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0:34

Hello

0:44

and welcome to my podcast. Do me a

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favor, subscribe to the John Connor Report. Wherever

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hit that like button, hit that subscribe button.

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Empire Media. That's A-M-P-I-R-E. Always much appreciated when

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you tune in. And don't forget, you can

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read my work on espn.com. I have a

1:01

story up over the weekend, just about what

1:03

Dan Quinn looks for in a quarterback when

1:05

he's scouting them, what are the qualities that

1:07

he looks for. And he had some interesting

1:10

comments in there for me. So go give

1:12

that a read on espn.com. And I

1:14

will say after you're reading it, you're going to try and say,

1:16

well, who is this guy? And I think

1:18

you can apply a lot of what he likes to

1:20

a few of these quarterbacks in the draft, all of

1:22

whom are going to be, of course, in the options

1:24

at number two. So today I

1:27

am joined by former Washington Redskins tight

1:29

end Logan Paulson, as we discuss

1:31

the quarterbacks in the draft and much more,

1:34

because I want to get into the tackles

1:36

as well, because this team needs a tackle.

1:38

They're not finished building that offensive line yet.

1:40

So who are some options, whether it's trading

1:43

up into the first round or sticking that

1:45

in the second round, who are some guys

1:47

that Logan likes after studying this group? And

1:50

I guess I listen, this is this is an

1:52

draft for them, you could get a cornerstone

1:55

tackle and the end your franchise quarterback

1:57

in one draft. So this is a

1:59

huge. huge draft for them. So

2:01

let's talk about the tackles in addition to

2:03

the quarterbacks and we go over some things

2:05

like you know the big pressure to sack

2:07

ratio which has done all the rages, Aussies

2:10

and what does Logan think about that and

2:12

I know he's talked about that in his

2:14

podcast with Craig Hoffman the Take Command podcast

2:16

but also we did discuss it here and

2:18

some things that do matter. So good

2:20

in-depth conversation we talked about JJ McCarthy as

2:22

well and Drake May too. So there

2:25

you go and I'm gonna be having I know some of

2:27

you ask am I gonna have some people on to talk

2:29

about those other guys. I've put out feelers to

2:31

a number of people who are connected to each

2:33

of those quarterbacks and I do hope to have

2:35

them on soon. Both

2:38

guys and because I

2:40

think it's important to talk here what is somebody

2:42

closest person what do they think and it gives

2:44

them some deeper insight and yes they're gonna be

2:46

they're gonna have their own little bias toward it

2:48

just that's natural but you

2:51

can also learn about them through what

2:53

they've observed working with them or

2:55

watching them over the years. So hope to have

2:57

them on soon no guarantees but that's what I'm

2:59

hoping for and we got a

3:02

couple more weeks before the draft hoping to have

3:04

a few other really good analysts

3:06

on to talk about this as we get

3:08

closer and closer to see can we piece

3:10

this together and figure out who it's going

3:13

to be and once again if somebody's telling

3:15

you that they know they're alive. So

3:17

anyway that's it from me here's

3:20

my conversation with former Washington tight

3:22

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4:47

Alright Logan, we're gonna get to tackles in a minute. There's

4:50

some interesting guys there I think it'll be available either second

4:52

or trading to the first and I want to get your

4:54

thoughts on that and we're required by

4:56

law to start with quarterbacks. But until this is

4:59

figured and it's funny Logan because people keep asking

5:01

me like what do you think like they're

5:03

not telling anybody. Yeah. And it's also

5:05

hard because it's like what if

5:08

I don't know I'm just telling you what

5:10

I'm guessing based on

5:12

trying to what are other

5:14

people saying about these quarterbacks etc. So

5:18

when you look at this like where do

5:20

you think I keep hearing from people over

5:22

there like they're not settled completely on one

5:24

guy yet. Now so there's still

5:26

other parts of the process where do you think and

5:28

again this is just a guess where you think they're

5:30

at but where do you think they're at with it

5:32

and what how important will these

5:35

quarterback visits be to this

5:37

decision. Yeah I mean I think it's gonna

5:39

be very important because I think you know like they've

5:41

got probably five six guys in the draft this year

5:43

that are that could be NFL starters right so they

5:45

got to do a lot of evaluation and I think

5:48

when you think about it in terms of tiers it's

5:50

very very helpful in my opinion right. So obviously you

5:52

got Caleb Williams in tier one kind of by himself

5:54

hanging out then you have you know Jay Daniels Drake

5:56

May JJ McCarthy and I think when you look at

5:58

that group kind of is saying the but they're all

6:00

kind of the same. And I know people are going

6:02

to freak out about that. People who are Drake

6:05

May supporters, Jay and Dana supporters, Jay

6:08

Jay McCarthy supporters. But I think it's important to say,

6:10

each one of those players has their strengths and has

6:12

their weaknesses. And I think the staff right now is

6:14

trying to determine kind of the direction they want this

6:16

organization to go, because it's going to be a kind

6:19

of a transformative decision, much in the same way the

6:21

head coach is and the new ownership is and the

6:23

GM and all those decisions that have come before us.

6:25

This is the next cog in that wheel. So

6:28

they need to make sure that this is the right guide, that's

6:30

the right fit for their cultural identity. And that can be very,

6:32

very challenging. Cause I think when you look at the film, which

6:34

is, I think they all have, you know, pluses

6:36

and minuses to their film, you

6:39

can kind of make an argument as to why Jay

6:41

and Dana should be the guy, Drake May or Jay

6:43

Jay. And I think like that's something that's so important

6:45

for people to understand is that beauty's

6:48

in the eye of the beholder with these guys. And they're all

6:50

very talented. They all just bring different things to the table. And

6:53

again, it's up to the staff to kind of figure out the

6:55

direction ultimately they want to go with this decision. How

6:57

hard will it be? Because they, everyone wants

6:59

to say, we want to come to unanimous decision. Yeah.

7:02

With this group, will that

7:04

be hard? Because I think it's like, it

7:07

seems like I talked to you and you

7:09

know, I talked to others and it seems

7:11

like, well today I think this, today it's

7:13

this guy. Yeah. And I

7:15

think it just depends on who you've kind of watched

7:17

and been exposed to most recently. Like, you know, Drake

7:19

May is a guy that kind of,

7:21

he rips the ball in an NFL manner.

