0:02

Eagles Entertainment with

0:06

the Can't Pick in the NFL Draft

0:09

the Philadelphi Eagle. Quick you're

0:12

listening to the Journey to the Draft podcast.

0:17

Welcome to the Journey of the the Draft podcast. I'm your host

0:19

friend Duffy, and we're gonna continue our position

0:21

preview series here on the Journey of the Draft Podcast,

0:23

where today we go into the trenches. We're

0:25

talking offensive line here in Draft

0:28

Buzz, where my friend Ben Fennel, he's gonna

0:30

sub in for Dane Brugler, which, by the way, Dane's

0:32

Beast, the best draft guide in

0:35

the industry, just dropped over on the Athletic Go check

0:37

that out. Dane put so much work into it,

0:39

and we know all the work that Dane does here

0:41

on this podcast, so go give him him some

0:43

love with the Beast that just dropped. But Dane

0:46

draft that this week, so we'll give him the week off.

0:48

He's not feeling too great. So now Ben is

0:50

tapping in. We're gonna talk through offensive line, both

0:52

tackles, guards, centers, We're talking through

0:54

all of it here on Draft Buzz. After

0:56

that, we've got a couple of questions from you at home in our draft

0:58

mail bag, and again The best way to reach us is

1:01

to head on over two Apple podcasts. If you want

1:03

to get into our draft Mailbag segment, go

1:05

leave us a review, leave us a question in the

1:07

comment box, and we will answer it in an upcoming

1:09

episode that said, let's talk o line

1:12

with Ben Fennel. It's time for Draft buzz

1:17

now. It's time for Draft buzz.

1:20

All right, here for Draft bus now is my friend Ben

1:22

Fennel to go through this offensive line

1:25

class. And again we're just continuing our position

1:27

previews and Ben, over the last

1:29

decade, the average number of tackles

1:32

and guards. I typically split the offensive line

1:34

up into two positions. Right, there's like the guys that are locked

1:36

in as interior guys. They might be guards, your

1:38

centers. And then you have your guys that are tackle

1:40

guard prospects. Maybe they're tackles, maybe their guards.

1:42

I split them up into two groups because if you split

1:44

them up into three, there's too much gray area.

1:47

Trying to do anything historicals pointless because

1:49

guys are listed as tackles and then they ended up

1:51

playing guard for the first two years and then they moved to tackle

1:53

in year three. So I just say tackles, guards,

1:55

guards, and centers all right side. Note over, let's

1:58

go down to the tackle guards over the last step,

2:00

Gabe. That average number of that first group,

2:02

those tackle guards twenty seven point

2:04

four. Last year, that number was way

2:07

above that. It was a It was at thirty

2:09

three last year. It was thirty one the previous

2:11

year. So obviously these last two have

2:14

been really high. The previous two it was much

2:16

below, far below that mark. So Ben,

2:18

as we sit here today, it was April eleventh,

2:20

Tuesday afternoon over under

2:22

twenty seven and a half. Essentially tackle

2:24

guards drafted here in this class. I'll

2:27

go with the under. Actually this year, Um,

2:29

I don't think it's a deep pool

2:32

later in the draft, as far as Day three and

2:34

the developmental types and particularly

2:36

the starting calibers, I think you're going to go off the board

2:38

really quick. Actually think it's gonna be a slightly

2:41

down year for the collective offensive line

2:43

group, ye, which means it'll probably

2:45

be up in the corners and the receivers and elsewhere.

2:47

Obviously ebbs and flows, as there's going

2:49

to be a certain number of draft picks no matter what offensive

2:52

line though, put me on the under. Yeah, I feel

2:54

like Dane actually said that last week it was like,

2:56

Yeah, I feel like I've said over on like all of

2:58

these, so you knew the we're coming

3:00

at some point. That's even studying

3:02

the draft. I know he comes out with that beast.

3:04

I think he outsources the whole thing to India.

3:07

They just send it back. Okay, we had

3:09

to dive into that Brugler kid. Well, as we

3:11

know, the Beast did drop over on the

3:13

athletic here on Monday, and as

3:15

it happens, you know, Dane is just working so

3:18

laboriously over this, over

3:20

this piece for the better part of the last

3:22

year, and his body just completely breaks

3:24

down as soon as over. He's got a bad case of strep throat,

3:26

so he had to cancel all media. So Ben,

3:29

you're here at his stead and you were going to talk through the

3:32

best pass protecting tackle. Who's

3:34

the best pass protecting tackle in this class?

3:37

And you're gonna have the honor of leading us off with a Day one or

3:39

Day two. Guy, something tells me it'll be a Day one

3:41

option. Yeah, absolutely, we're gonna

3:43

a Day one option here. And just the

3:46

one disclaimer as we're doing these superlatives

3:48

and we're breaking him up from Day ones and twos

3:50

and threes. You notice how

3:52

there's no offensive lineman really in the top

3:54

five conversation. Yep. Obviously

3:57

quarterback dominant, and there's some other very elite

3:59

prospect. All of the offensive

4:01

linemen have some flaws and have some areas

4:04

to improve. There is no perfect prospect.

4:06

So this was a really interesting exercise because

4:09

every guy you want to put in that first superlative

4:11

as a day one still has some areas

4:14

to grow. So right off the bat,

4:16

best pass protecting tackle, my opinion,

4:18

that's left tackled Paris Johnson out of Ohio

4:20

State, who I think has the best combination

4:23

of athleticism, functional strength,

4:25

length bend. I mean he could cut

4:27

off high side speed rushes, also having

4:30

the light feet in the redirect to adjust inside

4:32

moves and sustain late in the down. He

4:34

is the best pass protector, but it's

4:36

not for the lack of areas of improvement

4:39

as well. I think he needs to be a little bit better with his

4:41

hands. Occasionally get a little bit wide, let

4:43

those defenders into his chest, and he has

4:45

to take a couple extra steps to hold down

4:47

an anchor against power very very

4:50

gifted feet, and many times

4:52

the tackle position is a bottom up

4:54

type of position where your feet can

4:56

save every other aspect of your body.

4:58

He has very gifted eat friend, best pass

5:01

protector in the class. Yeah, and honestly, I think

5:03

there's some comparisons. You know, was it

5:05

last week where we did like the Day three versions

5:07

of players, right? I think if you get

5:09

into and this guy might go latter stages at Day

5:11

two and shock me if this guy snuck into the

5:14

third round. But Carter Warren, the left

5:16

tackle from pitt He's got thirty nine

5:18

starts in his career. He's played a lot of ball for the

5:20

Panthers. Where I think he excels

5:23

is in pass protection, and it's in every

5:25

area all the things you've just talked about with Paris Johnson.

5:27

Where you know Paris Johnson again, this was his first

5:29

year playing tackle. Well, Carter Warren,

5:31

like he's been a four year starter at left

5:33

tackle for the Panthers, so he's pretty well schooled

5:36

in playing from this spot. He's got pretty

5:38

quick fee, He's got light feet to run the arc with

5:40

speed. He's got a good feel for stunts

5:42

and twists. He redirects really well. I think his reaction

5:45

quickness is on par with everybody else

5:47

in this class. Really good use of independent

5:49

hands, got very He's very active through the REP,

5:52

excellent at resetting his hands, even if that a first

5:54

initial strike isn't quite where it needs to be.

5:56

He's got that ability to reset and kind of take control

5:59

of the REP, and he's got good timing and dropping

6:01

his anchor. I think he's more strong than powerful

6:03

to the weak points with Carter Warren are going to come

6:06

in the run game where he definitely needs to get better,

6:08

and he knows he needed to get better. That's actually why

6:10

he went back to school for another year. He could

6:12

have come out last year. I'm pretty sure he was a Senior

6:14

Bowl acceptance last year or a Shrine

6:16

Bowl acceptance twenty twenty

6:18

one season. Ended up going back, and

6:21

he's said a big reason why I need I knew I need to get

6:23

better in the run game. But I do think that

6:25

he offers plenty of value in pass

6:27

protection. So Carter Warren for me, he's

6:29

a guy that kind of stood out in over thirty

6:31

five inch arms, eighty four inch wingspan. This

6:33

guy's got the tools, the trades, the experience,

6:36

saw the older prospect. I think he's twenty four or

6:38

twenty five, which is okay. So it's kind of

6:40

a mature body or ready to play, and absolutely

6:43

see him filling out an NFL offensive

6:45

line room, maybe the eighth ninth guy

6:48

heading into his first season. All right, let's go to our

6:50

next category here, and this is the best

6:52

tackle who might end up at guard.

