0:03

Welcome to forever dog. You can listen to this podcast ad free on forever dog.

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Plus by signing [email protected] slash plus, and make sure to follow us on social@foreverdogteamandcheckoutallofourpodcastsatforeverdogpodcasts.com.

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Thank

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you

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for

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your

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support

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and

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enjoy

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the

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show. I'm

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Allison Baskin. I'm a writer, mental health advocate, and I have slightly blonde hair.

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Now I am Gabby, Don ever writer by fond bisexual icon weekend.

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I own a bald Chihuahua. He's not bald balding balding.

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Oh yeah, you got your a balyage.

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I did. You can tell on the zoom, but I'm pretty thrilling for all now.

1:07

No, it looks great. How long did it take?

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It only took maybe like three and a half hours.

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God it's so it's such a thing to dire.

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I know, but I feel like this is like a gateway hair color for me where I'm like, Ooh, I like this light.

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Cause I was like very worried. I wouldn't be able to pull off lighter at all, but now I feel like it actually brings out my eyes more.

1:29

And so now I'm like, cause she left a lot of like my natural hair color.

1:34

Yeah. And now I'm like, Ooh, what would it look like if I just did like everything this color?

1:38

Oh wow. That's so wild.

1:40

Are you going to be a blonde? Maybe I'll be like a blonde.

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I don't know. Maybe be a blonde.

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Why not? You've never done it. And then you can always go back.

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Who cares? I did it in college and it looked horrible.

1:54

Okay. But everybody looked bad in college, but it was also, I think it was just like orange.

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It wasn't like a good tone, but she said that my hair lifts really well.

2:05

So that's cool.

2:07

Do straight up blonde.

2:09

Why not? But do you like it?

2:12

You didn't say anything. Your hair is in a pony tail.

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Yes. I like it. Your hair was up in a ponytail.

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So I wasn't sure if you like wanted a compliment on it or not.

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I always want a compliment.

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Oh, it looks great.

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But if you went full blonde, I mean, who knows?

2:29

That would disrupt the whole dynamic of this odd couple situation.

2:32

Well, you got bang.

2:34

So I feel like it's only fair now to now go blonde my hair off.

2:38

I feel bad. Cause you were like, I'm going to do this whole like new thing or whatever.

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And then I just like shaved my, I also was like, ah, exactly.

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This is, this feels right.

2:47

I might actually take the rest off.

2:50

I might shave it fully. Oh, do a full, shave a buzz cut.

2:53

I might like actually buzz all of my hair off.

2:56

Would you color the buzzer or you keep it your natural?

2:58

What color? Like

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blondish. Like why not? I'm already, I'm so close.

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I just have bangs right now and, and why not?

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And you want it? There's like a Tik TOK audio.

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That's like shave your head. You then you can get to tell people that you've shaved your head.

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You know what I mean? You get to live a life where you, you were like, I had a shaved head for awhile.

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It's a look. It's a, it's a statement.

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It's a look. It's a thing.

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I actually, I just met up with Francesca Ramsey.

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Oh yeah. She has a shaved head. Right.

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She has a shaved Head and I was like asking her.

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I was like, like, has it been hard? She's queer.

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But she's like still dating men too.

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And she was like, as like, has it been hard? Like are men like put off by you having shaved head?

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And she was like, I have never been hit on by more straight men in my life then.

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Yeah. And I was like fascinating.

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Okay. She also is objectively, just incredibly beautiful.

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Like you were stunning. Like I was worried about looking still, even though I'm like having my gender stuff, I'm like, but the male gaze, but she was like, no men were hitting on me with a shaved head.

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So, but you should go full blonde.

4:04

Wow. Maybe I will do it.

4:06

Okay. Well I feel like I gotta like, wait this out.

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It's also funny because like literally no one in real life has complimented me about it.

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Yeah. Cause I like taught my two classes.

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I like went to school and like nobody, you know what?

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I haven't seen any of my friends in real life.

4:25

Right. So Melissa, I'm seeing you in real life tomorrow and I expect a lot of compliment And

4:31

she's shaking her head. No, but you guys have a similar thing going on.

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You both have blonde sort of weaved into your dark hair so that Yeah.

4:38

Where are you really giving it to you both ways, you know?

4:43

Oh God. Well this is just between us.

4:45

The variety show filled with heartfelt advice, Ridiculous

4:48

games and Brutal

4:50

honesty. We

4:52

have got a great show for you guys today, our guests.

4:55

I mean, how do you even describe them?

4:58

Internet royalty, Jeanette

4:59

royalty, Connor Franta. Who's going to be answering some tough questions about profiting off your life, using yourself as a business, his new book, house buyers.

5:07

I mean just generally what a cutie Pie.

5:10

I know. So delightful, Delightful

5:12

interview and a Rousing

5:14

rousing Gable. Hypothetical's you're Gonna

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want to buckle up for hypothetical And

5:20

later we'll be talking all about sibling dynamics.

5:24

Can't wait. But

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first we have to answer a listener's question and you know what that means.

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anonymous.

5:41

Singapore. I also want to say huge trigger warning for this.

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This question is very much about like sexual assault.

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So just huge, huge trigger warning. Yes.

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And the author identifies as she her.

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Yes. So Hey Alison and Gabby, I've been single for almost two years now.

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And I thought that it's about time. I went back on the dating scene because I do miss going on dates and dressing up.

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However, I had a bad experience with a friends with benefits before where they filmed me without my consent.

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I already reported it to the police and was even sharing it to his friends.

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I had no idea he was capable of that.

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As he always acted friendly, I was truly appalled and erase myself from Tinder and other dating apps.

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But more than that, I was shocked that none of his friends said anything and was even cheering him on the texts that I saw really took a toll on me.

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I'm already a very shy person, but this made me even more wary of guys and even afraid to talk to most of them now, because even if they're super friendly, I never know what they're actually thinking with.

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COVID I hardly get to meet new people because everything is online and the restrictions here are quite tight.

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So my most viable option right now would be dating apps.

6:50

I genuinely thought I was over the whole situation until I thought of the possibility that people I meet might have seen me in a compromising position.

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Even when I'm outside and people look at me, my friends and family would jokingly say, Hey, they're looking at you.

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They probably think you're pretty. When in reality, I'm just panicking inside thinking.

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They recognize me from a video and I avoid all eye contact.

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I'm so afraid of meeting new people because of this because they could either recognize me, not just potential partners, but new friends, or they could pull off the same stunt that friends with benefits did, but acting nice and friendly while they're talking behind my back and talking and sharing videos of me without my consent.

7:26

I know that not all guys are the same, but the fact that it's possible really scares me.

7:31

How do I get over this fear that by putting myself out there again, I might meet people who are friends with my ex friend with benefits and probably saw me in a video or heard rumors about me.

7:40

I've talked to friends about this before, and I know that moving forward, I can always open up to my partner about this trauma and work it out.

7:47

But I just can't get over the initial step of dating again.

7:50

What are your thoughts on this much love from a fan in Singapore That

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is incredibly fucked up.

7:57

If you know someone, or if you are friends with someone who is two is sharing videos like this, this person from Singapore, talking about how the friends didn't say anything or didn't tell this person that what they were doing was both illegal, immoral, fucked up, horrible rapey, terrible.

8:12

You are a bad person.

8:14

Like you need to blow that shit up.

8:15

One, two.

8:17

I am so sorry.

8:19

This happened to you. This is like the most not okay.

8:22

I think obviously you're putting a lot of pressure on yourself to be over it.

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And I really don't think you have to be.

8:28

I think that the paranoia might be misplaced, but I also, in terms of like people recognizing you, but I completely understand like why this would be incredibly traumatizing and why even after two years, you, you might not be ready to put yourself out there.

8:44

I hope you're in therapy.

8:46

I hope you, you have a therapist that you can talk to is I know you talking about opening up to your partner about trauma and working out, but like, I really hope there's a professional or someone that you are speaking to about this to get.

8:57

This is just like the worst.

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Like I want to validate for you that this is like the worst.

9:02

Yeah. I mean, I think like culturally, I don't know how therapy is, is viewed in Singapore and I don't know how readily available it is, but I know that a really popular book on trauma is called the body, keeps the score.

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And so I would recommend maybe just do it, you know, if therapy isn't, isn't an option doing some bibliotherapy on, on trauma.

9:24

And just like, you know, because one of the things that about trauma is like, there's a lot of physiological responses, right?

9:31

So it's not just in your mind, your body is also reacting to things.

9:34

And I think that like kind of the more knowledge that you can have about trauma responses, you know, the more you can understand what you're going through.

9:42

I think just really piggybacking off of what Gabby was saying in that, like the fact that like you have all of these fears is completely normal.

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I think you have to go at your own pace, but I also think it's really admirable that you gotten to a place where you want to try again.

9:59

I think you just need to do so in a gentle way.

10:03

And with communication, I think it can be hard in the dating world to know when to bring up this kind of stuff with a partner.

10:11

But I think that my suggestion would be to not share this with somebody until you feel relatively comfortable and safe with them.

10:19

And then also to not have a sexual relationship with anybody that you're dating until you've already talked about this, I feel like this is something that you will want to talk to somebody about before gauging and unlike anything other than kissing, just to feel safe just for them to know your backstory.

10:36

And I would under be totally understandable if you want to take things slow physically for them to understand that, that the reasoning behind this, I really feel like this is one of those things that it's great that you're talking to your friends about.

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Because I think that even though you did absolutely nothing wrong at all, these kinds of situations can lead someone to feel shame.

10:57

And a lot of times being able to talk about it more can sort of like help you work through that shame.

11:03

Because again, the thing is, is like consensual sex is a normal act.

11:08

Like what what's not normal is what he is like complete invasion of your privacy and all of that.

11:14

I just mean like, in terms of like this fear of people having seen the video or having, you know, I think that maybe working through some stuff about your feelings, about being seen as a sexual being and kind of coming to terms with like, that's not an inherently bad thing or an inherently dirty thing.

11:29

And like obviously the invasion of privacy was yeah.

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Also keeping that in mind, like, okay, so let's say somebody did see this.

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If they were to judge me based off of that, is that someone I would even want in my life, right.

11:43

Someone saw it and didn't know the backstory and they were judging you.

11:46

That's also not someone that you would want in your life.

11:49

Exactly. I want to also recommend there's a YouTuber named Chrissy chambers.

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She's part of a couple Bria and Chrissy, Chrissy went through something entirely similar.

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She had a X or a guy record her without her consent and she took the case to court and she won.

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And so you should watch Chrissy's videos about this.

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If it's not triggering for you, it might be really, really helpful.

12:12

If you look up Bria and Chrissy, they have a lot of videos about revenge porn and a lot of work that they've done on revenge porn.

12:19

Yeah. That's a, that's an interesting thing of like, what is triggering it?

12:23

What is helpful? You know? Cause like sometimes seeing that like your experience has been experienced by a bunch of other people and people that you look up to and are, you know, admire and like that they went through this, you know, and that it hasn't ruined their lives and they have been able to maintain relationships since then.

12:40

Like I think like depending on where you are in your healing, that can really be encouraging and helpful to.

12:47

Yeah. And also I want to take apart the word revenge porn, which I think has been used to sort of like couch, what happens, which is this the sexual assault, like it's just purely sexual assault call you.

12:58

Revenge porn makes it seem like it has any place next to porn as anything.

13:02

And it doesn't, it's truly like a sexual assault situation.

13:06

I completely understand why it would make you wary of guys, especially because this one, like you didn't see any red flags with like that.

13:15

He was just like a nice person.

13:17

Can I speak to men for a second?

13:20

Why? I guess my question is why?

13:22

Like what, what is the, what is the reason there, there isn't one, if you're watching this and you're hearing this and you go, well, I would never do that.

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Talk to your friends, hold your buddies accountable.

13:34

What are they up to? What are they doing?

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How did they talk about women? Stand up to them, correct them.

13:40

If you see your friend cat called, tell them to cut it out.

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If you see your friend, like sharing pictures of a girlfriend or talking about a girlfriend in a disrespectful way, tell them to stop.

13:49

Like that's on, you're in that circle.

13:52

She didn't know, but you fucking did.

13:54

And that's on you. You know?

13:56

So I think that the way that people receive information is very telling about them, right?

14:01

So like, let's say you do meet somebody, you do like them and you get to a point where you share them with them.

14:06

What happened, how they react to the information you're giving them will hopefully be revealing.

14:13

Right? So if the reaction is like, oh, that's not that big of a deal.

14:17

That's not a safe person.

14:18

Do not, you know, like, like you want to make sure that like, when you share this with somebody that they understand the significance of it, they understand the trauma that came along with it.

14:30

They understand that you're still in your healing process.

14:33

And so I think that like, it can feel really scary that like, who can I trust?

14:39

Like, and ultimately, obviously we don't know because people surprise us all the time, but there is some, some guidelines.

14:46

And I think that how the person handles the information when you give it to them is going to tell you a lot.

14:53

And so really make sure that that person is on your level with when you share it and like that they get it, that they're respectful that maybe, you know, the first few times that you are intimate with them, it's in your space, you know, where like you, you're controlling the environment, you take their phone from them.

15:10

And like, you know, like you might need to do, you might, you know, and like you want a partner that would offer you their phone.

15:17

Do you know what I mean?

15:19

Like that we'll understand that, that we'll be looking out for you looking out for ways to make you more comfortable to make you feel safe after what you've been through versus somebody who either maybe he's like, oh no, sorry.

15:32

And then like never brings it up again or never, you know, like minimize, minimizes, minimizes it.

15:37

This is going to be an ongoing conversation with whoever you date next.

15:41

And they have to be okay with that. And they should also welcome it and potentially initiate those conversations.

15:47

Yeah. Fucking what is wrong with people, dude?

15:49

I know. I'm

15:52

just also just so proud of you. I'm so proud of you that your wrote this email, that you're trying, that you're, you know, that like you feel so much sadness and discomfort all the time and you're still pushing through it.

16:04

Like it's amazing. And I, we are sending you so much love and keep us up.

16:09

You're a champion. You seem very self-aware, you're doing great.

16:14

If you want to submit your international question, send it to just between us [email protected].

16:18

That's just between us P O [email protected].

16:23

Up next, we have an amazing interview with our highly steam guests, Connor Franta.

16:26

So stay tuned. You might know emigre and clarify valid from their old podcast here to make friends They're

16:35

back with a brand new show, love to see it.

16:38

And obsessive really detailed recap podcasts about the bachelor franchise and other pop culture that makes them laugh, cry, and curse the patriarchy.

16:47

Mm. Claire can't live with these shows or without them, but they can break down every juicy moment and unpack all the weird messages.

16:54

Reality TV sends us about love, sex, and dating.

16:57

And, And this fall there'll be watching along and covering season 18 of the bachelorette with Michelle.

17:02

Yet You can listen to and follow love to see it right now on Stitcher, apple podcast, Pandora, or wherever you get your podcasts.

