0:28

You are listening to the

0:28

Inside The Mix podcast with

0:30

your host, Mark Matthews.

0:33

Hello and welcome

0:33

to the Inside the Mix podcast.

0:36

I'm Mark Matthews, your

0:36

host, musician, producer, and

0:39

mix and mastering engineer. You've come to the right place

0:40

if you want to know more about

0:43

your favorite synth music

0:43

artist, music, engineering

0:46

and production, songwriting

0:46

and the music industry.

0:49

I've been writing, producing,

0:49

mixing, and mastering music for

0:51

over 15 years, and I wanna share

0:51

what I've learned with you.

0:56

Okay folks, welcome back to

0:56

the Inside The Mix podcast.

0:59

If you are a new listener of

0:59

the Inside The Mix podcast,

1:02

welcome and don't forget to

1:02

hit that subscribe button.

1:05

And if you're a returning

1:05

listener, welcome back.

1:07

Now in this episode, I'm very excited to welcome my guest today, Brian

1:09

Hazed, aka a Color Theory.

1:13

So he is, or Color Theory

1:13

is a synth pop artist and

1:16

professional mastering engineer with a passion for songwriting and.

1:20

And has amassed more than

1:20

5 million streams across

1:23

streaming platforms. Wow. And he's gonna share with us a

1:24

little about his background and

1:27

several songwriting and music

1:27

production, Pearl of Wisdom.

1:31

Hi Brian, AKA Color Theory. How are you?

1:33

And thank you for joining me today.

1:34

I'm doing wonderful. Thank you for having me.

1:37

Fantastic. Just for our audience listening,

1:37

I always ask this now cuz the

1:40

podcast has a a worldwide reach. Where are you joining

1:42

us from today? I

1:44

am in Huntington Beach, California.

1:45

Oh, brilliant. Uh, what I I, this is

1:46

totally, uh, a British

1:49

thing to say now, but what's the weather like there?

1:52

Uh, actually it's,

1:52

it's not characteristically,

1:56

uh, Southern California. It's, uh, it's over.

1:58

Uh, it's in the, now

1:58

don't, don't make me

2:01

do a Celsius thing. It's in the, it's in the

2:02

mid fifties Fahrenheit.

2:05

Yeah. Right now. So, I mean, it's nice.

2:07

It's, you know, I'm running

2:07

in a t-shirt and shorts,

2:10

but I do that all year

2:11

anyway, so. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, nice.

2:14

It's, um, It's, it's moderately

2:14

overcast here and I think

2:17

it's about 10 degrees. I dunno what that

2:19

is in Fahrenheit. Um, that makes Yeah, two of em.

2:22

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. But, uh, the fact is overcast,

2:24

it's, it's the, like I said

2:27

just then, the reason I ask

2:27

is it's the podcast does.

2:30

I speak to people all over the globe and it's so cool that there's this platform

2:32

available whereby you can

2:35

have these conversations

2:35

and it's, uh, it's amazing.

2:37

I'm always intrigued. I was chatting to you

2:38

somebody earlier in Singapore.

2:41

Um, wow. So, yeah, it's fantastic

2:41

getting to meet people

2:43

all over the globe. Brilliant stuff.

2:46

So color theory, tell

2:46

our audience a bit about

2:49

your sort of musical

2:49

influences growing up.

2:51

Um, which artist song or album

2:51

sort of left an indelible

2:55

mark on you and sort of for,

2:55

made you forge your career,

2:57

your pathway in music?

3:00

Well, my

3:00

first actual music purchase

3:03

was the Eagles Hotel

3:03

California on cassette.

3:07

Um, I wouldn't say that that was

3:07

the one that really got me into

3:11

music, but that's when I started

3:11

having enough interest in music

3:14

to branch off from my parents.

3:17

I think that was right around

3:17

the time where they switched

3:19

over to country music. So the, the album that really

3:21

connected with me the most

3:25

was, it's not gonna be a big

3:25

surprise, was Depeche Mode.

3:29

Um, it was some great reward

3:29

and, um, my best friend and

3:34

I, we would like, he'd, he was

3:34

always introducing me to music.

3:37

We'd play the records,

3:37

we'd like to sit there

3:40

and listen to music. Right. I, I imagine that.

3:42

Mm-hmm. Sit there with the sleeve open

3:43

and the lyrics, and, you know,

3:47

pretty soon we're singing

3:47

along and then sooner or later

3:49

it's like, okay, well I'm

3:49

gonna do the higher harmonies

3:52

when we're singing along. I mean, it was,

3:53

it's pretty silly. Um, so I had somebody, of

3:55

course, was the song that I, I

3:59

really fell in love with, and

3:59

I remember he had a typewriter.

4:03

I, I know I sound really

4:03

old, but it was, it was

4:07

old for the time too. Um, his mom was a professional.

4:12

I don't know the, the

4:12

proper transcriber.

4:15

Transcriber, yeah. Is that really it? So, um, for medical records and

4:17

stuff, so there's a typewriter

4:20

and I love those lyrics so much. I, um, I typed them up,

4:22

um, and I took 'em home and

4:25

I, you know, dubbed it to

4:25

cassette from his record and

4:30

I listened to it all the time. So that was, that was really

4:31

the branching off point for me.

4:36

Amazing. I love the fact you mentioned

4:37

Eagles Hotel California as well.

4:41

Uh, as soon as you said

4:41

that it, it sparked my,

4:43

um, my sort of nostalgia

4:43

from my music influence.

4:46

And when I started playing

4:46

guitar, the, the reason I sort

4:49

of started playing was because

4:49

I wanted to do the, the guitar

4:52

harmonies from Hotel California. Um, at the end I still,

4:54

yeah, still haven't got

4:56

round to actually doing it. To be fair. I then went and pivoted in

4:59

various other directions

5:01

and then obviously you've got the dip hash mode influence there as well.

5:05

And I think it's fair to say

5:05

it's, you can sort of hear that

5:07

in your, in your music and. We'll come onto that in a

5:10

bit, but No, that's brilliant.

5:12

That's brilliant. So, as, as actually a

5:12

musician, do you, do you have

5:16

a, a particular instrument

5:16

that you are sort of

5:20

proficient with or do you

5:20

have multiple instruments?

5:23

Yeah, uh,

5:23

well I am very, very

5:26

proficient at the piano.

5:28

More proficient of course, than I need to be because I got, I actually got a

5:30

degree in piano performance.

5:34

So essentially I went to school

5:34

to be a concert pianist to,

5:38

you know, is what it comes down

5:38

to is what my day looked like.

5:41

So, Uh, yeah, that's

5:41

my main instrument.

5:45

Um, I, uh, played mallet

5:45

percussion in the drum

5:49

line and all the, and all the different instruments for different things.

5:52

And I taught high school

5:52

drum line for a few years.

5:55

So, uh, you know, I'm, I'm

5:55

decent at percussion and,

5:58

and can manage the drum set.

6:01

I, I. Got through, uh, rock band in

6:02

expert mode, the whole thing.

6:08

Fantastic. Can't play a lick guitar.

6:11

I think at one point I could

6:11

play, um, message in a bottle

6:14

by the police, which was

6:14

actually pretty impressive,

6:17

and I could kind of sing it,

6:17

although my, by the end of

6:20

the song, my voice was tired. Um, yeah.

6:23

So that's about it for me. I, you know, I don.

6:26

Consider myself a singer. Of course. That's the most

6:28

important thing I do.

6:29

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's uh, it's an interesting,

6:31

interesting one being a

6:34

singer because I, I every,

6:34

cuz I write my own music

6:37

as well and I always talk with the idea of thinking, you know, what, can I sing?

6:41

Should I give it a go? Um, at what point, cause I'm

6:42

always intrigued by this.

6:44

At what point did you think, actually, you know what I, I, I can sing a letter.