6:54

You know, look, at the end of the day, they might get

6:56

their shot at tackle, but you

6:58

know, we'll say that they might be best cast

7:01

inside. I think that guy right now

7:03

is the poster boy for this would be Peter Scronsky

7:05

from Northwestern and he is an option. Ben

7:07

You and I have been talking about him weekly

7:09

here on the podcast, especially over the last month or so, as

7:12

he has been often mocked to the Eagles in mock

7:14

draft. Six foot four, three hundred and thirteen

7:16

pound, The arm link just not where you

7:18

would want for an ideal tackle, thirty

7:20

two and just about a quarter inch arms, you

7:22

know, and that's going to be below a lot of thresholds

7:24

for a lot of people at the tackle spot. But that said,

7:27

this is a pretty athletic kid. He's technically

7:29

sound. He's been a three year starter. He started

7:32

from day one. Rayshawn Slater opts

7:34

out of that twenty twenty COVID season slater

7:36

A Scronsky

7:38

is a true freshman that year and says, yeah, I'm

7:40

ready for the job, steps in for the first

7:43

round pick and takes off. He's got a finisher's

7:45

mentality. I really like watching Scronsky

7:47

on film. He works to run his feet on

7:49

contact. He's got an edge to him. He's an athletic

7:52

kid that shows up not just on film, but at

7:54

the combine. Tested well, had a good position

7:56

workout. He's got a good, really good feel

7:58

for stunts and twitz and blitz is

8:00

up front, and he's got really strong hands. So I think there's

8:02

a lot to work with there. But I

8:05

do get a lot of people having some reservations

8:07

about him playing tackle. I do think you can let

8:09

him play there and see it lee, you know, make him fail

8:12

before kicking him inside. But

8:14

I don't think that he's gonna limit you

8:16

in terms of the way that he can be deployed

8:19

in the NFL. Hey, you need offensive

8:21

guards, in fact, you need two of them, and there are plenty

8:24

of tackles that slide in. We always talk about Zach

8:26

Martin, but don't forget about guys like Joe Plutonio

8:28

out there. You know, don't forget about guys like Joe

8:31

Tuney. You know that maybe didn't have the length.

8:33

Actually, both those guys are very similar heightweight,

8:35

speed, length profile as Peter

8:38

Skuransky and then go and be pro Bowl

8:40

guards. And I think that's an okay projection. So

8:42

a Day three option in this category. I

8:45

wanted to pick Matthew Bergeron, who fits

8:47

this kind of specs, but I'm actually gonna go elsewhere

8:49

as I think Bergieron's gonna find himself as a Day

8:51

two option. Give me Jordan McFadden

8:54

for oh nice. And I'm not sure if you've caught up

8:56

on his career arc at Clemson,

8:59

he started the right tackle, finished his past

9:01

year at left tackle. He is a short profile

9:04

with good length. He's about six two,

9:06

but it's thirty four inch arms. He's

9:09

athletic in linear but not

9:11

really good change of direction. He's a really

9:13

interesting profile, but he is really

9:16

strong and I'm going to slide him inside to

9:18

guard all day long. I think he's an NFL

9:20

ready guard today. Now

9:22

on the tackle doesn't have that length profile

9:24

you want. Maybe he doesn't have that fluidity

9:27

in his movements, but if he gets a hold of you,

9:29

and you're on his tracks. He can move people.

9:31

He has really really good length and knows how

9:33

to use it. He's played some high level football too,

9:36

So Jordan McFadden, don't forget about

9:38

him all. Our friend Emory Hunt over with the College

9:40

Draft podcast just listened. McAdden is his favorite

9:42

guard in the class. So I think you're you're

9:44

right on in terms of projecting. He's a guy that I

9:47

don't think I's played guard. He's started then

9:50

left tackle. I'm not sure if he's dabbled inside at

9:53

all. I also have to dive into that after this pod. All

9:55

right, well, let's go to the next phase here, the

9:57

next, the next, the most devastating run

9:59

block from these tackles and guards. Who's

10:02

the best in the run game? You and I both love the guys

10:04

that can smashtacks, move people one on one.

10:07

What are your thoughts here on a day? One day? Two options in the run

10:09

game another one, fran I would just paying with deciding

10:11

between two guys. I wanted to pick a Duan Jones.

10:14

I just love his punch at the point in the way he could

10:16

displace anyone in front of him. But

10:18

I think this has to be broad. Eric Jones at

10:20

a Georgia. I think his ability to wrestle

10:22

and torque defensive ends. Yet he can

10:25

play in space. He can pull, whether it's

10:27

to the perimeter or you know, pulling up between

10:29

the tackles is excellent combination of

10:31

length, hips, power, mobility,

10:34

the angular frame. He has everything

10:36

you want as far as getting the job done in the

10:39

run game and in a multitude of ways.

10:41

He can move you off the ball vertically, you could

10:43

pull him, you could ask him to reach you go, tell him to

10:45

go kick out the corner on the perimeter for a screen

10:47

for Kenny McIntosh. You know, he could do a lot

10:49

of different things. So devastating run blocker

10:52

that doesn't just mean Mano Imano head

10:55

up blocking, defensive ends. I think he could

10:57

do a lot of different things for your run game. And that's

10:59

where you're getting with Rogert Jones. For

11:01

me, I'm gonna talk about Rodgert Jones in the next category,

11:03

So I don't want to dive too deep into my analysis there,

11:05

but I will say I'm gonna stay in the sec for mine. A day

11:07

three guy Richard Garage from

11:10

Florida, who I don't think it's talked about nearly

11:12

enough. You know, obviously we talked about ou Cyrus Torrence, but

11:14

Richard Garage. First of all, he's got some position

11:16

versatility. He's played both guard and tackle. He's

11:18

been mostly a tackle of the last two three seasons,

11:21

but has played some inside as well, So you

11:23

like having that versatility there. But six foot

11:25

five thirty four inch arms, just

11:27

over three hundred pounds. Is a good looking kid,

11:30

you know, a red shirt senior who to

11:32

me like one of the first things that stood out. This guy

11:34

can be a bully against defensive tackles

11:36

on down blocks. He is brutal on

11:38

double teams on the back side, gets great

11:41

movement, He's got really strong hands, and

11:43

really it's tough to get off so to me, I

11:45

think when you look at just in terms of the pure

11:48

run game, Richard Garage, a guy from

11:50

Florida, went to the Senior Bowl. There's not a lot of buzz

11:52

about this kid. I really like watching him on tape

11:54

though. He's one of those guys I just don't

11:57

think had buzz buzz

11:59

to his name, you know, whether it was a treat, whether it

12:01

was his play style, whether it was his experience

12:04

kind of just riding ho home in the middle

12:06

of the offensive line class. But as he watches

12:08

tape in the SEC which for

12:10

all intensive purposes for him,

12:12

it's the developmental

12:14

league for the NFL. He handled

12:16

NFL style edge rushers on a weekly basis.

12:18

He's a really good player, So he's likely

12:20

going to be a Day three option that makes your

12:23

team's roster and might have to start a few games.

12:25

And all of a sudden in November you're saying, who the heck

12:27

is Richard Garage. Well, we're getting educated

12:29

now, so he's gonna get drafted late. He's gonna

12:31

make a team, and don't be surprised if he ends up playing.

12:34

Yeah, he's a subpart athlete, and I think that's

12:36

why he kind of flies under the radar a little bit. But again,

12:38

like if you have forty two starts, you've played

12:40

tackle and guard, and you've got power

12:43

like and you've got length like that plays

12:45

in the NFL. Whether he's gonna be as a starter or a

12:47

top backup, I think he's gonna be a valuable useful

12:49

piece to one old line room. For me,

12:51

let's go to the next category here, and the next one is just

12:54

the best in space. Who is the most useful

12:56

blocker on the move, whether it's in the run game or

12:58

in the screen game. And for me, this is where

13:00

Roger Jones really makes his head, you know, from Georgia

13:03

redshirt sophomore, six foot five and a quarter

13:05

three hundred and eleven pounds. He's got good length, really

13:08

looks the part, really athletic player,

13:10

and to me, like that's where I think, Um, you

13:12

see his ability to get from A to B really

13:14

really fast. He's got outstanding range, he can

13:16

recover, he's rarely on the ground. He's just a

13:19

really good athlete that did show up in Indianapolis

13:21

and the positional workout. I thought that he looked really fluid

13:23

as a poller on those GT counterplays.