17:09

Love to see it, To

17:11

hear it for me this type of year usually means getting back into a busier schedule.

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18:54

Welcome back to just between us it's time for the juiciest, most scandalous controversial segment.

18:59

No, to all of podcasting Tough

19:02

questions. This week on the show, we have Connor Franta who is an internet superstar, prolific creative entrepreneur, New York times bestselling author mastermind behind his YouTube channel, which has reached over a billion streams in the past decade.

19:15

And his new book is called house fires.

19:17

Hello? Oh my goodness. That intro you did so well.

19:20

That was a lot session.

19:23

No, No.

19:25

So I, I read house fires.

19:29

That is a very raw book.

19:31

So how do you decide what you're going to put in about your personal life?

19:37

I think it just comes naturally because this is my third book.

19:39

So the way that I've written is that whatever I'm feeling within that moment, when I set myself up to write, I write about it.

19:46

It's never like a, okay, today. I'm going to sit down and write about trauma case Z.

19:51

It's more of like, this is, what's been on my mind today.

19:54

This is what I'm in the Headspace for.

19:57

And I just go for it. And then at the very end of it, if I found that what I wrote was a true depiction of that moment and that feeling in my experience to it, then why not put it in the book?

20:09

Were you ever like, oh man, this is going to be too much Often

20:13

I even have doubts now. And this is how I felt with the last one too, coming up.

20:17

But that's, I think the reason why people liked it, frankly, is they, you know, it's, I think it pushes the boundaries a little bit.

20:24

And it's something that people haven't read before, or, you know, people aren't used to people being so honest.

20:29

So I say just like, what's there to lose with being myself and telling my story.

20:33

What's The most worrisome part to you about this one?

20:38

It's, there's a lot of it.

20:42

I think to play devil's advocate to, I do have the fear that sometimes oversharing is more of me participating in the internet reward system for oversharing, you know, a video that you make that says I had a bad day is going to get twice the clicks as I had a good day.

21:03

And sometimes I think being aware of that is a difficult line to walk because it's like, okay, am I being authentic and doing what I want?

21:13

Or am I playing a game subliminally, which I'm sure you both know all about.

21:19

Definitely. And the interesting thing with a book process versus posting, you know, on YouTube or on social media is by the time the book comes out, you're pretty removed from the time when you wrote the first draft.

21:32

So what has that been like for you?

21:34

Like, you feel like a different person than when you started writing the book, do you, does that make you feel like you need to like keep changing it throughout the editing process?

21:41

Most definitely. And it's something you don't understand.

21:44

I think until you've gone through a process, like it even just rereading the final draft, I'm like, oh, I really wish I could have added this.

21:51

Or now that I have an extra year since I've written this or an extra two years, in some cases, it's like, oh, I have a whole new take on this.

21:59

It doesn't mean this is inauthentic, but it means I could have added more to the story in a way.

22:04

So I think you just need to release that control and let it be what it is.

22:10

Nothing will ever be perfect.

22:12

Nothing is ever going to be an exact well-rounded story.

22:16

There's always something that you can add to it.

22:19

Essentially. This book also has a lot of stuff about dating where you tubers we're part of a similar like era of that stuff.

22:26

I've had things where people have connected the dots to who I'm dating, things like that, blah, blah, blah.

22:31

So like, how do you judge, like, what do I talk about?

22:34

What do I not talk about in terms of other people?

22:36

Let's say, like, even the, the story that you told about sexual harassment, like how do you cover your bases or do you not care?

22:43

You're like, you know what? You did this, so deal with the consequences, dude.

22:47

Yeah. I think it's different for each, you know, scenario I know for, for dating and for bringing, I mean, just in general, bringing other people into it.

22:55

I mean, if you notice, I don't, I don't really do collaborations anymore.

22:58

My Instagram rarely features anyone, but myself.

23:00

I've gotten to a place where I know that I'm accepting of the burden of putting yourself out there and putting your story out there.

23:09

But I don't think sometimes other people are aware of it.

23:12

So I just think it's better to keep it just to myself.

23:15

I don't put my family and much, I don't put relationships in much.

23:19

You know, you may be able to figure out if I'm in one or if I'm not in one, I may allude to being in love or not, but I'm never like a relationship channel, never a relationship account.

23:28

So, I mean, I guess the same goes for any story that I depict in the book.

23:32

A lot of it has people that I've had experiences with, but it's at the end of the day, never really about them.

23:39

It's more about how it affected me.

23:41

So I think I can tell the story without giving away their identity and still do it justice.

23:46

Yeah. We're Touching on this, but you know, I think one of the things we really wanted to talk to you about it is like when you make your money off of your life and off of your personal experience and what is that like for you?

23:59

You know, like I know for us, it's, it's been true.

24:02

Oh, I was talking about this on a different podcast, but it's, it's really interesting to be a veteran in this medium because we've seen through the highs and the lows in the beginning.

24:12

I didn't even know you can make money on YouTube on the internet.

24:15

I mean like a year ago, most people didn't even know it's still the amount of times I go home and someone's like, you make money on the internet.

24:21

How do you do that? And I'm like, it's 20, 21.

24:25

Ma'am welcome.

24:27

But it's like a complex thing where if you identify as an artist or if you identify as someone who's in the arts, you never really want to rely on money to force you to be creative.

24:40

And yet here we are in an industry where you have to do that.

24:43

The older you get, the more relaxed you want to be, the more established you want to be.

24:48

You do need to make money and you need to figure out ways how to do it.

24:51

So it's a complex system.

24:53

I know for me, I think I've been wise with larger deals that I've gotten over the past decade, where that I can pass on a lot of the more frequent, smaller ones.

25:03

So although it made look like I don't do as many like high profile deals, I've done enough where it's going to keep guiding me to the next one in a way, if that makes sense, versus like taking tons of small ones, I take a bunch of big ones.

25:20

You mean for branded deals, Specifically branded deals, partnerships, opportunities, really kind of, any of it, remember vessel?

25:27

I don't remember vessel. You don't remember Vessel

25:30

vessel was the YouTube competitor, like six years ago that came out and they had like tons of money and they were offering people tons of money.

25:39

And it was either like, are you going to go to it or are you going to not?

25:41

I went to it and I'm still here. Oh

25:45

my God, this is giving me quippy vibes.

25:48

Ah, I would have accepted that Quimbee money.

25:50

Can they bring it back? Yeah.

25:53

I'm like, give me the money. Do you have the money?

25:55

Are you paying me out now that my show's not on what's going on?

25:59

It's like YouTube or boxing. It's like, I want that paycheck ahead of time please.

26:04

Jake Paul, tell us Here. I mean, I think everyone on the internet knows that I could easily be Jake Paul in a fight.

26:10

Like clearly I am stronger.

26:12

Clearly I am more masculine because that matters.

26:16

And I just really think he's intimidated by me.

26:19

So it's a shame that he won't fight me.

26:24

What are the things that's been really interesting about your career is that you, you haven't limited it to just online, like you have done like various business ventures.

26:33

What drove you to do that?

26:35

Do you feel like that's your main passion and the online stuff is what allows you to do that?

26:40

Is it more just like a side thing? Like how do you approach all of that?

26:43

I think it was kind of a, you know, a nice side effect of what happened.

26:47

I never started. I mean, again, frankly, I never started making YouTube videos to make any money.

26:53

It wasn't even an option. I remember when I got opted into the partner program, because that was a thing and I was so excited.

26:59

I'm like, wait a minute, you can make money off this.

27:02

I've been doing it for three years and making nothing Like

27:05

a teenager. Right. I was 17 when I first started and I was an avid YouTube viewer from eighth grade on.

27:11

So it's been a part of my entire teenage years, my entire young adult life.

27:18

So I've again, I've seen it through the beginning stages.

27:21

Like my first VidCon I went to, I was a fan, my second one, I was one of the top creators.

27:25

Like I know it was such like a strange thing to know both sides of it.

27:32

I feel like I can always put myself in a lot of different people's shoes because I've been able to see a lot of the doors and walk through.

27:40

Was it like, okay, now that I have these videos and now that I've like shared myself, I can start these other businesses.

27:45

Yeah. And that was, I mean, I was in college for two years and I was studying entrepreneurship and just business, vaguely business and art.

27:52

And I think that it was a natural passion of mine to find a way to be creative and create a business around it.

27:59

I dropped out. So frankly, mama doesn't have the credentials to do so, but she tried.

28:04

So I think it was just the natural thing that I always heard, you know, diversify, diversify, your funds, diversify your business, have multiple streams of income, have multiple lanes to lean into when you're in this industry, in case one falls out beneath you, you have another to go to and I've always found that that's a way that I stay creative in general.

28:24

If I, if I don't want to focus on the music, I go over to the YouTube videos.

28:28

I don't wanna focus on the YouTube videos. I go over to photography and I keep jumping between them.

28:33

And they all kind of inform the other as well.

28:36

An idea from Milan will spark an idea and the other You

28:39

want to do non-fiction writing or like essay writing when me and Alison first started.

28:44

And we were talking about book deals with people, Alison sort of pushed for us to do fiction because I think a lot of the people we met with wanted us to do a YouTuber book, not necessarily essays that are substantial like yours, but do you know?

29:01

You know what I mean? When I'm talking about like an urban Outfitters table, like YouTube or book and Alison in particular pushed back on that, I did, I have no memory of you.

29:09

Did. You were like, we're not, you were like, we're not doing that.

29:12

Like we are writing novels. Like we are not doing that.

29:15

I mean, it's that kind of the thing, like, did you have to go like, no, I want to write these essays or, or is it like, oh, these essays are what we'll do well, cause people want to know about me.

29:23

It's this weird thing. I, yeah, I think initially there wasn't too much thought in it because I was kind of one of the experiments of the YouTube or book experience in the beginning where it was like, oh, the book industry would like to make YouTube or books.

29:37

And I got offered a deal before I even knew that I necessarily wanted to participate in it.

29:42

And then I thought, you know, I have always been good at writing essays.

29:45

I have always enjoyed writing. I found it very therapeutic, so let's give it a go.

29:50

And the first time around, it was very surface level.

29:53

It was very backstory, you know, truly an authentic memoir, even though I was 21 years old at the time, but Hey, that's like a fourth to a third of a normal life.

30:02

So I'm like, you know what, there's a story to tell. But after that I realized that I really did enjoy it.

30:08

And for the second one I wanted to fully lean in.

30:10

I wanted to fully develop it. And that's what led me to the third.

30:14

But to answer your question, I do think about fiction often after I've told my story and I do enjoy the medium, you know, what else is there?

30:22

I'm not going to keep trying to find more stories to tell.

30:25

I think it's, As you get older, there'll be more, there's tons of people that do that True.

30:30

But I think in the meantime, it's like, well, let's lean on fiction.

30:33

It's kind of like, I mean, not to compare myself to Taylor swift, but her most recent album, a lot of it was fictional.

30:39

And she said, I'm just kind of sick of writing about my own life, but I know that I can write from fiction.

30:43

So I kind of leaned into that.

30:46

Cause some of the poetry in both the last and the current book is, you know, fictionalized, there's a little bit of like a fantastical element added into it that it's not 100% exactly what happened.

30:58

It's a little bit more and I think that's fun.

31:01

I don't think everything has to be reality for it to be enjoyable.

31:05

And you're profiting off your life.

31:07

I mean, do you feel like, okay, I got to go out and do stuff that I can write about.

31:10

I can make videos about If

31:13

there was a camera in my house, you know, that would be so wrong or there's a camera by, but if there was like a, like a nest camera up in the corner, it's just, I'm just doing the same thing everyday and like a little hamster on a wheel.

31:23

I think the longer I've been in this lane, in this medium, the more I just, you know, I don't think about it too hard.

31:31

I'm not trying to be something I'm not, I don't know how people do it.

31:35

I listened to some podcasts and every week it's like new, big story.

31:39

It's like we were, we saw someone doing a drug deal and there was a gun polled.

31:43

Oh The story times.

31:45

But Like real ones where I actually know it's to a certain extent authentic, but I'm like, I don't know.

31:51

I went to CVS and there was someone like mumbling to themselves.

31:54

It's kind of weird, but there's not a lot.

31:56

I have insight, but I don't have a lot of strange experiences that happened to me.

32:04

Yeah. I mean, that's a big part of the, you know, the double-edged sword of like minding your own life is I feel that fear of like, but nothing's happening or like, oh, I only have things to write about when like I'm experiencing trauma and I don't want to be constantly experiencing trauma.

32:21

No, I have, I have had a lot of people ask me about they're like, so you write a lot about the bad times.

32:25

And I'm like, I don't know. Those are the times that are the most emotional and the most memorable.

32:29

So I just inherently feel like I do need to figure my way out through those and write about them and decipher the meaning through them.

32:38

I mean, it's the same reason why sad love songs always get played on the radio.

32:41

It's because they're the most monumental moments in some people's lives and they can write about them endlessly.

32:49

Yeah. We have a negativity bias as humans.

32:51

We just like our, our minds pay more attention to negative things for sure.

32:55

Which I think was originally for survival and is now just a nightmare, you know?

33:02

But I think it's really interesting what you're talking about in terms of like working through things through your writing.

33:06

I was talking to a therapist about my next book idea and she was sort of like, are you in a place to sort of like write about that?

33:14

You know? And I was like, actually for me, a lot of times writing about this stuff, even though I know it will be for public consumption is sort of the same as like when people journal, like it like kind of like helps me work through it personally.

33:27

Do you feel that way with your stuff?

33:29

Oh, definitely. I mean, it helps me work through it, but I also just think like, what else is there to life than being honest and being true to yourself.

33:36

And what's the worst that could happen is you being honest and true and someone's going to use it against you in some way.

33:42

That sounds like they're the bad person.

33:44

Not you're the bad person for sharing it.

33:46

And with anything, like, I connect more with people through the harder parts of my life or have empathy for other people through their most difficult, vulnerable moments.

33:56

So I just think that there's nothing but a good thing there if you're willing to share it.

34:01

Yeah. I mean, it depends like, you know, I think like sometimes I get frustrated with people going back into the back catalog of YouTube stuff and then thinking that that's me.

34:11

So then how do you feel about like digging up if you don't like how people go and dig up, like past emotions, what do you think about digging up past mistakes?

34:19

Depends on if the person's like acknowledged and apologized before.

34:22

I think sometimes people don't, they search for that, but they don't search for if the person ever acknowledged it.

34:28

So then they go and they never acknowledged it.

34:31

And I'm like, let me ask you a question. Did you search for if they've acknowledged it?

34:34

Did you look for that part? No, of course not because that's not fun.

34:38

Yeah. It's difficult. Cause then I'm like, at what point is sorry, enough or not enough?

34:43

Like at what point are we, what's the gradient here?

34:46

What's the scale someone did X, Y, and Z.

