0:04

Welcome to Joanna and the Maestro.

0:08

Hello Maestro. Hello and welcome to this

0:11

tiny mini episode of Joanna and the

0:13

Maestro. Stephen, what

0:16

is your favourite note? I

0:20

love that. And

0:25

why is it your favourite note? Play your favourite

0:27

note on the piano now. No, no,

0:29

because look, the

0:31

truth is that if... Sorry.

0:37

I can't compute this question

0:39

because a D in

0:43

2023 is a

0:45

completely different sound from the D

0:47

that would have been heard in

0:49

Mozart's time because pitch is completely

0:51

different. Do I? I don't know. So

0:55

if I say, oh no, I like

0:58

a B flat. Well... So

1:02

on its own, is a note anything on its own? No.

1:06

OK, that's the end of the answer. Well, thank you

1:08

so much. Thanks for listening to Joanna and the Maestro.

1:10

But, but on certain

1:13

instruments. Now there's

1:15

an interesting thing. Because... On

1:17

a cello, for example. The

1:20

note to love is when it is when they play

1:22

the lowest note. The

1:24

lowest string is tuned to a C. And

1:28

when they play that note... Open.

1:31

Open string. And if it's tuned

1:33

correctly, it's got the most fantastic

1:35

ring. And of course, I love

1:38

the way that pianos, particularly right

1:40

at the bottom, most pianos,

1:43

not the big bersendorfers, which have a

1:45

ridiculous extension of a third, but on

1:47

most pianos, it's a B flat and

1:49

an A at the bottom. If you play

1:51

those in octaves, it's

1:53

heavenly. I

1:57

see you couldn't love that. Yeah. So a

1:59

B flat. in the lower octave on

2:01

the piano, that'll do. My Strew, I've got a

2:03

question for you from James. He's

2:06

just written James. Pretty

2:08

nice. Quite a lot of them. One of the

2:10

most popular boys names in Britain for a long

2:12

time. Not anymore. It's gone James. My

2:14

old man introduced me to the trout

2:17

when I was little at the Grange,

2:19

and Uncle B's triple. Now

2:21

can you explain what those mean? You

2:23

mean Chubit's trout quintet, didn't you? Yes,

2:25

based on the song called the trout.

2:29

And Uncle B's triple? Yeah, well

2:31

that's going to be Ludwig van

2:34

Beethoven's triple concerto. Okay, this is

2:36

very sort of inner kind of

2:38

talk. That's a fantastic piece. But

2:40

he says, James says, what other quartets,

2:42

quintets, am I missing that will bring

2:45

tears to my eyes and

2:47

make the hairs on my arms stand on

2:49

arms? He loves these pieces, isn't that lovely?

2:51

You're not asking a lot there, are you?

2:53

No, just what other music? Is there

2:55

In the World, James? That's very

2:57

lovely. Well, in

3:00

terms of chamber music, I'm delighted you

3:02

picked out the trout because that's, what

3:05

is that, a piano? Is it

3:07

a quintet? Yes. Well,

3:09

there are two piano quintets that

3:11

I really must recommend to you.

3:14

Mozart's quintet for piano

3:16

and woodwind instruments is

3:18

a divine piece. It's

3:20

got such innocence and life and

3:22

beauty about it. I

3:25

love that particularly. And then,

3:27

of course, there's the Beethoven

3:29

piano quintet in

3:32

E flat, lovely last movement. Et

3:39

cetera. I can't do it from this

3:41

angle. Beethoven was just suspended by his heels

3:43

from the seething light

3:45

there. So they're

3:47

both in E flat. Interesting. That's

3:50

interesting, isn't it? Both for piano

3:52

and wind. That's a must. Is

3:55

that enough to be going on with... Yes, that's lovely. James is

3:57

grateful for that because he's got another question. And

4:00

this is rather harsh a word. Why are

4:02

there so few great women composers

4:04

and indeed musicians? Obviously the

4:06

great Clara Schumann, Clara Haski.

4:09

Is that Husky? Haskil? I

4:11

don't know. Jacqueline Dupre, you know more

4:14

than us James. Clara Haskil, Jacqueline Dupre

4:16

being the exceptions. Plus my new BFF,

4:18

Sol, I literally don't understand what you're

4:20

talking about. But did Sony Philip

4:22

Naxos et al gravitate towards the males?

4:24

Why were the women left out and

4:26

who are they? Good grief. I know

4:28

he's just furious. No, but

4:31

you're missing out on a few things.

