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Annie Sargent: This is Join Us in France episode 489,

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quatre cent quatre vingt neuf.

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Bonjour, I'm Annie Sargent, and Join Us in France is the podcast where we take

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a conversational journey through the beauty, culture and flavors of France.

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Today, I bring you a trip report with Joel Joslin where he showcases his 21 day

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solo traveler's journey through France.

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And he does it in a wonderfully candid manner.

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I love that because I love to keep it real.

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This podcast is supported by donors and listeners who buy my tours and

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services, including my Itinerary Consult Service, my GPS self-guided

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tours of Paris on the Voice Map app, or take a day trip with me around the

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southwest of France in my electric car.

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You can browse all of that at my boutique joinusinfrance.com/boutique.

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Patreon supporters get the episode as soon as it's ready and ads free.

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There won't be a magazine today because I'm away exploring the beautiful

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Aveyron Department for a few days.

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I'll be back next week with details about access around the Olympic sites

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especially before the opening ceremony.

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But I do want to thank all my patrons who have kept this

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podcast going for a long time. And a shout out this week to new patrons: Patty Mulkeen, Krista

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Critter, Carol Tumey, Rebecca A.

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S. and Kristi R.

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And to all of my current patrons, it's wonderful to have you on board

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in the community of francophiles.

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I'll post some photos of my Aveyron visit next week, because the new

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messaging feature of Patreon works really well, so I'm enjoying that.

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How do you become a patron and get this podcast ads free?

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Go to patreon.com/JoinUs and to support Elyse, go to patreon.com/ElysArt.

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And thank you very much. Bonjour Joel, and welcome to Join Us in France!

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Joel Joslin: Hi Annie, thank you for having me. Annie Sargent: Lovely to see you, and we have an interesting

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conversation laid out today. You had a rather long trip to France.

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You were here for 21 days, and this was a solo trip.

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So can you tell us when your trip took place and more or less

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briefly where you went so that then we can dig in more details?

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Joel Joslin: Yeah, so I went to France last October 2022,

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end of September, I guess. I went to spent about a week in Paris, and then five days in Normandy,

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three days in Brittany, four days in Strasbourg, and three days in Nice.

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Annie Sargent: Oh, so you went all over the place. Did you land into Paris?

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Joel Joslin: Yes. Annie Sargent: And flew out of Paris as well?

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Joel Joslin: I flew out of Nice. Annie Sargent: Out of Nice, okay.

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And how did you get around most of that time?

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Joel Joslin: A lot of it was by train, so I went from Paris to Normandy,

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to Brittany by train is pretty easy.

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I used a car some in Normandy, which actually...

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but if I could change one thing about my trip, I probably would

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have used one less, because I really didn't really need it, and I could

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have gotten a more central hotel. It was helpful for the Aigle de Mont St-Michel, but I probably

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didn't need it for the rest of it. Annie Sargent: Interesting. Joel Joslin: To get from St.

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Malo, and Brittany to Strasbourg, I had to change trains a couple of times.

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It was a day mostly on the train, but I didn't mind it, you know,

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like a long train ride is a lot more relaxing, like a long drive or flight.

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Annie Sargent: That's true. Joel Joslin: There's a lot of nice scenery, so it was just

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a day of rest a little bit. And then I flew Strasbourg to Nice on Volotea.

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It was like two hours. Annie Sargent: Oh yeah, not my favorite airline.

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Did everything go well? Joel Joslin: Yeah, well, it was fine.

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We have budget lines, super budget lines like that in the US too, I think they're

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generally okay for short trips, I think.

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Annie Sargent: Yeah, and it's true that in France, if it's like you experienced,

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if you go from Brittany all the way to Strasbourg, you have to go through

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Paris, you will have to change trains in Paris, and if you had tried to

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do Strasbourg to Nice, you probably would have had to go back to Paris

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as well and change trains in Paris.

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So, you know, it's one of the reasons why the regional airlines are still needed.

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We can't do everything by train, even though lots of French people would

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like to, but the other issue that comes up is that French trains are

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not cheap, when you compare them to other countries in Europe, like Spanish

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trains, Italian trains, German trains, we're quite expensive by comparison.

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And so that's why we still have a lot of people driving and taking airplanes.

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Even those not very good Volotea flights that I don't like,

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but you know, such is life. Joel Joslin: Well, it was so.., Volotea it was so cheap, I didn't really mind it.

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Annie Sargent: Exactly. It's very cheap. Yeah, very cheap. So I'm interested in what you said about Brittany, cause I usually recommend that

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people take the train into Brittany, but then rent a car, especially if

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they're going to do all the landing beaches and all that by themselves.

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Perhaps you had a tour, right? Joel Joslin: You mean Normandy?

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Right? Annie Sargent: Normandy. Sorry. Sorry. Yes. Joel Joslin: Yeah, so I, well, okay, so I spent, I was in a

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couple locations in Normandy. I spent the first two days in Rouen, which I really liked Rouen.

