0:04

Hi Russ .

0:06

Dana , how's life treating you ?

0:07

It's good . I feel like I haven't seen you in a while . How have you been

0:09

?

0:10

Living the dream , always trying to find new ways

0:12

to solve problems , and business

0:14

brings plenty of those , so it's exciting

0:16

.

0:17

Yes , and we are going to talk to another

0:19

business owner today . We are joined by Brian

0:21

Clayton . He is a successful entrepreneur

0:24

and co-founder of GreenPow

0:26

. Brian , welcome to

0:28

. It's Just Business .

0:30

Dana and Russ great to be here . Thanks for

0:32

having me on .

0:33

Thank you for being here . All right , so

0:36

you started manual labor

0:38

landscaping business and

0:40

now you are still in kind

0:42

of that sphere , but in

0:45

a different capacity . So tell us about your

0:47

journey into business .

0:48

Yeah Well , so

0:50

you're exactly right . I started a lawn mowing

0:53

business in high school as a

0:55

way to make extra cash . I actually I

0:57

wasn't like a natural born entrepreneur

0:59

, I was actually forced into it by my dad . I

1:02

think he got tired of watching me play Super

1:04

Mario Kart all day long and

1:07

he said , hey , get off your butt . I lined

1:09

up a gig for you . You're going to go mow

1:11

the neighbor's yard . And it was like a

1:13

direct order . It wasn't . I wasn't living

1:15

in a democratic household , so

1:18

he made me go mow the neighbor's yard and

1:21

for an hour work hours worth of work

1:23

I've got paid 20 bucks and that was awesome

1:26

. And I was hooked on entrepreneurship from

1:28

that moment , ever since , as a 14

1:31

or 15 year old kid . And so I remember

1:33

the first thing I did is I passed out some flyers around the neighborhood

1:35

and by the end of that first

1:38

summer I had like 20 customers and I

1:40

was off and going and just stuck with that

1:42

lawn mowing business all through high school . And

1:44

then when I went to college , I wasn't like I didn't

1:46

get like a scholarship or anything . I had to figure out a way to get cash

1:48

to put myself through school and

1:51

so I mowed grass all day long

1:53

and went to school at night . And then , after I graduated

1:56

college , I had to make a decision Was I going

1:58

to go

2:00

into the job market and take a pay

2:03

cut because I was making some pretty

2:05

good money mowing yards , or

2:08

stick with this lawn mowing business ? I really didn't want

2:10

to be a lawn guy my whole life , like

2:12

it wasn't why I went to business school . It

2:14

really didn't appeal to me that way . I

2:16

actually hated mowing grass . I hated the smell

2:18

of cut grass , I hated everything about it really

2:20

. But I thought this

2:22

could be my lane , this

2:25

could be my way to , like , make

2:28

something of my life and build a real

2:30

business in this industry . And so

2:32

I took what little I learned in business school

2:34

and I made a little business plan and , over

2:36

like a 15 year period of time , little

2:38

by little , year by year , grew it

2:40

into a real company . Eventually

2:43

, like I got it around 150 employees

2:45

and $10

2:47

million a year in revenue . And then

2:49

in 2013 , the business

2:51

was acquired by a national company

2:54

in the space . And so who that business ? From

2:56

just me and a push mower to me and like 150 people

2:59

, learned a little bit about how to

3:01

grow and scale a company and then

3:03

sold that and then kind of , I didn't

3:05

like retire , but I didn't have to work anymore . It

3:07

was a weird thing . I was only like 32 years

3:09

old , so I had enough money to like

3:11

do what I wanted to do . So I thought the

3:14

game was over and I thought , well

3:16

, I'll just like live the good life . And

3:18

that was very boring and

3:21

it only lasted like three months , maybe six , and

3:23

I thought , well , what am I going to do with my life now ? It was like a reflective

3:26

period of my time of my life , and I thought , well

3:29

, I want to get back in the game , I want to , I want

3:31

to start another company . But

3:33

what am I going to do ? And I remember I got

3:35

done watching the social network and I thought

3:37

that looks fun . Running

3:40

a tech company looks fun , maybe

3:42

I can do that . And I thought , well , what kind of tech business

3:45

should I run ? And I thought , well

3:48

, somebody's going to build an app that works like Uber

3:50

, but for long care , and I know the long care

3:52

business . Why can't that be me ? And

3:55

it was kind of naivete as an asset . I didn't

3:57

really understand how challenging it was going to be to start

3:59

a tech company but recruited two

4:01

co-founders and we started the idea

4:03

of GreenPow , which is the Uber for long

4:05

care . And now you know

4:07

, here we are , 10 years later . Greenpow is a 10

4:09

year overnight success around

4:12

300,000 people using the app to get

4:14

lawn mowing services and profitable

4:18

and self funded . And

4:21

so , like you mentioned , it's 23

4:23

years and kind of one industry on

4:25

the blue collar side , in the trenches side , and now on the

4:27

tech side .

4:30

So tell me with and I love that you can use

4:32

another industry's brand to

4:34

kind of educate what you do . Very simply

4:37

, you say that it's the Uber

4:39

for long care and I know exactly what you mean . I

4:41

go in the app . I find somebody can mow my lawn

4:43

. They show up and do it . I pay them through the app

4:45

. So there's got to be

4:47

a lot of pieces to that . There's got to be some education

4:50

factor to that . So what are the biggest

4:52

surprises that you ran into ? You

4:54

know , even though you knew the industry . But

4:56

going into this tech side , it's a great

4:58

question .

