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0:38

You're listening to Inside of You with Michael

0:40

Rosenbaum. I took a nap, by the way, right

0:43

before you got here. Yeah. A little

0:45

bit. Yeah. I tried

0:47

to fall asleep. I did for a minute and then all of a sudden

0:49

front door open. Dogs barking. Oh no.

0:52

Ryan, here. Oh. No.

0:55

My bad. No. Well,

0:57

I needed to wake up. I was supposed to come at four and I came at four. Thank

0:59

God you didn't come at three. I know. Actually,

1:01

I would have rather come at three. Coming at four, there's a lot of

1:03

traffic coming up this direction. Oh

1:06

great. Now I feel bad. God makes me

1:08

feel guilty. Thanks for listening. The

1:10

last couple of weeks have been really great. We had Eric McCormick and

1:12

Steven Weber on the podcast last

1:14

week, the week before James Gunn, which exploded.

1:18

And it was good to see. It's good to see when the

1:20

podcast gets out there. I've been

1:22

getting a lot of calls. And

1:24

for those of you who haven't listened to the podcast and are here

1:26

for Andrew McCarthy, stay

1:28

tuned. But just a few words. We don't talk

1:31

forever.

1:31

These are short intros. But

1:34

I'm very grateful. If you like the podcast,

1:36

by the way, the podcast,

1:38

subscribe,

1:41

write a review. It truly helps the podcast.

1:44

And tell someone, say, hey, I heard

1:46

this podcast. It's decent.

1:49

And I try to bring out

1:51

a lot out of each guest, whether

1:54

you know them or you don't know them. And

1:56

this episode with

1:58

Andrew McCarthy, we talk about

1:59

walking with Sam's new book. And

2:02

I found it fascinating, you

2:05

know, father and a son walking across

2:07

Scotland or whatever, and really

2:09

getting personal and in depth, just

2:12

into their lives and, you know, whatever.

2:15

And it got real, it's

2:18

gonna get real when you're doing something like that. So,

2:20

and you know, I was always a fan of Andrew McCarthy and

2:23

I

2:24

also found out he's not that much older than

2:26

I am. I always felt like these guys, you know, when I was younger

2:29

were, oh my gosh, you know, he's pretty

2:31

in pink and

2:33

he's not that much older than me, which, you

2:35

know. Time's weird, man. What I'm saying, Andrew,

2:37

is you're not old. Hey,

2:40

if you want to follow us, Ryan,

2:43

tell them the handles. At Inside of You

2:45

Pod on Twitter,

2:46

at Inside of You podcast on Instagram and Facebook. I

2:48

haven't said that in a while. I know. And

2:51

Tom Welling and I will, and Kristen Kruik, the threesome

2:54

of Smallville, will be in Montreal, Montreal,

2:57

July 15th weekend. We're doing the Smallville Nights.

3:00

We're signing autographs, pictures, all that. It's

3:02

gonna be a blast. My grandmother just

3:04

had her 95th birthday

3:06

and I went down there and I organized

3:08

the whole thing because I'm a control freak. And,

3:11

you know, it was a nice time. There was some, you

3:14

know, some things that

3:16

weren't as smooth. I won't get

3:18

into those. But,

3:20

you know, it made me sad that she doesn't, she's 95,

3:23

of course her memory's not gonna be great, but I didn't realize

3:26

it would go that fast. And

3:28

in the last three to six months, I

3:30

showed her a video of the trip after, you know,

3:34

after her big birthday night and

3:38

brought her to tears. But then the next morning when I

3:40

said, did you love the video? She didn't know what I was talking

3:42

about. And I showed her again, like she had seen it the first time.

3:44

So it's pretty bad.

3:46

And so I told my uncle, do me

3:49

a favor on her refrigerator, just

3:52

put call Mikey with

3:54

a picture of me and my phone number, your grandson.

3:57

And he wouldn't put your favorite grandson.

4:00

son because his two kids would be upset with

4:02

that. But he did put your grandson.

4:04

So I got a call from her today. So I think

4:07

maybe it works. Keep that, you know, it's

4:10

on her fridge. If she's going to the fridge, that's

4:12

good. You know what else? My, my, um, cousin

4:14

sent me a picture of the inside of her, uh,

4:17

refrigerator and

4:20

it had like insure, you know, the old

4:22

people drink. I think other people take that too,

4:25

but it had a glass of

4:28

wine covered up with

4:30

plastic, like Saran

4:32

wrap or whatever. And it was like,

4:34

she drinks the cheapest, shittiest freaking

4:37

wine and she's preserving it. She

4:40

doesn't want a little bit of the time. She doesn't want to waste

4:42

it. Okay. So anyway,

4:45

um,

4:46

so what else? Uh, the band, we just

4:48

had a concert, uh, sunspin.

4:51

We're going to be playing those monthly. So go to stage.com

4:53

or go to sunspin.com. Get a ticket. We

4:55

have zooms, other stuff. You could also get a zoom

4:57

with me and Rob, uh, my guitarist

5:00

and chat with us. Uh, the inside

5:02

of you online store has a lot of cool stuff. Uh, this

5:04

guy's Santiago.

5:06

Where in the hell is. Uh,

5:10

Santiago M. No, it's Carmen,

5:13

San Diego. I know that. That's

5:15

what I was asking you for. But then when I was the second

5:17

I said it, I realized that the Santiago is not where

5:19

the San Diego is.

5:20

And it was wrong. Yeah. And

5:22

I regret it now. Yeah. You ruined it. You're in

5:25

the moment. Damn. Uh,

5:27

anyway, uh, these little busts,

5:30

the small ville busts, they're bad ass.

5:33

He made boxes for them. Get them. There's only

5:35

four available. So if you want those, there's also Lex

5:38

Luther statues, uh, Funko's

5:40

and tons of stuff. I want to thank the Funko

5:43

store. I went to the Funko store

5:45

in Hollywood. I did an interview, which is coming out soon.

5:47

And I brought a couple of friends and they let us shop

5:50

and get as many Funko's as we wanted.

5:52

Funko that shit, man. It

5:55

was awesome. I love Funko. Thank you

5:57

to everyone there. Tracy, thanks for hooking it

5:59

all.

5:59

up and I got a lot of

6:02

cool stuff. If you haven't been go to the

6:04

Funko store in Hollywood Boulevard. It will blow your

6:06

mind. It's like Disney world. I didn't know there was one. It's

6:08

dude, you'll, it'll blow your mind. I'll take

6:10

you. You want to go? Sure. It's great. Um,

6:13

so thanks there. Um,

6:14

and a few thank

6:16

yous to, uh,

6:19

the nonprofits that I work with food

6:21

on foot.org for homeless, uh,

6:24

echoes of hope for foster youth, the

6:26

Ronald McDonald house, uh, the animal

6:28

rescue mission. If you want to rescue animals, get

6:30

ahold of the animal rescue mission on Instagram or whatever,

6:33

ask for Shira say I sent you and,

6:36

uh, all that jazz. And thanks for listening to talkville.

6:38

We're going to be coming back soon with new episodes

6:41

season three. Very exciting. Ryan,

6:44

it's going to be a good season. So, and thanks,

6:46

thanks mostly to the patrons who

6:49

support these

6:49

podcasts because I could not do these

6:51

podcasts without you. Um, thanks

6:54

for the support and the love and a

6:56

check out patreon.com slash inside

6:58

of you or slash talkville and

7:00

become a patron member today. All right, without

7:02

further ado, let's, uh, let's get into

7:05

this. Let's get, uh, so

7:07

much to talk about with Andrew McCarthy. It was, it was a lot

7:09

of fun. And, uh, you

7:11

know, we get into it. So let's get inside

7:14

of Andrew McCarthy. It's my

7:16

point of view. You're

7:18

listening to inside of you with

7:21

Michael Rosenbaum. Inside

7:24

of you with Michael Rosenbaum was

7:26

not recorded in front of a live studio audience.

7:29

Great setup. Thanks.

7:30

I noticed you were looking at it. Now, is that

7:32

sarcasm sarcasm? No, no, it's great. Are you, what

7:35

are you into? What

7:38

do you mean? I mean, you're obviously into travel. You're

7:40

obviously into writing and directing and all these other things in acting,

7:43

but like, do you have any, like, do you keep things? No. Posters?

7:46

No, I was actually in my office. I was in

7:49

my office. I was in my office. Do you keep things?

7:51

No. You keep posters? No. I was actually

7:53

more talking about your technical setup, not, not your,

7:57

not your gap. Not my freak show. No,

7:59

not your freak show. That.

7:59

That I didn't even really notice. No, I was looking

8:02

more the technical setup. No, it was good. Yeah,

8:04

I had somebody come and set this up and I'm

8:07

always scared that

8:08

the camera's gonna just go. And I'm like, oh shit,

8:11

what camera do I go? Okay, the Lumix, I gotta order

8:13

this and we gotta hook it up. I shouldn't worry about that,

8:15

should I, Ryan? Okay,

8:17

thank you. Well, you

8:19

got so much going on. First of all, your agent

8:22

or your publicist sent me that the

8:24

book is now, your new book

8:26

is on the New York Times bestseller list. And

8:28

this just happened? Yeah, yesterday,

8:31

yeah. So that's always- Walking with Sam. Yeah,

8:34

and that's always a relief. What do you mean it's always a relief?

8:36

So you've had other books, the memoirs, the brat was

8:38

also bestseller? Yeah, yeah, so

8:41

which is great. No, it's showing because it

8:43

is the only way that,

8:45

you know, the Broadway that people keep score.

