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Support for NPR comes from FX

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with Shogun, an original series based

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on the novel by James Clavell.

0:07

FX's Shogun is an epic saga

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of war, passion, and power set

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in feudal Japan, starring Hiroyuki Sonata

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and Anna Sawai, February 27th on

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Hulu. Hey

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everybody, it's Brittany Luce, and thank you so

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npr.org/ibamsurvey.

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Thank you so much. Hello,

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hello. I'm Brittany Luce, and

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you're listening to It's Been a Minute from

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NPR, a show about what's going on in

1:01

culture and why it doesn't happen by accident.

1:11

Today, I'm talking to

1:14

a legendary choreographer, the

1:16

world-renowned Fatima Robinson. And

1:19

even if you don't recognize her name, you've

1:21

probably tried out some of her dance moves.

1:24

She gave us the iconic King

1:26

Tutting Moves from Michael Jackson's Remember

1:28

the Time video. And

1:34

she had us all rocking the boat

1:36

with Aaliyah. Aaliyah

1:40

was special. When we got together

1:42

and started dancing, it was like

1:44

synchronized swimming. And did you

1:46

try to copy the Beyonce Blue Ivy dance

1:48

break in My Power? Well,

1:52

Fatima was the director of

1:54

choreography on Beyonce's Renaissance tour.

2:00

Okay? And

2:04

it doesn't stop there. The team

2:06

also choreographed for movies like The Color

2:08

Purple and Dreamgirls, and events like The

2:11

Oscars, The Super Bowl, and this year's

2:13

Grammys. The list goes on.

2:16

All that to say, she's had an

2:19

incredibly prolific career, and she's worked

2:21

through all kinds of changes in

2:23

how we dance, including TikTok. I

2:26

called her up to talk about how she choreographed

2:28

one of the biggest films of last year,

2:31

in addition to one of the splashiest tours

2:33

of all time, and what causes

2:35

the dance moves of the day to change. Fatima,

2:40

welcome to It's Been A Minute.

2:42

Hi, thanks for having me. Oh

2:45

my gosh, my pleasure. This is very, very,

2:47

very exciting. Your body of

2:49

work includes so many

2:51

iconic pieces. You said

2:54

recently in another interview that with The

2:56

Color Purple, this is the first time

2:59

you've watched your work and not critiqued it.

3:01

What makes you so proud of this choreography?

3:05

I just love how the dance is

3:07

a character in this film. I

3:10

definitely looked at

3:12

the storytelling side first,

3:15

and the dance came second. And

3:17

I think you really feel that when you watch it. Yes,

3:20

the transitions into dance are

3:23

so smooth, but also they

3:25

served a purpose visually within

3:27

the film setting in a

3:29

way that moved the story

3:32

along. Yes, those transitions

3:34

are so important to musicals, because a

3:36

lot of times it

3:38

just breaks into song and dance, and you're

3:40

like, wait, but why? And

3:43

we wanted to answer that question and make

3:45

sure that you understood the why, and it

3:47

made sense to the story. I

3:50

really, I see dance

3:53

everywhere, and so the

3:55

little nuances of the rolling of

3:57

the neck when a woman is...

4:00

had it up to here, you know, you

4:02

know, when she is completely over you,

4:04

she is rolling her neck and can't be bothered.

4:07

I made that a dance. When

4:10

Corey is building the

4:12

house, the energy of

4:14

the guys and the chanting, uh,

4:16

huh, I took a page out

4:18

of black fraternities and

4:26

how they come together and the

4:28

stepping and how that that

4:31

is unity between brothers together.

4:34

No, that's something I absolutely felt as a

4:36

viewer. I wonder, was there a moment from

4:38

the film when you were watching it where

4:41

you were like, Oh yeah,

4:43

I did that. That's so

4:45

funny. I think push

4:47

the button. Yes.

4:49

That club to join.

4:57

The idea of the lights going out. I

5:00

remember being in rehearsal and like running over to

5:02

the lights and turning off the lights on

5:05

that part and making it real

5:07

like dark and sexy. And you

5:09

know, I've been going to Jamaica for

5:11

30 years on holiday, hanging out in

5:13

clubs, going to reggae clubs. And I

5:16

was growing up. I always said clubs

5:18

were my classrooms. I'm self taught bringing

5:20

that into this dance, into the

5:22

story, that type of wind

5:25

in that we see at the reggae clubs

5:27

and how much fun that is.

