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details. Welcome to

0:31

this special episode of Jimmy's Jobs of

0:33

the Future. It was recorded in front

0:35

of a live audience. The

0:38

guests were Harry Cole, the political

0:40

editor of The Sun, and James

0:42

Heale, the political correspondent of The

0:44

Spectator. They are perhaps

0:46

most famous for having written the book

0:49

Liz Truss, Out of the Blue. It

0:52

became so wildly popular that it

0:54

became a meme in the year

0:56

she became prime minister. We

0:59

spoke to them all about what it was like writing

1:01

the book, and how the

1:03

job of being a political journalist

1:06

is changing in such a fast-moving

1:08

environment. Politics

1:10

and business at times can be

1:13

very serious. The whole

1:15

point of these evenings is that they are due

1:17

to be a bit more light-hearted. We kick off

1:19

with a bit of comedy from yours truly at

1:22

the beginning, but it's also

1:24

mixed in with some searing insight into

1:26

how our politics and media is changing.

1:28

If you're interested

1:30

in coming to future live events,

1:32

then make sure you sign up

1:35

to our substack, which is in

1:37

the show notes below. That will

1:39

be where we release information

1:41

first. Thank

1:45

you very much.

1:48

Popular culture since the start of the

1:50

year has collided with politics on

1:52

a scale as we've seen with Mr

1:55

Bates versus the post office. And

1:57

of course, Hall of Ennals has had

1:59

to give back. her CBE. And it

2:02

made me think, what's

2:04

the actual process for that? Do the

2:06

beef eaters march around from Buckingham Palace

2:08

or does she have to go and

2:10

pop it through the letterbox? Or does

2:13

she have to go to the

2:15

post office? Would

2:20

you like that in short? Is it fragile? That'll be £252

2:22

please. Just

2:28

so the computer says you are the only

2:30

one. It

2:38

gives me great pleasure to welcome two people

2:40

to the stage who probably aren't gonna have

2:42

to worry about handing back their CBE's anytime

2:45

suit. Harry Cole and James

2:47

Hill. Thank

2:50

you Jimmy. Jimmy

2:52

that was genuinely funny. Harry

2:58

very kindly retweeted my stand put

3:00

out earlier in the year. So many

3:02

thousands of people because you're so big

3:05

on Twitter. But anyway, nothing about me.

3:07

What I want to know about Mr.

3:09

Fogg. And I've been dying to Ashlee's

3:11

and I haven't seen either of you

3:13

recently. Who approached you about

3:15

the book? Your star and

3:17

when were you approached and

3:20

what was happening in Tory politics at the time? James

3:23

is gonna tell the outrageous allegation that I

3:25

was drunk. But

3:30

it was a quite literal approach. I

3:33

was at the Cheyenne and Twinnett popular

3:35

watering hole in Westminster, Victoria. And

3:37

you came over after a couple of bottles

3:39

and you said, let's write the

3:42

book, let's write the book. We always discussed

3:44

doing a book at the man on Sunday

3:46

and then the pandemic intervened. But

3:49

we were here starting at the time that he said, this

3:51

is August 2022. This

3:53

trust is clearly gonna win the leadership race. Two

3:55

weeks to go. Let's write the book. And I

3:57

think August 15th, we started it. And I

4:00

think we sort of signed the contract five days

4:02

later and we wrote it in six five days later

4:04

she was out of power and we filed a book that

4:06

day. It was,

4:08

I mean, it was sort of takes a person says, Oh God,

4:10

you have to rewrite it. We didn't really, we

4:12

changed a few sentences, but it was more, it

4:16

was more just, we just kept going and

4:19

HarperCollins were absolutely amazing. When that's, they led

4:21

us basically. Um, they

4:24

let us just kind of, they turned it around so quickly.

4:26

It was sort of editing bits of it as it was

4:28

going along. Um, but they

4:30

just kept pushing and pushing and pushing the deadline

4:32

back. And then there's that sort of

4:34

crucial tipping moment of thinking, you know,

4:38

the worst case scenario, I think would have been if

4:40

she is sort of survived long enough for the book

4:42

to come out. And then while it

4:44

was literally the printers resigned or, but in

4:47

the end, it

4:50

was, you know, we were always wondering where to end it. We

4:52

were going to end it at the party conferences. Yes. We

4:54

added 10 more days onto it. And that

4:57

was that. I think the very, very last day physically

4:59

where we could have got it done would be October

5:01

31st. So she gave us a

5:03

week to go, uh, she left office and, um, then when

5:05

I should get over the line, she filed it on the

5:07

day then. Yeah. The last day. And I think actually the

5:09

best bit was obviously, uh, four days

5:12

previously. Cause she resigns on the Thursday and then

5:14

she goes on the Tuesday. On the Thursday we

5:16

met with the publicist. Yeah. We were literally in

5:18

a pub talking about the, you know, the book

5:21

media plan for the book, and I was thinking,

5:24

oh, it's just, it's looking bad, but you know, it

5:26

was, this was about one o'clock and, and it was

5:28

a sort of one of those moments when we

5:30

sort of look up at the telly on in the pub and went, uh,

5:35

finish it Guinness again. That

5:38

speed of that day was insane. And did you,

5:41

when did you think, oh God, is

5:43

it screwed? And then thinking, cause it ended

5:45

up winning Sunday times political book of the

5:48

year and it is superb read. I mean,

5:50

it could be called how to climb the

5:52

greasy pole, right? Like it's extraordinary kind of

5:54

those years in Westminster. So when

5:56

did you think, oh, actually we're going to benefit from this, the

5:58

fact that it's all coming to an ending. Be quickly.

