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crucial. And with obstacles consistently impending,

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determination is essential in overcoming them.

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0:44

Hello and welcome to my podcast. Do me

0:46

a favor, subscribe to the John Connery Report

0:48

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0:50

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much appreciated when you tune in. And

0:58

don't forget, you can read my work

1:01

on espn.com. I have a story up

1:03

now about the importance of this

1:05

draft for the Washington Commanders. I think we all

1:07

know why it's a big draft, but I go

1:09

into a lot of reasons why and how they

1:12

can really set themselves up for the future after

1:15

what I think has been a good off season.

1:17

Listen, they got the new owner, got a new

1:20

coach, new GM. You get the

1:22

quarterback right, get the left tackle right, maybe get another

1:24

edge rusher and a quarterback. Now

1:26

you're really taking a step as a franchise.

1:28

So that's up on espn.com. Also,

1:31

in a few minutes, I'll be joined

1:33

by former Washington Redskin tackle, John Jansen.

1:36

John was one of my favorites to cover back

1:38

in the day when he was here, solid right

1:40

tackle for Washington. He and Chris Samuel

1:42

is a terrific bookend, but I wanted to bring John on

1:44

for a couple of reasons. One, J.J.

1:46

McCarthy. Now the last part, the

1:48

last few minutes of our, five, six, seven

1:51

minutes of our conversation were more about J.J.

1:53

McCarthy because John is a

1:55

Michigan football analyst. So he does morning

1:57

radio in Detroit. He knows J.J.

1:59

McCarthy. very well. You cannot dismiss

2:02

McCarthy as a potential pick for

2:04

Washington. I think right now I

2:07

would still say Jayden Daniels is a favorite,

2:09

but I am not under the assumption that

2:11

it's between Jayden and Drake May. I mean,

2:14

like I said, I don't think you can

2:16

sleep. I don't think you can dismiss McCarthy,

2:18

which is why I wanted to bring him

2:20

on. So John knows him very

2:22

well. So

2:25

there you go. I'm going to talk to him in a

2:27

minute. But before I get there, just there's a couple of

2:29

things. One, a couple of programming notes. I'm

2:32

going to have on Jeff Legwalt from ESPN

2:34

to talk about his top 100 list. Jeff

2:36

talks to dozens of scouts,

2:39

executives, coaches, and

2:41

when compiling his top 100 player lists

2:43

for the draft. So it

2:45

may be a different it may be a different

2:47

list than what others might have. But I would

2:49

say this, nobody's lists are ever the

2:52

same. And if they are, it's a matter

2:54

of groupthink. And you didn't probably do the

2:56

work and you maybe you're following groupthink. Not

2:58

always, but I do think that's a lot

3:00

of the case. You go to

3:02

a team, there's sometimes teams are very different

3:04

on their list. So Legwalt's list is compiled

3:06

through his own work, but also talking to

3:08

dozens of scouts, executives, coaches, whatever. Anyways, I

3:11

want to bring them on and talk about

3:13

some guys of interest for Washington, why he

3:15

ranked them how he did, but

3:17

just insight into some of these players because few know

3:19

him as much as Legwalt does. Listen,

3:21

folks, like there are a lot of people might watch a

3:24

game or two and think a TV copy of a guy

3:26

and think, Oh, I know this guy. That's not what Legwalt

3:28

does. He's watching these guys since September

3:31

and putting in a ton of work watching

3:33

film, but also talking and talking and talking

3:35

and talking to scouts. So very

3:37

important. Anyway, they'll probably be out Monday. I think

3:39

it is. Also, for

3:42

you gold members, I'm going to be doing a private

3:44

zoom Monday night, 730 Eastern time.

3:46

Join me there, bring your questions just for you

3:49

guys. If you want to become a gold member,

3:51

go to the Empire Media YouTube page on your

3:53

laptop, see the word join, click on there, find

3:55

the membership and go. And for the other members,

3:57

they're going to be doing a live zoom Monday

3:59

night. the Q&A will be or the

4:01

little session will be available to you afterwards.

4:04

So thank you for

4:06

everybody's the member and join me there

4:08

and we'll have some fun talking about

4:10

the draft and we'll have more stuff

4:12

for everybody else before the draft and

4:14

then on draft night I will have

4:16

a podcast up shortly after they make

4:18

their selection number two whoever it

4:20

is and I will be glad to get it

4:22

over because I think this whole process can be

4:25

nauseating and exhausting. I think it's

4:27

comical that sometimes a reporter might say

4:29

something positive about a guy that they

4:31

think could be good for this franchise

4:33

and it makes people upset. That

4:35

to me is kind of funny. I

4:38

think each of these three quarterbacks that

4:40

have been discussed each offer something to

4:42

me that would be intriguing and

4:44

tempting for a team to draft. So because

4:46

you like one over the other does that

4:49

mean you don't like the others? No. So

4:52

I think we can be a little bit

4:54

more mature than thinking like that. Anyways so

4:57

let's move on from that but the other

5:00

thing I want to talk about is a whole

5:02

Jake and Daniel situation and just the smoke or

5:04

the noise that is out there and I would

5:06

just say ignore the noise because I just I

5:08

think that there's too much out there that I don't

5:11

think is indicative of

5:13

his thinking. I have not heard during this

5:15

process that he doesn't want to play here

5:17

and I think I told you last week

5:19

that there was someone who's close to him

5:21

who felt like Washington would be a good

5:23

place for him from a certainly from a

5:25

football perspective and among

5:28

there was yeah anyway so

5:30

yeah so there you go but

5:32

I have not heard that he doesn't want to

5:34

play here so I'm gonna stick with what I

5:37

know based on what I've heard and where I've

5:39

heard it from. So I

5:41

just I just think that there's a lot of stuff and

5:43

and here's the other thing there's zero

5:46

chance that Washington is going to

5:48

change its mind on a player

5:50

based on an agent's emoji tweet.