4:59

So the yeah

5:01

, there's a lot of unknown , unknowns , and

5:04

so the first thing is I

5:06

was kind of like solving

5:08

my own problem . So I was able to start on

5:10

first base because I saw how difficult

5:12

it was to like just order a basic lawnmower

5:14

service for homeowners and

5:17

because , running my first company , people

5:20

called us every day like 40 , 50 , sometimes

5:22

as many as 100 people a day wanting

5:25

us to do this , come out and mow their yard , and we no

5:27

longer did those residential basic

5:30

services so we would refer them out

5:32

to like smaller server providers and

5:38

then people would call us back and they would say , hey , I called all

5:40

those names that you referred me to and none of them called me back

5:42

, and so we were in like this loop and

5:45

so I figured like technology could solve

5:47

that problem . I saw it every single day . So

5:50

I think if you're starting a new piece of technology , it could

5:52

be helpful to solve your own problems in that

5:54

way , and that authenticity in that

5:56

way can be a competitive advantage

5:58

. And so it definitely was for us . We were able to

6:00

kind of start on first base , knowing the industry

6:02

, knowing what we were trying to do

6:05

with tech and make it better . But

6:07

that was it . Like everything else , we kind

6:10

of had to learn . And so we

6:12

had to learn how to build software , learn how to code

6:14

, learn how to design software , learn how to do all

6:16

these things . That took a few years and

6:19

then did all that , built the product and thought

6:21

, wow , that was really hard . Oh , this should be easy

6:23

now . And then we were confronted

6:25

with like , no , that's the easy part . The

6:28

hard part is actually getting awareness

6:30

around this new product and , again , marketing

6:32

and distribution around the new

6:34

product . That , like distribution , kills

6:36

more new technology products than anything

6:39

, because that is the

6:41

hard part . And so

6:43

then we had , like , began the daunting task

6:45

of like how do we get people to know

6:48

about GreenPowell ? How do we get people to find GreenPowell

6:50

when they need a lawn mowing service ? How do we place

6:52

this product kind of in their just natural

6:55

journey and when they're trying to

6:57

solve this problem ? And that's a lot harder

6:59

than building the product itself . So that

7:01

was one thing that I didn't know starting

7:04

this business , that that went

7:06

. There's a big like difference between running

7:08

a traditional type of small

7:10

business landscaping company , construction

7:12

company , restaurant , you name it . They're hard , they're

7:16

hard enough , but it's like a hundred times

7:18

harder to invent a brand new product from scratch

7:20

that does not exist , nobody knows about , nobody

7:23

knows they use it to solve their problem , because

7:25

that's like an order of magnitude more difficult . And so

7:28

for me , we just took it one

7:30

step at a time , like we just got to get 100 people

7:32

to use it and nothing else matters

7:34

until we go and find 100 people to use it . And

7:36

then , after we got to 100 , we thought , ok , now

7:38

we got to 100 . Now we just need to get to a thousand

7:40

. And the gap between 100

7:42

to a thousand was like two years and

7:44

we just kept , we kept making

7:46

these little small goals and these they

7:49

didn't add up . They compounded over time and

7:51

now we're at 300,000 people using it . We

7:54

want now we want to get to a million . We need a million people

7:56

using this . But took a long time and

7:58

I didn't know . Nobody told me that . Nobody told

8:00

me that it was a lot more challenging to

8:03

to get the product in people's hands

8:05

and distribute it than actually building

8:07

it in the first place .

8:09

So I have a question related to the sale

8:12

of your original business , because we often

8:14

don't talk about . When you

8:16

start a business , you don't ever think about it

8:19

not existing anymore

8:21

in your life , right ? So when ? When

8:23

you were 32 and you , you sold

8:25

it , were you looking to sell it at that point

8:27

, or ?

8:29

Good question . It's so anybody

8:32

running a business . Some people run

8:34

a business thinking they're going to have it forever and hand

8:37

it down to their kids , and then some people like have

8:39

these , these dreams of selling it one

8:41

day . And I think , as

8:43

you are running and building the business , you need to like

8:45

really know what the end

8:47

game looks like and you need to plan for

8:50

it and you need to execute a strategy

8:52

against that , that , that that

8:54

end point , like . My

8:57

favorite book is the Seven Habits of Highly

8:59

Effective People , and one of the things that that book talks

9:02

about is begin with the end in mind

9:04

. And and I think if

9:06

you're running a business doesn't matter if you're , even

9:08

if it's just you cleaning houses you

9:10

need to begin with the

9:12

end in mind as to what that

9:14

looks like in five or ten years and then work backwards

9:17

from that . I did not do that

9:19

, and so I thought I

9:21

really thought that I was going to run . I didn't really even

9:23

think about it and I thought I was just going to run the business forever

9:26

and I thought it was very as a very good lifestyle

9:28

business . But there was a very

9:30

weird thing that I didn't understand was happening

9:33

at the time of running it , that that

9:35

I was getting fulfilled by

9:37

the evolution of of me

9:40

growing alongside the business's growth

9:42

. So so , if you're doing any business

9:44

well , you

9:46

should evolve into a whole new person every

9:48

year , two or three years you

9:51

should be completely unrecognizable

9:53

as to the person you were five

9:55

years ago versus the person you are today

9:57

, because the business is extracting

10:00

these , like these , learnings from

10:02

you . You're like picking up books that you

10:04

never in a million years would have read . You're

10:06

watching stuff on YouTube you never would have watched

10:08

. You're listening to podcasts you never would have listened to , because

10:11

you've got to like get the skills to

10:13

play this game and work

10:15

through levels of the game . And so you

10:17

evolve into a whole new person . And

10:19

so for me , 15

10:21

years of that like I didn't understand it at the time , but

10:23

I was like passively getting

10:25

a sense of fulfillment by that because I liked

10:27

it , until that plateaued

10:30

and it wasn't . It

10:32

wasn't as if I had conquered the world or anything

10:34

, but in my little world of Nashville , tennessee

10:37

and the landscaping business , I I

10:39

kind of reached close to the mountaintop and

10:42

and now the next step of the journey

10:44

was going to be something like opening

10:46

a branch in Atlanta or or

10:48

Memphis or Chattanooga or a nearby city , and I

10:50

didn't really have the appetite to do that , and so I went

10:52

through this two year

10:54

, maybe three year , like sideways

10:57

part of the business that I just

10:59

hated . I just didn't like the fact that that

11:01

I wasn't growing , I wasn't learning , I wasn't

11:04

evolving , I wasn't prospering in that way . I

11:06

was making money but all the other stuff wasn't

11:08

, wasn't growing and

11:10

and that like weighed on me until this hit

11:12

me one day . I was like I was like I'm just going to sell

11:14

this company and from

11:17

the moment like I had that , that that

11:19

thought to the day I was able to get the business acquired

11:22

was over two years , because

11:25

, because I didn't

11:27

have an exit plan in place . There's a great book

11:29

called Built to Sell that

11:31

walks you through a

11:33

strategy on how to build all the systems

11:35

and processes and get your business ready for sell . I

11:37

didn't have any of that . It was basically like me

11:40

, with 150 people and

11:43

organized chaos every day , and so I

11:45

had to take the business down to the studs

11:47

. I mean , yeah , we had some systems and processes

11:49

, but nothing like what an acquirer

11:52

was going to want , and

11:54

so I had to take the business down to the studs and really rebuild

11:56

it from the inside out to get it ready to sell

11:58

even as much as like moving

12:01

the location of the company 60 miles

12:03

to be closer to

12:05

the nucleus of middle Tennessee . And

12:08

it was weird like going

12:11

through all that , almost fell in love with it all over again

12:13

because that was challenging and

12:15

we made it more streamlined , easier

12:17

to run , more profitable and so on . But

12:21

that was how I experienced it . So

12:23

you know anybody listen to this that

12:25

wants to sell their company . You

12:28

need to . The way you're going to run your business

12:30

to sell it eventually is very

12:33

different than how you're probably

12:35

running your business right now and

12:37

you need to think that through . You need to maybe

12:40

work with a broker to help you develop

12:42

that plan and execute against the game plan

12:44

, because it'll make life a lot easier and

12:46

it'll make your outcome a lot better .

