0:00

So, in this episode, Dan and I talk

0:02

a lot about things you can't actually see in

0:04

the audio version, but we have all these

0:06

pictures in the liner notes. So, just assume

0:09

that you'll be able to go there and look if you want.

0:12

Dan. Yes? I have a

0:14

treat for you today.

0:16

I

0:18

am very excited. You don't get to find

0:21

out what it is until you give us a food heist. Okay.

0:24

But I have a very special episode for you.

0:27

Well, I have yet

0:29

another Beargler. Oh,

0:32

the Beargler is back? I

0:35

think someone may have sent me this one on Reddit. Well,

0:38

so we have the IBS at dragonsteel.com

0:41

email address. If you have any food heists, please

0:44

send them there. It is absolutely

0:46

flooded. I get two or three or four

0:49

emails a day. Awesome. And

0:51

often they're duplicates. And so this may have been

0:53

sent by several different people.

0:56

But this one in particular, the link

0:58

that they sent me was USA Today. And

1:01

I don't know which section

1:03

of USA Today this is,

1:06

because it has hard hitting headlines like

1:08

two year old left in tears after

1:11

beluga whale pulled a face at her. That

1:15

is almost an onion

1:18

headline. Right? Yeah. Like

1:20

it's almost so mundane that it could be

1:22

a joke. Okay. So

1:25

this happened again at time

1:27

of recording. This was just three days ago.

1:30

This was in Connecticut. So if you're tracking

1:32

the Beargler's whereabouts. Beargler's

1:35

in Connecticut. They were most recently in Connecticut.

1:39

Broke into a house,

1:41

opened the freezer and stole

1:43

a frozen lasagna.

1:45

Wow. Yeah. Frozen lasagna,

1:47

huh? And apparently took

1:50

it with them

1:51

instead of eating

1:53

it there.

1:55

Because they're going to go warm it up somewhere else,

1:57

I guess. Yeah. If you're the Beargler,

1:59

you want to eat it chill. you only eat frozen so you leave

2:01

it in the stream, right? You

2:03

let it, yeah, warm it up in the stream. Yeah,

2:10

so other than that, I have no

2:12

other information. It's a video and

2:15

I am a grumpy old man. I don't

2:17

watch videos. There's

2:21

a link that someone sends me

2:23

or that I find online and it's like, oh,

2:25

this looks interesting. I'm gonna click this link and it takes

2:27

me to a video instead of an article. I'm

2:30

disappointed at it at a single time. You mean like a video,

2:33

like the news report? Yeah. Okay. Like

2:36

not a- No, if it was like someone had video

2:38

of a bear stealing a lasagna out

2:40

of a freezer, I'd watch that 100%. But

2:43

you're not gonna watch as normal news report. Somebody talking about

2:45

it? Yeah. Come on. Just write it down.

2:48

That's one of my primary boomer

2:50

traits.

2:52

So yeah. What are my primary boomer traits?

2:54

I'm boomeristic in a lot of ways too, I think.

2:57

My other one is that I hate any

2:59

website that tries to get me to download its

3:02

app. I think that's not a boomer

3:04

mentality. I think that's just in everyone. Everyone.

3:07

Okay. That's a human being attribute.

3:09

No, I don't want your app, which makes

3:12

it uncomfortable because we want to have

3:14

an app somewhere. Yeah, we wanna create an app. But what we're not gonna

3:16

do is say, download our app or

3:18

you can't do our thing, right? Like

3:21

I don't mind that all these places have apps. And when I find

3:23

out that there's something I like that has an app that makes

3:25

it, you know, I'll give it a try. But

3:28

what I don't want is the

3:30

more you try to force me to do it, the less I wanna do it. Yeah.

3:33

All right, Dan. You might have proprietary content on an app.

3:36

Yeah. But. All

3:39

right. I'm gonna bully you about it. All right. So

3:41

this is the weird thing. This is the thing that we came up

3:43

with at magic night. Oh,

3:45

okay. Where we're chatting a bunch of us together

3:48

and we're finding it very amusing

3:51

and decided it would make a good podcast

3:53

episode. And

3:55

so several people there took notes for me of

3:57

all the things that we came up with. And I've.

