0:03

This is a production of Journalista Podcast

0:06

LLC and iHeartRadio. See

0:14

this cute little vial here.

0:16

That's crack rock cocaine, the most

0:18

addictive form. You think

0:20

it's the glamour drug of the eighties. Well that's

0:22

the point of this front and little reminder. It

0:25

can kill you. And if you've got to

0:27

die for something this

0:29

sure as hell ain't it.

0:32

Say no to drugs and say

0:34

yes to life.

0:36

What would I do if someone offered me these drugs?

0:39

I tell them to take.

0:40

A hike, punk, Welcome

0:44

to the Journalista Podcast. When

0:47

we first met Cookie, she had just picked up

0:49

a pound of wheat and stood in front of a firing squad.

0:53

She survived. Her Missus Scarface Era got

0:56

her job at CBS because she partied and

0:59

the party never stopped. In

1:02

this episode, it might just kill

1:04

her.

1:09

I want to warn you some of the things

1:11

you'll hear in this story might be hard to listen

1:13

to. I know it was

1:15

for me. Well

1:19

before we get to that, did you ever

1:21

think to yourself? For my next vacation,

1:23

I want to go see a bloody civil war in

1:27

Nicaragua. They called it revolution

1:29

tourism.

1:30

Any dignitary, any famous

1:33

person throughout the whole war years,

1:35

anyone that came to town, whether it's

1:37

to make a movie, to check out the revolution,

1:41

just to be a tourist, because it was a tourist

1:43

destination during the war, because

1:45

the war never made it to the capitol,

1:47

it never went into Monagua.

1:50

Well, since you're talking about that, let's just go with

1:52

that for a minute and talk about some of the crazy

1:54

people that you got to meet up

1:57

on that floor, from presidents.

1:58

To prime ministers,

2:01

people in Reagan's cabinet, rock

2:04

stars, movie stars, actors,

2:07

writers, directors. We had Jackson

2:09

Brown staying there with Daryl

2:12

Hannah.

2:13

Cookie just got me and my wife third row

2:15

seats to his concert in New Orleans. Great

2:17

time until my car got booted.

2:20

Richard Gear came through, Peter Gabriel

2:22

came through. President Jimmy Carter

2:25

and Ms. Rosalind stayed on

2:27

that floor with the Secret Service. Jesse

2:29

Jackson came, Chris Christoffers and

2:31

different actors. We had ed Harris

2:33

Marley, Mattlin. The funny

2:36

thing is that everyone was there

2:38

doing something, but at nighttime,

2:40

everybody also heard that the

2:43

place to be was at that CBS

2:45

office on the seventh floor. At

2:47

the end of the hall, and so people

2:49

would just show up. We had

2:51

US newspapers Miami Harold,

2:54

Washington Post, New York Times. We

2:56

had direct dial telephones

2:58

to the US, all the things that the

3:00

rest of the country and the rest of the

3:02

people did not have access to. We

3:05

had the famous new fax machine.

3:08

We had balconies where people would come and lay

3:10

out sunbathe in the middle

3:12

of the war. So it was a very eclectic

3:16

crowd during the day would mostly

3:18

be journalists coming in and out.

3:20

With CBS unique in that way. At NBCA,

3:23

they didn't have that kindry.

3:24

NBC had their offices in the same hotel,

3:27

a floor above us, but they weren't

3:29

the cool people. At

3:31

six the office is closed. Even the NBC

3:34

people came down to hang out at the CBS

3:36

office. I think it's because I was running

3:38

it.

3:39

I bet you had a nice bar and.

3:41

I had a setup bar. I had

3:43

something new that had just come out.

3:46

Well, we started the war with Walkman's and

3:48

then CD players came out

3:50

with little bitty speakers and that

3:52

little setup could cost five six hundred

3:54

dollars. I was the first one to bring it to the

3:56

country with all the latest music.

3:59

Oh, we even had cable TV. I

4:01

don't know how they rigged that up, but we had

4:03

that. It was just the place to be come

4:05

six o'clock, you know, everybody would come down

4:08

for cocktails or come up for cocktails.

4:11

Did you go out at night with some of these people or go

4:13

to bars and clubs?

4:14

There were bars, there were clubs, there were

4:16

discos at the time. Sure

4:19

we went out.

4:20

Well, what was the craziest experience you had with somebody

4:22

who'd come to visit?

4:23

It's so many of them. One night

4:25

were out there by the pool and U

4:28

two was there. They were on a fact finding

4:30

mission. A lot of people would come just

4:32

fact finding missions. They wanted to see

4:34

what the revolution was all about. That's

4:37

how I wanted them there. I was just

4:40

graduated from Loyola and I wanted to see

4:42

what the revolution was about. It was a

4:44

common occurrence, just like congressmen

4:47

and senators would come to their

4:49

fact finding missions. And

4:51

so you two was there, and I

4:54

sent the tables some drinks, and

4:56

then they asked me over and we started

4:58

to talk, and even though it was nighttime,

5:00

they wanted to pick a tour of the city. We

5:04

went around with my driver

5:07

in Nicaragui's points of direction, up

5:09

meant towards the airport, down meant

5:12

towards the cemetery, east

5:14

west, north south, and

5:16

then points of direction where the

5:18

coffee house used to be, ten

5:21

blocks north, three blocks

5:23

south. I still don't understand

5:25

it to this day. I kept telling

5:27

that the streets had no names. Bono

5:30

just really couldn't understand it. How

5:32

do you not have names on the streets?

5:35

And I said, I don't know. It's called pod points

5:37

of direction. He just got the biggest

5:39

kick out of it. Many months later,

5:41

you know that song came out streets with no name.

5:44

I don't know if there's any connection, but

5:46

I just thought it was funny because he

5:49

was really just thrown for a loop

5:51

that how could you have a whole city

5:53

with no street names?

5:56

The debate still rages about that song and

5:58

what city you two was referring to, not

6:01

much doubt. In Monagua, Time

6:04

magazine weighed in with the story titled Postcard

6:06

from Monagua, How far are you from

6:08

the place Bono sang about.

6:11

A year after Irish rocker Bono

6:13

visited Nicaragua in nineteen eighty

6:15

six in an effort to raise awareness

6:18

about Central American war refugees.

6:20

You too, released its smash hit album

6:23

The Joshua Tree, and Nicaraguans

6:25

immediately recognized that one of the songs

6:28

was written about their country. Twenty

6:31

years later, most people here still

6:33

hold his fact that Where the Streets

6:35

Have No Name was written about Monagua,

6:38

a squat and sprawling capital city where

6:41

well the streets are unnamed.

6:44

Stephen Kinzer, a former New York Times

6:46

bureau chief based in Monagua in the nineteen

6:48

eighties, accurately describes the fine

6:51

art of giving directions in Monagua as

6:53

a Socratic technique based

6:55

on first determining what the direction asker

6:57

knows, then working backward from

7:00

there. The funniest part about giving directions

7:02

in this corner of the world is that some streets

7:05

actually do have names, but

7:07

no one knows what they are.