34:48

Therefore they need three apologies to qualify to be actually sorry.

34:52

And I do, I do wonder because I also, I mean, I see myself participating in it too where I'm like, I would never support them again.

34:58

I'm like, wait, why, why would I not do that Orange?

35:01

It's more complicated. I just did a whole episode of my other show, bad with money, all about this actually.

35:06

And about the ways that social media benefits from that, right.

35:09

Especially I see on YouTube, like YouTube feeds itself.

35:12

So like someone will do something then they'll someone who's a drama channel or like a gossip channel will then be like, oh great.

35:20

That's material for me to then make another gossip video.

35:23

This person must be stopped.

35:24

You know? And then that video feeds more videos.

35:26

And like that whole like ecosystem of YouTube where it's like Connor Franta said this in 2014, let's let's make him the thumbnail.

35:34

You know what I Mean? Me?

35:37

Yeah, no, It's

35:39

like a toxic cycle, the cycle, or even like, you know, I've seen like you had a video that I saw that I really liked where it was.

35:47

You like looking back at your straight videos, Do you think those were like offensive or it was just like silly that you, you were so insistent?

35:57

Honestly, I was really surprised that more people didn't find them offensive because not like trying to counsel myself, but I don't, I don't like that.

36:05

I participated in those trends.

36:06

Can you explain what the videos were?

36:09

So some of the videos that I made at the time, and again, there, there are levels to this.

36:14

There are layers. So this isn't a video I made a year ago.

36:16

It's a video I made like eight years ago. And there were at the time, again, this is a hard thing for some people to wrap their minds around.

36:22

So there was a time in YouTube where you could type in a title and no one had made that video there that does not exist anymore.

36:30

Every video ever has been made.

36:33

So at the time you could type in things like 10 different pillows designs and no one would have had, have made that video.

36:40

So at the time as a high school boy, as a fucking idiot, I made videos that were like 10 things guys like about girls and things guys hate about girls.

36:52

And that is so disgusting.

36:55

It is not okay.

36:58

It isn't me participating in the patriarchy.

37:01

It is me not being an authentic feminist.

37:04

Granted I was a 20 year old boy.

37:06

So it makes total sense. But I don't like that at the time.

37:09

I may have had an influence on younger people, you know, younger women, younger, anybody, anybody, and gave them some sort of invalidation or validation in something that wasn't authentic or true.

37:23

So me watching these videos, I had the back of my mind thinking, ah, what a canceled me for this?

37:29

This is cancelable. I can't believe I did this.

37:32

This is horrible. So it was honestly like beyond the element of me being, you know, straight on camera, quote, unquote, it was more of like, damn, I really participated in a part of society that now as an educated man, I dunno what you want to call me as an educated adult.

37:50

I guess I would never participate in.

37:53

I despise, We

37:55

were like trying to seem straight, which is like a caricature of a straight man.

38:02

But I wasn't trying, because at the time I honestly thought I was straight, which is the sadder part.

38:07

You were like, this is what straight men too.

38:09

I'm a Robot. Well, actually, no.

38:11

So I was trying to be straight, but also I was like, oh, this is cliquey.

38:14

This will get views. I was like, I'm a genius.

38:17

I'm a genius.

38:19

Do you keep Those

38:21

videos up? Or do you delete them? Some

38:23

of them I've put on private only because I just don't want any new person to see that.

38:28

And then think that there's authenticity there.

38:30

But I'm also not like going through every video, looking for something to take down because I might not enjoy it.

38:38

I know I've never done anything like horrible online, but there are things that I wouldn't do in present day that, you know, maybe are worth privateering maybe are not.

38:48

But I feel like part of what's cool about sharing your life with people is then people getting to see your growth and getting to see that you can change.

38:56

And so it's sort of like, oh, okay, like they've grown this way.

38:59

Maybe I can grow that way too. If

39:01

only the internet was, I was going to say only they were forgiving about, But

39:08

would they let us include banners on YouTube videos that say, this is not me now, this is not me.

39:14

I do not agree with this. Every

39:16

title two inferences.

39:17

This is not me now Insert

39:19

ukulele music now.

39:23

Yeah, there has been some nice stuff where I thought people were going to react that way.

39:27

And then like when I came out as non binary, like on July 5th and I thought people are going to be annoyed because my fan base is largely bisexual, CIS women.

39:36

And it ended up a bunch of people were like, no, I've been following your growth.

39:41

And like I'm non binary now probably a lot of the people that don't feel like a lot of the boys that were like watching your videos being like, yeah.

39:49

Or like I'm gay, Honestly

39:51

the most. So first of all, congratulations, that's an amazing next step to say.

39:55

And second of all, yeah, I, I like most people during the pandemic, I joined tech talk and most of my videos were just like, hi, if you remember this face, that means you're gay now by, and that's just the tech talk like 3 million views.

40:09

All the comments are like, how did you now Growth

40:13

that's called growth. What

40:15

are the things that I find tricky about having so many different streams of income and like doing so many different things is like kind of this like inability to sort of like see past six months from now, like how do you approach your career?

40:28

Like, do you have like the way like a five-year plan and other careers people do, or do you kind of take it more like month by month, year by year?

40:35

It's tough. I mean, I'd be lying if I didn't say I'm stressed about money all the time.

40:39

Like a randomly be like a heat flash of like, do I have enough?

40:42

Am I doing enough? Should I be doing more?

40:45

Like it's it's I, it like hits you at random times.

40:48

Never at the time. You'd think it would. And then I call myself down.

40:51

But no, I mean, honestly I'm always looking for opportunity.

40:55

I think the search is the most important part.

40:57

So I'm always eagerly asking, you know, my management, my agent for opportunities, I'm sending them ideas to work with.

41:04

I'm sending them a new interests that I have.

41:06

And I think that that's in, I guess our industry is a major part of it is seeking out the opportunity because a lot of the times it won't come to you.

41:14

And in terms of planning, honestly, not a whole lot of it.

41:20

It's like I plan the week ahead and sometimes the month ahead, but it's six months is really hard in terms of like keeping up with YouTube content and trends.

41:30

And most of the things I do now are very by podcasts that I have.

41:34

It's like, whatever happened that week, the YouTube video that I do, it could totally change based upon what happened that week as well.

41:41

So it's kind of hard to really plan out in this industry that we're in The

41:48

idea of like making content when you're like 50 appealed to you, Freak

41:52

you out. Traumatizing, absolutely traumatizing.

41:54

Even as a 29 year old. Sometimes again, I'll be like, ah, what am I doing?

41:58

But we'll figure it out as we get there.

42:03

Yeah. My friend Jackie had merged that for her podcast called Nach Butte.

42:07

And it's just a mug that says over 30 Nisha influencer and I have it on hold it all the time.

42:12

Like this is me over 30 Nisha influencer.

42:15

Hello, Very

42:17

Jenna marbles. Very

42:18

gentleman leave, just leave I say from my podcast, I

42:25

know. And I'm also like, but come back, we need you.

42:28

That was like, I love John. And that was like a stab in the heart.

42:30

Cause I was like, oh, one of the best ones, like one of the only good one.

42:35

I mean, not all of us will be gone. You know, won't be on it at some point, but then what will we be doing?

42:40

That's what's so scary. It

42:43

depends. It depends if you play the cards, right. Are you investing in NFTs?

42:45

You got a Bitcoin. I

42:49

was like with you, I was like, I am investing.

42:51

And then you said NFTs and I went, Nope.

42:54

Nope. It's the future. No, yeah, no, I'm I'm the same way.

42:58

I mean, I think from like, if I'm taking off my comedian hat, it's like, yeah, I'm, I've been really good at paying my taxes.

43:05

I've been really good at putting my money into future, into my future retirement fund.

43:11

I've been really good at investing my money in safe bets.

43:15

And I think I'm fortunate enough to have gotten into this as, you know, a 17, 18 year old and beyond, because if it was before that, I don't know if I would have been at a point in my life where I understood that you, that this is temporary.

43:28

Oh, you mean when You were 13 Versus

43:31

17? I know, I knew plenty of 13 year olds that got into this.

43:34

I'm like, whoa, I don't envy it.

43:37

Well, they always forget to pay taxes.

43:39

It's always like a, some influencer who does 21 goes viral makes a shit ton of money and then is like confused on April 15th.

43:47

One, Forget as a kind word.

43:49

I think intentionally ignore.

43:53

Yeah. That's the biggest, anytime somebody like is like, what, what advice do you have now that I've got this?

43:59

I'm like put money aside for taxes, please.

44:01

Please do. I can't believe it sometimes.

44:03

Or like don't buy the entire fall collection of Gucci.

44:07

You idiot. Yes,

44:09

don't do that. I bought Gucci boots and then I thought I was going to be so suave about it.

44:14

I like showed up to hang out with a group of friends and I was like, not that I was like wearing them normal first thing out of my friend's mouth.

44:21

Oh, look at you.

44:23

Oh, well, well, well filming them being like, oh, excuse me.

44:28

I was like, cut guys. These were, I get it.

44:33

Like, I was like, you know what? This, this mockery for being nouveau riche makes sense.

44:37

And I appreciate it. You gotta keep me humble.

44:39

So I'm Totally,

44:41

totally. Yeah, no, it's be wise with it.

44:44

Be smart with it. Obviously you can have fun with your money, but like, you know, it goes quicker than you think And

44:49

have people around who are, are not gonna like inflate.

44:52

You be like, you're being a bougie right now.

44:57

A hundred percent. I think I'm so glad I grew up as a, a Minnesotan.

45:01

And I'm, I'm really glad that I still have my Midwestern family and friends because they keep me very humble and very grounded.

45:08

There's no way I could wear Gucci around them.

45:10

They would look at it and be like, oh, are those from target?

45:13

They'd have no idea.

45:14

There's no point. Why would I do it?

45:18

I guess that's like maybe my final question before we move on to hypothetical's is, you know, you're very successful.

45:22

You've built this amazing career, but do people outside of the internet take it seriously.

45:28

It depends upon the person. I do go to many, a Thanksgiving or many at Christmas and unnamed aunts or uncles just to get on my last fucking nerve.

45:38

They got on my absolute last nerve.

45:42

Some of them have still just like, are you still doing that thing?

45:45

And he's still doing that thing breeder and you still doing that thing.

45:50

Like, Are you still doing that thing?

45:52

Be working in accountants?

45:55

Yeah. Which again, like no shame to that, unless you shame me for it.

45:59

That machine be right back. So yeah. Some, some people don't get it.

46:02

And frankly, at this point within it, I just feel sorry for them because it's a universally understood real career path to do truly anything on the internet books.

46:15

Yes. And I think that opportunities like writing books and having them be New York times bestsellers, that is what becomes real to a lot of people who don't understand it.

46:26

It's like, oh, I don't get your YouTube videos, but you spent 16 weeks on the New York times bestselling list work.

46:33

You can't deny that. That's like, I can't deny it.

46:35

That's cool. That's amazing. Can't believe it.

46:38

You know, those are old school markers of success and people are having a harder time adapting, newer markers of success.

46:45

Definitely. What would you Like to play a game show please?

46:50

Okay. And this game show hypotheticals.

46:52

You have your mic contestants.

46:54

I mean, to give you a series of hypothetical situations, you can ask any clarifying questions you might have.

46:59

And then I, you tell me what you would do.

47:02

And then I just decide who's answer.

47:04

I like more. Oh, okay.

47:06

Yay. It's so fair.

47:08

It's such a strict fair game, you know?

47:15

Okay. So our first game is America's favorite game show.

47:18

Would you stay with this cheater?

47:20

You find out that your partner of 27 years left their number on a restaurant receipt, just to see if the cute waiter would call them.

47:30

You find out when you answer your partner's phone and it's the waiter.

47:33

When did you stay with this aspiring cheater?

47:37

27 years. I don't like that element because this makes it difficult.

47:42

Exactly. Did the person who called identify themselves as hi, it's me Ian.

47:48

The waiter from it was at first time calling.

47:51

Yeah. This. So they said, aye, Hey, it's the waiter from little sunshine shop.

47:55

That's the name of the restaurant?

47:58

It was a very silver like Vegan

48:01

restaurant. I wasn't at the dinner where they did that.

48:04

No. And was, is the waiter cute?

48:06

Yeah, but your partner assures you.

48:09

They weren't actually going to do anything. They just wanted to see if they still had it.

48:13

And if the waiter would call, My trust is down.

48:15

I don't believe a word. You're saying, Todd, This

48:19

is my question. This can't be the first time they've done that.

48:23

It would be. But also, no, God, this is difficult.

48:26

Here's the deal. Here's what I would really do.

48:28

Here's not the funny answer. I would sit them down.

48:31

I would yell at them. I would scream at them.

48:33

I'd be angry. I'd be like, what are you doing?

48:34

You can't do this. You can do this.

48:37

Maybe when I'm around at the table. And then think it's funny, but not behind my back for all.

48:42

We been through 27 years, Todd, we have two chihuahuas.

48:47

Exactly. Why did I pick up their phone?

48:50

Because they were in the shower and they were like, can you get it?

48:55

What day of the week was it? What's

48:59

my job. You're a 50 year old influencer.

49:02

No, no, Just

49:07

go to the grave. And What's their job.

49:09

They own a for-profit library.

49:14

I don't either, but it doesn't sound profitable.

49:18

A bookstore And library is a bookstore.

49:23

No, but this is a different thing because you have to return the book.

49:27

So you pay for it. You know what I mean? To keep It

49:29

that's called like renting a DVD.

49:32

You pay for a monthly subscription to this for-profit library.

49:36

And then you can rent out as many books as you want, but you have to return them.

49:42

Isn't this just a library.

49:43

You don't pay anything at a library.

49:45

You're Right. I'm still pissed at Todd.

49:48

Yeah. I think I would leave really Connor.

49:53

I think again, after screaming, after depicting our chihuahuas and all the time that we've spent together, I would ultimately wait for his response and probably not leave because nothing technically happened.

50:07

But you better believe we're going to be in therapy the next day therapy immediately because it's that trust?

50:13

That would traumatize me. Yeah.

50:16

Well, unfortunately the waiter was your partner soulmate and they ended up going to little sunshine shop every day for a year.

50:24

As they slowly, slowly fall in love.

50:26

What about me? You're too busy making YouTube videos, Neglect.

50:34

I didn't. When you said 50 year old influencer, I know 50 is not old, but then Connor said to the grave and then I had the stupidest vision of a tombstone that said Storytime, I'm dead.

50:44

It's like an episode of SpongeBob. Our

50:48

next game is this a date?

50:51

Your mother really wants you to meet someone because you are new to the big city.

50:56

They try to set you up on a date with their friend's kid, who is your age.

51:00

And also single. You refuse your mom then convinces you to meet her friend's kid for coffee as just friends.

51:08

It wouldn't be a date at all.

51:10

She promises. Is this still a date?