4:00

organized it into a quiz. Oh, okay

4:02

is for you. We're trying to understand

4:04

the universe better. Okay,

4:07

and define what things are and aren't. And

4:09

so what we're going to talk about today

4:11

is we're going to talk about what actually

4:14

makes a kaiju a kaiju.

4:17

I am so excited. I thought you I was like,

4:19

is this is cereal soup conversation?

4:22

No, this is so much cooler

4:24

than so much cooler. Okay, define

4:27

for me a kaiju. A kaiju? Yes.

4:29

As classically defined, as

4:31

far as I'm aware, a kaiju is a giant

4:34

monster that comes stomping

4:37

into town. I don't know if the stomping into town part

4:39

is vital to it, because

4:41

like Mothra flies, he doesn't stomp.

4:44

So yeah, so Mothra counts as a

4:46

giant thing. I would count. Yeah, yeah.

4:48

So let's set just a few base rules of things we

4:50

acknowledge our kaiju. Godzilla is

4:52

the quintessential kaiju. The

4:55

trope originator. trope originator.

4:57

Usually, King Kong is

5:00

then kind of like the secondary

5:03

trope initiator. And then that's why you have Kong

5:05

versus Godzilla, and these sorts of things. Then

5:07

Mothra is a kaiju basically any of the things that...

5:10

Gamora is a kaiju. Yeah.

5:13

So I am going to ask you

5:15

questions about certain things to

5:17

see if we can define what is

5:19

and isn't a kaiju. All

5:21

right. I need to point out to our audience

5:24

that I am an expert

5:26

in this because I've been published in

5:29

not one but two kaiju

5:31

anthologies. Well, there we go. Yeah. So

5:34

I'm going to start us easy with things.

5:36

I think it'll be pretty easy to answer. The

5:39

Loch Ness Monster. The Loch

5:41

Ness Monster. Loch Ness Monster. Is the

5:43

Loch Ness Monster a kaiju?

5:46

Loch Ness Monster, the way most

5:48

people describe it, I think

5:51

is too small to be a kaiju. Really?

5:53

Yeah. So what

5:55

about then Godzilla from the

5:57

American Godzilla movie

5:59

where he I wasn't as tall as most buildings. Well,

6:03

here's the thing. He's still a kaiju, isn't

6:05

he? I would say he is. But,

6:08

like, one of the main theories about

6:12

Loch Ness Monster is that it is

6:14

a plesiosaur that has just hung

6:17

on somehow. Plesiosaurs

6:20

were smaller than blue whales, and I'm

6:22

not prepared to call a blue whale

6:24

a kaiju. So I think that, at

6:26

the minimum, that needs to be our threshold

6:28

of kaiju size. See, I... Bigger

6:31

than any living thing on Earth. Has to be

6:33

bigger than... Okay, that's interesting.

6:35

That's a good definition. Well, I should say bigger than any animal,

6:38

because, like, Pando, the quaking

6:40

aspen forest is... Right. Is

6:42

Pando a kaiju? Is Pando a kaiju?

6:45

Is the Great Barrier Reef a kaiju? It

6:47

doesn't match your definition of, like, stumping.

6:49

Or, you know, like, I can't imagine them

6:52

destroying a city. I can't

6:54

imagine a Loch Ness Monster doing so. Maybe

6:57

a little Scottish village. Yeah. But

6:59

you throw Nessie into Edinburgh,

7:02

and, like, Edinburgh's gonna be

7:04

fine. He'll knock down

7:06

a couple of buildings, then he'll get tranked.

7:09

He's, like, the size of a big elephant. Okay,

7:13

okay. So you would say, for instance, like, the

7:15

T-Rex from Jurassic Park. I would

7:17

not call him a kaiju. So that's your baseline

7:20

of size. Okay, okay. The

7:22

Ents. The Ents. From

7:25

Lord of the Rings. They destroy a city.

