0:02

Eagles Entertainment.

0:06

With the Can't Pick in the NFL

0:08

Draft the Philadelphia Eagles

0:11

swickt.

0:12

You're listening to the Journey to the Draft podcast.

0:16

Welcome to the Journey the Draft Podcast. I'm your host

0:19

Fran Duffian. Today we do our final

0:21

position preview of the twenty twenty

0:23

three NFL Draft. We're talking defensive line

0:25

and edge rushers, and we're gonna do that at the top of the show

0:27

with Dane Brugler in Draft Buzz.

0:30

Dane just about a week removed from the from

0:32

the Beast to his full Draft guide being released

0:34

over at the Athletic Make sure you go check that out.

0:36

Just an outstanding, extensive resource where

0:39

you get all the info in all of these players.

0:41

And Dana and I talked through the top defensive

0:43

ends, the top defensive tackles, and talk

0:45

through what they bring to the NFL, all the top superlatives.

0:48

Guys that line up inside, guys line up outside.

0:50

They win with strength, Do they win with power? Do they win

0:52

with athleticism? Do they win with technique? All

0:55

the different areas that defensive line that can win, we're

0:57

talking about it here on the podcast. And

0:59

then as well, well we've got our Draft mail bag,

1:01

a question from you at home, and that is again

1:03

the best way to reach us. Head on over to

1:05

Apple Podcasts, leave us a rating, leave us

1:08

a comment, and in that comment, leave a question.

1:10

If you've got a mock draft you want us to break down our rankings,

1:12

or a question about the prospect process

1:15

or about an individual prospect,

1:17

we will answer it here on an upcoming episode.

1:20

That said, let's get into my chat with Dane. Excited

1:22

to talk with him. Now it's time for Draft Buzz.

1:27

Now it's time for Draft Buzz.

1:32

All right, joining me here for Draft Buzz, the one

1:34

and only Dan Brugler, Dame, you

1:36

were about a week removed from the Beast being dropped.

1:38

We're talking on on Monday afternoon. It's

1:40

got to feel good.

1:41

Though. I made a joke to you last week. I feel

1:43

like a lot of.

1:44

People in the media almost treat the Beast

1:46

like an NFL team does. Those those medical

1:49

meetings, the you know, two weeks before the draft,

1:51

where you know you feel good about a player, but

1:53

you don't quite know until you get that final

1:56

bit of information, that medical information. I

1:58

know, talking with media folks are around the business.

2:00

Everybody waiting with Bavid breath

2:03

for the beast. So it's got to feel good just to be able to get that puppy

2:05

out the door.

2:06

No, it's definitely humbling to hear that. You

2:08

know. It's when you work on something

2:10

for a year, it just finally

2:12

be able to share it. It definitely is

2:15

a great feeling. And so if

2:17

you find a typo, don't tell me about it. I don't want

2:19

to know. But you know, it's

2:22

it's something that is. Whether

2:25

you agree with the rankings or not, that's

2:27

not how I want you to digest it.

2:28

I want it.

2:29

It's a resource guide, you know, it's a it's

2:31

something that you can understand.

2:34

All the information I'm getting from teams. All

2:36

the data is NFL verified. You

2:39

know, you can feel good about

2:41

the information in there as stuff

2:43

that is what NFL teams

2:45

are talking about these players. So with

2:47

that in mind, hopefully

2:49

people really enjoy this year's

2:52

version. All all three hundred and eight pages

2:54

and three hundred and fifty thousand.

2:55

Words, insane amount of players listed,

2:58

just a ridiculous amount of information. And as

3:00

I said at the top of the show, everybody go and make

3:02

sure you check out Dan's Draft guide over

3:04

on the Athletic you know, you saved

3:06

me a bunch of time because I used.

3:08

To like track all the pro day numbers and like, take

3:10

a look out.

3:10

I'll make sure, all right, yesterday's pro days, here's

3:12

the numbers from that dude. You get all

3:14

the confirmed all the confirmed test

3:16

scores. So I don't even need to like bust

3:19

my tail to try and find those numbers every single

3:21

day. I could spend my time doing other things because I know I'm

3:23

gonna get it from the beasts when it comes out. So just

3:25

outstanding work on you're at.

3:27

And it's interesting because it has

3:30

you know, if they didn't work out, it says why

3:33

it just if it's an injury, it'll

3:35

tell you why he didn't do the forty at

3:37

a pro day or The other interesting thing too, is

3:39

it says like the weight, So Jalen Duncan

3:41

was sixteen pounds heavier at his pro day than

3:43

the combine. Hmmm, I get you

3:46

know, it kind of makes you like wonder, you

3:48

know, Jordan Addison was three pounds later

3:50

at his pro day, from one seventy three to one seventy.

3:52

Like it's always interesting to look at the differences

3:55

between the combine and the pro day and you

3:57

know, trying to guess reasons why. But

4:00

it's all about information and context

4:02

and trying to make sense of it all. And you know, hopefully

4:04

the guy does that.

4:05

It takes a few days to get through it all, but well worth

4:07

it in the end. D thanks so much for putting

4:10

all the work you put into that. Now that said, enough

4:12

with the pleasantries, let's get into some d line talk

4:14

here. We're talking through the edge rushers

4:16

to start, and Dane, over the last decade, the average

4:19

number of edge rushers drafted every single

4:21

spring twenty six point nine, and

4:23

last year was well above that. You had twenty

4:26

eight thirty two. The previous year I

4:28

was well above that mark. So obviously this last

4:30

two years it was a little bit lower than that. Right,

4:32

just to kind of level things out as we sit here

4:34

today, twenty six point nine edges

4:37

drafted this year.

4:37

You're taking me over? Are you're taking me under?

4:40

Let's keep but stay consistent. Takes the over.

4:44

I mean, the edge class this year

4:46

is so deep. Doing

4:48

my seven round walk on the athletic

4:50

that's up right now. I when I was done,

4:52

I looked at like the edges that were left, and I

4:54

was like, man, I hated not getting

4:57

you know, the Iku Lioda,

4:59

the Auburn pass rusher. I hated not

5:01

including him out there. Or

5:04

you know BJ Thompson, the Steven F. Austin non

5:06

combine guy that was had

5:08

a really good Shrine Bowl week. I

5:10

mean, there's always guys that pass rushers

5:13

that teams can find room

5:15

for. And so in a draft like this where it's

5:17

a deep group, I feel

5:19

like, yeah, and I know it's a blended positions.

5:21

Also, yes, that's the thing that makes a tricky yep.

5:23

Right, but I'm still taking you over all.

5:25

Right, Well, let's get into some of these players. Now.

5:27

We'll start with our first superlative, the best pure

5:29

pass rusher. You know, when you factor in all

5:31

because honestly, when I'm looking at this

5:33

is how I do it with every position. But it's almost

5:35

like when you look at pass rushers, it's like, Okay, how do

5:37

you win?

5:38

Do you win with speed?

5:39

Can you win with power? Can you win with technique?

5:41

And can you win with effort? Those four are the

5:43

major like categories, the more of the four critical

5:45

factors to being able to win and produce

5:48

as a pass rusher, and you want to check as many of those boxes

5:50

as possible. So when you take all of it into account,

5:53

who presents the best combo skill

5:55

set?

5:55

When you look at this class, you've got the guy that day

5:57

one or day two.

5:59

And hey, you know this is as easy as Will Anderson for

6:01

me. It might not be the bendiest

6:04

edge rusher out there, and

6:06

his get off is good, not great

6:09

or amazing, but he can win

6:11

in different ways. He does have that explosiveness

6:14

out of his stance. He does he will

6:17

try to win down the middle

6:19

quite a bit, but he does have the body flexibility

6:22

where he can work for the edges. Has

6:25

power, especially for a guy

6:27

that's, you know, right around two hundred and fifty pounds.

6:29

He does give you power. Not

6:32

the longest player, but certainly long enough.

6:34

Don't have any worries about the motor

6:37

or the competitiveness. Certainly has that. So

6:39

if I want more of the complete package,

6:41

I think Will Anderson gives that to me.