6:48

I'm gonna, I'm gonna throw it down on a, on a record and see what happens.

6:50

Oh, no,

6:51

I, I mean, I was always doing it. Like I had in, in high school,

6:52

I was in a band called The

6:56

Thought Chapter, which I

6:56

named one of my albums after.

7:00

Um, it's just me and a

7:00

friend and his brother.

7:02

And, uh, and I, you know, I sang

7:02

and traded off with, with him.

7:06

And, uh, then I was at a band

7:06

called European White Disco

7:09

in College that was kind of

7:09

like, Wham meets Duran Duran,

7:13

if you could imagine that. Wow. And I sang back up, so I,

7:14

I always sang, but I, I

7:18

never, I'm not lead singer

7:18

material, you know what I mean?

7:20

Like, I'm not going to go in

7:20

on a stage with just me and

7:24

a mike and, you know, yeah.

7:26

Do, do the things. That's just not me.

7:28

Yeah. Yeah. I get you. I get you. Lovely stuff.

7:31

I think what we'll move on to next then is sort of, um, the main item, which

7:33

is surrounded sort of music

7:35

production and a bit of

7:35

writing songwriting about your,

7:38

with regards to your music. So I think it'd be good

7:39

to start off with, with a song in particular.

7:42

So, uh, if you want me

7:42

to be in the title of

7:44

the song, um mm-hmm. Can you just break down for

7:45

our audience, sort like the

7:48

songwriting and composition

7:48

processes or process for

7:52

this particular song? How does a song start for color?

7:56

Yeah. So the, the process between

7:57

songs isn't too different.

8:02

So, and I, I don't wanna

8:02

bore you with a, a huge,

8:06

uh, diatribe on this, but

8:06

basically I have a process

8:10

and then I have a process I'd

8:10

like to do, but I don't do.

8:13

Okay. So the process as it actually

8:14

happens is, you know, like

8:19

most people, I hear about

8:19

people having these unfinished

8:22

ideas and people don't

8:22

finish songs and you see on

8:24

YouTube like how to finish. That is not my problem.

8:28

I do not have extra

8:28

ideas lying around.

8:31

Yeah. For, for me, uh, I have to

8:31

deliver a song every month to

8:37

patrons on Patreon and with

8:37

studio work, you know, you never

8:41

know when that's coming in,

8:41

and that's obviously priority.

8:45

And so sometimes, you know,

8:45

it gets really close to

8:48

the end of the month and

8:48

I've gotta deliver a song.

8:50

Um, so basically, I.

8:53

Writing and recording a

8:53

song in about five days.

8:57

The whole, the whole thing. Yeah. Um, so, okay, so I always start

8:59

from a production snippet and so

9:06

that that's, you know, usually

9:06

just like, Drums, bass, maybe

9:11

some kind of lead arpeggio or

9:11

synth line or just, just enough

9:16

there to establish a feel. Mm-hmm.

9:19

And the reason I do that is,

9:19

you know, naturally I would

9:22

write at the piano and I

9:22

did my first couple albums.

9:26

I wrote them at the piano. And I think what I found is that

9:28

I, I had like reviewers refer

9:32

to it as an album of ballads.

9:34

There's just something about

9:34

writing at the piano that.

9:38

Doesn't necessarily

9:38

translate to, you know, a

9:40

synth pop kind of context. Mm-hmm.

9:43

So I think starting with that

9:43

idea and having a groove in

9:45

mind makes it a lot easier. Um, so I've got that groove.

9:49

Uh, as far as the song itself,

9:49

I, I like to start from a

9:52

title, cuz if you've got a cool

9:52

title that's half the battle.

9:55

Yeah. Um, generally from there,

9:56

uh, I end up producing

10:00

the entire instrumental. So now I've got, I mean, every

10:03

little bit, you know, even

10:06

though the, you know, the

10:06

transitions and sweeps and all

10:11

the, all that kind of stuff. Um, just because by the time

10:13

I record vocals and work

10:17

through the vocals and all that, like, I, I don't want to go back and read, you know,

10:19

and touch up the production

10:22

and add the finishing touches. Mm. Um, okay, so the mel,

10:24

the, the melodies.

10:27

Now I'm gonna poke out at

10:27

the piano or you know, synth

10:30

piano, figure that out,

10:30

write some lyrics, record the

10:33

vocals, mix it, and master.

10:36

And for me, the mastering

10:36

is not a drawn out thing.

10:41

It's really just compression,

10:41

limiting, and dither

10:45

and anything else that

10:45

needs to be addressed.

10:48

I'm gonna go back in the mix and.

10:51

Okay.

10:52

Yeah. That's the process.

10:55

Fantastic. Yeah, so I've, I find it, and

10:55

it is fantastic that you've

10:59

got the, uh, the Paton side

10:59

of things going and you,

11:03

you've given yourself this

11:03

accountability there to,

11:05

to writing these songs and. I love, I love that idea.

11:09

And then it's almost like you, well you have got a deadline, haven't you?

11:12

To write this song? Yeah. For your Pat, pat,

11:13

Patreon, Patreons.

11:16

Um, and also the idea that

11:16

you have no extra ideas

11:20

lying around, which I

11:20

think's interesting as well,

11:22

cuz it's sort of mirrors. I don't have a pat and I'm not,

11:23

I'm not, um, releasing music in,

11:26

in that sort of format, but it.

11:29

I personally as well, I don't have loads of ideas lying around.

11:32

I sort of focus on one

11:32

particular idea, or maybe

11:35

two or three that are gonna

11:35

form a cohesive piece rather

11:38

than have multiple ideas. Um, I mean, the fact that

11:40

you, you don't have loads of

11:44

ideas lying around, do you

11:44

think that's why you find

11:46

it so much easier to, to

11:46

finish a song so you're not

11:48

getting dis distracted by

11:48

sort of like shiny objects?

11:52

This other idea that I've got

11:52

over there, um, how do you

11:54

stay focused on one, just one.

11:56

Well, the,

11:56

the deadline is, is very

11:59

persuasive, as we mentioned. Yeah.

12:02

So, I mean, it's been, it's

12:02

been six years now on Patreon,

12:05

so that's, uh, what, 62 songs.

12:10

Did I do that right? No, that can't be right. Yeah, that, uh, Why am I

12:11

having trouble with this?

12:14

No, 60 is five years, right? Mm-hmm. So 72, 72 songs, 72 tracks.

12:19

So it works really well. Before Patreon, it took me

12:21

six years to do an album

12:24

because I would just keep

12:24

rehash, you know what I mean?

12:27

You, you finish the last

12:27

song and then you go back

12:30

to the first song and you're like, well, that's not up to the standard

12:31

of the last song anymore.

12:34

I need to touch that up. And then you, it's

12:35

just an endless cycle. Um, so yeah, I think.

12:40

Sit down and, and do it

12:40

cuz it's gotta be done.

12:43

Mm-hmm. And I don't, I'm probably

12:43

not gonna abandon an, an

12:46

idea because even if the

12:46

song isn't great, you know,

12:51

it's still gonna be up to

12:51

a standard I establish.

12:55

And if it's a patron exclusive

12:55

that's, that's even kind of

12:59

cooler, you know what I mean? Like, then that's something

13:00

special that they get that

13:02

nobody else gets to hear. Maybe a different side

13:03

of me that doesn't, you

13:06

know, kind of mesh with the

13:06

public, you know, profile.

13:10

Yeah. Yeah, it is. That, that's great.

13:12

I, I love that. And I think the fact

13:13

that you are releasing so many, so many songs.

13:16

I mean 60, what did we say? 72 songs? 72 in 60 years.