7:28

They do. Mm-hmm. They

7:30

do, but it's not one. It's a whole

7:33

army of little ones. Yeah, but they're

7:35

still big. They're big-ish.

7:38

They're pretty big. Like, are we talking a California

7:40

Redwood Ent that's like 200 feet tall? I'm talking

7:42

about the Ent from Lord of the Rings. See, they're

7:44

just little trees. They destroy

7:47

an entire city. They

7:49

stomp on it and smash, and

7:51

they're doing all the stuff that kaiju do. I

7:53

know, but they're little. I

7:56

think of them as small. So

7:58

size is a defining... Characteristic for you for

8:01

me. Mm-hmm. Yes, okay,

8:03

okay Well, then

8:05

how about this we will go with

8:07

so you're gonna say no to serendipity From

8:11

the serendipity books earth is serendipity These

8:13

are like a little dinosaur from the cute little

8:15

children's books about serendipity the

8:18

sea monster I will take your word

8:20

for it. Okay, but like serendipity

8:22

like Generic sea monster most

8:25

of these like generic sea monsters giant

8:27

squid from 20,000 leagues on the sea These

8:29

are not kaiju to you because they're

8:32

like remnants from Yeah, I'm

8:34

gonna stick fast to my you have to be bigger

8:37

than a blue whale to be a kaiju Okay, and

8:39

a gala gone from the make from the Meg.

8:42

Yes, Meg long from the Meg is a kaiju now.

8:44

We're talking I think gargantuan

8:47

size big humongous

8:50

Ridiculously large thing is

8:53

vital. Okay to the whole thing.

8:55

So big bird Big

8:57

bird. I'm not gonna say that big birds a

8:59

kai bird doesn't get to be a kaiju No, there

9:01

are basketball players taller than big birds big

9:05

brown being is not a Kaiju

9:07

then big bird is not a okay. Okay.

9:10

Okay. I I can oh This

9:14

is bad. Yeah, we've given

9:16

us a AI

9:19

created thing of an ant with

9:21

a human face destroying a city. Okay, I

9:24

want big bird being menaced by

9:26

yeah Hover

9:28

cycles. Yeah. So

9:30

all right. I dig it. All

9:32

right Last one in this

9:35

category. No, no two more in this category. Okay

9:37

two more in this category What is this category?

9:39

This category is things that

9:42

I would traditionally call monsters But

9:44

if you saw this as a monster, so therefore

9:46

no because I thought

9:48

maybe monster has to be part of the thing

9:50

So Cthulhu Cthulhu,

9:52

let's go the other direction can thing be so

9:55

powerful that it's no longer a kaiju

9:58

Can an elder God? who

10:00

if he wakes up can extinguish

10:03

all life on the planet with a thought be

10:05

a kaiju. I gotta

10:08

say yes. Okay. Cthulhu's

10:10

a kaiju. Yeah. Okay. And

10:13

he might be so powerful that destroying the city doesn't

10:16

take him very long, but I think he's

10:18

still a big huge monster.

10:21

In the Call of Cthulhu story,

10:24

there's like an image

10:26

of Cthulhu made out of slime or

10:28

something that they sail their ship

10:31

through. That's clearly

10:33

a kaiju, I think. Even the image, even

10:36

the... Yeah. Yeah, even the...

10:38

Okay. Okay. All

10:40

right. By that definition, though, Galactus is a kaiju. Okay,

10:42

Galactus is on my list. Okay. Galactus

10:45

a kaiju. I mean, if we're

10:47

having big world destroying things be a kaiju,

10:49

like the ridiculous Eternals movie,

10:51

whatever they were serving,

10:54

they're so large that they just dwarf

10:58

actual planets. Do they count? That does

11:01

feel too big, doesn't it? I feel

11:03

like that's too big to even be a kaiju. There's

11:05

a side category above kaiju. Mm-hmm.