7:23

He makes NFL throws. He's got NFL big

7:25

time throws all over his tape. It

7:27

gets you excited watching him. And then there's

7:29

this kind of huge level of inconsistency, inconsistency

7:32

with them where you're like, man, I love

7:34

this, this element of what you do, but

7:36

can we get this other element corrected? So

7:38

in terms of ceiling, I think

7:40

you're looking at a really, really high ceiling

7:42

with Drake May, but I also have seen

7:44

guys in my evaluation recently that haven't been

7:47

able to correct, correct some of the small

7:49

technical stuff and never develop in the way

7:51

they want to. Right. Then you look at Jayden Daniels by

7:53

a point of comparison, you say, here's a guy that I

7:55

think has a very high floor because of his running ability,

7:57

because he's accurate, because he had a quick release. When

8:00

you watch LSU offense, it's

8:02

not overly complicated. He's taking a lot of

8:04

layups. He's turning down open throws. And again,

8:06

that's not a criticism of him. It's just

8:08

an observation more than anything. Can

8:10

he throw the football over the middle of the

8:13

field at a high level, not the way Drake

8:15

may can? And everyone talks about how important that

8:17

is. And I think it is important. I don't

8:19

see the same level of NFL throws. Now, if

8:21

you hunt and peck and watch every second of

8:23

film you can find on the Internet, you can

8:25

find those throws. You can see him reading defenses,

8:27

and you can see his processing. And so you

8:29

say, that's excellent stuff, but there's all these questions

8:31

with these guys. And so it really depends on,

8:33

like, I think, honestly, who do we like

8:36

the most as a person, and who do we think

8:38

can lead us the best as a person? And then

8:40

who do we think we can develop the most? And

8:42

is our system that we currently have in place best

8:45

established to kind of get that person

8:48

to where we think they can be and help them reach that ceiling?

8:50

I'm glad you brought up system, because one of the things I

8:52

wanted to ask you is, because you

8:54

hear a lot about, well, this guy fits

8:57

Cliff Kingsbury's offense. How important

8:59

should that be an evaluation? Because if

9:01

it all goes well, somebody else could be running

9:04

this show in two years. So how important should

9:06

that aspect be? And does

9:08

anybody not fit what they might want to

9:10

do? Well, that's the thing that

9:12

always kind of bugs me, specifically with the Cliff

9:15

thing, because I think Cliff has shown an ability,

9:17

and I talked about this on this show before,

9:19

an ability to kind of evolve his offensive perspective.

9:21

Like, when you watch 2021 tape of him in

9:24

Arizona, it looks more like Kyle

9:26

Shanahan than any air raid system I've ever

9:28

seen. You know, like it's got multiple tight

9:30

ends. They've got full backs, they've got shifts,

9:32

they've got motions. And again, I know that

9:34

Mina Kamsatistic about them having the lowest percentage

9:36

of motion when he first got to Arizona

9:39

is true. That's 100% right. But

9:41

he evolved over the course of that process

9:43

to help find ways to put his playmakers

9:45

in better positions. So I think one of

9:47

the things I'm excited for is I think

9:49

this staff is composed of guys who understand

9:51

how to work with running quarterbacks, they understand

9:53

how to work with pocket passers. They are

9:55

smart football people that are going to kind

9:57

of say, hey, Drake May can make these...

10:00

throws. Let's make sure the offense kind of fits that

10:02

we're going to use. We're going to, we're going to

10:04

run him in a very specific way, maybe the red

10:06

zone, short guard situations where we can steal first downs,

10:08

much like you would with Daniel Jones. I think Drake

10:11

made a much better talent than Daniel Jones, but use

10:13

his legs in that manner. Well, if Dayton Jamies is

10:15

here, you're going to make an offense. It looks more

10:17

like Philadelphia, probably a guy where like that's a cornerstone

10:20

of the offense. And if, and if JJ is involved,

10:22

it kind of looks like a mix of the both.

10:24

So I think that's where you're at is, is I

10:28

think, I think Dan Quinn, Adam Peters has done

10:30

a great job of assembling a staff that

10:32

I think can be flexible to the talent they

10:34

bring in. And I think that's a tenant of

10:36

Dan's philosophy that I think is so important for

10:38

fans to remember. He wants to build something that

10:40

maximizes what you do as a player. And so

10:42

if, if, if you take that off the table

10:44

and say, how does the quarterback fit the offense,

10:46

which I think is appropriate based on those, those,

10:48

that conversation we just had, it's important to remember

10:50

that now it's about who we, who we liked

10:52

the most and who we think we can develop.

10:54

And I think those questions are only answered

10:57

in that building by the guys on staff. Right.

10:59

And the other thing is too, I mean, because

11:01

we, a lot of talk about

11:04

Daniels in May and then JJ

11:06

is always like, you can't dismiss

11:08

him. So I'm just, and

11:10

I was talking to somebody who played in the

11:13

league and, you know, analyze this stuff. And he's

11:15

like, he there, he saw like things that Drake

11:17

or Jaden could do at, they

11:19

had some elite traits in

11:21

those areas. Did not think that

11:24

JJ had those same, they had an elite trait.

11:26

My thing, I was thinking about it after I

11:28

talked to this person, like, well, it

11:30

seems like some of those elite traits might be

11:32

some of those intangible as the Alex Smith type

11:35

of guy. Right. So, but I'm curious what you would think

11:38

of that. Yeah. And I think, you know,

11:40

I kind of, I would probably push back a little bit.

11:42

I think when you look at, you know, some of the

11:44

advanced metrics with ball velocity, with stuff that he did at

11:46

the combine, like at the combine, he had the

11:48

second strongest arm. He threw it the far, he threw it

11:50

the second farthest behind Joe Milton, who's got a mutant

11:53

freak arm. Right. So that's like in its own category.

11:55

And he had the highest miles per throw. So obviously

11:57

he can throw it. And when you watch the film

11:59

and when you I think when you watch

12:01

him throw in person, I think one of the

12:03

reasons like his prote kind of blew up is

12:05

because not everyone had seen him throw in person.

12:07

And when you see him throw in person, that

12:09

ball jumps out of his hand. So I

12:11

think he's got a much better arm than people think. I think

12:13

he's a better athlete than people think. But

12:15

also to your point, think that when you talk to

12:17

people around the league, the thing that comes up about

12:19

him is that he's a winner. And now I don't

12:22

put a ton of stock in that, but I think

12:24

there is something to taking a program that was always

12:26

kind of Ohio State's little brother and then helping flip

12:28

depth, script on its head. And people say, oh, he's

12:30

a passenger. There

12:33

are times when you watch those games specifically against Ohio

12:35

State or when they're in close games where he's got

12:37

to convert a big third and 10. They're backed up.

