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0:34

Hello

0:44

and welcome to my podcast. Do me a

0:46

favor, subscribe to the John Connery Report, wherever

0:48

you get your podcasts. You're watching on YouTube.

0:51

Hit that like button, hit that subscribe button.

0:53

You can find us there. This part of

0:55

Empire Media, that's A-M-P-I-R-E. Always much appreciated. When

0:57

you tune in, and don't forget, you can

0:59

read my work on espn.com. I

1:01

have a story now about how important this

1:04

draft is to the commanders. I think we all

1:06

know why, but it goes beyond the number two

1:08

pick. So give it a read and

1:10

go from there. Also, you private, you gold

1:12

members, I have the private Zoom Monday night,

1:14

7 30 Eastern time. Join

1:17

me there, bring your questions, and I'll send a

1:19

Q&A for you guys. And then it'll be available

1:21

to the rest of the members after that. Also,

1:24

in a minute, I'm going

1:26

to be joined by ESPN's Jeff Legwalt.

1:28

He released his top 100 list on Saturday. I wasn't

1:30

sure when I talked to him, I couldn't remember what

1:32

was coming out Saturday or Sunday, but it

1:35

was Saturday. So it's out there now. Go

1:37

give it a read on espn.com. It's always,

1:40

always, always an informative list. You may disagree

1:42

with it. And that's fine. Like the whole

1:44

point of scouting is there's a lot of

1:46

disagreements. If every scout had everything the same,

1:48

it'd be quite easy to go get guys.

1:51

There is a wide range of opinion on

1:53

many guys. And there are some guys, like

1:55

I told you, like there's some guys that

1:57

here, he could go 20th and His

2:00

range is 20 to 60. So it

2:02

just tells you like and it could be a

2:04

small variance that pushes them down on one team's

2:07

board Compared to another teams. They

2:09

may have them similar in terms of similar

2:11

stock or excuse me similar Talent

2:13

level, but maybe just a couple things might

2:15

bump them down on one board and keep

2:17

but keep them up on the other so

2:19

anyways, I always like having legging on I

2:22

think he's as informative as anybody out there

2:24

and You know,

2:26

I know a lot of people put a lot of

2:28

work into this I don't think anybody I it's be

2:30

hard pressed say anybody puts in more work than Jeff

2:32

leg walled on this because he talks

2:34

to A ton and ton a ton of people anyway

2:37

But so he's informed and you may disagree

2:39

with his opinions or his list and that's

2:41

okay Like the whole there's there's become this

2:43

thing that it's like nobody's allowed to disagree

2:45

with Maybe an opinion on a

2:47

guy and I personally like there might be a

2:49

guy you like But if

2:51

you can't see a good in some other guys then

2:54

I think you kind of need to revalue maybe how

2:56

you look at the game because a lot

2:58

especially with these quarterbacks they all

3:01

offer Something of value. That's

3:03

why they're being considered for the number

3:05

two pick also another programming note I

3:07

do hope to have some of

3:09

the beat reporters on this week to make

3:12

their first round pick And I

3:14

really hope we don't agree on the

3:16

same guy because I think it's more

3:18

interesting We don't because I think there's

3:20

a lot again. There's a lot to

3:22

like about each of these quarterbacks in

3:24

play and again That's Jane Daniels JJ

3:26

McCarthy and of course Drake may so

3:28

and how Washington sees it Well, we'll

3:30

find out on Thursday night only a few

3:32

more days. Thank goodness And

3:34

I did tell you the other day and I

3:37

still would say this like I am not assuming

3:39

that it goes That that

3:41

it's between Jane Daniels and Drake may

3:43

I think JJ McCarthy is very much

3:45

in the mix so but

3:47

you know, we'll see we'll see what happens

3:49

and so

3:51

I'm gonna have them on and then I'm also gonna have

3:53

a couple other things as we lead into the draft to

3:55

get You ready and thank goodness around

3:58

8 15 night

4:00

will all be put out of our misery

4:02

or 820 maybe it is something where somewhere

4:05

around there will be put out of our

4:07

misery and just move on and then see

4:09

whoever they draft can they make it

4:11

can they be the guy finally for

4:14

this franchise. Anyways it's

4:17

enough for me let's get some insight on all

4:20

this stuff and a lot of other picks in

4:22

this draft from ESPN's Jeff

4:24

Legwold. Hey

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6:21

One of the highlights for us every year is the

6:23

leg roll top 100 and that came

6:25

out Sunday and

6:28

Saturday morning. I'm sorry, Saturday morning. I'm

6:30

a little behind. Anyway,

6:34

always an interesting list. I do want to before we get

6:36

into some of the rankings and all that, what

6:39

is your methodology for compiling this list?

