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travel.com/just a tip that's away, travel.com/just a tip Yeah.

2:14

Welcome to another episode of just a tip.

2:16

It was the podcast that was equally about its tangents, as it is about it's tips.

2:20

It's still about tangents and tips, but now we are really, really digging into another episode of my spiritual journey.

2:28

This time we have this time, we have breath work, teacher and author, Ashley Nissan.

2:34

We talk so much about figuring out what we need in our lives individually and how slowing down in introducing breath work will help us get there.

2:45

I am not going to say anything else because there's so many gems in this episode that I'm just going to play it enjoy.

2:53

Oh, okay. Before we get in, I just wanted to just ask how you were in.

2:57

Thank you for coming on.

3:00

Thank you so much for having me, Megan. I am doing well.

3:02

It's been a busy time.

3:04

We have a three-year-old and there's like both my partner and I work, you know, and I've just wrapped yesterday, actually handed in the manuscript for my second book.

3:12

So this is like, perfect.

3:15

I know. I was like, oh, I'm like, so like relaxed now.

3:18

So this is great, but yeah, I'm doing really well.

3:22

Yeah. So first of all, thank you so much for sending your book.

3:25

That was so nice. Of Course,

3:27

of course. And the little note in it, that's the best when people write notes in the books, that's like not a lot of people do that anymore.

3:36

Yeah. I know. I feel like so many people, especially like bigger authors who are signing like, you know, thousands and thousands of copies.

3:42

It's just like, you get like a squiggle, you know, but this was really nice to just be like, oh, I can write a little note.

3:47

So I'm so glad that you got it.

3:50

It's it's per coming at the, also the perfect time because I'm spending so much time in the desert and I've never felt so connected to myself and the earth.

3:58

And I really, really need this right now.

4:02

And so I'm so happy that we're speaking and it's kind of like the planets are aligning because I've been going through like health issues because I've been so stressed and so overworked.

4:12

And so constantly burned out that my body's like yelling at me.

4:17

And so I'm now trying to slow down and I a keeps coming back to me, people are like, do you do breath work?

4:23

And do you do this? I'm like, I don't think I've ever like taken a breath in my life to be completely honest with you.

4:29

So I'm so excited for everyone listening to hear your story, because I think so many of us and artists in general, we should be connected to ourselves in our breath.

4:41

But now with, you know, capitalism running the art industry, it's like, well, how do we make money?

4:47

But also make art. It's, it's very difficult.

4:50

And so I'm really excited to talk about getting back to the breath.

4:54

And I guess we can start with your journey.

4:57

Like, what was the beginning of your breath work journey?

5:01

Well, I came to, breathwork kind of unconventionally and you know, it's interesting, you're talking about art and design because that's actually my background.

5:08

I have a master's in art from CCA in San Francisco and thought, you know, since I was little, I'm going to be an artist and a creative person.

5:16

And you know, people often ask me like, are you still an artist?

5:20

And I'm like, yeah, totally. I just do it in a different way.

5:22

You know? So my life is very much about creativity and that's so much for me what breathwork is about and writing books and seeing clients like there's so much that requires you in the creative process to be present.

5:34

Right. And so what I love about breathwork is it just helps me get there a lot faster and helps me stay there when I'm in those processes.

5:41

But in terms of how I got there, I came to the breath through meditation when I was in an in treatment facility when I was young.

5:48

Cause I got a lot of, you know, wild days that just went really, really way too far.

5:53

And you know, some scary stuff happened.

5:56

And I had an opportunity to go to in treatment facility for drugs and alcohol counseling.

6:00

And it was in those kinds of early days that it was suggested to me to meditate.

6:04

And for anyone who's ever struggled with any kind of addiction to anything, it's like really hard to sit still, you know, and like quiet your mind.

6:12

I was like, what does that even mean? Like, I don't want to be with myself.

6:15

Like, there's a reason I'm drinking. There's a reason I'm doing all these things.

6:18

Like why would I want to be with myself?

6:20

And so that first counselor and sponsor I had were just like, just sit, set a timer for one minute and just see what happens.

6:27

And it was honestly like, so excruciating and also surprising.

6:32

It's almost like I didn't, I wasn't fully aware of how much I didn't want to be in my body until I just got like, kind of created the condition.

6:39

So got everything out of the way.

6:41

And then actually sat still and was like, oh wow, okay.

6:45

Like there's so much healing.

6:47

There's so much repair. There's so much work here for me to do.

6:50

And I started really slow and that's what I tell my clients.

6:53

I'm like, start with like two minutes a day.

6:56

Like, let's keep it simple. Let's keep it sustainable.

6:58

Something that you can build on, like you're building any muscle that you would build or any memory that you're trying to create.

7:04

Like if it's learning piano or working out or whatever it is, it's like, you've got to start small and then just build, you know, and I'm not saying that to make it seem simple because it's, it is simple and it's not, if that makes sense, you know, cause there's so many things that are like clamoring for our attention.

7:19

And so many ways that we get distracted, not just because of ourselves because of like, you're mentioning the culture that we live in.

7:25

It's so driven by consumerism and going really fast and productivity and all this kind of stuff.

7:32

And that's really against what we're trying to do.

7:34

Like we're actually trying to just be quiet and be with ourselves.

7:38

And that's really the biggest gift I've gotten from breathwork over the years is just learning how to like one breath at a time, just come into myself and feel myself and learn how to be present, ultimately, which isn't something that I ever, I did want it, but I didn't know how to get it, if that makes sense.

7:55

Right. So when you were first starting your breath work practice, w w did the facility introduce that to you or did your meditation app or community, like, how did you hear about working with your breath more?

8:08

So I learned about it. I was actually involved in AA and I had a sponsor who was really into meditation.

8:13

And so she had me do a breathing meditation.

8:15

And back then, this was quite a while ago, breath work.

8:18

Wasn't like what it is now, you know, it wasn't like as big of a thing, but meditation wise.

8:22

And so she was like, just count your breath.

8:24

And she was like, I want you to do a really simple breathing practice and just do it for a couple of minutes.

8:28

You're just going to inhale to the kind of four and you're going to exhale to the count of four.

8:32

She's like, that's literally all I want you to do.

8:34

And those first couple, like, especially the first couple of weeks, I wish I was like, that sounds so easy.

8:40

Like, I'm gonna like, totally like get an a on this, like, yes, let's go.

8:43

And literally within like three rounds, I was already like obsessing about something else.

8:47

I was like, freaking out about this. I was worried about this.

8:50

And I was like, oh my God. So this practice is really about like coming back and returning and returning and returning.

8:57

And over the years, I learned how to do that with much less judgment and much more kind of gentleness and slowness.

9:03

But she was the one who introduced me to really just following the breath.

9:07

And you know, some people I've heard this a lot in my practice are like, I've tried meditation and it's like so hard.

9:13

And what I love about breath work is it gives your mind from, to focus on.

9:17

So even if you do go off because you will, but then you come back, right.

9:21

It gives you an anchor.

9:23

Right? When I first started meditating and I don't do this often, I'm really trying to get back onto my spiritual, sustainable spiritual path because my partner even kind of pokes fun at me sometimes because I'll be like, oh my God, I just heard about like human design and I'm a generator and you're a manifesting generator.

9:40

And I'm like, all of these things, that's like, I'm gonna change my life because like I learned this new thing and I get so stoked on it, that it's all I think about.

9:48

And then the next week I fall off and then it's like, wow, I should really start meditating again.

9:52

I'll do it next week. And it's like, oh no, I've got to find something that is sustainable.

9:58

Which I, and I'm just right now, I'm just like on this journey within my journey, this is like a sub journey of how to get back on my journey.

10:06

And so I'm really interested in, in all these different modalities and specifically with your, I did a breath work class a couple years ago at some places in Los Angeles with a friend of mine.

10:19

First time I ever heard about breath work ever.

10:22

And we walked in and there was like a ton of people.

10:24

This was pre COVID ton of people. And we had like our own little pillow section and we S we laid on our back and then he led us through a bunch of different types of breathing.

10:33

And like, I thought I was gonna die the whole time, because like, I think maybe I had too much, too much oxygen, but it was like, I was just never breathe like that before.

10:43

But when you mentioned, like, there's so much stuff that came up for you and you clocked it as things that you needed to heal.

10:50

I remember in that moment, like, I think I dozed off or something.

10:54

Cause I was like relaxed. And then I woke up and I felt like everyone was laughing at me, but they weren't.

10:59

I think they were just laughing and that's what woke me up, but I thought they were laughing at me.

11:04

And that's so interesting that like, when you do allow yourself to like settle into those moments to be like, oh, what, where did that come from?

11:14

Like even though I just thought it was like, oh, they're just laughing at me.

11:17

But like, why did I think they're laughing at me?

11:18

What is this underneath, underneath, underneath all the way digging into what is that, that core belief that I think that like, people will laugh at me if I don't know what I'm doing or something like that.

11:31

Totally. Yeah. I really relate to that. I, I remember when I first started teaching breathwork and this is something that I always preface, like every class within the, to the students, just as a reminder, a, because it was something that I wish I had heard early on, but I'd say, Hey, Jessica, I'm going to teach you this practice.

11:46

You can't get it wrong. Like, don't worry.

11:48

Like you're not going to mess us up. Like it's going to be okay.

11:51

And everyone just the whole, you can feel whole room everyone's nervous system is like, okay, we can't mess this up.

11:56

Great. Like now I'm more interested in doing it. You know what I mean?

11:58

It's, I'm not worried about like, what is this going to look like?

12:01

And I'm like, everyone just close your eyes. Like, no one's looking at you.

12:03

Like, let's just go inside. But it's so important to just have those reminders of around, especially around these practices that we're doing.

12:10

If they're not something that we grew up with, which most of us didn't, so it's like, they can be really strange in the beginning too.

12:15

And they bring up, like you said, a lot of stuff.

12:17

And it's really about getting underneath all those layers down to the core of which you so eloquently expressed.

12:22

It's like, that's what we're really trying to get after.

12:25

Yeah. I think that also like really relaxing into that.

12:31

There is no wrong way to do it is really helpful with meditation as well.

12:35

Because I remember when people started talking to me about meditation, I, when I was 25, I'm always trying to be like ahead of the game, which I got to figure that out.

12:43

I remembered I was twenty-five everyone that was 30 or above.

12:46

I reached out to and I was like, what advice can you give your 25 year old self?

12:50

Because I want to take your notes and do them now.

12:52

So that when I'm 30, I like will have already done them.

12:56

But I remember everyone saying meditation and for so long, I would try it.

13:00

And I'm like, well, I'm just so bad at this. Like, I'm not, I'm not getting what I want out of it.

13:04

And I think because I'm such a goal oriented person, spirituality has been like, it's been interesting to navigate that because when I'm sitting down to do a meditation or sitting down to do some sort of like journaling session, it's like, well, if I don't have an aha moment, or if I don't like, feel like I'm floating in meditation, or if I like, think about too many things and I've, I've failed and that's not the case, like ju like exactly what you said, just taking the time to do it.

13:31

Like that is getting an a Totally.

13:34

And that's, you know, one of my own teachers used to say like 95% of it is just getting, getting to your mat, so to speak, right.

13:42

It's just getting to your journal, it's getting into the fridge to like, make yourself something healthy.

13:46

Like whatever that thing is, like, that's 90% of it.

13:48

And then the rest will just flow and it's, it doesn't really matter what it looks like ultimately.

13:53

And the thing is, it's like so much about building that muscle and building that consistency.

13:57

And that happens over time, you know?

13:59

And there's going to be so many moments where we're just like, where's my peak experience.

14:03

Like, why isn't it here yet? You know what I mean? And especially after you have a couple you're like, dude, every time I get into breathwork, I need to let go big.

14:09

It's gotta be like all the things. And I got to cry and scream and like have my peak experience and then like, just float it on the cloud, like you said.

14:15

And so often it's just so ordinary.

14:18

And I think for a lot of us, I can feel really disappointing, you know, because we're also so conditioned to have everything be like so big and like so massive.

14:26

And so when it is more subtle and it is more ordinary, there can be this process that we have to go through around like, oh, actually this is okay.

14:33

And this is the sustainable part. And this is actually what my nervous system needs.

14:37

And like, let's have a peak experience like once every couple of years.

14:40

And like, that's awesome. But like for the like long haul, like let's just slow down and like be gentle.

14:46

And those are things that are again, like, so counter culture, you know, because we feel like if it's not all the things and that's not right, and it's not, we're not going to heal or whatever it is, you know?

14:56

Right. I love the term peak experience. I've never heard that before.

14:59

Is that a breath work or spiritual terminology?

15:02

Or is that something you say It's,

15:05

where do I pull it from? They say it a lot in like, kind of, you know, like all the different kinds of spiritual modalities, but it's more geared towards like people who are really into athletics and people who are looking for like that.

15:18

Okay. When I've like done my run and I'm like, got this runners high it's like that kind of a thing.

15:22

And it's really when your endorphins are going. And that can happen a lot in the breathwork experience, especially more on like a breath work journey where you're really like breathing for, you know, an hour, hour and a half.

15:32

And then you can potentially have a peak experience there.

15:34

And, you know, one thing I've seen, especially when I was in LA for a long time with different communities, people doing like MDI and like all different kinds of stuff, just trying to get help and heal themselves like that.

15:45

They're looking for the peak experience, right? They're looking for the like aha moment or like the super high that's going to carry them on.

15:50

And oftentimes what I found within myself and through all the work that I've done, especially around trauma is that it's, it isn't sustainable.

15:58

There's nothing wrong with it. But when we're looking for sustainable change and especially those of us who have suffered from trauma, like we're actually looking for something that's much slower, it's much softer.

16:06

That's much more regulated because then our nervous systems and our bodies and brains can actually metabolize and digest it and change.

16:13

If that makes sense, because if we're always kind of shooting for the peak experience, it's really hard to metabolize that.

16:18

And it takes a long time. And sometimes those experiences, those experiences can actually kind of blow us out and it can be hard to recover from that.

16:29

That really brings up some stuff. I mean, my relationship with work is probably like my, my greatest addiction.

16:36

And that's, I've been really, really working on that for a few years in therapy.