12:40

He's got to make some plays. And he's the guy that's

12:42

facilitating that offense. He's working that

12:44

NFL language. So I do think there's

12:46

a lot of stuff to like about JJ. And in some

12:48

ways, he feels kind of like the

12:50

safest of the three, you know, because he has

12:52

this exposure to NFL offenses and

12:55

these high pressure situations. And again, you know,

12:57

nobody's perfect. The throw volume is way down.

12:59

You don't see all the throws. It's not

13:01

layer throws. Well, struggle is thrown to his

13:03

left over strides to his left. So in

13:05

the same way, Drake may have a technical

13:07

issue. JJ has technical issues.

13:09

It's all there. It's just about what we feel

13:11

most comfortable with as a staff. So if you

13:14

and I, you know, coach GM, whatever we're talking

13:16

about, like we got to say, who can we who do

13:18

we think we can get there? Who do we like as

13:20

a leader? And if you're in, if those are the categories

13:22

that you're looking at, you know, like Jay

13:24

Daniels is notorious for having a tremendous work ethic. JJ

13:27

McCarthy, same thing. Drake may. So I think

13:29

they're all good kids. It really comes down to like who we

13:31

like as a person and who we think is going to fit

13:33

our building and our culture the best. Yeah. And

13:36

which I agree with. And thanks for bringing

13:38

up some painful memories as an Ohio State. But

13:42

the one thing I'll say with McCarthy

13:44

too, and like people bring up, I've

13:47

heard the Alex Smith comparison. I kind of

13:49

like that as much from a

13:51

standpoint of the confidence that he

13:53

provides those around him. Yeah. Because

13:56

I remember talking to Nick Sunberg a couple of

13:58

years ago and he's talking about what. game you

14:00

stay on the sidelines with Tress Way, I think

14:02

it may have been the Steelers game where they

14:04

came back in Pittsburgh, whatever. And he's

14:07

like, he told Tress, like, I still think we're

14:09

going to win this game. And he said, you

14:11

want to know why and Tress points to Alex

14:14

Smith. Like, that was the belief they had in

14:16

him. Like, there was just not that he's like,

14:18

he wasn't, he's not damn Marino or Elway or

14:20

Brady. But there was just a

14:23

belief that this guy can get it there.

14:25

And I wonder, like, what is the value

14:27

in that? And maybe all three have that.

14:29

But I think that McCarthy, it seems

14:32

like in hearing, listen to all the

14:34

Michigan stuff, people from there, that's what

14:36

they really, they trusted him. I

14:39

think I think that's right. And I think that's, I

14:42

think that's a great point. And it's something

14:44

that it's like always that kind

14:46

of intangible quarterback quality, right? This dynamic leader

14:48

that knows when to push and knows when

14:50

to kind of give you a hug and

14:53

all these different things. And it

14:55

sounds like he's had a great opportunity to cultivate

14:57

that skill set. And some of it is because

14:59

of his pedigree. I mean, he went to IMG

15:01

Academy, which is basically college football in high school.

15:03

And he goes to one of the biggest programs

15:05

in the country and win a national championship. Like,

15:07

there's something about it. You know what I mean?

15:09

That I think to your point is, is

15:12

infectious in terms of building confidence and elevating

15:14

and maximizing a roster. So, you know, I

15:16

think the Alex Smith comparison is nice from

15:18

that perspective, but I think he's a little

15:20

bit more talented. And I think that's something

15:22

that, again, when you watch his film, you

15:24

feel really, really confident about,

15:27

about some, some of that stuff that he brings, some

15:29

of that extra stuff. And again, he has his questions

15:31

like everybody else, but I don't think it's crazy that

15:33

now all of a sudden he's in the conversation as

15:35

a top 10, top 10 player in this draft, because

15:37

I think he throws the football. Well, I think he's

15:40

got a ton of NFL throws on tape. I think

15:42

he throws with tremendous confidence. And I think his arm

15:44

is better than people think. So yeah, you

15:46

know, it's funny because I talked to an

15:48

agent in January and does not represent him,

15:51

but knows the game very well, very well.

15:54

And he told me then he goes, JJ is going to

15:56

be one of those guys who are talking about, especially once

15:58

they get to meet him. And he doesn't. not

16:00

rep him, but he knows him well

16:02

enough and all that. So this

16:04

is not a surprise to me, but

16:06

now switching gears a little bit, the

16:08

big number, and you and I have

16:10

talked about this just on the phone

16:12

or whatever. I know you've talked about

16:14

it on your Take Command podcast with

16:16

Craig Hoffman, but a

16:18

little plug there, and I want to give you a plug in the middle

16:21

so it doesn't wait till the end so people are going to hear that.

16:23

The Command with Craig Hoffman and

16:25

Logan Paulson. Anyway, but the pressure

16:27

to sack ratio, like that's become

16:30

like, that is the

16:32

big, those three words, pressure

16:34

to sack ratio, those four words have become a

16:36

big thing. When I went back

16:38

and watched Jayden, I watched all of the sacks

16:41

and it didn't feel like there was a theme to it.

16:43

Like when Sam Hall, when you'd see that issue, there was

16:45

a theme to the holding the ball a lot. And there

16:47

were times where I could say, okay, I can see this.

16:49

I also think there are times where he knows with his

16:52

legs, he's going to run out of here and get 30

16:54

yards and sometimes he's going to lose three. But

16:56

I'm curious how you processed

16:59

that and

17:01

just how do you process that one and

17:03

is that a concern for you? Because I'll

17:05

be honest, like when I talk to teams,

17:07

I don't hear, they don't mention that phrase,

17:09

but they also don't say, I'm concerned about

17:11

how long he holds the ball, et cetera.

17:13

Yeah. I definitely don't see him holding

17:15

the ball for too long. Now, anytime you have a

17:17

running quarterback, you're going to take more sacks because he's

17:20

a playmaker back there. It's just like the catch 22

17:22

of having someone like that at the position. So is

17:25

it important? Absolutely. Is it something that I

17:27

think should make or break a quarterback evaluation?