13:26

He is outstanding in the screen game. You

13:29

know, all the different ways that they use him. It's like

13:31

this is what the Eagles do with Jason Kelsey

13:33

and with Jordan Mailatta and with Lane Johnson. Like he

13:36

offers that kind of versatility as

13:38

a blocker in those permitter runs

13:40

games and in the screen game. Yeah.

13:42

Absolutely, I think you just set up a lot of the points

13:44

I had and why he was my best run blocker absolutely,

13:47

because he's the best on the move as well. He can

13:49

do so many things for your offense. Yeah, all right,

13:51

Well, who's your guy for day three in this category?

13:54

You know this was another one. You know, I was deciding

13:56

between its a Cody Mock. I know a lot of people have

13:58

him in the interior group that guard center,

14:00

so we'll put him for later. How about a Seam Richards

14:03

at North Carolina who I think has

14:05

that perfect tackle guard flexibility.

14:08

Kicked inside the guard quite a bit at the Senior Bowl.

14:10

I think he looked comfortable in the North Carolina

14:12

run offense. They asked him to play on the move

14:14

quite a bit, a lot of the GT counter stuff,

14:17

a lot of one back power where they'll pull

14:19

the backside tackle. He had to be

14:21

on the move a ton look very athletic

14:23

out of his stands now. Certainly needs to get

14:25

stronger and needs to get a little bit, you

14:28

know, cleaner with this technique. He would like him

14:30

to be just a little bit longer, but I think he's

14:32

willing to do it, and he seems very very coachable.

14:35

Just judging that quick learning curve downommobile.

14:37

It would have been on my short list for guys on day three, and that's

14:39

a great pick. Philly Kidd. Also, by

14:41

the way, local went

14:43

to the Haverford School Mike Mayok territory

14:46

there over on the main line. Let's go now

14:48

to the next category here, best technician,

14:50

who's the best with their hands, who's got that

14:53

ability to win with leverage rep after

14:55

rep and just does things the right way.

14:57

You've got the pick here for day one or

14:59

day two. I mean that has to be Scarnsky,

15:01

And I think it's a guy with that length profile that

15:04

has to be the best technician. And he's a

15:06

guy that's explained on social media

15:08

with Brandon Thorn at Masterminds

15:10

when his length hurts him,

15:12

it's about technique. And I love

15:15

that explanation and I love that correlation

15:17

about length that if you don't have the

15:20

length to handle a longer rusher, a

15:22

lot of times it's your technique that's causing

15:24

that. And I just love those conversations

15:26

in the lab at Olne Masterminds and seeing

15:29

you know a Toron Armstead and Mitchell Schwartz

15:31

talk about where length matters and where

15:33

length doesn't matter, but if you have proper

15:36

technique, oftentimes it doesn't.

15:38

And I think Peter Scarnsky is the technician

15:40

of this group. I know Jason Kelsey has

15:42

talked about this publicly both, you know, whether

15:44

it's like press conferences or over on

15:46

the New Heights podcast with his brother, just like you're

15:48

even going back and watching old film

15:50

with himself and saying, like the things he got away with

15:52

earlier in his career, that you know,

15:54

just from like a physical tool standpoint, like he

15:56

was able to overcome it despite his lack

15:58

of technique. He's like, man, like I was just a little bit more technically

16:01

sound. I would have been so much better earlier in

16:03

my career, And some guys like you are

16:05

forced to play that way because you don't have those

16:07

gifts, you don't have that athleticism. Um,

16:10

you know, so, I think that's an interesting take there from

16:12

from Peter Skronski. Let's go now to mind

16:14

here for day three. Um, this was a tough one, man,

16:16

because I thought there were a lot of guys that I could have gone

16:18

with. I ended up with somebody that has been kind

16:20

of the He's been talked about a lot over the

16:22

last few years, was viewed as a potential first

16:25

round pick going into the twenty twenty one NFL draft.

16:27

Um, then we've got hurt for the twenty twenty two draft,

16:30

so went back to school for now the twenty twenty three

16:32

draft, and that's Jackson Kirkland from

16:34

Washington. He's played four

16:36

different positions up front. He started at three

16:38

different positions upfront, so he's got legitimate

16:41

position versatility. He's played both tackle

16:43

and guard spots. Six foot seven, three hundred

16:45

and twenty one pounds, he's got thirty three and a half inch arm

16:47

So this is a good looking kid, probably

16:50

better served to play inside at guard. But

16:52

he's not a great athlete, so again kind of

16:54

getting into something he's he's lesser

16:56

in one area, so he's got to overcome

16:59

it elsewhere. And I think when you look at his

17:01

ability to use his hands both run game and pass

17:03

game, I think that he's one of the better technicians

17:05

when you get into Day three. And that's one really

17:07

stands out to me about Jackson Kirkland. He's

17:09

also a maller, like he gets after people. He's

17:11

a really tough, physical player. But like

17:14

but again it's one of the things we were talking about earlier

17:16

with I forget which player, but if you're

17:18

tough and physical and versatile and

17:20

you're technically sound, like that's a profile

17:22

that plays in the NFL, regardless of the fact

17:25

that he's a six year senior. Yeah,

17:27

that's all fair. And he's a guy that just he

17:29

has like a bad body too, you know it. See he's not athletic,

17:32

he doesn't look the part. But then you watch the tape and

17:34

it's like, oh, I love his finish and I love his an ability

17:36

to compete here, and oh he's an experienced

17:38

player and a willing player and a tough guy. Perfect

17:41

Day three type of option for these offensive line

17:43

rooms. Let's do. Let's throw some player comps out

17:45

for this group right again, the tackles and guards.

17:48

I'm gonna steal one from you because you and I actually

17:50

just watched this player for the first time a

17:52

couple of weeks ago. This is Brandon Daniels,

17:55

the left tackle from Utah. Just under

17:57

six foot four, under three hundred pounds,

17:59

so he's size. He's played left tackle,

18:02

he's played right tackle, he's played left guard,

18:04

so he's played he started a three different position.

18:06

So again we're talking about that proven versatility.

18:08

This is a good athlete and so

18:10

I wouldn't shock me if some viewed him as even like potential

18:13

center. Moving down the Lineman somewhere

18:15

he took some center snaps, either in mobile

18:18

or in practice one day. Would not shock

18:20

me if someone viewed him as a center at the end of the day.

18:22

So I was going through and I'm like, yeah, like I really liked him,

18:25

and we're talking through and you threw a name out and I

18:27

was like, oh, man, that is a perfect comp. This

18:29

player was a Day three pick what

18:32

was it now, two years ago, three years ago out of Kansas

18:34

to the Cincinnati Bengals, and he started a bunch of games.

18:36

He's probably more of a like a low end starter, high end

18:38

swing backup, ideally tackle. He's filled

18:41

in a right tackle. I think he's even played some guard in some pinches.

18:43

Hachimadenergy. I think it's a great

18:45

comp for Brandon Daniels. And again people

18:48

will say like, oh, like, what are you gonna do with a chimadenergy?

18:50

Like, so what, that's a useful player in the NFL

18:52

that I have, like a swing backup that can fill in a number

18:54

of different spots. Brandon Daniels that I think

18:56

that's his floor. It would not shock me off

18:58

a team like took a swing on him earlier than we

19:00

expect because he's got some athletic

19:02

traits. I actually kind of really liked his tackle

19:05

tape from this year. There's there are things

19:07

that to correct for sure. He's got your stronger,

19:09

really good Ben. He flies out

19:11

of his stance now really counter off. He oversets

19:14

sometimes too, but you love the quickness

19:16

out of the positional flex.

19:18

As you had mentioned, He's a guy just like a Dnergy

19:21

and everyone less miles I think showed up at Kansas

19:23

that summer. They kicked a energy in the center.

19:25

Yep. Now they did a practice or two, a couple

19:27

of weeks of practice, went back to tackle. But functional

19:30

Ben, functional length with some

19:32

rawness. That's what you take on day three.