16:40

And now I'm, I'm now just starting to uncover all of, you know, what societal standards and my parental conditioning and, you know, internalized capitalism and the patriarchy, all this stuff that is put on me, like armor, I'm now shedding off and going, oh, I I'm craving a much slower life, but I have kind of built my identity or my internal identity, at least off of how productive I can be, how many, you know, views I can get when I used to only make YouTube videos and like how, you know, not only are we digitally, I guess, valued if we've got higher followers, but also like the money coming in is higher.

17:21

So it's like, oh, if I just run this hamster wheel up until I can get more and have more than I will be happy.

17:30

And it's, I, I read this so many times, I'm like all these rich celebrities being like money, doesn't buy you happiness.

17:35

And it's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. But you have enough.

17:39

And that's like, well, what are, you know, you're rich.

17:40

And then, so now that I'm getting to the point and in no way, shape or form, am I rich, but I am comfortable enough to where I'm not in scarcity, like how I grew up.

17:50

So I go, okay, I worked my ass off to get this far, but now I'm looking back at my last 10 years.

17:56

And I'm so grateful for everything that I've done, but it's like, oh, I can not sustain this for 10 more years.

18:03

No way. Like my body is shutting down.

18:05

I'm having migraines and vertigo and, you know, losing my period for four months.

18:10

It's like, whoa, I need to slow down.

18:14

And I think a lot of people, especially in this, I guess in any creative field now online, it's like, you have to always be working.

18:23

And now that I'm saying that it's like, that's not a creative idea.

18:27

That's like something that people put in, like the corporate structure and, you know, people that my dad is an immigrant.

18:33

So coming here and having to work really hard in order to give his family security, it's like, oh, and he's also Asian.

18:40

So like Asian parents are very strict.

18:42

And so growing up, it was always like, do the most be the most have the most like it's going to be great.

18:47

And now that I'm older, I'm like, yeah, I don't really vibe with any of those thoughts anymore.

18:52

And so I'm, I'm untangling everything I thought.

18:56

And, and that's why I'm so excited that I've got your book here, like 25 simple practices.

19:00

I can do simple practices.

19:02

So I'm really excited to get into these and really like start that true connection again, because I guess I haven't really lived, been living for myself.

19:14

You know, Megan, I'm really appreciating what you're saying and also hearing a little bit more of your story in those layers and what I'm really getting is that you're sad, you're untangling on his beliefs.

19:25

And it sounds like you're also in a place where your, your values are shifting.

19:29

Right. And like what you thought were your values, whether that was from your parents or whether that was from our culture, which are so many values placed on us.

19:35

It's like, but what are my values?

19:37

And so often when we do that quiet work, it's like, it's pretty radical because it's often so different right.

19:43

Than our conditioning. It's like, oh, I actually value like going slower.

19:47

I actually value. And of course there's all this like neuroscience research and all kinds of stuff.

19:52

Now that points to like the more breaks we take, the more rest we get, actually the weird thing is more productive.

19:57

We are. And the more creative we are because we can go deep, you know, if we're just always kind of swimming in the shallows and if we're always hustling and if our bodies are like always breaking down, actually can't get to that really deep core work in our creativity that we want to get to either.

20:11

So it's like, and I'm not touting rest as it means to be more productive.

20:15

I think that's really problematic than just like, you know, in big corporations or like having me come in, they're like, okay, can you come teach everybody breathwork so that they can go and like work more and produce more like guys like, hi, that's not why I'm here.

20:27

I'm so happy to come teach everyone. And I do a ton of corporate work and I love all the corporations that I work with, but it's a bit of a mindset shift in the beginning.

20:34

And then they're like, oh yeah, actually we want everybody to be healthy and grounded and regulated and maybe take care of themselves.

20:39

And like, now we're onto something. Now we can use breath work to like help them get there.

20:43

It's not just to like, have them produce more for you, you know what I'm saying for your bottom line or whatever it is.

20:48

But that's also in the last 10 years has shifted so much in terms of, you know, corporate culture and a lot of the organizations that I work with.

20:55

Cause they're like, oh, actually now they're caring so much more about their employees.

20:58

They're like, we don't actually, we want our Burnet, our burnout rates to drop.

21:02

And you know, in 2019, the who basically made this huge announcement that burnout as now like a global health issue.

21:08

Like it's real. Yeah.

21:10

It's a real thing like around the world.

21:12

And so what are we going to do? And what are, how are we going to go inside of ourselves and decide like, what are we going to align with?

21:19

What are our values going to be? And then how do we make those like small incremental changes to like shift the direction, you know, not just for ourselves, but for the larger culture.

21:29

Yeah. I'm wondering how long, I mean, obviously burnout, the sensation has probably been everywhere forever, but I'm wondering like as a global species, I mean, I guess this is a grander question about your ideologies, but like, do you think that we're finally reaching a point where the world is taking things seriously and that we can make a change?

21:53

Or do you think that the world will continue spinning the way that it is and the people that decide to, you know, champion that ourselves, then they, they can do that for them and heal the multi-generational trauma and they can do that for their communities.

22:10

Or do you think I'm like, here's all the answers or here's all my questions answer all of them at one time, or do you think that like, it starts with us and then we lead by example and then the whole world will change.

22:24

Those are like, those are huge questions and they're really important questions.

22:28

You know, I've been thinking about this a lot as I've just finished up the manuscript for my second book.

22:34

And just thinking about the time that we're in and how many different crises are happening just constantly.

22:41

And not that there weren't be happening before, but they're just because of lockdown and because of everything else, it was just like, almost like everything just got louder and more intensified in my sense.

22:52

And I've heard a couple different people talk about this, but my own personal sense is that we're all in like a labor right now.

22:59

We're all in like a collective time of transition and we're transforming and some of us are going to get on board and we're going to do what you said.

23:09

We're going to like heal the trauma. And we're going to like show up for our communities.

23:12

We're going to like bring as many people with us as we can.

23:16

And other folks are just going to choose to stay in their patterning in their imprints and in that kind of unconsciousness and be left behind.

23:24

Honestly, that's what I think. I know it sounds brutal, but I just really think that's where we can see it.

23:30

Like there's so much polarity, there's so much shifting and there's a way that we're all changing and there's this alchemy that's happening.

23:36

And I think it's a really potent time.

23:39

And I think there's a lot of opportunity for really deep, necessary healing and reparations and so many different things across like, you know, every spectrum, but it's going to take the individual.

23:50

Like it has to start with us doing our work and doing those incremental changes and then being willing to sacrifice maybe our eat, you know, kind of put our ego aside or whatever it is to actually stick up for our environment, to stick up for the people who can't stick up for themselves to really be voices to all of those, all those pieces.

24:09

And you know, it's, it's also such a, like, it's easy to get overwhelmed right now and just feel like, oh my God, there's like a million things going on.

24:17

Like how do I even help? How do I show up?

24:20

And to me, it really comes back down to what we've been talking about.

24:23

And it's like, just pick something, you know what I mean? It's like, we all, I, I hear so many times people are complaining about like, I don't understand why the government doesn't do X about pollution.

24:31

And I don't know this. And it's like, what are you doing in your own life right now?

24:34

Like, what are you actually doing? What I mean, it's like, look at your life.

24:37

What are you doing about plastic? What are you doing with this?

24:39

It's like, let's just actually start making those changes and then we can go out and do the bigger thing.

24:44

And does that make sense? That it's like, it's so, so, so important because it's so easy to speculate and to point fingers and blame and be like, somebody else will take care of it.

24:52

Cause that's what most people have been thinking for so long, you know, didn't know nobody else has taken care of it.

24:57

And actually the younger generations are like pissed because they're like, Hey guys, like you're effing up the world for the rest of us, you know, on so many levels.

25:05

So like we all have to jump in and do something.

25:14

Yeah. Since it is the month of November, there is no better time to give thanks to all of the positives in our lives.

25:20

This month, I'm thankful for a meditation that I bought that HBO max subscription.

25:25

And of course for therapy, which brings us to better health.

25:28

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Hang on, adding therapy from home to my gratitude list.

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26:19

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26:29

Yeah. I mean, I that's, I am grateful for gen Z for like speaking up about so many things.

26:33

I think the millennial generation has done so much work around therapy and breaking those stigmas because my parents that what no, never ever don't say the T word at the dinner table.

26:46

And so I'm, I am like so grateful for that.

26:49

I'm I'm also wondering like the five day work we invented by Henry Ford.

26:55

Like We're still even getting started.

26:59

I'm like, why are we still doing that?

27:00

Like if we're, if we're really thinking about what works for us and slowing down and how good all this stuff is for us, what, like, we got to get, I guess we got to start this on the ground level.

27:11

And maybe when you go to the corporations, all the CEOs will be like, yeah, I liked that.

27:15

And then maybe if they try it, let go.

27:17

Yeah. Four, four day workweek sounds pretty nice.

27:21

I just read some headline. It might've been this morning.

27:24

It was, I can't remember if it was LinkedIn or like one of these tech companies.

27:28

And they were like, our is like all like all the, like top exact, like took a week off.

27:32

Like here's what happened. And it's like, great.

27:35

Like start there and like, you know, work your way through the entire organization.

27:38

But like, I'm starting to see more and more of these little clips.

27:41

And to me that's positive because it's like, okay, people are starting to take this seriously.

27:45

They're starting to get it. And again, it's like all the research shows like we have to take breaks, like, and not just the research, but like, let's just talk about our bodies.

27:54

Like from a biological perspective, it's like we are designed to get sleep.

27:58

So that's like a real thing. We're not supposed to not sleep.

28:00

You know what I mean?

28:02

And our bodies will, it's like we can push them only so far before they're going to try to get homeostasis, however they can.

28:09

And for a lot of us, myself included that has meant like I'm laid out flat in bed.

28:13

Cause that's how my body is going to get the rest in the Sabbath that it needs, you know, until we decide like, maybe there's another way to get that rest or that break.

28:22

You know what I mean? Without having to be flat out in the bed for a week.

28:27

Yeah. I, now that we're talking about work, I want to know if you saw a shift, once you started doing breath work and meditation practices on your, how, how you work like before, were you ever a workaholic or what was your work relationship like before breath work?

28:44

I was a workaholic before breath work.

28:47

I was a workaholic, probably five or six years into my breath work career.

28:55

Yeah. And it's something that I've struggled with for a lot of the reasons that you talked about too.

28:59

It's from, you know, my family of origin from the family system that I grew up in from the culture that I grew up in and from being a woman from being, you know, all the things it's like constantly having to prove myself be better than like be smarter than just all the things.

29:11

And, and it was the same thing with breathing and it wasn't so much about being better, but it was about, and I realized this like five years into my, when I had a private practice in LA and I was seeing so many clients a week and then I got to a point where I would see like four or five clients in the morning and then I would literally have to take a nap.

29:30

Like I could not even, I was non-functional and I'd be laid out in bed for like two hours and then I would get up and see like a few more clients.

29:36

And then at some point my body was just like, acute, you have to like tap out.

29:41

You know? So I emailed, I had a super long list of clients at that point.

29:44

I was just like, Hey, my body's talking to me.

29:46

I got to take a sabbatical. Like I'm going to just go in the rest and do some things that I need to do for myself.

29:51

And at that time I was so scared because part of my self image was like, I never slowed down.

29:57

I never asked, like, I just go and I've got all this energy.

30:00

And like, I don't want anyone to think I'm weak and that I can't handle it or that I'm not a good teacher.

30:06

You know, it's like all this crap. And I was like, and then to your point, it's like, wait, who's this talking like, who's voices is this like, whose beliefs are these?

30:14

And so I was scared to send that email and what was so amazing.

30:17

Every single person wrote me back and they were like, oh my God, thank you for giving me permission to do this.

30:22

I'm taking a sabbatical. Like I'm totally taking time off, like take as much time as you need, email us when you want to get back to work.

30:29

Like when you are ready to see clients again, since that first sabbatical, I took God six years ago, I just take them regularly.

30:36

Now that's just actually part of my practice.

30:38

It's built into my workflow. Like I just don't work for certain months out of the year.

30:41

I take time off and it's oh my God, Wait,

30:46

what does that look like in the calendar year?

30:48

Like, do you have specific months that you block off or do you do like one here and one there whenever you feel like it?

30:54

So for the first few years I had specific times that I blocked off and because I was mostly doing, I was doing corporate work, but my practice was mostly seeing individual clients and teaching classes.

31:03

And for most people travel around the holiday.

31:05

So I would typically take off like middle of November until middle of January.

31:09

So I'd always give myself those two months.

31:11

And then typically in the summer I would take like another six weeks off, depending now that I have a three-year-old and we live out in the country and our lives are completely different.

31:20

It's not as the schedule is a little bit different, but I do take around at least three months off a year.

31:26

It gives me different points just to it's so unnecessary.

31:30

Yeah. I love that so much because that's something I'm thinking about a lot in this kind of cocoon.

31:35

I would say I'm in a cocoon phase for sure. I always feel like I'm in a cocoon phase.

31:39

Can't even say the word cocoon, but it feels like we're always in transition, but I feel like a big or a shift in myself right now.

31:48

And it's a lot of it is regarding my work around my relationship to work.

31:53

And so I am, I'm trying to understand like, what is actually necessary and what is just like work, not even working to feel like I'm working, but like that all of my conditioning to be like, I just always need to be a hundred percent productive that the thought of not ever taking a break.

32:12

And if I was going to live my life like this for the rest of my life, I would like be on my death bed being like, that was like a wild ride, but I didn't really have fun sometimes.

32:22

And it's like, oh yeah, like lives are meant to be lived.

32:25

And, and I'm working on this project in the desert, lot of builds with my hands load, working with woods soil, the sun, I go to bed when, or I stopped working.

32:34

When the sunset happens, I wake up with the sun.

32:37

It's very healthy for me. And I feel like I'm connecting to kind of like my ancestral lineage.

32:43

Like, I feel like I'm like really doing what we were, what we are supposed to be doing before.

32:47

We decided that like, we need to work a lot or in this, in this way, obviously, like we were always like running from lions and making fires and building shelter.

32:57

But like, I feel like that's the type of work that I want to do.

33:00

And that's the fulfilling, satisfying work is to do that for myself.

33:06

That doesn't feel like work. And so that's, that's the goal that I'm going to, and imagining three months off it it's like, oh, I could just like renovate a house.

33:15

But for me, it's, that's not like a money thing and that's not a Instagram real thing.