6:41

Because obviously your list is going to

6:43

be different than others, which I always

6:45

appreciate because people, it's funny because some

6:47

people want every list to look the

6:49

same, but you go to different

6:51

teams and their draft boards are going to look

6:53

dramatically different too. So what is your methodology in

6:55

compiling this list? Well,

6:59

I always tell people I was taught

7:01

by one of the greatest scouts of

7:03

all time, C.O. Bercato, the

7:06

late C.O. Bercato. They still do drills

7:09

that C.O. invented at the combine. He

7:13

is renowned in the scouting world that there's

7:15

an organization that has a

7:17

lifetime achievement award named for him in

7:21

scouting. So C.O. is the

7:23

guy who spent hours

7:25

and hours with me, essentially training

7:28

me as if I was a young

7:31

scout who had been sent out on the

7:33

road with him. So I

7:35

grade the players the

7:37

way C.O. taught me throughout the season.

7:39

I usually start in September and

7:43

go through throughout the season and then

7:46

really pick it up again before

7:49

the combine and the senior bowl up

7:52

to the draft. So the biggest portion

7:54

is my grades and then I will

7:56

talk to dozens and dozens

7:59

of scouts. scouts, personnel

8:01

guys, GMs, just

8:04

to kind of, each

8:06

team calls it something different. Some teams call

8:08

it pods, some teams call it clusters, but

8:10

you're always gonna have a group of players

8:12

with the same grade and

8:14

you still wanna stack them. So

8:17

that's where I use some of

8:19

the other opinions out there is

8:22

to break up my clusters and

8:25

really stack. And in the end, I

8:27

usually get between 580, 600 players done. It's

8:31

just me, I

8:33

can't dive into all of the things

8:36

the teams do, but I do my

8:38

best and I go from there. But

8:40

you talked, like you said, you talked to a lot

8:42

of scouts, executives, coaches, and helmet

8:44

pilots. Throughout the year, yeah, at the senior

8:47

bowl, I'll talk to as many

8:49

people as possible. At the combine, I usually come

8:51

away with, between

8:53

my notes and actual recorded

8:56

interviews, I'll

8:58

have 250 interviews at

9:00

the combine from people. So

9:03

again, it's, and usually when I'm

9:05

getting other people's opinion, it's to

9:08

get the latest injury information I

9:10

can, and then to break

9:12

up my clusters when I have groups

9:14

of players with sort of the same grade on

9:16

them. You know, it's funny, cause, and I'll get into that in a

9:18

minute, but like you hear from people who, I think

9:20

from an outsider's

9:23

perspective, that sometimes if

9:25

you have a tackle

9:27

rated seventh and another one rated 10th or

9:29

whatever, they've, people feel like there's

9:32

this big gap, but I hear from people

9:34

all the time that it's not the gap

9:36

between seven and 10 or whatever the number

9:38

is, is not as vast as people

9:40

think. Yeah, John, I think

9:42

the two things folks who are interested in

9:48

the draft fans, or any of us are interested

9:50

in the draft. I think two things they misjudge

9:52

is the amount of movement

9:55

a player makes on the board late.

9:58

Like there isn't this multi-way, round movement

10:01

of players between January and

10:03

April. That's very uncommon.

10:06

The movements are very subtle between

10:09

teams. A round, if a

10:11

team moved a player around, that would be pretty

10:13

drastic. And I think that

10:15

and what you're saying, and I

10:17

think the amount of

10:19

differences between the boards of each team,

10:21

I think would shock people. If

10:24

we were all allowed to see all 32 boards, I

10:29

think we would be shocked at

10:31

the divergent opinions

10:33

about from

10:35

player 11 on down to

10:37

the end of the draft. I mean, the

10:39

top of the board usually sounds

10:42

the same for most teams. But

10:46

I think beyond that, there's

10:48

a bigger variety than people realize. Well, there are

10:51

a lot of times here, we're

10:53

all here, some scouts would have a third round grade in

10:55

the guy, and some scouts would have a first round grade

10:58

on a guy. And I

11:00

always tell people, sometimes the

11:02

discussions that we have, whether

11:04

it's amongst fans, amongst media, there's

11:07

divergent opinions there. It's same in the

11:09

building. It's hard to get a consensus

11:11

on every guy, so

11:13

you try to reach some

11:15

level of finality to it. What

11:18

have you made of with

11:21

Washington and the quarterback stuff,

11:23

right? And taking it down to the wire

11:25

with, they brought the four guys in.

11:28

I don't think all four guys are really in contention for

11:30

that second spot. But what have you made

11:32

about their process

11:34

with that? And the

11:36

belief like, okay, they

11:39

hadn't settled on a guy, I do think they probably

11:41

had a strong lean one way or another. But what

11:43

have you made about their whole process? Well,

11:46

Adam Peters was here. Right. And

11:50

Adam, when he was here,

11:52

you knew he was gonna be He

11:54

was gonna be a personnel director, GM from that.

11:56

That is a good football man. He has been

11:59

around what, three. Super Bowl teams now. The

12:02

construction or three Super Bowl teams.

