0:02

You're listening to Math and Magic, a production

0:04

I heart Radio. You

0:09

actually were the guy who inspired

0:12

us to do animated logos. Do

0:14

you remember this? I said, well, what are we going

0:16

to do in between the videos and the VJs

0:19

that are we gonna do jingles? And he went, oh, no, we can't

0:21

do jingles? And I said, what do

0:23

we do? He said, how about this? Imagine

0:26

it's a picture of a cow. I said,

0:28

yeah, he said, and all of a

0:30

sudden, an X comes down and cuts

0:33

the cow's head off and it falls to the

0:35

ground and you see the veins coming out and the blood

0:37

spurting out, and the cow vomits,

0:39

and in the vomit is the logo. I

0:42

went, Oh, my god, I can do anything

0:44

I want. Hi,

0:47

I'm Bob Titman, and welcome to Math and Magic.

0:49

Stories from the Frontiers and Marketing and

0:51

we're doing something special on today's episode.

0:54

One of the pivotal moments of my life was leading

0:57

the team that created MTV. I've

0:59

had the good fortin of having all the co founders

1:01

of MTV on this podcast with

1:03

me and in each of the interviews, whether

1:06

it was chatting with Judie Grath and Fred Cyber,

1:08

John Sykes or Yarramon and of course Tom

1:10

Freston. We've always spent a little time

1:13

talking about MTV, So what

1:15

we wanted to do for you today was

1:17

pulled together those stories for the

1:19

first time ever. Tell the story at the beginning

1:21

of MTV through the eyes of people who

1:23

were actually in the room when it happened, because

1:26

all of us who are really in the room often

1:28

laugh about how far off other people's accounts

1:30

can be. So let me set the stage. It's

1:38

the beginning of the eighties. Cable TV

1:41

was still a crazy idea. Most

1:43

business executives and most of America didn't

1:45

understand it or believe in how TV

1:47

was about to change. And here comes

1:50

this pack of twenty year old with an attitude.

1:53

None of us had ever done the jobs before.

1:55

All we knew is we've grown up with rock and

1:58

roll and we've grown up with TV, and

2:00

the two had never successfully come together.

2:02

We thought it had always failed because TV

2:05

people always wanted to try and make music at

2:07

the TV form a story. We

2:09

intended to make TV at the music

2:12

form mood and emotion. MTV

2:15

was going to be about attitude and something

2:17

people wanted to join. We

2:19

were on a mission. So when I hearts

2:22

owned John Sykes at the time,

2:24

a twenty four year old record executive at CBS

2:26

Records in Chicago heard what we were up

2:28

to. Well, he wanted in, so

2:32

let's talk about MTV. It's the

2:35

word gets out that we're working on this do music

2:38

channel. How do you hear about it? What

2:40

does it mean to you? And how on earth did

2:43

you really get connected to us to get on

2:45

that original team. I grew up with

2:47

three things in my life. Radio,

2:49

television, music. That's all I cared about.

2:52

When I wasn't listen to the radio station, I

2:54

was watching TV or listening to music. Those

2:56

things, to me shaped our culture. So I'm

2:58

at school, ab TV is just starting

3:01

up, and I saw the cable

3:03

channels were empty, the music was all over the radio. Was

3:05

it on television? So we used to go and

3:07

shoot the concerts and sarcus and

3:09

we'd pay them and send him to new channels,

3:12

and we played the concerts and people

3:14

like, oh my god, I can see the band. And

3:16

all I wanted to do at that point was put

3:18

music on television. When I graduated, I went

3:21

to CBS that let's put music on

3:23

let's run concerts. These three martini

3:25

lunch guys in New York looked at me, and I was crazy.

3:27

I got a job in the record business promoting radio stations.

3:30

I wanted to run the radio station. I didn't

3:32

want to promote them on the rail, but that's the job

3:34

I had. So then I heard from

3:36

my friend's deep Casey was at w LS in Chicago

3:39

that his great friend Bob Pittman was

3:41

in New York and he was going to start

3:43

a video channel, and I lost

3:46

my mind. It still gives me goose

3:48

bumps. I was like, this is what I was made

3:51

to do. This is what I wanted to do. To

3:53

me, it was like music along on television.

3:55

So I started calling you, and

3:57

I called you, and I called you and I called you. And thanks

3:59

to your assistant and Plunkett, who I was

4:01

annoying so much, she said, all right, Bob,

4:04

you please talk to this guy. And

4:06

uh we met that day with a borrowed

4:08

support jacket. Because I don't know

4:10

it, but you and I connected that moment because we had

4:12

the same vision. Music and television

4:15

were the two biggest forces in pop culture

4:17

and they were about to be united. You

4:19

look back on any successful product and

4:22

it seems easy. You were there

4:24

when we didn't even have approval from the board to

4:27

do it. We just had some money to develop it.

4:29

So give us a little color for people

4:31

who think things are easy and they always go exactly

4:34

the way you plan. What that early development was

4:36

like. It is funny and people like go, oh my god,

4:39

you're in the team that started MTV. That must have been a

4:41

magical and great ago. I don't know. I

4:44

was working too hard. We were so in the trenches

4:46

all the time. It only looks glamorous that

4:48

day looking back, but when you're in it, it's

4:51

a slugfest. There was this idea, but

4:53

to make it happen, we had no money

4:55

and we all quit jobs. You were at NBC, I was at

4:57

CBS. I was the promotion man of

5:00

the Year in Chicago, and I just said, I'm quitting. People

5:02

like us, we weren't going to fail.

5:05

I never thought we were going to fail. I got

5:07

scared when you'd come in and say, you know, they're

5:09

gonna cut the budgets. We've got a few more months. We've

5:11

got to make our numbers. That just made me say,

5:13

well, we're gonna have to work hard to make our numbers. I do still

5:15

remember one conversation we have where

5:18

I said, Okay, we're going to the board and we're gonna

5:21

pitch this for approval, and you go, what, we

5:23

don't have approval. I quit my job. We don't have

5:25

approval. No, no, John, this was development.

5:28

All the blood ran out of your face at that moment.

5:30

I do remember I had to look up because

5:33

there was no Internet. I had to go into Dictionary look up

5:35

the real definition of development. I thought, we're

5:37

developing something. You development means

5:39

it's not gonna happen yet, but you know something.