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It's a very nice town, nice city, but, yeah, if I were to live in France, which

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I don't think will ever happen, it's just hypothetically, I might pick Rouen,

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because it's a very, very pretty city and just the right size city for me.

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And it's close to Paris, so it's very good location.

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So yeah, I really liked Rouen. And then I got a car for the, like, more western central Normandy.

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I took a tour for the D-Day stuff, which a lot of those roads are

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really, really tricky, like the small country roads you have to go through.

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So I don't think I could bail out that car either. Annie Sargent: Where do you normally drive in the US?

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Joel Joslin: Well, I live in North Carolina. Annie Sargent: Okay.

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Okay. Joel Joslin: Central North Carolina, Raleigh Durham. Annie Sargent: So it's interesting because, you know, if you take a

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tour, you can see a lot very fast.

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Those tour guides, which company did you do your tour with?

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Joel Joslin: I don't remember the name. Annie Sargent: Was it perhaps Overlord Tours?

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Joel Joslin: I don't think so. Annie Sargent: Okay. Okay. Yeah, there's a bunch of companies that do this, and there are some companies

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that will also drive you to the Mont St.

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Michel, but from Bayeux. Where were you staying in Normandy?

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Joel Joslin: I stayed in like a kind of a countryside hotel.

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I kind of, in retrospect, I think probably would have been better if

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I just stayed in Bayeux and just got in a car to get to Mont St.

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Michel. That's the only time I really needed it. Annie Sargent: That makes sense.

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That makes sense. Yeah, you can do a lot in France with just tour guides and the train.

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But there is no way to get from Bayeux to Mont St.

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Michel by train as far as I know.

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Joel Joslin: I think you can go take a train to Rennes and then a shuttle bus,

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but that seems like so much trouble. Yeah.

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Annie Sargent: Yeah, yeah, so Dol-de-Bretagne is the place, or

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Rennes, I think, probably, are places where you could get a train to close,

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so you get to Dol-de-Bretagne, and then from there you can take a bus.

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Honestly, that's for people who have time, and who could, you

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know, who don't mind spending a whole day just in transportation.

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Most people want to drive to the Mont St.

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Michel, spend half a day there, and leave the next day.

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Is that what you did? Joel Joslin: Yeah, pretty much.

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I got delayed going to Mont St. Michel because I got a flat tire on the way.

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I'm not really used to European roads, but they fixed it after a couple hours.

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And then I had a pleasant drive there, and yeah, I saw it and

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left, mid, late afternoon. And yeah, then I dropped my car off at Saint Malo and checked into my hotel.

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Annie Sargent: Aha. So your flat tire thing, what happened?

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Did you just call the assistance and they took care of you?

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Joel Joslin: Yeah, it took them a while, but they got to it eventually.

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Annie Sargent: Yeah, usually assistance in France, I mean, you can get

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any assistance anywhere in France.

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It's just a question of waiting, and waiting, and waiting.

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So they, I assume they towed your car to a repair, to a tire place, and then

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you waited while they fixed the car? Joel Joslin: No, they just replaced it there.

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Annie Sargent: Oh, OK, even better. Joel Joslin: I was there three nights in Saint Malo.

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If I'd been in Brittany one or two more days I would have wanted a car then, but,

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you know, I wasn't there that long, so. I did take the ferry to Dinard though.

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Annie Sargent: How did you like Mont St. Michel, the time you spent there and Saint Malo?

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I'd love to hear your opinions about these places.

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Joel Joslin: I really enjoyed both of them, like, Saint Malo, when there

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it was like kind of a cloudy drizzly day, which isn't the best for photos,

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but it's, you know, very atmospheric. I really enjoyed Mont St.

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Michel and Saint Malo, I liked a lot too, I liked walking along

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the walls and seeing the sea and I liked the really extreme tides.

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Annie Sargent: Yeah. Joel Joslin: That at low tide, like there's land bridges to

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outer islands and at high tide the waves are attacking the sea walls.

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Annie Sargent: Yes. This weekend, as a matter of fact, is a high tide.

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We're recording this in the late October and this weekend is a high tide.

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And you can see, I mean, this is normal for Saint Malo, you can see the water

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totally hitting the first row of houses.

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It's quite spectacular to see that.

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I mean, they must have very good windows and doors because they get hit really

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hard with those windows and doors. Some of these houses are really close to the wall, aren't they?

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Joel Joslin: Yeah. And I like the food. There are a lot of good crepes and seafood.

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Annie Sargent: Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. Crepes, you can...

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and it's pretty inexpensive too. I mean, seafood is more expensive, but crepes are not very expensive.

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Joel Joslin: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I had a lot of crepes and galettes there.

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Annie Sargent: Did you get tired of eating out all the time?

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Joel Joslin: Not really, I mean, I tended to, the way I did it, I tended,

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like, breakfast, most of the time I would just go to a boulangerie and get

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a croissant or something with my coffee.

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Then for lunch, I'd sit down and get something like a cheese plate or maybe

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a sandwich or something like that. And then for dinner, I'd get, something a big, like, three or four course

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meal, so that way I could kind of pace myself how much I ate out.