13:20

Over, over, yeah, over six years is amazing. And I like the idea that you

13:22

sort of, you plow on through

13:26

and com complete a song and it kind of mirrors the conversation I had with, uh,

13:28

with Ed's sunglasses kit before

13:31

Christmas in 20, in 2022,

13:31

where he said the same thing.

13:34

It's kind of like you, you,

13:34

you might hit a brick wall.

13:37

You might think, actually this song isn't quite doing it for me, but just

13:38

persevere and break through

13:40

and write that song anyway. Cause you dunno what's gonna

13:41

happen on the other end.

13:44

Which I think is a great thing

13:44

for our audience because I know

13:46

I, I do chat and I interact with

13:46

a lot of the audience and the

13:50

idea of not finishing songs is

13:50

one of their main pain points

13:54

is, is finishing a song and also

13:54

thinking, actually, you know

13:57

what, I'm gonna start something

13:57

else cuz I've got a better idea.

13:59

But just, yeah, I, I mean

13:59

I've, I've fallen foul of

14:02

that, but in 2023 I've made

14:02

a point now of thinking.

14:04

I'm gonna write a song. I've got 30 minutes a

14:06

day I'm gonna dedicate to

14:08

songwriting and I'm gonna break the back of the song. I'm gonna get through and

14:10

do it, and it, and it's, I'm

14:12

reaping the awards from it. It's, and the podcast does help.

14:15

I speak to so many artists like

14:15

yourself, and it's great for me

14:18

in the audience cuz I can take

14:18

all this information, absorb

14:21

it, pick the pieces I want. And create this, this amazing

14:22

workflow, which is fantastic.

14:26

So with regards to your

14:26

composition, so we've,

14:29

sorry, we've been through the composition process, so with mixing as well.

14:32

So you've, you've, you're

14:32

doing all that in five days.

14:35

How do you, sort of, the mixing

14:35

process, how do you get it?

14:41

For one of a bay way of putting it. How do you get it

14:42

done so quickly? It's,

14:44

it's not really a process. Um, so the, the best example

14:46

of that would be, um, you know,

14:50

I, I dunno if you saw this, I,

14:50

I released a cover of Depeche

14:54

Mode's ghost, again, within

14:54

12 hours of them releasing it.

15:00

Um, no, I haven't seen this. Yeah.

15:02

So I found out, uh, I think

15:02

I, I was emailing people who.

15:09

Stuff on Band Camp. You know, I like to send

15:11

a personal email every

15:13

time somebody does that. Mm. And somebody replied and

15:15

then just mentioned, Hey,

15:18

the new, looking forward to the new Depeche mode single tomorrow morning

15:20

or tomorrow or something.

15:22

I was like, what? Okay. I, I, I mean, I knew they had

15:23

an album coming out, but I tried

15:26

to stay away from social media,

15:26

so I didn't know that it was

15:29

actually coming out at that day. So I went for my run,

15:30

came back, looked for the

15:33

song, it wasn't there. And I saw on YouTube

15:35

it was gonna come out like in 20 minutes.

15:39

So I, I, um, you know, got a

15:39

drink, hug out, heard the song.

16:05

I was like, oh, I

16:05

kind of like this.

16:08

I, I think I could do something with this. And I just threw everything

16:09

aside and there it is.

16:12

So the, the mixing isn't

16:12

really a separate process.

16:15

Um, like I don't rough

16:15

everything out with sounds

16:20

and just hope to fix it later.

16:23

You know, I've gotta hear how

16:23

it's going to sound in context.

16:26

So I'm always kind

16:26

of mixing as I.

16:30

Yeah, I can see how that would make, uh, sort of expedite the

16:32

process and make it quicker.

16:35

So with regards to mixing, are

16:35

there, have you got any sort

16:37

of like top tips for if, if

16:37

for producers out there, the

16:40

audience are listening, who are

16:40

writing and mixing as they go?

16:44

Have you got any sort of

16:44

top tips or maybe a top

16:47

tip for producers, artists

16:47

that are doing that?

16:50

Well, I've, I've maybe a controversial one, so I've got just a load.

16:55

Advice that is me as

16:55

a mastering engineer.

17:00

Mm-hmm. Telling clients to do

17:00

so that their mixes

17:03

are prepared properly. Perfect. The worst thing that they can

17:05

do is to mix through compression

17:11

and limiting, because they

17:11

wanna know how it's gonna sound.

17:15

I know this is controversial. A lot of people swear by it.

17:18

Uh, what happens is

17:18

they do that and.

17:23

To me if they're gonna

17:23

compress the whole mix.

17:26

Anything you do to the

17:26

whole mix is kind of by

17:28

definition mastering. Yeah. In, in my opinion, right?

17:31

Mm-hmm. Because that's, it's

17:32

done on the master. It's performed on the master.

17:35

So if you're gonna compress

17:35

it before you give it to

17:38

me, My hands are tied. A, as far as I'm concerned,

17:40

the the attack and release

17:43

characteristics of your

17:43

compressor are permanently

17:46

imprinted on the whole mix. I'm not gonna be able to get

17:47

the punch out of it that I want.

17:51

So then, then, and you know,

17:51

I, I usually hear things like,

17:54

oh, it's only like, you know,

17:54

two or three db, which is huge.

17:59

Like, like, to give you a

17:59

perspective, I use, um, unison

18:03

mastering compressor as, as. My main, uh, tool for

18:06

mastering, and it's the most

18:10

intimidating plugin ever. It's got, it's amazing the

18:12

way that you can fine tune

18:16

the detection circuit at

18:16

different frequency bands to

18:19

respond to the mix, but it's

18:19

only a broadband compressor.

18:22

It's not multi-band. But yeah. Anyway, one of the features

18:24

is you can, um, set a,

18:28

a limit on compress. Um, so I have it set to two

18:30

db, like it will never compress

18:34

more than two B two db because

18:34

I've, I've set that as a limit.

18:39

So when people say, oh, it's

18:39

just a couple DB before they

18:41

send it to me, it's like, well,

18:41

okay, I I, there's nothing left.

18:45

Yeah. So I would just, I just,

18:45

my advice is always don't

18:49

mix through compression and

18:49

limiting, it's a crutch.

18:52

Get it right in the mix. Um, so that, that

18:54

would be my number one.

18:58

Oh, brilliant. So what about, so not

18:59

necessarily a devil's

19:03

advocate here, but Sure. What about, uh, producers

19:04

that are mixing into, I

19:07

dunno, some form of like,

19:07

I dunno, tape emulation

19:09

or something like that. Would you advise? Oh, that's the worst.

19:13

Would you advise then, like,

19:13

leaving that mix bus empty.

19:18

Yes.

19:19

Yeah. Yeah. Well, okay. The, uh, so if you want, well,

19:20

tape emulation, not so much, but

19:24

I mean, if you want, if you want

19:24

some sort of glue compression on

19:27

the drum bus, I mean, go for it.

19:30

Of course. That's not what I'm saying. I'm not, I'm not saying

19:32

don't use a compressor

19:34

anywhere in your mix. I'm just saying. Of course. Yeah.

19:36

Just not on the master bus. Yeah. Um, tape emulation.

19:41

You know, it's,

19:41

it's compression.

19:44

Yes. Somewhat, depending

19:45

on how you hit it. It's adding harmonics,

19:47

so it's a saturated,

19:50

depending on how you hit it. Um, I again would say if we

19:51

want that color, it would

19:56

be better for me to apply it

19:56

after I do my other stuff.

20:02

Yeah. Um, there's a really

20:02

cool, again, in unison,

20:05

there's a little. Button called Hige, I think

20:07

is how it's pronounced.

20:11

I think it's like a, you

20:11

know, a Scandinavian thing.

20:13

I don't, I don't know. I think it means

20:14

sweet or something. But anyway, it's just, it's just

20:16

a little, um, Kind of transistor

20:20

circuit that accomplishes a lot

20:20

of the same thing that I can.