6:01

I think there was. A. Member

6:03

James getting a bit i was a lie,

6:05

was quite amused by. By. You want

6:07

to your political or to the sub gases

6:09

are able to do with put out immediately

6:11

put out a way that the book was

6:14

coming out and of as of atlases and

6:16

we can argue about the word extraordinary where

6:18

he was next to the Rise to power

6:20

I'm at as about with that the original

6:22

title out which then about two weeks later

6:24

that we started to think most. This.

6:26

Is with the contagious of a taser some

6:28

subset of the title and they release day

6:31

on that amazon as others are. Doubling.

6:33

Piss taking threatened that on twitter of which

6:35

are days when I miss a now that

6:38

you again by night about an hour to

6:40

this is five Is it going to aka

6:42

telling myself as it can be five bedroom

6:44

he talks about the not We took that

6:46

as good natural Bosnia luckiest Armistead of a

6:48

Pm case. Ah. I've. Literally.

6:52

I think what would he say that as a bit

6:54

as but that a book about the primacy of an

6:56

account with promises out by Christmas and also thus the

6:58

Prime Minister or the book. I. Saw

7:00

saw my is obvious play the piano

7:03

like that. that. The

7:06

only bit of the week where anyone actually

7:08

what is this is an already that. The.

7:11

First question: the validity of illusion is really

7:13

the most watch moment in British politics of

7:15

the week. And. I hated it.

7:17

So he side of other friends and determined that a

7:19

free basically I. Think

7:22

that's your stories, You ambushed him at the lobby,

7:24

dragged off amazon or in an apartment I ran

7:26

as not sell fate of a lot of Amazon

7:28

or how do you feel becoming a bad? The

7:31

main gates like it because it was older. People.

7:34

sending round pictures sort of the a fifty percent

7:36

off seventy percent on the as of take it

7:38

to say on a surface the best was at

7:40

the mean muslim linked in which is like having

7:42

a bad day at work. Additional article

7:45

or james he allowed what makes that makes

7:47

no Got Californian speaker made as an entire

7:49

like. Putting. A lot of is the

7:51

as that could be worse yet when it rains a

7:53

dead. But listen of these. And

7:58

Ago says thirty thousand times. And

8:00

my baby's father. Ah we're sending it to

8:02

me as I my colleagues sending me this

8:04

what is this mean saying. Ah,

8:06

My system again later joked about a

8:09

university was as all. And.

8:11

Yeah and I had like Ellen the day that she

8:13

went. add them to Spiegel trying to touch and every

8:16

sub six I'm accent they were like. You.

8:18

Are an international laughingstock. How does that

8:20

feel less about voters are not very

8:22

very dead hands around and. Okay,

8:26

mama germans it as a. Kid

8:30

I've I've been levels of research

8:32

on your direct question is James

8:34

of success that. I'm

8:39

was so never. I mean you got things

8:42

like her graduate results from Charlotte so up

8:44

my hand you go about putting a book

8:46

together. lie back in back time. Will

8:48

I think the first? Penis. As twenty thousand

8:50

what's really ears this the twenty to forty thousand.with

8:52

the car hop a we kind of at plotted

8:54

alex of glorify wikipedia page and need brushing them

8:56

people dark and stuff with the middle they trying

8:58

to fill and as come years when not much

9:00

arena bods a lot been written about her. Or.

9:03

The young age it leads growing up there. And

9:05

then lobbying run about how can a post twenty nineteen when

9:07

she became a D player in the party but this guy

9:10

middle us to each want to go run the selections and

9:12

stuff. And. They want ange things

9:14

were looking at us elections so in the

9:16

late twenty ten celtics are late two thousand

9:18

and as Jozy was most a high profile

9:20

selection battle and her kind of going around

9:22

different country analytic front constituencies local newspaper archives

9:25

were a great student newspaper off as as

9:27

well with oh my god yeah right and

9:29

air at James objects and I were first

9:31

met James of my male both of them

9:33

amazon day and he was a priest was

9:35

E Bay I'd write very good use yes

9:38

to graduate who am we would basically gets

9:40

do. Or. The recession stories and make

9:42

outcome in Iran as headline him and right right

9:44

to nice, tidy and so on and but days

9:46

at his inability to find random shit. About

9:50

people from and up positions especially

9:52

is. You. Don't get to

9:54

be in the cabinet associate unless you

9:56

been a widower. Universities: I. Say.