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Annie Sargent: Yeah. What sort of budget did you have for food on this trip?

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Do you remember? More or less? Joel Joslin: I think for breakfast and lunch, I went fairly cheap.

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For dinner, I spent a little more, but I didn't go to,

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like, super high priced places. I would usually get, for dinner, I'd usually get, like two drinks, starter,

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main course and dessert, maybe one other thing, and I tried to stay under

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fifties, maybe sixty euros for it.

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Which was, especially once I got out of Paris, wasn't that difficult.

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Annie Sargent: Yeah, yeah, Paris is always more expensive for everything.

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Anyway. Okay. So, was three nights in Saint Malo too long perhaps?

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Joel Joslin: Not really. I mean, I was kind of exhausted, so it was nice to take it a little slow.

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One more night would have, there would, and I think, and I could

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go, I rode the ferry over to check out Dinard a little bit too.

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Annie Sargent: Uh-huh. Joel Joslin: One more night would have been too much though, but without a car,

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but if I stayed any longer, I would have wanted to get a car and drive around.

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Annie Sargent: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's a really beautiful place and lots of good weather

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at times, at times, not always.

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So, late September to October, Do you feel like you lucked out

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on the weather or not so much? Joel Joslin: Yeah, I would say so.

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It didn't rain that much and the temperature was good.

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Annie Sargent: All right, let's get into your favorites. Like I asked you to rank your favorites that you saw on this trip.

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So this is where we jump around a little bit.

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But you listed the first as Chartres Cathedral.

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Tell me more. Joel Joslin: I took a day trip there from Paris, and it was, was very beautiful,

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and I liked the chateau village too. I almost wanted to spend a night there, but I ended up going back to Paris.

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Yeah, I really enjoyed that. It was very beautiful.

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Annie Sargent: And it felt like a village to you. Joel Joslin: Yeah, yeah.

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Annie Sargent: It's a city, but it's not a huge city.

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I mean, when you're out of Paris, it feels like a very small place, doesn't it?

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Joel Joslin: Sure. Yeah, Mont St. Michel I really liked.

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I really enjoyed Strasbourg, and I took a group tour of the Alsatian countryside.

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We went to─ Mittelwihr, Eguisheim, and Colmar.

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Annie Sargent: Very nice, was this a bus tour or something, or

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was it the, like a small vehicle? Joel Joslin: It was a van.

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Annie Sargent: And was it all English speakers in the van?

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Joel Joslin: Yeah, I think most of the others were from Germany, but they spoke English.

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Annie Sargent: And what about the food in Alsace?

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It's very different from the rest of the country, isn't it?

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Joel Joslin: Yeah, yeah, the food was, I liked the food, it was very different.

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You know, more German, obviously.

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I had some really good sausage and some really good Black Forest cake.

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The last meal I had in Strasbourg wasn't the best.

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I think I picked kind of a tourist trap place, but besides

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that, I enjoyed the food. Annie Sargent: How much time did you spend planning your evening meals?

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I mean, at lunchtime, obviously you kept it simple, but for your

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evening meals, are you the type of person who does a ton of research or

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you just like to go with the flow? Joel Joslin: Usually, I mean, I wouldn't pick them out days in advance.

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I would usually try to get a reservation for where I was going to

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eat in the evening by afternoon to make sure they'd have a spot for me.

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But yeah, I would just, I'd go by, like, hotel recommendations a lot of the time,

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or think guidebooks in a couple cases, and, or just what seemed good to me.

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Annie Sargent: Hopefully you listened to the podcast before you went as well?

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Joel Joslin: Yeah, I listen to some episodes. Yeah. Annie Sargent: Because there are some good recommendations on the podcast as well.

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So that's very cool. All right.

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And then the other things that you list are in the South, St-Paul de Vence.

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Joel Joslin: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, I was in Nice three days, which was a good day, way to end the trip.

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Yeah. And I spent one day, well, morning, I think I went to

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the Forum for the same day.

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I also went to the Chagall Museum, but anyway, I went, yeah, I took

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the bus to Saint Paul de Vence and yes, just spent a few hours there.

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It was very nice. Annie Sargent: So that was, yeah, because getting to Saint Paul de Vence

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is not the easiest thing in the world. So probably the tourist office told you how to get the bus or something?

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Joel Joslin: I think I followed a guide I'd read before about it.

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Yeah, but the bus drive, I mean, well, once you get out of the

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city anyway, it's very scenic. Annie Sargent: Yes. So what, I forgot to ask at the beginning, how many times

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had you visited France before? Was this your first time or?

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Joel Joslin: I had been once before, in like 2015, I think, I went to,

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went to Britain, and then I went to Paris for a few days at the end.

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And Paris, that was the best part of the trip, so I wanted to

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go back and see more of France. So, yeah, actually, Paris, the trip got, I've told you about before, the trip

15:03

got off to a little bit of a rough start because I got sick a few days into Paris.