20:24

That just sounds amazing that,

20:24

you know, if I get something

20:27

that's really cold and sterile,

20:27

it doesn't happen much these

20:31

days, but you know, like I

20:31

just mastered a 20 year old

20:33

album and, and converters were

20:33

different back then, so, Hmm.

20:37

I really helped warm that up.

20:39

So I've got tools on my

20:39

end of course, to do that.

20:41

And I. I would just say, you know

20:43

what I do when somebody really

20:47

insists on having that is I

20:47

say, okay, can you send me the

20:50

mix both ways with the tape

20:50

amul emulation without, and so

20:55

I know what you're going for. And then I will do, hopefully

20:56

prove to them that it was

21:00

better without, but yeah,

21:02

you know. Brilliant. So going back to what you

21:04

said earlier then about, uh,

21:07

when you are mixing, see you

21:07

are effectively and, and how

21:11

when you're mixing your own music and then you master. After thereafter, you, you

21:13

mentioned there about you

21:17

go back and fix in the mix

21:17

rather than fixing the master.

21:21

And obviously that is,

21:21

that makes perfect sense.

21:24

So just to touch on your,

21:24

your mastering chain again,

21:26

of what you are using in your

21:26

particular, um, mastering

21:31

for our audience listening

21:31

and if they are doing their

21:35

mastering at home, this

21:35

sort of DIY mastering,

21:38

have you got any advice? Maybe again, a, a top tip if

21:39

they're mastering their own.

21:43

Yeah, what would be your top tip there?

21:45

Well, okay, uh,

21:45

so you, if I ramble, you'll

21:48

need to stop me, but No go. I've got a little bit of

21:49

a preach it kind of thing.

21:52

So I would, I would stay away

21:52

from AI mastering at all costs.

21:57

I actually. Consulted on Landers

21:59

engine for a while.

22:01

Um, and you've seen like the

22:01

latest ozone has basically

22:06

AI mastering built in. Mm-hmm.

22:08

Um, so you get a little better

22:08

idea of how it works and,

22:12

um, Those processes and, and

22:12

this is, goes for plugins

22:18

like Gofo or Sooth two.

22:21

Mm-hmm. Any of these plugins that

22:22

are in real time, pushing

22:26

your mix towards a certain

22:26

spectral balance that

22:30

they've predetermined is

22:30

appropriate for your genre.

22:33

Right. So if you've got. You know, EDM preset.

22:38

Then they've, they've decided

22:38

like, here's a tonal shape

22:41

for the whole mix that, that

22:41

we see across the number of

22:44

E D M hits, which, I mean,

22:44

the, the methodology sounds

22:47

like it makes sense, right? So, yeah.

22:50

Yeah. We want it to sound like a hit. So let's just keep

22:51

pushing your mix in that

22:53

direction the whole time. Um, wh where it falls apart

22:55

though, is, you know, if you've.

23:00

Say the third verse, you dropped

23:00

the kickout for eight bars

23:03

because you know you're trying

23:03

to build up some tension and

23:06

you want that to sound softer. Well, these plug-ins don't know

23:07

that, so they're gonna push, you

23:12

know, the, the low end up now

23:12

to try to get you towards that.

23:16

Shape that really

23:16

doesn't apply anymore.

23:19

Yeah. Or if the high hat drops

23:19

out, you know, and what now?

23:22

Now we gotta push all the highs,

23:22

the sibilance is coming up.

23:24

So just philosophically it

23:24

just doesn't make any sense.

23:29

So, um, that would

23:29

be the main thing.

23:32

So, You know, ozone

23:32

like isotopes.

23:35

Really cool. Somebody from there emailed

23:36

me like a few years ago and

23:38

said, Hey, is there anything

23:38

from our collection you want?

23:41

And I said, no. And then, and then I think just

23:43

like maybe six months ago I saw

23:48

the latest one and there was. There's a tool in there.

23:51

I don't know if you've seen this. It, um, you can specifically

23:52

raise the level of the bass.

23:58

The vocal Yes. Or the drums.

24:00

I have seen this. Yep. And I was like, oh,

24:01

that looks cool.

24:04

So I, I said, Hey, does

24:04

that offer still stand?

24:07

Yep. They sent me a, a code for the,

24:07

the full, like top level ozone.

24:12

So I've experimented with that. I've used it.

24:15

I used it on that 20 year old record. I mean, it was basically, you

24:18

know, it, it was thrashed.

24:21

I was just trying to, you know,

24:21

get, get what I could from it.

24:24

And there were some really

24:24

interesting tools there.

24:28

Um, so the main thing there

24:28

is if, if you're gonna

24:30

master yourself, like. You don't have to

24:32

use all the modules.

24:34

Yeah. Yeah. And think really hard if you

24:36

need multi-band, like the

24:41

real world is not multi-band.

24:43

We don't split things up and,

24:43

you know, and bounce them off

24:47

walls differently or Yeah. You know what I mean?

24:49

Like, it's just, especially

24:49

for, for people in the synth

24:54

wave world, we're trying to,

24:54

you know, create an 80 sound

24:58

with tools that didn't exist.

25:00

It it. Doesn't make a whole

25:02

lot of sense, so. I, you know, I use, um,

25:04

broadband, as I mentioned

25:08

with Unison Compressor. I, it has multi-band detection

25:09

circuits, but all the

25:13

compression is broadband, and I

25:13

think that makes the most sense.

25:16

So I would stay away, you

25:16

know, when, if I'm going

25:20

multi-band, it's because

25:20

I'm solving a problem.

25:22

You know, the, the high hats

25:22

like, Maybe they're fine,

25:27

but when the shaker comes

25:27

in, in addition to the hi

25:29

hats, now, it's crazy loud. And so, and, and I can't get

25:30

them to fix it in the mix.

25:34

The, the big thing with me as a mastering engineer, the, the difference I think

25:36

between me and most people

25:38

is that we go back and

25:38

forth and fix it in the mix.

25:42

And that makes my job easy. Like, I'm not, I'm not here to

25:44

show off all the cool toys that

25:48

I have to, you know what I mean? To demonstrate the

25:49

way that I can. You know, work around all

25:52

the problems you've created.

25:56

I, I wanna get it right. And then what happens is

25:58

over time then the people who

26:00

work with me come back with

26:00

better and better mixes and

26:03

it's easier for everybody. So, yeah.

26:06

Yeah, I would just say, you know, if you're good at do it yourself, air less is more.

26:10

Um, you, compression is

26:10

the main sound, the main

26:15

difference between a mastered

26:15

mix and an unmastered mix.

26:19

So you're gonna, Same

26:19

compression, and of course

26:22

you're gonna need limiting and

26:22

dither at the end of the stage.

26:24

Mm-hmm. And, um mm-hmm. Anything else?

26:27

If you can fix it in the mix,

26:27

I, I say fix it in the mix.

26:31

Yeah. Great advice. Um, totally agree with that.

26:34

With regards to fixing

26:34

it, fixing it in the mix.

26:36

And it's sort of echoes a

26:36

conversation I had a few weeks

26:38

ago whereby we went through

26:38

the phases of recording,

26:41

mixing, mastering, and how

26:41

get it right at source when

26:44

you're recording so you're not

26:44

having to fix it in the mix

26:46

and then get it right in the. So you're not then having to

26:48

fix it in the master and it

26:50

just ma, it just makes sense. Going back to what you

26:52

said there about multi-band compression, actually no.

26:55

Before I move on to that bit, I

26:55

really like what you said about

26:57

how, where we're creating music

26:57

that existed in the eighties.

27:02

We're using tools that

27:02

didn't necessarily exist.

27:05

And I'd never thought of it that way. And I really like that idea.