33:20

It's just like a, this is so nourishing for me in so many ways that I feel like I'm living, like we're supposed to live like out in the sun, tending to crops, like doing all of those primal things.

33:34

It's, it's like super enticing to me right now.

33:37

So hearing that you take three months off, I'm like, okay, I'm going to do that.

33:41

Yeah. And to your point in too late, we moved, we live out by Yosemite national park now.

33:45

And I moved out here a year and a half ago and we're on 30 acres and just feel so fortunate to be it's like, while we haven't, there's parts of the land that we haven't even visited yet, because there are so much brush and so much stuff we can't even get over there.

34:01

But it's been talking about aligning with your circadian rhythm and like going to sleep with the sunset and waking up with the sunrise and just being out on the land.

34:10

And we've got this, like, it's like a 65 foot garden where we grew a lot of our own food this summer.

34:16

And, you know, getting our son out there, just naked, running around, like playing in the, in the dirt and just really like having that experience.

34:23

And then for me, it's like that to me, doesn't feel like, you know, starting the garden was a lot of work.

34:29

Like it was a lot of physical labor.

34:31

I was like shoveling mulch and doing all this kind of stuff.

34:34

But once we get everything set up, then it was really just that tending to and going out and connecting with the plants and seeing where they were and seeing if they were getting enough light and water and just those kinds of things.

34:44

And it's so like my nervous system is just like, yes, it's so regulating, it's so grounding.

34:50

And it really does feel like, oh, this has, this is what we're supposed to be doing.

34:54

You know, we don't have to have a huge garden. Like I have, it can be indoor houseplants.

34:58

Like there's some way for all of us to connect with that, that can really just regenerate ourselves in such a deep level.

35:05

I also think that tending to something, whether it be plants or pets has really helped take me out of my anxious brain.

35:12

When I first got my cats, I was just like, oh my God, I got to keep you alive.

35:15

And so I wasn't really thinking about any of my stresses.

35:17

It's like, okay, do you have enough food? Do you have water?

35:20

Do you have everything you need? And it is really, it helps a lot to feel selfless.

35:25

Like, I don't know if I've ever felt like that true sense of selflessness even in my relationships, because it was just, I mean, maybe they weren't aligned at the right time or whatnot, but yeah, it feels like if we're doing that for and pets and that's like the, the intro to doing that for ourselves, then that's amazing.

35:43

I think I'm finally getting to that part. Like I've had my cats for about four years now and it's like, okay, now I'm going to take care of myself because I haven't been doing that.

35:53

Yeah. And I love that. We use Sharon too. Like sometimes we need that entry point and it's like, you know, I've been doing a lot of like, really intense work with my, with my family and, you know, around setting boundaries.

36:06

And just a lot of like, we're just a lot of really hard stuff that it's not that I wasn't doing it before.

36:10

Like I was doing it to a degree, but then once we had had our baby, it was like, whoa, okay.

36:15

I just got initiated into like a whole nother level of like all the things.

36:19

And I was like, oh, actually now I have to take care of myself and this child in a totally different way.

36:24

And I also want to model to him something that I was never like, no one ever modeled to me.

36:28

So that's also really important, but it's almost like being taken care of him is like, up-leveled my own ability to take care of myself too, and just go so much deeper with it.

36:36

So I appreciate what you shared, what you shared about the animals and the plants.

36:40

Cause we just, sometimes we just need that entry point. Cause it can be so hard to do things for ourselves, you know?

36:45

Oh yeah. Yeah. I mean, especially when, when lives are dependent on your care, like plants, kids or pets, like you ask to learn the NES, the necessities of being a living, breathing organism.

36:57

And you're like, okay, wait, so am I, so let's give me, I'm going to take some of that or like take the idea of that and then apply it to myself.

37:09

If you've been following my Instagram recently, you know, I've been working on a design project in the desert and between the dry climate and the constant saw dust flying around my skin has been taking a bit of a hit, which is why we got to talk about Cureology.

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37:26

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38:44

Another thing that I was thinking, and my therapist and I had just talked about this earlier today, speaking about work and like the amount of time you have leftover in order to tend to yourself, your garden, your kids, your pets, your family, your relationships.

38:57

It's like if you listening are also or have experienced workaholism, if you put 98% of your time into work, you only have 2% left for everything else in your life.

39:11

That's your, self-care your relationships, your just general, day-to-day living friendships.

39:18

There's so much that you have to squeeze into 2% and that's why relationships fail.

39:24

That's why you, like, you become unhappy.

39:26

It's like, oh, you're putting all of your energy.

39:28

Cause like, we can't like make more energy.

39:31

We have energy, we can raise our energy.

39:33

We can't make more of it. So it's like, how am I going to use the energy that I have in the right ways?

39:40

I think there's also a, probably a graphic somewhere online in some like therapy, Instagram account.

39:46

That's like, if you only have like one jug of water and you have five cups, how are you going to fill all the cups without, you know, running out of water in that such, that was such a interesting and insightful thing for me to see because it's like, oh yeah, I think I'm limitless when it comes to working.

40:02

But then when it comes to like actually being human, I forget about what I need and how much I actually have in my resources.

40:10

Yeah. That's so true. And I appreciate the visual there too, because it's, you know, my friend Kelly talks about this in terms of like buckets and she's like, we have like our family bucket, our partnership bucket, our work bucket or whatever, like cat's bucket, you know, all the different things.

40:24

And then it's like, at the end of the day, I have all of our, we're putting all of our energy into our work bucket.

40:29

It's like, what do we have left over? And so I know the therapist she's written so many books, Esther Parral talks about this a lot too.

40:36

She's like so many of the couples that she works with, it's like, they're like not putting any effort or energy into their relationship.

40:42

And she was like, of course you guys are fighting. Like, of course there's infidelity.

40:45

It's like, if you basically show up and give your partner, like crumbs, you know, over and over and over, and you're not actually putting any real concerted effort into that relationship, like it's not just going to sustain itself.

40:57

Like it needs, love, it needs care. It needs attention.

40:59

Just like everything else. It needs energy, you know?

41:02

So that's, that's something that I've been working on a lot in my own life too, right now, just with writing the book and then parenting Solomon and all the things.

41:10

And then it's like, my really I'm like, oh, my relationship is with my partners.

41:13

Like not where it needs to be. So that means I need to shift some of the buckets around and like put more in that bucket because it's something that's important to me, you know?

41:22

And the way that I show that it's important to me is by giving it attention, you know what I mean?

41:26

It's not just enough to be like, you're so important to me, sweetie.

41:28

It's like, yeah. Okay. So like what, like, are you going to like show up and like, you know what I mean?

41:34

Like show don't tell, Right? Like, just show, like, I don't actually care what you say, just like do the thing.

41:40

Right. And it's like, oh, okay.

41:42

Right. So Yeah. I mean, that's what I'm, I'm also realizing that too.

41:45

And something that was like really illuminating is since I have been putting my work first for so long and like spent all of my twenties just working like 90 plus hours per week, trying to like build businesses and become like financially stable on my own.

42:01

It's like, oh, I'm so used to that. So every time I get into a relationship and there's any sort of, you know, friction and it's like, oh, you'd want me to work less boy by.

42:10

And it's like, oh no, no, no, no, no. Like now my partner is like, maybe you should work a little less because like, you're, you're not well, like you're always sick.

42:18

And I'm like, oh, okay. I'm going to listen to you just because like, I know you're worth it.

42:23

And you are holding a mirror to me.

42:25

And I am seeing that and okay.

42:28

And it is like, it's, it's not normal for me in order to put somebody like at the same level as my work.

42:35

And I know that sounds like so sad for people listening to be like, oh my God.

42:38

But like, I mean, that's just that, that's the case with me right now.

42:41

And I'm working through that, but it's, it's really interesting to go, okay, I'm going to work 30% less.

42:48

And exactly, like you said, like put that into that bucket because I guess for some reason I thought like once it was locked in, it was good.

42:56

And that's not the case Girl.

42:58

That's not the case. I know I'm just laughing because I'm like relatable.

43:02

Like, yeah.

43:03

I've I, in, in the past and past relationships have gone through that with so many different partners on, I remember my last partner before, you know, I got engaged to Nick.

43:14

It was just, that was like one of our, kind of, it wasn't like, it was a constant battle, but it was definitely like, Hey, I just like, like give me some more attention.

43:22

And I'm like, well just go entertain yourself.

43:24

Like I have stuff to do. You know what I mean?

43:26

And now I'm like, oh my God. I said that like, oh, it's just like, and not, I don't have any shame about it.

43:31

It's like, that's where I was like, that's just where I was in my life.

43:34

And I was like, you, I was just like, you know, in LA I was hustling.

43:38

I was like, starting my business. I was building all these things.

43:40

I was doing clients. I was like supporting myself and making money and being like, okay, I'm setting myself up.

43:45

And I just, honestly, at the time, wasn't really in the space mentally or emotionally to like give that to that person.

43:52

And I think that's what I realized too. I was like, oh, actually I just, I'm not ready to like, open that up for you.

43:58

So I'm just going to keep working company now with my current partner.

44:00

It's like, no, no. Sometimes it just it's like, we have to go through what we have to go through, you know?

44:05

And at some point we get we're ready and then we're like, okay, like I love you.

44:08

And I see that you want the best for me. And I've done.

44:10

I've actually done this pattern many times before.

44:12

So maybe now we're going to switch it up. You know, That's

44:15

exactly. Oh my God. That's like the motto of my life right now.

44:18

Like I, exactly what I said earlier is like, I've lived 10 years overworking myself into actual deficit, like health deficit that I'm like, okay, well, what else is there?

44:31

Like, what are the other options? Like I've already explored that like far down the road now.

44:36

Like let's, let's take a detour because I understand what that would be like if I continue, what would it be like if I do something new and I think that's like my, I do feel so energized.

44:47

Even thinking about like moving to the desert.

44:49

And I'm wondering like you move to, you said not mine.

44:52

Yeah. Where's it a Yosemite national park. Yeah. We're up in Northern California.

44:57

Did you move there in order to find a bit more of a slow life or was it something else?

45:05

That was the main, that was the main thing. Like we had, I lived in LA for a long time and then I moved up to the bay area to be with my partner.

45:11

And then we had our son and then once, and we had our we're already, but even before I was pregnant, like I moved up there and I, I kind of knew and we both knew it was temporary.

45:20

We wanted to live somewhere smaller, but neither one of us were ready, especially me.

45:24

I guess my partner I'll say he was ready, but I wasn't quite ready.

45:27

So I needed like another year or two in the city before I was like, okay, fine.

45:31

I'm willing to like go to the country now.

45:33

And then yeah, we had our son and then I was like, I just was looking around and I'm like, I want something different for him.

45:38

I want him to just be running around barefoot.

45:40

I want him to be somewhere where he can just go outside and like have free rein to just like go around wherever and not always have to be like me, like hypervigilant.

45:50

Like, is he okay? Is he going to run onto the street?

45:52

Is he gonna get hit by a car? Just all the stuff you have to navigate in a city.

45:55

And, you know, we looked at a lot of different places we spent about a year, like traveling kind of all over Northern California and going to different spots just to see like what would feel good.

46:04

And also what we could afford, because up there it's so like crazy expensive that we were like, oh, okay.

46:11

We had really didn't. I was like, people apparently want to live in small towns.

46:15

That's the thing.

46:15

So we found a place that was just, you know, within our budget.

46:19

That made sense. So we all, you know, cause I also didn't want to move and then feel like, okay, we like overspent and now I'm having a hustle to like live in the country.

46:27

Like that is like totally makes no sense, you know?

46:31

So. Oh, wow. Yeah. So just making those kinds of smart financial decisions, just to set us up for the light that we wanted and yeah, it's been really amazing out here and it's definitely, like I said, just been sinking up to the rhythm, been sinking up more to the seasons, to the light, to just the quiet.

46:49

It's so quiet out here at night.

46:51

Like, I don't hear anything except for the wind, maybe, you know, like the occasional neighbor, like shooting off a gun or something.

46:59

But other than that, it's like, it's like nothing.

47:02

It's just, it's really wild. And it's been so restorative for my nervous system.

47:07

And I honestly like, I mean, I've lived in very major metropolitan areas my whole life.

47:11

And I had a little bit of a fear around like, okay, so this might be cool for like two months and then I'm gonna like completely lose my shit and be bored.

47:19

Or like, what if I have to face all these weird parts of myself and it gets really intense.

47:24

And you don't, I mean, it's just, there's a lot that can come up and all that has come up and I've been totally okay.

47:30

And have the resources and tools to just navigate that.

47:33

But honestly, it's been such a, like a literal breath of fresh air just to be out here and just be in a place where there's more trees than there are humans.

47:41

It's just really nice. Yeah.

47:43

Ah, that sounds so idyllic.

47:46

So that's interesting that you said that like, I guess maybe in a way that the novelty wore off after a few months, and then did you have to like reconnect to, I guess I'm, I don't want to put words in your mouth, but when you said like, am I going to get bored with this?

48:00

Did you end up getting bored with the country at first?

48:04

No, I didn't. And that was my biggest fear. Cause I was like, I'm so used to living in places that are so stimulating, you know, it's like growing up in Atlanta and then living in LA and living in San Francisco and you know, just all these places, it's like, there's so much stimulation constantly.

48:16

And so I was like, what is it going to be like in a place where there's like, it's like, you just sit there for an hour and like, maybe you see a deer walk by like, am I going to be okay?

48:26

Like I can, you know, and I kinda it's, I equate it to like many years ago, I went on my first silent meditation retreat and it's something that I'd wanted to do for a long time, but I was terrified.

48:36

I was like, oh my God, I can't like talk to anybody for a week.

48:38

Like, like that seems like really scary.

48:41

And like, anyway, so I finally went and had this like really profound experience and it was so amazing on like day three, first two days were like, hell, it was horrible.

48:49

And then day three, everything shifted. And it was like, oh, the skies parted.

48:53

And I was like, I'm so in my body and this is so cool.

48:55

And that's kind of what happened out here. I got out here in the first, honestly the first few months, it was just such a relief to be out of the city that I was like, oh, this is so nice.

49:03

And then things got a little bit challenging, but then they settled down and I've because there's this really cool phenomenon.

49:10

And it's called entrainment. Do you know about entrain now?

49:13

It's really cool. So it's where our bodies, essentially our bodies sync up to an environment.