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I wasn't like seriously sick, just a mild cold.

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If it had happened like late in the trip, I just pushed through it, but

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it was early, so I decided I just got to rest this off, so I spent like a

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whole day and at least half of two more days just lying in my hotel room.

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Annie Sargent: Did you have to see a doctor or no? Joel Joslin: No, no, it was nothing serious.

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Annie Sargent: Yeah. That's a bummer when you get sick and you waste, I mean, I

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guess you need to get better. So, you know, you spend some time in bed, I guess that's just how it's going to go.

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Joel Joslin: Mm hmm. Annie Sargent: In Paris, did you have things you wanted to do or are you

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just the type of travel you, you strike me as the type of traveler who just

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shows up somewhere and looks around.

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Joel Joslin: There have been some museums I wanted to go to. I did like the Musée Rodin.

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I made it there. Yeah, there were a few different things I wanted to do, but

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I had to cancel a lot of it. Annie Sargent: Yeah. Yeah.

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Yeah. So Paris was not the best part of the trip, but then things got better.

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But you know, this happens to a lot of people. They make plans and then they can't follow the plan as, as well as they

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had hoped for because something happens, you know, a family member

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gets sick or they get sick or whatever.

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Yeah. Joel Joslin: Yeah, yeah, and while I was, like, in my hotel, just sitting in

16:15

my hotel in Paris, also ended up just making a few other last minute changes

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to the itinerary, like, just basically dropping a couple one or two night

16:23

places and just consolidating a little bit, which I think was for the best.

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Annie Sargent: Mm hmm. you did. I mean, you had a lot of things on your 21 days, it's not impossible.

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It's just, you know, you got around a lot of different places and always

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complicates your life a little bit.

16:41

Around Nice, did you see anything else besides Saint Paul de Vence?

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Joel Joslin: I went to the Chagall Museum and I took a walking tour.

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Annie Sargent: All right. A walking tour with a group or a VoiceMap?

16:50

Joel Joslin: Like a, yeah, the group. We went up to the chateau, and yeah, it was, so yeah, I really enjoyed Nice.

16:57

Annie Sargent: Yeah. So did you go up to the château that, whereas there's no chateau, or did you

17:01

go to a chateau that actually exists? Because I don't remember a chateau that was occupied during the war.

17:07

Joel Joslin: Well, there's like this, there's a fort, like you have

17:10

to take an elevator part of the way.

17:12

Annie Sargent: Okay, okay. Joel Joslin: There's a big rampart overlooking the sea.

17:15

Annie Sargent: So the Château Hill is what it is. Joel Joslin: Yeah, and then there's the ruins of an old

17:19

chateau a little behind that. Yeah.

17:22

yeah, I really like the food in Nice too.

17:24

It's like, nice mix of Mediterranean freshness and French complexity, I guess.

17:30

Annie Sargent: Yeah, no, it's, it's really good.

17:32

They serve you the best pizzas in Nice. I love, I love all the pizzas.

17:36

And, if you go to the episodes that we've had about Nice, especially the one

17:40

with the lady that wrote the VoiceMap tour, I can't remember her name or the

17:44

episode number, I'll put it in the show notes, but she recommended a lot of

17:49

really good restaurants in Nice because she's been living there for decades.

17:53

And so she's tried them all. And so she, she had a few that, you know, come out on top.

17:58

Joel Joslin: I don't remember most of the restaurants now. I did write, send you one, Femme du Boulangerie, which isn't just a bakery.

18:05

Yeah, I enjoyed my dinner there so much.

18:07

I had lunch there a couple days later.

18:10

Yeah. Annie Sargent: THat's a good sign. Joel Joslin: Yeah, I enjoyed pretty much every meal I had in Nice.

18:14

I had one of those, I forget what it's called, but it's basically

18:17

a Niçoise salad sandwich. with olive oil drizzled all over it.

18:20

Annie Sargent: Ah, yes, Pam Bagnard, Pam Bagnard, with tuna fish in it, right?

18:25

Joel Joslin: That was really good. Yeah, had that for lunch one day.

18:28

Annie Sargent: Very good. Oh, all right, and now we yank back to Strasbourg because you liked the

18:33

Strasbourg Cathedral and some museums. I would like to hear what, which ones, and what you recommend people do there.

18:40

Joel Joslin: Yeah, the cathedral's really nice, it's got a big square around it

18:44

with a lot of cool stuff, and there's a museum about the cathedral nearby.

18:49

There's like kind of this triple museum of like, I think, fine arts

18:54

decorations and ancient stuff. I only made the fine arts one, but it's really nice.

18:58

And then there's the, a few blocks away, there's the Museum

19:01

of the City of Strasbourg, which, yeah, I really enjoyed that too.

19:05

Part of it was closed for renovations or something.

19:08

Annie Sargent: It's a very good one. I think that was my favorite, The History of Strasbourg,

19:14

because I just like history.