4:33

Actually on Sunday I did a recital

4:36

with the wonderful B.B. Heel and we

4:38

did songs by Clara Schumann and Fanny

4:40

Mendelssohn, who was also a

4:43

very good composer. Mendelssohn's sister. They

4:46

were both really terrific, skilled,

4:49

inventive. Now there was a social

4:51

thing going on here because neither

4:53

Clara Schumann, by the way, was

4:56

a wonderful pianist and she was

4:58

regarded highly as a pianist. But

5:01

there was a kind of a social thing. We all

5:03

know about it. That men were

5:05

always going to be in the driving seat.

5:08

And anyway, we don't need to go

5:10

into that. But there are now lots

5:13

of women composers. In fact,

5:15

our master of the King's

5:17

music, spelled with a C-K at the end of

5:19

it, is Judith Weir, an

5:22

old friend of mine. And she's

5:24

had a very successful career composing.

5:27

She and I were percussionists together

5:29

in the National Youth Orchestra. She's

5:32

a wonderful composer, written operas, all

5:34

sorts of works. And she's really,

5:36

really an important composer in this

5:38

generation. So is Sally Bemish. And

5:40

so is Debbie Wiseman. Yes, Debbie

5:42

Wiseman. There are many, many more

5:44

women composers who are right at

5:46

the top of the tree now,

5:49

I'm happy to say. As far as

5:51

musicians go, I think

5:53

it's pretty even Stevens now.

5:56

I think there are just as many

5:58

great women. the soloists. I mean,

6:02

honestly, the names would just come out of

6:04

me like a waterfall. Ida Hendel, one of

6:06

the most wonderful violinists. Well,

6:08

Nicola Benedetti, kind of famous beyond

6:11

words. And Sophie Mutter, a violinist,

6:13

fantastic. It goes on and on

6:15

and on. Evelyn Glennie on drums. And we talked to Anna

6:17

Lapwood the other day. So you've

6:20

just got to look for them. And there's a

6:22

real thing going on at the moment, just as

6:24

an example. The BBC are now really

6:26

promoting women composers quite

6:29

fully now, as politicians

6:31

always say. There's still a lot to

6:33

do. But be

6:35

assured, it's a pretty even playing field

6:37

now. Thank goodness. What I love about

6:39

you talking about music is that you

6:41

always talked about the great

6:44

divas, the great singers, that they

6:46

are great musicians. So into this

6:48

mix, we can add singers, women

6:50

singers who are musicians, because they are

6:52

musicians. Their instrument is their voice. But

6:55

they have just as much musical knowledge, wouldn't

6:57

you say? Oh, yes. Absolutely. So you've

7:00

put in some of the greatest

7:02

names in the history of music, names like

7:04

Kallis and divas like this. Yes,

7:07

Joan Sutherland. Sutherland and Janet Baker.

7:09

Yes, yes, yes. And all the

7:11

great, great singers. Yes. So

7:13

they're musicians as well, James. James, you've been

7:15

very nice. Thank you for being quite so

7:17

furious on our behalf, what I used to

7:19

call the gentle sex. And

7:22

now Maestro, we have a question from France.

7:24

It's from Gillie, who might be

7:27

Gillie, but he might be Gillie. Greetings to

7:29

you both. I'd like to ask a question

7:31

about opera. What do you think of directors

7:33

who changed the actual story of an opera?

7:36

Many years ago, I saw Tosca at my

7:38

local theatre here in France. Musically, it

7:40

was fine and it was staged nicely.

7:42

All very traditional and nothing untoward until

7:45

the end. They shot

7:47

Tosca. This I couldn't bear. What do

7:49

you think? Now, as we know, Tosca

7:51

jumps to her death. Suicide, she jumps.

7:55

And they shot her. What do you think

7:57

of that? It's very, very difficult, actually. with

8:00

directors who want to change the

8:02

story. The way

8:04

we framed it last time was

8:06

to look at these two terms

8:09

regitéata and das concept, which

8:11

are two different things. One changes the

8:13

story and the other focuses on an

8:16

element that they've picked out of the

8:18

story to the damage of the rest.

8:21

Now, I'm not surprised you were

8:23

shocked to see Tosca shot, although

8:26

if you'd never seen the opera, maybe you could

8:28

believe it. But for me,

8:30

that actually, it really doesn't work. She's

8:34

supposed to commit suicide, as I think you know.

8:37

Having said that, I mean, I would

8:39

also be slightly shocked because it's Cavaradossi

8:41

that is supposed to be shot. And

8:46

it is at her wit's end and

8:48

sees nothing in her life worth living

8:50

for. Because Cavaradossi is her lover. Yes,

8:52

and throws herself off the ramparts. So

8:55

I wouldn't like that. I have to say

8:57

that that's not the worst sort

9:00

of bowlerization of a

9:02

plot that I've ever seen.