49:17

So they, they sync up to the pace of the environment, just like our body sync up to a song, right?

49:22

So you can listen to a song and you can feel a certain way.

49:24

If you listen to a fast song, you're going to like go a little bit faster.

49:27

If you listen to a slow song, your body's going to match up to that.

49:30

It will be in trained to go slower.

49:31

So when we live in really fast paced environments, our bodies are in trained to match that pace and a part of what was happening to me in LA with burnout as it, actually, my body wanted to go a different pace and it was coming up against the pace of the city that wasn't quite working for me anymore.

49:47

So long story short, now that my body has like synced up and has entrained to the rhythm of the place that I'm in.

49:53

It just feels natural to me now.

49:56

Wow. Yeah. That makes so much sense.

49:58

I was just writing in my journal, something very similar that I didn't know that terminology yet, but it was explaining that exact same thing.

50:05

Like I'm so sensitive to energy around me, especially of a city or an environment.

50:10

And so I was like, yeah, I'm just, I'm two different people.

50:12

Like I've got my LA personality and my desert personality.

50:15

And now that I hear that, I'm like, oh, that makes so much sense that I'm being entrained by the place.

50:20

Cause it really is. And it's interesting because I moved here for a dream, a specific dream.

50:26

I was a professional before I became a designer and it's like, okay, that was a whole 10 years of my life.

50:31

And I've, I've come into different avenues. And now that I look at my life, I'm like, oh, that's not in alignment anymore.

50:36

Like that's not actually helping the life that I want to live.

50:40

And so that's exciting to hear your journey and like going to a smaller city because I was not even a city of a smaller town because that's exactly what I'm toying with.

50:50

And every single day I'm on Zillow and I'm like, okay, what houses are coming up now?

50:54

Cause it's just like, I can tell that that's what my body's craving.

50:59

Yeah. Now that I'm listening to it.

51:01

Yeah, totally, totally. I mean, you're, you are so intuitive and now that you're listening, it's like that, that information and those signals what I found from my own experience, the more I listen, the easier it is to hear and almost like the louder I get.

51:14

It's like, I can't ignore it anymore. You know?

51:16

And I think that's one of, you know, just to circle back briefly to breathing.

51:20

That's one of the things that I've always appreciated about breathing.

51:23

And one of the reasons I continue to do it is because it just gives me access to these parts of myself and gives me access to that deeper listening in that deeper presence.

51:31

And so now it's like, it's like, I can know I need to do something.

51:34

And at some point it's like, all right, it's like, it'd be a, it almost becomes too painful to not do it.

51:39

And so you're like, okay, I gotta just do it.

51:41

You know, I got to just take the risk or say the thing or whatever it is that he needed to do.

51:44

And then everything shifts again.

51:46

It's like caring for yourself, makes caring for yourself easier.

51:50

Cause once you start doing it, then it'll let you know what it needs.

51:53

You go, okay, body I'll give you that.

51:56

Yes. And I, you know, I loved what you said earlier, Megan too.

51:58

And I'm trying to remember your exact phrasing. So forgive me if I'm, you know, if I'm not getting it exactly right.

52:04

But when you're, when we are talking about relationships and we're kind of going, oh, I know what that is, but like what could, like, I've already experienced all that.

52:10

I know those patterns, but like what could this look like?

52:13

What's a different option. Like I haven't explored this route before.

52:16

Like I haven't explored putting more of my energy into my relationship bucket.

52:20

Like, let's give that a shot, you know?

52:22

And there's something that's so beautiful about that openness and that curiosity, you know, they can come to, when we do this work, it's just like, oh, look at that.

52:30

Be like, huh. Like what would it be like to live in the desert?

52:33

And like, let's just go explore that and see, you know, Oh

52:37

my God. I just, I think that discovering things about yourself as like that's my new high, like it was worked before.

52:44

And I think this one's a much healthier high, but I wanted to speak a little bit about your actual practice and your methodology because it has a few elements that I'm not familiar with.

52:55

So I think that my audience would be really interested in it as well.

52:59

So can you explain a little bit more about like your specific methodology of breathwork?

53:05

Yeah, totally. So my method of breath, my breath, that ology can even talk my method of inquiry.

53:12

I know it is here we go. Ding, ding, my method of breath work and the is a couple of different parts.

53:21

So it's first and foremost is trauma informed, which is really important to me as a trauma survivor and also important, I think just in this day and age to be trauma aware and trauma sensitive, like the reality is that most of us, I'm not going to say all cause you can't ever say that, but most of us have some kind of trauma that we're grappling with in there's collective trauma.

53:40

There's trauma. That's literally on the land that we live on.

53:43

I mean, there's just so much that is happening.

53:45

That's embedded in our nervous systems. That's part of our psyches that needs to be addressed.

53:49

And you know, when I first started working with breath work, I had no trauma training and I was teaching classes and I was getting clients that were having these like really huge experiences where they were discovering parts of themselves and like having memories from their past come up that they were like, oh my God, like I've, my body has blocked this out for a good reason to keep me safe.

54:10

But like now it's all flooding back and you know, as a practitioner I'm kind of going, oh my God, like, okay, how can I help you?

54:16

Like I need to go get, I need to get some more help so that I can know what to do.

54:20

And so I've been for the last six years, really heavily studying trauma and somatic trauma and how trauma works in the body and like how to help heal and repair it.

54:29

So that's a big aspect of my breath work.

54:31

And another big aspect is there, you know, there's so many different ways that people practice breath, but mine is really, you know, client focused in the sense of like, what does the client need when I see them?

54:41

You know, there's a way that, you know, yoga or breath work or even meditation can kind of be put upon us.

54:47

It's like, okay, you do this practice now.

54:48

But then I actually want to sit with my client and be like, where are you at right now?

54:52

What's happening in your life? Like what's going to be the most supportive for you because the reality is not sure we can say that, you know, on a general scale, like if you're doing an extended exhale, like, so you're inhaling through your nose, you're exhaling through your nose and your exhale is a little bit longer than your inhale.

55:07

We know science shows that that that's regulating for the nervous system.

55:11

So that is going to help our nervous system regulate.

55:13

It's going to help bring us more into a parasympathetic state.

55:16

That's really helpful.

55:17

90% of my clients. That's what they need.

55:20

Like, they're more on the like anxious stress, like dealing with life, trauma, burnout, like that kind of picture.

55:25

Like they need like self-regulation tools.

55:27

It's like, how can I get in my body?

55:29

How can I feel safer in my body? How can I stay in my body for longer periods of time?

55:34

And how can I access the part of myself?

55:36

That's more the word I use as adults.

55:38

So how do I stay more in my adult self versus getting always triggered and activated into a younger part of myself because you know, through this work, we see it's coming from those younger places who just need our attention.

55:49

That's all they really asking for, but that can create a lot of complications in our life versus coming from like our center and from our adult place.

55:56

And so a lot of the breath work that I do is really working around that too.

55:59

It's like, how do we live more from our integrity and from our values.

56:04

And so it's about exploring our values through our body, through our breath and getting those values centered in our core, in our nervous system.

56:12

So that we can have that north star, that isn't coming from our culture, that isn't coming from, like something that was embedded in us or imprinted on us from our lineage, but something that's coming directly from us.

56:23

You know, the other piece I want to mention too, just touching briefly on, you know, trauma and ancestral trauma is so often in trauma talk, we're really focusing on like all the negative aspects of the trauma that came through.

56:36

And it's really important. And I love that a lot of people are now talking about like post-traumatic growth, because it's really important to recognize the resilience that we have.

56:45

It's like they made it, you know, like they made it and we are making it too, you know?

56:52

And it's so important to name that it's so important to like tap into that resilience.

56:57

And, you know, I have a I'm Jewish have like a really like complicated, you know, Jewish lineage.

57:04

And it's just, it's amazing to like, think about my ancestors and to think about what they endured and to also connect with like the gratitude of like the perseverance and the strength and their resilience.

57:15

And so I think for all of us, that's something to connect to and really focus on.

57:19

And so a lot of the breath work and a lot of my methodology is really focused on resilience building and like, how do we build a resilience within our own systems, but then also connect that outward so that we have support because we can be supported by the resilience of our ancestors.

57:32

We can be supported by the resilience of the earth.

57:35

And so how do we make those connections and how do we foster those relationships?

57:41

Wow, that was so well said. It's like, you've said it before.

57:44

It was, I was like these moments sometimes where I'm talking and I'm present and I know what I'm saying, but then I'm like are sometimes when I'm like in it, like it's a little bit of a download.

57:57

No, I mean, that was so beautiful. I'm I'm if anyone was on the fence about breath work, I think they have just signed.

58:05

They're like, mm.

58:07

Yeah. I'm obviously gonna link all of your stuff in the show notes in order for people to find you and more of your work, but you just said you finished your manuscript.

58:15

I have your first book in my hand now how to breathe.

58:18

So they can find that when is the second book coming out, if you haven't.

58:24

So our pub date is October 20, 22.

58:27

So the publishing industry is a little slower sometimes.

58:32

And because of COVID things are just going a little bit slower now.

58:34

So we're looking at a year out, but first manuscript is in, we're going to be editing for a few months.

58:40

And then actually a dear friend of mine is designing the book.

58:43

So it's just like how to breathe. That's like heavily designed and it's going to be really beautiful and it's going to be a big, I can't, I'm not allowed to say that title, but I will say that it is going to be an antidote to burnout.

58:55

And it's basically, it's like the companion book to how to breathe.

58:59

So for those of you who have how to breathe for those of you who are like getting into breath work and doing the practices in there, this is like the next phase.

59:06

So it's the next step on the journey.

59:09

I am so excited. And now that you mentioned the design, I will say that like the first thing that I saw or what I opened the book, it was like, wow, this is a beautiful book.

59:17

And then I scroll, scroll through the pages.

59:20

Well, I'm a millennial.

59:22

I was like thumbing through the pages, like the texture of the paper choice that you have was amazing.

59:29

And like anything that was printed on it, it was just so high quality, the font choices.

59:33

So, I mean, you can tell you've got an artistic background and so everything about it is beautiful.

59:38

The content, the visuals of it, I'm excited for anyone else to grab it.

59:42

And we can do breath work together because this is very new to me, but I'm very, very excited to see where it takes me.

59:49

I'm so excited to see where it takes you to, and you know, my encouragement for the book for you and for those who are going to crab, it is to really use it in a way that's intuitive.

59:59

So I typically it's in three sections.

1:00:01

So the first two sections are kind of nuts and bolts pieces like autonomic nervous system, how to get in touch with that, learning about your diaphragm.

1:00:08

Second chapter is really like, like, how do like how, you know what I mean?

1:00:11

Like, how do we set up a practice? How do we stay consistent?

1:00:14

What does that look like? So it's getting into those like more pragmatic pieces.

1:00:17

And then the end of the book is all the different practices and the table of contents.

1:00:21

It's an alphabetical order you can read through.

1:00:24

So there's a practice for anger. There's a practice for boundaries.

1:00:26

There's a practice for intimacy.

1:00:28

There's a practice for resilience and you can just pick and choose based on what your needs are in that moment.

1:00:33

And all their practices are meant to be short, accessible, repeatable, really, that's really a thing it's like, just do it consistently, you know, as best you can.

1:00:43

And I typically suggest whatever time of day you can do right back in like way back when, before I had a child.

1:00:51

And when I was just kind of solo in LA, I would wake up at four in the morning.

1:00:54

Cause that's when all the yogis get up and like do their meditation in the dark.

1:00:58

And that's like, when a lot of, you know, like Michelle Obama, that's when like big people get up and like do their like magic work.

1:01:03

So I was like, okay, it's good enough for her. Like, I can get up at 4:00 AM to yes.

1:01:07

You know, get me into that. And I do my dry brushing and I do all this chanting and like all this kinda stuff, like I'd get into it, but now life is different.

1:01:14

So it's just about fitting it in where you can and just trying to have, just trying to make it a daily habit.

1:01:20

That's really the main thing. And I really like that you write like how long it will take, because for me I'm always like, okay, I live by my calendar.

1:01:27

And so when you're like, okay, this is a city meditate meditation five minutes ago.

1:01:30

Oh God. It like, I can move that.

1:01:34

Totally. Yeah. And that was really the plan because I know, and I was thinking about, you know, when I was writing the book, I was thinking a lot about what I was going through when I started.

1:01:41

And also all the clients that I work with. And they're like, but how long is this going to take?

1:01:44

Like, how can I fit this in?

1:01:46

Like, how can I it's like, okay, let's just make this like as easy as possible again, because those are the habits that they're the easiest to recreate and the easiest to get to stick and actually become integrated into our lives.

1:01:56

It's like, it's gotta be simple to start with.

1:01:58

Like, you don't need to breathe for an hour.

1:02:00

You don't even need to breathe for 20 minutes. Like start with just a couple minutes and build from there.

1:02:06

Yeah. I'm so excited. I mean, after we get done recording, I most likely will do one and that will be so exciting to me.

1:02:11

I'm so energized by talking to you.

1:02:13

Thank you so much for your time.

1:02:15

I am very excited for people to hear this episode.

1:02:19

Thank so much for having me, Megan. I feel like we went on such an amazing journey together and I just loved everything We

1:02:23

had talked about and I'm really grateful.

1:02:25

So thank you.

1:02:29

Yay. Round of applause for everyone, that was beautiful.