17:29

No. Like I think a more important statistic is

17:31

that he's had one breakout season. You know, like when

17:33

you look at quarterbacks that have more been more successful

17:35

in recent history, it's they've had

17:37

multiple seasons of success in college here. He's

17:39

got this one kind of Heisman worthy breakout

17:42

season and that's a testament to his work

17:44

and LSU and all the playmakers they have

17:46

there. But I think there's a ton of

17:48

factors. Like it's, it's that

17:50

by itself should not hurt, hurt his evaluation. I don't

17:52

think, I think it's like he gets the ball out

17:54

of his hand quickly. He's got an extra release. I

17:56

also think when you watch the LSU offense, sometimes I'm

17:59

like, what's his answer? like does he

18:01

have an answer? You know, like we like I

18:03

was watching something last night. It was the Mississippi

18:05

State game and they're running like essentially like why

18:07

high cross. So like they're running like two posts

18:10

and they're running the wire cross and

18:12

it's blanketed. But there's no the back gets kind of

18:14

bogged down. There's nowhere to go with the ball

18:16

on a mic. There's no reasonable expectation

18:18

that he should be able to get the ball out

18:20

of his hand here. And so that's a sack that's

18:22

on scheme. And so like what is he being coached

18:24

to do? Like what's the like and

18:26

is that something that can be evolved throughout the

18:28

process? I think that's another thing that's important. Like

18:31

when you when these coaches get to talk to

18:33

these players, it's like, hey, man, what happened here?

18:35

And it's like, oh, you know, the back got

18:37

stuck. And if that answer is appropriate and it

18:39

has a schematic grounding, I think

18:41

you feel better about, hey, you know, some of these

18:43

sacks aren't his fault or he understands you've got to get the ball off his

18:45

hand. That's something we can work to

18:47

correct. Or you talk to his coaches and say,

18:49

oh, yeah, we were coaching them to really look

18:51

for the home run run in some of these

18:54

route concepts. And then you kind of feel better

18:56

about saying that that number now has some context

18:58

that. That that sack to

19:00

pressure ratio has some context that makes you say, oh,

19:02

maybe that's not as important. Now the context can go

19:04

the other way. But based on

19:06

conversations, much like you that I've been having with

19:08

people, I feel like there's the context seems to

19:10

be supporting that teams are okay with that

19:12

high number because there seems to be some type of justification

19:14

for it. Right. And there were definitely times

19:17

where I saw like, oh, you had this guy here or

19:19

here and you're going to have done it. But I also

19:21

like when I watch him, he goes through his progression. It's

19:23

not a matter of like one reading

19:25

and looking to go. So I think that

19:27

also modifies. And then you also have to

19:29

look, okay, well, he's facing SEC defenses versus

19:32

they did not have a great year against

19:35

lesser defenses. And so my

19:37

point in all that, it's not to knock

19:39

or raise. It's just like

19:41

everything gets muddled because it's

19:43

almost like you sometimes you start to overanalyze a

19:45

little bit. You have to look at everything. But

19:48

that's what I'm saying. It's

19:50

not always a direct apples to apples.

19:54

And I think 100%. I think that again,

19:56

we've talked about this on the

19:58

phone before. I think that's a good point. what

20:01

makes quarterbacks so tough is because like, sector pressure

20:03

ratio for one guy is a big deal and

20:05

sector pressure ratio for another guy is less significant.

20:07

And so I think you got to look at

20:10

that. And every player's got to have context. And

20:12

that's why quarterback evaluation is so challenging, because I

20:14

think people get overwhelmed with the

20:16

amount of information around the position and their

20:18

impact that they can have in terms of

20:21

getting some of this stuff corrected. And it

20:23

gets really like you said, it gets really

20:25

muddy very quickly in terms of the evaluation.

20:27

So I think that's a great point. And

20:30

again, but for me personally, the the sack

20:32

to pressure ratio for Jaden, I tend

20:35

to be okay with this, you know, I think you

20:37

brought up the same how comparison that was something I

20:40

think I remember talking about it last year, I was

20:42

really concerned about, and he never really got it fixed,

20:44

because it's hard to fix. But that was a very

20:46

different scenario. Correct. And, you know, so

20:48

I and I'm with you on that, it's it to me,

20:50

you take the number and you find out why and then

20:52

you don't see if it is an issue. Because if it

20:54

is, then it's something that you're going to have

20:57

to be kind of aware of. Right. What

20:59

about last thing on the quarterbacks? Would

21:02

you are you after looking at these guys, he

21:04

just like they've just got to stay at two

21:06

and take a guy? Or is there a because

21:08

my fear would be, if you trade

21:10

back, where do you trade to, in

21:13

order to stay up there to get the guy

21:15

you might want? So but are you just stay

21:17

at to take a guy? I think

21:19

so. At this point, I think, you know,

21:21

as as the draft gets closer, you know,

21:23

there's all these quarterback rumors about these are

21:25

the teams that need quarterbacks. And when you

21:27

look at it, there's a lot of blood

21:29

in the water, you know, Las Vegas, New

21:31

Orleans, Minnesota are all kind of circling that.

21:34

And I think, you know, there is a scenario where

21:36

you trade with Minnesota, if the packaging is right, and

21:38

then you then you would have to, in

21:41

turn, try to trade back up with the

21:43

Chargers, for example. And then you also have to be

21:45

okay with getting a third guy in that group, you

21:47

know, and I think that's something that I

21:50

don't know if the I don't know if the organization is going

21:52

to be okay with right because like if you if you're there,

21:54

you have a guy you love, take the

21:57

guy don't get overly complicated about it and

21:59

just and and live with it, you know, and

22:01

it's nice to kind of maximize draft cap on

22:03

all those types of things, but there will, there

22:05

would need to be a lot of gymnastics involved

22:07

with getting there and making that decision if you

22:09

trade back with Minnesota, trade back up, both have

22:11

to be willing participants and not wanting to miss

22:13

out on some of those blue chip players. And

22:16

it just seems like it gets a little bit risky,

22:18

especially if you have a very, very solid understanding

22:21

and feel for the guy that you love out of

22:23

those top three guys. And I do think I honestly

22:26

believe that like Joe mix and

22:28

Michael Penn, X Jr. can be good pros

22:30

in the right system. I think like if,

22:32

if, if, if both, if, if mix, mix

22:34

went to Minnesota, for example, I feel very

22:36

good about his ability to be consistent there

22:38

and same with Michael Penn X, but here

22:41

in Washington, I do think you need more

22:43

at the position because like the roster is

22:45

while improving still a little bit in flux. So

22:48

that's why when I people talk about it, I think

22:51

JJ McCarthy's coming into the NFL more

22:53

skilled than like a Brock Purdy, but

22:56

Brock Purdy went to a situation where he had a

22:58

lot of talent around him. And I don't know that

23:00

if he had come here as a seven

23:02

ground pick, would he, would we

23:05

have seen anything? Would we have seen just what

23:07

we saw with Sam? I don't know. And you

23:09

know, but, but I think like the roster is

23:11

a factor. Let's

23:15

go to the tackle position because that's what

23:17

everybody wants. Trade back, get a tackle and

23:19

then get the quarterback. Well, you can get

23:21

the quarterback and then get the tackle.