19:16

Joel Joslin: Yeah. I took the boat tour too. Annie Sargent: Yes, the boat tours are fantastic in Strasbourg.

19:22

I love that. I thought that was really done better than most cities.

19:26

Joel Joslin: Yeah, yeah, it was really nice. Yeah. Annie Sargent: You had mentioned Rouen in the beginning, but you

19:31

did a walking tour in Rouen. Was it again a group tour?

19:34

Joel Joslin: Where? Annie Sargent: Rouen. Joel Joslin: Oh, Rouen, I don't think I did a walking tour there.

19:38

Annie Sargent: Okay. Oh, you said walking around Rouen.

19:42

So you just liked the city. Joel Joslin: Yeah.

19:44

Annie Sargent: Did you find it that different from other cities?

19:46

Like, is it very different from Strasbourg or...?

19:50

Joel Joslin: It's not like, hugely different, I just like the feel of it.

19:53

And I went to like the Joan of Arc, the place where they have the trial

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reenacted and one or two other spots. Annie Sargent: All right, so, your D-Day beach tour.

20:01

Do you remember all the places where they took you?

20:04

Joel Joslin: We went to Pointe du Hoc.

20:06

No, I'm butchering pronunciation there, but. Yeah, yes.

20:10

I think, one of the beaches, maybe Omaha and the cemetery.

20:15

It was a half day tour. Annie Sargent: Oh yeah, then, and did you feel that was too much, like some

20:19

people really love these historical tours, did you feel it was too much,

20:24

did you feel it was just enough? Joel Joslin: I thought it was just the right amount.

20:27

Annie Sargent: Uh Huh. They didn't throw too much history at you all at once?

20:30

Joel Joslin: No, I mean, it was, it felt just right. Annie Sargent: Are you generally a history, like a history fan, do

20:36

you read history books or anything

20:38

Joel Joslin: like that? Yeah, yeah, I do. Annie Sargent: Mm-hmm Joel Joslin: I actually have a history degree, undergrad.

20:42

Annie Sargent: Oh, there you go. So, did you specialize in anything?

20:46

Joel Joslin: Not really, no. Annie Sargent: Just a general...

20:48

but did you do much European history or mostly US history?

20:52

Joel Joslin: I did more European. My, actually my senior seminar relevant to this was about the French Revolution,

20:57

but now I work in computer science. Annie Sargent: Very good, very good.

21:01

Now, you went to a museum in Paris that I have not seen,

21:04

it's the Gustave Moreau Museum.

21:07

Joel Joslin: Yeah, yeah, that was, I forgot about that one.

21:09

Yeah, it's about the French painter Gustave Moreau.

21:12

It's pretty small, but has a lot of nice paintings.

21:15

Yeah, I did that the first day I was there. Annie Sargent: So is that, so did you like it because it's a smaller museum

21:21

that you can get through quickly or?

21:24

Joel Joslin: Yeah, it was a good size, and it had a lot of nice paintings.

21:27

Annie Sargent: Yeah. It sounds like you, you like medium sized cities, perhaps medium sized museums,

21:32

you don't love the Louvre, you know, like spend the whole day in the Louvre.

21:36

Joel Joslin: I actually, I actually do enjoy the Louvre. I've been there once, I didn't make it there this time, but someday maybe

21:43

I'll go again and see more of it. Annie Sargent: Are there things that you wish you had known about Paris, or about

21:50

France in general that you want to share with everybody that you just discovered

21:54

or you were surprised by or whatever? Joel Joslin: I don't know, like if the biggest thing I would have probably

21:59

changed from the final itinerary I ended up with, like I said, was

22:03

just staying in Bayeux for like West Central Normandy and just getting

22:08

a car the day I went to Mont St. Michel and then Saint Malo.

22:12

I was mostly good about avoiding tourist traps, but there were one or two I ended

22:17

up in for restaurants, so I just, you know, you probably don't want to go, at

22:21

least for, like, dinner, you probably don't want to go to places that are,

22:25

like, on the squares facing the big sites. A few blocks back, it'll be.

22:34

Annie Sargent: Yeah. so that's always an interesting question is, you know, touristy, what's touristy?

22:40

Well, sometimes, and this is a reality in France in minor towns, you

22:47

don't really have a lot of choice. Like tomorrow, Elyse and I are going to visit some towns in the Gers, so

22:54

it's a rural department, where we're going is two hour drive from Toulouse

22:58

and we're not going to find a lot of restaurants, you know, there's not, we

23:02

might have a choice between two or three.

23:05

So it's in cases like that, you have to go to the restaurant that's

23:09

open on the town square because that's what's open, you know.

23:13

Otherwise it's going to be a sandwich or a grocery store stop or something,

23:19

Joel Joslin: Sure, yeah, just mostly medium to large cities.

23:22

Annie Sargent: Yeah. Medium large cities, you usually get more, a lot more choice and I

23:27

don't know, touristy to me doesn't, I mean, obviously you're a visitor

23:31

from the US, you're a tourist.

23:34

And so there's no shame in going to touristy places so long as

23:38

you get a good experience, a good meal for a decent price.