6:43

It's just funny, you know, we know that how the

6:46

over analysis of players, you know that certainly

6:48

starts to take its toll, especially when we get into

6:50

the month of April. But you know, I think

6:52

people are kind of forgetting like what Will

6:54

Anderson has done over the course of his career, has

6:57

been one of the most productive players in the history

6:59

of Yes, just ridiculous numbers

7:01

posted as a pass rusher, and everybody really

7:04

kind of aspires to that. I feel like in the NFL is

7:06

like pass rush production is one of the easiest

7:08

things to kind of it's all sticky from

7:10

college to the NFL. You could project that forward,

7:12

and Anderson has produced at such a high

7:14

level. And again, because you said he checks so many

7:17

of those boxes, is it always elite

7:19

looking, you know, the flexibility in the bend and the

7:21

explosive No, no.

7:22

Not necessarily.

7:23

But this guy is wired than in the snap count. He can

7:25

create instant pushback. He's got power, he

7:28

can win with technique. I thought his hand users got a lot

7:30

better as a junior, and the effort has always

7:32

been there. So to your point, yea, this is an easy

7:34

one here for you for day one. For me, on day

7:36

three, I'm going to go to the group of five schools

7:38

and I'm going to go with Nick Hampton from Appalachian

7:40

State. A little bit undersized at six ' to two two

7:43

hundred and forty pounds, he's built like a Hassan Reddic

7:45

type when he was coming out of Temple, And I

7:47

think when you look at Hampton, the big thing is, yes,

7:50

he's got that explosive first step and he can win with speed

7:52

off the edge. But really, to me, when you watch

7:54

him as a pass rusher, everything kind of starts with his

7:56

bull rush and his long arm, and he also does

7:58

a nice job of working in some counters off of that,

8:00

some like the ghost moves and those stab slap

8:03

rips where he's gonna feign like he's gonna go with

8:05

the bull rush and get you to throw your hands as

8:07

a tackle and then he's able to beat you off

8:09

this off the top of the rush. So I think when

8:11

you look at Nick Hampton, this is a guy that can

8:13

win with speed, he can win with power even.

8:15

You know, especially with the runway.

8:17

I mentioned some of the technical proficiency we saw from

8:19

him, and then also a guy that's got a pretty good motor

8:21

as well. So Nick Hampton, I'm surprised he's

8:23

not getting a little bit more love. I think I expected him

8:25

test a little bit better at the combine

8:27

than what he did, but still tested like a good athlete

8:29

across the board.

8:30

But Nick Hampton, he's a guy that stands autter

8:32

me for this category.

8:34

Yeah, no doubt. You love to pursue. He'll

8:37

throw in a long arm move, you

8:39

know. And you can watch him against

8:42

North Carolina and how disruptiv he was

8:44

in that game. A

8:46

guy that just the motor is always

8:48

going. So yeah, I think somewhere

8:50

early fourth round, a team's gonna get pretty

8:52

good value with him.

8:53

All right, let's go to our next category here, and that's the

8:56

best power rusher. I talked about

8:58

all those different superlative, all those different bucks, it's

9:00

the pastors you're able to win. Let's start first with power.

9:02

Who's best able to win with their play strength

9:04

and their length off the edge. And for an

9:06

early round option, I'm gonna go with Tyree Wilson,

9:09

a potential top ten, potential top five, potential

9:11

top two pick in this NFL draft. We'll find

9:13

out here and just over a week. But Tyree Wilson

9:16

six five and a half, two hundred and seventy pounds, he's

9:18

got over thirty five and a half in charms, he's

9:20

got. He's an outstanding looking kid, looks

9:22

the part, no question, and kind

9:24

of a unique usage. I mean he was often lined

9:27

up off the edge in a two point stance

9:29

with a runway this year, in that first year in

9:31

that new scheme, and I feel like that kind

9:33

of showed off his athleticism, showed off his ability

9:35

to really kind of lean into his bull rush and beat

9:38

you with power.

9:39

It's not fully realized yet.

9:40

I don't think that he's a finished product as a rusher

9:42

at this point, but this is a guy who can be that

9:44

heavy end, can be a crasher

9:47

off the edge, and a lot of teams are looking for that size

9:49

and length paired with that athleticism now in

9:51

today's NFL, and Tyree Wilson certainly

9:53

brings.

9:53

That no doubt, and just

9:56

every time he rushes, it feels like he's

9:58

going downhill. It's like the fields

10:01

tilted and he's just able

10:03

to create that immediate knock

10:06

back, get blockers moving in reverse,

10:08

put him on the heels, and

10:11

yes, he's best of the battering ram,

10:14

but it's he does have some

10:16

skill worked in as well, where he saw more

10:18

and more of that as a senior. So you

10:21

know, as a bummer, we didn't get to see him test

10:23

and work out prior to the draft, but I

10:25

think the tape showed the traits and

10:28

you know, I for a lot of the reasons why Travon Walker

10:31

went won. You know, I think Tyree

10:33

Smith or Tyre Wilson is going to go somewhere

10:35

here in the first five or six picks.

10:37

Yeah, it'll be fun to watch see exactly which

10:39

team ends up with him. Does he go before Will Anderson

10:42

or after? It's gonna be interesting to see

10:44

that all play out. How about you for Day three, who's

10:47

a power rusher that stands out to you on the back end of the draft.

10:49

I'm going with that Sah Maguire from Missouri.

10:52

You know, maybe sneaks in the day two, but

10:55

kind of I think he's in the same bucket as Nick

10:57

Hampton, where probably early

10:59

day three ree fourth round. This

11:02

guy is six ' four, right around two hundred

11:04

and seventy pounds, has

11:07

some juice when he gets going, but

11:09

his ability with his hands to go through

11:12

a blocker and just throwing the Georgia tape

11:14

watching against Roderick Jones and seeing when

11:17

Broderick Jones is late with his hands, man Isaiah

11:19

Maguire right at his chest and bully

11:21

him backwards consistently. You

11:24

know, I had a scout, actually, who is

11:27

you know in the southeast, so

11:29

has Georgia has that area but doesn't

11:32

have Missouri. And he texts me, He's like, is

11:34

this Isaiah Maguire any good? Because I'm watching

11:36

this tape and Roderick Jones is

11:38

really having a lot of trouble with him. And I was like, yeah, he is

11:40

pretty good, but you know, it's

11:43

it's really interesting to see, you

11:46

know, him grow as a pass rusher.

11:48

I think the last two years we saw it a little

11:50

bit on the twenty twenty one tape, and I thought we saw it

11:52

more and more this past year as a senior.

11:55

So I think everywhere

11:57

else he's good enough. But his ability

11:59

with the heavy hands to go through rush through

12:01

blockers, that's what you are ideally

12:04

getting with the guy like this.

12:05

I don't remember where you had him in your your seven round

12:07

mock draft that dropped on Monday, but him

12:09

in San Francisco, I think is a perfect

12:12

fit from a schematic standpoint.

12:14

Then also off the field as well.

12:15

Let's get to the next category here, best speed rusher

12:17

who's best able to win with that

12:20

first step, that quickness off the ball, that snap

12:22

anticipation.

12:23

Give us an early round option for you.

12:26

I went with Nolan Smith,

12:28

obviously with him running

12:31

in the fourth threes. For a

12:34

guy that is two hundred and

12:36

thirty eight pounds to run a fourth to three to nine

12:38

at the combine and then

12:40

I mean that was kind of like a mic drop moment for him.

12:43

Didn't run a second

12:45

forty, didn't run the Pro day forty

12:47

one and a half inch vert ten eight broad. I

12:49

mean, the guy has juice, There's no question

12:51

about that. A little bit undersize, six

12:54

and forty pounds, not

12:56

the longest player, but he

12:58

is strong. He does have versatility.

13:01

He can play off the ball, can play more

13:04

of a stand up position where he's gonna read

13:06

and he's going to play in the flat and drop

13:09

a little bit. But if he's allowed

13:11

to just pin his ears back and go, I why

13:14

can't he have double digits ACKs? Pretty early

13:16

in his NFL career when he had that type of speed

13:19

off the edge and you force defenders

13:21

to you know, they know it's coming, or

13:23

excuse me, blockers where they know it's coming

13:26

and you have to defend that. Good luck. So

13:28

Nolan Smith, and that's why he's being monked

13:30

as a top ten pick this year. Is that speed

13:32

off the edge and what that kind of impact

13:34

that can provide.