5:42

I was like, who cares if it doesn't

5:44

work, I'll go sleep on my sister's couching another

5:46

job. We were young. John

5:49

Sykes was so hungry he pounded on

5:51

our door to let him in. He believed in music

5:53

television from the start. But my good

5:55

pal Fred Cyberg, the one who came out

5:57

of radio and helped create the graphic of

6:00

MTV, his reason for getting into TV

6:02

was very different. One

6:05

of your great supporters, who I had worked with and who

6:07

I loved dearly, Dale Pond, recommended you to

6:09

me pre MTV. It was in

6:11

the early days to pay TV. You came

6:13

over to join us in the cable revolution. Why

6:16

did you make that jump? Well, you know this

6:19

is gonna sound flattering. I

6:21

did it completely because of you. Dale

6:23

had left the country music radio station and left

6:25

me alone, and the guy I was working

6:27

for at that time in radio I had no respect

6:30

for whatsoever. So you called

6:32

me one day, you said you want to be in television, and oh, you

6:34

said, okay, come have coffee with me. I went

6:36

to Dale's files and he had files on everyone

6:39

in the business, and there was one article about

6:41

you, and I thought to myself, you know, this

6:44

guy is younger than me and I've heard

6:46

of him, so that's, you

6:48

know, one check. So we go, we

6:50

have the coffee and I walk out and

6:53

I called my best friend and I said,

6:55

this guy that I just talked to is so much

6:58

smarter than my Boston radio He

7:00

goes, what do you think about that? I said, Well, here's

7:02

what Dale taught me. It doesn't matter what

7:04

the job is, work for the smartest person you

7:06

can find. And at the time, you were the smartest

7:08

person I could find. That's what that means, to truth

7:12

be told. When you first told me about

7:14

it, I thought it was the dumbest idea in the world,

7:16

because I was a music guy and

7:20

I had seen, you know, a few crummy music videos.

7:22

I hadn't really thought about it too much, and then luckily

7:24

somebody played me a music video that made,

7:27

you know, the little light go off. I

7:30

don't know whether it was blind faith or

7:33

I was too naive to know that you had to

7:35

have faith, Like you told me it was gonna happen, so

7:37

I believed you totally.

7:40

I was just talking with Alan Goodman, my soon

7:42

to be partner at that point, and he said,

7:45

you know, we didn't really know what was going to happen,

7:48

but you looked at all the other people that were around you,

7:50

and it just had to happen. I think

7:52

that's really true. I don't know if you remember, but

7:54

we went to the head of Warner Communications

7:57

in American Express, and we got a meeting

7:59

with Steve Ross, who is the CEO of Warner

8:01

along with his deputies David Horowitz,

8:03

et cetera. And we got Jim Robinson

8:06

and his deputy Luke Gershner from

8:08

American Express. We were worried

8:10

that when we showed these videos too from Americans Press,

8:12

call what So he said, let's

8:14

find the tamest one of my mind. I think we

8:16

found Olivia Newton John if

8:18

you remember. But in the meeting they said you have

8:20

to play that kind of stuff, implying

8:23

Olivia Newton John was too. But

8:25

to their credit, Jim Robinson's the first one to say, Okay,

8:28

I'm in from my half. How about you? Steve so awesome

8:30

we locked out. The

8:32

MTV crew we assembled was a bunch of

8:34

lovable misfits and future Viacom

8:36

MTV CEO Tom Preston was no different.

8:39

It spent several years living in Afghanistan,

8:41

reporting clothes and having adventures across

8:43

Asia, but when things got two political

8:46

overseas, he made his way back

8:49

and so so you don't think Tom went saft sitting

8:51

to top Viacom. After he left

8:53

the company, He returned Afghanistan and

8:56

even has a wonderful story about lying

8:58

on the floor and a bar and football with

9:00

a firefight going on all around,

9:02

the bullets whizzing overhead. I

9:05

was always trying to figure out where would I fit in in the

9:08

business world. There wasn't an artist per se. I wasn't

9:10

a writer or a musician, but

9:12

I wanted to always be around creative

9:15

people. My first grown up jobs. Essentially,

9:17

we're working in an ad agency. My

9:19

first account there I worked on was g I

9:21

Joe Now Money. This was sort of at the height of the Vietnam

9:24

War and I was in an alienated state

9:26

to begin with. When they were gonna assign me to

9:29

charm and toilet paper, that was sort of

9:31

my last straw. Called an ex girlfriend

9:33

who lived in Paris. I said, they want me to work on a toilet

9:36

paper account where they had segmented

9:38

the population two rollers, folders and crumplers.

9:42

And she says, well, you can't do that. You should quit

9:44

that job. Don't be a moron. Come

9:47

with me. I'm gonna go across the Sahara Desert up

9:49

in Paris. So I was on a plane like ten days

9:51

later. That was it for me. So

9:53

Tom set up his clothing company Hidnt Do Kush

9:56

and ran that successfully for a long while.

9:59

When I was riven out of Asia, I thought, whatever

10:01

I do next, I wanted to be something that I also

10:03

loved deeply, and that was music. So I'm methodically

10:06

looked around getting a job in the music business.

10:08

Through connections. I ended up in John Lack's

10:11

office and I told him I thought, this is a fantastic

10:13

idea. He says, we're looking for people who have no experience

10:15

in television. I said, I'm your man. They

10:18

didn't even have television where I've been living in the last

10:20

eight years. We were both originally brought

10:22

to the company for other jobs, by the way, before

10:24

the MTV development even began, by the incredibly

10:27

charismatic John Lack, who had

10:29

this wonderful affliction. He liked

10:31

to hire people for roles they had never had before.

10:34

And you and I benefited from that. But you

10:37

got in here the cable revolution wasn't

10:39

even recognized as being a revolution. Yet,

10:41

what did you think you were getting into? I mean, this was still

10:43

sort of Mickey Mouse compared to the TV business.

10:45

I thought I was getting into one of the greatest ideas

10:47

that had ever come around. I had spent

10:50

parts of the summers in Europe, and I was familiar

10:52

with the music video which were largely unknown to

10:54

American audiences, and they were infectious,

10:57

and I thought MTV, like

11:00

all of us on the team, was really

11:02

one of the great ideas. And all of us were essentially

11:05

on a crusade. We got paid nothing. It

11:07

was the early eighties version of a startup, very

11:10

much so. And if you looked at the media environment

11:13

then nothing had really changed in years. The only

11:15

thing that had come around knew had been FM

11:17

radio. There was still three TV networks.

11:20

Pong was only a few years old. Remember

11:22

we used to say we're going to do to FM

11:24

what FM did too a M that was our

11:27

big plane channels in the home. Can

11:29

you imagine. Judy

11:32

McGrath was another key employee in the early

11:34

days. She eventually rose to be CEO

11:36

of MTV Networks. Here she

11:39

has reminiscing about what it meant to make

11:41

the rules up as we went along. The

11:44

beauty and the wonder of MTV was

11:47

that it was really filled with people that I thought

11:50

could not find gainful employment anywhere

11:52

else. It

11:54

would be somebody who had never really

11:58

shot anything and just wanted to get their hands

12:00

on a camera and try it. And we were

12:02

willing to do that, so I would say absolutely,

12:04

But remember, don't fall in love with your

12:07

own idea. This is about someone

12:10

else, not you. This is about the person

12:12

on the other side. They're like you, but you

12:14

can't make this just for you. And there

12:16

are really no other rules aside from

12:19

you know, no full frontal nudity. Go out

12:21

there and do it, and it was so

12:23

much fun to have the

12:26

freedom to meet people

12:28

who were far more creative than I was. I

12:30

mean, when I joined, I didn't know anything about

12:32

television. I didn't even like it. My

12:35

interview was with Fred, who

12:37

said, so, what kind of

12:39

music do you like? And I think I said

12:41

Bruce Springsteen, I'm not sure. He said,

12:43

well, you're wrong, and I'll tell you why. And

12:45

then about forty five minutes later, I left,

12:48

not having said anything else. And

12:50

the next thing I know, they were like, well,

12:53

you know, look, this is just a few of us were trying to

12:55

get this thing going if you'd like to join, And

12:58

it was kind of like how fast can I it out

13:00

the door of Conde nas and jump on this thing

13:02

whatever it is? These people are crazy.