10:00

Anything about the thing about soon as

10:02

you know oxygen the ha ha. the

10:04

nineties u cel these Edinburgh they all

10:07

have really really lady lady gets you

10:09

newspapers, bow and arrow archives, And

10:11

so the couple days at the Oxford, the other you did.

10:13

And then. U. Cel and and at at

10:15

it's just that is this it was is all

10:17

they're just that the just ivs amount of just

10:19

getting sore and that's where James's skill said particular

10:22

the patience than to get rid of some. Of.

10:24

The. Other thing was them these days. I mean

10:26

besides transcribed and an arm and there are some

10:28

Harrys unseat him overcome the glasses. And.

10:31

Say I had these lists. You have headphones, Pressed.

10:33

My air trying to transcribe it. And.

10:36

From the summer later conversations you sometimes gulf on

10:38

tangents arm and the took a bus she's get

10:40

your is what bread sticks to his office. With

10:43

as we made it into a quote editor

10:46

of really require them as I did little

10:48

wet weather to gonna bread stick to the

10:50

away I on the spot was an interview

10:52

never that was it with the way to

10:55

the speed we worked there as well and

10:57

we did of comfort be I got completing

10:59

a tube abraham that what what very complimentary

11:01

skillset spot. There. Was a time

11:03

consistent speed at which we had his

11:05

have done especially the free. I'm

11:07

the sort of three twenty nineteen trust up

11:10

at Middlesex in the day jokes about a

11:12

token been with it. And we

11:14

used author basically the i would literally be.

11:17

In. A bar in. Mayfair.

11:20

Talking to a contact. And.

11:22

James have been almost sort of transcribing

11:24

it. As. The conversation happened. And

11:26

pull him stuff out and it's. Remarkable way we

11:28

did we did a lot of into the is. Ah,

11:31

That. Would be would dead. If we

11:34

can not having things I also know that for that will

11:36

take a month to month on out. What was extraordinary I

11:38

took his well was doing eight. August.

11:40

And the kind of hubris, the confidence of many

11:42

people around this process, can be great, been at

11:44

all these things that he's and. Loses.

11:46

Like David Cameron, I'm been able to data to

11:49

scared accept track and I'm watching that kind of

11:51

trot transform and eight weeks. Into

11:53

been of October and just ashen faced people

11:55

talking to us is all Southpaw was was

11:57

incredible to watch. watching her as well into.

12:00

We did states three it to do interviews

12:02

with with trust herself and on one and

12:04

one very much on the out. At.

12:07

Evening: Where Am. I

12:10

this is a gamma changes as I could

12:12

be acknowledged it was hilarious because she basically

12:14

stopped officers at you know my life better

12:16

than I do. the statue never see was

12:18

picking her up on dates a thing that

12:20

happened yet perspectives to the point of got

12:22

bit weird is as. A

12:24

as an idea of I have to admit I

12:26

did reject on that the the under the bus

12:28

at us to buffalo average of and vex there

12:30

was a cup of tea details that we did

12:33

kind of wanted to the name and. Think.

12:35

I have a level results. I'm when

12:37

she first I dug her blonde. The

12:39

like ah that is the only one

12:42

as I conversation with anyone. And

12:45

so is your the great. What we do is it

12:47

to be there with. You I'd be.

12:50

Delivered. To the and at the end still

12:52

couple of said problem in a ones that are going

12:54

to be all couldn't so it's sort of kind of

12:56

forgot and then like james I see of a few

12:58

more questions to ask. Nine. Point

13:01

Seven its advantages was of machine guns

13:03

over these. Last

13:06

of us and other why did Because the.

13:09

Rollout, James that other question and the Prime

13:11

Minister direct of com the them as I

13:14

really watch Another success as a semester Wednesday

13:16

dial have launched a half of us are.

13:19

Surely. Holding power to accounts I'm it's can

13:21

you just hold the mice Makes ice tea

13:23

with sorry And so I had said. Older

13:25

produces okay, that's crazy and or how was

13:28

the. Tension. I mean you,

13:30

you teachers on Saudi that you're not competitors

13:32

know, we see why. breasts in some cases,

13:34

but more like when you're in those archives

13:36

and so on. The. I'm a

13:38

use of.editor The Spectator like.