5:29

I just thought this was such

5:32

a wonderful place to put it. And I

5:34

love the reaction that I get when I'm in

5:36

the theater. Everyone's like, Ooh,

5:38

you know, it's

5:40

so great. Oh, it is so great. I

5:43

mean, for those who don't know, push

5:45

the button is it's an electric

5:47

moment in the film. And as

5:50

you say, the lights go out.

5:52

People get closer. It's a very

5:54

specific Southern Georgia setting

5:56

from a hundred years ago. But as you said, as

5:59

you see in Jamaica. Everybody knows

6:01

what it's like when you're in the

6:03

club and the lights are low or

6:05

the lights go out and

6:08

everybody starts grabbing on each other.

6:10

Everybody knows what that feels like and you capture it

6:12

so well in that scene. Yes, thank you.

6:15

You described yourself as

6:17

a self-taught choreographer and as you

6:19

just said, clubs are your classrooms to

6:22

learn what the latest dances are and

6:24

how people show joy. And

6:26

so I have to ask, when you go to the club

6:28

to see what people are doing, are

6:32

you dancing with them or are you

6:34

like standing on the side with a

6:36

little drink? Sometimes

6:38

I'm dancing with them and sometimes I'm standing

6:40

on the side just enjoying what they do.

6:44

I'm getting up there and it's

6:46

just a different way you move

6:49

when you're older. But

6:51

I'm so inspired by all the

6:54

dancers that I get to work

6:56

with and surround myself with

6:58

because they bring the club into

7:00

rehearsal. I mean, I have to say, I

7:03

have recently retired from regular appearances at

7:05

the club so I'm always impressed to

7:07

anybody who keeps up with what's going on.

7:10

But I'm curious if you've noticed any changes

7:12

in the last five years or so as

7:15

TikTok dances have really taken off. Like, is

7:17

that something that you're seeing reflected in the

7:19

clubs? Oh, you definitely see

7:21

people do TikTok dances in the club

7:23

when the songs come on because TikTok

7:26

is black families when we

7:29

would get together for barbecues and stuff. We

7:31

always dance and that's where

7:33

dance moves would come from and then we

7:35

would share them and travel and

7:37

that's all TikTok is really. And so

7:40

when it travels all over the place,

7:42

like even in rehearsal, I'm always asking

7:44

them, what's the latest TikTok? If I'm

7:46

with kids, if I hire any

7:48

young kids, I'm like, show me what you do.

7:51

And then I'm learning all the dances from them. And

7:54

it's so fun to like every now and then I'll

7:56

go to a party or club or something. And yeah,

7:58

you put out when the song comes. The are

8:00

you want to automatically go into

8:02

those move It makes it so

8:04

much fun! It's

8:07

so true. This is the as I am not

8:09

the best. Dancer: I little with them

8:11

but there's as dance that is so

8:13

complex that is from that Korean dance

8:15

competition that's really big called Street Woman

8:18

Fighter. Iv There's this

8:20

viral. Dance that one of the teams

8:22

did with this really catchy song. And

8:27

everybody and tic tacs are doing yes and then

8:30

like I watched in video that I was like

8:32

well why can't I do this So I started

8:34

learning the moves and I mean I would win

8:36

for my husband is probably. That suit. Would

8:38

I do? It fits. It's so what's

8:40

up I'm to see a dance Be excited

8:42

by it's see how much joy it

8:44

brings out people to do and then people

8:47

jumping on that. Topic, I

8:49

just find it so much.

8:52

Find It's an inspiring place to

8:54

go see how young people are

8:56

moving their bodies young and old.

8:58

Second, Coming.

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Up city my on choreographing

9:03

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stack for a great cause. Dance

10:33

is, of course, important. And it's

10:35

been around as long as people

10:37

have been around. But culturally, it

10:40

has ebbs and flows. You

10:42

choreographed for the

10:44

Backstreet Boys. And I was in middle school.