13:06

What's funny is that when I asked Fred about

13:08

it, he remembered the story exactly

13:10

the same way. She said Bruce Springsteen. I

13:12

said wrong, because I don't

13:14

have a good thing about Bruce. The

13:17

fact that she cared, you know, the Bruce haters

13:19

are coming after you right now. Believe me,

13:21

They've been coming after me my whole life. The

13:23

fact that she cared meant

13:26

all the difference to me in the world. Not that I agreed.

13:28

You know, I've just found the camaraderie

13:32

and the purpose in

13:34

the sheer invention of something

13:36

that didn't exist, so irresistible.

13:40

And again on the math side of it, I was

13:42

saying, I mean this with all sincerity. You

13:45

had a map in the creative

13:47

group, you had a plan, and the plan were

13:49

promises, and I loved that.

13:51

I am making a promise to you. You

13:54

sit here, I'm going to deliver something

13:56

that you've been waiting for. It

13:59

is the first music television

14:02

network. It is exactly for you.

14:04

And I thought, wow, I want my MTV

14:07

and I have no idea what it is, but those

14:11

are powerful words my in

14:13

an era before social media

14:16

and social engagement. Something for

14:18

me that felt like mine and want

14:20

What a powerful word, right, I

14:23

want my MTV. I

14:26

took that very seriously. I took those promises

14:29

to heart. Twenty four hours a day terrific

14:32

in stereo, not really, but you know,

14:34

hey, it's mart that sounded

14:37

good. People who did have stereo.

14:40

I remember you saying to me, we want people to

14:42

think it sounds better than regular television,

14:44

and they did. It just felt to me

14:46

like if I could marry all the things I'm

14:49

interested in, with these set of

14:51

principles and join this

14:53

crazy band of people who have no right

14:56

and a lot of audacity and a firm

14:59

belief that this can work. What a

15:01

gift. I never looked back,

15:04

not one second. Let's

15:07

go back to Fred and chat about that iconic

15:09

MTV logo. Talk

15:13

about the logo you set out, You've got

15:15

the mission. You and I had these discussions. I've

15:17

naively said, we'll do our own Star Wars

15:19

logo because everybody has a Star Wars log and you go to bob Ours

15:22

will look cheap. You said, Look, if

15:24

we do something no one's ever seen before, they won't

15:26

know it's cheap. So tell me about

15:29

the logo. Well, the logo itself actually

15:31

came about because I was

15:34

too scared to go to someone famous. I

15:36

wanted to go to Milton Glazer, who's one of the most famous

15:38

graphic designers of the last fifty years.

15:41

And I was like, oh, well, he's gonna be really expensive

15:45

and we'll get all the credit. And I wanted

15:47

a little credit, you know, at least. So

15:50

my childhood friend, who I've known since

15:52

I'm four years old, a guy named Frank Olinsky,

15:54

had just started a little design firm behind

15:57

a tai Chief studio above Bigelow

15:59

Chemists on Sixth Avenue. And

16:01

Frank had been the guy because he's a year older than

16:04

me, who would always introduced me to every

16:06

new rock band. He introduced me to the Monkeys,

16:08

he introduced me to the Mothers of Invention, to the

16:10

Who, to Jeff Beck. So I go down

16:12

to his little Taichi studio place and I go,

16:14

will you guys design a logo for this rock

16:17

channel we're starting? And they're like

16:19

yes, And they didn't ask me anything. They didn't

16:21

ask me how much they were going to get paid or anything

16:23

like that. And this was right

16:25

after you sent out the first memo in

16:28

June, and

16:30

boy do I wish I had that memo. So for

16:32

a year they designed logos and

16:35

I just rejected everything, probably

16:39

five hundred designs. Finally

16:42

they come in the office one day. We're actually

16:44

going to go on the air soon, right, and we still don't

16:46

have anything, and they bring a pile

16:49

and I'm like, no, no, I'm going through the

16:51

whole pile. And at the bottom of the

16:53

pile is a piece of tracing

16:55

paper. Remember that, you know the paper you could see

16:57

through and it was all wrinkled and

17:00

they had flattened it out. It was just like a

17:02

sketched TV and went, Okay,

17:05

that's the one I can see. Frank like

17:07

rowling. He and I now disagree.

17:10

But what I had heard is that there's

17:12

three partners and one of them wasn't really a designer.

17:15

She was a production manager and

17:17

she had done it, and Frank

17:19

saw it and hated him, threw it in the garbage.

17:22

She fished it out and put it at the bottom of

17:24

the pile. He says, that's not true, but you

17:26

know, maybe a

17:29

good story. The only reason I said yes is

17:31

that Dale had taught me one lesson

17:34

about design. You need to dominate

17:36

the space, and that big

17:38

block e M was the only thing they

17:40

showed that when you put it on a TV screen,

17:43

filled the whole screen. Okay, we dominate the space,

17:45

and in a world of thirty channels in

17:47

a day, when the screen was square exactly

17:50

right. So then

17:52

I go, oh, you know, we need official

17:54

colors. So they come

17:57

to my office with about ten different

17:59

boards and then a little board where Frank

18:01

had illustrated ten or twelve of them

18:04

on acrylic overlays and said

18:06

this one will be for the heavy metal show, and

18:08

this one will be for the new

18:11

Wave show. And I'm like, Frank, We're not gonna have shows,

18:13

you know. I put it aside. So I put all of

18:15

the boards up on my pegboard and

18:18

couldn't decide, and this one

18:20

on literally for like weeks and weeks

18:23

and weeks. And then I start looking at his

18:25

little acrylic thing with all the illustration, and

18:28

I said, why don't we just use them all at

18:30

once all the time? Or television

18:33

we move, shouldn't the logo move?

18:35

And to be honest with you, that was my first

18:38

real revelation that I was in television,

18:42

that we had come up with an idea that

18:44

only worked in television. You actually

18:47

were the guy who inspired

18:49

us to do animated logos. I said,

18:52

well, what are we going to do in between the videos and

18:54

the VJs that are We're gonna do jingles?

18:56

And went, oh, no, we can't do jingles. And I

18:58

said, what do we do? He said,

19:00

how about this? Imagine it's

19:03

like a picture of a cow. I said, yeah,

19:06

he said, and all of a sudden, an X

19:08

comes down and cuts the cow's head off and

19:10

it falls to the ground and you see the veins

19:12

coming out and the blood spurting out, and

19:15

the cow vomits, and in the vomit

19:17

is the logo. I went, oh

19:19

my god, I can do anything I want. This

19:22

is the most exciting moment of

19:25

my life. And we started hiring animators

19:27

to do all that stuff. The other thing you did

19:29

when you did those promos, you laid

19:31

the music bed down first and cut

19:34

the music. People forget this, They don't

19:36

realize that was an innovation. So I got

19:38

that all from Dale. And when we started

19:40

making our first radio spots, we would film

19:42

country music stars and then

19:45

he said, we'll go to the audio studio and cut

19:47

the audio track. And

19:49

I went, well, the video guy

19:52

tells me, no, you have to first do the

19:54

picture. And then he goes, Fred, we

19:57

own the audio studio. It's free.