12:04

Are one of on that one it here. Ah

12:07

a That's it. Doesn't shock

12:10

me. How. He's approached it because

12:12

that's how he learned it and. Ah,

12:14

It was an enormous. Fact.

12:17

I haven't really. In some

12:19

ways recovered from him leaving here

12:21

to join John Lynch and in

12:23

San Francisco. But. I

12:26

knew and John got hired. He would come for

12:28

Adam everybody in the building. New

12:31

so they're process is

12:33

exactly for when. I

12:35

would expect from him but stats are. They.

12:39

They. Really did well in my opinion. As

12:41

I say awfully highly of Adam and

12:43

the is a great. I've

12:45

got a good i and I think they

12:48

will. Have a third. What?

12:50

Will be structured the best as and

12:52

and how they make this decision is

12:54

in on. It's tough for him because

12:57

he's making. What? Will probably

12:59

be one of the biggest decisions of his

13:01

tenure. Right out of date and. That's.

13:03

Always job but. You. Don't always

13:06

get hired by a team that's role

13:08

in a long do and well for

13:10

your often earlier in your career as

13:12

a personnel die. You're. Going to be

13:14

in position to make some of the biggest decisions

13:16

you ever going to make because that's just how

13:18

you got the job. in

13:20

the first place. so addict or processes

13:22

what I would expect from him and.

13:25

Ah, he will make. He. Will

13:27

make a football decision and, as I guess,

13:30

that's the best way I can phrase that

13:32

he won't make a high decision he won't

13:34

make. Public. Opinion Decision: He

13:36

will make a football decision that he

13:38

thinks is best. Involves a lot

13:41

of people in this process. High

13:43

and yeah I guess. I guess it depends on

13:45

how somebody handles all that information. but how do

13:48

you think he'll and it has you could look

13:50

at say too many. A lot of cooking the

13:52

kitchen right? Or it's like hey, you're

13:54

getting a lot of opinions and you get a

13:56

process. Everything. wallace how we learn

13:58

that i mean how elway did it here

14:01

when he was GM. And look,

14:04

I don't know many people in the

14:06

world who are more decisive than Elway

14:09

on his own, but he was very

14:11

much about sort

14:13

of hearing. He wanted all the information and

14:16

then make the call. And I think that's

14:18

the way John Lynch

14:21

has done it in San Francisco. And you

14:23

know, they have a very strong opinion in

14:26

Kyle Shanahan and you know, their coach is

14:28

involved in San Francisco and a lot of

14:30

the personnel decisions. I

14:32

think that's the way he's learned it, but

14:35

I don't think he'll have any

14:37

hesitation when it's time for him to

14:39

take all the information and just say, okay,

14:41

this is the direction we're going. What

14:44

do you know about Lance Newmark? Because he's another guy

14:47

that's been, I think, I think he

14:49

was one of the more under

14:51

the radar moves they made this

14:53

offseason. Yeah, I

14:55

mean, obviously I don't know as much

14:58

as like, or have as much experience

15:02

like to do with Adam, but you

15:04

know, I think they're well constructed.

15:07

I think he, I think that's one thing and

15:09

you know, he was in no hurry to leave.

15:11

Adam was no in hurry to leave San Francisco.

15:13

So he, he was going to

15:15

structure it the way he wanted. And

15:17

I think it's been, I think they've done exactly

15:20

what I would have expected him to do

15:23

as far as putting all that

15:25

together and the people he wanted to work

15:27

with. Which quarterback do you think would

15:29

appeal most to him? In

15:32

my mind, you know, to me, I,

15:36

I ranked Caleb

15:38

and Williams and Daniels

15:41

have essentially the same grade for

15:43

me. I stacked them with Caleb

15:47

one spot ahead of Daniels only

15:49

because, you

15:52

know, we're talking like down to the decimal point

15:54

type of thing. But

15:56

I think Daniels would

16:00

appeal to them. And maybe

16:02

I'm wrong, but that's just my gut from

16:05

being around him, he and John

16:07

Lynch both. And

16:12

I think Daniels is the most ready to

16:14

play of the group immediately, in my

16:17

opinion. What do you think would appeal most? And if

16:19

you, like you said about with John and with him,

16:22

and by the way, well, I want to get into Jay

16:24

in a minute too, but what do you think would appeal

16:26

most to him to finalize that decision? I

16:30

think decision making and

16:32

composure, because when you draft

16:35

a guy to be the face of a franchise

16:38

and the expectation, I

16:40

mean, that franchise is

16:42

a lot like this one here. It

16:45

isn't just a football team

16:47

people follow. It's

16:49

a lot more than that. And that can

16:51

be a lot, you know, I've said for

16:53

years here, this place chews

16:55

up quarterbacks and spits them out because

16:59

there's no place to hide. If

17:01

you're the Bronco quarterback, you can't

17:03

go five States from

17:05

here and hide anywhere. You know,

17:08

if you're the Giants quarterback, you

17:10

can go have lunch in the village and there'll

17:12

be a ton of people who don't care, right?