13:41

How much you have put on a whole bad for

13:43

the book and think of it will be such a

13:45

video diary story at this particular by Ms. Well how

13:47

to manage that tension or I think that a very

13:49

supportive editor and know the team is but I would

13:51

bring him one of his last thing I think they

13:53

can access. And have us me

13:56

promise Best know much about her and

13:58

say something along the town approach. But

14:00

I think the know by writing there's like different audiences

14:03

and the have been to and points are a rare

14:05

in i work with Harry when that as an else

14:07

and they said I was a graduate adding on the

14:09

day when you started I started to is awesome Me

14:11

I try to take about the building or completely lost

14:13

a lot you know they were going. On

14:16

but yeah so I think we know some stuff. I

14:18

didn't report it for hand but are they often talking

14:20

to people they wanted us to was told in the

14:22

book they like. this is of the book is posterity

14:25

and that was kind of advocate it's take what they

14:27

would slap I still got do with us on the

14:29

now i. Mean I'm going to beta couple weeks off

14:31

with as that. this five dollars have

14:33

a very well as reclaimed the tesla because

14:36

of the queen and a big for if

14:38

if i hadn't happened in a strange way

14:40

or the we would have of have vanished

14:42

because politics to stop for ten days. I'm.

14:44

Around I wrote him kicked in and took. I

14:47

was allowed me to basically left maybe ten days

14:49

during a browser day. I'm. On. The

14:51

paper and and the rest miss you to have

14:53

a twenty two hours of the day on the

14:55

on the book Amsterdam Abbott And but as the

14:57

sort of terms I was able to rhizomes let.

15:00

It if this is the sort of but that

15:02

we beat be would be a bit balibar

15:04

civilization for doing in house is I like I

15:06

should have backloaded and and months months the

15:08

book came out we did We ever may be

15:11

subsidized it but in that within within the

15:13

Uk family the time Sunday Times in the M.

15:16

And some of when did you think

15:18

so you're watching this incredible kind of

15:20

like Rise of the Trust and Proceeds.

15:22

When did you think. This

15:24

is Not gonna. Lie.

15:27

I. Think I'm a crash. I think it was me as

15:30

they went via the deaf. the many budget. And.

15:32

It was his the Friday with the many

15:34

budget Saturday when and saw her and she

15:37

was just completely oblivious to how had landed.

15:39

And that's writing the Weinstein such a gap which

15:41

we were sitting the college the outside. Does.

15:43

Used to it's evening was a lawyer because he

15:46

that is assuming what amazon and madame said his

15:48

privacy as my missus still using. Drones.

15:50

That route house. And.

15:52

of his ego the security and all the gates is

15:54

offset wheeler bit early at to live. As.

15:58

if we just pulled up i'm he had in

16:00

the tiny little hamlet, you

16:02

know, around the corner. We

16:05

were just having a chin wag in the car, and then suddenly we just saw

16:09

Truss, like sort of wandering towards

16:11

her with like one copper and her kids, and they

16:13

were off to go like coffee in the local pub.

16:16

And she just had this sort of

16:18

calm, sereneness about her that

16:20

was just frankly quite

16:22

a reflection, fucking mental. But

16:25

like, and we sort of said like, you know, as

16:29

she's out with everyone's being wet, everyone needs to man

16:31

up, you know, the pound will

16:33

do what the pound does, you know, everyone just needs

16:35

to calm down. The last thing she said to me

16:37

was, I'm not sure if I should put Richard Cobden

16:40

in my conference speech. And I remember leading thinking, no,

16:42

it's going to be talking about Richard Cobden when it

16:44

comes to your conference speech, unfortunately. And it was just

16:46

this, yeah, this sort of, she has

16:48

an incredibly thick skin, but

16:51

almost to a point of

16:54

lacking any sort of actually emotional intelligence,

16:56

because to not be

16:59

able to see how bad

17:01

it was that day, and she'd be fine, everything

17:03

would be fine, everything would be okay.

17:05

That's when I really thought, oh Christ, this is as bad as,

17:08

but the warning signs are there in the book, that's

17:10

the thing. The reason I think we didn't really need

17:12

to rewrite anything, and people, once they read the book,

17:15

realise actually it is a warning from history. It

17:18

reminds me of, to take credit, the first time

17:20

I met Elistros was actually with the Melon Sunday.

17:22

Was that when she was incredibly flirty? That

17:25

was the second time. For the

17:27

first time, it was a Tory conference 2018, I

17:29

was with the Melon Sunday team, and we had this dinner,

17:32

and it was her and her then spad, and it

17:35

was Chester Field, who's now going to work for Zeenak,

17:37

and basically upstairs was the ports

17:39

reception for like British season, they were chanting C-Champ

17:41

songs, and they were doing like, what shall we

17:43

do? We were drunk and I remember like, Glen

17:45

Owen, trying to have to shout questions, and like,

17:48

dust was coming through the ceiling, and it reminds

17:50

me very much of that tonight. Yeah, yeah, I

17:52

like it, it's got a good background. We've

17:55

got all the clickable stuff about this, Tressen in the back,

17:57

so it's fine. And

18:00

what do you think is going to

18:03

happen now in terms

18:05

of, we've seen all the stuff with PopCon

18:07

this week, sort of battle for a Tory

18:09

party, people saying afterwards, what do you guys

18:11

think is going to happen with the general

18:13

election? You had a great exclusive earlier this

18:15

week that Sunak's now thinking of October rather

18:17

than November. Yeah, I think so.