51:16

Mm mm.

51:18

I just keep thinking that like both of us may be in the same head space of like, we don't know each other.

51:27

So potato Patato here.

51:29

Like this is what is a date.

51:31

Really? Yeah. Is her mom lying to her?

51:34

You know, like her mom's like, no, you're just hanging out as friends.

51:39

Like both of our moms are like behind the scenes being like, just lied.

51:43

And like, you could start the date off with like a firm handshake of like lovely to make this business acquaintance.

51:48

And then it's not a date. They're

51:52

the most attractive person you've ever seen in your entire life.

51:56

Oh, then as a date, suddenly A

52:00

little sunshine shop palace. Does the waiter steal my, my beloved.

52:07

I was just going to say, and then you sit down and you're your have the memory of your beloved being stolen and then you cry the whole date, the Date,

52:15

it's a date. No

52:17

but your ex is there because they're now with dating that waiter.

52:20

Oh No.

52:22

Good. You're showing up with the hottest person in existence.

52:26

Right? Right. So it looks like you've moved on.

52:29

Well, you would have really moved on. Cause you should stop going to that restaurant.

52:35

You know, they worked there. I

52:37

also just pictured like you being like, oh yeah, sorry.

52:40

I'm here with this person or whatever.

52:41

And then like that person just yells to your ex and the waiter.

52:44

Like this is not a day. Look like a fool.

52:49

It's just friends.

52:52

Horrible. It's been a really embarrassing week for me.

52:55

Yeah. If they're wild, they attract it.

52:57

Why not make it a date? Why not? That's

53:00

a great philosophy for life. Yeah.

53:02

Okay. I final game. Are you a terrible parent?

53:06

Your child seven hates wearing sunblock, but they have to go to a friend's pool party instead of forcing them to wear sunblock.

53:14

You buy them What

53:18

Alison what?

53:22

Instead of forcing them to wear sunblock, you buy them a sun protected suit that covers every part of their body, except for holes in their mouth and eyes.

53:32

They get made fun of at the party.

53:35

And one kid runs away screaming in terror For

53:42

visual reference. I'm thinking of American horror story.

53:45

Season one, if you know the reference, you know the reference, if you don't, I feel sorry for you Leatherman

53:50

and that, but there's aisles and a mouth hole.

53:56

Yeah. No nose hole that looks terrifying that he looks like the Zodiac killer.

54:02

I don't like to wear sunblock, which I know is a weird, I think the texture is gross.

54:06

I hate sunblock. I hate it.

54:08

But I, and my kid sees the suit, puts it on and says, this is good for me to attend this thing.

54:16

Well, they say, I don't want to wear it.

54:18

And you say, well, then you have to put on sunblock. And then they pick the suit.

54:20

Where did you get the suit at?

54:24

Sun protector, suit.com.

54:27

Whoa, thriving business buyers today.

54:30

Do they have different colors or is it always, or is it always black and kinky Black?

54:36

No, it's not black. It's bright orange.

54:38

Oh, that's fun.

54:40

Thank You. Very festive.

54:45

It's giving me carnival. It's giving It's giving me.

54:53

Oh my God. No, no. They painted their hair green and the ponytail sticks out.

54:57

There's a, there's a fourth hole, But

55:00

category Halloween, their eyes are blackened out.

55:06

So looks like Jacqueline. No,

55:10

no. It's actually really, really funny. I'd be like, they are a horrible parent.

55:14

Don't put your kid in this traumatic situation, but now it's funny, You

55:19

know, I'm going to say you're a good parent. Ooh.

55:21

How come let's have fun?

55:26

I know that's. I mean, that's partially what I'm thinking.

55:28

Especially you want hooked me on the good parent thing was the fact that you said sunblock or this pumpkin soup and they chose the pumpkin suit.

55:36

I would have been like, you're a dumb kid.

55:39

You chose this. I

55:43

wouldn't be like this kid has an eye for avant-garde fashion.

55:47

Oh, a lady got, got a lady Gaga, but everybody made fun of them at the party.

55:53

Yeah. One kid ran away screaming and crying.

55:55

Well that kid's a pussy ever seen art Trevor.

56:02

I would give them a pep talk ahead of time. Now, listen, kids are going to make fun of you and you have to punch back.

56:07

Not, not physically with your words, You

56:11

met a Stratton to that party, bitch. You better work.

56:14

All right, neither of you are allowed to be parents.

56:20

The first time I've been told that You

56:23

so much for joining us, where can people find all the many Things you do as well as your new book pre-order or buy my new book?

56:30

Connor Franta books.com. Once it's out.

56:33

After October 19th, it'll be a target.

56:35

It will be in Barnes and noble. It'll be on Amazon.

56:38

It'll be in books, a million everywhere, a baby she's global and the audio book is on audible as well.

56:43

Everything else is just Connor Franta. I'm lucky.

56:45

I got Connor France on every social platform.

56:47

Hit a boy up. Sun protector, suit.com/connor Franta For your chance to get 10% off today, that's sun protector suit.com/connor Franta.

57:02

Thanks for having me Stick around.

57:04

After the break, we'll be talking all about sibling dynamics.

57:09

This podcast is sponsored by better help.

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1:00:31

Welcome back to just between us. It's X, X,

1:00:34

X, X, X, X, X, X, baby, Baby.

1:00:39

Boom. Melissa's

1:00:42

joining us Every

1:00:46

week. I asked Melissa if she wants to join us for topics and one out of eight times, she says, yes, Well

1:00:53

you're in for a treat. So

1:00:56

you want to start? What's your sibling dynamic.

1:00:58

What's happening? I have two sisters.

1:01:00

I'm the oldest, my middle sister is 22 months younger than me.

1:01:07

You're not quite Irish twins. Yes.

1:01:09

Yes. So I always wonder with school years, was she two years behind you in school or one?

1:01:15

She's two years behind, but she was born the year after me and then my other sister is six years younger than me.

1:01:23

I'm the oldest. And how do you find that?

1:01:25

I love it because I am in charge.

1:01:28

I was left in charge a lot as a child.

1:01:30

I got to be responsible and tell them what to do.

1:01:34

So it was great for me. Yeah.

1:01:36

I mean, I picked this topic because I actually had my sister on my Patrion talking about sibling dynamics because I got really sick with OCD when I was four.

1:01:46

And the story has always sort of been through my point of view, but like, you know, you're nine years old, she's five years older than me.

1:01:52

And like suddenly your sibling is like really sick and like that changes your life and like the dynamics of the family.

1:01:57

And it was sort of like the first time that we had ever really talked about that.

1:02:02

And she was saying a lot of really interesting things about, you know, she has two daughters and just seeing the difference between younger siblings and older siblings and that like for younger siblings, like as the youngest one, like your older siblings matter a lot in a way that I don't know if younger siblings mattered.

1:02:20

Like, do you feel Melissa?

1:02:24

Like your sisters have like, always looked up to you and like wanted your approval in this way that like maybe is it mutual?

1:02:30

Yes. They always looked up to me one of my approval, especially the youngest one.

1:02:34

I always like treat her like she's my little baby.

1:02:37

She also works for me too.

1:02:39

So that's interesting. So

1:02:41

shout out to melody. What

1:02:44

has it been like to actually be her boss?

1:02:47

What, actually it's not that different from when I would boss her around as a kid.

1:02:51

Well, I have disagreements about work and it doesn't bleed into our sister stuff.

1:03:00

Yeah. But I know that with my middle sister, that would not be the case because she and I are constantly fighting.

1:03:06

So Alison's the youngest, Melissa is the oldest I'm middle child, which I think we could have guessed from how much I'm screaming for someone to pay attention to me at all times.

1:03:19

My sister's four years younger than me.

1:03:21

My oldest brother was 15 years older than me.

1:03:25

And then my new brother who we found out about in 2017 is 12 years older than me, I think.

1:03:34

Yeah. So basically me and my sister are from my mom and we grew up together like together all the time.

1:03:39

And then my oldest brothers from my dad's first wife.

1:03:43

So he, he was around when I was growing up from like ages one to seven, he was there and then he left and moved to New York and stuff.

1:03:54

And then, so he didn't really have a relationship with my little sister at all because they're 18 years apart.

1:03:58

I mean, they never got along. Now me and her are strange from him, but he and I used to get along.

1:04:04

Now. They never got along. They had nothing in common.

1:04:07

They had nothing to talk about. They had totally different lives.

1:04:09

And he always like was just very like misunderstanding of her because Cheyenne, you know, she's an interesting person and we love each other very much.

1:04:20

I think there was some misguided parenting in terms of like I was telling Molly yesterday that my mom would like put me and my sister together and be like, you are all, each other has so stop fighting.

1:04:32

You are all, each other has.

1:04:34

And that was like a big reframe, which I think created codependency that lasts until this day.

1:04:39

And I do like Melissa feel like I was Cheyanne's parent.

1:04:43

I don't know that I feel the same that Melissa does.

1:04:46

I don't think it was a good thing. I

1:04:48

never felt like my sister was my parent ever.

1:04:51

Yeah. See, I think that's normal Because

1:04:53

she just wasn't really interested in me.

1:04:55

And it's been really interesting that we like didn't have this relationship at all growing up really.

1:05:04

And then like, I don't think she really spoke to me from ages like 11 to 17.

1:05:09

Really? Yeah. Cheyenne and I had no relationship when I, she was in high school and I was in college.

1:05:13

We were not friends. Me And Melanie fought all the time when we were younger and we didn't become friends until I went to college.

1:05:22

Yes. I feel like this thing that like, we don't think about enough with sibling dynamics is that like, they, they will change like, you know, especially with like age differences and like being in different stages.

1:05:30

It can like, you can feel like, oh, I will never have this relationship.

1:05:34

Like my mom thought we would never have a relationship, but now we do.

1:05:37

And Jocelyn was saying, you know, we're just like incredibly different people, but she was like, but we like made the choice to have the relationship.

1:05:44

Yeah, definitely.

1:05:46

And I hadn't really thought of it that way where like, yeah, like we both just were like, if we were regular people who met, would we be friends?

1:05:53

No, but like we're sisters and therefore we're putting in the time and the effort.

1:05:58

And I mean, I genuinely loved being around her and love her company, but we are just like incredibly different.

1:06:04

And the only reason we would ever be at the same room is because we're Right.

1:06:09

Yeah. Me and Cheyenne are very different.

1:06:10

I don't know that we would be friends if we just met.

1:06:14

Cause I don't know that we would have that much in common, but it is nice to have someone where I can go, like mom's being insane.

1:06:24

Right. And then, or like, or like memories of things where you're being kind of Gaslight and they're like, that didn't happen.

1:06:29

And then Cheyenne can be like, yes it did.

1:06:32

Yeah. Which is great. But we also do have very different memories of events.

1:06:36

She has a much closer relationship to my parents that I do.

1:06:40

So there is kind of, sometimes it's not as much like me and her versus them as the three of them versus me, which I'm glad I was talking to her about this the other day.

1:06:52

I'm like, look, you don't have to have the same relationship to mom and dad that I do.

1:06:55

If you have a closer relationship with them, like have that like that, you don't have to like temper that on my behalf, but it is very different.

1:07:03

Yeah. And my favorite things I, I learned in one of my family therapy classes was no two siblings had the same parents.

1:07:11

Yeah. I agree with that. 100%, you Have

1:07:14

totally different relationships with your parents.

1:07:16

And it's so weird because you're growing up in the same house.

1:07:18

Did you think it would be the same, but it's not no Parent

1:07:22

different. How did you see your parents parent different Melissa?

1:07:25

Did they get like more lenient as they had more kids?

1:07:28

Yes. Swelling up, more lenient with Melanie than they were with me and Megan.

1:07:34

But like, even with me and Megan, I got more, even though she's not that much younger than me, I got way more responsibilities than she did.

1:07:43

I think because my dad was an addict and alcoholic when we were growing up and Cheyenne got the brunt of that, which is just, we both reacted to that situation differently.

1:07:52

I reacted to it by trying to remove myself as much as possible, trying to like, not engage with it.

1:07:59

And Cheyenne was a very sensitive kid.

1:08:01

She has ADHD. So she had rejection sensitive dysphoria.

1:08:04

I think she had a lot of like ADHD, sensory issues.

1:08:09

She and him are now like closer.

1:08:11

But I think like when we were kids, she and my dad did not get along.

1:08:16

She hated him. And I responded by trying to be his best friend.

1:08:21

Oh, interesting. My sister was like getaway, like, you know, like rightfully so.

1:08:25

He was like bothering her and she would be like, get away from me and stuff.

1:08:28

And then my response was to be like, I'll go with dad, I'll go with dad in his car.

1:08:34

I'll go with dad to the amusement park. I'll go with dad to golf, you know?

1:08:37

Like, and, and it's just your different kids react different ways.

1:08:41

But that split her and I, apart for awhile, that makes sense.

1:08:45

She was very much mommy's girl.

1:08:46

And like the parents, they played into it.

1:08:50

Like I remember when me and my dad, whenever we would be in the car by ourselves and like my mom and my sister would get out to like do something.

1:08:56

My dad would go now's our chance.

1:08:58

Which like the implication was like, I like you and I don't like them.

1:09:03

Wow. And I took that as a huge compliment.

1:09:05

And every time he did it, I was like, hi.

1:09:08

Yeah. I'm the good one. Crazy again.

1:09:10

I want to say the man is sober.

1:09:13

Now he is in recovery.

1:09:14

He is a different person.

1:09:16

These are crimes from when he was an addict, but that's an interesting way to drive a wedge between siblings.

1:09:22

Yeah. I mean, I always was, you know, closer with my parents growing up and now I live across the country and my sister lives five minutes from them.

1:09:30

So it's like, you just don't know what's going to happen.

1:09:34

And they hang out all the time. They see each other all the time and I'm just like constantly feeling left out in this way.

1:09:40

Right. They, you know, when growing up she felt left out.

1:09:43

I'm kind of the opposite because my appearance will just like pop up on my sisters and I'm happy not to be there because I know they'll just stop by without saying anything or it drives my sisters like bonkers because of no, Absolutely

1:09:59

no way. Yeah. Yeah. John was making fun of me the other day because I like called my, I called my parents all the time.

1:10:05

It's like, they were like kind of too busy to talk to me.

1:10:08

And he was like, you're the only person who's like constantly trying to talk to their parents.

1:10:11

And they're too busy for you. Me

1:10:16

and my sister have deferred now in my closeness to my aunt.

1:10:20

Like I call, I talked to my aunt all the time.

1:10:22

I talked to Michelle constantly and Cheyenne doesn't have that relationship.

1:10:26

And she didn't even really know she came to the house and I was like on the phone with Michelle and Cheyenne was like, oh, I didn't even realize that you guys were like growing your, your friendship and your relationship.

1:10:37

My sister does talk to my parents on the phone all the time and I do not.