20:00

If you get it right in the audio studio,

20:03

then the three an hour video

20:05

studio will go much faster. By the time

20:07

we got to MTV, I realized

20:10

that he was absolutely right. Now fast forward twenty

20:12

years. I go to MTV one day and

20:14

I go, who's the promo department? Now on the one

20:17

you're the one, Well, what

20:19

are you talking about? And they said, they make

20:21

us do the audio. First we're filmed.

20:24

People like why so twenty

20:26

years later they were still doing it. But

20:29

boy, what it did is it brought rhythm.

20:33

So we had a logo and we were a band

20:35

of believers. But part of getting MTV

20:37

to stick was proving the channel's worth

20:39

to the record companies. Artists loved

20:41

the idea of being on TV, but the labels

20:44

needed to be convinced. At the time, David

20:46

said music should be heard and not seen.

20:49

We needed a case study, a story

20:51

to prove we sold records.

20:54

I talked to John Sykes about it. We

20:57

launch MTV, we get it underway. We're

21:00

trying to get some evidence that it's working

21:02

because the record companies are hemorrhaging

21:05

money those years. They were thinking about cutting

21:08

videos out of their budget, which of course we've been

21:10

disaster for. So we said we gotta get some evidence ahead

21:12

of the budget cycle. And you and Tom

21:14

Freston go on the road to Tulsa,

21:17

Oklahoma. Just

21:19

hold on a second, because we've got so much

21:21

more to talk about. We'll be back after a quick

21:24

break. Some

21:28

mean what happened in Tulsa. We believe

21:30

this was working, We felt it, but we

21:32

needed facts. We needed to convince a record

21:35

business. So I was like, we need a story,

21:37

Tom, John, go on their own, don't compact. You have a

21:39

story. And Tulsa didn't happen until

21:41

we went to Syracuse, Houston

21:43

and we went to the cable markets. So Tom

21:45

and I driving through Tulsa in

21:47

a rental car literally with a

21:50

map of record stores and going into

21:52

places. So you sold any please

21:54

records selling Duran Duran sold

21:57

in the Tulips to Nope,

22:00

Nope, So we kept driving driving. I

22:02

still remember it was a regord store in an old

22:05

house and tomize Trudgin

22:07

and we say solely this only

22:10

that's only Dan grand Ran. I

22:12

sold two boxes of Duran

22:14

Duran records last week. What is

22:17

you sold to back? You sold

22:19

fifty records records in a box. Can

22:22

we have your name and can we

22:24

use your phone? We called the box,

22:26

said Bob, Bob, we have a story. We have a story.

22:29

We have a record store that's selling music only

22:31

played on MTV. And he said, great,

22:33

get a name, get the information. We need

22:35

an article, and so we hang up the phone. I turned

22:37

to Tom, Tom, we get to go home. And

22:40

we took that and we wrote it as a case study

22:43

and we ran it in bill Board and the music

22:45

magazines to influence the record company

22:48

keep going. I have, of course you do. You have everything

22:51

we ever did at MTV. You are the pack

22:53

rat. I have that one sheet

22:55

MTV sales records, Joey

22:57

Smith, and boy that Joey Smith. Wherever you are tell

23:00

us Oklahoma, thank you. If

23:03

you're wondering why we picked those places,

23:05

Syracuse, Houston, Tulsa, it's

23:07

because those were the few markets

23:10

where we had enough cable density that we

23:12

could make a point. These cities

23:14

ended up being little laboratories where we

23:16

could peek in and take measurements and

23:18

show the world just how effective MTV

23:21

was gonna be. So it proved our worth

23:23

to the record companies. But you have to remember

23:26

we still had to convince cable operators to

23:28

carry m TV. They wanted to be

23:30

paid to carry our channel, and frankly,

23:33

we didn't have the money. So we had to

23:35

come up with a breakthrough idea and genius

23:37

campaign that could do all the heavy lifting.

23:40

Here, Tom Preston and Fred Seibert

23:42

telling that story, let's start the talk. When

23:46

we launched MTV. You were the head of

23:48

marketing the cable operator wouldn't

23:51

put MTV on. They wanted us to pay

23:53

them one we didn't have the money, and too that

23:55

was probably a slippery slope, and so

23:58

we decided we would use a whole

24:00

strategy to get distribution. I

24:02

want my MTV. Well, it was sort of a Hail Mary

24:04

passed because you know, we're about to go under. No

24:07

one in the organization knew we were about to go under,

24:10

So how are we going to get these cable

24:12

operators at us? When we knew in fact

24:15

that the people who actually had it in a few

24:17

towns where it existed, they loved it. They were fanatical

24:20

about it. So we actually had to go over their heads.

24:22

And the idea was that campaign

24:24

I Want My Mapo, which I remembered as a baby

24:26

boomer in the fifties. I'm obnoxious,

24:29

I want my MAPO, but I want my MTV. The

24:31

actual spot said, they grew up with

24:33

rock and roll, they grew up with television.

24:36

Now they want their MTV. George

24:39

Lois, who never saw

24:41

something that he couldn't copy, had

24:43

already copied a

24:46

famous TV commercial from the fifties

24:48

called I Want my Mapo for a really

24:51

horrendous tasting, and

24:56

he redid it with Mick Jagger

24:58

and David Bowie, and on the beginning

25:00

of the spot he had Pete Townsend doing

25:03

it America demand your

25:05

MTV and people go, I

25:07

want my MTV. I want my MTV. And then

25:09

Pete towns and again with a telephone going

25:12

toll your cable operator and

25:14

say I want my And

25:16

they showed us this spot. If we could

25:19

get major rock stars in a commercial

25:21

to kind of hold our logo, validate

25:23

and hold it and command people to call

25:26

their cable company and demand their MTV, make

25:28

it look cool, put some animation around

25:30

it, and then put it in these markets

25:32

at very high frequency. We go into a market

25:35

and would be like a Blockbuster movie was

25:37

opening. Most people in the market

25:39

had never heard of MTV. So we

25:42

went and we pitched it to you. I

25:44

think you saw the feeling of it right away.

25:46

Well, there's a lesson in this too that you've always done

25:49

very very well, which is harnessing

25:51

the power of partners and in

25:53

the case of I Want my MTV, music

25:55

stars who were willing to be in the commercial for

25:57

free to help us accomplish goals,

26:00

but you also have music companies and others. Dale

26:02

was this brilliant hybrid

26:06

of a strategist and a creative guy.

26:09

And as a strategist, what he understood

26:12

is that we had no money to spend on this

26:14

ad. I remember going into our boss's

26:16

office and saying, but HBO spending ten million

26:19

dollars a year in advertising, goes, you're lucky.