17:14

In the cafe, you know, that's not

17:17

the case here. And

17:19

I think Adam

17:21

will be very cognizant of, you

17:25

know, that's what they're really meeting about

17:28

when they meet these guys in person. Not only

17:30

can you do the job, it's can you handle the

17:32

job? And I think that's the

17:34

component they will be very interested in. How

17:37

close do you think it was between Jayden

17:39

and Caleb in the scouts eyes? Plus

17:43

it's, you know,

17:45

scouts will often tell you what flavor of ice cream

17:47

do you like? I mean, Caleb's

17:51

intrigue is the improvisational skills, the

17:54

off schedule, the ability to create

17:56

out. of

18:01

seemingly a play gone

18:03

bad. But

18:05

by the same token, he will have a lot

18:07

of work to do. Some

18:11

people believe he's far too quick to leave

18:13

the pocket, far too quick to use those

18:16

improvisational skills. And the

18:18

NFL is about timing and getting

18:21

the ball out. This notion you're going to be

18:24

able to run around all the time and

18:27

create all the time is simply not

18:29

going to work. So I think Daniels,

18:32

I think, despite the fact

18:35

he has absolutely no qualms about putting

18:37

himself in harm's way, he's

18:40

far more quick

18:43

decision making, get the ball out.

18:47

And some of that was their offense and the

18:49

receivers he had. But

18:52

I think he, in his

18:55

one really spectacular season, he

18:57

showed decisiveness and

18:59

the ability to process quickly. And

19:02

I've heard many things about how well

19:04

he's done on

19:07

the proverbial board when they ask him to

19:10

retain information and diagnose plays and all those

19:12

things they do when they meet with guys.

19:16

One of the things that you hear from the

19:18

analytics group will point out the pressure to sack

19:20

ratio numbers. And I always say,

19:22

when I talk to people in the league, nobody

19:24

brings up, not so much the stat, but they

19:27

don't bring that up as an issue. Did

19:29

you hear anything along those lines as an issue, like

19:31

he takes too many sacks or anything like that? Well,

19:35

I guess the best example

19:37

of that through the years is I

19:40

think Goff took 80 some

19:42

sacks before

19:44

he came out way back. And

19:47

it is an issue, but

19:49

I think in the end, you end

19:51

up dissecting each of them. A

19:54

team will look at all of them. How

19:56

many of these were on the quarterback? How many

19:58

were on a bus? up

20:00

front how many were on

20:02

the plate caller, you know, you

20:04

emptied out the backfield on

20:07

third and 12 and you blocked five

20:09

on seven and you didn't get it done,

20:11

you know, that type of thing. So they

20:16

will they will go over it. Now I have

20:18

not heard that complaint.

20:20

Okay, that's core. It's sort

20:22

of an aside, you know, but you know, it's something

20:24

you'd have to be careful about kind of is

20:26

what the, you know,

20:28

people say I just think the

20:31

decision making is very clear. What

20:33

do you throw for picks, you

20:35

know, that's that's really and one

20:38

of them was very early in the season. So I

20:41

think I mean, the receiver fell. Yeah,

20:43

so I don't I

20:46

it's not something it's something they are going to

20:48

look at, but to decide how many

20:50

were actually on you. But

20:52

it hasn't been a huge thing. I don't think

20:55

the other thing you'll hear from fans who maybe

20:57

prefer a Drake may is okay, well, this is

20:59

only the one great year as

21:01

first year LSU seemed to be solid enough

21:03

that he kind of vaulted into a top

21:05

of the day three selection, right? So how

21:07

would what would you say about that? I'd

21:11

much rather have an ascending player in my

21:13

mind than a that's I mean, that's just

21:15

how I look at the draft. I

21:18

think ascending players are what you want.

21:20

And I don't think he's at the

21:22

end of his curve yet. And

21:25

I actually think that's a concern

21:27

for some about May is how

21:30

much more is there

21:33

in the development. But I you know,

21:35

physically, you know, may is

21:37

the prototypical. I

21:40

mean, if you talk to somebody in the 2000 2000, early

21:42

2000s 1990s, that's exactly how they would drop

21:48

a quarterback. So you

21:51

know, that's his sort

21:53

of uniqueness on his board on

21:55

this board is he is prototypically

21:58

the physical quarterback.