23:42

If the prices are inflated, or if the food is just not so interesting or

23:49

whatever, that's a different matter. Joel Joslin: Yeah, I had a, I ended up, I did have dinner at a couple places

23:56

like that, but I enjoyed the vast majority of the meals I had a lot, so...

24:00

Annie Sargent: Yeah. What's your favorite thing to order when you're in France?

24:03

Joel Joslin: Let's see, I like, well, this is a really basic answer, the croissants

24:08

are really good, I liked escargots, the cheese, I'd usually get some large meat

24:12

thing for dinner or occasionally fish. Annie Sargent: So is, like, if they have escargot as an appetizer,

24:18

you will always take that? Joel Joslin: Most of the time.

24:22

Annie Sargent: That's funny to me because that's what tourists do.

24:26

French people don't typically order escargot because we can

24:29

have it any time and you know...

24:31

But visitors, they want to try the escargot, of course they do.

24:35

And it's pretty tasty because all that butter and garlic, mmm, it's good.

24:39

Joel Joslin: Yeah. Annie Sargent: That's good.

24:44

Let's see. Ah, you went, you had a soufflé at one of the restaurants

24:47

you mentioned in your notes. Joel Joslin: Oh yes, yes.

24:50

It was a dessert soufflé with like this caramel sauce.

24:53

It was very good. Annie Sargent: Mmm, yes, yes, soufflé is something else.

24:59

Joel Joslin: Pantruchet. Yeah, I was one of two restaurants and I guess it's been a year since

25:04

the trip so I can't remember every restaurant I ate at, but that was one

25:07

of the best restaurants I ate in Paris. Annie Sargent: It's called what?

25:09

Le pain ou le Le lapin Joel Joslin: Le Pantruche.

25:12

Annie Sargent: Okay. Interesting. I'll try and find it and put a...

25:15

Joel Joslin: And yeah, there's also another restaurant in Paris Pony.

25:18

I went there a couple times. It was a good place to go to while I was sick because it was near my hotel and

25:23

it's just, it's like a good brasserie slash bar slash burgers, like the kind of

25:29

no fuss food you want when you're sick. It was good.

25:34

Annie Sargent: One of the questions I ask on the form is what did you

25:37

learn about France on this trip? And your answer is I learned how varied and diverse the country is.

25:43

I'd like you to, you know, tell me more about this because you did get

25:47

around to a lot of different regions. Joel Joslin: Right, so, well, first there's just a whole lot of different

25:52

landscapes there, there's the coasts in Brittany, and the mountains and hills

25:58

around Alsace, and then Nice, which is also coastal, but a completely different

26:02

kind, and then there's lots of different cultures, Paris is Paris, of course,

26:08

and then Alsace is more German, Nice is more Italian and also a little British.

26:13

Kind of funny, it's an Italian-French town that was, lot

26:15

of it was built by the British. Annie Sargent: Yeah, there were a lot of, a lot of British move there.

26:19

The weather is pleasant. Joel Joslin: The cuisine and food is very different from region to region too.

26:24

Annie Sargent: Mm hmm. Very good. So, the last question we're going to get into is, did you

26:28

make any mistakes on this trip? And this is where I want you to take your time and just tell me about the

26:33

mistakes because other people, we want them to avoid mistakes if they can.

26:37

Joel Joslin: Yeah, I mentioned I didn't really need a car in Normandy

26:42

except for getting to Mont St. Michel, so, I wasn't there long enough that I really needed one besides that.

26:47

I think my initial itinerary was busier with more stops than I ended up with,

26:54

so I did end up changing it, while I was in Paris, so it worked out pretty

26:58

well, but I think the one I had planned was a little bit more aggressive, and

27:02

I think that would have been a mistake . Annie Sargent: So what did you remove?

27:05

Joel Joslin: Uh, I moved a few, a few things, like, I was originally

27:08

gonna, spend a night in Mont St.

27:11

Michel, and go to a couple other places in Provence besides Nice.

27:16

Strasbourg actually was originally going to be a day trip from Paris,

27:19

and I ended up changing that around, I was too sick to go there.

27:23

And yeah, so it was actually pretty different, but I think the final

27:26

itinerary worked out pretty well. Annie Sargent: Uh huh. So you have to be nimble.

27:30

I mean, that's just a fact. And because you were traveling by yourself, you were able to.

27:36

It's harder when you're with you know, your significant other, or with your

27:40

parents, or with your friends, or because getting everybody to agree

27:45

on one thing is pretty difficult. Joel Joslin: Yeah, so the first half of the trip had some ups and

27:50

downs, but on the whole, I think it all turned out really well.

27:53

Annie Sargent: Mm hmm. Mm hmm. It's funny. You said, I forgot that I generally do not enjoy driving in Europe.

27:59

Joel Joslin: Yeah, yeah, Annie Sargent: Yeah. The narrow roads, did you rent a big car or how big was this car you got?