18:19

I think just if you're looking at the direction

18:21

of travel that the West is going in, Trump

18:25

looks like he's – I think without

18:27

getting too technical and boring, I think that there

18:29

is an overcompensation on people's – lots

18:32

of people got it wrong in 2016 when Trump won and

18:34

now slightly overcompensating and saying doom-laden prediction that he's

18:36

definitely going to win. I think it's a lot

18:38

tighter than you would have it

18:40

believe. But there is a large chance

18:43

that geopolitics once again gets upended in

18:45

November. And

18:49

in all likelihood, it's going

18:51

to be a late victory. And

18:53

I think what Wave has

18:55

told to me was, yes, it's obviously a decision entirely

18:57

for the Prime Minister when to go to the country.

19:00

But I think some wiser hands of people who have been

19:02

around the book for a while and people who are paid

19:04

to look out for

19:06

our national interests have

19:08

basically said, look, you're probably

19:11

going to lose. Do we really want

19:13

in the middle of whatever

19:15

happens – if Trump

19:18

does win, whatever

19:20

happens around then, do we really want a

19:23

new inexperienced Labour government coming

19:25

in immediately when actually you could

19:27

have given – you could basically given months had to start to

19:29

get it bed in. No, we are –

19:32

it's too much important countries in NATO, too much

19:34

important countries in G7. I'd argue in terms of

19:36

what's going on in Ukraine at the moment, what's

19:38

going on in the Middle East, what's going on

19:40

in the Red Sea, you can't

19:43

have both the UK and

19:45

the US undergoing

19:48

fundamental change. And I think that message

19:50

has gone through. That's

19:53

interesting. Well, I wrote a subset of that

19:55

piece at the start of the year saying that the US presidency wasn't

19:57

going to have any impact on it. You

20:00

crazy can raise my mind. Has

20:03

gotten. What? Unless I want

20:05

to dive a bit more into that The

20:07

jobs either because I'm fascinated by.h I realized

20:09

As you get in. There. It's

20:11

Athletes that said that is it a

20:13

that I have for you Him for

20:16

most recent a special correspondent as well.

20:18

We're rehab and and I've got a

20:20

new of he started out so take

20:22

diaries as well. Area just other. That.

20:25

Overtime editor is a young twenty something

20:27

in Westminster China. Get stories and so

20:29

on like he used his used to

20:31

be really really good way of basically

20:33

subsidize your lifestyle because. if you

20:35

doing zelizer strings. Leaving Saturday back in the

20:37

day and he basically get to go to

20:39

three different idea night and live on the

20:41

champagne and canopies which. Sounds. Fun

20:43

into about six months and they've the lousy ever.

20:46

What to do is he? well as Evel Knievel

20:48

yolks that into the roast beef and them book.

20:50

I'm. But. I say it is of as you

20:52

level. That. And to have a gay. but in a weird way.

20:54

I mean. If. He is.

20:58

If. You look it sort of. people who have done

21:00

a it's a bit of very good way of basically.

21:03

It. A Cheese you a very good

21:05

skill set of learning that nothing holds.

21:08

Everything can be told and forty, where did you wanted?

21:10

space? And you don't need that.

21:12

You don't need up eighteenth paragraph of clothes

21:14

in the story to make it fun. Empathy

21:16

an interesting and get that is a very

21:18

good way of too tight, concise, fast moving.

21:21

Gossip. Stories in a very good training.

21:23

Went right to avoidance writing boring so

21:26

resets with a hasn't killed it. Will.

21:28

Or a blog is that we're all sorts with

21:30

I thought actually to the blogosphere as I call

21:32

it and but thou he absolutely as world will

21:35

not in everything is almost online. First was as

21:37

killed a little bit you never get exclusive story.

21:39

Offers. Twitter because. By.

21:41

Default Twitter is a publisher was has been published his

21:43

out that his toys out as I i was a

21:46

to have any one of us may and anyone is

21:48

with asses of i can hear girls. Twitter.

21:51

Muschamp. With. That route I am.

21:54

I get out because it is not is

21:56

not that he didn't never going again. Exclusive

21:58

on whatever the remit that? yeah yeah. I'm

22:00

get me.is enormous it on the great training or

22:02

they should I started doing it at a

22:04

university or and thus of because they're an upset

22:06

with you The specifics are sold a copy

22:08

of my chancellor that Baroness Hell speech at Bristol

22:11

the week before them bit the that will the

22:13

mitten the vote a week that the Miller

22:15

verdict the supreme court so the how hell of

22:17

the times get a coffee has this or

22:19

that was good fun ah and member like. That.

22:22

Doing lots of in posted events so am

22:24

I was yeah to taste for Michael Caine

22:27

around Somerset House a few years ago on

22:29

putting a breaks it Mister Cain and that

22:31

was good fun at are actually spilled a

22:33

glass of wine on them an Emmy Campbell's

22:35

one said that poke one hundred party. Or

22:38

that home I love Flush for my eyes and

22:40

of As You Lose is like a really young

22:42

used to were meeting people and have a different

22:44

image stuck. have a conversation, gets to reenter seconds to

22:46

say using about Diaries is people never forget. As.