19:34

So we'll give you the steal on

19:37

that one. Two quick ones here, high level

19:39

guy and a day three guy. Paris Johnson

19:41

reminds me a lot of Tron Armstead

19:44

coming at Arkansas Pine Bluff. You

19:46

know the guy Kansas Pine Bluff. I got the right

19:48

Well, yeah, I believe there's fine bluff. Yeah, excellent

19:51

gifted feet. He's gonna have to rework. We work

19:53

some hands and some technique things, but gifted

19:56

gifted feet. High level player. Expect

19:58

him to look like a Terron Armstead. When it's

20:00

all said and done, and a day three guy Blake

20:03

Freeland tested really well. Don't

20:05

forget he's a unique giant. He's every

20:07

bit of six seven sixty eight. Runs

20:09

me a lot of Jared Veld here, who is every

20:11

bit that size as well, but kind of a short

20:13

armed profile. But he's a guy that has really

20:16

good height, really good strength, and really good

20:18

movement patterns as we saw from Freeland

20:20

here. And one thing, fran I, we're gonna chime

20:23

in here and kind of snipe

20:25

the rundown for lack of better way we go. So

20:27

we're gonna change the question here. We want to talk about

20:30

some guys who weren't getting some love, so

20:32

we can easily mention some guys. Yes, but

20:34

I'm gonna throw this out to you here. We just

20:36

went through a bunch of superlatives. Why

20:38

doesn't a guy like Darnel

20:41

Right get mentioned in any of the superlatives

20:43

we have just talked about. Well, that's so typically

20:46

the way we'll do this, and we'll go through it. They'll be like, all right,

20:48

there's a guy we didn't mention here, and Darnel

20:50

Right is certainly one of them. There are two other

20:52

players that are in first round discussion

20:54

that we also have not mentioned. We haven't mentioned

20:57

Darnel right, we haven't mentioned Dwan Jones

20:59

from a house to we haven't mentioned Anton Harrison

21:01

from Oklahoma. So really, like all

21:04

three we can said, all right, like why didn't

21:06

we talk about this guy? Um? I think with

21:08

Dwan Jones, like we could have easily mentioned

21:10

him. Um, you know in terms of like, all right, they see the

21:12

best in the run game because you look at it, like his size,

21:15

but then you look at it, he's not the best in space. He

21:17

still needs to work from a technique standpoint.

21:19

Um, you know, he's probably a little bit too tall and

21:21

long to be a guard, and he's not the best

21:23

past protecting option. He's not a better past protector than Paris

21:25

Johnson is right now, right, So, um, you know, there are a

21:27

guy, And I think with all these guys, it's like you said,

21:30

they all have strengths and they all have

21:32

flaws. So it's about finding out, like, all right, where

21:34

where did they fit in in between? Yeah?

21:37

I think that's fair. Yeah, it's just kind of how I wanted

21:39

to set up the segment, just saying

21:41

they all have flaws, which makes some guys

21:43

like Darnell, Right, if he's a B plus, a

21:45

minus and a lot of categories, he

21:48

may not be a suit for us to find

21:50

an A or an A plus in any one category

21:52

here in these superlatives. So I think Darnell

21:54

is gonna find himself in the first round. And

21:56

I really think Juan is gonna end up being one

21:58

of those twenty five five to thirty

22:01

this year, thirty one late first round

22:03

picks for me, one

22:06

guy that I was so, I'm just like a little shocked isn't

22:08

getting a little bit more love as well? Uh? You actually

22:10

alluded to him briefly. That's Matthew Bergeron

22:13

from Syracuse. This is the guy that want when I watch

22:15

him on film, there are I think there are a

22:17

lot of similarities to like a Tyrant

22:19

or a h the Smith Smith

22:22

who got drafted by Dallas last year. Not

22:24

Tyrant Smith, Um Tyler

22:26

Tyler Smith, Thank you Ada Tulsa last

22:29

year. I think when you're looking at Matthew bergeron six

22:31

five three eighteen, Uh, he's played both

22:33

tackle spots over the course of his career. He is

22:35

athletic, and he is a menace man

22:37

like. He gets after people in the run game.

22:39

He is so much fun to watch, probably one of the more fun

22:42

offensive line tapes to study in

22:44

this class. Um. And actually, ironically

22:46

enough, like at the combine last year or this

22:48

past spring last month, uh, talking

22:50

with a lot of a lot of the defensive

22:53

lineman in this class, said hey, who's the toughest

22:55

guy that he got up against? Bergeron's name

22:57

came up the most often. Um, you know, and it

22:59

happened that he played up against a lot of pro prospects

23:01

this past season. But it's a Smith

23:04

reflection there because to my two

23:06

major notes on bergieron vice grips

23:08

for hands, Yes, loves the torque and control

23:11

you, and once he gets a hold of the inside, it's usually

23:13

over. The other thing is he doesn't

23:15

run the arc against speed. He tries

23:17

to wall off the arc and

23:19

he tries to be very physical and violent

23:22

at the top of them. I'm gonna beat you to the point

23:24

and beat you up. Yep, Tyler Smith did all

23:26

the time. Or he didn't want to run you around the arc

23:28

and the quarterback, He's gonna take you and then push

23:30

you up the field away from the quarterback.

23:33

It's okay to be violent at the top of the rush.

23:35

He don't just have to be athletic all the time. Something

23:37

I thought Bergieron did very well. And that's the thing

23:39

is that he's like a We're probably

23:42

say he's a better run blocker than pass protector right

23:44

now, despite the fact that he's athletic, And that's

23:46

kind of what we said about Tyer Smith last Year's like, oh, like he's

23:48

a little bit of a mess and pass protection. Look at all the penalties,

23:50

but man, he's gonna get after you in the run game. And that's kind of

23:52

how I view bursier On. The body types are very

23:54

similar. I think Bersieron's a

23:56

really good player. So I have a grand I watched him

23:58

and I think September so I watched a lot of his twenty

24:01

twenty one and then I started to watch his early

24:03

season at Syracuse and Sean Tucker in

24:05

comparison Mike

24:07

comp after watching him was Tristan Worfs.

24:09

Yeah, right, very

24:12

thick through the lower half. Now, I

24:14

wrote right underneath him, won't test like Worfs.

24:17

Watch was literally we're gonna talk about combine

24:19

freaks. In the last twenty five years, he's

24:21

in the top ten. Tristan worfs that doesn't

24:24

happen every five ten years.

24:26

He is a freak, But Matthew Bergeron does

24:28

a lot of the same things. Is that kind

24:30

of barrel chested, thick through the lower half.

24:33

He might end up being a guard when it's all said

24:35

and done, which I think is okay, too

24:38

real quick before we moved to the interior, guys, can you give me a

24:40

quick elevator speech on Anton Harrison

24:42

from Oklahoma just because he's another first round guy that

24:44

we haven't definitely hit on too hard. Yeah.

24:46

Two years starter at Oklahoma, two

24:49

year starter at left tackle there. He just turned

24:51

twenty one years old in February, and he's

24:53

got really good length, he's got good size,

24:55

he had good athleticism and he ran four

24:57

ninety eight at three hundred and fifteen pounds.

25:00

Now, the issue with him just needs to get

25:02

a little bit stronger, needs to get more consistent

25:04

with technique, and really needs to work

25:06

on his athleticism and some functional

25:08

flexibility and bend as well. He's

25:10

a guy with a double knee brace and just doesn't

25:13

get low and underneath defenders enough in

25:15

both phases the run in the past, but

25:17

he looks the part. He has the length and the athletic

25:20

profile you really cove it, and

25:22

the age factor if you believe in that he's a young

25:24

kid. So that's what the tape

25:26

tells me. Now let's figure out who he is. If

25:29

he's coachable and can maybe adapt and learn,

25:31

and he looks like a Day one

25:33

type of starter that might struggle his rookie

25:35

year, but if things click, he could be a

25:37

perennial Pro Bowl or Anton Harrison's a very

25:39

interesting player. And don't sleep on Lanya

25:42

Morris on the other side. Oh, I think is going to be

25:44

a nice Day three pick again to fill out your offensive

25:46

line room. Is that seventh eighth type

25:48

of guy heading into his rookie season?