1:10:42

And let me also say that her doing that highlights that I don't and now, and I think it's Narcan on me.

1:10:50

I mean, yeah, it's hard. It's hard to change dynamics that have been, that have been set since childhood.

1:10:55

And I know, I think one of the things that like my sister was saying is like, I still am very conscious of that.

1:11:03

She is my older sister in this way that like, I don't think she's so conscious.

1:11:06

And I'm her younger sister. If that makes sense, you want her approval?

1:11:10

Oh my God. So much all care about is, is that like, if she calls me or pays attention to me?

1:11:17

Oh, I think Cheyenne has that too.

1:11:20

Yeah. And Jocelyn was sake, you know, with her two girls, like she sees it in her youngest daughter that our youngest daughter's like life revolves around her older daughter, you know?

1:11:28

And like, I think now it's kind of giving her a new perspective on like why I was always so obsessed with her.

1:11:35

Well, when we were younger, no, like now Cheyenne, I think looks for my approval.

1:11:38

But when we were younger, she was, she had no time for me.

1:11:41

She didn't care about me at all, but I didn't really care about her either.

1:11:45

I mean, ebbs and flows. Yeah.

1:11:48

And then new brothers, great new brothers showed up in 2017.

1:11:51

I was in San Diego.

1:11:53

We have an episode with, we actually have an episode with him and an episode with Michelle, if you'd like to go through the JBU back catalog.

1:11:59

But yet, like I have a sibling that I don't talk to.

1:12:02

You know, I have a S I have a new sibling that I'm close with and I've, but Cheyenne is much closer with Jason.

1:12:09

Jason, Cheyenne talks to Jason all the time.

1:12:11

Cheyenne is super close to Jason. Chan's talking to everybody all the time.

1:12:17

You know, as we get older, you know, there's always one in the family that like is up on the family gossip and knows everything.

1:12:22

And is Cheyenne snap person, like Cheyenne knows what's the gossip.

1:12:25

Cheyenne knows who sick. Cheyenne knows what?

1:12:28

Who did what? When, like, she's, she's up on that stuff.

1:12:31

Like, she's going to, I feel like when my parents can't take care of themselves anymore, it's going to be Cheyenne.

1:12:37

Melissa, do you feel like with like a three sister thing?

1:12:40

Is it like two against one ever?

1:12:43

No. Melanie is always the peacemaker.

1:12:44

Always, always even like, I I'll share this with you guys for even like earlier today.

1:12:52

Well, yesterday, me and Megan, hadn't been talking in since I left Arkansas a couple of weeks ago.

1:12:57

And except for like in a group chat where we're not talking directly to each other.

1:13:02

So yesterday she accidentally FaceTimed me.

1:13:05

Cause Melanie, Melissa looks the same, whatever.

1:13:07

And then I didn't answer because she, it only rang a couple of times.

1:13:10

And then she did it again today while we were recording and I sent a message and I said, in our sister chat, just submit you subconsciously want to see my face.

1:13:20

And then, and then Melanie said, maybe it's time to mend old wounds.

1:13:26

And Megan said, I keep doing it on accident.

1:13:27

Millie said ah-ha. And I just said, subconscious.

1:13:32

Yeah, it's good to have a third one there to sort of, you know, and it's also funny.

1:13:37

Cause even when you're mad, you're joking.

1:13:39

Even when you're mad at each other, Cheyenne was mad at me the other day.

1:13:42

Oh man. She was really pissed at me and she's gotten really good at the novel length text message, just like fucking the Hobbit and the first Lord of the rings in terms of how long her angry song.

1:13:57

I can't imagine ever feeling comfortable to tell my sister.

1:14:00

I was mad at her. Really? Yeah.

1:14:03

Let me tell you, she's mad at me all the time.

1:14:05

Fucking it's fine.

1:14:08

You know, I think I financially cover for a, of people who are angry at me.

1:14:12

And I would just like to say that I think money should solve that.

1:14:17

What do we rate this episode? I rate it Four

1:14:20

out of five, little sunshine shops and then to make up for it, six out of five, it's a scuba.

1:14:27

What was it? Some protected suit.com.

1:14:32

I raped this 2012.

1:14:33

Just laughing out loud.

1:14:35

Oh, I love that.

1:14:38

And I'll go with 13 out of 11 shaved heads.

1:14:42

We'll see if it happens.

1:14:44

Now that you've said it on, on, on the record, you got to do it.

1:14:49

I think you look really cool. Thank You.

1:14:52

I did get contacts. So moving on Forward,

1:14:54

we'll get you. I

1:14:57

hate it. I, they got stuck in my eye.

1:14:59

I'll tell you quickly. They got quote unquote stuck in my eye when I was trying to take them out one time and I was hysterical and mal was trying to help me.

1:15:06

And then I was like that wasn't so bad. I was like, I, my nerves are frayed.

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Anyway. God bless them for being with me.

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Thank you for being our guest Just

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between us is a forever talk production hosted by me.

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Alison Raskin and me Gaby Dunn produced by Melissa, Not