22:49

A. And I'll have people now. Documentary.

22:52

My Who. And Two thousand

22:54

and nine he wrote this about me and my

22:56

i've completely forgotten that, but you clearly avid an

22:58

actress is bad people on the way up as

23:00

well. It's yeah, actually, that's why I think that's

23:03

why I think this is where do you that?

23:05

getting it back to the book was quite. That.

23:09

Two thousand and ten election when all that

23:11

gang came in the clauses rovs. The Trust

23:13

is a pretty big house, you know, the.

23:15

I we ride to the see in the business to

23:18

seen. So. Two thousand and Nine

23:20

Time. And then that back mop arrived

23:22

in in May. Two thousand and ten.

23:24

To actually, in a weird way, we so

23:26

start like that they would or a new

23:29

to it, I was already to analyses of

23:31

slightly the tide came. Yeah. And

23:33

a similar we'll all see themselves, you they want and

23:35

great things in in the cabinet. And but a lot.

23:37

I've been a dive sorry, rocks on the sidelines, but

23:39

I'm. There. Is that a lot of

23:42

contacts? I had his of Virginia reporter.

23:44

Ended up going to be very senior before, so

23:46

that when they were when they first met

23:48

during diary stories and as James as he told

23:51

him it's all in the Pups Of Westminster, they

23:53

were, they were pretty junior. That's a nice. There's

23:55

a line that I wish that were made

23:57

equal the twenty ten intake of Conserves web page.

24:00

probably the best generation since 1960.

24:02

Sounds like James Rose. I

24:08

think it was 1950 we called it, yeah. Or I

24:57

think it was 1950. I did always

25:00

have a theory that no one from the 2010 intake

25:02

might end up being prime and because it would end

25:04

up being a firing squad. It was the

25:06

expenses crisis in 2009. I suspect we'll get a similarly large

25:08

intake in the election

25:16

when it comes to the October on

25:18

Boto because there's 55 Tory MPs now

25:20

standing down. There's the natural

25:23

churn of its tea time in the cricket match, the

25:25

other guys turn to

25:27

bat. And then on the Labour

25:29

side they've actually had some pretty

25:31

poor intakes under the Corbyn years, the

25:33

17 intake was pretty shocking.

25:37

They only gained one seat in 2019 and

25:40

then lots of people that have come in have

25:42

been, the

25:44

people that come in by elections are not being very

25:46

impressive at all. Do you think

25:48

the standard of our politicians is dropping? I

25:51

was talking about this the other night. It's a standard dropping or are we

25:53

just getting an order? We

25:56

get an order. It's a standard

25:58

dropping or is accountability increasing? I

26:00

think it, I mean, would there be

26:02

duffer MPs in the, yeah, in the,

26:04

in previous parts? Course. Yeah. No, it

26:07

is politics now, a dirtier business

26:09

and seedier and grubbier and more

26:12

corrupt than ever before. I

26:14

don't think it is. I just think the

26:16

bar is much, the standards bar is much

26:18

higher now and stuff that I have

26:21

10, 15 years when I started saying Westminster people

26:23

wouldn't have got away with. Yes. Would

26:25

have got away with. Now, especially

26:27

on the sex and bullying side

26:29

of things, the game has completely changed. And

26:32

so the reason we've got the record number

26:34

of by-elections and number, number, MP suspended and

26:36

the fact that the independents are now a

26:39

larger box than the, um, the

26:41

Lib Dems. I mean, there are more people suspended

26:43

by the two main parties than there are Lib

26:45

Dems in Parliament. So they're technically, they technically, you

26:48

know, if the SMP, you know, they'd get a

26:50

question of PMQs. On

26:53

behalf of the Nazis, I'd like to say,

26:55

um, so it was, um, you

26:58

know, our standards higher. Yeah, definitely. I think

27:01

everyone likes to take the current proper politicians as

27:03

the worst ever, but you know. Who is advising

27:05

stars to kind of look out for both Labour

27:07

and Tory ventures that we might not come across

27:09

yet? Go on, dear. I

27:12

think Laura Farris will be one to watch. I think she's

27:15

one of the people that she's going to be due to

27:17

hold her seat. Her father was an MP as well, but

27:19

she's been made a Home Office Minister. I think she's quite

27:21

impressive on one of the Tory side. Uh,

27:23

and then I think, uh, you know, you've got to look

27:25

at Labour, people who got promoted in the last reshuffle. So

27:27

people like, I should have been out of the airwaves because

27:29

of obviously what's been happening in Gaza, but Shabbat Ammamud, I

27:31

think is very impressive, first, you know, Justice Secretary. Um,

27:34

but frankly, a lot of the, uh, ministers of

27:36

the next Labour government, if that happens to be

27:38

the case later this year, are being selected now

27:40

because I think the next intake is probably going

27:42

to be more than 50% of the whole parliamentary

27:44

party in Labour. It's going to be MP,

27:47

new MPs, backbenchers, um, new intake people. And so it's

27:49

going to be a whole new, different type of parliament

27:51

feel to it. I once, um, uh,

27:53

tweeted that I thought Darren Jones, when he was,

27:55

um, he was the, he's Labour, he was the,

27:57

uh, chairman of the business select.