11:08

There has to be something bigger. So maybe we have to take

11:10

Cthulhu out. Yeah, it depends on the size

11:13

of Cthulhu. I would say Cthulhu depends

11:15

on the specific... In

11:18

the Call of Cthulhu, we don't know how big Cthulhu is. Yeah.

11:20

That's a question mark. The Cthulhu that they

11:23

released in Hero Clicks is a kaiju. Yes.

11:25

It's a certain size, you can go fight, that's a kaiju.

11:28

But the Elder God, who knows? But

11:30

I'm going to agree with you. I don't think Galactus is a kaiju.

11:33

Yeah. Yeah. He can't stomp

11:35

through a city. Can't stomp through a city. He can...

11:38

Yeah. Mm-hmm. So,

11:40

but we would say that, for instance, like the starfish monster from the

11:42

new... From Suicide Squad? Suicide Squad kaiju. 100% a

11:45

kaiju. Yeah. Yeah. So,

11:48

I think they were really going for that, so it makes sense. So, before

11:50

we leave this category... Okay, I've got one more for you. Okay,

11:53

one more? One more really good one. Okay. Clifford

11:56

the Big Red Dog. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

11:58

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

11:59

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Um,

12:02

let's see.

12:04

I don't know. He's definitely bigger than

12:06

a blue whale, isn't he? Yep. He grows,

12:08

apparently. I was instructed. I was not up

12:11

on my Clifford lore as we discussed this. Grows

12:13

as big as he is loved. So the more

12:16

people in the world that love Clifford, the bigger

12:18

he gets. Well, now I know

12:20

what horror story I want to write next. So

12:22

Clifford the big red dog. Is he a kaiju?

12:25

Yeah. So in the cartoon show,

12:28

he is shown to be literally larger

12:30

than a house. Yes.

12:36

Alright, this is our big bird destroying us. Adam,

12:38

please send me that so that I can

12:40

have it forever. He has created

12:43

kaiju big bird

12:45

just destroying a city. And

12:48

it's so wonderful. It

12:50

makes me very happy. Alright. Okay,

12:53

so here's my question. Yes. I'm going to

12:55

leave this monster category. I'm going to declare Clifford

12:57

can be a kaiju. Okay. Okay. Clifford's

13:00

a kaiju. He would have to get angry and destroy the city to really,

13:02

truly be capable

13:04

of it. Also,

13:06

the potential for him to grow much larger

13:09

than he is through pre-established

13:11

canon. I'm in.

13:14

So are there any of these where

13:16

you disagree with me? I would make the ants kaiju. I

13:19

would make an ant kaiju. Okay. I

13:22

think that the framing of them and what

13:24

they do and things like that, I

13:26

would say like they tonally

13:29

are kaiju-esque in that story.

13:32

But I could be argued out of that

13:35

position. Otherwise, I'm with you. I don't think the

13:37

dinosaurs are Jurassic Park. Nessie,

13:39

hmm. Wow. There's one of Clifford's.

13:42

Nessie, I kind of... That

13:44

could literally just be the cover of a Crimson

13:47

Files novel. Okay. I

13:50

think I disagree with you on Nessie. Nessie.

13:53

Here's my argument. Nessie's been around for hundreds

13:55

of years. So Nessie is

13:57

an immortal, right? Nessie... Some

14:00

sort of supernatural sea

14:03

monster that sure looks

14:05

like it might not be quite big enough to meet your Criteria,

14:08

but there's something special about Nessie

14:10

that I'm gonna go with Kaiju.