13:36

Yeah, he's a guy I think when you look at like his ability

13:38

to win with speed, his ability went with power, and his

13:40

ability able to win with motor and effort checks

13:42

three of those four boxes. And I think the rush

13:45

skill, that's something that can come and you hope

13:47

that that can get better with time. But

13:49

this is a guy that I think you check so

13:51

many boxes with Nolan Smith. I'm glad you brought

13:53

him to the table for me. I'm gonna go Byron

13:55

Young, stay in the sec this one from Tennessee

13:58

and Byring Young. He's gonna be little of an older he'll be a twenty

14:00

five year old by the end of the season. But when

14:02

you look at a guy who's shot about six two and a

14:04

half two hundred and fifty pounds, he

14:07

was one of the more impressive positional workouts at

14:09

the combine. He also tested off the charts as

14:11

well. Ran in the low four fours,

14:13

jumped one hundred and thirty two inches in the broad

14:15

just for eleven foot broad jump, thirty

14:17

eight inch vertical at two hundred and fifty

14:20

pounds. Really really impressive movement skills.

14:22

And this is a guy to look He's not a finished product.

14:24

I think if you say, hey, you know, put him outside out

14:27

as a wide nine and just let him go, let him

14:29

pin his yars back and go, that's he's going to bring

14:31

you a lot of value. And I'll tell you what, like at six two

14:33

and a half for two fifty to have that

14:35

explosiveness that brings

14:38

value to the NFL or even if you're

14:40

whether you're twenty three, twenty four, or twenty

14:42

five, I don't think that that will matter too

14:44

much. Byron Young certainly has traits to develop.

14:46

I'll be interest to see how early he goes. My guess

14:49

is is due to the age, it won't be until day three.

14:52

And I think he's also in that Isaah McGuire

14:55

and by the way I had him going late third

14:57

round McGuire to the Jackson, the Jaguars

15:00

fit too, Yep, right exactly. I

15:02

think he's Nick Hampton. I think he's in that

15:05

same mix where you could see him if he

15:07

goes into late third. It's not an eye razor

15:09

or anything like that. Eyebrow razor. You

15:11

can understand why that would happen, but probably yeah,

15:14

early day three, it's just a

15:16

little one dimensional, you know, worry

15:18

about him a logan as a run defender, but man, he's

15:20

got the juice to get after the pocket

15:22

and certainly value with what he offers.

15:24

All right, next category here, best motor. Who's the

15:26

best player that wins with effort and that

15:29

urgency from the backside. And for me for an

15:31

early round option, Dan, I'll

15:33

say one guy I think I'm higher on than most

15:35

is Isaiah Foski from Notre Dame as

15:38

the guy again going back to the different ways that guys

15:40

can win. He can win with first step, he's got

15:42

good length, he leans into his bull rush, and he can

15:44

win with power. His technique I think

15:46

has gotten better over the course of his career. Still

15:48

not where it needs to be. But this guy's got a white

15:51

hot motor. He is running at all times,

15:53

so again speed power,

15:55

motor Like okay, that plays well. He's

15:57

twenty two years old, was a team captain,

16:00

a really good run defender, you know, and now

16:02

you just need him to really kind of check that box

16:04

as a rusher. But man, he's got he's

16:07

got traits to work with and that effort

16:09

really shows up. But to me, when you're looking at his his

16:11

motor, that's one of the best parts of.

16:13

His game, Oh, no doubt. And I

16:15

think, yeah, I beat him up quite a bit because I I

16:18

just don't see a pass rush plan. I don't see

16:20

uh you know, the sequencing I want to

16:22

see. Uh, it doesn't bend all

16:24

that much. It's just it's it's speed

16:27

and motor. And you know, I after

16:29

I got done beating him up, I'm like, Okay, it's I've

16:32

done that enough. What he does well,

16:34

he does really well and I can use that, no

16:36

doubt. So you know, after you

16:39

know, he ended up as like a late two for me. So

16:41

you know, there's definitely value

16:44

in that, uh, that that hustle

16:46

that he has. I mean it's just long

16:48

arm after long arm after long arm. But when

16:50

you have speed like that and you can

16:53

you can drop with a running back he did against Sean

16:55

Tucker dropped at the running the wheel route and you

16:57

know, went down the field. So he has the speed, has the

16:59

motor. Is he a traditional

17:01

first round pass rusher. No, not in my opinion.

17:04

But when you get to day two add

17:07

him to the mix, to the pass rush rotation,

17:09

I think you're you're you're doing pretty well, uh

17:11

for mine for a Day three guy in terms of

17:14

motor and and hustle. I went with kJ

17:16

Henry from Clemson. I mean the

17:18

first line of my report is high energy. That

17:20

that's what he brings. And he actually

17:23

you know, you look at that Clemson defensive line.

17:25

You see Brian Berzize, market, Miles

17:28

Murphy. Uh, you know a lot of five stars.

17:30

Uh.

17:31

kJ Henry is the guy that led that team

17:33

in quarterback pressures this year by

17:36

a healthy margin. Uh, more

17:38

so than the other guys. So he is uh,

17:41

I do question you know, as he give me an every down player

17:44

at the NFL. But as a sub

17:46

rusher, he has the burst,

17:48

has the motor. Uh. You know, he

17:50

is just a guy that won't quit. He'll get

17:53

after it snap after snap. And so I think

17:55

he's also somewhere in that that mid

17:57

round mix as a flawed pass

17:59

rusher, but a useful pass rusher.

18:01

Let's go to the next category. Best technician who's

18:03

best with their hands?

18:04

We use leverage.

18:05

Well, they've got that pass rush skill that sequencing

18:07

you referenced earlier. Rep after rep,

18:10

give us a day Day one or a day two option.

18:13

So I'm gonna go bg Augelray here. I

18:16

think he has an

18:18

understanding of how he wants

18:20

to attack blockers, you

18:22

know, and it's not just throw the kitchen sink.

18:25

He's you know, it's one hand or two. It's

18:28

timing. It's understanding. H

18:31

If I want to use a swipe, if one use a slap, I

18:33

want to use more of a ghost if

18:35

I want to you know, the way I want to use

18:38

my body and position my leverage.

18:40

I think he has just a very good understanding

18:42

of how to attack blockers. It's not the

18:44

same every time. It's you're setting up

18:46

this move, so two moves later

18:48

you can do this. I think he has a

18:50

real good understanding of that. A

18:53

very thoughtful pass rusher BG Augelary.

18:56

Yeah, he's a guy.

18:57

I want to talk about it in a little bit, so I don't want to

18:59

spill the beans there too much on how I feel about him,

19:01

but I'm I'm pretty high on bj Ojalari

19:03

as well. For me going to day three, this

19:06

guy this was a tough one because obviously when you get to

19:08

day three you're typically not dealing with the most

19:10

like precise pass rushers from a technique

19:12

standpoint. But I ended up going with Nick

19:14

Herbig from Wisconsin, who I know you had listed

19:16

in the Beasts as an off ball backer, and I know there are

19:18

a lot of people out there that.

19:19

View him that way.

19:20

Uh sixty thirty one

19:22

in a quarter inch arms like he's a He is a compact

19:25

player if you're gonna play him off the edge,

19:27

but obviously to me, like that's where he spent

19:29

most of his time, so I still had him in my edge bucket.

19:32

I do think that he's got some savvy to his game.

19:35

Uh.

19:35

He played the same role that Zach Bond did coming

19:37

out of Wisconsin, and he was a third round pick

19:39

to the Saints. So we'll see exactly where uh

19:41

Nick Herbig ends up going. He didn't

19:43

test as well as Bond, uh, and I think

19:46

that will be a little bit of an issue for him, but he was very

19:48

productive over the course of his career. I

19:50

think when you look at it, like a lot of the pass rush

19:52

win rate metrics, they're gonna paint

19:55

him in a favorable light. But when you look at

19:57

Nick Herbig, it's a lot of like high

19:59

swide, like high side swipes

20:01

and rips and chops. He'll go

20:03

like speed the power at times. He's got a decent spin

20:05

move. He's got a stop slap rip in there, so

20:08

mixing a bunch of different moves pretty crafty

20:10

at the top of the rush. So Nick herbig. It's

20:13

a little bit of a gray picture

20:15

there in terms of what position he's going to be, But I do

20:17

think there's a savvy level to him that is

20:19

admirable.