8:48

If you, you know, have been claimed, oh, it's a New York Times

8:50

bestseller, then you can claim success. Oh, it's real.

8:52

Yeah. It's like my dad, it's like, it's an independent

8:55

movie. Oh, so it's not a real movie. Yeah. Also,

8:58

when you've been out there shamelessly promoting it, like I

9:00

have, if it doesn't do something, you kind of

9:02

go, oh, you've been really selling there and they

9:04

weren't buying, huh? So anyway, it's

9:07

wonderful and exciting and a relief. My

9:09

biggest fear is, you know, some people said

9:11

write a book and I'm like, no one cares about me.

9:14

I mean, my listeners may be like what I taught,

9:16

but like, okay, so how many people buy

9:18

my book? Because I have some great,

9:20

I

9:21

mean, great stories, starting

9:23

from childhood to craziness to, getting

9:26

to Hollywood and

9:28

getting mixed up with the wrong crowd and all that

9:30

stuff in between living with Carrie Fisher, it

9:32

would be a chapter and not sexually.

9:35

But I

9:37

don't think, my fear is like, you've

9:39

been there. You

9:42

are like, I mean, for God's sake, the, there

9:45

are the headphones that you don't wanna wear. But

9:47

like, you know, you've done so much,

9:49

people know who you are. What

9:51

do they think they do anyway? Yeah, which is

9:53

good, you know, that has its pluses and minuses,

9:55

yeah. I mean, I get on the Today

9:57

Show or whatever, the Good Morning America to talk

9:59

about.

9:59

about my new book because I was in movies 30

10:02

years ago. You know what I mean? Right.

10:05

So I have that sort of platform, if you will. So

10:08

I've, you know, I've become this sort of cultural,

10:11

you know, touchstone for a generation

10:13

of people. But normally like

10:15

when someone comes on the podcast, they wanna promote

10:18

something, I'm like, it's not that I'm like, ah, fuck, all

10:20

right. You know, I'm

10:21

like, all right, we'll talk about it, but that's not really what the

10:23

podcast is about. But this, your

10:26

book is what the podcast is because

10:30

walking with Sam is sort of like

10:32

a journey with your son, right? Yeah.

10:35

Across the country, 500 miles. Yeah.

10:39

And like when I hear that you open up

10:41

about your life to your son, it's just

10:43

so foreign to me and so beautiful

10:46

that,

10:48

you know, I didn't know anything about my father. In

10:50

fact, I remember calling him up one time and

10:53

he wasn't the kind of guy, I'm sure you were very close,

10:55

you're very close with your son where you're like, I love you son, I'm

10:57

proud of you, that kind of thing. Yeah.

11:02

You're hesitant. No, but I mean, sure,

11:04

I hope I don't say that, yes, I am,

11:06

yeah. But go on, finish. No, but

11:08

I just think that

11:10

I remember I was 20 something, early 20s

11:12

and I was just like,

11:15

he always, I never smoked and never drank and never

11:17

did drugs, it was always very, very critical,

11:20

very hard on me.

11:22

And I went to his dentist and

11:24

I shouldn't have gone to his dentist because it was this guy

11:26

out in Long Island. Who's Lawrence Olivier?

11:30

Why, what was that about? No, well in Marathon

11:32

Man, he's the dentist, you know. Yes,

11:35

yes, yes, yes, I remember, I remember, the Dustin Hoffman

11:37

thing. Is it safe? Is

11:39

it safe? Do you do a lot

11:41

of impressions? No, that was it. That's it.

11:43

That is it, yeah. But I went out to his dentist

11:46

and he was a good dentist, but his dental

11:48

place was in his house in Long Island,

11:50

so it was called Fight Tooth Decay

11:52

with Dr. J. And I went

11:54

in there and he was this kind of- Dude, what were you thinking?

11:56

It should have been your first clue. I had no money and this guy

11:58

was gonna take care of me.

11:59

And I was like, what was my dad

12:02

like? Oh, your dad. Fuck. Your

12:04

dad was, he was, you know,

12:06

did he ever do drug drugs? I think

12:08

he invented Coke. I think.

12:10

And all this stuff came out and

12:13

women. And I'm like, what? Whoa.

12:16

Whoa.

12:17

And I call my dad. I go, I don't, I don't

12:19

fucking know you. You've lied to me

12:21

all these years. You're like, so I got it.

12:23

What do you want to hear? Is this what you want? What do you want to know? I'll

12:25

tell you what you want. And I go, did you do drugs? Yeah.

12:28

I did a lot of drugs. It got to that point

12:30

where like, yeah, did you have sex with other girls and

12:32

mom? He was, what are you fucking kidding? Of course.

12:34

Yes. I'm like, okay. And I

12:36

just started hammering these questions

12:38

and he answered them, but I didn't, I still

12:41

to this day, I don't know

12:43

my real father. I mean, I know my, my biological

12:46

father. You know what I'm talking about. My dad's

12:48

just very, um, uh,

12:51

maybe it's just old school. It's

12:53

old school where he doesn't want me to get inside, but

12:55

I get inside, but I'd like

12:58

to know

12:58

more about my father. I'd like to know the

13:01

real story and the things that he went

13:03

through. And because when

13:06

I looked at what your book's about, it made

13:08

me think, you know, wow,

13:10

his son, Sam, right? Yeah,

13:12

obviously unless you're walking with somebody

13:14

else and Sam that he's really

13:17

getting to know his dad and really

13:19

seeing the things that hurt him and the mistakes

13:21

he made. And like, it seems like it was such

13:23

an honest journey. Just tell me about that.

13:25

Well, you're talking about your dad, you know, when I

13:27

left home at 17 and my relationship

13:30

in essence ended with my dad right

13:32

then, you know, my dad was very volatile guy and

13:35

I was terrified of him. So I

13:37

left home and we had no real relationship

13:40

through the rest of his life. I

13:42

mean, he died, I guess, just like six or seven years

13:44

ago. And I mean, I saw him probably

13:47

a dozen times in all those years. And

13:49

my dad, when I was young and successful, my dad,

13:51

uh, when I was in the first in the

13:54

movies, you know, my fortunes were rising

13:56

as my dad's fortunes were falling emotionally.

14:00

financially and so he,

14:03

my dad used to come to me for money, which I

14:05

found that really twisted

14:08

me up because I gave it to

14:10

him. You know, when my dad first, you know, if I don't

14:12

get, you know, 50K, I'm gonna jump

14:14

off a roof. I'm like, okay,

14:17

here's 50K, you know what I mean? Until finally that

14:19

went on for a number of years and then I finally,

14:22

you know, he said, I'm gonna jump off a

14:24

bridge if I don't get whatever. And I said, well, you know what,

14:26

you're just like a heroin junkie and I'm not giving you any more heroin

14:28

to jump off the bridge.

14:30

And that pretty much ended our relationship and

14:33

for decades really. And

14:35

I think he regretted that later, but

14:38

I just, it really, that

14:40

was difficult because what I needed when

14:43

I was a young kid and being successful in

14:45

that way that I was when I was in these movies when I was young

14:47

in my early 20s, I would have, you know,

14:49

welcomed some kind of backup

14:51

and I didn't, I felt like I was being undercut as

14:53

opposed to being backed up, you know, or supported.

14:55

So. Inside

14:58

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my dad as he was dying and

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we didn't really, we didn't solve anything,

18:29

but we just dropped it. I

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I was able to be there with him when he was dying.

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And that was a

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seeing me, you know? And

18:51

so anyway, so when you talk about your dad like that, I

18:54

didn't know really anything about.

18:56

The one story I heard about my dad once, when

18:58

his mom was put

19:02

into an old, you know, a home. Convalescent

19:04

or? Yeah, that kind of, you know, for an old person.

19:06

And he went and he kind of kidnapped

19:09

her because he was so upset by her being locked

19:11

up. So he went and he kidnapped her for a day. He didn't know,

19:13

he didn't have any plan. He just needed to, felt

19:15

some need to act, like, you know what I mean? So

19:17

he just took her and he went to

19:19

a motel and they were staying there and his

19:21

older brother, and my dad's at this point in his,

19:23

I don't know, 60s or something, 50s. And

19:26

his older brother came and said, he's gonna have this fight

19:29

with my, my older brother was there to see this. And

19:31

his older brother, they stood in the parking

19:34

lot arguing, these two brothers, two grown men. And

19:37

my dad's older brother slapped him upside the head, like

19:40

you would a young sibling

19:42

when you're kids. And I knew,

19:45

in that intimate moment, my brother told me that story. I was like,

19:47

oh, I instantly forgave my

19:49

dad so much because that's where he came from and that's all

19:51

he knew. You know, like you were saying, old school, different generation

19:54

or whatever, you know?

19:56

But anyway, so I didn't want that with

19:58

my son to bring it back.

19:59

to kind of your question. I didn't, I wanted,

20:02

you know, my son, that's

20:05

the last thing I want. That's probably the biggest regret of my life

20:07

in a certain way. It couldn't have been other with my father, but

20:10

I really regretted that

20:12

lack there. And I've always felt that lack.