14:12

Okay

14:13

on well, and I Am

14:16

absolutely on board for if

14:18

we theorize that the long

14:21

Elasmosaurus neck that people

14:24

have seen if that's actually

14:26

just the tentacle of a much much

14:28

larger creature Yeah,

14:31

then you could be convinced I'm in category

14:33

two. Yeah, but I do want to

14:35

in Response to the ants

14:37

just to make clear where our opinions

14:40

are differing. Mm-hmm. I think Kaiju

14:43

have to be relatively solitary

14:46

For me to consider them. Okay, so

14:49

if you had like a whole bunch of house-sized

14:51

godzillas, I would not

14:55

Consider that like in Shin

14:57

Godzilla when it starts like spawning

14:59

little things Those are not kaiju,

15:02

but I suppose I could grant that they might

15:04

eventually grow into Kaiju. Okay. All

15:07

right next

15:09

category robots can

15:11

robots be Kaiju boy

15:15

this is Actually

15:17

a very socially fraught question. So

15:20

war of the world's tripods Assuming

15:23

that they are just entities, which

15:26

we don't know if they are or aren't we don't

15:28

know if there's pilots or you know But

15:30

let's assume that they're like robotic entities

15:32

of some sort. I don't know they die to a

15:35

common cold But war of the world's

15:38

robots were the world's robots Kaiju's

15:40

vehicle. I'm what? I'm

15:43

going back towards Pacific Rim

15:45

here. Mm-hmm one of our great works

15:47

of modern kaiju Western literature

15:50

Mm-hmm, and we have giant

15:52

robots and we have giant monsters and they are fundamentally

15:55

different and fundamentally opposed.

15:58

Oh, oh But I've got you Yeah, because

16:00

mecha Godzilla is a kaiju Canonic

16:04

shoot you're right. Haha. Dang

16:06

it. I knew you were gonna get got by this one Yeah,

16:09

so is Pacific Rim kaiju

16:12

versus kaiju What's

16:14

going on there? So Can

16:17

a vehicle boy kaiju? Because

16:19

in the Godzilla movie the new

16:21

one like mecha Godzilla is just being controlled by

16:24

like some dude But I think

16:26

original it's just like he's a robot. So

16:28

I would You're supposed to

16:31

be answering. I'm not sure that I'm

16:33

willing to say that a piloted

16:35

vehicle is a kaiju Uh-huh, and that's how

16:37

I consider the tripods from where

16:39

the world think that they had as well That would

16:41

be the same reason that like mega

16:44

made from space balls would not

16:46

be not be a kaiju Okay, she's on my list.

16:48

So good. Okay Whereas

16:51

a vongelian, mmm-hmm

16:54

like the giant robots are Overtly

16:58

organic and have their own Minds

17:01

and their own thoughts not the way even though there's the

17:04

Ava's but the things the angels Yeah,

17:06

mmm-hmm. So even though there's like the pilots

17:08

and whatever but but they're not bigger

17:11

than Nessie. Are they? They're

17:13

not bigger than and I don't imagine Nessie

17:16

or ants to be especially huge But

17:18

neither are the things the Ava's are fighting. I guess

17:20

they're as tall as a midsize building Aren't

17:23

they several stories tall? There's several stories,

17:25

but Nessie several stories tall Dan Nessie's 30

17:28

40 feet no way that Nessie is several

17:30

stories tall I know Nessie's got to

17:33

be 30 40 feet tall Yeah,

17:36

but how tall is treebeard treebirds

17:38

at least 25? Right. 25 is

17:40

little 25 is little okay. Okay

17:44

transformers

17:47

14 feet okay team. Okay,

17:50

you're right on treebeard. Yeah, I concede

17:52

this point. I have been proven wrong by the

17:54

fact checkers Treebeard

17:57

is not a kaiju. Yeah, we have

17:59

too much footage of tree beard next

18:01

to hobbits. We can extrapolate

18:04

it to well. Okay,

18:06

but transformers. Transformers.

18:09

Transformers slash, you

18:11

know, Michael Bay Transformers.

18:14

I'm gonna say they are not kaiju. Okay.

18:16

They are big robots but they're not giant

18:19

robots. And the giant one

18:21

from the cartoon, it's too big to

18:23

be a kaiju. The one that's coming to eat earth. Like

18:25

the whole planet. Yes. Yeah. But

18:27

is there a theoretical transformer

18:30

of mid-range bigger than

18:32

Optimus Prime but smaller than a planet. Would

18:35

that count as a kaiju? I think

18:37

we would have to by the rules we are establishing.

18:40

Okay. It is an autonomous creature with

18:42

its own like motility

18:45

and its own awareness. Yeah.