28:05

Joel Joslin: It wasn't that big. I don't know what brand it was, but, yeah, it was medium, it was medium sized,

28:11

but I don't know, it's just like the roads in the US, most parts of the US

28:16

are a lot wider, so like just getting used to the European roads is tricky.

28:23

Annie Sargent: Yeah. It is, it is,when you are not used to it it's...

28:26

yeah you said you got a flat tire from hitting a curb, it happened to me

28:29

once as well, it happens to all of us.

28:32

Joel Joslin: Yeah. Annie Sargent: Yeah, that's just never, never a good thing, but, honestly, there

28:37

are places, and in Normandy, if you're not going to do a tour, you can't get to those

28:44

places without a car, so it just depends.

28:47

If your plan is to take a tour, then you don't need a car really,

28:52

ever, because if you set yourself, if you're in Bayeux, and you take a

28:57

Normandy beach tour, and then you take another tour to take you to Mont St.

29:01

Michel, which you can do, some companies do that, then that's it, you

29:05

don't need a car for Normandy at all.

29:08

I was talking to somebody just a few days ago, who was interested in touring

29:12

around Occitanie where I live, and it's, I, you know, like, I don't know how you

29:18

do it without, it's either a tour, like if you want to go to the Dordogne, if

29:22

you're in Toulouse and you want to go to the Dordogne, it's either a tour or

29:26

a private driver, or you rent a car.

29:29

You know, you can't get to those places.

29:31

You know, it's just a fact. And there's so many places where you don't need a car, you know, at

29:36

all, like, it's fine, it's fine.

29:38

Joel Joslin: And like, the one nice thing. Then you get tours, like, sometimes you can go through places a little faster

29:43

than you'd like, like, I didn't, I wasn't able to see as much as Colmar as I ideally

29:48

would like on the tour, but the nice thing is, since you don't have to concentrate

29:51

on driving, you can just, like, enjoy the scenery as much as you want.

29:54

Annie Sargent: Yeah. Joel Joslin: And the Alsatian countryside is very beautiful.

29:58

Annie Sargent: Very nice, isn't it? And the other way to enjoy it is to just take buses.

30:03

They have a good regional bus system.

30:06

But it's, again, it's for people who have time.

30:09

So if you're going to be in Strasbourg for a few days, you can take a bus to

30:13

most of these villages, a public bus, like a city bus, regional bus, I guess.

30:18

And that will take you, typically that bus is going to be full of teenagers

30:22

who don't have a driver's license yet and older people who don't want to

30:26

drive anymore, and they take the bus.

30:28

And you have a bus like pretty much every hour to go to these places like

30:32

Colmar and Riquevire and all that.

30:34

So, you can do it on the bus, but it takes longer, everything takes

30:38

longer if you do it that way. A tour is really the most efficient way to do it, they will just take you.

30:45

And sometimes they yank you out a little bit too fast.

30:47

It sounds like perhaps in Colmar they said, let's move on a little too fast.

30:51

Joel Joslin: Yeah, yeah, I was, I had actually been hoping to do the Unterlinden, which I wasn't able to, but maybe someday.

30:57

Annie Sargent: You mean, did you say Unterlinden? You didn't get to see the museum?

31:01

Joel Joslin: Yeah. Annie Sargent: Ah, yeah, yeah. And it is a big museum.

31:04

I mean, you can just go to the retable, to the, you know, the altarpiece, and

31:10

just see that, but it is true that if you want to see the whole museum, it would

31:15

take a good two, perhaps three hours.

31:17

You know, it's not one of the tiny ones, that we have in some places.

31:21

And one of the things that you mentioned is that perhaps your itinerary was

31:25

overambitious and that's a, that's good advice for most people just to...

31:29

Joel Joslin: I'd say it was, the original one I had planned was too ambitious.

31:33

And then the one I revised, like, I was, you know, I was in my hotel room a lot in

31:38

Paris, and I realized, yeah, especially now that I'm sick, this is just too much.

31:42

So I, like, fortunately I was able to just call the hotels and

31:47

get a few things shifted around. So, yeah, it worked out, it worked out, the itinerary I ended

31:52

up with worked out pretty well. Annie Sargent: And what did you do for internet access?

31:56

Did you purchase a plan? What did you do? Joel Joslin: Yeah, I bought an international plan, and also

32:02

the hotels had Wi Fi, so, you know, I could use it there a lot.

32:05

Annie Sargent: And it sounds like you didn't use apps particularly

32:08

to book your hotels or whatever. Did you mostly call them?

32:11

Yeah. Joel Joslin: Yeah, mostly I did it through the hotel's website,

32:16

that tends to be the cheapest. There are a couple apps I used.

32:19

I used Omio for trains. Annie Sargent: Omio?

32:22

Joel Joslin: Yeah, O M I O. Yeah, it just, it's for booking trains in Europe, I don't know if they do

32:28

other continents, but it just puts most regional trains together into one

32:33

search, and then you can book from there. Annie Sargent: That's pretty good.