27:08

And I think for the audience listening, if you think about it that way, when you're next

27:09

time you're producing a song, just only use tools that might,

27:11

I mean, you're not, probably not

27:15

gonna have, they're necessarily

27:15

have those tools to hand, but

27:17

maybe limit yourself to tools

27:17

that you think would've been

27:19

around in that particular time

27:19

and see what you come up with.

27:21

I think that's a great idea. So with regards to

27:23

multi-band compress, Why

27:26

do you think multi-bank? Because I've heard, uh, a

27:28

few people say that now audio

27:31

engineers, mix engineers, mastering engineers about multi-bank compression and

27:32

how not, I mean, you, you

27:37

can use it, but they kind

27:37

of recommend not using it.

27:40

Why do you think there is,

27:40

uh, a, a sort of a pocket

27:43

of people that like to push

27:43

multi band compression?

27:46

Yeah, I, I don't know. I, I keep up, I, lately

27:48

I've tried to keep up

27:52

with quote unquote modern

27:52

production techniques.

27:55

Mm. You know, watching because I,

27:55

I honestly, I kind of stopped

28:02

upgrading my tools doing, and,

28:02

and this is another discussion

28:06

for later, but hardware, since

28:06

I hadn't kept up with at all

28:09

for like 20 years, basically.

28:12

So lately I've, I've kept up

28:12

with, Uh, hardware tools, you

28:16

know, doll list kind of setups,

28:16

and, and those k and just synths

28:21

and with the latest plugins.

28:24

And that's why I, I just

28:24

feel, uh, so adamant against

28:28

some of these, you know,

28:28

uh, tools that are there

28:31

to tame what they call,

28:31

you know, nasty resonances.

28:35

Mm. If, if you'll per me just

28:36

to explain that a little

28:39

more cuz that's Yeah. Go, go for it. I feel like that is so key.

28:41

Like people now I

28:41

see it everywhere.

28:44

Like I just saw a little,

28:44

um, uh, a mix demonstration

28:48

from the guy who mixed the

28:48

weekends after hours and it's

28:51

on this site called Mix with

28:51

the Masters, which, yeah.

28:54

Yeah. Looks cool. So he goes through the, the

28:55

chain, uh, the mastering

28:59

chain and the vocal chain. And, and I.

29:02

It's amazing to me the record

29:02

sounds as good as it does, uh,

29:05

you know, cuz he goes through a

29:05

clipper and he is got, um, but

29:08

he's got gold os on the master

29:08

and you just see that thing

29:12

like it's got this huge spike

29:12

pushing up at 12 k like the

29:15

whole way Bob and up and down

29:15

at 12 K and it's like, you know,

29:19

in gold os you can't actually

29:19

restrict the frequency range.

29:23

So it doesn't, you

29:23

know, that's obviously

29:25

not what, what we want.

29:27

Um, so, but here's the thing. Okay. So.

29:31

Acoustically. This idea of resonances being a

29:32

problem just doesn't hold water.

29:38

You know, if, if I'm

29:38

singing, if the song is

29:40

in the Kyiv G mm-hmm. And the bass guitar is playing

29:42

a G and I'm singing a G,

29:45

you're gonna see frequencies

29:45

that correspond with G.

29:49

Yeah. All over. That's what we want.

29:52

That that is a

29:52

feature, not a bug.

29:55

We don't need to tame that. So if I, let's, let's

29:56

turn this around.

29:58

What if I said to you, I

29:58

have a tool that will turn

30:02

up every note that is out

30:02

of key with your song.

30:06

Would you like to use it? I hope that you would say no.

30:10

I would. I would say no to that. I would say no.

30:13

Yeah, a hundred

30:14

percent. Yeah. But that's what we're signing up for. So, and now I lost what the

30:16

question was, cause I'm just

30:19

so passionate about this.

30:20

Yeah, I think it was, it started off with multi-bank compression.

30:23

Why? Why, uh, why? Uh, some, some producers,

30:26

engineers, et cetera, advocates

30:29

are multi-bank compression. Um, but what you said

30:30

there about resonance

30:32

is, is fantastic. Um, but yeah, it was

30:33

multi-bank compression.

30:36

Yeah. I, I, um, I can see.

30:39

Yeah, I see it too in

30:39

Ableton, like a lot,

30:41

uh, they split it up. Uh, with that, you know, there,

30:43

there are built-in audio.

30:46

I dunno. You use Logic I think.

30:49

I'm trying to remember. Yeah, yeah, I do. Yes. Yeah, I, I own Logic.

30:52

I bought it because it's cheap

30:52

price, 1 99 and I bought it cuz

30:56

I had clients that I was like,

30:56

oh, you know, use Logic, great.

30:59

Send me your project. I'll mix it in logic and.

31:02

Man, just trying to learn

31:02

two sets of key commands.

31:04

It, it does not work. But, um, anyway, yeah, so the

31:05

multi band thing, I mean, I

31:10

used to kind of experiment

31:10

with it in mastering and

31:13

it, it was interesting. It's, it's arbitrary of

31:15

course, where you chop up

31:18

the bands and it can kind

31:18

of make sense, like if you.

31:23

Uh, let's say you're recording

31:23

a vocal and the vocalist

31:26

is too close to the mic

31:26

and you've got proximity

31:28

effect, and that's coming in

31:28

more on the lower register.

31:33

Well then sure. Uh, there's a particular

31:34

frequency range that really is the problem.

31:38

Let's do that. Another option then would

31:38

be a dynamic eq, right?

31:41

Where you can fine tune just

31:41

that frequency range and

31:45

not necessarily chop up the

31:45

whole spectrum into bands.

31:49

Hmm. Um, so I mean, obviously

31:49

there, there are times

31:52

where you want to treat

31:52

certain frequency ranges

31:56

and not others dynamically,

31:56

and that can make sense.

31:59

I. Don't like, I mean, the

32:00

worst was back in the,

32:04

when the L three came out,

32:04

the waves L three, right?

32:06

Yeah. So you had the multi band

32:07

limiter and it, you know, I was

32:10

like, oh, wow, this is amazing. And you turn it up and it's

32:11

like, oh, where did my base go?

32:14

You know, it just, yeah,

32:14

right, because most of the

32:16

energy's in the low ed,

32:16

so it just, it, um, yeah.

32:20

So I, I would say, Not to

32:20

never use multi-band, but to

32:25

think really hard about why you

32:25

need it for this application.

32:28

And um, and there are

32:28

applications, but I very

32:33

rarely reach for it. Mm-hmm.

32:35

Yeah. Fantastic. Thanks for your insight on that.

32:37

I'm, I'm always intrigued cuz. I get, like I said earlier,

32:40

I get to speak to so many

32:42

different people and you see

32:42

all these different resources

32:44

and um, it's, it's quite

32:44

nice when I get you, you hear

32:47

different sides of, of the,

32:47

uh, the coin, so, so to speak.

32:50

I think I mixed metaphors there. Um, but, but it's interesting

32:52

you mentioned dynamic EQ

32:55

because that was gonna be a question of mine actually, what your thoughts are on

32:57

dynamic eq because I've, once again, I've heard some.

33:01

Some individuals sit on the fence, but some are pro, some are against Dynamic iq.

33:05

I mean, is, is, what are

33:05

your thoughts on dynamic iq?

33:07

Uh,

33:07

again, I rarely use it.

33:10

I'm thinking about, I have one. Uh, bluegrass singer that I

33:12

work with, I've worked with

33:16

for many years, and she's got

33:16

a, there's little kind of,

33:21

nasals not the right word,

33:21

it's above nasal, but it's not

33:24

a tone that creeps into her

33:24

voice that I find, you know,

33:29

her most, uh, pleasing asset.

33:31

And so I. Sometimes hit that in pro

33:35

Q3 with a dynamic band.