20:16

There's, you know, when my kids, I always

20:18

say, I want to be like a backstop in Little

20:21

League. So if like, I'm like, you go out in the world

20:23

and when you turn around, I'm gonna be here,

20:26

but you go out there. And you know, whenever I turned

20:28

around when I was young, I just felt somebody poaching me or

20:31

trying to stab me in the back, not there to sort of go, you

20:33

know what I mean? And it's fine. It's just the way life was and

20:35

it was fun. And it helped me in many ways to be, you

20:38

know, resilient, whatever. I

20:40

didn't even really notice it until years later when

20:42

I've become, you know, enough therapy, but,

20:45

and it was fine. And I don't mind

20:48

it. Although I just don't want my kids to have that. I'm

20:50

sure I'll screw them up in other ways, but you know, I

20:53

wanted them to always know that like their dad's right there

20:55

behind them. And so

20:57

anyway, that's why I asked my son. Yeah,

20:59

that's incredible. You say

21:01

that you

21:03

weren't really affected. You were resilient. You

21:06

were obviously later on, you went, you

21:08

got therapy. I'm being positive about it. I mean, what

21:10

I'm right, no, but I mean, and also, you know, it

21:13

does those things, you know, you can either choose to view

21:15

these things as something terrible that happened and you're

21:18

a victim of this person. They're easy to blame. Or

21:20

it's like, dude, this is what your life is. And there are many people have,

21:22

you know, and like, okay. So it's forced

21:24

you to do this and that and that and adjust in

21:26

certain ways. And it's, you know,

21:28

I'm all good with that. You know, I think.

21:31

But what about validation? Did you ever

21:33

feel like you needed validation

21:35

because you became a father? He

21:38

validated my dad loved me and he was proud of me. You

21:41

know, he used to stop people on the street. And I

21:43

had people stop me on the street when I was much

21:45

younger and go, I met your dad. I'm like,

21:48

yeah, yeah. I was crossing the street

21:50

and waiting in red light. And he said, he just said,

21:52

hey, do you know Andrew McCarthy? He's my

21:55

son. And so like my dad used to sort of weird,

21:57

you know, if they were the right demo, he would stop them,

21:59

you know.

21:59

And

22:01

which I found very sad in a certain

22:03

way. I did, that broke my heart

22:05

before him. I was just, it really made me sad. I was

22:07

first humiliated by it and angered by it when I was

22:10

young and then it made me very sad for him later.

22:13

But I mean, I know my dad was proud of me and you know, all

22:15

that stuff, but

22:18

in his way. Yeah, you know, it's

22:20

weird because I, sometimes

22:22

people will ask me this question and then I'll go, huh?

22:26

And the question is, do you think your

22:28

parents love you and they're

22:30

so trying to be in your life a

22:33

little bit more because you've had success,

22:37

because you have maybe a little money, because you

22:39

have. And so did

22:41

you ever have to deal with that? Or there's like your father,

22:43

you say he disappeared, but then when he started

22:46

having the success, he would see people in the street.

22:48

He'd say, that's my son. He was all this. Did you think, okay,

22:50

but what if I wasn't successful? Did

22:52

that ever haunt you? Like, is he doing it because he

22:54

really?

22:55

Well, I think success,

22:58

my public success,

23:00

young really harmed

23:02

my relationships in my family, very

23:05

much so. I

23:07

was not the star of the family growing up. You

23:09

know what I mean? My brother, I have three brothers, two

23:11

older, one younger, and my oldest brother

23:13

was like smart and you know, the

23:15

other one was the jock and I was like the sensitive kid

23:18

or something, but I was not the star of the family, you

23:20

know? And when I became

23:22

one in a public way at 21, 22 years old, that

23:25

sort of blew up my household.

23:28

And, or my, you know, my parents got divorced around

23:30

that time anyway, so they were going through their own thing, but it

23:32

sort of blew up my relationships with my brother, my

23:35

brothers, because they're still

23:37

in their mid twenties trying to figure out who they are.

23:39

And suddenly their little brother is like some movie

23:41

star. And you know what I mean? That was, I think that

23:44

was difficult for them to navigate.

23:47

And so

23:48

I found the opposite with success

23:51

in my family. And so it kind of made me, because of my

23:53

temperament, just sort of flee that and go,

23:55

this isn't a safe place. I'm,

23:57

you know, and I'm a loner

23:59

a bit.

23:59

So I kind of the

24:02

combination of that and with feeling

24:05

slightly poached by them

24:07

made me

24:09

Just flee, you know, I've had a lot I had a lot of people

24:12

Ask me for money and things when I was young and

24:14

family members do tonight and you know invariably

24:17

you give it to them At the beginning until

24:19

you realize that people whoever you give money to hate

24:21

you for it

24:22

Because you're basically saying I'll do for you what I

24:24

see you can't do for yourself and people

24:27

hate you for that And so everyone who I

24:29

tried to help financially and presented me

24:31

for it till I stopped, you know doing

24:33

that I I

24:35

Still enable I still do

24:38

it I'm much better at it now, but

24:40

it angers me that I do it my actual

24:42

my business. So why do you do it? Because

24:45

I don't want to feel guilty when they die Uh-huh

24:52

That doesn't add up You

24:55

know that that's that math that math

24:58

it's two and two is like five I

25:00

want to say that hey, I

25:03

really did everything I could and I was really a

25:05

good brother or good Oh, okay, or a good whatever

25:07

and but it gets to a point where it's like

25:10

Can't you cut it off and still say you did that because

25:12

you did that for so long? It's like when does

25:14

it end and you you came

25:16

to a point where you cut it off with your dad? I

25:19

Haven't had my father doesn't

25:21

need money but like someone in my family they

25:23

do and they but they don't

25:26

They have always sort of

25:28

you know been the victim. They've always sort of like, you know,

25:30

I need this I can't do this They're married.

25:32

They have it. It doesn't make sense But

25:35

I keep

25:36

helping out because I do love them and

25:38

I want them to be happy I don't want them to be destitute

25:41

and maybe there's an ego thing. Maybe there's

25:43

maybe they're sort of like Oh if I let that happen

25:45

and then all of a sudden All they can't afford then all of

25:47

a sudden the town where I grew up and all they're like, oh you

25:50

you're

25:51

Your family there you have money.

25:53

Why aren't you helping them? Maybe there's that

25:55

sort of like I care about what other people

25:58

think Well, of course It was a good time But

26:00

also, you know, there's a sense of- This is therapy for me, Andrew,

26:02

this is therapy for me. So it's probably a big shot

26:04

too for, you know, I give you money, so I'm, you

26:07

know, I'm empowered. I have power over you now.

26:09

I don't want it, I really don't. I

26:11

don't wanna have that power. I just want them to

26:14

be happy and do whatever they

26:16

can to make ends meet and do

26:18

the things that I think are simple,

26:21

simple steps into doing that. Because, you

26:23

know, I have friends that, you know,

26:26

I know that if I didn't have a job, I would go

26:28

get a job. If I didn't have money, I would

26:30

go figure out how to make money. These

26:33

are certain things that were ingrained in me that

26:35

I always knew, and it's easy to save

26:37

now when you're doing

26:38

well, but I know that. And a lot

26:41

of people are like that. They're like, hey, I'll

26:43

work at McDonald's. I'll work at wherever.

26:46

But maybe there's pride in whatever, and

26:48

they don't wanna do that. For sure, when my dad

26:50

was wanting money, I always used to say, I'd be

26:52

proud of your dad if you were a bad person in the checkout,

26:55

you know, at the supermarket. But, you know, easy

26:57

for me to say.

26:58

Yeah, that's true. And

27:01

that was been the truth, but he wasn't being

27:04

able to do that. And I get that.

27:06

Yeah. I get that. I wouldn't wanna

27:08

be bagging in the supermarket either. Hey, you're that guy from Mannequin.

27:11

What are you doing putting my groceries in? You know what I

27:13

mean? So I get that. Lastly

27:17

about that, because I really wanna talk, there's so much talk

27:19

about. But, you know, I

27:20

mean, this is sort of the center. This is the

27:23

kind of what I wanna, I

27:24

mean, the book is, I can't wait to read

27:26

this book because I feel like I need it.

27:29

I need to read this book, as you can

27:31

tell, when I'm telling you these stories. What

27:34

didn't you tell your son? Like, what things

27:36

were you like, I'm not going there with you? Well,

27:38

that's an interesting thing. Cause it was one day, that's

27:41

one of the things I still wrangle with, with

27:44

my kids. Cause I don't need to be their buddy or their

27:46

pal. I wanna be their father and you know, but

27:48

I wanna have an adult relationship with them. And since

27:50

I didn't have one with my father, I'd

27:52

have no real template for that. Which is one of the reasons

27:55

we walked across Spain together. I thought, cause it was, I did

27:57

it 25 years early and it was a profound thing

27:59

for me.

27:59

So I wanted to sort of thought

28:02

it might be helpful in rewriting

28:05

my son and I's dynamic. But

28:09

I've totally then just forgot your question. No,

28:11

it was just like the things that you

28:14

didn't say to your son. Oh yeah, so

28:16

one day, Sam said, we're about halfway

28:19

through the walk and Sam just turned to me and goes, how

28:21

are you dad?

28:22

And he was asking me,

28:25

you know, and I don't recall him ever

28:27

asking me that before. You know,

28:29

he was asking, wanting to know. And I was

28:33

at that time, at that moment in those previous

28:35

achievements, I'd been fretting about money, been

28:38

worrying about work, been

28:40

thinking stuff about my wife, thinking

28:43

in a worrisome fretful mode. And

28:45

I said to him,

28:48

I'm good, Sam, I'm good. And it

28:50

was a real missed opportunity to sort of share

28:52

who I am with my kid, particularly

28:54

since I'm saying that's what I wanted to do for

28:57

him to see me more. But

29:00

I remember when I was young, I had,

29:02

this has never left me, my mother at

29:04

times

29:05

she'd have problems with my dad and she would be very

29:07

upset and I would come in

29:10

and she would say, oh, a child should never

29:12

see their mother cry. And I'm like, no mom, tell me, because

29:14

I wanted to be close to my mom naturally and she was

29:16

suffering, so I would go into her. And she would tell

29:18

me stuff that,

29:20

it was emotionally what was happening to her at the

29:23

time, but I interpreted it with my young

29:25

ears as sort of settled fact of

29:27

that, this is what she felt. That

29:30

was just a transitory mood, but I took

29:32

that and took that deep as this is what

29:34

she believes. And there's a big difference.