5:52

Zero chance so if

5:55

they want him they are going to take

5:58

him because one thing to know It's

6:00

not like the agent is there all the

6:02

time. You're dealing with the player. And this

6:04

player, when I talk to other teams about

6:06

him, and I ask him, do you have

6:08

any concerns? Do you have any red flags? And I

6:10

asked one the other day, team that really likes him,

6:12

no red flags. So just

6:15

understand that. And

6:17

when you hear this, and the other thing

6:19

is, Jayden Dammit has instead of words. So

6:21

we don't know for sure what he really

6:24

thinks. Ignore the noise,

6:26

folks. Here's my conversation with

6:28

Washington Redskins, former Washington Redskins

6:30

offensive tackle, John Jansen. Hey,

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8:57

right, John, despite that nasty background

8:59

that you have there, and enjoy

9:01

your one season because

9:03

it's a last for a while. Anyways, good

9:05

to see you again. One

9:07

season? Hey, it's great to see you. I'm

9:10

not sure what you're talking about one season.

9:12

We've kicked the Buckeyes ass for now three

9:14

years in a row. The national

9:16

championship was nice. And I know

9:19

I have this jersey here simply

9:21

for you. But for all of

9:23

those nostalgic Washington Commanders

9:25

fans, this one

9:28

is old school. I don't know

9:30

if I'm allowed to say it. Redskins. You're allowed. You're

9:32

allowed to say it. Anyways, it's been good

9:34

catching up with you. I'll talk to

9:36

you later. Enjoyed it. Trust me, this is

9:38

longer than I expected. Yeah,

9:42

anyways, we'll get

9:44

past the nauseating background and

9:46

I'll be OK because I'm just going to look straight

9:48

ahead and try not to look in your direction. Anyways,

9:51

it is good to see you. And first of all,

9:54

tell people what you're doing now because it's

9:56

always fun to get updates. And you're doing a lot of

9:58

radio analyst work. Yes, so

10:00

in Detroit, I'm on an Odyssey station,

10:03

97.1 the ticket from 6 to 10

10:05

in the morning. I've got a new

10:07

co-host, Jim Costa, and another

10:09

host, Heather Park. We do obviously the morning

10:12

drive from 6 to 10 in the morning.

10:15

And then the rest of the day, I'm in

10:17

one of your favorite places, Ann Arbor, which

10:20

I do a podcast in the trenches, Conquering

10:22

Heroes, a number of them. They're M

10:24

Go Blue podcast with John Jansen. I'm

10:28

through the Michigan games on Saturdays, and

10:30

I do a lot of different things

10:32

in terms of media regarding

10:35

Michigan athletics. So

10:37

it keeps me busy, but probably my

10:39

number one job is right now

10:41

is trying to be dad, because

10:44

I've got one that is graduating high school, and

10:46

she's going off to, you'll appreciate this, she's not

10:48

going to either of our schools, she's going to

10:50

Purdue. And

10:52

so she's not going to be an engineer, or

10:54

an astronaut, she is going to nursing. And

10:58

then I've got four more along

11:00

the way, so just trying to be

11:02

dad and get to baseball, softball,

11:05

basketball, whatever other events are going

11:07

on. That's a

11:09

lot. And you have one who's, is

11:11

she deciding still between crew and basketball?

11:14

Yeah, so I've got a junior in

11:16

high school as well, who is being

11:19

recruited to row at college,

11:22

and Michigan's on the table. So

11:25

we'll see what goes there. I don't know, she's

11:27

got big dreams, so I don't know where she's going

11:30

to go, but yeah, she's being recruited for basketball as

11:32

well. So it's a busy time in the Jansen house.

11:34

I would say I would not probably go to Michigan

11:36

for rowing, because what I hear is after the soft

11:38

season, it's a sinking ship. So anyway. So

11:41

we need rowers. Well, here you go. So

11:43

anyways, so I want to get into, you

11:45

know, JJ in a few minutes, because that's

11:47

what I want to have you on. So,

11:49

really, even as on

11:52

this side of the aisle, the kids

11:54

got some talent and some things that are going

11:56

to, that are very intriguing to NFL teams. But

11:59

I do want to talk to you. you played offensive line

12:01

and you know like this team

12:04

has struggled with the line the last few years first

12:07

of all what's the key to having a good

12:09

offensive line you were a part of a few.

12:12

Yeah it's it's really about how can those

12:15

five guys perform as one and they've got

12:17

to be on the same page and it's

12:19

not it doesn't have to be rocket science

12:21

and when I was there was Corey Ramer,

12:24

Casey Robock at center we had a couple

12:26

other guys but that's really

12:28

where that communication being able to

12:30

connect the left and the right

12:32

side together to make sure everybody

12:35

sees in the run game hey

12:37

are you going to the right linebacker you making

12:39

that right declaration you got the right combination blocks

12:42

because assignment if you don't know where you're

12:44

going or what you're doing then you

12:46

could play with the greatest technique in the world but if you're

12:49

doing the wrong thing it doesn't really matter and

12:52

so then in pass protection obviously especially

12:54

if you're gonna have a young quarterback

12:57

you've got to know exactly your

12:59

five guys and when

13:01

they bring five or they bring six

13:03

okay who is it that we are

13:05

blocking and the quarterback has to

13:07

know that the running backs the receivers everybody has

13:09

to know that because if they bring one more

13:12

guy then the quarterback is throwing hot

13:14

off of that receiver or the running back has to

13:16

pick them up or a tight end or whoever and

13:19

you've got to be able to operate as

13:21

one and during a game you

13:24

can't always make those calls so that some

13:26

of the communication has to be nonverbal and

13:28

you say well how is that possible when

13:30

your hand is in the dirt or on

13:33

the turf and you

13:35

know you you can't see everything that's going on

13:37

in the other side well as a

13:39

right tackle which I was in Washington I

13:42

know through film study what

13:45

I see on my side of the line I

13:47

can with almost a 99% certainty know what's going

13:50

on on the other side and it's about

13:53

repetition it's about doing it so many times

13:55

that I know what Chris Samuels was going to

13:58

be doing or Andy Heck was going to be

14:00

doing without even being able to communicate

14:02

what I'm doing on my side. It's

14:04

the view, it's the end, that's where

14:06

when you have injuries you've got

14:09

to have those guys that are coming in

14:11

at a guard position or a center position

14:13

on the exact same page and it's meetings.