9:05

The things that I find really difficult are

9:07

when a composer simply

9:09

refuses to engage

9:12

with what the music is

9:14

adding to the story. Because

9:16

don't let anyone forget, opera

9:18

is a story told through music. So

9:22

if a director ignores the music, and

9:25

I've worked with some directors who say,

9:27

oh, pay no attention to the music.

9:29

The real drama is this and

9:31

explains what they want. But

9:34

saying ignore the music, well, to

9:36

a musician and a singing artist,

9:38

that's maddening. Because they've

9:41

learned the entire role through the

9:43

music and using the

9:45

text as a partner.

9:48

So you can't separate them out. I

9:51

agree. It's frustrating. And

9:54

conductors really wrestle with this.

9:57

On the other hand, there are wonderful

9:59

directors who will be able to shine

10:01

new light on an opera

10:03

whilst still loving and respecting what

10:06

the composer is doing with the

10:08

music. Julie, there we are. I would

10:11

have been furious if they'd shot Tosca because I

10:13

think that somebody who gives up her life then

10:15

because she loved her, loved her so much and

10:17

he's shot in front of her, is quite different

10:19

from her then just being shot by the same

10:21

people. So awful, Julie. I'm on your side. What

10:24

was the last opera we both saw together? And

10:26

can we give us a short

10:28

review of it? And it's not including an opera

10:30

Stephen has conducted, please. Well, that rules it out

10:32

because Steve has conducted what, a hundred and something

10:34

operas? Well, what performances? No,

10:36

but you've conducted many, many, many

10:39

operas. So an opera that you

10:41

haven't conducted is very

10:43

rare. So the one that you

10:45

aren't conducting, I'd like to suggest that we

10:47

went to Glineborn and saw the Rake's Progress.

10:49

Yeah, wonderful. Which you have conducted in the

10:52

past both at Glineborn. Yes. And in that

10:54

production it was the David Hockney production. Beautiful.

10:56

Which is coming up for what? Good grief.

10:58

A long 50 years. Yes. And you were

11:01

a very young man and you conducted it

11:03

down at Glineborn. Yes. It was jolly interesting

11:05

actually for me. And you and I have

11:07

seen the Rake's Progress. You came to see

11:09

me conduct the Rake, I think, before

11:12

we were married. I think I did.

11:14

On tour. What did you think? I

11:16

thought it was stunning. Musically, you of

11:18

course would have always would

11:20

be aware of how slightly different did

11:22

the conductors doing it. But there it

11:24

was on the stage with much the

11:27

same beautiful David Hockney, sort

11:29

of red, green and black and

11:31

blue Pentel kind of drawings on

11:34

the background. Fantastic staging. Revolutionary, really.

11:36

John Cox did the production. John Cox

11:38

did it and David Hockney was there

11:40

in all his fabulous clothes,

11:42

smacking like a chimney. It was sensational.

11:45

But it was for me absolutely thrilling

11:47

to see it with you but sitting beside

11:49

you rather than. I loved it too. I knew of a

11:51

couple of the singers. The rest

11:53

I didn't know at all. So

11:56

that was really, really lovely to

11:58

see different artists. doing

12:00

it, and Robin Ticharti conducted it in

12:03

a way that at first I thought,

12:05

good God, is

12:07

that possible? Because he did

12:10

it looking at it in a neoclassical

12:12

way in sort of Mates Artian style.

12:14

And some of his tempi were so

12:17

fast that at first I thought, whoa,

12:19

can you really do that? But

12:22

he could do it and he did do

12:24

it. He's a rather wonderful conductor. So

12:26

it sounded completely different to me. It

12:29

was an eye-opener and

12:31

the singers were marvellous. And John Cox, of

12:33

course, who'd directed it yet

12:35

again, I could feel their

12:38

minds at work. It

12:40

was a classic production and wonderfully

12:43

sung and wonderfully played the LPO,

12:46

who must have that piece in their blood by

12:48

now. They've played it so often at Kleinworx. Now

12:51

Rhea from Sandbanks has written to Maestro and

12:53

she says Igor Stravinsky wrote his famous Rite

12:55

of Spring in 1913 at the

12:57

age of 31. He didn't

13:01

die until 1971. But

13:03

you could argue that the Rite of Spring is his

13:05

most famous work and therefore is kind of his best

13:07

work. My question for Maestro is

13:10

this, are composers like chess

13:12

players or mathematicians at their best

13:14

when they're young? Are

13:16

they at their best when they're young? No,

13:21

no, I don't think you could say

13:23

that because as a composer

13:25

grows and matures, they

13:28

begin to follow slightly

13:31

new paths. It's a very

13:33

interesting thing to look at Mozart,

13:35

who probably died far too

13:38

young, 36, I think. He

13:41

probably died at the peak of

13:43

his path. If you consider that

13:45

he'd just written the wonderful 40th

13:47

Symphony and then the Jupiter, number

13:49

41. I wonder at

13:51

the loss of all the great music

13:53

that someone of Mozart's caliber would have

13:55

gone on to write. And then

13:57

if you consider that Beethoven did live in

14:00

a relative old age into his 50s.