7:09

In a press release, ad agency

7:11

McCain Nicaragua said, this

7:14

unique and unreal aspect of Monagua's

7:16

life caught the attention of an inspired Bono,

7:18

the lead singer of global supergroup U two,

7:20

to compose the hit song Where the Streets

7:22

Have No Name, after visiting Managua in nineteen

7:25

eighty six. The campaign is focused

7:27

on adding street signs to Monagua streets,

7:29

identifying these locations on Google Maps

7:32

by tagging them with historical information.

7:35

You told me about a one particular friend

7:37

that has become famous in the news

7:39

in the last few years, Randy Cretico.

7:42

For people who are listening to this, Randy Cretico

7:45

is now known for being the go between

7:47

between Roger Stone and Julian

7:49

Massage correct and getting

7:52

Hillary's emails and that.

7:53

Sort of thing in the Russia investigation. At this

7:55

hour, new details about the relationship between

7:58

a long time Trump associate and

8:00

Wiki leaks. We now know the name of

8:02

the person who was the go between for

8:04

Roger Stone and Julian Assange

8:07

money. Roger was out front on Capitol Hill and Mono,

8:09

you're breaking the story. What more are you learning at

8:11

this hour?

8:12

Yeah, that's right. Roger Stone revealed to the House

8:14

Intelligence Committee the name of this

8:16

intermediary, a person who had contacts

8:18

with Julian Assane during the campaign season

8:20

and who also had a conversation with Roger Stone

8:23

himself, and the name of the individuals. Randy Kredeco

8:25

now Randy Credeco is a New York

8:27

radio personality who did have conversations

8:30

with both Stone and as Songe during

8:32

the campaign season. In fact, they were guests

8:34

on both of his shows.

8:36

He was a comedian, and we don't know him

8:38

that way, although when you did a lot of his appearances,

8:41

you know, on the news interviews.

8:42

He tried to make jokes.

8:45

Yeah, and he was almost

8:47

on the cusp of becoming successful, but

8:50

he chose to be a political comedian

8:52

and his politics were always way

8:55

left. And he was thrown off

8:57

to Johnny Carson Show for telling a

8:59

joke that they told them not to tell. And

9:01

the way we met, he was hanging

9:03

out at the Intercontinental Hotel because he always

9:06

liked to be in the middle of things, and he saw

9:08

me walking through it wearing a little hat

9:10

and a pretty floral cotton dress,

9:12

and under his breath he says, where does she think

9:14

she is on the east side? And

9:17

I looked at him and I said, no, I'm

9:19

in Monagua. You're on my turf.

9:21

Where are you from. That's how the friendship

9:24

began, and for the next twelve

9:26

to fifteen years, every time he'd

9:28

come to Nicaragua, he would stay in my quarters

9:31

or the office, he'd hang out, and

9:33

he became just a fixture among

9:36

all the journalists, some of them liked

9:38

him, some of them hated him, depending

9:40

on your politics. He loved to

9:43

just hang out and be a part of everything.

9:45

He was the comedic relief during

9:48

those war years. He could make

9:50

you laugh no matter what.

9:51

He casually count.

9:52

You had three hundred thousand Iraqis killed.

9:54

By the Allies and you had one hundred and forty.

9:56

Eight Allies killed by the Allies, and.

10:00

Bush is still working on the guy's name sat

10:03

Tam Hassen, Satan Hassen,

10:06

Sandino Hasidic.

10:09

We are not at war with that people of Iraq.

10:11

We are at war with the Iraqi papal.

10:16

He could do Impressions, he could do Reagan,

10:19

he could do Ortega, he could do anybody.

10:22

Isn't it ironic though, that he's

10:25

sort of defined himself with the far left

10:27

politics and comedy and ends

10:29

up being a tool for the right

10:32

at this time of his life.

10:33

Because he had no idea that that's what

10:35

was going on. I told him from the beginning,

10:38

I said, you're going to get in trouble if you're

10:40

dealing with Roger Stone Julian

10:42

Assange. Oh no, you don't know what

10:44

you're talking about. And here

10:47

we are. Man, He's still

10:49

struggling because of all of that.

10:51

It's important to note that before all this bullshit

10:53

with Roger Stone at Wiki Leaks, Randy

10:56

Kretico had dedicated his life to helping

10:58

the poor, expanding public house fighting,

11:01

mass incarceration, criminal justice

11:03

reform, and so many things that matter

11:05

to everyday Americans, and

11:07

I want to honor that. You

11:10

know, one time I was sitting in a Chili's in Abbeyville,

11:12

Louisiana, with the wife and kids, getting

11:15

ready to order some burgers. In

11:17

walked four guys dressed like commandos, carrying

11:20

AR fifteen's, you know

11:22

the types. For some reason,

11:25

it reminds me of this story, another

11:27

kind of tourism.

11:28

It's a crazy story. So all

11:31

these years, everybody's covering

11:33

war. Everybody wants

11:35

the big story, and we all

11:37

knew what the big story was. It

11:40

was just proving it. And the big story

11:42

was us involvement in trying

11:45

to overthrow a government. We

11:47

all knew it, and everyone knew what was going

11:49

on. You can't prove it, you

11:51

can't take film of it, you can't take video,

11:54

you can't take pictures. One day

11:56

we're summoned, the journalists are summoned

11:58

by State security, a

12:01

US mercenary working

12:04

for the CIA has been caught

12:06

trying to overthrow the Nicaraguan

12:09

government. We knew it was going to be a dog

12:11

and pony show. You know they're going to

12:13

make a big deal about it.

12:14

At that moment, you don't know what it's about.

12:16

We don't know what it's about. It could be something

12:18

big. But remember we would be called

12:21

to press conferences all the time.

12:23

You never knew what the story was

12:25

going to be. So when we get there, you've

12:28

got this obviously American

12:30

guy looking very scared

12:32

and very distraught, sitting

12:35

next to heads of State

12:37

Security the Secret Police.

12:40

Sam Hall was a silver medallist in the nineteen

12:42

sixty Olympics in Rome and a former

12:44

member of the Ohio House of Representatives,

12:47

which makes the story even crazier.

12:49

The State Security guy makes

12:51

a statement and his name was Lenine Serno.

12:54

He proceeds to tell us how this

12:56

is an American that's been caught near

12:58

the border try to infiltrate

13:01

and do some terrorist acts

13:03

on Nicaraguan soil at the

13:05

behest of the US government.

13:07

So everybody's thinking, oh

13:09

wow, this is this is big.

13:12

So Lenin Serena tells the

13:14

guy to give some background on

13:17

himself. Well, right away, I'm like,

13:19

who's told by their captors?

13:21

Can you give background on yourself?

13:24

Obviously he had been questioned and interrogated

13:26

by them. So the guy starts to tell

13:29

us how he has

13:31

worked covertly for the

13:33

CIA and for different

13:35

places in the world.

13:37

The Washington Post reported on Hall's arrest.

13:41

Sam Hall, an American, claimed

13:43

he was on a spy mission after he was arrested

13:45

last month in a restricted military area

13:48

near Managua. Nicaraguan officials

13:50

said after Hall's arrest near the punte Je

13:52

Airbase, thirteen miles northeast

13:54

of Managua, that he had maps of the installation

13:57

in his shoe. Hall said at a news

13:59

conference in Mina that he was spying on

14:01

military installations on behalf of

14:03

three men code named Tinker,

14:06

Evers and Chance. He also

14:08

claimed in a CBS News interview that

14:10

he was the only remaining member of the Phoenix

14:12

Battalion, which he described as a

14:15

counter terrorist paramilitary organization.