33:39

The difference is, so you can

33:39

set, um, with Pro q3, you, if

33:44

you just turn it on, it's gonna

33:44

kind of always be compressing

33:48

to some degree in that band. Mm-hmm.

33:51

So instead I like to take it off

33:51

auto mode and set a threshold

33:55

so that it's only doing the

33:55

work when that particular, you

34:00

know, problem area jumps in. Um, so again, it's really

34:02

just a, a problem solver.

34:06

Yeah. Yeah. A as for wind, and that's

34:07

about, I mean, really I so

34:11

rarely use it, and I wanna

34:11

say I, I am a bit of a purist

34:16

and a minimalist, and I think

34:16

that there are probably cases

34:21

where I could get over myself

34:21

a little bit and use tools

34:26

like that more judiciously,

34:26

and they might benefit the

34:30

final sound a little bit. The, the, the byproducts of that

34:33

approach would kind of haunt me.

34:39

Like I would hear it and

34:39

it would kind of bug me.

34:41

You know what I mean? And Yeah. Yeah. And the same way, like I

34:42

had mentioned that, um,

34:46

you know, these taming

34:46

resonances doesn't make sense.

34:51

It doesn't mean that if you

34:51

slap gofo on a mix, It's

34:57

gonna sound worse necessarily.

35:00

Right? So, so there's a difference

35:00

between kind of having

35:03

a philosophical problem

35:03

and, you know, agreeing

35:07

that it has its uses or it

35:07

can, uh, flatter a, a mix.

35:13

I dunno. It's so funny you see that the

35:13

guys, at least what I've seen

35:17

in mastering is they'll, they'll

35:17

put it on, they'll be, oh, we

35:19

just need this little tiny bit. And it's like so much

35:21

you can barely hear it. It's like, okay, really do.

35:24

Did that really add anything? Yeah.

35:27

So

35:28

yeah, I, I agree

35:28

and I think I'm very much, uh,

35:32

in a similar camp to yourself

35:32

with regards to the mini

35:35

minimalist approach and not

35:35

over or complicating things.

35:38

And from what you've said there,

35:38

and I dunno, I, uh, from what

35:41

I've seen and experienced is,

35:41

is there a case to say, As when

35:47

we're mixing or rather than

35:47

being creative, um, are we,

35:50

are we, are, are, is it that

35:50

we're just seeking problems and

35:55

trying to fix something that

35:55

might nec not necessarily exist

35:57

because we've got all, because

35:57

you see all these, like you

36:00

mentioned there with ozone and

36:00

these various different modules

36:03

that you can put in ozone and

36:03

then you're seeing them, you

36:05

think, oh, I need to use that. I need to go and find a problem

36:07

so I can use this module to show

36:11

that I can use ozone because

36:11

we have all these things.

36:13

And then is there a case to

36:13

say, Yeah, we might be mixing

36:17

by roach rather than actually

36:17

creatively, if that makes sense.

36:22

Yeah. I mean, I don't think

36:22

that's a danger for me.

36:25

I think it can really

36:25

be a danger if you're

36:27

actually using presets. Yeah.

36:29

You know what I mean? Like presets on EQ

36:29

and compression don't.

36:32

Really makes sense. I mean, maybe a preset, uh,

36:33

you know, on a compressor for

36:38

drums of the starting point

36:38

for the attack and release,

36:40

but even that's gonna,

36:40

you know, change things.

36:43

But, but yeah, there is,

36:43

there is a mindset that we

36:46

need to just get in there

36:46

and, and maximize, like wider

36:50

is always better, right? I want more width.

36:52

Mm-hmm. Um, That's, you know,

36:53

or even, even things

36:57

that, that are helpful. For example, mono, your low end.

37:02

Yeah. Um, I do, we have to

37:02

do it with every track.

37:06

Like I admit, like I, I use,

37:06

um, baseline Pro, I don't know

37:11

if you know Tone Projects. Baseline Pro.

37:13

I know of Tone projects, but not of,

37:15

not of that particular, oh man, their stuff is great. So they, they're the same

37:17

company that make the Unison Mastering Compressor.

37:20

They also have, um,

37:20

Kelvin, which is a, um,

37:24

a dual stage saturater. That's really cool.

37:26

But. Anyway, like, I like to

37:28

check mixes with Baseline

37:31

Pro, but I don't feel like

37:31

everything, unless it's, I

37:35

know it's going to vinyl. Like not everything has to be

37:36

in mono, below a hundred hertz.

37:40

You know, if it, if it

37:40

doesn't make it sound better.

37:44

Um, so yeah, I think we

37:44

can maybe get a little

37:47

dogmatic sometimes and,

37:47

and or want to use all the

37:50

toys or, I mean, I don't do

37:50

this, but I could imagine

37:54

going so far as to create. A checklist, you know, for

37:55

each element or each bus of

37:59

things we need to put on or

37:59

check for or, um, fine tune.

38:03

And as long, I think at the end,

38:03

as long as you're using your

38:07

ears and as long as you don't,

38:07

you, you're not listening to the

38:11

same track a thousand times and

38:11

then trusting your ears because

38:15

we know how that works, right? You've, you've gotta kind of get

38:16

in and get out to some degree.

38:20

Before you lose your objectivity. So I think if you can trust

38:22

your ears, work quickly, uh,

38:26

and in a perfect world, set

38:26

it aside and come back in a

38:29

month and double check the mix,

38:29

then um, you're probably not

38:33

gonna get go too far off base.

38:36

No. Brilliant. And, um, it's, it's great that

38:37

you mentioned that about, uh,

38:40

modeling instruments below

38:40

100 hertz or 80 hertz, because

38:44

I had, um, uh, this exact

38:44

conversation with someone,

38:48

uh, earlier today actually. Uh, we were talking about, uh,

38:49

the low end and how they wanted

38:52

it to sound in a particular way. And I looked at the,

38:54

the project and. Can you show me what

38:56

you're doing in this particular instrument?

38:58

Can you show me what, what

38:58

you're doing in that, in

39:01

that frequency spectrum? And is, I pretty much just said

39:02

exactly what you said there is

39:05

you don't necessarily, there

39:05

is no rule that says that you,

39:09

everything has to be mono there. Maybe try, try it not in

39:10

mono and see what happens.

39:14

And I, once again, I

39:14

effectively said what you said.

39:17

If it sounds good,

39:17

it is good, you know.

39:20

So it's brilliant and it's,

39:20

it's great when I, when I,

39:24

it's great for me when I give someone that information, that advice, and then I hear

39:26

it from someone, uh, producer

39:29

mix, head mastering engineer,

39:29

associate yourself as well.

39:31

So it's great that I, my, my,

39:31

uh, advice is sort of backed

39:35

up there, which is brilliant. Um, Brian, well, I aware

39:37

of time here, so what, what

39:40

I wanted to move on to. Because this information's been

39:41

fantastic, is you've released

39:44

a single, uh, the serious one. Mm-hmm. Maybe just a bit of

39:46

information on that one there. Can you just explain to our

39:48

audience a bit about that

39:50

particular song, the start of

39:50

the song, um, and what they can

39:53

expect if they haven't heard it?

39:54

Yeah. The, so this was a tricky mix.

39:58

Um, it had started

39:58

in a weird way.

40:01

I was kind of looking for some

40:01

different drum sounds and, uh,

40:07

Pulled in a 6 0 6 from Ableton,

40:07

and instead of just pulling

40:12

in the drum samples, I think

40:12

I pulled in a pattern like, I

40:16

don't know if it was from some

40:16

other source, but um, and it

40:20

had all these crazy like 16th

40:20

note symbol hits that was just,

40:25

it was totally overbearing,

40:25

but it was kind of cool too.

40:28

And so, Worked from that

40:28

and, you know, eliminated

40:32

half of the, the hits. But so that, that's kind of

40:34

where that one started from.