23:24

How deep do you think this class is?

23:27

And realistically, well, let's find out first of all, how,

23:29

cause everybody talks about how deep it is. How deep

23:31

do you think it is for

23:33

starting quality left tackles? For

23:36

left tackles, I think that changes the parameter a little bit.

23:38

I think there's only a couple of guys that kind of

23:40

fit that bill. I think for

23:42

tackle depth, I think you feel pretty good about it.

23:44

The only problem is like, I'd say there's probably 10

23:46

guys, 10, maybe 11 guys

23:49

that you feel pretty good about, right? If you

23:51

had to start them in, plug them in at

23:53

right or left tackle could come in and start

23:55

day one for you. The problem is like with

23:57

anything like this is kind of a weak draft

23:59

at corner. It's a weak draft at

24:01

linebacker. It's not an overly overpowering draft

24:04

at Ed rusher. So good

24:06

football players are going to get pushing the first round. And

24:08

so now all of a sudden you're talking about guys that

24:10

were kind of cemented as second round

24:12

picks in the first round at the tackle

24:14

position, because they're really good, you

24:16

know, so I think when you look at

24:18

the list, obviously you got the top guys,

24:21

the Joe Walsh, the Lisi Fuegwaga is all

24:23

those different guys, but it gets

24:25

really thin really quick. Cause you

24:27

got Olu Fushanu, JC Latham, Troy

24:29

Fotano, all probably top 15 players,

24:31

Amarius Mims. I would be

24:34

based on his number of games

24:36

played should be a second round player, but the

24:38

quality of this film is so good and his

24:40

measurables are so high. He's going to go top

24:42

25, probably top 20 actually. Then you go. Okay.

24:45

With all the eight starts. I mean, like, so

24:47

I know the talent is there. Like when you

24:49

watch his games and he's playing Alabama, he's playing

24:51

Ohio state. And he looks like he's, I

24:54

made this comparison that he looks like a high school, like, like

24:56

when you go to a high school game and there's a guy

24:58

going D1, they just look different

25:00

and they play differently. And that's what he looks

25:02

like. And that's with, again, some of the best

25:04

college players in the country. And so I, the

25:08

talent is just going to be too enticing. The physical

25:10

skillset is going to be too enticing because they don't,

25:12

you know, it's the size principle, right? It's like, there's

25:14

only a handful of guys on God's

25:16

Greener through look like this, like the Bill Parcells thing

25:18

you used to always say. So as much as I

25:20

would love it, if he was there in the second

25:22

round, I don't think there's any way, right? Tyler

25:25

Guyton is another guy that I think is an

25:27

absolute freak show. He bends well, he moves well.

25:29

He's six, eight. I think he's three 20. He,

25:32

like, he just moves like such an athletic human being,

25:34

but he's going to get pushed into the first round.

25:37

As much as you want to hope that he's there

25:39

at 36, it seems unlikely. Then

25:41

you got Jordan Morgan from Arizona, a guy that

25:43

I think is going to be a better guard

25:45

personally, but it's a very, but it's a very

25:47

good athlete. And I think, um, you probably feel

25:49

pretty good about him. Then you get into guys

25:51

that I think will be there at 36 for

25:54

Washington. Right. So one is Kingsley Sumitaya from

25:56

BYU. Kind of an athletic freak

25:58

show. He's raw, he's

26:00

a little bit developmental, I'd say, like

26:02

from a technical standpoint, but like the

26:04

frame, the size, the movement skills are

26:06

all there, the attitude is there. You

26:08

see him at the senior bowl against

26:10

some of the best college football players

26:12

in the country and he looks better

26:15

than everybody. So you feel pretty good about that.

26:17

Another guy is Patrick Paul, obviously Chris Paul's brother.

26:21

Again raw prospect. He's

26:24

a freak though. He's, I think he's 6'7", he's 335 pounds.

26:28

He has 36 inch arms. He

26:30

had the highest pass protection grade,

26:33

a top five pass protection grade based on

26:35

PFS metric. I think he's got

26:37

some technical issues that he needs to work through.

26:39

He's basically like so much bigger and stronger than

26:41

everybody. He gets away with poor pass pro technique.

26:44

So again, developmental prospect. Roger Rosengarner is a guy

26:46

that I think is a starting right

26:48

tackle tomorrow in the NFL, but I don't know if

26:50

he plays left, right? He's got 33 and

26:52

a half inch arms. He ran the

26:55

fastest 40 at the combine. He's got

26:57

electric movement skills and footwork, but I

27:00

don't know if he can play left. I don't

27:02

know if you feel comfortable than playing left. The

27:05

athleticism says yes, but a lot of guys have

27:07

a hard time making that transition transition, right? Kiri

27:09

Yamadiji from Yale, small school guy, good athlete, but

27:11

how do those small school guys project to the

27:14

next level is the question. Blake Fisher is another

27:16

guy. I think he's too stiff to play left

27:18

tackle, but I think the point I

27:20

went through all those names is because the top guys are

27:23

extremely exciting and guys that were probably second

27:25

round picks two months ago are now firmly

27:27

first round picks. And so you're dealing with

27:29

guys that have a little

27:31

bit of a question mark. Guys that I

27:33

don't know if I want starting day one,

27:35

like Kingsley, Suamataia, Patrick Paul, I think have

27:38

tremendous ceilings. But

27:40

if that, if I were to draft them, I would say, you know,

27:42

Cornelius Zukis, you're going to start the first five, six

27:44

games until that guy's ready. Then we're going to move

27:46

in. And same thing with Roger Rosengarner, a guy that

27:49

I'm very high on, but I don't think he's ready

27:51

day one to protect the rookie quarterback. And I think

27:53

that that becomes the issue there at 36 and 40.