26:21

You have to somehow or other. The

26:23

people in the media business didn't actually believe

26:25

in advertising as the weirdest

26:28

thing. And so I went to

26:30

Dale. I said, look, we only have two million dollars, and

26:32

he did an incredible data

26:36

dump of where could

26:38

MTV be put on against

26:41

how much media cost in that particular

26:44

market, and he did three

26:46

or four or five cross tabs to

26:49

figure out the most likely places

26:51

that if we put on these spots that

26:55

we would get people calling and making

26:57

the cable operators insane. And god

27:00

knows, I think we made

27:02

customer representatives from all over

27:04

America crazy within four weeks.

27:07

Next thing, you know, every cable operator of

27:09

there were eleven of them in a market, which would not be

27:11

unusual time they'd all call up and surrender.

27:13

So we would move a market by market for a

27:16

couple of years across the country, going from like what

27:18

was seven million subscribers ended up being

27:20

eighty or ninety million. I had a guy stopped

27:22

me at a cable operator and said I hate you, and

27:24

I go, why why do you hate me? And

27:26

he goes because my phone rings

27:29

all day with those people saying I want mam

27:31

people. I can't get any work done. In

27:36

my chats with the co founders, there's a lot of

27:38

fondness for this deviant culture we had. MTV

27:41

was fine. It was definitely anti establishment.

27:44

And the truth is even the promotions dripped

27:46

with the brand sensibility. In some ways

27:49

they defined the brand sensibility. There's

27:51

some of the crazy stories too. It was fun

27:54

reminiscing with John Sykes about them. You

27:57

were the guy who did the promotions. You came

27:59

up with these ideas and fortunately,

28:01

unfortunately the one that also executed them.

28:04

You did to Paint the House Paint promotion with John

28:06

Mellencamp, you did the Last Weekend with Van Halen.

28:09

What formula were you using? Goes back

28:11

to that connected New York thing of being a dreamer,

28:14

because I was the kid. I

28:16

was the viewer who thought, oh my

28:18

god, if only I could dot dot dot.

28:21

So when you said we've

28:23

got to put together some promotions. We gotta go bigger

28:25

than life. We go, what are we gonna do? I just said

28:28

to myself, okay, what would

28:30

anybody give their eye teeth to do? What

28:32

would be the fantasy of all fantasies?

28:35

And I remember just John had done a song called pink

28:37

Houses. So let's give away a house

28:39

and you're gonna paint the mother pink. Tell us about

28:41

the first house you bought. When

28:44

you had to execute it, I means you got to go find a

28:46

house, got to go buy a house. You had to go actually

28:48

get a team to paint it pink. You gotta go fly people

28:51

in. So we went, and you had no money,

28:53

so we had to buy the chief house you

28:55

could find. So Bob goes, take a cashier's

28:57

check and just go buy a house. And I

29:00

okay. So I flew in Indiana

29:02

and John Mellencamp, who loved the idea,

29:04

sends his ex wife to meet me to

29:06

show me around it by some house. She's a realtor. So

29:09

we go and I go, okay, I got about two

29:11

hours before I get the flight back to New York. Show

29:13

me four houses. First house we

29:16

buy, the woman is there just cookies

29:18

for me. The kids are out front, they've cleaned it up. This

29:20

was a shock. I felt so bad for

29:22

her. She was a single mom. Look at this house,

29:24

and I said, we'll do It's a we can

29:27

paint this pink. So I wrote a check

29:29

thirty two dollars, bought the house. Her

29:31

jaw dropped. No realator, just handed

29:33

the check and got in the car, drove back. When

29:36

you open up Rolling Stone, three weeks later, MTV

29:39

buys house on toxic waste dump. So

29:43

so I call you go Bob. I had

29:45

no idea. John Mellencamp writes me letters I

29:47

have today. Dear John, I'm sure

29:50

you've read Rolling Stone by now, and

29:52

I'm sure you wouldn't want to give a house on a

29:54

toxic waste dump. And I'm going, oh

29:56

my god, we're stuck with a house. So I had

29:58

to fly back and get an other house. But

30:01

that's not the good double the budget, the budget.

30:03

The good story was The Last Weekend with Van

30:05

Halen. That one really

30:08

really defined MTV as a

30:11

serious, dangerous rock and roll

30:13

brand to consumers. There was a movie

30:16

called The Last Weekend. Gray Millan was

30:18

in there and guy loses his mind whatever and

30:20

so we just said, let's do a laws week with the band.

30:22

Who's the craziest band out there right now, van

30:25

Halen. Van Halen wouldn't do any promotion

30:27

because they were worried about their image. We called them

30:29

with the idea that we're in. We're in, and

30:32

by the way, will fulfill the contest. You

30:34

don't have to do anything, just drop off the

30:36

fans with us and we'll deliver them back on Sunday.

30:39

So we did that. The kid arrives

30:42

and they take him aout four o'clock in the afternoon, right

30:44

into the backstage, and everything you can

30:46

imagine what happened with Van Halen happened.

30:49

So by the time the band goes on stage

30:51

at nine o'clock at night, this guy is fried. There's

30:54

been things that were not a Warner m X

30:56

and condoned or MT VOUS activity.

30:58

So he's standing on age completely

31:01

out of his mind, and David Lee Roth

31:03

goes, we have the winner tonight of the MTV

31:05

Lost Weekend, Joe

31:07

Smith, you know, Joe Congratulations. They bring

31:09

on a giant sheet cake. He's got

31:12

his hands up from there and the bands around him,

31:14

and they take the sheet cake and they push it into

31:16

his face and the guy is

31:18

stunned and he starts twirling

31:21

around swinging punches at the band.

31:23

The band feaks out, They take

31:25

him off and they bring him backstage. We say to his

31:27

friend, what's wrong with him? And he said, we

31:30

forgot to tell you. He has a middle plate in his head.

31:32

He was in an accident. He's not supposed to drink,

31:34

so they had to put him in a room with a security

31:36

guard all night. But that kind of made the

31:38

legend of MTV. I wish we could take credit for that, but

31:41

that was it. So the contest. Maybe we're lucky we can't

31:43

take credit for it. You know what those contests did,

31:45

They creates the fantasy and the aspiration

31:48

that makes someone want to be attracted to a

31:50

product. MTV

31:54

could have been a flash in the pan, but the marketing,

31:56

spirit, capturing, and attitude that Young America

31:59

responded to. People tuned in just

32:01

to see what was going on in MTV. It was

32:03

a place to hang out, and as the word spread,

32:06

the channel made money. Although MTV

32:08

was the most radical of the cable channels, it

32:10

was also the first cable network to actually

32:13

make a profit, and we had the highest that revenue

32:15

of any of the cable networks. And I remember

32:17

this was a time when people didn't believe

32:19

cable networks could even be profitable.

32:22

Boy did that feel good. But part of keeping

32:24

the channel successful was continuing to think

32:26

outside the mainstream and continue

32:28

to come up with new ideas. Here's bread

32:30

again. We

32:33

had these creative promo departments. Once

32:35

people came in and started saying, well, I worked on promos

32:38

over here, I didn't want to hire them. One

32:40

of the earliest people I hired had just come

32:42

out of film school and his first job was cutting

32:44

film negatives at a pornell place. I'm like, okay,

32:47

fine, you won't remember this, but one

32:49

day you called me into your office and you said,

32:51

hey, I need you to be you know, the head of production.