40:38

And I'm not ever gonna use a 6

40:38

0 6 again because the, the kick

40:42

is this weird blobby, pillowy.

40:46

Indistinct thunk. Yeah.

40:49

That was really hard

40:49

to, to get to work.

40:51

Um, so, yeah.

40:54

Um, as far as the, the

40:54

songwriting, like, well,

40:58

okay, so I was a pretty,

40:58

and I still am pretty

41:01

insecure about the vocals. Like that's the lowest I've sung

41:02

on a track, and I feel like.

41:08

I don't know. I've tempted to resing

41:09

it for the album. We'll, we'll see if I do that.

41:12

Um, and it's, it's kind of.

41:16

Love song about unrequited

41:16

love, but I would compare

41:19

it to the, uh, the polices.

41:21

Every breath you take where

41:21

you, you know, you hear

41:24

it and you're like, oh, that's a beautiful song. And then it's like, oh, can't

41:25

you see you belong to me?

41:28

I'm like, oh, like it's,

41:28

yeah, I'll be watching you.

41:33

You're like, wait, maybe

41:33

there's more to this.

41:35

Than I that I realized. Yeah, it's the same,

41:36

same kind of thing.

41:39

So the narrator is an

41:39

unreliable narrator,

41:42

which is always tricky. You're right, you're

41:43

writing words that you expect the audience to know

41:44

that what the person is

41:47

saying isn't actually true.

41:51

Um, so it's a, it's

41:51

about unrequited love.

41:55

It's a little bit stalkerish. Or maybe, I think it could be

41:56

potentially interpreted as the,

42:01

the protagonist is maybe on

42:01

the spectrum or you know, just.

42:05

Kind of not understanding

42:05

the situation socially in

42:08

the way that we would hope

42:08

it would be, um, taken.

42:12

So it's, it's kind of a tricky,

42:12

tricky song, but if you just

42:14

want to take it as a, as a

42:14

very pleasant love song, it

42:17

certainly works that way too.

42:19

Yeah. I love what you mentioned

42:20

there about, uh, the police and every breath you take.

42:22

Cause it is one of those ones where actually if you think, if you listen and sort

42:24

of digest the lyrics a bit

42:27

more, it it has, there are

42:27

slightly sinister connotations,

42:31

uh, surrounding that song. So it is, yeah.

42:34

It's, it's. Interesting that, um, but

42:35

brilliant, no audience do go check out the

42:37

serious one as well. Um, it's a fantastic

42:38

song as, as they all are.

42:41

And obviously I'll put links to,

42:41

um, your bank camp and whatnot

42:44

so the audience can go away and,

42:44

and listen to those as well.

42:47

Uh, Brian, we've got one

42:47

question here, um, which is

42:49

from our Facebook community. Now this is from, um, a

42:51

member called Tim Woodruff.

42:54

Oh, and I think you. Possibly answered this earlier.

42:58

Um, but his question is, what

42:58

is the biggest mastering mistake

43:00

that you see people making and

43:00

what would you do to fix it?

43:04

Yeah, I

43:04

guess it's, that's, I

43:07

would go with, uh, well,

43:07

I said two already, right?

43:11

Um, mixing through

43:11

compression and limiting

43:14

and feeling like you need to

43:14

use every module in ozone.

43:20

Yeah. Um, yeah, just if,

43:20

if you are not.

43:23

Look, look, my first five

43:23

years as a mastering engineer,

43:26

like, I mean, I'd like to

43:26

think I was good because I

43:31

probably did at the time, but

43:31

it's not, it wasn't that good.

43:33

It really takes a long

43:33

time to be able to dial

43:37

in the compression on an

43:37

entire mix, and I kid you

43:40

not like I, I am adjusting.

43:46

Thousandth on the threshold

43:46

like the Rio because it'll

43:50

usually be, uh, three digits

43:50

after the decimal point.

43:54

Mm-hmm. And that last digit, you

43:54

wouldn't think it would matter.

43:57

You'd think it's trivial. And I thought I was fooling

43:59

myself for a long time, but, uh,

44:03

it really makes a difference. Like there's just a sweet

44:05

spot and it is so small.

44:10

Um, and like I said, I

44:10

thought I was fooling myself.

44:12

There was a, um, Client, um,

44:12

Craig Space March in Australia.

44:17

I don't know if you've ever heard of him, but he has, he has great stuff.

44:20

He used to work for Universal. He may still do that, and

44:22

he had the ears to really

44:26

detect it, so I would adjust

44:26

things by that thousandth.

44:29

And he would reliably

44:29

say, Nope, nope.

44:32

That was, you know, um, so

44:32

it was because seriously, I

44:36

thought, okay, you know, cuz

44:36

you've had that right, where

44:38

you're, you're mixing and

44:38

you realize later that the

44:41

EQ isn't bypass, but you Yes.

44:43

Yeah. Yes. Yeah.

44:45

We will be in there. Yeah. So anyway, yeah.

44:47

The, the, so my point is that,

44:47

uh, it is a very delicate

44:52

process if you're not confident

44:52

in what you're doing, and

44:54

if you haven't, Mastering

44:54

for a long time, you're

44:58

probably not doing your best. At least try to minimize

44:59

the potential damage.

45:03

Don't compress more than,

45:03

you know, one to two DB tops.

45:07

Mm-hmm. Any problem you hear, if

45:07

it can be fixed in the mix, fix it in the mix.

45:11

Um, I would say don't master

45:11

louder than negative nine Ls.

45:19

Mm-hmm. Uh, The th that can be a

45:19

really good test, actually.

45:23

If, if I have a mix that I

45:23

pull in and I, I master it

45:29

at a volume that sounds about

45:29

right, and then I pull it, and

45:32

then I look and it's like, wow. It's like negative seven loves

45:33

that probably means that there's

45:37

work to be done in the mix. Like things aren't

45:39

balanced, right? If you've got a good mix,

45:40

the exception, I would say

45:43

is a sustained like re space,

45:43

something like that, that.

45:47

Soak up a lot of energy. Mm-hmm. Um, but for most mixes, if,

45:49

if you can't get it sounding

45:53

good at negative nine loves,

45:53

then you've got you, you

45:55

know, go back into the mix. And for me, I've, that means,

45:57

you know, bringing down

46:02

the kick, bringing down the

46:02

base, I always want more,

46:04

but I gotta bring it down. Um, because that's, that's

46:06

where a lot of that energy gets.

46:09

Mm-hmm. Excellent advice.

46:12

Yeah. Brilliant. And it's great that you

46:12

mentioned that about uh, the

46:15

negative nine lefts as well. Um, cuz that is, Uh, there's

46:16

so much information online

46:19

with regards to streaming

46:19

platforms and mm-hmm.

46:22

And, and advice in sort of

46:22

air quotes regarding what

46:26

levels should be and whatnot. So it's great to hear that

46:27

you, you as a mastering

46:30

engineer, you're, you're doing that, you're doing the mastering process and then

46:32

looking at the level, um,

46:36

there's sort of after as well. I've got one quick question

46:37

with regards to this.

46:40

So now you mentioned

46:40

there you sort of, after

46:42

the five years, you sort

46:42

of progress and whatnot.

46:46

Do you, uh, it's, it's a weird

46:46

question, but do you hear

46:49

like music differently when

46:49

you're in mastering mode?

46:52

If someone sends you a

46:52

song, do you, it's, it's

46:55

a weird question, but do

46:55

you hear it differently?

46:57

No, absolutely. Yeah. To, to analyzing a mix?

47:00

Yeah.

47:00

I, I definitely

47:00

do because what, what

47:02

happens quite often is I will

47:02

master a record and then the

47:08

artist will say, All right. So which is your favorite

47:10

song or what, or do you

47:13

have, you know, can you put

47:13

it in a sequence for me?