27:57

Would you be comfortable with Cornelius? I mean, Cornelius has shown

27:59

he can start. those that kind

28:01

of stretch of games, would you be comfortable

28:03

with that if knowing what you have coming

28:05

in? Yeah, I think so. And

28:07

I think I basically like when you're

28:09

doing this, like one of the reasons

28:11

I think Cornelius Lucas was such a

28:14

significant signing because it does give you

28:16

this flexibility to kind of survive the

28:18

first four, five, six games while your

28:20

staff, while the offensive line, while the

28:22

offensive coordinator are developing this hyper athlete

28:24

guy, hyper athlete with tremendous tools and

28:26

that in kind

28:28

of waiting in the wings until he's ready to come in and make

28:30

things happen. I think it's showing that

28:33

I think you need a lot

28:35

of confidence in the developmental elements of your staff.

28:37

And Dan's had a good history of that. But

28:39

has he got the right people here to get

28:41

that done? I think remains to be seen. But

28:43

that's to me is the million dollar question is,

28:45

can you develop one of these guys into a

28:47

starting caliber player? If you can't do it in

28:49

the offseason, you have Cornelius here to kind of

28:51

say, Hey, I can hold down the fort until

28:53

this this young, this young studs ready to go.

28:55

So obviously, when whenever a rookie tackle goes in,

28:57

they're gonna have to learn things. How

29:00

much can be learned? Obviously, you got training camp, you

29:02

got the offseason stuff in those four,

29:04

five weeks, while you're developing

29:07

sitting, how much can you develop

29:09

to be so okay, now you're ready. And

29:12

I guess it depends on who's doing it. And I

29:14

know, like Dan Quinn is talking about, he really likes

29:16

Daniel Stapleton for that developmental stuff, the assistant online coach.

29:18

But what do you think? Yeah, I

29:21

mean, if you have the like,

29:23

so I remember watching Bill Callahan. And,

29:25

you know, people have mixed opinions about

29:27

him. And in his

29:29

time as a head coach, his time as an OC, I've

29:31

never seen a guy develop offensive lineman the way he did,

29:33

he just was able to kind of calcify

29:36

and harden them in a very short amount

29:38

of time and get really, really productive players,

29:40

I don't want to say almost overnight, but

29:42

you know, in that five or six week

29:44

period. And, and I think that is

29:46

the best I've ever seen do it. I think

29:49

it's very hard to get that done, especially given

29:51

the new offseason kind of constraints, like instead of

29:53

being able to practice and work kind of almost

29:56

live repetitions in OTA's and

29:58

minicamp, it's And I think

30:00

it's in some ways it's for the better, it's

30:03

for player safety, but it does stunt the

30:05

developmental aspects of some of these athletes. And

30:07

so it really puts a lot of emphasis

30:09

on, can we get this guy

30:11

ready in training camp and can we get him

30:13

in the preseason window, which is a very, very

30:16

tight space for people to get it done. Now,

30:18

if I'm going to bet on somebody, I think

30:20

betting on freak athletes to figure it out is

30:22

the right way to do it. So. Was

30:25

there a guy that you say, because they could always

30:27

trade up into the first round. Is

30:30

there a guy that you like, like for

30:32

them to do that and where do you

30:34

have an idea where that might have to

30:36

take place? Yeah. I mean, it's

30:38

tough at this point. I think just looking

30:40

at the talent, obviously the guys that the

30:42

two guys that I mentioned last, obviously like if

30:44

Troy Pitano were to slip somehow, he won't,

30:46

he's a top 15 player for me, the

30:48

guy from U-Dub, but if he were

30:50

to slide, you know, some, I don't

30:53

know, slide into that 20 range, I'd probably take

30:55

a look at doing that, it'd probably be too

30:57

expensive to do, but I'd look at that. The

30:59

other guys are a Mary Smith's and Tyler Guyton,

31:01

like they kind of are, I think there's risk

31:04

with both of them. And I'm kind of hoping

31:06

that the risk does push them down.

31:08

So instead of them going top

31:10

20, top 25, like I would

31:12

hypothesize, they kind of slid into that kind of

31:14

25 to 30 range. And

31:17

then that jump feels a little bit more reasonable.