29:37

And so, and as a young person, I wasn't able to separate

29:39

those two, particularly when it's your mom doing that. So

29:41

I've often, I've said, oh, I don't want to

29:44

do that with my kids. And yet, how

29:46

am I going to, if I want him

29:48

to share with me, him himself with me,

29:50

I have to do that too, I have to model

29:53

that and or meet him there or lead

29:55

him there. So I still find that

29:57

a challenging thing at times to do.

29:59

Yeah, did you, is that in

30:02

the book where you didn't say it? You talk about not saying it?

30:04

Yeah, that is in the book. Yeah, where I talk about what

30:06

was going on, you know, cause it was

30:08

such an odd moment too, cause it caught me so off guard.

30:11

And

30:12

I was so in a space of, and the

30:14

kids know everything, you know, they see right through everything.

30:16

You know, I was such in a space of worry

30:19

in that moment where I wasn't often on

30:21

the trip, but in that, for whatever reason that morning

30:24

I was in that space, you know, where we

30:26

can get. And, but to not

30:28

share that with them, even to just say, you know,

30:30

it'll

30:31

pass, it's no big deal, but I'm

30:34

just really worried about money. I just, you know,

30:36

cause money's not, you know, blah, blah, and talk to him about

30:38

it. Like, you know, it was a missed opportunity on my

30:40

part. Is that something you would

30:42

talk about with anybody or not anybody,

30:44

but with, yeah, with any person? Only you.

30:47

Only me. Well, it

30:49

is interesting thing about how, you know,

30:51

people often,

30:52

and it's in writing too, you know, people often, I read

30:55

that Edward R. Murrow, the newscaster

30:57

told a stranger on the plane next to him that

30:59

he had cancer and he'd never told any of his family at that point. You

31:02

know what I mean? There's something about telling strangers things that's

31:04

interesting. It's like when you write, I'll often write

31:06

things that,

31:09

my 16 year old daughter asked me something

31:11

about my past and Sam said

31:14

to her, if you want to know dad, you

31:16

should read his books

31:18

because I'll

31:19

write things. And it's very true if

31:21

that goes to what we were just talking about and also, you

31:24

know, I'll be much more forthcoming on

31:26

a page than I will be generally

31:28

in life with people, even people I love. And I always

31:31

say, and I'm not the only one, lots of people talk about how

31:33

that's the case. And I think that's really interesting

31:35

how we do that and

31:37

why we do that. And- That's

31:39

why they say write what you know, right? Yeah,

31:42

I guess so. And just write the truth. Right, because

31:44

you write the truth, right? You know, I remember writing the first

31:46

book I didn't, I was writing, you know, and it was a travel

31:48

memoir, but it really was about intimacy. And I remember

31:50

writing a paragraph going, oh my God, this can never be

31:53

in the book and I'm typing away and this could never, never.

31:55

There's no way. I'm

31:57

embarrassed. This is like way too revealing. Yeah.

31:59

And I finish it, I read it and I go, well, that's, there's

32:02

no chapter without that paragraph. That's

32:04

the whole thing. And, you know, cause all you're

32:06

trying to do is, you know, they're just

32:08

feelings. You know, everybody's got them. And you

32:10

just start with, with writing, you're just trying to create a connection

32:13

with the reader so that they're nodding their head, whether

32:15

they sit alone in their bed at night, they, with

32:17

you, and they're nodding their head and kind

32:19

of go, yeah, that's how I feel. That's how I feel. And then

32:21

you've, then you got something. Yeah. Have you

32:23

ever,

32:25

like, are you one of the, like, I had never heard my

32:27

dad cry until he

32:29

lost his daughter, my half sister

32:32

who passed away a few years ago. And

32:34

talk about shell shocked, talk

32:37

about, and

32:40

it was sort of expected throughout the years. She

32:42

had the trisomy, chromosomal thing

32:44

going on for years. And she was, she was always

32:46

in the hospital. I mean, she lived in the hospital, children's

32:49

hospital. And,

32:51

you know, he was dealing with this a long time. And then when

32:53

she passed, I

32:56

called him and I couldn't

32:58

even understand him. It was like a different human being.

33:00

I've never heard that kind of cry.

33:03

He was so hurt. And I just

33:05

didn't know what even to do. I was emotional.

33:08

I was, I

33:09

just said, I love you. I'm here for you. And

33:12

it was, it was heartbreaking.

33:15

It was heartbreaking. It's not something I think you want to see your

33:17

father. There's some people are like, oh, my daddy's always

33:20

crying. Oh, he's everything. He watches

33:22

this, he cries. I think that's one of the greatest

33:24

things we can do for our kids is show them our frailty.

33:28

You know what I mean? And we don't want to do that as dads, of

33:30

course we're strong with this, with that, when we got it sorted

33:32

out. And, you know, but I think, you know, there's a moment

33:34

on the walk when we were walking and I tripped

33:36

and I fell. And I almost crashed

33:38

into this thing that would have really been a problem.

33:41

And I hit hard

33:43

and I normally jump up, bounce right back up if I

33:46

fall because I'm so embarrassed that I just don't know I'm

33:48

fine. But I didn't bounce back up and I just

33:50

fell and it's a much lighter thing than what you're talking

33:52

about, obviously. But the metaphor of it's the

33:54

same. It's I hit the ground

33:56

and I stayed there and my son was shocked

33:58

at this because I never,

33:59

agile and that you know and so

34:02

and he helped me and I realized just

34:05

let him help you let him help

34:07

you it's important for him to

34:09

see that part of me you

34:12

know what I mean and that's one of the things I have to teach is

34:14

like you know like my mom now is is

34:17

not you know she's getting dementia

34:19

and she's suffering and like you

34:21

got to go help them

34:24

and that's

34:26

anyway and so that's part of life that's part

34:28

of the cycle of what happens and so you

34:31

know so yeah it's for you

34:33

to say that's important thing for your dad for

34:35

you to get to experience that with your dad you know what I mean

34:37

that it's not just the other way

34:39

it's you know it's not it's a two-way street which you

34:41

know that takes being in wanting

34:44

that too yeah

34:45

you know it's weird it's like with

34:47

me he knows I have a podcast

34:52

but he doesn't know what I

34:54

talk about how I really open up

34:56

and I'm probably probably you know he'd probably be pissed

34:59

off sometimes if I'm you know talking

35:01

about it but like I don't talk about him

35:03

like I just talk about my you know

35:05

my feelings would have you know life and

35:08

he doesn't know that I mean I think he knows

35:11

he knows I went to therapy and but

35:13

it's almost like he doesn't want to talk

35:16

about that stuff he doesn't go to therapy

35:18

never would I remember when he lost or

35:20

I said you need to go to therapy he's like why you think

35:22

anybody knows that I'm going through I go yes I

35:24

do I think people lose their whole families on planes

35:27

I think there people lose their daughters and their

35:29

sons and their everything it's a people

35:31

there this happens to a lot of people unfortunately

35:33

and if you talk to people and

35:35

sit in a circle some people he's no I'm not

35:37

doing that I'm not doing that he doesn't want to

35:40

do that he doesn't want to tap into his emotions

35:42

he doesn't want to and he never will that's

35:44

just what it is but so I never feel

35:45

like I can talk about any of

35:47

that stuff because it's just it's there's no reason

35:50

to it would just be like oh okay yeah you

35:52

know sorry to hear that

35:54

anyway how the Mets doing you

35:57

know that's you know I

35:59

see the dismiss all that kind of sport

36:02

jargon, but it's a certain intimacy

36:04

that comes with that. And if that's the way people can

36:06

funnel it, then so be it, you know? Yeah.

36:09

And it's also generational, I think, to some degree. Sure. But

36:12

it's also not, there are guys that are like that, you know, I mean,

36:14

and you know.

36:16

Did you ever think, growing

36:19

up, did you have a confidence to

36:21

you? Were you popular that

36:23

all of a sudden you'd be this icon who was doing these

36:26

major motion pictures, part of the brat

36:28

pack, which to me is one of the, probably the coolest thing

36:30

that could ever happen to someone, I'm sorry. There's

36:33

only six people that could say they're part of the brat

36:35

pack, I think, right? Sure.

36:37

I'm just saying.

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37:46

Did you ever imagine

37:48

like, I'm gonna be famous one day? No,

37:53

you know, no, I was not a wildly

37:55

confident kid at all in any kind of way. No,

37:57

I just said, when all that happened, it was.

37:59

and you know, but you

38:02

forget now the Bratpak is this

38:05

wonderfully iconic term

38:08

spoken with affection and reverence for this

38:10

moment in pop culture. And

38:12

for a certain generation, you know, I and other members

38:15

of Bratpak are the avatar of their youth, you

38:17

know? And so it's booked out with these

38:19

rose colored memories because it's, that's the moment

38:21

in life when people are just cussing life when they're 20, 21, when

38:24

they're, you know, the life is a blank slate to

38:26

be written upon and it's get out of the way world here.