12:51

I don't know a ton about the landscape space

12:53

but I'm learning a lot . My 18

12:55

year old son has kind of branched off from

12:57

working for me to kind of start his own business

12:59

and landscaping Awesome , that's great . And

13:02

so I'm learning like there's

13:04

a whole , it's a wild out

13:06

there . You know there's guys who will

13:09

still mow lawns for 20 bucks and

13:11

you're like , how do you even pay for gas , right

13:13

? So there's a lot of competition in the market . There's

13:15

under the table guys , there's legit businesses

13:18

there's , you know . So he gets a lot of

13:20

referrals still from larger landscapers

13:22

who are not interested in doing the residential

13:24

mows anymore because it's not as profitable . They're looking to do

13:26

hardscapes , commercial work . You know all

13:28

these other things may be drainage and

13:30

so it's interesting to see . But

13:33

so GreenPow in and of

13:35

itself , I mean you're solving the problem of bringing

13:37

providers and , you

13:40

know , people who need lawn

13:42

care together . Like

13:44

this is the problem that you're solving

13:46

. So how do you bring both

13:48

sides of that to that ? Like I can think about marketing

13:51

to homeowners that need their lawn mode

13:53

, or , but

13:56

it's two different things . How do you bring

13:58

in both the providers and the clients who need their

14:00

service ?

14:01

Yeah , it's a marketplace with a chicken

14:03

and an egg problem and

14:05

you have to solve for

14:08

both sets of problems at the

14:10

same time . And

14:12

you know every marketplace faces

14:14

this challenge . It doesn't matter if you're trying

14:16

to get on Airbnb and you're trying to book a cottage

14:19

in Billings Montana . You

14:21

know you as the customer , they better have

14:23

that inventory ready for you

14:25

, and so they have to solve that problem as well

14:27

as getting you on the platform . And so we have the same

14:29

problem . And every

14:32

city has to be built from the ground up with

14:34

service providers and consumers . Now

14:36

, in most every marketplace

14:39

, like ours , the

14:42

demand side , meaning the

14:44

person spending the money , is usually the harder

14:46

one to acquire . The one that's making

14:49

money is usually a little easier

14:51

to acquire . But in the early days

14:53

, when we had nothing , it

14:55

was very much a hand crank , manual

14:57

process the first thousand

14:59

lawn care services now today we have 32,000

15:02

, but the first thousand all had my

15:04

cell number and , like

15:06

I , personally onboarded all of

15:08

them , and one of the things that we did

15:10

to kind of get over that cold start problem

15:13

was I would say hey

15:15

, listen , I've got this platform . Greenpowell , this is

15:17

the vision , this is where we're trying to go Right

15:19

now it totally sucks . We don't have the features

15:21

that you need , but we

15:23

need you to quote and we need

15:25

for you to show up and mow the yard when you get

15:27

hired . That's all we need and like . For that

15:30

I will give you free coaching

15:32

on how to grow a lawnmowing business , because

15:34

I know a little bit about that , and

15:36

so I did that . For the first several hundred

15:38

Is a way to like hand

15:41

crank the supply side . And

15:43

then we focused on the demand side , which

15:45

is homeowners or consumers , and

15:47

how do we market to them ? How do we draw

15:49

them to the platform at a local level

15:51

and be where they're looking when

15:54

they're trying to solve this problem in

15:56

their life ? And just by hand

15:59

cranking the supply side and then getting

16:01

some little bit of momentum or flywheel

16:03

on the demand side . We got it to

16:05

work in one city , nashville , and

16:08

not even Nashville like the suburbs around

16:10

Nashville , and then we developed a

16:12

little bit of a playbook about how to roll

16:14

it out into like Atlanta was our second market

16:16

, tampa , florida was our third , and so on , and

16:18

now we're nationwide in every city of the United

16:20

States . But that took a decade , took 10

16:23

years to do that . Figure that out and

16:25

grow that . So

16:31

it is hard because it's

16:33

like going to Airbnb and wanting to book a place

16:36

and there's nothing there . If you show up

16:38

to get your lawnmower , you don't get any free quotes

16:40

in a minute that you hear out of there and bad

16:42

review in the app store , and so it's

16:44

a challenging problem in a business like ours , but we

16:47

have to . The way we did it is

16:49

we solved for the supply side . We

16:52

made their life literally a

16:54

little bit better in terms of easier to

16:56

get business , easier to get paid , easier to keep everything

16:58

organized , easier to manage your route

17:01

. And so they're like yeah , I'm just gonna list my

17:03

services here , so then they could kind of be ordered

17:05

off the shelf , so to speak , ordering

17:07

something on Amazon . And that

17:09

was , I think , what we got right . Where

17:12

a lot of other platforms got

17:14

it wrong , they thought that server

17:17

providers in this industry were kind of like Uber drivers

17:19

. They were like fungible commodities

17:21

where you don't really care who picks you

17:23

up to take you to the airport , but

17:25

you do care that you want the same server provider

17:28

every week on your property . And so we were able

17:30

to kind of get that right , and it might've been because of my experience

17:32

in the industry , but that's how we solved

17:34

. It Took a long time , a lot of trial and error and

17:36

a lot of pushing on a string

17:38

for a long time .

17:41

Is there a mechanism for I'm

17:43

thinking about the other problem that you experienced when you

17:45

were running the landscaping business if

17:48

you would refer out to other landscaping businesses

17:51

and then they wouldn't show up , so they'd call you anyways

17:53

. Right ? So does

17:55

the platform also solve that problem ? And

17:58

that there's a review or rating system or

18:00

some type of structure to

18:03

verify the credibility of a

18:05

provider ?