20:20

Yeah, I agree on hund percent. And he's a tough one

20:22

because his best tape is him

20:24

as an egge rusher. That's where I think you get

20:26

most excited about him. But with the

20:29

size and the testing profile,

20:31

it's hard to think

20:33

of him squarely as that. So to

20:35

get him on the field and to make the most

20:37

out of the roster spot, are you converting

20:39

him into a stand up player? Are you strictly

20:42

using him as a sub rusher. He

20:45

is a difficult player to really wrap your

20:47

hands around and get a clear picture for

20:50

what he's going to mean for every single scheme.

20:52

But he's worth the mental exercises

20:55

to figure it out because he is

20:57

fun getting after the quarterback.

20:59

All right, let's go favorite player comparisons

21:01

here, and you and I were joking off air before

21:03

we went out, just you can't help but bring up some

21:05

of your Buckeyes, your former former

21:08

Buck guys obviously being from that area

21:10

of Ohio. Though those guys typically will

21:12

come into the discussion here with the player comps and

21:14

I know you've got one for us here in this one.

21:17

Yeah.

21:17

So with Derek Hall reminds

21:20

me a lot of Jonathan Cooper when he's

21:22

coming out of Ohio State, because

21:24

Cooper was a guy that there wasn't much

21:27

mystery for him, like you know exactly

21:29

what he's what he's bringing. He's a he's a hard

21:31

charger and a very

21:33

linear rusher, and you know what that works

21:36

for him. He's far out played

21:38

being a seventh round pick for the Broncos.

21:40

And I think with Derek Call, he does a lot

21:42

of the same thing. Like if he if

21:45

Derek Hall figured out how to really

21:48

use his countermeasures, he'd be might

21:50

be a first round pick. You know, teams

21:52

rave about the character. He's just

21:54

a you know, hustle, the motor

21:57

all terrific. It's

21:59

just he's very predictable as a pass rusher.

22:01

You know what you're getting with what He's

22:04

very urgent. He wants

22:06

to get after and you know, attack, attack,

22:08

attack. If he added a little more

22:10

finesse, a little more of a

22:13

counterbalance to what he throws out there,

22:15

he would be better for it, but it's

22:18

still gonna work for him. He's still going to be somewhere

22:20

in that top seventy five mix. A team's gonna

22:22

get a really good player with Derek Hall, and

22:24

you know he's gonna be added to the pass rush

22:26

rotation, and you know, I think he's

22:28

going to be an asset for a defense.

22:32

I see you one former

22:34

Buckeye turned Denver Bronco, and I'm gonna raise

22:36

you one. So

22:39

there's one guy that's on that defense as well. Baron

22:41

Browning come from Ohio State, long

22:44

athletic, kind of a linear rusher, and

22:46

it was kind of is he going to be a sam linebacker

22:48

in the NFL? He's going to have to transition off ball?

22:50

Is he going to be a pass rusher? And there's

22:52

a player that I actually wrote down that I

22:55

wrote down Baron Browning when I was watching him, and

22:57

that's Will McDonald from Iowa State. Will

22:59

McDonald was a extremely productive

23:01

player the last three years for the Cyclones in the Big

23:03

Twelve. He is very long, he

23:06

looks the part, no question. The

23:08

athletic testing in terms of like forty yard

23:10

dash and the jumps all that stuff. That's where

23:12

he's going to stand out. He actually ran, if I remember

23:14

right from seeing the Beast, like his three cone was like crazy

23:16

crazy.

23:17

Good as well.

23:18

And I think when you look at Will McDonald, he's

23:21

not a finished product as a rusher

23:23

yet.

23:23

And there's a lot of.

23:24

Discussion about, Okay, well, what is his position fit

23:27

at the NFL, But look at the length and look at

23:29

the tools, and a lot of people were saying that about Baron

23:31

Browning. It was like, oh, what position is this guy going to play?

23:33

But the tools did not allow him to fall out

23:35

of day two, And I think that's kind of what we're looking

23:37

at here with Will McDonald. Now

23:39

he could go as early as like late round one, but

23:42

I think that's what kind of what we're talking about in terms of like

23:44

player archetype there with McDonald to Baron

23:46

Browning.

23:47

Yeah, no, I like that. I have not heard

23:49

that one yet, but that makes sense because Will McDonald's

23:52

and they were both used in interesting ways

23:54

in college where I don't think they

23:56

were ideally used, And

23:59

so you're there's a bit of a projection there with

24:01

the best way to implement all those skills

24:04

you know there's projection involved, so no,

24:07

I kind of liked that one, and I hadn't

24:09

heard it yet.

24:10

All right, let's go to our next one.

24:11

Here for the edge rusher, someone who are surprised

24:13

is not getting more love. I'll let you go first

24:16

on this one.

24:18

Yeah, yeah, Dabi and I tweeted this

24:20

during the combine when he ran a

24:23

one to five one ten yards split a

24:26

guy that's two hundred and sixty five pounds, It's like, okay,

24:29

we need to be talking more about yah At Dyabi.

24:32

I mean it was, you

24:34

know, for a guy that size,

24:36

moving that fast, and you

24:39

see flashes on tape, but he's

24:41

still figuring things out. This is a guy that after high

24:44

school he was working at the airport like he

24:46

wasn't sure what was next for him.

24:49

You know, he here,

24:51

there are a lot of he had a lot of question marks about

24:53

what he was going to be, you know, doing next.

24:55

And he's able to get a try on at

24:59

a military sc at Juco, able

25:01

to turn that into Louisville, and then this past

25:03

year fourteen tackles for lost nine sacks.

25:06

I think he's been one of the more well

25:08

traveled prospects the last month

25:10

as teams try to really figure

25:13

him out because the testing

25:15

profile, the athleticism,

25:18

the size in all points

25:20

to him being a top one hundred pick. You just have to be comfortable

25:22

with you know the guy, and by

25:24

all I've heard a lot of positive things,

25:27

and so I think when it's all said and done, he's going

25:29

to be somewhere in those Somewhere. On day

25:31

two, I think he was eighty

25:34

or somewhere on my top top one hundred around

25:37

there, but wempy surprised if he went it

25:39

even earlier, maybe even the second round.

25:41

Yeah, Tabbi is good as a fascinating players.

25:43

I think when you look at the profile, as you mentioned, you

25:45

know, from an athleticism standpoint, and then when you be

25:47

a pair of that with the film, a lot to like

25:49

there from profile standpoint.

25:51

Projecting to the NFL.

25:52

I was going to talk about b j Ojilari here, but I just

25:54

wanted to throw it a different name, and I will say, like, I really

25:56

like both bj Ojalari. I think he took

25:59

the next step here the year. This is a guy that's

26:01

got athleticism but also with length, and I

26:03

think he featured more that that that ability

26:05

to win low side here this year, and

26:07

so showed that that kind of leaned into that, is that

26:09

the fastball, and then showed some change ups

26:11

off of that.

26:12

I agree with everything you said about him a few minutes ago.

26:14

So I was gonna talk about Ojolari here, but

26:16

I'm gonna go with a player that, Look, we have

26:18

to feel confident this guy's going to go in round one,

26:20

and I don't know that everybody quite feels that

26:22

way.

26:22

And that's Keon White from Georgia Tech.

26:24

You know, whether you vom was an end or as a tackle,

26:27

he was one of the handful of players that got invited

26:29

to the NFL Draft h and he will be

26:31

there in Las Vegas or in Kansas City rather. So

26:34

I think when you're looking at ke On White, this is a hybrid

26:36

skill set. You think of like you know what Milton

26:38

Williams was coming out of Louisiana Tech for our

26:40

Eagles fans listeners as well as he had tackle, is

26:42

he an end? He's I just watched the Georgia

26:45

game and he spent a lot of time not just like lining

26:47

up over tackle, but standing up in

26:49

that game. And so I think when you look at Keon White,

26:52

interesting skill set for sure, still

26:55

areas where he needs to improve, but you got to remember too, like

26:57

only three years ago, this guy was a tight end at Old Dominion

26:59

and now is going to be a potential first

27:01

round pick as a defensive lineman coming from Georgia

27:04

Tech. And so I think when you look at Keon White, the

27:06

arrow is going to be pointing up in a lot of people's minds.