1:02:33

That was a hit bam podcast. This is a head gum podcast. After traveling the world for well over a year, there are a couple of traveling the world for well over a year, there are a couple of lessons I will never forget. One, comfort is key. No explanation needed to water is your friend and three use in a way No explanation needed. Two, water is your friend. And three, use an Away suitcase. If you aren't familiar by now, Away creates thoughtful products for every traveler and every kind of trip. All of Away's suitcases are designed to last lifetime. And as a traveler who needs to feel prepared for my trips, I love that they have an interior organization system that includes a built-in compression pad and a laundry as a traveler who needs to feel prepared for my trips, I love that they have an interior organization system that includes a built in compression pad and a laundry bag. 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So me, not before I mention that all suitcases have a TSA approved combination lock to keep all of your belongings safe. This is my dream suit case come to life. Batoon if it doesn't work for you, have no fear. Away has an a hundred day trial on everything they make and they offer free shipping and returns. So if you're ready to go on the trip of your dreams, Listen up. Start your one hundred day trial and shop the entire Away line up of travel essentials, including their best selling suitcases away. travel.com/just a tip that's away, travel.com/just a tip travel dot com slash just a tip. That's o a travel dot com slash just a tip. This is a snow. Yeah. to another episode a tip It was the podcast that was equally about its tangents as it is about its tips. It's still about tangents and tips, but now we are really, really digging into another episode of my spiritual journey. This time we have this time we have Breathwork teacher and author Ashleys Neese. Nissan. We talk so much about figuring out what we need in our lives individually and how slowing down in introducing breath work will help us get We talk so much about figuring out what we need in our lives individually and how slowing down and introducing breath work will help us at there. I am not gonna say anything else because there's so many gems in this episode that I'm just going to play it. Enjoy. enjoy. Oh, Okay. Before we get in, I just wanted to, like, ask how you were and thank you for coming on. Uh-huh. Thank you so much for having me, Megan. I am doing well. It's been a busy time. We have a three year old and there's, like, both my partner and I work, you know, and I've just wrapped yesterday. actually handed in the manuscript for my second book. So this is, like, perfect. perfect. I know. I was, like, oh, I'm, like, so, like, relax now. So this is great. Batoon, I've been doing really well. Yeah. So first of all, thank you so much for sending your book. book. That was so was so nice. nice. Of course. Of course. And the little note in it, that's best when people write notes in the books, that's like not a lot of people do that anymore. Yeah. I know. I feel like so many people especially like bigger authors who are signing like, you know, thousands and thousands of copies. It's just like, you get like a squiggle, you know, but this was really nice to just be like, oh, I can write a little note. So I'm so glad that you got it. Yay. It's it's coming at also the perfect time because I'm spending so much time in the desert and I've never felt so connected to myself and the earth and I really really need this right now and so I'm so happy that we're speaking and it's kinda like the the planets are aligning because I've been going through, like, health issues because I've been so stressed and so overworked overworked. And so constantly burned out that my body's like yelling at so constantly burned out that my body's like yelling at me. And so I'm now trying to slow down. And I and it keeps coming back to me. People are like, do you do breath work? And do you do this? I'm like, I don't think I've ever, like, taken a breath in my life, to be completely honest with you. So I'm so excited for everyone listening to hear your story because I think so many of us and artists in general, we should be connected to ourselves and our Breathwork, but now with you know, capitalism running the art industry. It's like, well, how do we make money also make art? It's it's very difficult. difficult. And so I'm really excited to talk about getting back to the And so I'm I'm really excited to talk about getting back to the And I guess we can start with your journey. Like, what was the beginning of your Breathwork journey? Well, I came to Breathwork kind of unconventionally and, you know, it's interesting you're talking about art and design because that's actually my background. background. I have a master's in art from CCA in San Francisco and thought, you know, since I was little, I'm going to be an artist and a creative I have a master's in art from CCA in San Francisco and thought, you know, since I was little, I'm gonna be an artist and a creative person and, you know, people often ask me like, are you still an artist? And artist? And I'm like, yeah, like, yeah. Totally. I totally. I just do it in a different do it in different way. way. You know? So my life is very much about creativity and not so much for me what breathwork is about in writing books and seeing like, there's so much that requires you in the creative process to be present Right? And so what I love about breath work is it just helps me get there a lot faster and helps me stay there when I'm in those processes. But in terms of how I got there, I came to the breathwork through meditation when was in an in treatment facility when I was young because I got a lot of, you know, wild days that just went really, really way too far. Mhmm. And, you know, some scary stuff happened, and I had an opportunity to go Entrainment facility for drugs and alcohol counseling. And it was in those kind of early days that it was suggested to me to meditate. And for anyone who's ever struggle with any kind of addiction to anything. It's like really hard to sit still, you know, and like quiet your mind. I was like, what does that even mean? Like, I don't wanna be with myself. Like, there's a reason I'm drinking. There's a reason I'm doing all these things. Like, why would I wanna be with myself? And so that first counselor and sponsor I had like, just sit. Set a timer for one minute and just see what happens. happens. And it was honestly like, so excruciating and also it was honestly like so excruciating and also surprising. It's almost like I didn't I wasn't fully aware of how much I didn't wanna be in my body until I just got, like, kind of, created the conditions, so got everything out of the way. And then actually sat still and was like, oh, wow. Okay. okay. Like there's so much there's so much healing, there's so much repair, there's so much work here for me to do. Mhmm. And I started really slow, and that's what I tell my clients. I'm like, start with like two minutes a like, start with, like, two minutes a day. Like, let's keep it simple. simple. Let's keep it keep it sustainable. Something that you can build on. Like, you're building any muscle that you would build or any memory that you're trying to create. Like, if it's learning piano or working out or whatever it is. It's like, you gotta start small. Mhmm. And build, you know. And I'm not saying that to make it seem simple because it's It is simple and it's not, if that makes Neese, you know, because there are so many things that are, like, clamoring for our attention and so many ways that we get distracted, not just because of ourselves, because of like you're mentioning, the culture that we live in in. It's so driven by consumerism and going really fast and productivity and all this kind of so driven by, you know, consumerism and going really fast and productivity and all this kind of stuff. And that's really against what we're trying to do. Like, we're actually trying to just be quiet and be with ourselves. And that's really the biggest gift I've gotten from over years learning how to, like, one breath at a time, just come into myself and feel myself and learn how to be present ultimately, which isn't something that I ever I did want it, but I didn't know how to get it if that makes sense. Right. So when you were first starting your breath work practice did the facility introduce that to you or did your meditation app or community? Like, how did you hear about working with your breath more? So I learned about it. I was actually involved in AA and I had a sponsor who was really into meditation. And so she had me do a breathing meditation. And back then, this was quite while ago, breath work wasn't like what it is now. You know, it wasn't like as big of a thing, but meditation wise. And so she was like, just count your she's like, I want you to do a really simple breathing practice do it for a couple minutes. just gonna inhale to the kind of four, and you're gonna exhale to the kind of four. She's that's literally all I want you to do. And those first couple like, especially the first couple weeks, I wish I was like, that sounds so easy. Like, I'm gonna, like, totally, like, get an a on this. Like, Yes. Let's go. go. And literally within like three rounds, I was already like obsessing about something within, like, free rounds, I was already, like, obsessing about something else. I was, like, freaking out about this. was worried about this. And I was, like, Oh my god. So this practice is really about, like, coming back and returning and returning and returning and Over the years, I learned how to do that with much less judgment and much more kind of gentleness and slowness, but she was the one who introduced me to really just following the And You know, some people I've heard this a lot in my practice or, like, I've tried meditation. It's like so hard. And what I love about breath work is it gives your mind for me to focus on. So even if you do go off because you will, but then you come back. Right? It gives you an anchor. Right. When I first started meditating and I don't do this often. I'm really trying to get back onto my spiritual, sustainable spiritual path because my partner even kind of pokes fun at me sometimes because I'll be like, oh my god, I just heard about like human design and I'm a generator and you're a manifesting generator and I'm like, all these things and it's like I'm gonna change my life because like I learned this new thing and I get so stoked on it that it's all I think about about. And then the next week I fall off and then it's like, wow, I should really start meditating then the next week I fall off. And then it's wow, I should really start meditating again. I'll do it next week. And it's like, oh, no. I've got to find something that is sustainable, which I and I'm just right now, I'm just, like, on this journey, within my journey. This is like a sub journey of how to get back on my journey. journey. And so I'm really interested in, in all these different modalities and specifically with your, I did a breath work class a couple years ago at some places in Los Angeles with a friend of so I'm really interested in in all these different modalities. And specifically, with your I did a breathwork class a couple years ago, at some place in Los Angeles with a friend of mine, first time I ever heard about breath work ever. And we walked in and there was, like, a ton of people. This is pre COVID. A ton of people, and we had, like, our own little pillow section, and we we laid on her back, and then he led us through bunch of different types of breathing and, like, I thought I was gonna die the whole time because, like, I think maybe I had too much too much oxygen. Batoon was like, it I've just never like that before. But when you mentioned, like, there's so much stuff that came up for you and you clocked it as things that you needed to heal. I remember in that moment, like, I think I dosed off or something because I was, like, relaxed. And then I woke up and I felt like everyone was laughing at me. But they weren't I think they were just laughing and that's what woke me up, but I thought they were laughing at me. And that's so interesting that, like, when you do allow yourself to, like, settle into those moments, to be like, oh, what where did that come from? from? Like even though I just thought it was like, oh, they're just laughing at even though I just thought it was like, oh, they were just laughing at me. me. But like, why did I think they're laughing at like, why did I think they were laughing at me? What is this? Underneath underneath underneath, all the way digging into what is that that core belief that think that, like, people will laugh at me if I don't know what I'm doing or something like that. Totally. Yeah. I really relate to that. I I remember when I first started teaching breath work in the system and then I always preface, like, every class with and say to the students just as a reminder, a, because it was something that I wish I had heard early on. But I'd say, hey, just say, I'm gonna teach you this practice. practice. You can't get it can't get it wrong. Like, don't worry. Like, you're not gonna mess this up. Like, you're it's it's gonna be okay. And everyone because the whole you can feel the whole room. Everyone's nervous system is like, Okay. If you can't mess this up, great. Like, now I'm more interested in doing it. You know what I mean? Because I'm not worried about, like, what is this gonna look like? And like? And I'm like, everyone just close your like, everyone just closed your eyes. Like, no one's looking at you. Like, once just go inside, but it's so important to just have those reminders around especially around Neese practices that we're doing if they're not something that we grew up with, which most of us didn't. So it's like, they can be really strange in the beginning and they bring up like you said a lot of stuff and it's really about getting underneath all those layers down to the core which you so eloquently expressed. It's like, that's what we're really trying to get after. Yeah. I think that also, like, really relaxing into that there is no wrong way to do it is really helpful with meditation as well because I remember when people started talking to me about meditation, when was twenty five, I'm always trying to be like ahead of the game, which I gotta figure that out. I remember when I was twenty five, everyone that was thirty or above, I reached out to, and I was like, what advice can you give your twenty five year old self? Because I wanna take your notes and do them now. So that when I'm thirty, I'm like, well, have already done them. Batoon remember everyone saying meditation and for so long, I would try it and I'm like, well, I'm just so bad at this. Like, I'm not I'm not getting what I want out of it and I think because I'm such a goal oriented person, spirituality has been like, it's been interesting to navigate that because when I'm sitting down, to do a meditation or sitting down to do some sort of like journaling session. It's like, well, if I don't have a uh-huh moment or if I don't like feel like I'm floating in meditation or if I like think about too many things and I've I've failed. And that's not the case. Like like exactly what you said, just taking the time to do it, like, that is getting an a. Totally. And that's, you know, one of my own teachers used to say, like, ninety five percent of it is just getting getting to your mat so to speak. Right? It's just getting to your journal. It's getting into the fridge to, like, make yourself something healthy. Like, whatever that thing is. Like, that's ninety percent of it. And then the rest will just flow and it's doesn't really matter what it looks like ultimately. And the thing is it's like so much about building that muscle and building that consistency consistency. And that happens over time, you that happens over time. Know, and there's gonna be so many moments where we're just like, where's my peak experience? Like, why isn't it here yet? You know what mean? Especially after you have a couple, you're like, to it every time I get into Breathwork, I need to, like, go big. It's gotta be, like, all the things and I gotta cry and scream and, like, have my peak experience and then, like, just float on the cloud like you said. And so often, it's just so ordinary. And I think for a lot of us, I can feel really disappointing, you know, because we're also so conditioned. To have everything be like so big and like so massive. And so when it is more subtle and it is more ordinary, there can be this process that we have to go through around like, oh, actually, this is okay. And this is the sustainable part, and this is actually what my nervous system Neese. needs. And like, let's have a peak experience like once every couple of like, let's have a peak experience, like, once every couple years and, like, that's awesome. awesome. But like for the like long haul, like let's just slow down and like be like, for the, like, long haul, like, let's just slow down and, like, be gentle. And those are things that are, again, like, so counter culture, you know, because we feel like if it's not all the things, then there's not right. And it's not we're not gonna heal or whatever it is, you know. Right. I love the term peak experience. I've never heard that before. Is that a a withbreathwork or spiritual terminology? terminology? Or is that something you say Or is that something you say? It's it's where do I pull it from? from? They say it a lot in like, kind of, you know, like all the different kinds of spiritual modalities, but it's more geared towards like people who are really into athletics and people who are looking for like say it a lot in, like, kind of, you know, like, all different kinds of spiritual modalities, but it's more geared towards, like, people who are really into athletics and people who are looking for, like, that that. Okay. When I've like done my run and I'm like, got this runners high it's like that kind of a I've, like, done my run and I'm, like, got this runner's high. It's like that kind of a thing. And it's really when your endorphins are going and that can happen a lot. And the breath work experience especially more in, like, a breath work journey. Where you're really, like, breathing for, you know, an hour, hour and a half. And then you can potentially have a peak experience there. And, you know, one thing I've seen especially was in LA for a long time with different communities people doing, like, MDMA and, like, all different kinds of stuff. Just trying to get help and heal themselves. Yeah. Like, that they're looking for the peak experience. Right? right? They're looking for the like aha moment or like the super high that's going to carry them They're looking for the, like, aha moment or, like, the super high that's gonna, like, carry them on. And oftentimes what I found within myself and through all the work that I've done especially around trauma is that it's it isn't sustainable. There's nothing wrong with it. Batoon when we're looking for sustainable change and especially those of us who suffer from