14:15

It's just a matter of putting the time

14:18

in together so that you know what's going

14:20

on before it even happens. So

14:22

you were part of a good line and up

14:24

in Detroit you're watching a good all really good

14:26

offensive line up there too. So if you're constructing

14:29

a line how do you build a

14:31

good line because I've seen teams that take

14:33

guys high and they still don't do well.

14:35

I've seen other teams that take a different

14:37

approach I mean so how would you construct

14:39

a good offensive line? The three

14:41

most important positions are your center and your two

14:44

tackles and then you

14:46

can fit in different guards that

14:48

you know and obviously you want to have

14:50

a great player at every position but with

14:52

the salary cap and with injuries that's not

14:55

always possible so I want to

14:57

know that going into a season I've

14:59

got a center that is on the same

15:01

page as my quarterback, the same page as

15:03

the coordinator and obviously the same page as

15:05

the tackles. He's got to be a guy

15:07

that is number one smart, plays with

15:10

good pad level and there's nothing

15:12

more important than the center quarterback exchange. He's

15:14

got to be reliable whether it's under center

15:16

or in the shotgun and then he's

15:18

got to be a good communicator. He's got to be

15:20

able to think under pressure, make

15:23

last-second declarations and calls

15:26

and be able to you know shift on

15:28

the fly and then you've got to have

15:30

two tackles that have some length you know

15:32

have that the aggressive nature you got to

15:35

be and I because I think football you

15:37

can't be a passive individual and

15:39

play the game of football you've got to have a violent streak

15:41

you got to have the want to

15:44

be able to be in the mix like

15:46

that so if you can protect the

15:48

the edges and the width of your pocket

15:51

which is what the tackles responsibility is to

15:53

do and then you've got a center that's

15:55

putting everybody on the right page who is

15:57

going to help both of those guards protect

15:59

the Democrats. to the pocket, now all

16:01

of a sudden that you've got a functional

16:03

offensive line. Now it goes to do

16:06

you have the right personnel to have a

16:08

dominant right tackle like we do in Detroit

16:10

with Penne Sewell? Right. Even

16:13

though his upbringing wasn't great, Taylor

16:16

Decker is a serviceable left

16:18

tackle. And we've been able to

16:20

salvage and coach him up since he didn't get any

16:22

of that in college. Alright,

16:26

there we go. Go Bucks.

16:29

Anyways, so now you just threw me

16:31

for a loop there. Anyway, but when

16:33

you look at it too because you

16:35

were able to step right in and play as

16:38

a second round pick, why do

16:40

you think you, I know what your first

16:42

line is going to be, why are you able to step

16:44

right in and play, but what qualities allow

16:47

someone to do that? Well,

16:50

so I'll avoid the Michigan

16:52

reference, but I will say this, alright,

16:54

Big Ten offensive linemen, they

16:57

are as prepared as anyone coming into

16:59

the league to be able to step

17:01

in and play. And you could

17:03

say that about some of the SEC schools and some

17:05

big 12 schools. I mean, everything's

17:07

gotten weird with conference expansion, but, and

17:10

the style of play in college,

17:13

it used to be that you would come into the

17:15

NFL and everybody could run block, but

17:18

then they would coach you up on pass blocking. Well

17:20

now you have guys coming into the

17:22

league that have never been in the three points stance

17:24

or rarely been in the three points stance. They're great

17:26

at pass protecting, which is what you have to be

17:28

able to be good at now in the NFL, but

17:31

then they're teaching them to run block. And that's, it

17:34

seems so foreign to me, but that's the style of

17:36

play now. But I was able

17:38

to come into play because, and so

17:40

I'm going to go down that road as well. Of

17:42

course. Michigan, when I

17:45

played Iowa, I was playing against Jared DeVries,

17:47

who was also a second round pick. And

17:49

I was playing against Anthony Heron. I was

17:52

playing against, you know, Fincus and Fribal and,

17:54

and those guys that were, you know, we're

17:56

in those ugly colors down in Columbus, you

17:58

playing against NFL talent. So then translate

18:00

that, you may not come in

18:02

as a rookie and ultimately be

18:05

the player that you are going to

18:07

be or need to be, but you're

18:09

coming in, having the experience

18:11

of playing against NFL talent.

18:14

So if you're looking at the draft, because like Washington

18:17

needs at least one tackle and

18:19

you can make an argument they need two, hard

18:22

to get to in one draft. But if you're looking

18:25

at that, like, are there guys that may, I don't

18:27

know how much you've looked at this draft, are there

18:29

any tackles that you really like in this draft? Have

18:31

you even, do you pay attention to the tackles in

18:33

this draft? Have you done a lot of work on

18:35

that? I do and obviously,

18:37

I mean, the number one tackle in

18:39

this draft is Joe Alt out of Notre Dame. He's

18:42

a guy that comes in and he has the

18:44

pedigree to do it. He understands what

18:47

it's gonna take to be able to be successful in

18:49

the NFL. And I

18:51

did see a guy out at, for

18:53

Washington and I butcher his name

18:55

every time, but it's Fouthenou. And

18:58

a guy that I think plays with really

19:00

good technique. And

19:03

some questions about his size, but I like

19:06

his mentality. He plays with the mean streak

19:08

and I think he could be a guy

19:10

that is very productive

19:12

in the NFL. J.C.