27:09

One of seventeen players invited to the draft

27:12

in Kansas City, and that's really interesting. And in

27:15

my mock I had him going the final pick in the first

27:17

of the Chiefs. I think a

27:19

lot of people are going to look at that size, look at that athletic

27:21

skill, and you're gonna you

27:24

project that forward and you feel good about

27:26

the player he's going to grow

27:28

into, even for an older guy. So I

27:31

understand the optimism with Keon White,

27:33

although the first round does seem a little rich for him.

27:35

You talked earlier about the depth of this class. A few guys

27:38

we did not mention on. Four of these guys are

27:40

in mock drafts, like two of them locks for the top

27:42

twenty. It feels like top twenty five and two

27:44

of that are like in some mock drafts on the back end,

27:46

I want you to pick one. Give us a quick elevator speech,

27:48

real fast on either Lucas van Ness from

27:51

Iowa or Miles Murphy from Clemson.

27:54

Let's go with Vaness. You know, I've

27:56

compared him to when

27:58

you're watching early nineties,

28:00

you're watching Growing Pains and you see this

28:03

Leo DiCaprio and you're like, this

28:05

guy's pretty good, like he might have a future.

28:07

You know, you're buying low with him.

28:10

And that's where with Lucas van Nests, even though he will

28:12

cost a top fifteen pick in the draft, just

28:14

still buying low based off of where

28:16

you think he can be six five, two hundred and seventy

28:18

five pounds. You know, he's

28:21

power explosive this

28:23

and he's still figuring out how to use these traits

28:26

for good and not

28:28

wasting them. But with more coaching,

28:31

you'll be able to get it out of him. And you know, a couple of

28:33

months ago, I tweeted how you know Steph Curry

28:36

and Bryce Young and

28:38

their similarities, and some people

28:40

hated that. And I'm reading these like hate

28:43

tweets and I'm like, man, these guys are gonna

28:45

hate it when I compare Lucas van Ness the Cocaine

28:47

Bear because it's

28:50

the non traditional comps throw people.

28:52

But I mean sometimes it just fits. You know, the

28:55

point of a comp is to try to give the

28:57

best visual and sometimes

29:00

you think that's out the bucks a little bit.

29:02

I mean, people will be talking about the Cocaine

29:04

Bear is one of the best picture nominees for

29:06

the Oscars next spring, so you know it needs to

29:08

be more accepting of that. For me, Miles

29:10

Murphy real fast, the big thing that you're gonna hang your hat

29:12

on with him is the high weight speed combination.

29:15

I mean, the kid looks the part. He's tall, he's broad.

29:17

Uh, he's athletic for his size especially

29:20

you know, this is a guy that can come off the ball.

29:21

He can win with strength, he can win with power.

29:23

To me, like I'd like to see him lean more into

29:26

like those low side rushes, like lean more into

29:28

your power and your ability to be a physically imposing

29:31

guy off the edge. He leans more into

29:33

like a lot of those high side rushes, which is good because

29:35

you like to be able to see a guy that have that diverse skill

29:37

set. But I think we'd be talking about him even more

29:39

if he really leaned into that power and leaned into

29:41

that ability to just kind of run through people. I

29:43

think it's there in his body, just didn't always

29:45

see it. I mean again, but like Felix

29:48

on a d. K Uzama is

29:50

in the first round mock drafts, truly two polow two

29:52

potential first round pick as well. So

29:54

there a lot of talent here in this edge

29:57

class. But that said, we got to get to the interior

29:59

guys defensive tackle on

30:01

average, name the number draft of their

30:04

twenty five point one. There were twenty

30:06

three last year, just twenty one the year before,

30:09

So we've been very shy of that number lately. And

30:11

now, as you mentioned the blurred lines between

30:13

these two positions, especially when you get into like the Keon

30:15

Whites and the Lucas van Ness's of the world. Right,

30:17

but as you as we said, here, are

30:19

we going to hit this over under a twenty five point one or

30:21

is this gonna be one of your few unders?

30:24

You know, I think it's gonna

30:26

be under. But doing my seven round, monk I

30:29

and you know, you go through team needs

30:31

and team wants and what

30:34

teams you know you could see them doing based on

30:36

trends. A lot of teams need

30:38

and want defensive tackles. They want to get more

30:40

depth up front, and

30:43

so I wouldn't be surprised if we ended

30:45

up seeing the over. I'm just not sure that the players

30:47

are there. You know, there

30:49

are a couple of players that I created as free agents

30:51

that I won't be surprised at all if we see them get drafted,

30:54

because just strictly out of the teams

30:57

want big players who can move, and

30:59

you know this, there's

31:01

a few of those guys that could end up going a little

31:03

bit earlier than we thought because of simple

31:06

supply and demand. So I'll take the under,

31:08

but wouldn't be surprised to be over all.

31:10

Right, let's go to some of these players.

31:11

Here, best pure pass rusher who's

31:13

just got that ability to get after the quarterback. We know how

31:15

much teams value that interior pressure in

31:18

today's game, and for a Day one, Day two option,

31:20

this is easy. You goo Jalen Carter up at the

31:22

top of the draft his ability to win with athleticism,

31:25

the quickness, the first step the pass rush

31:27

plan. Is only his first year as a starter,

31:29

but over the last two years has really shown

31:31

that he's one of the best players in the country. So

31:33

this is an easy one. I don't think there's a lot to break down

31:35

there. Jalen Carter is a phenomenal, phenomenal

31:38

football player, a phenomenal talent, and we'll

31:40

see where he ends up going in this draft.

31:42

For you on day three, who do you got?

31:44

I'll go with the non traditional

31:47

defensive tackle because he played mostly on the

31:49

edge of the bowling green, That's

31:52

right, and so I think you project

31:55

him more inside. You know, there

31:57

were times where he did play over the B gap,

31:59

and that quickness that

32:01

he showed on the edge, I will have no trouble

32:04

translating inside a

32:06

combine non combine guy. He's

32:08

in that conversation to be the

32:10

first non combine player drafted with

32:13

Chandler Zavala and a

32:15

couple of the guys that are in that third

32:18

fourth round mix. But you know,

32:20

he's a guy that is very

32:22

unique because he can he builds

32:24

up his momentum very quickly, so that first

32:26

step he's able to get going quickly.

32:29

He understands angles to the to the quarterback,

32:32

He understands how to use

32:34

his body. He has unique body control

32:36

and he uses it very well, so he can

32:39

not It's not just about power. It's about eluding

32:42

blockers and avoiding them and side stepping

32:44

them. And I think he's a smart

32:46

player too, so you know, he understands

32:48

where the quarterback is gonna step up, he understands

32:51

quick screens, all these things. And so Brooks

32:54

is a disruptive player that if he doesn't go on

32:56

day two, I think he'll be snatched up pretty quickly

32:59

on day three.

33:00

Yeah, he's a guy that I was shocked didn't test

33:02

as well at the Pro day as what you were expecting

33:05

based off the film. But you know, I think

33:07

you mentioned just that skill set that he brings

33:09

to the table. A great player comp for

33:11

him that I don't want to take credit for this one, and I didn't

33:13

throw it in the player comp section for this one, but

33:16

be Ben Fenel came up with the.

33:17

Kerry Hyder comp is perfect for

33:20

Carl Brooks.

33:21

A big body then who can slide into who's

33:23

you know, made a career sliding inside at tackle.

33:25

He's got that versatility. I love that comparison.

33:28

What I was thinking for this position is kind of split it

33:30

up into the different techniques guys that can win from

33:32

different positions, different alignments. So we'll first

33:34

talk through nose tackle. Who's the best kind

33:36

of like run stuffing nose here

33:39

early in.

33:39

The draft, it's got to be Mazzie

33:41

Smith, Michigan nose tackle.

33:43

It's what he did for the Wolverines. More

33:46

than likely it's what he's going to do in the NFL. Six three,

33:48

three hundred and twenty five pounds. He's so

33:50

wide and so powerful the point of attack.