38:28

I come and it's just a thrilling, exciting

38:31

moment. And I represent that and other

38:33

actors do too, represent that to

38:35

a certain demographic of a certain generation. But

38:37

that was not the case at the Bratpak

38:39

elements came out. The

38:41

term was coined in 1985 in a

38:44

New York magazine article

38:45

by a guy

38:48

who

38:48

was writing an article on Emilio Estevez and took

38:51

turned off to him and didn't like him and was jealous

38:53

of him I'd say, cause he was also a young journalist. And

38:55

so he wrote this scathing article about

38:58

all these young actors and called him the Bratpak.

39:01

It wasn't Canby was it? No, it wasn't

39:03

a guy named David Blum.

39:05

Vincent Camahue's another story. But

39:09

anyway, so it was a really negative pejorative thing

39:11

and we fucking hated it. And

39:13

we thought, hey, who wants to be called a brat? Who

39:15

wants to be in a pack? I didn't, hugely

39:17

adversely affected our careers cause

39:20

we were now perceived as this. You

39:23

know, all you ever want in life is to be seen,

39:25

right? See me, see who I am.

39:28

That's what your whole thing is about. This is who I am, see me. And

39:31

the instant the Bratpak label

39:33

came out, it was like

39:35

a something we were 180, you know, it

39:37

turned hard and we remember the Bratpak

39:40

and I was unseen for like that's,

39:43

and that it's taken, you know, me decades

39:45

and centuries to have that go 180

39:47

degrees, to embrace it as this

39:50

beautiful thing, which it is now. But

39:52

we forget that it wasn't at the beginning. And,

39:56

you know, we had, I was like, you know, Martin Scorsese

39:58

is not going to call up anybody in the.

39:59

Brat Pack, you know, and he never did.

40:02

So I mean, you know, but so

40:04

it's been a long journey. And I know for

40:07

me and for I know the other people

40:09

as well to sort of

40:10

pivot through that to now where,

40:13

you know, where it's landed for me, which is that that it's

40:15

sort of this beautiful thing to represent that

40:17

for that generation of people.

40:19

But that wasn't the case. And it was largely

40:21

just that notion of I felt

40:24

unseen suddenly. Here I was just starting

40:26

life, just starting my career. OK, here I come. And

40:28

then bam, no, you're labeled your

40:31

pigeon holding this thing. And this is what

40:33

you are from one article. One,

40:35

which

40:35

is amazing. You know, in our culture

40:37

now, with every all the different things, it was one

40:39

article one week and within days the

40:41

countries because it's such a good phrase, you

40:43

know, Brat Pack, boom. I mean, you don't forget

40:45

it's there. It's indelible. And

40:48

you know, and it was also a cultural

40:50

shift to happening when young youth took

40:53

over. Well, no, but just

40:55

youth took I mean, the movies were not about kids

40:57

up to that point. And then they discovered

40:59

in the early 80s, my God, these kids go to the movies

41:01

five, six, seven times. Grown ups go once.

41:04

Let's make movies for kids. And

41:06

we were right there at the right place at the right time. You

41:08

know, and so then John Hughes comes

41:11

along and says, oh, wait, young kids emotions

41:13

should be taken seriously. And

41:15

you know, because nobody's when you're 17,

41:18

18, you fall in love for the first time. You were the first person to ever

41:20

be in love. Right. And so and

41:22

that first heartbreak is the first heartbreak

41:24

ever and is the magnitude of

41:26

it. And John Hughes knew that and honored that. And

41:29

so kids saw that one. That's me. You

41:31

know, and that's why generation the next

41:33

generation, those women have shown their daughters

41:36

and their daughters looking at that movie and going pretty in pink

41:38

and going to hairdos are funny, but that's me,

41:40

you know? Yeah. And so that's why

41:42

they live on in that way. And to sort of, you know, for

41:45

me to come to represent that's a beautiful thing. But I always

41:47

kind of not always. I never looked at it

41:49

like that. Like, no, but now I hear

41:51

you're like, of course, the Jew.

41:53

That's so interesting. It's like, yeah,

41:56

you didn't realize the impact it had on you guys.

41:58

It sounds so cool now. to everybody

42:00

on the outside looking in, I wanna be the brat pack.

42:03

But I could see how it was just sort

42:05

of like, fuck,

42:07

I'm more than that. Yeah, or I'm other

42:09

than that. Just I am more than, you know,

42:11

that's, yeah. And for someone

42:13

like me, I was very much, you

42:15

know, a solitary personal loner bit. So to be

42:18

slumped in with all these guys, who I liked fine,

42:20

but I didn't know them. I don't think I ever went out socially with any

42:22

of them ever, you know. Really, so you never, you

42:24

were on these movies, on these huge

42:26

movies. Well, I lived in New York and so I would just, whatever. Did

42:29

you get closer than anybody?

42:31

Yeah, I mean, I liked them. I mean, no. But

42:33

you never said- No, I never stayed in touch with any of them. No,

42:35

because I saw the article yesterday that

42:37

came out or the other day about

42:40

Emilio Estevez. You hadn't seen him in 30 years.

42:43

Yeah, I hadn't seen any of them. I made a documentary recently

42:45

about this because I wrote a book a few years ago about my time

42:48

then and my life then. And because I was like, it was a rock.

42:50

I'd never looked under. And so I

42:52

decided to look under it. And I like, that's how I came

42:55

to the position that I've sort of was just talking about

42:57

how I've come to realize what a beautiful thing it

42:59

is and what I'm blessed in that way, really,

43:01

truly. And then, but I didn't feel

43:03

that way. And so I thought that, okay, I

43:05

had a size, that was a seismic event in my life,

43:07

the Brad Pack. What was it like for everyone else? Because

43:10

I know

43:10

it was for them too, because we're in the same boat.

43:12

We're members of a club we didn't have to join. And we

43:14

have, we can just look at each other and kind of go,

43:17

hey, dude.

43:18

And we just know. And so I went back and talked

43:20

to everybody. Emilio hadn't seen 30 years. Rob

43:22

hadn't seen 30 years. Demi, you know, any, Ali

43:24

Sheedy, hadn't seen any of them and to just get

43:26

their take on it. And it was

43:28

really interesting.

43:30

Yeah, I just, do you think, if

43:32

you look back, do you think that they were probably like,

43:35

he's doing his own thing. He's too good for us while

43:38

we're all partying and getting together. Well,

43:40

I'm so, they were into their own thing. You know what I mean? Everyone's

43:43

so self-centered. No one's thinking about anybody else. You

43:45

know, but it also was, you know, I was so afraid

43:48

really then that manifested

43:50

as a sort of aloofness when I was just afraid.

43:53

Yeah. And so,

43:56

yeah, and I was always baffled by people thinking, oh,

43:58

you're arrogant, you're aloof. And I'm like. but

44:00

really, I'm just so fucking scared here. You

44:03

know, so I always felt sort of

44:05

unseen in that regard. Was

44:07

there anybody that you could recall on

44:10

set that you worked with or you're

44:12

like female that you were like, gosh,

44:15

you know, I should have stayed in touch with

44:17

her. I should have asked her out or I should have,

44:19

you know, I should have like, I was really attracted to this

44:21

person and I just dropped the ball there. I

44:24

didn't take a chance.

44:25

Well, I was better at it with women than I was with just

44:28

friendship because you know, women, then you

44:30

could, you know, you're thinking in your twenties, you're thinking sex.

44:33

So that gives a little more motivation than friendship.

44:36

Yeah, so. Emilio. Emilio,

44:38

yeah. To me. So

44:42

with that regard, you know, I sort

44:44

of went for things a little more than I might have if it was

44:46

just friendship involved. Did you always love

44:49

acting or was it something that

44:51

you were good at, you were getting roles, you were

44:53

doing it, because I know you do Broadway,

44:56

right?

44:57

I did, yeah. You did Broadway, so you

44:59

obviously loved theater. I did, yeah,

45:01

no, I wanted to, that's what I thought I would be, was a theater actor,

45:04

never occurred to me, I'd be in the movies, you know. I

45:06

mean, when I was 15 years old, I was cut from the high school

45:08

basketball team and my mother said, try

45:10

out for the school play. And I'm like, I don't want to be in

45:12

the

45:13

play, I want to be the point guard, you know, so, but

45:15

I did and I was cast as the Artful Dodger

45:17

in Oliver. And when I walked out on stage at 15,

45:21

you know, my life changed. It was

45:23

like Tennessee Williams, the playwright has a line up

45:25

talking about love. He says, it's as if a room that

45:27

had always been happened, shadow is suddenly in the

45:29

light.

45:30

And that's how I felt. The minute I walked

45:32

on stage, I went, oh my God, there I am, there

45:34

I am. And I knew it was important because I

45:36

told no one. You know, I thought

45:39

I knew it was like a little flame flicker that

45:41

had lit and if anybody

45:43

could have walked by and blown it out, you know what

45:45

I mean? Like when I told, eventually told my

45:48

father, I wanted to be an actor and go to college

45:50

for acting, he said, no son of mine is going to be a fucking

45:52

thespian. You know, and, you

45:54

know, so. Well, yeah, I mean, you know, maybe I

45:56

was right not to bring it up earlier, but by that

45:59

point, I knew what I was doing. I didn't care what anybody said and

46:01

I was gonna go do it. I had no idea how. I

46:03

had the wonderful gift of youth, which is you

46:05

don't know things are impossible. So. That's

46:08

so true. Yeah, and so then, you know,

46:10

it happened for me very quickly. Although

46:12

it doesn't feel quick at the time when you're young and

46:14

stuff, but you know. What is that? I was just talking

46:17

about this, about ambition. And it's like, I remember being

46:19

in college and like getting cast

46:21

in the lead roles and

46:23

you know, all the

46:25

heads of the department were like, you're ready, you need to go to York.