25:50

All right, let's go to the interior linement here and

25:52

again these are guys that are gonna be more like guard

25:54

center prospects. And over the last

25:57

decade, the average number of players

25:59

that fit this category fifteen point

26:01

two. There were sixteen last year. It was fifteen

26:04

the year before, so we're right around that number.

26:06

The last couple as we sit here, Ben

26:08

over under fifteen point two from this group, we're

26:11

gonna go under again, ye under the first category.

26:13

Unted to this category I just don't see the day

26:15

three depth or the

26:18

exponential high level. So I think

26:20

we're gonna get a good run from thirty

26:23

to sixty in the draft there and get

26:25

some of those high level next wave of high

26:27

level guys, but I just don't see the depth through day

26:29

three to really increase those numbers.

26:31

It feels light. It's definitely feels light at

26:33

Center this year. For sure. I think

26:35

that the guards might save it. Actually think this

26:37

one has a better chance of hitting the over than

26:40

the last group. But

26:42

again it does get kind of shaky. It depends on

26:44

how you view some of these guards and all that. You know. Next

26:46

year, as though Fran the year of the Center, Center

26:49

Center class coming up, there a

26:51

lot of depth coming up that

26:53

Ben says this every single year. I watually loves the center

26:55

class. Always been optimistic

26:58

forecast on centers and don't we get there

27:00

and it's like one or two going. It's like just

27:03

looking around and it's just a waste land. Yeah,

27:05

nobody else out there. It's the Will Smith, the fresh

27:07

Prince, Jeff Um. Let's let's

27:09

talk about the center is the best pure center. Who's

27:12

the best in this group? They're just a guy that lining

27:14

up. Uh, you know at the pivot that

27:16

you feel best about for me Day one, Day

27:18

two, I think you gotta go John Michael Schmidtz.

27:21

I think he does have a good shot at going in

27:23

round one. Um. You know, we'll see a team

27:25

like Seattle or the Giants in the back end there

27:27

of the first round. But I think when you're looking at Don Michael

27:29

schmidt Um, he's a He's a bully

27:32

up front. He's a big, physical player,

27:34

likes to get after you. He's he's a little bit light

27:37

lighter than you would think considering the playstyle because

27:40

when you watch him, like man like this guy's got great strain

27:42

to finish. He's constantly getting guys to the ground.

27:45

I compared him to Ryan Denson Um just

27:47

from like a play style standpoint, because

27:49

he's not like the most athletic guy you've

27:51

ever watched. He's also not like the most powerful,

27:53

like you know, push people off the ball. But he's

27:55

just like nasty and like and Jensen

27:58

was a Day three pick. Schmidtz were again we're talking more

28:00

like first or second round. But he's

28:03

a lot of fun to watch. He's got really good hand placement,

28:05

especially in the run game. The grip strength is really

28:07

impressive, more strong than

28:09

powerful. Again, like he's not like a oh Man.

28:11

Just line him up one on one and move him. That's why he's

28:13

a center and not a guard. At the end of the day, I think, but this

28:16

is a guy that can hold the integrity, the pocket and pass

28:18

protection. I believe pff. Yeah,

28:20

coming into this year, he

28:22

had never given up a sack. He gave up two this

28:25

season as a senior. But we're

28:27

looking at John Michael Schmidts. I think this kid's a center all

28:29

day. Yeah, it seems like he's gonna be

28:31

a Creed Humphrey type of guy. Or Tyler Linderbaum.

28:33

Come right in start day one, never look back.

28:36

Day three option for center was really

28:38

close to picking Jake Andrews here. Yep. He's

28:40

a guy that I think might actually be a guard at

28:42

the next level. He might. I cannot stop thinking

28:44

about his twenty twenty one tape where he played right

28:46

guard against South Carolina. That tape

28:49

is like burn into my brain. He looked

28:51

incredible that day. Then he slid in the

28:53

center for twenty twenty two and had some ups

28:56

and downs, and maybe he didn't look as

28:58

good as at right guard spot. But anyways, day three

29:00

option center, give me Ricky Stromberg

29:02

all day long for n You guys smart, quick

29:04

off the ball, not just quick off the ball in

29:06

one phase. He's quick off the ball to get

29:09

up to the second level. It's quick off the ball to

29:11

go chase you know, defenders. He's

29:13

quick off the ball just to engage.

29:15

Nose tackles in one chats. Sometimes being

29:18

quick to engage and get into your opponent

29:20

before they get off the ball than half the battle, no

29:23

question. Yeah, it might even be closer to like

29:25

a full battle if you can really accentuate

29:27

this. Another guy, it's thirty one hundred snaps

29:30

in the developmental NFL that we call the SEC.

29:33

This guy is gonna make an NFL team,

29:35

maybe not a starter, day one, day two,

29:37

year one, year two. He's a guy you want

29:39

to fill out your room. And he's a guy it's also played both

29:41

guard spots. He's had some ups

29:43

and downs in his career. That's life in

29:45

the SEC. I got news for you. Jordan Davis

29:48

whooped them, But that's okay. He's

29:50

better for it. I promise you. Those are NFL

29:52

caliber nose tackles. He's gonna face and

29:54

he knows how to handle it. Let's go

29:56

to let's go to the next category here, best

29:58

pure guard. So this guy who's just the best pure

30:00

guard in class. And I'll let you kick it off with the first

30:03

half of the draft. I don't want to go at TCUs

30:05

Steve a Villa. Yeah, you know. I just feel like

30:07

his positional flex his movement

30:10

patterns, his strength, his functional

30:12

mobility, his size,

30:14

which I don't think is an

30:17

inhibitor for better or worse. Sometimes

30:19

you get too big and inhibits you. You get too light

30:22

and then create some flaws. I think he's right

30:24

in that three thirty range with a

30:26

thick lower half, with functional movements.

30:28

He's a guy that played right tackle

30:30

initially at TCU. He's a guy will

30:32

they'll do that turnback protection or they'll kick

30:34

out the guard a bock the edge. A lot of

30:37

times in his slide protection he'll

30:39

go pick up the edge side of

30:41

his left tackle. I put up a couple of clips

30:43

on Twitter a few months ago of that. He's very

30:45

athletic and functionally

30:47

strong. He is a really impressive player. Friend,

30:49

where do you want to play on left guard, center, right

30:52

guard? I don't know yet, but he's the best guard

30:54

in this class in my opinion. You

30:57

and I have not talked about this player yet, because I just watched him

30:59

a few days ago, and I know we haven't talked about him

31:01

since that point. So I'm gonna go with City

31:03

sal from Eastern Michigan. I

31:06

love this kid on tape. It's on tape. Six foot

31:08

five, three hundred twenty three pounds. He is

31:11

powerful, he's athletic. I

31:13

think the athleticism probably showed up a little bit better at

31:15

the combine than when it does on tape. I don't think he necessarily

31:17

plays to that, but for a big kid, he moves well.

31:19

He's rarely on the ground. He's got pretty impressive

31:22

quickness to me, Like you

31:24

watch that. He's got bear traps for hand. He's

31:27

heavy handed with his punch and pass bro something's

31:29

to clean up and pass protection overall, but

31:32

he's better in the run game than he is right

31:34

now in pass protection. This guy is strong, he's

31:36

powerful, he's athletic, and I

31:38

am old enough to remember a taller

31:40

guard, you know, six foot five, three hundred twenty

31:42

plus pounds who did not get invited

31:44

to the Senior Bowl went to a lesser All Star Game.

31:47

This guy went to the Shrine game, dominated

31:49

that week in practice, dominated in the game.

31:51

It was like noted in the broadcast. It's like, oh yeah, this

31:53

guy is a big time player.

31:55

I believe was not invited to the combine, ended

31:58

up being a third round pick to the host to Texas

32:00

out of the MAC also Ben that

32:03

was Brandon Brooks, And I wonder if City

32:05

Sal, who is very similar from a build

32:07

standpoint and like a skill set standpoint, like,

32:09

can he become one of the better guards in football.

32:12

I think City Sal like has that potential. He's

32:15

actually been on my list for a number of years

32:17

and I can't remember why or where. I

32:19

can't remember if he was a freaklift or if somebody

32:21

gave me a nugget about him, but

32:23

I've watched a considerable amount of his tape. He's

32:26

played some good competition too. This past

32:28

year you watch him against Arizona State, Western,

32:30

Michigan, Toledo. So

32:32

I've actually have notes from him from a few seasons.