10:47

I was in the NSYNC early. But I loved that

10:49

video. We did the little, you know, we did it

10:51

all the time, little everybody, little things. I

10:53

love that. I love

10:56

that. I remember that moment so

10:58

clearly of boy bands in the late 90s

11:00

and early 2000s. And they had to

11:02

dance. Like, I remember going to see NSYNC when I was 11. They

11:04

were doing backflips. Like, but then

11:07

maybe 10 or

11:09

so years later, there was

11:11

this like long moment where boy

11:14

bands did not really dance. One Direction in

11:16

the 2000s, they didn't

11:18

really dance like that. But I

11:20

kind of argue that right now, we're

11:23

definitely back in a dance

11:25

moment. Is that what you're seeing

11:27

as well? Do you feel like dance is

11:29

kind of having a moment right

11:31

now in our pop culture? And what

11:34

do you think changed to make dance more prominent

11:36

right now? Dance

11:38

comes in waves. It's always been

11:40

popular with pop music. But

11:43

when Gangster Rap came out, it wasn't

11:45

cool to dance anymore. And so hip

11:47

hop kind of shifted and People

11:50

stopped dancing as much. But What happens

11:52

is it just goes underground and reinvents

11:54

itself and then comes out with a

11:56

whole nother. Now we're crumping and we're

11:58

aggressive And we can. Right

12:01

where we can move to that

12:03

type of music because we're doing

12:05

it from this like could keep

12:07

it real hard way. you know.

12:09

it always continues to reinvent. Itself

12:11

and I feel like we're in a

12:13

state right now. Or social media so

12:16

popular. And is to talk and you two

12:18

were keeping it. Alive and and

12:20

also. Revealing. Dances

12:23

from other countries and other

12:25

places. That normally we would

12:27

even have access to of

12:29

because we do It allows

12:31

for. Us to really get

12:33

serve like lean and through all

12:36

the fun of what dances and

12:38

so. I just think

12:40

that social media has given. It

12:42

a whole other platforms to

12:44

thrive. Speaking. Of social

12:47

media a lot of the choreography. That you

12:49

did for the Renaissance tour went. Viral.

12:52

And was their opening night. Setting.

12:55

Is right there. Are

13:01

my husband I had the times. Are Live! Was

13:03

it an incredible. It. Was incredible but

13:05

in all center every time I open

13:07

up tic tacs I mean it was

13:09

like I was getting clip after. Clip

13:12

after clip of choreography. It

13:14

It was interesting to me

13:16

because I could understand it

13:18

in appreciate. It in both of those different

13:20

forms. And it seemed to me like beyond

13:22

say as a director was thinking. About how

13:25

the World tour would work for

13:27

you know. A. The people

13:29

attending be the people seen clips

13:31

on social media and then see

13:33

the people watching documentaries and to

13:35

see years and you collaborated with

13:37

her on on all this. How

13:39

did you react to see your

13:41

work in all those different. Places.

13:44

you know that you're part of something

13:46

that's really big and something that you

13:48

feel gonna shift coach jeremy the album

13:51

in the music alone was shifting culture

13:53

to just reminds me of when i

13:55

was a twelve year old girl going

13:57

to see jackson five for the first

13:59

time that was a big concert. For

14:01

me, it's like Beyoncé is on Michael

14:04

Jackson of now and it was just

14:06

so such an honor to

14:08

be a part of something so huge.

14:11

Once you put the dynamic of

14:13

such an incredible stage show that

14:15

really came from her mind, then

14:18

you knew that you were on to

14:20

something really exciting and it's so fun

14:22

to watch, you know, you were there

14:24

for the first show to see that

14:26

first show, to see the things that

14:28

you go with a crowd response to

14:30

this, with a loud love this. Like

14:32

when she first did it, that

14:35

pause. The mute. We didn't know.