14:18

And he says that he went to the Sixth Day War

14:20

in Israel, but he got there on the seventh

14:22

day. Well, everybody starts either

14:25

laughing or they can't believe

14:27

what they're hearing or they're not understanding

14:30

what they're hearing. And he says

14:32

he had been an Olympic swimmer, and

14:34

I mean, the story just kept going in

14:37

all kinds of different directions. But

14:39

he had been caught with a map

14:42

in his shoe and he said he was

14:44

just using it for his arches. I

14:46

mean, this guy was just coming across

14:48

as a bona fide kook. This

14:50

is not going the way the Sandinista

14:53

government thinks it's going to go.

14:55

This guy has no connection

14:57

to the CIA. This guy is not

15:00

working for the US government. This

15:02

is some kind of lone kook out

15:04

there on a great adventure.

15:06

You ended up in Nicaragua, inside

15:09

Sandinista army base, arrested,

15:11

captured, whatever stopped held.

15:14

Got to put it real bluntly, they said you were crazy.

15:17

Anybody in this business has to be a little bit crazy. The

15:19

reason they were saying that I was never allowed to say. I had to

15:21

sign a disavowl agreement in nineteen eighty four, the

15:23

CIA says, and I've talked to them, says you

15:25

weren't reporting to them. But of course that's on the surface,

15:28

but.

15:28

That's part of the disabown.

15:29

I knew I would be disabout I didn't care.

15:31

I'm looking at the head of the secret Police

15:34

and I'm looking at him and I'm just shaking

15:36

my head and kind of making a motion

15:38

across my neck saying

15:40

cut. This is not going

15:43

the way you guys think it's going. All

15:45

of a sudden, the head of the secret Police

15:48

stands up says, that's the end of

15:50

this press conference, no more

15:52

questions, no more anything.

15:54

They quickly took this guy away.

15:57

So you're basically signaling

16:00

to the head of the secret police

16:02

that this is fucking nuts.

16:04

This is nuts. This is not a story

16:06

you want out there.

16:07

And he's looking at you, going oops.

16:09

He's looking at me the whole time for

16:11

guidance, because I don't think he spoke good

16:13

English, and so when I make the motion

16:16

cut, he knew cut. He

16:18

didn't know why, but he knew cut.

16:21

And then of course he found out that this guy

16:23

was a kook.

16:24

But Mario called him a wanna be spy.

16:26

That's what he was, A wanna be spy,

16:29

A wanna be mercenary. I wanna

16:31

be That was it.

16:33

That was kind of a thing too in Nicaragua,

16:35

wasn't it.

16:35

Yeah, just like the people would want

16:37

to fly there to check out the revolution,

16:40

you know, famous people and politicians.

16:43

He also had nutcases trying

16:45

to be a part of the story, just

16:47

like you had people that playing like they were

16:49

journalists. It was sort of a free for

16:52

all.

16:53

It kind of reminds me of like right now or'

16:55

is these guys that their flack jackets on and

16:57

play like they're like military and they're walking

16:59

around and.

17:00

Starbucks with the AR fifteen

17:02

and yeah.

17:03

Except it's in Nicaragua and that really

17:05

is a war going on. Yeah, how did

17:07

it play out? Do you remember?

17:09

I think that they just let him go.

17:11

That's hilarious to me.

17:12

It was just an insane story.

17:15

You know. The weird thing about this particular

17:17

story. It's a very small little footnote

17:19

and a very bigger story. But the

17:22

head of the secret police is taking

17:24

a cue from you.

17:25

I thought that was funny too. I sort

17:27

of felt like you had to help him. I need

17:29

to help this guy. He's drowning here,

17:32

and he doesn't even realize that he's drowning.

17:35

I don't know if Sam Hall was full of shit or

17:37

what the fuck he was doing in Nicaragua, but

17:40

he was a self proclaimed patriot

17:42

and freedom fighter. Sound familiar

17:47

coming up. Cookie

17:49

gets arrested, and that's

17:52

the easy part. We'll be right

17:54

back. Welcome

18:12

back. Cookie's

18:14

been living the highlight for a long time, always

18:17

managing to stay a couple of steps ahead of the law.

18:21

Her luck is about to run out. Obviously,

18:25

you were always out in the world. You always

18:27

had your party favors with you.

18:29

Correct. But usually when I did stories,

18:32

when I was in the field, I wasn't

18:34

partying. Well. On this one trip,

18:37

I forget what crew I was with.

18:39

I do remember what producer had

18:41

been flown in. John Seiseloff

18:44

was his name.

18:45

You might remember him from episode four when

18:47

he had to file a bullshit story about cookies

18:50

helicopter crash under pressure from

18:52

the Sandinistas.

18:53

We're in the middle of nowhere, in

18:55

the mountains.

18:56

Somewhere covering what, just.

18:59

Looking for a story. It wasn't

19:01

all the time a big story

19:03

or a breaking news story. The day

19:06

to day was usually just covering

19:08

your ass, looking for something,

19:11

possibly stumbling into something.

19:13

I don't know where. We were, probably

19:16

some shithole. And now remember I had

19:18

a little weed in one of those

19:20

plastic film cases. We've

19:22

been smoking. You know, the crew, myself,

19:25

not the producer, he was a really straight

19:28

laced kind of guy. A soldier

19:31

apparently smelled the weed,

19:33

whether it was on myself or the

19:36

crew or somebody, and

19:38

they decided she's got drugs on her,

19:41

which I did. It was just a little weed. So

19:43

when we get back to the barracks, he

19:46

rats me out. All of a sudden,

19:49

I'm confronted by the head of the battalion

19:51

or whatever it was, and he says,

19:53

we know you have marijuana. Your

19:56

crew was seen smoking

19:58

it. We're gonna take you in.

20:00

Probably should remind people that they are

20:03

very strict drug laws in Sandinista,

20:05

Nicaragua.

20:05

Yeah, there are no drugs. I would have to

20:08

import drugs from the United States

20:10

to Nicaragua. The next thing I

20:12

know, the commander and I

20:14

guess what they call their MPs come

20:17

grab me by both arms and

20:19

they're gonna lead me away to I

20:22

don't know, jail whatever

20:25

on the base. And I know at

20:27

that moment, I've got this plastic

20:29

film case on me and I got to get rid

20:31

of it between right now

20:34

and wherever it is they're taking me. Now, remember

20:36

we're in the middle of nowhere. This is all

20:38

every man for himself. Oh, I'm

20:41

in charge. No, I'm in charge kind

20:43

of thing. So as we're walking,

20:45

I don't even know how far I've got to

20:47

walk, but I know I got to act quickly.