18:06

That's really why we exist . You know and

18:09

that was one thing that also caught me off guard when

18:12

we started the business , I built and sold a landscaping

18:14

business . I didn't want to get back

18:17

in the landscaping business and

18:19

I wanted to build a tech company . And

18:22

so you know , first , six months in the

18:24

building this tech business , you're

18:26

writing code , launching shipping software

18:29

. And then it

18:31

weighed on me , I think somebody like called in , like

18:33

complaining that somebody let their dog

18:35

out because they didn't close the

18:37

fence gate or something . And then it weighed on me , it hit

18:39

me . It's like all the

18:41

things that makes that that suck

18:43

about hiring a lawn care service are now my

18:45

problem . Like I have to solve every one of them

18:47

. Like that's why we exist . It doesn't

18:49

matter how good our code is , how well our technology

18:52

works , how beautiful the design

18:54

is of the application . All that matters

18:57

is did the lawn get

18:59

mowed on the day it was supposed to ? And did it

19:01

get done perfectly ? And and

19:03

it didn't just work , and , and and

19:06

we own that end to

19:08

end , and , and . So to

19:10

your question yeah , like that's what we've

19:12

spent a long time trying to solve

19:14

is all the million things that can go

19:16

wrong between you've got grass that's

19:18

three feet tall and

19:21

and a beautifully manicured lawn . All

19:23

of the things that can go wrong between those two points

19:25

are now our problem we have to solve . So

19:27

how do we do it ? Um

19:30

, you know , the first thing is , is we ? We we

19:32

do some vetting on the front end to make sure we're getting good contractors

19:35

on on the platform , but that you know

19:37

that that that's weeds out like the lowest

19:39

common denominator contractors

19:41

. We then have to rigorously score

19:44

them in terms of , like , how

19:47

often do they show up on the day they're supposed

19:49

to ? That's a big one . Uh

19:51

, when we first started , we thought we were trying to deliver

19:54

a cheaper alternative to getting this chore

19:56

done , and what we learned was

19:58

that actually no , the price didn't matter . The

20:01

problem we really are solving is the

20:03

case of the disappearing lawn guy

20:05

who doesn't show up on Thursday

20:08

when he's supposed to . And , like , now you got to wrangle

20:10

him . Hey , where are you at ? Are you coming out

20:12

? Yeah , I'll be there tomorrow . And he didn't show up

20:14

tomorrow . Are you coming out ? Well , no

20:16

, my equipment broke . It's like that's

20:19

the problem we're solving , and so so

20:21

we so , with the rigorously score

20:24

these service providers on our reliability

20:26

of rating , on how often do they show

20:28

up on the day they're supposed to , and

20:31

, and then promote and demote

20:33

them based on that . And then also

20:35

other signals , your traditional

20:38

star rating you know , we all know how to use

20:40

a one through five star rating . We

20:42

have that . Does that solve ? No , all problems ? No

20:44

, but it does let you know what people are saying

20:46

about their services . But other signals

20:49

that are that are much more important are

20:51

how often do they get booked

20:53

for a second , third and fourth moment ? Because

20:56

that's an indication of quality

20:58

and customer service and and

21:01

and the ability to , to

21:03

to run a good lawn mowing business . That's

21:06

a big signal that we're able to capture

21:08

because we're kind of facilitating this transaction

21:10

, whereas when you hire somebody off

21:12

of Facebook or Craigslist or Yelp or through

21:14

a family recommendation , you don't

21:16

really know . You're just taking a leap of faith . When

21:19

you come on the green power , you can see these , these

21:22

, these ratings , and then also

21:24

we kind of demote and expel

21:26

the service providers that don't ever

21:29

get rehired or

21:31

don't get rehired enough , you know , because

21:33

that's a big signal of if they're good or not . So

21:36

, so that's really the business we're in . Is

21:38

is is is enabling the consumer

21:41

to sidestep those bad experiences

21:43

and enabling them

21:45

to to just hire a reliable

21:47

contractor the first time

21:49

, without having to go through like

21:52

the gauntlet of trying to figure out who's good and not , you

21:54

know , through the manual process that most everybody

21:56

else has to go through .

21:58

So I'm trying to think this through from a couple

22:00

of different sides . One first , as a consumer . I

22:02

think , well , if my guys , if I'm , he's

22:04

scheduled for here for Thursday at two and

22:06

his equipment breaks down and I really needed done it Thursday

22:09

at two , is there a backup that

22:11

someone else can come in and cover that for him ? But

22:13

also , in landscaping you got weather , weather

22:16

happens all the time and you shouldn't be mowing in

22:18

a pouring rain because it's just going to make a mess , you

22:20

know . So there's other things like that in scheduling

22:22

. But then from the contractor side

22:24

, because I'm in the service industry myself , I

22:27

think is there a way to create clients

22:29

as well ? Maybe I don't want

22:31

to rebook with that client

22:33

again and that's why I didn't get rehired

22:35

.

22:36

So how does that all ?

22:37

work together .