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Done. Okay. Welcome to forever dog. You can listen to this podcast ad free on forever dog. Plus by signing [email protected] slash plus, and make sure to follow us on social@foreverdogteamandcheckoutallofourpodcastsatforeverdogpodcasts.com. Thank you for your support and enjoy the show. I'm Allison Baskin. I'm a writer, mental health advocate, and I have slightly blonde hair. Now I am Gabby, Don ever writer by fond bisexual icon weekend. I own a bald Chihuahua. He's not bald balding balding. Oh yeah, you got your a balyage. I did. You can tell on the zoom, but I'm pretty thrilling for all now. No, it looks great. How long did it take? It only took maybe like three and a half hours. God it's so it's such a thing to dire. I know, but I feel like this is like a gateway hair color for me where I'm like, Ooh, I like this light. Cause I was like very worried. I wouldn't be able to pull off lighter at all, but now I feel like it actually brings out my eyes more. And so now I'm like, cause she left a lot of like my natural hair color. Yeah. And now I'm like, Ooh, what would it look like if I just did like everything this color? Oh wow. That's so wild. Are you going to be a blonde? Maybe I'll be like a blonde. I don't know. Maybe be a blonde. Why not? You've never done it. And then you can always go back. Who cares? I did it in college and it looked horrible. Okay. But everybody looked bad in college, but it was also, I think it was just like orange. It wasn't like a good tone, but she said that my hair lifts really well. So that's cool. Do straight up blonde. Why not? But do you like it? You didn't say anything. Your hair is in a pony tail. Yes. I like it. Your hair was up in a ponytail. So I wasn't sure if you like wanted a compliment on it or not. I always want a compliment. Oh, it looks great. But if you went full blonde, I mean, who knows? That would disrupt the whole dynamic of this odd couple situation. Well, you got bang. So I feel like it's only fair now to now go blonde my hair off. I feel bad. Cause you were like, I'm going to do this whole like new thing or whatever. And then I just like shaved my, I also was like, ah, exactly. This is, this feels right. I might actually take the rest off. I might shave it fully. Oh, do a full, shave a buzz cut. I might like actually buzz all of my hair off. Would you color the buzzer or you keep it your natural? What color? Like blondish. Like why not? I'm already, I'm so close. I just have bangs right now and, and why not? And you want it? There's like a Tik TOK audio. That's like shave your head. You then you can get to tell people that you've shaved your head. You know what I mean? You get to live a life where you, you were like, I had a shaved head for awhile. It's a look. It's a, it's a statement. It's a look. It's a thing. I actually, I just met up with Francesca Ramsey. Oh yeah. She has a shaved head. Right. She has a shaved Head and I was like asking her. I was like, like, has it been hard? She's queer. But she's like still dating men too. And she was like, as like, has it been hard? Like are men like put off by you having shaved head? And she was like, I have never been hit on by more straight men in my life then. Yeah. And I was like fascinating. Okay. She also is objectively, just incredibly beautiful. Like you were stunning. Like I was worried about looking still, even though I'm like having my gender stuff, I'm like, but the male gaze, but she was like, no men were hitting on me with a shaved head. So, but you should go full blonde. Wow. Maybe I will do it. Okay. Well I feel like I gotta like, wait this out. It's also funny because like literally no one in real life has complimented me about it. Yeah. Cause I like taught my two classes. I like went to school and like nobody, you know what? I haven't seen any of my friends in real life. Right. So Melissa, I'm seeing you in real life tomorrow and I expect a lot of compliment And she's shaking her head. No, but you guys have a similar thing going on. You both have blonde sort of weaved into your dark hair so that Yeah. Where are you really giving it to you both ways, you know? Oh God. Well this is just between us. The variety show filled with heartfelt advice, Ridiculous games and Brutal honesty. We have got a great show for you guys today, our guests. I mean, how do you even describe them? Internet royalty, Jeanette royalty, Connor Franta. Who's going to be answering some tough questions about profiting off your life, using yourself as a business, his new book, house buyers. I mean just generally what a cutie Pie. I know. So delightful, Delightful interview and a Rousing rousing Gable. Hypothetical's you're Gonna want to buckle up for hypothetical And later we'll be talking all about sibling dynamics. Can't wait. But first we have to answer a listener's question and you know what that anonymous. Singapore. I also want to say huge trigger warning for this. This question is very much about like sexual assault. So just huge, huge trigger warning. Yes. And the author identifies as she her. Yes. So Hey Alison and Gabby, I've been single for almost two years now. And I thought that it's about time. I went back on the dating scene because I do miss going on dates and dressing up. However, I had a bad experience with a friends with benefits before where they filmed me without my consent. I already reported it to the police and was even sharing it to his friends. I had no idea he was capable of that. As he always acted friendly, I was truly appalled and erase myself from Tinder and other dating apps. But more than that, I was shocked that none of his friends said anything and was even cheering him on the texts that I saw really took a toll on me. I'm already a very shy person, but this made me even more wary of guys and even afraid to talk to most of them now, because even if they're super friendly, I never know what they're actually thinking with. COVID I hardly get to meet new people because everything is online and the restrictions here are quite tight. So my most viable option right now would be dating apps. I genuinely thought I was over the whole situation until I thought of the possibility that people I meet might have seen me in a compromising position. Even when I'm outside and people look at me, my friends and family would jokingly say, Hey, they're looking at you. They probably think you're pretty. When in reality, I'm just panicking inside thinking. They recognize me from a video and I avoid all eye contact. I'm so afraid of meeting new people because of this because they could either recognize me, not just potential partners, but new friends, or they could pull off the same stunt that friends with benefits did, but acting nice and friendly while they're talking behind my back and talking and sharing videos of me without my consent. I know that not all guys are the same, but the fact that it's possible really scares me. How do I get over this fear that by putting myself out there again, I might meet people who are friends with my ex friend with benefits and probably saw me in a video or heard rumors about me. I've talked to friends about this before, and I know that moving forward, I can always open up to my partner about this trauma and work it out. But I just can't get over the initial step of dating again. What are your thoughts on this much love from a fan in Singapore That is incredibly fucked up. If you know someone, or if you are friends with someone who is two is sharing videos like this, this person from Singapore, talking about how the friends didn't say anything or didn't tell this person that what they were doing was both illegal, immoral, fucked up, horrible rapey, terrible. You are a bad person. Like you need to blow that shit up. One, two. I am so sorry. This happened to you. This is like the most not okay. I think obviously you're putting a lot of pressure on yourself to be over it. And I really don't think you have to be. I think that the paranoia might be misplaced, but I also, in terms of like people recognizing you, but I completely understand like why this would be incredibly traumatizing and why even after two years, you, you might not be ready to put yourself out there. I hope you're in therapy. I hope you, you have a therapist that you can talk to is I know you talking about opening up to your partner about trauma and working out, but like, I really hope there's a professional or someone that you are speaking to about this to get. This is just like the worst. Like I want to validate for you that this is like the worst. Yeah. I mean, I think like culturally, I don't know how therapy is, is viewed in Singapore and I don't know how readily available it is, but I know that a really popular book on trauma is called the body, keeps the score. And so I would recommend maybe just do it, you know, if therapy isn't, isn't an option doing some bibliotherapy on, on trauma. And just like, you know, because one of the things that about trauma is like, there's a lot of physiological responses, right? So it's not just in your mind, your body is also reacting to things. And I think that like kind of the more knowledge that you can have about trauma responses, you know, the more you can understand what you're going through. I think just really piggybacking off of what Gabby was saying in that, like the fact that like you have all of these fears is completely normal. I think you have to go at your own pace, but I also think it's really admirable that you gotten to a place where you want to try again. I think you just need to do so in a gentle way. And with communication, I think it can be hard in the dating world to know when to bring up this kind of stuff with a partner. But I think that my suggestion would be to not share this with somebody until you feel relatively comfortable and safe with them. And then also to not have a sexual relationship with anybody that you're dating until you've already talked about this, I feel like this is something that you will want to talk to somebody about before gauging and unlike anything other than kissing, just to feel safe just for them to know your backstory. And I would under be totally understandable if you want to take things slow physically for them to understand that, that the reasoning behind this, I really feel like this is one of those things that it's great that you're talking to your friends about. Because I think that even though you did absolutely nothing wrong at all, these kinds of situations can lead someone to feel shame. And a lot of times being able to talk about it more can sort of like help you work through that shame. Because again, the thing is, is like consensual sex is a normal act. Like what what's not normal is what he is like complete invasion of your privacy and all of that. I just mean like, in terms of like this fear of people having seen the video or having, you know, I think that maybe working through some stuff about your feelings, about being seen as a sexual being and kind of coming to terms with like, that's not an inherently bad thing or an inherently dirty thing. And like obviously the invasion of privacy was yeah. Also keeping that in mind, like, okay, so let's say somebody did see this. If they were to judge me based off of that, is that someone I would even want in my life, right. Someone saw it and didn't know the backstory and they were judging you. That's also not someone that you would want in your life. Exactly. I want to also recommend there's a YouTuber named Chrissy chambers. She's part of a couple Bria and Chrissy, Chrissy went through something entirely similar. She had a X or a guy record her without her consent and she took the case to court and she won. And so you should watch Chrissy's videos about this. If it's not triggering for you, it might be really, really helpful. If you look up Bria and Chrissy, they have a lot of videos about revenge porn and a lot of work that they've done on revenge porn. Yeah. That's a, that's an interesting thing of like, what is triggering it? What is helpful? You know? Cause like sometimes seeing that like your experience has been experienced by a bunch of other people and people that you look up to and are, you know, admire and like that they went through this, you know, and that it hasn't ruined their lives and they have been able to maintain relationships since then. Like I think like depending on where you are in your healing, that can really be encouraging and helpful to. Yeah. And also I want to take apart the word revenge porn, which I think has been used to sort of like couch, what happens, which is this the sexual assault, like it's just purely sexual assault call you. Revenge porn makes it seem like it has any place next to porn as anything. And it doesn't, it's truly like a sexual assault situation. I completely understand why it would make you wary of guys, especially because this one, like you didn't see any red flags with like that. He was just like a nice person. Can I speak to men for a second? Why? I guess my question is why? Like what, what is the, what is the reason there, there isn't one, if you're watching this and you're hearing this and you go, well, I would never do that. Talk to your friends, hold your buddies accountable. What are they up to? What are they doing? How did they talk about women? Stand up to them, correct them. If you see your friend cat called, tell them to cut it out. If you see your friend, like sharing pictures of a girlfriend or talking about a girlfriend in a disrespectful way, tell them to stop. Like that's on, you're in that circle. She didn't know, but you fucking did. And that's on you. You know? So I think that the way that people receive information is very telling about them, right? So like, let's say you do meet somebody, you do like them and you get to a point where you share them with them. What happened, how they react to the information you're giving them will hopefully be revealing. Right? So if the reaction is like, oh, that's not that big of a deal. That's not a safe person. Do not, you know, like, like you want to make sure that like, when you share this with somebody that they understand the significance of it, they understand the trauma that came along with it. They understand that you're still in your healing process. And so I think that like, it can feel really scary that like, who can I trust? Like, and ultimately, obviously we don't know because people surprise us all the time, but there is some, some guidelines. And I think that how the person handles the information when you give it to them is going to tell you a lot. And so really make sure that that person is on your level with when you share it and like that they get it, that they're respectful that maybe, you know, the first few times that you are intimate with them, it's in your space, you know, where like you, you're controlling the environment, you take their phone from them. And like, you know, like you might need to do, you might, you know, and like you want a partner that would offer you their phone. Do you know what I mean? Like that we'll understand that, that we'll be looking out for you looking out for ways to make you more comfortable to make you feel safe after what you've been through versus somebody who either maybe he's like, oh no, sorry. And then like never brings it up again or never, you know, like minimize, minimizes, minimizes it. This is going to be an ongoing conversation with whoever you date next. And they have to be okay with that. And they should also welcome it and potentially initiate those conversations. Yeah. Fucking what is wrong with people, dude? I know. I'm just also just so proud of you. I'm so proud of you that your wrote this email, that you're trying, that you're, you know, that like you feel so much sadness and discomfort all the time and you're still pushing through it. Like it's amazing. And I, we are sending you so much love and keep us up. You're a champion. You seem very self-aware, you're doing great. If you want to submit your international question, send it to just between us [email protected]. That's just between us P O [email protected]. Up next, we have an amazing interview with our highly steam guests, Connor Franta. So stay tuned. You might know emigre and clarify valid from their old podcast here to make friends They're back with a brand new show, love to see it. And obsessive really detailed recap podcasts about the bachelor franchise and other pop culture that makes them laugh, cry, and curse the patriarchy. Mm. Claire can't live with these shows or without them, but they can break down every juicy moment and unpack all the weird messages. Reality TV sends us about love, sex, and dating. And, And this fall there'll be watching along and covering season 18 of the bachelorette with Michelle. Yet You can listen to and follow love to see it right now on Stitcher, apple podcast, Pandora, or wherever you get your podcasts. Love to see it, To hear it for me this type of year usually means getting back into a busier schedule. You know, I love food, but when I am swamped thinking about what's for lunch, let alone actually finding time to grocery shop is almost impossible. Thanks to daily harvest. My freezer is always stocked with delicious options that are ready in minutes. Daily harvest delivers delicious harvest fulls, flatbreads smoothies, and more all built on organic fruits and vegetables, right to your door. 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It's really the whole package Enjoy this time of year. Even more like I do with daily harvest, go to daily harvest.com and enter code just between us to get up to $40 off your first box That's code just between us for up to $40 off your first [email protected]. Welcome back to just between us it's time for the juiciest, most scandalous controversial segment. No, to all of podcasting Tough questions. This week on the show, we have Connor Franta who is an internet superstar, prolific creative entrepreneur, New York times bestselling author mastermind behind his YouTube channel, which has reached over a billion streams in the past decade. And his new book is called house Hello? Oh my goodness. That intro you did so well. That was a lot session. No, No. So I, I read house fires. That is a very raw book. So how do you decide what you're going to put in about your personal life? I think it just comes naturally because this is my third book. So the way that I've written is that whatever I'm feeling within that moment, when I set myself up to write, I write about it. It's never like a, okay, today. I'm going to sit down and write about trauma case Z. It's more of like, this is, what's been on my mind today. This is what I'm in the Headspace for. And I just go for it. And then at the very end of it, if I found that what I wrote was a true depiction of that moment and that feeling in my experience to it, then why not put it in the book? Were you ever like, oh man, this is going to be too much Often I even have doubts now. And this is how I felt with the last one too, coming up. But that's, I think the reason why people liked it, frankly, is they, you know, it's, I think it pushes the boundaries a little bit. And it's something that people haven't read before, or, you know, people aren't used to people being so honest. So I say just like, what's there to lose with being myself and telling my story. What's The most worrisome part to you about this one? It's, there's a lot of it. I think to play devil's advocate to, I do have the fear that sometimes oversharing is more of me participating in the internet reward system for oversharing, you know, a video that you make that says I had a bad day is going to get twice the clicks as I had a good day. And sometimes I think being aware of that is a difficult line to walk because it's like, okay, am I being authentic and doing what I want? Or am I playing a game subliminally, which I'm sure you both know all about. Definitely. And the interesting thing with a book process versus posting, you know, on YouTube or on social media is by the time the book comes out, you're pretty removed from the time when you wrote the first draft. So what has that been like for you? Like, you feel like a different person than when you started writing the book, do you, does that make you feel like you need to like keep changing it throughout the editing process? Most definitely. And it's something you don't understand. I think until you've gone through a process, like it even just rereading the final draft, I'm like, oh, I really wish I could have added this. Or now that I have an extra year since I've written this or an extra two years, in some cases, it's like, oh, I have a whole new take on this. It doesn't mean this is inauthentic, but it means I could have added more to the story in a way. So I think you just need to release that control and let it be what it is. Nothing will ever be perfect. Nothing is ever going to be an exact well-rounded story. There's always something that you can add to it. Essentially. This book also has a lot of stuff about dating where you tubers we're part of a similar like era of that stuff. I've had things where people have connected the dots to who I'm dating, things like that, blah, blah, blah. So like, how do you judge, like, what do I talk about? What do I not talk about in terms of other people? Let's say, like, even the, the story that you told about sexual harassment, like how do you cover your bases or do you not care? You're like, you know what? You did this, so deal with the consequences, dude. Yeah. I think it's different for each, you know, scenario I know for, for dating and for bringing, I mean, just in general, bringing other people into it. I mean, if you notice, I don't, I don't really do collaborations anymore. My Instagram rarely features anyone, but myself. I've gotten to a place where I know that I'm accepting of the burden of putting yourself out there and putting your story out there. But I don't think sometimes other people are aware of it. So I just think it's better to keep it just to myself. I don't put my family and much, I don't put relationships in much. You know, you may be able to figure out if I'm in one or if I'm not in one, I may allude to being in love or not, but I'm never like a relationship channel, never a relationship account. So, I mean, I guess the same goes for any story that I depict in the book. A lot of it has people that I've had experiences with, but it's at the end of the day, never really about them. It's more about how it affected me. So I think I can tell the story without giving away their identity and still do it justice. Yeah. We're Touching on this, but you know, I think one of the things we really wanted to talk to you about it is like when you make your money off of your life and off of your personal experience and what is that like for you? You know, like I know for us, it's, it's been true. Oh, I was talking about this on a different podcast, but it's, it's really interesting to be a veteran in this medium because we've seen through the highs and the lows in the beginning. I didn't even know you can make money on YouTube on the internet. I mean like a year ago, most people didn't even know it's still the amount of times I go home and someone's like, you make money on the internet. How do you do that? And I'm like, it's 20, 21. Ma'am welcome. But it's like a complex thing where if