46:28

And this guy is actor Leo Burmister

46:30

who came into town and we all gave

46:33

monologues and he took me aside and said, you got

46:35

it, you have what it takes. You need to

46:37

do this. It's in your heart. And

46:39

all the confidence

46:40

then was just, I'm like, let's go. And

46:44

I didn't, I remember people were like, you know the

46:46

percentage. I go,

46:47

there's no percentage of actors. Here's

46:49

the thing. I didn't ever

46:52

think for a second that I wasn't gonna beat

46:54

the odds. I know that what I'm doing

46:57

is gonna, I'm gonna make it. I swear to God, I thought

46:59

that. And

47:01

what happens is life

47:04

happens and you start to do things. And

47:06

if you don't have this solid foundation, like I

47:08

said, and everything's sort of needed to be validated

47:11

and you're great. Eventually it comes a time where you're

47:13

like,

47:15

I felt like fear got in the way

47:17

and ambition kind of took the side, took

47:20

a step aside. I felt like I never

47:23

have that ambition like I had,

47:26

that energy that just like I'm going

47:28

for it. I felt like that has been

47:30

sort of lost. If not lost,

47:33

it's, you know, there's remnants, but it's sort

47:35

of, it's not like it was. Do you

47:37

feel like that happened with you at all? Sure. And

47:40

once you experience failure, then you can't forget

47:42

that. And if failure goes, you go,

47:44

whoa, okay. So then there's doubt. And

47:46

then that doubt creeps in fears

47:49

and all those anxieties and all those kinds

47:51

of things

47:51

for sure.

47:53

For sure. Yeah. And

47:56

did you, has that happened? Like, were you confident

47:58

on sets when you were acting? Were you enjoying

48:00

it? Were you loving being on set

48:03

and acting and- I love being on set. I

48:05

do love being on set. I direct

48:08

a lot of TV now and I always say- Orange

48:10

is the new black. Yeah, and I said, directing

48:13

is stressful, but acting creates anxiety.

48:16

You know what I mean? Yeah. And I

48:18

find acting, you know,

48:19

so,

48:20

but I love being on a set. I sort of was

48:22

most at home on a set in many ways. And I've

48:25

been on sets for my, since

48:28

I was 18 years old. And so I understand

48:31

that world. I'm like, I'm never bored

48:33

on a set. People talk about boring now. I'm never

48:35

bored on a set. I find it just very

48:38

interesting.

48:39

Yes. Is it weird directing someone

48:41

like, some of you probably were friends with back in

48:43

the day, like James Spader in Blacklist?

48:46

No, I mean, you know, James

48:48

is such a wonderful and peculiar

48:50

guy anyway. I mean, he's, that's all, he's his own

48:52

beast, but, and I just know him so long,

48:54

I have a shorthand with him, so it's nice. But no, I've ever

48:56

acted in the roasts there is. So it's easy

48:59

for me to talk to actors, because I just understand what

49:01

they're doing.

49:03

So. Yeah. Do you ever get,

49:06

have you ever worked with someone where you're like, I

49:09

cannot stand working with this person? I hate

49:11

it. I have to get out of here. I don't want to do it. I'm

49:14

not comfortable. I don't, I'm not, my craft

49:16

isn't coming through because I'm thinking too much now or

49:18

whatever. No, sure. I've had, from acting

49:21

and directing, you say, sure. There are people that are just like, oh

49:23

my, you know, I'm directing somebody. I'm like, this guy's

49:25

terrible. How

49:26

much money is he making every week? You know

49:29

what I mean? And you have to make him look good. Yeah,

49:31

and that's your job. So, you know, so yeah, of course.

49:33

I mean, TV directing, that's a whole nother topic, but it's

49:35

ultimately not a very satisfying job. Why

49:37

is that? Well, you're servicing

49:40

someone, TV is a writer's medium, right? So

49:43

you're servicing someone else's vision. And so if you're gonna

49:45

work that hard, ultimately, it's great, like I always

49:47

call TV

49:48

directing, like going to director gym. Like

49:51

this week you're doing chess, next week you're doing arms,

49:53

because like you're shooting in different styles, different

49:55

kind of. And so that's all very

49:57

interesting, but ultimately, unless you're doing your own.

49:59

thing, it's not very satisfying. And

50:02

they'll just get someone else to do

50:04

it. Once a TV show is up and running, it's just, you're

50:06

making the sausage and

50:08

shows can happen without a director

50:10

very easily. You have a good DP and you have the AD.

50:13

Directs itself, a lot of those. And the actors don't listen to you

50:15

anyway. And so it directs

50:17

itself. And

50:18

there are many examples of people that

50:21

have no idea how to direct that are directing

50:23

TV shows. And the show's good. And you notice,

50:25

you'll watch a show and you'll kind of go, yeah,

50:27

that one was really good, it has flow to it. Because

50:30

TV directing, really what you have is transitions.

50:34

Because every TV show is going to end up in a close up. But

50:37

there are certain things you have. And if you can talk to an actor,

50:39

that's helpful. But ultimately,

50:41

I don't find it utterly satisfying.

50:43

Rewarding work.

50:44

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you listen.

52:02

Greg Beeman worked on

52:04

on small over with me and he

52:07

used to he would shoot this one or I go

52:09

here. Are you going to coverage now? He goes, no,

52:12

it's a winner. I'm like, OK, he's why

52:14

are you doing? Don't they

52:17

get mad? Like, yeah, they want close ups and

52:19

this and that. And I'm like, but now I'm not giving that

52:21

choice. This is this is what I

52:23

want to do. And it tells the story. And now they

52:25

don't have an option. They're not going to cut into the close up because

52:27

they can't.

52:29

And I thought they don't ask him back. Well, he

52:31

did for some reason. He had so much balls

52:33

and cared about the show. Yeah, if you're telling the

52:35

fuck it, I'm doing it. Yeah, no, it's

52:38

great. Yeah, I agree. What's the

52:41

if you have to look back at the one one movie

52:43

that you're most proud of? Oh, I know

52:45

that's hard.

52:46

I don't know. Proud. I don't know what proud means. Less

52:48

than zero. That was a terrible

52:50

experience. I did not enjoy that at all. Well,

52:53

I was in a bad place in my life. Everyone was a script

52:55

was a mess. That I didn't think that was a successful

52:58

movie. And then we had to reshoot

53:00

so much of it because it was right in the middle of Nancy

53:02

Reagan just say no era suddenly. And, you know,

53:04

we had scenes with flushing cocaine down the toilet.

53:07

Because the studio executives realized, oh, this movie

53:09

is being made about our kids.

53:12

No, we can't have that, you know. And there's

53:15

not a word of the book in the movie and stuff. So, you

53:17

know, that movie particularly didn't you know, Bobby

53:19

Downey was great. But he was also, you

53:21

know, a little too close to home for him in that moment

53:24

in time. So he wasn't that easy because he was going

53:26

through all that stuff. Well, he was lovely, but he was just

53:28

going through whatever he's going through. Right. He's always been a very sweet

53:30

guy. Yeah.

53:33

So, but no, that movie didn't fight. I

53:35

say I have great affection for Weekend at Bernie's. I

53:37

think somehow we can pretty much. I love Jonathan Silverman.

53:40

Yeah, he's great. Johnny's a great guy. Great. And you guys look

53:42

to me so much fun in that movie. I remember when it came

53:44

out, it was just so hilarious

53:46

and so original. Yeah, no, I think

53:48

it's great.

53:49

I think it's great. When's the last time you've seen it? And have you watched

53:51

it with any of the with your kid? I can shamelessly

53:53

tell you that I was in a hotel about a month

53:55

ago and I flipped on the TV and I went

53:58

into the bathroom as I turned in.

53:59

I started hearing this voice, I'm like,

54:02

what is that? And I went back in, it was me and

54:04

we came to Bernie's and I watched like the last,

54:06

it was the boat scene of Chasing Dan. So I watched like

54:08

the last 20 minutes of the movie. And in a while,

54:11

dude, I thought it was smiling. I was

54:13

sitting there reciting the lines back to the

54:15

TV alone in my hotel room. And I can't

54:17

remember ever watching a movie of mine like that, ever.