20:50

I play like a trip to get the film

20:52

case out of my pocket. So now

20:55

it's in my hand and I'm being held

20:57

by my arms, not by my hand, and

20:59

I've got fist clenched so that

21:01

it doesn't look suspicious. And so

21:03

I know that I have to fall again and

21:05

get rid of this film container

21:08

and somehow get rid of it. I can't

21:11

throw it because they'll see it. I

21:13

make myself fall again, and as

21:15

I fall, I make sure that I

21:17

take that film case and just bury

21:20

it in the mud, because again

21:22

we're in the jungles. There's no roads,

21:24

there's no highways, it's just

21:27

dirt. And then I got up

21:29

and I'm acting like I hurt myself,

21:31

and they're all trying to help me, the soldiers,

21:34

so they take me to the Comandante. I of

21:36

course call the guy that turned me in

21:38

a liar. You know, he must hate

21:40

Americans. When I'm with the commandante

21:44

and he's searching me and

21:46

everything, I said, listen, all you need to do

21:48

is make a call to the president. What

21:51

president, President Ortega and

21:53

he'll vouch for me. And they're

21:55

like, listen to this one and saying, what call

21:58

the president? I said he would be who

22:00

of you guys to get in touch with

22:02

someone that can get in touch with the president.

22:05

And they're like, yeah, right, I

22:07

need you to contact President Danielle

22:09

or Tega. And I just kept saying

22:11

it over and over,

22:14

and I remember one of them said, she's

22:16

still high. She's claiming she knows

22:18

Danielle Ortega, the president, our

22:21

president. And I just kept saying it

22:23

over and over, and finally somebody

22:26

must have said to themselves, there must be

22:29

something to this. Maybe

22:31

there is, Maybe there is it, but it would behoove

22:33

us to follow up on it. And

22:35

I saw a couple of guys leave where

22:37

they were holding me, and I would say, about

22:40

forty minutes later, comes

22:42

walking in the producer and

22:45

we're being escorted out and set

22:47

free. Guess what they did. They

22:49

contacted President Danielle or Tega's

22:51

people, and he told them to immediately,

22:54

if not sooner, let her

22:57

out. You guys are in trouble, in

23:00

trouble for doing the right thing.

23:03

That was probably the only time in that guy's life that

23:05

he talked to those kind of people.

23:07

Yes, yes, and

23:09

then John seiselof and I thank him

23:11

till this day also rest in peace.

23:14

You know. I begged him, please don't turn me in

23:16

to CBS because I'll lose my job.

23:19

He also knew that he could lose

23:21

his job because he allowed these

23:23

shenanigans to go on. He

23:25

never said anything, obviously, the crew

23:27

never said anything after that.

23:30

They treated me with kid gloves.

23:32

The producer you're with, he obviously didn't smoke

23:34

weed. He wasn't. No, he wasn't the kind

23:36

that you were partying.

23:37

No, he was a Quaker in

23:39

fact, or a Mormon or something

23:41

like that.

23:42

Oh my god, I just found my new sitcom idea

23:44

Cookie and the Quaker.

23:45

Yeah, but he didn't

23:47

turn me in. And the reason I think

23:49

I could get away with all of these things,

23:52

especially with CBS people, is because

23:54

I made them all look good. The stories

23:56

I got for them made

23:59

them look good. So why

24:01

get rid or risk getting

24:03

rid of the one person that always

24:06

comes through for them and make them

24:08

look good?

24:09

Yeah? What did Dan rather say?

24:10

My secret weapon in Central America?

24:13

That says it all. Really, nothing else can be

24:15

said.

24:16

Yeah, that was it?

24:17

Nice to know people.

24:19

It was very nice to know people, and

24:21

to this day I still know people there,

24:24

and he's still the president.

24:27

Cookie talks her way out of another jam,

24:31

but her wild ways are getting noticed. The

24:33

Sandinista government is watching her.

24:38

So one day I'm in my office. There's

24:40

a knock at the door and it's

24:42

this guy. I've never seen him before, and

24:45

he's not dressed in a military

24:47

uniform. He's dressed as a civilian.

24:50

And he says he needs to speak to me

24:53

about what. And he says, well, can I

24:55

come in? This is a very delicate

24:57

situation. I need to speak to you about. Sure,

25:00

come on in. And he proceeds to

25:02

tell me that he works

25:04

for state security, that there's problems

25:07

with drugs, and I freak

25:09

out. I said, I am not involved

25:11

with drugs. I do not party, I do not

25:14

do drugs. Here, take my blood

25:16

sample now, you can have it tested. If

25:19

he had done that, it would have

25:21

fit off the charts. He

25:23

says, no, no, no, you don't understand.

25:26

I said, I understand. You're accusing

25:28

me of something. He goes, I am not accusing

25:31

you of anything. You need to

25:33

calm down and let me explain why I'm

25:35

here. I said, okay. He

25:38

says. By the way, my nom

25:40

de guere is jughead

25:42

in Spanish doroomlo, that's what

25:45

you could call me. And he says,

25:47

this is the problem we are having

25:49

right now with you. We have rounded

25:52

up about twenty of these society

25:55

kids, you know, for drugs,

25:57

dealing while partying, whatever.

26:00

They became too obvious. So

26:03

we've got about twenty of these people in

26:05

jail. Well, what does that have to

26:07

do with me? He says, Well, you know them?

26:10

I said, well, I know a lot of people. He says,

26:12

yeah, But they're all saying your

26:14

name, that they hang out

26:16

with you, that they party with you.

26:19

I said, I know a lot of people. I grew

26:21

up with a lot of these people. They could

26:23

say whatever they want to say. Maybe they think

26:25

it's going to get them out of trouble. He says. I

26:28

still think that you don't understand

26:30

why I'm here. The reason I

26:32

am here is that we as

26:34

the government have no problem

26:36

with you partying. And I'm just like

26:39

slowly going into shock here. Is

26:42

this some sort of ambush? Is this some sort

26:44

of test? He says, we

26:46

know what you do. We don't have a problem

26:49

with it. In fact, if

26:51

you need supplies. We

26:53

could furnish you with party

26:55

favors whenever you need. And

26:57

I'm like, whoa, whoa, This does

27:00

not sound right to me. He

27:02

says. The other part of the

27:04

problem is that besides these people

27:07

saying your name, we can't have that.

27:10

We cannot have people

27:12

in jails saying your

27:15

name and that they party with you. So

27:17

what we're asking you is a couple

27:20

of things. To please be

27:22

more discreet. Stop

27:25

partying with known people

27:27

that could possibly get in trouble with

27:29

us. Just party

27:32

quietly. Party with your

27:34

journalist friends, stop partying

27:36

with the society kids.

27:39

And again he says, I

27:41

reiterate, if you ever need anything

27:44

so you don't have to go out there

27:46

publicly looking for merchandise,

27:49

contact me and I will

27:51

supply you with whatever you want. And

27:54

I'm like, are you serious?

27:55

Is that?

27:55

Are you basically telling me government

27:58

sanction drug use and

28:01

you'll supply it. He says, that's

28:03

exactly what I mean. And I

28:05

am your contact, and I will be

28:07

around keeping an eye on you

28:09

from a distance, and you could

28:12

call me anytime, night or day for

28:14

anything. And we became very

28:16

close friends. Within six

28:19

months, he was partying two We

28:22

drew him over to the dark side.

28:24

So you corrupted him.