32:34

Really impressive player with his Size's

32:36

played some left guard, he's even played some left tackle

32:39

at times. He's for his redshirt

32:41

freshman year. He's started eleven games and left

32:43

tackle back in twenty He's got fifty five starts

32:45

in his career. Yeah, this is what I'm just gonna read my

32:47

notes raw. So if there's some bad notes in here, they're

32:49

getting red. So run blocking, fires,

32:51

off ball exceptionally well for his size, elite

32:54

latching control. Once he gets hands and controls

32:56

defenders, it's very tough for them to shed

32:58

the block post snap assessing is

33:00

excellent. He doesn't reach or take the cheese

33:02

with moving or slanting lineman, good clean

33:05

sets. Doesn't move his feet particularly well

33:07

obviously, he's three hundred and thirty pounds. Can't

33:09

chase targets on the second level, can't

33:11

get to the second level aiming points, no

33:14

real redirect on inside moves. Loves

33:16

the pull from the backside, and power schemes, especially

33:18

on the goal line. So we're getting

33:21

a really interesting, well built

33:23

offensive guard that maybe doesn't have the athletic

33:25

profile you know for certain schemes.

33:28

He's my guy that I think like gets drafted on like

33:30

the like the second or third round that it like blows

33:33

everybody away. But no one's talking about him right now that high.

33:35

So that's why I have him made it on

33:37

my sheet. He's been on my sheet, I legitimately

33:39

for three or four years, and I'm just not sure why

33:42

you gotta make that note. I've I've made that adjustment

33:44

a couple of years ago where I just like put that in anytime someone

33:47

good new gets out of the sheet. Um, let's

33:49

go down to the next category. You're best in space. This

33:51

is a guy that who was the best blocker on the move, you

33:53

know, again, whether it's run game or pass game. Um,

33:56

for me, you've actually mentioned this player earlier. I

33:59

do have Cody from North Dakota State

34:01

with my interior alignment just because of the frame. But

34:03

this kid is really athletic. He's

34:06

really he's an outstanding finisher, whether

34:08

it's the screen game, whether it's outside zones, reach

34:10

blocks from the backside, he fires off

34:13

the ball, he's got really good play speed. He's just

34:15

really fluid. Again, he's just never on the ground. The athleticism

34:17

really stands out. So Cody Mock from

34:19

North Dakota State, He's gonna be my pick here for best

34:22

in space and this class. That's a great one, Fran I

34:24

think, And if you're draft a Cody Mock, you

34:26

have to take advantage of his athleticism and

34:29

his ability to move. He's a little bit light in the

34:31

pants, especially to be projected on the

34:33

inside. You better make sure he's

34:35

more athletic than your opponent with pulling

34:37

him, working him to the perimeter, let him chase

34:39

backers on the second level. But a day three

34:42

option. One quick little call out. How about

34:44

Joe Tipman out of Wisconsin. I think he's going to

34:46

be center to right after

34:48

John Michael Schmidt. He's a guy would look great

34:50

with the Giants as well, maybe even goes in Round

34:52

one. But a day three day

34:55

option here, which they love to pull jo Joe Tipman,

34:58

So he's a great blocker on the move, but a Day three option.

35:01

How about Alex Forsyth out of Oregon.

35:03

He's a guy's experience and that dried

35:06

up you know, center class. I have

35:08

him as my top five center. He's my number five center

35:10

in this class. So he's a guy that can get

35:12

to the second level, looks good in the screen game,

35:15

can do some functional reaches and some quickness

35:17

off the ball. He's a guy that's probably a

35:19

six seventh round pick, maybe a priority

35:21

free agent. I think it's really going to battle

35:23

in camp and kind of fight his way onto a roster.

35:25

And one other shout out Chandler Zavala

35:28

at a Louisville. I think it's gonna go in that Joe

35:30

Tipman range somewhere between twenty five

35:32

and forty five. He's another guy. It's really

35:34

good on the move, really quick off the ball,

35:36

good on the second level, good on the perimeter,

35:39

good just getting off the ball quickly for reach

35:41

blocks and you know, backside cutoffs. So

35:43

Zavala Tipman mock probably

35:46

more in the day one, Day two option. Alex

35:48

Forsyth late in the draft though, don't forget about

35:50

him. I love that, actually really liked Alex

35:53

Forsyth as well. I think he's a starter. I think

35:55

that he can come into play. Flip on Twitter

35:57

from last year. It's getting up to the second level

35:59

in a screen game, so perfect, you know, plays

36:01

in space and on the move, all

36:04

right, best technician who's the best of their hands

36:07

here on the interior bend from day one of Daizo

36:09

Cyrus Torrens. I think he's the guy for his

36:11

size. I think he plays really efficient

36:13

hands. I want his footwork to get cleaned

36:15

up just a little bit, but his ability to

36:17

grip and torque and play with really tight

36:20

hands, keep his elbows in most

36:22

of the time, and play within the defender's

36:24

chest. He does a really good job

36:26

doing that, and at nearly three hundred and forty

36:28

pounds and his size, it's really

36:30

tough to beat an offensive guard

36:32

that doesn't beat himself. So he's

36:34

a guy I think really uses his hands well to get

36:37

the job done. From a down to down basis. For

36:40

me, We're gonna go Day three to Notre Dame,

36:43

and that's Jared Patterson. A guy who has played

36:45

center, He's played left tackle, he

36:47

played left guard this past year. He's never given

36:49

up a sack in his career. He's only given a five

36:52

quarterback hicks hits in forty

36:54

six starts. So I think when you look at

36:56

Jared Patterson, he's not gonna

36:58

value athletically. He's not to blow people

37:00

off the ball with power. He's not the strongest

37:02

in the world. But this guy knows how to use his hand.

37:05

He's got a great feel. He's really

37:07

patient both in

37:09

the in the past game and then his timing in the in the run

37:11

game is also really good. He sings his hips into contact

37:13

well. He just plays with good pad level and good

37:15

hand placement and that's half the battle. That versatility's

37:18

gonna help him. I think he's gonna be with a really important

37:20

swing backup for a team, probably

37:22

more on the interior, just because he's got less than

37:25

thirty one and a half inch arm So I think that length

37:27

is is like a automatically you have to pump him

37:29

inside. But Jared Patterson as

37:31

a guard center backup, I think he's a

37:33

really good technician moving forward. I think that's a really good

37:35

one. He's another guy that's played a lot of football and

37:37

has had some highs and lows. And if he

37:39

and his shran his lows together, he does

37:42

you can play on Sundays, but you put his highs together

37:44

and look what can he do on Sundays? What can

37:46

he provide to an offensive line room. This

37:48

guy's got some ability and you know, at one point

37:50

he was probably a Day two projection. Unfortunately

37:53

he slid to more of a Day three type. That's

37:55

okay. I think he's going to be an NFL player.

37:59

Favorite player comp I did the first one last time, so

38:01

you can lead us off. Favorite player COMPU. Shout

38:04

out to my UCLA guys. Tim Drevno

38:06

offensive line coach out

38:08

there. They are finalists for the Joe Moore Award.

38:10

I really like both their guards. Friend John

38:13

Gaines the second more of an undersized, athletic

38:15

type of guy. Antonio Mafi left

38:18

guard, more of that big bruising maller quick

38:20

comps for both of them. Yep, Frand, I

38:23

think John Gaines the second is

38:25

a spitting image clone of Cole

38:27

Strange. I think they play

38:29

exactly the same, a little bit of a lean, tight

38:31

waist type of interior guard. Can

38:33

get overwhelmed with power, absolutely can

38:35

get overwhelmed. Watch John Gaines go up against

38:38

big Corey Durden. I think at the Shrine Bowl

38:40

he get blasted back just like Cole Strange.

38:42

He get blasted back, just like Cornell Volson got blasted

38:45

back as a rookie. But he's really athletic,

38:47

really functional, really smart. He's guy picks

38:49

up stunts and loopers, keeps his eyes up,

38:52

plays a great posture, doesn't beat himself.

38:55

Just not super heavy, you know, in the

38:57

lower half. He's not great against power, but he's

38:59

got super small, are super functional.