54:21

And it was so, and I thought it was absolutely

54:23

hysterical. I thought it was great. I think every,

54:25

I guarantee I'd put everything I have on it that every

54:28

actor has sat back by themselves and watch something

54:30

of themselves and just had a smile

54:31

or a moment. Oh yeah, but you know,

54:34

for decades, I could never watch any of my

54:36

movies ever. But I was so, it

54:38

was either incredibly narcissistic or healthy when I was

54:40

watching and laughing at myself, thinking how funny

54:42

I was. Is it, I love

54:45

that. Is there a song for many of those,

54:47

do

54:47

you hate hearing those songs when they come up? No,

54:49

they're great. I mean, I hear that. Like OMD,

54:52

wasn't that OMD? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that

54:54

from Pretty in Pink, that song. Right. And

54:56

then the one I hear seemed to hear in the supermarket wherever

54:59

all the time is the mannequin one, nothing's gonna stop

55:01

us now. They used it on the

55:03

Skeleton Twins with Kristen Wiig

55:06

and everything, you don't wanna hear that song? No, I mean, I

55:08

just thought it was always such a cheesy song, but people

55:10

love it. And

55:13

what song I heard recently, I hadn't heard in years was

55:15

the same album as Fire, Man in Motion

55:17

song,

55:17

which is just such a

55:20

cringe, as my son would say. Not

55:22

a Feel the New. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And

55:24

that's just so of a moment. Some

55:27

of those songs have really endured and like become part

55:29

of the popular culture of canon. But

55:31

that one, I think is just such like of that moment

55:33

that it just brings you right back. Yeah,

55:36

and there was the other one, oh, the Psychedelic

55:38

Furs. Yeah, yeah. I love

55:40

them. I still go see them. Isn't she? Yeah,

55:43

no, I thought that was terrific. Yeah, they have a lot

55:45

of great songs actually. In fact, they're gonna be in Florida

55:47

and I just told my uncle, he has got to go

55:50

see them. They're really fun and concert. They've got

55:52

like six or seven songs. People just think it's like

55:54

Pretty in Pink and stuff,

55:55

they have more than that. You've

55:57

been silver since- 2002, July 3rd, 2002. Yeah,

56:00

so 20 years, good 30 years. Do you ever miss

56:02

it? Have you

56:04

ever thought about I'm gonna have a drink? I

56:06

can do this, I can have one drink. Well, I certainly

56:09

never think that. I mean, I

56:11

think once you're, you know,

56:13

a pickle, you can't ever become a cucumber again.

56:16

And I see my obsessive and compulsive

56:18

addictive qualities in other aspects of my

56:20

life. But

56:22

no, you know, I mean, do I miss it? No,

56:24

I mean, I so much because of it. Yes,

56:28

because I stopped drinking and doing drugs,

56:30

my life is infinitely better. But it actually, the it

56:32

itself, having being sort of

56:34

afflicted, if you wanna use that word or

56:37

blessed with alcoholism,

56:39

has, it is

56:41

the foundation from which everything brings

56:44

forward. So I'm grateful, I'm grateful, yes, to

56:46

have stopped doing it in recovery, but

56:48

I'm grateful for it itself because

56:51

it is, you know, what's that old

56:53

Greek line, the crack vase lasts longest in a

56:55

certain way. Everything comes from

56:57

that nugget of, you know,

56:59

and it was a terrible several years and, you know, I let

57:01

it ruin my career, you know, all sorts of things.

57:04

And, but, and I heard people that I

57:06

loved, but I

57:08

look back on it and I carry it every

57:10

day as like what a blessing it is to not

57:12

just recover, yes, of course, but that it

57:14

itself, that I am an uncle. It was a huge blessing.

57:17

Is there, was there one, they always say when you hit

57:19

rock bottom, I had a situation where I was like,

57:21

this is the moment where you stop.

57:24

Was there that or was there just kind of a progression

57:27

and you're like, I gotta, I just, this has got to stop.

57:30

Well, I luckily didn't have, I wasn't

57:32

able to function. So I couldn't

57:34

pretend that it wasn't utterly consuming

57:37

my entire life. So,

57:40

but I did have a moment. Yeah, I had a moment when I

57:42

was sitting in a hotel, I came out to LA to

57:44

do, I don't know if I know what for it to do,

57:46

but I was at the peninsula hotel cause I was in a grandiose

57:49

phase of blowing money, you know, so I'd

57:51

expend lots of money so people wouldn't think there was something wrong,

57:54

so I was in there and I remember being up all night,

57:56

having emptied my mini bar and I just hear, I

57:58

heard a voice say. Andrew,

58:00

you do whatever you want, I'm tired. And it freaked

58:03

me out. I literally was looking under the couch,

58:05

and I was like, who just said that? And

58:08

that just

58:11

cut through to me. And I

58:13

made a call then,

58:15

and I went and got help.

58:18

So it was just sort of a moment. You know, one

58:20

of the few things I've had in my life, gifts I've been

58:23

able to recognize moments when they happened to me. When

58:25

I first started acting in 15, when that moment we

58:27

talked about, and that was another one where I just

58:29

sort of recognized that, and I said, now. You

58:32

know, the call for help can come in a whisper. Wow,

58:35

that's incredible that you heard

58:37

that, or subconsciously you heard that, or whatever

58:39

it was, it pushed.

58:41

I did hear that, and I

58:43

consider myself very blessed in that it

58:45

was lifted from me.

58:47

It was just lifted from me. And

58:49

I consider some kind of grace happened

58:51

to me. And

58:54

I'm not a religious person in any way, but I

58:56

do feel some kind of, because I have proof

58:58

of it in my life. There's no reason why

59:01

I should at all, there's no

59:03

reason why I shouldn't still be drinking,

59:05

or be dead by now, certainly, if I drank the way I did.

59:10

And so I just think grace happened in my life, whatever

59:12

that means, I don't even know what that means. And it's my

59:14

obligation to sort of honor that. Yeah,

59:17

you're so open and honest, man. This is, I mean,

59:20

like, I just, it's awesome.

59:22

It's freaking awesome, thank you for doing that. This is

59:24

called Shit Talkin' with Andrew McCarthy. This

59:26

is fast, rapid fire, it's the end, it's my

59:28

top tier patrons, they're awesome.

59:31

Thanks for supporting the show, patreon.com slash inside

59:33

of you, and you can just rapid fire.

59:35

If you feel like answering it a little longer, feel

59:37

free, you don't have to be like, ah, yes. Kelly

59:41

asks, what's your favorite scene to film on the set

59:43

of St. Elmo's Fire?

59:44

Bongos? Bongos,

59:47

bongos. Bongos. Which I thought, actually,

59:49

when it was finished, I thought, well, I just ruined my career.

59:52

Is that what you thought? Well, it's what

59:54

I said to the DP, and I said, boy, that was a career

59:57

ender, and he said, I think that was a career maker, son.

59:59

And yeah, he was right. Kathy

1:00:02

Jo, what's one of your favorite memories of working with John Hughes?

1:00:06

He used to show up, cause

1:00:08

he didn't direct it, everyone thinks he directed it. He used to show up around

1:00:10

lunchtime, he'd sashay him with a little boombox and he'd

1:00:12

play us little snippets of music and say, what'd you

1:00:14

think of that? What'd you think? And that he was creating

1:00:16

the soundtrack

1:00:17

and he was listening to what we were saying.

1:00:19

Cause that's what Hughes did, he paid the fee on, not

1:00:21

only on screen in real life, he honored, like he

1:00:23

respected kids.

1:00:25

Super Sam, what drew you to the role of

1:00:27

the resident, watching your character

1:00:30

struggle to balance with his addiction while also

1:00:32

needing the drugs to perform his job was incredible.

1:00:35

I just, it was fun to act again. They asked me and

1:00:37

I said, oh, I haven't acted in ages. Let's do that, it would

1:00:39

be fun. Scary?

1:00:41

No, not at all. It felt like, you know, they said

1:00:43

the joke about two fish swimming in the ocean

1:00:45

and one passes the other and says, ain't the water

1:00:47

fine today? And the other says, what water? I

1:00:49

mean, that's what it felt like for me. It just felt like breathing

1:00:52

to me. Going back to it, I really

1:00:54

enjoyed it. Jessica B, of all the TV

1:00:57

shows you've directed, which one was your favorite and why?

1:00:59

I loved doing Orange is New Black at the beginning because it was

1:01:01

a very exciting time. You know, it was like, they

1:01:04

were inventing,

1:01:05

you know, Netflix

1:01:06

was, they were the company that mailed you

1:01:08

DVDs. And you know what I mean? They're making

1:01:11

the show and like, when they said it was gonna be streaming,

1:01:13

I went, okay, cool, what channel is that on?

1:01:15

You know, I couldn't grasp that. And

1:01:18

then when they told me it was gonna be, they were gonna put them all

1:01:20

on in one night. I remember sitting in the producer's office

1:01:22

when I heard that and I said, well, that's the stupidest idea I ever

1:01:24

heard. And you

1:01:25

know, I was right again. And

1:01:28

it just changed the way, you know, we tell stories now. So

1:01:31

that early on was very exciting. Nathan J,

1:01:33

we kind of answered this. Is James Spader an intimidating

1:01:35

person to work with? No, James is

1:01:38

delish. If you don't know what you're doing here each July, but

1:01:41

that's true of so many talented people, you know, they don't

1:01:43

suffer fools. While I was on the set,

1:01:46

we were laughing and one guy came up and said,

1:01:49

what

1:01:50

were you guys like back in the day? And James

1:01:53

just looked at him and said, we're exactly

1:01:55

the same only now we're more so. And

1:01:57

I'm like,

1:01:58

yeah, I don't know what the fuck that means.

1:01:59

Yeah, that's right. That's

1:02:02

amazing. Stone Age. Last question. Did you get to keep

1:02:04

any props from Wicking at Bernie's? One

1:02:06

of your all time favorites or have you ever kept any props? I

1:02:09

did when I was young. I used to keep props, a few, one

1:02:11

thing from each show but I don't remember anything

1:02:13

I have from Bernie.

1:02:14

Oh man. This has been awesome.

1:02:17

Walking with Sam is out. It

1:02:20

will be out. It is out, yeah. It is out. May

1:02:23

9th it came out. So this is the best

1:02:26

time, New York Times best seller list. Yeah.