you identify as an artist or if you identify as someone who's in the arts, you never really want to rely on money to force you to be creative. And yet here we are in an industry where you have to do that. The older you get, the more relaxed you want to be, the more established you want to be. You do need to make money and you need to figure out ways how to do it. So it's a complex system. I know for me, I think I've been wise with larger deals that I've gotten over the past decade, where that I can pass on a lot of the more frequent, smaller ones. So although it made look like I don't do as many like high profile deals, I've done enough where it's going to keep guiding me to the next one in a way, if that makes sense, versus like taking tons of small ones, I take a bunch of big ones. You mean for branded deals, Specifically branded deals, partnerships, opportunities, really kind of, any of it, remember vessel? I don't remember vessel. You don't remember Vessel vessel was the YouTube competitor, like six years ago that came out and they had like tons of money and they were offering people tons of money. And it was either like, are you going to go to it or are you going to not? I went to it and I'm still here. Oh my God, this is giving me quippy vibes. Ah, I would have accepted that Quimbee money. Can they bring it back? Yeah. I'm like, give me the money. Do you have the money? Are you paying me out now that my show's not on what's going on? It's like YouTube or boxing. It's like, I want that paycheck ahead of time please. Jake Paul, tell us Here. I mean, I think everyone on the internet knows that I could easily be Jake Paul in a fight. Like clearly I am stronger. Clearly I am more masculine because that matters. And I just really think he's intimidated by me. So it's a shame that he won't fight me. What are the things that's been really interesting about your career is that you, you haven't limited it to just online, like you have done like various business ventures. What drove you to do that? Do you feel like that's your main passion and the online stuff is what allows you to do that? Is it more just like a side thing? Like how do you approach all of that? I think it was kind of a, you know, a nice side effect of what happened. I never started. I mean, again, frankly, I never started making YouTube videos to make any money. It wasn't even an option. I remember when I got opted into the partner program, because that was a thing and I was so excited. I'm like, wait a minute, you can make money off this. I've been doing it for three years and making nothing Like a teenager. Right. I was 17 when I first started and I was an avid YouTube viewer from eighth grade on. So it's been a part of my entire teenage years, my entire young adult life. So I've again, I've seen it through the beginning stages. Like my first VidCon I went to, I was a fan, my second one, I was one of the top creators. Like I know it was such like a strange thing to know both sides of it. I feel like I can always put myself in a lot of different people's shoes because I've been able to see a lot of the doors and walk through. Was it like, okay, now that I have these videos and now that I've like shared myself, I can start these other businesses. Yeah. And that was, I mean, I was in college for two years and I was studying entrepreneurship and just business, vaguely business and art. And I think that it was a natural passion of mine to find a way to be creative and create a business around it. I dropped out. So frankly, mama doesn't have the credentials to do so, but she tried. So I think it was just the natural thing that I always heard, you know, diversify, diversify, your funds, diversify your business, have multiple streams of income, have multiple lanes to lean into when you're in this industry, in case one falls out beneath you, you have another to go to and I've always found that that's a way that I stay creative in general. If I, if I don't want to focus on the music, I go over to the YouTube videos. I don't wanna focus on the YouTube videos. I go over to photography and I keep jumping between them. And they all kind of inform the other as well. An idea from Milan will spark an idea and the other You want to do non-fiction writing or like essay writing when me and Alison first started. And we were talking about book deals with people, Alison sort of pushed for us to do fiction because I think a lot of the people we met with wanted us to do a YouTuber book, not necessarily essays that are substantial like yours, but do you know? You know what I mean? When I'm talking about like an urban Outfitters table, like YouTube or book and Alison in particular pushed back on that, I did, I have no memory of you. Did. You were like, we're not, you were like, we're not doing that. Like we are writing novels. Like we are not doing that. I mean, it's that kind of the thing, like, did you have to go like, no, I want to write these essays or, or is it like, oh, these essays are what we'll do well, cause people want to know about me. It's this weird thing. I, yeah, I think initially there wasn't too much thought in it because I was kind of one of the experiments of the YouTube or book experience in the beginning where it was like, oh, the book industry would like to make YouTube or books. And I got offered a deal before I even knew that I necessarily wanted to participate in it. And then I thought, you know, I have always been good at writing essays. I have always enjoyed writing. I found it very therapeutic, so let's give it a go. And the first time around, it was very surface level. It was very backstory, you know, truly an authentic memoir, even though I was 21 years old at the time, but Hey, that's like a fourth to a third of a normal life. So I'm like, you know what, there's a story to tell. But after that I realized that I really did enjoy it. And for the second one I wanted to fully lean in. I wanted to fully develop it. And that's what led me to the third. But to answer your question, I do think about fiction often after I've told my story and I do enjoy the medium, you know, what else is there? I'm not going to keep trying to find more stories to tell. I think it's, As you get older, there'll be more, there's tons of people that do that True. But I think in the meantime, it's like, well, let's lean on fiction. It's kind of like, I mean, not to compare myself to Taylor swift, but her most recent album, a lot of it was fictional. And she said, I'm just kind of sick of writing about my own life, but I know that I can write from fiction. So I kind of leaned into that. Cause some of the poetry in both the last and the current book is, you know, fictionalized, there's a little bit of like a fantastical element added into it that it's not 100% exactly what happened. It's a little bit more and I think that's fun. I don't think everything has to be reality for it to be enjoyable. And you're profiting off your life. I mean, do you feel like, okay, I got to go out and do stuff that I can write about. I can make videos about If there was a camera in my house, you know, that would be so wrong or there's a camera by, but if there was like a, like a nest camera up in the corner, it's just, I'm just doing the same thing everyday and like a little hamster on a wheel. I think the longer I've been in this lane, in this medium, the more I just, you know, I don't think about it too hard. I'm not trying to be something I'm not, I don't know how people do it. I listened to some podcasts and every week it's like new, big story. It's like we were, we saw someone doing a drug deal and there was a gun polled. Oh The story times. But Like real ones where I actually know it's to a certain extent authentic, but I'm like, I don't know. I went to CVS and there was someone like mumbling to themselves. It's kind of weird, but there's not a lot. I have insight, but I don't have a lot of strange experiences that happened to me. Yeah. I mean, that's a big part of the, you know, the double-edged sword of like minding your own life is I feel that fear of like, but nothing's happening or like, oh, I only have things to write about when like I'm experiencing trauma and I don't want to be constantly experiencing trauma. No, I have, I have had a lot of people ask me about they're like, so you write a lot about the bad times. And I'm like, I don't know. Those are the times that are the most emotional and the most memorable. So I just inherently feel like I do need to figure my way out through those and write about them and decipher the meaning through them. I mean, it's the same reason why sad love songs always get played on the radio. It's because they're the most monumental moments in some people's lives and they can write about them endlessly. Yeah. We have a negativity bias as humans. We just like our, our minds pay more attention to negative things for sure. Which I think was originally for survival and is now just a nightmare, you know? But I think it's really interesting what you're talking about in terms of like working through things through your writing. I was talking to a therapist about my next book idea and she was sort of like, are you in a place to sort of like write about that? You know? And I was like, actually for me, a lot of times writing about this stuff, even though I know it will be for public consumption is sort of the same as like when people journal, like it like kind of like helps me work through it personally. Do you feel that way with your stuff? Oh, definitely. I mean, it helps me work through it, but I also just think like, what else is there to life than being honest and being true to yourself. And what's the worst that could happen is you being honest and true and someone's going to use it against you in some way. That sounds like they're the bad person. Not you're the bad person for sharing it. And with anything, like, I connect more with people through the harder parts of my life or have empathy for other people through their most difficult, vulnerable moments. So I just think that there's nothing but a good thing there if you're willing to share it. Yeah. I mean, it depends like, you know, I think like sometimes I get frustrated with people going back into the back catalog of YouTube stuff and then thinking that that's me. So then how do you feel about like digging up if you don't like how people go and dig up, like past emotions, what do you think about digging up past mistakes? Depends on if the person's like acknowledged and apologized before. I think sometimes people don't, they search for that, but they don't search for if the person ever acknowledged it. So then they go and they never acknowledged it. And I'm like, let me ask you a question. Did you search for if they've acknowledged it? Did you look for that part? No, of course not because that's not fun. Yeah. It's difficult. Cause then I'm like, at what point is sorry, enough or not enough? Like at what point are we, what's the gradient here? What's the scale someone did X, Y, and Z. Therefore they need three apologies to qualify to be actually sorry. And I do, I do wonder because I also, I mean, I see myself participating in it too where I'm like, I would never support them again. I'm like, wait, why, why would I not do that Orange? It's more complicated. I just did a whole episode of my other show, bad with money, all about this actually. And about the ways that social media benefits from that, right. Especially I see on YouTube, like YouTube feeds itself. So like someone will do something then they'll someone who's a drama channel or like a gossip channel will then be like, oh great. That's material for me to then make another gossip video. This person must be stopped. You know? And then that video feeds more videos. And like that whole like ecosystem of YouTube where it's like Connor Franta said this in 2014, let's let's make him the thumbnail. You know what I Mean? Me? Yeah, no, It's like a toxic cycle, the cycle, or even like, you know, I've seen like you had a video that I saw that I really liked where it was. You like looking back at your straight videos, Do you think those were like offensive or it was just like silly that you, you were so insistent? Honestly, I was really surprised that more people didn't find them offensive because not like trying to counsel myself, but I don't, I don't like that. I participated in those trends. Can you explain what the videos were? So some of the videos that I made at the time, and again, there, there are levels to this. There are layers. So this isn't a video I made a year ago. It's a video I made like eight years ago. And there were at the time, again, this is a hard thing for some people to wrap their minds around. So there was a time in YouTube where you could type in a title and no one had made that video there that does not exist anymore. Every video ever has been made. So at the time you could type in things like 10 different pillows designs and no one would have had, have made that video. So at the time as a high school boy, as a fucking idiot, I made videos that were like 10 things guys like about girls and things guys hate about girls. And that is so disgusting. It is not okay. It isn't me participating in the patriarchy. It is me not being an authentic feminist. Granted I was a 20 year old boy. So it makes total sense. But I don't like that at the time. I may have had an influence on younger people, you know, younger women, younger, anybody, anybody, and gave them some sort of invalidation or validation in something that wasn't authentic or true. So me watching these videos, I had the back of my mind thinking, ah, what a canceled me for this? This is cancelable. I can't believe I did this. This is horrible. So it was honestly like beyond the element of me being, you know, straight on camera, quote, unquote, it was more of like, damn, I really participated in a part of society that now as an educated man, I dunno what you want to call me as an educated adult. I guess I would never participate in. I despise, We were like trying to seem straight, which is like a caricature of a straight man. But I wasn't trying, because at the time I honestly thought I was straight, which is the sadder part. You were like, this is what straight men too. I'm a Robot. Well, actually, no. So I was trying to be straight, but also I was like, oh, this is cliquey. This will get views. I was like, I'm a genius. I'm a genius. Do you keep Those videos up? Or do you delete them? Some of them I've put on private only because I just don't want any new person to see that. And then think that there's authenticity there. But I'm also not like going through every video, looking for something to take down because I might not enjoy it. I know I've never done anything like horrible online, but there are things that I wouldn't do in present day that, you know, maybe are worth privateering maybe are not. But I feel like part of what's cool about sharing your life with people is then people getting to see your growth and getting to see that you can change. And so it's sort of like, oh, okay, like they've grown this way. Maybe I can grow that way too. If only the internet was, I was going to say only they were forgiving about, But would they let us include banners on YouTube videos that say, this is not me now, this is not me. I do not agree with this. Every title two inferences. This is not me now Insert ukulele music now. Yeah, there has been some nice stuff where I thought people were going to react that way. And then like when I came out as non binary, like on July 5th and I thought people are going to be annoyed because my fan base is largely bisexual, CIS women. And it ended up a bunch of people were like, no, I've been following your growth. And like I'm non binary now probably a lot of the people that don't feel like a lot of the boys that were like watching your videos being like, yeah. Or like I'm gay, Honestly the most. So first of all, congratulations, that's an amazing next step to say. And second of all, yeah, I, I like most people during the pandemic, I joined tech talk and most of my videos were just like, hi, if you remember this face, that means you're gay now by, and that's just the tech talk like 3 million views. All the comments are like, how did you now Growth that's called growth. What are the things that I find tricky about having so many different streams of income and like doing so many different things is like kind of this like inability to sort of like see past six months from now, like how do you approach your career? Like, do you have like the way like a five-year plan and other careers people do, or do you kind of take it more like month by month, year by year? It's tough. I mean, I'd be lying if I didn't say I'm stressed about money all the time. Like a randomly be like a heat flash of like, do I have enough? Am I doing enough? Should I be doing more? Like it's it's I, it like hits you at random times. Never at the time. You'd think it would. And then I call myself down. But no, I mean, honestly I'm always looking for opportunity. I think the search is the most important part. So I'm always eagerly asking, you know, my management, my agent for opportunities, I'm sending them ideas to work with. I'm sending them a new interests that I have. And I think that that's in, I guess our industry is a major part of it is seeking out the opportunity because a lot of the times it won't come to you. And in terms of planning, honestly, not a whole lot of it. It's like I plan the week ahead and sometimes the month ahead, but it's six months is really hard in terms of like keeping up with YouTube content and trends. And most of the things I do now are very by podcasts that I have. It's like, whatever happened that week, the YouTube video that I do, it could totally change based upon what happened that week as well. So it's kind of hard to really plan out in this industry that we're in The idea of like making content when you're like 50 appealed to you, Freak you out. Traumatizing, absolutely traumatizing. Even as a 29 year old. Sometimes again, I'll be like, ah, what am I doing? But we'll figure it out as we get there. Yeah. My friend Jackie had merged that for her podcast called Nach Butte. And it's just a mug that says over 30 Nisha influencer and I have it on hold it all the time. Like this is me over 30 Nisha influencer. Hello, Very Jenna marbles. Very gentleman leave, just leave I say from my podcast, I know. And I'm also like, but come back, we need you. That was like, I love John. And that was like a stab in the heart. Cause I was like, oh, one of the best ones, like one of the only good one. I mean, not all of us will be gone. You know, won't be on it at some point, but then what will we be doing? That's what's so scary. It depends. It depends if you play the cards, right. Are you investing in NFTs? You got a Bitcoin. I was like with you, I was like, I am investing. And then you said NFTs and I went, Nope. Nope. It's the future. No, yeah, no, I'm I'm the same way. I mean, I think from like, if I'm taking off my comedian hat, it's like, yeah, I'm, I've been really good at paying my taxes. I've been really good at putting my money into future, into my future retirement fund. I've been really good at investing my money in safe bets. And I think I'm fortunate enough to have gotten into this as, you know, a 17, 18 year old and beyond, because if it was before that, I don't know if I would have been at a point in my life where I understood that you, that this is temporary. Oh, you mean when You were 13 Versus 17? I know, I knew plenty of 13 year olds that got into this. I'm like, whoa, I don't envy it. Well, they always forget to pay taxes. It's always like a, some influencer who does 21 goes viral makes a shit ton of money and then is like confused on April 15th. One, Forget as a kind word. I think intentionally ignore. Yeah. That's the biggest, anytime somebody like is like, what, what advice do you have now that I've got this? I'm like put money aside for taxes, please. Please do. I can't believe it sometimes. Or like don't buy the entire fall collection of Gucci. You idiot. Yes, don't do that. I bought Gucci boots and then I thought I was going to be so suave about it. I like showed up to hang out with a group of friends and I was like, not that I was like wearing them normal first thing out of my friend's mouth. Oh, look at you. Oh, well, well, well filming them being like, oh, excuse me. I was like, cut guys. These were, I get it. Like, I was like, you know what? This, this mockery for being nouveau riche makes sense. And I appreciate it. You gotta keep me humble. So I'm Totally, totally. Yeah, no, it's be wise with it. Be smart with it. Obviously you can have fun with your money, but like, you know, it goes quicker than you think And have people around who are, are not gonna like inflate. You be like, you're being a bougie right now. A hundred percent. I think I'm so glad I grew up as a, a Minnesotan. And I'm, I'm really glad that I still have my Midwestern family and friends because they keep me very humble and very grounded. There's no way I could wear Gucci around them. They would look at it and be like, oh, are those from target? They'd have no idea. There's no point. Why would I do it? I guess that's like maybe my final question before we move on to hypothetical's is, you know, you're very successful. You've built this amazing career, but do people outside of the internet take it seriously. It depends upon the person. I do go to many, a Thanksgiving or many at Christmas and unnamed aunts or uncles just to get on my last fucking nerve. They got on my absolute last nerve. Some of them have still just like, are you still doing that thing? And he's still doing that thing breeder and you still doing that thing. Like, Are you still doing that thing? Be working in accountants? Yeah. Which again, like no shame to that, unless you shame me for it. That machine be right back. So yeah. Some, some people don't get it. And frankly, at this point within it, I just feel sorry for them because it's a universally understood real career path to do truly anything on the internet books. Yes. And I think that opportunities like writing books and having them be New York times bestsellers, that is what becomes real to a lot of people who don't understand it. It's like, oh, I don't get your YouTube videos, but you spent 16 weeks on the New York times bestselling list work. You can't deny that. That's like, I can't deny it. That's cool. That's amazing. Can't believe it. You know, those are old school markers of success and people are having a harder time adapting, newer markers of success. Definitely. What would you Like to play a game show please? Okay. And this game show hypotheticals. You have your mic contestants. I mean, to give you a series of hypothetical situations, you can ask any clarifying questions you might have. And then I, you tell me what you would do. And then I just decide who's answer. I like more. Oh, okay. Yay. It's so fair. It's such a strict fair game, you know? Okay. So our first game is America's favorite game show. Would you stay with this cheater? You find out that your partner of 27 years left their number on a restaurant receipt, just to see if the cute waiter would call them. You find out when you answer your partner's phone and it's the waiter. When did you stay with this aspiring cheater? 