22:02

I think his hurdle

22:04

will be finding

22:07

the line between what I think I can

22:09

do and what I can really do because

22:11

some of his decision making, particularly in the

22:13

red zone, that's going to red

22:15

flag some scouts because that

22:17

can be difficult to

22:19

fix at times. I mean, take

22:22

a player like Jay Cutler, who was

22:25

the SEC player of the year at

22:27

Vanderbilt, and was always trying to lift

22:29

an underman team, much like Drake May,

22:33

when he played college. So he took risks

22:35

all the time, and

22:37

he threw a lot of red zone

22:39

interceptions as an NFL quarterback. And that's

22:41

always something to be cognizant of in

22:45

a guy's development. But in general,

22:47

back to your question, I

22:50

love ascending players. I think that's

22:52

exactly what you're looking for, especially

22:54

on day one and early day

22:57

two, you want to sending players with all

22:59

of the traits that you like. For

23:06

those listening, you had Caleb five

23:08

on your top 100, Jake

23:10

six, and then you have JJ

23:12

McCarthy at 22 and Drake at

23:14

23. So those are my

23:16

those are my first two grades of the

23:19

second round. I have 21 first round grades

23:21

this year. So you have them as top

23:23

of the second round grades. Yeah. Why is

23:25

that? I just think I

23:29

always my list is traditionally

23:31

been where the quarterbacks sort of belong

23:33

and even the teams. The

23:36

team that takes McCarthy likely will not have

23:38

them in that slot on their board. They'll

23:40

never admit it ever. But

23:43

core I always say there are two draft boards.

23:46

So there's a quarterback board and there's everybody else.

23:48

And that's always been the case, always

23:50

will be the case. Because

23:53

the desperation and I think the desperation

23:55

level league wide is, is

23:57

that an all time high. This

23:59

is the that I've been telling people

24:01

is if

24:04

four quarterbacks go in the top 12 this

24:06

year, four quarterbacks in

24:09

the top 12, it will be

24:11

the fifth time since the merger that's

24:13

happened, only the fifth time. And

24:17

four of those will now have come

24:20

since 2011. So the desperation level, a

24:25

league wide is sort of matching the fan,

24:28

you know, desire to have

24:30

a franchise quarterback. So I

24:32

think it's a very different environment. Quarterbacks

24:34

are getting overdrafted and even the league

24:37

is accepting it now. Why

24:39

do you have JJ the one spot ahead? And

24:41

obviously, I'm very close, but why do you have

24:43

them there? Again, it's an

24:45

ascending thing. I, you know,

24:49

it's a quirky, there's no sort

24:52

of mathematic multiplier, but I

24:54

tend to lean toward players with

24:56

higher what I consider higher ceilings

24:58

with a developmental curve. You

25:01

know, McCarthy is the risk is you

25:03

don't have the data, you simply don't have the data.

25:05

He I think he had 27 games in his career

25:08

where he had 15 or fewer completions.

25:12

I mean, that's, that's unbelievable in

25:14

this day and age. So, I

25:17

mean, there are certain coverages combinations,

25:20

people may not have even seen him complete a

25:23

pass again, you know, and

25:25

you might go to Daniels or

25:27

May or Kayle Williams, and you've seen

25:29

six of them in a half, you know,

25:31

so it's the

25:33

risk on McCarthy is you don't have

25:35

the data. So you really are projecting,

25:37

but I like the projection. And

25:40

there's just a toughness in his game,

25:43

I think it takes to survive

25:45

being a rookie quarterback in the NFL

25:47

and moving on from that first year.

25:49

Last thing about quarterbacks too with Daniels

25:51

playing in the SEC, going

25:54

up against guys like Saban, how much

25:56

how much more info did that give you? SEC

26:01

players are the safest bets on the board

26:03

because they essentially play NFL football every week.

26:06

You know the corners are better, the

26:09

schemes are better. I mean you

26:11

look at the types of defenses

26:13

SEC teams are running weekly. You

26:16

don't see that kind of aggressiveness. Defensive

26:19

backs with hands-on receivers. You

26:22

just don't see it in the other leagues. I

26:25

can go one game with

26:27

Daniels. I watched Daniels against Alabama. I'll

26:30

get more information than I will Kayla

26:32

Williams in six of his games in

26:35

that conference. It's just different and that's

26:38

why you see so many SEC players

26:40

come off the board because

26:42

they know what it's like to compete on Wednesday

26:45

to play in the game. They

26:47

practice better, they're more ready to

26:49

practice better, they meet better, they

26:52

do everything better because they have to. I mean look

26:54

at the number of... I mean

26:57

look how hard it is to get on the field at

26:59

Georgia. You know MIMS

27:01

is one of the best tackles in the

27:03

draft. The Georgia tackle, I think he played

27:05

seven games at Georgia. It's

27:08

just hard to get on the field at those

27:10

schools. So the last thing I would add

27:12

about just because I

27:15

didn't have any of these quarterbacks graded

27:17

as highly as I had CJ Stroud last

27:19

year even though I think I

27:22

had Stroud seven in my

27:24

top 100 last year but I thought the top

27:26

of the board was a little better last

27:28

year but I didn't

27:30

have any of these guys quite as high as

27:33

I did CJ Stroud last year. So I think

27:35

this is a good class but it's really... I continue

27:39

to be amazed that it

27:41

might be drafted as one of the greatest

27:43

quarterback classes in history and

27:45

I didn't have one person tell me that

27:48

during the season, not one. I never

27:51

had anybody say this could

27:53

be one of the best quarterback classes I've

27:55

ever seen yet. There's a very good chance

27:57

it is drafted like it. In

28:00

terms of Daniels and Caleb,

28:03

who, what grade might you compare them

28:05

to in terms of quarterback? Not necessarily

28:08

style, but who, whether a quarterback's

28:10

graded may be similarly over the years. They

28:12

were very close to Stroud, in my mind,

28:15

just at this point. You know, we're

28:17

talking just ticks on the meter.