19:15

Latham out of Alabama is another guy

19:17

that I think could be very productive.

19:19

The problem that you run into is,

19:22

all right, these are all guys that, and I

19:24

know Washington's picking second right now, that

19:28

if you're not gonna take a franchise quarterback

19:30

at two, a tackle would

19:32

be the next logical destination

19:35

or logical pick

19:38

in terms of positional value. But if

19:40

you need two of them, now you're

19:42

gonna be drafted either second or third

19:44

round. And this is a very deep

19:46

group of tackles and

19:49

offensive linemen in this draft. So you can get

19:51

some quality players, but the further you go down

19:54

the list, the more flaws everybody's gonna

19:56

have and it just may take some more

19:58

time to develop. How

20:02

much does coaching

20:08

impact a wide set? Anybody,

20:14

you know, scheme or whatever? So

20:17

scheme is at least a large part. There's guys

20:19

that have different skill sets that

20:22

fit better in certain offenses. And I was

20:24

a guy coming into North Turner's offense. It

20:26

was a play action offense. It was a

20:28

run heavy offense for Michigan that I played

20:30

for. It was a play action offense. So

20:32

it was an easy fit for me. And

20:35

so for my first two years, I ran almost an

20:37

exact replica of offense that I ran in college.

20:43

And if you can find some of those guys that run

20:45

a similar offense to what you're going to run this year,

20:47

it makes that transition

20:49

a little bit easier because the skills, the techniques,

20:51

all of those things are there. Obviously,

20:54

terminology is very different. But it's more

20:56

important that you have the right person

20:58

as your offensive line coach. When I

21:00

came in, it was Russ Grimm.

21:03

And I mean, everybody in Washington loves Russ Grimm.

21:05

I love Russ Grimm. And he set me up

21:07

for success for the entirety of my career with,

21:10

one, his demeanor, his ability

21:13

to reach each individual player because everybody

21:15

in the NFL is coming from a

21:17

different school of thought and not

21:19

just different schools. But hey, maybe I

21:21

was taught a certain kick step and

21:24

somebody else was taught something

21:26

similar but in a different way. And

21:28

he really let us be

21:30

who we were. And

21:32

his whole concept was, if you're not getting

21:34

the job done, I'll coach you

21:37

up and we'll work on your technique. But

21:39

if you're getting the job done, I'm not

21:41

going to ruin something that's working. I can

21:43

help you with little tweaks to

21:45

your technique, which is what

21:47

he was so good at. But it really

21:50

starts with that offensive line. And when you

21:52

start talking about scheme, to

21:55

me, play action pass, that

21:57

is for a play action offense.

22:00

play action offense is one

22:02

that it's very easy to

22:04

transition from college to

22:06

the NFL because you're not going to be

22:08

setting on seven step drops all the time.

22:10

You're not going to be, and right now

22:12

there's some great edge rushers in the NFL.

22:15

Um, and there are some great edge rushers, Micah

22:17

Parsons in, in, in the division. So

22:19

you've got to find a way to one

22:22

pair that with giving your players

22:25

as much advantage as possible to keep

22:27

them out of some of those risky

22:29

situations. I just remember when Spurrier

22:31

was here, how he killed you guys. It

22:35

was, yeah, it was, I mean, you want to

22:37

talk about five man, it was, it was almost

22:39

straight five man protection. And if they brought six

22:41

or even seven. Quarterback

22:43

just had to get the ball out as

22:46

quickly as possible. And you just asked Patrick Ramsey, I

22:48

don't think he ever had a clean, uh, back of

22:50

his Jersey, I don't think he

22:52

recovered from some of those games. I like it

22:54

just for his career. I think that

22:57

just damaged him. No, no. And

22:59

I mean, I mean, you could hear the whole, you

23:01

know, the, the, the ear set. You could hear superior

23:03

on the sidelines and throw the ball. Okay.

23:08

They're coming from everywhere. I

23:11

also remember with Spurrier, cause you guys won a game

23:13

in Seattle where like Kenny Watson and I can't remember

23:15

who the other running back was both ran over a

23:17

hundred yards and you win like 14 to 10 or

23:20

14 to seven. And

23:22

he was upset after the game. And the next

23:24

week you guys are playing Jacksonville, which who couldn't

23:26

stop the run, but it was a homecoming for

23:28

him. And you guys threw the ball

23:30

like 50 times and it, when it was close.