18:48

Okay. Honestly what I'm doing in my

18:50

head is I'm trying to imagine each

18:52

of these things knocking down a building. Mm-hmm.

18:56

By itself. So here and

18:58

you're gonna give me this one. You're gonna say that a mid-sized

19:00

transformer like a transformer that's 50 feet

19:03

tall. No, I want

19:05

him to be bigger than that. 50

19:07

feet? I mean you've already said things that are 50 feet

19:09

tall count as kaijus. What did I say that

19:11

was only 50 feet tall? I mean like

19:15

Godzilla from the American Godzilla movie. Oh

19:17

yeah he was little. Mm-hmm. So

19:20

he's 50 feet tall. 100 feet?

19:25

Yeah. Tripods are 100 feet tall. They're pretty big.

19:27

I'm pretty confident the tripods are vehicles

19:29

though. Yeah I agree with you on tripods. Tripods

19:32

don't make mine. But I think if

19:34

you give me transformer then

19:36

it means a lot. So you better

19:38

be careful about your answer. Okay so here's the thing.

19:40

Mm-hmm. I am on record as wanting

19:43

kaiju to be very large. I wrote

19:45

a bunch of adventures

19:48

and campaigns for a science

19:51

fiction horror role-playing game called Grimer Space.

19:53

Uh-huh. It hasn't launched yet as far as I'm aware

19:56

and they wanted a kaiju in one of them.

19:58

Mm-hmm. And we had huge

20:01

fights because they're like, oh no, it's 40 feet tall,

20:03

it's huge. And I'm like, that's not huge.

20:05

Give me a break.

20:06

You got to be like 100 feet tall to impress

20:08

me as a kaiju. I think that you have

20:10

some argument. I don't agree with you, but I think you have some

20:13

argument. But 100 foot tall

20:15

transformer. A hundred foot tall

20:17

transformer would absolutely be a kaiju.

20:20

Okay. Okay. 50 foot

20:22

tall, that's like a dwarf kaiju, right? Okay.

20:26

A 50 foot tall Godzilla is

20:28

to kaiju as Pluto is to

20:31

Neptune. Okay. Your

20:33

scale's off a little bit there, but we'll roll with it. We'll

20:36

roll with it. All right. All right.

20:39

Next category. Okay. This

20:41

is some questionable ones. There's

20:43

only a couple in this. But there's one that I

20:45

think really works and I want to think that you're not going to let us. But

20:48

let's go ahead with Bowser. Bowser. Bowser.

20:51

Bowser is- King of the Koopas.

20:53

Transformer-wise. Yes. The

20:56

Donald said tidal

20:58

wave. Uh-huh. That I should look

21:00

up. And this is just from Transformers fandom, which he

21:02

says on the subject side, considering an aircraft

21:04

carrier is making up just his arms,

21:07

this would make him a 2000 feet tall in

21:09

robot mode. Oh. The largest

21:11

non-planet form in any continent.

21:14

Absolutely agree that that's a kaiju.

21:16

Okay. See, that's the level I'm thinking

21:19

of. Bowser. Bowser.

21:21

Bowser. Bowser. Super

21:24

Mario Kart. Uh-huh. Bowser

21:26

is two, two and a half times taller

21:29

than Mario. That's

21:32

not even baby kaiju. That's

21:34

just a dude. I think in most

21:36

of the stories, he's no more

21:38

than five times as tall as Mario. So

21:40

he's not going to hit your 50 foot threshold. Right?

21:43

So, all right, all right. But I got a ringer

21:45

here.

21:46

Stay Puff Marshmallow Man. Oh,

21:49

absolutely a kaiju. Absolutely a kai-

21:51

how tall is the Stay Puff Marshmallow Man?

21:54

I guess he reaches the top

21:56

of the skyscraper they're on, so he's going to be

21:58

like 200 feet tall. big. 100 feet

22:01

tall. Oh, so it's your minimum.

22:03

All right, so state pop marshmallow man,

22:06

Yasakaiju. Yes. Okay.