trauma, like we're actually looking for something that's much slower, that's much softer, that's much more regulated because then our nervous systems and our bodies and brains can actually metabolize and digest it and change, if that makes Neese. Right. Because if we're always kinda shooting for the Pikka experience. It's really hard to metabolize that, and it takes a long time. And sometimes those experience those experiences can actually kinda blow us out. And it can be hard to recover from that. Yeah. That that really brings up some stuff. I mean, my relationship with work is probably like my my greatest addiction and that's I've been really, really working on that for a few years in therapy and now I'm I'm now just starting to uncover all of, you know, what societal standards and my parental conditioning and you know, internalized capitalism and the patriarchy, all this stuff that has put on me like armor. I'm now shedding off and going, oh, I I'm craving a much slower life I have kind of built my identity or my internal identity at least off of how productive I can be, how many you know, views I can get when I used to only make YouTube videos and like how, you know, not only are we digitally, I guess, valued if we've got higher followers, but also, like, the money coming in is higher. So it's like, oh, if I just run this hamster wheel up until I can get more and have more, then I will be happy. And it's I I read this so many times of, like, all these rich celebrities being, like, money doesn't buy you happiness, and it's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, but you have enough. And that's like, well, what do you know? You're rich. And then so now that I'm getting to the point and and no way, shape, or form, am I rich, but I am comfortable enough to where I'm not in scarcity, like how I grow up. So I go, okay, I I worked my ass off to get this far, but now I'm looking back at my last ten years and I'm so grateful for everything that I've done. But it's like, oh, I cannot sustain this for ten more years. No way, like, my body is shutting down. down. I'm having migraines and vertigo and, you know, losing my period for four I'm having migraines and vertigo and, you know, losing my period for four months. It's like, whoa. I need to slow down. And I think lot of people especially in this, I guess, in any creative field now online, it's like you have to always be working. working. And now that I'm saying that it's like, that's not a creative that I'm saying that's like you that's not a creative idea. That's like something that people put in like corporate structure. And you know, people that My dad is an immigrant, so coming here and having to work really hard in order to give his family security. It's like, oh, and and he's also Asian. Asian. So like Asian parents are very like, Asian parents are very strict. And so growing up, was always like, do the most, be the most, have the most. Like, it's gonna be great. And now that I'm older, I'm like, yeah, I don't really vibe with any of those thoughts Neese. And so I'm I'm untangling everything I thought. And and that's why I'm so excited that I've got your book here, like twenty five simple practices. practices. I can do simple I can do simple practices. So I'm really excited to get into these and really, like, start that true connection again because guess I haven't really been living for myself. You know, Megan, I'm really appreciating what you're saying and also hearing, you know, a little bit more of your story in those layers and I'm what I'm really getting is that you're and you said you're entangling a lot of these beliefs and it sounds like you're also in a place where your your values are shifting. shifting. like, what you thought were your values, whether that was from your tangents, or whether that was from our culture, which are so many values placed on us. It's like, but what are my values? Yeah. And so often, when we do that high at work. It's like, it's pretty radical because it's often so different. Right? Then our conditioning. It's like, oh, I actually value, like, going slower. I actually value and Of course, there's all this, like, neuroscience research and all kinds of stuff. Now that points to, like, the more breaks we take, the more rest we get, actually, the weird thing is more active we are, then more creative we are because we can go deep. You know, if we're just always kind of swimming in the shallows and if we're always hustling and if our bodies are like, always breaking down. I actually can't get to that really deep core work in our creativity that we wanna get to either. So it's like and I'm not you know, touting rest as it means to be more productive. I think that's really problematic. rateJust like, you know, and big corporations are like having me come in. They're like, okay, can you come teach everybody work so that they can go and, like, work more and produce more and, like, no, no. Guys, like, hi, that's not why I'm here. I'm so happy to come to each everyone and I do a ton of corporate work and I love all the corporations that I work with, but it's a bit of a mindset shift in the beginning. And then they're like, oh, yeah. Actually, we want everybody to be healthy and grounded and regulated and maybe take care of themselves. I'm like, now we're onto something. Now we can use breath work to, like, help them get there. It's not just to, like, have them produce more for you. You know what I'm saying? Or for your bottom line or whatever it is. Batoon that's also in the last ten years has shifted so much in terms of, you know, corporate culture and a lot of the organizations that I work with because they're like, oh, actually now they're caring so much more about their employees. They're like, we don't actually we want our burn our burnout rates to drop. And, you know, in twenty nineteen, the WHO basically made this huge announcement that burnout is now, like, a global health issue. Like, it's a real thing. Yeah. It's a real thing, like, around the world. And so what are we gonna do? do? And what are, how are we going to go inside of ourselves and decide like, what are we going to align what are how are we gonna go inside of ourselves and decide, like, what are we gonna align with? with? What are our values going to our values gonna be? be? And then how do we make those like small incremental changes to like shift the direction, you know, not just for ourselves, but for the larger then how do we make those, like, small incremental changes to, like, shift the direction, you know, not just for ourselves, but for, you know, the larger culture. Yeah. I'm wondering how long. I mean, obviously, burnout, the sensation has probably been everywhere forever. But I'm I'm wondering, like, as a global Neese? I mean, I guess this is a grander question about your ideologies, but like, do you think that we're finally reaching a point where the world is taking things seriously and that we can make a change? Or do you think that the world will continue spinning the way that it is and the people that decide to, you know, champion that ourselves, then they they can do that for them and heal the multigenerational trauma and they can do that for their communities? Or do you think I'm like, here's all the answer or here's all my questions. Answer all of them at one time. Or do you think that, like, it starts with us and then we lead by example and then the whole world will change? Those are like those are huge questions and they're they're really important questions. You know, I've been thinking about this a lot as I just finished up the manuscript for my second book thinking about the time that we're in and how many different crises are happening. Just like, constantly. And not that they weren't be happening before, but they're just because of lockdown and because of everything else. It was just like almost like everything just louder and more intensified. And my sense and I've heard a couple, you know, different people talk about this, but my own personal sense is that we are all in like a labor right now. We're all in, like, a collective -- Mhmm. time of transition, and we're transforming. And Some of us are gonna get on board and we're gonna do what you said. We're gonna, like, heal the trauma. We're gonna, like, show up for our communities. We're gonna, like, bring as many people with us as we tangents other folks are just gonna choose to stay in their patterning in their imprints and in that kind of unconsciousness and be left behind, honestly. That's what I think. I know it sounds kind of like brutal, but I just really think that's right. And we we can see it. Like, there's so much polarity, there's so much shifting and there's a way that we're all changing and there's this alchemy that's happening and think it's a really potent time and I think there's a lot of opportunity for really deep necessary healing and reparations and so many different things across, like, you know, every spectrum. Batoon it's gonna take the individual. Like, it has to start with us doing our work and doing those incremental changes and then being willing to you know, sacrifice maybe our e you know, kind of put our ego aside or whatever it is to actually stick up for our Entrainment, to stick up for the people who can't stick up for themselves to really be voices to all of those all those pieces. And, you know, it's it's also such a like, it's easy to get overwhelmed right now and just feel like, oh my god, there's like million things going on. Like, how do I even help? How do I show up? And to me, it really comes back down to what we've been talking about. It's like just pick something. You know what I mean? It's like, we all I I hear so many times people are complaining about, like, don't understand why the government doesn't do x about pollution. I don't know this, and it's like, what are you doing in your own life right now? Like, what are you actually doing? doing? What I mean, it's like, look at your do you mean? It's like, look at your life. What are you doing about plastic? What plastic? What are you doing with are you doing of this? It's like, let's just actually start making those tangents, and then we can go out and do the bigger thing. And Does that make sense? And it's like, that's so so so important because it's so easy to speculate and to point fingers and blame and be like, somebody else will take care of it because that's what most people have been thinking for so long, you know, and know. Nobody else is taking care of it. And actually, the younger generations are like pissed because they're like, Hey, guys. Like, you're effing up the world for the rest of us, you know, on so many levels. levels. So like we all have to jump in and do like, we all have to jump in and do something. Yeah. Since it Since it is the month of November, there is no better time to give thanks to all of the positives in our is the month of November, there is no better time to give thanks to all of the positives in our lives. lives. This month, I'm thankful for a meditation that I bought that HBO max month, I'm thankful for meditation that I bought that HBO Mac subscription subscription. And of course for therapy, which brings us to better of course, for therapy. Brings us to better help. It matches you with your own licensed professional therapist who you can start talking to in under twenty four hours in a private and confidential online environment. Hang on. Adding therapy from home to my gratitude list. list. Better, yet better help is yet, better help is free and it's easy to change counselors. counselors. If you just breathe a big sigh of relief, same because finding the right counselors, like finding a romantic partner truly, and seriously, it takes If you just breathwork big sigh of relief, Same. Because finding the right cancellers like finding a romantic partner truly and seriously it takes time. But time. But because so many people have been using better help, they're recruiting additional counselors in all 50 so many people have been using better help, they're recruiting additional counselors in all fifty states. That states. That means it's easier than ever to schedule a weekly video or phone session with the right counselor for means it's easier than ever to schedule a weekly video or phone session with the right counselor for you, but here's the best part. Better help is more affordable than traditional counseling and financial aid is available. available. We love to see it get 10% off your first month by visiting better help.com/just a tip, join over 1 million people taking charge of their mental love to see it. Get ten percent off your first month by visiting better help dot com slash just a tip. Join over one million people taking charge of their mental health one health. One more more time time. That's better better health, HELP dot com slash just a tip. tip. Yeah. I mean, I that's, I am grateful for gen Z for like speaking up about so many I that's I am grateful for Gen Z, for, like, speaking up about so many things. I think the millennial generation has done so much work around therapy and breaking those digmas because my that what? No. Never have or don't say the t word at the dinner table. And so I'm I am, like, so grateful for that. I'm I'm also wondering, like, the five day work we invented by Henry Ford like, oh, yes. Don't even get you started growing like I'm like, why are you still doing that? Like, if we're if we're really thinking about what works for us and slowing down, and how good all this stuff is for us. What? Like, we gotta get I guess, we gotta start this on the ground level and maybe when you go to the corporations, all the CEOs will be like, yeah, I like that. And then maybe if they try it, they'll go, yeah, four four day work weeks sound pretty nice. rateJust read some headline. headline. It might've been this It might have been this morning. morning. It was, I can't remember if it was LinkedIn or like one of these tech was I I can't remember if it was LinkedIn or, like, one of these tech companies and they were, like, our CEO is, like, oh, like, all the, like, top execs, like, took a week off. Like, here's what happened, and it's, like, Great. Like, start there and, like, you know, work your way through the entire organization. But, like, I'm starting to see more and more of these little clips. And to me, that's positive because it's like, okay, people are starting to take this seriously. They're starting to get it. And again, it's like all their research shows. Like, we have to take breaks. Like -- Yeah. -- and not just the research, Batoon, like, let's just talk about our Neese. Like, from a biological perspective, it's like, we are designed to get sleep. So that's like real thing. thing. We're not supposed to not We're not supposed to not sleep. You know what I mean? And our bodies will It's like we can push them only so are before they're gonna try to get homeostasis however they can. Mhmm. And for lot of us myself included that has meant like I'm laid out flat in bed because that's how my body is gonna get the rest and the sabbath that it needs -- Right. -- you know, until we decide, like, maybe there's another way to get that rest or that break. You know what mean without having to be flat out in the bed for a week? Yeah. I now that we're talking about work, I wanna know if you saw a shift once you started doing breath work and meditation practices on your how how you work? Like, before were you ever a workaholic or what was your work relationship like before breath work? I I was a workaholic before breath a workaholic before Breathwork. work. I was a workaholic, probably five or six years into my breath work I was a workaholic probably five or six years into my career. Yeah. And I've it's something that I've struggled with for a lot of the reasons that you talked about too. It's from, you know, my family of origin, from the family system that I grew up in, from the culture that I up. And from being a woman, from being, you know, all the things, it's like constantly having to prove myself, be better than, like, be smarter than just all the things. And And it was the same thing withbreathwork. And it wasn't so much about being better, but it was about and I realized this, like, five years into my when I had private practice in LA, and I was seeing so many clients a week. And then I I got to point where I would see, like, four or five clients in the morning. And then I would literally have to take a nap. Like, I could not I was nonfunctional, and I'd be laid out in bed for, like, two hours, and then I would get up and see, like, a few more clients. And then at some point, my body was just, like, that you you have to, like, tap out, you know. So I emailed, I had a super long list of clients at that point. I was just like, hey, my body's talking to me. I gotta take a sabbatical. Like, I'm gonna just go in the rest. Do some things that I Neese to do for myself. And at that time, I was so scared because part of my self image was like, I never slowed down. I never asked, like, I just go and I've got all this energy and, like, I don't want anyone to think I'm weak and -- Yeah. -- that I can't handle it or that I'm, like, not a good teacher, you know, to all this crap. And I was like and to your point, it's like, wait, who's this talking? Like, whose voices is this? Like, whose beliefs are these? And so I was scared to send that email. And what was so amazing? Every single person wrote me back and they were like, oh my god. Thank you for giving me permission to do this. I'm literally taking us about Like, I'm totally taking time off. Like, take as much time as you need. Email us when you wanna get back to work. Like, when you are ready to see clients again and Since that first sabbatical I took, god, six years ago, I just hate them regularly now. Like, that's just actually part of my practice. It's built into my work flow. Like, I just don't work for certain months out of the year. I take time off. I love it. Oh, Microsoft. Wait. What does that look like in the calendar year? year? Like, do you have specific months that you block off or do you do like one here and one there whenever you feel like do you have specific months that you block off? Or do you, like, one year and one there whenever you feel like it? So for the first few years, I had specific, times that I blocked off. And because I was mostly doing I was doing corporate work, but my practice was mostly seeing individual clients and teaching classes. And for most people travel around the holidays. So I would typically take off, like, middle of November till middle of January. So I'd always give myself those two months. And then typically in the summer, I would take, like, another six weeks off, depending now that I have a three year old and are we live out in the country and our lives are completely different. different. It's not as the schedule is a little bit different, but I do take around at least three months off a not as the schedule is a little bit different, but I do take around at least three months off a year. give, you know, different points just to It's so necessary. Yeah. I love that so much because that's something I'm thinking about a lot in this kind