22:38

Yeah , it's a great question so

22:42

. So accommodating for things like weather is important

22:44

because we have to

22:46

have like a flexible system that accommodates for that

22:48

. But it's rare that

22:50

weather like kills a whole day , but

22:52

sometimes sometimes it does . We do bring

22:55

in a weather activity into our

22:57

system and automatically reschedule things

22:59

based on weather . That catches about maybe 30

23:01

, 40% of use cases . It

23:03

really is up to the contractor to protect

23:06

their ratings and

23:08

because if they have high ratings they get hired more

23:10

and make more money on the platform . So all of

23:12

the incentives are aligned . So say

23:15

, okay , I've got 10 yards to do on Thursday

23:17

and it's supposed to rain Thursday , I

23:19

better go in and reschedule them on the system

23:21

Wednesday afternoon . So my home , so

23:23

my clients know when I'm going

23:25

to be able to get there , rather than rather than just not showing

23:28

up . If they don't show up

23:30

, they get killed on their ratings and so , and

23:32

when the ratings go down , it's harder for them to get hired

23:34

for more work . And so trying

23:36

to build

23:39

this feedback loop so good

23:41

contractors get promoted and

23:43

the non-reliable contractors get

23:46

demoted and sometimes expelled , is how we

23:48

deal with that . Sometimes

23:51

, if it really good contractors , which we have

23:53

several that are making over

23:55

a million dollars a year on the platform . We'll do

23:57

them a day early and say hey look , it's going

23:59

to rain Thursday and my green pile rating is really important , so

24:02

I'm going to show up Wednesday afternoon . So

24:04

that's how that's dealt with . Now

24:08

, the ability to

24:10

pitch hit where it's like

24:12

okay , this guy can't come Thursday , let's get you somebody

24:14

else real quick . The business doesn't

24:17

work that way , unlike

24:19

Uber drivers where they're riding around town

24:21

waiting for your call . There isn't like

24:23

lawn mowing guys riding around with a truck and trailer with $40,000

24:26

equipment to say hire

24:28

me so I can come over and do it . Now . It doesn't work that way

24:30

. It's very much a route-based business

24:32

. It's a portfolio of clients-based

24:34

business . It's like I know I'm going to have

24:37

this . I have 78 stops next

24:39

week . They're all organized

24:41

based on what part of town they're in

24:43

and they're all like ongoing

24:45

customers and so we're

24:48

built to reinforce

24:51

that . One-time cuts

24:53

we don't really service them . You

24:56

can use the system to try it one time

24:58

, but after the

25:00

first-time experience you need

25:02

to book an every week or every two-week cadence

25:05

and if you don't want to do that , then it's not

25:07

a good solution to your problem , because

25:09

contractors hate one-time cuts

25:11

. They're not going to do them . They lose money

25:13

. A lot of people don't know this by

25:16

the time the guy or gal comes up the mows your yard

25:18

. One time he or she lost money

25:20

on that stop Because they don't

25:23

know where it is , they don't know the nuances of the property

25:25

. They've had to clean up a lot of deferred

25:27

maintenance that the last

25:29

guy didn't do or you , as the homeowner , didn't

25:31

do . So it's a real pain for them , and so anytime

25:34

somebody's coming out doing a one-time mowing for you , it's

25:36

almost an audition in good faith

25:38

in which to earn your business

25:40

for the rest of the season , because you're going to need

25:42

it done anyway . So that's

25:44

the use case we solve for . So

25:47

if the guy can't show up , for whatever reason , I

25:49

mean really and truly , he should have

25:51

a backup plan . He should have somebody that can help him

25:53

through that , or he should emote you earlier

25:55

or something . So if he's just going to leave

25:58

you hanging , that's kind of a it's

26:00

kind of a jerk thing to do , and so if

26:03

that happens , you can just push a button higher

26:05

, somebody else who's then gonna

26:07

take care of you for the rest of the season . That's the way

26:09

the system works , which is really congruent

26:11

with the way the industry works . And

26:14

it goes back to we really solve

26:16

from the service provider first , because

26:19

we care about one thing how do we make them more money , how

26:22

do we drive more revenue to them with

26:25

less headache ? And

26:27

if we can solve for that , everything

26:29

else takes care of itself , because then they love to use

26:31

it . Then they're there , then homeowners can hire

26:33

them quickly . They show up on time , they do a great job

26:36

and so on , and so we solve

26:38

for that and almost nothing else matters

26:40

. And it irritates and

26:42

pisses off some consumers , but they're

26:44

not really our customer anyway . They're

26:47

not the person we're trying to serve anyway .

26:49

So to that point I love that idea of

26:51

creating something for the

26:54

consumer versus trying to make everybody

26:56

happy .

26:57

Right In this type

26:59

of space you'll never get anywhere doing

27:01

that and

27:03

every you know you're huge

27:06

like Uber has got a solution for

27:08

pretty much everybody . They didn't start off with that , they

27:11

were limousine cars , you know , and

27:14

you really do need to nail one

27:16

problem and solution

27:18

for one type of customer and

27:20

like really scale that before you start trying

27:23

to be all things to all people .

27:25

How do you weed out some of the clients that don't belong on

27:27

the platform ? Let's say , somebody goes out , does

27:29

the lawn . The person is just ridiculously

27:32

picky or they're never happy

27:34

. Because there are bad clients like that there

27:36

are . How do you weed those out ? Do they get rated at

27:38

all ? Do you they just take on a new provider

27:41

? Start burning people out ?

27:43

Yeah this is a really good question , because

27:45

if we let it just go

27:47

unchecked , you

27:50

would have somebody . Here's what happens

27:52

, because when we first started we didn't know , and

27:55

so what we would see

27:57

all the time is like a certain

28:00

subset of people that

28:02

would come on , get me free

28:04

quotes , let me hire somebody . They went

28:06

and did it . Okay , great , I'll

28:09

see you in seven weeks . They

28:12

come back seven weeks later . Get me free quotes . I

28:14

had a little ass guy . He knows I'm

28:16

gonna screw him , so he's not coming back . But here's five others

28:19

and I'll see you in another

28:21

seven weeks , and they would just come and

28:23

do one moe every seven

28:25

or eight weeks . And

28:28

so that was a lot of people , because

28:30

anytime you develop

28:33

this Uber-like beautiful

28:35

push a button , magic

28:37

happens solution , people will just

28:39

bang on that button and

28:42

they don't care . And so we

28:45

had to build in controls to limit

28:48

that type of behavior , because when

28:50

you allow that , like you

28:52

said , it burns out the contractor base and

28:55

then you get what's called negative network

28:57

effects . So in

29:00

our business we have positive network effects

29:02

. The more service providers that come on

29:04

, the more homeowners like it , the more

29:06

homeowners like it , the more service providers and so

29:08

on , and price goes down and efficiency goes up , and it's

29:10

just this beautiful network effect

29:12

. But when you allow behavior

29:14

like that , you get negative network effects , which

29:17

is like the flywheel running in reverse . It's

29:20

like well then , now vendors are pissed off , they abandoned

29:22

. Now there's no vendors , there's no free

29:24

quotes , there's no liquidity on the pricing

29:26

, and so then they abandoned . And it's like and

29:29

it doesn't take long for this

29:31

type of business to evaporate to zero

29:33

if you let that kind of stuff

29:35

go on . And in every marketplace

29:37

is kind of like this If

29:40

Airbnb allowed guests

29:44

or hosts to run out dirty places , it

29:46

wouldn't take long for that marketplace to evaporate

29:49

. So we

29:51

had that problem and the way we solved

29:53

it is you can only get free

29:55

quotes three times per year , no more

29:58

. And

30:00

if you can't find

30:02

somebody you like for the whole season

30:04

for with three

30:06

tries , then either you have really

30:08

bad luck or your

30:10

expectations or use case or

30:13

something about your situation

30:15

is not congruent with what our solution is . And

30:18

when that's the case , we have an off-boarding kind

30:21

of process . It's like hey , listen , we tried , there

30:25

aren't any contractors that can solve your problem . Here's

30:27

five other platforms like

30:30

Craigslist , thumbtack , angie's

30:32

List , home Advisor that you can try to

30:35

get this problem solved , but we can't solve it for you

30:37

. So we do have an off-boarding . Do

30:40

we have like a robust rating system

30:42

for homeowners ? No , because

30:44

if they can't

30:46

get somebody for the long haul and

30:48

I mean the whole season or like three or four

30:50

seasons we don't want this

30:52

situation where contractors

30:55

are like having to see the same

30:57

homeowners over and over and over again . It shouldn't work like

30:59

that . If that's happening , then we're

31:01

not solving the problem to begin with . So

31:04

that's kind of the way we look at it . That's the way we solve for it .

