stay engaged and take the pressure

45:28

off . And that was almost like the early form

45:30

of this right , which is just like you

45:32

can give it everything you've got and

45:35

have high intention around what you want it to

45:37

be . But almost like this , it's like a healthy detachment

45:39

right . Again , the outcome is not necessarily

45:42

like who I am right , and so that

45:44

, to me , keeps me rooted in , like a learning journey and

45:47

an obsession and a fixation with growth and

45:49

learning instead of specific

45:52

outcomes which often we can't control .

45:54

It's like a master manifestor's

45:56

way of being honestly Set the vision

45:58

, set the intention , leave room for the magic

46:01

, follow your intuition as

46:03

you take action . And I always like to

46:05

say like this or something better , because

46:07

who are we right ? Like you had your

46:09

idea of what you're going into , the coaching , and I find that

46:11

almost 10 times out of 10 , when you go into a coaching relationship

46:14

, you're like I need this thing . And there you

46:16

go like oh my God , I got this whole other thing and

46:18

you would know that it's me .

46:19

Like it's always you get exactly what you

46:21

need and we often don't even

46:23

know what that is To me it's just like let's

46:25

leave room for the magic right and let's not

46:27

be so graspy and our brains are so

46:29

limiting it doesn't actually know how

46:31

to conceive of all that is possible

46:34

and so often it's conditioned

46:36

to believe all kinds of different

46:38

ideas of what success is supposed to look like

46:40

, whatever the things that are supposed to make us

46:42

happy . And so when we actually

46:44

let that go and move

46:46

towards the things that are bringing us joy

46:48

or the excitement of an idea

46:51

, it just allows it to

46:53

expand , like I've told

46:55

this to most of them many , many times Like I didn't even know what

46:57

human design was five years ago

46:59

. I never set out to

47:01

do that , that was never a career goal

47:03

of mine in any way . But just

47:05

following this passion and this curiosity , something

47:08

unfolded in a direction that was so

47:10

much more in line with my soul , that

47:12

was so authentic to me that

47:14

my brain would have never been able to conceptualize

47:17

for itself .

47:18

Your brain would have gotten in the way .

47:20

Yeah , absolutely .

47:21

It would have derailed you . I have

47:23

one of my coaches , tracy , who

47:25

has been on this podcast . She's my somatic

47:28

movement coach and at the end of every dance

47:30

we do she says what are your desires

47:32

? And you state your desires and

47:34

she has you go into your body for the desires . She's

47:36

like , oh , what am I gonna do ? What does my brain want my desire

47:38

to be ? And then she always says and so it shall

47:40

be beyond your wildest dreams . And

47:42

I'm just feeling that in this conversation it's

47:45

like let it be beyond your wildest

47:47

dreams , yeah , why limit ourselves

47:49

to what our little human brain

47:51

can conceptualize Like , let

47:54

it be that .

47:54

That seems like the perfect note to end on . Thank

47:57

you so much for being with us today

47:59

. You're so great to talk

48:01

to .

48:01

This is the best . Thank you , oh

48:03

my gosh , you both are so great .

48:05

We should have helped each other the whole time .

48:07

We were holding hands . We were holding hands .

48:09

We should have done that . We

48:11

were holding hands .

48:12

It's a nice tight little setup . Yeah , I really appreciate

48:15

your vulnerability and your thoughtful

48:17

answers today . Oh my gosh , this was

48:19

so fun . Appreciate it . Two hays to

48:21

come , okay

48:24

.