28:00

And it was quite a long time ago, sort

28:02

of dying in Corbyn days. And I said, I

28:04

just tweeted, could this be

28:07

the Labour's next Prime Minister? He's

28:09

now been down in the shadow cabinet as

28:12

a Chief Secretary. He stopped

28:14

me in the corridor about three days later and said, please don't

28:16

ever tweet that again. It was incredibly unhelpful. Last

28:20

thing, any inspirational Labour politician under Corbyn

28:22

needs to be, he's being tipped by

28:24

the sun. But on the

28:27

story, I think what happened, Darren Jones, it's

28:29

very good by the way. Oh

28:31

good, there we go. Darren Jones, very good.

28:34

West Streeting obviously I think has got a lot to offer, a

28:36

really good square off the unions. If

28:38

he does become deeply unpopular as Labour's Health

28:41

Secretary's tend to do. On

28:45

the government side now, is

28:47

the next Prime Minister, Tory Prime Minister even

28:50

elected yet? Possibly not.

28:52

Is the next Tory Prime Minister someone you've never heard of?

28:55

Almost certainly. I'd say my tip

28:58

is the Exchequer Secretary, what's he called?

29:00

Gareth Davies. I think he's a really impressive

29:02

guy. Overdue him from

29:04

Grantham. But it

29:06

depends what happens in the

29:08

– if elections are closer than people think, and

29:13

there's a sort of route back for the Tories

29:15

in one go, if they can do it in

29:17

five years, if they could, you know, then

29:20

I think they might not go full mental, and

29:24

they might choose someone a bit more unifying.

29:27

So it's not only like James Cleverley, but if it's the

29:29

talking that is looking like it's going to be, they're

29:32

going to need an extended period

29:34

of shouty crackers. And

29:37

you said that you

29:39

don't become senior cabinet minister by the age

29:41

of 38, without being weird at university. Some

29:44

might say you don't become political editor of the Sun in

29:47

your mid-30s, similar age.

29:50

But talk to us about

29:52

the job. Like, obviously you've got a big decision

29:54

to make about declarations and stuff. I'm not expecting

29:56

that as an exclusive. No, sorry. I'll

29:58

come back until the end of it. You'll be

30:00

the last to know. That's what I used to say to you when I was in number 10.

30:03

Please, please, please stop calling

30:05

this number. Yeah. What,

30:11

but talk to us about the job, how it's done. You've

30:13

spent your time. It's amazing. So,

30:16

I mean, look, I've, without

30:18

being too sort of

30:21

academic, on purpose, I've

30:23

always sort of, I came through on

30:25

the wave of completely changing of how

30:27

the media works and the fact

30:29

that we were selling 4

30:32

million copies in 1997

30:34

and we're not selling that now, but we're doing more stuff. We're

30:41

doing far more across multiple platforms,

30:43

across video, across audio, across the

30:45

website, on two sides of the

30:47

pond now. So,

30:50

where before, the job

30:52

of political editor could be quite a civilized

30:54

birth, you'd be, you know, you'd be in for 10 years,

30:57

you know, did

31:00

write a list in the morning and, you know, then take

31:02

lunch. Sort

31:05

of come back about 4, write

31:09

some copy. My predecessor Trevor Cavanagh,

31:11

who did the job for 35, for 25 years, used

31:16

to leave the office at 6 and we had a, it was

31:18

a life change when he got a car phone, where

31:22

he would basically drive back to his house

31:24

in Epsom and dictate the copy down the

31:26

phone from the car, which to me now

31:28

sounds like the height of sophistication. But

31:31

now, it's, you know, we've got someone on board,

31:33

we've got someone reporting on politics from 7am to

31:35

11pm at night and we're doing sort

31:37

of 15 and 16 stories a day across

31:40

online, across print

31:43

with sort of, we're spending most

31:45

of my time in this job has been

31:47

basically merging, well the first thing I had

31:49

to do really well, I got the job was merging the print

31:53

and the online operation into one team. We all was so

31:55

much wasted of people that, you know, one person would write

31:57

the story from online and someone else would write it for

32:00

Able out soon a point that getting I went into

32:02

that the a faggot and out at the same time

32:04

it in an hour video and way into a fat.

32:06

The every story needs video content because. Ninety.

32:09

Five percent basically of our readers who really

32:11

bozak stories on on on, on the on

32:13

the eve online are lucky on the phone.

32:16

And. That often rather just have a totem intends

32:18

like in in Forty Five Seconds in video. Then.