31:08

I'm curious about the process of

31:10

designing an app

31:12

or a platform like this , because there's , you

31:15

know , I think everybody has a good idea

31:17

Like that would make a great app , that would make a great

31:19

, you know , tech product . But there's

31:21

, I wouldn't even know where to

31:24

start . Can you share a little bit about

31:26

how you got

31:28

, you know , hitting the ground

31:30

running on that ?

31:32

Yeah . So I'll tell you , what doesn't work is

31:35

because we did it . We

31:38

started the business and none of us knew how to code

31:40

. None of us had never built a website before

31:42

. We didn't know anything about how to do any of this , and so we

31:44

just thought , well , we'll pay a development

31:46

agency , or what they call DevShop

31:48

, to build it , and then

31:51

we'll market it because we're really good hustlers

31:53

, and we'll be off and going . And

31:56

that was a total failure , like

31:58

it was just like dead on

32:00

arrival To

32:02

your point . Designing it . We

32:05

didn't know what the hell we were doing , and so we kind

32:08

of we gave them

32:10

the wrong instructions , almost , and they

32:12

built something that was barely hard to , barely able

32:15

to use as clunky buggy . It

32:17

didn't fulfill the vision of push a button , get free

32:19

quotes and hire somebody . And it

32:21

was wrong like on a thousand different levels . And

32:24

we were confronted with the reality

32:26

of if we're gonna

32:28

be in the tech business , we're gonna have to learn

32:30

how to build software . And so

32:32

I took every course online

32:35

, you know , every YouTube course

32:37

, every online course . My

32:39

co-founder went to a software bootcamp which

32:42

was like full-time . He spent his last

32:44

$8,000 for tuition to this thing

32:46

and at the

32:48

end of it , nine months later , we knew enough

32:51

to be dangerous , to where we

32:53

could rebuild the whole thing , based

32:55

on the little bit of feedback that , like

32:57

, a handful of people were giving us and most of them

32:59

were friends and family . We were begging people

33:01

to use it , and so

33:03

that was one way that we kind of got

33:06

, not even like to level two

33:08

, like maybe to

33:11

like out of the dugout to the plate

33:13

, like that was a way to

33:15

get to the starting block . And

33:17

so then now we're at the starting block and now

33:19

we're rebuilding it . And so your question is like how

33:21

the hell do you even know what to build ? The

33:25

way we did it is I took

33:27

classes in product design . That helped a little

33:29

bit . But the thing that really helped was

33:32

I looked for other

33:35

platforms , apps

33:37

, websites that were similarly

33:39

situated . So Uber

33:42

, for example , airbnb , instacart

33:44

, doordash , postmates

33:46

, rover , which is

33:48

a dog walking thing , wag , which is a dog

33:51

walking thing , and

33:53

then maybe like 10 other ones , and

33:57

I signed up as a server

33:59

. I signed up to drive for Uber , like

34:01

I delivered groceries through Instacart

34:04

for weeks

34:06

and months . I delivered hamburgers

34:08

on DoorDash . I rented

34:10

out like a spare bedroom on Airbnb . I

34:13

walked dogs on Rover

34:15

and Wag . Both Did that

34:17

for like two years , not

34:20

as a way to make extra money but as

34:22

a way to learn , and

34:24

I would see , I would like

34:26

deconstruct how

34:28

they dealt with leaving

34:32

the dog outside with no

34:34

leash and like what happens if the dog gets away and

34:37

how they deal with I'm showing up late

34:39

to the appointment or I didn't show up at all . What

34:42

does the screen look like ? What does the email

34:44

look like ? What does the text message look like ? What is all

34:46

this stuff ? And I would like take millions of screenshots

34:49

and then I'll take it all back to the lab

34:51

and I would just like

34:53

deconstruct okay , this is the workflow

34:55

for how they get you from

34:58

like you don't even know what Wag is to

35:00

. Somebody walked your dog on Wag on

35:02

both sides of the transaction and that took like

35:04

months and years , but it was a way

35:06

to kind of hack my way through product design

35:09

and get it like . I

35:11

don't know if you can get a degree in product and mobile

35:13

app product design . Maybe you can , but I was able to get

35:15

one for free that way by deconstructing

35:18

what these other companies were doing for similar use

35:21

cases in different like adjacent

35:24

real world problems

35:26

and then apply them to

35:28

my humble little world of lawn mowing and

35:30

to build a product that worked . And

35:32

that's how we did it .

35:35

I want to emphasize the fact

35:37

and go right back to this and say

35:39

you did the work Like

35:41

you didn't just , oh , I'm gonna throw a million

35:44

dollars at this guy that developed this . I'm gonna throw two million

35:46

to have them kind of fix all the bugs . It was

35:48

like they gave us something . It didn't work . Now

35:50

I gotta go fix this thing . And you put in the time

35:52

and work . I mean , so

35:54

many people , even listening

35:56

right now , would say they

35:59

would hit that obstacle and go , ah shit

36:01

, I guess it's not gonna happen .

36:03

Yeah , it goes back to

36:08

make it as a entrepreneur

36:10

. It doesn't matter what you're doing , like the guy

36:12

or gal running the corner store is

36:15

not working any less harder than

36:17

I am . Like all business is hard , but

36:20

like I think it could be helpful if somebody would

36:23

describe you as an animal . Like oh

36:25

man , russ , he's an animal

36:27

. He's an I don't mean like a giraffe

36:29

, he's got a long neck or something

36:31

Like . I mean he's an animal Like

36:34

somebody should describe you

36:36

as that , because that's

36:38

what it's gonna take to like get from zero

36:40

to one . And

36:43

so for me I didn't really wanna

36:45

like throw all the money I made at the first

36:47

sale to this on the second problem . So GreenPowell

36:50

really kind of had to sing for its supper , so

36:52

it was very much like necessity as the mother

36:54

of invention kind of thing . We didn't have

36:56

any money . Yeah , we had a little bit of money , maybe

36:59

a couple hundred grand that we pulled together

37:01

amongst the three of

37:03

us and we pissed that away in the first

37:05

year . So it was like we really

37:07

, and if we had 20 million I would have wasted

37:09

all of that because we didn't know

37:11

what we're doing . And so the obstacles

37:14

are what keeps

37:16

you focused on your customer keeps

37:18

you focused on solving problems , the

37:20

hard way , learning about

37:23

what the solution is . Because if you try to throw

37:25

money at the problem , you know usually

37:27

you're just gonna burn the money up , unless

37:30

you've been around the block and done it a few times . Like

37:33

if I had to go back in time 10 years . I

37:35

probably would raise money and

37:38

do in like two years what took 10 . But

37:41

the first time around I didn't know Like even though I had already

37:43

built and sold an eight figure business . Building a tech

37:45

business was totally different . It was very much the

37:47

first swing at the plate for me again

37:50

. So that's what we had to do

37:52

to get from level two to three .