23:33

Yeah. I've got so many Spurrier stories. You know who

23:35

that running back probably was? Who was the kid from

23:38

Iowa? I think it was number Dell. I think it

23:40

was number Dell. The might've been the Dell bet. Um,

23:43

great kid, great running back. Um,

23:45

and yeah, I mean, that was

23:47

probably after we, you know, Steven Davis, he

23:49

didn't fit Spurrier's offense. This is a guy that

23:51

was a record setting running back for,

23:54

for Washington in terms of touchdowns and

23:56

productivity, but he didn't fit Spurrier's

23:58

offense. So yeah, let's just. get rid of him. You

24:01

got a favorite Gibbs

24:03

story? Ah shoot, you

24:06

put me on the spot here. Yeah,

24:08

I mean you know if there

24:10

was ever a coach that that lived and breathed

24:14

football it was Joe Gibbs. I

24:16

mean he that whole staff would

24:18

sleep there overnight. Donbrough,

24:22

offensive coordinator, I mean there were

24:24

certain individuals and I won't name names that

24:27

literally had a baggy

24:29

next to the couch because

24:32

that's what they would end up you

24:34

know peeing into in the middle of the night

24:37

because they didn't want to get up. Sleep was

24:39

so hard to come by because they were they

24:41

were film warriors and when they had finally had

24:43

a chance to lay down on the couch they

24:46

didn't want to get up and and disturb the

24:48

slumber. I have not heard of the pee

24:50

bag before. Oh yeah oh yeah

24:52

and Coy was hilarious because Coy he

24:54

knew what was going on he would

24:57

he would go in there and he'd

24:59

poke a hole in the bottom of the bag and

25:02

so yeah they would they would do this and then all of a

25:04

sudden they wake up in the morning and the bag is empty. What

25:06

the? Coy

25:08

was hilarious. Danny Smith would tell some

25:11

great Donbrough stories and you

25:13

know just like with pizza on the top of the car

25:15

that gets blown off of the onto

25:17

the oh yeah making a calzone out

25:19

of it. Yeah exactly. The

25:22

other one was someone told me like one time because he

25:24

had the bro used to have

25:26

the the red replay flag in his

25:28

pocket and there was one time they wanted to

25:30

throw the flag but he had pants on that

25:32

had like really deep pockets and he kept throwing

25:34

items onto the field before

25:37

like his keys are on the

25:39

field there's like money on the

25:42

field. I'll give you a Danny Smith story.

25:44

Special team coaches are a breed all unto themselves.

25:46

They have to be because they're dealing with a

25:48

different breed in terms of kickers. So

25:51

he was is Extremely.

25:54

OCD. So You walk in and this

25:56

is when they had actual You know

25:58

you know whether. There was Vhs

26:00

tapes or whatever type the tapes they would put

26:02

in he would have him stacked in his office

26:05

or they would be all out of of they

26:07

were alphabetized or you know by date by number

26:09

where he had a certain system. So.

26:11

He that Albright I would on every once

26:13

in awhile we'd go in there and we

26:16

would either make it look like we moved

26:18

one. Or we would actually move

26:20

one, but we had to make it look

26:22

like you know there was evidence that one

26:24

had been moon so he would spend the

26:26

next week. Taking. Out every single

26:28

one, try to find that one that we

26:30

moved and then putting them all back in

26:32

to where he had the you know is

26:34

in all label and organized. That

26:36

said, it was you guys Also, Gathered

26:39

torment bread com way to. Well.

26:43

I mean if he's a kicker, those

26:45

are used it. Kickers are easy to

26:47

torment, but he got hit with you

26:49

in court. Said that is that You

26:51

guys that yes or the story is

26:53

about story, the facts of the matter

26:55

or we were playing in San Francisco.

26:57

Ah, and we won the division. Either

26:59

are my rookie season. And

27:01

Larry centers caught a nice pass the to

27:03

seal the victory. Ah and I mean I

27:05

got stories that that to just one would

27:07

lead to another. but while trying to stay

27:09

focused on on bread conway and so bread

27:11

and which I don't know how Tickers ever

27:13

did or didn't do anything but all the

27:15

okay babe apparently had a a tweet back

27:18

or something it is had taken something for

27:20

his back and we were celebrating on the

27:22

way back. when you used to be able

27:24

to have. In. A rider and and

27:26

other forms of alcohol on the plane. It's

27:28

a five hour, six hour ride back from

27:30

San Francisco to D C and. Ah,

27:33

He was the down with a couple of pops and.

27:35

Ah, Was in of. Sleeping.

27:38

In a heavy slumber. And so all

27:40

of us as we feel created our employees.

27:42

We stack them up on home and and

27:45

we drew on a sharpie on his face.

27:47

We had gotten some lipstick from one of

27:49

the stewardesses and and were drawn on of

27:51

and and I won't tell you. What?

27:53

It? Was. That. the

27:56

of there were some arrows pointed

27:58

to certain and old openings on

28:00

his face and different things

28:02

that were suggested that you could

28:04

put there. And so

28:06

he wakes up when we finally land and

28:09

all of a sudden he moves and all of the

28:11

beer and all of the bottles, all that stuff fall

28:13

off of him. He doesn't even

28:15

know what's going on. He goes home and his

28:17

significant other at the time meets him at the

28:19

door and just is like,

28:22

what the heck is going on? Because his face was

28:24

still all marked up. So about

28:26

a week or two later, he creates

28:29

this sign, puts it on the back of my truck.

28:32

And I just hop in my truck, taking Corey

28:34

home, he hops in the other side or we were

28:36

going hunting or something. And

28:39

on the back of my truck, it's this big sign

28:41

that says, I like big hairy men. And

28:44

there's a big hairy man sitting in the passenger

28:46

seat. That's

28:50

fantastic. And last one before I get

28:52

to JJ, I know

28:54

Zorn was not the easiest one for you,

28:56

but I don't even

28:59

know how to describe him. There

29:01

was a lot of difficulties

29:04

in my time in Washington and I mean

29:07

six different head coaches in 10 years and

29:09

Gibbs was there for four of them. So

29:12

I think everybody remembers those years and

29:14

the churning of the coaches. Marty Schottenheimer

29:16

loved Marty. And I wish

29:18

that we would have had an opportunity. Remember how we ended that

29:21

year? The Adam 11 started

29:23

0 and 5 and then we ended up

29:25

8 and 8 and we were really

29:27

poised, I felt, to make a nice run

29:29

the following years. And he had done a

29:31

lot to try and manage the cap, manage

29:34

the draft picks and put us back in

29:36

a good position. But I think Zorn was

29:38

just out of his element. He was

29:41

originally hired for Washington historians

29:45

as the offensive coordinator before we had a

29:47

head coach. And then

29:49

Mr. Snyder was, let's go hire

29:51

the head coach. Well, who wants to

29:53

be come in as a head

29:55

coach and you're inheriting an offensive coordinator? It

29:57

just didn't, it was all out of sorts.