14:03

And the music he was writing at

14:05

the end of his life was revolutionary.

14:07

This was an older man having

14:10

written some of the most beautiful,

14:12

youthful music and mature music. But

14:15

in his latter years was

14:17

writing music that pointed absolutely

14:20

like an arrow into

14:23

the future. Revolutionary music.

14:26

And look at Verdi. I don't think

14:28

it's arguable. His two greatest operas, Otello

14:30

and Faustoff, were written in his

14:33

80s. Now the other thing you say...

14:35

And Richard Strauss. Richard Strauss.

14:37

Look at the difference between operas

14:40

like Salome and Electra, which were

14:42

his revolutionary works, which

14:45

made such a stir and still

14:47

do. And then compare them with

14:50

his last opera Capriccio or

14:53

Metamorphoson, written in Memoriam of

14:55

Dresden after the bombing. You

14:57

can see the effects of

14:59

maturity, the mellow nature of

15:02

the four last songs. There's

15:04

a purity in Strauss's later

15:06

music and the simplicity and

15:08

innocence that a young man couldn't find.

15:10

Now I grant you Mendelssohn wrote his

15:13

octet when I think he was 17.

15:15

Now that's a great work. But

15:18

there were still works like Elijah to

15:20

Come and the Five Symphonies,

15:23

the Reformation, the Fifth Symphony, later

15:26

on in his life. Wonderful, wonderful,

15:28

deep pieces of maturity.

15:31

In Stavinsky's case, I

15:33

would argue that something

15:35

that is perhaps his most famous

15:38

work does not necessarily

15:40

imply that it's his greatest

15:42

work. That was

15:44

Stavinsky also being revolutionary after

15:46

he'd written those extraordinary

15:49

works, The Firebird, which

15:51

was very romantic. And The Rite

15:53

of Spring blew everybody's wigs off,

15:56

literally, in the auditorium. They were

15:58

fighting, as you know. He

16:00

then went on to write music

16:02

in several more different styles, neoclassical

16:05

works, the Rake's Progress, smaller

16:08

orchestra, smaller framework,

16:10

utterly utterly beautiful. And

16:13

of course in his older age, he was writing some

16:15

of his most deeply religious works.

16:19

So I think composers are probably

16:21

more like writers of great literature

16:25

whose work it develops during

16:27

their life. And

16:29

they look at different paths, different ways

16:31

of expressing things. Ria, I hope that's

16:33

helped you in some way.

16:35

I have a feeling the answer is this. Some

16:38

maybe, some maybe not. Anyway, but many thanks

16:40

to Maestro for elaborating on that. Thank

16:42

you for rounding me off. If your life

16:44

is a piece of music, what would

16:46

it be and why? Why

16:51

do people... Try to answer that. Try

16:53

it, Maestro. But

16:56

a piece of music is a mini-tesimal

16:58

part of music and of life.

17:01

So it's an aspect. So

17:05

I'm not quite sure what you're getting

17:07

at with the question. Well, I'm getting

17:09

at a piece of music. If somebody plays

17:11

a piece of music and

17:13

you could go, oh, Stevie's life rolled up

17:15

in one. You can't do it, can you?

17:18

You can choose something huge. I

17:20

don't know what my life is. So how can I... I

17:23

know what a piece of music is. I think you're dodging

17:25

the bullet here. What's the question? Try

17:28

and sum up your life in a piece

17:30

of music. Schubert's impromptu in A flat. Well,

17:32

that's a very pretty piece of music that

17:35

one can listen to many, many times and enjoy.

17:38

Well, there we are. OK, that can be my answer, if

17:40

we've got to give an answer. Otherwise, we're going to remain

17:42

in these shackles, trying to

17:44

sort through these unbelievably difficult questions.

17:47

Actually, that was a sweet thing, wasn't it? If

17:49

your life is in a song, do you know what it

17:51

would be? My life! In my whole life!

17:54

You get so angry, just say something. Oh, I don't

17:56

know, Tom Waits, the old 55. How about that? My

18:01

answer would be Elvis Presley, are you lonesome tonight?

18:03

And my answer would be Elvis, no, I'm not,

18:05

because I'm with you.