32:35

I mean, I don't think I've heard about this one before.

32:38

Joel Joslin: Yeah, it's pretty handy. Annie Sargent: Sounds good. Joel Joslin: I went to Italy recently and I used it there too.

32:41

Annie Sargent: Aha, so compare France and Italy now.

32:45

Joel Joslin: I really, I really enjoyed both, I think I, I think

32:48

I liked France a little better, but yeah, I really enjoyed both.

32:52

Annie Sargent: In what ways? Is it the food? Is it the people?

32:55

Is it the scenery? Is it the museums?

32:57

The diversity perhaps? I think France is more diverse.

33:01

Joel Joslin: Yeah, the food, I think the scenery, both have a lot of

33:04

beautiful scenery, but I'd give a slight advantage to France probably.

33:08

And yeah, I like, France seems to have more like different types of food, of

33:12

things in the country, more the diversity. But I really enjoy both of them.

33:16

Annie Sargent: Yeah, in Italy, it felt like it was one church after another.

33:20

So many gorgeous churches in Italy.

33:22

It's unbelievable. Joel Joslin: Yeah. Yeah.

33:25

I like gothic churches a little better than Baroque, so there's that too.

33:28

Annie Sargent: Ah, yes. Yeah. That's a big, that's a big one, because in Italy, they're mostly baroque, you know,

33:34

and in Nice as well, it's a lot of Baroque churches, they're beautiful, but yeah.

33:39

Okay, let's see. So, overall, you thought your trip was restful.

33:44

Joel Joslin: Yeah. Annie Sargent: Doesn't sound like you have major regrets.

33:47

Joel Joslin: Right, yeah, the regrets are, I mean, like, I wish I hadn't gotten

33:51

sick in Paris, and a couple other things, like, could have picked a different hotel

33:55

for part of Normandy, but yeah, I don't have any, like, really major regrets.

33:58

Yeah. Yeah. Was the budget reasonable?

34:01

Did you find France more expensive or less expensive than Italy overall?

34:05

I'd say, a little less, Paris is probably more expensive than Rome, but once I

34:11

got out of Paris, I felt like everything gets a lot cheaper, and Italy, you know,

34:17

Venice and Florence are still expensive.

34:20

Especially Florence, I was surprised how expensive Florence was.

34:23

I did go to Ravenna, which is a small city that was pretty cheap, but on the

34:27

whole, I thought France was cheaper.

34:29

The budget was mostly reasonable, there were a couple things I could have done

34:33

differently to save some money, but overall, yeah, for the length of time,

34:38

I didn't feel like it was excessive.

34:40

Annie Sargent: It was a long time to stay, you know, and which more and more

34:44

people are trying to stay longer because international flights are getting more

34:49

expensive, and I think typically it is better to stay a couple of weeks if you

34:54

can, three weeks is a lot for most people.

34:57

Joel Joslin: Yeah. Italy was two weeks, so my next international trip, we'll see.

35:01

Annie Sargent: Yeah. Do you travel a lot internationally typically?

35:04

Joel Joslin: I've taken three international trips. The first one was in 2015, and then the second one wasn't until

35:10

2022, so that's a long gap.

35:12

I always had stuff going on, like I had to move, or finances, or COVID, of course.

35:17

Annie Sargent: Yeah. Our favorite thing COVID. Joel Joslin: Ideally I'd like to take an international trip

35:22

every year, but we'll see. Annie Sargent: Yeah. I love the photo you sent me with the helmet.

35:28

Joel Joslin: Oh, yeah, yeah, like, that was a good picture

35:31

from the Strasbourg Museum, yeah. Annie Sargent: Yes, I tried on the helmet as well, didn't

35:35

do as good a job as you did. I think everybody tries on that helmet.

35:40

Yeah. Well, fantastic talking to you.

35:42

It's good to talk to somebody who is willing to admit that things

35:46

didn't go 100 percent perfectly, but over three weeks, what are the odds

35:51

that nothing would go wrong, right? Even in real life, if you think about your real life in three weeks, well,

35:58

something upsetting is going to happen, probably at one point or another,

36:02

unless you have a very charmed life.

36:05

Some boss, or coworker, or someone is going to annoy you, right?

36:09

Yeah. yeah. When you ask me my favorite foods, I don't think I mentioned the desserts, so I'll

36:14

say I really like a lot of the sweets. Fantastic.

36:17

Well, Joel, thank you so much. And well, thank you for talking to me, thank you for being a good sport about the

36:24

vicissitudes of recording a podcast, and I wish you some, some more wonderful trips.

36:29

Joel Joslin: All right, well, yeah, thank you for having me on, Annie.

36:31

Have a good day. Annie Sargent: Merci beaucoup. Au revoir. Joel Joslin: Au revoir.

36:40

Annie Sargent: The Join Us in France travel podcast is written, hosted,

36:43

and produced by Annie Sargent and Copyright 2024 by AddictedToFrance.

36:49

It is released under a Creative Commons, attribution, non-commercial,

36:54

no derivatives license.