30:00

And so he was then promoted the head coach and

30:02

and I just think he was out of his element

30:05

He was and then you know Also,

30:07

I think for a couple decades. I think people

30:10

feel good now because Dan Snyder is no longer

30:12

in charge Could you tell like

30:14

just how bad you know? Do

30:16

you know what kind of an owner is you were here a long

30:18

time? Well, so it's difficult for

30:21

me Yes, it's it's it was a

30:23

challenging time. It wasn't a productive time

30:25

in Washington But in

30:27

regards to my personal interactions

30:30

with with mr. Snyder When

30:32

I tore my Achilles He

30:35

did everything that he possibly could to give

30:37

me the best medical care And a lot

30:39

of this was dictated by the Union and

30:41

and and that but you know a ride

30:44

on his Private

30:46

jet to to get me back from

30:48

the Hall of Fame game to DC

30:50

to be able to go down and

30:52

and have the best Available medical care

30:55

throughout the entire process and then the same

30:57

thing when I dislocated my ankle and broke my

30:59

leg You know, he

31:01

always treated me with the utmost

31:03

respect And my

31:06

family as well. So I I

31:08

take that into consideration

31:10

with Again,

31:12

I just probably out of his element just like

31:14

Zorm was right was was a good coordinator to

31:16

good play caller But not a great head coach

31:19

I think that there were certain aspects

31:22

that Dan did really well, but

31:24

there were all us also other things I mean had no

31:26

patience and when you turn six

31:28

coaches over in ten years and that didn't stop

31:30

after I left and And

31:34

you wear out the fan base to where when

31:36

I got there there was some ridiculous wait list

31:38

on season tickets like 20

31:40

or 30 thousand people deep and it was it

31:43

was the spot on the wait list was one that was

31:45

handed down When people literally

31:47

died their kids were put in position

31:50

To inherit that spot on the wait list and

31:53

then to think you know what two years ago

31:56

They there were more Eagles fans Giants

31:58

fans Dallas fans in the city stadium than

32:00

there were Washington fans, that

32:02

was really hard to see. It

32:05

wasn't you know it's funny because like I

32:07

know a couple years ago like they were ten like hey

32:09

you know we quadrupled our season

32:11

ticket base I'm like well what was it at

32:13

and they don't want to say because it was

32:15

so low. So but anyways let's get to now

32:17

so I want to talk to you about JJ

32:19

too because JJ is you know I don't know

32:21

how firmly he'd be in play for the second

32:23

pick I don't know that but he's a

32:26

guy of interest because he's you know as we record

32:28

this he's visiting in Washington. So

32:31

he's clearly on a list of interests. What

32:33

do you think about him as a quarterback because he

32:36

seems to be a guy you know there's not a

32:38

lot that he was able to show but he showed

32:40

things. So what do you think about him? So

32:43

my evaluation of JJ

32:45

is I think he has a tremendous

32:47

upside and and I could say

32:49

this about a lot of the quarterbacks coming out

32:51

and I would say this about every single quarterback

32:54

no rookie quarterback should start in the

32:56

NFL and and I know that your

32:59

guy went to Houston and had a

33:01

tremendous rookie season. That is not the

33:03

norm. That is that is

33:06

a tremendous quarterback in a system

33:08

that was built to make sure

33:10

that he could find success but

33:13

rookie quarterbacks really struggled in the NFL because

33:15

the game is so different than it is

33:17

at the college level and why

33:19

I think he has huge upside is

33:23

he's a guy that's going to be

33:25

a student of the game. He wants

33:27

to master his craft whether it's his

33:29

throwing ability his technique under center and

33:31

he has taken snaps under center which

33:33

a lot of these quarterbacks coming out

33:35

have not done. He's he's really

33:37

cool and calm under pressure. He

33:40

does a good job of escape in the pocket.

33:42

He's got a good athletic ability but

33:44

it's it's that drive to win.

33:46

It's that drive that my

33:49

stats aren't what's important to me.

33:51

The only stat that's important is the wind and he

33:53

proved that at Michigan you know he could have gone

33:55

to a lot of different places could have transferred from

33:58

Michigan to anywhere else. and

34:00

Ben a more prolific passer but

34:03

he he wanted to win at

34:05

Michigan and he wanted to

34:08

win the way that Jim Harbaugh was going to

34:10

call the offense and that was heavy run so

34:13

there's a lot of mystery about

34:15

what JJ could be as a passer but I

34:17

will say this when you look at his numbers

34:20

and what he did in college

34:22

the 21 season he

34:24

was a guy that would come in for Cade

34:26

MacDamara and he was the mobile

34:28

quarterback where Cade was the guy that was in

34:30

there to be the passer and

34:32

then when he finally got the head job

34:34

the number he QB won in 22 he

34:37

came in

34:40

and was a game manager didn't ask him

34:42

to do a lot in the past game

34:44

it was you know Blake Horm and Donovan

34:47

Edwards out of the backfield behind a

34:49

good offensive line and you know his his

34:51

completion percentage was right around 64 65 and then

34:55

in his junior year last year they

34:58

asked him to do a little bit more

35:00

still not what we've seen from some of

35:02

these other quarterbacks but his

35:04

accuracy improved and his ability to

35:07

operate the offense one of the

35:09

best things I think he does

35:11

in not to bring

35:13

up bad memories but here's an example the

35:15

Ohio State I've already had enough therapy I'm

35:17

okay okay all right so in

35:19

the Ohio State game there were a couple

35:21

of fourth down situations where you

35:24

know a quarterback's job number one

35:26

is to make sure that you're

35:28

in the right play the best

35:30

play possible and all season long

35:33

they've you know we've got the Ohio State periods

35:35

and they're working on different things throughout the course

35:37

of the year and then obviously in that week

35:39

of game preparation they had a

35:41

certain play that was called with formation and movement

35:43

and they knew the tendency

35:45

for Ohio State was when they

35:47

put Roman Wilson in motion that

35:50

they weren't going to be in

35:52

man coverage in this certain formation of

35:54

personnel group that they were going

35:57

to keep and just roll the safeties over

35:59

well in this situation, which had never

36:01

happened before, they were in man

36:03

coverage and they moved the safety or they moved

36:05

the corner over that was covering Roman Wilson. So

36:08

he quickly audible to the

36:10

right call, handed the ball off to Blake

36:12

Corum and they go for a first down.