22:08

I, you mentioned the hero clicks

22:10

Cthulhu. I actually wrote letters

22:13

to Wizkids to say please make

22:17

a horror click set of the four Ghostbusters

22:20

and then a giant marshmallow man,

22:22

because that would be the greatest thing that

22:25

does not exist as far as I'm aware. So. Okay.

22:28

Okay. So now, now the most

22:30

fun category. This is can

22:33

humans be Kaiju?

22:35

So

22:36

is Susan from

22:39

monsters versus aliens, a Kaiju?

22:41

Kaiju? I'm gonna

22:44

say yes. Okay. So the

22:46

attack of the 50 foot woman that she's based off of

22:48

Kaiju. 50

22:51

again feels small to me, but I at this

22:53

point have to concede minimum

22:55

threshold. Yeah. Examples

22:58

like that's about how talking is right?

23:00

So. So. Yeah. Well,

23:03

and yeah, Susan, absolutely. Especially

23:06

in context of that story. She is presented

23:08

as this is our Kaiju. We have, you

23:11

know, the various monster archetypes and

23:13

that's the one that she is. So the Kaiju.

23:16

Okay. Okay. Liking that

23:19

there is a scene where

23:22

Ant-Man goes giant and bursts

23:24

out of the ocean and scares people

23:27

on the docks. Is

23:31

Ant-Man a Kaiju? I

23:34

mean, even in end game, the

23:37

big giant Ant-Man that bursts out

23:39

of the ground. He's

23:41

always taken out giant monsters. Framed

23:44

Kaiju like in his filming. Yep.

23:47

I'm going to grant this one. You're going to grant me. Yeah,

23:50

man. All right. Quick update. Yeah.

23:52

Okay, Adam, every

23:54

time you interrupt us, you have to say the thing

23:56

that the guy says on Iron Chef.

24:01

I don't know the little down on the floor

24:03

guy who's I don't know what it is

24:05

But you know what I'm talking about right know what you're talking

24:07

about. Yeah, I think he says the name of the guy Okay,

24:10

anyway, go ahead. What do you actor? While creator

24:12

and this is Wikipedia, a

24:13

very different number of different King

24:15

Kong is in 24 feet tall and many of the relative earnings

24:18

is built from models that scale in tall

24:20

to the only 18 feet tall on Skull

24:23

Island and we scale 24 feet

24:25

tall in the U.S.

24:27

Okay, so the original King Kong is 24

24:29

feet tall by Wikipedia. I

24:31

think King Kong has been grown. And the Peter Jackson

24:34

King Kong's about that size, right? He's bigger

24:36

than 18 feet. The Skull Island

24:38

King Kong is much bigger. So we've been

24:40

pushing

24:43

to my last one. Okay. All

24:45

right. All right. I like this. This

24:47

is this is good. So we've established

24:49

some ground rules. This is all in

24:52

service of something. Okay. So

24:57

for for reasons that I cannot

25:00

quite explain,

25:01

my brother and I have gone to

25:03

all of the Spongebob Squarepants movies.

25:06

Okay. We don't necessarily watch

25:09

Spongebob religiously, but

25:11

it's a thing that Jordan and I have done

25:14

for whatever reason is like, it's a Spongebob

25:16

movie. Sure. We'll go to it. And so

25:18

we have consistently gone to the Spongebob movies.

25:21

Now, in one of the Spongebob movies,

25:24

Spongebob and Patrick have come

25:26

up on shore to visit Earth, right?