28:19

I just, in sort

28:21

of fairness, are just sort of a comparison of

28:23

where they would have fit. Like if

28:26

they were on last year's board, I would have had

28:28

them below CJ Stroud. I

28:30

guess that's where I come down. Let's

28:33

go to the tackles, because this team needs a tackle too. And

28:35

yeah, there's a lot of them. There are.

28:38

And it's funny because I think there's a lot

28:40

of divergent opinions on them. You know, and it's

28:42

funny because like the name that I keep hearing

28:44

lately is Roger Rosengarten. I don't even think you

28:47

had them in there anywhere. He's a

28:49

guy that he, that's one I

28:51

may, that may sting me. That

28:53

may be the one he gets taken at 50 and you're like,

28:55

you know, people are like, you didn't even have them in there.

28:59

A very good player. Yeah. So

29:01

if you go ahead. No,

29:04

it's just the math didn't work out. I

29:06

probably have them very close to

29:08

being in. It's just, it's hard

29:11

to load. It's a loaded tackle board.

29:13

And not all those tackles are

29:15

going to go on day

29:17

one and day two. There'll be some

29:19

late day two and early day three

29:21

tackles who were probably graded one

29:24

or two rounds above those picks. If

29:26

Washington, cause there's a belief that maybe they

29:28

trade back into the first round, but let's

29:30

say they hold Pat in the second round

29:32

and with their first pick, who's a

29:35

tackle that maybe would be there as cool could

29:37

come in and be a starting left tackle. Maybe

29:39

not from day one, but early in the season.

29:42

In the second round you're talking. Yeah. Be

29:45

high second round. You know, I know like you have

29:48

you guys like Guyton

29:50

are in that mode. Jordan Morgan from Arizona.

29:53

They had another guy. And

29:55

he's. Athletically.

30:00

You know people were wondering this year what it

30:02

would look like because he tore his ACL late

30:04

right in the 22 season But

30:07

he looked really good so

30:09

I think that The

30:12

thought is he looked so good

30:14

this past year he'll he'll by the time he

30:17

gets to a training camp He's

30:19

gonna be pretty well recovered And

30:22

ready to move move into the line, but

30:24

he moves really well and he's

30:27

got kind of that modern tackle Movement

30:29

ability which people really like so

30:32

if so he could so because they pick a 36 and

30:34

40 so Yeah,

30:38

and I like the Yale tackle down in

30:40

the ground. Yeah, I like him a

30:42

lot You know

30:44

as a left tackle. Yeah now

30:46

he's coming off an injury. So I you know,

30:48

I don't know how

30:50

teams and You

30:53

know, I've been sort of

30:55

told analytic anecdotally Hey,

30:57

not worried, but you know, I don't know where

30:59

people come down on that Officially,

31:02

so you do I guess if they want

31:04

to get the starting left tackle they could you

31:06

do you feel like they could stay there

31:09

And find one at 36 and or 40 But

31:12

I think that's there will still be if there

31:15

might even be a couple with first round grades still

31:17

on the board for them You know depending how deep

31:19

they went With

31:22

their you know Certainly

31:24

early late first early second round grade

31:26

will be on the board somewhere Is

31:28

there a tackle that you like we say I

31:30

would trade up even ten spots to get this

31:32

guy? ten spots Yeah,

31:36

yeah Whatever in the back end

31:38

of the for in the mid to end of the first cuz

31:40

I don't think they're gonna trade up too High, let's say, you

31:42

know 20 down below or

31:44

16 down below whatever Yeah, the quirky one

31:46

for me is I like Latham more than

31:48

most. Okay, I've got them way

31:51

high But

31:53

a lot of you know, that's a player who

31:55

may not be that high when the picks start

31:57

getting made and I like

31:59

men's I'm fascinated

32:01

with him as a player that there's

32:03

just almost no resume. He only

32:06

started six games at Georgia. But

32:10

watching him work out, I

32:13

saw the Pro Day tape. I

32:17

saw what

32:20

he did at the combine. I mean, just

32:22

to me, if my

32:25

offensive line coach was on board and really

32:28

fired up, that's

32:31

a player I think that has an awful lot of. And

32:34

people say he's a right tackle and I think

32:36

he can play either tackle spot and deserves a

32:38

shot at it. So the other spot

32:40

they're looking high up would be defensive end. And even

32:42

though they signed a few guys the offseason they had,

32:46

they brought in Marshawn Neeland, they

32:48

brought in Chop Robinson. You had Chop at number

32:51

12. So- That's

32:53

another player. Chop

32:56

Robinson is the classic draft question

32:58

through the years, as far

33:00

back as you wanna go. Production

33:02

over potential and production,

33:04

those are your two

33:07

sort of categories. There's always these high

33:09

production players in college, three,

33:12

four, five years of production. And

33:15

then fans sort of wonder why isn't

33:17

this guy more highly regarded as a

33:20

pro prospect? It's

33:23

the potential element. Right, exactly.