36:14

Now a little bit later in the game,

36:16

same situation occurs and he's not sure what's

36:18

gonna happen. They put Roman Wilson in motion

36:21

and all of a sudden they just roll

36:23

the safeties over so he's able to run

36:25

the play that was called. My point is

36:27

he is going

36:29

to study the offense and

36:31

know as much as he possibly can about

36:33

it. He's also going to study the

36:35

opponents in the defense and know what

36:38

is the best play to be in. He

36:40

can make those adjustments on the fly and

36:42

make sure and that's so important in the

36:44

NFL because defenses are going to be so

36:46

much more sophisticated at the

36:49

next level. Sure and you know and

36:51

I guess for his transfer and he would have

36:53

had to have wanted Connor to transfer as well

36:55

so you know. Listen,

37:02

I gotta get a dig in somewhere man you know

37:04

that. I know. I will say like going back to

37:06

him though some of the things that stood out to

37:08

me is you and you know it's funny

37:10

because people here like always just like Alex Smith and

37:12

that's not a negative thing like Alex Smith when he

37:14

was good was what they're talking

37:16

about was really good. But some of the other

37:19

things is the competitiveness and again whether or not

37:21

he's a second pick worthy of that that's

37:24

a different debate but just as a you know

37:26

like I'm watching the Blake Quorum run down the

37:28

sidelines and who is right there

37:30

with them 30 yards down the field throwing

37:33

blocks like you don't see quarterbacks now

37:35

I would say this like Jayden Daniels

37:37

I see competitiveness in him and Drake

37:39

May whatever but for JJ that's one

37:41

of the things that he also showed.

37:44

Well yeah and that's that's the traits of a

37:46

winner you know everybody wants to know what is

37:48

the it factor and you know

37:50

what made the Tom Brady great and

37:53

and what made you know

37:55

Peyton Manning great it was and because

37:57

they're they're similar quarterbacks but they're different.

37:59

from the quarterbacks now. So that formula

38:01

is always gonna be a little bit different.

38:04

It's always a moving target. But when

38:06

you see things like a guy that's running down

38:08

the field to throw a block for Blake Quorum,

38:11

and you look at the stats and you say,

38:13

well, the stats don't jump off the page. Or

38:15

you take a game like the Penn State game

38:17

this year where after, you

38:19

know, what, six minutes into the second

38:21

quarter, Michigan never throws another pass. Well,

38:24

he knew that that was the best

38:26

formula because we couldn't block Chop Robinson

38:28

or Aditha Isaac. He

38:30

knew that that was gonna be the best

38:32

game plan, the best path to victory. And

38:35

that's what you need. If you're gonna win

38:37

a national championship, you're gonna win a big

38:39

10 championship, you're gonna win a Super Bowl,

38:41

you've gotta have a selfless quarterback that knows,

38:44

my numbers might not be what I want

38:46

them to be or, you know, how do

38:48

they stack up against Caleb Williams or Drake

38:50

May, but his win total

38:52

is the only thing that matters. And ultimately in

38:54

the NFL, that's the only thing that matters. It's

38:57

the only thing that keeps jobs and it's the

38:59

only thing that keeps quarterbacks employed. How

39:01

is, as a passer, how did you see him develop?

39:03

Because that's obviously gonna be a huge part of this.

39:05

So, you know, even in the Ohio State game, he

39:07

had the one tight window of throw that

39:10

should have been ruled an interception but

39:12

was wrongly not overturned. Right,

39:14

right. It was a good throw. It was a good throw. It's

39:16

a very tight window of throw. And that, but that was like,

39:19

you know, so how did you see him develop as a passer?

39:21

So this past year, the years before, when

39:24

I would see him throw, he wasn't, he's

39:28

not the gunslinger where, you know,

39:30

he thinks he can fit the ball into

39:32

every single, you know, little window or crevice.

39:36

And there were times where I thought he could have

39:38

thrown the ball and didn't. And

39:41

then I saw his confidence this past year where

39:43

he's making tight throws, where Kurt Campbell, the quarterback

39:45

coach, just tell him, hey, when this happens, and

39:47

if you're gonna try and hit Roman Wilson on

39:50

the seam, you've got to throw it right outside

39:52

the ear hole of that linebacker that's dropping into

39:54

coverage. As soon as that linebacker turns his head,

39:56

you throw it past his ear hole, and then

39:58

it's up to the- the receiver to make that

40:00

catch. Same thing with the tight ends, Colston Lovell, and

40:03

there was a couple of those passes where he's got

40:05

to throw it just over the outstretched arm of

40:07

a jumping linebacker, but then drop it into

40:10

your tight end. Hitting wide

40:12

receivers in stride on the run. Roman

40:14

Wilson had a number of touchdowns this

40:17

year where if he's got a break

40:19

stride at all, he makes the catch,

40:22

but he's tackled as soon as the catch is made.

40:25

JJ was able to hit him in stride while

40:27

he's going. So he doesn't slow down. All he

40:29

does is reach up, the ball is right there

40:31

and he keeps on running and he runs for

40:33

a touchdown. Like that timing,

40:36

that accuracy, and

40:38

then the knowledge of what's going on in the secondary

40:41

is where I think he really made huge

40:43

jumps this year. And he had four interceptions.