25:29

Not Bikini Bottom and there on Earth, but you know, the

25:31

surface world and they've gone

25:33

on an adventure, but they need to return

25:36

home at speed

25:38

and are trapped and unable to do so. I know

25:41

where you're going with this. And they are there

25:43

alone and David

25:46

Hasselhoff shows up and

25:49

offers to take them back. And

25:51

then turns into a

25:54

boat that they

25:56

climb on his back and have a climactic

25:58

fight against the villain. on a giant

26:01

David Hasselhoff's back. Now,

26:03

here's why I've tracked

26:06

you, because you

26:09

have indicated that size is

26:11

the most important thing, but it's

26:14

size by scale, because

26:16

to a transformer, being

26:18

that size is normal. It's

26:21

not something huge that

26:23

comes to earth, is a kaiju,

26:26

even if, because a lot of these kaiju, they're society,

26:28

this would be normal. So it's the perception of

26:30

the people that the story

26:32

is being told about whether or not something is

26:34

a kaiju. So I think by these rules,

26:38

David Hasselhoff, by relative sizes

26:40

more than 50 feet tall compared

26:42

to SpongeBob, as a normal person,

26:46

I think by these rules, David Hasselhoff has

26:48

to be a kaiju. Here's the

26:51

question. Yes. Because I've seen

26:53

the clip where they're riding on

26:55

Hasselhoff's back. Yes. Oh,

26:58

they found the David Hasselhoff model. They

27:00

had to build a David Hasselhoff out of,

27:02

yeah. So do

27:04

we see him in Bikini Bottom? Like

27:07

stomping around? No, he actually,

27:09

he puts SpongeBob and Patrick in

27:11

between his packs and flexes and shoots them down.

27:14

Shoots them down. So he's above Bikini Bottom

27:16

and he shoots them down to the city. Okay, so

27:18

first of all, I'm gonna say that there

27:21

is an argument that could be made, that

27:24

because we are only seeing SpongeBob

27:27

and Patrick as a part of Hasselhoff's

27:30

world in NetDead of vice versa. I

27:32

think it's all framed from their viewpoint. Everything

27:35

is huge that they've gone to. If you make

27:37

that argument, then if Jack goes to the Giants and

27:39

the Beanstalk, then we're not seeing

27:41

from the Giants viewpoint. We're seeing

27:43

from the humans viewpoint going to another world. Those

27:46

still have to be kaiju to him, right? Well,

27:49

yes. I'm fine with Giants

27:51

being kaiju. Like we go to Kong's

27:54

Island. Kong doesn't stop being a kaiju as we're

27:56

in his world. Well, that's true. Here's

27:58

the thing though, is if we... We say yes to this.

28:01

We are opening the door to like, every

28:05

human in a borrower's book is

28:07

a kaiju. Came up on our conversations.

28:10

Like I don't know. That feels

28:13

dangerous. If we're going to define kaiju

28:15

not as something huge but as something

28:18

huge relative to the

28:20

perceiver, that feels

28:22

like it's just too much. It has

28:24

to be relative to perception though. So

28:27

then Secrets of Nim

28:30

is a kaiju story. Yes.

28:33

I think it had like, so would

28:35

King Kong stop being a kaiju or

28:37

would Godzilla stop being a kaiju? If you found

28:40

out it actually took place on an alternate

28:42

Earth where all the humans were really small

28:44

and he was our size. In

28:47

this theoretical mind experiment,

28:50

if you discover those movies all take place and

28:52

Godzilla is a human

28:54

size, does that make him not a kaiju? Obviously

28:58

it does not change the fact that he's a kaiju. Okay.

29:02

I'm uncomfortable with this. This

29:05

feels like cheating. I

29:08

mean, it's just basic

29:10

Einsteinian physics. Theory

29:13

of relativity. I am willing to

29:15

grant that if

29:18

we are judging primarily by size

29:20

then we can allow size to be relative.

29:23

Andy is a kaiju to Woody and Buzz.

29:25

Right? Sure. Or

29:28

rather, let's say a giant

29:30

compared to that. Because

29:33

kaiju, as much as we've been

29:35

defining it by size, feels like it has

29:37

other factors. It does. And

29:40

so something that is too

29:42

big for the world that they're in, something

29:45

that is specifically

29:47

destructive and often

29:50

accidentally destructive,

29:53

that is not helping my argument

29:55

because I just described Sid in

29:58

The World of the Toys. I

30:00

don't know. All I'm taking

30:03

from this is

30:06

that Ben is a kaiju.