33:26

An NFL person, they love your

33:28

production, but they really love your

33:31

potential. And that's Chop

33:33

Robinson. You watch

33:35

what he can do on the game

33:37

video and you just wonder why he

33:39

doesn't have 38 sacks in a season.

33:43

It's just that kind

33:45

of ability. And that's

33:47

the question you gotta add. Why

33:49

wasn't there more? And

33:52

how much more can there

33:54

be? But athletically, and

33:56

just the way he's put

33:58

together, he fits. that's

34:02

a pressure player in today's NFL

34:04

and there's almost nothing more coveted

34:06

other than a franchise quarterback than

34:09

a pressure player who can

34:11

impact. I mean, just look

34:14

at Micah Parsons, what he does on a,

34:16

you know, the watt, TJ

34:18

Watt, look what he does on a

34:20

weekly basis. If you have that guy,

34:22

and you know, Micah

34:24

Parsons was an inside backer who

34:26

people hoped. I

34:29

see Chop Robinson as that kind of, you

34:31

know, what will he be? And

34:33

if you're creative and you're a good coach, you

34:36

might really get something. And that's what I'm going

34:38

to say, like, who are those guys, when you

34:40

look at him, like, this would be a Dan

34:42

Quinn type player and the way they like to

34:44

use them and some versatility on the edge. Yeah,

34:47

versatility. I don't know if he

34:50

is as versatile potentially, but I

34:52

lo, Jared versus an

34:55

edge player I, I

34:57

really liked and I like him more than some,

34:59

the Florida State. Right. And

35:03

now he plays, I think

35:06

Dan Quinn and any other defensive, former

35:08

defensive coordinator, he plays

35:10

with the, the foot

35:12

to the floor all the time. There's

35:15

no concern there. And

35:17

I just, you

35:20

know, I always have to pause, you know,

35:22

he played 25 games in Florida State. He

35:24

had 18 sacks and 29 and a half

35:26

tackles for loss in 25 games. That's

35:29

week to week production, consistent

35:31

production. And when you add

35:33

in his, you know, the

35:35

relentlessness of it, that that's a player I

35:37

really like on the

35:39

edge. And, you know, Lotu is

35:42

the most proficient rusher. Technically,

35:45

his handwork is a five, a

35:47

fifth year NFL guy type of

35:49

handwork. It's just the

35:51

medical you've got to, you know,

35:53

he was. Was told by doctors not to

35:55

play football again. And

35:58

he didn't have any trouble at UCLA. but

36:02

he's had spinal fusion surgery.

36:04

So that's his draft

36:06

status will be fully in the hands

36:08

of medical staffs around the league.

36:11

We got about five minutes left. So how deep do

36:13

the DNs go, do you think? If you want to

36:15

get an edge rusher, because I think it feels like

36:17

they do, how deep does it go? Yeah. I

36:20

don't want to go to tight ends. No, you can still get, I

36:22

think you can go deep and

36:26

get more situational guys down the board, but you're

36:28

going to get the thing about

36:30

edge guys is they contribute immediately. If

36:33

you traditionally, nothing's hard and

36:35

fast rule, but traditionally, if you

36:37

have rushed the passer with success

36:40

in college, you will rush the passer

36:42

with some kind of success in

36:45

the pros if you do your part. Down the

36:47

board, Austin Booker from Kansas is a guy. I

36:49

think people. Yeah. And

36:51

that's, that is, he will

36:54

immediately, he's more quick than fast. Like his 40

36:56

time isn't going to blow you away, but you

36:58

watch him play and the first

37:00

two steps are really, and

37:04

he's just scratching the surface of

37:07

what he can be. And again, that's an

37:09

ascending player that you want.

37:11

And he's almost six, five. So he's

37:14

going to be able to add strength and

37:16

not lose any of what he can do. Corners,

37:19

they're going to play more press man. Who

37:22

fit, and they're looking at guys in the third round. Elijah

37:24

Jones is a guy on your list too, 97. So

37:27

who are some, who are a couple of press man corners

37:29

or who can do a little bit more of that? Well,

37:32

you know, you don't see a lot of press man.