32:21

The. Upset people conceiving the news and tired of

32:23

away and that my job is completely changed

32:25

in the fact that we've gotta be. A

32:28

fast fat. Correct. And.

32:30

Number one all the time. Regardless,

32:33

Of that phones so you know it'll

32:35

be five amount. About the lightweight but.

32:38

Probably. One percent of my content is all neck and

32:40

most of the universe. It. Am.

32:42

Rights. We are going to these questions in

32:44

a minute, but I've got quickfire questions from their

32:47

again when did you start dying Or have long

32:49

as it is just. As. Quick.

32:51

nobody threaten. Can

32:53

be quick my questions from the book. So

32:56

I was running around the park

32:58

resumes and may still ask a

33:00

question to us. a rash of

33:02

When James Heavy Faber This and

33:04

What Did this just. Get.

33:06

In her show graduate or oh as I

33:08

be will be nine us was devastated but

33:11

the second ranking where he was was his

33:13

shoes on a way to cool for glory

33:15

but not gonna be they say I am.

33:18

What? Did Donald Trump right

33:20

in the old discussion? see you mistress

33:22

ago The great things are thing as

33:25

get a great day and get a

33:27

great deal. I get of a deal.

33:29

it's. Ah, what was

33:32

the snacks? For. The. Chance

33:34

thankful for what? editor. Will

33:37

lose the snack the list just

33:39

had with our husbands and Ten

33:41

Downing Street. When. She decided she

33:43

was gonna stand cheddar cheese and seventy

33:45

on.and hi I think Yes! Point Five.

33:48

Very good. size

33:50

color five color at his side

33:52

terrific people in the room you

33:55

knew how to use her to

33:57

the takes a cut them What

34:01

was in her rider?

34:04

No mayonnaise. Absolutely no

34:06

mayonnaise. Sushi. Question. To

34:09

put us over the unblog in the hotel room without fail.

34:12

Chilled. Bagels.

34:15

Something about bagels. And

34:18

she only liked the blue M&Ms. That's not

34:20

that. Very much, yeah, yeah. Quinton

34:28

Lutz described her

34:30

new haircut as

34:32

a cross between two politicians. Which

34:35

politicians were they? One Thatcher? No.

34:38

Michael Fambrikant? Yes. And

34:41

one slightly more famous? Boris? No.

34:45

Hilary Clinton? Hilary Clinton. Can

34:49

you tell us the

34:51

story about Quasi-Quarting

34:57

calling Aleister Jack, who is

34:59

the Scottish Secretary of the State, I love the story.

35:01

And the presence of a great Chief Whip as well.

35:04

This is a great story to tell. So

35:07

it's about as tall as you get. So

35:11

the Chief Whip and someone

35:14

else, but Aleister Jack, the Scottish Secretary,

35:17

obviously were shooting on a Tuesday morning

35:23

in their Range Rovers. And

35:27

from memory I think Quasi phones, this is

35:29

when Boris is going down the Swanee, and

35:32

Quasi phones Aleister Jack, massively Boris

35:34

supporting ally of Boris Johnson. And

35:37

starts driving there in the Range

35:39

Rover between pegs. And

35:43

Quasi is giving a little bit of Boris' fuck mate,

35:45

like where's the life point, what are we doing, what

35:47

are we doing, what are we doing. You've got to

35:49

get on board with Liz, yeah. And

35:52

Aleister Jack just says very calmly, I

35:56

disagree Quasi, and furthermore I'd like you to know

35:58

that you're on the speaker's page. The the to

36:00

sit next to they have. A

36:03

I'm a very quickly about him

36:05

as a southern. please go back.

36:07

It was lamps he wasn't speaking

36:09

from the you know i'm Loyal

36:11

out once as a sense of

36:13

the keg as in their political

36:15

party, that out as when the

36:17

and. When be was

36:19

today stupid things I've and upon a

36:21

question for me before we go to

36:23

school for a couple said get your

36:26

questions ready. I'm. You.

36:28

Genuinely probably got the political scale

36:30

of the decade with my and

36:32

taught. At. His age.

36:36

Just. How. Does that come about? What's

36:38

the process city that gave three like him

36:40

as a real. Details behind the

36:42

story of what the job dials.

36:45

Resurrect. Would rise in a sticker resuscitated. We

36:47

can be broadcast and. I'm

36:50

afraid size by we finish the

36:53

recording hand. If you want to

36:55

come to teacher Jimmy John's live

36:57

events just makes we sign up

37:00

to subside in the show. Nice

37:02

guy and his final push to

37:04

hurry and times on the feature

37:07

a chance on what advice. Five

37:12

Much advice and responding Young Janice,

37:14

what should they be doing? the

37:17

was answering said and. Seven.

37:19

Days they get a job in college as well

37:22

as the time. At. What I

37:24

can talk on the tabs on the

37:26

cheap on the isolate it is. Where.

37:28

Is be very nice was nice. I just say that was one of

37:30

the reasons I became a generous that.