33:53

Can handle doubles no problem. He

33:56

just he roots himself down and

33:58

he's able to just work his way through

34:00

contact. Not In doesn't

34:03

have the production of a guy

34:05

that can get after the quarterback, but he

34:08

does. He's not a bad athlete, you know. He's not a

34:10

guy that is just a treat trunk there in the

34:12

middle of the defensive line. He can

34:14

get on the move a little bit. He does have body

34:16

control, so there's his

34:19

ability to play with leverage, play with power,

34:22

play with the movement skills

34:24

for a big players.

34:26

It's hard to see him not going in the first

34:28

round. When it's all said and un, I was.

34:30

Going to ask where did you like, I'll let you know

34:32

you don't have to say the team, but did you what area of

34:34

the draft did you have him going in? Was like the twenties, or

34:36

did you have him sneaking into the early part of the day two.

34:39

I think that it wouldn't be surprising

34:41

me at all if he goes like in the early twenties.

34:43

But you look at the last five picks for the

34:45

first round. You got the Bills,

34:48

who have done a lot of work on Mazie had him in for a thirty

34:50

visit. You look at the Bengals, they need defensive

34:52

tackle help. The Saints they

34:55

need defensive tackle help in a big way. They really

34:57

want to improve that run defense Philly

34:59

at thirty one one or a thirty, you can't

35:01

rule them out by any means. And

35:04

then with the Chiefs wanting to get better on the defensive

35:06

line, I think if he gets

35:08

past some of those picks in the twenties, I

35:10

don't see any way how he's getting past those five

35:12

teams at the bottom of the front one.

35:14

Yeah, it's good. It's gonna be interesting see where he ends

35:16

up.

35:16

The profile is fascinating just because

35:19

the pass rush production has not been there, but just

35:21

so violent.

35:22

He is a face meltzer at the point of attack.

35:25

When you talk about his ability to win on contact

35:27

as a run defender, and then that's what he brings

35:30

as a pass rusher as well.

35:31

It just does not always result in production.

35:34

But as many smart people say,

35:36

disruption is production up front along

35:38

the defensive line. Let's now go to day

35:40

three. For me, I'm gonna go with Siaki

35:42

Ika from Baylor. I think then,

35:44

you know, when you're talking about you know, six foot two, three

35:47

hundred and thirty five pounds, he's got shorter arms

35:49

for the position, But this is a guy that looks

35:51

like a Danny Shelton type player in the

35:53

NFL All Day, and Shelton was a top fifteen pick.

35:55

I don't think Eka's gonna go that high, especially just

35:57

because he didn't like blow the doors off the testing.

36:00

It really just didn't test well at all at the end

36:02

of the day. So I think when you're looking at Ika, if he had tested

36:04

a little bit better, I think we're probably talking about him

36:06

as a rock solid like day two option,

36:08

and he still might go there because there might be teams out there

36:11

that are looking for this type of player in those

36:13

two high schemes where you need guys

36:15

to kind of dominate inside. But I think when

36:17

you're looking at Ika, a twenty two year old

36:19

red shirt junior who didn't test all that

36:21

well, doesn't have like outstanding pass

36:23

rush production. I think he probably falls more than

36:25

Day three would be my guest based off the profile.

36:27

But it's just to kind of get your thoughts. So, but Ika

36:30

is certainly fascinating if you're looking for just

36:32

a run stuff or inside.

36:34

Right and there are times where he flashes

36:36

a little bit of you know, quickness

36:38

and can get after the quarterback. But yeah,

36:40

predominantly you're drafting this player for

36:43

his ability as a run defender and so because

36:46

he is a pretty nimble three and

36:48

forty pounder, more so than

36:51

most that size. But yeah, he's

36:53

a guy that's going to come in, plug up those

36:55

gaps and really make it difficult

36:57

on a defense running between the tackles.

37:00

Let's go three technique, best puer three technique

37:02

in the class, and I'm from going early this is easy. Klaijah

37:04

Cansi from pitt uh six to one to eighty

37:07

one. So a very very undersized

37:10

compact player as well. Thirty and a half inch

37:12

arms so which is really really short, by

37:14

the way, the shortest wingspan of any defensive

37:16

tackle drafted in the last decade. So he

37:18

is an undersized interior player.

37:21

There's no question now that said he

37:23

ran for sixty seven, he ran one to five

37:25

to eight in the ten yard split, he

37:27

went seven flat in the three cone. These are

37:29

all like ninety fifth percent tile

37:32

numbers at the position. So yes,

37:34

he is very small, but he is also extremely

37:36

explosive, extremely quick. When you look

37:38

at some of the pass rush win rate stuff with

37:40

Klaijah Knsi twenty two point two

37:42

percent win rate this past season on

37:44

all downs, that was better than any win rate

37:47

of any defensive tackle in their final year

37:49

under the PFF era from a drafted defensive

37:52

tackle in college. So I think when you look at Klaijah

37:54

Knsi, Yeah, this guy he is small, there's no

37:56

question, but he has been extremely productive.

37:58

He win.

37:59

He wins off the ball that showed off, off

38:01

the the athleticism at the combine

38:03

and at his pro day as well as on

38:06

tape. This guy could just win in a lot of

38:08

different ways. Now you're gonna need to be You

38:10

might might get a little creative early on because

38:12

you expect that he's gonna get a little bit bigger, a little bit stronger

38:15

over the course of his career. You might need to

38:17

get creative to find a spot for him early. But I

38:19

feel really good about the floor as like an impact role

38:21

player Dan. I don't think that he's going to completely flame

38:23

out. I feel like now you might just be talking about, Okay, is

38:25

he going to be a true three down player or

38:27

is he only going to be like a menace on

38:30

third down, which is also happens to be very.

38:31

Valuable, no doubt. And I

38:35

when you have a guy with such violent hands

38:38

and so you're violent with your

38:41

upper half, you're very quick with your lower half,

38:43

it just makes it really difficult on blockers.

38:45

And so, you know, we talk so much about what

38:49

like a true vertical threat can do enforce

38:51

a defense where you know that speed is there, you have to respect

38:53

that speed and stretches out of defense.

38:56

Well, same should be talked about

38:58

with a guy like this that has interior

39:00

disruption with that quickness, that you

39:02

have to be prepared for that quickness. No

39:05

matter what you're doing up front, you have to be

39:07

prepared, and that forces

39:09

blocking schemes to kind of change up a little

39:11

bit of what they're doing. So no

39:13

doubt, I think he's while we're probably gonna

39:15

end up seeing him going in the first round for

39:18

mine. On Day three, I went with

39:20

Kobe Turner from

39:23

wake Forest six two and a half two

39:25

hundred ninety three pounds, another

39:27

non combined guy who

39:30

he's a fun watch. You know, he's a former

39:33

FCS All American at Richmond, transferred

39:35

to wake Forest for his final year. Wasn't even

39:37

like a full time starter, but he had ten tackles

39:39

for a loss. You see that the

39:41

way he moves, balance, quickness,

39:44

different ways. He'll win with his

39:47

hands. So he is a smaller

39:49

interior player like Cansey

39:51

is, but man is he fun to watch

39:54

because of that quickness and because of his

39:56

ability to slip gaps and make plays

39:58

in the hole.

40:00

You know, everyone is using these multiple

40:02

fronts up in the NFL now, where you're gonna you know, have

40:04

like an odd front on early downs, you're gonna shift

40:06

into more of an even front when you get to third down. And

40:08

so the while the five technique

40:10

position, the four I technique position that used to be

40:12

much more of a niche spot. Not every team

40:14

in the NFL was looking for guys that could line

40:17

up head up on the tackle and two gap

40:19

and you know, take up multiple blockers at

40:21

times. Now it feels like every team once at

40:23

least one guy that has that kind of skill sets.

40:25

When you get into those fronts, you have an answer there.

40:28

So that said, who's the best pure

40:30

over tackle, two gap kind of

40:32

defensive end type of player here when you're looking

40:35

at these interior rushers, when you look at Day one or Day.