37:34

Now his timed 40, you know, had

37:37

people wringing their hands a little bit and he

37:39

improved a little on pro day, but

37:42

I still, I

37:45

just think last year, Camari Lassiter played too

37:47

many damn games at Georgia for people to

37:49

tell me he can't play football. He

37:52

wouldn't have been on the field. There were plenty

37:54

of four, three guys on the depth chart that

37:56

couldn't get them out of the lineup. So I

37:59

think he's just. a ball player. You know, I

38:01

think you got to hide your eyes when you

38:03

look at the stopwatch and just, you

38:07

know, you know, he isn't going to be that

38:09

man schemes all the time, but he's physical.

38:12

So I think in the right combination

38:15

of coverages, he

38:17

could give give a team some something good.

38:19

And again, if you've been on the field

38:21

of Georgia, you can do something. TJ

38:24

Tampa, Iowa State, really, he might be

38:26

the most physical guys on the board.

38:30

Might be one of the best tacklers at corner

38:32

two. So like, I remember Vic,

38:34

Vic Fangio, that was always his number one thing

38:36

on a corner. Everybody else would be looking at,

38:38

you know, can he cover can he

38:40

do this, Vic, one of the guys who could tackle

38:43

Tampa's that guy on the

38:45

board. Sandra

38:47

still from Michigan, I love as a

38:49

nickel, I think he'd be one of

38:52

the best nickel corners on the board. And then

38:54

Abrams drain from Missouri. I think those are all

38:56

guys down in the second round,

38:58

early third that that I

39:01

like tight end up

39:03

they they not a lot

39:05

on this board. Right. And that's what I'm saying

39:07

because they they want one right to pair with

39:09

Zach hurts. You had Sanders at number 40. I

39:12

don't think you had Wiley on there and but you

39:14

had caseover. So how deep is that class? And

39:17

where should you get one? It's

39:20

not very deep. I like

39:23

down, you know, I like

39:25

Senate down the board from Kansas

39:28

State. I just think he's I

39:30

take care with the idea of moving him. I did

39:34

make him like, I do

39:36

they have me do the biggest draft

39:38

riser story each

39:40

year and Senate was one

39:42

of those guys I picked for

39:44

that I think he's a good value

39:46

pick down the board

39:48

but it's then about Eric all

39:51

they had Eric all in here too. I

39:53

know there's a medical but what about him?

39:55

That's that's the decision on him is you

39:57

got to decide. how

40:00

soon he's gonna play and all of those things.

40:02

I mean, people, the

40:05

analytics part of tight end these days is

40:08

teams think if you pick them high, you're

40:11

almost at the, you know,

40:14

the high end of the salary bracket

40:16

for the position overall. So that makes

40:18

people not wanna dive

40:20

in high on the board, which is

40:22

why, you know, I've got Brock

40:24

Bowers is one of my best players in the

40:26

draft. It is unlikely he has

40:29

taken there because of the

40:31

math of it all, no matter

40:33

how good he is. So, but

40:36

it's a huge gap between the start of the

40:38

top two or three and then the rest. And

40:41

standards would be one of your top guys too. Yeah.

40:44

And then the last thing too, like one of the

40:46

things I heard like you during this process is

40:49

the 2025 class will be loaded. So teams

40:51

should try to get picks next year. Do

40:53

you hear that? And, you know, if you're

40:55

Washington, you have six in the top 100,

40:58

do you use all of them or using that

41:00

as capital to maybe move either up or into

41:02

next year a little bit? I

41:04

think John, I think sometimes

41:06

teams know there is a sort of

41:08

a danger of banking

41:11

on the loaded class next

41:13

year. You're sort of two

41:15

ACLs, a meniscus tear

41:18

and a, you know, a fractured

41:21

fibula from taking

41:23

what the loaded class down.

41:27

So yes, they consider it,

41:29

especially quarterback. I think sometimes

41:31

teams will put

41:33

that in the bank, what they think of the

41:35

next quarterback class. But,

41:39

and they will give us, every team will

41:41

give us some thought for certain, but in

41:44

the end, it's going to be about what's

41:47

the vision of this player coming in right now?

41:49

You know, if it's not a guy they think

41:51

can make the 53 or

41:53

even the practice squad now that they're expanded,

41:57

you might be more apt to say, and the back of

41:59

this, is

42:01

a little light and that's going to be

42:03

the issue because everybody might. When

42:06

you get to the late sixth and the seventh round this year, you're

42:08

gonna have a choice. You're gonna have a choice of just

42:11

picking a guy because you don't want to compete

42:13

for him as an undrafted or

42:15

doing what you're saying moving on and getting

42:17

getting something for next year. Thank

42:19

you. You're the best. This is a draft that

42:21

can transform this franchise. I appreciate your insight. Thanks

42:24

a lot, man, as always. Anytime.

42:26

You're the best, John. That's

42:30

it for this episode. Thanks to Jeff for joining

42:32

me and thank you, as always, for tuning in.

42:35

I'll be back, I believe, on Tuesday. I believe

42:38

so. If not, it'll be Wednesday, but I believe

42:40

Tuesday with another episode, so I'll talk to you

42:42

next time.