27 years. I don't like that element because this makes it difficult. Exactly. Did the person who called identify themselves as hi, it's me Ian. The waiter from it was at first time calling. Yeah. This. So they said, aye, Hey, it's the waiter from little sunshine shop. That's the name of the restaurant? It was a very silver like Vegan restaurant. I wasn't at the dinner where they did that. No. And was, is the waiter cute? Yeah, but your partner assures you. They weren't actually going to do anything. They just wanted to see if they still had it. And if the waiter would call, My trust is down. I don't believe a word. You're saying, Todd, This is my question. This can't be the first time they've done that. It would be. But also, no, God, this is difficult. Here's the deal. Here's what I would really do. Here's not the funny answer. I would sit them down. I would yell at them. I would scream at them. I'd be angry. I'd be like, what are you doing? You can't do this. You can do this. Maybe when I'm around at the table. And then think it's funny, but not behind my back for all. We been through 27 years, Todd, we have two chihuahuas. Exactly. Why did I pick up their phone? Because they were in the shower and they were like, can you get it? What day of the week was it? What's my job. You're a 50 year old influencer. No, no, Just go to the grave. And What's their job. They own a for-profit library. I don't either, but it doesn't sound profitable. A bookstore And library is a bookstore. No, but this is a different thing because you have to return the book. So you pay for it. You know what I mean? To keep It that's called like renting a DVD. You pay for a monthly subscription to this for-profit library. And then you can rent out as many books as you want, but you have to return them. Isn't this just a library. You don't pay anything at a library. You're Right. I'm still pissed at Todd. Yeah. I think I would leave really Connor. I think again, after screaming, after depicting our chihuahuas and all the time that we've spent together, I would ultimately wait for his response and probably not leave because nothing technically happened. But you better believe we're going to be in therapy the next day therapy immediately because it's that trust? That would traumatize me. Yeah. Well, unfortunately the waiter was your partner soulmate and they ended up going to little sunshine shop every day for a year. As they slowly, slowly fall in love. What about me? You're too busy making YouTube videos, Neglect. I didn't. When you said 50 year old influencer, I know 50 is not old, but then Connor said to the grave and then I had the stupidest vision of a tombstone that said Storytime, I'm dead. It's like an episode of SpongeBob. Our next game is this a date? Your mother really wants you to meet someone because you are new to the big city. They try to set you up on a date with their friend's kid, who is your age. And also single. You refuse your mom then convinces you to meet her friend's kid for coffee as just friends. It wouldn't be a date at all. She promises. Is this still a date? Mm mm. I just keep thinking that like both of us may be in the same head space of like, we don't know each other. So potato Patato here. Like this is what is a date. Really? Yeah. Is her mom lying to her? You know, like her mom's like, no, you're just hanging out as friends. Like both of our moms are like behind the scenes being like, just lied. And like, you could start the date off with like a firm handshake of like lovely to make this business acquaintance. And then it's not a date. They're the most attractive person you've ever seen in your entire life. Oh, then as a date, suddenly A little sunshine shop palace. Does the waiter steal my, my beloved. I was just going to say, and then you sit down and you're your have the memory of your beloved being stolen and then you cry the whole date, the Date, it's a date. No but your ex is there because they're now with dating that waiter. Oh No. Good. You're showing up with the hottest person in existence. Right? Right. So it looks like you've moved on. Well, you would have really moved on. Cause you should stop going to that restaurant. You know, they worked there. I also just pictured like you being like, oh yeah, sorry. I'm here with this person or whatever. And then like that person just yells to your ex and the waiter. Like this is not a day. Look like a fool. It's just friends. Horrible. It's been a really embarrassing week for me. Yeah. If they're wild, they attract it. Why not make it a date? Why not? That's a great philosophy for life. Yeah. Okay. I final game. Are you a terrible parent? Your child seven hates wearing sunblock, but they have to go to a friend's pool party instead of forcing them to wear sunblock. You buy them What Alison what? Instead of forcing them to wear sunblock, you buy them a sun protected suit that covers every part of their body, except for holes in their mouth and eyes. They get made fun of at the party. And one kid runs away screaming in terror For visual reference. I'm thinking of American horror story. Season one, if you know the reference, you know the reference, if you don't, I feel sorry for you Leatherman and that, but there's aisles and a mouth hole. Yeah. No nose hole that looks terrifying that he looks like the Zodiac killer. I don't like to wear sunblock, which I know is a weird, I think the texture is gross. I hate sunblock. I hate it. But I, and my kid sees the suit, puts it on and says, this is good for me to attend this thing. Well, they say, I don't want to wear it. And you say, well, then you have to put on sunblock. And then they pick the suit. Where did you get the suit at? Sun protector, suit.com. Whoa, thriving business buyers today. Do they have different colors or is it always, or is it always black and kinky Black? No, it's not black. It's bright orange. Oh, that's fun. Thank You. Very festive. It's giving me carnival. It's giving It's giving me. Oh my God. No, no. They painted their hair green and the ponytail sticks out. There's a, there's a fourth hole, But category Halloween, their eyes are blackened out. So looks like Jacqueline. No, no. It's actually really, really funny. I'd be like, they are a horrible parent. Don't put your kid in this traumatic situation, but now it's funny, You know, I'm going to say you're a good parent. Ooh. How come let's have fun? I know that's. I mean, that's partially what I'm thinking. Especially you want hooked me on the good parent thing was the fact that you said sunblock or this pumpkin soup and they chose the pumpkin suit. I would have been like, you're a dumb kid. You chose this. I wouldn't be like this kid has an eye for avant-garde fashion. Oh, a lady got, got a lady Gaga, but everybody made fun of them at the party. Yeah. One kid ran away screaming and crying. Well that kid's a pussy ever seen art Trevor. I would give them a pep talk ahead of time. Now, listen, kids are going to make fun of you and you have to punch back. Not, not physically with your words, You met a Stratton to that party, bitch. You better work. All right, neither of you are allowed to be parents. The first time I've been told that You so much for joining us, where can people find all the many Things you do as well as your new book pre-order or buy my new book? Connor Franta books.com. Once it's out. After October 19th, it'll be a target. It will be in Barnes and noble. It'll be on Amazon. It'll be in books, a million everywhere, a baby she's global and the audio book is on audible as well. Everything else is just Connor Franta. I'm lucky. I got Connor France on every social platform. Hit a boy up. Sun protector, suit.com/connor Franta For your chance to get 10% off today, that's sun protector suit.com/connor Franta. Thanks for having me Stick around. After the break, we'll be talking all about sibling dynamics. This podcast is sponsored by better help. Oh man. Well, I've been going through it because it's the fall and that means it's coming up on the holidays. 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Take your free in-depth hair consultation and get 15% off your first order today. Go to pros.com/just between us that's P R O S e.com/just between us for your free in-depth hair consultation and 15% off. Welcome back to just between us. It's X, X, X, X, X, X, X, X, baby, Baby. Boom. Melissa's joining us Every week. I asked Melissa if she wants to join us for topics and one out of eight times, she says, yes, Well you're in for a treat. So you want to start? What's your sibling dynamic. What's happening? I have two sisters. I'm the oldest, my middle sister is 22 months younger than me. You're not quite Irish twins. Yes. Yes. So I always wonder with school years, was she two years behind you in school or one? She's two years behind, but she was born the year after me and then my other sister is six years younger than me. I'm the oldest. And how do you find that? I love it because I am in charge. I was left in charge a lot as a child. I got to be responsible and tell them what to do. So it was great for me. Yeah. I mean, I picked this topic because I actually had my sister on my Patrion talking about sibling dynamics because I got really sick with OCD when I was four. And the story has always sort of been through my point of view, but like, you know, you're nine years old, she's five years older than me. And like suddenly your sibling is like really sick and like that changes your life and like the dynamics of the family. And it was sort of like the first time that we had ever really talked about that. And she was saying a lot of really interesting things about, you know, she has two daughters and just seeing the difference between younger siblings and older siblings and that like for younger siblings, like as the youngest one, like your older siblings matter a lot in a way that I don't know if younger siblings mattered. Like, do you feel Melissa? Like your sisters have like, always looked up to you and like wanted your approval in this way that like maybe is it mutual? Yes. They always looked up to me one of my approval, especially the youngest one. I always like treat her like she's my little baby. She also works for me too. So that's interesting. So shout out to melody. What has it been like to actually be her boss? What, actually it's not that different from when I would boss her around as a kid. Well, I have disagreements about work and it doesn't bleed into our sister stuff. Yeah. But I know that with my middle sister, that would not be the case because she and I are constantly fighting. So Alison's the youngest, Melissa is the oldest I'm middle child, which I think we could have guessed from how much I'm screaming for someone to pay attention to me at all times. My sister's four years younger than me. My oldest brother was 15 years older than me. And then my new brother who we found out about in 2017 is 12 years older than me, I think. Yeah. So basically me and my sister are from my mom and we grew up together like together all the time. And then my oldest brothers from my dad's first wife. So he, he was around when I was growing up from like ages one to seven, he was there and then he left and moved to New York and stuff. And then, so he didn't really have a relationship with my little sister at all because they're 18 years apart. I mean, they never got along. Now me and her are strange from him, but he and I used to get along. Now. They never got along. They had nothing in common. They had nothing to talk about. They had totally different lives. And he always like was just very like misunderstanding of her because Cheyenne, you know, she's an interesting person and we love each other very much. I think there was some misguided parenting in terms of like I was telling Molly yesterday that my mom would like put me and my sister together and be like, you are all, each other has so stop fighting. You are all, each other has. And that was like a big reframe, which I think created codependency that lasts until this day. And I do like Melissa feel like I was Cheyanne's parent. I don't know that I feel the same that Melissa does. I don't think it was a good thing. I never felt like my sister was my parent ever. Yeah. See, I think that's normal Because she just wasn't really interested in me. And it's been really interesting that we like didn't have this relationship at all growing up really. And then like, I don't think she really spoke to me from ages like 11 to 17. Really? Yeah. Cheyenne and I had no relationship when I, she was in high school and I was in college. We were not friends. Me And Melanie fought all the time when we were younger and we didn't become friends until I went to college. Yes. I feel like this thing that like, we don't think about enough with sibling dynamics is that like, they, they will change like, you know, especially with like age differences and like being in different stages. It can like, you can feel like, oh, I will never have this relationship. Like my mom thought we would never have a relationship, but now we do. And Jocelyn was saying, you know, we're just like incredibly different people, but she was like, but we like made the choice to have the relationship. Yeah, definitely. And I hadn't really thought of it that way where like, yeah, like we both just were like, if we were regular people who met, would we be friends? No, but like we're sisters and therefore we're putting in the time and the effort. And I mean, I genuinely loved being around her and love her company, but we are just like incredibly different. And the only reason we would ever be at the same room is because we're Right. Yeah. Me and Cheyenne are very different. I don't know that we would be friends if we just met. Cause I don't know that we would have that much in common, but it is nice to have someone where I can go, like mom's being insane. Right. And then, or like, or like memories of things where you're being kind of Gaslight and they're like, that didn't happen. And then Cheyenne can be like, yes it did. Yeah. Which is great. But we also do have very different memories of events. She has a much closer relationship to my parents that I do. So there is kind of, sometimes it's not as much like me and her versus them as the three of them versus me, which I'm glad I was talking to her about this the other day. I'm like, look, you don't have to have the same relationship to mom and dad that I do. If you have a closer relationship with them, like have that like that, you don't have to like temper that on my behalf, but it is very different. Yeah. And my favorite things I, I learned in one of my family therapy classes was no two siblings had the same parents. Yeah. I agree with that. 100%, you Have totally different relationships with your parents. And it's so weird because you're growing up in the same house. Did you think it would be the same, but it's not no Parent different. How did you see your parents parent different Melissa? Did they get like more lenient as they had more kids? Yes. Swelling up, more lenient with Melanie than they were with me and Megan. But like, even with me and Megan, I got more, even though she's not that much younger than me, I got way more responsibilities than she did. I think because my dad was an addict and alcoholic when we were growing up and Cheyenne got the brunt of that, which is just, we both reacted to that situation differently. I reacted to it by trying to remove myself as much as possible, trying to like, not engage with it. And Cheyenne was a very sensitive kid. She has ADHD. So she had rejection sensitive dysphoria. I think she had a lot of like ADHD, sensory issues. She and him are now like closer. But I think like when we were kids, she and my dad did not get along. She hated him. And I responded by trying to be his best friend. Oh, interesting. My sister was like getaway, like, you know, like rightfully so. He was like bothering her and she would be like, get away from me and stuff. And then my response was to be like, I'll go with dad, I'll go with dad in his car. I'll go with dad to the amusement park. I'll go with dad to golf, you know? Like, and, and it's just your different kids react different ways. But that split her and I, apart for awhile, that makes sense. She was very much mommy's girl. And like the parents, they played into it. Like I remember when me and my dad, whenever we would be in the car by ourselves and like my mom and my sister would get out to like do something. My dad would go now's our chance. Which like the implication was like, I like you and I don't like them. Wow. And I took that as a huge compliment. And every time he did it, I was like, hi. Yeah. I'm the good one. Crazy again. I want to say the man is sober. Now he is in recovery. He is a different person. These are crimes from when he was an addict, but that's an interesting way to drive a wedge between siblings. Yeah. I mean, I always was, you know, closer with my parents growing up and now I live across the country and my sister lives five minutes from them. So it's like, you just don't know what's going to happen. And they hang out all the time. They see each other all the time and I'm just like constantly feeling left out in this way. Right. They, you know, when growing up she felt left out. I'm kind of the opposite because my appearance will just like pop up on my sisters and I'm happy not to be there because I know they'll just stop by without saying anything or it drives my sisters like bonkers because of no, Absolutely no way. Yeah. Yeah. John was making fun of me the other day because I like called my, I called my parents all the time. It's like, they were like kind of too busy to talk to me. And he was like, you're the only person who's like constantly trying to talk to their parents. And they're too busy for you. Me and my sister have deferred now in my closeness to my aunt. Like I call, I talked to my aunt all the time. I talked to Michelle constantly and Cheyenne doesn't have that relationship. And she didn't even really know she came to the house and I was like on the phone with Michelle and Cheyenne was like, oh, I didn't even realize that you guys were like growing your, your friendship and your relationship. My sister does talk to my parents on the phone all the time and I do not. And let me also say that her doing that highlights that I don't and now, and I think it's Narcan on me. I mean, yeah, it's hard. It's hard to change dynamics that have been, that have been set since childhood. And I know, I think one of the things that like my sister was saying is like, I still am very conscious of that. She is my older sister in this way that like, I don't think she's so conscious. And I'm her younger sister. If that makes sense, you want her approval? Oh my God. So much all care about is, is that like, if she calls me or pays attention to me? Oh, I think Cheyenne has that too. Yeah. And Jocelyn was sake, you know, with her two girls, like she sees it in her youngest daughter that our youngest daughter's like life revolves around her older daughter, you know? And like, I think now it's kind of giving her a new perspective on like why I was always so obsessed with her. Well, when we were younger, no, like now Cheyenne, I think looks for my approval. But when we were younger, she was, she had no time for me. She didn't care about me at all, but I didn't really care about her either. I mean, ebbs and flows. Yeah. And then new brothers, great new brothers showed up in 2017. I was in San Diego. We have an episode with, we actually have an episode with him and an episode with Michelle, if you'd like to go through the JBU back catalog. But yet, like I have a sibling that I don't talk to. You know, I have a S I have a new sibling that I'm close with and I've, but Cheyenne is much closer with Jason. Jason, Cheyenne talks to Jason all the time. Cheyenne is super close to Jason. Chan's talking to everybody all the time. You know, as we get older, you know, there's always one in the family that like is up on the family gossip and knows everything. And is Cheyenne snap person, like Cheyenne knows what's the gossip. Cheyenne knows who sick. Cheyenne knows what? Who did what? When, like, she's, she's up on that stuff. Like, she's going to, I feel like when my parents can't take care of themselves anymore, it's going to be Cheyenne. Melissa, do you feel like with like a three sister thing? Is it like two against one ever? No. Melanie is always the peacemaker. Always, always even like, I I'll share this with you guys for even like earlier today. Well, yesterday, me and Megan, hadn't been talking in since I left Arkansas a couple of weeks ago. And except for like in a group chat where we're not talking directly to each other. So yesterday she accidentally FaceTimed me. Cause Melanie, Melissa looks the same, whatever. And then I didn't answer because she, it only rang a couple of times. And then she did it again today while we were recording and I sent a message and I said, in our sister chat, just submit you subconsciously want to see my face. And then, and then Melanie said, maybe it's time to mend old wounds. And Megan said, I keep doing it on accident. Millie said ah-ha. And I just said, subconscious. Yeah, it's good to have a third one there to sort of, you know, and it's also funny. Cause even when you're mad, you're joking. Even when you're mad at each other, Cheyenne was mad at me the other day. Oh man. She was really pissed at me and she's gotten really good at the novel length text message, just like fucking the Hobbit and the first Lord of the rings in terms of how long her angry song. I can't imagine ever feeling comfortable to tell my sister. I was mad at her. Really? Yeah. Let me tell you, she's mad at me all the time. Fucking it's fine. You know, I think I financially cover for a, of people who are angry at me. And I would just like to say that I think money should solve that. What do we rate this episode? I rate it Four out of five, little sunshine shops and then to make up for it, six out of five, it's a scuba. What was it? Some protected suit.com. I raped this 2012. Just laughing out loud. Oh, I love that. And I'll go with 13 out of 11 shaved heads. We'll see if it happens. Now that you've said it on, on, on the record, you got to do it. I think you look really cool. Thank You. I did get contacts. So moving on Forward, we'll get you. I hate it. I, they got stuck in my eye. I'll tell you quickly. They got quote unquote stuck in my eye when I was trying to take them out one time and I was hysterical and mal was trying to help me. And then I was like that wasn't so bad. I was like, I, my nerves are frayed. Anyway. God bless them for being with me. Thank you for being our guest Just between us is a forever talk production hosted by me. Alison Raskin and me Gaby Dunn produced by Melissa, Not edited by Coco Laurens executive produced by Brett Rome, Joe Sileo and Alex Ramsay rented Burns compose our killer theme music To listen to this podcast ad free sign up for forever dog Plus@foreverdockpodcastdotcomslashpluscheckoutvideoclipsofourpodcastsonyoutubeatyoutube.com slash forever doc team or on our YouTube channel. youtube.com/just between us shit. Make sure to follow us on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook at Burdoch team to keep up with all the latest forever dog news. Also at Gabby road at Alison Raskin and at she is not Melissa on Instagram, also patrion.com/emotional support lady and patron.com/gaby. Done. Okay.