40:37

Two, Yeah, looking at you

40:39

know, some of the better players at the top

40:41

of this draft at defensive tackle. You

40:44

know, Brian Brazi he kind

40:46

of fits that, you know where. I think he could play multiple

40:48

spots up front. Six five

40:50

and a half, three hundred pounds. You

40:53

know, he's not super long, which ideally

40:55

you want length for this type of position, but

40:58

I think he because he plays with it's

41:00

such quickness and body control. I do

41:03

think that he fits with you

41:05

know, if you want to play him head up over the tackle, you

41:07

want to play him on the inside

41:09

shade of the offensive tackle on

41:12

his inside shoulder. I think that, you know, you'd

41:14

be comfortable doing that because of the way the

41:17

quickness that he plays, with his ability to read

41:19

or react, he can anchor at

41:21

the point of attack. You know, he's

41:23

a he's a smart player, and you know we've

41:25

said it before, but his

41:27

injuries and the personal issue, the

41:29

tragedy that he dealt with this past year. I think

41:31

that you know, you factor all that in. We

41:34

have just not seen peak Brian

41:36

Brazie really since his freshman

41:38

year, and so you know, I think that

41:40

he's getting knocked in these rankings and mocks,

41:42

and I won't be surprised at all

41:44

when he far out plays where he ends up being

41:47

drafted.

41:47

That's exactly what I was just going to say.

41:49

There's a good chance that you know, if he goes late

41:51

round one or early round two, the teams are

41:53

laughing all the way to him

41:55

being a Pro Bowl type of player in year two

41:57

or year three like that, that is not you know, out

42:00

side the range of outcomes for Brian Brazi.

42:02

For me going to day three, I'm gonna go down to the SEC.

42:04

Kobe Wooden from Auburn is a guy that I

42:07

think I'm a little bit higher on than you are, Dane.

42:08

I was just kind of going through the beast. I think they wouldn't.

42:11

This is a guy that you know, two seventy three thirty

42:13

three and a half inch Arms started his career

42:16

as an outside like as an edge rusher, and is you know,

42:18

put on more weight and so now it's kind of shifted more

42:20

to the interior of the course of his career. And

42:22

this is a guy that can win with quickness, he can win

42:25

with that length. I think

42:27

that to me, like when you see a guy that can be that interior

42:29

disruptor, I think it's a little bit lean

42:31

in this class. There aren't that many guys that you would kind of check

42:33

that box. I think Wooden is one of those guys and kind

42:36

of like a lowercase Brazil in terms of like the body

42:38

type and that ability to be an upfield penetrator.

42:41

Yeah. No, I liked

42:43

Wooden and he he was

42:45

like the first cut or like the last

42:48

cut from my top one hundred. Okay,

42:50

he's like one oh one. Like I hated leaving him

42:52

out, you know, he was one of the final

42:54

ones that I had to cut out of there. But because he

42:56

is a good player, and I don't know that

42:59

he's necessary really explosive

43:02

or you know, he's not the he's not doesn't

43:04

have that traditional you know, brawny

43:06

power necessarily, but he's

43:09

he's fluid, uh, you know, he

43:11

can be disruptive, he's laid on his

43:13

feet, he can play multiple positions. I think the

43:15

versatility that he offers is a

43:17

real big sell uh for a

43:19

lot of teams, So scheme diverse

43:23

won't be surprised at all if he ends up being a

43:25

starter and out playing

43:27

some of the defensive lineman drafted ahead

43:29

of him.

43:30

Dan, you give us a player, cop, what do you like here for the interior?

43:33

A little bit of a throwback. I'm gonna

43:36

go with Mazzi Smith and compare him the

43:38

Brandon Mebane, who, you

43:40

know, we knew he

43:42

was such an important part of you know, we talked about those

43:44

Seattle defenses from

43:47

you know, seven eight years ago, and we

43:49

talked about you know, the secondary

43:51

and and Bobby Wagner and kJ

43:54

Wright and but we don't talk enough about

43:56

upfront and what Brandon Mebane meant

43:58

for the rest of that defense and when he was able to

44:00

do at the middle of

44:02

that defensive line. And I think Mazzie Smith can fill

44:04

a similar type of role where you

44:07

know, he's not gonna be one of

44:09

the more heralded players on the defense

44:11

in terms of production and getting

44:13

his name called throughout the throughout a telecast,

44:16

but the impact that he's going to make up

44:18

front will the domino effect.

44:20

The ripple effect is going to greatly

44:22

help everybody else, the other ten defenders

44:25

on the field. So from that respect,

44:27

I see a lot of similarities and a guy

44:30

that Brandon mebiam was a third round pick

44:32

almost fifteen years ago. Over fifteen years

44:34

ago. Now Masia Smid probably a first

44:37

round pick, and I

44:39

think we'll have the equal type of impact

44:41

for the team that drafts him.

44:43

Yeah. For me, I'm gonna stay in the Big ten. I'm gonna

44:45

go.

44:45

Keanu Benton from Wisconsin. He

44:47

really reminds me of Austin Johnson when he was coming

44:49

out of another big tensible a lot of Penn State a

44:51

few years back. I think I've shared that comp on the podcast

44:54

before, and this was purely like aesthetically

44:57

while watching Keanu Benton, and I remember like thinking,

44:59

like with Austin Johnson really just kind

45:01

of like a thickly built nosed tackle who's got

45:03

more juice than you think, went down to the Senior

45:05

Ball had a really good week down there, and ironically that's

45:08

what Johnson did as well. But Benton when he went

45:10

down to Mobile showed better juice than people

45:12

gave him credit for. In that Wisconsin defense and I

45:14

think when you look at Benton, he is a very

45:16

well rounded player.

45:17

He can win with technique.

45:18

He anchors down extremely well against the run,

45:21

but he's got more pass rush chops than given credit

45:23

for. So Keanu Benton, Austin Johnson.

45:25

Johnson again, he was snuck into the back end of the first

45:27

round with the Titans. I don't know if we're going to see that with Benton

45:30

necessarily, but I think he'll be a rock solid

45:32

player on Day two. Dain

45:34

two names that are likely first round

45:36

picks, potential first round picks here in

45:38

this NFL draft that we did not hit. One

45:40

is also from the Big Ten, and that's out of Tammuwa, out

45:42

of bare from Northwestern. The other Jervon

45:45

Dexter from Florida.

45:47

So between those two guys, pick one,

45:49

you break down one, I'll break down the other.

45:52

Well, I probably got to talk about Dexter because I think I'm higher

45:54

on him the most season.

45:56

I would agree with I would agree with you, by the way, I think Dexter's

45:59

a stud.

46:00

Good yo.

46:00

And I'll give you all the credit. You're the first one

46:03

the last summer to really point them

46:05

mount and say hey, this guy's for real and when

46:07

I watched his tape, and yeah, the

46:09

talent is outstanding. You can see why

46:11

this guy was a former five

46:14

star. There's a ton of talent

46:16

in that in that body we just haven't seen yet,

46:18

you know, six five and a half, three ten, so

46:21

much ability to work with. It

46:24

really bothered me how he can be laid off the

46:26

snap. But at the same time,

46:29

I feel like we have not yet seen his best

46:31

football, and so I'm gonna draft him.

46:33

So I'm gonna get a discount on him, probably in the third

46:35

round. Feel great about it, and I think he'll

46:37

he'll all play that draft spot.

46:39

Man, if he goes in the third round, that team is getting

46:41

a hell of a steal. Yeah, because

46:43

honestly, you know how it is like you're watching guys in the summer,

46:46

you're also like projecting forward into this

46:48

fall, and you're like, man, like, if this guy takes like just

46:50

a marginal next step, what he could

46:52

be down there, Like he could be We're talking like a potential top

46:54

ten, top fifteen type of player, and he just didn't

46:56

take that next step this year. But from

46:59

all intense purposes, every I've heard like a great kid

47:01

looks the part athletic just

47:04

did not like post great production. But Jervon

47:06

Dexter fascinating player. I'm gonna go out of Barre

47:08

real quick. I think a lot of the issues you're looking

47:10

at with like a Keon White and with a Klajah Kansi,

47:13

Like, all right, what position is he gonna play?

47:14

Can he hold up full time against the run?

47:16

We all made a big deal about Kalajah Kansi's workout

47:19

in Indianapolis for good reason, and Ata

47:21

Barre did that in a bigger frame, like it was

47:23

extremely impressive out in Indianapolis,

47:25

There's no question about it. It's just about like backing

47:27

that up with the film, right, And I think when you're looking at Ada

47:29

Barre, you know, this is a guy that can line

47:32

up inside, he can line up off the edge.