28:26

Absolutely. I tend to have that effect

28:28

on people. I corrupted

28:30

him. He was my guy

28:33

for years.

28:35

You said a lot of crazy things in this podcast.

28:38

That's insane, right, That's that's pretty

28:40

far out there.

28:41

That is I mean. And I couldn't

28:43

have asked for anything better. Okay,

28:47

Well, yeah, anything I

28:50

wanted, weed, coke, anything.

28:53

I did know that they had wiped out drugs

28:56

and drug use in the country.

28:58

Well, it's kind of funny because you

29:00

know you're in Nicaragua. You think you'd be able to get

29:02

a.

29:02

Great drugs nothing impossible.

29:05

How did you How did you I would have to fly.

29:08

To the US, buy

29:10

by drugs, import them

29:13

into Nicaragua.

29:14

I heard you had a couple of little clever ways

29:16

of getting them in.

29:17

Well, sure, if it wasn't myself literally

29:21

flying to the States and bringing

29:23

them in myself, I would get other

29:25

journalists. They would bring their own and

29:27

share. You know, I would get family

29:30

and friends in Miami to drop

29:33

off clothes and videos

29:36

and dolls to the CBS

29:39

office and CBS unnoingly

29:41

with ship stuff to me, not

29:44

knowing that.

29:45

So you were you were sneaking cocaine in through

29:47

clothes, dolls, tapes.

29:49

And when I say tapes, I don't mean the

29:52

CBS tapes. I'm talking

29:54

about MTV, you know, stuff

29:56

that I would get people to tape for me.

29:58

Here's the thought. Do you think to Moss

30:01

poor hey he knew about that?

30:03

I would probably think he did.

30:05

Is it easier to smuggle coke out of the

30:07

United States than it is to smuggle it in?

30:09

Absolutely? Because

30:12

I knew that nothing could happen to me. Nothing.

30:15

And then let's say I got caught. You

30:18

think I would have spent one moment in trouble.

30:21

I had jugad.

30:23

She has jugaad. Why

30:25

doesn't that sound comforting, Well,

30:28

it certainly sounds like Cookie has it all under

30:30

control. Nope,

30:34

her life is about to change and she

30:36

might just lose everything she's fought for, including

30:39

her life. We'll be right

30:42

back, welcome

30:51

back. Cookie is about

30:54

to meet one of the great loves of her life.

30:57

The question is will she survive

30:59

it? Buckle up. So

31:02

I know you've been married a few times.

31:05

You've had many romantic adventures

31:07

in your life.

31:07

I've found mister Wraich thirty three times.

31:12

But there was one guy in Nicaragua

31:14

and Central America that you spent a lot of time

31:16

with that you were very close to. Let's talk about

31:19

John Basco. Tell me about who he was,

31:21

what he did, and how you guys got together.

31:24

John worked as a cameraman

31:26

for NBC. His specialty

31:28

was war. He was always being shipped to

31:30

war zones and then for a time

31:33

he was constantly in Nicaragua

31:36

and El Salvador as well. You know,

31:38

he had been told when you get to Nicaragua,

31:40

you have to go to the CBS office. That's

31:43

the chick that is going to be your best connection,

31:46

not just for business

31:48

and the news, but she's going to be your

31:50

best connection for anything

31:53

else. She and her office are the place

31:55

to be and to be seen. He

31:57

came down and introduced himself

32:00

one day to the CBS office.

32:02

I thought he was cute. I'm going to say

32:05

right now. He kind of couldn't take his eyes

32:07

off me. And I could tell she

32:09

was.

32:09

Running the CBS office and so she

32:11

was a hot Tamali. You know what drew

32:14

me to her was her great

32:16

physical beauty, really,

32:19

and she was tall and slender, and she

32:21

was real pretty. She was crazy and wild

32:24

and everything. You know,

32:26

she was smart, she had all the connections,

32:29

she had all the power. She was

32:31

a lot of fun to hang out with, So

32:33

I mean, how could you not be attracted

32:36

to her?

32:36

You know what I mean?

32:37

I think everybody was attracted to her.

32:39

We sort of started flirting back

32:41

and forth, and no matter what job

32:44

or junket or peace that we would

32:46

all be working on, he'd always wind

32:49

up every day in my office

32:51

end of business. We had a

32:53

lot of the same likes.

32:56

We like to drink, we like to

32:58

party, we like to do drugs.

33:00

So we hit it off immediately.

33:03

Even though he was a quiet, shy

33:05

kind of guy, but he had a presence

33:08

and I was the complete opposite. Not

33:11

shy, not quiet, and I had a

33:13

big presence. He told me later

33:15

that he had been told stay away

33:17

from her. She'll like the songs

33:20

that she'll eat you, chew you up

33:22

and spit you out.

33:23

Yeah, what was your nickname?

33:24

Man eater? My crews always

33:27

knew that if I set my sights

33:29

on someone, that was the end of them.

33:32

He had been told that he had been mourned, so

33:34

he kept his kind of cautious distance

33:36

from me in that aspect. But then

33:38

it was inevitable. We got together.

33:41

It was fabulous. It was a world win

33:44

relationship. We simply

33:46

adored each other in all aspects,

33:49

not just because we would help each

33:51

other out in the news. I always

33:54

made and got stuff that we

33:56

both needed to party. It

33:58

was just inevitable that we would get together.

34:01

And it was always a lot of fun to hear. We

34:03

were going to be as signed to go to Monagua

34:05

because Cookie would be there. So here

34:07

you go, Great, we'll see Cookie.

34:10

That's how it worked, not because she's

34:12

my friend and she's you know, my girlfriend,

34:15

but besides that, even other people, you're

34:17

gonna go to Monogua, Great, we'll see Cookie.

34:20

And I think he actually pushed for

34:22

assignments in Monagua.

34:24

He said he didn't really like Nicaragua.

34:26

Of all the places he went to, he wanted

34:29

to go there because he knew he was gonna have so much fun.

34:31

I can't stress enough that it

34:33

wasn't just about the partying.

34:35

It was the camaraderie that

34:37

we all had.

34:39

In a war zone. You

34:41

need to have love, you know, you

34:43

need to have friendship. It's very very

34:46

important because you don't have anything else. So

34:48

the spiritual thing between me and Cookie was like

34:50

that. It was a desperate spiritual

34:53

connection to make it through

34:55

what we were going through. We were together

34:57

for putting sab on the wounds.

35:00

I needed that and she provided

35:02

it.

35:02

You know.

35:03

I think maybe I provided it to her too in

35:05

a way.

35:05

Maybe we said the word love, maybe we

35:07

didn't, But I always thought of him

35:10

as that love interest in

35:12

my life there and it was different.

35:14

And I think he was also surprised

35:17

because he was also a very kind

35:19

of slam bam, thank you ma'am kind

35:22

of guy, which is why surprisingly

35:24

we didn't even jump into bed together for

35:27

months. You know, we'd sleep in

35:30

the same bed. It was almost

35:32

as if we were going to do things differently,

35:34

which made it that much more exciting. I

35:37

looked at him as my soulmate. He also

35:40

had that feeling for me.

35:43

Things were heating up between them, but

35:45

they're already starting the spiral. They

35:48

decided they needed to get away from Anagua.