of cocoon I would say, I mean, of cocoon phase for sure. I always feel like I'm a con in a cocoon phase. Can't even say word cocoon. Batoon it feels like we're always in transition, but I I feel like a bigger shift in myself right now. And it's a lot of it is regarding my work around my relationship to work. And so I'm I'm trying to understand, like, what is actually necessary and what is just like work not even working to feel like I'm working, but like that all of my conditioning to be like rateJust always need to be a hundred percent productive that the thought of not ever taking a break and if I was gonna live my life like this for the rest of my life, I would like be on my deathbed being like that was like a wild ride, but I didn't really have fun sometimes. And it's like, oh yeah, like lives are meant to be lived, and and I'm working on this project in the desert, a lot of builds with my hands, lot of working with wood, soil, the sun, I go to bed when or I stop working working. When the sunset happens, I wake up with the the sunset happens, I wake up with the sun. It's very healthy for me, and feel like I'm connecting to kinda like my ancestral lineage. Like, I feel like I'm, like, really doing what we were what we are supposed to be doing. Before we decided that, like, we need to work a lot. Or in this in this way, obviously, like, we were always, like, running from lions and making fires and building shelter. Batoon, I feel like that's the type of work that I want to do do. And that's the fulfilling, satisfying work is to do that for that's the fulfilling satisfying work is to do that for myself that doesn't feel like work. And so that's that's the goal that I'm I'm going to and imagining three months off, it it's like, oh, I could just, like, renovate a house. Batoon me, that's not like a money thing and that's not a Instagram real thing. It's just like a This is so nourishing for me in so many ways that I feel like I'm living like we are supposed to live. Like out in the sun, tending to crops, like doing all of those primal things, it's it's like super enticing to me right now. So hearing that you take three months off, I'm like, okay. Yeah. I'm gonna do that. Yeah. And to your point and too late, we moved. We live out by Yosemite National Park now, and we moved out here a year and a half ago, and we're on thirty acres and just feel so fortunate to be. It's like a while. We haven't there's parts of the land that we haven't even visited yet. Because there's so much brush and so much stuff we can't even get over there. But it's been, you know, talking about aligning with your circadian rhythm and, like, going to sleep with the sunset and waking up with this sunrise and just being out on the land and we've got this like, it's like a sixty five foot garden where we like grew a lot of our own food this summer and getting our sun out there, just naked, running around, like, playing in the in the dirt, and just really, like, having that experience. experience. And then for me, it's like that to me, doesn't feel like, you know, starting the garden was a lot of And then for me, it's like that, Timmy doesn't feel like you know, starting the garden was a a lot of work. Like, it was a lot of physical labor. You know, it labor. I was like shoveling mulch and doing all this kind of like shoveling mulch and doing all this kind of stuff, but Once we get everything set up, then it was really just that tending to and going out and connecting with the plants and seeing where they were and seeing if they were getting enough light and water rateJust those kinds of things. And it's so like, my nervous system is just like, yes. It's so regulating. It's so grounding. And it really does feel like, oh, this is what this is what we're supposed to be doing. You know, we don't have to have a huge garden garden. Like I have, it can be indoor I have. It can be indoor house plants. Like, there's some way for all of us to connect with that that can really just regenerate ourselves in such a deep level. Yeah. I also think that tending to something whether it be plants or pets, has really helped take me out of my anxious brain. When I first got my cats, I was just like, oh my god, I gotta keep you alive. And so I wasn't really thinking about any of my stresses, stresses. It's like, okay, do you have enough like, okay. Do you have enough food? Do you have water? Do you have Neese? And it it is really it helps a lot to feel selfless. selfless. Like, I don't know if I've ever felt like that true sense of selflessness even in my relationships, because it was just, I mean, maybe they weren't aligned at the right time or whatnot, but yeah, it feels like if we're doing that for and pets and that's like the, the intro to doing that for ourselves, then that's I I don't know if I've ever felt like that true sense of selflessness even in my relationships because it was just I mean, maybe they weren't aligned at the right time or whatnot. But yeah, it feels like If we're doing that for plants and pets and that's like the intro to doing that for ourselves, then that's amazing. And think I'm finally getting to that part like had my cats for about four years now and it's like, okay, now I'm gonna take care of myself because I haven't been doing that. Yeah. And I love that what you shared too, like, sometimes we need that entry point. It's like, you know, I've been doing a lot of, like, really intense work with my with my family and, you know, around setting boundaries rateJust a lot of, like, just a a lot of really hard stuff that It's not that I wasn't doing it before like I was doing it to a degree, but then once we had had our baby, it was like, whoa. Okay. I just got initiated into like a whole another level of like, all the things and I was like, oh, actually now I have to take care of myself and this child in a totally different way. And I also want to model to him something that I was never like no one ever modeled to me, so that's also really important. But it's almost like being taking care of him is, like, up leveled my own ability to take care of my self too and just go so much deeper with it. So -- Yeah. -- I appreciate what you shared what you shared about the animals and the plants because we just sometimes, we just need that entry point because it can be so hard to do things for selves, you know? Oh, yeah. Yeah. I Yeah. I mean, especially when, when lives are dependent on your care, like plants, kids or pets, like you ask to learn the NES, the necessities of being a living, breathing especially when when lives are dependent on your care, like plants, kids, or pets, like US to learn the nest the necessities of being a living organism and you're like, okay, wait, so am I? So let's give me I'm gonna take some of that or, like, take the idea of that and then apply it to myself. If If you've been following my Instagram recently, you know, I've been working on a design project in the desert and between the dry climate and the constant saw dust flying around my skin has been taking a bit of a hit, which is why we got to talk about been following my Instagram recently, you know I've been working on a design project in the desert. And between the dry climate and the constant sawdust flying around, my skin has been taking a bit of a hit, which is why we gotta talk about urology. Cureology. Since my schedule has been hectic, I am all about simplicity right my schedule has been pactic. I am all about simplicity right now now. And Curology makes it easy by having you answer questions online about your skin and sending in a couple makes it easy by having you answer questions online about your skin and sending in a couple selfies. selfies. I like to think of it as a little personality quiz for my Like to think of it as a little personality quiz for my face. face. 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That's CUR0L0GY dot com slash just a tip to unlock your free thirty day trial. C urology dot com for all the details. Yeah. Yeah. details. thing that was thinking, and my therapist and I just talked about this earlier today, speaking about work and like the amount of time you have left over in order to tend to yourself, your garden, your kids, your pets, your family, your relationships. relationships. like if you listening are also or have experienced workaholism, if you put ninety eight percent of your time into work. You only have two percent left for everything else in your life. That's your self care, your relationships, your just general day to day living friendships. There's so much that you have to squeeze into two percent, and that's why relationships fail. That's why you, like, you become unhappy. It's like, oh, you're putting all of your energy because, like, we can't, like, make more energy. energy. We have energy, we can raise our have energy. We can raise our energy. energy. We can't make more of can't make more of it. So it's like, how am I gonna use the energy that I have in the right ways? I think there's also probably a a graphic somewhere online in in some, like, therapy Instagram account. That's like, if you only have, like, one jug of water and you have five cups, how are you gonna fill all the cups without, you know, running out of water? And that's such a that was such a interesting and insightful thing for me to see because it's like, oh yeah, I think I'm limitless when it comes to working, but then when it comes to like actually being human, I forget about what I need and how much I actually have in my resources. Yeah. That's so true. And I appreciate the visual there too because it's you know, my friend Kelly talks about this in terms of, like, buckets, and she's like, we have, like, our family bucket, our partnership bucket, our work bucket, or whatever, like, cat's bucket, you know, all the different things, and then it's like, at the end of the day of all of our we're putting all of our, you know, energy into our work bucket. It's like, what do we have left over? And and so, I know, the therapist. She's written so many books Esther Perrell talks about this a lot too. She's like so many of the couples that she works with. It's like they're like not putting any effort or energy into the relationship and she's like, of course, you guys are fighting. Like, of course, there's infidelity. infidelity. It's like, if you basically show up and give your partner, like crumbs, you know, over and over and over, and you're not actually putting any real concerted effort into that relationship, like it's not just going to sustain It's like, if you basically show up and give your partner, like, crumbs, Yeah. You know, over and over and over and you're not actually putting any real concerted effort into that relationship, like, it's not just gonna sustain itself, like, it needs love, it needs care, it needs attention, just like everything else, it needs energy, you know. So that's that's something that I've been working on lot in my own life too right now just with writing the book and then parenting Solomon and all the things. And then it's like, my really I'm like, oh, my relationship is with my partners, like, not where it needs to be. So that means I need to shift some of the buckets around and, like, put more in that bucket because it's something that's important to me. Yeah. You know? And the way that I show that it's important to me is by giving attention. You know what I mean? It's not just enough to be like, you're so important to me, sweetie. It's like, yep. Okay. So, like, what like, are you gonna, like, show up? And, like, you know what I mean? Like, show don't tell. Right? Right? Like, just show, like, I don't actually care what you say, just like do the just show. Like, I don't actually care what you rateJust, like, do the thing. Right? And it's, like, oh, okay. Right? So Right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's what I'm, I'm also realizing that that's what I'm I'm also realizing that too. And something that was like really illuminating is since I have been putting my work first for so long and, like, spent all of my twenties working, like, ninety plus hours per week, trying to, like, build businesses and become, like, financially stable on my own. own. It's like, oh, I'm so used to It's like, oh, I'm so used to that. So every time I get into a relationship and there's any sort of, you know, frick chin, and it's like, oh, you'd want me to work less, boy, bye. And it's like, oh, no. No. No. No. Like now my partner is like, maybe we should work little less because, like, you're you're not well. Like, you're always sick. And I'm like, okay, I'm gonna listen to you just because, like, I know you're worth it. And you are holding a mirror to me me. And I am seeing that and I am seeing that and okay. And it is like it's it's not normal for me in order to put somebody like at the same level as my work, and I know that sounds like so sad for people listening to be like, oh my god. Batoon, I mean, that's just the that's the case with me right now, and I'm working through that. Batoon it's it's really interesting to go, okay, I'm gonna work thirty percent less and exactly like you said, like put that into that bucket because I I guess, for some reason, I thought, like, once it was locked in, it was good. And that's not the case. Girl, that's not the case. I know. I'm just laughing think isn't, like, relatable. Like yeah. I've in in the past and past relationships have gone through that with so many different partners. And remember my last partner before, you know, I got engaged to Nick. It was just that was, like, one of our kind of it wasn't like it was constant battle, but it was definitely, like, hey, like, it's, like, give and send more attention. And I'm, like, well, just go entertain yourself. Like, I have stuff to do. You know what I mean? And now I'm, like, oh my god. I said that. Like, oh, It's just like and now I don't have any shame about it. It's like that's where I was. Like, that's just where I was in my life. And I was like, you, was just like, you know, in LA, I was hustling. I was like starting my business. I was building all these things. I was doing clients. clients. I was like supporting myself and making money and being like, okay, I'm setting myself I was like supporting myself and making money and being like, okay, I'm setting myself up. And just honestly at the time wasn't really in the space mentally or emotionally to, like, give that to that person. And person. And I think that's what I realized think that's what I realized too. I was, like, oh, actually, I just I'm not ready to like, open that up for you. Mhmm. So you. So I'm just going to keep working company now with my current just gonna keep working. But now with my current partner, it's like, no. No. It's no. Sometimes it just it's like, we have to go through what we have to go through, you like, we have to go through. We have to go through. You know, and at some point, we get we're ready. And then we're like, okay. Like, I love you and I see that you want the best for me and I've done, like, actually done this pattern many times before. So maybe now we're gonna switch it up, you know. That's exact oh my god. That's like the motto of my life right out. Like, I I exactly, like, what I said earlier is, like, I've lived ten years overworking myself into actual deficit, like, health deficit, then I'm like, okay, well, what else is there? Like, what are the other options? Like, I've already explored that like far down the road. Now, like, let's let's take a detour because, like, I I understand what that would be like if I continue. What would it be like if do something new? And I think that's, like, my I do feel so energized energized. Even thinking about like moving to the thinking about, like, moving to the desert. And I'm wondering, like, you moved to you said not maintain not maintain. Yeah. Where's it a Yosemite national it? US, I'm international. Yeah. We're up in Northern California. Okay. Mhmm. California. you move there in order to find, like, a a bit more of a slow life or was it something else? else? was the main that was the main thing. thing. Like we had, I lived in LA for a long time and then I moved up to the bay area to be with my we had I'd lived in LA for a long time, and then I moved up to the Bay Area to be with my partner, and then we had our son. And then once and we had our we're already even before I was pregnant, like, I moved up there. And I I kind of knew when we both knew it was temporary, we wanted to live somewhere smaller, but neither one of us were ready especially me. I guess my partner, I'll say, he was ready, but I wasn't quite ready. ready. So I needed like another year or two in the city before I was like, okay, So I Neese, like, another year or two in the city before I was, like, okay, fine. I'm willing to, like, go to the country now. And then, yeah, we had our son and then I was like, I just was looking around and I'm like, I want something different for him. I want him to just be running around barefoot. I want him to be somewhere where he can just go outside and, like, have free reign to just, like, go around wherever and not always have to be, like, me, like, hyper vigilant, like, Is he okay? Is he gonna run onto the street? Is he gonna get hit by a car? Does all the stuff you have to navigate in a city? And -- Right. -- you know, we looked at a lot different places. We spent about a year like traveling kind of all over Northern California and going to different spots just to see like what would feel good and also what we could afford because up there, it's just like so like, crazy expensive that we were like, oh, okay. We had really didn't I was like, people apparently wanna live in small towns. That's a thing. So we found a place that was just, you know, within our budget that made sense. So we all you know, because I also didn't wanna move and then feel like, okay. We, like, overspent and now I'm having a hustle to, like, live in the country like that is, like, totally makes no Neese, you know. Right. So So. Oh, wow. Yeah. So just making those kind of smart financial decisions to set us up for the light that we wanted. And, yeah, it's been really amazing out here, and it's definitely I said, been sinking up to the rhythm, been sinking up more to the seasons, to the light, rateJust to quiet. Yeah. So quiet out here at night. Like, I don't hear anything. That's I mean, is that for the wind, maybe? No. No. The occasional neighbor, like, shooting off a gun or something. But other than that, it's like, It's like nothing. It's just it's really wild, and it's been so restorative from my nervous system. And I honestly like, I mean, I lived in very major metropolitan areas my whole life. And I had a little bit of a fear around like, okay. So this might be cool for like two months, and then I'm gonna, like, play my shit and be bored or like, what if I have to face all these weird parts of myself? And it gets really intense. And you know what I mean? It's just there's a lot that can come up. And all that has come up, and I've been totally okay and have the resources and tools to just navigate that. But honestly, it's been such a like a literal breathwork fresh air just to be out here and just be