47:15

Mm-hmm. And you'd be surprised at

47:16

how many artists ask me

47:18

to sequence their albums. Um, but my first, you know,

47:20

it takes me, takes me aback

47:24

because I just have not

47:24

listened that way at all.

47:27

And if you ask me what the best

47:27

song is, it's gonna be the.

47:30

With the best mix right at that.

47:32

Yeah, yeah. At that stage. So yeah, I listen very, very

47:34

differently and I rarely

47:39

comment on the music itself.

47:42

Um, you know, when I'm,

47:42

when I'm mastering stuff,

47:45

I just don't, yeah. It almost doesn't

47:47

even occur to me. So it, yeah, it's

47:50

very different. Interesting.

47:52

Yeah, it's uh, it

47:52

echoes a conversation.

47:54

Once again, I say this a lot cause I've had so many conversations, uh, but yeah.

47:58

Um, exactly that. And then how music is

47:59

heard differently by mastering engineers.

48:02

This has been brilliant. I know we've, um, we've gone

48:03

off on a tangent as I regularly

48:05

do on these episodes cuz I,

48:05

uh, uh, I guess we'll say

48:09

something and then immediately

48:09

I'll make a note and think,

48:11

oh, I wanna ask this question. I end up going down a

48:12

rabbit hole and then totally

48:14

disregarding all the notes I've

48:14

made prior to the interview.

48:17

But no. Fantastic information

48:18

and our audience is gonna

48:21

get loads out of this. Um, this is great and it's

48:22

gonna feed in nicely to like

48:25

the mix engineer mastering

48:25

mini series that I'm sort of.

48:28

Um, collating and

48:28

putting together.

48:30

So this is fantastic. Um, Brian, uh, where can our

48:31

audience find you online?

48:36

Where's the best place to go?

48:37

Well, uh,

48:37

color theory.com would be

48:41

probably the best entrance. So a lot of, like, I'm

48:42

not very up on social

48:45

media, like I'm not. Doing videos.

48:48

I mean, this is, this isn't great. I mean, I realize I, I should

48:49

probably do better, but I,

48:53

I've, I'm not on, I, I have my

48:53

account on TikTok, but I'm not

48:57

posting anything on TikTok. I don't do reels.

49:00

The, the way to really keep up

49:00

with me and get to know me would

49:03

be to go to color theory.com. I've got a mailing list

49:06

subscription there.

49:08

I send you five of my

49:08

best songs for free.

49:11

And, um, that's the way I.

49:15

People is, is through email. Um, of course the next level

49:17

then is becoming a patron,

49:20

and that starts at $3. And you, as we discuss, get

49:22

a new track every month.

49:26

And many of those go on

49:26

to be released at some

49:29

point, but uh, some don't.

49:31

And, uh, you have input

49:31

into kind of the process

49:36

and what ends up getting

49:36

released and picking artwork

49:39

and fun stuff like that. So it's a good.

49:42

Fantastic. That Pat idea is,

49:43

uh, is brilliant.

49:45

I love that idea that you're

49:45

sending music out and then I

49:48

suppose your audience, then

49:48

they feel connected and part of

49:51

the process cuz they're having

49:51

an input, which is, which is

49:55

fantastic. Yeah, it's great. It's great for me.

49:57

Like, uh, cover

49:57

art specifically.

49:59

Like, okay, pick a pick and

49:59

design and, and that gets a

50:03

lot of people really involved

50:03

and I dunno if you saw

50:06

this, um, Spotify, I don't,

50:06

I hope it comes soon, but

50:10

announce something about,

50:10

Uh, connecting with Patreon

50:13

so that we can have patron

50:13

exclusive material on Spotify,

50:18

so that would be amazing. Imagine, you know, I've got a

50:20

patron only album that Yeah,

50:24

because right, they're listening

50:24

on Spotify too, and they've got

50:26

a, you know, they can listen

50:26

to my music through a podcast

50:29

link, which is still cool. Mm-hmm. They can listen on their phone,

50:31

but to listen on Spotify and

50:35

better yet to have people

50:35

who aren't patrons see that

50:38

they can unlock this album. By becoming a patron.

50:42

It's, uh, yeah, it's

50:42

really exciting.

50:44

I, I'm, I hope it

50:44

actually happens.

50:47

Yeah, definitely. It, it, it sort of sparks

50:48

the creative fire in me

50:51

really thinking about it. And I wonder if they'll

50:52

do the same for podcasts. That's something

50:54

I have to look at. Ooh. Look into. Yeah, I'm thinking exclusive.

50:58

It's probably something I should discuss on air, but it's exclusive podcast,

51:00

uh, episodes and whatnot.

51:04

Uh, but yeah, that's, that's

51:04

further down the line.

51:06

That's for another day. Um, have you got any key dates

51:07

or any, anything like that you'd

51:11

like to share with the audience? Uh, this episode will go live,

51:12

I believe memory serves sort

51:15

of around the beginning of

51:16

April. Okay. Well, April will be the first

51:17

month I take off from releasing

51:22

a track in a long time. And that's because I mentioned

51:24

the ghost again, thing that was

51:27

the fifth release in five weeks.

51:29

It was insane. And I need a break.

51:32

And you need a break. And, uh, so, but what I'm

51:33

gonna try to do, and this is

51:36

the first time I'm saying it

51:36

out loud, so now it may have

51:39

to happen, is I want to do. Um, free plus shipping

51:41

and hamming offer.

51:44

So I've got, I was thinking

51:44

of giving away CD copies of

51:49

the majesty of our broken

51:49

past, which is kind of my.

51:53

Big synth wave album. Mm-hmm. Um, from 2018 and um,

51:55

so hopefully people can

51:59

keep an eye out for that. It'll be on color theory.com.

52:02

So the idea is the CD's

52:02

free, you just gotta cover

52:05

shipping, which isn't too

52:05

bad in the us, but if you're

52:08

not in the US it is bad and

52:08

it's not my fault, but yeah.

52:13

Um, and then the next actual

52:13

release will be she's made

52:16

of wires in the beginning of

52:16

May, of course on band Camp.

52:21

Ah, brilliant. Excellent stuff. Um, Brian, thank you so much for

52:23

spending the time with me today.

52:26

It's been great. I appreciate, um, you've had to,

52:26

you get up earlier whatnot, and,

52:30

um, squeeze this into your day. Um, yeah, it's, it's, it's

52:31

one of those ones where

52:34

the, the podcast is around

52:34

the world, but, um, the,

52:37

the times suit me and not

52:37

necessarily the people I'm

52:40

talking to a lot of the time. Fair

52:42

enough. No, I really enjoyed it. No, thank you for having me.

52:45

Yeah,

52:45

no, no, it's been brilliant. It's been great to put your

52:46

brains and sort of hear more. Your, your story at the

52:49

beginning and also your

52:51

advice with regards to music

52:51

production, mixing and, and

52:54

specifically mastering as well. Cause I think this year

52:55

on the podcast, um, the

52:59

previous sort of 60 episodes,

52:59

how haven't really touched

53:02

on mastering at all. Hmm. And um, it's been great

53:04

that in 2023 there's been

53:06

a, this episode there's a

53:06

previous one, uh, earlier

53:10

in March I think it was. So it's great to now have some

53:11

mastering insight as well.

53:14

Cause I know there are a lot

53:14

of producers out there analysis

53:16

who are doing it themselves and. Not necessarily know

53:18

where to begin or, or

53:20

have been misinformed. So it's, it's fantastic to have

53:21

you on chat about that as well.

53:24

Um, so I know they're gonna get a lot of it. So. Brilliant.

53:26

Once again, Ryan, big thank

53:26

you for joining me today.

53:29

Thank you very much. You bet. Thank you. Thank you.

53:31

I'll, uh, speak to you soon.