37:56

You know , I just wanna emphasize you gotta

37:58

do the work , that's what people need to

38:00

hear . You gotta do the work . You

38:02

just there's no substitute for that . I mean

38:04

, early on in the conversation you said you know

38:06

it was a 10 year overnight success

38:08

. I mean

38:10

.

38:11

Intensity is the strategy . That

38:13

needs to be like the mantra of any

38:16

business owner . Intensity is the strategy

38:18

. It's like it

38:20

almost doesn't matter which game

38:23

plan you put to work , so much

38:25

as you execute it vigorously and

38:27

you are all in because that's

38:29

what it's gonna take . Now listen , there's a lot of businesses

38:31

that are easier to run than others , but

38:34

most are really hard , especially if you're

38:36

inventing a brand new product that doesn't

38:39

exist . That is gonna be intense

38:41

for five or 10 years .

38:46

One of the things that we do , Brian

38:49

, is we do a lightning round with all our client , all

38:51

our guests , and we ask some questions , and

38:54

the first one I wanna ask you is what's

38:56

the one thing you'd wish you'd known before starting a business

38:58

, even at 12 , maybe back then

39:01

or maybe before this one ?

39:04

Yeah , you know it's weird . Building

39:07

my first business , I

39:09

literally went through this and I'm sure people

39:11

listening can relate . I

39:14

thought success was like

39:18

trucks on the road and

39:21

equipment and a

39:23

number of employees and

39:26

good looking uniforms

39:28

and great office

39:31

. That's

39:33

what I thought success was , and

39:35

so I would like index on these things . Rather

39:38

than profit and market share and happy customers , that's

39:42

really all that matters is like how much money are you making , how fast

39:44

are you growing , how happy are your customers ? That's

39:47

success . And but , like as business

39:49

owners , we can get sidetracked and

39:51

think that success is buying a new piece

39:53

of equipment , which , if

39:55

, as it relates to getting to those first three goals

39:58

, it is , but

40:00

not like just accumulating . Like

40:02

in the landscaping business , we

40:05

would like just getting iron , just getting

40:07

iron in the lot . Like you just wanted

40:09

more metal out there . And man , I know it

40:11

sounds crazy and stupid , but

40:13

I lived it . And you buy that new

40:15

truck not

40:17

because it's the best truck for

40:20

the application of what you're selling , because you need it . No

40:23

, because , like , you equate that bigger truck with

40:26

the bigger motor that is less efficient

40:28

on gas with success . So

40:31

that's a stupid thing that I've done . And

40:35

then in the second business , like

40:39

it was a very humbling thing . It

40:41

was like a back to the basics thing for

40:44

me , and it's like

40:46

nothing matters other than the problem

40:48

you're solving for your customers . Literally nothing

40:50

matters and nobody's

40:52

going to care about what you're working on other

40:54

than the customers that you're solving problems for . So

40:58

don't start the business . For all of these external things , these

41:01

extrinsic motivations where

41:03

it could be like the

41:06

entrepreneur lifestyle on social media

41:08

or something like that , none of that BS matters

41:10

. All that matters is the

41:12

problem you're solving for your customers and

41:14

really nothing else . And

41:17

so , like that was the second mistake I made . Like

41:19

I really wanted to prove to myself and the world that

41:21

I could be a tech entrepreneur and I

41:23

wasted like two years thinking that that mattered . It didn't

41:25

. So , yeah

41:27

, those are mistakes I've made . That you know . I

41:29

guess you got to learn the hard way .

41:31

What is your favorite way to market your business

41:34

?

41:35

For me , you know , the

41:37

favorite way is is a

41:39

product channel fit

41:42

, which is what is the product that you have

41:44

and what is the channel that is the

41:47

best for it . So if you have , like a

41:49

fashion brand , you know , I

41:52

mean Instagram , TikTok , obviously Google

41:54

search is probably not the

41:56

thing for you , but I've got a solution

41:58

where , if you have grass that's

42:00

four feet tall , you can get somebody to come mow it today

42:03

, and the best

42:05

channel for that is Google organic

42:08

search . Lawn mower near

42:10

me . Lawn mower Lincoln , Nebraska . Grass

42:12

cutting service Sefner , Florida . Like

42:15

, how do we make our property

42:18

pop up and be where

42:20

people are looking like when

42:23

they need it ? Done Like Google has built the greatest

42:25

business printing money

42:28

printing machine in the history of mankind , because

42:30

they have figured out a way to match

42:33

intent with the

42:35

answer , and so for us it's

42:38

the best

42:40

channel for our product , and so that's

42:43

my favorite today . Now , if I sold

42:45

this company , started a different one , you know that favorite

42:47

channel would change based on product

42:50

channel fit , and it takes a while to figure

42:52

that out . But once you figure it out , go

42:54

all in on one channel and

42:56

try to dominate it .

42:59

Now you've created a business platform , but

43:01

is there another business platform that might

43:03

have changed your life or influenced how you've kind

43:05

of developed this one ?