35:51

We decided we were going to go on R and R

35:53

to Honduras. It's funny

35:55

that we would think that going to another war toward

35:58

country would be R and R. But

36:00

yeah, we went to a beach called

36:03

Roatan in Honduras.

36:06

John didn't even remember the end result

36:08

of that trip. He remembered something

36:10

bad happened.

36:12

Do you remember the incident.

36:13

That's well, we were just partying,

36:15

and we were loud, and we

36:17

weren't your normal variety

36:20

tourist partier.

36:23

Okay, here we go. This

36:26

is where it starts to get weird.

36:28

I thought it was going to be very funny

36:30

if Cookie got in the baby crip in our

36:32

hotel room.

36:34

This is a little embarrassing. We would role

36:36

play a lot. I think the

36:38

crib was supposed to be like a jail.

36:41

Can you imagine her squatting down a baby

36:43

crib, looking out of the bars

36:46

like she's in prison or something. I said,

36:48

Cookie, you should get in that crib. This is where

36:50

you belong.

36:51

This tells you how high we were.

36:53

This is gonna be good for you. And she

36:55

said, no, no, no, I'm not doing that. I'm not doing

36:57

that. Come on, Cookie, get in the crib.

37:00

I still didn't get it. You know

37:02

why that would be eternal.

37:04

He said, you wouldn't do it.

37:05

Well, yeah, but eventually I did.

37:07

He said he was kind of yelling and acting

37:09

crazy to get you to do it.

37:11

Yeah, and I eventually I did.

37:13

Early that's the night where a lot of complaints

37:15

came in, a.

37:16

Lot of complaints came in and believe me,

37:18

we had the top of the line accommodations.

37:21

We were throwing money around like there was no

37:24

tomorrow.

37:25

And then it ended up with you guys should leave

37:27

here and never come back.

37:29

Were you being pretty boisterous in there?

37:31

I guess we were.

37:32

So we got escorted out of the country. He

37:34

thought that we had just been escorted out of the hotel.

37:37

I said, no, John, it was the hotel,

37:40

the city, and the country.

37:42

You know, sometimes when you're really

37:44

really been like partying

37:47

or doing war, I

37:50

mean that goes along with it, you just get

37:52

kind of whacked out of your head. You know, you don't

37:54

really relate the way

37:56

you should in a normal world, you

37:58

know what I mean. So even on a big you don't

38:01

act the way you should act, and you don't

38:03

realize that you're being so weird

38:05

or so strange, you know,

38:07

But that's what it was. It was like a big wake up

38:10

calling, Wow, you're telling us

38:12

to leave this island.

38:14

It took I think about a year or two before

38:16

we could go back to Honduras.

38:19

Funny story, but it was getting harder

38:21

and harder for Cookie to hide her demons,

38:24

and it was becoming all too public.

38:26

In Nicaragua, there's this huge

38:29

mansion on a hill. It's called La Casona,

38:32

the Big House. This was property

38:35

that Roosevelt least

38:37

for one hundred years, so it was US

38:40

soil and it was part of the embassy

38:43

in a different location. So every

38:45

Fourth of July or any kind of American

38:48

holiday, the US Embassy would

38:50

throw big shin digs. Local

38:53

people, local journalists,

38:55

international journalists, government

38:57

dignitaries would all be invited. There's

39:00

one particular Fourth of July, big

39:02

celebration, always lots

39:04

of great.

39:05

Food and fireworks and all.

39:07

That fireworks, hot dogs,

39:09

anything you can imagine for you

39:11

know, a Fourth of July party. Well,

39:14

myself and two NBC

39:17

crew members were there

39:19

with me, cameraman John Basco

39:22

and sundman Juan Caldera,

39:25

whose sister ran the NBC office

39:27

in Nicaragua. A stroke of midnight,

39:30

the party's over. Well by that time,

39:33

I'm so paranoid. I can't move. I'm

39:35

in full riga mortis. I'm sitting

39:37

on a sofa. I cannot move.

39:40

I know that if I stepped foot off the US

39:42

property, I'm going to be arrested.

39:44

And why are you so paranoid?

39:45

Because I'm partying.

39:47

I'm doing cocaine, like

39:49

massive quantities.

39:51

Obviously enough to make me

39:53

not be able to get up off the sofa.

39:55

And here's John Basco and here's Juan

39:58

Caldera saying, Cookie, you

40:00

know they're closing up. You got to

40:02

go. We've got to get you out of here.

40:05

It's starting to look weird. You

40:07

know.

40:08

She goes to embassy party, she does a lot of coke,

40:10

gets too hot and freezes until

40:13

you like calm down a little bit and then you can like

40:16

kind of shuffle out of the room

40:18

hopefully and nobody notices too much.

40:20

How long were you sitting there?

40:22

Hours? Hours?

40:25

And then the party ended and I must have sat there

40:27

another hour. And the Marines they

40:29

need to go, they need to empty out the place.

40:32

Is this one of those things where the lights are going off and.

40:34

The lights are going off, you know? Last

40:36

call was an hour ago. Oh

40:39

I'm not feeling well. I can't move,

40:41

but my two friends finally got me off the

40:43

sofa and out.

40:45

Happy fourth of July.

40:46

Happy fourth of July.

40:51

I asked Alejandro Belly, Cookie's close

40:53

friend and CBS assistant, if

40:55

he was worried about her.

40:57

I was concerned especially when she

40:59

was she was with Vascal, I

41:02

mean, Vasco was not very good news

41:04

for her because she was totally She

41:06

loved that disaster. She loved

41:08

that chaos, and he was, you

41:11

know.

41:11

Sexy for her.

41:14

She had all the danger written all around

41:16

and she loved that.

41:18

Did it become to define your relationship

41:21

too much? Were you good for each other? Were you bad

41:23

for each other? Was it both both?

41:25

We were great for each other because we were

41:27

so made, we had so much in common.

41:30

We kind of thrived off of each

41:32

other. The partying did get

41:35

to be excessive.

41:37

Did you kind of go farther with him than

41:39

you probably were used to?

41:41

Yes, and farther with him than I

41:43

had ever and to this day never have

41:45

repeated some of the things

41:47

that we did.

41:48

Was it scary?

41:49

Of course it was, I mean it was. It was

41:52

great. It was intense because

41:54

our relationship was intense on every

41:58

fucking level. It

42:00

wasn't the normal dating, It wasn't

42:02

the normal party. Every aspect

42:05

of our relationship was the

42:07

most intense that you could be

42:09

in any relationship.

42:15

He told me he was worried about you at one point.

42:17

As any good attic, we each

42:19

thought we had it under control.

42:22

Well, that's why I ask if maybe you weren't

42:24

always good for each other.

42:25

Was it to the level of toxic? But

42:29

it was heading in that direction.

42:32

Look, I was crazy and I was doing this shit

42:34

I was doing, but I didn't

42:36

have it that deep. It seemed to me like

42:38

Cookie had that element

42:40

of her personality was deep, so

42:43

she would just die and I could see that,

42:45

and it scared me.

42:47

Cookies demons have finally caught up with her.