32:54

I said, um, Bob,

32:56

you know I've never seen even the red light

32:58

on top of a camera go on. And you went,

33:01

oh, don't worry, you'll figure it out. And that was that,

33:03

and all of a sudden I was in television and

33:06

you did a really great job. Thank you. But

33:09

it wasn't just people like Fred who got an opportunity

33:11

to MTV. You're Judy and Tom talking

33:13

about how he kept an eye out from new talent and

33:16

groom them upward. And the culture

33:18

that the two of them kept going and

33:20

kept building at the company even after

33:22

I left. If

33:25

you think about it, in the days of MTV,

33:27

we're probably looking back at an extraordinary number

33:29

of women and very important roles.

33:32

Today would be crowing about it. Probably, you

33:34

know, whether you like it or not. You have

33:36

been mentoring people, You've been setting an example.

33:39

How do you handle that responsibility? What do you

33:41

do consciously about that? I began to see

33:43

I was sort of a better editor coach

33:46

than I was a player. I can remember

33:48

some things that just felt

33:50

like personal milestones

33:53

to be. You know. One of the great fun things

33:55

I got to do would be hang out in the

33:57

rehearsals for the Video Music Awards, and

33:59

I was there and I was thinking, Wow, you

34:01

know, we've got a female director, we have

34:03

a female on stage

34:06

managing the crew. We have a

34:08

young woman who's the head writer.

34:11

We have a young woman in charge

34:13

of seating and events. But we've got women

34:15

in roles that were not traditionally women's

34:19

roles. They were just really good. And

34:21

I do think it's incumbent on somebody

34:24

who gets an opportunity like I

34:26

got to look out for underrepresented

34:30

people in general. And so you

34:32

know, when Beth McCarthy Miller raised

34:34

her hand, was an easy like, let's

34:37

let Beth direct, come on, like, she

34:39

can do it. We know she can do it. Everybody

34:41

knows she can do it. And I looked around

34:43

and thought, Wow, this whole thing is

34:46

kind of really looking

34:49

very different than most of the other sets

34:51

that I've been on. I once heard Tina Fey

34:54

say something about a panel where

34:56

a bunch of women were sort of congratulating

34:58

each other for different things, and someone

35:00

said they were lucky, and a bunch

35:02

of other women jumped on her and said, oh my god.

35:05

Women always say they're lucky. Men never say they're

35:07

lucky. You made your own luck. And Tina was actually

35:10

very thoughtful about it, and she said, I think timing

35:13

plays a role in something as well

35:15

as luck and talent. And you know, I always

35:18

felt like I worked with men who

35:20

are not typical and young

35:22

employees who are not typical. So how

35:24

ridiculous would it be to take a typical approach

35:27

to anything else. We were up

35:30

ending tradition all

35:32

the time, and not just for the sake of

35:34

doing it, but because you give somebody

35:36

a chance, they'll knock themselves

35:38

out to show you that

35:41

they could really do it. And we actually talked about

35:43

it back then. We said, you know, if somebody has

35:45

done three or four things and they're not great, we have empirical

35:47

evidence they won't be great. But if we give

35:50

somebody a shot who's never done it, they could be the next Steven

35:52

Spielberg. Exactly right, And the only way we're gonna

35:54

find out is to take a shot. And you

35:56

continue to do that through your career. A

35:58

lot of focus was on eating a culture

36:00

that would attract creative people. They would want to come and

36:02

live there. I mean we'd have at one point Judd

36:05

Apatow or Ben Stiller or John

36:07

Stewart, Stephen Cobra, you know, Adam Sandler

36:10

would like be sleeping in the offices. Sometimes

36:12

it was a hothouse atmosphere. You were probably

36:14

the first talent incubator. I don't

36:16

think they called them that back then. How did

36:18

you pull that together? Because it is really remarkable

36:21

the people you had. Well, a lot of is sort

36:23

of what's the vibe of the place. We always wanted

36:25

to make the room for deviancy. I would

36:27

always say, who is the odd ball person, who's

36:30

the intern who's gonna come running in with an idea

36:32

like Yo, MTV raps. That was like

36:34

a twenty one year old intern who came

36:36

up with a demo in his basement. Because we

36:38

had these networks, there was a lot of room

36:40

for experimentation. Everything you made didn't

36:42

have to be really tightly organized. There was a lot of

36:44

room for improvisation and innovation.

36:48

If you have a hallmark for that, people would want to step

36:50

up and follow what's he Just try and have good standards,

36:52

provide guard rails for people, celebrate

36:55

risk, you know, we give creative people a lot of freedom.

36:59

One of the people who was crucial tim TV's

37:01

early success was former MPR CEO

37:03

y'ar al Mong. Y'arll and I went way

37:06

back. We even had a show called Album

37:08

Tracks that aired after Saturday Night Live.

37:10

But y'all had an incredible eye for programming

37:13

and when MTV had to think beyond music

37:15

videos. He played a crucial role for

37:20

me. It was a great transition

37:23

from the radio world to the television world

37:25

because there were so many similarities. If you

37:27

had picked me up and tried to drop me into

37:29

a broadcast network to do scripted filmed

37:33

entertainment. I would have, I think flailed

37:35

and failed miserably, But

37:38

ultimately we all learned a lot of lessons

37:40

about the fragility of this brand

37:43

new thing, music videos, and

37:45

that was something that we all kind of had to learn

37:48

in real time. It was humbling,

37:50

it was embarrassing, and it didn't think it stopped

37:52

working. There was so much heat around

37:54

music videos at the time, and there

37:56

were so many people watching and being really

37:59

enthralled. But but I think ultimately

38:02

it became less interesting. It

38:04

was television and we were using a lot I was,

38:07

at least using a lot of radio rules for

38:09

a different medium, and people

38:12

were making four minute decisions of

38:14

what they were going to watch and not thirty minute and sixty

38:16

minute or ninety minute decisions, and ultimately

38:19

had to switch strategy to

38:22

go to content that people

38:24

would watch for longer periods of time, long form,

38:27

and that was very controversial at

38:29

the time, but you know, it worked.

38:32

What were your first shows, And we started with the

38:34

Weekend Rock and hiring Kurt

38:36

Loader from Rolling Stone magazine and taking

38:38

the MTV news segments and making it a half

38:40

hour show, and that worked, and

38:42

then Rockumentaries a specials

38:45

as the second. The third was Club MTV,

38:48

Let's do an American band

38:50

stand for today, Let's play

38:52

music videos and hied Downtown Julie

38:54

Brown. That was a hit. Every

38:56

show that went on did well,

38:59

and then we're gonna really cocky and think, man,

39:01

we really know how to make hits. But I think

39:03

it was more a reflection of the

39:05

fact that music videos at the time it'd run their course.