40:46

Three of those came against Bowling Green,

40:48

another Ohio team. But

40:51

it was, that's where I

40:53

just don't think he was completely focused on

40:56

what he was doing, but it

40:58

did hyper focus him the rest of the

41:01

year because against Bowling Green, you can

41:03

make some of those mistakes and still get away with a

41:05

win. If you make those

41:07

mistakes against Ohio State or against Penn

41:09

State or against Alabama and the Rose

41:12

Bowl, you're not going to win the game. And

41:15

I saw a quarterback make those mistakes

41:17

in that game and they lost. So

41:19

I'm well aware, exactly. But that's exactly

41:21

what that game is. So last

41:23

thing with him then, just

41:26

how do you see him developing as an

41:28

NFL quarterback? Like, and I don't

41:31

know if you want to compare him to Jayden or

41:33

Drake, but you don't have to, but I'm curious, like

41:35

what you think his ceiling is as an NFL quarterback?

41:39

I think he is, and I'm sure people

41:41

will get all up in arms about this.

41:44

I think there are very limited numbers.

41:46

In fact, there only might be one tier one

41:48

quarterback in the NFL and that's Patrick Mahomes and

41:50

you mentioned Alex Smith. Alex Smith

41:52

lost his job to the eventual best quarterback

41:54

in the league. Like, I mean, that's

41:56

that in and of itself, if he's going to be Alex

41:59

Smith, I'm fine with. because until Alex Smith

42:01

got hurt, he was a quarterback

42:03

I thought could take you to the NFL,

42:05

or to the Super Bowl. And I think

42:07

JJ eventually will develop into one

42:10

of those top tier two guys, where

42:13

you're going to have to have weapons around

42:15

him. Patrick Mahomes, I think you

42:17

could roll the ball out and you could put

42:19

just about anybody on the field and he's going

42:21

to find a way to win, just because of

42:24

his throwing ability, his arm, his awareness

42:26

in the game. But everybody else is

42:28

going to need a run game. They're

42:30

going to need receivers. You're going to

42:32

need an offensive line, a good tight

42:34

end. And if you put enough of

42:36

those pieces around JJ, he's going to flourish.

42:38

And he's going to be a guy that could take you,

42:40

win divisions, win, and

42:43

take you to the Super Bowl, then it's ultimately

42:45

up to the team to figure out what happens

42:47

at that point. But he's a guy that can

42:49

win a lot of games for you. And

42:51

then last thing, you brought up Chop Robinson. He's on

42:53

Washington's list as a guy, like they certainly liked. He

42:56

was in for a top 30 visit. What

43:00

did you think of him as a defensive end? Well,

43:03

if, do you guys only have

43:05

one first round pick? I haven't done a deep dive. One

43:07

first round pick and then two high second round picks. So

43:09

they have six in the top 100. So to

43:12

get him, you may have to go back into the

43:14

first round. But if he's sitting there

43:16

with their first second round pick, I could see

43:19

them taking a stab at him. Well, I

43:21

don't know that he's going to be there in the

43:23

second round. Doesn't make it past Detroit because,

43:26

okay, you know, he's a guy when

43:29

I talk about changing a game plan, when you have

43:31

to change a game plan because

43:33

of one individual, that's

43:35

a damn good football player. His ability to

43:37

get off the ball, he's as quick as

43:39

they come with those first two steps off

43:41

the ball. Now he's a little bit undersized.

43:43

I don't know how well he

43:45

will hold up against the run. And there's

43:48

different ways to scheme that and use these edge

43:50

guys, because we see it all the time, guys

43:52

that aren't great against the run, they still could

43:54

be three down players. But

43:57

for him And, you know, The

44:00

his star is gonna be on the ability

44:02

to get after the passer, especially if you

44:04

have somebody on the other side's that you

44:07

compare with them if you've got that one

44:09

two punch which is everybody is looking for.

44:12

I'm is he's a guy that if. If.

44:14

You're not focused on him and occasionally don't

44:17

do them. Help. Then. He's

44:19

going to get after the quarterback and he's gonna make you

44:21

pay for. It. I forgot I want Roman Wilson

44:23

of people told me to think is gonna be

44:25

better the Nfl they was in college. Was.

44:27

Gonna have more opportunity. Michigan wasn't an offense

44:30

that was gonna throw the ball are just

44:32

like we have questions about Jj and I

44:34

think Roman did a great job at the

44:36

senior Bowl of dispelling some of those miss.

44:38

His is a little bit of a smaller

44:40

guy so he is kind of a slot

44:42

receivers a number to set type of guy,

44:44

but he's got very reliable hands, runs really

44:46

good routes, ah, runs heart out of his

44:48

brakes and is a guy that can go

44:50

up and make some some. Acrobatic

44:53

catches. Dot. I

44:55

appreciate com and on I'm going to go and vomit

44:57

now so I but I side with a spotless up

44:59

as late as I was. Always listen I've I've talked

45:01

to Do it I miss, talk to do in the

45:03

locker but all that so it's good to see you

45:05

and thank you very much. A thanks

45:07

for having me add to it's all the

45:10

Was Did fans out there. I miss all

45:12

of you know I'm here in Detroit, but

45:14

there's still a special place in my heart

45:16

for whenever I get a chance to come

45:18

back to D. I appreciate the warm welcome.

45:20

I appreciate talk in the old school Redskins

45:23

football. Ah, so I want to say hi

45:25

to everybody over there as well, they may.

45:27

I appreciate. It. Thank. You. That's

45:32

it for this episode. Thanks to John for

45:34

joining the A. Thanks you as always between

45:36

it and on backwards another episode Monday Semester.