43:07

Yeah , you know , like I mentioned earlier

43:10

, trying to learn from

43:12

much bigger companies that

43:15

had raised tons of money

43:17

. We haven't raised anybody , we've self-funded this thing

43:19

, but I mean Uber raised several

43:22

billion dollars , airbnb a couple

43:24

billion dollars , and

43:27

trying to learn from what they were doing in

43:29

their space and apply it to my

43:31

little space was something that

43:33

I was very fortunate to have

43:35

access to . I mean , it was a way to

43:37

learn best practices , best

43:40

strategies , best user

43:42

interfaces for

43:44

free . So that was one thing

43:47

that I gathered

43:49

inspiration and just

43:51

tactical execution knowledge

43:53

from . It would be Airbnb

43:56

, uber , doordash , lyft

43:58

, rover , wag

44:00

, instacart all

44:02

of those companies because they solve a real problem

44:04

in the real world through a

44:06

screen , which is what I'm

44:08

trying to do , what I was trying to do and I'm

44:11

still doing for lawn mowing . And

44:13

you have to think , like before 2010 , that

44:15

wasn't a thing . Like

44:17

before 2010, . The screen

44:20

on your phone hell , you didn't

44:22

have a phone wasn't a thing . The screen on

44:24

your computer was very much atoms

44:27

. It was very much like digital Nothing

44:30

in the . You didn't push a button

44:32

and then something magical happened in the real

44:34

world . So those companies

44:36

really taught us that yeah , no , you

44:38

can . You can push a button

44:40

and real problems in your life

44:42

just get solved magically , like what a

44:44

time to be alive , what a time to be an entrepreneur

44:46

.

44:48

You also mentioned a couple of books already , but aside

44:52

from those that you mentioned , is there another business

44:54

book that you would tell

44:56

everyone they need to read ?

44:58

Yeah , a

45:01

guy that I like , naval

45:04

Ramicott , says that I would rather just

45:07

read the same five books over and over again than read

45:09

all the books . And so , while

45:11

I'm not , I'm nowhere near as smart as that dude

45:14

, but I kind of try to do that and

45:16

I try to just read the same stuff over again

45:18

. So Seven Habits of Highly Effective People was more

45:21

of a personal development book , but it's a lot

45:23

of stuff does relate to people , I mean to

45:25

business and people building

45:27

a business . And then a

45:29

classic is the E-Meth by Michael Gerber , and

45:31

that is such a simple book but

45:33

it really . Even though I'm running a multi

45:37

eight figure business , the lessons from that

45:39

book apply to what I'm doing just around building

45:41

an org chart and systems and processes and

45:43

roles and goals for all of

45:45

our people . It's so easy to lose sight of

45:48

. You know this rut

45:51

we get in as business owners where we might

45:53

have 10 employees but it's 10 people doing all the same

45:55

stuff . There's no specialization , there's no

45:57

roles and goals . Nobody knows what success

45:59

looks like . We hate the business , we

46:02

hate the smell of fresh baked pies and

46:04

we got into this business because we like fresh baked

46:06

pies . But now we hate pies and we hate

46:08

this bakery that we opened , like that's what the book's about

46:11

. Every single

46:13

business owner goes through that story

46:15

, and I've lived it , and so that's my favorite

46:17

small business book . Great

46:20

, now I want pie .

46:25

All right . Now , given your experience and some of the things

46:27

you've already told us , and all the things you've been through and

46:29

accomplished , I'm wondering I'm interested in the answer

46:31

to this one , that's when did you feel

46:33

like you made it ? You

46:35

?

46:35

know it's

46:38

a very much a dynamic thing . When

46:41

I was mowing yards

46:43

19 , 20 , 21

46:45

years old my

46:47

big thing at that point in my life was

46:50

if I could just live in this neighborhood

46:52

I'm mowing yards in . So

46:57

back then I was going after

46:59

the wealthy clientele in

47:02

my little town . So

47:04

this is where all the doctors lived , the small

47:06

business owners , the insurance agency

47:09

owners , the surgeons

47:11

and so on and so forth . If I could just

47:14

live in this neighborhood then

47:16

I will have made it . And

47:19

so I ended up being able to get there by 29

47:22

years old . So here I am , 29 years old . The

47:24

landscaper builds

47:27

a multi-million dollar house

47:29

in the best

47:31

neighborhood in town , and

47:34

that was cool and fun for like six

47:36

months and I thought I

47:38

had made it for like maybe a week . And

47:41

then I thought , man , there's so much maintenance on this thing

47:43

and I hate this thing and like my neighbors don't

47:46

like me because you know I'm like they're

47:48

old and I'm young and I'm having parties

47:51

and stuff , and it just wasn't what I thought it was going to be

47:53

. And so I thought I had made it

47:55

for like a week and then I realized

47:57

that there was way more to the game than

47:59

that and I thought , man

48:02

, you know , if I can just build something

48:04

with bigger impact , that would be a lot of fun . And

48:06

so that's kind of what started me off building

48:09

GreenPow . And now , 10

48:11

, 12 years , there's been moments of quote

48:13

made it . You know , I had a moment where

48:16

I felt like I made it in our second year when

48:20

30 people signed up on a

48:22

Saturday and I didn't know who any of

48:24

them were . That was a big

48:27

moment and I felt like I had made it

48:29

in some small way . You know , even

48:31

though , like today , thousands of people sign up every

48:33

day , it was 20 or 30 people and I didn't

48:35

know a name . I didn't know one single name because

48:38

to me that indicated that I

48:40

didn't have to like hand

48:42

to hand combat , like

48:44

ground and pound sell on this

48:46

thing anymore , Like I could figure out a way to

48:50

scale some sort of customer acquisition

48:52

. So that was a moment . But

48:55

, man , I feel like the made it thing is

48:57

like there's moments and it's always

48:59

day one , but that's kind

49:01

of what makes it fun and that's why you're always drawn back

49:03

to it , you know , and I think the day

49:05

and the day that you quit trying to like grow

49:08

is the day you start dying . So

49:11

but if you're not careful it can be a hamster wheel . So

49:13

I'm cognitive fat also .

49:15

And what do they say ? The grass is always greener

49:17

on the other side of the fence until you've got a bottle

49:19

of lawn Right .

49:24

And then use green pile . That's the case . Well

49:26

, that's just it .

49:27

So , brian , I want to thank you for being here . Where

49:29

can people , where's the one best place that people

49:31

can find you , connect with you , learn more about you

49:33

and and green ?

49:34

pal . Yeah , greenpalcom . No

49:37

, don't know your own yard . Life's too short . Anybody

49:39

wants to hit me up on on social Instagram

49:41

is the best place . Brian and Clayton

49:43

just dropped me a DM there .

49:46

Awesome , and we're going to have all of those things listening in our show

49:48

notes and where they can connect . So go ahead

49:50

, find it there , click , learn more

49:52

about Brian Clayton and Green

49:54

Pal and all the things that you know

49:57

. Be inspired . I'm inspired . It was a great conversation

49:59

. I just want to thank you for being here , taking time . I

50:01

want to thank our listeners for being here

50:03

and sharing this time with us , and I know you

50:05

got something out of it . So take and like and

50:07

share this with somebody you know that needs to

50:09

hear the message that was shared today . And

50:12

remember it's not personal , it's just

50:14

business .