39:08

The most controversial one remote Control

39:11

of the Game show, and all the research

39:13

came back said you can't do a game show. And

39:16

I remember saying to our good friend

39:18

Marshall Cohen. We worked with an MTV research

39:21

google. Yes, I said, I think we're

39:23

asking the wrong question. The question

39:26

should be if we were to do a game

39:28

show, what would it look like? And

39:32

the answer came back, well, it should be irreverencey

39:34

crazy. We used all

39:36

the information and hired

39:38

Ken Ober and Colin Quinn and

39:41

Adam Sandler was a regular on the show and it

39:43

was a monster. But the

39:46

additional research the way we asked

39:48

it indicated that that have been a disaster.

39:51

It worked out great, yep,

39:54

oh yeah, yeah. So

39:58

MTV started to a with new formats,

40:01

but its Preston remembers it the limited budgets

40:03

were actually an engine for creativity.

40:08

We couldn't just innovate it by shuffling the music

40:10

mix or changing things. That was clear. We tried

40:12

everything. We just couldn't play the top

40:14

ten videos all day long. There was always

40:17

new shows coming around. We would add shows on package

40:19

music and like on hip hop music with the OMTV

40:21

raps and so forth, and it kind

40:23

of came down to the real world that was and

40:27

that was like, well, we've tried everything else,

40:29

we should probably do a soap opera because

40:31

young people are interested in what other young people are

40:34

doing. So they came in

40:36

with a presentation to me and we had

40:38

to hire writers, and I said, well, you know, we don't have any

40:40

money to hire writers, so we can't

40:42

do this. So then Doug Herzog

40:45

came back and said, you know, we're really good at post production,

40:48

that's our major skill. What if we just rented

40:50

Aloft and soho and stuck some cameras

40:52

in there and bring these kids in and then

40:54

let them live and then we'll post it afterwards and

40:56

make it into a show. And that was that

40:58

was sort of the birth of reality TV. It

41:00

was an idea that was not

41:02

born of brilliance but born of cheap skateness.

41:06

MTV was a success story finally,

41:08

but it wasn't long before the competition started

41:11

circling. Here's Tom with the story of

41:13

what motivated us to start v H one. Ted

41:16

Turner want to come in and basically p in our

41:18

parade. He said he was going to launch a music

41:20

channel that played none of the Devil's music.

41:24

Let me say first that the cable music channel lasted

41:26

a hundred one days on the air and he had to fold

41:28

up and go home. But we decided we

41:30

can't let this happen, and if

41:32

there's gonna be a second music channel, we should

41:34

have a second music channel, and we made the case to cable

41:36

operations, we have a second music channel. You

41:39

don't want to add the Ted Turner channel, because that's just gonna

41:41

go head to head against the one you already have. Add

41:43

VH one, which was called the Very Hot

41:45

One at the time, because it would be

41:48

more compatible and it would play artists

41:50

for another demo and we would sell

41:52

it tu on a combo basis.

41:54

Basically, it was free if you already had MTV.

41:57

So we strangled him in terms

41:59

of not being able to get distribution. Therefore no advertising,

42:01

no revenue, no light on the end of the tunnel,

42:04

and he went out of business and we went forward.

42:07

Of course, launching v H one was one thing. It

42:10

was a savvy move, a classic fighting

42:12

brand. It was essential and fighting off

42:14

ted Turner channel. But once

42:17

that was over, the team had to figure out what to

42:19

do with it. The network struggled for years.

42:22

Ratings were abysmal, so John Sykes,

42:24

who left MTV by then it was called back

42:26

to lead the charge. Tom

42:30

Preston calls Jop says, come home,

42:33

needs you to fix a H one. What

42:35

did you do? As you know, Bob, because

42:37

you taught me so much of the stuff. A brand

42:39

is only valuable if there's an

42:42

underserved segment of the audience

42:44

that needs it. Hip hop was starting to happen.

42:47

Alternate music was exploding and a lot

42:49

of the traditional rock bands in R and D bands

42:51

were being pushed out and they're going like kind

42:53

off of the cliff. And I said, there's a market

42:56

here because having run a record company, a

42:58

publishing company, we were seeing these

43:01

artists that used to be called middle of the road back

43:03

then, but now they were actually vibrant pop

43:05

bands. They didn't have a place. And

43:07

then I saw who are those powerful buyers,

43:10

young adults, young college graduates.

43:13

Here's a generation. It's grown up on MTV.

43:15

They have money, they're affluent, and they

43:18

have nowhere to go. So I was as excited

43:20

actually about VH one as I

43:22

was about MTV, and MTV is iconic

43:25

and it will be there forever. But the other thing

43:27

about v H one to me also was

43:29

it was my own and I knew if I fell,

43:32

it would be on me. It would be like

43:34

out at VH one fails. They used

43:36

to call VH point one the

43:39

rating of it again and for those people ratings,

43:41

ratings are from zero to whatever

43:43

and point one zero. VH

43:48

one is the ugly step child at MTV Networks.

43:51

I used to say it was nails out the back seat of

43:53

a car to put flats and the tires of the cars

43:55

behind us, because we didn't want anybody compete with MTV.

43:58

But I said, now it quietly has their million

44:00

homes. There's a market for this. And

44:03

I looked in the room and half the people like or

44:05

asleep bicycle that Quenton staying. They

44:07

had a job, but they didn't believe in the product, but they're

44:09

reflecting a paycheck. So I said, listen,

44:12

if you don't believe in this, it's okay.

44:15

We won't make a big thing you. We're gonna fire you, but we'll

44:17

work out a package and you should leave because

44:20

we need people who going to believe in this. There's a market

44:22

for this, and I believe that this is gonna be a three million

44:24

dollar business in the next three years

44:27

if we all focus on that. So

44:29

people came to me and said, I

44:31

don't want to do this. So I didn't think they I don't

44:34

think it would come and like, I don't

44:36

think you're right, Like, okay, well,

44:38

thank you, by bye. They all came

44:40

back three years later looking for jobs. But it

44:42

was about believing in yourself, believing your

44:45

idea of hiring people around you are better

44:47

than you at executing what they did. And

44:49

we put together a team at v H one hooping

44:51

on to run NBC, Nintendo,

44:54

Bravo. We put together

44:56

an all star trip so maybe

44:58

proud and working with some of the read Stone, I mean Sun

45:00

of red Stone was on

45:03

his game. You walked in and said,

45:05

here's my plan, here's what I want to do, and

45:07

he just say, fine, go do it. If you

45:09

don't do it, I'll fire you and say that's all I want to

45:11

know. Just give me the rope, and he did. It

45:14

was a great nine years. We shattered all

45:16

the records there, but all good businesses you've got to

45:18

reinvent them otherwise they paid it off. MTV

45:22

was the starting point of a cable revolution.

45:25

The channel and the creative engine we built gave

45:27

birth to so much more. Here's some I'm

45:29

talking about just that topic. I

45:32

was ambitious and I was highly

45:35

motivated for this to succeed. I thought that we

45:37

were in this TV revolution, We had

45:39

the wind that our back. It was all going to

45:42

come true. Was too good of an idea to fail. You

45:44

know, a lot of life is about timing

45:46

and luck, and I had somehow ended up

45:49

once again in the right place at the right time,

45:51

and this was sort of my destiny.