42:50

Is the party over? We'll

42:53

be right back, Welcome

43:04

back. Cookie's

43:07

facing the biggest challenge of her life.

43:09

I know she's a badass, but so

43:12

is addiction.

43:14

So obviously I had problems with drugs.

43:16

We all know this by now. As

43:19

I've said before, war journalists

43:22

they're always partying. They work

43:24

hard, they party harder because you never know

43:26

when you're going to die, when it's going to be your last

43:28

story, your last day on earth. It's

43:31

not like I was the only person. And that's

43:33

not to detract from my failings.

43:36

Everyone partied drinking

43:39

drugs. Not everybody did

43:41

everything. I of course did everything.

43:43

Some of us could just stop and not

43:46

continue all night. Some of us couldn't.

43:48

I was one of the ones that they couldn't. I

43:50

thought my problem was drugs. What

43:53

I didn't realize is that I

43:55

was also an alcoholic. I had all

43:57

the telltale signs, drinking a lot,

44:00

drinking in my room, drinking

44:02

with the guys, and drinking them under

44:05

the table. CBS

44:07

decided that something needed to be done.

44:10

It's funny because you met

44:12

her in an earlier episode.

44:14

Carla Farrell, producer extraordinaire

44:17

who hired me, was now being

44:20

sent to Nicaragua to confront

44:22

me and tell me if you don't

44:24

go, you will be fired. And

44:27

I was like, go where. She says

44:29

to rehab. You've got a problem.

44:31

No, I don't have a problem. You know,

44:33

maybe I do this or that every now

44:35

and then. No, you've got a problem.

44:38

And we've got people that are concerned

44:40

about you. Because my colleagues

44:43

were also my friends, and we

44:45

all loved and cared for each other. So

44:47

it wasn't someone pointing a finger and

44:50

out of jealousy, oh we need to get written out.

44:52

It wasn't like that.

44:54

Were you fucking up a little bit?

44:56

Yeah? I knew that at any moment,

44:58

this whole house of car arts could come tumbling

45:01

down. I mean, I hadn't done any

45:03

major fucked up that caused a big

45:05

problem. But I'm sure there

45:08

were incidents that could

45:10

have been disastrous, not

45:13

just for myself but for others.

45:15

You think this was a long time coming.

45:16

In a way, it was probably coming before

45:18

I was at CBS. As you remember,

45:21

I was married to Chino, the

45:23

cartel guy, and so that was a whole

45:25

era. I was partying even before

45:28

that, you know, when I was a model in

45:30

New York City. My life has been

45:32

partying since I was fourteen. But

45:35

what people don't realize about addiction is

45:37

that you first start out whatever

45:40

substance you're using, it's your friend,

45:42

you love the way it makes you feel, and then

45:44

slowly it becomes your enemy

45:47

and you're always searching for that first high,

45:49

which you'll never get that one again.

45:52

Do you think that part of the I'll say

45:54

abuse of alcohol and or drugs

45:56

is related to the PTSD consequences

45:59

of being out there.

46:00

Covering war is a very very

46:03

hard motherfucking thing to

46:05

do. It's one thing watching shit

46:07

on TV. It's one thing living in

46:09

its city like this where there's a lot of

46:12

crime, but it's another thing living

46:14

in a war, and it's day to

46:16

day war, war,

46:18

war, and everything that comes with it.

46:21

Assassinations, torture,

46:24

you name it. Everything bad

46:26

that another human being could do to

46:28

a human being is being done

46:31

in that time. I'm sure

46:33

PTSD contributed to

46:35

it. But I was doomed from

46:37

the moment I was born.

46:38

Were your parents' alcoholics?

46:40

My daddy loved to drink. My mother did

46:42

socially accepted prescriptions

46:45

from doctors. You know valume.

46:47

She had eight kids. She took valume

46:50

three times a day. So I was doomed.

46:52

But we didn't know that back then.

46:54

Were you angry when she confronted you?

46:57

When I wasn't angry. I was defensive.

46:59

Oh come on on, Carla, you

47:01

know me. You know how we all operate.

47:05

When I first knew Cookie, I

47:07

sure knew she was a partier. I took part

47:09

in some of those parties at

47:11

the time. I never thought it was a problem in

47:13

the beginning. As I recall later

47:16

on, her level of partying was

47:19

was concerning.

47:20

Yes, the reason she was

47:22

sent is because she wasn't like that. She

47:24

wasn't a big drinker, She never did drugs.

47:27

She was always level headed and she

47:29

was always business.

47:31

Did you feel betrayed by somebody like often

47:33

is the.

47:34

Case, No, because the way it was still to

47:36

me, it was a lot of people had talked about

47:38

it.

47:38

God it you just have to picture that. There was a

47:40

discussion at the New York office.

47:43

No, the discussion was in Miami.

47:45

In Miami, Okay.

47:46

Miami cleared it with New

47:48

York because they were going to do something different.

47:51

They were going to pay and they were going

47:53

to put me in rehab. It wasn't going to be

47:55

on my dime because obviously they

47:58

felt like you just said, oh,

48:00

it's the war, it's the PTSD.

48:03

They obviously didn't know my complete

48:06

background. I mean by that time, what

48:08

I'd already been twenty years into

48:10

the game.

48:11

It's almost like getting in trouble for your own superpower.

48:14

Yeah. Yeah, I

48:17

got defensive with Carla. She

48:19

said, cookie, don't fight it. If

48:21

you don't do it, they're going.

48:22

To fire you.

48:23

Well, when you hear those words.

48:25

That's what did it.

48:26

You have your whole life wrapped up in this. You're

48:28

at the peak of your powers.

48:29

Too, exactly, And at this

48:31

point people didn't really understand everything

48:34

about addiction like they do now,

48:36

especially Carla. She had no clue about

48:38

addiction. So in her mind, it was due

48:40

to me being alone in

48:43

the war, raising kids, just

48:45

a lot of pressure. She says, Cookie,

48:47

take the gift. They're going to pay for

48:50

it. But where am I going to go? Anywhere you

48:52

want to go, she says, I recommend

48:54

Betty Ford, and I'm like, okay, that

48:56

sounds good. So I proceeded

48:58

to drink two bottles of wine,

49:01

packed my suitcase, and I

49:03

was on a flight the next morning with Carla.

49:06

She didn't take me all the way, but

49:08

she took me to Miami and made

49:11

sure that in Miami I got on the

49:13

flight to California. Because addicts

49:15

are always ah, let me get off

49:17

here, I'll go next week. They weren't going to take

49:19

that chance, so she flew with

49:22

me to Miami and made sure I got

49:24

on the flight to California.

49:27

I owe my life to Carla because she really

49:29

cared for me. She was really a good friend,

49:32

and I recently thanked her for saving my life.

49:34

I would not have had all the life

49:37

that I had after CBS

49:39

in the war had it not been for her.

49:42

Before Cookie gets to the Betty Ford clinic,

49:44

I want to introduce you to a true American

49:46

hero. On April twenty second,

49:49

nineteen seventy eight, The Washington Post

49:51

wrote this about the former first Lady. President

49:53

Gerald Ford's wife.

49:55

Betty Ford, said yesterday she is addicted

49:57

to alcohol as well as the medication that

50:00

to her treatment at Long Beach Naval Hospital.