14:37

No one knew and everyone kept singing the song

14:40

and they were so confused. And I remember going,

14:42

maybe we should take that out of the song

14:44

because it doesn't seem like it's landing. And

14:47

she just kept doing it. Look

14:50

around everybody all around. Look

14:54

around everybody. And then next

14:56

thing you know, when people sharing

14:58

things online, everyone did the mute and

15:00

it was like, what? It

15:02

was crazy. And it's why

15:04

putting stage performances together is one of

15:07

my favorite things to do as a

15:09

choreographer. Because when you see 80,000 people at one

15:13

point enjoying a

15:15

song, emotionally being attached

15:18

to the music because

15:20

the visuals, because of

15:22

their dance and the excitement

15:24

they're experiencing. To me, that's just

15:27

the best. Thank

15:29

you so much for coming on the show today

15:31

and thank you for sharing your gift with all

15:33

of us. I really appreciate it. Thank you

15:35

so much. Thank you for a

15:38

great interview. You uplifted my day. Oh

15:40

my gosh, you two literally said, I'm about to

15:42

start my wish. I'm about to start my weekend

15:44

now. This is so nice. Have a cocktail for

15:46

me and go out. You

15:48

know what? I just might. Thanks

15:53

again to Fatima Robinson. You can see

15:55

her work in the color purple, Renaissance,

15:58

and beyond. Hey

16:03

Brittany. Hey

16:11

Brittany. Hey

16:14

Brittany. Love

16:16

your show. This is Tiffany from

16:18

New Jersey. Since a lot of people

16:21

will be celebrating Valentine's Day this weekend

16:23

with our friends and lovers, I've

16:25

been wondering what are some gift

16:27

ideas that aren't just the usual

16:30

flowers and chocolate. Hey Tiffany. Thank

16:32

you so much for calling all

16:34

the way from New Jersey in

16:36

with this question. Now me myself

16:38

personally, I'm actually not really that

16:40

into Valentine's Day. Me and my

16:42

husband have been together for almost nine years at

16:45

this point. And we

16:47

like to do birthdays as like the big

16:49

thing because that's like your special individual holiday.

16:51

You know what I'm saying? But Valentine's Day

16:53

to me is about

16:56

love, comfort, and just showing somebody

16:58

that you thought about them, right?

17:01

In the spirit of that, we're trying

17:03

to think about going beyond the

17:05

same kind of flowers and chocolates

17:08

that are at every single

17:10

checkout line from CVS to

17:12

your local florist. Now

17:14

I mean you can never go wrong with

17:16

a handwritten card. You also can

17:18

never go wrong with cold hard cash in my opinion on

17:20

a day like Valentine's Day. But what

17:23

you're looking for is an answer that's a little bit

17:25

more creative. Now me myself personally,

17:27

what I would love to receive is

17:29

like a

17:32

year long paid subscription

17:34

to a niche film

17:36

streaming app. Like I'm a big

17:38

movie girl, MUBI. They

17:40

have all types of really beautiful

17:43

but also sometimes really random like

17:45

18 minute short films that

17:47

are about somebody frying an egg while crying

17:49

from like 1976. That's

17:52

my type of carrying on. If you get me one

17:54

of those, that's a surefire way to my heart. But

17:56

additionally, I'm a practical gal as well so I wouldn't

17:58

turn down a gift card. Me and myself

18:00

personally, speaking for Brittany Luz only, a

18:03

Cheesecake Factory gift card will absolutely

18:05

win your way into my heart.

18:07

And also in light of the fact that some of us

18:09

still may be recovering from the holidays, I

18:12

think that perhaps maybe the greatest, most thoughtful gift

18:14

that you could give in lieu of flowers

18:16

and chocolates is to pay a

18:18

student loan bill, because

18:20

that never stops, no matter what the holiday

18:23

is. So all

18:25

that considered, I think I've given

18:27

you some pretty good ideas to

18:29

work with. But I hope that

18:31

regardless of whatever your relationship status,

18:33

who you love or how you

18:35

love, you have a beautiful Valentine's

18:37

Day weekend with those you care

18:39

about, even if that's

18:41

just you. Tiffany,

18:44

thank you so much for calling in with this question. And

18:47

I hope you have a fab weekend full of

18:49

whatever you love. Hey,

18:51

everybody. Brittany Luz here. And thank you so much

18:53

again for listening to It's Been a Minute from

18:56

NPR. Before you leave, I

18:58

have one small ask. If

19:00

you have a spare 10 minutes, you can

19:02

help us out by completing a short anonymous

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survey about how we've been doing with this

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19:12

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19:14

be doing all of us here at iBAM

19:16

a huge favor. That's

19:20

npr.org/ibamsurvey.

19:22

Thank you so much. This

19:25

episode of It's Been a Minute was

19:27

produced by Barton Gertwood, Alexis Williams, Liam

19:30

McBain, Corey Antonio Rose. This

19:32

episode was edited by Jessica Placzak,

19:35

Belal Qureshi. Engineering support came

19:37

from Gilly Moon. Our

19:40

executive producer is Verilynn Williams.

19:43

Our VP of programming is Yolanda Sangwenni.

19:46

All right. That's all for this episode of

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It's Been a Minute from NPR. I'm

19:50

Brittany Luz. Talk soon. Want

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