45:53

I was going to meet my opportunity. What you did,

45:56

you know, I would say my time there, we really

45:58

proved it was a business. Were the first

46:00

cable network to make a profit. But it

46:02

was really you and your team, including

46:04

Shooting Grath, who built MTV

46:07

and the other networks into this incredible

46:09

media giant. What drove that

46:11

in? Where did that vision come from? And how

46:14

did you get there. There's a compliment to

46:16

you, Bob, I mean you are the guy. Always keep your eye

46:18

on the consumer, find out what the consumer one. We would

46:20

always see this resource the consumer wanted what

46:22

we were selling, and we could tune it up a

46:24

bit. And we also had this sort of slightly

46:27

subversive underground feel, and you know,

46:29

there was nothing really around like that, and

46:31

we would continue to launch new networks Comedy

46:34

Central or TV Land, and the whole

46:37

international world of television began to deregulate

46:40

in the late eighties. All these countries really only

46:42

had state TV pretty much as you know. So

46:44

the confidence I had built from

46:46

my years living in Afghanistan and India

46:49

was actually very transferable because I really knew

46:51

we could go anywhere and do anything. And if we could

46:53

go to Europe, we could go to Asia, we go to Latin

46:55

America. So we build really the first

46:57

worldwide television networking company,

47:00

and we rolled out not just MTV, but

47:02

also Nickelodeon and Comedy Central, a lot

47:05

of others right down through Africa. So the

47:07

business gradually evolved from one where

47:09

we would package other people's product like a music

47:11

video, to where we would increasingly own

47:14

what we did. But at the heart of it always a creative

47:16

machine, which again was something that you

47:18

put in at the inception of the company. When

47:22

we first started MTV, it wasn't just

47:24

entertainment. We built the channel to be the voice

47:26

of young America and that included doing

47:28

good and my time there. MTV made

47:31

its mark with massive events with

47:33

important missions and the Sky International,

47:35

Band Aid farm Ade, and of course Live

47:38

Aid. But it was Rock the Vote that

47:40

truly took the channel into politics, and

47:42

some say even got a president elected.

47:45

Here's Judy talking about it. You've

47:48

always done good, Rock the Vote,

47:51

chooser, lose AIDS awareness. How

47:53

did you think about that inside of a company

47:56

and how do you think of it for you as a as

47:58

a person. Well, you know, inside MTV,

48:01

it was very interesting when we decided

48:03

to get into you know, and certainly Rock

48:05

the Vote was not our idea politics

48:09

Jeff ear Off. So Jeff was very

48:11

passionate about this, and it's

48:13

sort of grewing to Rock the Vote. And I remember talking

48:15

to Tom Freston, with whom I had an

48:18

extraordinarily great creative

48:20

relationship, and this was one of the rare

48:23

instances where we had a blowout.

48:26

Really we really didn't agree, but I

48:28

listened to what he said. He said, this

48:31

is a terrible idea.

48:33

It's not gonna work. This is an entertainment

48:35

brand. Nobody cares

48:37

about this. We're gonna get laughed out

48:39

of town. We do not have permission

48:41

to do this. There's nothing about

48:44

us that says we should be stepping

48:46

anywhere near an election or voting or any of this. So

48:49

I went back and I thought about it a little bit, and I

48:51

thought, Okay, this is where I come

48:53

into the picture. I think I grew up in an era

48:56

where one of the many things I loved about music

48:58

was it's social commentary, and

49:01

it is about the times we live in, and it's

49:03

about all the things that affect you in

49:05

a very deep way. And I thought, I

49:07

think there's a way to do this where it will

49:10

be engaging. This was not about

49:12

telling young people you need to vote. That's

49:14

not the way I looked at it at all. It was saying to people

49:17

who make big decisions in this country,

49:20

this is a generation that is

49:22

disengaged from you, and you need

49:24

to address them on their turf, their

49:26

way and we'll invite you to do that. That's

49:29

your shot. It wasn't about trying

49:32

to be parental or any of

49:34

that kind of stuff to them, or give them boring

49:36

facts or anything like that. And so

49:38

we got as smart as we could get. And

49:41

I think I didn't tell anybody. That's another thing.

49:43

I sent Tabitha store, and Tabitha went

49:45

to New Hampshire and she called

49:47

me at like midnight. She said, you know, I

49:49

got up here in like a bunch of candidates

49:52

are like, what's MTV? And she

49:54

said, and then a couple of them like got back off

49:56

the bus, primarily Bill

49:58

Clinton, and said I'll

50:01

talk to you. And then we were sort of

50:03

off and running. And you know that partnered

50:05

with incredible creative work on those

50:07

rock the Vote spots, I mean Madonna wrapped

50:09

in a flag. Whatever their disagreement,

50:12

Tom Preston quickly embraced the idea. We

50:14

knew it was important to our audience. I also

50:17

knew it was extremely important to the employee base.

50:19

Employees would feel better about working there

50:21

if they knew we had some kind of social purpose

50:24

associated with what we would do. And we had a hundred

50:26

sixty eight hours a week. We could certainly squeeze

50:28

it in. It also turned out it legitimized

50:30

us in the eyes of advertisers who formally wouldn't

50:32

come near us, like American Express. But most importantly,

50:35

the audience liked it. And then fast

50:37

forward to you know, we're gonna throw an inaugural ball

50:39

that's not official, and see if anybody comes to the

50:41

party, and our em is gonna play,

50:44

and and Vogue is gonna play. We

50:46

tried to make it as spirited as

50:48

MTV, but add a little bit of gravitas,

50:52

if you will, and meaning you know, like you do

50:54

matter. You are young, but you

50:56

matter, and you deserve to be heard and listened

50:59

to, and we're going to help you. MTV

51:04

was a wonderful ride from the very beginning.

51:06

My co founders and I knew we were doing something

51:09

that was important to culture, but

51:11

we had no idea we were going to change culture.

51:14

MTV changed TV, it

51:17

changed music, it changed graphic

51:19

design, and it certainly changed my life.

51:22

No matter how old I get or whatever else

51:24

I've done, MTV is still an

51:26

important chapter in my life, and all of us

51:28

as co founders are still very much

51:30

a very type family. But the truth

51:33

is, looking back I think we all feel

51:35

the same way. Tom Freston felt when he joined the team.

51:39

I was happy to have a job. I

51:41

couldn't believe anyone was gonna hire me, and

51:45

lucky for all of us, we all kept getting

51:48

hired again and again. I'm

51:50

Bob Pittman. Thanks for listening. That's

51:55

it for today's episode. Thanks so much

51:57

for listening to Math and Magic, a production

52:00

of I Heart Radio. This show is hosted

52:02

by Bob Pittman. Special thanks to Sue

52:04

Schillinger for booking and wrangling are wonderful

52:06

talent, which is no small feat Nikkiatore

52:09

for pulling research bill plaques, and

52:11

Michael Asar for their recording help. Our

52:13

editor Ryan Murdoch, and of course Gail

52:16

Raoul, Eric Angel, Noel Mango

52:18

and everyone who helped bring this show to your

52:20

ears. Until next time, m