50:02

Missus Ford, the sixty year old wife of

50:04

former President Ford, was admitted to the

50:06

California Hospitals Alcohol and Drug

50:08

Abuse Center twelve days ago. I have

50:11

found I am not only addicted to the medication

50:13

I have been taking from my arthritis, but also

50:15

to alcohol, missus Ford said in a

50:17

statement read at the hospital by a family

50:20

spokesman. Missus Ford's candor after

50:22

her operation for breast cancer in nineteen

50:24

seventy four prompted thousands of women

50:26

to seek frequent checkups and examinations.

50:29

Experts in the field of drug abuse hailed

50:31

her similar candor yesterday.

50:34

What an amazing person. Can

50:36

you imagine the courage it took for her to stand

50:38

up in front of the American people and say those.

50:41

Words, I'm Betty Ford

50:43

and I'm an alcoholic.

50:46

Thank you.

50:48

A few years later, she founded the Betty Ford Center,

50:50

a nonprofit residential treatment center

50:52

for people with substance dependents. Look,

50:55

I'm not saying she invented rehab, but

50:58

Betty Ford coming out in such a big way

51:00

paved the roads for millions of Americans to

51:02

seek the help they so badly needed. That's

51:05

a freaking hero when

51:07

you get there to the Betty Bard.

51:09

Oh, it's a wonderful story. I'm

51:11

dressed in a suit. I look fabulous.

51:14

I've got my briefcase with me. I

51:17

walk in at the reception desk.

51:20

They think I'm the new doctor or

51:22

counselor, and they said a name. We've

51:24

been expecting you, and I'm like, well, that's

51:26

not my name. Well wait, aren't you the

51:28

new counselor doctor? And

51:31

I'm like, no, I'm the new patient. So

51:34

they checked me in and I remember the

51:36

first night, we're sort of in a group

51:38

in the wreck room or whatever you call

51:41

it. There's a TV on and

51:43

it's the news, and it happened

51:45

to be on CBS. And

51:48

that day Fidel Castro had

51:50

flown into Nicaragua and he was

51:52

holding a rally with Ortega, which

51:55

I had planned to cover for

51:57

weeks.

51:58

The Washington Post this about Cashro's

52:01

visit to Nicaragua.

52:02

Sandinista leader Daniel Ortego

52:05

was inaugurated as Nicaragua's president

52:07

today, in a ceremony marked by a surprise

52:09

visit by Cuban President Fidel Castro

52:12

Ortego, reaffirmed the Sandinista's public

52:14

commitment to respect political pluralism

52:17

and private property. He said the seven

52:19

month old dialogue with the United States

52:22

represented a magnificent opportunity

52:25

to resolve the two countries' differences. In

52:27

spite of the situation, Nicaragua

52:29

is not an enemy of the United States.

52:32

So as I'm watching it, I'm screaming

52:34

kind I'm supposed to be there. That's

52:36

my story. I'm supposed to be there.

52:39

And a couple of patients turned to each other

52:42

and said, man, is she still high? I

52:44

want someone? Would she's still on?

52:47

Did you enjoy it?

52:48

You know what I did? And I picked

52:50

up the tricks and what I'm supposed to say.

52:53

And you know, there's this thing that says you got

52:55

to write your first step and write everything

52:58

a certain way, and I I knew exactly.

53:01

So I was writing other

53:03

patients first step for them

53:05

for money. It was profitable for

53:07

me in there.

53:09

How about getting something out of it?

53:11

I did obviously, I got sobriety.

53:13

And it gets you to the point where you

53:15

don't want to leave. When you first

53:18

get there, you want to leave, you want out,

53:20

but by the time it's over, you

53:22

don't want to leave because at that point

53:24

you've got your sobriety and you're scared

53:26

to go back out in the real world. You don't

53:28

know what's going to set it off, and they tell you

53:31

have to go back in the real world. Anywhere

53:33

you go, there's going to be temptation.

53:36

Looking back, would you say that it worked?

53:38

It worked for a while.

53:41

Do you know what made you start partying

53:43

again?

53:44

I'm an attic being thrown

53:46

right back into the lions

53:48

dead war, death,

53:50

destruction, partying afterwards,

53:53

still with all the same people, all

53:56

the same accoutermentt you know, to party

53:58

with it less maybe about

54:00

nine ten months.

54:02

That's actually pretty damn good, Yeah

54:04

it is.

54:05

It wasn't a structure in

54:08

war time for AA

54:10

groups, and certainly there were no

54:12

NA groups in Latin America.

54:15

It was all about the booze there. So

54:17

I did find an AA group, and

54:19

I was the only female among all

54:21

these dirt, poor humble

54:24

peasants that literally would

54:27

just be drinking and sleeping on

54:29

the streets. I really

54:31

liked it. I really did. I

54:33

said to myself, If they could do it, why

54:36

can't I.

54:37

Do you believe in AA?

54:38

I believe in that twelve step program.

54:40

Well you've been sober verse seventeen.

54:42

Seventeen years, now clean it sober?

54:44

So how long did you go hard before

54:47

you really got sober?

54:48

I mean I started at fourteen and

54:51

finished in my fifties.

54:54

Yeah, my drug of choice was weed.

54:57

I just like that. But coke, you

54:59

know, that was that was my high,

55:02

that was my jam. I snorted a piece

55:04

of sheet rock once, thinking it was it

55:06

was a rock ouch.

55:11

Well, were you run out? You're kind of looking

55:13

around get off on it? No,

55:15

it burned like motherfucker.

55:19

Cookie got help and it changed her life.

55:22

If you or someone you love is struggling with

55:24

drug or alcohol addiction, there's help

55:26

for you too. You can talk to someone

55:28

right now call one eight hundred

55:31

sixty six ' to two help day

55:33

or night and is totally confidential.

55:39

Next time on Journalista, the

55:41

smoking gun gets shot down flying over

55:44

Nicaragua and the race is on to

55:46

get the biggest story of the eighties.

55:48

I'm in Miami on vacation. I

55:50

get a call from someone in Nicaragua

55:53

was saying, have you heard.

55:55

No.

55:56

The Sandinistas have proof now

55:58

that the US is involved because they caught

56:00

an American associated

56:02

with the CIA kicking out

56:05

supplies over Contra territory.

56:08

In the skies of Nicaragua. Don't

56:11

miss the thrilling conclusion of Journalista,

56:14

The world will never be the same. The

56:19

Journalista podcast features the stories

56:21

and voice of Cookie Hood Narrated

56:23

by Steven Esteb, Produced by

56:26

Sean J. Donnelly. Executive

56:28

producers Jason Wagensback, Roy

56:30

Laughlin, and Ellen k iHeart

56:32

Executive producer Tyler Klang, Written

56:35

and edited by Steven Esteb. Music

56:38

by Jay Weigel, Associate producer

56:40

in sound design Stephen Tanti. Sound

56:42

mixing by Jesse Solon Snyder. Special

56:46

guests Lloyd Sherr, John

56:48

Basco, Alejandro Belly, and

56:51

Carla Ferrell.

56:53

This is a production of Journalista Podcast

56:56

LLC and iHeartRadio.