31:19

And then you can kind of jump on that

31:22

opportunity. Cause I do think both those guys have

31:24

the size, speed, athletic qualities, the bend to play

31:26

left tackle. It would be a transition for both

31:28

of them. But I think when you're looking at

31:30

athletic upside, both those guys could probably get that

31:32

done. Well, cause I know a Guyton people talk

31:34

about his footwork being really, really good, which

31:37

is what you want as a left tackle. Well,

31:39

I think it's just, it's not even his technical footwork, it's

31:41

just his athleticism. Like when you

31:43

watch him move around, you're just like, that's a

31:46

guy who could make the transition. Same thing with

31:48

Mims, like, and Mims is, it's kind of because

31:50

he's so big. You get that done, he's just

31:52

got the length and the size profile to get

31:55

that done, but him, I think Kingsley, Suma tie

31:57

and Chris Paul or Patrick Paul could get that

31:59

done too. I think they're just at different stages

32:02

of development in their career, you know, like I

32:04

think they can all get there But you need

32:06

to make sure you have the right system in

32:08

place to make sure those guys develop How long

32:10

do you think those two sumitai and Paul would

32:12

take to again? This is a

32:15

hard question to answer because but like just watching

32:17

them How long do you think it would take

32:19

before they can work into being? Quality

32:21

of starting tackle might take a minute but to

32:23

being a leftist being able to go start So

32:27

those guys are why I kind of brought

32:29

up the Cornelius Lucas thing I think that's

32:31

why having him here makes this much more

32:33

much more palatable, right? Because I do think

32:35

those guys have a little bit longer runway

32:37

Like I mentioned some of Patrick Paul's past

32:40

pro deficiencies He might actually be closer than

32:42

Kingsley sumitai to that role But

32:44

I think Kingsley sumitai is just such a tremendous athlete

32:46

You probably want to bet on those traits and so

32:48

I think giving them, you know 12

32:51

weeks or you know with into the season like

32:53

and not not 12 weeks in the season the

32:55

training camp many Preseason

32:58

and then they'll kind of six weeks seven

33:00

week period where Cornelius Lucas is starting Might

33:03

give them enough time to get ready and then I

33:05

think with Guyton and a Mary smims It's

33:07

a very similar timetable, but you're probably looking at

33:09

maybe three weeks of Cornelius Lucas

33:12

Lucas starting in season I just think they're a

33:14

little bit closer a Mary smims specifically because of

33:16

the level of competition you played against but again

33:18

I That's a little bit of

33:20

a pipe dream. I don't think either one of those guys falls

33:22

to that level and you know Again, I also want to point

33:25

out like I you know, Rosen gardener

33:27

from UW I think has the footwork to

33:29

do it and it's pretty close to

33:31

getting it done It's just about whether you think his his

33:34

physicality matches that right because he's not the

33:36

biggest guy in the world. He's six

33:38

five He's three hundred three hundred

33:40

five pounds. He's got 33 inch arms Usually

33:43

those eyes don't make it a left tackle, but he's

33:45

such a tremendous athlete Maybe you feel like he can

33:47

get it done and I do feel like because of

33:50

how he plays the game He's a little bit closer

33:52

technically, but again the physical gap might be too much

33:54

again You need a little bit of a role my

33:56

frame as well. So and I bring

33:58

up stamp with him because again like Bobby Johnson,

34:01

the knock on him when you talk people up from New

34:03

York would be that he didn't develop a lot of those

34:06

guys for what I mean. That was fair or not, but

34:08

I think that's why I always bring up Stapleton because

34:10

I think it's good to have a guy on that

34:12

staff at the O-line who knows how to help in

34:14

that area. Let's go to tight ends too now. First

34:18

of all, how is this class

34:20

and you know what these guys have at

34:22

that position? Are you

34:24

looking to draft one? I

34:26

don't know if it becomes essential to draft

34:28

one anymore. I think it depends on where

34:30

Armani's rehab is at quite honestly. I think

34:32

you bring in Zacharys, I think you feel

34:34

pretty good about that. I think John Bates

34:36

is maybe the best blocking Y

34:39

in the NFL and I don't use that

34:41

term lightly. I really believe that when I

34:43

watch him technically, he's very proficient at that.

34:45

Then you've got some young developmental pieces and

34:48

it just depends on what you're trying to get

34:50

out of this draft class. I think obviously Brock

34:53

Bowers is the guy, Stavian Sanders, I'm probably not

34:55

as high on him as the rest of the

34:57

NFL because I think he fits a very specific

34:59

role. But it's

35:02

a little bit slim pickens after that. You

35:04

talk about Pio Johnson from Penn State, he's

35:06

a big athletic freak but didn't always play

35:08

to that athletic profile. Ben Sinat is a

35:10

guy, again I like his film a lot,

35:12

good football player to me. I

35:14

think he tested his way into being that kind of move F

35:17

piece. I always thought he was going to be more of

35:19

a fullback, more of a Kyle Usch check. But after

35:21

seeing him test, after seeing him at the senior ball,

35:23

maybe there's something more there. Again,

35:26

you've got to hunt and peck and find what

35:28

you want to fit here. I think that's why

35:30

this class is so tough. There's not this

35:33

stud or a group of studs like last year where there

35:35

was a lot of guys you felt like they were going

35:37

to come in and contribute right away. There's

35:39

a little bit of a development and a projection

35:41

element to this position that's a little bit more

35:43

extreme than in years past. You like Cade Stover?

35:46

I do like Cade Stover. The thing about Cade Stover

35:49

that I'm always on the fence about is

35:51

what kind of athlete is

35:53

he? I think he's got a tremendous physicality.

35:55

I think he's got kind of that football

35:58

playing ability, if that makes sense. You know,

36:00

like he's just a tough, converted linebacker. He's

36:02

willing to throw his hat in there, but

36:04

I don't know if he brings the pass

36:06

game upside to kind of warrant him

36:08

being anything more than like a rotational piece

36:11

for you moving forward. That's not

36:13

to say I don't like the player. It's just, what is

36:15

his projection in the next level? The other guys I just

36:17

mentioned have much higher athletic

36:19

ceilings and I think can potentially

36:21

be more, but I do think Cade Stover is a

36:24

heck of a football player. It just depends like what

36:26

is his role in an NFL roster. He's a little

36:28

undersized. So can he be a true Y? He's not

36:30

super fast. So can he be a true F? And

36:33

I find that those guys who don't have a clear, designated

36:36

role can have a challenging

36:38

time finding a home and

36:40

kind of sticking with NFL teams because NFL

36:42

teams view the position in such a traditional

36:45

way. What kind of

36:47

finishing up, I'd tell you, Cole Turner. What do you

36:50

think, what do you expect from him? We saw him

36:52

last year and it didn't seem like

36:54

he, well, what do you think? I don't care

36:56

about my opinion. Yeah, I think

36:58

this will be a really interesting opportunity to

37:00

see how the staff develops him. He's

37:03

a guy coming out of Nevada that I was

37:05

always a little bit on the fence about because

37:07

I wondered about his tightness, like

37:10

his hip tightness. It's made

37:12

it hard for him to become a proficient

37:14

blocker, right? But could he kind of develop

37:16

into a role that is becoming more common

37:18

in the NFL with kind of this big

37:20

slot where you're in a two point stance,

37:22

you're blocking safeties, you're blocking linebackers, you don't have

37:24

to be in the same kind of bent

37:26

position. He's sowed a tremendous amount

37:28

of physical courage two

37:30

years ago when they had him basically playing like

37:33

a move, full back piece. So that makes a

37:35

lot of sense. And San Francisco's got a lot

37:37

of miles out of Jennings up there kind of

37:39

making that role work for them. It's

37:41

an interesting role because you're essentially a tight end,

37:43

but the defense has to match you in nickel.