47:34

Was the guy that.

47:35

Teams got the game plan for every single week

47:37

at Northwestern, So going to the NFL,

47:40

that won't be the case for him early on. But I think

47:42

when you look at Atabarre, there's a lot of reason to

47:44

think that his best football is ahead of him as well,

47:46

much like we were talking about with Jivon Dexter.

47:48

Yeah, it's it's

47:50

a really confusing player because that the tape

47:53

says one thing, the testing says another, ye,

47:56

Senior Bowl says or something else like. It's

47:58

there's all these different elements and

48:01

at the end of the day it might end up

48:03

being a first round pick. So it's He's

48:05

a really interesting player that I think will

48:07

be an interesting test case and you'll

48:10

get different opinions team to team, scheme

48:12

to scheme. Is he a true free technique?

48:14

Is he?

48:15

You know?

48:15

He just team to look at him a little bit differently. So fascinating

48:18

player that I do think sneaks

48:21

into Round one when it's all said and done.

48:22

Yeah, that's it. It seems like that's the way it's going

48:25

for sure.

48:25

Well, Dane, thanks so much for joining us once again here on

48:27

the journey of the Draft Podcast, and we will talk to

48:29

you next week for the Draft week. Now

48:34

it's time to hear from you the fans in

48:36

the draft mail bag. All

48:40

right, great stuff there again from Dane. Let's now

48:42

go to our draft mail bag, and again the best way

48:44

to reach us here on Draft mail back go

48:46

over to Apple Podcasts, leave us a rating, leave us

48:48

a comment, and in that comment you leave us a question or

48:51

a mock draft or whatever it is, and we will answer

48:53

it here in an upcoming episode. We only have a handful of

48:55

these left before the draft. We're gonna have one

48:57

more here this week, and we've got a couple in the

48:59

hopper for next week as well before

49:01

draft day. So if you've got a question, the best way

49:03

to go and reach us is

49:05

through our Apple podcast page. That's

49:07

exactly what Bert two three four nine

49:09

did, who left a five star review. Thank you Bert

49:12

with the comment and the question. First

49:14

of all, as always, I wanted to say how great

49:16

this podcast is. I cannot get enough if your knowledge

49:18

and it is unmatched best draft

49:20

podcast out there, I don't think it's close.

49:23

Thanks so much for that, Burt. I really should appreciate that

49:25

comment. Now that said, let's get into the question

49:27

here. With having Darius Lay and James

49:29

Bradbury back for the next two years, I don't

49:31

think it stops us from drafting a cornerback

49:33

early, but could it make it more reasonable

49:35

to drop back from ten where corner seems

49:38

more like the best player available. It may

49:40

be a corner you try and pick up an extra second round

49:42

pick from a team that is looking for that premium

49:44

tackle, or a corner with an expected

49:47

run on tackles in the early teens. I'm looking at

49:49

the Steelers at seventeen and forty nine. That is close

49:51

to trade value for ten for the LA

49:53

Chargers for a corner at twenty one and fifty

49:55

four plus a future pick, or say

49:58

Will Levis falls to Tampa Bay

50:00

in Tampa Bay moving from nineteen up to number

50:02

ten. So here's a list of players

50:04

that I like similar enough that I think would be worth

50:06

getting an extra top sixty pick for. So

50:08

Bert goes on to list a bunch of players Lucas

50:11

van Ness and Nolan Smith, Devin Witherspoon, Clais

50:13

Shakansi, Paris Johnson Smith and Jigba,

50:16

Deontae Banks, Brian Branch, Joey Porter,

50:18

b John Robinson, Miles Murphy or

50:20

a Brian Brezi as well. So here's what I'll

50:22

say, Bert, I think the big thing. And first

50:25

of all, this is topical because Peter King

50:27

in his weekly column just said that a team like

50:29

the Pittsburgh the Pittsburgh Steelers are interested in

50:31

moving up potentially a number nine to get

50:33

a guy like Jalen Carter. And that's actually how you finished

50:36

up your comment saying that assuming Jalen Carter

50:38

is off the board. Now, I think when you're

50:40

looking at you know, the potential

50:42

trade back opportunities, Yeah, you're looking

50:44

for those teams that are looking to get up

50:46

into the pole position out

50:49

of one of these spots.

50:50

Right.

50:50

So we talked about this in our what if scenarios

50:52

with Ben last week. So like, let's say all

50:54

the quarterbacks go up high. Let's say they go one,

50:56

two, three, four, four of them go in the first seven.

50:59

Whatever it is.

50:59

Well, now that bumps down a lot of other positions, bumps

51:02

down all the tackles. It bumps bumps down potentially

51:04

all the corners are a couple of these pass rushers.

51:06

And now you're sitting in a spot at ten

51:08

where yeah, if you do if you don't want to take one of those

51:10

players, well you might say, like the teams that want

51:13

to get a hip up ahead of Tennessee or Houston

51:15

and some of these other teams throughout the rest of

51:17

the top ten, yeah that picks

51:19

for sale. Let's move back. And honestly,

51:22

the way you listed out, that's how teams are

51:24

viewing this to saying, Okay, here's

51:26

who we have valued in this area

51:28

of the draft.

51:29

We have these seven guys.

51:30

So we have to be okay with if we trade

51:32

out of these seven, if we trade out of nine

51:34

spots or twelve spots, there's a chance

51:36

that that tier of seven players for US is

51:38

gone, and we have to be okay with that.

51:40

We have to be okay. We have to say that this.

51:41

Value that we are getting in these other draft picks,

51:43

whether it's this year or future picks down the road,

51:46

that that is able to overcome the

51:48

US losing one of these seven players. And so

51:51

I'm glad that you listened the question that way. I do

51:53

think we know, like, look, Kwie Roseman and the Eagles, they're

51:55

going to be involved in every discussion. Every team right now

51:58

is having moving up and moving back discussions

52:00

with all the other thirty one teams. That's not like breaking

52:03

news. Every team is talking with every team right now, just

52:05

kind of gauging interest because it's tough to really

52:07

kind of get a deal done from start to finish

52:09

in ten minutes when you're on the clock next Thursday

52:12

night. And so the framework

52:14

for a lot of these deals is happening now

52:16

and is going to happen even more as we get into

52:18

next week. But I think when you look at it, that's

52:20

the decision you're having if you're the Philadelphia

52:22

Eagles, if you're the Chicago Bears, if you're the Houston

52:25

Texans at twelve, and you're saying, you know what, yes,

52:28

it would be great to stay here and pick a great

52:30

player that falls to us. But if

52:33

we have a lot of these players all grouped together in a similar

52:35

way and we're okay drafting any of these five guys

52:37

or any of these seven, or these nine, or these twelve,

52:40

well let's move back and let's let somebody else pick

52:42

some of these players, and we can recoup some of that value

52:44

as well and pick some more players, have more

52:47

shots at the Apple to find Pro Bowl players

52:49

that can help us win a championship. So that's

52:51

the conversation that every team is having right

52:53

now. Bert, thanks so much for the five star

52:55

review. Thanks so much for the question, and again, if you've

52:57

got one at home, head on over to Apple podcastle

53:00

there we will answer it in one of our next couple

53:02

of shows. We've got Ben and Dane.

53:04

Who are Ben and Greg? I should say back later

53:06

this week here on the Journey of the Draft podcast. Next

53:08

week, we've got our Mock Draft Extravaganza.

53:11

It's an episode that everybody always looks forward

53:13

to where I'm going to reach out to thirty two

53:15

people thirty one people this year, all

53:17

across the league to help make a pick

53:20

for all the other teams picking in round one.

53:22

So always a good exercise. We get

53:24

great insight every single year. We always get

53:26

picks that helped kind of show

53:28

the hand of what teams are doing in the middle of

53:30

Round one, not just with the top ten, but in the middle

53:32

of the late parts. We've hit on a number of those picks

53:34

in this podcast, so you want to make sure you subscribe,

53:37

make sure you stay subscribed, and expect that show

53:39

next week right here on the Journey of the Draft Podcast