in a place where there's more trees than there are humans. It's just really nice. Yeah. Ah, that sounds so sounds so idyllic. So that's interesting that you said that, like, I guess, maybe in a way the the novelty wore off after a few months. And then did you have to, like, reconnect to I guess, I'm I don't wanna put words in your mouth, but when you said, like, am I gonna get bored with this? Did you end up getting bored with the country at first? No. I didn't. And that was my biggest fear because I was like, I'm so used to living in places that are so stimulating. You know, it's like growing up in Atlanta and then living in LA and living in San Francisco and, you know, there's all these places. It's like there's so much stimulation constantly. And so I was like, what is it gonna be like in a place where there's like it's like sit there for an hour and, like, maybe you see a deer walk by, you know? Like, am I gonna be okay? Like, I you know, and I I kinda it's I equate it to, like, many years ago, I went on my first silent meditation retreat, and something that I'd wanted to do for a long time, but I was terrified. I was like, oh my god. I can't, like, talk to anybody for a week. Like -- Right. -- what? Like, that seems, like, really scary and, like, Anyway, so I finally went and had this, like, really profound experience and it was so amazing on like day three. First two days were like hello formal. Sure. horrible. And then day three, everything And then day three, everything shifted and it was like, oh, the the skies parted and I was like, I'm so in my body and this is so cool. And that's kind of what happened out here. I got out here in the first Honestly, the first few months, it was just such a relief to be out of the city that I was like, oh, this is so nice. And then things got a little bit challenging, but then they settled down and I've because there's this really cool phenomenon and it's called Entrainment. Do you know about in training? No. It's really cool. So it's where our bodies essentially, our body synced up to an environment. environment. So they, they sync up to the pace of the environment, just like our body sync up to a song, So they they synced up to the pace of the environment like our body synced up to a song. Right? So you can listen to a song, you can feel certain way. way. If you listen to a fast song, you're going to like go a little bit listen to a fast song, you're gonna like little bit faster. If you listen to a slow song, your body is gonna match up to that. It'll be in trained to go slower. slower. So when we live in really fast paced environments, our bodies are in trained to match that pace and a part of what was happening to me in LA with burnout as it, actually, my body wanted to go a different pace and it was coming up against the pace of the city that wasn't quite working for me we live in really fast paced environments, our bodies are in train to match that pace. And a part of what was happening to me in LA with burnout is that actually my body wanted to go pace, and it was coming up against the pace of the city that wasn't quite working for me anymore. So long story short, now that my body has, like, sinked up and hasn't trained to the rhythm of the place that I'm in, it just feels natural to me now. Wow. Yeah. That makes so much sense. sense. I was just writing in my journal, something very similar that I didn't know that terminology yet, but it was explaining that exact same was just writing in my journal something very similar that didn't know that terminology yet, but it was explaining that exact same thing. Like, I I'm so sensitive to energy around me, especially of a city or an environment. And so I was like, yeah, I'm just I'm two different people. I've got my LA personality and I've got my desert personality. And now that I hear that I'm like, oh, that makes so much sense that I'm I'm being Entrainment by the place because it it really is. And It's interesting because I moved here for a dream, a specific dream. I was a professional dancer before I became a designer. And it's like, okay. That was whole ten years in my life, and I've I've come into different Neese. And now that I look at my life, I'm like, oh, that's not in alignment anymore. anymore. Like that's not actually helping the life that I want to that's not actually helping the life that I want to And so that's exciting to hear your journey and like going to smaller city because I was not even a city of smaller town because that's exactly what I'm toying with. And every single day I'm on Zillow and I'm like, okay, what houses are coming up now? Because it's just like I can tell that that's what my body is craving. Yeah. Now that I'm listening to it. Yeah. Totally. Totally. I mean, you're you are so intuitive. And now that you're listening, it's like that that information in those signals, what I found from my own experience, the more I listen, the the easier it to hear and almost like the louder I get. It's like I can't ignore it anymore, you know. And I think that's one of, you know, just to struggle back briefly to to breathwork. That's one of the things that I've always appreciate it about breathing and one of the reasons I continue to do it is because it just gives me access to these parts of myself and gives me access to that deeper listening and that deeper presence. And so now it's like it's like I can know I need to do something. And then at some point, it's like, alright. It's like it almost becomes too painful to not do it. And so you're like, okay, I just I gotta just do it. You know, I gotta just take the risk or say the thing or whatever it is that I need to do, and then everything shifts again. Right. It's like, caring for yourself makes caring for yourself easier. Yeah. Because once you start doing it, then it'll let you know what it Do you go, okay, buddy. I'll give you that. Yes. And I, you know, I loved what you said earlier Batoon, and I'm trying to remember your exact phrasing. So forgive me if I'm, you know, if I'm not getting it exactly right, but when you're when we are talking about relationships, we're kind of going, 0II know what that is, like, what could like, I've already experienced all that. I know those patterns. But, like, what could this look like? like? What's a different a different option? Like, I haven't explored this route before. before. Like I haven't explored putting more of my energy into my relationship I haven't explored putting more of my energy into my relationship bucket. Like, let's give that a shot. You know? Right. And there's something that's so beautiful about that openness and that curiosity, you know, that can come to when we do this work. It's just like, oh, what could that be like? Like, what would it be like to live in the desert? desert? And like, let's just go explore that and see, you know, like, let's just go explore that and see, you know? Right. Mhmm. Oh my god. I just I think that discovering things about yourself is, like, that's my new high. Like, it was work before and I think this one's a much healthier high. But I wanted to speak a little bit about your actual practice and your methodology because it it has a few elements that I'm not familiar with, so I think that my audience would be really interested in it as well. So can you explain a little bit more about, like, your specific methodology of breath work? Yeah, totally. So my method of my breathatology can even talk my method of my brand. inquiry. I know it is here we know it is. Here we go. Dang dang. My method of Breathwork in the is is a couple different parts. So it's first and foremost, it's trauma informed, which is really important. Timmy is a trauma survivor, and also in think in this day and age to be trauma aware and trauma sensitive. Like, the reality is that most of us, I'm not gonna say all because you can't ever say that, but most of us have some kind of trauma that we're grappling with, and there's collective trauma, and there's trauma that's literally on the land that we live on. I mean, there's just so much that is happening. That's embedded in our nervous systems. It's part of our psychies that needs to be addressed. And, you know, when I first started working with breath work, I had no you know, trauma and I was teaching classes, and I was getting clients that were having Neese, like, I'm, like, really huge experiences where they were discovering parts of themselves and, like, having memories from their past come up that they were like, oh my god. Like, I've my body has block this out for a good Neese. Didn't keep me safe, safe. But like now it's all flooding back and you know, as a practitioner I'm kind of going, oh my God, like, okay, how can I help like, now it's all flooding back. And, you know, as a practitioner, I'm kind of going, oh my god, like, okay, how can I help you? Like, I need to go get Neese to get some more help so that I can know what to do. And so I've been for the last six years really heavily studying trauma. And somatic trauma and how trauma works in the body and like how to help heal and repair it. So that's a big aspect of my breath work. And another big aspect is you know, there's so many different ways that people practice breath, but mine is really, you know, client focused in in the sense of, like, what does the client need when I see them? them? You know, there's a way that, you know, yoga or breath work or even meditation can kind of be put upon You know, there's a way that you know, yoga or a breath worker, even meditation can kind of be put upon us. It's like, okay, you do this practice now, but then I actually wanna sit with my client and be like, where are you at right now? Mhmm. You know, like, what's happening in your life? Like, what's gonna be the most supportive for you? Because the reality is not sure we can say that, you know, on a general scale, like, if you're doing extended exhale, like, so you're inhaling through your nose, you're exhaling through your Neese, and your exhale is a little bit longer than your inhale. We know science shows that that that's regulating for the nervous system. So that is gonna help our nervous system regulate. It's gonna help bring us more into a parasympathetic state. That's really helpful. Ninety percent of my that's what they need. Like, they're more on the, like, anxious stress, like, dealing with life, trauma, burnout, like, that kind of picture. Like, they need, like, self regulation tools. It's like -- Right. -- how can I get in my body? How can I feel safer in my body? How can I stay in my body for longer periods of time? And how can I access the part of myself that's more the word I use as adults? So how do I stay more in my adult self? Or she's getting always triggered and activated into younger part of myself because, you know, through this work, we see it. So when we're coming from those younger places who just need our attention. That's all they're really asking for, but that can create a lot of complications in our life versus coming from, like, our center and from our adult place. And so a lot of the breath work that I do is really working around that too. It's like, how do we live more from our integrity and from our values? And so it's about flooring our values through our body, through our breath, and getting those values centered in our core, in our nervous system so that we can have that north star that isn't coming from our culture, that isn't coming from, like, something that was embedded in us or imprinted on us from our lineage with something that's coming directly from us. And you know, the other piece I wanna mention touching briefly on, you know, trauma and an intellectual trauma is so often and trauma talk, we're, like, really focusing on, like, all the negative aspects of the trauma that came through. And it's really important. And I love that a lot of people are talking about, like, post traumatic growth because it's really important to recognize the resilience that we have. It's like they made it you know, like, they made it. And we are making it too. Yeah. You know? know? And it's so important to name that it's so important to like tap into that it's so important to name that. It's so important to, like, tap into that resilience and, you know, I have a I'm Jewish, I have, like, a really, like, complicated, you know, Jewish lineage and it's just It's amazing to, like, think about my ancestors and to think about what they endured and to also connect with, like, the gratitude of, like, the perseverance and the strength and the resilience. And so I think for all of us, that's something to connect to and really focus on. And so a lot of the breath work and a lot of my methodology is really focused on resilience building. Like, how do we build the resilience within our own systems, but then also connect that outward so that we have support because we can be supported by the resilience of our ancestors. We can be supported by the resilience of the earth. And so how do we make those connections and how do we foster those relationships? Wow. That was so well said. It's like you've said it before. It was no act. I was like, at Neese moments sometimes where I'm talking and I'm present and I know what I'm saying, but that like You're like, I got there sometimes when I'm like in it. Like, it's a little bit of a download too. Totally. No. That No, I mean, that was so mean, that was so beautiful. I'm I'm if anyone was on the fence about breath work, I think they they have just signed up. They're like, I'm in. Yeah. I'm obviously gonna link all of your stuff in the show notes in order for people to find you and more of your work, but you just said you finished your manuscript manuscript. I have your first book in my hand now how to I have your first book in my hand now, how to breathe. So they can find that. When is the second book coming out? If you have a date So our update is October twenty twenty two. So publishing industry is a little slower, you know, sometimes And because of COVID, things are just going a little bit slower now, so we're looking at a year out. But first, manuscript is in. We're gonna be editing for a few months and then a dear friend of mine is designing the book. So it's just like had a breed that's like heavily designed and it's gonna be really beautiful and it's gonna be a big I can't I'm not allowed to say the title, but I will say that it is gonna be an antidote to burnout. And it's basically it's like the companion book to how to breathe. So for those of you who have how to breathe, for those of you who are like getting into breath work and doing their practices in there, this is like the next phase. So it's the next step on the journey. Wow. I am so excited and now that you mentioned the design, I will say that, like, the first thing that I saw or when I opened the book, It was like, wow, this is a beautiful book. And then I let everybody scroll scroll through the pages. Wow. I'm a millennial. But I was like, thumbnail through the pages, like, the the texture of the paper choice that you have was amazing. And, like, anything that's printed on it. It's just so high quality, the font choices. So, I mean, you can tell you've got an artistic background. And so everything about it is beautiful, the content, the visuals of it. I'm excited for anyone else to grab it and we can do breath work together because this is very new to me, but I'm very, very excited to see where takes me. I'm so excited to see where it takes you And, you know, my encouragement for the book for you and for those who are gonna grab it is to really use it in a way that's intuitive. intuitive. So I typically it's in three I typically it's it's in three sections. sections. So the first two sections are kind of nuts and bolts pieces like autonomic nervous system, how to get in touch with that, learning about your the first two sections are kinda nuts and bolts pieces, like, autonomic nervous system, how to get in touch with that, learning about your diaphragm. Second chapter is really, like, like, how do, like, how? Usually, really, how do we set up a practice? How do we stay consistent? What does that look like? So it's getting into those, like, more pragmatic pieces. And then the end of the book is all the different practices. And and the table of contents. It's an alphabetical order you can read an alphabet order, you can read through. So there's a practice for anger. anger. There's a practice for a practice for boundaries. There's a practice for intimacy. intimacy. There's a practice for resilience and you can just pick and choose based on what your needs are in that There's a practice for resilience. And you can just pick and choose based on what your needs are in Entrainment. And all their practices are meant to be short, accessible, repeatable, that's really a thing. It's like just do it consistently as, you know, as best you can. And I typically suggest whatever time a day you can do, Right? Back in the like, way back when before I had a child, and when I was just kinda solo in LA, I would wake up at four in the morning because that's when all the yogis get up and, like, eat their meditation in the dark and that's, like, when a lot of, you know, like, Michelle Obama, that's when, like, big people get up and, like, do their, like, magic work. So I was, like, okay, if it's good enough for her, like, I can get up before I am too. Yeah. Yes. You know, get me into that, and I do my dry brushing, and I do all this chanting, and I'm like, I get into it. But Now life is different, so it's just about fitting it in where you can and just trying to have just trying to make it a daily habit. That's really the man. Yeah. And I really like that you write, like, how long it will take. Because for me, I'm always like, okay, I live by my calendar. And so when you're like, hey, this is a sitting meditation five minutes ago, oh, got it. Like, I get that. Totally. Yeah. And that was really the plan because I know when I was thinking about, you know, when I was writing the book, I was thinking a lot about what I was going through when I started and also all the clients that I work with and they're like, but how long is this gonna take? Like, you know, how can I fit this in? Like, how can I it's like, okay? Let's just make this, like, as easy as possible. Again, because those are the habits that they're the easiest to recreate and the easiest to get to stick and actually become integrated into our lives. It's like it's gotta be simple to start with. Like, you don't need to breathe for an hour. You don't even need to breathe for twenty minutes. Like, start with just couple minutes and build from there. Yeah. I'm so excited. I excited. I mean, after we get done recording, I most likely will do one and that will be so exciting to after after we get done recording, I most likely will do one, and that will be so excited. I mean, I'm so energized by talking you. Thank you so much for your time. I I'm very excited for people to hear this episode. Thank you so much for having me Megan. I feel like we went on such an amazing journey together and I just everything we had talked about, and I'm really grateful. So thank you. Yay. Round of applause for everyone. That was beautiful. That was a head down podcast.