37:45

And so it gives you an advantage. Can he

37:48

be that player here potentially? Because I do think

37:50

he has some route running savvy. I also think

37:52

it's extremely important for him because he's not the

37:54

best separator to build a relationship

37:56

to the quarterback and say my superpower

37:58

is my arm length. and my catch radius

38:00

and I'm always open. So even though it might look

38:03

like I'm covered, still throw me the ball and I'm

38:05

gonna make you right. And I think that type of,

38:07

if that relationship can be cultivated, if that role can

38:09

be carved out for him, I definitely think there's an

38:11

opportunity for him to be a contributor to this team

38:15

more than we've seen over the last couple of years. By

38:17

the way, Dan Quinn loves that word superpower. So I can

38:19

tell you for him. He'll

38:21

bring up like, well, this guy's superpower

38:24

is this. So I asked him about

38:26

Drake May and he thought one of the

38:29

superpowers is the ability to escape and create

38:31

too. So, but anyway, let's finish up on

38:33

receivers. Last thing and just last, very

38:35

last thing, but is there a receiver that you

38:37

like in the second round? Cause there

38:39

are a couple of interesting guys there too, some

38:41

of whom have some speed or some size. So

38:43

is there a guy that you like that

38:46

maybe would help this offense and more? I

38:50

mean, I think the thing about receiving this year's class

38:52

is there's, I think I'm trying

38:54

to remember my exact number. It might've been 23

38:56

guys that I had with like third

38:58

round grade and up. So like, fine,

39:01

like I don't care where you pick somebody, you're

39:03

probably gonna find a good receiver, right? Just depends

39:05

on like stylistically what you're looking for, right? Obviously

39:08

like, I think lad McConkney is

39:10

a first round player, but Ricky Pearsall from Florida.

39:13

I mean, I love watching this film. I

39:15

just saw myself turning it on just for

39:17

fun, right? Cause he's got this tremendous short

39:19

area quickness. He's got this tremendous kind of

39:21

physical courage at the catch point. He's tough

39:23

in the run game. He's got yards after

39:25

catchability. Malakai Corley from Western

39:27

Kentucky is another guy that's tremendous

39:29

in terms of like, like

39:32

just toughness got that dog in him, right?

39:34

Xavier like, like the list goes on and

39:36

it's kind of stylistically what you're looking for.

39:38

Xavier gets this big guy. He's got this

39:41

raw horsepower, things like AJ Brown, DK Metcalf,

39:43

or you go like Roman Wilson, who's a

39:45

true speed player who can find mismatches there.

39:47

Jalen Polk from UW is

39:50

a second receiver there, but is a tough

39:52

son of a gun, competitive contested catch guy.

39:54

Talk about a big slot guy would kind

39:56

of fill that role for your. Jermaine Burton

39:58

from Alabama would probably... would be a first

40:01

round player without the character concerns, right? Jalen

40:04

McMillan, another guy from UW, is a taller kind

40:06

of angular player, 6'2", really

40:09

good understanding of how to create separation.

40:13

And that's the 15th guy on my board.

40:15

And I think you would come in and

40:17

contribute tomorrow to the commanders. And we haven't

40:19

even got the third round players. So I

40:21

think, to me, it's not even who you

40:23

like. It's what kind of player are

40:25

you looking for? Because there is a receiver in

40:27

this class that will fill that need for you

40:29

and make you a much better roster. And I

40:31

think that player, you could draft them in the

40:33

fourth round. So don't even worry about the second

40:35

round. I think promote tackles, edge rushers, corners in

40:37

that class. If you want their positions of value

40:39

there, because there are a ton of receivers that

40:41

are really good football players. And I was going

40:43

to say, too, because the edge rushers, there

40:45

is a sweet spot in that second round where you can

40:48

get a couple of guys. And if you want a corner,

40:50

which they still need one, then maybe there's

40:52

a guy that you're going to hunt up there and

40:54

wait till the later third or fourth round to

40:56

go get a receiver. So because they certainly have

40:59

a couple of guys that can play already. So

41:01

they're good there. Yeah, absolutely. And I

41:03

think that's the thing is like, the

41:05

thing about receivers, someone's like, oh, why not Keyon Coleman?

41:08

I like Keyon Coleman as much as the next

41:10

guy. But is his value that much different than

41:13

a guy like Johnny Wilson from Florida State also?

41:16

If you're looking for a guy to be a big slot that

41:18

could project to an extra receiver down the road, Johnny Wilson

41:21

is going to be there in the third round. And

41:23

I think he would fit that need at a higher

41:25

level. I think he has more route running nuance. I

41:27

guess that's what I'm saying. That's not a detract from

41:30

what Keyon Coleman does. That's kind of more to emphasize

41:32

that there's just a lot of dudes in

41:34

this class that are really good football players.

41:36

So I would say for all those receiver

41:38

heads out there, take a breath. Someone

41:40

will get drafted because there's so much talent at the position.

41:42

I think the other thing to consider is like, does

41:45

the staff really value one guy above everybody else?

41:47

That would be the one thing where like if,

41:49

for example, I have Ricky Piersa very

41:51

high on my board and I just love him so

41:53

much, I can't bypass the 40. That's a situation where

41:55

you might take a receiver. But that's a very specific

41:58

instance, obviously. Last thing, what

42:00

do you have coming up for the draft, whether

42:02

it's with the commanders, whether it's with the take

42:04

command podcast with Craig Hoffman? Yeah,

42:07

there you go with Craig, we got to get

42:09

Craig's plug in there. So I got the ticket

42:11

to the draft podcast, which is on the commander's

42:13

podcast network that comes out once a week. I've

42:16

got the command center show, which

42:18

is like our TV show that we do there.

42:21

We got the command center podcast, which is also

42:23

on there. That's me, Fred Santana. That's always just

42:25

a fun show to listen to because those guys

42:27

are crazy. And then the

42:30

take command podcast with Craig, which is I think

42:32

we've done a good job of creating good draft

42:34

insight and having some good guests on there. So

42:37

that's kind of my stuff that I'm doing.

42:39

And obviously Instagram Logan underscore Paulson82 just,

42:42

you know, in

42:44

the social media, right? Yeah, you know, like just talking

42:46

a lot in the microphone. So as you know, so

42:49

Listen, I tell people my job

42:51

is to talk about football for Lane. That's it.

42:55

Never work a day in your life. I mean, you know, obviously

42:57

I have to write, but you

42:59

know, there are some days I tell my wife like my

43:01

job today was to talk on the phone. I

43:06

mean, it's And I'm sure

43:08

you the thing I think I envy about you,

43:10

John, is you've been able to cultivate such fantastic

43:12

relationships in this. And so you just I'm always

43:15

amazed the stuff that you're able to know and

43:17

find out and people don't realize how lucky they

43:19

are to have you just giving like little hints

43:21

of information on this podcast and your article is

43:24

your right. So I mean, it's a

43:26

blessing to have you here. And I you know, like a

43:28

big resource for all of us. So well, I appreciate that.

43:30

And now I'm going to have my son cut that up

43:32

and just blast it all. Yeah, blast it on social media.

43:34

Let's make it happen. Well, I appreciate that, Logan, as

43:37

always.