39:01

I think he's gonna be a zone blocking wizard

39:03

at the next level. Antonio Mafi, he's

39:05

three forty. He's a mahler. He's a guy that

39:07

doesn't have the athleticism, doesn't have the

39:09

movement, but if you're on the tracks, he will

39:12

run you over like a locomotive, a

39:14

lot like Chris Kemiatu if you remember

39:16

him back. I believe Steelers

39:20

a bit of a mauling type of guard. Yes,

39:23

that's the profile those two guards. And I expect

39:25

them both to get drafted, and I expect

39:27

them both to play on Sundays. I

39:30

love when you pull up the names from like the mid

39:32

two thousands as always a good comp for

39:35

me. I want to go Javon Gwynn, the offensive

39:38

lineman from South Carolina, who really

39:40

I had not studied him before the Shrine

39:42

or before the Combine. Rather Gwen out Indianapolis,

39:45

and I was really blown away by his position workout

39:47

then. But that is the danger in going

39:49

just off of what you see in person

39:51

and from an athletic standpoint, because his

39:54

film he definitely needs a lot of work. You know, he's under six two,

39:56

he's under three hundred, he's got short armed, and

39:58

he can get blown back. He needs to get strong. Are too many

40:00

easy knock backs for defensive linemen.

40:02

Both in the past pass game and in the

40:04

run game. Um doesn't have that oom fun contact,

40:07

so he definitely needs to get stronger, a lot

40:09

of wasted steps going into contact. I think his footwork

40:12

and his hand usage needs to improve. But honestly,

40:14

the way he like moved, the way he's built

40:17

kind of reminds me of Jonathan Cooper. And Jonathan Cooper

40:19

was a top ten pick out of North Carolina

40:21

by the Arizona Cardinals, and uh, you know,

40:23

he struggled just because you know, from from a play

40:25

strike standpoint and some injuries got started

40:28

to mount there, but from a pure like movement

40:30

standpoint, watching Javon Gwynn, I was like, WHOA,

40:32

Like, this guy's got he's got next level ability,

40:34

but he does have a lot of areas that he I like to

40:37

chime in with one quick off the cuff

40:39

off the radar question for you. There

40:41

was eight redshirt sophomores at the Combine

40:44

this year. Six of them

40:46

are pretty much locks to go in the first

40:48

round. The two that were interesting were

40:51

Tanner McKee, add a Stanford in

40:53

center, Luke Whippler out of Ohio State.

40:56

Luke, which was one of the guys we didn't mention in this podcast,

40:58

it's a grid talk about him.

41:01

Where do you project him and where do you kind

41:03

of think he falls himself in the draft,

41:05

which redshirt sophomore always

41:07

pains you a little bit to talk about those guys

41:10

later and mid of the draft because you'd

41:12

wish they'd go back to school if they were not

41:14

a high level player. But he's a really

41:16

interesting player and number two player out of Jersey just

41:18

a few years ago. Actually, the LA crosse wrestling

41:20

background, really athletic family,

41:23

good tape at Ohio State the past two years,

41:25

just doesn't seem to be talked about in a top one

41:28

hundred conversation. Yeah,

41:31

I think when you're talking about like an undersized center

41:33

only you know, those guys tend

41:36

to like get overlooked a little bit, especially

41:38

if they're younger, right, because there's just not that

41:40

body of work out there for that momentum in the media

41:43

to build. And I think when you're looking at Whippler under

41:45

six foot three, three hundred pounds, he's

41:47

a center only all day. That's what he was at

41:50

Ohio State. That's what it'll be in the NFL. I

41:52

think I really like his athleticism, his snapped

41:54

a block quickness is really really good. You're gonna see a

41:56

lot of guys that you know where they struggle at center is

41:58

where the snap happens, and they're two slow to

42:00

get from there to contact him against the defensive

42:03

tackle. That's not gonna be an issue with Whippler. He's

42:05

also got really liked feet. Um, he's able to mirror

42:07

inside with with these That's not gonna be an

42:09

issue for him. He's not a power player, but uh,

42:11

you know he I thought he held his own from a play

42:13

strength standpoint, and I thought he had a solid

42:15

technique across the board as well, Um, really

42:17

good range as a blocker, He's able to execute any

42:20

block you need in the playbook. I actually

42:22

think he was probably like a mid round guy. Like it wouldn't

42:24

shock me if he snuck into the latter stages of day

42:26

two. Um, you know if a team thought like, hey, you

42:28

know what we can we can plug him in as a starter.

42:30

I actually think he's more of like a like

42:33

early round three type of player then say

42:35

like a five or six. I think he's more

42:38

that day ahead of a OLA

42:40

with Timmy, who I think is a similar profile but

42:42

experienced obviously three schools and

42:44

has played forever or like a Juice

42:46

Scrugs at a Penn State though all three

42:48

of those guys are about six two, just over

42:51

three hundred pounds and have a lot of highs

42:53

and lows on their traits, their profiles, their

42:55

tapes. I can't get a feel for Whippler

42:57

Ol with Timmy Scruggs. I feel like they

43:00

look like NFL centers and interior

43:02

guys. I just can't see a lot

43:04

of buzz or projection on them to figure out

43:06

where they're gonna get drafted and if the NFL is actually

43:09

excited about them, Yeah,

43:12

I think I would stack at Whippler

43:14

Scrugs and then Alloa

43:16

Timmy. Um. And you know, to

43:19

your point, like the center class this year isn't supremely

43:21

strong, uh, And so I I do wonder

43:23

like how those guys end up coming off the board when

43:25

they come off, if they come off the board, Um, I

43:27

think Scrugs you're probably talking about and like that

43:30

five six range, and I think you're

43:33

talking about all of Timmy like a little bit later than

43:35

that it would be my guests. But um, you know, like I know

43:37

that there are fans of all of with Timmy out there. I've talked

43:39

with people, uh you know that cover that region

43:41

that say like, why isn't all of a Timmy getting more Day

43:43

two buzz right? So um yeah, I think that's

43:45

a that's gonna be interesting to see how the centers ultimately

43:47

gets stacked by the NFL out

43:49

there, working with Big Duke Manny Weather as well in that

43:52

group. So he's a guy that's certainly uh as

43:54

the office education to go with his

43:56

experience at Michigan and Virginia.

43:59

Well, Ben, we will be talking with you

44:01

again. What is it? Now to thirty

44:03

six hours for another edition here of the Journey of the Draft

44:05

podcast. Appreciate you pinch hitting here this week

44:08

for Dane. Hopefully we'll have Dane back next

44:10

week right here on the Journey of the Draft Podcast.

44:15

Now it's time to hear from you the fans

44:17

in the Draft mail Bag. So

44:21

again, great stuff there from Ben. Let's now

44:23

get into a couple of questions in our Draft Mailbag

44:26

segment again. The best way to reach us here on

44:28

Draft Mailbag go over to Apple Podcast,

44:31

leave us a review, leave us a comment. If

44:33

you've got a question about a specific prospect,

44:35

you can do that here if you've got a mock draft you

44:37

want us to break down, you can do that. If you want to have

44:39

us breakdown a couple of different players, we could do

44:42

that. And that's exactly what U F. Steve

44:44

did. He went and left a five star review

44:46

saying great podcast, great breakdowns. He said,

44:48

Hey, Fran, I'm a Dallas Cowboys fan, but I

44:50

am not afraid to say that you have one of the best draft podcasts

44:53

in the business. I started listening last year when

44:55

I saw that Dane Brugler was on regularly, and

44:57

I'm definitely a loyal listener for the four

45:00

seeable future. I was hoping that you

45:02

could break down a couple of the dbs that I have not heard

45:04

mentioned much so far, and what rounds

45:06

you see them going in. Corey Trice from

45:09

Purdue and Shamari Connor from Virginia

45:11

Tech. Thanks and keep up the great work

45:13

from Steven Hudson. Well, Steve, appreciate

45:15

the kind words about the podcast. Thanks so much for listening,

45:18

and thanks for the question. We've got two dbs.

45:20

I think both guys probably in the day

45:22

three range. I think at the end of the day, when you're

45:24

looking at Corey Trice from Purdue.

45:26

What stands out right off the bat his size,

45:29

it's almost six three and a half over two hundred

45:31

pounds, thirty two and a half inch arms. He

45:33

looks the part really

45:35

really well built. I think from a production

45:38

standpoint, that's where it leaves you wanting a little

45:40

bit. Two picks this year he had a touchdown

45:42

and ten PBu so that this was his most productive

45:45

year. But he hadn't had an interception in the last

45:47

two years combined previous to that.