1:02:29

I know I care about it because I talked about it because

1:02:32

it's so, I want to learn things

1:02:34

and how you deal with family members and

1:02:36

I just think it's a beautiful journey and I can't wait to read

1:02:38

this. Just what I've read about it and

1:02:41

the interviews and things like that and what you've told

1:02:43

me, I just, it's a must

1:02:45

read. You got to do it. And also you

1:02:48

have the Brat Pack documentary that's. Yeah,

1:02:50

that'll be late fall probably. Late fall, you

1:02:52

directed that? Yeah.

1:02:54

Okay, that's late fall. So you

1:02:57

know that's going to be a success. You know everybody and

1:02:59

their mother wants to watch that.

1:03:02

Well, of a certain generation, I think

1:03:04

it has certain immediate appeal

1:03:06

and we'll see. What else do you

1:03:08

want to do? What else did you want to direct more? Do you

1:03:10

want to write more? Are there more books to come? I'm

1:03:13

supposed to be writing a pilot for Sony,

1:03:15

but once the strike's over, we'll get

1:03:18

to that. But so, yeah, I just like to make

1:03:20

stuff.

1:03:20

So

1:03:24

I just keep making stuff. What about, this

1:03:26

is it.

1:03:27

What about today in today's world

1:03:29

when you look back and the movies and the

1:03:31

time and the movies that were being made, the

1:03:34

blockbusters, even the Star

1:03:37

Wars and all these things, when you look

1:03:39

at the geography now of

1:03:42

the movies that are being made, do you like

1:03:45

what's happening? Do you think it's too much?

1:03:47

Are there too many streaming platforms? Do

1:03:49

you get lost in like what the hell is going on?

1:03:51

Do you, is there,

1:03:54

there's just so many options. It's like this menu

1:03:56

that it just never ends. It's all kind of fantastic.

1:04:00

I mean, I think there's so many different rabbit

1:04:02

holes for people to fall down. You know, when I was, the

1:04:05

thing about the Brat Pack, to go back there, there

1:04:07

was only, it was a very unified youth culture.

1:04:09

There was one thing, so everyone knew

1:04:11

the Brat Pack. That's why every one of that, now

1:04:13

there are a million little things. So there isn't that kind of unified

1:04:16

thing, but I think it's fantastic now

1:04:18

all the different stuff that's going on in different

1:04:21

avenues. And, you know, the first thing I ever

1:04:23

heard when I came into show business was, oh, it's so

1:04:25

hard now, it's so hard. You should have been here a few years ago and it

1:04:27

was the auteurs, oh, now it's so, and all

1:04:29

I've ever heard is how hard it is. Always the same. And anybody that

1:04:31

says that to me, I just go, okay, thanks, Sharon. I'm not at all

1:04:33

interested in hearing anything you have to say. You

1:04:35

know what I mean? Don't tell me how hard it is. It's just like,

1:04:38

it's always been hard.

1:04:39

No, but it's always been hard. It'll always be hard. You

1:04:41

know, go do your thing and like, shut

1:04:43

up. You know what I mean? Yeah.

1:04:46

That's the perfect way to end. Do your thing and

1:04:48

shut up. Thanks for

1:04:51

being on here. This was awesome, man. Thank you. Thank you, that

1:04:53

was great.

1:04:55

What can you say? Can't say much

1:04:57

other than great guest. Great

1:05:00

guest. I was a little nervous because he's

1:05:02

an icon. It's like an 80s icon that I, you

1:05:05

know, but he's done so much, you know, he's directing,

1:05:07

he's writing books,

1:05:09

he's just doing it. And I love that people are

1:05:11

following their passion and

1:05:14

it doesn't matter what you've done. It's a matter of

1:05:16

like what you're doing for yourself. You

1:05:19

know what I mean? You could be a big star and all that

1:05:21

stuff, but that's all you got. If you don't have something

1:05:23

on the side, the passion, Ryan, you have something

1:05:25

on the side?

1:05:26

A passion on the side of

1:05:29

this? Yeah. No,

1:05:31

this is it. Passion of the Christ. This

1:05:33

is it. No, do you have, you play guitar.

1:05:36

I play guitar, I'm in several sports records now.

1:05:38

Dodgeball. Dodgeball,

1:05:40

kickball, soccer.

1:05:42

Oh, you're doing it. Softball. Yeah.

1:05:46

Those are passions, those are fun. Yeah,

1:05:49

they are fun. Yeah. Yeah,

1:05:51

I enjoy them. It's nice to get out. Keep doing

1:05:53

them. Big shout out to the top

1:05:55

tier patrons. Thanks for listening. Thanks

1:05:57

to Andrew McCarthy for coming on the podcast,

1:05:59

bro.

1:05:59

And these are the top tier patrons, patreon.com

1:06:02

slash inside of you. These are the guys

1:06:05

that give a lot. And I shout out their

1:06:07

names every episode and

1:06:09

they get packages and YouTube lives

1:06:11

and many more awesome things

1:06:13

perks inside of you.

1:06:16

Patreon.com slash inside. Here we go. Shout outs.

1:06:19

Nancy. D. Leah. Oh

1:06:22

no. Leah. Yes.

1:06:25

Leah K. This time. What?

1:06:28

Leah K. What are you kidding? It's

1:06:30

not. It's got to be Leah S cause she, I think she messaged

1:06:32

me about that. Leah. Leah stubs. Unless

1:06:35

she got married. We need you. No, she's already

1:06:37

married. All right. Two kids

1:06:39

again. Little Lisa. Remember her. She's

1:06:42

awesome. You Kiko. You Kiko

1:06:44

still with us. You Kiko. I miss

1:06:46

you. Jill. Jill.

1:06:49

E. Correct. Brian.

1:06:52

H. Nico. P. Robert.

1:06:56

B. Jason. M.

1:06:59

Raj. C. Joshua.

1:07:02

D. Jennifer. N.

1:07:05

Stacey. L.

1:07:07

Jamal. F. Janelle.

1:07:10

B. Mike. E.

1:07:13

L. Don. Supremo.

1:07:16

L. Dan's. 99 more.

1:07:18

San Diego. I'm San Diego. San

1:07:20

Diego. Chad. D. No.

1:07:24

Well you. What?

1:07:26

What's this? M. P. Maya.

1:07:29

P. Maddie. S. Correct.

1:07:33

Belinda. N. Dave.

1:07:36

H. E. No,

1:07:38

you're right. Okay. M. Michael. It's

1:07:41

Dave. I love Dave. It's only Dave

1:07:43

in it. Dave's a really good guy. He's got a very subtle way of

1:07:45

speaking and I like him a lot. So. Sheila.

1:07:49

G. Brad.

1:07:51

D. Ray. H.

1:07:54

Tabitha. T. Halle.

1:07:57

M. Betsy. D.

1:08:00

I see. I always say that angel M

1:08:02

reanna C Corey L

1:08:05

D F Corey.

1:08:06

It sounds like Corey

1:08:09

Corey C K K

1:08:11

Corey K. Dev next.

1:08:14

Michelle P just think Canadian

1:08:16

or Michelle a a correct. Jeremy

1:08:21

Irons C Jeremy

1:08:23

C. Boakin

1:08:26

Brandy stretch. Brandi

1:08:30

Brandy D correct. You

1:08:32

have a vore for

1:08:34

Joey C M

1:08:37

M Eugene and Leah Corey

1:08:39

L Heather H Heather. Remember

1:08:43

I always say this actress Heather L correct

1:08:46

Jake actor from State Farm

1:08:48

Jake. His father was Gary

1:08:52

B Angela B

1:08:55

F Mel C S

1:08:58

Caroline. Mel

1:09:01

C was one of the Spice Girls Caroline Caroline.

1:09:06

R R and then just remember after R comes

1:09:08

out. So Christine asked Caroline R Christine

1:09:11

as Eric H

1:09:13

Shane R Andrew M Tim

1:09:16

L Oracle Amanda R

1:09:18

Jen B Kevin E Stephanie K

1:09:20

Jorrell Jam and J Lee and

1:09:23

J Luna R Mike F

1:09:25

Stone H Brian L Aaron R

1:09:27

Kendall L Meredith I Cara C

1:09:30

Jessica B Kyle F Marisol

1:09:33

P Andrew M Estevan G Kaylee. J

1:09:36

Brian A Ashley F Marion Louise

1:09:39

L Romeo the band Veronica

1:09:41

Q Frank B

1:09:42

Jen T and Nikki L couldn't do

1:09:45

this without you guys. Thank you so much for the support

1:09:47

and love. I just

1:09:49

message back everybody by the way who just

1:09:51

joined patron I do it hopefully

1:09:53

every month and I message you guys. So

1:09:55

there you go. That's it. Thanks

1:09:57

for listening. Another great episode next week. If

1:10:00

you thought this was great, I did. From

1:10:02

the Hollywood Hills in California, I

1:10:04

am Michael Rosenbaum. I'm Ryan Taitis

1:10:07

from Hollywood, California. Give

1:10:09

a wave. We love you guys. Thank you. Be good to yourself.

1:10:12

I'll see you next week.

1:10:17

Movies, TV shows, books,

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podcasts, and more. It's what women

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binge with Melissa Joan Hart and her friend

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Amanda Lee. If I'm gonna be an actress one day,

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which I don't think I will, I wanna be on Wannabe?

1:10:29

Doesn't everybody wanna be at some point? I don't know.

1:10:31

Really? Just the girl who's done it her whole life. But

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I would wanna be on one of those shows where you get

1:10:36

to keep the wardrobe. Well, you have to steal

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the wardrobe. Let's be clear about this. My motor

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