45:49

So you're talking about a big body kid who

45:51

actually moves pretty well. Unique

45:53

size, but when you see like a guy that can go up

45:55

in the line of scrimmage and test the

45:57

way that he did. I mean he went six seven flats

46:00

in the three cone, outstanding time, sub

46:02

four flat in the short shuttle, outstanding

46:05

number, especially for a big, tall,

46:07

long corner. He played a lot of press. He

46:09

can get a little bit better with his technique up at the line

46:11

of scrimmage. His ball skills are solid. I

46:14

really liked the most against the run, and that's why I think

46:16

Corey Trice he's going to be in that discussion

46:18

of corners that could make that move to safety,

46:21

just because I think when you look at the size and his ability

46:23

to play downhill, the questions about him playing

46:25

with his back to the football and trying to find it late.

46:27

He's a really reliable tackler. He's not a

46:29

powerful striker, but he's almost always

46:31

gonna get his man to the ground. He's just a good finisher

46:34

one on one. Like I said, I do think he's

46:36

probably like an early Day three selection. But

46:38

because he was, you know, six three and a half and two

46:41

hundred and six pounds and tested as well as

46:43

he did. He think he had an RAS score

46:45

the RAST score of nine point sixty

46:47

three coming out of the combine, which is a really

46:49

good number for the cornerbacks. That's out of ten,

46:51

So a really really strong athletic

46:54

testing score for Corey Trice, twenty

46:56

three year old redshirt senior. This is a guy that you

46:58

know, I think you can kind of bet on what

47:00

he could be down the road. So if

47:02

you're a team like Dallas that likes

47:05

size at the cornerback position and likes

47:07

some athleticism, I could see a team like

47:09

that investing in him. One thing I would

47:11

say is that the Cowboys typically

47:13

like to trend towards guys with a lot of ball production

47:16

and really good ball skills. And if you look at a lot of the big

47:18

corners they've drafted, that has been the case

47:20

Corey Trice over the course of his career. That

47:23

has not been the case this past year as a senior.

47:25

Two picks and ten PBUs was a pretty

47:27

solid showing. So I think on day three

47:29

he definitely could be in play for them. I think when

47:31

you look at Shamari Connor, it's the complete

47:33

opposite, because Shamari Connor, he is

47:36

a very undersized safety to the

47:38

point where some people think he's more of a nickel. He's kind

47:40

of like a like a Brian Branch type

47:42

in terms of a body type. Standpoint six foot right

47:44

around two hundred pounds. I thought he tested

47:46

a little bit better than I thought he would. He ran four or five one

47:49

at the combine. He jumped forty and a half and a vert,

47:51

really really good number. I just like the

47:53

football player forty eight starts, over three

47:55

thousand snaps, played over six hundred

47:58

snaps, and the core special teams unit. So at

48:00

your very least, I think you're getting a backup

48:02

safety and core special teams player. But what

48:04

stands out about Connor is his

48:06

versatility. I mentionally he's played

48:09

some field safety. He'll play the nickel corner

48:11

in sub so he's got some position flex

48:13

there. He's got real stopping power. He packs

48:15

a punch as a tackler, a heavy hitter

48:17

over the middle of the field. He's not like the

48:19

best athlete when you watch him on tape. I

48:21

mentioned that kind of surprised me the way he tested out in

48:23

Indianapolis. But he can come up

48:25

and play some press in the slot. He's got

48:27

a lot of reps in under his own coverage. He's got a knack

48:29

for feeling routes developing around him. He can man

48:32

up on slot receivers and he shows some route recognition

48:34

skills in trail. He can get a little bit grabby

48:37

at times, but has been really consistently

48:39

productive on the football. He takes good

48:41

angles downhill, he gets good angles

48:43

to the catchpoint as well. A reliable

48:46

tackler to me, and I look at Shamari

48:48

Connor, and again the size

48:50

is not gonna blow you away, the athleticism not gonna

48:52

blow you away. This is a good football player, a

48:54

really experienced one, and you know

48:57

checks a lot of boxes in terms of today's

48:59

NFL and of having that position flex that production

49:02

kind of speaks for itself. So Steve Corey,

49:04

Trice, Chomari Connor, I think both guys

49:06

probably in that like early to mid day three

49:08

kind of range. Wouldn't shock me if either snuck

49:11

get in the back end of day two, but I think it's more likely

49:13

you're seeing them in like round four, round five in

49:16

that area of the draft. We'll go one more

49:18

or one more question here. This one

49:20

from an Eagles fan e R. D j

49:22

k D, who said, Hey, Fran and Gregg,

49:25

always look forward to your Eagle Eye the Sky podcast

49:27

and with these Journeys to the Draft podcasts, they are just

49:29

awesome. It must be so much work, watching so

49:31

much film. Thanks for all that you do. We as

49:33

rabid fans, are looking forward to hearing more about

49:35

what players may be coming to Philly are going to

49:38

other teams. Thanks again for all that you do, so Ard,

49:40

Thanks so much for the for the comment there.

49:42

Let's get to your question, the Eagles question.

49:44

It seems like at number ten it's a pick with a lot

49:46

of unknowns, and if defensive tackle Jalen Carter

49:49

drops number ten, don't you think the Birds

49:51

have to take him. He seems like a perfect fit for us.

49:53

If he has gone, you have to think how he will trade

49:55

back, right, So M E R D. I think

49:57

what I would say is that you know, the

50:00

goes as always are in a position of flexibility,

50:02

that is a position of strength moving forward into

50:04

a draft where you don't have to

50:06

force the issue in any one spot. If

50:08

Jalen Carter fits and he's gonna be high,

50:11

actually he's gonna be high on your

50:13

board, then you can you have the ability to say,

50:15

yeah, let's let's send in the card. If you feel

50:17

like he's not gonna be a fit for you, you can

50:19

make a move and see if a team wants to try and move up into

50:21

your spot or um you know again, like

50:23

you can go elsewhere here with that

50:25

pick. There's gonna be a lot of quality players available

50:28

at number ten. When I think I've

50:30

said this on a number of podcasts here in

50:32

the last few weeks, is that you know this is a beauty

50:35

is in the eye the beholder draft. I think when you look

50:37

at the top six or seven picks, there's

50:39

a lot of consensus there in terms of who's gonna go.

50:41

And obviously it's quarterback heavy. There you

50:43

get into like Will Anderson and it seems like Tyree

50:45

Wilson in that discussion the two defensive vents,

50:47

and then after that, it's gonna be a lot of

50:50

discussion. It's gonna be all right, well, who is who

50:52

is next? Is it Nolan Smith is at

50:54

the corners? Is it Jackson Smith? And Jigba

50:56

is it Paris Johnson and Peter Scronski. You start

50:58

getting into all these other positions, all these other players,

51:01

and really it's going to be, again, a beauty is

51:03

in the eye of the beholder. From one team, that order

51:05

is gonna look one way. For the next team, it's gonna look

51:07

completely different with maybe some other names

51:09

thrown in there. Right, And so I think it's gonna

51:12

be a really fun draft. It's gonna be an

51:14

exciting one in terms of maybe some

51:16

surprise names in the top half of Round one, a

51:18

lot of trades. I would expect there'd be a lot of

51:20

movement by the time we get to draft nights. So this

51:23

is gonna be a fun one. I do think that. You know, look,

51:25

Janlen Carter is a great talent and

51:27

he would be a great fit. But there's lots

51:30

of things that you have to take into account, right, and so I think

51:32

when you look at Jalen Carter, he will be one of the fascinating

51:34

cases, one of the fascinating players to study as

51:37

we get into this draft and see

51:39

exactly where he ends up going off the

51:41

board. So UF Steve E,

51:43

R D, JKD, thanks so much for the questions.

51:45

If you want to reach us, now's the time, because

51:47

I know it always takes a couple of days or so for those questions

51:49

to show up an Apple Podcast. If we get enough

51:51

of these, we'll do a whole episode just on draft

51:54

mail bad questions. So get in there now.

51:56

Send us your questions, send us your mock draft, send us

51:58

your player rankings. Will break it all down with Greg

52:00

Cosell with Ben Fennel. We'll be back here in a couple of days

52:02

with those two guys here on the Journey of

52:04

the Draft Podcast